Ok, now that the December WD has hit the shelves, we've seen pretty much everything that GW has to offer this year. Time for a look back to see the highlights and lowlights of their 2011 output using the following rating system;

Truly Inspired
Mildly Perplexing
Utterly Awful

And of course, feel free to chip in with your own views

January - Skaven Wave 2

A generous slew of rat related minis saw the completion of the skaven miniature line. This is one of the rare occasions when GW has had a miniature available for every single entry in an army book (even if some of these minis are a little outdated).

Hell Pit Abomination - not for everyone perhaps, but for me, a spot on realisation of the concept as shown and described in the book
A new gutter runner / night runner set would have made this wave perfect
Ok, there's nothing in this release that I hate, but the use of the warpstone chunk from the Warp Lightning Cannon as the Plague Claw Catapult's counter weight doesn't really work

February - Blood Angels Wave 2

GW repeats the trick and fills the few remaining holes in the Blood Angel line (though this is not exactly hard for a Space Marine army... or shouldn't be anyway)

Furioso Dreadnought in plastic at last!
Nothing really puzzling here, although Tyranid players began scratching their heads
Ok, some people kind of like it, but the fact that the Storm Raven was nicknamed the Chibi-Hawk says it all

March - Orcs & Goblins

8th months after the release of Warhammer 8th Edition, GW decide to release an army book for it

Arachnarok - big arse spider, what's not to like?
Hang on, where did all the magic items go?
Again, nothing truly awful here, but the Savage Orc Boar Boyz looked somewhat precarious on their mounts

April - Grey Knights

After a one month gap, Space Marines return in the form of the 666th Chapter and lo, they too can make use of the Storm Raven. What a happy coincidence of spectacularly remarkable proportions

Grey Knights in plastic. Hooray, now you don't need to take out a mortgage to collect them. Oh... hang on a sec, they’re still over £20 for a box of five models
An army that completely cancels out the special abilities of another army? Daemon players cry.
The Dreadknight, the pilot of which looks uncannily like he's sitting in a baby carrier. Also a dumb idea...

May - Tomb Kings

GW whack out another Fantasy release – looks like there’s no stopping them now

The Tomb Guard just edge it over the Necrosphinx/War Sphinx...
...although the decision not to reduce the scale of the skeletons to bring them into line with VC is puzzling (or just laziness given that no new TK Skeleton Warror kit was released)
Nothing abysmal here so let’s move on to...

June - The Month Where All The Bad Things Happened

Whilst June should have been about Dark Eldar Wave 2, GW gamely distracted us with some bewilderingly antagonistic shenanigans instead

GW start to replace their metal miniature range with a resin product that they brand finecast. Unfortunately the process appears rushed and many people report instances of miscasts. There is also no price drop which is frustrating given that resin is a cheaper material. In a lot of instances the price of kits actually rocketed (take a bow Blood Knights) which brings us to...
...Another price rise. Laughing in the face of wage freezes the world over, GW decides now is a good time to hike prices above the rate of inflation yet again...
...next GW decided to block cheaper imports of their products to countries outside of Europe and USA forcing “rest of the world” customers to buy at inconceivably expensive prices set in the national GW stores...
...and finally the phasing out of one month in advance previews because apparently you’re more likely to buy something if there’s no hype whatsoever

July – Storm of Magic

This month saw an overwhelming (and not necessarily in a good way) array of monsters, wizards and wacky terrain to support the new Storm of Magic supplement

The Necromancer – beautifully simplistic design - a strong contender for miniature of the year
Monsters and magic are of course an integral part of any Fantasy wargaming experience, but you can go too far IMHO
Sorry Trish, the Cockatrice and Chimera was tolerable, but the Manticore was a misfire of epic proportions – daft pose and poorly conceived design – a strong contender for worst miniature of the year

August – Vampire Surprise Wave

As GWs marketing blackout began to kick in, some unexpected releases (though not completely unexpected thanks to the obligatory leaks) began to appear. The first of these curveballs was a vampire wave that nobody was really demanding.

In any other month, the Zombie Dragon / Terrorgheist kit would have gotten the nod here, but the Garden of Morr was a thing of undisputed beauty
Tyranid players scratch their heads ever more furiously
No awfulness here (the plastic wraiths and banshees were also nice), it was just oddly timed

September – Ogre Kingdoms

The third fantasy army release of the year and probably the best supported army book ever

Most of the ogre stuff was solid if unspectacular, but I did like the Firebelly and Bragg the Executioner
Did GW really make an entire model range available for a army book in one wave?! – even Space Marine players are still waiting for a Conversion Beamer
Those fugly Yhetees released in failcast

October – Dreadfleet

Whilst the rumours began to surface (ho ho) around July/August, few people were expecting anything like this prior to that point

The sea mat was pretty cool
There was some debate on about this game on Dakka, and I think it’s safe to say that a lot of people thought this was just a strange product to release. I want to respect GW for taking a chance, but without making judgements about the game itself, it was fairly obvious that it wouldn't have widespread appeal
The big turnoff for me was the scale of the game, I just couldn’t wrap my head around ships the size of castles - like Storm of Magic, this was too Michael Bay in concept and design

November - Necrons

In the wake of last year’s Dark Eldar spectacular, here was another long awaited xenos update (it was of course amusing to see the whole thing leaked two weeks in advance)

Nothing was as sexy as the Dark Eldar miniatures, but plastic Immortals were well realised with the Deathmarks as a nifty looking alternative to the kit
In reference to the fantasy scenery piece, the Skullvane Manse, could you please make the fething skulls optionl
Flayed Ones, by no means the worst GW miniatures ever produced, but still poorly realised and in failcast to boot

December - Beastmen Wave 2

Surprise! Just when you thought they were never coming, Beastmen finally got models for their rare choices

Meh, the Ghorgon/Cygor kit wasn’t “Minotaur” disastrous, but it wasn’t in the league of the HPA or Arachnarok either – still the best thing out this month though
Whilst this was evidence that GW are committed to completing the miniature ranges for their armies, it won’t stop Tyranid players from head scratching – so what has happened to the Tervigon/Harpie/Tyranofex?
I’m going to plump for the Jabberslythe – a very lazy design of a beastie that supposedly induces madness

Anyway, that's my thoughts Over to you!

You pretty much summed it up quite well, as I have been scratching my head all year, and yes, I am a Nid player.

The Dreadknight was probably the worse miniature that comes to mind, some of the GK fluff the worst published this year.

Forgeworld did some good work again this year, as usual.

Dreadfleet was a waste. Finecast awful. The price increase and the way they shafted those living in the outer territories. The way GW pressed ahead with litigation against CHS.

It's been a year of dumb.

A good, quick yet comprehensive review!

Having not bought a WD in 4 years, there is not much I can truly add, although I thought the Flayed Ones were more of a than a .....

They are not that bad, they kind of grow on you and even if you don't like them at all, there is always eBay. As for the rest of the GW shenanigans this year, is all I really have too say on that matter!

The Megaforces are worth mentioning. They seem to be very popular, I expect quite a few people will start new armies thanks to them.

I agree with most of the stuff being said. Im just a bit confussed on the whole how comes Warplock Jezzails for Skaven cost £30.00 for three.

As a nid player Im still scratching my head... Whos also betting Crons do not get their whole range because they are not a Marine army?

We need new Nid models, we would BUY more and not moan at price (well most of it) as long as we actually got a model!

lord_blackfang wrote:The Megaforces are worth mentioning. They seem to be very popular, I expect quite a few people will start new armies thanks to them.

Actually I'd at those because checking the prices, its £130 for either of them. That's ridiculous, considering before they pulled the Megaforces off the shelves, the only 2 in stock (Orks and SM's) was £100. I'm sorry where did the extra £30 demand materialise from? *EDIT* This in regards to 40k Megaforces, though I've noticed the WHFB Megaforces are also £130 each. That's not a great saving personally.

Otherwise, a decent review. Kind of an oddball year in retrospect - good releases on the whole but questionable/terrible/soul-crushing business decisions. Next year is going to be a right mess

It's nearly two years since the Tyranid codex was released. I suspect if GW were going to release the four missing monstrous creatures they would have done so by now.

Kilkrazy wrote:It's nearly two years since the Tyranid codex was released. I suspect if GW were going to release the four missing monstrous creatures they would have done so by now.

Probably, but Beastmen came out one month later IIRC, so maybe there's some hope

Kilkrazy wrote:It's nearly two years since the Tyranid codex was released. I suspect if GW were going to release the four missing monstrous creatures they would have done so by now.

A week ago you could've said the same about the 3 missing monsters from the Beastmen army. And still missing about 2/3 of their special characters and no razorgor chariot. Not sure what that proves other then it takes them a long time to make big multi purpose monster kits.a

Excellent post, EXAULT!

Howard A Treesong wrote:The Dreadknight was probably the worse miniature that comes to mind, some of the GK fluff the worst published this year.

Come now, worse than the monkey? Worse than the chibi hawk?

I think you're overstating it.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Come now, worse than the monkey? Worse than the chibi hawk?

I think you're overstating it.

i liked the monkey but had blotted the chibi hawk out of my memory.

The CHS part improve it a good bit though.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Come now, worse than the monkey? Worse than the chibi hawk?

I think you're overstating it.

i liked the monkey but had blotted the chibi hawk out of my memory.

The CHS part improve it a good bit though.

That's the good part about the Chibi-hawk - if GW hadn't screwed up, then CHS wouldn't have had the opportunity to fix it!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Come now, worse than the monkey? Worse than the chibi hawk?

I'm not going to comment on the SM flyer, but I quite like the pictures I've seen of the Jokaero - haven't seen it in person yet, mind you.

The most telling thing from this was that the "June" made me completely forget that "January" and "February" were still in the same year.

Could you elaborate how the Necromancer would be the miniature of the year? Seems pretty boring to me.

GWs Model of the year.

FWs Model of the year.

Mangler Squigs? Putting one together right now, awesome in detail and size.

Liquid Green Stuff - best thing since Devlan Mud.)

Tamurkhan, The Throne of Chaos. Brilliant book, and very high quality production.

2011 was a bogus year IMO for GW IMO.

Business wise, they made some odd decisions such as the embargo, lack of QA with finecast, various pricing shenanigans and various legal shenanigans.

Release wise, 2011 was very Warhammer Fantasy heavy which is not inheritably bad IMO but it was a little biased IMO (probably as a counter to 2010 being a 40k year). As a standalone release, Dreadfleet was a wasted opportunity IMO in terms of price and design. The GK codex was low quality and badly designed IMO (in terms of rules and fluff). The necron book was too much of a retcon to existing fluff.

I was pretty happy with this year.

The move to finecast got me to finally buy the Tyranid elites rather than hunt for resin alternatives.

The vampire second wave and monster focus in Storm of Magic got me to give the system another look, and subsequently start an army for it for the first time in about 15 years.

Liquid green stuff was a really good release, at least for me, since I never even knew about the other products. being able to simply buy a pot for $5 from my LGS rather than hunt around obscure hobby shops in back alleys for alternatives is nice.

I was a bit unhappy with the embargo. Not because it hugely affected me - I can still get what I want from at practically the same discount from the US. But it made a lot of Australian players move to other systems or away from the hobby entirely, which thinned the crowds. This mostly makes me sad for my FLGS, since I see less people in there since the embargo, not more.

candy.man wrote:2011 was a bogus year IMO for GW IMO.

Business wise, they made some odd decisions such as the embargo, lack of QA with finecast, various pricing shenanigans and various legal shenanigans.

Release wise, 2011 was very Warhammer Fantasy heavy which is not inheritably bad IMO but it was a little biased IMO (probably as a counter to 2010 being a 40k year). As a standalone release, Dreadfleet was a wasted opportunity IMO in terms of price and design. The GK codex was low quality and badly designed IMO (in terms of rules and fluff). The necron book was too much of a retcon to existing fluff.

IMO you say "IMO" a lot. I think in terms of releases this was a great year, though Dreadfleet was a bit of a head scratcher. The GK fluff is a bit questionable, and the Necron fluff a bit jarring, but the rules themselves were great. It was nice to see Fantasy get some attention after languishing for practically a year. However, I feel many of the business decisions were very wrong headed; whether this will hurt GW remains to be seen. I think their annual report comes out in January or Feb. Not sure. Either way, that's when we'll see the impact of the embargo/finecast/price "adjustments"/etc.

There are 2 models missing from this list - there was a Nurgle Lord and something else released the same month as that, but I forget what.

Ouze wrote:There are 2 models missing from this list - there was a Nurgle Lord and something else released the same month as that, but I forget what.

Saurus Lord.

This year was meh for me. The VC models are cool, but nothing else tickled my fancy amidst all the bad business decisions.

FW had a decent year.

2012 should be a better year for me as I intend to do VC when they come out next month.

having to buy 2 WD just to get the sisters rules. To add insult to injury the sister lists were the only 40k it seemed in those 2 issues.

Sister rules. Not as bad as everybody initially thought but for the most part cost went up with effectiveness going down. When SC are the default choice over the normal HQ you know you have a problem. Still a very low tier army.

Hidden failcast price increase. Many of the failcast stuff used the same mold as before but hey lets tack on an extra couple of bucks.

GW direct sales. I bought an immolator from them which was shipped in a bag as loose spures with no instructions and missing the clear glass canopy. You know those instruction sheets are costing GW millions I call up GW direct to get instructions and the guy argues with me about needing instructions. I finally argue with him enough that he so graciously emails me a copy.

Liquid greenstuff. Love it. I thought it was going to be like $12 a pot but for $4.45 I thought it was the only decently priced item in all of GW's inventory.

To be honest I'm phasing myself out of GW products. I'm just buying a few things now and I'm only buying second hand or at my LGS which offers a quantity discount (don't want to take all my business away from my LGS it's in my best interest for them to be profitable) I'm getting ready to jump into Battletech. I lobbied successfully for my LGS to carry it (Thank you facebook!) GW has priced me out pretty much plus I see the writing on the wall on where GW is going business wise and I want out before then.

MrFlutterPie wrote: Hidden failcast price increase. Many of the failcast stuff used the same mold as before but hey lets tack on an extra couple of bucks.

None of them used the same mold. None.

You notice the sprue they were attached to? They didn't clip those off the metals for fun. They weren't in the metal mold. Every single metal model that goes finecast needs its mold redone.

afaik resin can't be spin cast. And from what I've heard, failcost has at least improved in quality since its release. I have yet to buy any as I just haven't needed to.

It's hard to get a good measure of what the quality is like now, because you still get the 'I went into a store and every single finecrap model was miscast/I went into a store and every single finecast model was perfect' posts which are both complete crap.

I think I would only buy finecost at a GW store(heresy I know) just so that if it was defective I could exchange it or get my money back right away. As such that limits my options to characters only as I will spend as little as possible at a GW store. If my LGS has a good return/exchange policy then I'll just stick with them.

-Loki- wrote:

MrFlutterPie wrote: Hidden failcast price increase. Many of the failcast stuff used the same mold as before but hey lets tack on an extra couple of bucks.

None of them used the same mold. None.

You notice the sprue they were attached to? They didn't clip those off the metals for fun. They weren't in the metal mold. Every single metal model that goes finecast needs its mold redone.

I know they do not use the same actual physical mold. I was merely saying that the sculpts were the same as the metal ones in many cases. There has been some new sculpts but most of the those were all sculpted to be in finecast from the get go.

My my personal experience: The finecast Casket of the souls was the same sculpt as the metal one but it costs more. The new liche priest was only released in finecast and does not have a metal equivalent.

My compliant was that many finecast minis sculpts are the same as their previous metal versions but are priced higher then the old metal minis.

lord_blackfang wrote:The Megaforces are worth mentioning. They seem to be very popular, I expect quite a few people will start new armies thanks to them.

Getting the Skaven Megaforce + Queek Headtaker and bam, insta-Skaven army. First foray into Fantasy.

That cost is due to having to make more molds and those molds only making 1 mini sprue at a time each. Metal molds could crank out 8-10 models at a time with relatively fast demolding times. Resin is a very different deal. That being said, it is overall a less expensive medium, and no one asked for metal to be phased out. I'm in no way defending GW with their price increases, but that is likely their "justification" about it.

You are correct that models that required no work to change to resin shouldn't have had price increases.

The year was somewhat alright, kind of a mix of the good and bad cancelling each other out.

MrFlutterPie wrote: GW direct sales. I bought an immolator from them which was shipped in a bag as loose spures with no instructions and missing the clear glass canopy. You know those instruction sheets are costing GW millions I call up GW direct to get instructions and the guy argues with me about needing instructions. I finally argue with him enough that he so graciously emails me a copy.

You should see the how exorcist arrives.
Plain brown box with immolator sprues and a smaller white box inside with the metal pieces.

Quite a good rundown, Flashman - even if it's very much "GW through the lens of Dakka" and plays unnecessarily to the Dakka peanut gallery. The gratuitous references to 'failcast', for instance (the roll-out was botched, but the quality issues have greatly diminished, and the advantages of a light resin over metal, especially for larger models, have become apparent to most). You're also overly dismissive of the Stormraven, which was nothing like as bad as certain posters here wanted it to be.

I agree with you that the Garden of Morr was a spectacular kit - I bought one and I don't even play WHFB. And for once the skulls weren't gratuitous.

Some positive trends I've identified:

- the WHFB plastic single-sprue models are a very promising step, and hopefully we'll see WH40k versions.

- the most recent codexes have all included flyers. Presumably this will continue with future codexes. Their high points cost would suggest that they're going to be better in 6th Edition.

Some negative trends (apart from the pricing issue):

- GW's expertise with plastic kit design is leading to them going a bit overboard with the fine detail. Arguably, some of the recent releases (like the DE) have tended to include parts which are very fragile and rather fiddly - underminding one of the key virtues of plastic gaming models, which is that they're relatively robust.

- the fluff in recent codexes has been so turgid and over-written that it's actually hard to read. This doesn't bode well for the 6th Edition rulebook. WH40k needs some sly humour and a bit of a wink to the reader, because taken at face value it's pretty ludicrous. The current approach to fluff is to turn everything up to 11.

MrFlutterPie wrote:My compliant was that many finecast minis sculpts are the same as their previous metal versions but are priced higher then the old metal minis.

No offense, I'm really not trying to start an efight, but you should have said sculpt. A mold is different. When you said that some had the same molds, it was not true, which is why I made my post.

C'mon Loki. It was pretty clear what he meant when he said that they were the same but cost more.


I don't think the negativity towards the Storm Raven is unjustified. It's a bad kit. It looks bad, and not because it's a flying box (all Marine vehicles are boxes - that's their 'style'). It's too short, has no real body, and looks awkward. The CHS kit really improves it (I never would've bought a Chibi-Hawk if not for the CHS conversion kit).


Overall this has been one of the most stunningly bad years for GW in recent memory (stay with me kids, the praise starts halfway through this). Price rises come and go, and we're all used to that, but the gak GW pulled this year was above and beyond. The utter contempt they have shown towards their customer base, especially their 'rest of world' customer base, and the naïve manner with which they approach the internet is just shocking from a company in 2011.

The enhanced secrecy is also plainly stupid, especially when you consider that every major release has been leaked prior to it coming out with the exception of December's releases (we knew of the upcoming Warhammer expansion, but not what it was). And the marketing hyperbole surrounding Failcost was just abominable, especially when you consider the overpriced shoddy product they delivered. I have no issue with resin. I have an issue with resin marketed as the cure to all worldy diseases.

But it's possible to ignore all the above (except the embargo), because the other soul-crushingly bad part of this year was the Grey Knight Codex. Mat Ward destroyed everything that the Grey Knights are and were, ruining an army and replacing it with utter drek. And no I'm not talking about its competitiveness on the table - I couldn't care less about how good the latest GK Netdeck list performs at a local tournament - I'm talking about the spirit of the army and what makes (or made) Grey Knights fun. It's not just Draigo. It's not just the Blood Tide. It's not just the Babycarrier - it's the sum of all these parts and more. When Codex: Grey Knights came out it killed whatever interest I had in them, almost as completely as it killed my Inquisitorial army.

I consider myself a very patient person, and it takes a lot to drain that patience. GW drained my patience this year.


Of course, in the same way that a broken clock is still right twice a day, GW did get a number of things right this year.

I think the Necron release was great. I think Ward's badly written nonsense fluff hurt the Necrons (not as badly as it hurt the GKs or BAs mind you), but I still think they emerged on the other side better than where they started. I question the need to completely retcon the C'Tan's story, but I think we got some great looking new models out of it and a booster shot to the arm for a race that was seen as many as too dull (I wouldn't call myself one of them - I like my Necrons).

Dreadfleet had pretty models. It was a complete waste of time and money on GW's part - making a game that no one asked for when they have a stack of existing games that players are chomping at the bit for - but that Arabay ship is just so darn nice lookin'!

I have a general bias towards undead, despite not playing Fantasy, and I thought the Tomb King release was great. I love the new models, especially the War Sphynx thingy. I kinda want to do a Tzeentchian Defiler using one.

Surprisingly, for an army I don't like all that much, I felt the Ogre release was quite a good one. That Gutsman guy with the chain-scythe is a fantastic model, and their big beasties are lots of fun. I love the massive cannon chariot thing. That's awesome!

But my fav release of the year, and the one and only thing I will say 'good job' to GW on this year, are the single-frame plastic characters for Fantasy. An inspired idea, I truly hope that this is the way of the future for single-pose character releases, and I hope we start seeing that show up in 40K come 6th Ed. Aside from the iffy and could-kinda-already-be-done-with-existing-plastic-kits Saurus Old Blood, the single-frame plastic minis are great. Full of character despite their limited posing, and we saw from the big thread in modelling where people converted them into 40K models, their limitations aren't really all that limiting! This range of models was a bold-step forward and in the right direction for GW, with any of the hamfisted nonsense that they usually manage to throw into every release. More shockingly, this wasn't even talked about. They spent pages of their website going over how Failcost was going to cure the blind and bring about cheap economical inter-planetary travel, when really all it was was a change over to resin to save a buck on expensive tin, but not a word was said about these fantastic new plastic models.

More of those. Less of the other thanks.

When is it we should see the financial report that reflects their sales after the June debacle?

Valkyrie wrote:Could you elaborate how the Necromancer would be the miniature of the year? Seems pretty boring to me.

Well as I said the simplicity of the design is what sold it to me (literally). It's not overly busy and restricts itself to the details that should be there, like the spellbook and staff. It also looks how a necromancer should look based on the current fluff (a lowly miserable subordinate to vampires). His face appears very old without looking like a zombie and the way the cloak flows almost protectively around the his frail body is a nice touch. Yes it has four skulls, but in this context, I believe they're justified

Tailgunner wrote:Quite a good rundown, Flashman - even if it's very much "GW through the lens of Dakka" and plays unnecessarily to the Dakka peanut gallery. The gratuitous references to 'failcast', for instance (the roll-out was botched, but the quality issues have greatly diminished, and the advantages of a light resin over metal, especially for larger models, have become apparent to most). You're also overly dismissive of the Stormraven, which was nothing like as bad as certain posters here wanted it to be.

Your constructive criticisms are noted for future reference

Pretty good summary. For me, the good that GW do is outweighed by the bad that they do, hence why I don't buy anything from them anymore. I guess that is true of a lot of posters here; its like a see-saw that reaches a certain tipping point. Sadly, from my own point of view, it seems to me that GW seem intent on pushing their customers as far as they can towards that tipping point.

Aduro wrote:When is it we should see the financial report that reflects their sales after the June debacle?

The full year's report won't be out until the back end of July 2012. There should be an "interim" bare-bones financial report of the 6 months to November 2011 out in January 2012. Comparing report turnover from the 6 months June-November 2011 with the same period in 2010 should give some idea of the impact of "mad June" on their business. Although without the detail they give in the full annual report it will still involve a lot of guestimating (for instance the international sales data will not be there).

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:The Megaforces are worth mentioning. They seem to be very popular, I expect quite a few people will start new armies thanks to them.

Actually I'd at those because checking the prices, its £130 for either of them. That's ridiculous, considering before they pulled the Megaforces off the shelves, the only 2 in stock (Orks and SM's) was £100. I'm sorry where did the extra £30 demand materialise from?

Um, the new ones have more stuff in them

WD subscribers getting their mags a week later the shops is pretty poor going for such a poor mag despite the Sisters stuff later in the year which though hit and miss is a shot in the arm at least. Still can't fathom why you can get 10 Kasrkin for £25 but a sisters squad with all the trimmings is nigh on double that.

The 40k releases seemed more divisive than the FB ones probably due to their long update times and somewhat wonky fluff updates upsetting existing players, GW really need to look at their writing standards. Also how they're going to ride out this recession which looks set to get a lot worse without losing a lot of players due to cost hikes, living standards/income have flatlined since 2002 and won't rise till 2016 in the UK according to figures out today.

Chaos Daemons player here. As usual, people seem to have forgotten that people play this army (if they even remember it exists at all). GW released a Chaos Daemons starter box, Finecast heraldry, and a Herald on Disc of Tzeentch in September. The starter box is good, not great, but good in only that it saves a little money, but the Herald on Disc of Tzeentch? Talk about pleasantly surprised! That looks fantastic, and is precisely what a lot of Daemon players have been wanting (among many other things granted, but still...) I say that September was a good year for GW. Dreadfleet, after all, may be iffy as a game, but as a collection of miniatures, terrain, and best of all that mat, I'd say it's definitely something good at least.

Oh, I forgot to talk about those daemon banners. Uuuuh, no. 3 banners for 20 dollars? Nothing new there. This seems to be yet another testament of their preference to Fantasy Daemons--They're the ones that are all about heraldry. Because of this, I feel as though this release can be more attributed to Fantasy, with the rest of 2011 feeling much the same.

Let us compare their releases, shall we?

For Fantasy: Tomb Kings, Storm of Magic, Dreadfleet, Ogres, Terrain, more Storm of Magic, more Terrain, Beastmen.

For 40k: more Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, more Dark Eldar, Necrons.
(I would say Daemons for both sides, but 1 new model and some bits simply is not enough to call it a "wave".)

This all really seems to give me the feeling that they're throwing all their money at Fantasy to save it. People are playing it less and less because it's inferior in almost every way to 40k, which is sad.

youve hit the nail on the head my freind

I'm a Tyranid player....and I'm still scratching my head.

Considering we'll probably see a Necron Wave 2 before a Tyranid Wave 2....

What a crazy idea....

Quarterdime wrote:This all really seems to give me the feeling that they're throwing all their money at Fantasy to save it. People are playing it less and less because it's inferior in almost every way to 40k, which is sad.

They emphasised Fantasy this year because this year was a Fantasy year. Next year if a 40k year, like last year. They alternate emphasising their main systems each year.

In my area many people have the same opinion of Fantasy as Quarterdime. I think that if GW gave Fantasy more support when they brought out 8th, then they would have been in better shape. One reason that they MAY have delayed the Fantasy stuff was the release of Finecast. They may not have wanted to make metal molds for things such as the Jabberslythe, Ushabti, etc. Thus those items were held back until this year. I think that GW totally mishandled Fantasy and I expect this to be evident in their financial report.

GW produced some top notch kits in 11, but they also released some lemons. Not surprisingly most armies still suffer from having key units with ugly models.

The Garden of Mor was nice, although I am sure there are people out there that would rather have GW produce models for units that do not have them.

I really hope that 6th fixes some things. I also hope that GW moves away from codicies. It is really sad to see whole armies like nids nerfed, and left to wallow for years. Either make a more balanced game, or change things up more frequently so that certain races are not useless. With the new Finecast packaging it is possible to include rules with minis.

Thank you Flash man. My take on this

The key element of this year is lots and lots of product with price increases to be sold to the shrinking customer base. Some of it was good such as the Tomb Kings and Tomb Kings in Spheees product line, but that was essentially it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't think the negativity towards the Storm Raven is unjustified. It's a bad kit. It looks bad, and not because it's a flying box (all Marine vehicles are boxes - that's their 'style'). It's too short, has no real body, and looks awkward. The CHS kit really improves it (I never would've bought a Chibi-Hawk if not for the CHS conversion kit).

Plus just a year or two back they hit it out of the park with the release of the Valkyrie. That's a flier that manages to be clearly 'imperial' in its boxy shape but also look sleek and agressive and downright plausible as an aircraft.

The Chibi just... isn't good in any way. The compartment is too small, the hurricane bolters look tacked on, the dread hanging by his head strapped to the back is just laughable, the top turret is too large... I could go on but why. It's just bad.

Yeah, the Hurricanes aren't good. I plan on giving them to a unbuilt Ba'al Predator I have. TL-Assault Cannons and Hurricane Bolters. Heheheh!

The simple change of putting a razorback turret on there instead of the turret it had would have helped immensely.

It would have helped make the turret look less ridiculous, but it wouldn't have helped with the 'lack of body' problems.

My Chibis are going to exist sans turret. And probably sans goofy dorsal-mounted drag-causing air-intake.

Which ones are the single frame plastic fantasy character kits mentioned earlier? I don't keep up with fantasy releases but am curious to see what the buzz is about.

I agree that the official storm raven look is pretty bad but it could have been even more chibi! (although this exaggerated one actually looks better as its kind of cute)



@HBMC:

I'm certainly not the first to think of it but I'd say take a look at some of the half air scoop conversions out there. The top of the storm raven looks a bit boring without anything behind the turret (especially with the Chapterhouse extension) but looks horrible with the full scoop. The best fit for me personally is somewhere in between.

warboss wrote:Which ones are the single frame plastic fantasy character kits mentioned earlier? I don't keep up with fantasy releases but am curious to see what the buzz is about.

GW has released eight of these this year and they were as follows...

Chaos Sorcerer
Tzeentch Chaos Sorcerer
Dark Elf Sorceress
Necromancer
Banshee
Wraith
Saurus Oldblood
Nurgle Chaos Lord

Here's the banshee sprue as a frame of reference...

Thanks for the review!

I'm afraid I have to agree with H.B.M.C. on this one, this year has been stunningly bad for GW. Not necessarily for miniatures, although I'm not sure I like some of the larger, toy-like monsters and the like which have come this year, but just in terms of business decisions which have affected me personally - in this situation, the ban on R.O.W. imports. Now, in a round-a-bout sort of way I can understand the reasoning for it in certain territories. And from the comments above from people in Aus and NZ, if they are happy to pay two or three times what people in the UK or US pay, then far be it from me to stop them. But, living in South Korea at the time and having spoken to other people in this part of the world (all of asia that doesn't have stores selling GW goods - i.e. most of it) that move essentially killed the hobby for them. The massive pain in the arse that asking friends and family to ship a planned orc&goblin army around the globe simply was not worth it, and so I canned the project. I'm back in the UK now, and could potentially buy the army, but my stomach for it has gone and I have since moved on to other (non-GW) projects.

Other things (like the secrecy act, price rises and finecast problems) were irritating but really have come to be expected. Fortunately, as wargamers and hobbyists there is much more out there these days, and nonchalantly swallowing whatever GW decides to feed them can be left to staff members, newcomers to the hobby.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Plus just a year or two back they hit it out of the park with the release of the Valkyrie. That's a flier that manages to be clearly 'imperial' in its boxy shape but also look sleek and agressive and downright plausible as an aircraft.
.

Absolutely, the Valkyrie is a beautiful kit, and with the FW options has a great deal of scope for customisation. My first thought of the Storm Raven was that it reminded me of a Fisher Price toy. I can only think that the designers had their hands tied in terms of number of sprues or production method.

++EDIT++ Oh and as a final gripe, the new GW paint pots are bloody terrible!

Finecast is mostly ok.

New monsters are great.

Didn't get Dreadfleet.

Dark Eldar are great. Don't care about the marines.

Forgeworld getting slept on by OP is lulz-worthy. So is the haters getting their hate on.

2011 - the year GW convinced me to switch to Infinity.

Worglock wrote:So is the haters getting their hate on.

So, so very predictable Locky. You even read any of the criticisms? What's that? You don't know what the word 'criticism' means? Let me try and explain. It's a way of having a reasoned point of view for disliking something and then explaining why you dislike something rather than saying you dislike something and not giving a reason. You often confuse it with this other concept called 'hate' which is quite perplexing really.

Don't worry though Locky - all of us here at Dakka are waiting for the day when you understand the difference.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Don't worry though Locky - all of us here at Dakka are waiting for the day when you understand the difference.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

Pacific wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Plus just a year or two back they hit it out of the park with the release of the Valkyrie. That's a flier that manages to be clearly 'imperial' in its boxy shape but also look sleek and agressive and downright plausible as an aircraft.
.

Absolutely, the Valkyrie is a beautiful kit, and with the FW options has a great deal of scope for customisation. My first thought of the Storm Raven was that it reminded me of a Fisher Price toy. I can only think that the designers had their hands tied in terms of number of sprues or production method.

I don't think GW proper can take credit for the overall aesthetic of the Valkyrie as it is pretty much a direct plastic translation of the resin Forge World version. They may get a few props for nicely translating the model to plastic but certainly not for the overall design. They get the "credit" (or, more accurately for alot of gamers, the blame) for the Storm Raven design though.

If your friend bought a book from Amazon and it came missing a bunch of pages and had a damaged cover, would you tell them to buy the Amazon Book Repair Kit consisting of glue, paper, and a pen to write by hand the missing words? Would you tell them to stop buying online and instead just buy at Barnes and Noble so they can look over every page to make sure none of the plot is missing? Somehow those "solutions" are given for Finecast's woes yet would be utterly ridiculous to 99.99% of consumers in other industries. Finecast is still a failure as long as you have to worry every time you buy a blister. I've bought over 300 metal models and never had to check for problems; until I get that level of consumer confidence in GW resin, it's an inferior product.

Aerethan wrote:That cost is due to having to make more molds and those molds only making 1 mini sprue at a time each. Metal molds could crank out 8-10 models at a time with relatively fast demolding times. Resin is a very different deal. That being said, it is overall a less expensive medium, and no one asked for metal to be phased out. I'm in no way defending GW with their price increases, but that is likely their "justification" about it.

You are correct that models that required no work to change to resin shouldn't have had price increases.

All fine and dandy if other companies, that shall remain unnamed, that also made the transition from metal to "resin" hadn't managed to do it and still lower their prices...

warboss wrote:
If your friend bought a book from Amazon and it came missing a bunch of pages and had a damaged cover, would you tell them to buy the Amazon Book Repair Kit consisting of glue, paper, and a pen to write by hand the missing words? Would you tell them to stop buying online and instead just buy at Barnes and Noble so they can look over every page to make sure none of the plot is missing? Somehow those "solutions" are given for Finecast's woes yet would be utterly ridiculous to 99.99% of consumers in other industries. Finecast is still a failure as long as you have to worry every time you buy a blister. I've bought over 300 metal models and never had to check for problems; until I get that level of consumer confidence in GW resin, it's an inferior product.

Games Workshop sells a "Finecast Repair Kit"?

This is news to me, and clearly them as nothing like that exists on their webshop.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. You're trying to be clever and referring to the Clean-Up Kit and Liquid Green Stuff as a "Finecast Repair Kit". In that case, I'd like to point out that the LGS and mold scraper actually works better for plastic models than it does resin.

I should also add that metals had problems, same as resin. People just seemingly never noticed them, aside from the flash.

Kanluwen wrote:

warboss wrote:
If your friend bought a book from Amazon and it came missing a bunch of pages and had a damaged cover, would you tell them to buy the Amazon Book Repair Kit consisting of glue, paper, and a pen to write by hand the missing words? Would you tell them to stop buying online and instead just buy at Barnes and Noble so they can look over every page to make sure none of the plot is missing? Somehow those "solutions" are given for Finecast's woes yet would be utterly ridiculous to 99.99% of consumers in other industries. Finecast is still a failure as long as you have to worry every time you buy a blister. I've bought over 300 metal models and never had to check for problems; until I get that level of consumer confidence in GW resin, it's an inferior product.

Games Workshop sells a "Finecast Repair Kit"?

This is news to me, and clearly them as nothing like that exists on their webshop.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. You're trying to be clever and referring to the Clean-Up Kit and Liquid Green Stuff as a "Finecast Repair Kit". In that case, I'd like to point out that the LGS and mold scraper actually works better for plastic models than it does resin.

I should also add that metals had problems, same as resin. People just seemingly never noticed them, aside from the flash.

Except that it was advertised as such in White Dwarf 382.

Also it is spelled "Failcost", you're getting it wrong.

PhantomViper wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

warboss wrote:
If your friend bought a book from Amazon and it came missing a bunch of pages and had a damaged cover, would you tell them to buy the Amazon Book Repair Kit consisting of glue, paper, and a pen to write by hand the missing words? Would you tell them to stop buying online and instead just buy at Barnes and Noble so they can look over every page to make sure none of the plot is missing? Somehow those "solutions" are given for Finecast's woes yet would be utterly ridiculous to 99.99% of consumers in other industries. Finecast is still a failure as long as you have to worry every time you buy a blister. I've bought over 300 metal models and never had to check for problems; until I get that level of consumer confidence in GW resin, it's an inferior product.

Games Workshop sells a "Finecast Repair Kit"?

This is news to me, and clearly them as nothing like that exists on their webshop.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. You're trying to be clever and referring to the Clean-Up Kit and Liquid Green Stuff as a "Finecast Repair Kit". In that case, I'd like to point out that the LGS and mold scraper actually works better for plastic models than it does resin.

I should also add that metals had problems, same as resin. People just seemingly never noticed them, aside from the flash.

Except that it was advertised as such in White Dwarf 382.

First off, it was in 381. The Dreadfleet issue.

Secondly they used clippers and superglue in that same piece. Does that mean those are "Finecast Repair tools"?

Also it is spelled "Failcost", you're getting it wrong.

I have no interest in perpetuating a meme which I consider downright childish. It's "Finecast" when I type it.

Kanluwen wrote:
This is news to me, and clearly them as nothing like that exists on their webshop.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. You're trying to be clever and referring to the Clean-Up Kit and Liquid Green Stuff as a "Finecast Repair Kit". In that case, I'd like to point out that the LGS and mold scraper actually works better for plastic models than it does resin.

I should also add that metals had problems, same as resin. People just seemingly never noticed them, aside from the flash.

GW suggesting that customers repair their miscast resin models with an additional purchase of Liquid Green Stuff is insulting. Models such as the ones in the multitude of finecast threads over the past 6 months should never have made it out of the factory. Kan, did you ever have to frequently post in weekly "GW metal suxx!!" threads prior to May? I don't recall seeing seeing more than a small handful of miscast metal threads on dakka over the years but I'd appreciate it if you could link to some of them because I bet I can find more finecast problem posts in the last 6 months than you can for metal figs in the past 6 years. In my personal experience of over 300 metal models, I haven't had a single miscast of the severity described in the many finecast threads (I've had some noticeable mold lines but I don't consider that to be a worthy problem for either casting material). I've examined around a dozen blisters in my FLGS where I could only see ONE side of ONE sprue (so there are bound to be more issues as I only examined 25% of those blisters) and found two of them to have easily noticeable and unacceptable flaws (extra blob of resin obscuring detail on a close combat weapon and a bubble obliterating most of the nose and eye). I've complained about plenty of things regarding GW but the quality of their metal casts was never one of them. People here aren't complaining of minor mold lines or acceptable thin flash or vents that go to flat areas devoid of detail.. the types of problems expected and normal to casting and what the Clean Up Kit is for.

Please don't obscure the legimate and verifiable significant issues with Finecast by trivializing them to the same category as mold lines.

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
This is news to me, and clearly them as nothing like that exists on their webshop.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. You're trying to be clever and referring to the Clean-Up Kit and Liquid Green Stuff as a "Finecast Repair Kit". In that case, I'd like to point out that the LGS and mold scraper actually works better for plastic models than it does resin.

I should also add that metals had problems, same as resin. People just seemingly never noticed them, aside from the flash.

GW suggesting that customers repair their miscast resin models with an additional purchase of Liquid Green Stuff is insulting. Models such as the ones in the multitude of finecast threads over the past 6 months should never have made it out of the factory.

I'm sorry where have they suggested that? They haven't. People insinuated that they have, one of the insinuations simply being the existence of Liquid Green Stuff.

I should also point out that in some instances, we've seen some Finecast models claiming to be cases of "they never should have made it out of the factory" when there was hardly any real issues, nothing that couldn't have been solved by someone spending more than five minutes on the models. Of course, we've also seen some which are completely and utterly unacceptable...but Games Workshop will replace those provided the owner contacts them.

The fact that the replacement is just as bad in some of these instances is also an issue, but a separate one. It means GW needs to get their act together with how they handle miscasts.

Kan, did you ever have to frequently post in weekly "GW metal suxx!!" threads prior to May? I don't recall seeing seeing more than a small handful of miscast metal threads on dakka over the years but I'd appreciate it if you could link to some of them because I bet I can find more finecast problem threads started in the last 6 months than you can for metal in the past 6 years. In my personal experience of over 300 metal models, I haven't had a single miscast of the severity described in the many finecast threads (I've had some noticeable mold lines but I don't consider that to be a worthy problem for either casting material).

Well since you're bringing this up:
Of course there were not many "miscast metal threads". People either returned/exchanged the product which was to this level of problems and got replacements. It was no issue there. For some reason, people seem to believe that just because the medium has changed that GW will not do replacements any more.

I've examined around a dozen blisters in my FLGS where I could only see ONE side of ONE sprue (so there are bound to more issues) and found two of them to have easily noticeable and unacceptable flaws (extra blob of resin obscuring detail on a close combat weapon and a bubble obliterating most of the nose and eye). I've complained about plenty of things regarding GW but the quality of their metal casts was never one of them. People here aren't complaining of minor mold lines or acceptable thin flash or vents that go to flat areas devoid of detail.. the types of problems expected and normal to casting and what the Clean Up Kit is for.

First off, in several cases an "extra blob of resin obscuring detail on a close combat weapon" can be removed without damaging the weapon or detail--provided you're careful with how you do it. Using a pair of clippers will damage it, but aligning it right and using a knife will work just fine.
The bubble obliterating most of the nose or eye is unacceptable.

A lot of their metal casts were absolutely horrendous. Kasrkin were a big offender in my experience, with misalignments all over the molds.

I should also make a note that these are the "first" runs of Kasrkin. I've had them since the army book dropped.

Please don't obscure the legimate and verifiable significant issues with Finecast by trivializing them to the same category as mold lines.

Then please don't obscure the legitimate and verifiable issue of Games Workshop's exchange policy has not changed.

Kanluwen wrote:
Then please don't obscure the legitimate and verifiable issue of Games Workshop's exchange policy has not changed.

No one is saying that it has, that has never been the issue.

The simple fact that most people are recomending that you don't buy failcost models online because you can't verify that the model is acceptable should be proof enough that the amount of casting problems that failcost has (even now), is much higher than those that the metal models ever had. Can you acknowledge that at least?

Sure.

But it still doesn't take into account the amount of metal models discarded or exchanged for the same defects.

Kanlewun wrote:
I'm sorry where have they suggested that? They haven't. People insinuated that they have, one of the insinuations simply being the existence of Liquid Green Stuff.

I should also point out that in some instances, we've seen some Finecast models claiming to be cases of "they never should have made it out of the factory" when there was hardly any real issues, nothing that couldn't have been solved by someone spending more than five minutes on the models. Of course, we've also seen some which are completely and utterly unacceptable...but Games Workshop will replace those provided the owner contacts them.

The fact that the replacement is just as bad in some of these instances is also an issue, but a separate one. It means GW needs to get their act together with how they handle miscasts.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/414690.page

Check out the thread and the linked blog. That's only the most recent and easily quotable source of "maybe you can just fix it with liquid green stuff?" I can think of in under 30 seconds but I've seen the apparent company line of "push liquid green stuff as a fix for finecast" several times in other threads also. Check out the thread and tell me if you think all those errors pictured should have made it out of the factory... on a new sculpt released with the latest codex... so it's not a case of "they're new with this stuff and will fix the process" like the excuse given by fanboys back in June. While I agree that some of the complaints have been a bit much (like the infamous Wayland blister "pubic hair"), there are plenty of legimate and verifiable "WTF??!?!?!" sprue pics out there.

First off, in several cases an "extra blob of resin obscuring detail on a close combat weapon" can be removed without damaging the weapon or detail--provided you're careful with how you do it. Using a pair of clippers will damage it, but aligning it right and using a knife will work just fine.
The bubble obliterating most of the nose or eye is unacceptable.

How exactly do you remove a BB sized resin snot ball off of Abaddon's sword that is covering some of the runes? Does finecast preparation in your mind include clipping off extra resin growths resembling tumors and then resculpting the detail lost underneath?



I like my liquid green stuff and bought some the week it came out but that's a tall order to fix with it. If it had been a blob of resin on a flat, featureless surface like a generic power sword, I wouldn't have classified it as an unacceptable mistake.

Then please don't obscure the legitimate and verifiable issue of Games Workshop's exchange policy has not changed.

Show me where I have stated that it changed; you're deflecting the discussion to something it isn't because it's easier to defend. The point isn't whether GW will exchange the minis but rather that you shouldn't have to go through the trouble of calling them to complain, possibly sending proof (as the gent in the thread had to do once), and then waiting to get a *hopefully* error free mini in the mail days later. (Of course, getting a replacement doesn't guarantee a miscast-free mini either.)

@Kan: I think you are distorting the issue. Metal returns have mostly been mispacks rather than miscasts. i.e. a model packed with two left legs, or missing a foot etc.

I've been a GW customer since 94. In those few years that I've worked with GW metals, the issues are largely: Flash and Mould Slip / Misalignment. While flash is merely an annoyance, mould slips can be fairly serious, I have not had any model with sufficient mould slip to necessitate a return. Missing and or mispacked parts? A handfull of returns during my time in the hobby. The major detail obliterating miscasts that we see with Finecast - I have only seen twice in my 17 years in the GW hobby - both of which were a result of metal not filling the mould - and the resulting model was missing part of an extremity.

My beef with Finecast is that while the detail level is very high as advertised, the finecast process tends to randomly miscast this detail - and due to its fine nature, is usually beyond the ability of novice-intermediate modellers to repair. On top of that, the soft material also makes this detail easy to obliterate, where as the detail is fairly sturdy on a metal model.

warboss wrote:
Check out the thread and the linked blog. That's only the most recent and easily quotable source of "maybe you can just fix it with liquid green stuff?" I can think of in under 30 seconds but I've seen the apparent company line of "push liquid green stuff as a fix for finecast" several times in other threads also.

So it's not a case of the company has actually come out and said it--it's that people have called the CSRs and been asked if they can fix it.
I don't see a problem with that. People were whining about air bubbles on flat spaces of cloaks--that's stupidly easy to fix with multiple ways to do it, even if one doesn't want to use Liquid Green Stuff. To call GW about that is simply ridiculous.

Check out the thread and tell me if you think all those errors pictured should have made it out of the factory... on a new sculpt released with the latest codex... so it's not a case of "they're new with this stuff and will fix the process" like the excuse given by fanboys back in June.

To be entirely fair:
In some cases, I'm really having to search for an error on the resin even with it circled in red. I don't generally like to look at things without running a black wash over them first so that I can see detail better and it lets you spot problems a bit easier as well, especially on resin.

While I agree that some of the complaints have been a bit much (like the infamous Wayland blister "pubic hair"), there are plenty of legimate and verifiable "WTF??!?!?!" sprue pics out there.

Agreed. Some of the casts are definitely unacceptable, but there's also plenty where people are just bitching about small problems that if they were on metal they would have said nothing about for the sake of bitching about GW. Warped swords come to mind right off the bat.

First off, in several cases an "extra blob of resin obscuring detail on a close combat weapon" can be removed without damaging the weapon or detail--provided you're careful with how you do it. Using a pair of clippers will damage it, but aligning it right and using a knife will work just fine.
The bubble obliterating most of the nose or eye is unacceptable.

How exactly do you remove a BB sized resin snot ball off of Abaddon's sword that is covering some of the runes? Does finecast preparation in your mind include clipping off extra resin growths resembling tumors and then resculpting the detail lost underneath?



I like my liquid green stuff and bought some the week it came out but that's a tall order to fix with it. If it had been a blob of resin on a flat, featureless surface like a generic power sword, I wouldn't have classified it as an unacceptable mistake.

You read my post right?
"In several cases" does not mean "in every single circumstance". If that was on a plain, unadorned blade--it wouldn't be a big deal now would it? Simple as slice it off and call it a day.

Then please don't obscure the legitimate and verifiable issue of Games Workshop's exchange policy has not changed.

Show me where I have stated that it changed; you're deflecting the discussion to something it isn't because it's easier to defend.

Actually no. I'm not deflecting at all. I'm simply reminding people that their exchange policy has not changed and that if you want to complain about things here, then why aren't you complaining about it to them too?

The point isn't whether GW will exchange the minis but rather that you shouldn't have to go through the trouble of calling them to complain, possibly sending proof (as the gent in the thread had to do once), and then waiting to get a *hopefully* error free mini in the mail days later. (Of course, getting a replacement doesn't guarantee a miscast-free mini either.)

And what was that proof the "gent in the thread had to do once"?
Send a picture. I know there are also some people who have had to take their models back to a shop to have them mailed back or other situations of that nature--but that's a big so what in my book.

Oh dear lords, how dare they! It's not like people are talking on forums about sending in reports about models with practically no errors so they can get double, no sirree.

Adam LongWalker wrote:Thank you Flash man. My take on this

The key element of this year is lots and lots of product with price increases to be sold to the shrinking customer base. Some of it was good such as the Tomb Kings and Tomb Kings in Spheees product line, but that was essentially it.

It's actually a terrible shame that the rather likable Tomb Kings release was barely noticed. GW made negligible fanfare towards the release and they 'kept it safe' so far in the advertising department that by the time the new Tomb Kings products were released, barely anyone noticed.

There were no LGS posters. There was a week of stuff on GW's site. There was no indication before the release. There was nothing. Nobody was excited about this release.

keezus wrote:@Kan: I think you are distorting the issue.

Not intentionally, I assure you. If I am, then I'll apologize to you for it--but I'm making a point that I feel needs to be made. Metal and resin are two very different mediums and what's more, it's generally easier to spot flaws on resin. There's also a few minor flaws that one might find on resin that one would not find on metal.

Metal returns have mostly been mispacks rather than miscasts. i.e. a model packed with two left legs, or missing a foot etc.

I've been a GW customer since 94. In those few years that I've worked with GW metals, the issues are largely: Flash and Mould Slip / Misalignment. While flash is merely an annoyance, mould slips can be fairly serious, I have not had any model with sufficient mould slip to necessitate a return. Missing and or mispacked parts? A handfull of returns during my time in the hobby. The major detail obliterating miscasts that we see with Finecast - I have only seen twice in my 17 years in the GW hobby - both of which were a result of metal not filling the mould - and the resulting model was missing part of an extremity.

You had far better luck with metal than I did, in terms of detail obliteration. I've had to scrape some hefty amount of extra flash attached to mouldlines off of several Kasrkin kneepads and visors lately.

My beef with Finecast is that while the detail level is very high as advertised, the finecast process tends to randomly miscast this detail - and due to its fine nature, is usually beyond the ability of novice-intermediate modellers to repair. On top of that, the soft material also makes this detail easy to obliterate, where as the detail is fairly sturdy on a metal model.

Would you agree, however, that air bubbles/pockets do not necessarily comprise something "beyond the ability of novice-intermediate modelers"?
When they completely and utterly destroy detail--there's a problem. But a small pit in the surface of a cloak or robe is not necessarily grounds for a replacement, IMO.

No matter the advertising.

Kanluwen wrote:
1) You read my post right?
"In several cases" does not mean "in every single circumstance". If that was on a plain, unadorned blade--it wouldn't be a big deal now would it? Simple as slice it off and call it a day.

2) And what was that proof the "gent in the thread had to do once"?
Send a picture. I know there are also some people who have had to take their models back to a shop to have them mailed back or other situations of that nature--but that's a big so what in my book.

Post above edited for ease of quoting...

1) I said there was an unacceptable blob of resin on a weapon and you just assumed I was whining about it being on a flat surface and that I was being unreasonable. It wasn't and I wasn't. So... in the specific example of what I saw (a blob of resin on abby's sword), do you find that an acceptable error for the finecast range?

2) LOL, only you could read a thread about a guy getting 8 replacement minis of the same miscast special character and finding problems of varying severity with all of them and get an overall take home message of "he's whining about sending a picture! hrumpf!".

@Kan: Just because customers can easily exchange defective product for new product shouldn't excuse a company from having poor QC.

Microsoft received enormous flak over their red ring issue on the FIRST THREE GENERATIONS of XBOX360, and rightfully so. The fact that they responded by extending warranty for red ring errors and each generation had successively less chance of this infamous problem (Xenon: Red ring practically guaranteed, Zephyr: Chance of red ring very high, Falcon: Problem now intermittent) doesn't somehow absolve them from not implementing enough QC from the get go.

Absolutionis wrote:It's actually a terrible shame that the rather likable Tomb Kings release was barely noticed. GW made negligible fanfare towards the release and they 'kept it safe' so far in the advertising department that by the time the new Tomb Kings products were released, barely anyone noticed.

I dunno, I think they got about the same coverage in WD as Ogre Kingdoms and Orcs & Arachnaroks.. I agree TK was a pretty good army release, but I was disappointed they didn't scale the skeletons to match the VC ones, simply because they couldn't be bothered to release a new TK themed Skeleton Warrior set. Now that Tomb Guard are set at the old scale with amazing models that will age very well, it looks like VC and TK will have different sized skeletons for quite some time. This kind of thing is irritating and actually put me off collecting TK in the end.

Shame because everything else really appealed to me.

@Kan: I agree 100% that small bubbles are not an issue. There is a growing trend however, to clutter models with as much fine detail as possible. As bubble placement is pretty much random due to the process, any area that's not flat armor or cloak is usually going to cause moderate to unfixable damage. Blobs of resin resulting from damaged moulds compounds the problem as it usually affects surrounding areas, especially as its areas in crevaces that tend to tear most on the moulds. Just looking in the Necron Overlord thread, while a lot of the damage is fixable, the persistent miscasts around the chest and knee areas are very bad and symptomatic of a problem in their process.

In my experience, with flash on metals, while it is detail obscuring, you can always scrape around them carefully. Unless its on an extremity, extraneous resin would seem to be a more serious problem. I actually find partial mould slippage on metals the most frustrating as it usually requires sanding and then a thin layer of GS to totally fix. I've had serious problems with some of PP's metals as they are VERY brittle. For the longest time I just let the detail break and then I fixed it by pinning. However, my new solution is to let the stress cracks form and then superglue the cracked areas ensuring that the cracks are totally filled. This seems to fix it quite nicely without pinning.

-edit- On topic: While GW has put out a lot of cool stuff this year, the high prices coupled with my distaste for the current core rulesets has stopped me from investing heavily in new armies, with all the kits that might have interested me as one-off projects being priced at $60cdn+ At that price, I just can't justify the impulse buy. If they would reduce the SKULLIFICATION of all their fantasy terrain, I would have bought a few more pieces.

keezus wrote:@Kan: Just because customers can easily exchange defective product for new product shouldn't excuse a company from having poor QC.

Microsoft received enormous flak over their red ring issue on the FIRST THREE GENERATIONS of XBOX360, and rightfully so. The fact that they responded by extending warranty for red ring errors and each generation had successively less chance of this infamous problem (Xenon: Red ring practically guaranteed, Zephyr: Chance of red ring very high, Falcon: Problem now intermittent) doesn't somehow absolve them from not implementing enough QC from the get go.

If we're going to get into this, they also identified the problems and advised people how to handle them. In many cases, the overheating problem was caused by people leaving inadequate space for the 360's vents to blow out. That caused the hot air to be pushed back in and melt a key component.
Was it poor design? Oh yeah. It's not necessarily QC though. It was bad R&D.

On that note though: I had one of the first generation 360s and it finally died right when Modern Warfare 2 was releasing. They exchanged my 360 for the "MW2 Console", which has to be at least 3 years old now. It's going quite strong still.

Warboss wrote:Post above edited for ease of quoting...

1) I said there was an unacceptable blob of resin on a weapon and you just assumed I was whining about it being on a flat surface and that I was being unreasonable. It wasn't and I wasn't. So... in the specific example of what I saw (a blob of resin on abby's sword), do you find that an acceptable error for the finecast range?

No, I assumed that you didn't read my post. You see how I said "some cases"? That's not a code or foreign language. It's English for "does not mean all cases". In the case of Abbadon, a blob of resin on the sword obscuring the rune(assuming it can't be sliced off without damaging the rune) is unacceptable.

If it's just a loose bit of resin that when it comes off leaves the rune intact, it's acceptable. I've had a few cases of FW stuff like this, where I've had a loose chunk of resin on a fine detail piece and when looking at it from an angle realized it was only attached to a central location within the detail itself meaning it would come off without damaging the model. Lietpoldt the Black immediately springs to mind. One of the skeletal fish on his steed's barding had a piece of resin attached to it, but slicing it off left no mark.
Then again I might be magical since it seems I'm the only person who can think of doing this without calling for a replacement...

2) LOL, only you could read a thread about a guy getting 8 replacement minis of the same miscast special character and finding problems of varying severity with all of them and get an overall take home message of "he's whining about sending a picture! hrumpf!".

"Problems of varying severity" is about as meaningful as "some cases". We also only saw the most recent models, and I can't be arsed to dig through someone's blog to find earlier references to the problem.

Flashman wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:It's actually a terrible shame that the rather likable Tomb Kings release was barely noticed. GW made negligible fanfare towards the release and they 'kept it safe' so far in the advertising department that by the time the new Tomb Kings products were released, barely anyone noticed.

I dunno, I think they got about the same coverage in WD as Ogre Kingdoms and Orcs & Arachnaroks.. I agree TK was a pretty good army release, but I was disappointed they didn't scale the skeletons to match the VC ones, simply because they couldn't be bothered to release a new TK themed Skeleton Warrior set. Now that Tomb Guard are set at the old scale with amazing models that will age very well, it looks like VC and TK will have different sized skeletons for quite some time. This kind of thing is irritating and actually put me off collecting TK in the end.

Perhaps so, but I'm not even being a hater when I say that White Dwarf is not worth it. Nobody in my area has the subscription to the magazine. GW should realize that White Dwarf is a valid method of advertisement, but it costs money and should not be their primary method of advertisement.

Kanluwen wrote:If we're going to get into this, they also identified the problems and advised people how to handle them. In many cases, the overheating problem was caused by people leaving inadequate space for the 360's vents to blow out. That caused the hot air to be pushed back in and melt a key component.
Was it poor design? Oh yeah. It's not necessarily QC though. It was bad R&D.

Where I work, R&D is subject to QA/QC as well. I'm sure if Microsoft's QA/QC departement had their way, they would never have alowed the suits to rush the product to market. However the bean counters figured that the cost of repairs was a reasonable cost to achieve greater market share. Judging by the ongoing (intermittent) issues with finecast, I think that their fabrication process has a way to go before it reaches the same level of reliability that their traditional metal, resin and plastic counterparts share. I remeber a period when there was a lot of variability with GW's plastic mix, and you'd get some kits with really light coloured sprues, and some with darker grey sprues. Usually, the light coloured almost white sprues would have really soft and sometimes indistinct details. However, they seem to have ironed this out and now all their sprues are the darker grey. I'm sure that the finecast issues should also eventually get ironed out.

I agree that you can't idiot proof everything. The scratch disc issue that the 360 has is usually caused by idiots moving the damn thing while it is running. While it is an issue, it's more of a user caused one akin to accidentlly destroying detail on a model while scraping off flash.

Kanluwen wrote:
On that note though: I had one of the first generation 360s and it finally died right when Modern Warfare 2 was releasing. They exchanged my 360 for the "MW2 Console", which has to be at least 3 years old now. It's going quite strong still.

I'm actually on my 7th xbox 360 in 5 years. The first didn't power up OUT OF THE BOX on the day after Christmas (the most disappointing Xmas present I ever got myself!). The next 3 were replaced in store with Best Buy's extra $$ warranty program (the only time I've ever bought it), the 5th through Microsofts 3 year warranty extension, and the final one 2 months ago out of the warranty for which I paid $100. If it breaks again, I won't be paying again for a replacement and will just wait it out for the next generation of consoles (or maybe get one of those onlive thingies for free with a game).

Did anyone buy the FC Daemon Banners? No? Thought not.

Huge fail in my opinion, as was the FC Herald on Disc. £12 for a pack of 3 banners and £22.50 for a greenstuffed Pog with a horror on it. Awesome.

GW this year for me:
Single frame plastic fantasy models, Ogre release, Sneaky Stabbas.

Fluff for the new 40K codices, hardback fantasy books, Fantasy Release Schedule

Secrecy campaign, Storm of Magic (rules and monsters).

Southern Hemisphere Embargo, Finecast, WD

Kanluwen wrote:Sure.

But it still doesn't take into account the amount of metal models discarded or exchanged for the same defects.

It's true that GW metal models were certainly lower quality than most other companies', in terms of QA (due to hurried casting), however they were still (A) very good and (B) better than Finecast.

That's only my personal experience of course. I've never bought any Finecast models, only gone to look at them in the shop. However, it does not surprise me to find people complaining about the poor quality of Finecast.

Kilkrazy wrote:It's true that GW metal models were certainly lower quality than most other companies', in terms of QA (due to hurried casting), however they were still (A) very good and (B) better than Finecast.

That's only my personal experience of course. I've never bought any Finecast models, only gone to look at them in the shop. However, it does not surprise me to find people complaining about the poor quality of Finecast.

Mo offense intended here, but if you haven't ever worked with a finecast model, how can you say in your experience they are worse than metals? You have no experience with them.

Personally, I've bought 5. The only one that had problems was a Venomthrope. It had a large gap left in the carapace after I stuck the chimneys on and has some bad casting on the tentacles under the head. By rights I should have returned it. I didn't because I wanted to practice reparing resin models (I'm starting to order more Forgeworld stuff, so practicing on a cheaper Venomthrope seemed a good idea). My pairs of Zoanthropes and Hive Guard are fine, and vastly easier to work with than than metal models even just from a construction point of view. A little super glue and they're done, and they aren't breaking any time soon.

My only real problem was the Zoanthropes bending where the tail meets the capillary tower. I ended up cutting them off it and pinning them to resin bases. Even after that, I can't imagine ever wanting them as metal.

I have the experience of going to the GW shop and playing around with the models with the shop manager as he built some of them.

I also looked at a bunch of models in the window and in their bubble packets.

That was enough to convince me I did not need to pay the extra for lots of moulding defects.

The point isn't that Finecast is as bad as metal but cheaper. The point is that it is worse and more expensive.

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
On that note though: I had one of the first generation 360s and it finally died right when Modern Warfare 2 was releasing. They exchanged my 360 for the "MW2 Console", which has to be at least 3 years old now. It's going quite strong still.

I'm actually on my 7th xbox 360 in 5 years. The first didn't power up OUT OF THE BOX on the day after Christmas (the most disappointing Xmas present I ever got myself!). The next 3 were replaced in store with Best Buy's extra $$ warranty program (the only time I've ever bought it), the 5th through Microsofts 3 year warranty extension, and the final one 2 months ago out of the warranty for which I paid $100. If it breaks again, I won't be paying again for a replacement and will just wait it out for the next generation of consoles (or maybe get one of those onlive thingies for free with a game).

Well fair play for your tenacity, I replaced mine with a PS3 after the first failure (I presume an acid-filled vial opening, on a timer, inside the machine after it was a short distance out of warranty).

I also admire Kanluwen's tenacity for taking his usual position of managing to call a spade everything else except actually a spade

Put simply, in the 20 years + I have been collecting miniatures, and this goes over hundreds of cases, I have not once had to return a miniature to the store because it contained a defect.
This is simply not the case with GW's resin, even though QC has apparently improved somewhat.

Kilkrazy wrote:The point is that it is worse and more expensive.

To you.

I've found it better. For chunky, heavy metal models like Hive Guard, I don't need to pin and/or use green stuff on the joints to prevent it falling apart. For top heavy models like I don't need to go find something heavy to weigh the base with. Converting? Please. I'm aching for the Lahmian vampires to be redone in finecast so I can very easily carve the backs of the headdress off so I can sculpt hair onto them.

I'll put up with opening a model at the store to look for a defect or two so I can return it on the spot and occasional weird but solvable problems like my Zoanthropes any day to not have to work with metal ever again. Not to mention not having a figure case that weighs a solid tonne.

Pacific wrote:

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
On that note though: I had one of the first generation 360s and it finally died right when Modern Warfare 2 was releasing. They exchanged my 360 for the "MW2 Console", which has to be at least 3 years old now. It's going quite strong still.

I'm actually on my 7th xbox 360 in 5 years. The first didn't power up OUT OF THE BOX on the day after Christmas (the most disappointing Xmas present I ever got myself!). The next 3 were replaced in store with Best Buy's extra $$ warranty program (the only time I've ever bought it), the 5th through Microsofts 3 year warranty extension, and the final one 2 months ago out of the warranty for which I paid $100. If it breaks again, I won't be paying again for a replacement and will just wait it out for the next generation of consoles (or maybe get one of those onlive thingies for free with a game).

Well fair play for your tenacity, I replaced mine with a PS3 after the first failure (I presume an acid-filled vial opening, on a timer, inside the machine after it was a short distance out of warranty).

While certainly inconvienent, the first 4 repairs were "instant" since I had a store warranty and just walked in to exchange it for a new one. The 5th repair took a month but was free... It's only the last one where I had to actually pay that started to really get me angry. On another completely unrelated side note to this thread, the constant failures have prevented me from finishing KOTOR as I've had to replay the Taris and Dantooine so many times that I'm sick of them (as my game save didn't work with other xboxes for some reason and had to start over each time... grumble). :( I guess I do know how those people who constantly get bad casts over and over feel.

Absolutionis wrote:

Adam LongWalker wrote:Thank you Flash man. My take on this

The key element of this year is lots and lots of product with price increases to be sold to the shrinking customer base. Some of it was good such as the Tomb Kings and Tomb Kings in Spheees product line, but that was essentially it.

It's actually a terrible shame that the rather likable Tomb Kings release was barely noticed. GW made negligible fanfare towards the release and they 'kept it safe' so far in the advertising department that by the time the new Tomb Kings products were released, barely anyone noticed.

There were no LGS posters. There was a week of stuff on GW's site. There was no indication before the release. There was nothing. Nobody was excited about this release.

Yea I thought that to be odd as well, but I got a Tomb king army only to find out that not many people play fantasy anymore much in my area. 8th Ed really got people miffed about the game. The Necrons I'm please with as well, but I'm waiting on the FAQ's to tone down those WAAC's people with their insane builds. Then I might build a brand new Necron army.

People with money are shifting over to other game systems, not just the people who are leaving GW because of the expense. I purchased the WM starter box set and I'm really please on what you get for your money. I believe people are just getting tired of the GW company tactics. I do vote with my wallet and though I do like manager of the Local GW store, more and more of my money are going to Indie stores with different gaming product because of corporate policy.

The 'you can just return it' arguments are a bunch of bull. Having to return somthing creates an opportunity cost, costing time and effort, not to mention gas to get there. Having to break the models open at the store means they're harder to bring back home and more likely to lose a piece/get damaged.

The 'you can just fix it' arguments are a bunch of bull as well. For the amount that they charge and the marketing behind the products all going off about how they are the best thing ever and the finest quality minuatures...You shouldn't need to spent extra time and materials fixing them even if it is something 'easy' to do...

Howard A Treesong wrote:The Dreadknight was probably the worse miniature that comes to mind, some of the GK fluff the worst published this year.

Forgeworld did some good work again this year, as usual.

Dreadfleet was a waste. Finecast awful. The price increase and the way they shafted those living in the outer territories. The way GW pressed ahead with litigation against CHS.

It's been a year of dumb.

Are you kidding me?

The thread's about looking back at GW's performance this year... and has turned into Kan doggedly defending GW against the legitimate, widespread and well documented failures of Finecost.

No. I'm not surprised.

Quarterdime wrote:Chaos Daemons player here. As usual, people seem to have forgotten that people play this army (if they even remember it exists at all). GW released a Chaos Daemons starter box, Finecast heraldry, and a Herald on Disc of Tzeentch in September. The starter box is good, not great, but good in only that it saves a little money, but the Herald on Disc of Tzeentch? Talk about pleasantly surprised! That looks fantastic, and is precisely what a lot of Daemon players have been wanting (among many other things granted, but still...)

As a Daemon player who plays primarily Tzeentch I was really excited to hear about the Herald on Disc release...only to see the model and be thoroughly dissapointed with the entire look of it, from the herald to the disc, not to mention the steep price for the model also.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The thread's about looking back at GW's performance this year... and has turned into Kan doggedly defending GW against the legitimate, widespread and well documented failures of Finecost.

No. I'm not surprised.

And H.B.M.C. arrives to tactfully comment on this Kan's actions*.

No. I'm not surprised.



*To clarify, I do disagree with Kan's defence of Finecast.

Just Dave wrote: this Kan's actions*.

You mean there's multiple Kans?

Oh my.

I like working with finecase: it's lighter, holds detail amazingly well, and doesn't shatter when dropped.

The problem is the need I had to work with it to correct casting flaws. Products that are easy to repair are great, but not if they arrive broken!

I realized how little new GW I actually bought this year: a metal Draigo, a Finecast Libby, and a few codexes. I do have a finecast Lord of Change I'm eager to check out that I won for hard boys. Hopefully that'll be in good shape.

All in all, I give Finecast a C+. While it's a higher quality product for centerpiece models, both in terms of detail and conversion potential, the QC issues and the increased cost make the models far less impressive for anything bought in numbers.

C+ is pretty darn generous.

Well, it's hard to compare multiple grades. The products that are properly cast are A grade in terms of quality. The value for the price and quality control are both much lower, and are also intrinsicly combined.

If you are a modeller, and are looking for the best models on the market, than Finecast offers great detail that's easy to work with at a market premium. You get two good things for one bad thing. If you are a gamer looking to build a squad, than finecase costs more a good chance that you will need to get replacement parts from any box.

So, in short, it's a B+ at worst to pure modellers, and a D+ at best for pure gamers (who gain few advantages but pay more). Averaging the two is about a C+.

The release of the year for me was Grey Knights.

I have no intention of fielding a Grey Knights army, but I LOVED the Terminator and PA kits. So much so, I've gone a bit overboard making Deathwatch Black Templars to sprinkle in my existing army.

Also (and I'm prepared to be called whatever name I get for this), I really enjoyed reading the Grey Knights fluff.

There, I said it.

On the flip side, the Trade/Sales Embargo, more than anything else this year, really pisses me off. Even though it doesn't affect me (Thank you, WarStore), it's a real kick to the nuts for Australian and New Zealand players. Rest of the World, too I suppose.

Polonius wrote:Well, it's hard to compare multiple grades. The products that are properly cast are A grade in terms of quality. The value for the price and quality control are both much lower, and are also intrinsicly combined.

If you are a modeller, and are looking for the best models on the market, than Finecast offers great detail that's easy to work with at a market premium. You get two good things for one bad thing. If you are a gamer looking to build a squad, than finecase costs more a good chance that you will need to get replacement parts from any box.

So, in short, it's a B+ at worst to pure modellers, and a D+ at best for pure gamers (who gain few advantages but pay more). Averaging the two is about a C+.

Sounds fair. I do agree that if castings would be correct they would get an A+.

Now, on to an even more puzzling release: Dreadfleet. It seems to continue GW's bizarre aversion to actually selling product that people want. They made a lot of money selling hobby games in the 90's when hardly anybody played hobby games. Now that the market has exploded, they've released two limited edition boxed games. Given their vault of games, access to markets, and sculpting talent, you'd think it'd be a no brainer. I'm sure there's a reason we don't know... but it's still weird.

Anyway, compared to Space Hulk, Dreadfleet is in every way a disappointment. I didn't buy it, as I see no need to paint the models, play the game, or speculate that hte price will rise. Also, unlike Space Hulk, I couldn't uset he models in another system, or engage in nostalgia because I remember an earlier edition.

So... what exactly was the market for this game? I guess it's still a top notch hobby game that cashes in on the pirate craze. So it's got that going for it. And by all accounts it's a fun game. I just dont' need it. Or really want it. I don't even want to want it (unlike space hulk).

Great thread--nice to see it broken out like that.

Awesome reviews man! I had a great time reading it and agree with most of it.

Polonius wrote:Now, on to an even more puzzling release: Dreadfleet. It seems to continue GW's bizarre aversion to actually selling product that people want. They made a lot of money selling hobby games in the 90's when hardly anybody played hobby games. Now that the market has exploded, they've released two limited edition boxed games. Given their vault of games, access to markets, and sculpting talent, you'd think it'd be a no brainer. I'm sure there's a reason we don't know... but it's still weird.

Anyway, compared to Space Hulk, Dreadfleet is in every way a disappointment. I didn't buy it, as I see no need to paint the models, play the game, or speculate that hte price will rise. Also, unlike Space Hulk, I couldn't uset he models in another system, or engage in nostalgia because I remember an earlier edition.

So... what exactly was the market for this game? I guess it's still a top notch hobby game that cashes in on the pirate craze. So it's got that going for it. And by all accounts it's a fun game. I just dont' need it. Or really want it. I don't even want to want it (unlike space hulk).

I agree completely. That fact is compounded as well by the number of high-quality board games and all-in-one boxsets available from other manufacturers. If it was released into an empty marketplace then I might well consider picking up Dreadfleet, even if the concept didn't appeal to me that much, but as it stands I would probably put at least half a dozen other games on my 'to buy' list before I would even consider buying GW's offering.

On the other hand, had GW released practically any one of its back-catalogue (with the exception perhaps of, funnily enough, Man-o-War) then I would have snapped it up in a heartbeat as I did Space Hulk. I would love to see a re-imagining of something like Tyranid Attack, with dynamically posed scouts and a range of Nid nasties. Bolster it up with some new artwork and the thing would sell-out in no time at all I'm sure.