First a disclaimer: this isn't intended to be a GW bashing thread. Its just a question

I am a younger gamer and was wondering how the GW prices have gone up in relation to inflation? Is a 33$ Rhino about comparable to the prices around the RT/ 2nd/ 3rd edition prices (In relation to inflation, etc)

I seem to remember a big discussion about it after the Finecast price hike. Killkrazy made a spreadsheet calculating what how prices would be if they followed inflation and what they are actually, if you have the patience and the aptitude to work the Dakka search engine to find the relevant thread.

In relative terms you get a lot less for your money now as GW prices have consistently raised higher than inflation.

The models they make now are not the same as back then, the Rhino is a different casting. But again, the old rhino model had still undergone higher-than-inflation price increases up to the point at which it was removed from the shelves. Originally they were 3 for £10 (in about 1988) but soon came to be sold separately. I think they were £15 each when they were removed from sale for the new release which was in the early 2000s.

Some other models increase due to them reducing the number in the box while altering the price. Catachans were £10 for 20 when first released for 3rd ed 40K and now they are £18 for 10.

Eldar Aspect Warrior price hike from NZ$64 to NZ$75.

Wave Serpent costs NZ$87 whilst Raider, Chimera, Rhino, Ghost Ark all cost NZ$64,WTF?

A SINGLE GUARDIAN JETBIKE costs NZ$23 and a Shrieker Jetbike costs NZ$32.

WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????

Basically GW has consistently doubled or tripled the rate of inflation in their price hikes over the last 10 years. The result has compounded.

Because the only other country to pay more for this stuff than us Aussies are you kiwis.

It's payback for the All-blacks beating them at their own game.
(They just don't like Australia - hence why they stole our best and brightest to go to the US. I miss Dave Taylor's visits to my (old) local store.)

Don't forget Japan, Brazil, South Africa and a few other places.

Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation. I seem to remember Imperial Guards being 20 for £15 including a heavy weapon squad around 3/4 years ago (I think it included a HWS anyway)


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Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation. I seem to remember Imperial Guards being 20 for £15 including a heavy weapon squad around 3/4 years ago (I think it included a HWS anyway)

Nope, the guard boxes did not include HWT - they were a separate box (RT Imperial Guard DID include Lascannons for every x guy though).

When I first got into wargaming, (~5 years ago?) I bought SM tac squads for $30 US and a land raider for $50 US, no discount. So, prices have gone up considerably. I certainly know my parents would have laughed at me if prices were this high when I started buying in.

adameast wrote:Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation.

'Practically the same design'? It's an updated kit. It's going to look similar.

Not defending the inflation here, but that statement is just stupid.

New genestealers are multi-part with optional parts. The older ones were simply three part assemblies that all looked the same, so it's not really fair.

I haven't got any of the new ones but much prefer them.

DoctorZombie wrote: First a disclaimer: this isn't intended to be a GW bashing thread. Its just a question

I am a younger gamer and was wondering how the GW prices have gone up in relation to inflation? Is a 33$ Rhino about comparable to the prices around the RT/ 2nd/ 3rd edition prices (In relation to inflation, etc)

About 500% mark up from the old RT era days.

Unexcusable on any planet.

Oh, and 3 rhinos per box, 2 landraiders per box, a regiment of around 30+ guys in thier boxed set.

They had a couple of WHITE DWARF games, where they would end up selling you the figs for them- all told the guys were less then eight bucks or so.
those boxed sets, cost around 10 -15 bucks. Metals? pft... a measily 20 bucks.

I'm wondering what the cost progression for individual characters is.

I remember looking at the selection at the FLGS a few days ago, and the prices were just absurdly high. Single blister characters with an average price of $25, ranging between $20 and $30 per character. I mean, I've only been wargaming for 4 years now, but I remember when I bought a Big Mek for $18... looking on the shelf now, he's $30.

GW prices, especially in the last 5/6 years, have generally risen about 3x inflation, codex books and basic Guardsmen are ~165% of what they cost back in 2006. At this rate a codex will be $55 in 2016. Given the current financial and economic environment, where many people haven't seen a raise in years or lost their jobs/can't get them/are underemployed/etc, this is a double-whammy.

TL;DR GW's prices rising several multiples higher than inflation, game becoming noticeably more expensive than it was previously even adjusted for inflation, while wages have remained largely stagnant or even declined during the same time period, making it even more expensive.

They've done a steady increase just over the past few years, (No account from me before then as I was not looking at buying anything).

To show a small example; the Grot Oiler model, http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440269a&prodId=prod1140253 was originally realeased slightly after the Ork codex was, at a price of 5.15$ or so, don't remember the cents exactly. Anyway, the codex was released back in 2008 and we're going to assume that even though the Oiler model came after the initial codex, since the book was in january that the model came during that same year. Over the next three years this model has jumped in price from it's original 5.15$ to a cost of 8.25$. This may not be astronomical but it's till a heavty percentage of a jump for something like that.

Another fun example is the Assault on Black Reach which was, when I bought it last summer, 60$ now being priced at 100$.

These seem to be, I believe, a 30% or so increase in price on a year to year basis. I've no comparison to other gaming cites and stores but it seems to be a rather hefty

Grot 6 wrote:

DoctorZombie wrote: First a disclaimer: this isn't intended to be a GW bashing thread. Its just a question

I am a younger gamer and was wondering how the GW prices have gone up in relation to inflation? Is a 33$ Rhino about comparable to the prices around the RT/ 2nd/ 3rd edition prices (In relation to inflation, etc)

About 500% mark up from the old RT era days.

Unexcusable on any planet.

Oh, and 3 rhinos per box, 2 landraiders per box, a regiment of around 30+ guys in thier boxed set.

They had a couple of WHITE DWARF games, where they would end up selling you the figs for them- all told the guys were less then eight bucks or so.
those boxed sets, cost around 10 -15 bucks. Metals? pft... a measily 20 bucks.

Price of a Ford Model T vs the price of their top end Luxo SUV? I dunno, yes it's more expensive but can you really compare something like a RTB-01 to a current Death Company? IMO there is too much detail (I hate painting it) on current minis and think they should have more cleaner lines like Infinity or Hasslefree as I can bang out their minis and enjoy the brush work

Some items have gone up way more than others.

For example, IG troopers cost $29 for 10 now rather than the old $30 for 20, ensuring no new player will accidentally pick IG.

ph34r wrote:Some items have gone up way more than others.

For example, IG troopers cost $29 for 10 now rather than the old $30 for 20, ensuring no new player will accidentally pick IG.

You'd think so, but they are my first and favorite army, no matter how much money I've thrown away because of them.

Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality. The question to ask is weather or not it is a fair price related to the cost GW has invested into the current products.

Things like paying the artists, the overhead regarding molds/materials and packaging/shipping and staff as well as the AMAZING return policy (which they take a hit for). How much does it cost to get the stuff out?

Well, I personally don't know but I could see the markup for GW products being something like 800-1000% which is pretty crazy but not unheard of, look at the clothing industry, for example. Only thing is GW has a monopoly on GW products and kits so its not exactly fair IMO to charge the prices they are charging.

I wonder if lowering the prices substantially will increase sales/profits...I believe it will. I know that I make it a point NEVER to buy anything retail/full price from GW and most if not ALL of my current forces are from prize support from tournaments or ebay/trades.

mortetvie wrote:Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality.

Finecast?

Fafnir wrote:

mortetvie wrote:Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality.

Finecast?

If only we could say that

Fafnir wrote:

mortetvie wrote:Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality.

Finecast?

Look at the models 10-5 years ago compared to today, the ones today look so much cooler IMO. Some of the new kits are really great like the necro sphinx/war sphinx model and I do like the direction the new plastics are going in. I think the Lizardmen line from Fantasy or the Dark Elf line are a good indication, the old plastics were hideous for saurus warriors lol... I still have 40 of them.

mortetvie wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

mortetvie wrote:Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality.

Finecast?

Look at the models 10-5 years ago compared to today, the ones today look so much cooler IMO. Some of the new kits are really great like the necro sphinx/war sphinx model and I do like the direction the new plastics are going in. I think the Lizardmen line from Fantasy or the Dark Elf line are a good indication, the old plastics were hideous for saurus warriors lol... I still have 40 of them.

While design has improved, the quality of the finecast that get sold is pitiful, some models are so deformed that they cannot be repaired, GW is reasonably gracious and offers returns but even then you could still get ANOTHER bad model. The only measure of avoidance is to shop at a local store that allows you to open the packaging to check out the model before purchasing it.

I think when I got into playing in maybe 1996? I got a box of 20 gobbos for 30-35 AU$, the exact same models now cost 55 AU$ for the 20.

I would have to say that the new models gw are producing are somewhat better quality than previous models made.

The new DE range is a good example, pretty high quality stuff.


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Yeah the stuff is expensive, but I still buy it, just cause I enjoy the hobby.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Don't forget Japan, Brazil, South Africa and a few other places.

Pretty much everywhere outside of US and EU wasn't it? Even then there are probably places in the EU.

mortetvie wrote:Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality.

The exact same Cadian troopers that cost $35 for 20 in 2009 are $29 for 10 now, that's a 65% price hike in two years for the exact same models.

Vaktathi wrote:

mortetvie wrote:Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality.

The exact same Cadian troopers that cost $35 for 20 in 2009 are $29 for 10 now, that's a 65% price hike in two years for the exact same models.

But look at that new awesome box art...Worth it!

Squidmanlolz wrote:

mortetvie wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

mortetvie wrote:Prices have considerably gone up but so has the quality.

Finecast?

Look at the models 10-5 years ago compared to today, the ones today look so much cooler IMO. Some of the new kits are really great like the necro sphinx/war sphinx model and I do like the direction the new plastics are going in. I think the Lizardmen line from Fantasy or the Dark Elf line are a good indication, the old plastics were hideous for saurus warriors lol... I still have 40 of them.

While design has improved, the quality of the finecast that get sold is pitiful, some models are so deformed that they cannot be repaired, GW is reasonably gracious and offers returns but even then you could still get ANOTHER bad model. The only measure of avoidance is to shop at a local store that allows you to open the packaging to check out the model before purchasing it.

Exactley why I asked for the metal farseer for christmas.

Please note I have been talking about the plastics, not finecast. I have no experience with finecast and am not too enthused on investing in any finecast models anytime soon.

-Loki- wrote:

adameast wrote:Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation.

'Practically the same design'? It's an updated kit. It's going to look similar.

Not defending the inflation here, but that statement is just stupid.

Stupid is a bit harsh don't you think?

Its basically the same as plug and play space marines these days (which are of a good quality in all fairness).

If I was a 'nid player and I was offered the option of 12 Genestealers for £5 in that vein, I'd bite their hand off.

So, yes, it is inflation. Its the same model, same base design (old one - http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmIPGJDGHhYAMNy8x790NbYuV1T2r0O1pLb1T_c3Iwg02z7uYThKYaytwW new one - http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/e/ec/Tyranid_Genestealers.jpg).

Stupid would be "I used to get an old Rhino for £10 and the new ones are £20.50 now". They're massively different quality of model.

They recently (last march I think..) hiked the price around 25%, then shortly after that when UK VAT rose, they increased it to cover the tax rather than eat it like pretty much other company even though they'd just upped the cost.

Then, with the release of finecast there was another price hike, the supposedly cheaper medium of finecast replacing the supposedly more expensive medium of metal seeing those models becoming roughly another 30%-50% more expensive.

In 3rd edition your standard troop (i.e. Space Marines, Dark Eldar Warriors etc) was about £12 for a full squad, not the £15-18 for half a unit.

Furthermore certain boxes such as the old DE warriors before the update, Necron Warriors and whatnot that haven't changed in the last decade are brought up to match.

The starter pack was £40-50, came with 2 armies, the full rulebook (the hardback one), templates, dice and a basic paint set.

In the last 10 years most things have increased around 50% overall, while GWs product has doubled.

Ovion wrote:They recently (last march I think..) hiked the price around 25%, then shortly after that when UK VAT rose, they increased it to cover the tax rather than eat it like pretty much other company even though they'd just upped the cost.

Then, with the release of finecast there was another price hike, the supposedly cheaper medium of finecast replacing the supposedly more expensive medium of metal seeing those models becoming roughly another 30%-50% more expensive.

In 3rd edition your standard troop (i.e. Space Marines, Dark Eldar Warriors etc) was about £12 for a full squad, not the £15-18 for half a unit.

Furthermore certain boxes such as the old DE warriors before the update, Necron Warriors and whatnot that haven't changed in the last decade are brought up to match.

The starter pack was £40-50, came with 2 armies, the full rulebook (the hardback one), templates, dice and a basic paint set.

Not sure which Starter pack you're talking about. If you're talking about the boxed 40k/WFB game boxes, they have never come with hardcover rulebooks or paints.

I stand corrected, I must have been bought the starter paints at the same time, however it did come with 32 Dark Eldar Warriors, 20 Space Marines and a Land Speeder as well as Gothic Ruins and Jungle scenery sprues, clear plastic templates and the full Rule Book.

When I said hardback, I meant same as thehardback : the full-blown book with all the fluff in.

Another point to consider is the points value of games. When I was playing 40k around 2001, standard games were around 1500 pts. Those values have gone up from what I've seen (I think 1750 was a standard army a couple of years back) AND many model/unit fielding points have gone down. The result is often larger points totals for games with units that cost fewer points to field so you need more models overall. That's often muddied in the water when folks say I used to buy 10 tac marines for $25/box and compare it with the $33/box (or so) they cost now.

When I started:
You could buy a box of 30 space marines with flamers and heavy weapons in the box for $30.

Now, that same $30 will get you 5 space marines. with no special or heavy weapons. Or you can pay half again as much and get 10 men, with special weapons and a missile launcher.

I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

adameast wrote:Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation. I seem to remember Imperial Guards being 20 for £15 including a heavy weapon squad around 3/4 years ago (I think it included a HWS anyway)

It's a new kit for Genestealers now, but I believe the old miniature (body with arms which inserted into the sides) as used in Space Hulk were the oldest miniatures used by GW. Think they still look pretty cool though

SuperCow wrote:I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

This is the third time this general message have been presented in this thread.


While I am no GW apologist AT ALL, it is unfair to hint at that the release of Finecast was the cause of a price hike.
There was an planned annual price increase that GW was stupid enough to let coincide with the release of Finecast making a lot of people think that the models (made from a cheaper material) was sold at a higher price due to the very change mof material.

It really wasn't. It was simply GWs usual inability to market their product well, and their general disregard of their customers intelligence.

Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

privateer4hire wrote:Another point to consider is the points value of games. When I was playing 40k around 2001, standard games were around 1500 pts. Those values have gone up from what I've seen (I think 1750 was a standard army a couple of years back) AND many model/unit fielding points have gone down. The result is often larger points totals for games with units that cost fewer points to field so you need more models overall. That's often muddied in the water when folks say I used to buy 10 tac marines for $25/box and compare it with the $33/box (or so) they cost now.

The average game size is still around 1500-2000 from what I've been playing, but general points values have decreased, for example - most necron armies that were 1500-2000 now weigh in at 700-800pts, and if you look in the eldar codex, everything is VERY pricey points wise, and will drop considerably with the next codex.

Steelmage99 wrote:

SuperCow wrote:I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

This is the third time this general message have been presented in this thread.


While I am no GW apologist AT ALL, it is unfair to hint at that the release of Finecast was the cause of a price hike.
There was an planned annual price increase that GW was stupid enough to let coincide with the release of Finecast making a lot of people think that the models (made from a cheaper material) was sold at a higher price due to the very change mof material.

It really wasn't. It was simply GWs usual inability to market their product well, and their general disregard of their customers intelligence.

I didnt say that the general price hike was because of finecast, and it's probably not why most think that either. I think the thing that most people are complaining about (becausee I know it's what I am) that when taking the metal model (supposedly more expensive) and replacing that exact model with a (supposedly cheaper) resin version, that model costs £5 more.

Even with everything elses price rise, you then get... Archons / Haems - £8 to £10.50, Avatar of Khaine, The Deciever, The Night Bringer - £15-18 up to £22-23.
This is a specific price increase to Finecast models, not a happens to coincide when they're were hiking it across the board anyway.

Ovion wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:Another point to consider is the points value of games. When I was playing 40k around 2001, standard games were around 1500 pts. Those values have gone up from what I've seen (I think 1750 was a standard army a couple of years back) AND many model/unit fielding points have gone down. The result is often larger points totals for games with units that cost fewer points to field so you need more models overall. That's often muddied in the water when folks say I used to buy 10 tac marines for $25/box and compare it with the $33/box (or so) they cost now.

The average game size is still around 1500-2000 from what I've been playing, but general points values have decreased, for example - most necron armies that were 1500-2000 now weigh in at 700-800pts, and if you look in the eldar codex, everything is VERY pricey points wise, and will drop considerably with the next codex.

Steelmage99 wrote:

SuperCow wrote:I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

This is the third time this general message have been presented in this thread.


While I am no GW apologist AT ALL, it is unfair to hint at that the release of Finecast was the cause of a price hike.
There was an planned annual price increase that GW was stupid enough to let coincide with the release of Finecast making a lot of people think that the models (made from a cheaper material) was sold at a higher price due to the very change mof material.

It really wasn't. It was simply GWs usual inability to market their product well, and their general disregard of their customers intelligence.

I didnt say that the general price hike was because of finecast, and it's probably not why most think that either. I think the thing that most people are complaining about (becausee I know it's what I am) that when taking the metal model (supposedly more expensive) and replacing that exact model with a (supposedly cheaper) resin version, that model costs £5 more.

So you are saying that the price hike was not due to Finecast, but it actually was?!?

My point was that the planned increase in price would have happened whether or not Finecast had been released.

Even with everything elses price rise, you then get... Archons / Haems - £8 to £10.50, Avatar of Khaine, The Deciever, The Night Bringer - £15-18 up to £22-23.
This is a specific price increase to Finecast models, not a happens to coincide when they're were hiking it across the board anyway.

If I am understanding you point here, you are saying that the models mentioned got a proportionally higher price hike than the general price hike warranted. And that that "increased" price hike was solely due to "We can squeeze a bit more profit from the suckers" on GWs behalf?

Note that I don't disagree with the statement that GW was very likely thinking just that given their past history.

I am only complaining about the general "GW simply raised prices on models of a cheaper material because they are greedy" when there is more to it than that.

I'm saying there was a general price rise.

Then, entirely seperately, each time a Metal is replaced with Finecast, it costs significantly more. This isn't a single thing, it's been with EVERY metal to FC replacement, even in the last month or so when the C'tan shifted over.

GW generally seems to want to avoid eating profit loss of any kind, any increase in their cost, be it tax rising, inflation, new material and they seem to pass it on to the customer which ultimately ends up pricing their userbase out of the market.

I agree with you that GW seems to use every excuse to raise their prices.

This does mean that every model that gets converted to Finecast suffers a raise in price, even on top of the general increase it, and every other model/box, suffered during the annual increase earlier in the year.

That is certainly annoying, but not the thing I am complaining about, as I am sure you see.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I get that there was a planned price hike but it seems like poor form to have it general knowledge that a product is going to cost less to produce but still cost more for the consumer to buy. Makes GW appear greedy. I fear that this sort of behavior will continue to push new potential players away..when a 150 point figure costs as much as a new video game...most people are going to pick the video game. /rant over.

SuperCow wrote:I get that there was a planned price hike but it seems like poor form to have it general knowledge that a product is going to cost less to produce but still cost more for the consumer to buy. Makes GW appear greedy. I fear that this sort of behavior will continue to push new potential players away..when a 150 point figure costs as much as a new video game...most people are going to pick the video game. /rant over.

LOL!!!

You obviously do not know GW as well as some of us do.


They pull the excuse out any chance they get, give a halfwit apology, and then stick it to the player ecvcen harder, all the while ignoring the fact that your seeing people leave the game each time they pull it.

It's as predictable now as it ever has been.

Worglock wrote:Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

Point of note: You're going to repeat yourself on Dakka more than I will in 2012. Guaranteed.

Worglock wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I'll take that wager...what should be deal be? Whomever buys more GamesWorkshop PLC merchandise (including FW and BL, ebay purchaces and secondhand models) shall be flogged at dawn,leave dakka forever or how about has to admit that GW isn't perfect and that Finecast is not 'Fine'? Hell I'll even spot you a hundred american dollars....

I also call bull on the long term players putting up with the price rises. According to GW most people don't play any GW system for more then 18 months. They soon bore of it and GW's mission statment is to wallet rape those people for every dime in the mean time. I know thats what it was like when I was there. Ignore the long timers get those kids hooked on intro games, sell starter box to parent. String the kid along until he gets fed up with GW then fine another little timmy to hook into the GW plactic crack 'Hobby'.

Don't worry locky, I like ya, this place wouldn't be half as interesting without yourself and Kan around. =o] Merry Ho Ho Dakka.

adameast wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

adameast wrote:Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation.

'Practically the same design'? It's an updated kit. It's going to look similar.

Not defending the inflation here, but that statement is just stupid.

Stupid is a bit harsh don't you think?

Its basically the same as plug and play space marines these days (which are of a good quality in all fairness).

If I was a 'nid player and I was offered the option of 12 Genestealers for £5 in that vein, I'd bite their hand off.

So, yes, it is inflation. Its the same model, same base design (old one - http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmIPGJDGHhYAMNy8x790NbYuV1T2r0O1pLb1T_c3Iwg02z7uYThKYaytwW new one - http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/e/ec/Tyranid_Genestealers.jpg).

Stupid would be "I used to get an old Rhino for £10 and the new ones are £20.50 now". They're massively different quality of model.

Would you pay £31.14 for 8 genestealers? £35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts! How about a Land Raider for £71.35. The Space Marine Battleforce is £116.76. It is £107.03 for AOBR. £227.04 for the Space Marine Battleforce. £35.68 for a codex. £24 for an average Captain/Chapter Master. £46.70 for Space Marine Techmarine with Servitors. £48 for a Dreadnought. £48 for a Terminator Squad. Tactical Squad squad for £40.22. £53.84 for a Predator. £44.76 for a bike squad. £46.70 for Space Marine Vanguard Veteran Squad. These are Australian prices, this is not inflation, if you had to pay this much in Australia you would bite a Red Shirt's head off. I would like the price you are paying.

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

Scott-S6 wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

The problem is, GW should not be charging different ammounts per location. They are treating us like Colonial Days. Canada, Brazil, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan etc. is paying far more than we should. I doubt my income is doubled yours, I get pay £245.20 per fornight only. Also, your GDP argument is invalid, Australia is rank 10 in the ranking of GDP is the world, Canada is ranked 13, New Zealand is ranked 33 yet they have to pay more than the UK which is ranked 21, Japan is ranked 24 yet they are paying more. Brazil should be getting it cheap using your logic but they are ranked 76. It has nothing to do with GDP and it has to do with GW taking advatange of Australia and other non-US, UK or European Nations.

A few prices I remember:

Kroot Hounds 2005 price £4 2011 price £8.70 (same Blister as 2005)

Space Marine Tactical Squad 2005 price £18 2011 price £23 (same box)

Assault Squad 2005 price £15 2011 price £20.50 (again, same box)

The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

Castiel wrote:
The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

The justification is, as ever, that some people continue to pay the prices...

filbert wrote:

Castiel wrote:
The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

The justification is, as ever, that some people continue to pay the prices...

I suppose so!

Castiel wrote:A few prices I remember:

Kroot Hounds 2005 price £4 2011 price £8.70 (same Blister as 2005)

Space Marine Tactical Squad 2005 price £18 2011 price £23 (same box)

Assault Squad 2005 price £15 2011 price £20.50 (again, same box)

The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

It is because they are losing profits so they increase the prices so they make up for the loses.

While I don't condone GW prices, I think it's important that people actually use facts in these discussions:

Price rises are inacted every single June. At no other time in the year is there a price rise (such as March as stated earlier). (Tax increase is an obvious exception- the prices rose the same as they lowered when the VAT was lowered the year before).
The entire range does not have a price increase in June- only some lines. Normally the same line won't receive a price increase 2 years in a row and often has 4 years between rises.
Of course, a price rise in conjunction with a model count lowering (IG, Orcs..) gives a greater increase in price and will happen outside of the yearly price rise.

rockerbikie wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

The problem is, GW should not be charging different ammounts per location. They are treating us like Colonial Days. Canada, Brazil, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan etc. is paying far more than we should. I doubt my income is doubled yours, I get pay £245.20 per fornight only. Also, your GDP argument is invalid, Australia is rank 10 in the ranking of GDP is the world, Canada is ranked 13, New Zealand is ranked 33 yet they have to pay more than the UK which is ranked 21, Japan is ranked 24 yet they are paying more. Brazil should be getting it cheap using your logic but they are ranked 76. It has nothing to do with GDP and it has to do with GW taking advatange of Australia and other non-US, UK or European Nations.

Well I live about 20 miles away from the Games Workshop factory. Obviously it costs more to ship them around the world than to drive up the motorway.
And it's not like we're not being shafted.

Joey wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

The problem is, GW should not be charging different ammounts per location. They are treating us like Colonial Days. Canada, Brazil, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan etc. is paying far more than we should. I doubt my income is doubled yours, I get pay £245.20 per fornight only. Also, your GDP argument is invalid, Australia is rank 10 in the ranking of GDP is the world, Canada is ranked 13, New Zealand is ranked 33 yet they have to pay more than the UK which is ranked 21, Japan is ranked 24 yet they are paying more. Brazil should be getting it cheap using your logic but they are ranked 76. It has nothing to do with GDP and it has to do with GW taking advatange of Australia and other non-US, UK or European Nations.

Well I live about 20 miles away from the Games Workshop factory. Obviously it costs more to ship them around the world than to drive up the motorway.
And it's not like we're not being shafted.

It costs like £5 to be shipped, not £20. They ship it in Huge Bulks so I doubt it will costs that much more. It is just an excuse to charge more to non-European and non-US people.

The thing to remember with aus/nz is most imports cost a lot more than their country of origin.

I lived in New Zealand for 4 years so I know that first hand.

I mean, tech and games are ridiculously priced (NZ$100-120 (£60-80) for a new release game ffs). It's because they're shipping a relatively small amount of product a very long way, for it to get there in under 3-6 months it needs to be flown, and then on top of that theres import fees and then the tax top it off with markup so retailers can stay in business and the end result is a lot of businesses and the end consumer is shafted.

I mean, it was often actually cheaper for my shop owner friend to buy yugioh, mtg and warhammer product individually from a US retailer than through trade routes.

You need to buy such bulk over there to get even close to reasonable prices, combine that with all the big stores (pac'n'save, k mart, the warehouse, warehouse stationary, new world, etc) are all owned by the same 2-3 trading groups so there's bugger all in the way of competitive pricing going on making it even worse.

I don't like to brag, but I've made the switch to Flames of war and can get a 1500 point force for around £30
So, yeah, put that in your pipe GW

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I don't like to brag, but I've made the switch to Flames of war and can get a 1500 point force for around £30
So, yeah, put that in your pipe GW

As long as you are not buying battlefront minatures....-shuters at their prices-


I have also made the switch to historicals over the last year, and my only complaint is that I didn't do it sooner. =oÞ~~~ Force on Force is better then FOW [/joking] Actually I can't say that in all honesty because i've never played FOW WWII just isn't my thing. Now Vietnam... there's a fun place with lots of interesting toys

I'm buying from Plastic Soldier Compnay.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I'm buying from Plastic Soldier Compnay.

Smart man =o]

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Worglock wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I'll take that wager...what should be deal be? Whomever buys more GamesWorkshop PLC merchandise (including FW and BL, ebay purchaces and secondhand models) shall be flogged at dawn,leave dakka forever or how about has to admit that GW isn't perfect and that Finecast is not 'Fine'? Hell I'll even spot you a hundred american dollars....

I also call bull on the long term players putting up with the price rises. According to GW most people don't play any GW system for more then 18 months. They soon bore of it and GW's mission statment is to wallet rape those people for every dime in the mean time. I know thats what it was like when I was there. Ignore the long timers get those kids hooked on intro games, sell starter box to parent. String the kid along until he gets fed up with GW then fine another little timmy to hook into the GW plactic crack 'Hobby'.

Don't worry locky, I like ya, this place wouldn't be half as interesting without yourself and Kan around. =o] Merry Ho Ho Dakka.

The prices are tough to swallow. I like this hobby and 40k, but I am a teenager with little money at any one given time. It makes me really have to think about which kit to buy in terms of value. It's taken me about 3 years to collect 2000 points of Marines, and my Eldar force could take even longer.

Oh, and where did you find that stat for the time spent playing a GW system? Just curious.

filbert wrote:
The justification is, as ever, that some people continue to pay the prices...

Well, except they don't.

GW publishes their annual and semi-annual revenue in their corporate filings.

Latest: 121.6m
The year previous: 123.5m

If this years prices are on average 8% higher than the previous year, that means that they sold around 9% less product. Either the same amount of people are buying less or less people are buying or some combination of the two (the most likely).

I've worked both as a corporate and private practice accountant. The first thing an account will tell you when your profit is nearing a loss is that you could probably do a small price increase and you won't lose too many customers. The problem is that GW finds themselves in this situation year in, year out. They keep looking at the equation "revenue = price x units sold" and thinking that if they increase their price, their revenue will go up!

Is 8% accurate? Or have the prices gone up more like 10%? Also remember, that this compounds every year. So if they drive away 9-10% of their sales every year with price increases, in 6 or 7 years, they'll have cut their customer base in half! They've been doing it for almost 10 years now. And at the same time, they've been dropping customers who were into Lord of the Rings.

They don't raise prices every year because people will keep paying. They raise prices every year because they feel they have to in order to support falling revenue. Which then *causes* falling revenue, so they raise prices again.

If you take a look at GW's revenue numbers, if the same number of people were buying the same amount as 6 years ago, they'd be making twice the money at current prices.

What I've found locally is that there is a critical mass in a gaming community. That if the amount of people that show up for gaming days, tournaments, leagues, post on message boards organizing local games, etc., drops low enough, the community for that game sort of dies off and ceases to be vibrant. I'm guessing that it's not simply a matter of everyone's local GW gaming community losing half its players, but some losing none, others losing 80%, others losing 30% and so on, to average out, around the world with GW have half the customers they did just 6 years ago.

But if they lowered their price to where they're turning a decent profit, low enough to please customers, would they be better off?

I have to post in this to harp about the most beloved of Tyranids....the Lictor.

In 2nd edition this critter came out, originally priced at about £12. By the end of 2nd edition he was sitting at a healthy £15 price tag.
His 3rd edition descendant....cost £8!
His 4th edition descendant...cost £8 originally, hopped to £10, hopped to £12.50 and with Finecast went to £15.50!

Sometimes I don't know what GW's pricing model is apart from possibly on some sort of drug.

DoctorZombie wrote:But if they lowered their price to where they're turning a decent profit, low enough to please customers, would they be better off?

The issue would be how good are they are then going out and obtaining new customers or grabbing back old customers? If they lower their prices and get their message out and engage with gamers, they'll likely be better off. If they just lower their prices, and keep on business as usual, probably not.

Again, it must be remember that this is the same firm that borrowed money to pay dividends, so...

DoctorZombie wrote:But if they lowered their price to where they're turning a decent profit, low enough to please customers, would they be better off?

I think that without revisiting the entire process that made them into the international company and taking a hard look at product design from the ground up, that reducing their prices wouldn't help them much at this point.

The damage to the customer base has been done. They've already more than cut it in half over the last ten years. I don't think dropping prices now would do much more than scuttle their revenue even further.

They need to look at the customer experience and revisit it from initial contact on through collecting an army and playing their games. Right now they have the idea of the game so they can sell some miniatures but then they expect more than half (Jervis said two thirds) of their customers to never actually play their game and then expect their average customer to quit the hobby within two years of their first purchase. Given that, it makes sense to jack up the price of the starter sets to get the most money possible out of the average customer who will never, ever reach a full 1500-2000 point game.

My guess is that they are going to continue raising their prices 8-10% a year for the foreseeable future and concentrate on getting the most money out of people before they quit.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I pay less for some things now than when I started back in '98 or so. It's mostly down to having joined the EU and getting a stronger currency, but there have also been noticeable price drops for some models when they went form metal to plastic. Never mind the quality increase and loads of extra bits.

Absolutely true. Tyranid warriors, for example, are a hundred times better than the old metal ones. Some people's currency shifts have led them to pay a more fair price, while others get gouged like Australia & Canada.

DoctorZombie wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Worglock wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I'll take that wager...what should be deal be? Whomever buys more GamesWorkshop PLC merchandise (including FW and BL, ebay purchaces and secondhand models) shall be flogged at dawn,leave dakka forever or how about has to admit that GW isn't perfect and that Finecast is not 'Fine'? Hell I'll even spot you a hundred american dollars....

I also call bull on the long term players putting up with the price rises. According to GW most people don't play any GW system for more then 18 months. They soon bore of it and GW's mission statment is to wallet rape those people for every dime in the mean time. I know thats what it was like when I was there. Ignore the long timers get those kids hooked on intro games, sell starter box to parent. String the kid along until he gets fed up with GW then fine another little timmy to hook into the GW plactic crack 'Hobby'.

Don't worry locky, I like ya, this place wouldn't be half as interesting without yourself and Kan around. =o] Merry Ho Ho Dakka.

The prices are tough to swallow. I like this hobby and 40k, but I am a teenager with little money at any one given time. It makes me really have to think about which kit to buy in terms of value. It's taken me about 3 years to collect 2000 points of Marines, and my Eldar force could take even longer.

Oh, and where did you find that stat for the time spent playing a GW system? Just curious.

It's what I was told by my manager during my first day 'indoctronation'.

I personally believe the two biggest GW mistakes where, Axing Specialist Games, and 'The annual GW PLC (C,tm) price adjustment". From what has been said on the subject the bean counters decided that they where not turning enough of a profit on the SG to keep them in the stores. Then after they where web only they stagnaited until the community took over and have made them into a classic. While they might not of been 'big sellers' what they did was keep people in house. When you get bored of 40k,Fantasy or LotR (and you well it happens to all of us maybe burnedout is a better term) you look for something different. Epic armageddon, BFG, Mordenhiem, Blood Bowl all these are very different games to the main line big three. They have different pricing structures, model counts, they range from skirmish sized to huge armies in epic. But they did one critical thing they kept people in house. You didn't have to go to a different company to find something different. What seems to hapen now is the pricing structure convinces some people that they don't get percieved value in GW's products. So they go looking for a different gaming experience. I might not of said that well but im shure you get the point.

As for pricing, when I was young ( yeah yeah I know...) most sets where within pocket money range. I could go down there with $20-30 dollars and walk away with alot of different stuff. In canada the prices are just so high that most parents dont send there kids out with $50-100 bucks spending money. If they could of kept the pricing down to what a average teenager would have in his pocket on Saturday afternoon I don't think they would have this precieved anamosity towards them. GW is still turning a profit at the moment, but they seem to be loosing customers and making up the shortfall in price rises.

I do have one question for you though, will GW's prices ever reatch a point where you will choose not to buy there stuff anymore? When it enough ,enough? I believe alot of GW's customers have reached that point where they said to themselves "They what how much for that?!?" Funny story about that, I was at a FLGS (Imperial hobbies in richmond, they have a huge %50 off boxing week sale going on out there, great store if you are in the lowermainland I would suggest you check it out, they have WAYYYY more then GW stuff almost anything you can think of) and my friend said look at the price of this. Cannius Wolfborn for $58 dollars (and in Finecast to boot) I actually started to laugh and the lady behind the till saw what I was looking at and asked me " yeah we have been having alot of problems with finecast. We have people bringing them back 3 or 4 times. I'm not impressed with the stuff." So just another circumstancial story from some random guy on the internet.

mortetvie wrote:Please note I have been talking about the plastics, not finecast. I have no experience with finecast and am not too enthused on investing in any finecast models anytime soon.

Finecast is still one of the biggest jokes GW has ever played. Oh well. *sigh*

What really gets me is the HOBBY tools GW has. So overpriced, not better quality at all. The brushes are junk. I just tell everyone to go to a hobby store. You are getting the same quality *better usually* for a fraction of the price.

Example. Went to a comic book store selling GW basing grass/rocks/sand etc. Then went to a hobby store and got multiple bags for basing for around 10 bucks. In contrast to a tiny plastic amount of material for 8 bucks. If I got the same amount of material from GW I would have spent around 40, probably more.

Units go up and up, always. That is just part of the situation. Until people no longer buy the product.

Prices in Australia have gone up between 10-15% in the last 3-4 years. I know it is still relatively cheap in Sweden, about half the price of the product you buy downunder.

When I started this hobby in 1999, a box of 19 soldiers was $25. A few years later that went to $30 with the excuse that the raise was to offset the money lost on metals. A year later metal model prices were raised. A few years later, that price went to $35 with the exact same excuse as before, to offset losses on metal models. The next year...

After the second round of this I moved to only buying from independent retailers or 3rd party sales like bartertown and ebay. Luckily I found a supplier who gives me 30% off so I'm still paying about what I paid back in 1999 for a box regiment. Granted that money starts to go up as GW repackages their boxes with fewer models at a higher dollar per model.


Back in 1999, a plastic model cost $1.32-$1.56 total for most boxes. Now the current retail price per model for CORE units is $2.90 per model(Orc Boys). Keep in mind that 10 years ago less money bought you more models($25 for 19 versus todays $29 for 10).

I've gone out of my way to make sure that I give GW as little money as possible while still enjoying their game. And that is my relationship with them. Love the game, despise the company.

So I urge you all, if you MUST buy GW products, do it the smart way, get your 30% off or buy second hand(you can still get NiB secondhand models all the time on ebay and bartertown).

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:[ I do have one question for you though, will GW's prices ever reatch a point where you will choose not to buy there stuff anymore?

I've been buying through 3rd party, second hand and counts-as (i.e boxes of plague monks for wracks) to make my army as cheap as possible. So already basically.

XCom wrote:What really gets me is the HOBBY tools GW has.

I'll give 2 exceptions to this. The side cutters aren't too much over the price of others I've found locally (50p to a pound more) and I find the shape they have more comfortable than others, and the pinning drill. It's a .3 to 3mm hand drill that comes with 6 1mm drill bits. It's actually cheaper and better than hobbyshop ones I found, as while an individual drill was half the price, you need 2 (a .3 to 1.5mm and a 1.3 to 3mm) hand drills, then buy the pack of bits on top.

The rest isnt worth it at the money though.

Actually, seafreight shipping is a lot faster and cheaper than you think (used to deal with seafreight a lot).

The cost of shipping and tax does not account for the difference at all.

However, when you take into account that cost of property (especially retail property), wages, etc are much higher you start to see where the cost difference comes from.

Except it doesn't. The prices are higher in Brazil, South Africa, New Zealand, Japan and so on... and not all those countries are making 'double' what the US/UK makes in wages.

Prices can be consistent the world over. Just look at Lego.

Aerethan wrote:When I started this hobby in 1999, a box of 19 soldiers was $25. A few years later that went to $30 with the excuse that the raise was to offset the money lost on metals. A year later metal model prices were raised. A few years later, that price went to $35 with the exact same excuse as before, to offset losses on metal models. The next year...

After the second round of this I moved to only buying from independent retailers or 3rd party sales like bartertown and ebay. Luckily I found a supplier who gives me 30% off so I'm still paying about what I paid back in 1999 for a box regiment. Granted that money starts to go up as GW repackages their boxes with fewer models at a higher dollar per model.


Back in 1999, a plastic model cost $1.32-$1.56 total for most boxes. Now the current retail price per model for CORE units is $2.90 per model(Orc Boys). Keep in mind that 10 years ago less money bought you more models($25 for 19 versus todays $29 for 10).

I've gone out of my way to make sure that I give GW as little money as possible while still enjoying their game. And that is my relationship with them. Love the game, despise the company.

PM me and tell me the link of the people that get you like 30% off. I still think a local friends store has about the same discount. Either way the prices are killing me for my nids! Plus aside from ebay where would you recommend getting Metal models? I hate finecast, so much.

So I urge you all, if you MUST buy GW products, do it the smart way, get your 30% off or buy second hand(you can still get NiB secondhand models all the time on ebay and bartertown).

PM me and tell me the link of the people that get you like 30% off. I still think a local friends store has about the same discount. Either way the prices are killing me for my nids! Plus aside from ebay where would you recommend getting Metal models? I hate finecast, so much.

Hi all.
Can I do an overview of the last 30 odd years of GW ?

Mid 1980s GW sold a wide range of products , Citadel and Marauder minatures, for RPGs and some table top games they produced ,some they just stocked in store.

At this time thier products were sold at competative prices , as they were competing with other LFGS.

Thier customer base was mainly late teens and early twenties.(Students and or friends/relations of students.)
The focus was on entertaining games with strong narrative coupled with good quality minatures.

By the early 1990s GW had consolidated its stock to GW /citadel products only in thier stores.
Warhammer 40k and EPIC were the 'big three.'And a wide range of '3D RPG games' (from Dark Future to Blood Bowl.)

GW also realised that younger siblings of gamers were a valuable resource , and thay teamed up with MB games to recruit 8 yeatr olds and over with the exelent 'Space Crusade and Hero Quest.'

With a wide range of games with strong narrative supported with a range of good quality (for the time ) minatures .GW had acess to a wider spectrum of gamers/collectors and DOUBLED thier turn over every 3 years from 1988 to 1997.

By the late 1990s, the accountants realised that the more minatures that were needed in a game the better sales of minatures would be...
Taking this SINGLE truth out of the mix of important truths that grows a customer base of a hobby company.
And using it in isolation has simply desimated the customer base GW built up over the previous decade.

Without the 'gate way games' GW looses out on a large amount of potential customers.
Without the 'specialist games ', GW looses vet players to other systems and companies.
Without the interaction with the older more experianced gamers positive word of mouth turns into negative word of mouth.

When Mr Kirby stated GW plc were in the buisness of selling toy soldiers to children.
The products were available at pocket money prices .
Having wriiten the 40k rules with such a heavy stragegic focus ESPECIALY for children, since 1998.(Simple game play and over complicated rules.)
Most older gamers find the rules a bit un rewarding to play.(No more than a' beer and pizza' type game.)
But thats ok as long as GW plc still price thier products at pocket money level.....


Catachan box of 20 was £12.(60p each!)Pocket money price.
A box of 5 marines (combat squad) was £6(£1.20 each)

Infaltion in the same time period was 42%(UK gov figures.)
So they should be £17.04 for twenty Catachan and £8.52 for 5 marines.

What are the actual prices now?
Ill go have alook see...back in a mo.
I KID YOU NOT!

£36 for 20 Catachans and £15.50 for 4 marines.

So that means you are now paying about twice as much as you were for the SAME minatures taking inflation into account.

I know some people (thier parents) can still afford GW prices .
But gaming is a social hobby , if the active gamers drops below a certain amount the group simply switches to the next most popular game.
And as the distribution of weath is not even , the higher the prices go the greater the reduction in affordability.
Remember only 5% of the population of Britain earn over 50k a year.

So every shift in 'earning band' excludes an ever larger proportion of the population.
GW plc will have to up prices even higher to cope with this phenomenom.

I am sure some people can afford to pay £250 for a box of 10 Space marines .And they can justify spending this much on thier hobby.
And this is absolutly fine.
But how many are able to do this , and will it be enough for GW plc to survive?

The studio staff and store staff generally do a great job and are decent people to deal with.
However the corperate greed and blinkered decision making is destroying GW IMO.

I heard a theory once that these price increases are to eventually make LGSs to stop carrying GW products by making the people shopping at an LGS pay more, adn then GW lowers their direct price to make buying direct look better.

I think GWs prices are a pain but I see a few problems with many of the analysises here. While you can say a $10 kit should only be $19 today due to inflation... there are three problems with the assumptions. First that GWs original valuation was correct. Next people have asserted that that GW should only be expected to trend there prices following the average inflation, but many of the petroleum, metal, and paper products GW uses have inflated above the rate of inflation. Next there is a false parallel being drawn; simply because a kit was called a Rhino then and another called a Rhino now doesn't make them immediately interchangeable. You maybe comparing an apple to an apple but one of those apples kinda shriveled and old; the two are not equal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DoctorZombie wrote:I heard a theory once that these price increases are to eventually make LGSs to stop carrying GW products by making the people shopping at an LGS pay more, adn then GW lowers their direct price to make buying direct look better.

That's funny. Basic economic principle would actually dictate once they've eliminated market competition while assuming no major loss to consumer base that's when they should raise prices, due to the consumers now single source dependency.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Except it doesn't. The prices are higher in Brazil, South Africa, New Zealand, Japan and so on... and not all those countries are making 'double' what the US/UK makes in wages.

Prices can be consistent the world over. Just look at Lego.

QFT

If lego can make there products cost the same ((or really close to the same) price ALL the way around the world, why can't GW?

yes, yes I suppose laziness is stopping them...

The facts of the matter are simple as far as GW pricing goes -

1. They have raised their prices wildly far in excess of what inflation would dictate for the past several years. Some of this is explainable in terms of cost of raw materials and other commodities going up, some of it is not explainable (at least in satisfactory terms to most of us lol) i.e finecast - Cheaper material, lower quality assurance, higher prices.

2. They also have wildly disparate pricing structures for various international zones, which they seem to be in no rush to correct, as a matter of fact, they implemented business practices trying to block 3rd party distributors from shipping outside their 'area' in order to make sure customers pay their local going rate. This is debatably 100% their decision and right... but an example that really irks me personally is that they will charge an australian double for a BL digital download compared to the US, when they are both downloading the same content from the same server... there are no additional charges or in my mind excuses for this. That is just straight up greed IMO.

And that is pretty much the top and bottom of it really... the only thing to debate is how you feel about it, but the facts of what they have done, and comparing them to 'normal' business practice is pretty self explanatory when the details are examined.

DoctorZombie wrote:I heard a theory once that these price increases are to eventually make LGSs to stop carrying GW products by making the people shopping at an LGS pay more, adn then GW lowers their direct price to make buying direct look better.

While that may increase *very* short term profits, it'd effectively kill them as LGS's are where most people play and where kiddies without credit cards to go buy stuff.

If GW edges out LGS's anymore than they currently do, I'll be switching game systems completely. It's bad enough that they open GW stores literally down the street from already established LGS's.

Aerethan wrote:If GW edges out LGS's anymore than they currently do, I'll be switching game systems completely. It's bad enough that they open GW stores literally down the street from already established LGS's.

What's weird is that they often open stores in backcountry areas with a sparse population and leave huge metro areas completely untouched. They've got them in small towns in tennessee, north carolina, colorado, and a lot of stores in a couple big cities (LA especially) but *nothing* in many states or other large cities. San Diego for instance has ~3 million people in the metro area (half the population of tennessee by itself). There's 5 stores that carry GW stuff IIRC, and only 2 within main population bounds that really have play space and consistent gatherings and carry full product lines, and no actual GW stores.


The way they decide where to open locations doesn't seem to make any sense. They'll open them near existing LGS's and drive them out basically to cash in on a small increase in revenues on an already existing playerbase, and leave huge areas and population centers with little or no presence at all.

Yeah my local GW store in Mission Viejo is the only one in southern California south of Irvine which I thought was weird. That store is literaly down the street from an LGS(granted that has no gaming space) that has been here for 15+ years.

there are no non GW store where I live that sells their products, or any wargaming stuff as far as I know...

I buy alot of my stuff off EBay from US/UK
way ceaper, even WITH the postage!

frozenwastes wrote:
Well, except they don't.

Comparing revenue to profit is a slightly skewed view. If you look at those same reports you will see that they have listed nearly 50 mil in profit over the last four years, and have not actually posted a losing quarter since 2007. Their last losing quarter was followed by a 7 mil profit quarter imediately afterwords. They do not have a sales issue, nor a revenue issue or a profit issue. They have a public relations issue, given the rather public finecast price increase. Oddly enough the reasoning for the finecast price increase is attributed to costs for casting, though increases were unilateral. They raised codex prices based on finecast profit/loss algorithms...really?

I don't buy it. No pun intended.

filbert wrote:I seem to remember a big discussion about it after the Finecast price hike. Killkrazy made a spreadsheet calculating what how prices would be if they followed inflation and what they are actually, if you have the patience and the aptitude to work the Dakka search engine to find the relevant thread.

Patience, yes.

Aptitude, no.

Link?

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Worglock wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I'll take that wager...what should be deal be? Whomever buys more GamesWorkshop PLC merchandise (including FW and BL, ebay purchaces and secondhand models) shall be flogged at dawn,leave dakka forever or how about has to admit that GW isn't perfect and that Finecast is not 'Fine'? Hell I'll even spot you a hundred american dollars....

You're on.

I'm probably buying a new car by March, so that means all of my extra budget will go into that so I can have it paid off in a year. So if I buy anything, it'll be battlefoam trays for some of my 17 armies that I already have.


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Haeslich wrote:

frozenwastes wrote:
Well, except they don't.

Comparing revenue to profit is a slightly skewed view. If you look at those same reports you will see that they have listed nearly 50 mil in profit over the last four years, and have not actually posted a losing quarter since 2007. Their last losing quarter was followed by a 7 mil profit quarter imediately afterwords. They do not have a sales issue, nor a revenue issue or a profit issue. They have a public relations issue, given the rather public finecast price increase. Oddly enough the reasoning for the finecast price increase is attributed to costs for casting, though increases were unilateral. They raised codex prices based on finecast profit/loss algorithms...really?

I don't buy it. No pun intended.

Exactly. They've been posting profits. What the howlers are going on about is that sales numbers have been down. Technically, the retail division is struggling (shocker, I mean , why would a niche hobby segment of a niche hobby be struggling in a retail market that's positively murderous? Must be evil Games Workshop) The company as a whole is still healthy and they've been making money off of the IP (in the form of video game licensing etc.)

Lorizael wrote:While I don't condone GW prices, I think it's important that people actually use facts in these discussions:

Price rises are inacted every single June. At no other time in the year is there a price rise (such as March as stated earlier). (Tax increase is an obvious exception- the prices rose the same as they lowered when the VAT was lowered the year before).
The entire range does not have a price increase in June- only some lines. Normally the same line won't receive a price increase 2 years in a row and often has 4 years between rises.

True, people like to make a big deal when cost of some single miniature rises 25%, and then nerd rage "GW PRICES RISE 25% EVERY YEAR!!!111". But when you average it out over the entire range, most of which see only very small increase or none at all, then the increase is not all that big. Also, some models have become signifantly cheaper when changing from metal to plastic (most notably Ork Killa Kans, whichs price was cut by over a half).

Also, it is folly to assume that a single industry could not have price increase pressure higher than average inflation rate (CPI is pretty much a crock these days anyway, artifically weighted to be low so politicians look good). Not saying that it is really the case with GW, but there is no reason to assume they should "follow" the inflation. I know many hobbies where cost of equipment has risen signifantly higher than the inflation rate over the last 20 or 30 years.

If one wants to file a real complaint over GW's current pricing policy, one should look at the Battleforces and other boxed sets, which have seen very steep increases in last 2-3 years.

Hi folks.
May I remind posters the title of the thread is 'how have GW prices changed?'

I assumed this warented a comparison of the current prices to previous prices with 'the cost of living rises' eg inflation taken into account .

You can argue that GW has horendouly high overheads due to incompetant managment ,or I (and many others,) have NOT hade a pay rise in line with inflation for the last decade!
Or a mix of lots of other factors we could argue over.

I simply used the rate of inflation as a base line to allow a reasonable comparison to be made.

I used the IG Catachan minis as they ARE the SAME models that were 60p each on release, and are now £1.80 each.
And I assumed the Space Marine Tactical Boxed set was identical too.

The basic fact is as GW plc increase prices over the rate of inflation year on year.It prices more and more people out of the GW hobby.
A decade ago the prices to collect a 'full army' were aproximatley HALF of what it costs now , in real terms.
(Due to lower model count and higher model PV coupled with price rises over inflation.)

If the SAME amount of customers were buying the same amount of product as they were a decade ago.GW plc would have a turn over in exess of of £230 M this year.Not just £121M.

And as GW have to raise prices at an exponetial rate to cover the exponential loss of customers ,(due to raising the prices.)
The £250 for a box of 10 tactical marines is closer than you think.....

GW tend to raise prices too high

this is why i mostly play warmachine

warmachine full army £100 including rulebook

warhammer 40K full 2000p army £250 including rulebook

Basically speaking, prices have tripled over the course of the last decade.

GW are still making healthy profit, and therefore will continue to raise prices. There is a price rise planned within the next few months, according to rumours.

Don't like it, start voting with your wallet.

Haeslich wrote:
Comparing revenue to profit is a slightly skewed view.

I never once compared revenue to profit. Since I never talked about expenses or costs of goods sold, I couldn't have mentioned profit.

Profit is meaningless when you're trying to get a handle on unit sales and numbers of customers. This is basic accounting.

Units sold x price = revenue
revenue - expenses = profit

There is simply no reason to use either expenses or profits in any calculation to figure out year over year changes in units sold if you know the revenue.

Basic algebra FTW.


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Worglock wrote:
Exactly. They've been posting profits. What the howlers are going on about is that sales numbers have been down. Technically, the retail division is struggling (shocker, I mean , why would a niche hobby segment of a niche hobby be struggling in a retail market that's positively murderous? Must be evil Games Workshop) The company as a whole is still healthy and they've been making money off of the IP (in the form of video game licensing etc.)

If I have 100 customers and make $10000 and the year after that I have 90 customers and make $9900 dollars and then 80 customers and then $9500 dollars and then 70 and down to $8000 and then 60 and down to $7000 and then 50 and down to $6500, my business is healthy? Just because I'm managed to cut costs enough to keep from losing money every year?

GW has been on a steady decline since the end of the LOTR boom. They've had to lay off workers, close stores and even close entire divisions like GW Canada (!). They are doing whatever they need to do to avoid losing money. But the idea that this makes them robust or healthy is just ludicrous. If you went to an investment banker and asked them for money and told them your unit sales are down by 10% a year for the last 5 years, he'd laugh you out of his office unless you came in with a very serious "help us turn this around" approach.

GW used to have a virtual monopoly on fantasy and sci-fi miniature wargaming. Any competition swiftly failed. A lot has changed over the last 10 years. GW gave up half their market because they confused a virtual monopoly with a real one and started doing monopolistic price increases. Unfortunately for them, if you do monopolistic price increases and don't have an actual monopoly your unit sales drop.

In half in less than a decade.

Here's a little exercise that might help you understand where GW is going wrong:

If making a plastic kit costs you $100,000 in development costs, tooling, design work, etc., and costs you $5 a kit to produce each boxed product, are you better off going for volume or going for high prices and lower sales numbers?

GW is geared towards mass production on their manufacturing end but then price and market for lower volume and higher price on the retail end. It's a total disconnect.

Unfortunately for them, they can't just switch gears. Lowering prices and going for volume doesn't work when you've lose half your customer base over the last decade. Their retail and marketing side of the business just isn't capable of moving the product and getting the customers in.

GW better keep developing their video game licensing to make them more money because their core business is stagnating after a major decline. Maybe the Hobbit will turn things around for them a bit, but will it be a repeat of the money coming in during the LOTR movie boom? Probably not.

frozenwastes wrote:
GW is geared towards mass production on their manufacturing end but then price and market for lower volume and higher price on the retail end. It's a total disconnect.

I 100% agree with this. If they priced their mass produced minis accordingly then yes, they would be walking towards a brighter sustained future. As it stands only lateral events such as Hobbit movie, videogames etc will save GW core biz... I wonder for how long.

Look at azhag the slaughterer. He is worth ( I think) $150 AU. Are they serious? For one model?

$151AU

DoctorZombie wrote:

I am a younger gamer and was wondering how the GW prices have gone up in relation to inflation?

LoTR : All of these are the same models with no changes...based on 2004/2005 prices

Box of Uruk-hai - '04/'05 was $20...2011 $33
Box of Minus Tirth Warriors - was $20...now $33
Warg riders were $20...now $25.5
Box of Minus Tirth Knights was $20...now $25.5
Metal blisters were $9 for 3 'human' sized models...now $15

You be the judge whether the rise is inflation...

Norn King wrote:Look at azhag the slaughterer. He is worth ( I think) $150 AU. Are they serious? For one model?

Well, one gigantic model. Plastic models the same size only go for $50au less.

Blood Knights, there's something ridiculous. $165au for 5 cavalry models.

Or Archaon. $83au for one cavalry model.

Sheck2 wrote:

DoctorZombie wrote:

I am a younger gamer and was wondering how the GW prices have gone up in relation to inflation?

LoTR : All of these are the same models with no changes...based on 2004/2005 prices

Box of Uruk-hai - '04/'05 was $20...2011 $33
Box of Minus Tirth Warriors - was $20...now $33
Warg riders were $20...now $25.5
Box of Minus Tirth Knights was $20...now $25.5
Metal blisters were $9 for 3 'human' sized models...now $15

You be the judge whether the rise is inflation...

Don't forget the boxed set of Ringwraiths, going from like 50 something to $85.25 Canadian. Wow. I also just found a old WD behind my book shelf (we are moving so packing stuff sucks although I have found lots of little treasures in my quest to clean)

Boss Zagstruck Jan 2009 $23.00- Jan 2012 $30.00 (all prices canadian)
Ork Battle Wagon Jan 2009 $55.00- Jan 2012 $79.25 (WTF!!! )
Ork Nobz Jan 2009 $30- Jan 2012 $30.00
Ork Kaptin Badrukk Jan 2009 $25.00- Jan 2012 $26.50
Ork boyz Jan 2009 $30.00- Jan 2012 $34.75
Ork boss Snikrot 09 $16- 2012 $19.25

Most of them are reasionably priced, Zaggy blew me away but then again he's in Finecase so that explains it better then I ever could. Same with the battle wagon $24.50 over three years? Wow, just wow. Thats a 45% price rise in three years.

Damn the GW website depresses me. I guess until people start voting with their wallets, the 'Annual GW PLC(C,tm) price adjustment' will continue on with no end in sight. One question that I asked and didn't get a answer for was to the people who still buy GW stuff " What will be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Will you pay £100 pounds for 10 Tactical Marines? Is one more 'price adjustment' one to many? I am just genuinely curious as to what it would take for some people to go "They want how much for X ! Feth that I am done."

They're also the only LotR models I have considered purchasing.

At $124 (up from $90 iirc) they are going to stay considered at best...

One question that I asked and didn't get a answer for was to the people who still buy GW stuff " What will be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Will you pay £100 pounds for 10 Tactical Marines? Is one more 'price adjustment' one to many? I am just genuinely curious as to what it would take for some people to go "They want how much for X ! Feth that I am done."

Well, the last price hike was too much for me to buy new BUT I did start a second hand ork army that lead me to buy some wagons from my flgs. I was tired of playing marines so I waffled. I'm also really interested in seeing what this WHFB Vampire Counts update seems like as I got a bunch of 'other' models to stand in for my undead. So it's too much to buy new but if a good deal 2nd hand happens (or if another friend pails and passes me the buck) I may see what's going on.

*edited for grammar

Hi all.
GW got comparitivley too expencive for me about 4 years ago.
I am sure lots of people are so fond of 40k/WH they will continue to spend what they can on them.(Eg they will spend the same amout each year , but just get less for thier money.)

However, gaming is a social hobby, and what is popular gets the gaming group.

If you cant get a game of 40k/ WH at your games club because everyone else has been priced out, you have the chioce to switch to the new popular game or play only in a GW store.
Many will simply switch to the new most popular game.

A decade a go nearly every one came to non historical table top minature gameing through GW .(85 to 90 %)
Now there are a much wider spectrum of companies games new player start on.(GW has lost over 40% of its customer base!)

GW plc is shedding customers at an ever increasing rate.With the rise in popularity of other games/companies products, the 'tipping point' may be closer that some people think...

So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

Teh_K42 wrote:So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

May I ask you why do you prefer not to use ebay? I'm not in Aus but in Japan, we pay similar if not more exorbitant prices. Since wayland and other official discount stores have stopped shipping to Japan, I've found a few rather reputable ebay-based stores that sell at the same discount and are fully willing to ship out to JP/Aus.

These stores are practically and functionally the same as wayland or any other online store, but they just use the ebay/paypal framework as a shopfront.

Let's just say that GW have never LOWERED prices.

Any company I use as a vendor has an annual price increase. Normally around 2-3% per year. My prices go up to my customers every year for what they pay in labor. It is a part of being a business. I don't understand why everyone expects no type of increases to occur?


I must admit it is probably the cheapest hobby I have by far so maybe that skews my view slightly.

Sycak wrote:Any company I use as a vendor has an annual price increase. Normally around 2-3% per year. My prices go up to my customers every year for what they pay in labor. It is a part of being a business. I don't understand why everyone expects no type of increases to occur?


I must admit it is probably the cheapest hobby I have by far so maybe that skews my view slightly.

Considering that we've had single price increases that have hit the 25% range (even higher?), I'd hardly call our reactions unreasonable.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Let's just say that GW have never LOWERED prices.

Except for Lictors.

Kouzuki wrote:

Teh_K42 wrote:So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

May I ask you why do you prefer not to use ebay? I'm not in Aus but in Japan, we pay similar if not more exorbitant prices. Since wayland and other official discount stores have stopped shipping to Japan, I've found a few rather reputable ebay-based stores that sell at the same discount and are fully willing to ship out to JP/Aus.

These stores are practically and functionally the same as wayland or any other online store, but they just use the ebay/paypal framework as a shopfront.

I probably should have clarified, eBay stores would be fine. It is trawling through second hand items from random sellers I don't like. That and I'm not terribly familiar with eBay.

If you know good eBay stores I would be glad if you told me

Does GW let American discounters sell to the Southern Hemishphere?

Teh_K42 wrote:So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

You could give Dicebucket a try. It's a US store, so the embargo doesn't affect them, they sell at discounted US prices, which is good for us since our dollar is nearly the same, and they have a shopping cart system. You save about 60-70% sometimes off Australian prices.

However, they only sell plastic kits. Basically, what they do is take the kits, rip them out of the box, and repack all of the stuff you ordered into one big box. This gets around US online stores not allowed to have a cart system, because the stuff is technically not new. Shipping is $25us for the first $100us spent, then goes up $10-$15us every $100us after that.