Have any SoB ever turned rogue or turned to chaos....I've never heard of sisters turning.
Please comment

Yes, but not likely to happen...........

black templar wrote:Have any SoB ever turned rogue or turned to chaos....I've never heard of sisters turning.
Please comment

"A sign of the Sisters' strength is the fact that in their entire history only a single sister, Miriael Sabathiel, has fallen to the lure of Chaos. How Miriael fell is unknown, only that she was turned from the Emperor's light to Slaanesh worship, and now serves as one of the Prince of Chaos' greatest warriors."

2'nd and 3'rd edition SoB codex. Beside that one none has ever gone rough again.
Of course, there are great number of people here who imagine Sisters in worst Slaanesh BDSM action and to them Sister falling to Chaos is as normal as Grey Knight falling to Chaos.

They are basically baseline humans, so they can be turned, I can't think of any specific fluff instances where it happened. But in the first Grey Knights novel a sister mentions to Justicar Alaric that "I know no Grey Knight has turned, but some sisters have, it is rare and we don't like talking about it."

Or something to that effect, not the exact quote.

Depends on where you look, and what interpretation you choose to follow.

The first couple editions of 40k had them incorruptible, but like a lot of other things they have since surrendered this trait to a Marine Chapter (-> Grey Knights) and have "only" become difficult/rare to corrupt, with instances of where it happened being mentioned in some GW material such as the newest GK Codex or the Daemonifuge reference in Andy Hoare's Liber Sororitas WD article.

In general, their extremely strict lifestyle and religious zeal does not only make them harder to fall prey to the temptations of Chaos but would have them take their own lifes rather than being twisted into becoming servants of the great enemy.

That said, especially with 40k, nothing is ever impossible, and personally I would say that a certain risk of corruption is always sensible, as long as it doesn't get out of hand (like in certain Black Library novels who usually have them turn in every second book or so).

Corrupted Sisters being an extreme rarity (due to their mindset and conditioning as well as their comparatively low numbers to begin with) also makes cases like that of Chaos-Champion Miriael Sabathiel stand out as being all the more remarkable, so this is what I'm personally rolling with.

[edit]

Brother Coa wrote:"A sign of the Sisters' strength is the fact that in their entire history only a single sister, Miriael Sabathiel, has fallen to the lure of Chaos. How Miriael fell is unknown, only that she was turned from the Emperor's light to Slaanesh worship, and now serves as one of the Prince of Chaos' greatest warriors."
2'nd and 3'rd edition SoB codex.

Actually, do you happen to have a page number for that? I do know that Lexicanum claims it, and I even think I've read it in these books years ago, but I have both codices and for the Emperor's love I cannot find it in either one. I only have Abnett's short story on her, as well as the list of her rather impressive personal army.

Lynata wrote:Actually, do you happen to have a page number for that? I do know that Lexicanum claims it, and I even think I've read it in these books years ago, but I have both codices and for the Emperor's love I cannot find it in either one. I only have Abnett's short story on her, as well as the list of her rather impressive personal army.

I just downloaded 2'nd and 3'rd edition codex and can't find the info.
Is it possible that all are using Abnett's story and connect it to the codex?

Its' a piece of old fluff, so it's likely.

Still, the "chaos sisters" crowd has struck me to mostly be either losers interested in seeing a lot of women who worship Slaanesh or just more of the same boring, unoriginal, rehashed "omg chaos [noun]!" crap that you see everywhere.

Melissia wrote:Its' a piece of old fluff, so it's likely.

Still, the "chaos sisters" crowd has struck me to mostly be either losers interested in seeing a lot of women who worship Slaanesh or just more of the same boring, unoriginal, rehashed "omg chaos [noun]!" crap that you see everywhere.

It was just curiosity I wanted to know if they were as pure as Grey Knights.

black templar wrote:
It was just curiosity I wanted to know if they were as pure as Grey Knights.

Just read "Bloodtide" and you will see that Sister faith makes them more incorruptible then Grey Knights themselves.
Sisters survive because of their faith and Grey Knights kill them and paint themselves in their blood to protect themselves from corruption ( even dough they have superior training + armor while Sisters only had their faith to protect them ).

I thought Sisters succumbing to Chaos was a fairly regular occurring, especially in the Ward era...

No, that just them succumbing to Grey Knights.

Sisters of Battle turn to Chaos like a British person turns from tea. But less often.

As I see it...

- A Sister of Battle cannot be turned to Nurgle. Ever. Fullstop. Nurgle's methodology simply does not function against someone who possesses True Faith. You can't convince someone that they have been abandoned by the Emperor when it's a defining feature of the faction that they can call on literal miracles.

- If you want a bunch of SoB-like Slaanesh worshippers, use SoB wannabes. As I said in the other thread, there's a big difference between a willingness to suffer harm in order to achieve good and a willingness to suffer harm for its own sake, but this could easily be lost on a Red Redemption-style group that tries to ape the Sisters' doctrines.

- Tzeentch is right out.

- If you insist on having Sisters turn to chaos worship, Khorne only requires that you ignore one major trait, rather than all of them. This would be another good pick for Sisters wannabes, as the cultists emulate the Sisters' zeal in hunting witches.

The main point is that they are very hard to turn because they don't have traits of the regular Humans. Like pride, greed, lust... same as Grey Knights.

Guardsman usually turn because they know what's better and they want better, or they simply want to get better status in Chaos or Tau ranks.

Marines usually turn because of quest for more power for individual or personal pride or simply because they love to slaughter things.

Sisters don't have any of that. Most of them were raised as orphans and Imperial Church and the Emperor is the only thing they know about. They don't have needs like ordinary Humans ( even if Marines are superhumans, they still have Human emotions and weaknesses ) and because of that they are very hard/nearly impossible to corrupt.

The way I see it is sisters are extremely hard to corrupt, but can be, like the ones in Daemonifuge, but only one has willingly embraced Chaos, which is Miriael.

There's that possessed Sister in Daemonifuge to, but even possession can be forced on someone.

The chaos sister is a bad idea. It boils down to people having a cocaine snorting, lesbian nun orgy fetish. And no. Leave that gak out of 40k. Bloody perverts. Some neckbeard at my flgs actually said he wanted to do chaos sisters for that reason, well minus cocaine. I mean its not really slaneshi with out cocaine.

Because of that one time it sort of happened, but instead of being like that they worship Slaanesh and lead a warband of cultists.

The way I see it is that it is possible, but not as a full force. Rather get some cultists, the IG codex and convert up one or two to call the shots.

To the best of my knowledge only one has willingly turned. Some have been misguided or used, ala a corrupt inquisitor to fight against the will of the Emperor but only one has willingly turned.

So stop it fanboys, you're giving us a bad name

In one of the Ciaphis Cain books, a group of sisters are turned. The chaos warlord has the ability to control the minds of anyone he comes close to. So they don't willingly turn but result is the same.

I don't see why they couldn't though, 40K universe is big enough fluff wise for you to make whatever you like happen.

The sisters in the that novel immediately kill themselves when their minds were released. They are in a similar posiiton to a Sister in the recent novel (*)

Only one has turned willingly that I am aware of as detailed earlier in the thread.

humans and even Marines turning to Chaos is far more common as are Inquisitors and pretty much everyone else in the 40k universe.

more Primarchs have fallen than Sisters.........

(*)

Yup throw themselves off a dam IIRC.

But for army fluff it wouldstill work and like said they still turned (well forced to turn)

SpankHammer III wrote:
I don't see why they couldn't though, 40K universe is big enough fluff wise for you to make whatever you like happen.

So my story about Grey Knights and Chaos Daemons fighting side by side against Necron threat can happen?
Cool

Only if the Blood Angels show to help out the Necrons and Calgar does a back flip through a battle barge causing a shock wave to be sent through the immaterium which restores the Emperor.


Reductio ad absurdum; the fun fallacy.

So my story about Grey Knights and Chaos Daemons fighting side by side against Necron threat can happen?
Cool

yeah you watch from black library next year

Mr Morden wrote:Only one has turned willingly that I am aware of as detailed earlier in the thread.

Well, I wouldn't really describe months of imprisonment at the hands of the Emperor's Children - likely involving unspeakable acts of torture, abuse, drugging and daemonic corruption - as "willingly". In her background, Miriael was described as one of the best of her Order, which should go a long way of describing one's willpower and mental fortitude (or indoctrination, if you will).

I think it's a mistake to assume there was anything special about Miriael's case just for the sake of trying to maintain a continuity between various instances where one may have read about corrupted Sisters - as said continuity isn't supposed to exist in the first place. The only official source detailing her background, Abnett's short story, simply treats her as the only Sister who was ever corrupted, which is inherently incompatible to all the other stuff.

One could, of course, still claim that this is just what the characters in the story know, as her Canoness is pretty determined to cover it up, travelling anonymously with just two Sisters as backup and entering the local palace through the back door to bully the governor into silence. Which would beg the question if any of this may have ever happened before (at least in the story's own continuity). Miriael is simply very good in that she not only survives the attempt to put her down but goes on to amass her own personal army consisting of at least one Inferno-class battleship, a bunch of Emperor's Children CSMs including Terminator bodyguards, Daemonettes and countless cultists.

SpankHammer III wrote:I don't see why they couldn't though, 40K universe is big enough fluff wise for you to make whatever you like happen.

Not to mention all the different interpretations of the various authors, especially once you factor in licensed material. The more authors you have in the pool, the more ideas and opinions you will get on any given subject. I think the Black Library has three different kinds of Sisters by now.

opps, Ok not actually read her story (as least not that I recall - so very many BL books in my collection and getting old) - just picked up bits and pieces - where is the story - is it still available?

I still like the line:

More Primarchs have fallen than Sisters....

It has since been re-released in the short story anthology Takes from the Dark Millennium, but also used to be available on the Sabertooth website, as it accompanied the 40k TCG. The German version of Lexicanum's article on it has small scans from all the cards, offering a glimpse at Miriael's role and the forces at her disposal.

Regarding the story itself, you can also read it here!

Small excerpt:

The Invitation wrote:"There were three incidents, mass-killings. The perpetrator made a great effort to suggest they were the work of a battle-sister."

He paused, and looked at the Canoness and her guards. "A battle-sister of the Order of the Martyred lady," he emphasised. "A battle-sister... corrupted."

The three veiled women remained silent.

"I knew this was impossible," Curtz went on. "Absolutely impossible. Your kind - forgive me, great lady - your kind are incorruptible. I made a careful study of the archives to reinforce my opinion. History shows us many horrors, but never a battle-sister fallen. That was when I realised it was a sham. Lunacy in fact. I suspected that it was matter of blasphemy. You are no doubt aware that the Pyrus Reach is greatly conflicted of late. Terrible times, and the poison of it, I’m glad to say, is slow to reach us. Sometimes being a backwater has its benefits. I supposed that some miscreant desired to stain the Order’s name by committing these crimes, to engender unrest and panic. I sent the reports to alert you to the defamation."

He paused. Still, the three women remained silent.

"Now... now, I’m not so sure."

"Because?" asked the Canoness.

"Because you’re here."

Pretty awesome story. Shame that the character of Miriael was never picked up again beyond the TCG - I heard rumours she was supposed to become a special character once ... alas, unlike Ephrael Stern, she never even received her own miniature.

SpankHammer III wrote:In one of the Ciaphis Cain books, a group of sisters are turned.

They were mind controlled. This is not the same as turning to the worship of Chaos.

A puppet does not have conscious thought and does not make decisions. Dress a puppet up in drag and that doesn't mean it's a gay puppet, it just means its owner is a fething weirdo.

Mind controlling a Sister and making her carve chaos symbols in to her body would leave permanent corruption on the body, but she would sooner die than actually worship Chaos

At a left turn signal they do....


All jokes aside, basically anyone can turn, IG, SM, Inquisitors. I think the only ones where there hasn't been a recorded incident of them turning is probably the Grey Knights

I'm talking about the Imperium here, in case you guys havent' noticed

Lynata wrote:It has since been re-released in the short story anthology Takes from the Dark Millennium, but also used to be available on the Sabertooth website, as it accompanied the 40k TCG. The German version of Lexicanum's article on it has small scans from all the cards, offering a glimpse at Miriael's role and the forces at her disposal.

Regarding the story itself, you can also read it here!

Small excerpt:

The Invitation wrote:"There were three incidents, mass-killings. The perpetrator made a great effort to suggest they were the work of a battle-sister."

He paused, and looked at the Canoness and her guards. "A battle-sister of the Order of the Martyred lady," he emphasised. "A battle-sister... corrupted."

The three veiled women remained silent.

"I knew this was impossible," Curtz went on. "Absolutely impossible. Your kind - forgive me, great lady - your kind are incorruptible. I made a careful study of the archives to reinforce my opinion. History shows us many horrors, but never a battle-sister fallen. That was when I realised it was a sham. Lunacy in fact. I suspected that it was matter of blasphemy. You are no doubt aware that the Pyrus Reach is greatly conflicted of late. Terrible times, and the poison of it, I’m glad to say, is slow to reach us. Sometimes being a backwater has its benefits. I supposed that some miscreant desired to stain the Order’s name by committing these crimes, to engender unrest and panic. I sent the reports to alert you to the defamation."

He paused. Still, the three women remained silent.

"Now... now, I’m not so sure."

"Because?" asked the Canoness.

"Because you’re here."

Pretty awesome story. Shame that the character of Miriael was never picked up again beyond the TCG - I heard rumours she was supposed to become a special character once ... alas, unlike Ephrael Stern, she never even received her own miniature.

Thanks for all the info - I have a nagging feeling that I actually have her card for the CCG - will have to have a look and a read of the links

Well sometimes they go bi, but probably not all the way...

GK codex p15 bloodtide also mentioned "some sisters were corrupted the instant they touched the blood etc etc"

does that count?

That's what Harriticus and Brother Coa were referring to, yeah. Seems like Ward really didn't like the incorruptible trait.
Interestingly, that piece of fluff would also remove it from the Grey Knights, considering what it hints at would have been happening, were the GKs not to stumble upon a bunch of pure Sisters they could sacrifice for protection.

It did seem like a Khorne thing for them to do though...

One of many reasons why I don't like that bit of fluff in the GK codex - however it has been debated at length...........still don't like it.......

n0t_u wrote:It did seem like a Khorne thing for them to do though...

I believe that Khorne himself LHAO when he read it

Perhaps even considered throwing a thumbs up in Tzeentch's direction.

Lynata wrote:That's what Harriticus and Brother Coa were referring to, yeah. Seems like Ward really didn't like the incorruptible trait.

Ward just seems to not like the SoB at all.

Lynata wrote:Interestingly, that piece of fluff would also remove it from the Grey Knights, considering what it hints at would have been happening, were the GKs not to stumble upon a bunch of pure Sisters they could sacrifice for protection.

Ward is kind of a moron like that. But then again, Ka'jagga'nath is beaten by a small group of Grey Knights when it has been shown twice that he is superior to anyone except the most skilled Primarch.

Out of all of the fluff that should be retconned or rewritten, the Bloodtide Returns is on the top of that list.

They could turn rogue while they consider themselves loyal to the Imperium and are convinced that the opposing force consists of heretics or are mislead by them.

Like an unidentified troop enters the system and attempts to exterminate all strategic assets that are to be protected at all costs, while parading as loyalists.
However an joint force of IG, SM, Deathwatch and SoB manages to intercept and destroy the traitor force.

Hmm, that's not really rogue, considering they'd still see themselves as loyal elements of the Church and the Imperium. They do that sort of stuff all the time; at least one of the Orders Militant has gained quite the reputation for bloody sweeps through other Imperial forces. Not to mention the things that can happen when you're under command of some Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor.

You bring me to an interesting idea, though: What if they were to really turn rogue and fight an Imperial government which they deem corrupted and/or composed of heretics. Not that I see this happening anytime in the near future, given the current political situation, but still.

Sisters of Battle used to be incorruptible, but "Daemonifuge", Matt Ward's "Grey Knights" codex, and Sandy Mitchell's "Cains Last Stand" took a dump on SoB fluff. So to answer op's question, yes. It's possible, but rarely happens.

I personally fancy the idea of Slaanesh SoB cult, but that's just me.

Lynata wrote:You bring me to an interesting idea, though: What if they were to really turn rogue and fight an Imperial government which they deem corrupted and/or composed of heretics. Not that I see this happening anytime in the near future, given the current political situation, but still.

That's something I've considered using for my own order's fluff, especially considering how the sororitas tend to be treated in the fluff, even by other imperial forces. Perhaps throw in a few inquisitors and bureaucrats who are obviously operating more out of greed than loyalty, and you could conceivably have a small force deciding that the Imperium, (or the parts that they are familiar with and take to represent the rest of it) is no longer serving in the best interests of the Emperor.

And Tzeentch laughs quietly in the background.

I'll admit I'm nowhere up to snuff when it comes to intimate familiarity with the background though, so maybe it wouldn't make that much sense after all.

As has been mentioned a million times, there is a big difference between corruption of the body (which GK and SOB have always been susceptible to... example, breath of chaos, etc.) and corruption of the spirit (which GK and SOB are strongly resistent to with one known SOB having succumbed). Bloodtide was corruption of the body.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, make that two, I forgot about the corrupted SOB in Daemonifuge.

pretre wrote:Bloodtide was corruption of the body.

Bloodtide is a machine from DAoT that makes your blood boil, it even killed a Space Marine.
Raven Guard destroyed it forever, and without STC how to build it it was lost forever for everyone.
Matt Ward Bloodtide summon daemons to reality and corrupt people into killing each other, he based it on a movie.

Brother Coa wrote:

pretre wrote:Bloodtide was corruption of the body.

Bloodtide is a machine from DAoT that makes your blood boil, it even killed a Space Marine.
Raven Guard destroyed it forever, and without STC how to build it it was lost forever for everyone.
Matt Ward Bloodtide summon daemons to reality and corrupt people into killing each other, he based it on a movie.

what's DAoT?

Dark Age of Technology.

To OP, sure, the Sisters turn all the time. If you want to do a chaos army of the Sisters go for it!

Darthslowe wrote:To OP, sure, the Sisters turn all the time. If you want to do a chaos army of the Sisters go for it!

No, they don't. Do whatever you want with your army, but people who make Chaos Sisters of Battle armies have no imagination and are violating the fluff without exception.

They're free to do what they want to their models, after all they bought them-- but I'm also free to call them trash, as they invariably are, and call the fluff for their army trashy as it invariably is.

Chaos Sisters armies are akin to Chaos Grey Knights or female Space Marines-- just plain bad ideas. Sisters of Battle falling to Chaos are either totally nonexistent or incredibly rare, and the idea of an entire army of them is absurd.

On the other hand, Sisters turning into bi-curious nymphomaniacs is entirely possible and actually quite common in the fluff, as portrayed in the Codex Literoticus, AKA Fanfiction.net.

As I mentioned before - you could def have a Chaos army that mock the duaghters of the Emperor by using looted armour etc. They would not be turned Sisters but Chaos Warlords would likely enjoy this sort of thing....

Zefig wrote:That's something I've considered using for my own order's fluff, especially considering how the sororitas tend to be treated in the fluff, even by other imperial forces. Perhaps throw in a few inquisitors and bureaucrats who are obviously operating more out of greed than loyalty, and you could conceivably have a small force deciding that the Imperium, (or the parts that they are familiar with and take to represent the rest of it) is no longer serving in the best interests of the Emperor. [...]

I'll admit I'm nowhere up to snuff when it comes to intimate familiarity with the background though, so maybe it wouldn't make that much sense after all.

Mhmm. Personally, the problem that I'd see is that the Sisters seem to be very connected to the Sororitas as an organization and the Ecclesiarchy at large, with each Minor Order answering to a Major one, who all have their HQ on either Terra or Ophelia VII. They can act very independently (going by the bits of fluff released on the Armageddon campaign website), but for them to act against the Ecclesiarch, this would require a major incident convincing even the two head Prioresses that there's something wrong with the Church per se, basically a shism between Sisters and Ecclesiarchy as a whole.

That said, I suppose there would be an option to go for some very remote Order Minoris that has been out of contact with its maternal organization for an extended time, and/or where local Imperial forces are "acting strange", which created an extremely distrustful relationship between this outpost and other Imperials. I would imagine that any campaign of "purifying skirmishes" would come to halt after some time as the central authorities are notified of the situation, but given the fickle nature of the warp and the sometimes unreliable nature of astropathic transmissions, it could well take an entire decade to clear up the confusion - or even more. In theory, you could also isolate this area of space from the Imperium at large by a warp storm.

Alternatively, to provide a somewhat more reliable narrative, there would be the option to forego any Sororitas involvement and instead concentrate on an Apostate Cardinal, who raised his own army of militia and rogue military to go on a personal crusade against what he deems to be corrupted worlds. The newest WD Minidex sadly does not provide a lot of options in this regard, but you could always work with "counts as" miniatures.

pretre wrote:Oh, make that two, I forgot about the corrupted SOB in Daemonifuge.

Daemonifuge even had an entire convent of Sisters whose spirits were corrupted by a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Asteroth
This event was even referenced in Andy Hoare's "Liber Sororitas", a White Dwarf article dealing with the Sisterhood's Minor Orders.
That said, those were Sisters Pronatus, not Sisters of Battle - not sure if there should be a difference, though. If anything, the Sisters Pronatus should be even more resilient to Chaos, given that they are subjected to blasphemous items on a regular and far more intimate basis in their line of work.

Fetterkey wrote:Chaos Sisters armies are akin to Chaos Grey Knights or female Space Marines-- just plain bad ideas. Sisters of Battle falling to Chaos are either totally nonexistent or incredibly rare, and the idea of an entire army of them is absurd.

Personally, I like the idea of a single corrupted SoB as some sort of unique character in the HQ unit of a CSM army, if you want to give it a special touch. Miriael-style, so to say. I've seen a truly amazing conversion from some Frenchman once, but cannot find the picture anymore. :/

Melissia wrote:

Darthslowe wrote:To OP, sure, the Sisters turn all the time. If you want to do a chaos army of the Sisters go for it!

No, they don't. Do whatever you want with your army, but people who make Chaos Sisters of Battle armies have no imagination and are violating the fluff without exception.

They're free to do what they want to their models, after all they bought them-- but I'm also free to call them trash, as they invariably are, and call the fluff for their army trashy as it invariably is.

This is silly. People that stick to the fluff are the ones that have no imagination. If you need a company to define what you can and can't do that is rather pathetic. What we know from the fluff is limited and is quite narrow in scope. The galaxy is a big place. I'm sure pretty much anything you want can have happened. Also, Melissia, there is no need to be a cranky pants. Your attitude is indicative of an elitist attitude that fluff fascists tend to have, i.e. saying that everybody else's ideas are terrible and they have to stick to what the interwebs have told them. It's a game.

Edited for my idiotic grammar.

Darthslowe wrote:People that stick to the fluff are the ones that have no imagination.

I object this assessment. It's perfectly possible to do a cool and interesting concept without violating a setting's established background.

That said, this isn't Star Wars with an established canon policy. We have fluff making corrupted Sisters rare and we have fluff for the opposite. Just choose one of the many interpretations you like and roll with it. Personally, I would deem a full Chaos Sisters army to be quite cliché and violating the spirit of the faction, but this is merely a question of preferences, and as Gav Thorpe said, "none of it is wrong".

Darthslowe wrote:
This is silly. People that stick to the fluff are the ones that have no imagination. If you need a company to define what you can and can't do that is rather pathetic. What we know from the fluff is limited and is quite narrow in scope. The galaxy is a big place. I'm sure pretty much anything you want can have happened. Also, Melissia, there is no need to be a cranky pants. Your attitude is indicative of an elitist attitude that fluff fascists tend to have, i.e. saying that everybody else's ideas are terrible and they have to stick to what the interwebs have told them. It's a game.

She is right, if you want your own army - fine. But you must follow fluff for it is fundamental to all 40k. And some things just can't go together.
Making Chaos Battle Sisters is like making Chaos Grey Knights or Tyranid Necrons or Chaos Loyalists - simply impossible.
We all suffer Ward's horrors stories we don't need yet another guy with brilliant ideas for the fluff.

There's nothing wrong with Chaos SoBs.

If you can't handle that idea, then maybe 40k isn't the game for you. FoW might be in your ballpark.

I've faced a Chaos army converted to be a hockey team with santa claus-bloodletters. (his rhinos had zambonies )

I've faced Tyranids who wear cowboy hats and swing lassos.

I've even faced female space wolves.

The fluff is a basic guideline. If you try to stick to it you will go mad.

Darthslowe wrote:People that stick to the fluff are the ones that have no imagination.

People who just add "chaos" before the name fo any army and say that's what their army is have no imagination at all.

Darthslowe wrote:If you need a company to define what you can and can't do that is rather pathetic.

If you're so unimaginative that the only concept you can think of for a new army is to add "chaos" as a descriptor to a previously existing army then you probably should let someone else come up with your concept.

Darthslowe wrote:What we know from the fluff is limited and is quite narrow in scope.

IT's quite specific.

Darthslowe wrote:Your attitude is indicative of an elitist attitude

No, my attitude is indictive of me being tired of boring ass chaos players trying to add "chaos" before the name of every army in the game.

DeffDred wrote:There's nothing wrong with Chaos SoBs.

There's tons wrong with Chaos Sisters of Battle. It's cliche, it's bland, it's overdone, it's misogynistic, it's unimaginative, it's anathema to the lore, it's stupid, and worst of all it's just plain boring the same way all of the other "take an army and add chaos" ideas are. So far we've seen people asking for Chaos Sisters, Chaos Grey Knights, Chaos Orks, Chaos Tyranids, Chaos Tau, Chaos Necrons, on a different forum I saw Chaos Custodes, and probably plenty of others. It's like these are the lowest common denominator of Chaos players, who have no imagination so all they do is copy-paste everyone else's army and claim it as their own instead.

I outright refuse to respect their ideas, even if I respect the fact that it's their models and they can do whatever they want with them. Their ideas suck and I will point this out gladly and frequently.

If you're so unimaginative that the only concept you can think of for a new army is to add "chaos" as a descriptor to a previously existing army then you probably should let someone else come up with your concept.

Because DARK Eldar is way more imaginative.

DeffDred wrote:

If you're so unimaginative that the only concept you can think of for a new army is to add "chaos" as a descriptor to a previously existing army then you probably should let someone else come up with your concept.

Because DARK Eldar is way more imaginative.

Dark Eldar are Eldar who are continuing their old traditions and refusing to adopt the new ones-- even going so far as to feed souls to the thirsting god/dess that hunts them so that they can keep the hedonistic lifestyles their society had in the past, holding on to the ancient legacies of their forebears even if they do so in vain. The moniker "dark" is something humans added to distinguish the group, when a more accurate descriptor would be traditionalists, but I suppose most people wouldn't care about that sort of semantics. You can claim that the schism that tore the Eldar society apart (IE the birth of Slaanesh and the fall of the Eldar) is unimaginative if you want, but it's still less cliche than adding "chaos" to the beginning of an army's name.

I'm confused Melissia. Are you calling people unoriginal because of what they call their army or what they imagine is possible with an army?

DeffDred wrote:I'm confused Melissia. Are you calling people unoriginal because of what they call their army or what they imagine is possible with an army?

Hm.

Melissia wrote:It's like these are the lowest common denominator of Chaos players, who have no imagination so all they do is copy-paste everyone else's army and claim it as their own instead.

I think that covers it. Mind you, I find CSMs to be dull, too, with my preferences leaning towards Lost and the Damned and Chaos Daemons as far as Chaos goes. LatD's combined human/xeno armies, heavy focus on mutations and psychic powers, weird tech and daemon-infested machines, and so on make it all the more a tragedy that it is no longer a supported army-- it has potential for a dazzling variety of playstyles, units, and lore. Meanwhile Daemons are one of the most unique armies in 40k with a playstyle, visual style, and general lore that is truly all their own.

Fluff may establish that SoB are essentially universally incorruptible, but there seems to be no logical reason for this.

Yes, they're hyper-fanatical, disciplined, and faithful, but they're only mortal and, realistically, Sisters would have fallen in the 'past' just like any others.

Well, that's a sucky Xmas present. Welcome back to SOB threads, M. Glad to see you're still keeping it civil. Thought we lost you to the OT forever.

On topic, turning is rare and should be treated as such. As much as I disagree with her methods, I agree that chaos sob is a silly concept. That being said, it's a big universe, do your thing.

And whoever has the primarch quote, that was great.


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Ronin-Sage wrote:Fluff may establish that SoB are essentially universally incorruptible, but there seems to be no logical reason for this.

Yes, they're hyper-fanatical, disciplined, and faithful, but they're only mortal and, realistically, Sisters would have fallen in the 'past' just like any others.

Faith. Other folks have it but sisters are faithful. Being filled with the actual light of the Emperor does wonders for your soul (and complexion).

Ronin-Sage wrote:realistically, Sisters would have fallen in the 'past' just like any others.

When you see the light of your god shine before you, guiding your bolter shells in to enemy weak points, giving you strength to tear apart orks, giving you speed to outmaneuver Eldar, blessing your weapons with the power to smite daemons and psykers and the corrupt with preternatural ease... causing you to be able to heal wounds with a touch, or to survive a titan's cannon with nary a scratch on your armor, to revive from the most deadly of wounds...

... well, how much more convincing do you have to have? Sisters KNOW the Emperor is their god. Their eyes have seen the glory. The Daughters of the Emperor are given blessings by He upon His Golden Throne that not even His sons, the Adeptus Astartes, receive. They live their life with purpose, knowing that they do His work, and that they will not die unless His purpose for them is fulfilled. They strip themselves of sin, seek penance for the merest slights, seek purity of body and soul-- and obtain it. Their loyalty to the Emperor is second to none. They are paladins in the Emperor's name, and His light flows through them.

Furthermore, not only does making an entire army of chaos-worshipping Sisters dilute (and directly contradict) their lore. it also dilutes the power of the few times one did betray the Emperor. Miriael Sabathiel's story is a powerful one precisely because it is unprecedented.

Ronin-Sage wrote:Fluff may establish that SoB are essentially universally incorruptible, but there seems to be no logical reason for this.

Yes, they're hyper-fanatical, disciplined, and faithful, but they're only mortal and, realistically, Sisters would have fallen in the 'past' just like any others.

By that reasoning so should Grey Knights..... logic only goes so far in 40k in the end its down to personal preference...........

@ Pretre - if you mean the "More Primarchs have fallen than Sisters" - that would be me - I really like it

Melissia wrote:When you see the light of your god shine before you, guiding your bolter shells in to enemy weak points, giving you strength to tear apart orks, giving you speed to outmaneuver Eldar, blessing your weapons with the power to smite daemons and psykers and the corrupt with preternatural ease... causing you to be able to heal wounds with a touch, or to survive a titan's cannon with nary a scratch on your armor, to revive from the most deadly of wounds...

... well, how much more convincing do you have to have? Sisters KNOW the Emperor is their god. Their eyes have seen the glory. The Daughters of the Emperor are given blessings by He upon His Golden Throne that not even His sons, the Adeptus Astartes, receive. They live their life with purpose, knowing that they do His work, and that they will not die unless His purpose for them is fulfilled. They strip themselves of sin, seek penance for the merest slights, seek purity of body and soul-- and obtain it. Their loyalty to the Emperor is second to none. They are paladins in the Emperor's name, and His light flows through them.

Furthermore, not only does making an entire army of chaos-worshipping Sisters dilute (and directly contradict) their lore. it also dilutes the power of the few times one did betray the Emperor. Miriael Sabathiel's story is a powerful one precisely because it is unprecedented.

Wow. Well put.


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@Mr Morden: Well done.

Melissia wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:realistically, Sisters would have fallen in the 'past' just like any others.

When you see the light of your god shine before you, guiding your bolter shells in to enemy weak points, giving you strength to tear apart orks, giving you speed to outmaneuver Eldar, blessing your weapons with the power to smite daemons and psykers and the corrupt with preternatural ease... causing you to be able to heal wounds with a touch, or to survive a titan's cannon with nary a scratch on your armor, to revive from the most deadly of wounds...

... well, how much more convincing do you have to have? Sisters KNOW the Emperor is their god. Their eyes have seen the glory. The Daughters of the Emperor are given blessings by He upon His Golden Throne that not even His sons, the Adeptus Astartes, receive. They live their life with purpose, knowing that they do His work, and that they will not die unless His purpose for them is fulfilled. They strip themselves of sin, seek penance for the merest slights, seek purity of body and soul-- and obtain it. Their loyalty to the Emperor is second to none. They are paladins in the Emperor's name, and His light flows through them.

Furthermore, not only does making an entire army of chaos-worshipping Sisters dilute (and directly contradict) their lore. it also dilutes the power of the few times one did betray the Emperor. Miriael Sabathiel's story is a powerful one precisely because it is unprecedented.

...I'm not quite sure how to respond to this, but you seem to have an awfully inflated view of the SoB.

Ronin-Sage wrote:...I'm not quite sure how to respond to this, but you seem to have an awfully inflated view of the SoB.

This is a very amusing statement for me, but whatever.

All of what she has said is fact. Just look at the actual rules/fluff.
- light of your god shine before you (Light of the Emperor)
- guiding your bolter shells in to enemy weak points (Divine Guidance)
- giving you strength to tear apart orks (Hand of the Emperor)
- giving you speed to outmaneuver Eldar (The Passion)
- blessing your weapons with the power to smite daemons and psykers and the corrupt with preternatural ease (Divine Guidance, Holy Fusillade, Emperor's Deliverance)
- causing you to be able to heal wounds with a touch, or to survive a titan's cannon with nary a scratch on your armor, to revive from the most deadly of wounds... (Spirit of the Martyr)
Sisters KNOW the Emperor is their god. Their eyes have seen the glory. The Daughters of the Emperor are given blessings by He upon His Golden Throne that not even His sons, the Adeptus Astartes, receive. They live their life with purpose, knowing that they do His work, and that they will not die unless His purpose for them is fulfilled. They strip themselves of sin, seek penance for the merest slights, seek purity of body and soul-- and obtain it. Their loyalty to the Emperor is second to none. They are paladins in the Emperor's name, and His light flows through them. (Easily proven by the fact that they are the only ones who receive magic powers from the Emperor)

pretre wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:...I'm not quite sure how to respond to this, but you seem to have an awfully inflated view of the SoB.

This is a very amusing statement for me, but whatever.

All of what she has said is fact. Just look at the actual rules/fluff.
- light of your god shine before you (Light of the Emperor)
- guiding your bolter shells in to enemy weak points (Divine Guidance)
- giving you strength to tear apart orks (Hand of the Emperor)
- giving you speed to outmaneuver Eldar (The Passion)
- blessing your weapons with the power to smite daemons and psykers and the corrupt with preternatural ease (Divine Guidance, Holy Fusillade, Emperor's Deliverance)
- causing you to be able to heal wounds with a touch, or to survive a titan's cannon with nary a scratch on your armor, to revive from the most deadly of wounds... (Spirit of the Martyr)
Sisters KNOW the Emperor is their god. Their eyes have seen the glory. The Daughters of the Emperor are given blessings by He upon His Golden Throne that not even His sons, the Adeptus Astartes, receive. They live their life with purpose, knowing that they do His work, and that they will not die unless His purpose for them is fulfilled. They strip themselves of sin, seek penance for the merest slights, seek purity of body and soul-- and obtain it. Their loyalty to the Emperor is second to none. They are paladins in the Emperor's name, and His light flows through them. (Easily proven by the fact that they are the only ones who receive magic powers from the Emperor)

Why are you bringing tabletop rules into a discussion about fluff like it's actually relevant? And regardless, let's say these feats are common(they're not) and not effectively miracles...how does this bolster the argument that says Sisters are incorruptible? Putting it that way, you're *hurting* your argument about purity of faith, because it's suggesting that Sisters are faithful because they 'see', when true faith wouldn't rely on such things(or benefits).

Ronin-Sage wrote:Why are you bringing tabletop rules into a discussion about fluff like it's actually relevant? And regardless, let's say these feats are common(they're not) and not effectively miracles...how does this bolster the argument that says Sisters are incorruptible? Putting it that way, you're *hurting* your argument about purity of faith, because it's suggesting that Sisters are faithful because they 'see', when true faith wouldn't rely on such things(or benefits).

Because tabletop rules have fluff of their own. It is difficult to separate them. It is well established that Sisters actually manifest faith on a regular basis in the fluff. Just because they happen a lot doesn't mean they aren't granted by the Emperor. Faith isn't any less faith because you know you're right. In fact, throughout history there are plenty of folks who 'knew' they were right and were faithful.


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New WD Dex wrote:The perfervid, unquestioning nature of this faith is a potent weapon, manifesting as divine inspiration that drives the Adepta Sororitas to unprecedented feats of prowess. Sisters of Battle gripped with holy fervour banish fears from their minds, shrug off wounds and summon great strength to smite their foes. Those who witness such miracles are left in no doubt that the Emperor indeed walks with these pious warriors.

That's the fluff section, btw, not the crunch.

I'm not aware of any fluff that says Sisters benefit from miracles on a regular basis(I'm sure there's a codex edition or two that has some pretty badass feats described, but if we counted codex feats as 'regular basis'...). What they *do* benefit from is some of the best training and equipment the Imperium has to offer, but come on, miracles? Regularly?

I can see the Emperor throwing a miracle the Sisters' way every now and then, and when he feels like it, maybe making one of them into a living saint, but what you're saying is that Sisters are superheroes of barely contained awesomeness and win.

Scroll up, read the quote I posted. If you want, I'll go ahead and find the one from each codex for you so we can establish a trend.

And as I've pointed out, if everyone took some fluff from their favorite army's codex and touted it as being 'the norm', everyone's army would be action-fantasy anime -level strong.

Ronin-Sage wrote:And as I've pointed out, if everyone took some fluff from their favorite army's codex and touted it as being 'the norm', everyone's army would be action-fantasy anime -level strong.

Umm. Except the rules match the fluff in this case and have in every edition. Sisters can do miraculous things based on faith.

You're kind of waffling here. First you were saying that the rules don't count because they are not fluff and now you're saying the fluff doesn't count because it's not rules. Make up your mind.

My mind has made up, and the consistent message has been Sisters aren't doing ass-impossible feats on a regular basis. The alternative is that they're cheese incarnate.

You, however, seem to want to believe that Sisters in fluff can benefit from tangible miracles on a regular basis, but I think that diminishes them. It's that their fanaticism and faith makes them strong, not that they're doing kamehameha waves regularly.

But you're free to believe whatever.

Ronin-Sage wrote:My mind has made up, and the consistent message has been Sisters aren't doing ass-impossible feats on a regular basis. The alternative is that they're cheese incarnate.

Yes, the only acceptable reason that the sisters are faithful and able to use that faith to smite their enemies is that they are cheese incarnate. Good call.

You, however, seem to want to believe that Sisters in fluff can benefit from tangible miracles on a regular basis, but I think that diminishes them. It's that their fanaticism and faith makes them strong, not that they're doing kamehameha waves regularly.

Their fanaticism and faith not only makes them strong but has physical manifestation. Is it so hard to believe that in a universe where aliens, magic mind bullets, daemons and spaceships exist that people might be able to physically manifest strong faith? Because it isn't for me.

But you're free to believe whatever.

The sun rises tomorrow. Tell your friends.

pretre wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:My mind has made up, and the consistent message has been Sisters aren't doing ass-impossible feats on a regular basis. The alternative is that they're cheese incarnate.

Yes, the only acceptable reason that the sisters are faithful and able to use that faith to smite their enemies is that they are cheese incarnate. Good call.

You, however, seem to want to believe that Sisters in fluff can benefit from tangible miracles on a regular basis, but I think that diminishes them. It's that their fanaticism and faith makes them strong, not that they're doing kamehameha waves regularly.

Their fanaticism and faith not only makes them strong but has physical manifestation. Is it so hard to believe that in a universe where aliens, magic mind bullets, daemons and spaceships exist that people might be able to physically manifest strong faith? Because it isn't for me.

Why are you assuming because I don't believe Sisters have a miracle script running in the background that they don't benefit from miracles at all? My view is that such things are possible, but very rare.

pretre wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:But you're free to believe whatever.

The sun rises tomorrow. Tell your friends.

No value in this, so I'm going to ignore it. Wait.

Ronin-Sage wrote:Why are you bringing tabletop rules into a discussion about fluff like it's actually relevant? And regardless, let's say these feats are common(they're not) and not effectively miracles...how does this bolster the argument that says Sisters are incorruptible? Putting it that way, you're *hurting* your argument about purity of faith, because it's suggesting that Sisters are faithful because they 'see', when true faith wouldn't rely on such things(or benefits).

Not just tabletop rules, but also rules in Dark Heresy (the stronger the act of faith is, the rarer it is, but veteran Sisters are preternaturally lucky in combat as a matter of course, represented by a talent which lets them achieve righteous fury [the game's version of critical hits, for those familiar with DnD] twice as often as any other class), and in lore (Canoness Praxedes, for example, single-handedly slew a hive tyrant in close combat, but it is specifically stated in C:WH that they train in a martial art that involves heavy amounts of prayer and allows them to perform feats which appear miraculous to the unschooled).

As for "true faith", you're misunderstanding. They have faith without doubt-- isn't that what true faith is?

Their eyes have seen the glory and removed all doubt.

Ronin-Sage wrote:Why are you assuming because I don't believe Sisters have a miracle script running in the background that they don't benefit from miracles at all? My view is that such things are possible, but very rare.

You've twisted things a bit off track. Sisters have true faith that protects them from the corruption of chaos. Their true faith is manifested by actual miracles. Hence the reason that sisters very rarely turn to chaos, like twice in history. Less than the number of primarchs.

For reference, the quote I refer to in C:WH is thus:

For millennia the Sisters have practiced their unique method of war combining combat doctrine and prayer which enables them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield that appear miraculous to the unschooled.

It's canon that Sisters of Battle accomplish miracles (Acts of Faith) on the battlefield on a regular basis.

Personally, I'm of the school that the Sisters' abilities are not "true miracles" (as this would require the existence of true divine magic, which is a concept I strongly object for 40k), but the result of their incredibly strong will, allowing them to not just go one but two extra miles with frightening ease. Their belief in the Emperor is so strong that it simply overrides conventional human limits, making them disregard minor wounds as if they weren't there, acting with utter regard to their own safety and survival if need be, or concentrate on a single task with such determination and mental focus that it enables them to become impromptu snipers. Stuff that can appear as miracles, but in reality isn't. You get my drift.

It is this incredible willpower which also makes them nearly immune to the temptations of Chaos, for when you look at how Chaos works, you will see that the Sisters simply don't have a lot of mental weaknesses where temptation could gain a foothold. Unlike the Imperial Guard or the Space Marines, the Sisters regularly undergo a stern regimen of humiliation and mortification designed to humble and thus fortify their spirits. Further, unlike the Imperial Guard or the Space Marines, the Sisters - at least the SoB - are all orphans "recruited" as babies; they never even knew a normal life and its pleasantries, and thus can never be tempted with what they might miss out on. It's a mixture of indoctrination, a very limited worldview, religious zeal and a missing childhood. In its grimdark, almost dehumanizing conditioning it is unrivalled by anything else in existence throughout the Imperium.

I've once read a short story from Ben Counter which had a Seraphim and a Marine Sergeant be subjected to corruption by a Daemon Prince, and I think the way it was handled there was pretty good:

Daemonblood wrote:"What curiously small creatures you are to present such a thorn in my side." The words roared and rumbled through the air, thick with dark amusement. "What little bundles of ignorant flesh. I am Parmenides, called the Vile, chosen Prince of Nurgle. I am the virus which the Plague God sends to infect your mortal worlds. I am the festering in your wounded empire. Do creatures as insignificant as yourselves have names, too, I wonder?"
"Sergeant Castus of the Ultramarines, Second Company", the Marine replied in a defiant voice, as if he were trying to impress the daemon prince.
The horrific gaze turned to Aescarion, questioning.
"I would not give you my name, though it cost my soul", the Battle Sister snarled, and she gripped her axe tighter.
"Such a shame", Parmenides replied. "But the girl I can understand. Her mind is most infertile. What has she ever questioned? They teach her and she believes."

Of course there are areas where they would still be vulnerable. There seems to be a certain pride, an almost arrogant streak amongst them which usually manifests itself when their authority or loyalty is put into question. And then we have all the flagellantism, with the subjects being taught that pain is a good thing, so someone starting to actually like it is not really out of the question. However, the Sisterhood is an extremely tight-knit group with a strong sense of trust and community, so it stands to reason that its members would effectively police themselves and gain even more strength of their ability to rely upon one another. This is not much different than with the Space Marines, however, unlike the Astartes, the Sisters are not nearly as independent but feel obliged to a greater cause and a chain of command that reaches firmly unto Terra itself. You will remember that during the Heresy, a lot of Marines only followed Horus because their own commanders did, not because they themselves were corrupted - something like this would be unthinkable with the Sisters, as even their overall leader would still feel indebted to something greater than herself, having no aspirations to replace it. Such are the chains of faith - they are as blinding as they are empowering.

Of course, there is always room for exceptions (I still like the idea of Miriael, even if it goes against their original "uncorruptible" trait), but it should be clear why mass corruptions can be regarded as somewhat inappropriate if you go by the majority of their studio material.

Lynata wrote:Personally, I'm of the school that the Sisters' abilities are not "true miracles" (as this would require the existence of true divine magic, which is a concept I strongly object for 40k), but the result of their incredibly strong will, allowing them to not just go one but two extra miles with frightening ease. Their belief in the Emperor is so strong that it simply overrides conventional human limits, making them disregard minor wounds as if they weren't there, acting with utter regard to their own safety and survival if need be, or concentrate on a single task with such determination and mental focus that it enables them to become impromptu snipers. Stuff that can appear as miracles, but in reality isn't. You get my drift.

I think it boils down to the same thing though. Whether their faith in the Emperor makes the miracle or the Emperor makes the miracle as a reward for their faith, they are still miracles generated from their faith. Either way, either Will or Divine Magic keeps them protected from Chaos. Take that Chaos!


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@Lynata: Also, that story is pretty sweet. The main character almost gets in trouble quite a bit for her obsession with that Sergeant, although I suppose it pays off.

The statement that they can do Acts of Faith because their kung fu is stronger than yours (which is essentially what C:WH says) can go either way, as well, whichever interpretation you prefer.

They are distinctly NOT psychic powers, however, and have been stated as not psychic powers numerous times in numerous sources. They cannot be detected by psykers, they cannot be countered by anti-psychic traits, or be effected by psychic powers which effect psykers or other psychic powers; in fact, they seem to be more of the anti-psyker persuasion, given Shield of Faith and the effects of Pure Faith in Dark Heresy.

Mr Morden wrote:As I mentioned before - you could def have a Chaos army that mock the duaghters of the Emperor by using looted armour etc. They would not be turned Sisters but Chaos Warlords would likely enjoy this sort of thing....

"I told you, I'm just wearing it because it makes Sister Claudia mad. Any enjoyment I may get from wearing women's armour is purely secondary."

Melissia wrote:, it's misogynistic,

Whoa whoa, throwing the sexism card? You're off the deep end now. What's inherently misogynistic about making Chaos Sisters?

I won't touch the rest of this argument because it's just downright contentious for the sake of being contentious, but you're going to have to explain this one. Well, more like there is no possible valid explanation for it, so I'm going to amuse myself making you squirm trying to justify it.


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DeffDred wrote:

If you're so unimaginative that the only concept you can think of for a new army is to add "chaos" as a descriptor to a previously existing army then you probably should let someone else come up with your concept.

Because DARK Eldar is way more imaginative.

Not to mention that Dark Eldar only came about in 40K because people kept showing up to Games Day and other GW events with Chaos Eldar armies (using the Eldar rules, obviously). There were no Dark Eldar, at all, anywhere in the fluff, until 3rd Edition. GW just figured they could cash in if they released an army for them.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:What's inherently misogynistic about making Chaos Sisters?

It's like trying to make Chaos Grey Knights.


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Ronin-Sage wrote:Fluff may establish that SoB are essentially universally incorruptible, but there seems to be no logical reason for this.

Then why are Grey Knights incorruptible to?
It may have something to do with faith but I am not sure...


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Ronin-Sage wrote:
Why are you bringing tabletop rules into a discussion about fluff like it's actually relevant? And regardless, let's say these feats are common(they're not) and not effectively miracles...how does this bolster the argument that says Sisters are incorruptible? Putting it that way, you're *hurting* your argument about purity of faith, because it's suggesting that Sisters are faithful because they 'see', when true faith wouldn't rely on such things(or benefits).

1. They use that in the fluff to, read their codex old and new one.
2. They receive protection from the Emperor himself via their faith. Unless Chaos can corrupt him the Sisters are incorruptible.


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Ronin-Sage wrote:I don't believe Sisters have a miracle script running in the background that they don't benefit from miracles at all? My view is that such things are possible, but very rare.

Then why are you arguing here if you believe that?
And they do benefit from the blessing of the Emperor, just ask every for that was defeated by them.
Oh, and Living Saint's to.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:What's inherently misogynistic about making Chaos Sisters?

Because the overwhelming majority of people who want Chaos Sisters only want it because they want to see women fall to worship Slaanesh, IE, to turn women in to sex toys and/or sex-crazed maniacs. Even Games Workshop fell for this in the interest of titillating their readers, as Miriael Sabathiel fell to Slaanesh (Khorne would have made much more sense by far).

IMO the Sisters are not immune to corruption but then I think no mortal is - and that inlcudes Grey Knights as it can corrupt Primarchs, the Slann - anything mortal.

However I feel that they are - with the Grey Knights, one of the most resistant to its blandeshments - being granted special protection from the Emperor himself.

So when does the Chaos Necrons thread start cos the new fluff grants them zero protection especially if Tzeentch offers a Necron Lord the cnahce to regain flesh, cure the Flayer virus etc - they are just as vulnerable now as other race sicne they retianed their personalities and souls (?). Be intersting to see what an obliterator virus would do to a Necron

Mr Morden wrote:IMO the Sisters are not immune to corruption but then I think no mortal is - and that inlcudes Grey Knights as it can corrupt Primarchs, the Slann - anything mortal.

And I think that some things in fluff should never get changed. By your logic even Emperor can be corrupted, so why Chaos Gods didn't try that?

Depending on how you read the Fluff I am not sure the Emperor counts as mortal - and I assume Chaos tried/try.

re changing fluff - do you mean Necrons - I agree for the most part - the new fluff is somehow weaker and less iconic.

Not just them, Sisters and Grey Knight should stay incorruptible. Same as Chaos Legion should stay Chaos not get back to the loyalist side.

I prefer that the potential is there but so far:

1 Sister has fallen
no Grey Knights have yet fallen but that they could

and that is something both organisations they are fully aware of guard and must cosntantly against.

If you mean "it's possible, but they don't through force of will and faith", then sure. If you mean "it's possible, so we shoudl have an entire army of corrupted sisters/grey knights to play around with", then no.

Melissia wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:What's inherently misogynistic about making Chaos Sisters?

Because the overwhelming majority of people who want Chaos Sisters only want it because they want to see women fall to worship Slaanesh, IE, to turn women in to sex toys and/or sex-crazed maniacs. Even Games Workshop fell for this in the interest of titillating their readers, as Miriael Sabathiel fell to Slaanesh (Khorne would have made much more sense by far).

And really, how would Khorne make more sense? People are often lured to Chaos by promises of something they can't have. A Sister of Battle already has self righteous rage aplenty. Khorne isn't going to necessarily provide some allure. After all, Khorne is stupid. And Sisters are conditioned to hate sorcerers and heretics, so Tzeentch isn't going to automatically appeal. That only leaves Slaanesh and Nurgle. Sisters practice self denial of earthly pleasures, but there's easily the room for doubt in that doctrine. After all, Slaanesh represents more than just carnal lust, but the fulfillment of all types of pleasure. And pleasure, being the one thing that a Sister is denied almost in totality, is something that can be offered. If anything, the allure of Slaanesh makes the most sense.

But really, in the end, if we were worried about the idea of Sisters as sex objects, they already are. Nuns with guns with big tits, in impossibly form fitting armor, most of their depictions are of them as cover models (while the males of the universe are typically ugly and deformed). Reminds me of all the models that the Chinese military pays to wear military uniforms and look attractive as propaganda. This is an army/faction that has never been anything other than OMGhotladymarines. If a player was truly worried about sexist depictions of women, they wouldn't play 40K in the first place. Even in making them ladymarines, GW made sure they were inferior to their male counterparts in every possible way. But they are no more designed to appeal to the fantasies of men than the male characters are. For the average 40K player, they aren't even fit enough in real life to be the lowliest of Imperial Guardsmen. The Space Marine is an idealized masculine form. An empowered, self confident individual. Like the feminists who attacked Hugh Hefner in the 70s and 80s, the game no more makes sex objects out of the sisters than the sisters are for being human beings in the first place.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:People are often lured to Chaos by promises of something they can't have.

And there's the problem: how can you lure someone who knows nothing else except Emperor and dying for him? They are mostly orphans and war victims who lost all, they know nothing else except the Emperor and service to him.
And that 1 Sister that fall to Chaos, she was a prisoner for some time. After some time everyone would break down to them, or die.

Brother Coa wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:People are often lured to Chaos by promises of something they can't have.

And there's the problem: how can you lure someone who knows nothing else except Emperor and dying for him?

So, you also just essentially described the Space Marines, and 11 out of the 20 original legions are either expunged or turned traitor.

Nevermind that it's absolutely foolish to believe that the Sisters would know nothing else. We know that there are Sisters Repentia, which means they've strayed from the path of true righteousness. That pretty much confirms that the Sisters do know other things, and that their adherence to their doctrine is voluntary and worked at, but above all, confirms that from time to time, Sisters are unable or possibly unwilling to conform to that ideal. Doubt is the seed of heresy. If there are Repentia, then there exists the possibility for temptation.

Regardless, it seems that this thread, like most about canonicity, is full of citations of convenience.

Repentia have experienced things like greed, lust, pride etc... that is why they are to Repent, because those felling are forbidden. And that thing may happened in the heat of battle and totally by surprise ( like imperial Plasma exploding )
Space Marines are different, they are maybe superhuman but still have Human emotions and Human weakness ( most turn to Chaos because of power, greed or simply lust for slaughter ) - Sisters don't have any of that traits, they simply want to serve the Emperor and don't want nothing else.
Every Sister I have read about didn't show same traits that plague the Astartes. Every Sister only had one thing on her mind: to serve the Emperor as best as she can, even in times of rest they are constantly praying and preparing for battle.
They have no need to be better then anyone else, to loot, to conquer some territory for themselves, to kill because of pleasure, to posses something expensive and powerful, to have relationship and to love... they only know about Emperor and Humanity and Holy War for Mankind salvation.
So, no matte what Chaos Gods say to them they will not listen them. They will oppose them and they will die as martyrs or destroy them.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:And really, how would Khorne make more sense?

Because Khorne is the chaos god that governs martial prowess, combat, and the one that hates psykers the most. His philosophy, as it were, has more in common with that of the Sisters (Which still isn't much) than the other chaos gods.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:So, you also just essentially described the Space Marines

Space Marines desire glory in battle, and the pride of their chapter, their independence, and other things depending on the chapter. They do not live the penitent lifestyle Sisters live in. They also are disconnected with humanity, having given up their humanity to be Space Marines in the first place, while Sisters are most assuredly human. The original twenty legions were not loyal to the Emperor, they were loyal to their primarchs, and the primarchs themselves were frequently immature weak-minded fools (I mean, just LOOK at the reasons for their betrayals-- "omg daddy isn't paying enough attention to me / isn't giving me everything I wanted!" sums up the majority of their reasons, they were unable to man up and admit their flaws or step down from their self-made pedestals) bathing in their own arrogance.

Something Sisters are not-- being "merely human" is also a strength, due to it being a source of humility.

For reference, the quote I refer to in C:WH is thus:


For millennia the Sisters have practiced their unique method of war combining combat doctrine and prayer which enables them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield that appear miraculous to the unschooled.


It's canon that Sisters of Battle accomplish miracles (Acts of Faith) on the battlefield on a regular basis.

An act of faith is not a miracle. You are mis-understanding the statement you quoted. "...that APPEAR miraculous to the UNSCHOOLED."

This is the fluffs way of cooling itself down. The sisters SEEM to be doing miracles and other impossiblities. In reality they are no more miraculous than marines.

In other words, the people of the imperium veiw the acts of the sisters as epic and holy. Just like when they see a spacemarine in battle.

DeffDred wrote:In reality they are no more miraculous than Marines.

So Marines shoot beams of bright light from their bolters that can cut trough tank and have golden shields around themselves who protect them from all kind of attacks.
They can also resurrect from the dead and have wings and flaming swords, and releasing pigeons from their hands...

Marines and Sisters are very different. Marines use brute force and tactics.
Sisters use Act's of Faith and Faith alone to prevail.

DeffDred wrote:This is the fluffs way of cooling itself down. The sisters SEEM to be doing miracles and other impossiblities. In reality they are no more miraculous than marines.

Sisters can and do accomplish feats upon the battlefield that Marines cannot.

Healing someone by TOUCHING them for example.

What annoys me about Chaos Sisters is that it's always Slaaneshi. I mean, I like boobs as much as the next guy, but I don't feel the need to have every occurrence of boobs in my toy soldier collection to be linked with Teh Awesome God of Kinky Sex and Corsets.
To me (as previous posters have said) Khorne makes more sense for most Sisters, as they are warriors. Nurgle seems as likely as Slaanesh. I've seen precisely zero nurgle or khorne sisters armies, but 3 or 4 Slaneeshi sisters armies. Go figure. (This is one reason why I was pleased that the female character in the WoC book was Khornate. I mean, probably would have been better to have more than one female, but at least she wasn't Slaaneshi.)

Apart from that, I have no issue with the concept of Chaos Sisters, and wouldn't have a problem playing against them either (even if they were slaaneshi)

Da Boss wrote:Nurgle seems as likely as Slaanesh.

Nurgle is impossible, for the reasons I stated in my first post. "Only Nurgle cares" cannot find purchase with someone who knows, as surely as I know the sun is shining, that the Emperor cares.

Brother Coa wrote:Repentia have experienced things like greed, lust, pride etc... that is why they are to Repent, because those felling are forbidden.

So, no matte what Chaos Gods say to them they will not listen them. They will oppose them and they will die as martyrs or destroy them.

You contradict yourself in this post. If the Repentia are susceptible to greed, lust, and pride, then the Chaos Gods do have something to offer them.

Remember, it isn't like Space Marines go to Chaos all the time. The Horus Heresy was largely a factor of the insidiousness of an unknown force. The Marines didn't know to be wary of the temptations of Chaos, which made it easier for the Ruinous Powers. Plus, the Space Marines of the Great Crusade were much different than the Space Marines of the "modern" era. It was the Codex Astartes that set down the rules and doctrines for how Space Marines are organized and trained today. In Ten Thousand years, Space Marines have turned to Chaos a handful of time.

But again, we're seeing a lot of selective source selection. Black Library sources used when they are convenient, mocked or ignored when they are not, the same for the rulebooks, etc. It's all contradictory, but you have to take the good with the bad. There have been multiple instances of Sisters being corrupted or led astray, dating back to the original Daughters of the Emperor. But I still maintain that Khorne is no more likely of a candidate for corrupting the Sisters. Just being warriors doesn't cut it. Otherwise all Space Marines would follow Khorne too, but they don't. The lure of the Chaos Gods often comes from offerings of things that their pawns do not have, or feel denied. It's why Magnus was seduced by Tzeentch. It isn't as cut and dried all the time like Angron and Khorne. Slaanesh offers worldly pleasures that Sisters are denied. That alone explains the fact that all of the examples we have of Sisters turning have been to Slaanesh. They aren't consumed enough by hatred and aggression for Khorne. They're too opposed to sorcery to be seduced very often by Tzeentch. And Nurgle has little to offer the Sisters. So it's going to be Slaanesh, or it's going to be Chaos Undivided if not a specific power. But Slaanesh easily makes the most sense, far and away. Definitely far more sense than Khorne. I can understand it seems kind of cliche for the Sisters to go to Slaanesh, but that's because it's the Chaos God that best fits their fluff. Heck, look at their favored method of attack, fire. Fire is a horrible way to die, and suffering empowers Slaanesh. Khorne only seeks to kill. The Sisters also prey on the weak quite often. They care nothing for seeking out their equals, or challenges in combat. They seek heretics. A Sister who takes too much enjoyment in their work hunting down heretics is serving Slaanesh, not Khorne.

I think a lot of you don't really know your Chaos Gods as well as you think you do.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:You contradict yourself in this post. If the Repentia are susceptible to greed, lust, and pride, then the Chaos Gods do have something to offer them.

You don't understand what it means to be a repentia.

Imagine someone committing suicide. They've already jumped off the bridge in to icy water, naked. While tehy're in the air, they're also overdosing on a highly lethal drug, and there's a crack shot sniper they paid to shoot them in the head before they hit the water, and the water is full of hungry hungry sharks (And they're bleeding, making them a target). Also, the water is poisonous to them, and they're about to have a stroke and their lungs are failing. The person is already dead before they hit the water.

Joining the repentia is sort of like that. "I embrace death with open arms, like an old friend." To join the Repentia is no less than to seek redemption in death. In joining the repentia, you're already dead, your body just hasn't caught up with the idea yet.

Any corruption or weakness within a Repentia's body, heart, and soul is punished all the harder because of this. They must die a martyr's death. The Repentia Mistress make sure of that, keeping their charges in a practically psychotic fervor and sending them gladly to death. In truth, though those who join the Repentia do so because of their weaknesses and flaws, the Repentia are the LEAST likely to turn to Chaos worship-- because they die very, very quickly and seek this glorious martyrdom like a drowning person seeks the surface of the water to gasp for air.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:There have been multiple instances of Sisters being corrupted or led astray, dating back to the original Daughters of the Emperor.

No there hasn't.

There's a few examples of Sisters being mind controlled, yes. But that is not the same as being turned to the worship of Chaos.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:But I still maintain that Khorne is no more likely of a candidate for corrupting the Sisters.

That is because you are wrong.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:It's why Magnus was seduced by Tzeentch.

Magnus turned to Tzeentch because he was a spoiled brat who was too curious for his own good and screwed everything up, and then made a deal to save his own hide.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:They aren't consumed enough by hatred and aggression for Khorne.

Again, you really, REALLY don't understand Sisters. Or have paid any attention, at all, to SItsers fluff, if you think Sisters aren't "consumed by hatred and aggression".

The very fact that "holy hatred" is a long-standing special rule that certain Sisters has should queue you in to just how wrong you are. Their hatred is so strong, so pronounced, that GW made a special rule for it above and beyond even what they give to Khorne's own champions. In Dark Heresy, the most in depth and strongest of the three types of Acts of Faith is "Empeor's Wrath. And the most basic talent that all other powers in this tree are based on is Wrath of the Righteous. Further down you see Righteous Frenzy, which puts Sisters in a berserker like rage. Sisters are well known for their hatred of psykers as well. Sisters know of wrath and hatred and anger, directed at the enemies of the emperor, just as they also show mercy towards His devoted servants.

So really, Sisters "aren't consumed enough by hatred"? FETH THAT! The hatred that Sisters bear towards the enemies of the Emperor is freaking LEGENDARY. It has been known to be strong enough to cloud their judgement even, so that they attack when they should not (such as in the fifth Ciaphas Cain book).





Really, this entire argument seems more like you're just arguing because you are choosing to ignore Sisters lore to try to justify your sexual fantasies. You claim that I am ignoring key aspects of lore, but you either are ignoring far more than I, or you only know them tangentially.

You're confused again.

I'm not talking about what a Repentia is, or isn't, or their individual susceptibility to Chaos. That's mostly irrelevant. The very fact that Sisters ever feel the need to become a Repentia shows an inherent weakness in Sisters that Chaos can exploit. Like you said, they're only human. If they are becoming Repentia, it is (usually) because they've given into some kind of weakness or desire.

That desire is what Chaos would latch onto. Like the fact that it is rare for Space Marines to turn, it is equally plausible that it is quite rare for Sisters to turn. But we know it is possible. This is just the proof against the sillier claims in this thread be people who don't understand Chaos or human psychology.


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Back to your usual disrespectful, trolling ways again huh? Can't beat my logic, so you resort to ad hominem attacks. I've shown proof, given examples, shown how the different Gods interact with their devotees, and your answer is "You're wrong".

It's like arguing with an eight year old, lol. And just like with an eight year old, I'm not going to bother continuing.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I'm not talking about what a Repentia is, or isn't

I am, because you are talking without knowing what knowing what the hell you are talking about.

It's like talking about the details of different kinds of redox reactions with a business major. And that's the simple stuff...

Or possibly more accurately, like talking about the creation of cryptands and crown ethers to someone who has only ever taken chemistry for non-majors.

Melissia wrote:Even Games Workshop fell for this in the interest of titillating their readers, as Miriael Sabathiel fell to Slaanesh (Khorne would have made much more sense by far).

Here I think you're overshooting the mark. The Chaos Gods prey on the aspirations and longings of the mortal folk, but when it comes to combat and hunting down psykers, the Sisters are already there, perfectly in harmony with their existence and proud of the tasks they already pursue. In short, Khorne has nothing he could offer them. With Slaanesh, the story is much different.

I realize that your motivations are to defend this fictional faction from exploitation as a sexualized crowd pleaser (and really, I kind of relate - public perception of the Sisters often is terribly twisted), yet there's a line where it - imho - stops making sense, which is drawn where the members of this faction would stop being human. They still have bodies, and with them the ability to feel pain as well as pleasure, even simultaneously.* All it takes is the catalyst that is normally missing from a Sister's experience. At least the pleasure bit, they certainly have enough pain in their daily schedule already.
We probably don't want to go into details here, but given how much time the Emperor's Children had to work on her, I really don't see the problem. If Miriael would have been taken prisoner by, say, the World Eaters, I kind of doubt they would have even tried. Aside from kind of lacking the patience, possibly even the foresight that it might be worth bothering, what could they have done to achieve the same result and corrupt a veteran member of the Sisters Militant? Nah, Sisters are nigh-impossible to corrupt, but I think it is perfectly reasonable that the biggest threat to their purity comes from Slaanesh's corner. Perhaps that is just a question of interpretations, too, though.

(*: And that's just for the sexual aspect. Let's not forget that Slaanesh also embodies perfection, which includes things such as martial techniques, calligraphy or craftsmanship - all things a lot of Sororitas are busying themselves with every single day.)

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Even in making them ladymarines, GW made sure they were inferior to their male counterparts in every possible way.

That's how a lot of people see them, but I cannot fully agree. GW went as far as possible to "balance" the Sisters' coolness with that of the Marines - as far as they could go without involving genetical enhancements. They get the same gear as the Astartes, they (successfully!) hunt down rogue Marine Chapters, they are far less corruptible, and their extreme zeal allows them to rise above normal human limits. I'd actually go as far as stating that the Sisters are more impressive than the Astartes, because they do the Marines' jobs without enjoying their male counterparts' enhanced strength, toughness and longevity.

->

GW wrote:As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines. What the Sisters lack in genetic enhancement they make up for in faith and devotion. No one is more devoted to the cause and cult of the Emperor than they.

As I said, it's really just that a lot of people, particularly segments of the Marine fanbase, tend to play them down all the time. I suppose it comes to no surprise that the overlap created a bit of a rivalry - which even exists in the fluff, though ironically the Marines still tend to have more respect for the Sisters of Battle than their players do.

Melissia wrote:Sisters can and do accomplish feats upon the battlefield that Marines cannot.
Healing someone by TOUCHING them for example.

Indeed ... unfortunately FFG's RPG has invented a number of really gamey abilities there. A lot of people on their forums have remarked that the writers kind of went "over the top" there, and that they preferred the ambiguity GW intended instead of these shiny "in your face"-miracles - ranging from turning the character into a walking glowlamp to magically re-growing a missing leg, up to the Sister shooting a holy laser out of her eyes and mouth. SHOOP DA WHOOP!

Meh. There's a reason I did not pick any of these new flashy "divine magic" spells for my own Dark Heresy character. I've grown fond of the "classic" interpretation.

The ones I've used haven't exactly been "flashy" either. Mind you, it's not like the canon ones are that much less flashy. Light of the Emperor is by definition "flashy", hehehe... So was Spirit of the Martyr IIRC. The only one that I see as truly over the top (rather than simply teetering on the edge, and let's face it, most 40k lore tends towards that anyway) is "soul storm".

Acts of Faith shouldn't directly attack enemies, that's the realm of psychic powers-- instead they should enhance something about the Sisters and the faithful surrounding them. But that's something for another topic.

Melissia wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I'm not talking about what a Repentia is, or isn't

I am, because you are talking without knowing what knowing what the hell you are talking about.

It's like talking about the details of different kinds of redox reactions with a business major. And that's the simple stuff...

Or possibly more accurately, like talking about the creation of cryptands and crown ethers to someone who has only ever taken chemistry for non-majors.

This is great. I need some popcorn.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I'm not talking about what a Repentia is, or isn't, or their individual susceptibility to Chaos. That's mostly irrelevant. The very fact that Sisters ever feel the need to become a Repentia shows an inherent weakness in Sisters that Chaos can exploit. Like you said, they're only human. If they are becoming Repentia, it is (usually) because they've given into some kind of weakness or desire.

Chaos offering Sister it's powers is like multimilionare offering a newest Ferrari to the Ethiopian child.
You can't offer something to someone, while that someone is not interested in that.
And SIsters joins Repentia because they felt or did something wrong during her time in Sisterhood and must Repent for that.
As Melissia said - only way of Repentia is death, and they die pretty quickly. So Chaos don't have anything to exploit there.

If you still don't understand I will help you more: To Chaos, Sisters are the same as Tyranid and Necrons.
What Chaos has to offer to those two races when they have no interest in such power?
Tyranids want's to eat everything, while Necrons want's to rule everything. Same as Sisters want's only to serve the Emperor.


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Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I think a lot of you don't really know your Chaos Gods as well as you think you do.

Chaos Gods are nothing more the four spoiled, soul hungry Daemons. Who look to consume your soul in any way possible.
And who would be helpless if not for the Heretics to aid them. I am just waiting for Draigo to find them and kill them

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Repentia have experienced things like greed, lust, pride etc... that is why they are to Repent, because those felling are forbidden.

So, no matte what Chaos Gods say to them they will not listen them. They will oppose them and they will die as martyrs or destroy them.

You contradict yourself in this post. If the Repentia are susceptible to greed, lust, and pride, then the Chaos Gods do have something to offer them.

Remember, it isn't like Space Marines go to Chaos all the time. The Horus Heresy was largely a factor of the insidiousness of an unknown force. The Marines didn't know to be wary of the temptations of Chaos, which made it easier for the Ruinous Powers. Plus, the Space Marines of the Great Crusade were much different than the Space Marines of the "modern" era. It was the Codex Astartes that set down the rules and doctrines for how Space Marines are organized and trained today. In Ten Thousand years, Space Marines have turned to Chaos a handful of time.

But again, we're seeing a lot of selective source selection. Black Library sources used when they are convenient, mocked or ignored when they are not, the same for the rulebooks, etc. It's all contradictory, but you have to take the good with the bad. There have been multiple instances of Sisters being corrupted or led astray, dating back to the original Daughters of the Emperor. But I still maintain that Khorne is no more likely of a candidate for corrupting the Sisters. Just being warriors doesn't cut it. Otherwise all Space Marines would follow Khorne too, but they don't. The lure of the Chaos Gods often comes from offerings of things that their pawns do not have, or feel denied. It's why Magnus was seduced by Tzeentch. It isn't as cut and dried all the time like Angron and Khorne. Slaanesh offers worldly pleasures that Sisters are denied. That alone explains the fact that all of the examples we have of Sisters turning have been to Slaanesh. They aren't consumed enough by hatred and aggression for Khorne. They're too opposed to sorcery to be seduced very often by Tzeentch. And Nurgle has little to offer the Sisters. So it's going to be Slaanesh, or it's going to be Chaos Undivided if not a specific power. But Slaanesh easily makes the most sense, far and away. Definitely far more sense than Khorne. I can understand it seems kind of cliche for the Sisters to go to Slaanesh, but that's because it's the Chaos God that best fits their fluff. Heck, look at their favored method of attack, fire. Fire is a horrible way to die, and suffering empowers Slaanesh. Khorne only seeks to kill. The Sisters also prey on the weak quite often. They care nothing for seeking out their equals, or challenges in combat. They seek heretics. A Sister who takes too much enjoyment in their work hunting down heretics is serving Slaanesh, not Khorne. I think a lot of you don't really know your Chaos Gods as well as you think you do.

Some interesting points - however not sure that I agree with a lot of it:

All mortals are subject to impulses and needs - and why I think all can therefore be tempted by Chaos with the amount of resistance vartying wildly, Grey Knights/ Sisters being at the top end of this ability to disdain such offers.

Space Marines: Actually they seem to turn to Chaos pretty often - its a standard in fluff / BL works - almost as often as Inquisitors do whole Chapters have fallen rather than the one known individual of the Sisterhood. Whilst ignorance was part of the problem in the days of the Horus Heresy - they were also full of those oh so human wants and needs - which still often surface in the Marines of the later periods.

Its a good point about the Sisters being led astray - they are often a bit literal and are liable take peoples word on things - missing out on the intracies of politicing and ending up in the wrong side. Vandire did exactly this - however obviously once they see through these things they tend to get pretty wrathful. This however is very different to submitting willingly to blandishments of the Chaos Powers - this has only happneed once and even then willingly is a debatable point.

There are various ways in which they do risk corruption - from their seeking to perfect therselves in the service of the Emperor to pride and "needing" pain to cleanse themsleves of sins - real or perceived. Different orders must also resist temptation in other areas for isntance the Order Pronatus dealing with arcane knowledge and artefacts - in much the same ways as members of the Holy Inquisiton, the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Relicators Space Marines are tempted. The powers of Chaos are not always direct and can work through others.

Sisters preying on the weak - not sure what you mean by this - they will kill those they see as corrupted but how does is different from any religious fanatic in any era? If they did it because they enjoyed it - then there is an issue................

@ Brother Coa
The new Fluff means that Chaos does now have things to offer the Necrons - not my preference but its there.
Tryanids are less liekly but previous fluff has had corruption possible and of course it used to be that Genestealer Cults coudl and did turn to Chaos to achieve their aims.

Calm down and take it down a notch or two please people.

Thanks.

Chaos Sisters? The Grotesque-lover in me really wants to see an army of Nympho-Bisexual-BDSM-Space Nuns...
Btw... I think that Sisters would be much more interesting if we admit that they can fall to chaos... Just saying: they're too faithful let them appear as protected by plot armour... If we admit that even with all their faith they can (rarely of course) fall, the whole faith thing becomes more interesting because we admit that the life of sisters is a constant battle against temptation... This makes them stand even MORE heroic... not less... I don't know if I'm sufficiently clear... I mean... Just sayng: they're faithful, they can't fall to chaos makes their faith look "cheap"...
About a whole Chaos Sister army... erhhhm... well, fluff-wise it looks very unlikely.... and if you pass a certain limit you risk the ridicoulous (see the top ofthe post)... May I suggest something slightly diffferent?
Undead Sisters! A chaos sorcerer slughtered a convent of sisters and then, using the malign forces of the warp, reanimated the fallen sisters as undead slaves at his service... Now they bring havoc upon the imperium, bringing despair and sorrowness in the eyes of everyone, because seeing the defiling of such servants of the imperium is the most blasfemous act cahos has ever committed...

Thank you all for your BDSM wishes. Now look at what you have done:



Thank you a lot.

punkow wrote:If we admit that even with all their faith they can (rarely of course) fall, the whole faith thing becomes more interesting because we admit that the life of sisters is a constant battle against temptation... This makes them stand even MORE heroic... not less...

Ah, but this is already the case - just that it's a battle that they keep winning. It's one of their most defining traits. If you start making them as corruptible as everyone else you're just going to end up with Guardsmen in power armour, like they are already described in some BL novels.
I mean, every interpretation of them is just as viable as another, of course. I just don't really get why people who like them would want to make them more "normal". Usually it's just Marine fans who fear the girls challenging their Astartes superiority (which is kind of sad, they are all equally cool - if done right).

As for your idea regarding Undead Sisters - this actually seems kind of useful, as it's just dead bodies being turned into murderous puppets. And some instances of 40k fluff already made use of the zombie style, either by Chaos sorcery or some virus. Now, I kind of like the idea that Sororitas corpses could be "sacrosanct" and simply not respond to such resurrection (as I imagine that something from the original host would have to survive to move the corpse - even a Chaos Sorcerer could not command every single muscle of an undead, could he?), but that's just a feeling based on me really loving the "inexplainable" seemingly miraculous aura of the Sororitas that often sees their feats somewhere between simple fortune/zeal/determination and outright undeniable divine magic.
But hey, since we had that terrible Bloodtide, I guess anything is possible. I guess I'd actually go for it, if it wasn't an everyday occurrence and that Sorcerer was a really powerful one who pulled off some majorly complicated and unique ritual. Perhaps it could have to do with where the Sororitas died? Could have been "unhallowed ground"... What about the dead Battle Sisters who had to be left behind on Canoness Sariah's expedition to the former Shrine World of Piety that had become utterly corrupted due to its long-term exposure to a warp storm, for example? Okay, the world was exterminatus'd as the Sisters left the planet, but that doesn't necessarily mean that something might not have escaped. Just a thought.

Lynata please...
Some things are better as they are, no need to change them and ruin the fluff.
As much as I want o to see Imperial banner over T'au with billions of dead Fire Warriors under it, I can't because that would ruin the fluff.

Ah, "the fluff" cannot be ruined - there's no single interpretation of the Sisters, anyways.

Would I do an Undead Sisters army? No. But I can try to steer people's ideas into a direction that seems more in line with the "classic" image, thus not being as, ah, "offensive" as the original version of that concept. Sometimes, a bit of cooperation is much more fruitious than just saying "no", and by occasionally providing suggestions to align some idea with the core fluff, it makes the instances where I do just say "lol thats not how it works" all the more meaningful...

Yes. It happens. I've found a pic of a prime example.

Warning: Picture is NSFW

Miriael. <3

As much as I oppose the idea of mass-corruption, she would have deserved some more recognition and fan-art, or even her own miniature. Her background is just too cool.

Lynata wrote:Miriael. <3

As much as I oppose the idea of mass-corruption, she would have deserved some more recognition and fan-art, or even her own miniature. Her background is just too cool.

She might be in the Chaos: Renegade book, who knows until it is out.

Bwahahah! ZOMBIE-Nympho-bisexual-BDSM-Space Nuns...
Actually the image I had of undead sisters was something more "banshee-style" Something like this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440105a&prodId=prod1250031a
but with bolter and power armour... Nurgle zombies are actually not that appealing...

Btw, given that the "Canon" contradicts itself I think everyone should stick to the interpretation that most pleases him...
Personally I think that corruptibility (does this word exist?) of Sisters add'em a little bit of tragedy, that in a Dystopian future should be everywhere (This is the reason for which I would burn all Ward's Fluff about BA and GK... too much heroism and no weaknesses)

Panopticon wrote:They are basically baseline humans, so they can be turned, I can't think of any specific fluff instances where it happened. But in the first Grey Knights novel a sister mentions to Justicar Alaric that "I know no Grey Knight has turned, but some sisters have, it is rare and we don't like talking about it."

Or something to that effect, not the exact quote.

Uh.. they arent excatly baseline humans, they are really fanaticall/crazy filled with love for the emperor.

punkow wrote:Chaos Sisters? The Grotesque-lover in me really wants to see an army of Nympho-Bisexual-BDSM-Space Nuns...

I changed my mind. THIS is why we can't have nice things.

Belief in the Emperor is no protection from Chaos.

More than half the galaxy turned to chaos... And the Emperor was walking around then.

Sisters are mortal. Mortals can turn to chaos.

DeffDred wrote:Belief in the Emperor is no protection from Chaos.

More than half the galaxy turned to chaos... And the Emperor was walking around then.

Sisters are mortal. Mortals can turn to chaos.

Way to skip the last couple pages of arguments in favor of a short and sweet opinion. The contention of those that think that Sisters are protected from Chaos is that they have more than simple belief.

Personally, I think there's a big difference between belief and surety in your faith. The concept of belief often implies doubt. For Sisters of Battle, there is no doubt.

As to your last point, of course they can turn, but they don't.

DeffDred wrote:More than half the galaxy turned to chaos... And the Emperor was walking around then.

Technically, worship of the Emperor only sky-rocketed after He was killed, his "sacrifice" becoming the founding myth of the Temple of the Savious Emperor. There were some who believed him to be a god earlier, yes, but the ones who did fall to Chaos did so out of spite because the Emperor told them he really isn't and that they're suppose to stop this gak.



If you think that "belief in the Emperor is no protection from Chaos", what exactly is your own explanation for the Sisters' special rules?

And ... half the galaxy? I think not.

DeffDred wrote:Sisters are mortal. Mortals can turn to chaos.

I assume this includes the Grey Knights, then.

Brother Coa wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I'm not talking about what a Repentia is, or isn't, or their individual susceptibility to Chaos. That's mostly irrelevant. The very fact that Sisters ever feel the need to become a Repentia shows an inherent weakness in Sisters that Chaos can exploit. Like you said, they're only human. If they are becoming Repentia, it is (usually) because they've given into some kind of weakness or desire.

Chaos offering Sister it's powers is like multimilionare offering a newest Ferrari to the Ethiopian child.
You can't offer something to someone, while that someone is not interested in that.

And yet the sister in Daemonifuge fell to Chaos. And yet Miriael Sabathiel fell to Chaos. So we know it's happened. You guys can argue this until you're blue in the face, and I imagine you do. But it doesn't change the facts. You hang onto some single line from a Codex that is fifteen years old and obviously part of the canon that has been long since abandoned. Welcome to Retcon 40K. Most of the stuff we now hold "true" about the Horus Heresy didn't exist back then. Should we argue the Battle of Calth never happened since the Codex: Ultramarines in 1995 said the Ultramarines had been campaigning along the Galactic East and their only action in the Heresy was to smash a large force of Horus's reinforcements? No, that's stupid. The fluff has just changed. It didn't even take that long for it to happen, just a few years. There's no mention of "only one" in Codex: Witch Hunters, because by that time, there were already more. Deal with it. Preferably like an adult, unlike our 15000 post troll over there who is so hilariously convinced she is right that she can't seem to behave herself or construct a complete, rational argument. The Sisters are not inviolable to Chaos, they're just highly resistant.

Others can argue that Khorne is more correct. But I'd still be right in everything I said about Slaanesh being the most likely. You know how we know? Well, in at least three of the known times it has happened, the Sisters fell to Slaanesh. You can claim whatever you want. That GW is sexist, or the stories were written by sexually frustrated basement dwelling neckbeards... whatever. But the stories have been written, their contents embraced by GW as canon, and thus the actions have happened. The argument can be made that Khorne would appeal to their martial prowess and their holy indignance. But if you look at the fluff, it doesn't add up. Yes, Sisters can be subject to the hatred rule. Yes, they can be subject to frenzy. But it's all situational. The Sisters themselves aren't angry all the time. They're just naive and brainwashed enough that they can be easily manipulated by their superiors due to their faith, and get riled up. But after the battle, they aren't angry anymore. Their hatred isn't seething, and all consuming. It's just a tool for the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition to use. Sure, they might fall to Khorne. I wouldn't argue against it. But Slaanesh is a power that they are vulnerable to all the time. Always waiting in the wings with poisonous words and promises. Obviously from time to time, his promises are alluring and they work. And it doesn't have to be in the silly BDSM, whips and leather version of the Adeptus Sorority fantasy some players seem to have. Maybe he's just offering them the chance to relax, take their shoes off, and watch a Katherine Heigl movie or two while drinking a glass of Cab and eating chocolate ice cream. We don't really know. Certainly the depictions of what Slaanesh converted Miriael with didn't involve nipple clamps and leather straps, but she embraced it. Chaos offers the unknown, that which cannot be had, or that which is desired. But what is certain is that Slaanesh is as much about killing people as Khorne or Nurgle. Just in a different way. The Emperor's Children were warriors just like the World Eaters. Certainly their martial prowess was on par, and yet their corruption was different. Just as the Sisters are warriors, and their paths to corruption will be varied. Their faith is in a God Emperor who isn't actually a god. We know he is not actually a god from the fluff, and the questionably canonicty of their faith powers (thus being derived from nothing (*heresy!*), hence why in the supposedly holy tome of Codex: Sisters of Battle, the Sisters had no Faith Powers, just the vastly more believable Sacred Rites) is a different discussion altogether. What doesn't change is that the Sisters are, in the end, nothing more than single minded religious zealots. And those sorts of people have never been manipulated or perverted to commit atrocities.

If you still don't understand I will help you more

Thanks, but no thanks. But I'm fairly positive, and example has shown, that I know plenty more about Chaos than you do. I've been around this game since before Chaos even had its own Codex. Since before "Blood for the Blood God" became the most overused quote since "For the Emprah!"

So you throw out a Daemonifuge card, a graphic novel that is canonical as C.S. Goto novels are?
Fine, then I will use Bloodtide card were Sister faith is so strong that protected them from Chaos corruption so strong that even Grey Knights couldn't resist.
And you again compare Space Marines here, and we said many times that Marines and Sisters are not the same when it comes to personal feelings.

And I perfectly understand Chaos, it can't corrupt that easily. And you are suggesting here that it can corrupt everything and anyone. It seems that you are the one who don't know about it.

I'm not saying anything other than what has happened. I think most Black Library material is garbage. But it is what is. The fluff is rife with material of questionable quality. But GW has very deliberately eradicated the things it feels don't apply (Squats, lol), and allowed to remain what is acceptable (Daemonifuge).

As far as what you think I'm suggesting about Chaos, you're completely wrong. I understand English isn't your first language, and perhaps the context isn't easy for you to understand across the language barrier. However, what is universal despite language is that your interpretations of the Sisters is solely based on retconned and dated fluff. Chaos very obviously can corrupt anything and everyone except the Emperor. That's irrelevant to how easy or difficult it is.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I'm not saying anything other than what has happened. I think most Black Library material is garbage. But it is what is. The fluff is rife with material of questionable quality. But GW has very deliberately eradicated the things it feels don't apply (Squats, lol), and allowed to remain what is acceptable (Daemonifuge).

Yeah, a Sister that resurrect when she wants purely by faith and that is considered a greatest hope to fight Chaos since Primarchs. I think that this is proof of how their faith his strong when Sisters even killed and mutilated by Keeper of Secrets still have enough faith to combat the Chaos Gods. And that one didn't fall to Slaanesh - she was controlled by Daemon inside her. That is not falling to Chaos that is being used against your will. That Stern girl seems more like Draigo then ordinary Sister.

As far as what you think I'm suggesting about Chaos, you're completely wrong. I understand English isn't your first language, and perhaps the context isn't easy for you to understand across the language barrier. However, what is universal despite language is that your interpretations of the Sisters is solely based on retconned and dated fluff. Chaos very obviously can corrupt anything and everyone except the Emperor. That's irrelevant to how easy or difficult it is.

What did I say wrong? Chaos work via emotions of all living being ( except Necrons and Tau anyway ). Their primary fuel source now being Humanity and Eldar. But as I understand Chaos can only claim your soul if they slain you or if you succumb to them. That is why they are offering you "gifts", while in fact they are stealing your should from you and using you like a puppet.

All your claims are within questionable fluff material and your main argument is: "Because fluff from codex is 15 years old it is no longer in use.". I can't wait for new SIster codex to be released ( the real one, not this small update ) that will bring light to Sister corruption at last.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Well, in at least three of the known times it has happened, the Sisters fell to Slaanesh. You can claim whatever you want. That GW is sexist, or the stories were written by sexually frustrated basement dwelling neckbeards... whatever. But the stories have been written, their contents embraced by GW as canon, and thus the actions have happened.

Without wavering from my earlier agreement regarding Slaanesh - GW didn't really embrace anything as canon, because it doesn't exist.

"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy."
- Gav Thorpe

What is true is that the franchise is continually evolving, and that the studio has often adopted select ideas from licensed sources to include into their newest book. In case of Daemonifuge, it became recognized in Andy Hoare's Liber Sororitas article in WD #291 (hinting at the corruption in the Parnis Convent) as well as Ephrael receiving her own miniature with her own unique rules. That doesn't make anything "canon", however. What source any player adds to his perception of the setting depends on nothing more than personal preference. And in this light, you are BOTH right, as - to quote Mr. Thorpe once more - "none of these interpretations is wrong". So there really isn't any sense argueing in about it; both of you need to realize that we have different sources telling us different things, and the nature of how the franchise is run renders this detail too unstable to come to any kind of consensus, possibly apart from "Sisters are hard to corrupt", leaving open just how hard this is or if it ever occurred.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Certainly the depictions of what Slaanesh converted Miriael with didn't involve nipple clamps and leather straps, but she embraced it.

I realize I'm treading on thin ice here, but I wouldn't rule it out. Sensations are sensations, and there's a reason that kind of stuff "works" in real life.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:The fluff is rife with material of questionable quality. But GW has very deliberately eradicated the things it feels don't apply (Squats, lol), and allowed to remain what is acceptable (Daemonifuge).

"Eradicated" is a word too strong; GW doesn't care a lot what happens over at the Black Library, which is why we have all the contradictions and multilaser marines now. These days, we have novel and RPG authors publicly posting on their blogs or forums that they're going to write whatever the hell they want, after all. And even the Codices contain contradictory information - which we thought of as being retcons, but given that there is no continuity that can be retroactively changed, isn't it just another interpretation as well?

Brother Coa wrote:Yeah, a Sister that resurrect when she wants purely by faith and that is considered a greatest hope to fight Chaos since Primarchs. I think that this is proof of how their faith his strong when Sisters even killed and mutilated by Keeper of Secrets still have enough faith to combat the Chaos Gods. And that one didn't fall to Slaanesh - she was controlled by Daemon inside her. That is not falling to Chaos that is being used against your will. That Stern girl seems more like Draigo then ordinary Sister.

To be fair, Ephrael didn't resurrect by her own will or strength or any kind of faith. As I was looking for the name of that strange creature that spit on her grave, I noticed that some wikis contain a lot of flawed information about her; I can only recommend reading the source itself.

Also, that Ophelian Repentia Mistress (?) in Daemonifuge wasn't the only one who was corrupted - half the convent of Parnis fell to Asteroth, with the other half dying in the coup.

Wow, that's a nice statement.

Lynata wrote: GW doesn't care a lot what happens over at the Black Library, which is why we have all the contradictions and multilaser marines now. These days, we have novel and RPG authors publicly posting on their blogs or forums that they're going to write whatever the hell they want, after all. And even the Codices contain contradictory information - which we thought of as being retcons, but given that there is no continuity that can be retroactively changed, isn't it just another interpretation as well?

This is completely true, and why I've made no definitive statements other than to refute the idea that definitive statements can be made in most cases when it comes to 40K fluff, especially in the smaller details. At this point, until something makes the 15 to 20 year mark (that seems fair, since it bridges back to RT and early 2e) of repetition without contradiction, you can't really call it "true" lol. For example, we know the process for creating Space Marines. That goes back to 1989 and is still reprinted more or less verbatim. But other, less important details, get changed or evolve all the time. Like I've mentioned before, Dark Eldar didn't even exist, in any form or mention, until 3rd Edition, and then only because of the sheer number of Chaos Eldar that showed up as GD entrants or armies. At least the Tau were introduced in a manner than explained their absence from earlier fluff. That's how much the game has changed since C:SoB. If a person wants to make a definitive statement based on dated fluff, they had better make sure it meshes with more recent incarnations of the game. Otherwise it's just an opinion. And certainly not worthy of the vitriol some people are spewing.

Though, not to defend Goto but instead to be fair, Multilaser Marines actually used to exist back in Rogue Trader. It's kinda sad that the authors don't care about significant points of canon. There's so much room for creativity, and really not all that many things hammered out as "truth" that the more egregious breaches are signs of laziness on the part of the authors rather than the constraints of the setting.

That's certainly true, though regarding that comment on author lazyness I think multilasers were a lot smaller back then. With all the stuff I've seen from licensed publications, I've just developed a very "hit and miss" kind of feeling regarding them - to me, it seems obvious that at least some writers really just didn't bother to do their research. >_>

Though, to be fair, some of the details are hidden pretty well. Especially concerning the Sororitas fluff. It sure wasn't easy to track down all the little bits I have right now, and I still feel as if I haven't yet catched everything. Kind of frustrating, though at times I actually had fun hunting down all the snippets.

Regarding in-studio continuity, the designer's notes for the Witchhunter Codex stated that everything GW ever wrote about the Sisters, even clearly including the "ancient" Rogue Trader fluff, was still in effect as they wrote the 3E 'dex and that they took great care to make any new fluff fit into everything that came before. Contradictions such as the Bloodtide and the Parnis corruption only showed up later. Well, or in all the licensed stuff, of course; I think Daemonifuge and Dark Millennium actually predate C:WH?

Also, apologies if the earlier post seemed somewhat lecturing; from my perspective it just looked as if the two of you were both making definite claims. I guess my own posts sound like that often enough, which is why I regularly add a little disclaimer by now. It can at times be difficult to convey the exact meaning in an internet debate as we're missing out on the visual expressions that hint at how something was meant, not to mention all the different languages around here.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:And yet the sister in Daemonifuge fell to Chaos.

Being mind controlled by a greater daemon is not the same as falling to chaos.

It is certainly possible for Sisters to turn to the worship to Chaos, noone's denying that, the point is that more than any other group save for Grey Knights, they don't

DeffDred wrote:Belief in the Emperor is no protection from Chaos.

It is for Sisters, considering their beliefs help them (either through fanaticism or miraculous intervention) accomplish the impossible.

Melissia wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:And yet the sister in Daemonifuge fell to Chaos.

Being mind controlled by a greater daemon is not the same as falling to chaos.

It is certainly possible for Sisters to turn to the worship to Chaos, noone's denying that, the point is that more than any other group save for Grey Knights, they don't

DeffDred wrote:Belief in the Emperor is no protection from Chaos.

It is for Sisters, considering their beliefs help them (either through fanaticism or miraculous intervention) accomplish the impossible.

What if one of the Sisters is a Psyker and she doesn't know it yet. She gets visions of Warp Daemons but she does not want to be seen as a heretic so she does not tell the other sisters. She eventually gives in and joins Chaos.

rockerbikie wrote:What if one of the Sisters is a Psyker and she doesn't know it yet.

FFG's RPG actually touched upon this idea, but personally I maintain it's groxgak as it (as well as their "civilian" armaments there) goes against studio background regarding their obsession with purity, which would naturally include the very same genetic screenings they perform on various Imperial factions to root out hidden psykers and other mutants. Also, Shield of Faith used to neutralize psyker powers, hostile as well as benevolent.
I'm a bit bummed that its effect was changed in the last WD Minidex, though without further studio material on that subject I don't really think this has an effect on their background yet.

Ephrael Stern is as close as to a Sororitas psyker as you'll ever* get. Back when her miniature still had her own unique rules, she didn't even benefit from the SoF.

[edit]

(*: I probably shouldn't say "ever" anymore, other stuff has changed as well. )

rockerbikie wrote:What if one of the Sisters is a Psyker and she doesn't know it yet. She gets visions of Warp Daemons but she does not want to be seen as a heretic so she does not tell the other sisters. She eventually gives in and joins Chaos.

She'd be found out in the process of her Schola Progenium training or in the normal course of checking for corruption.

And besides, it's heretical to hide it -- it is NOT heretical to tell your canoness and be sent off to the inquisition to be sanctioned.

Lynata: The Sisters with said powers didn't turn to Chaos, rather, they were sent to the Inquisition or killed themselves / offered themselves to be killed. And weirdly enough it was a very specific power which allowed them to see the truth in someone's soul and find corruption, to find the taint of the psyker, so it still fit their theme to an extent.

I guess there is the possibility that they could become Psykers through contact with those they are cleansing or be latent - but they would confess their sin almost certainly as long as they recongised it for what is was and did not think it was a gift from the Emperor (much more unlikely)

If they did think it was a gift from the Emperor they'd have the Inquisition test it and see if it was a psychic power, like they do with all such potential living saints.

Agreed

The other aspect I find interesting is the possibility of Pariahs and how they interact with the Sisterhood - especially if the Emperor grants the faith powers from the Warp.

I had thought that even if a Pariah joined the Sisterhood it would be hard to intergrate her with the others. But then I guess the Sisters of Silence (if they still exisit) would be snapping any up that turn (and are recognised) up in Schola? I guess Pariahs can work together without the same issues that arise if they work with less gifted (or cursed) mortals

More likely than not the Pariah would be found out in the Schola. There's no record of the Pariah developing their traits late in life.

Maybe - I guess the Inquisiton would keep an eye out for them - however fluff seems to suggest they are seldom recongnised for what they are? Just seen as unsettling and different but little tangible to give away their powers / nature.

SoB would never "turn". To do so they would only lower their station. As it stands SoB are the epitome of absolute evil to ever exist in the 40K universe. Why would they give THAT up just for a little blood for a blood god?

Skalk Bloodaxe wrote:SoB would never "turn". To do so they would only lower their station. As it stands SoB are the epitome of absolute evil to ever exist in the 40K universe. Why would they give THAT up just for a little blood for a blood god?

Nice try, keep moving.

Mr Morden wrote:Maybe - I guess the Inquisiton would keep an eye out for them - however fluff seems to suggest they are seldom recongnised for what they are? Just seen as unsettling and different but little tangible to give away their powers / nature.

That's amongst the standard population.

The Schola Progenium is anything but standard. Students sent there are under intense scrutiny their entire lives.

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:What if one of the Sisters is a Psyker and she doesn't know it yet. She gets visions of Warp Daemons but she does not want to be seen as a heretic so she does not tell the other sisters. She eventually gives in and joins Chaos.

She'd be found out in the process of her Schola Progenium training or in the normal course of checking for corruption.

And besides, it's heretical to hide it -- it is NOT heretical to tell your canoness and be sent off to the inquisition to be sanctioned.

Lynata: The Sisters with said powers didn't turn to Chaos, rather, they were sent to the Inquisition or killed themselves / offered themselves to be killed. And weirdly enough it was a very specific power which allowed them to see the truth in someone's soul and find corruption, to find the taint of the psyker, so it still fit their theme to an extent.

What if a Sister of Battle who is a psyker gets kinapped by Slannesh Cultist and gets tortured until she joins them.

rockerbikie wrote:
What if a Sister of Battle who is a psyker gets kinapped by Slannesh Cultist and gets tortured until she joins them.

And what happens if every Sister of Battle in the galaxy becomes a Living Saint?

Then they'd be in the position of the GK at the moment, then like the Squats the next.

I don't think that GW will lever excluded another race again...
They said in interview that they excluded the Squats because they did them all wrong. But that they won't do the same thing again.

We are talking about purity of Sisters here, and their devotion - witch is now highest in the Imperium ( with Mr. Ward completely made GK less faithful then Sisters ). With a question - can they be turned to Chaos?
Answer would be: yes but very, very hard. It would require large amount of time in torture. I am sure Chaos would be able to even corrupt a Grey Knight if they ever succeed in capturing one.

What would she do if tortured until she turned to Chaos?

Simple.

She would die from her tortures, and all they would have of their troubles is a desecrated corpse.

Ok for that but what about Miriael Sabathiel?

Isn't she fall to Chaos as a result being held for many days?

Yes. If you include her into your interpretation of the fluff.

Whist I personally don't accept FFG's invention of Psyker Sisters, I do accept Sabertooth's invention of Miriael Sabathiel into my perception of the setting. I think she's a rather badass Chaos character - though her being as unique as she is powerful/influential adds a lot to her coolness.

Miriael Sabathiel fell, yes... but she is a unique character, and as I and Lynata have said ,her uniqueness is what makes her story interesting.

Sort of a one of a kind deal. Add more and it just dilutes the awesomeness and makes it utterly lame.

So, she is unique. Meaning no Sister can fall again or it's very hard to corrupt a Sister?

Brother Coa wrote:So, she is unique. Meaning no Sister can fall again or it's very hard to corrupt a Sister?

This is really a big question of personal interpretation.

For some, there already are other Sisters who were corrupted. For others, there are none at all.

Personally, I like Miriael, but I think her case should stay unique as this is what makes her so interesting. That said, the mere potential will always exist. It has to, simply because what has happened once can always happen again. Otherwise you're just having a situation like with all those people who said "this would have never happened here" after Tchernobyl. A statement which was loudly defended until Fukushima happened.

Tl;dr: in my opinion, it's just really, really hard. And whilst a repetition would be possible, it would be a poor literary decision. Sort of like the Clone Emperors in the Star Wars comics.

It's not that it's impossible that other Sisters have fallen, only that it hasn't happened. Just like it's not impossible for another nuclear weapon to be used against a civilian population in the real world, but it hasn't happened since WWII due to the efforts of the governments involved and a desire not to let it happen again.

That's not to say taht it won't happen again or that it's impossible, it's certainly possible, but very improbable.

There are no psyker Sisters. Any Sister who exhibits the psychic mutation is branded a witch and dies, after much purification by pain, alone, in the dark, in some oubliette under the Convent.

As to why Sisters don't fall to Chaos all that often? I just happened to be reading an old Gaunt's Ghosts novel recently, and this particular section stood out:

Dan Abnett wrote:(Gaunt says) "Chaos isn't evil. It simply unlocks and lets out our propensities for evil and desecration. That is why it is so pernicious. It brings out our flaws. Force of will, determination, loyalty... these are the qualities that combat Chaos taint. If a man can remain true to the Throne, Chaos can't touch him. A hatred and rejection of Chaos becomes a weapon against it."

"The armour of contempt," said Welt, "I am familiar with Inquisitor Ravenor's writings. The idea was not original to him."

Personally, I think they'd get sorted out in the Schola already - before even being considered to join the Sisterhood and enter novitiate. Any progena who is found out to be tainted by the psyker gene simply gets shipped off to serve the Imperium elsewhere - if he or she makes it through the usual tests.

Progena who are found out to be Nulls, on the other hand, would be sent to the Officio Assassinorum. I believe they have a Temple that works with Nulls? I'm not soo sure in Assassinorum fluff, so I could remember wrong here.

As for Sisters who would start to "change" into psykers due to contact with Chaos - which I suppose might be possible - I guess they would allow her to seek death on the field of battle with an Eviscerator in her hands, after much cleansing and preparation. She was a loyal Daughter of the Emperor, after all.

I have heard an instance where an entire covenant turned to chaos.....so yes

That is like the 3rd company of Ultramarines going renegade though...

riverhawks32 wrote:I have heard an instance where an entire covenant turned to chaos.....so yes

Source?

And there's a difference between turning to Chaos and serving it willingly, and being mind-controlled like a puppet by an alpha-class psyker or similar being.

Not sure as to the source, I heard about it from one of the guys at my local GW.

So... probably them talking about the GK codex and misremembering or misinterpreting what it was they read, or taking a fan-fic as a licensed product.

Lots of people seem to believe that if a Chaos Sorcerer or Psyker does some mumbo-jumbo that allows him to do Jedi Mind Tricks on you, or dance you around like a puppet on a string, that you've "fallen to Chaos". You haven't, you've just had your free will (and muscular control) subverted by another. You didn't willfully allow this to happen and may, in the event that you are, or become, aware of the situation, be utterly filled with loathing and remorse for what was done without your permission. Some victims may even swallow their boltguns (or chainfists or lasguns or whatever) once they realize what's happened.

Falling to Chaos requires the participant to make an active, willing choice to abandon the God-Emperor and serve the powers of Chaos instead. Maybe they serve one of the Great Four, maybe a minor god or a Daemon Prince, or maybe Chaos Undivided. Doesn't matter. What does matter is that they choose to do this willingly and honestly. Coercion may be involved, as in a gun to the head, but even in such situations you have the choice to serve Chaos or have your brains splattered onto the ground. The God-Emperor has a place in His train for those who choose the latter.

Any sister can be captured and possessed by a daemonette but as far as the TRUE fluff is that only one sister ever turned to chaos willingly.

However the black library says a few have turned but I don't count that as canon.

riverhawks32 wrote:I have heard an instance where an entire covenant turned to chaos.....so yes

No. They were being mind controlled by a ridiculously powerful psyker.

That is not the same as turning to the worship of Chaos.

He could be talking about the convent of Parnis.

shadowsnip wrote:Any sister can be captured and possessed by a daemonette but as far as the TRUE fluff is that only one sister ever turned to chaos willingly.

If only there were such a thing as "true" fluff... :(

But even if you only count Miriael - personally, I don't see her corruption as "willingly". In my eyes, this implies a conscious and deliberate choice made in acceptance of some kind of deal, such as cultists praying to Khorne for strength to overthrow their tyrannic Imperial governor.
Being tortured to the point of madness, all the while being exposed to the taint of Chaos, doesn't really compare to that. In that sense, I could not think that any Sister would ever "fall willingly" - and as far as I'm aware, no such instance has ever been described in the fluff, not even the licensed material.

Ironically, I see daemonic possession as having a far smaller chance at success than lengthy torture and subversion simply due to the Sisters' sheer conviction and power of will in day-to-day situations.

As far as Black Library is concerned, I fully agree that licensed material in general is very "hit and miss" on the subject of Sororitas, and I've read a lot of stuff that just makes me shake my head. Fortunately, the absence of canonicity means we can choose what to adopt and dismiss from our personal interpretation of the setting (just like BL writers do it themselves) - I recommend making use of that option, for there's both a lot of good and terrible ideas in the books.

In terms of good ideas, for example, I've adopted the idea of the Chaplet Ecclesiasticus containing a hidden blade for self-martyrdom (as described in "Faith & Fire") into our Dark Heresy game. It just seemed fitting and makes for a nice detail.

I'm only aware of the Demonifuge.

Oh and there's a bloke called Bob The Merciless down my local pub. He's a real S.O.B and when he's had a few he can definitely turn at the slightest provocation so yeah, I'd say it's defo possible for one to turn. Iv'e seen it happen and it's not nice.

Muhr wrote:I'm only aware of the Demonifuge.

Which is where they were mind controlled by a greater daemon of tzeentch (I believe?)....

Sisters being "mind controlled" is like Nazis "Just following orders".

If you can be mind controlled youre being manipulated.

Being manipulated by Chaos is the same as serving chaos.

Can a sister be turned? Yes. Willingly? Perhaps not so much.

DeffDred wrote:Sisters being "mind controlled" is like Nazis "Just following orders".

No.

They are not even remotely the same.

Even if they were (And they aren't), that philosophical babble in your post just makes my eyes roll...

Claiming everyone who is manipulated by anyone else (or does this only apply to Chaos?) is "serving" their manipulator is pointless semantics at best, and blatantly misrepresenting the scenario otherwise.

riverhawks32 wrote:I have heard an instance where an entire covenant turned to chaos.....so yes

Where did you hear that?

I suppose since this is Background topic I would agree that there is clearly very little reference to the subject matter.

To the OP, I think there's only so much that can be concluded.

In the end it's a game. We as players are the masters of our figures fates... well, as far as what colors they are and why they fight ect.

If you want to create an army or write a story or draw a picture ect. of Sisters who are "Turned" that's your call to make.

40k is a much better game as a whole when you use the word "yes" more often. There's a great "Word in your ear" article about it in WD.

I just realized he misspelled convent lol...

DeffDred wrote:
If you want to create an army or write a story or draw a picture ect. of Sisters who are "Turned" that's your call to make.

Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

What about your Chaos Worshipping Imperial Dark Orkanid Taucron Swarm?

shadowsnip wrote:Any sister can be captured and possessed by a daemonette but as far as the TRUE fluff is that only one sister ever turned to chaos willingly.

However the black library says a few have turned but I don't count that as canon.

That was from the 2nd Edition Codex. In the same series of Codexes, the Ultramarines were campaigning on the far side of the galaxy and their contribution to the Heresy was to smash Horus's reinforcements.

The canon has changed. Neither story (1 sister to Chaos, nor the Ultramarines smashing the reinforcements) still exists in the fluff. It changed and somebody realized that there's nothing special about the Sisters to make them immune to Chaos. Get over it.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Neither story (1 sister to Chaos, nor the Ultramarines smashing the reinforcements) still exists in the fluff. It changed and somebody realized that there's nothing special about the Sisters to make them immune to Chaos. Get over it.

False.

The Sisters part is true.

Brother Coa wrote:Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

Just because your fluff is awful does not mean you can't compete in tournaments.

ph34r wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

Just because your fluff is awful does not mean you can't compete in tournaments.

Depends on the proxying rules and rules on what percentage need to be GW models.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

shadowsnip wrote:Any sister can be captured and possessed by a daemonette but as far as the TRUE fluff is that only one sister ever turned to chaos willingly.

However the black library says a few have turned but I don't count that as canon.

That was from the 2nd Edition Codex. In the same series of Codexes, the Ultramarines were campaigning on the far side of the galaxy and their contribution to the Heresy was to smash Horus's reinforcements.

The canon has changed. Neither story (1 sister to Chaos, nor the Ultramarines smashing the reinforcements) still exists in the fluff. It changed and somebody realized that there's nothing special about the Sisters to make them immune to Chaos. Get over it.

Both still exist.
1 Sister falling to Chaos is still there.
Ultramarines defeated every Chaos ongoing troops after they dealt with Word Bearers.


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ph34r wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

Just because your fluff is awful does not mean you can't compete in tournaments.

No, it's a general rule.
Imperial forces stay Imperial and non-Imperial forces stay non-Imperial.
Same goes for Chaos Sisters.

Brother Coa wrote:No, it's a general rule.
Imperial forces stay Imperial and non-Imperial forces stay non-Imperial.
Same goes for Chaos Sisters.

"General rule"? I can think of no tournament that would deny you as long as your models were correct and everything was WYSIWYG, no matter how dumb a theme the army is.

Here the rules are like that.
Only official army's, custom Chapters, Warbands, Sept's approved.
No crossovers of any kind, and that includes Chaotic Orks or Sisters.
Here, if you put Chaos Sings on Imperial Astartes and you singed them as Space Marine Renegades you can't play. You can play only as Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines, everything else is not included.

Brother Coa wrote:Both still exist.
1 Sister falling to Chaos is still there.
Ultramarines defeated every Chaos ongoing troops after they dealt with Word Bearers.

Um, no, they aren't. The Battle of Calth can be found in White Dwarf 270 back in 2002. If you look in the 5th Edition Space Marine codex, there is no mention of the reinforcements (no mention of it at all in the 3rd or 4th). This is because when the original Codex: Ultramarines was written, the universe had much less fluff describing it.

And there is no mention of the "1 Sister" in either Codex: Witch Hunters or the new White Dwarf codex, but there have been published instances of possessed sisters and several where they've been either dominated or otherwise turned/controlled which automatically infers a change in the canon interpretation of the Sisters. As stuff has been fleshed out, things have changed. Dark Eldar didn't even exist in the fluff when either of those codexes were written, and the Tau had yet to have been introduced either. Things change. And you just adapt and accept the changes.

Brother Coa wrote:Here the rules are like that.
Only official army's, custom Chapters, Warbands, Sept's approved.
No crossovers of any kind, and that includes Chaotic Orks or Sisters.
Here, if you put Chaos Sings on Imperial Astartes and you singed them as Space Marine Renegades you can't play. You can play only as Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines, everything else is not included.

Wow, that sucks.

ph34r wrote:Wow, that sucks.

I know, I wanted to play with Necrons. When I told them I wanted to do Imperial Necrons ( Necrons who would fight for the God Emperor ) they told me this rule.
I could only play Necrons and Necrons, no other combos included.
Same was when we have regional tournament with people coming from 10 countries in region.


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Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Um, no, they aren't. The Battle of Calth can be found in White Dwarf 270 back in 2002. If you look in the 5th Edition Space Marine codex, there is no mention of the reinforcements (no mention of it at all in the 3rd or 4th). This is because when the original Codex: Ultramarines was written, the universe had much less fluff describing it.

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra - those were reinforcements for Horus even if that wasn't mentioned.

And there is no mention of the "1 Sister" in either Codex: Witch Hunters or the new White Dwarf codex, but there have been published instances of possessed sisters and several where they've been either dominated or otherwise turned/controlled which automatically infers a change in the canon interpretation of the Sisters. As stuff has been fleshed out, things have changed. Dark Eldar didn't even exist in the fluff when either of those codexes were written, and the Tau had yet to have been introduced either. Things change. And you just adapt and accept the changes.

I will, after the Sister codex 6'th edition arrive and tells the same story about that one Sister falling and every other remained pure. Until then we will embrace the old fluff as we have until now, get over it.

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra

Now you're just making things up. Fair enough.

Until then we will embrace the old fluff as we have until now.

That's my point. The old fluff you have says that other Sisters have been corrupted.

Melissia wrote:

Muhr wrote:I'm only aware of the Demonifuge.

Which is where they were mind controlled by a greater daemon of tzeentch (I believe?)....

Of Slaanesh. And it wasn't mind control, it was corruption through such old-time favorites like (I assume) crazy dreams and visions, whispers in one's head, the creeping taint where forbidden thoughts are stirred and focused - as it is often described in detail in other books. Though there seem to be two instances in the story: The slow corruption of individual Sisters Pronatus at the start even before the Order relocated to Parnis, and the instant(?) possession of the Orders Militant rescue team that was sent to check up on the convent. The latter could well be direct mind control, I suppose.

"Once we were as you. Once we were Sororitas. Ours was not the way of battle, rather, we followed the winding path of study.
We found our direction when IT was discovered - a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh, a Keeper of Secrets.
We knew not how it came to be imprisoned, but our course was clear - perhaps through study we might better understand the enemy and learn its weaknesses.
The price was high. Many of our number succumbed to its lies and whispers, and had to be put down by sword and fire.
So we moved the study here. Hidden from righteous eyes, until we were certain our knowledge was safe to share.
For three hundred years we continued our blessed inquiry, and the Imperium forgot we ever existed.
Our studies were finally ended when IT escaped.

He considered himself an artist of pain. We are his masterpiece.
Our souls were not enough - he needed still more to leave the plane and return to the great darkness which spawned him.
When you and your comrades arrived, Asteroth was waiting and claimed those of you not strong enough to resist him.
Sister slew Sister. It was not long before you alone remained."

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

shadowsnip wrote:Any sister can be captured and possessed by a daemonette but as far as the TRUE fluff is that only one sister ever turned to chaos willingly.
However the black library says a few have turned but I don't count that as canon.

That was from the 2nd Edition Codex. In the same series of Codexes, the Ultramarines were campaigning on the far side of the galaxy and their contribution to the Heresy was to smash Horus's reinforcements.
The canon has changed. Neither story (1 sister to Chaos, nor the Ultramarines smashing the reinforcements) still exists in the fluff. It changed and somebody realized that there's nothing special about the Sisters to make them immune to Chaos. Get over it.

I'd have to intervene here.

1) "Only one Sister having been turned" was not mentioned in any Codex or any other studio book at all. I've checked both the 2E and the 3E one and nowhere did I find any mention of this instance. Whoever wrote that into Lexicanum was simply wrong. Miriael Sabathiel was a creation by Sabertooth Games who did the Dark Millennium Trading Card Game for 40k, and Dan Abnett wrote a short story about her. That's it.

2) At least up to the 3E Codex, there were zero changes in Sororitas fluff from studio perspective. The Designer's Note outright clarify that even the Rogue Trader snippets were still held as sacrosanct by the time the Witchhunters Codex was written.
This did not prevent them from mentioning Parnis in a WD article, mind you - but as Gav Thorpe explained on his blog, the studio often adopts individual details from certain licensed material whilst ignoring the rest. One could also argue that Parnis doesn't count as it weren't SoB but Sisters Pronatus. Not that it matters much.

3) There is no canon in 40k. Only a lot of overlapping interpretations. Pick the things you like and feel free to ignore the rest. It's what BL and FFG writers do all the time, too - as they publicly stated, and which should explain why there are at times glaring contradictions between licensed publications and studio material. In terms of consistency, it sucks - but by now I'm rather fortunate I can pick and choose, for there's a load of groxcrap that has found its way into the fluff, particularly from the BL direction.

So wait, the snippet of "proof" that so many people are hanging their hats on doesn't even actually exist? I flipped through the 2E Codex: Sisters at one point recently, but didn't find it. It really came down to not caring enough to actually scour a bunch of fifteen year old fluff for a single sentence. Shame on me for assuming that the overzealous Sister Trolls had to be right about something just because they were so fervently insistent of it.

So then the actual answer to this thread, that could have been solved on Page 1 is "Yes, like Space Marines, they can and will turn at the drop of a hat depending on what kind of cheap narrative tool an author needs."

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra

Now you're just making things up. Fair enough.

So I am making things up that are stated in codex?
I am done here, there is no reasoning with you...

Veteran Sergeant wrote:So wait, the snippet of "proof" that so many people are hanging their hats on doesn't even actually exist? I flipped through the 2E Codex: Sisters at one point recently, but didn't find it. It really came down to not caring enough to actually scour a bunch of fifteen year old fluff for a single sentence. Shame on me for assuming that the overzealous Sister Trolls had to be right about something just because they were so fervently insistent of it.

So then the actual answer to this thread, that could have been solved on Page 1 is "Yes, like Space Marines, they can and will turn at the drop of a hat depending on what kind of cheap narrative tool an author needs."

Sort of. The consensus - at least as far as GW is concerned - would seem to be that they are considerably harder to corrupt due to their singleminded faith and conviction, which quite simply makes them more dedicated than the Marines, who also care about more "personal" stuff such as honor and Chapter history (which can be turned into a weakness when they'd have to choose between their pride and their duty to the Imperium).

But in the end, as with any and all details of the 40k fluff - yes, it comes down to whoever writes something about it. Which is why we have so many occurrences in Black Library novels where the author completely failed to produce anything resembling the faction presented in GW's own material. Buuut I'm sure some people get a perverted sense of satisfaction from reading that sort of stuff.

Gav Thorpe wrote:Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong.

Brother Coa wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra

Now you're just making things up. Fair enough.

So I am making things up that are stated in codex?

That's exactly what you're doing. Do you think I don't have access to that Codex? That I can't look at it, and verify that what you said is not actually printed in it?

Veteran Sergeant wrote:That's exactly what you're doing. Do you think I don't have access to that Codex? That I can't look at it, and verify that what you said is not actually printed in it?

"Upon learning of the treachery, Roboute immediately set course for Terra, destroying Chaos reinforcements along the way, but arrived after the war had already been won. Because of this, the Ultramarines were one of the few Legions at full strength; thus, Roboute and his Ultramarines bore much of the burden of holding the Imperium together against aliens and Chaos forces in the aftermath of the Heresy. During this time, the Ultramarines recruited heavily from their homeworld and eventually counted for over half of the Loyalist Marines. Around a decade after the Heresy ended, the Imperium finally reached a point of stability."

I'm going with yes, and lots of times.

I'm even reckoning on all four powers at one time or another, however I don't need to see that in a book.

Thats just my view of the 40K universe, although they are faithful, faith sadly has shown itself to be too danged easy to corrupt with the right ammount of motivation, and some of these Chaos powers have that in spades.

Hell Tzeentch would just do it for giggles, he'd not even realy need any long thought out plan for the reason, just .. because.

Of course my view of the 40K universe may differ to thine own.

Morathi, you just want to see a tied up Sister make out with the old (and better looking) Daemonette models, don't lie, we all know it's true

He's not saying nothing.


Although my current desktop is a very nice Khorne Sisters pic, I lifted from Brooks thread in DCM.


One of the things I must admit I am looking forward too is the new sisters codex, just as all the background material in there has to be focused on them for the first time in ages, will be eager to see what the team come up with.

People are REALLY obsessed with fallen Sisters these days...

these days.. you new to the hobby lad?

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:these days.. you new to the hobby lad?

Yeah, seriously.

People have always gone the boring generic "take [army name here], add Chaos!" route to try to give themselves that special snowflake feeling.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:these days.. you new to the hobby lad?

No, but I am quite orthodox. And see more in Sisters then just boob girls with guns.

Aye, so do I.. don't let the avatar fool you.

Brother Coa wrote:

DeffDred wrote:
If you want to create an army or write a story or draw a picture ect. of Sisters who are "Turned" that's your call to make.

Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

You can't use pink sisters with chaos symbols in a tournament?? thats BS! I think it should be okay as long as you follow the bloody codex!

What would you play them as, Traitor Guard? They wouldn't get their Acts of Faith powers, they no longer have faith in the God-Emperor, which is the origin of those powers. You'd have to treat them like some oddball Chaos Sorcerer or something, I guess.

Eh, they just become "Acts of Debasement" and end up as a "Counts As" army like every other "Counts As" army.

People play Space Marine armies using the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codexes all the time, even though their armies might not be furries or Twilight rejects.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
People play Space Marine armies using the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codexes all the time, even though their armies might not be furries or Twilight rejects.

Do not ever again compare Sons of Sanguinius with that joke of a movie. Blood Angels have some pride for Emepror's sake...

well, I never have been fond of warrior nuns so even if it was possible for ALL of them to convert to chaos, I wouldn't care.
*prepares for *

Um, thanks for bumping this thread with this sophisticated and relevant message, I guess.

Lynata wrote:Um, thanks for bumping this thread with this sophisticated and relevant message, I guess.

I guess that we need more then 8 pages for this

google "Sister of Nurgle" - a short story about a sister of battle that turns to the dark powers of Nurgle...

Fan fiction I presume?

*see the 1d4chan*

Yep, as canonical as ancient aliens are to the founding of USA.

I still maintain that Nurgle is the least likely of all Chaos gods that could offer any sort of enticement to a member of the Sororitas.

The way I see it: Slaanesh > Tzeentch > Khorne > Nurgle

But hey, interpretations!

spacewolf407 wrote:google "Sister of Nurgle" - a short story about a sister of battle that turns to the dark powers of Nurgle...

It's a fan-fic. That doesn't mean anything to the very-loose "canon" (heh, "loose canon") that GW has for their game.

I could as easily write a story about the Inquisition deciding enough was e-fething-nough, committing massive amounts of Exterminatus, and wiping both the Ork and the Tyranid from the face of the galaxy in a particularly brisk weekend... but that doesn't mean that it ever happened in the universe-at-large of 40K..

Psienesis wrote:

spacewolf407 wrote:google "Sister of Nurgle" - a short story about a sister of battle that turns to the dark powers of Nurgle...

It's a fan-fic. That doesn't mean anything to the very-loose "canon" (heh, "loose canon") that GW has for their game.

I could as easily write a story about the Inquisition deciding enough was e-fething-nough, committing massive amounts of Exterminatus, and wiping both the Ork and the Tyranid from the face of the galaxy in a particularly brisk weekend... but that doesn't mean that it ever happened in the universe-at-large of 40K..

Not to necro (I dont feel its a necro, its only been two weeks ) but that fic is particularly nsfw (its feels oddly Slaaneshi anyway, but eeeh), its on 1d4 chan, but I originally read it and the thematically, but not really related Plague Daughter. I feel like painting again, something chaos, so Plague Sororitas is on the table. Although Brides of Khorne/Slaughter Sisters is amusing, and I am reminded of Valkia the Bloody from Warhammer Fantasy. Slaanesh is nice, and IF YOU WANNA see a SoB Slaanesh army all painted up

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?224094-Sisters-of-Slaanesh-(new-race)

That's just one thread, but for Chaos Sisters, that one feels a bit "obvious" so I would go for something different or Chaos Undivided. I can see them turning their extreme faith and zeal like Lorgar did. Alternatively, I can see one losing all faith, and falling to despair under Nurgle. Any warrior can fall to Khorne worship. I dont see Tzeentch too much in them myself, but it could happen to one in particular, and Slaanesh....I dont know. Of course WE ALL KNOW why people would like to paint them up as Slaaneshi cultists (just look at the above).

That aside, I think some sisters would look just fine mixed in with some Chaos Marines.

All that put aside, it looks to me like someone (published that is) has written of SoB being turned in some fashion or another, and its not written (in codexes at least) that "only one" has ever fallen. Even if it was written of ONE that did fall, that wouldnt make them the only ones necessarily.