Now, Warhammer has changed and evolved a lot, and some things have been lost along the way, but as both the Chaos Dwarfs and the Storm of Magic book have proved, it doesn't have to be forever.

Now some of the old forces, e.g. Slann I don't think should make a comeback, but others really deserve it in my view

So what forces would you like to see back?

For me, in 40K I'd love to see revamped Squats, not Demiurg, Squats, serious non-cartoony Squats, Mantic did their Forgefather's beautifully, why couldn't GW do some amazing Space Dwarfs.

Praetorians, they contrasted with the Grimdark setting, but in a nice way, they weren't as serious as the other armies, they were only a minor part and the models did look beautiful

For Fantasy first and foremost are the forces of Kislev, Boris Ursus is one of my all time favorite models and I'm still desperately trying to get hold of him, then if you expanded that model set a bit and brought back the old models, I'd sell my other armies for a huge Kislev force

Secondly and close behind are the Zoats, now yes there were Zoats in the SoM book, but I'd love to see a contingent of them, or some models at the very least. A druid, a few warriors, maybe some kind of giant monster

Thirdly, Fimir, now I know one appeared in the SoM and more are rumored for Monstrous Arcana, but again I'd love a full army of one of the few completely warhammer forces

What about you?

Proper genestealer cults. Bring on the Hybrids!

40k has carved its own identity.

The Squats are only liked by people ironically. They're goofy by design. There is no niche that they can fulfill that isn't already taken. Mantic's space dwarves have been taken in a rather mixed opinion.

Praetorians also add really nothing to the game that the Imperial Guard don't already encompass. There are plenty of pith helmeted heads out there so Praetorians can easily be done without GW interference. Perhaps they may have been silly in a grimdark world, but then again Space Marines and Eldar run around in Skittles armor while Orks are soccer hooligans.

Personally, I really wouldn't want them to bring anyone back to 40k. The Zoats being allied with Tyranids is rather awkward and the fluff took this to its logical conclusion. The Slann are a rather boring copy+paste from Fantasy (like Squats). Genestealer Cults and "Lost and the Damned" are really similar in design and could be an interesting comeback.
Perhaps I would really like it if they brought back old units. Imperial Guard Suicide Bombers make sense; even throw them into Orks. Eldar Battle Drones would make too much sense; why aren't the dying Eldar employing more robots? Harlequin Solitaires are a fan-favorite. Legio Cybernetica Robots would be fun; it's rather annoying that the lower-tech Tau get AI.

Plus, with the Umbra, the Hrud, and especially the Adeptus Mechanicus are other avenues that GW hasn't explored for newer armies in the fluff. Seriously though, why hasn't the Adeptus Mechanicus gotten its own army already?

Squats are fairly stupid in the 40k setting and I'm glad they're gone. There are numerous groups I'd like to see have their own armies (Adeptus Mechanicus, Chaos Renegades, a non-Imperial human faction) but none that I want to see brought back. Most of the stuff that has been cut out (Zoats, Exodite Eldar, etc.) was too goofy and fantasy-related.

Chaos Dwarves had their place in WHFB though.

Absolutionis wrote:40k has carved its own identity.

GW make another game as well. Warhammer... Fantasy? I think it's called that.

I'd like to see Zoats and Fimir back in more than just Storm of Magic scrolls. But apparently Forgeworld are on this. They've been given the go ahead for Fimir, Snake people and, IIRC, Zoats. Forgeworld are a far better entity to resurrect old races, because they aren't tied to the studios release cycle of army book + range update. They can make, say, some new Fimir warriors and a command group, and make some rules for them for free that allow them to be fielded by certain armies.

I would like not an army pre say but I'd like to field official Arbite Patrol teams again with special rules in regards to their executioner shells.

-Loki- wrote:But apparently Forgeworld are on this. They've been given the go ahead for Fimir, Snake people and, IIRC, Zoats.

By snake people do you mean naga/yuan-ti?

I want to see Chaos Dwarfs come as an actually supported army, but meh.

CT GAMER wrote:Proper genestealer cults. Bring on the Hybrids!

All kinds of this... it may be one of the most developed fluff wise too, other than squats.. wouldn't take much to kick start it


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P.s... I don't know how, but I have never seen a Fimir before!


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Googling away.

AlexHolker wrote:

-Loki- wrote:But apparently Forgeworld are on this. They've been given the go ahead for Fimir, Snake people and, IIRC, Zoats.

By snake people do you mean naga/yuan-ti?

No idea. In their games day presentation, where they were talking about Monstrous Arcana, they also mentioned some other fantasy stuff they're working on. Two of them were Fimir and 'serpent men'.

Arbites and cults, for sure. I don't know how much overlap you could do for Genestealer cults and Chaos cults, and if it would be possible to run them in the same book. Then again, back in the day Genestealer cults would sometimes worship Khorne so you never know. I'd want Genestealer cults to be separate from the Tyranids proper, but as a WD minidex they'd be great.

I like the idea of any non CSM cults coming back. Stealers, LATD. Squats...meh.

Also would be cool with Slann coming back.

Honestly, I'd like to see a lot of the old stuff come back - even in minor form - say as an add-on to an existing army. I'll ignore models that are still official, even if OOP (ie: Praetorians, Vostroyans)

Squats. I'd like to see them back properly, but they could work as an IG abhuman add-on with a few different unit options (infantry, sappers, bikers)

Loyalist Beastmen in IG.

Genestealer cult armies! I'm not too fussed about a return of their cousin - Chaos Genestealer cults.

Fimir and Zoats in WFB - they were small things that made WFB unique, rather than just being a copy of Generic Fantasy World, which is what they scaled back to after WFB3. They could be Mercenaries/Storm of Magic-style Extras or small add-ons to existing armies.

Space Zoats! I would love to see these guys make a return. Jokero-style would be enough for me. Give them to the Tau.

Arbites (rolled into an Inquisiton codex?)

Proper Chaos Cults - L&TD style from the EOT codex. (Which IA book has Chaos cults?)

Chaos Dwarfs - FW is in the process.


edit - grrr crappy list tags!

40K:-
Genestealer Cults
The Lost and the Damned

Fantasy:-
Richter Kreugar's Cursed Company (OK, so it's a unit rather than a race/army, but seriously, why the heck was this discontinued? Those non-human skeletons were great for spicing up Undead armies.)

Also, not an old army, but the Adeptus Mechanicus seriously needs its own (mini?) army, even if there already are too many Imperial armies.

I liked the squats quite a bit. I feel Tau filled that niche... but I do miss trikes, exo-armor, and land trains (I used to play them in Epic).

Another vote for Genestealer cults, and for Chaos Cults, Traitor Guard, etc.

And yes, though the Imperium is already, in the eyes of many, over-represented, some kind of allies list to add Adeptus Mechanicus, Arbites, and other oddities to standard lists would be fun and fluffy, and might even add a bit of much-needed variety.

Actually, all of the above could easily-enough be implemented by one Storm of Magic-type book.

So far as Warhammer goes, it would be cool to see Nipponese and Cathayan armies again. Maybe if Games Workshop find themselves interested in marketing the games in the Far East...

I'd seriously think about one expansion for Cults / Arbites etc. It's all basically inquisitor / necromunda stuff, it should probably all be revamped into one big ol' book for 'civillian issues'.

The Hurd would be nice to see in the mix, same the the robot armies.

Not Squats.

I'd also like to see a list for cultists be they of the chaos or genestealer variety (can't think of reason they couldn't be in the same book to be honest).

In fantasy I wouldn't mind a Necromancers Undead book just so Nagash can return to the table top.

And that I believe is 4999 posts. Time to go and think of something profound to say for post no. 5000

Absolutionis wrote:

Personally, I really wouldn't want them to bring anyone back to 40k. The Zoats being allied with Tyranids is rather awkward and the fluff took this to its logical conclusion. ?

The zoats were part of the Nid collective, and used by them as ambassadors I believe, rather than being an actually separate race. Personally I quite liked that aspect of the Nids - it showed a level of sapience and intelligence, rather than just a mindless animal urge to run forward and eat things. It also still tied into the fact that the Nids used the best parts of the enemies it consumed - I think it is more interesting if that goes beyond "i now have sharper claws" that the Hive mind could operate in that kind of manner. And as a consequence, I think it had the potential to be far more frightening.

I think it also ties in with why we haven't seen or heard anything of Genestealer cults any more, it doesn't really fit in with the way that Nids have evolved in the background. You could draw a similar parallel with the development of Orks and that now, thanks to Gavin Thorpe, they have been reduced in their background to mindless beasts with no real society of culture. Chaos also, who couldn't be more of a cliche if they tried.

Although I'm going off on a tangent here, I was quite pleased with the new Necron Codex, as it actually introduced some more complex narrative and motivation into the story beyond everyone saying "must kill", and behaving like a noob in a deathmatch, running forward attacking wildly until either they or their enemy are killed.

I'd quite like them to produce a Codex: Scum of the Universe. Army lists for the Cults and things of that ilk, but also merc units most armies could take one of per battle. But it must include at least one unit of Squats. Because Squats are awesome.

I'm curious how many people that don't like Squats actually played them. I played them back in the day and enjoyed them quite a bit. They have as much relevance in 40K as Eldar (silly Elves) Dark Eldar (silly evil Elves), Orks and Gretchen (Orcs and Goblins), Ogryns (Ogres) Ratlings (Halflings) Inquisitors (Witch Hunters)... the list could go on if I thought more about it, but I don't want to.

However, I have to say that above and beyond anything I'd like to see, I want my Genestealer Cult back! And I really want SPECIFIC rules for Traitor Guard. In the fluff there are millions on millions of Cultists, Traitors, heretics, etc that stand against the Imperium, but 5th Ed doesn't give them any more thought than the random reference.

So much of what I truly and genuinely enjoy(ed) about this game was lost when 5th Ed came out. History disregarded, armies nerfed, fluff rewritten, armies ignored... I have hope for 6th Ed but not a lot.

The only race I would like to see back is Genestealers as a standalone. The actual fluff for this used to make me shudder as a child, it just ticked all the horror movie in space boxes for me.
Squats were crap when they were real, they're just something internet people pretend to like so they can pretend to be counter-culture.
LotD is interesting, and it's a very cool book. For the modelling alone I'd like to see the mutation table make a return, just for spawns or something like that.
Fimir, Zoats, Old Ones and so on are out for good reason. Including them in army books as little flourishes is all we need. The Jokaero is a perfect example of the nod to the old guys. I'd like to see a Gyrinx as a psychic buff charcater for a Farseer. I use one as an Enhance Warlock anyway, becuase it makes me feel good. With his own rules though, that would be much better.

Flashman wrote:And that I believe is 4999 posts. Time to go and think of something profound to say for post no. 5000

Make it something completely peurile like "lol" and nothing more.

I will always like Squats. If I was in charge of GW my first imperious command would be "Bring back Squats!" My second would be "Find somewhere to dispose of those stupid Necron things."

Pundabaya wrote:My second would be "Find somewhere to dispose of those stupid Necron things."

Good plan.

I also approve entirely of the suggestions of Zoats, Space-Slann and Gyrinxes. How about Enslavers?

For Warhammer Fantasy, I would like to see the return fo Dogs of War. Being a Border Prince would be so damn cool. Otherwise, I would like Cathay or Araby to get a book.

Of course I'd say Genestealer Cults. And honestly, I think that could happen...someday. There's a retro trend in the studio now, and GC are already well-developed. Getting written out of the Ichar IV story in the current Tyranid codex isn't a good sign, however.

I'd also like to see Space Slann, the faction that first interested me back in RT. And of course LatD.

The Slayer army of Karak Kadrin.

gorgon wrote:Of course I'd say Genestealer Cults. And honestly, I think that could happen...someday. There's a retro trend in the studio now, and GC are already well-developed. Getting written out of the Ichar IV story in the current Tyranid codex isn't a good sign, however.

I'd also like to see Space Slann, the faction that first interested me back in RT. And of course LatD.

I don't think we will see any form of "cultist" again in 40K tbh.

The term doesn't fit the more kid-ified mainstream facelift that 40K has been given. Cults murdering, enslaving, worshipping daemonsm, etc, is not something GW wants kids talking about and risking parent ire.

Likewise the Imperium used to seem much more ominous and dark imho.

You used to barely be able to read more then a few lines without mention of "exterminatus" and the killing of whole populations on a whim of some Imperial general, etc. Sounded a little too "holocaust" me thinks. Do the newer marine books mention it at all and with the detail and frequency thet used to?

I think it the same reason that the SOB have not been pursued: the religious extremism, burning of heretics, killing in the na,e of faith aspect perhaps.

CT GAMER wrote:The term doesn't fit the more kid-ified mainstream facelift that 40K has been given. Cults corrupting, enslaving and overthrowing people is not something GW wants kids talking about and risking parent ire.

Are you aware of the Grey Knights and Dark Eldar? They're at least as far from "kidified mainstream" as chaos cultists.

There is plenty of non-kid friendly armies and fluff in 40k, it's just not apparent on its face. Chaos cultists would be no different, to the casual observer they're simply humans on the Chaos side.

That said, I simply can't understand people who love genestealers but rag on the Squats. For every Land Train the squats have the Genestealers had a "Transport Limousine."

Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.

Murdock129 wrote:Now, Warhammer has changed and evolved a lot, and some things have been lost along the way, but as both the Chaos Dwarfs and the Storm of Magic book have proved, it doesn't have to be forever.

Now some of the old forces, e.g. Slann I don't think should make a comeback, but others really deserve it in my view

So what forces would you like to see back?

For me, in 40K I'd love to see revamped Squats, not Demiurg, Squats, serious non-cartoony Squats, Mantic did their Forgefather's beautifully, why couldn't GW do some amazing Space Dwarfs.

Praetorians, they contrasted with the Grimdark setting, but in a nice way, they weren't as serious as the other armies, they were only a minor part and the models did look beautiful

For Fantasy first and foremost are the forces of Kislev, Boris Ursus is one of my all time favorite models and I'm still desperately trying to get hold of him, then if you expanded that model set a bit and brought back the old models, I'd sell my other armies for a huge Kislev force

Secondly and close behind are the Zoats, now yes there were Zoats in the SoM book, but I'd love to see a contingent of them, or some models at the very least. A druid, a few warriors, maybe some kind of giant monster

Thirdly, Fimir, now I know one appeared in the SoM and more are rumored for Monstrous Arcana, but again I'd love a full army of one of the few completely warhammer forces

What about you?

Me?

I would go back to the old RT era books, revamp the rules for every unit from Commisar Training Squads, to Khorne Stormtroopa's, to Chaos Squats, and open the doors of imagination by letting them loose as options

As to Fantasy? 3d Edition had several operational armies that have plenty of stuff that was never accessed.

Border Princes was only one of maybe 100+ options. Tilia, and the Mercianry forces, Lustria, Araby, Etc.etc.etc... There are literally unlimited choices.

THIER ISSUE?

Finecrap, pricing, and the head in the sand stance on thier own companies products past.

biccat wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:The term doesn't fit the more kid-ified mainstream facelift that 40K has been given. Cults corrupting, enslaving and overthrowing people is not something GW wants kids talking about and risking parent ire.

Are you aware of the Grey Knights and Dark Eldar? They're at least as far from "kidified mainstream" as chaos cultists.

There is plenty of non-kid friendly armies and fluff in 40k, it's just not apparent on its face. Chaos cultists would be no different, to the casual observer they're simply humans on the Chaos side.

If you say the word "cult" to the averge person they have knowledge of the word and most likely a negative association with it. Not something GW marketing wants kids throwing around and potentially turning off parents with.

Yes GW still contains elements of such things, but the more grim elements of the 40K universe used to be a little more at the forefront, and now are often glossed over.


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biccat wrote:

Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.

And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...

A game of 40K featuring a genestealer cult force would represeng a time when they have been force to fight for some reason (often rooted out by the Imeperial forces and put to the sword). A little imagination helps when considering why things might be fighting...

I would love to see Albion explored a lot more - I like the idea of a human barbarian/celtic faction. It would be a rich source of fluff and imagery. I'm thinking chariots, druids, giants, stone circles, blue warpaint... Equal parts Conan and Braveheart, with a bit of Slaine thrown in for good measure. There's a wealth of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon mythology to draw on.

I would envision Warhammer Armies: Albion as lightly-armoured hit-and-run army that packs a serious punch in CC, and would be magic heavy. Wild and savage warriors lead by druids tearing out of the forest to ambush invaders, that sort of vibe.

I'd sell all my other armies to start collecting Albion if GW ever got round to it.

CT GAMER wrote:If you say the word "cult" to the averge person they have knowledge of the word and most likely a negative association with it. Not something GW marketing wants kids throwing around and potentially turning off parents with.

But when little Jimmy yells "Burn the Heretic!" or "Death to the False Emperor," or "Blood for the Blood God" it's not going to turn off parents?

Fact is, 40k is reasonably grimdark. Not as grimdark as it used to be, but still pretty grimdark.

CT GAMER wrote:

biccat wrote:Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.

And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...

Except Necrons could be an army. Genestealers aren't a stand-alone group, they're a subgroup of Tyranids, who are already represented in the game.

biccat wrote:

Fact is, 40k is reasonably grimdark. Not as grimdark as it used to be, but still pretty grimdark.

Yeah, thats what I said.

Except Necrons could be an army. Genestealers aren't a stand-alone group, they're a subgroup of Tyranids, who are already represented in the game.

If your logic was used we would have one marine codex nd no chapter specific ones...

Genestealer cultists have less in common with tyranids then vanilla marines and all the specialty marine codexes have in common yet we gets tons of marine codexes...

Cultist armies would add some needed variety, flavor and modeling opportunities to the game/hobby. Far more then yet another marine codex. But then we all know that such things are not really what motivates GW in regards to 40K. So like I said: I doubt we will ever see a cult codex of any kind...

CT GAMER wrote:

biccat wrote:

Fact is, 40k is reasonably grimdark. Not as grimdark as it used to be, but still pretty grimdark.

Yeah, thats what I said.

Well, then I agree.

But that doesn't mean parents would freak out and GW would lose their entire market if "Chaos Cultists" suddenly appeared on the store shelf.

CT GAMER wrote:If your logic was used we would have one marine codex nd no chapter specific ones...

A man can dream...

Competitive Tau

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biccat wrote:

Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.

And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...

A game of 40K featuring a genestealer cult force would represeng a time when they have been force to fight for some reason (often rooted out by the Imeperial forces and put to the sword). A little imagination helps when considering why things might be fighting...

I don't think any should return and it would probably be best if they dropped a few more. GW doesn't seem to be able or willing to support all of thier armies for each edition. So it would make sense to only have about eight or so armies per game.

Crimson Devil wrote:I don't think any should return and it would probably be best if they dropped a few more. GW doesn't seem to be able or willing to support all of thier armies for each edition. So it would make sense to only have about eight or so armies per game.

Right, so lets drop all the non-vanilla marines for starters....

I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.

Justification already exists for the use of Genestealer cults as an army, and has done for years. For that matter most of the old flavour had justification for its existence. Mountains of fluff, most of it substantially better thought out than the Ward-ese gibber.

Crimson Devil wrote:I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.

I did quote you, was it it really that hard to figure out?

Adeptus Arbites and Catachans.

CT GAMER wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.

I did quote you, was it it really that hard to figure out?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.

I would love to see a return of the Genestealer cults. GS are advance scouts for the nids, just do what they did in the old books. Infest a planet, start up a 'cult of the 6 armed emperor' and the Patriarch sends out a psychic signal to the hive fleets that 'here be food'. Whats so complicated about that? Think of all the different modeling options that can be used.

I would also like to see a Lost and the Dammed kind of renegade PDF,IG,chaos cults kind of codex. The only problem with both of these suggestions is that you couldn't sell a entire model line and there would be alot of scratch building and converting, so the bean counters would consider them a failure and not making there money back.


Sadly this is how GW operates and has for a long time now. But hey one could wish eh? Just like I wish every friday that the 6 numbers I have picked are the winning lotto numbers....

Pumpkin wrote:40K:-
Genestealer Cults
The Lost and the Damned

Just to clarify, I'd love for LatD to have their own codex, but I'd prefer for the GS Cult to be added as part of the Tyranids codex.

Squats!

biccat wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:If you say the word "cult" to the averge person they have knowledge of the word and most likely a negative association with it. Not something GW marketing wants kids throwing around and potentially turning off parents with.

But when little Jimmy yells "Burn the Heretic!" or "Death to the False Emperor," or "Blood for the Blood God" it's not going to turn off parents?

Silly man. Didn't your parents ever lull you to sleep with "Blood for the Blood God" when you were a young'un? Perfectly acceptable.

CT GAMER wrote:

biccat wrote:Genestealers simply don't work as an army, they're an advance infiltration force.

And necrons used to be small scattered groups of nameless evil robots that came out of a disturbed tomb in isolated incidents best suited for kill team sized games...

Except Necrons could be an army. Genestealers aren't a stand-alone group, they're a subgroup of Tyranids, who are already represented in the game.

Because GW don't obsess over subgroups all the time, what with there being about six different Space Marine Codex's

Crimson Devil wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:I guess that is suppose to be a dig at me. A single marine codex wouldn't bother me at all.

I did quote you, was it it really that hard to figure out?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.

I think you should both be nice to each other.


Else something bad might happen.

^Like!

I don't the derision for Genestealer cults. What would be good is a big old book of cults, be they chaotic, secessionist, genestealer or otherwise. That would be way cool.

Tek wrote:^Like!

I don't the derision for Genestealer cults. What would be good is a big old book of cults, be they chaotic, secessionist, genestealer or otherwise. That would be way cool.

Seconded!

40K
Genestealer Cults - I'd get one, no doubt, do the limos and a good mix of figs, mix with Imperial Guard, would be awesome.
Squats - In a game that is basically at its heart fantasy in space, the lack of Dwarves is odd, I liked the range, and the concepts they had, I really can't understand what they gained from canning the army. Anyone who suggests game balance could be effected by too many armies, pause for a moment, consider we are talking about 40K, now.. facepalm.
Adepticus Mechanicus - Anyone else still hurting that they teased us with rules for this army, some what.. fourteen/fifteen? years ago. Where is it, its an great idea, could ally with Guard or Marines, (on a collecting level if not an actual rules level) and has the same advantage for Chaos players that they can make up a Chaos version.
Mercenaries - Thanks to various novels, and short pieces of info there are a few races I'd love to see turn up, as mercs, allies whatever. Bargesi, Luxoal (no idea on thos two spellings) to name a couple.

Fantasy
Chaos - Aye, I can sorta get the three army books on one level, but I still prefer Chaos the old way. My suggestion is, a fourth book using Archaon as the poster boy, and based around the idea of a unified Chaos army. Drop some units so the other three books have a couple of special things unique to them, and allow folks to field a combined force if they so wish.
Fimir - Okay needs a fluff change regarding one area, but then GW has done plenty of that over the years anyways, they where a odd and unique race for GW, and my Heroquest game is pointing at the contents and making rude gestures at the fact they currently don't exist in Warhammer.

Crimson Devil wrote:

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.

I could care less...

You are free to post whatever you want, that is between you and the mods.

CT GAMER wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.

I could care less...

You mean couldn't. Unless you are saying that you do care at least a little bit in which case that's OK.

As for my thoughts on the topic at hand, I'd like to see the Imperial Guard, Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus put into one book (Codex: Imperium), then Chaos be expanded so that it includes cultists and traitor guard (again in one book).

Genestealer cults would be best as an inclusion in the Tyranid codex as their fluff indicates that they are an infiltration force, though they will fight if they have no option of remaining hidden.

Squats I'm not too fussed about. With most of the races showing vast levels of technological power I don't see how you could put Space Dwarfs into that whilst maintaining their expected fluff (master engineers) without making their technology so powerful that they could easily wipe everyone else out.

I've said this once but it is worth saying again Valhallan Ice Warriors. I know they add nothing to the game but to me they would be the only reason to start a guard army. If only there were good plastics.

Even if Forgeworld decided to do some resin models that would probably be enough for me too.

That or Genestealer cults ...

I would say Exodite Eldar would also be good. Really depends on the art style they have for them. Not sure a flower power girl warriors really flies in the grimdark.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I can be far more inflammatory in my responses toward you if you like.

I could care less...

You mean couldn't. Unless you are saying that you do care at least a little bit in which case that's OK.

“I could care less” is one of those idiomatic expressions, particularly in American English, that doesn’t necessarily mean what it says. There are numerous suggestions for the origin of the phrase. The most recent of these is that “I could care less” is a corruption of the term “I couldn’t care less,” possibly first used in the UK in the 1940s. By the 1960s, Americans had adopted “I could care less.” Was it laziness, poor hearing or deliberate irony?

Many contend it was laziness, much like the phrase “a hot cup of coffee,” changing to, "who wants a hot cup?" Most people would prefer to have a cup of hot coffee, or eat their cake and have it too. Simple reversals or omissions of words can result in phrases like “I could care less,” when what you really mean is you don’t care at all.

Now, if the English lesson is over then maybe we could get back to the topic at hand.

A number of cult codexes are available on the web, and a new one pops up now and then, but I don't think we will see an official one. Maybe GW will do a WD dex at least, though I think even that is unlikely...

scipio.au wrote:


Well, the Genestealers have had a LOT of retconning in their days, and cult forces (both GS and Chaos) worked thematically in both a "they've found us - get the weapons!" and in a "we're taking over, our Coup starts now! - wake the sleepers!" sense. I understand that Humans are pretty well represented in the game as well. Which one of their forces should we keep?

Perhaps we could reduce the 6 marine codices down to perhaps 3? Use the other 3 for: Genestealer Cults (simple fluff rewrite to state they sometime 'slip the leash' of the hive mind due to their time away as an independent species), Chaos Cults and the third could be a new race (the bimorphic Thexian Elite sounded interesting).

I would say, cut down on some armies...

Like it has been said Codex: Imperium and Codex: Space Marines would be enough for the IoM.

Like it has been said Codex: Lost and the Damned and Codex: Chaos Space Marines would be enough for the Forces of Chaos

Necron, Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Nids are all good as they are.

A compilation codex for renegades and mutants (non chaos related) would be nice. How about Codex: Renegades?

Another idea would be for Codex: Outer Reaches. This would be based around the various odd things in the 40k Universe.

Same concept goes for fantasy.

I have had dreams of an expansion focusing on small battles with specialized forces you wouldn't usually see at army strength, like Adeptus Arbites, Genestealer Cults, and the like. I never see it happening, but it would make me so happy if it could.

Brother SRM wrote:I have had dreams of an expansion focusing on small battles with specialized forces you wouldn't usually see at army strength, like Adeptus Arbites, Genestealer Cults, and the like. I never see it happening, but it would make me so happy if it could.

Every time somebody makes a suggestion like this, it reminds me that I should so get into Necromunda one of these days. <3

Config2 wrote:I would say, cut down on some armies...
Like it has been said Codex: Imperium and Codex: Space Marines would be enough for the IoM.
Like it has been said Codex: Lost and the Damned and Codex: Chaos Space Marines would be enough for the Forces of Chaos
Necron, Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Nids are all good as they are.
A compilation codex for renegades and mutants (non chaos related) would be nice. How about Codex: Renegades?
Another idea would be for Codex: Outer Reaches. This would be based around the various odd things in the 40k Universe.

Same concept goes for fantasy.

GW keeps going from one extreme to the other every few years - they're quite schizophrenic that way. Anyone remember Codex: Craftworld Eldar? Codex: Assassins? Codex: Angels of Death? Codex: Catachans? Eye of Terror, Armageddon - things get brought out as new sub-codices then split off into their own books, then rolled back into a "mother" book. Mini-codices for half the armies, then full-sized ones. It seems that Marine codices get split off and eventually become fully-fledged army books. others get rolled back in. Why? Because Space Marines sell more models than the rest of the range.

Bring back Dogs of War.

Cheers

Andrew

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:40K
Squats - In a game that is basically at its heart fantasy in space, the lack of Dwarves is odd, I liked the range, and the concepts they had, I really can't understand what they gained from canning the army. Anyone who suggests game balance could be effected by too many armies, pause for a moment, consider we are talking about 40K, now.. facepalm.

I agree completely! As it happens, they are already here...



As was pointed out to me on another forum, the units in the Mantic Forgefather range can more or less perfectly tie up with the SM codex; Tactical units, devestators, scouts, terminators, even tanks.

It might well be that Demiug surface somewhere down the line as part of Tau Empire, but even if they do it will probably be just one character and one unit, making the prospect of an army of them tedious (and most likely expensive) to the extreme.

I'm all for more use of imagination in games and more freedom for the modeller and converter, and I often make use of 'counts as' armies although with some effort to make sure the force is intuitive to what my opponent will expect. Although 'counts as' has got a bit of a bad rep because of the number of half-assed codex bandwagoning armies (generally fielded by kids who read BoLS too much but don't have the cash to support the lifestyle), this isn't the case if you put some effort into it and I generally never have to wait for a game come club night (although that might also have something to do with my reputation as a general )

In general terms, the Forgeworld books have been an absolute godsend for the veteran 40k gamer. They are basically all of the cool stuff that has been removed from the sporadically released official codecies (which are only there to sell in bulk whatever plastic sets are newly released with that edition), the FW books are written with the hobbyist, someone who spends perhaps more time than they should on this kind of thing, in mind.

I see a long list of laments in this thread about the armies lost to time. What I always try to reinforce is that many of those armies are still perfectly fieldable - either through the FW books (even Genestealer cults), or if you are lucky enough to have an open-minded gaming circle, then through homemade rules. "There is no codex for it" should never be a control over your imagination or your desires as a hobbyist in my opinion.

Old genestealer fluff is so complete and interesting that Genestealers and Gene Cults alone would make a amazing good dex, the potential is there and I hope that one day they rise again. The way they are today represented in 40k is so simplistic and basic that its like you reduce a spacemarine chapter to one page.
With them bring the Zoats and beastmen in space to help the gene cause.

Pacific wrote:

I see a long list of laments in this thread about the armies lost to time. What I always try to reinforce is that many of those armies are still perfectly fieldable - either through the FW books (even Genestealer cults), or if you are lucky enough to have an open-minded gaming circle, then through homemade rules. "There is no codex for it" should never be a control over your imagination or your desires as a hobbyist in my opinion.

This, a very good point well made. If there were more of these the world would be just a little brighter, me thinks.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:I would also like to see a Lost and the Dammed kind of renegade PDF,IG,chaos cults kind of codex. The only problem with both of these suggestions is that you couldn't sell a entire model line and there would be alot of scratch building and converting, so the bean counters would consider them a failure and not making there money back.

How many Chaos Space Marine kits are basically the regular version with a special sprue or two thrown in?

Also, it's potentially actually a really good deal for GW depending on how they look at it. The book production is a somewhat fixed cost (paying someone to do it, production, etc.) but the sclupting costs are a lot less than they'd be for a 'regular' project that would probably need 2-4 plastic kits and some FineCast pieces. They could get away with conversion sprue kits.

A 'Cultist' or 'Traitor' force would definitely invigorate the line. It'd be really cool if it had 2-4 variants so the one list could be used for Chaos cults, Genestealer cults, etc. Maybe a generic 'Heretic' variant for those that just are tired of paying taxes to the dead Emperor but haven't made a deal with Khorne yet, or a list for Tech Heretics whoa re delving into places 40k men shouldn't delve into. Do a base list, add 1-2 special characters and 1-2 special units for each variant.

Base list: Rabble (Troops, like the IG recruit choice), Convert Guardsmen (Troops, IG Squads), Fanatics (Elite, cheap berserker types), Light Truck (FA, troop transport or vulnerable gun truck), Leman Russ (Heavy, Tank), Cult Leader (HQ).

Squad options and Wargear would be somewhat genericly themed... So a Power Weapon could be a Chaos-blessed blade or a mutation to have a Tyranid claw.

Genestealer variant would add Hybrid Stealers (FA, melee unit), Full Genestealers (Elite 0-1 unit), Patriarch (Character)

Chaos Cult would add CSM Leader (character HQ), a CSM Squad (Elite), maybe a Raptor Squad or similar

Heretics could add a "Traitor General" (HQ similar to IG command), more units based off IG stuff (Sentinels, Chimeras, etc.)

Tech Heretics could have a Dark Techpriest (HQ), some sort of Battle Robots (Maybe Terminators, but with BS/WS 3)m and maybe a custom FA vehicle.

Tek wrote:^Like!

I don't the derision for Genestealer cults. What would be good is a big old book of cults, be they chaotic, secessionist, genestealer or otherwise. That would be way cool.

Totally agree. I'd love to see a Codex: Rebels. I'm sure there are plenty of disaffected groups in the galaxy!

Y'know, I once had an idea for a Codex: Squat Rebels. I saw them as being an abhuman faction (like Ogryn or Ratlings, ), and that the fluff would join them just as rebellions started to flare on imperial forgeworlds, and they were beginning to band into rebel armies.. Or something. I imagined Ogryn and Ratlings joining in, so maybe it should have been correctly titled Codex: Abhuman Rebels.

Kind of has a nice ring to it, actually...

CT GAMER wrote:Proper genestealer cults. Bring on the Hybrids!

Yes please! The fluff for that is just too weirdly cool not to have in the game.

Pacific wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:

Although I'm going off on a tangent here, I was quite pleased with the new Necron Codex, as it actually introduced some more complex narrative and motivation into the story beyond everyone saying "must kill", and behaving like a noob in a deathmatch, running forward attacking wildly until either they or their enemy are killed.

The new necron codex was Ward firing a retcon cannon at the current fluff and showing tomb king filler into it.