How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

The loss of his arms has clouded Abbaddon's better judgment.

The Crusader wrote:How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

And what makes you think he is sane/rational?

Last time i checked the 12. Black Crusade happened far away from Cadia and the 13. Black Crusade is going quite well.
Whatever the Despoiler plans, atm it looks as if he has a real chance to succeed.

He is very silly... and he tells bad jokes.

I thought the invasion of Cadia is a necessity for Chaos to get a foothold OUT of the Eye of Terror. Establishing a stronghold planet anywhere else in the proximity to the Eye of Terror for Chaos to make their raids and invasions would be almost impossible with Cadia breathing down their necks.
Ergo, it would seem taking hold of the most valuable planet in the region would seem a task worth undertaking.

His failure to do so at least 12 times is a different matter though.

If you read the fiction the books all say the Black Crusade is doing quite well.

The Crusader wrote:How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

You're assuming that Cadia itself was under direct assault and was intended to be taken rather than merely bypassed each time, and that, at last count, the forces of Chaos were ascendent on Cadia. Each of Abaddon's crusades has been building on the previous ones, becoming more and more devastating, but they have not had the aim of destroying the Imperium utterly and reaching Terra with each one, that Black Crusade has yet to come.

Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

CuddlySquig wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

The true result was that the BC was a total success.

Also I'm sure that the constant death and horrible pain these crusades cost please the chaos gods to no end. I'm sure they will get bored of this stalemate though and throw abbadon a bone to give him that final nudge he needs.

It has been retconned by GW that all the preceding Black Crusades were a master plan by Abaddon to drain the Imperium's resources so that they wouldn't be able to resist the 13th. Though yeah, the Black Crusades results have been lacking to say the least. He still hasn't moved past Cadia yet, and it's total stalemate there. Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

Anyway, the Cadian PDF doesn't have hundreds of billions. The entire population of Cadia is only around 1 billion with 75% of the population under arms, so about 750,000,000 Cadian Interior Guard/Youth Army/Shock Troops/Kasrkin

Harriticus wrote:I Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

How much do you know about the Storm of Chaos campaign?

Another thing that nudges my mind is that Abaddon still isn't a daemon prince.

purplefood wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

The true result was that the BC was a total success.

Having a slight control on the ground but zero control in space isn't much of a success, bombardment and lack of supplies will end the forces on the ground.

Harriticus wrote:It has been retconned by GW that all the preceding Black Crusades were a master plan by Abaddon to drain the Imperium's resources so that they wouldn't be able to resist the 13th. Though yeah, the Black Crusades results have been lacking to say the least. He still hasn't moved past Cadia yet, and it's total stalemate there. Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

Anyway, the Cadian PDF doesn't have hundreds of billions. The entire population of Cadia is only around 1 billion with 75% of the population under arms, so about 750,000,000 Cadian Interior Guard/Youth Army/Shock Troops/Kasrkin

Still, 750 million soldiers thats not including tanks and air support is one massive army. You also have to remember that there are several Marine Chapters supporting the Cadian gate along with other Guard regiments. According to Grey Knight books most of the Grey Knight force is also supporting Cadia.

Oh and there is the biggest battle fleet the Imperium can muster up in space.

Very

People got to remember though that the Forces of Chaos after the Heresy, lost most of their planets capable of mass weapons production, and basically been force to scavge for supplys to even begin a large scal attack on the IOM.

He's not silly, its not his fault Creed keeps sending him letter baneblades and showing up uninvited.

It may be his bad habit of killing anyone who looks at him.

Kind of makes it hard to find decent advisors.

This is why it is well past time for a saner, smarter, more powerful person to take over.

DOOMRIDER FOR WARMASTER!

Here we have a man who literally RIDES DOOM, I mean that's gotta be better than having a big catchers mitt and a really hard to spell sword.

Look at it the other way. He hasn't failed 13 times. He has found 13 ways not to invade cadia.

I personally don't understand all of the Abbadon hate, in my opinion he has been rather successful. There have been 13 black crusades, but not all were meant to destroy the imperium. The 12th, I believe, was to capture the blackstone fortresses in the gothic sector and was a success. If I remember correctly, the initial black crusades were mainly to unite the legions and stop them from destroying each other. In addition, the reason that the Cadian Gate is so well protected is because it is the only stable route out of the Eye of Terror. The simple fact that the imperium must expend so many resources (entire battlefleets, billions of guardsmen, 25+ space marine chapters) just to keep Abbadon penned in the Eye tells me he is doing something right.

its mostly because Haters gotta hate.

Its the same reason people make fun of Roboat Girlyman and Papa Smurf.


Abbaddon and Papa Smurf get alot of hate, and yet they actually have pretty solid rules in the game.

Come on, now; we know why the hate: it's the pony tail.

its not a pony tail.

its a carefully groomed Hair Squig

It's a ponytail that defies the laws of gravity.

CuddlySquig wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:
Also, lets be real here. These are the forces of Chaos, the physical manifestation of nightmares and the unpossible. Why should they always have to make sense?

Because you're more efficient when you make sense. Sanity is for the weak? Maybe, but sanity is also for those who want to get things done. Feeding your irreplaceable Heresy-veteran buddies into 12 wars of attrition just so you can do it again ten thousand years later is a very bad idea. Even then, the 13th Black Crusade was described as a "minor victory" in the White Dwarf article its results were published in and Abaddon's ultimate plan was unsuccessful.

CSM #1: Alright, we've blown up a prison planet, sacked a few places and now we're stuck on Cadia. The Imperium still holds the air and they actually defeated us in some theaters.
CSM #2: Right. So, the crusade's over?
CSM #1: I guess so.
CSM #2: ...
CSM #1: ...
CSM #2: We waited ten thousand years for this?

The Black Crusades were not simply wars of attrition, and they had specific objectives which were usually attained (e.g. securing the blackstone fortresses), they left off the 13th on a cliffhanger in favor of the forces of Chaos.

And what the forces of Chaos may deem victory is not always necessarily what it may seem to be...

Again, realm of of the unpossible here.

But they were all conventional wars. And Abaddon cannot replace the cream of his forces. Abaddon is one of those characters who is pumped up to be cool, but when you think about it rationally his whole concept starts to fall apart. No wonder he's not a daemon prince.

There are no laws in the Eye of Terror!

CuddlySquig wrote:But they were all conventional wars. And Abaddon cannot replace the cream of his forces. Abaddon is one of those characters who is pumped up to be cool, but when you think about it rationally his whole concept starts to fall apart. No wonder he's not a daemon prince.

His application is being held up by paperwork, and you know there's paperwork in Hell.

He's been offered several times and has refused several times.

Noticed how the Daemon Primarches don't do so much anymore? That's because it's hard for Daemons to leave the Eye and remain corporeal and stable.

I get it: he doesn't want a daemonhood to get in the way of his career.

BrainDeleted wrote:He's been offered several times and has refused several times.

Noticed how the Daemon Primarches don't do so much anymore? That's because it's hard for Daemons to leave the Eye and remain corporeal and stable.

That's what he wants you to think. In the real, it's because he's an armless failure.

BrainDeleted wrote:He's been offered several times and has refused several times.

Noticed how the Daemon Primarches don't do so much anymore? That's because it's hard for Daemons to leave the Eye and remain corporeal and stable.

I can see this as a valid reason. +1

@Vaktathi is that why the forces of chaos always ended up on Cadia?

He is also silly to get into attritional warfare with the IG.

And I'm not saying this one won't work it's just that by now, Abaddon would have lost the needed momentum to beat guard forces

Not all the Black Crusades have been about Cadia, in most instances they have had to attack Cadia as it's the fortress world that's there to stop them from leaving the Eye.



The first failed but Abaddon recovered Drach'nyen, the Fourth saw El'phanor destroyed, the Seventh could have had the Imperium by the balls as they didn't know where the forces of Chaos went, as they just disappeared, also slaughtering Blood Angels at Mackan and the 12th He captured the Blackstones.

Abaddon has an eternity to set his plans in order before he makes an attack on Terra, I don't think he's as much fail as everyone thinks he is

The reason why he isn't a Daemon Prince yet, look what happens to Daemon Princes all the time, M'kar banished, Angron banished, Magnus banished. Whilst he's mortal - ish he has the freedom to do what he wants. Daemon Primarchs also don't seem that bothered in the day to day dealings of a Chaos Marine anymore.

*enlisting in Abbadon's 14th crusade*
"Hey, why hasn't this worked the last 13 times?"
"Blood for the blood god!"
"Sounds reasonable..."

Pilau Rice wrote:
The reason why he isn't a Daemon Prince yet, look what happens to Daemon Princes all the time, M'kar banished, Angron banished, Magnus banished. Whilst he's mortal - ish he has the freedom to do what he wants. Daemon Primarchs also don't seem that bothered in the day to day dealings of a Chaos Marine anymore.

It's not even that. The REAL reason is due to a power far greater than the Chaos Gods: Games Workshop. Sometimes fluff writes the rules, but sometimes rules write the fluff. In this case, it's the latter. When they wrote Abaddon, they could not make a daemon prince independent character as powerful as him without unbalancing the Chaos codex, but they still needed an alpha male for the chaos marines.

Heck, it goes even further than that. The reason Abaddon had 12 other black crusades was so the 13th Black Crusade could be the THIRTEENTH Black Crusade for the Eye of Terror worldwide campaign. Because you know, thirteen's a scary number. So GW wrote both "Abaddon's a man" and "this worldwide campaign is the 13th Crusade" and then had to hogwash up reasons why these two facts were so. In doing so, they inadvertently made Abaddon look like the biggest tool in the galaxy.

The Crusader wrote:How many times do you have to assault a planet fortress of doom to figure out that it isn't working
According to Abaddon, 13 at least

Seriously? Cadia has possibly the best defences owned by the IoM, along with what seems to be a PDF numbering in the hundreds of billions, various SM chapters around the Eye of Terror, and a battlefleet so vast it makes you wonder how many planets were mined dry to make it. And Abaddon has yet to figure out that attacking this monster of a fortress isn't a good idea

Looks like you have yet to figure out that the Cadian gate, which is what Abaddon is trying to take, is the safest passage out of the Eye of Terror. So if Abaddon takes Cadia, he can march the Legions out with gay abandon, raiding at will and making a course for Terra.
Also, as a few people have stated, around half of the Black Crusades weren't attacks on Cadia, the best example being when Abaddon decided he wanted a new Summer home after he got sick of the funny smell the Planet Killer had on deck, so he set his sights on a Blackstone fortress.

Also, 13 crusades in 10,000 years? That's not bad really. And since time flows differently in the Warp, maybe it's all just one Crusade that's lasted about a fortnight from Abaddon's point of view, we may never know.

They're Chaos. They don't care which way is safest to go.

He also exits the warp to actually fight.

Personally I think its his ponytail telling him to do it

CuddlySquig wrote:But they were all conventional wars. And Abaddon cannot replace the cream of his forces.

well technically.....he could with aid of the warp, simply resurrect em back in the eye

The Crusader wrote:They're Chaos. They don't care which way is safest to go.

The followers of Chaos generally don't want to die, so yes, they do care which way is safer. That's why Abaddon attacks Cadia. He needs the Gate to be able to properly mount a campaign against the Imperium.

I love how it's usually presented as Abaddon being hugely incompetent rather than the far larger and more unified Imperium actually doing something right.

Lol, first thought reading this threads title, "..on second thought, let's not visit the Eye, 'tis a silly place..."

GW cannot make Abaddon win because it would destroy it's best selling army.

CuddlySquig wrote:

Harriticus wrote:I Recently reading the latest codex of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos I am much more impressed by Acheron then Abaddon. The former is a true pimp.

How much do you know about the Storm of Chaos campaign?

Another thing that nudges my mind is that Abaddon still isn't a daemon prince.

Abaddon has been offered daemonhood many, many times but has refused it. Maybe he does not want to become a complete slave to anyone?

That and as mentioned before as a daemon it would be more difficult to enter realspace.

Right now he has no leah and he is really damn strong, however if he becomes a daemon he will be several times stronger but suddenly have a leash.....

Aren't Black Crusades causing the Imperium tremendous grief and pain? I mean, the Chaos and Havoc caused has pretty much feed the Chaos Gods and given Abaddon more strength. He's pretty good for a Chaos Warlord Except for his pony tail which has probably stopped him from seeing most things, also if the Chaos Forces on Cadia where to be joined up with a 14th Crusade, imagine the amount of Chaos Servants assaulting Cadia then.

Hey hey now... that tainted and unclean ponytail gives him the extra +1 Toughness!

Abbaddon's problem is that he has Fabius Bile as his Hair Dresser.

Id hate to see what it turned into if he was a daemon..

A sentient daemon weapon most likely.

Pretty sure i read on lexicanum that most of the crusades were led by abaddon. So that means that he hasn't "failed" as many times as most make out.

He still was overall commander if them all though, which placed the blame on his shoulders

If one thing is true about Chaos armies and their leaders...they're never random, everything they do is for a reason.

Abaddon may have lead those previous crusades purely as a test of the IoM's forces, to collect slaves/artefacts/other nastiness. Now he's got a foothold on the one planet the IoM has never let him have a foothold on.

Of course the Imperial Navy owns the space around Cadia making it a one-sided fight anyway.

nomotog wrote:Look at it the other way. He hasn't failed 13 times. He has found 13 ways not to invade cadia.

Best way to put it ^

Hey, I've got a question... If Abbadon isn't stupid for attacking Cadia, because he needs Cadia to be able to attack the rest of the Imperium...

How has he led 12 Black Crusades against the rest of the Imperium WITHOUT first taking Cadia?

If Abbadon isn't a failure for not being able to take Cadia, because 12 of his Crusades were succesful in attacking other areas, why is he trying to take Cadia at all? He got 12 Black Crusades past it successfuly! Why is he wasting time/men/resources on attacking it? If he can move 12 Crusades past Cadia, why can't he move one right up to the Goldne Throne?

And you can't say "because of Cadia" because Abbadon himself proved Cadia isn't the key.

Frankly, i think Abbadon IS a failure BECAUSE he insists on attacking Cadia in the first place. He's proven he can get large forces past Cadia, and we know it takes the Imperium at least a month to get it's gak together and mount any kind of a defense anywhere. That's 30 days he'd have to scour Terra and Mars with his Blackstone Fortresses. Or his Planetkiller, which actually KILLS PLANETS. Planets like fething TERRA.

Seriously you no-armed failure, get off your @$$ and finish this bullgak Horus Heresy II Electric Bugaloo so we can all go home!

Ok if Abaddon is silly for not beating the imperium why isnt the imperium silly for killing him or any other force out there?

squidhills wrote:Hey, I've got a question... If Abbadon isn't stupid for attacking Cadia, because he needs Cadia to be able to attack the rest of the Imperium...

How has he led 12 Black Crusades against the rest of the Imperium WITHOUT first taking Cadia?

If Abbadon isn't a failure for not being able to take Cadia, because 12 of his Crusades were succesful in attacking other areas, why is he trying to take Cadia at all? He got 12 Black Crusades past it successfuly! Why is he wasting time/men/resources on attacking it? If he can move 12 Crusades past Cadia, why can't he move one right up to the Goldne Throne?

And you can't say "because of Cadia" because Abbadon himself proved Cadia isn't the key.

Frankly, i think Abbadon IS a failure BECAUSE he insists on attacking Cadia in the first place. He's proven he can get large forces past Cadia, and we know it takes the Imperium at least a month to get it's gak together and mount any kind of a defense anywhere. That's 30 days he'd have to scour Terra and Mars with his Blackstone Fortresses. Or his Planetkiller, which actually KILLS PLANETS. Planets like fething TERRA.

Seriously you no-armed failure, get off your @$$ and finish this bullgak Horus Heresy II Electric Bugaloo so we can all go home!

Well, it was because Creed managed to use his tactical ingenuity to hide the whole planet 12 consecutive times.

Draigo wrote:Ok if Abaddon is silly for not beating the imperium why isnt the imperium silly for killing him or any other force out there?

Because for all his armlessness and failureness (it's a word! I made it up myself!) Abbadon has one thing going for him: the Eye of Terror. No sane bugger will even consider going into it. The Imperium can't get him when he makes it into the Eye, and I'm sure Tzeentch does things to the Warp that let Abby have an easy time navigating through the Imperium.

Basically, The Imperium can't kill Abbadon because the only thing he doesn't fail at is running away and hiding.

As for why the Imperium doesn't kill all the Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc...

It's becuase those are real threats that require a great deal of effort to stop. The Orks outnumber humanity. The Tyranids require a great deal of resources/men/effort to stop. The Eldar are hard to locate. If you can't find them, you can't kill them. They only show up when the odds are in their favor. Ditto for the Dark Eldar. I can't speak about the Necrons because I don't know enough about their new fluff. Tau aren't worth the Imperium's time right now.

squidhills wrote:

Draigo wrote:Ok if Abaddon is silly for not beating the imperium why isnt the imperium silly for killing him or any other force out there?

Because for all his armlessness and failureness (it's a word! I made it up myself!) Abbadon has one thing going for him: the Eye of Terror. No sane bugger will even consider going into it. The Imperium can't get him when he makes it into the Eye, and I'm sure Tzeentch does things to the Warp that let Abby have an easy time navigating through the Imperium.

Basically, The Imperium can't kill Abbadon because the only thing he doesn't fail at is running away and hiding.

As for why the Imperium doesn't kill all the Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc...

It's becuase those are real threats that require a great deal of effort to stop. The Orks outnumber humanity. The Tyranids require a great deal of resources/men/effort to stop. The Eldar are hard to locate. If you can't find them, you can't kill them. They only show up when the odds are in their favor. Ditto for the Dark Eldar. I can't speak about the Necrons because I don't know enough about their new fluff. Tau aren't worth the Imperium's time right now.

See this entire topic is hypocritical. Folks make fun of Abaddon but can't find any other leader since before the heresy that has much luck conquering anything.

Why look for a Starscream when you have a perfectly good Megatron at home?

I have just remembered that the IoM might have someone that'll take out Abaddon. It is from the BL so I am taking it with a lorry load of salt but if your wondering the book is "Cadian Blood"

I've read the book and I might not be remembering this correctly...but ther wasn't one person, hero or otherwise, that could take Abaddon.

I mean...if you're talking about the Veteran leader? He's impressive, but he isn't Abaddon's equal.

I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

Edit: I'm sure GW will never give us that scenario as they do not want to 'off' either of these pivotal characters.

Cadia is the only stable way out of the eye of terror, and abaddon knows this.

If he takes Cadia he gets a clear shot to Terra, BUT more importantly a clear shot everywhere else!

He could let lose entire demonic invasions all across the imperium, weakening it over time, then finally crushing terra.

One of the Black Crusades killed Rogal Dorn. Did Abbadon lead that one or somebody else?

I think that was the first Black Crusade...Presumably Abbadon led that one as well. Dorn kind of stomped it in the bud though at the cost of his life.

purplefood wrote:He is very silly... and he tells bad jokes.

Yeah, he constantly tells that bad one... what is it again... sigh, cant remember i just know its abaddone.

Harriticus wrote:

Anyway, the Cadian PDF doesn't have hundreds of billions. The entire population of Cadia is only around 1 billion with 75% of the population under arms, so about 750,000,000 Cadian Interior Guard/Youth Army/Shock Troops/Kasrkin

You do realize the earth at present is 7 billion people and Cadia is a fortress world. Which is kinda like a hive world except when babies are born instead of throwing them in the garbage they give them a lasgun. Last I checked the population of Cadia was closer to 20 billion with 75% under arms. which is more like 15 billion flak armor wearing mother ers to just keep throwing at the chaos shmucks

IronSnake wrote:I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

Edit: I'm sure GW will never give us that scenario as they do not want to 'off' either of these pivotal characters.

As long as his armour is blue at worst he will get a draw...

Wait a sec, both of them are hated... Both of them have no arms...
Calgar has the advantage of having no legs as well though, maybe that's Abaddon's problem; he has legs.


He hasn't really failed as much as people say though and if anything this war of attrition he has going are in his favor, if not as a distraction to whatever it is the current crusade would be about. Trying to take the entire IoM all at once in one crusade is stupid though which is why they build up.

The Crusader wrote:I have just remembered that the IoM might have someone that'll take out Abaddon. It is from the BL so I am taking it with a lorry load of salt but if your wondering the book is "Cadian Blood"

please correct me if im wrong but are you reffering to the part where the cadian psycher reads the emperors tarrot & see's that Thade, the main guy, will be the key to their salvation after picking the despoiler card ( roughly)? i think that was more along the lines of him winning their current situation & maybe getting back to fight on cadian soil than defeating abbadon himself. though, i could (rarely happens, but maaaaybe) be wrong

squidhills wrote:
Frankly, i think Abbadon IS a failure BECAUSE he insists on attacking Cadia in the first place. He's proven he can get large forces past Cadia, and we know it takes the Imperium at least a month to get it's gak together and mount any kind of a defense anywhere. That's 30 days he'd have to scour Terra and Mars with his Blackstone Fortresses. Or his Planetkiller, which actually KILLS PLANETS. Planets like fething TERRA.

Yeah, it's really not that easy. The Segmentum Solar has an entire Segmentum Battlefleet (and if I recall correctly, is the largest one) defending it, as well as the vast defences inside Sol inself (Lunar, Mars, the Grey Knights on Titan, the Jupiter fleet and such), as well as the fortifications on Terra itself (Abaddon is unlikely to get through the Palace defence any way near quick enough, and getting caught in the rear by Imperial reinforcements would likely crush him).

Also, he's not Horus, he has limited support inside the Imperium itself. He will be resisted every step of the way, and it seems like you can't just enter Warp-space inside the Eye of Terra and pop up next to a planet. He needs Cadia to maintain supply lines. Otherwise he has no reliable means of reinforcements or resupply, and must scavenge off what he can take from other planets and ships. So yeah, logisitcs stops him.

IronSnake wrote:I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

I'm pretty sure anyone who's a decent shot could knock off Abaddon. I believe his lack of a helmet will one day get him killed.

CuddlySquig wrote:

IronSnake wrote:I believe Marneus Calgar could defeat Abaddon in combat. Who knows though.

I'm pretty sure anyone who's a decent shot could knock off Abaddon. I believe his lack of a helmet will one day get him killed.

His ponytail and uber spikes protect him from any damage..

Just like Calgar. And Astorath. And Lysander. And ....

What war of attretion? Isnt every black crusade seperated by 100s of years? Which allows the cadians time to rearm, and re populate. While at the same time for choas its only a few months?

Or it could be a few millennia to them. And the war of attrition thats happening in the 13th. As soon as Chaos lose momentum, it becomes attritional warfare. A war they cannot win

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:What war of attretion? Isnt every black crusade seperated by 100s of years? Which allows the cadians time to rearm, and re populate. While at the same time for choas its only a few months?

IIRC, three Black Crusades were aimed at Cadia, while the others were just battering rams Abaddon used to get out to achieve some objective of his own, like getting Drach'nyen. Also, the result of the actual campaign to decide the Black Crusade was a win for Chaos and failure for the Imperium, but GW gave them a partial victory because the Eldar did one of their objectives for them.

The time for the Chaos Marines could be millenia or days. They don't seem to age, regardless.

As for the war of attrition, the Imperium can't afford one without weakening against the Orks, Nids or Necrons.

Durza wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:What war of attretion? Isnt every black crusade seperated by 100s of years? Which allows the cadians time to rearm, and re populate. While at the same time for choas its only a few months?

IIRC, three Black Crusades were aimed at Cadia, while the others were just battering rams Abaddon used to get out to achieve some objective of his own, like getting Drach'nyen. Also, the result of the actual campaign to decide the Black Crusade was a win for Chaos and failure for the Imperium, but GW gave them a partial victory because the Eldar did one of their objectives for them.

The time for the Chaos Marines could be millenia or days. They don't seem to age, regardless.

As for the war of attrition, the Imperium can't afford one without weakening against the Orks, Nids or Necrons.

Well, as I said before, Cadia is one of the most important worlds in the entire Imperium. Losing it would not be an option, since it would leave the Imperium exposed. They have won vicious wars of attrition before, like on Armageddon, which was a minor victory against an enemy who was using the same tactic against them. Chaos cannot afford such a war.

Furthermore, it takes vast amounts of time for the the CSM to reinforce. The call for reinforcements could linger in the Warp for centuries before it was received. For all the traitors inside the Eye know, Abbadon could have conquered Cadia by now.

And the situation with the Orks, Nids and Crons is not critical. In my opinion, the biggest threat are the Orks, since the major Hive Fleets have splintered and the Necrons are too few in number to incite a massive battle with the Imperium. They mostly excell at raiding and conquering worlds here and there according to new fluff. And a war of attrition is pretty much the only tactic the Imperium uses.

I agree that losing Cadia isn't an option, but placing nukes at strategic points along fault lines in the planet's crust certainly is.

Durza wrote:I agree that losing Cadia isn't an option, but placing nukes at strategic points along fault lines in the planet's crust certainly is.

Well, you got me on that, but I think they never have Exterminatused planets with a very high value to the Imperium. The Cadian military is arguably the best in the whole Imperial Guard, with all their training and experience. And if that is not reason enough, they would only buy a little more time if they decided to Exterminatus the living daylights out of the Cadian system, because next time the forces of chaos attacked, it would be a free system for them and they would get the foothold in the Materium they are so eager to get.

They already have a foothold on Cadia though. The Imperium only has the advantage in the sky. If they bombard the planet enough to kill all the Chaos there, it'd likely render the planet uninhabitable anyway, so why not deny Chaos the chance to turn in into a stronghold?

Durza wrote:They already have a foothold on Cadia though. The Imperium only has the advantage in the sky. If they bombard the planet enough to kill all the Chaos there, it'd likely render the planet uninhabitable anyway, so why not deny Chaos the chance to turn in into a stronghold?

But if they wanted to drive the Chaos back by bombing them, they could just bomb the most crucial areas where they are most entrenched, and then liberate the world using infantry, like they did on Armageddon.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Durza wrote:They already have a foothold on Cadia though. The Imperium only has the advantage in the sky. If they bombard the planet enough to kill all the Chaos there, it'd likely render the planet uninhabitable anyway, so why not deny Chaos the chance to turn in into a stronghold?

But if they wanted to drive the Chaos back by bombing them, they could just bomb the most crucial areas where they are most entrenched, and then liberate the world using infantry, like they did on Armageddon.

The 13. Black Crusade backgroundbook elaborates on the situation within the Cadian Gate. The Imperial Fleet, while probably still stronger than the remains of the chaos armada, got savaged when it drove off Abaddon's blackstone fortress. Depending on how strong the chaos foothold on Cadia is ( ground to space batteries, captured fortresses and the like ) there might not be sufficient fleet elements left for an effective and save orbital bombardment.
In such a situation it might be better to conserve ressources and the current advantage in space ( that is, preventing chaos from reinforcing their own groundtroops just as the forces of order are prevented from doing the same by the summoned warpstorms ) than to risk what is left.
Exterminatus is equaly not an option. Abaddon did not dare to destroy Cadia with his planetkiller, something he could have easily done during the initial invasion, so i doubt that the imperial commanders there would be more reckless.
One should also keep in mind that simply abandoning Cadia, by declaring exterminatus, would be a huge blow to imperial moral.

I'd imagine that if they do ever force Abaddon off Cadia, he'll throw a hissy fit and fire the Planet Killer at it out of sheer annoyance, then ragequit.

He will claim weighted dice and pout until his next amazing crusade objective idea.

Abaddon's ponytail lets him inflict 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 SD attacks in addition to his normal attacks

You can't just destroy Cadia if you're the Imperium. It's the only stronghold at the biggest bottle neck Chaos Marines face. Without it there, they could just go through the empty space. It's much harder to run a blockade with ships without an actual planet or rather system to have as the hard point...I mean, star forts work but they're not nearly as good as star forts + planets.

I think Abaddon would be satisfied with destroying Cadia but the problem is the Planet Killer can't just zoom up and do it. He has to cripple all the ships defending it first or he'd lose the planet killer because...It's not good at space battle at all, it's a big clumsy but insanely huge gun. It needs a massive fleet in support to get where it needs to go whenever there's resistance.

The true pimp of the chaos forces is Ahriman. That man gets gak done. Chaos is all like "Hey man, we got some of this lovely corruption and gak going on over here, you want some?" and he just rolls his eyes, puts on his playlist, and invades the webway.

You don't mess with the guy who has remained untainted for 10k years and still has his sanity.

Is Ahriman actually still untainted though? Or does Tzeentch just let him think he is?

Don't get me wrong, Ahriman's one of my favourite characters. I'd love for him to still be untainted, and possibly have some sort of redemption story in the future.

BrainDeleted wrote:
I think Abaddon would be satisfied with destroying Cadia but the problem is the Planet Killer can't just zoom up and do it. He has to cripple all the ships defending it first or he'd lose the planet killer because...It's not good at space battle at all, it's a big clumsy but insanely huge gun. It needs a massive fleet in support to get where it needs to go whenever there's resistance.

Destroying Cadia would also ( possibly ) destroy the largest stable route out of the Eye of Terror. While the Despoiler is most certainly insane he is not stupid.

Ok, time for my 2 cents,

Honestly i dont think abaddon is as bad as people make out, well hes obiously insane and a genius as well as a heretical madman, but hes also a tactical genius, yes people moan about him taking 13 attempts collecting what he needs, but as far as he cares he has all the time in the universe since marines are invunrable to time, especially those that had the 4 gods of chaos on there side, as for all the lore ive read the forces of chaos and the imperium are at a stalemate on cadia, the ships in orbit have lost most of there fleet and are runnin low on munitions, and as for the planet its self, neither side can afford to destroy the cadia because of the simple fact of the pylons... which create the stable point in the eye, chaos because its there only (relative) safe route through, and the imperium because if they destroy cadia they loose there only major presence in that subsector and even the imperium cant afford to loose such a major force in one go dispite the population count of the imperium.

no matter what though Abaddon will never actually hurt the Imperium because it is to large

DarkAngelz wrote:no matter what though Abaddon will never actually hurt the Imperium because it is to large

Well, he currently does. The Imperium might be large but it is also enganged on all sides by the forces of chaos, by internal rebellions and the many various xeno empires within the galaxy.
Each Black Crusade draws precious ressources which could be utilised on other fronts, bringing the already fissured Imperium ever closer to it's final demise.

KingDeath wrote:

DarkAngelz wrote:no matter what though Abaddon will never actually hurt the Imperium because it is to large

Well, he currently does. The Imperium might be large but it is also enganged on all sides by the forces of chaos, by internal rebellions and the many various xeno empires within the galaxy.
Each Black Crusade draws precious ressources which could be utilised on other fronts, bringing the already fissured Imperium ever closer to it's final demise.

The IoM will never have a final demise. Everyone has the same threat of anniahlation except for maybe chaos, tyranids, and orks.

For actual information from GW about what actually happened in the 13th Black Crusade, see:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

The WD results are posted verbatim. It is hard to have a discussion about a topic when there is so much apparent misinformation or misremembered information floating around.

Furthermore, if one refers to GW's Apocalypse rulebook, one can see that Abaddon once more has a functional Planet Killer and is out of the Cadian Gate, and is in the Thesus Sector.

Before anyone raises the point about the battle report not being canon, the battle report about the Battle for Cold Steel Ridge is also in that book and has been incorporated into the canon in both the latest SM and Tyranid Codex, thus there is precedent for the events described by these reports being made canon.

That is impressive, it would seem that Cadia is surrounded by a sea of chaos. And is well on it's way to falling.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:That is impressive, it would seem that Cadia is surrounded by a sea of chaos. And is well on it's way to falling.

I doubt Cadia will fall, it would be too hard for GW to market the Cadian IG.
Remember, they make their money off of models, book/fluff sales are less significant.
just because something makes sense in the 40k universe doesn't mean it will happen, GW will probably pick profit over quality story-telling on this one...

Well going off only fluff..... it will fall. I like to go with fluff more than business. It is much less boring.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Well going off only fluff..... it will fall. I like to go with fluff more than business. It is much less boring.

very true

I'm sure that if the Imperium tried to invade the Eye of Terror they wouldn't be able to tackle it on their first shot, just something to think about.

Nah, the Imperium isn't going to invade the Eye ot Terror.

They are just waiting for Creed to finish his plan to trick Ghazskull into looting the Eye of Terror for his Waaagh. With the Eye looted, Abbadabbadoosh won't have anywhere to launch his crusades from and he will be forced to relocate to China so he can use cheap labor to offset the costs of relocation.

KingDeath wrote:Destroying Cadia would also ( possibly ) destroy the largest stable route out of the Eye of Terror. While the Despoiler is most certainly insane he is not stupid.

Well, it'd just be empty space with a star. You can still go through it just no resupply depot on the way or defensible hard point. A situation much more in Abaddon's favor than in the Imperial's.

BrainDeleted wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Destroying Cadia would also ( possibly ) destroy the largest stable route out of the Eye of Terror. While the Despoiler is most certainly insane he is not stupid.

Well, it'd just be empty space with a star. You can still go through it just no resupply depot on the way or defensible hard point. A situation much more in Abaddon's favor than in the Imperial's.

Definitely his best bet. The only reason Cadiz is a problem is because it cuts off supplies from the eye. If be were to just blow the crap out of it. He guarantees that the IoM will never hold it again. Which would be perfect for him.

Pretty silly

At least he HAS led 13 black crusades already. Its a lot more than what the other daemon primarchs have done. All the rest of the daemon primarchs are content just warring amongst themselves within the eye of terror. And for all we know, he could be actually doing pretty well at Cadia. Its just that we are currently "frozen" in time until GW agrees to move the timeline forward again.

If he has failed that badly, by right, he should have been reduced to a mewling chaos spawn by now. Fact that he hasn't, and actually has a mark of chaos ascendent which combines all 4 marks of chaos shows that he has to be doing lots of things right by the chaos gods. Also, to be able to lead the other chaos factions, all the cult troops, and such, you have to be truely powerful. If he was such a wimp, he should have been replaced or killed by some other aspiring chaos champion by now already.

Do the chaos gods actually want him to just stomp the imperium into the ground? Its possible they thrive on continued chaos, so they actually enjoy all the to and fro and constant wars with the imperium. They don't want imperium to win decisively, which was why they all ganged up together on the emperor (the one person who was capable of enabling the imperium to win). But they may not necessarily want the imperium to be utterly destroyed either (regardless of what the rest of their underlyings want).

I mean, Nurgle is about creation and plague. Kind of hard to do if everyone is dead. And if Khorne loves eternal battle and more skulls. Khorne doesn't care for victory actually. Slanaash needs people to adore him, to have lots of vile excess and extreme emotion. You need an imperium to corrupt. And Tzeentch is never about total domination. Tzeentch thrives on many layered plots and subplots.

So, the chaos gods may seem to be on Abaddon's side, but they may not really "want" him to totally win either. He's great in their book because he's strong enough not to die to rivals and charismatic enough to get all the chaos space marines to launch big nasty black crusades out of the eye of terror and during these crusades, there are lots of death, decay, plague, corruption and mass destruction!That's probably good enough for the chaos gods already! lol.

Or the simple answer, GS needed someone totally badass which can have all cult troops in his armies, so that people can combine different cult troops together in an army fluff wise, and so they made Abaddon. lol

It's likely that the gods don't want the Imperium gone, but Abaddon also doesn't give a gak what the gods want. He's all about revenge. And from one of the few Chaos inputs on the events, Abaddon has refused daemonhood twelve times, each time after a black crusade.

DarkAngelz wrote:no matter what though Abaddon will never actually hurt the Imperium because it is to large

That means Horus couldn't possibly have shattered the Imperium either. Congratulations, you've proved the Heresy never happened.

With the Imperium gone, the Chaos Gods would be able to secure the fall of humanity because there would be no order uniting the species (this would also happen if the Emperor died and the astronomicon went out). The pomises of the Chaos gods would be a releif from the anarchy of the post-imperium universe. It's most likely that the Gods want the Imperium gone... badly.

A for effort.

Squidmanlolz wrote:With the Imperium gone, the Chaos Gods would be able to secure the fall of humanity because there would be no order uniting the species (this would also happen if the Emperor died and the astronomicon went out). The pomises of the Chaos gods would be a releif from the anarchy of the post-imperium universe. It's most likely that the Gods want the Imperium gone... badly.

Cept it was a rumor that the gods and sage/emprah and the ruinous powers were connected for awhile so the theory ws if the emprah died so would the tzeentch, khorne and nurgle. Can't speculate on Slaanesh since it's the eldars fault there. My personal opinion I dont think the ruinous powers really care as long as people continue to die in their name. In more then a few sources Khorne laughed at his own followers destroying themselves ie Daakari(spelling could be off).

No for all the chaos gods to die we would have to be extinct as they live off of our emotions. I remember reading somewhere that the big E is using the multitude of wars to fuel him so when he starts pushing up the daisies, he can able up to the gods and say "haha, No" and smite em good

The Crusader wrote:No for all the chaos gods to die we would have to be extinct as they live off of our emotions. I remember reading somewhere that the big E is using the multitude of wars to fuel him so when he starts pushing up the daisies, he can able up to the gods and say "haha, No" and smite em good

That's a pretty stupid idea if true. Every war fuels the gods as well, and the last god to emerge from a race devoured the entire races' souls, and that was still only enough power to get into the four.

Yeah it is but it is a theory none the less

Durza wrote:

The Crusader wrote:No for all the chaos gods to die we would have to be extinct as they live off of our emotions. I remember reading somewhere that the big E is using the multitude of wars to fuel him so when he starts pushing up the daisies, he can able up to the gods and say "haha, No" and smite em good

That's a pretty stupid idea if true. Every war fuels the gods as well, and the last god to emerge from a race devoured the entire races' souls, and that was still only enough power to get into the four.

Except its an official theory called the "Star Child"


The Emperor eventually builds enough power to become a chaos power and is able to stomp the chaos gods out of existance and ensure the continued existance of humanity. after his physical body dies of course.


The Emperor scares the out of the Chaos Gods. There is a reason they call him the Anathema. He is able to openly oppose them from the physical universe, the last thing they want is him to enter the warp.

Grey Templar wrote:

Durza wrote:

The Crusader wrote:No for all the chaos gods to die we would have to be extinct as they live off of our emotions. I remember reading somewhere that the big E is using the multitude of wars to fuel him so when he starts pushing up the daisies, he can able up to the gods and say "haha, No" and smite em good

That's a pretty stupid idea if true. Every war fuels the gods as well, and the last god to emerge from a race devoured the entire races' souls, and that was still only enough power to get into the four.

Except its an official theory called the "Star Child"

And every member of the cult following that theory was murdered by the Inquisition.

The Emperor eventually builds enough power to become a chaos power and is able to stomp the chaos gods out of existance and ensure the continued existance of humanity. after his physical body dies of course.

Except that's not going to happen. Slaanesh ate the entire Eldar empire after being fed by them for millenia. And they're far more psychically powerful than humans. The only way the Emperor would get enough power to defeat one, let alone all of them, would be to devour the human race, kind of defeating the purpose.

The Emperor scares the out of the Chaos Gods. There is a reason they call him the Anathema. He is able to openly oppose them from the physical universe, the last thing they want is him to enter the warp.

They called him the Anatheme because he tasted bad and was trying to stamp out religion. And the Chaos gods are able to openly oppose him from the psychic universe, so I don't really se your point there. The gods never manifest physically.

Emprah is still kinda kicking inside each and every gk.

In all fairness though the Big E has been fueled by billions of humans a day for the last 10,000 years


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ish

Durza wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Durza wrote:

The Crusader wrote:No for all the chaos gods to die we would have to be extinct as they live off of our emotions. I remember reading somewhere that the big E is using the multitude of wars to fuel him so when he starts pushing up the daisies, he can able up to the gods and say "haha, No" and smite em good

That's a pretty stupid idea if true. Every war fuels the gods as well, and the last god to emerge from a race devoured the entire races' souls, and that was still only enough power to get into the four.

Except its an official theory called the "Star Child"

And every member of the cult following that theory was murdered by the Inquisition.

Yes, but the Sensei still remain to be found, IIRC. They can always gather new supporters like they have done for ten millenia and being the sons of the Emperor, they cannot "die".

The Emperor eventually builds enough power to become a chaos power and is able to stomp the chaos gods out of existance and ensure the continued existance of humanity. after his physical body dies of course.

Except that's not going to happen. Slaanesh ate the entire Eldar empire after being fed by them for millenia. And they're far more psychically powerful than humans. The only way the Emperor would get enough power to defeat one, let alone all of them, would be to devour the human race, kind of defeating the purpose.

But still, the human race was able to create three of the most powerful gods, and they are more numerous than Eldar ever were. Who says they need to be incredibly powerful? Their collective power should be enough.

The Emperor scares the out of the Chaos Gods. There is a reason they call him the Anathema. He is able to openly oppose them from the physical universe, the last thing they want is him to enter the warp.

They called him the Anatheme because he tasted bad and was trying to stamp out religion. And the Chaos gods are able to openly oppose him from the psychic universe, so I don't really se your point there. The gods never manifest physically.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Durza wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Durza wrote:

The Crusader wrote:No for all the chaos gods to die we would have to be extinct as they live off of our emotions. I remember reading somewhere that the big E is using the multitude of wars to fuel him so when he starts pushing up the daisies, he can able up to the gods and say "haha, No" and smite em good

That's a pretty stupid idea if true. Every war fuels the gods as well, and the last god to emerge from a race devoured the entire races' souls, and that was still only enough power to get into the four.

Except its an official theory called the "Star Child"

And every member of the cult following that theory was murdered by the Inquisition.

Yes, but the Sensei still remain to be found, IIRC. They can always gather new supporters like they have done for ten millenia and being the sons of the Emperor, they cannot "die".

The Emperor eventually builds enough power to become a chaos power and is able to stomp the chaos gods out of existance and ensure the continued existance of humanity. after his physical body dies of course.

Except that's not going to happen. Slaanesh ate the entire Eldar empire after being fed by them for millenia. And they're far more psychically powerful than humans. The only way the Emperor would get enough power to defeat one, let alone all of them, would be to devour the human race, kind of defeating the purpose.

But still, the human race was able to create three of the most powerful gods, and they are more numerous than Eldar ever were. Who says they need to be incredibly powerful? Their collective power should be enough.

The human race did not create the three most powerful gods, they already existed before, they were merely "awakened" or made self aware by humanity. Actually I'm not even sure if it was humanity who did it.

Isn't it written somewhere that the warp used to be a relatively benign place and was only made hostile during the War in Heaven (Crons & Old ones)? Could that have anything to do with the formation of the first three?

The Chaos gods were inadvertantly created by the Old Ones when they created the Eldar and Orks.

BrainDeleted wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Destroying Cadia would also ( possibly ) destroy the largest stable route out of the Eye of Terror. While the Despoiler is most certainly insane he is not stupid.

Well, it'd just be empty space with a star. You can still go through it just no resupply depot on the way or defensible hard point. A situation much more in Abaddon's favor than in the Imperial's.

Not quite. It is assumed that the Cadian Pylons are what keeps the warproute out of ( and into ) the Eye of Terror stable. It is therefore unwise to outright destroy Cadia.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Durza wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Durza wrote:

The Crusader wrote:No for all the chaos gods to die we would have to be extinct as they live off of our emotions. I remember reading somewhere that the big E is using the multitude of wars to fuel him so when he starts pushing up the daisies, he can able up to the gods and say "haha, No" and smite em good

That's a pretty stupid idea if true. Every war fuels the gods as well, and the last god to emerge from a race devoured the entire races' souls, and that was still only enough power to get into the four.

Except its an official theory called the "Star Child"

And every member of the cult following that theory was murdered by the Inquisition.

Yes, but the Sensei still remain to be found, IIRC. They can always gather new supporters like they have done for ten millenia and being the sons of the Emperor, they cannot "die".

The Emperor eventually builds enough power to become a chaos power and is able to stomp the chaos gods out of existance and ensure the continued existance of humanity. after his physical body dies of course.

Except that's not going to happen. Slaanesh ate the entire Eldar empire after being fed by them for millenia. And they're far more psychically powerful than humans. The only way the Emperor would get enough power to defeat one, let alone all of them, would be to devour the human race, kind of defeating the purpose.

But still, the human race was able to create three of the most powerful gods, and they are more numerous than Eldar ever were. Who says they need to be incredibly powerful? Their collective power should be enough.

No they didn't. The three elder Chaos gods were created by the emotions of a galaxy. Slaanesh was the only one created (almost entirely- other races probably gave some contribution) by a single race. All that power, including that gotten from absorbing other gods, was enough to force itself into the Great Game. The Emperor would be in a totally different position. The four gods would probably just pause the game and destroy him before he became fully conscious in the Warp, regardless of how strong he may or may not be.

The Emperor scares the out of the Chaos Gods. There is a reason they call him the Anathema. He is able to openly oppose them from the physical universe, the last thing they want is him to enter the warp.

They called him the Anatheme because he tasted bad and was trying to stamp out religion. And the Chaos gods are able to openly oppose him from the psychic universe, so I don't really se your point there. The gods never manifest physically.

Well, he cannot be touched by the powers of Chaos, and he cannot truly die. He is the greatest psyker since Tzeench, and the dark gods see him as a giant Culexus Assassin with an agenda to eradicate them. Since they are ethereal, they can't really physically harm the Emperor, and the possibility that he will one day climb up their ivory throne in the warp and kick their asses is what scares them

iirc somewhere near the end of the eisenhorn books they go onto a planet that was once an ancient daemon stronghold created after a lesser daemon escaped after a billion year war, and there is something mentioned about the "three great powers" and someone mentions that isnt right because there are 4 yadda yadda yadda etc etc etc o.o i know its off topic for the ot but im setting a point that they existed sentient far longer than the human race has otherwise, how could there of been a war between the 3 great powers and a daemonic prince?

Just back to this topic of Cadia. We don't know if its all part of his plan. But I will say one thing. Psycologically, if you have the biggest, strongest chaos legion currently within the eye of terror, you will be tempted to go and wack Cadia simply because it is such a massive fortified world and it is right at your doorstep.

Call it arrogance if you want. But its like, if you have a bazooka, you don't just want to use it to blow up a bottle, you want to use it to blow up a tank!