That is not true,most of the time Eldrad dies to Mephiston.
Sometimes Mephiston will die to Eldrad, but not as much.
Brother Coa wrote:Who can beat Mephiston in 1 on 1 combat, fluff wise?
Eldrad is an ancient Farseer of many, many more years of experience and most likely is far more powerful than Mephiston can ever hope to be in terms of psychic potential. When Mephiston can sacrifice himself to take out a Blackstone Fortress' heart single-handedly and still remain in the material world enough to keep several spirit stones alive, we can talk.
oh wait you said fluffwise so when you think about it.
nearly all of the chaos heroes can take out mephiston abaddon, kharn , huron can match him easily, all the other primarchs as well.
loyalist wise probably will give mephiston a run for his money and crowe since he is the brotherhood champion of the purifiers.
Any of the Daemon Primarchs could take him, as could Abbadon.
I would think Ghazghkull, though I confess that I don't have much to back that up except Ghazghkull beating the piss out of Belial, and Belial is on a somewhat lower level than Mephiston. Still, the biggest and baddest Ork Warlord in the galaxy is likely to be quite simply terrifying in close combat, and what he lacks in experience compared to Mephiston he makes up in size and strength.
Any given named Necron character. They've been around for basically eternity, and possess technology light-years beyond anything he's ever heard of or seen.
Eldrad. Any Space Marine who tried to take on Eldrad would suffer rapid-onset Exploding Head Syndrome.
DeathReaper wrote:Mephiston is the only one to EVER fall to the black rage and keep his wits about him.
No one else has ever done this, and unti Mephiston did it, it was thought to be Impossible.
His will is stronger than Eldrad;s, and almost as strong as the emperor's will.
Eldrad cannot suffer the Black Rage, so how can you use it to say he's weaker than Mephiston? A mortal mind conquered something other mortal minds though impossible, whereas Eldrad predicted the future, held entire races in the palm of his hand as he directed them from the background, led Ulthwé into direct conflict against a direct Chaos attack on the world of Haran, where Ulthwé faced legions of Chaos Marines as well as limitless amounts of Daemons to prevent them gaining access to the webway (which probably saved a great many more lives of other races, including Mankind), and went toe-to-toe with a corrupted Blackstone heart of almost pure warp energy that would've obliterated the minds of the vast majority of Pyskers, even Eldar psykers, in an instant.
I am surprised nobody mentioned Maugan Ra... I am also surprised on list of characters who could beat them in fight, a men who beat Daemon to death and carve his way trough entire Tyranid strike force while tearing apart Carnifex with his bare hands ( ordinary hands, not power fist ) is surely not an easy opponent.
As Mephiston heaved aside the massive boulders from his makeshift tomb, the sound of scraping stone drew the attention of a band of Orks still roaming the ruins. Coming upon the stricken Astartes, the Orks thought Mephiston appeared to be easy prey, as he was weaponless and his armour was in ruins. They soon came to rue their decision to attack the "helpless" Space Marine. Outmatched by Mephiston's speed, five Orks died within seconds as the Astartes rained down powerful blows upon them that pulverised flesh and shattered bone. Too stupid to realise that they were outmatched, the Orks pressed the attack. But the reborn Blood Angel continued to fight the brutal Orks until Mephiston punched a large hole clear through the chest of the largest Ork and ripped out his heart.
And that is why Eldrad would not kill Meph. He would do the same to Eldrad whilst shouting KALI-MAH!
Mephiston can kill some Orks so Eldrad can't win? Since when was it going to be about pure body strength? Where is the guarantee that Mephiston's head won't have blown up before he can even think about killing Eldrad?
You're throwing bits of background around that don't mean anything and claiming they mean Eldrad can't win, yet it's clear that Mephiston is clearly the weaker being psychically, and that's all that matters; you can't punch a hole through someone whilst you're trying to stop your head from exploding and dodging lightning coming from someone who can see the future and adjust his attacks accordingly.
Unless there's background that states that Mephiston can match the power, intellect and skill of one of the Galaxy's oldest, most powerful psykers from the galaxy's most powerful race of psykers, then nothing else can do will matter.
It's awfully hard to throttle someone to death when you're missing limbs and being attacked by psychic lightning.
Mephiston's character description pretty much says that he killed an entire mob of boyz without armor or weapons. Which is not that awesome, as in fluff about every tyranid monstrous creature does that for lunch, breakfast and dinner. Even Straken killed a Warboss bare-handed, and he is a puny imperial guardsman.
Mephiston is the only one to EVER fall to the black rage and keep his wits about him.
No one else has ever done this, and until Mephiston did it, it was thought to be Impossible.
His will is stronger than Eldrad's, and almost as strong as the emperor's will.
Um... Lemartes?
Fluffwise... anything could destroy Mephiston.
Abaddon or his Planet Killer, Greater Daemons, Chaos gods, Typhus or any chosen of the gods, Eldrad or any of the Pheonix Lords, Avatar of Khaine....
The list is endless. Fluff is a stupid way to judge. By fluff logic (or Mat Wards...) Mephiston would destroy himself because he isn't an Ultramarine and according to the fluff ALL MARINES WANT BE ULTRA!!!!
Brother Coa wrote:Let me then ease it for you - Eldrad is dead so he can't even fight him. Not unless he gain a new body...
I don't believe you placed the requirement that suggestions must currently be alive, you just asked who/what could take on Mephiston in the fluff.
I just say that for you 2 to stop arguing. We all know that Eldar are better psykers then Humans ( except the Emperor himself ) and Eldrad is not exception.
I truly believe that Eldrad would defeat Mephiston in psychic duel, but that Mephiston would tear him apart on cc duel.
And the fact that Eldrad died in the fluff while Mephiston is still alive put him in favor over Eldrad.
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Deadshot wrote:I didn't want to be the first to say it...Draigo.
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smudgethekat wrote:I'd say Chaplain Grimaldus has a fair shot. Man can literally survive a cathedral falling on his head and crawl out purely because he wants to.
And what part of: " no Imperials against Mephiston." you didn't understand.
He is loyal servant of the Emperor, why would he fight Imperials at all?
Only Xenos and Chaos included and...
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DeffDred wrote:
Abaddon or his Planet Killer, Greater Daemons, Chaos gods, Typhus or any chosen of the gods, Eldrad or any of the Pheonix Lords, Avatar of Khaine....
...we all know that he would have little chance against Chaos God ( he is not Draigo ) or against a SPACE SHIP who can DESTROY A PLANET.
Others are beaten in fluff by heroes equal or weaker then him ( Mephiston alone beat Grater Daemon M'Kar to death, Calgar beat Avatar in duel... )
The fact that Horus has died in the fluff while Commisar Gaunt is still alive puts him in favor over Horus.
... Do you actually go over your posts after typing them and assess the logic that you're using? Because in this instance it is horrible.
Eldrad being dead has absolutely zero bearing on how a fight between him and Mephiston, or any character, would go.
Gaunt is not on the same level as Horus while Mephiston and Eldrad are.
You should read carefully before making 3'rd nonsense statement.
And what about this logic: if Eldrad is dead how will he fight Mephiston?
How does being dead have any effect on their fighting capacity while alive? As far as fluff known to me goes, all Mephiston ever did was punching a bunch of boyz dead. When compared to say, Old One Eye, who plowed it's way through entire companies of guardsmen and tanks, seems a little weak.
Jidmah wrote: all Mephiston ever did was punching a bunch of boyz dead.
Read: "The Hives of Hollonan", he carved his way trough entire Tyranid brood and killed their Tyrant and all his guard. Before that he held the doors of cathedral for 6 hours and tear apart Carnifex with his bare hands ( no power fist, just hands like your and mine ). He was stopped when Trygon hit him from the back and bury hi under the pile of rubble.
Now find me someone who can go alone trough entire Tyranid brood force and came out alive.
Jidmah wrote: all Mephiston ever did was punching a bunch of boyz dead.
Read: "The Hives of Hollonan", he carved his way trough entire Tyranid brood and killed their Tyrant and all his guard. Before that he held the doors of cathedral for 6 hours and tear apart Carnifex with his bare hands ( no power fist, just hands like your and mine ). He was stopped when Trygon hit him from the back and bury hi under the pile of rubble.
Now find me someone who can go alone trough entire Tyranid brood force and came out alive.
Fluff-wise it would be Kharn the Betrayer. He comes close to mephiston in physical strenght and bears the blessing of Khorne, which renders any psychic powers useless.
Brother Coa. Marneus Galgar held back a whole friggin Ork Waagh for a day and a night alone. Kaldor Draigo messed up the whole realm of chaos, again all by his own. The space marine fluff is littered with OP stuff like that, so standing up against a whole tyranids brood force doesnt seem so special anymore.
Oh, and Eldrad would beat Mephiston IMHO. He knows your every move...
TheAngrySquig wrote:Wait what? I must have read that really wrong then, let me look again
"Calgar was laid low, his body rent and torn, his last strength expanded in mortal combat against the Swarmlord"
The only reason Calgar even survived, is Ultramarines started throwing themselves on the Swarmlord's swords long enough for Calgar to flee in a Thunderhawk.
Calgar was beaten by the Swarmlord... The Swarmlord not only beat him in combat, but outwitted him tactically as well.
Indeed.
Only Calgar's Honour Guard stalled the beast long enough for his mortally wounded body to be whisked away from the battle.
Iranna
I have never heard of any other hero of the Imperium who has faced a Swarmlord and lived to tell the tale. The Swarmlord is like the whole Hive Mind compressed into a single being. Its strong, intelligent and immortal. Id like to see Mephiston battle against one.
The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:
I have never heard of any other hero of the Imperium who has faced a Swarmlord and lived to tell the tale. The Swarmlord is like the whole Hive Mind compressed into a single being. Its strong, intelligent and immortal. Id like to see Mephiston battle against one.
The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:
I have never heard of any other hero of the Imperium who has faced a Swarmlord and lived to tell the tale. The Swarmlord is like the whole Hive Mind compressed into a single being. Its strong, intelligent and immortal. Id like to see Mephiston battle against one.
Swarmlord didn't meet Draigo - yet
Thats why Mat Ward should quit writing new codices for marines
Movac wrote:The Swarm Lord in game and in fluff. Vect would kill him in game.
Are you sure? I just ran it, and with Vect Causing 1.75 unsaved wounds to the Swarmlord, going first, but then getting killed in their first round, assuming the Swarmlord has given himself Preferred enemy. The Main cause of this is, the Swarmlord causes an Average of 4 wounds to Vect, in which he has to reroll all successful invulnerable saves, amounting to making 8 saves. He should fail one of those, and then suffers ID. Perhaps someone else can check the math on this for me.
Movac wrote:The Swarm Lord in game and in fluff. Vect would kill him in game.
Are you sure? I just ran it, and with Vect Causing 1.75 unsaved wounds to the Swarmlord, going first, but then getting killed in their first round, assuming the Swarmlord has given himself Preferred enemy. The Main cause of this is, the Swarmlord causes an Average of 4 wounds to Vect, in which he has to reroll all successful invulnerable saves, amounting to making 8 saves. He should fail one of those, and then suffers ID. Perhaps someone else can check the math on this for me.
I didn't mean those two fighting each other, I meant either of them fighting Mephiston.
That is about 515 orks, all with weapons and armor and guns.
Since when? I'd love to know what orifice you pulled that number from
Guns ARE weapons- bit redundant there, and orks don't really wear anything that can be considered armour, as a whole..
It could as easily be 4 orks with guitars, on the way to a concert
In Game- My SAG Bigmek with PK turned him into a glove pupper, but that's not mathematically likely to re-occur.
A fussilade from Grot blastas can finish him off, let along anything bigger. Any decent sized shooting unit can put him down hard, as can all those groovy DE poisoned weapons I've seen him go down to a lone wych before.
Fluffwise- Too many to list, but any Greater Daemon has a decent chance either way, as they have power weapons, high strength, immunity to instakills and invulnerable saves in game.
Lelith Hesperax could take him, Urien certainly could (as fluffwise he has a blade that kills yo from the slightest scratch, thoug he doesn't have it in game), Vect would drop a burning imperial battleship on him just to see if he could get out from under it, then put him down like a rabid dog with splinterfire from his followers. (
Ghazzy can, and frequently does, own him hard.
He's honestly not that great, despite the fanwank about him (in game). In fluff he's a tad more uber, but also well on his way to daemonhood ;0)
Let's be real here, Mephiston kinda sucks. I used to think he was good when we had a guy at the shop running him as an IC, then we found out he was not an IC.
TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.
Well if we do not count in the Primarchs, then I would like to know which heroes do you mean?
Saint Celestine or any other Living Saint probably could. They are monstrously powerful.
Not even close.
Yes.
See, I can do opinion too. Considering how the Living Saints are more or less incarnations of the Emperor's Power, I'd say they could do it. Then again, I'm breaking the rules for the challenge: they're Imperials too.
TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.
Well if we do not count in the Primarchs, then I would like to know which heroes do you mean?
Saint Celestine or any other Living Saint probably could. They are monstrously powerful.
Not even close.
Yes.
See, I can do opinion too. Considering how the Living Saints are more or less incarnations of the Emperor's Power, I'd say they could do it. Then again, I'm breaking the rules for the challenge: they're Imperials too.
When Saint Celestine starts causing the Extinction of entire civilizations and races, we'll talk.
TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.
I personally think Huron Blacheart has a pretty good chance. Also, what about Logan Grimnar.
Gameplay wise, the Swarmlord kills Huron, after causing a single Wound. Depending on who Charges with Logan, decides if Logan lasts 1 or 2 rounds of combat. Fluffwise, between Logan and the Swarmlord can be a bit tougher.
TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.
Well if we do not count in the Primarchs, then I would like to know which heroes do you mean?
Saint Celestine or any other Living Saint probably could. They are monstrously powerful.
Not even close.
Yes.
See, I can do opinion too. Considering how the Living Saints are more or less incarnations of the Emperor's Power, I'd say they could do it. Then again, I'm breaking the rules for the challenge: they're Imperials too.
When Saint Celestine starts causing the Extinction of entire civilizations and races, we'll talk.
I think you'll find that that's the Tyranids as a whole, not the Swarmlord. Otherwise one could argue that a Living Saint is an incarnation of the Emperor in the same way that the Swarmlord is an incarnation of the Hive Mind, which means that Saint Celestine has, de facto, already caused the extinction of entire civilizations and races.
I think you'll find that that's the Tyranids as a whole, not the Swarmlord. Otherwise one could argue that a Living Saint is an incarnation of the Emperor in the same way that the Swarmlord is an incarnation of the Hive Mind, which means that Saint Celestine has, de facto, already caused the extinction of entire civilizations and races.
The Swarmlord is quoted as being "The Greatest Tyranid threat to the Galaxy" It goes on to say that It "Was responsible for the scouring of the Megyre system,the destruction of the Brynarr race and the consumption of Waaaagh! Gorgluk." The Swarmlord is the direct cause of all that, either by it's far superior tactics, or it's insane skill in combat. There hasn't been anything in the fluff so far, that has bested the Swarmlord in combat
Saint Celestine is a nothing more than a cockroach compared to the Deeds and combat prowess of the Swarmlord.
TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.
I personally think Huron Blacheart has a pretty good chance. Also, what about Logan Grimnar.
Gameplay wise, the Swarmlord kills Huron, after causing a single Wound. Depending on who Charges with Logan, decides if Logan lasts 1 or 2 rounds of combat. Fluffwise, between Logan and the Swarmlord can be a bit tougher.
Fluff wise, I think Huron has it. A Silver Skull Captain could only cause a single gash on Huron's face in Close Combat.
Jidmah wrote: all Mephiston ever did was punching a bunch of boyz dead.
Read: "The Hives of Hollonan", he carved his way trough entire Tyranid brood and killed their Tyrant and all his guard. Before that he held the doors of cathedral for 6 hours and tear apart Carnifex with his bare hands ( no power fist, just hands like your and mine ). He was stopped when Trygon hit him from the back and bury hi under the pile of rubble.
Now find me someone who can go alone trough entire Tyranid brood force and came out alive.
Rubbles again? This is getting ridiculous.
I'll bring forth that anybody can beat mephiston if the fight in a rock quarry, just toss a bunch of rubble at him and he'll be stuck there for a few months...
The big problem I (and a lot of people as well) have with Mephiston is that his fluff is one thing (Pretty bad ass marine) and his statline is another (omg wtf!). Because of that, fluffwise he'd lose to a lot of people that he would totally own 'stats wise'.
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Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Reading this thread opened my eyes on how mary sue Eldrad is
(I dont know any eldar fluff, so I may be wrong with this whole thing)
If he was so great why didnt he forsee his death and do something to avert it?
From my understanding he knew he would die, but went with the course of action anyway, has choosing a course of action that would let him live ended rather badly for the rest of the Eldars/Universe. Just like Paul Muad'dib in the second Dune Book... or heck, Jesus, who knew he'd end up on that cross and didn't run for Mexico...
This make him a martyr... and doesn't really make him any less of a Mary Sue really.
But I figure that c'tan shards probably could still own Mephiston depending on how 'big' a shard it is.
And I'm going to assume that the outsider is now a collection of random shards massing together into a new C'tan. So the outsider as well would utterly destroy Mephiston.
Anyway mephiston isn't that uber without plot armor as there is a tremendous amount of characters that would sweep the floor with him.
No one has mentioned this yet but technically fluff wise, Lucius the Eternal could triumph over Mephiston under the basis that anyone who defeats him, becomes him. Despite Mephiston’s ability to overcome the Black Rage, I doubt he’d be able to resist mutating into Lucius.
A band of orks is not the same as a warband of orks. In addition, a warband can contain any number of orks, as even said in that article. So an entire warband could still be less than 40, as seen in IA:8 with Buzzgob's Dread mob.
Mephiston's fluff also said he killed a total of 18 orks(five+ a dozen + the leader) before they ran off, hardly a feat.
candy.man wrote:No one has mentioned this yet but technically fluff wise, Lucius the Eternal could triumph over Mephiston under the basis that anyone who defeats him, becomes him. Despite Mephiston’s ability to overcome the Black Rage, I doubt he’d be able to resist mutating into Lucius.
A strong argument. There are two things though that nobody has factored in:
The first is that Mephiston might be possessed by a greater daemon. It's hard to say how this would affect Lucius' prospects at possessing him, unless Lucius could kick the daemon out. This has a similar effect on the comparison of Mephiston and Eldrad's realative psychic power. Eldrad is an immortal, ancient psycher, Mephiston is mortal. Except that Mephiston might actualy also be an immortal, ancient psycher - or at least possessed by one.
The second is that Mephiston is a Blood Angel. Anyone messing with him has to answer to his Necron home boys.
Any Greater Daemon could easily wipe the floor with him. So could Skulltaker as well probably. Ghrazskul would wipe him out by sheer Orkiness (better than Nuclear weapons, Orkiness)
Vect
Swarmlord or the Doom of Malantai.
Tuska da Daemon Killa
Abbaddon
Kharn the Betrayer under the basis that Mephiston powers won't work (fluff wise).
Prince Yriel of the Eldar owns mephiston. He wounds easily and mephy gets no armor saves. His only weakness is his toughness. But he'll attack before mephy and last more than one round. that's enough to kill him. And he has also killed a Tyranid leader beast.
I think pretty most of the special characters could woop Mephiston in fluff and game.
Abaddon, Ghaz, Swarmlord, Greater Daemons and probably kharn would certainly roll him over without so much as a sweat in game and most in fluff too. It's nice to speculate but Mephiston is hardly a 40k character that strikes me as a big bad... now if you wanted to ask me into this debate over Abaddon, Dante, Calagar, the swarmlord, a bloodthirster or a primarch for example i'd happily have a more indepth discussion.
EDIT: How can anyone even suggest Eldrad and Mephiston are on par with Horus? HORUS? The guy that mortally wounded the emperor.. a guy who's strong enough to supposedly hold the chaos gods at bay. What moron would actually think that!? They're not on par with Ahriman or Abaddon... let alone a primarch or the emperor. pft...
Semper wrote:I think pretty most of the special characters could woop Mephiston in fluff and game.
Abaddon, Ghaz, Swarmlord, Greater Daemons and probably kharn would certainly roll him over without so much as a sweat in game and most in fluff too. It's nice to speculate but Mephiston is hardly a 40k character that strikes me as a big bad... now if you wanted to ask me into this debate over Abaddon, Dante, Calagar, the swarmlord, a bloodthirster or a primarch for example i'd happily have a more indepth discussion.
EDIT: How can anyone even suggest Eldrad and Mephiston are on par with Horus? HORUS? The guy that mortally wounded the emperor.. a guy who's strong enough to supposedly hold the chaos gods at bay. What moron would actually think that!? They're not on par with Ahriman or Abaddon... let alone a primarch or the emperor. pft...
To be fair, Eldrad might actually be on par with Ahriman. It was, after all, Eldrad who created the Third War for Armageddon. He was the most powerful known psyker of a race which is renowned for it's powerful psykers.
Agreed on the Horus part though, that's just hubris.
Cannibal wrote:
The first is that Mephiston might be possessed by a greater daemon. It's hard to say how this would affect Lucius' prospects at possessing him, unless Lucius could kick the daemon out. This has a similar effect on the comparison of Mephiston and Eldrad's realative psychic power. Eldrad is an immortal, ancient psycher, Mephiston is mortal. Except that Mephiston might actualy also be an immortal, ancient psycher - or at least possessed by one.
Speculation has no place in a thread like this. There's not much suggesting that Mephiston is posessed by anything.
EDIT: How can anyone even suggest Eldrad and Mephiston are on par with Horus? HORUS? The guy that mortally wounded the emperor.. a guy who's strong enough to supposedly hold the chaos gods at bay. What moron would actually think that!? They're not on par with Ahriman or Abaddon... let alone a primarch or the emperor. pft...
Did you just call someone a moron for being uninformed about fictional characters?
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Cannibal wrote:
The first is that Mephiston might be possessed by a greater daemon. It's hard to say how this would affect Lucius' prospects at possessing him, unless Lucius could kick the daemon out. This has a similar effect on the comparison of Mephiston and Eldrad's realative psychic power. Eldrad is an immortal, ancient psycher, Mephiston is mortal. Except that Mephiston might actualy also be an immortal, ancient psycher - or at least possessed by one.
Speculation has no place in a thread like this. There's not much suggesting that Mephiston is posessed by anything.
Respectfuly, this thread is nothing BUT speculation. As has been pointed out, some of these characters don't even exsist at the same time so they could never fight. This is a fun game of "what if", nothing more.
EDIT: How can anyone even suggest Eldrad and Mephiston are on par with Horus? HORUS? The guy that mortally wounded the emperor.. a guy who's strong enough to supposedly hold the chaos gods at bay. What moron would actually think that!? They're not on par with Ahriman or Abaddon... let alone a primarch or the emperor. pft...
Did you just call someone a moron for being uninformed about fictional characters?
.
Meant as a method of highlighting the obvious absurdity of saying a librarian is as strong as a Primarch, not an assault on their personal intelligence. They could be a theoretical physicist for all I know. Best not see poison where there is only colourful discussion.
Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Reading this thread opened my eyes on how mary sue Eldrad is
(I dont know any eldar fluff, so I may be wrong with this whole thing)
If he was so great why didnt he forsee his death and do something to avert it?
From my understanding he knew he would die, but went with the course of action anyway, has choosing a course of action that would let him live ended rather badly for the rest of the Eldars/Universe. Just like Paul Muad'dib in the second Dune Book... or heck, Jesus, who knew he'd end up on that cross and didn't run for Mexico...
This make him a martyr... and doesn't really make him any less of a Mary Sue really.
He is still alive - his consciousness flickering in the remaining waystones that he poured himself into.
In game, Monsterous Creatures dont have EW and Meph has a force weapon right? so all meph has to do is pass his test, cause a wound and the swarmlord or hive tyrant is gone.
Billagio wrote:In game, Monsterous Creatures dont have EW and Meph has a force weapon right? so all meph has to do is pass his test, cause a wound and the swarmlord or hive tyrant is gone.
Can be tough to pass Psychic tests on 3D6, especially when you don't have an Invulnerable save to protect from perils.
Cannibal wrote:
The first is that Mephiston might be possessed by a greater daemon. It's hard to say how this would affect Lucius' prospects at possessing him, unless Lucius could kick the daemon out. This has a similar effect on the comparison of Mephiston and Eldrad's realative psychic power. Eldrad is an immortal, ancient psycher, Mephiston is mortal. Except that Mephiston might actualy also be an immortal, ancient psycher - or at least possessed by one.
Speculation has no place in a thread like this. There's not much suggesting that Mephiston is posessed by anything.
Respectfuly, this thread is nothing BUT speculation. As has been pointed out, some of these characters don't even exsist at the same time so they could never fight. This is a fun game of "what if", nothing more.
Fine, let me rephrase myself: "Making up parts of a character's background so that he has a better chance at winning is counter-productive to the goal of this thread. There's not much suggesting that Mephiston is posessed by anything."
Cannibal wrote:
The first is that Mephiston might be possessed by a greater daemon. It's hard to say how this would affect Lucius' prospects at possessing him, unless Lucius could kick the daemon out. This has a similar effect on the comparison of Mephiston and Eldrad's realative psychic power. Eldrad is an immortal, ancient psycher, Mephiston is mortal. Except that Mephiston might actualy also be an immortal, ancient psycher - or at least possessed by one.
Speculation has no place in a thread like this. There's not much suggesting that Mephiston is posessed by anything.
Respectfuly, this thread is nothing BUT speculation. As has been pointed out, some of these characters don't even exsist at the same time so they could never fight. This is a fun game of "what if", nothing more.
Fine, let me rephrase myself: "Making up parts of a character's background so that he has a better chance at winning is counter-productive to the goal of this thread. There's not much suggesting that Mephiston is posessed by anything."
I hate Blood Angels because I used to play them when they where cool. I'm really not pulling for him here, I was just trying to contribute. Thanks for clarifying though.
Cannibal wrote:Respectfuly, this thread is nothing BUT speculation. As has been pointed out, some of these characters don't even exsist at the same time so they could never fight. This is a fun game of "what if", nothing more.
Not quite. Mephiston was saved once by an Eldar army interfering due to one of Eldrad's visions. Whether they saved Mephiston (once again burried by rubble) on purpose or by accident is only known by Eldrad.
Though, in the next codex Mephiston should have Preferred Enemy: Ruins in game.
whrextheimpaler wrote:I think Lelith could take him in both
Her WS is only 2 higher than his so only 2 bonus attacks and even though thats 6 attacks, shes S3 and hes T6 so not that great of a chance at wounding. She will ignore his armor though, so thats good and she can deffinitely hold him for a while in game. In fluff, she would wreck him easily, shes probably the best "mortal" fighter in the galaxy, most greater daemons could take her out
whrextheimpaler wrote:I think Lelith could take him in both
Her WS is only 2 higher than his so only 2 bonus attacks and even though thats 6 attacks, shes S3 and hes T6 so not that great of a chance at wounding. She will ignore his armor though, so thats good and she can deffinitely hold him for a while in game. In fluff, she would wreck him easily, shes probably the best "mortal" fighter in the galaxy, most greater daemons could take her out
If we do not count Astartes as mortal then she probably is. Otherwise I'd nominate Khârn for that title. The man's been run over by a Land Raider and lived, after all.
whrextheimpaler wrote:Kharne is a beast in everything but, i dont think he would cut it
I forgot his rules but doesnt he hurt himself if he misses or something to that extent?
No, he hurts his friends if he does. Doesn't matter if there aren't any friends around though... Oh, and if we're going statwise, assuming Khârn charges Lelith:
Lelith strikes first, with 7 attacks at WS9. She thus hits with 4.666... attacks. Of those 4.666..., 1.555... will wound. After Khârn's 5+ Invulnerable Save, One wound will have been lost.
Khârn then strikes with 6 attacks (yes, that's right, Khârn has 7 attacks on the charge!). Of these, 5 hit (hitting on 2's is everyday work for Khârn!). Of these 5, 4 will wound, which means that one of the wounds will slip through Lelith's invuln save and turn her brain into paste.
If Lelith charges, she wins because Khârn isn't S6 and thus doesn't instantly kill her.
Yet a five is less of a chance to roll then a 3 so, i believe we know who would win. However, we are not talking about Kharne vs Lelith, its Mephiston vs Every one lol. (except other marines)
whrextheimpaler wrote:Yet a five is less of a chance to roll then a 3 so, i believe we know who would win. However, we are not talking about Kharne vs Lelith, its Mephiston vs Every one lol. (except other marines)
The thing is that Lelith has to pass every save, whereas Khârn only needs to survive with 1 wound left. Lelith doesn't inflict ID, Khârn does (on a turn in which he charges her).
Back on topic: If it weren't for the "only non-imperial" clause, I'd imagine Grimaldus could make him commit suicide out of shame: HE crawled out from under a CATHEDRAL. Where's your ruin now, Mephiston?!
Excuse my ignorance but what did Ahriman do that makes him greater than Eldrad? As far as I can see, all he's done is lead Thousand Sons on Prospero, and manage to enter the Webway, capturing Inquisitor Czevak in the process, before being kicked out again. Whereas Eldrad pushed back a massive Chaos invasion using a force that mainly consisted of Eldar Guardians, caused the 2nd war of Armaggedon, which then lead to the 3rd, and took out a Blackstone Fortress (admittedly, dying in the process, although some of his spirit stones still show signs of life to some extent). Are Ahriman's achievements really greater than Eldrad's, or have I missed something?
Back on topic, I know an Avatar is generally something that people go around punching to prove how hard they are, but I reckon that an Avatar could take Mephiston.
whrextheimpaler wrote:Yet a five is less of a chance to roll then a 3 so, i believe we know who would win. However, we are not talking about Kharne vs Lelith, its Mephiston vs Every one lol. (except other marines)
The thing is that Lelith has to pass every save, whereas Khârn only needs to survive with 1 wound left. Lelith doesn't inflict ID, Khârn does (on a turn in which he charges her).
Back on topic: If it weren't for the "only non-imperial" clause, I'd imagine Grimaldus could make him commit suicide out of shame: HE crawled out from under a CATHEDRAL. Where's your ruin now, Mephiston?!
This. Also, Ghazza would just swat Mephiston in a fight hands down.
I can't believe I'm posting in a thread like this at 4:30 in the morning....
Anyhows...
Up until The Sanguinor came about (really, was he necessary?), Mephiston was traditionally the big Blood Angels bad***, incidents with Rubble non withstanding.
I was actually surprised at that story about the Swarmlord, I knew he was a big deal for Tyranids but.... Defeating Calgar so thoroughly, that's probably put him right at the top of the pile.
Possibly the toughest guy in the game, thinking about it. Except maybe Ghazza.
Going by the dudes I know of
Draigo (bad, bad writing)
Swarmlord ~= Ghazza
Mephiston
Drazhar
Living Saint
Lysander
Eldar Avatar ~= Calgar (Trying to be fair)
A Dreadnought
Phoenix Lords
Yarrick
Ragnar
Abaddon (He got chewed out by a Night Lords Apothecary, and deserved it and did not break his established character)
Belial
However, we are not talking about Kharne vs Lelith, its Mephiston vs Every one