Not really naked, but more along the line of "almost" naked, or as naked as they can get. What does the black carapace look like? I can find 0 images of it online and it's killing me not being able to imagine it when reading about marines hanging up their army on a rack and walking around. A friend said they were castrated when being implanted and I recognize the fact they have no sex drive, however, I would have thought more along the lines of them keeping their "parts" and simply having the drive somehow surgically removed, which doesn't seem too far fetched what with the Betchers Gland (wtf) and all of the other crazy implants they are receiving. Two part question, help clear it up for me.
***SIDENOTE: I'd really appreciate pictures of the black carapace if anyone can get a hold of them. As for the castration or whatever, keep those to yourselves
I am pretty sure the black carapace is UNDER the skin, meaning it would not be visible. Except they would probably have hard points where the black carapace and armor meet, that would be visible.
And I am pretty sure they are not castrated, as that would be insulting to them and their honour, as well as making peeing really awkward and serving no practical purposed.
So sans the armor, what are they wearing? Do SW's run around in viking clothing while DA where smocks? Or is there a sort of uniform they sport around?
Two schools of thought on this. If it really is black, it would probably tint the skin of the Marines as skin isn't entirely opaque. But, the Marines probably have pretty tough skin, and there is always the melanochrome which leaves Marines (at least those of caucasian and other light skinned background) tanned in most light settings to protect them.
Castrated? Probably not physically. Maybe chemically. There's really very little about the sexuality of the Space Marines. I'd assume it's been muted either via chemical castration, or through the indoctrination process in order to make them more resistant to the temptations of the flesh.
Clothing has been represented dozens of ways in the fluff, so really it probably is left to your imagination and preference, especially if you're inventing your own chapter. Some of the art shows, or fluff describes, them in robes, some in functional form fitting body suits, some in utility type fatigues, others in more formal attire. Other fluff suggests they're so hard they just wear their armor all the damned time because f' you, that's why. I imagine chapters like the Ultramarines (and many of their successors), or Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, etc, have some kind of "service" uniform that they wear when not in combat, and functional uniforms for training outside of power armor . Space Wolves might have something more styled to their native dress. Dark Angels seem don robes over their armor so there's no reason they wouldn't wear them (perhaps over something functional) out of armor too.
Termie armor takes a little longer than power armor but it's a relatively quick process, I imagine you throw it on and it makes the connections to the BC its self. Termie armor is a little more of a process, it might even take two people to fully suit up, but I know that in the SW omnibus when they are boarding a ship they toss on the PA with relative ease. But that's it for thread jacking. If anyone has pictures of SM in a more "casual" wear, by all means post them!
Yet another question with title "naked Space Marine".
Why is everyone interested in Space Marines naked and no one is asking the same question for Sisters? What are they wearing under their armor?
To answer OP. Black carapace probable looks something like diving suite ( remember that black, rubber suit all over your body except hands and head ).
Adn for the last time they have ding dongs. Nowhere is stated that they are removed because they are important part of the sacred Human body.
Re. what marines wear when they're not in armour, apart from robes I specifically remember it being mentioned in A Thousand Sons that at one point Ahriman was wearing a crimson tunic and khaki combat fatigues.
So yeah, not just robes. I'd think they'd wear whatever's practical for them, be it robes or fatigues or whatever else they can get that'll fit 'em.
I imagine that outside of actually deployment, they only wear their armour for battle training purposes. After all, they have to eat sleep and attend theory training sessions. Armour is constantly inspected and repaired, you can't do that while wearing it.
They are obviously bigger than normal humans, but most implants are internal, though some implants may be visible on the surface.
I assume that space marines are capable of sex, but that they have little or no sex drive and would rarely have the opportunity. They aren't greatly interested in sex because their duty comes first. that said there are a lot of space marine chapters and all are a bit different, some are particularly erratic so it's possible that there are marines that have sexual relationships. Maybe the genetic modification they undergo with the gen-seed renders them infertile? We don't know.
First, to quell the line of thinking about "Hurr Space Marines and Sex!": The Astartes are chem-gelded. That means they physically and mentally have no sexual desires.
Second: The majority of descriptions of Astartes outside of their Power Armour have them wearing a fairly simple tunic, pants, and boots. Over that they'll wear a tabard or something else bearing the Chapter's livery. Depending on the Chapter or Astartes in question, he might also wear carapace armor and be fully prepared for war outside of being in his Power Armour.
Kanluwen wrote:First, to quell the line of thinking about "Hurr Space Marines and Sex!": The Astartes are chem-gelded. That means they physically and mentally have no sexual desires.
I have NEVER seen the supposed fluff that says this. Nothing has ever said they have been chemically steralized.
The only thing I have ever seen is that the psycoconditionaing they take basically reprograms their brain and removes their sex drive. They are still fully functional, but will have no urge or desire to have sex.
Wishful thinking, regardless of the answer you pick.
I deem it likely that the respective organs are either atrophied as a side-effect to the chemical treatment forced on their bodies (see real-life bodybuilders) or surgically removed. Certainly it would be much easier for the waste recycler in the armour to simply plug it into a valve than to insert a cathether every time the suit is donned. Not to mention that genitalia would simply occupy useless space in the armour and, at worst, evoke an unnecessarily uncomfortable feeling. Especially when the massive horsecawk that I'm sure a number of fans wish upon their oh-so-manly Marines begins to rub against the hard plating of the suit. When I look at the cross-section, I just don't see the armour being ergonomical enough for this - it looks rather "smooth around the bend". And let's be honest, given the extensive modifications made to a Marine's body and mind, why would the Emperor forget about this? Astartes are made for fighting, and nothing else. Allowing them to keep their "tools" brings only drawbacks and no advantages.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, I see it as being more grimdark this way. Sacrificing one's humanity and all. *shrugs*
But(!) we all have our own preferences and interpretations, so without a "canon" to go by there is no wrong answer to this.
Isn't testosterone required for the Space Marine transformation though, and that's produced mostly in the gonads. So they'd have to be removed pretty late in the process then.
It also seems unlikely that the Space Wolves and chapters like them would allow castration regardless of whether there was any need for the organs or not.
Kanluwen wrote:Except we have nothing to support that, but do have reference to a cocktail of drugs which make them chemically sterile.
That. I've always thought that, like Howard A. Treesong said, their sctrict monastic ideology and their devotion to duty had something to do with their lack of sexual urges, too.
Besides, I can imagine the reason why Space Marines are kept that way. If they were able and willing to reproduce they might establish themselves as a ruling aristocracy of übermenschen. Not good.
As for the Black Carapace, I imagine it being a milimetres thick layer of elastic phlebotinum-enriched kevlar under the skin. Probably not enough to stop a bolter round but sufficient to make stabbing a Marine without power armour a daunting challenge. It probably doesn't provide full coverage, though.
Kanluwen wrote:Except we have nothing to support that, but do have reference to a cocktail of drugs which make them chemically sterile.
We don't need evidence to support it. We need evidence that they are sterile/completely incapable of having sex.
The burden of proof is on the side that says they are sterile.
I think they are unable to have sex because of the psychoconditioning, not because they are actually neutered(chemically or otherwise) I don't have evidence, but I am ok with that and have no desire to push the subject and could care less if I am wrong.
Space Marines are chemically castrated, so it's more like they have an operation and you would see no external evidence of it. They have all the required parts, but due to whatever chemical they use, they cannot procreate.
Lynata wrote:I deem it likely that the respective organs are either atrophied as a side-effect to the chemical treatment forced on their bodies (see real-life bodybuilders) or surgically removed. Certainly it would be much easier for the waste recycler in the armour to simply plug it into a valve than to insert a cathether every time the suit is donned. Not to mention that genitalia would simply occupy useless space in the armour and, at worst, evoke an unnecessarily uncomfortable feeling.
When mentioning the armour is is worth remembering that there are non-marines who wear marine/terminator armour and I assume they are not all castrated to fit in. Clearly the suits can be equipped for normal people so there's no reason there to assume marines are different.
Yet another question with title "naked Space Marine".
Why is everyone interested in Space Marines naked and no one is asking the same question for Sisters? What are they wearing under their armor?
Probably something practical. Like an full body suit that is both fire-proof, insulating, breathing, antibacterial, wind-resistant, silent, waterproof, anti infrared, flexible, provides light ballistic protection and has cushions.
( The two latter are for protecting the user from pieces of their own armor. )
Thats what I would quess but since their armor ain't too practical anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.
Safor wrote:
Probably something practical. Like an full body suit that is both fire-proof, insulating, breathing, antibacterial, wind-resistant, silent, waterproof, anti infrared, flexible, provides light ballistic protection and has cushions.
( The two latter are for protecting the user from pieces of their own armor. )
Thats what I would quess but since their armor ain't too practical anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.
Because many people here seem to have a VERY STRONG desire to see naked genetically engineered giant MEN.
I, on the other hand, want to know what Eldar Banshees wear under their armor
And for the Emperors sake keep your helmets on.
My Space Marine army will have helmets, all of them.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm scared.
I am in agreement with Lynata.
*dramatic thundercrack*
I'll mark it down in my calendar!
Kanluwen wrote:It's worth mentioning as well that those individuals have to wear a kind of interfacing 'suit' in most accounts.
That's what I would say as well - assuming that Marine power armour relies entirely on the Black Carapace and lacks conventional interfacing. Additionally, few people are as bulky as Space Marines to begin with (I might even go as far and suggest that the suits are incompatible as both have been tailored to the individual, even when based on the same parts - I'm sure those pieces come in different sizes).
Safor wrote:Probably something practical. Like an full body suit [...]
Likely. At least it would look fitting (both from an in-universe as well as from a sci-fi fan perspective). That said, if the "moving" parts of power armour consists of fiber bundles instead of servo motors and mechanized joints (as I had assumed when I started the hobby), they could even be woven directly into the bodyglove so that it would form an integral piece of the armour as well as something that you could wear without the heavy plates. In a way, power armour could thus be likened to the medieval combination of gambeson and platemail ...
Thanks for giving me this idea!
Actually, if you look very closely at the SoB miniatures, you even see something "ribbed" at the joints and beneath the armour plates, which I always assumed would be the undergarment. Better visible on this cover from the Daemonifuge books, though as with many artist impressions it takes some liberty from the actual miniatures (lower pic).
Safor wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.
Another plausible idea, this one focusing on their humble lifestyle. Iirc, FFG's RPG even came up with some sort of "penitent garb" that is deliberately scratchy and uncomfortable to wear, though I suppose it would go a bit too far wearing something like this into battle.
Ugh, I need to stop sidetracking threads by jumping at every opportunity to talk about SoB. Carry on, guys.
Thanks. I guess we both "wasted" a lot of time on hunting down little bits of background knowledge.
Which makes me all the more angry that there is so little consistency, resulting in people like him and me getting into arguments when we've read different things and thus have developed an interpretation that, often enough, seems incompatible.
The quest for knowledge is always difficult, especially when people ask about something there is little to none answer at all.
But I am satisfied with knowledge I currently have and I am thirsty for more. Reading posts here I learned a lot, after all - that is the true purpose of this site.
Brother Coa: True, true. Even if all this knowledge is rendered "controversial" by the lack of canonicity, it is still fun reading up on all these things and expanding one's perception - including things that you only hear from other people. This kind of exchange will remain enjoyable no matter what, and forums such as this one are perfect for it.
Lynata wrote:Which makes me all the more angry that there is so little consistency,
The only thing consistent about 40K is that nothing is consistent. GW has always had terrible, or nonexistent fact checking when it came to their work, both in and out of house. Everything is contradicted, so you have to attempt to make sense out of whatever the most reasonable published parts are. Hence why the Codex Astartes results in so much debate. People with no sense of military structure, strategy, warfighting, or history believe the Graham McNeil version of it where it's some kind of absurdly narrow text akin to "If A, then B" instructions. Those who do have a bit of experience in those other fields realize there would be no way that Space Marines could win battles fighting in that manner, and believe the descriptions of the Codex that present it as a giant tome of near endless knowledge and wisdom, with countless examples for every situation that a commander can turn to as guidance when they need to use their initiative to make a decision.
I can't believe I'd let myself get drawn into a discussion about toy soldier sex, but it is important to note for some people that sterility and virility are different concepts. If they are castrating the Marines, they are removing their ability to have sex at all(either by testicle removal or rendering them inert). However, a Marine can be sterilized without this process. It seems to be accepted canon, though I can't place the source and I'm not even going to bother to look, lol, that Marines are infertile and cannot reproduce. Whether or not they have sexual urges of any kind is the debate, though one might wonder why it is debated. Reason seems to follow that you'd want to prevent temptation in a universe full of Slaanesh. But at the same time, Marines have been lured to Slaanesh since the Heresy, so obviously he still has something to offer them in terms of sensual pleasures. While there's the long standing myth of saltpeter in the food of military recruits, it is really just the stress of boot camp and the general lack of members of the opposite sex which suppresses the libido. It's possible that Space Marines are simply too well indoctrinated too inexperienced, and hypnotically suggested to concern themselves with women and sex. They are also on a lot of different drugs to manage their enhanced physiologies. It stands to reason amongst those drugs is a libido suppressant. Which would then explain how they can still possibly be turned by it.
Safor wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.
Another plausible idea, this one focusing on their humble lifestyle. Iirc, FFG's RPG even came up with some sort of "penitent garb" that is deliberately scratchy and uncomfortable to wear, though I suppose it would go a bit too far wearing something like this into battle.
Well considering their ascetic lifestyle and militarism, underwear made of Merino wool would be more likely. You get the material from Merino sheep and it has amazing features.
It insulates pretty well even while wet but hardly overheats the body. Its comfortable, antibacterial and it can be made flexible, completely fireproof and anti infrared.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Whether or not they have sexual urges of any kind is the debate, though one might wonder why it is debated.
Slaanesh may be a factor. But I prefer to think celibacy amongst Space Marines is enforced for political reasons. The same reasons why ancient Chinese emperors castrated their most trusted servants, the higher echelons of their courts, so as they remained loyal to the Royal Family and only to them.
Without offspring, there's no foreplanning, no power play, no divided loyalties, no dynasties of powerful officials plotting to their own advantage instead of working for the good of the Empire and, most importantly, no dreams of ever usurping the throne.
Agent_Tremolo wrote:The same reasons why ancient Chinese emperors castrated their most trusted servants, the higher echelons of their courts, so as they remained loyal to the Royal Family and only to them.
I thought that was to stop them knocking around with any of his concubines seeing as there was a lot of them and a lot of servants and only one of him. Where relationships were found the penalties were harsh.
Imagine if one of those trusted courtiers managed to get the empress, or one of the princesses, pregnant. A bastard child with a claim to the throne. Indamissible!.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's not the case of our Marines, though.
However, try to imagine what would have been of the Imperium if our Russ, Girlyman, Dorn, Magnus, Sanguinius et al. (not to mention all the praefects and legionnaries under their command) had been able to start their own dynasties...
This is the best thread ever created in the history of ever.
I should point out that using Marines joining Slaanesh isn't proof of the possibility of Spehss Mehreen sex drive. Slaanesh is not inherently concerned with sex, and indeed every Slaaneshi Marine I have seen has never demonstrated sexual desire. Take Lucius the Eternal as an example, he's mostly concerned with the sensations involved in fighting and killing opponents, especially strong ones. Slaanesh is about sensation in general, not merely sexual sensation.
As far as I know, no Slaaneshi Marine has demonstrated a sex drive, but even if one has, that could be explained by Slaaneshi mutations giving him a drive (And possibly equipment, if indeed the Marine lacks it, Slaanesh is easily capable of such things). On whether or not a Marine has any equipment or not, I've never seen anything that indicates anything regarding it (And why would I? It's a pretty irrelevant detail). I will say that I doubt they'd have the horsecawk as Lynata said, since that would seem pretty detrimental and uncomfortable for someone whose sole existence is meant to be spent fighting and winning battles.
Oh, but onto the physicality of a Space Marine. It should be noted that in every work I've seen regarding a Marine without armour, they were described as so bulky and muscular as to appear monstrous or inhuman, appearing more intimidating out of armour because normal humans learn that the armour does not, in fact, add the greater part of their bulk to their bodies.
In Salamander various marines are described as wearing clothing that is, more or less, "normal" when out of their armor. Of course, the Salamanders are hardly average.
In the Fall of Damnos, they're described in fatigues.
As for sex, like clothing I would assume that varies from chapter to chapter. There are several instances in the Space Wolves codex, for example, where their...um...prowess is brought up in references to activities not related to combat.
Arandmoor wrote:In Salamander various marines are described as wearing clothing that is, more or less, "normal" when out of their armor. Of course, the Salamanders are hardly average.
In the Fall of Damnos, they're described in fatigues.
As for sex, like clothing I would assume that varies from chapter to chapter. There are several instances in the Space Wolves codex, for example, where their...um...prowess is brought up in references to activities not related to combat.
Loki's sexual prowess refers to before he was a Space Marine, IIRC.
Well, it's old fluff, but in Slaves to Darkness it...hints that the Emperor's Children assault on Earth included them raping a large chunk of the population.
"As one of the traitor legions, the Emperor's Children invaded Earth, but took little part in the fighting around the Imperial Palace. Simple pleasures had given way to complex debaucheries. While there allies fought and died the Emperor's Children slaughtered more than a million people and rendered them down to create endless varieties of drugs and stimulants. Countless thousands more died to give the Legionnaire's more direct, if cruder, enjoyment."
It also states; "The thrill of battle is a rediscovered thrill and aphrodisiac, allowing them to reach new extremes of debauchery."
Both are taken from Page 263, if people wish to check.
While neither specifically states they whip it and plug it in, as it were, it certainly hints more that they like to do more than just...er...grind people into super-coke. So unless a more recent book specifically says they don't...
Possibly the Marines after them were modified to not have the gear or desire, but I don't think the Imperium modifies the Marines much. So I'd say they have the gear. They simply lack opportunity and focus on other things.
Kanluwen wrote:First, to quell the line of thinking about "Hurr Space Marines and Sex!": The Astartes are chem-gelded. That means they physically and mentally have no sexual desires.
You're not going to find a source specifically discussing Space Marine sexuality or lack thereof. GW keeps things fairly PG-13.
However, there are a few things that can be inferred. As Lynata mentioned, marines are pumped full of super-steroids of all kinds. Those tend to induce sterility in real life and atrophying of the wedding tackle. I doubt marines are any different in that regard. I would also assume that psycho-conditioning would include suppressing what was left of their sex drive, not even necessarily intentionally, just due to the extreme focus on training and duty.
That said, in Fulgrim, it is implied that Fabius Bile has found a way of re-awakening the sex drive in the Emperor's Children. Then during the "concert" in which the audience basically crosses to Slaanesh, there's a lot of rape or sex in general implied, even from the marines in attendance. Sex is usually implied in descriptions of Slaaneshi followers, and I would imagine the marines are no different. See also the Emperor's Children during the siege of Terra, as mentioned. If they were just torturing people, GW would say so. "Cruder" desires is just PG-13 code for sexual assault.
So like I said, no specific sources, but with a little guesswork and reading between the lines, it seems like marines probably still have all the right bits, but they're mostly out of service. However it's still possible to bring all the right systems back on line, either through the right chemical cocktail, or through the influence of Slaanesh. This all jives pretty well with real-life medicine and with the scant descriptions in the fluff, and it's the interpretation I personally go with.
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:However it's still possible to bring all the right systems back on line, either through the right chemical cocktail, or through the influence of Slaanesh. This all jives pretty well with real-life medicine and with the scant descriptions in the fluff, and it's the interpretation I personally go with.
Same here. They can also grow tentacle arms and breasts, so ...
Kanluwen wrote:First, to quell the line of thinking about "Hurr Space Marines and Sex!": The Astartes are chem-gelded. That means they physically and mentally have no sexual desires.
Source?
You are seriously asking source to this response? Like hundred years of nothing more then devotion to the Emperor, Mankind and waging constant war sor survival is not reason enough. Now you give me source of Space Marine having sex with some female, or male in that question. You can't because that thing don't exist for them.
They are Humanity's finest warriors, that title implement that you can't have time for other things like personal life, wealth and sexual desires.
As Kan said, they are effectively chemically castrated. It's not like this is part of the process like "We're on step 14: time for some good old-fashioned castration!". It's more like a side-effect. So much is altered in them that they lose that part of their humanity.
Learn the difference between evidence and inference, people.
I'll cheerfully concur that the Astartes as depicted are uninterested in sex: they are, fundamentally, the protagonists of war stories, not Mills and Boon novels. But, unless it can be explicitly substantiated from a canonical source that they are deliberately and specifically chemically neutered, claiming that they are is inaccurate and misleading.
I've always thought that the Astartes out of his armor probably had ports on his body as the appropriate places that looked kinda like the ones on the people from the Matrix movies that hook them to the machines and into the Matrix or Like when Neo woke up in the machines heat farming pods. Also kinda like the ones on the Borg kids as well.
English Assassin wrote:Where?
I have already asked once.
Various articles about their creation. Usually when they mention they must be male too.
Various articles, eh? Then you should have no trouble citing one to support your contention that Marines are not only sterile but deliberately castrated...
Actually I said they weren't deliberate. Unfortunately WD doesn't have a giant annual Index like national geographic and if I'm going to dedicate that much time to debating the genitalia of imaginary people on the Internet I better take another look at my life! Oh wait, I'm already passed the point of sanity on that one.
... Just to clarify, are there female marines? Are recruits female before they get all modified and stuff?
Also, all marines could all be the same gender after all the implants.
Hellwolf wrote:... Just to clarify, are there female marines? Are recruits female before they get all modified and stuff?
Also, all marines could all be the same gender after all the implants.
Well, the main reason I started this thread was to see what the SM wore casually, especially mentioning the SW as I am on the second omnibus and still cannot find a picture on the internet. The whole issue of castration (cutting it off vs. chemically suppressing sex drive) was really a side note aimed at showing one of my friends what the general voice on this was (which is quite contested). So, without further ado, since there are obviously no pictures of actual SM walking around sans armor, I will go ahead and throw in on the issue of their manhood, although deep down I hear myself screaming not to get involved. I'm of the school of though that the sex drive and ability to have sex is entirely removed, and although there may be characters making eyes at women throughout certain series, it doesn't mean it will get anywhere past that. Not having a drive doesn't mean not finding a member of the opposite sex attractive. Someone mentioned the idea that humanity might not look kindly on the actual removal of the "parts" as it could be considered blasphemy, which leads me to believe the organs are left however flaccid and otherwise useless, aside from keeping the body whole and not being a mutant. The reasons for not having the drive are numerous so you'll just have to accept the fact your precious marines aren't slaying the bad guys then getting laid back at their barracks, it just isn't feasible with all of the negative benefactors being involved, to name a few which have already been stated: continuing lineage (dynasties), temptations, and the image of the Astartes itself. The list could go on and on. Also, I'm not particularly in the mood for going back and quoting who said it, but discussing lore and discussing toy soldiers are two different things. This is more of a literature seminar than examining a miniature, however if you feel so inclined go ahead with it.
I remember seeing a article online about a Space Marine Chapter, Rainbow Warriors I believe, had been stranded on a planet and isolated from the Imperium for a fairly long time. So long that they took wives(or just women to breed with) cause they could no longer find suitable recruits among the populace. Of course I have no idea where to find this tidbit now
And seriously, I do not think other marines need either. Most chapters tend not to much socialise with the civilian population, so were marines to have sexual urges, I'm sure they'd just have some manly bonding experiences with their battle-brothers.
In the third book of the Inquisition War trilogy, it goes into depth about a space marine named Lex. Lex takes off his armor and is wearing a netted bodysuit under his armor and nothing else. He has studs on his spine that interact with the suit. His black carapice is under his skin and cannot be seen by anyone. He has all of his equipment intact. Lex talks to a curious dwarf and the dwarf asks him about it. He is fully functional and can have sex to full capacity like a normal human. He is Imperial Fist and talks that he is trained to subdue any sexual desires. It is a form of self denial and disapline. When talking to the dwarf, he took it as an insult that anyone would think a space marine would succumb to such a simple desire.
Not only between 10-14, at least not all chapters. Some you can be into your mid 20s or possibly older when being inducted, or at least that has been implied.
I was under the impression SW take them older, as some of them had full grown beards to their chests when being inducted, and I always assumed Ragnar was somewhere around 17-18 when going through the training and preparation needed to become a SM.
Crimson wrote:Rainbow Warriors need no women for sex!
And seriously, I do not think other marines need either. Most chapters tend not to much socialise with the civilian population, so were marines to have sexual urges, I'm sure they'd just have some manly bonding experiences with their battle-brothers.
Ravenor's counter-pysker read erotic novels on a data slate at one point in the books so... I don't know...
From what I've gathered, a female implanted with a Gene Seed dies a rather horrible death.
Also in the Space Wolves book I recall Ragnar being sexually involved with some psyker / inquisitor something woman (who later died or got trapped in some pyramid thing with a plague demon)
Ovion wrote:From what I've gathered, a female implanted with a Gene Seed dies a rather horrible death.
Also in the Space Wolves book I recall Ragnar being sexually involved with some psyker / inquisitor something woman (who later died or got trapped in some pyramid thing with a plague demon)
Ragnar said he had feelings he believed he shouldn't be having, however his imagination was about as far as it got. They were never anything more than a SW and psyker on a mission with an inquisitor. Although, I would imagine she had a rather interesting time reading his thoughts...
Ovion wrote:From what I've gathered, a female implanted with a Gene Seed dies a rather horrible death.
If they die, it's usually the most pleasant thing that could happen to them. Those that live with a gene-seed that doesn't match their DNA suffer far more, often ending up as raving madman/madwomen attacking everyone that even comes near.
Hm. Well, that IS your average marine to a non-imperial...
English Assassin wrote:Learn the difference between evidence and inference, people.
I'll cheerfully concur that the Astartes as depicted are uninterested in sex: they are, fundamentally, the protagonists of war stories, not Mills and Boon novels. But, unless it can be explicitly substantiated from a canonical source that they are deliberately and specifically chemically neutered, claiming that they are is inaccurate and misleading.
He's got a point - although I maintain my position of the "bits" being affected by the creation process (atrophy due to chemicals and/or outright removal - the latter seems more practical for interfacing with the armour), I have actually never seen it directly stated in a GW source. It's just something I file under personal interpretation due to common sense, and a preference for "keeping things grimdark", in this case a further sacrifice of the candidate's humanity.
As far as novels go, we already know their authors state what they want, and you can probably find anything in one if you just keep looking long enough. Not that there would be an official "canon" to go by, anyways. I'm afraid this topic is just yet another one of those subjects where there are countless different, at times overlapping interpretations.
English Assassin wrote:Learn the difference between evidence and inference, people.
I'll cheerfully concur that the Astartes as depicted are uninterested in sex: they are, fundamentally, the protagonists of war stories, not Mills and Boon novels. But, unless it can be explicitly substantiated from a canonical source that they are deliberately and specifically chemically neutered, claiming that they are is inaccurate and misleading.
He's got a point - although I maintain my position of the "bits" being affected by the creation process (atrophy due to chemicals and/or outright removal - the latter seems more practical for interfacing with the armour), I have actually never seen it directly stated in a GW source. It's just something I file under personal interpretation due to common sense, and a preference for "keeping things grimdark", in this case a further sacrifice of the candidate's humanity.
As far as novels go, we already know their authors state what they want, and you can probably find anything in one if you just keep looking long enough. Not that there would be an official "canon" to go by, anyways. I'm afraid this topic is just yet another one of those subjects where there are countless different, at times overlapping interpretations.
aquilaenet wrote
In the third book of the Inquisition War trilogy, it goes into depth about a space marine named Lex. Lex takes off his armor and is wearing a netted bodysuit under his armor and nothing else. He has studs on his spine that interact with the suit. His black carapice is under his skin and cannot be seen by anyone. He has all of his equipment intact. Lex talks to a curious dwarf and the dwarf asks him about it. He is fully functional and can have sex to full capacity like a normal human. He is Imperial Fist and talks that he is trained to subdue any sexual desires. It is a form of self denial and disapline. When talking to the dwarf, he took it as an insult that anyone would think a space marine would succumb to such a simple desire.
So I know that some of the novels play fast and loose with the canon, but if the above example is considered in-canon, then that answers whether they have their equipment, and whether they can physically have sex.
It still doesn't answer whether they are sterile or not.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anyway, I guess the black carapace allows control of power armour somehow without any sockets or plugs or other interfaces.
Oh, my comment was referring more to the waste recycler. There are only so many ways to connect to there.
Regarding the suit control interface, that one cross section of a power armour did show a row of "spikes" in the back of the armour that would poke into the spine of the Marine wearing it. I rather like the idea; suitably grimdark.
As far as age of sources goes - that doesn't really have to mean anything. As per Andy Hoare, even Rogue Trader fluff was still 100% in effect for the writing of the SoB's last proper Codex.
That being said, we know from GW vets and even BL authors alike that "canon", especially for details such as these, simply isn't in effect, so anything written anywhere is quite simply irrelevant. There is no universal truth, there is no right or wrong, and there is no proof for anything.
And besides, we all know that even very recent novels can introduce a lot of funny ideas. *coughmultilaserscough*
Grass4hopper wrote:
So I know that some of the novels play fast and loose with the canon, but if the above example is considered in-canon, then that answers whether they have their equipment, and whether they can physically have sex.
It still doesn't answer whether they are sterile or not.
To the far left is normal Human, to the fer right is a Space Marine.
Now find me a female that can have sex with him and survive.
Void__Dragon wrote:As far as I know, no Slaaneshi Marine has demonstrated a sex drive, but even if one has, that could be explained by Slaaneshi mutations giving him a drive (And possibly equipment, if indeed the Marine lacks it, Slaanesh is easily capable of such things).
Well... Julius was described as being in 'orgasmic pleasure' when he got stabbed in the groin... that's the only thing which could be read as having a sex drive that I've seen regarding Space Marines apart from one of the Space Wolves books. Then again, if Slaanesh likes giving people boobs with eyes, there's no reason it wouldn't give them other things too.
In the book Rynn's world I rem one of the captains saying he was offered things like, family relics, food, gifts and even women. but he had no use for them.
I would assume they are capable but simply trained to have far more important things.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anyway, I guess the black carapace allows control of power armour somehow without any sockets or plugs or other interfaces.
Given everything else we "know" that power armor can do, I think subdermal interfaces seem among the least unbelievable. You can start a lot of modern cars just by having the "key" in your pocket no?
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anyway, I guess the black carapace allows control of power armour somehow without any sockets or plugs or other interfaces.
Oh, my comment was referring more to the waste recycler. There are only so many ways to connect to there.
Regarding the suit control interface, that one cross section of a power armour did show a row of "spikes" in the back of the armour that would poke into the spine of the Marine wearing it. I rather like the idea; suitably grimdark.
As far as age of sources goes - that doesn't really have to mean anything. As per Andy Hoare, even Rogue Trader fluff was still 100% in effect for the writing of the SoB's last proper Codex.
That being said, we know from GW vets and even BL authors alike that "canon", especially for details such as these, simply isn't in effect, so anything written anywhere is quite simply irrelevant. There is no universal truth, there is no right or wrong, and there is no proof for anything.
And besides, we all know that even very recent novels can introduce a lot of funny ideas. *coughmultilaserscough*
I don't know if it has been said here yet, but in Brothers of the Snake, the space marines are depicted as wearing tight fitting bodygloves or wearing a thong/border-line naked. But their homeworld is a hot ocean world so that makes sense.
Durza wrote:Well... Julius was described as being in 'orgasmic pleasure' when he got stabbed in the groin... that's the only thing which could be read as having a sex drive that I've seen regarding Space Marines apart from one of the Space Wolves books. Then again, if Slaanesh likes giving people boobs with eyes, there's no reason it wouldn't give them other things too.
True, but, well, I guess the best way to explain this is that for a Slaaneshi Marine, any kind of strong sensation is the equivelant to an orgasm.
Oh, and Julius didn't get stabbed in the groin, rather, he drove his spear through the groin and out the upper back of an Iron Hands marine. Pretty gakky way to die, all things considered. Julius got stabbed in the chest by Lightning Claws, I believe.
Brother Coa wrote:
Now find me a female that can have sex with him and survive.
Well, as far as it's not missionary position - any of my ex-GFs ? Considering SM physical endurance and control...well,many girls would be crazy 'bout them.
IDK, the psycho-conditioning may have stripped them of the ability to have erection on demand.
I can imagine the poor marines having bad ED and being slightly confused about everything. "Sooo is something supposed to happen? Is there a button or something?"
Grey Templar wrote:IDK, the psycho-conditioning may have stripped them of the ability to have erection on demand.
I can imagine the poor marines having bad ED and being slightly confused about everything. "Sooo is something supposed to happen? Is there a button or something?"
I can see the librarians having less trouble though ;P
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:That said, in Fulgrim, it is implied that Fabius Bile has found a way of re-awakening the sex drive in the Emperor's Children. Then during the "concert" in which the audience basically crosses to Slaanesh, there's a lot of rape or sex in general implied, even from the marines in attendance.
IIRC when one of them looks at the scantily clad opera lady he is described as having a strange feeling of the sort that usually only occurs when he gazes at his primarch. So homoeroticism ftw. Oh Graham McNeill, we do love you so.
As a retired veteran I can say for sure that Through boot camp/AIT/cycled into duty, when no women are present there is no sexual drive. Even in times of war, and the constant threat of getting killed, the desire for sex is on about the same level of the desire for a penut butter sandwhich. Yeah you could make one out of penut butter packets and tuna flatbread in the MRE's, but you've got other stuff to worry about.
Another note. Know why there are rarely women on the front lines? Its NOT because of hygene reasons like some would have you believe, it is because when a female is shot and starts screaming, it is primal in our nature to defend, which means sometimes stupid choices. We had a medic accompany us once on a patrol because she was the only medic available on our FOB and we got into a fire fight, she was shot in the foot, and when she screamed, 3 of my squadmates droped their lanes of fire and ran to her... Tis the power of human nature, to ignore the little flying metal pieces trying to kill you and run to a womens aid.
Space marines take years to develope the mentality and I for one can vouche that if its driven into you enough, you WILL believe it.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:IIRC when one of them looks at the scantily clad opera lady he is described as having a strange feeling of the sort that usually only occurs when he gazes at his primarch. So homoeroticism ftw. Oh Graham McNeill, we do love you so.
Oh Jesus, I remember that part.
Though to be fair, Fulgrim is liek, supar bishie hawt and stuff, it's his defining character trait.
Abyssel wrote:As a retired veteran I can say for sure that Through boot camp/AIT/cycled into duty, when no women are present there is no sexual drive. Even in times of war, and the constant threat of getting killed, the desire for sex is on about the same level of the desire for a penut butter sandwhich. Yeah you could make one out of penut butter packets and tuna flatbread in the MRE's, but you've got other stuff to worry about.
Another note. Know why there are rarely women on the front lines? Its NOT because of hygene reasons like some would have you believe, it is because when a female is shot and starts screaming, it is primal in our nature to defend, which means sometimes stupid choices. We had a medic accompany us once on a patrol because she was the only medic available on our FOB and we got into a fire fight, she was shot in the foot, and when she screamed, 3 of my squadmates droped their lanes of fire and ran to her... Tis the power of human nature, to ignore the little flying metal pieces trying to kill you and run to a womens aid.
Space marines take years to develope the mentality and I for one can vouche that if its driven into you enough, you WILL believe it.
I'd never believed that anecdote about running to the aid of a woman in combat before. If you're serious, hopefully everyone came out okay. If any of my Marines had ever done that (abandoning their sectors of fire in combat), my NCO mind is racing to come up with appropriate punishments that wouldn't get me discharged for hazing or abuse.
Honestly, the reasoning I've always had, and it seems to be the oft unspoken one is of simple logistics. Infantry units are all male, which allows for easy billeting, shower, etc facilities. The Commandant of the US Marines brought up the lack of funding for separate barracks as one of the reasons why he felt a quick transition to repealing DADT was a bad idea. We billet women separately for reasons of gender identity and privacy (not because we are worried about rape). Altering the composition of infantry units in modern military forces means getting around the whole "shared living quarters" problem. These sorts of issues aren't relevant to sedentary or semi-mobile units. For the grunts, it's a big deal.
But before we go too far off on a tangent, yeah, if you take women out of the equation and incorporate high stress and discipline, the sex drive will be sublimated. If you remove sex (and for the most part, women) from the equation and consume a Space Marine's time with prayer, exercise, combat drills and honestly, probably a lot of time sleeping between destinations thanks to the Sus-An modification, they aren't going to have a lot of sexual impulses, with or without some kind of chemical suppressant or other kind of sterilization/castration.
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:That said, in Fulgrim, it is implied that Fabius Bile has found a way of re-awakening the sex drive in the Emperor's Children. Then during the "concert" in which the audience basically crosses to Slaanesh, there's a lot of rape or sex in general implied, even from the marines in attendance.
IIRC when one of them looks at the scantily clad opera lady he is described as having a strange feeling of the sort that usually only occurs when he gazes at his primarch. So homoeroticism ftw. Oh Graham McNeill, we do love you so.
Warhammer does seems a bit homoerotic at times, all those space marines cooped up together all the time. If you can get hold of the novel Space Marines that's quite blatant what with all the sphincters...
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:That said, in Fulgrim, it is implied that Fabius Bile has found a way of re-awakening the sex drive in the Emperor's Children. Then during the "concert" in which the audience basically crosses to Slaanesh, there's a lot of rape or sex in general implied, even from the marines in attendance.
IIRC when one of them looks at the scantily clad opera lady he is described as having a strange feeling of the sort that usually only occurs when he gazes at his primarch. So homoeroticism ftw. Oh Graham McNeill, we do love you so.
It does say that only the humans did sex and rape that night. The Marines killed things.
I second that. My TT space marine armies are always fully helmeted. No man goes without one. I think the SM head bits make them look more dwarfish anyways.
SM would have to have a sex drive. testosterone is what gives us males a sex drive and it';s the key hormone that keys the geen seed work (thats why no female SMs). to get rid of the drive you would have to get rid of the hormone and that would not work. So most likely their minds are messed with to view that drive as aggression. but it would be there.
They don't have a sex drive. You don't have to have a sex drive or urge to be with a female in order to create testosterone. They have been chemically and genetically altered, so it isn't a stretch to say the sex drive has been wiped from their genetic make-up.
