So okay, I know GW should first works on the armies that were left in 4th edition to give them better codexes in 6th edition, but this is a thread just for fun. So, if you had to choose a faction in W40k that still don't have its OWN codex (they can already be a sub-faction present in the current codexes), just say it and give some ideas about it. So I'll start with saying that if I had to choose, it would be the Legion of the Damned. Now I know it might seems a bit cliché, but I remember when I first saw them (was when I was really younger, don't remember when), I was like : OMG! Try bringing me something more awesome! I DARE YOU! So here's some random ideas (note, I am not a GW designer so do not await for some incredible ideas) :

-All units have fearless.
-Most units have regular armor save, but also an invunerable save (+5)
-Instead of slow and purposeful, units have feel no pain (since a 6th edition rumour states it will be less efficient, I think it's not too much OP)
-At the start of the game, any non-vehicule unit on foot can start in reserve. At the first turn on the LotD player, half of the units (rounded-down) in reserve can deepstrike.
-Most of the units should have a high cost (like any other SM codex)

So, what are your ideas?

Well given what is left.... The Mechanicus, who wouldnt mind haveing a mechanicus driven codex.

Mechanicus or a proper Ordo Hereticus codex, instead of a White Dwarf one. Or Blood Pact Codex would be nice

I mean I've always wanted to see either an ultramarine codex or a buff to codex space marines to make them competitive with SW and BA.

I'd like some think some additional special rules like a space marine player can make one additional non-troop choice scoring (which I think fits with the fluff). And then something like all units receive +1 to bs when shooting at half range

I think the Elysian drop troopers deserve there own codex. I think they already have rules in IA, but they deserve a codex of themselves.

I've always thought that 'relentess' was one of the most underused rules in the game. An army based around that would be good...

Come to think of it, despite its name, it'd probably fit Eldar most... If Shurikan Catapults were basically 'relentless' bolters, it'd fit eldar like Guardians a whole lot more than Fleet....

Legion are already in space marine codex. Making them their own would only mean there are more MEQ codexes in the game and in the long run make non-marine players unhappy that half the codexes being updated are SPEHSS MAHREENS.

Better solution would be to bring back the 3rd edition(?) faction books; Craftworld eldar and whatever the chaos one was.

So using codex marines as an example; GW puts out 3 books in 6th; 6th edition Rulebook, 6th edition Space Marine codex, 6th edition Chapters of the Astartes.

Rather than giving us characters like in the current book, they give us traits like in 4th edition marines. Giving us rule changes that are mitigated by points changes, BUT not giving us a make your own chapter, as that was easily exploited in 4th.
Something like, Crimson Fists would have say prefered enemyrks and stubborn at 2 pts a model.
Fill the book with characters and traits for lots of chapters; done.

I'm happy that my marines are different, GW is happy making players buy another book and because every codex would be released with a supplement, the xenos- imperium books stay equal.

Not easily done because that means more writing, more balancing and higher entry into the hobby, but i think its an efficent way to make groups within codexes different without making everyone else upset that theirs wasn't chosen...

Deathwatch/Ordo Xenos.

I love these guys since I first read the rules for Deathwatch killteams. It always seemed funny to be that despite the fact that 75% of non-Imperial codex are alien that there is no dedicated anti-alien force but there is an anti-daemon force.

A Traitor Guard codex could be fun too, as well as a Adeptus Mechanicus Codex.

Raptor Cult- Bumming of C:CSM
All units in the codex move like jump infantry, but no dedicated transports may be taken.
All units have the USR Hit and Run
All units may take Defensive Grenades for __ points per unit
Aspiring champions may take double lighting claws for 25 points

New Unit: Raptor Cult Chosen, or something like that
5 WS, 4 BS, 4 S, 4 T, 6 I, 3 A, 2 W, 10 ld, 3+ 4++ Sv
Each model is equipped with a power weapon, bolt pistol, defensive grenades, frag Grenades, Ancient power armor (gives a 4++, due to being old, lol)
Champion for this unit gains a toughness and a strength
All models may elect to take a pair of lightning claws, or a plasma pistol
40 points each, 50 for the champion

A few that I'd like to see,

The Mechanicus codex, it would definately be a stranger codex, and really It's one that we'd all like to see.

I'm going to skip the obvious Chaos legions in place of the lost and the damned, They Really have their own style and deserve their chaotic codex

The Adeptus Mechanicus not having a codex is ridiculous. They're the second largest coherent faction in the entire setting, after the Imperium, and likely the most powerful militarily, seeing as how there are more Titans than there are Space Marines, and their basic infantry are basically non-power armored Space Marines with heavy weapons grafted onto them and get fielded in Guard-scale numbers...

For a properly new list, Adeptus Mechanicus, or, if they can dream up some decent background (i.e. better than that of the Tau or Necrons) then I guess the Hrud might be worth a go.

What would please a great many people would be a Storm of Magic-ish book of mixed/variant lists with just a few new units in each: Genestealer Cults ('Stealers+Guard), PDF (Handicapped Guard+Arbites+misc), Deathwatch (Inquisition+Marines), Chaos Cult (Chaos Marines+Guard+Daemons), etc.

Kroot!!!

The Mad Tanker wrote:A Traitor Guard codex could be fun too, as well as a Adeptus Mechanicus Codex.

Apparently, according to a fellow I know who has quite a few contacts & sources at GW HQ in Nottingham, there might be the possibility of a Renegades Codex, so Chaos could end up with three codices; CSM, Daemons & Renegades. I hope they do do that, as I would rather like having a Slaaneshi worshipping Renegade Guard force.

I will have to echo your Ordo Xenos as well - perhaps a general 'Inquisition' Codex, covering all three of the major Ordo's? Yes Codex: Grey Knights covers Malleus, but I still think one centred around the general forces the Inquisition calls upon would be good, rather than just their Chamber's Militant.

Hrud would be amusing, the entire army being poisoned... how evil, lol.

But I assume they'd have a fairly low iniative being blobs of corrosive slime and all... guess they'd have something similar to Necron's entropic strike as well but if it's going to be army wide I suggest that against vehicles that when rolling for hits, rolls of 6 lower the AV by one for each 6 and against infantry, wounds that are rolled on a 6 that are not saved eliminate the targets armor save.

A book chok full of xenos races and beasties to use in senarios and DIY settings, maybe with some allies rules for various racial team ups, put a bunch of cool conversion pics and get peoples creative juices flowing.

Or even better, an nice new spiffy VDR manual for fun games, I just would like some options for more varied play.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:A book chok full of xenos races and beasties to use in senarios and DIY settings, maybe with some allies rules for various racial team ups, put a bunch of cool conversion pics and get peoples creative juices flowing.

Or even better, an nice new spiffy VDR manual for fun games, I just would like some options for more varied play.

Are you talking about ambient species that would inhabit the battlefield, act randomly according to dice-rolls, etc..? That would be pretty cool, just alien monsters or scared civilians running around through the fight!

An Inquisitor one would be cool. It could be a "meta-codex" with troop choices from IG, SM and GK.
It'd be very charector-orientated and entirely awesome.

- Codex: Grots
- Codex: Mechanicus
- Codex: lost and damned
- Codex: Kroot mercenaries
- Codex: Vespid
- Codex: Squats
- Codex: Inquistion
- Codex: Ogryns

If one of those gets a codex, I'll die a happy gamer....

bombboy1252 wrote:- Codex: Grots
- Codex: Mechanicus
- Codex: lost and damned
- Codex: Kroot mercenaries
- Codex: Vespid
- Codex: Squats
- Codex: Inquistion
- Codex: Ogryns

If one of those gets a codex, I'll die a happy gamer....

Lost and Damned and Kroot sound good, I don't feel too strongly for the others, perhaps Mechanicus too. I see too many fluff problems with some of these, particularly Ogryns, Squats, and Vespids. All in all, not bad.

Codex: Administratum FTW

I would love a proper army of Arbites or Genestealer cults, or an expansion of just the two fighting it out.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:- Codex: Grots
- Codex: Mechanicus
- Codex: lost and damned
- Codex: Kroot mercenaries
- Codex: Vespid
- Codex: Squats
- Codex: Inquistion
- Codex: Ogryns

If one of those gets a codex, I'll die a happy gamer....

Lost and Damned and Kroot sound good, I don't feel too strongly for the others, perhaps Mechanicus too. I see too many fluff problems with some of these, particularly Ogryns, Squats, and Vespids. All in all, not bad.

I just said Ogryns because I just looked through the IG codex, but I would love a Vespid codex

I would love to see this break down for 6th:

-codex astartes chapters in 1 book
-non codex chapters in 1 book

-new ork codex(new codex means more models!)

-chaos daemons
-chaos space marines/legions
-chaos renegades

-codex inquisition

-codex mechanicus

The rest could remain the same or be updated.

-cgmckenzie

Everyone seems to be all "Oh I like this one unit in an army, it deserves its own Codex!" Rather than worrying about it being a coherent choice. What Joetaco said is so true... we don't need ANOTHER MEQ army...

Mechanicus sounds like it could be interesting, Genestealer Cult would be a really interesting thing brought back from 2nd edition though I feel like it'd probably end up being an IG copy with a few more melee choices and less Mech (obviously with a few twists, as they were in 2nd), and GW said they dropped Squats basically because they became a joke and they f-ed up all the fluff, so maybe if they re-introduced them as a viable choice that could be close (though they'd probably be a lot like a Terminator + Bike MEQ army ).

OR Maybe GW should release a MegaAwesomeEveryoneNeedsToBuyThis-dex that allows changes in the FOC but limits the unit choices and make it balanced for friendly games but not for regular tournaments. Stuff like:
Ulthwe Eldar would be able to have 4 HQ, 1 elite, 1 Fast attack, 2 Heavy Support choices choices, Guardians can have 2 heavy weapons (which might fire at BS4 because of targeters/practice?), but can only use Farseers, Warlocks, and Eldrad without jetbikes for the HQs. This would emulate how Ulthwe relied heavily upon Psykers and Guardians but limiting the Heavy Support and Aspect Warriors more than evenly cripples an army.

This would make a lot of interesting setups for races to choice different avenues, each "flavor" would only take up 2 pages at most, maybe introducing a new unit and would make EVERY player buy it, making the $$$ every company needs. I think I heard they did something similar in Apocalypse but clearly not to this degree.

Exodites!

Also doing the Super-Dex idea would justify a lot of the stuff people were talking about, such as Kroot Armies where Shapers are cheap HQ, Krootox Riders as Elite, Kroots as Troops, Kroot Hounds working as Beasts (or maybe even slip in Vespids via fluff BS) for Fast Attack, and Greater Gnarloc as Heavy Support.

Ork Speedcults, Chaos JumpiRaptor Army, GK henchmen armies without having to use Coteaz (Minor change, I know), 100% Tank Guard, Space Marines don't really need them because each of the Chapters is essentially it's own Codex with this idea (And no one wants to play an all Long Fangs army anyways ), Daemons already has benefits from taking all from one God (I'm probably wrong though), Dark Eldar could do an all Scourge/Reaver type deal with some modified units (Incubi on Jetbikes? Smells like OP!), and no idea what to do with Tyranids or Necrons except keeping with the idea of giving fast moving options and doing full Gargoyle/Winged Hive Tyrant/Flying Warrior army (which would probaby suck even more than usual) and an all Destroyer/Tomblades?

You get the idea, I think it would make all armies happy. And they'd do it a lot better than I could haha


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polvilhovoador wrote:Exodites!

As long as everything rides a dinosaur I'd play that army

One like to see some of the Chaos Legions/sub factions get their own specific rulesets. Rather than a codex though, I’d prefer it if they got IA add-on rulesets instead. Both the SM and IG codices have gotten some pretty good add on rules from IA so it’d be pretty cool to get some Chaos variants.

Outside of this, a pre heresy/crusade era expansion book would be pretty cool (complete with army lists containing rules for units such as legio custodes, primarchs, jetbikes etc).

I like the idea of a super codex. Or rather, I like the idea of a single space marine codex that has a crap ton of options allowing you to make any chapter out of it. Have a couple pages dedicated to chapters and their unique abilities.

However, GW would make less money from this approach, so they won't do it, no matter how nice it would be.

I think that GW also should combine the Loyal marines into 2-3 books... Codex marines would include BA and DA (since they are really codex organized chapters with different tactics and loadouts), then you'd have SW and BT, leaving a total of 3 codices for loyal marines.

Going this route, I would use a combination of 4th ed. and 5th ed. codices.. Special Characters can "unlock" certain cahpter traits and tactics, but if you want to create your own chapter, there is a table matrix that goes in the generic captain, chaplain or librarian slot (so basically, you get the chapter traits through the 'generic' HQ that you take)

I would then make a proper Chaos "Legions" codex, coupled with a renegades/LatD book on the side.

Mechanicus while sounding nice, I can't really see because we already have "mindless" robots in the form of Necrons, and ultimately the AdMech maintains most of the vehicles in existing imperial armies already, however if they made a supplemental rule book (like planetstrike or apocalypse) with rules to field the militant wing of the AdMech with units and rules (like Skitarii, and Knights, etc.)

Codex: Jakero

/thread

Mechanicus cant have their own Codex unless its strictly for games allowing Titans. I haven't read any fluff that tells of a Mechanicus force deploying to war somewhere without titans, and being that titans are not used in normal sized games it wouldn't make sense from a fluff point of view to have a Mechanicus army that didn't include titans. While I would like to see it from a gaming and modelling point of view the background just doesn't support small forces of Skiitari and the like fighting independently from the titan legions. It would be cool to see some Mechanicus support units released though for use in APOC games along side titans.

That being said It would be cool to see a penal colonies codex as an offshoot of the IG. I think it would make for a really cool army with many different units and a lot of conversion potential. It would be cool to have a Death Korps of Krieg codex too, move all the forgeworld stuff over and turn em into plastic kits. I just love that whole range and wish it was more accessible and affordable.

to fix all fot he IG factions rather than making new codexs all they have to do is re introduce doctrines...why write a new codex when you can take a few old pages and glue them in?

Codex: Space Marines (all in one)
Codex: Chaos (Marines, Deamons and Humans)
Codex Inqisition (Xenos, Malleus, Hereticus, Grey Knights, Deathwatch)
Codex Imperium (Sisters of Battle, Fraetis Militia, Arbites)
Codex Non-Imperial Non-Chaos Humans
Codex Hrud
Codex Mechanicus

Thare1774 wrote:Mechanicus cant have their own Codex unless its strictly for games allowing Titans. I haven't read any fluff that tells of a Mechanicus force deploying to war somewhere without titans, and being that titans are not used in normal sized games it wouldn't make sense from a fluff point of view to have a Mechanicus army that didn't include titans. While I would like to see it from a gaming and modelling point of view the background just doesn't support small forces of Skiitari and the like fighting independently from the titan legions. It would be cool to see some Mechanicus support units released though for use in APOC games along side titans.

Perhaps this could be answered by way of an ability or upgrade available to the Magos (or whatever other HQ names they give out) and he would get an "orbital bombardment" type shot that scatters as normal.. from a gameplay perspective it operates the same as many off the board abilities, but from the fluff standpoint answers the titan question,without significantly altering the balance of the game, by introducing a titan (as in warhound or larger) to the game.

I had also suggested the availability of the Knights from the Mechanicus HH book, as they are not really titans, but most people place them in that same category.

Knights would make sense, they would just have to be about as powerful as a dreadnought or dreadknight which im cool with. But then you'd have to require at least one in the force. I would love to see it happen in a legitimate way for sure. I just don't think GW is willing to put the work into making sure the fluff lines up, it would probably just be stupid. But the models would be cool for sure.

Cyvash wrote:Well given what is left.... The Mechanicus, who wouldnt mind haveing a mechanicus driven codex.

Amen to this, Titans for all

Random high-tech weakling Xenos with skimmers (Eldar, DEldar, Tau) could probably easily work from the same list, despite different minis. As could random Horde-themed Xenos (Nids, Orks). Merge that crap.

Certainly no more loyalist marine factions, we could actually probably do with fewer, especially given that most of them outright share identical or very near identical units/wargear/etc with upwards of 80/90% of their codex's.

A general "Lost and the Damned" list would be cool, something with Traitor Guard/Chaos Soldiers, beastmen, mutants, zombies, lesser chaotic entities, mutated beasts, heretek's and corrupted war machines, etc.

Likewise, an Adeptus Mechanicus list would be awesome.

an "Agents of the Imperium" list could be fun, something that includes Inquisitors, Ad Mech Magos's, Assassins, Rogue Traders, Warbands, etc. Essentially the GK henchmen entry but greatly expanded and with more xenos stuff and things like bounty hunters, lots of mechanicus stuff, etc.

As for Xenos, there's lots of stuff they could do, Hrud, Enslavers, etc.

I would vote "None"

I think we've got plenty of different armies, with interesting model lines and unique rules. I think GW should focus on the ones that are lacking (Chaos Daemons for instance) than any brand new race.

- Expansion book for the most popular Ork Klanz - Goffs, Evil Sunz, Bad Moons.

I'm not too familiar with 40K fluff so I can't think of anything besides that.

They should make an Exodite Codex.

Zweischneid wrote:Random high-tech weakling Xenos with skimmers (Eldar, DEldar, Tau) could probably easily work from the same list, despite different minis. As could random Horde-themed Xenos (Nids, Orks). Merge that crap.

You suggest merging the Xenos codexs but not the Marine codexs............................

Codex Mechanicus
Codex Death Guard


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Codex Mechanicus
Codex Death Guard

bombboy1252 wrote:
You suggest merging the Xenos codexs but not the Marine codexs............................

Definitly. Most Marine codexes are popular books that combine a large fraction of players on them. Merging them would kill game-diversity as an ever greater majority of players converges on ever fewer books. Most Xenos-books in contrast bring fewer players to the hobby each. They are thus not very good allocation of the limited GW-resources for keeping the game fresh and fun.



A little thought experiment to dwell on the point:

To use a strongly simplified example: Imagine the entire 40K hobby would consist of 1000 players and a total of 5 Codexes (the maximum number GW could support for the sake of argument; 2 Space Marine books, 2 Xenos books and a "3rd one", say IG or Chaos or something:

Player distribution however is not equal, as some books are more popular then others.

Space Marines 1: 400 players (40% of the players)
Space Marines 2: 250 players (25%)
Guard or Chaos: 150 players (15%)
Xenos Codex 1: 150 players (15%)
Xenos Codex 2: 50 players (5%)

Version one: Lets merge the Marines and make a new Xenos book. Marine-players converge as Xenos-players stratify (assuming 20% of players of each old Xenos book jump to the new).

Space Marines: 650 players (65% of the players)
Guard or Chaos: 150 players (15%)
Xenos Codex 1: 120 players (12%)
Xenos Codex 2: 40 players (4%)
Xenos Codex 3: 40 players (4%)

As a result, the 40K metagame has become significantly less diverse and more uniform. The large chunk of Marine players, 65% of the hobby, now converge on only one book, while the comparatively small faction of 20% Xenos players are lavished with 3 books and 3 times the GW attention for not even 1/3rd of active gamers..

Version two: Lets merge Xenos and make a new Marine book. Xenos players converge and Marine players stratify (again assuming 20% of players of each old Marine book jump to the new)

Space Marines 1: 320 players (32 % of the players)
Space Marines 2: 200 players (20%)
Space Marines 3: 130 players (13%)
Guard or Chaos: 150 players (15%)
Xenos Codex 1: 200 players (20%)

Now, the spread is much more even. All books now serve over 10% of players and the concentration on the most popular books has been mitigated. A much fairer share of players is served with each GW-update each cycle and the gaming-environment is more diverse, with armies spread more evenly among players.




Now, the numbers above are clearly arbitrary. Nevertheless there is a moral of the story: It doesn't matter which "in-game" faction gets the most or the least books. For a healthy, diverse and fun gaming environment, the objective must be to get the best possible spread of players across books: e.g. avoid "concentrations" of players among a single popular one as well as to avoid inefficient diversity of books that draw too few players to change the overall meta-gaming-enviornment.

As Marine books are clearly the popular books, you will want to have more of them to spread the numerous Marine-fans around. As Xenos are less popular by and large, there is potential for mergers. In either case, the worst thing you could possibly do is merge the more popular books (e.g. Marines), as this would aggravate the loopside in the player-base many times over.

Mechanicus cant have their own Codex unless its strictly for games allowing Titans. I haven't read any fluff that tells of a Mechanicus force deploying to war somewhere without titans, and being that titans are not used in normal sized games it wouldn't make sense from a fluff point of view to have a Mechanicus army that didn't include titans. While I would like to see it from a gaming and modelling point of view the background just doesn't support small forces of Skiitari and the like fighting independently from the titan legions. It would be cool to see some Mechanicus support units released though for use in APOC games along side titans.

Your argument is completely valid.

But Warhammer40k is about the smaller battles in the major wars going on.

An admech army of Skitarii would battle alongside titans but you dont need to feild the titan on the table top. Simply use ordinance barrages to rep the titans fring down onto the feild.

DeffDred wrote:Your argument is completely valid.

But Warhammer40k is about the smaller battles in the major wars going on.

An admech army of Skitarii would battle alongside titans but you dont need to feild the titan on the table top. Simply use ordinance barrages to rep the titans fring down onto the feild.

Well, tthey sure tried this approach of "simulating" immersion into a greater battle, for example by giving Landraiders the Deepstrike rule, explicitly to represent their insertion via Thunderhawk Transports. Instead, the player-base reacted with ridicule of flying Landraiders dropping from orbit.

Based on this, it appears one runs the danger of severly overestimating the intelligence and imagination of 40K players by and large, by believing they would be able to conceive action off-the-board represented by short-hand rules and effect-simulation brought to the smaller 40K game.

Zweischneid wrote:


Now, the numbers above are clearly arbitrary. Nevertheless there is a moral of the story: It doesn't matter which "in-game" faction gets the most or the least books. For a healthy, diverse and fun gaming environment, the objective must be to get the best possible spread of players across books: e.g. avoid "concentrations" of players among a single popular one as well as to avoid inefficient diversity of books that draw too few players to change the overall meta-gaming-enviornment.

As Marine books are clearly the popular books, you will want to have more of them to spread the numerous Marine-fans around. As Xenos are less popular by and large, there is potential for mergers. In either case, the worst thing you could possibly do is merge the more popular books (e.g. Marines), as this would aggravate the loopside in the player-base many times over.

While your example may have some measure of truth to it, I think what you fail to take into account is how many people who start 40k, start with Space Marines. As players progress in the game, many tend to want to branch out, as it were, and collect and play other armies. Often times, the reason there are "so many" marine players, is because a good chunk of them are new to the hobby, and were either 'forced' to play marines by excessively pushy game store staff, or through the peer pressure of other 40k gamers who will tell them that its easiest to learn the game with marines, etc.

I think that by combining the Dark Angels, Blood Angels and "vanilla" marines into one giant codex, they will increase revenue, as now players who started with marines, and were 'interested' in another marine force can purchase the models needed to make a "dark angels" army. AT the same time, I have suggested in this thread expanding on Chaos, to where Legions get their own book, Renegades get theirs and daemons get the last one.. This means that there would be 6 "power armor" codices carried by GW.

You had also suggested combining Orks and Tyranids, Eldar, DE, and Tau into two overall books... Personally, I think that in no way can Orks and bugs be in the same book, as they are vastly different armies, both in gameplay and in fluff. The Eldar and DE, I can't agree with, but I can "see" a combining, but not with Tau in the mix as well. Again, Tau are much too different from the Eldar and DE.


If my local GW is any indication, there is a very even keel player base here in Germany, as there is regular stock updates from ALL 40k armies, and this is slightly less so for WHFB. To me, if your example did take place, this would alienate a good portion of the local meta for where I am currently, and in fact drive many out of the hobby and game all together.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:If my local GW is any indication, there is a very even keel player base here in Germany, as there is regular stock updates from ALL 40k armies, and this is slightly less so for WHFB. To me, if your example did take place, this would alienate a good portion of the local meta for where I am currently, and in fact drive many out of the hobby and game all together.

I don't think it's just your lfgs, or even just Germany. I think that you're right that combining codexs in general is a bad idea, unless it's in updates like you see in things like Apocalypse or my aforementioned MegaUpdateDex, things which simply expand upon the present books. What benefit would it bring to the community? Really nothing, it would simply upset players who really like a certain Chapter as they would most likely feel like their codex got dumbed down. I play Eldar and my friend who I play regularly with plays Dark Eldar and I can tell you that if they tried to combined the armies into one Codex it would be the ugliest mashup possible, especially if you add in Tau... Minimizing the number of codexs gets up no where in the game but more confusion, fluff being decimated, and GW reducing revenue, and we gain... ???

Renegade Militia

Zweischneid wrote:

DeffDred wrote:Your argument is completely valid.

But Warhammer40k is about the smaller battles in the major wars going on.

An admech army of Skitarii would battle alongside titans but you dont need to feild the titan on the table top. Simply use ordinance barrages to rep the titans fring down onto the feild.

Well, tthey sure tried this approach of "simulating" immersion into a greater battle, for example by giving Landraiders the Deepstrike rule, explicitly to represent their insertion via Thunderhawk Transports. Instead, the player-base reacted with ridicule of flying Landraiders dropping from orbit.

Based on this, it appears one runs the danger of severly overestimating the intelligence and imagination of 40K players by and large, by believing they would be able to conceive action off-the-board represented by short-hand rules and effect-simulation brought to the smaller 40K game.

I agree with you, I don't think it would go over well. And honestly I just couldn't play a game assuming a Reaver titan was off the board blowing my entire army apart. Whether the titan is on the board or not the weapons on a titan are designed for mass destruction. It would be hard to play a smaller game with such powerful weapons. Now you could weaken the weapons considerably but then you might as well just not include them at all.

Zweischneid wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:
You suggest merging the Xenos codexs but not the Marine codexs............................

Definitly. Most Marine codexes are popular books that combine a large fraction of players on them. Merging them would kill game-diversity as an ever greater majority of players converges on ever fewer books. Most Xenos-books in contrast bring fewer players to the hobby each. They are thus not very good allocation of the limited GW-resources for keeping the game fresh and fun.

.........

So keeping the game "fresh and fun" includes making several codexs of basically the same thing?

How would merging marine codex's reduce "game diversity" Adding more Xenos, and removing 1 or 2 Marine books, would increase "game diversity" by having more armies to fight against, instead of marine flavor A, B,C,D,E, and F. Marine players get to keep playing Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Black Templars...ect, but now they are in the same book, which would help "GW- limited resources" as you say. And all the players (including marine players) get to see if they like the new Xenos codex, and maybe play with that army.

But if you merge the Xenos codexs, that means theirs more than likely going to be less units per army. because you can only use that armies units. But space marines don't have the problem, because they bring most of the same stuff to the fight anyway. That would reduce "game diversity" and make the game into an even more literal MarineHammer 40000k.

Genestealer Cult
Mechanicus
Traitor Guard/Heretics

If anything, something non-marine.

bombboy1252 wrote:
So keeping the game "fresh and fun" includes making several codexs of basically the same thing?

How would merging marine codex's reduce "game diversity" Adding more Xenos, and removing 1 or 2 Marine books, would increase "game diversity" by having more armies to fight against, instead of marine flavor A, B,C,D,E, and F. Marine players get to keep playing Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Black Templars...ect, but now they are in the same book, which would help "GW- limited resources" as you say. And all the players (including marine players) get to see if they like the new Xenos codex, and maybe play with that army.

But if you merge the Xenos codexs, that means theirs more than likely going to be less units per army. because you can only use that armies units. But space marines don't have the problem, because they bring most of the same stuff to the fight anyway. That would reduce "game diversity" and make the game into an even more literal MarineHammer 40000k.

/shrug. Orks and Nids seem much the same to me too. A bunch of organic-looking models, painted green or painted purple, that rush across the board and try to chop you. The claim they bring more diversity to the game than.. say.. a book with an army build around a core of jump infantry vs. a book build around a core of unit-counts-as-psykers, two markedly different game aspects, seems preposterous once you remove the "in-game" drivel of stories added to it.

Codex: Slann

Its one of the older races mentioned as far back as Rogue Trader, but never developed. GW is a little wary of bringing another WHFB race into 40k, it most likely will never happen, but since the 'Old Ones' have always had such a fluff place in 40k, it wouldn't hurt to bring the reptilians kicking and hissing into 40k.

Zweischneid wrote:

/shrug. Orks and Nids seem much the same to me too. A bunch of organic-looking models, painted green or painted purple, that rush across the board and try to chop you. The claim they bring more diversity to the game than.. say.. a book with an army build around a core of jump infantry vs. a book build around a core of unit-counts-as-psykers, two markedly different game aspects, seems preposterous once you remove the "in-game" drivel of stories added to it.

I am not sure if you are trolling here or just blinded by your love of bland space marines. You just said that marines with jump packs vs marines with psychic powers makes a more diverse game than the entirety of the tyranid codex and model line vs the ork codex and model line. If that were true, we wouldn't have all the xenos codexes, just 5 marine books and 1 alien book. Sounds like a fun and diverse game to me!

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:

I am not sure if you are trolling here or just blinded by your love of bland space marines.

Zweischneid wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:
So keeping the game "fresh and fun" includes making several codexs of basically the same thing?

How would merging marine codex's reduce "game diversity" Adding more Xenos, and removing 1 or 2 Marine books, would increase "game diversity" by having more armies to fight against, instead of marine flavor A, B,C,D,E, and F. Marine players get to keep playing Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Black Templars...ect, but now they are in the same book, which would help "GW- limited resources" as you say. And all the players (including marine players) get to see if they like the new Xenos codex, and maybe play with that army.

But if you merge the Xenos codexs, that means theirs more than likely going to be less units per army. because you can only use that armies units. But space marines don't have the problem, because they bring most of the same stuff to the fight anyway. That would reduce "game diversity" and make the game into an even more literal MarineHammer 40000k.

/shrug. Orks and Nids seem much the same to me too. A bunch of organic-looking models, painted green or painted purple, that rush across the board and try to chop you. The claim they bring more diversity to the game than.. say.. a book with an army build around a core of jump infantry vs. a book build around a core of unit-counts-as-psykers, two markedly different game aspects, seems preposterous once you remove the "in-game" drivel of stories added to it.

Orks = Insane, bloodthirsty fungi that need to fight to survive. They build vehicles and guns out of junk and scrap metal, and use it to punishing effects. Usually able to field well over a thousand boyz to a "Propa fight". If enough boyz gather together, and a Warboss is strong enough to lead them, they go on a galaxy wide genocide know as a "Waaagh!".

Tyranids = Bloodthirsty alien monstrosities led by a single entity....the Hivemind. Insect-like in appearance, the Tyranids can rapidly evolve at an alarming rate.

Marines = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the, the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos.

Marines 2 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge , the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter likes to use jump packs.

Marines 3 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter thinks their wolves.

Marines 4 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter has a dark secret that no one knows about.

Marines 5 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter is overly religious and and tries extra hard to purge the xenos.

Marines 6 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter is very secret and tries extra hard to purge the Daemons of the warp

Do you see a pattern yet?

You have a good point Bom, Xenos should totally get 3 codexs.
Tyranids and Eldar
Orks and Tau
The rest (are there more than 4 armies that aren't Space Marines? I can never remember)

Glad I could be of service.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*SPESS MEHRINES
Sorry about that typo

felixander wrote:You have a good point Bom, Xenos should totally get 3 codexs.
Tyranids and Eldar
Orks and Tau
The rest (are there more than 4 armies that aren't Space Marines? I can never remember)

Glad I could be of service.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*SPESS MEHRINES
Sorry about that typo

What are you going on about?

Before this devolves any further, I did just have another idea for a codex/codices...

IF, and this is a big if here, IF GW combined the Dark Eldar, and 'craftworld' Eldar into one book, they NEEEEEEEEEDDDD to make a viable Harlequin army again. I know that the Harleys were only "supported" as a WD or fan 'dex, I do think that the harlequins would be different enough in feel that it would be a legitimate army on its own, however they do not have enough units to warrant their own book, and so would fall under both Eldar and DE.

Kroot
Genestealer cult
Chaos cultists/renegades
and if Im allowed to make one up - bring back sqats as a full codex with loads of mech..

Ork Speed freekzzzzz

bombboy1252 wrote:What are you going on about?

Just some sarcasm... nevermind


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ensis Ferrae wrote:IF, and this is a big if here, IF GW combined the Dark Eldar, and 'craftworld' Eldar into one book, they NEEEEEEEEEDDDD to make a viable Harlequin army again. I know that the Harleys were only "supported" as a WD or fan 'dex, I do think that the harlequins would be different enough in feel that it would be a legitimate army on its own, however they do not have enough units to warrant their own book, and so would fall under both Eldar and DE.

But Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar are a lot more different than Harlequins are... I know some people love 'em but I think they're gonna be stuck as just units for Eldar and Dark Eldar

I'd like to see a Farsight Enclave Codex, Harlequins would be cool and/or Kroot (or new xeno).

Basically anything but another Imperium codex...

felixander wrote:
But Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar are a lot more different than Harlequins are... I know some people love 'em but I think they're gonna be stuck as just units for Eldar and Dark Eldar

I know that the two eldar are very different from each other, but at least in some BL books I have read, the Harlequins are those who have followed the laughing god, and have "abandoned" their dark, or craftworld kin... I am just not sure how you could justify an entire army of nothing but harlequins, without working the system to make it work, or combining the eldar codices.

I'd really like to see a Steel Legion codex exist because "Codex Armageddon" was the book that truly got me into 40k. I decided to play BT,lore and the EC, based on that book. My friend ran Steel Legion because he loved armoured companies.

I'm drunk, and this might just be a huge biased nostalgia bomb, considering IG do full mech incredibly well in 5e anyway.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Orks = Insane, bloodthirsty fungi that need to fight to survive. They build vehicles and guns out of junk and scrap metal, and use it to punishing effects. Usually able to field well over a thousand boyz to a "Propa fight". If enough boyz gather together, and a Warboss is strong enough to lead them, they go on a galaxy wide genocide know as a "Waaagh!".

Tyranids = Bloodthirsty alien monstrosities led by a single entity....the Hivemind. Insect-like in appearance, the Tyranids can rapidly evolve at an alarming rate.

Marines = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the, the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos.

Marines 2 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge , the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter likes to use jump packs.

Marines 3 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter thinks their wolves.

Marines 4 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter has a dark secret that no one knows about.

Marines 5 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant, and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter is overly religious and and tries extra hard to purge the xenos.

Marines 6 = Genetically engineered super soldiers, the last hope for humanity. The space marines fight in the name of the god Emperor of mankind to purge the mutant and the heretic alike. Split in half at the time of the heresy, the loyal chapters fight to purge their traitorous "brothers" and the rest of the spawns of Chaos. This chapter is very secret and tries extra hard to purge the Daemons of the warp

Do you see a pattern yet?

Again. You're putting the cart before the horse by trying to "justify" the investment into a book from the in-universe fluff that comes attached with it. The multiplicity of books that reflect the "genetically engineered super soldier, the last hope of humanity. etc..." vs. "some form of xenos or another" is the effect, not the cause. As argued above, you see which books are popular and which books are not. You release "new armies" with the "variant of fluff"-attached that appears popular as to draw players from the more popular books and spread them more evenly across different books. You shouldn't assume that player distribution is in any way parallel to the in-universe set-up of factions in a fictional conflict.

If you, as a games producer, want to launch a new codex, pick a broad theme (say, Vampires and Space or Vikings in Space), and look if there is currently an overhang of either Marine or Xenos players, you pick the more popular one (often Marines) as to split the larger player base and not dilute the smaller one. If the distributions and interest of players would have been differently, we wouldn't have Blood Angel Space Marines, but perhaps Blood Eldar afflicted by a vampiric curse. And instead of Space Wolf Space Marines, we'd have a Viking-Raiders-in-Space-themed Ork-faction with their own book. But that wasn't the books players flocked to back in the late 80s and early 90s, and as a consequence of the need to split up the "big" blocks of players, rather than the "small" blocks, they went with Space Marines. Simples.

The Cults are definitely the most overlooked and under-represented armies int he history of 40K. I can only assume this means they don't sell very well.

However, business aspects aside, I'd like to see usable rules again for Genestealer Cults and Chaos Cults. This could even be a single book, really, and have rules for making one of the five flavors of Chaos, and then rules for the Genestealers.

Exodite Eldar. Supposedly different from Dark and Craftworld. I'd assume they'd be the wood elves of the 40k universe. Would love to see some more xeno factions.

If not them, then maybe a renegade human book that could act as planetary revolts, pirates or even traitor guards.

I'd definitely not want another marine book.

I would like to see Allies brought back, cause that does two things 1) Adds more flavor and choices to existing codicies. 2) you can add much smaller factions to 40k. Like the Harlies, I love them, they are cool and have tons of fluff, but they are very limited unit wise, not having enough to reliably feild a whole army. So, you could give them there own codex, but make it an allies dex for Eldar and DE. And getting in on the troll train. Personally, I do see the need for marine dex trimming, theres too damn many on them (at least in my local area) and honestly, there is no damn need for it, the changes are minor enough to put in the main dex as foot notes for the specific unit. I.E. the LRC entry would read on the bottom "If playing a black templars army This unit can be taken as a Dedicated transport for the following units; A,B,C,D" and diversification is cool, and so is the fluff, but really, being able to play a 6 man tourney with all differant dexes and all of them being MEQ is boring as hell. Some fluff should stay fluff, notably the various chapters of the Space Marines. Now to the forum topic, codecies I would love to see.

Ad Mech: Allies codex to Imperium forces (I know they did away with allies but I love them.)

Arbites: I've seen a few fandexes, my favorites focused on being low Str leafblowers, caus it makes sence with the fluff that arbites are awsome at stomping massed swarms of infantry, but had difficulty with anything else. Could also be run as Allies and that dex included rules to do so.

Personally, I really love the static 3rd parties dex Idea, units that opperate on Die rolls and are other neither players control is a fun random element to the mix that offers more depth, because they may help you one turn and burn you the next.

I liked Witch Hunters and Deamon Hunters as Allies, and along that thread I would love to see Death Watch.

Thats just my 2 cents.

Zweischneid wrote:
Again. You're putting the cart before the horse by trying to "justify" the investment into a book from the in-universe fluff that comes attached with it. The multiplicity of books that reflect the "genetically engineered super soldier, the last hope of humanity. etc..." vs. "some form of xenos or another" is the effect, not the cause. As argued above, you see which books are popular and which books are not. You release "new armies" with the "variant of fluff"-attached that appears popular as to draw players from the more popular books and spread them more evenly across different books. You shouldn't assume that player distribution is in any way parallel to the in-universe set-up of factions in a fictional conflict.

The in-universe fluff is a big part to the game. I know that's why I, and plenty of other people get into the game because of the amazing fluff. Now if we start snipping the fluff from other books, and make another Marine book, that's just the player base reading about the horus heresy again.........

For "In-game", many people love playing xenos as well as marines. And cutting Xenos books would be worse than cutting marine books. Xenos books bring entirely new factions into the game, I'd assume if you were going to merge say.....Eldar and Dark Eldar. They would both only have 1/2 of the units that were in their previous codexs because they need to fit it all into the same book. On the other hand, if you were to merge Marine books, that issue wouldn't really exist. Marines bring pretty much the same things to the table. Tacticals, assault marine, Rhinos, land raiders, land speeders, devastators, scouts ...ect

So you're saying by cutting Xenos codexs and making more Marine codexs, you're going to "increase" game diversity, and make a more unique playing experience for each game. When really all you're going to be doing, is making the same book with a tiny twist.....I.E Long fangs are pretty much devastators, assaults are troops in BA, but fast attack (I think, they might be elites...I don't have the SM codex) in the other books.

Codex Imperium, encompasses Ad Mech, Space marines, Inquisition, IG, BA, BT, SW, DA,DKoK, Steel Legion, Catachans.etc. It wouldn't be very practical and would be fething huge, but it would be pretty sweet to have a legal and cohesive army like that.

Aegis1650 wrote:, being able to play a 6 man tourney with all differant dexes and all of them being MEQ is boring as hell. Some fluff should stay fluff, notably the various chapters of the Space Marines. Now to the forum topic, codecies I would love to see.

You're misidentifying the cause and effect here. There are more Marine Codexes because more people play Marines, not more Marine players because there are more Codexes. If they have one MegaCodex for all the Marine armies, that tournament still has all MEQ players. They're just all carrying the same book. Space Marines sell way more models than any of the other armies. It's just the facts of life sir.

Adeptus Mechanicus

Ork Klans

Eldar Craftworlds



In that order.

The idea to combine all Space marine codices into one is ridiculous. Have you seen the size of the basic marines codex. Its already one of the largest books out there. To add in all of the fluff and rules for SW, BT, BA, DA, and GK would make it even more over sized. I don't want to have to tote around an encyclopedia just because I use maybe half of the rules inside the book. It would end up getting so large they might as well produce it in volumes. . .

dmthomas7 wrote:The idea to combine all Space marine codices into one is ridiculous. Have you seen the size of the basic marines codex. Its already one of the largest books out there. To add in all of the fluff and rules for SW, BT, BA, DA, and GK would make it even more over sized.

They managed to portray each of the 9 Traitor Legions of Chaos in the 3.5 E book just fine, are you saying that the much more uniform loyalist chapters would be more difficult? Don't forget that these armies share 80/90% or more of the same units or close variants thereof, and much of the same fluff, while many of the special rules and variant units could, without too much effort, be condensed into a couple pages for each chapter. The only real issue would be the volume of Special Characters

I don't want to have to tote around an encyclopedia just because I use maybe half of the rules inside the book. It would end up getting so large they might as well produce it in volumes.

Ridiculous, there's no reason it would need to be that large, and given the way many people treat SM's in general already as essentially one big book, it might as well be one big book and it'd give SM players a much easier ability to expand their forces at will or try out new stuff.

Only when on internet forums to people complain about the prospect of an awesome sourcebook with rules for every subfaction and it being too much of a hassle for them to bother with because they don't use half the rules. Do you use all of the units in your codex now? I've got 10,000pts of IG if not more and I'll never use or own half the units in the book just on general principle (e.g. I hate the idea of cavalry in a universe with automatic weapons and tanks, so am never going to touch Rough Riders), I'm not complaining about it.

Is it possible that it could work, maybe. If it could be done well then more power to them, though it seems unlikely. It would seem overbearing to any newcomer to the game to pick up the codex and be faced with that many options. The game is already complex enough. It would be over complicated to try to lump all these chapters together. Saying that they did a good job with chaos in 3rd ed isn't quite a valid point either seeing codices are written much differently since then. I wasn't playing back then but its obvious to see the way the game has progressed even from 4th to 5th.

Though the entire argument is mute since GW would obviously never reduce the number of Marine codices out there. Face the facts guys before long there will be more MEQ codices. Whether or not its a good thing doesn't matter, it's just what will happen with Marines being the most popular. Only thing to hope for is that the rest of the Races will hold their popularity and not end up becoming history.

I'm all for a new race of xenos. I don't know enough options out there without GW having to have to come up with everything from scratch basically. Though it could be possible to bring in the Enslavers since there's already some backstory to them.

An additional human based codex. IG representing the entire human population of the galaxy could be improved upon IMHO. There are several avenues they could take with it, down the chaos path, have an inquisitorial nature behind or base it on the worlds of humanity that are still undiscovered by Terra.

Aegis1650 wrote:I would like to see Allies brought back, cause that does two things 1) Adds more flavor and choices to existing codicies. 2) you can add much smaller factions to 40k.

I loved Allies, but I can't imagine going up against an army of SM Bikers, with Long Fangs and Paladins backing them up... It's asking for too much OP. Also because you would be able to take units from other armies I feel like unless they put a very limited amount on Allies (10% of total points instead of the original 25%) you're going to see a single cookie cutter build or at least idea with minor variations played across the board =( Maybe I'm wrong =)

Aegis1650 wrote:I liked Witch Hunters and Deamon Hunters as Allies, and along that thread I would love to see Death Watch.

Well you can do that by having every squad be 1 man and having access to every codex =P Otherwise I think you're better off doing generic SM. Imagine how HUGE that Codex would be if they did a true Death Watch codex hahaha

dmthomas7 wrote:The idea to combine all Space marine codices into one is ridiculous. Have you seen the size of the basic marines codex. Its already one of the largest books out there. To add in all of the fluff and rules for SW, BT, BA, DA, and GK would make it even more over sized. I don't want to have to tote around an encyclopedia just because I use maybe half of the rules inside the book. It would end up getting so large they might as well produce it in volumes. . .

I don't want to combine ALL of the marines into one book, just the ones that are closest to codex.. that means BA, DA, and Vanilla marines are all one book. Then SW, BT, GK still have their separate books, because they do not organize or fight anywhere near similarly to the "other guys"

Codex: Zombies based on the civillions of planets that rose from the dead from the Zombie Plauge

Rather than Squats or Ogryns it'd probably be easier to do Codex: Abhumans

Personally though my vote would be Codex: Hrud (I'm a sucker for new Xenos)

The Allies rules were pretty cool, though my SW friend wouldn't be able Jaw cheese anymore.

Add Hive Gangers to the IG dex.

BLOOD RAVENS AND THEIR ENTIRE LIBRARIAN COMPANIES!!!

and their stolen weapons. Davian Thule has the Sword of Silence, and Dorn's arrow, but may exchange the Sword of Silence for Sicarius' Talassarian Blade and Dorn's Arrow for the Gauntlet of the Forge. Alternatively he can exchange his Sword of Silence and Dorn's Arrow for the Raven's Talons or the Gauntlets of Ultramar. Forget it, he can take any weapon from any other Imperium Codex

My vote goes to a codex for the Mechanicus, it would be awesome to see some of the tech hidden by the Mechanicus used in battle (maybe even some Dark Age of Tech stuff)
--or--
Death Corps of Krieg, these IG don't know the meaning of fear

Banzaimash wrote:and their stolen weapons. Davian Thule has the Sword of Silence, and Dorn's arrow, but may exchange the Sword of Silence for Sicarius' Talassarian Blade and Dorn's Arrow for the Gauntlet of the Forge. Alternatively he can exchange his Sword of Silence and Dorn's Arrow for the Raven's Talons or the Gauntlets of Ultramar. Forget it, he can take any weapon from any other Imperium Codex

That's even better, a Chapter with special rule of using wargear from other Imperial forces.

Ork Klans don't need their own codexes. It'd be easy to include them just by including klan-specific options in the next Ork Codex.

For example; bring back Skarboyz (S4 ork Boyz) as a Troops choice, but limit them to 0-1. Then let players buy Klan upgrades for a Warboss; so if you buy a Goff Warboss, the limit on Skarboyz is removed and maybe Nobz in Boyz mobs are free or something. If you buy an Evil Sunz Warboss, Warbikers become Troops and Boyz get a discount on Trukks, if you buy a Bad Moon Warboss Flash Gitz (suitably rejiggered to be useful) get More Dakka for free and Nobz can upgrade their shootas, if you buy a Blood Axe warboss Kommandos are troops and Nobz can buy the Infiltrate special. . . something like that. This also gives an Ork player a reason to take a Warboss, instead of taking Ghaz and a KFF Mek.

Lost and the Damned would be a good new codex, as would Mechanicus. Honestly, I don't think the game needs more xeno codexes; the major factions seem pretty well represented, and we don't want every single race ever mentioned to have a codex. That would get unmanageable, fast. As much of a xeno-lover as I am, I have to say that the IoM DESERVES to have the most codexes; they're the most important faction!

The Inquisition also needs a Codex. By which I mean a Codex focused fully on the Inquisition itself, as an organization, as opposed to a Codex of SoB with Inquisitors tacked on and Codex; GK. Give us a Codex for the Holy Inquisition, divided into three sections for the Ordos Hereticus, Malleus, and Xenos. That would be fun, fluffy, and provide lots of interesting options, as well as allowing for one 'overarching' army with lots of customization possible; Grey Knights/Deathwatch/Sisters of Battle as Elite options, with specialized Inquisitors who unlock different army options, and the bulk of the army being ISTs/inducted Guard and Inquisitorial henchmen.

That said, I certainly do agree that there should be some consolidation among the Space Marine chapters. There are too many, and the differences are too minor to warrant having five different codexes. A SM codex with Ultramarines/Space Wolves and rules for custom chapters, an Angels of Death codex with Blood Angels/ Dark Angels, and a Righteous Crusaders codex with Black Templars/Imperial Fists and successors would be plenty.

Or you could have Codex SM ( Ultramarines, DA, BA and BT) and Space Wolves. In truth, the only really different units in the BT codex are Crusader squads, the Emperor's Champion, Helbrecht and Grimaldus. The other squads are really only different by name(Sword Brethren=1st company of Codex Chapters, Marshal/Castellan= Captains). I personally don't like the idea of the BT being in the same codex as regular SM as I feel that they could really be expanded upon. The same principal applies to DA, as their only defining units are the Deathwing and Ravenwing, along with their special characters. These could be included in the regular SM codex as elites/ fast attack choices, but I would prefer for them to be expanded upon in their next codex rather than reduced. BA also are too similar to regular marines to have a separate codex as aside from the fact that they can take assault troops as troops, the rest of their stuff can easily be fitted into the SM codex (Sanguinary Guard= Elites). Their assault troops should become troops when a special character, like Dante, is used. that Space Wolves are just too different in their units to warrant them being fused with this hypothetical SM codex. Imperial Fists don't really need their own dex, as they are only a regular codex chapter that specialises in siege warfare and 'holding the line'. Name wise, the names Angels of Death and Righteous Crusaders are pretty sweet though.

Id have to disagree about BA being similar to Vanilla Marines, They have enough unique units and rules that adding them to the Marines Codex would be very cumbersome to use. DA though I don't know much about them, seem to be more similar to marines then the others. Though I've never played with or against them.

I personally feel the current codex could be expanded as well. I feel like there may need to be more rules for chapters using the marines codex that don't already have their own. Many of the First Founding chapters are still stuck trying to use the rules from the Marines codex that in many cases still don't properly embody the chapters very well. Chapters such as the WS, IH, IF, RG , and Salamanders are different enough that the few special rules they get don't quite do justice to the armies. It seems that almost for certain the IH need more they don't even follow the Codex Astartes. The IF probably are fine as they are since its said they now follow the codex nearly as well as the Ultramarines. The WS and RG probably need further rules to further express their individual chapter tactics. The Salamanders as well could use a little more love. Truthfully all the first founding legions (that are still loyal) should receive a decent amount of love when it comes to rules.

Hmm.. I'd be inclined to take the dissenting view here. It seems to me that a large part of the fun of 40K is that each race has it's own detailed background with models and rules to justify the fluff. Isn't it possible that combining multiple races into the same codex might lead to an overall downplay of any one race's importance in the overall 40K universe? A dedicated 'dex offers more than just rules; it offers solidarity.

Somehow I doubt space marines ever, ever, EVER need to worry about not having enough fluff. They'd all fit in one codex easily and still have every book written in the history of ever to cover all the special snowflake chapter fluff.

Joey wrote:An Inquisitor one would be cool. It could be a "meta-codex" with troop choices from IG, SM and GK.
It'd be very charector-orientated and entirely awesome.

They did have a codex just like that. It was called "Codex: Deamonhunters" and used allies.

I think the tau should have never gotten the kroot and instead the kroot got their own codex. And i don't know how many of you have read xenology but the thyrrus should become an army, that i think might be cool to play as


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or a pure adeptus mechanicus army. They already have models in ig and space marine. They have a ton of fluff and history already, why not just make a codex. it would be cool using all the bionic weaponry and there are already some stat lines for units.

-Ad Mech
-CSM to become Chaos Legions and Chaos Renegades (featuring traitor IG)
-Ordo Xenos (Deathwatch dex), Ordo Hereticus (Sisters of battle dex), Ordo Mallius (Grey Knights dex) respectively
-Something which allows you to use allies more effectively
-Get rid of most of the MEQ books, we only need Space Marine Legions and Space Marine (vanilla)
-Eldar split into Craftworld Eldar and Eldar Pirates (including exodites)

Samus_aran115 wrote:Raptor Cult- Bumming of C:CSM
All units in the codex move like jump infantry, but no dedicated transports may be taken.
All units have the USR Hit and Run
All units may take Defensive Grenades for __ points per unit
Aspiring champions may take double lighting claws for 25 points

New Unit: Raptor Cult Chosen, or something like that
5 WS, 4 BS, 4 S, 4 T, 6 I, 3 A, 2 W, 10 ld, 3+ 4++ Sv
Each model is equipped with a power weapon, bolt pistol, defensive grenades, frag Grenades, Ancient power armor (gives a 4++, due to being old, lol)
Champion for this unit gains a toughness and a strength
All models may elect to take a pair of lightning claws, or a plasma pistol
40 points each, 50 for the champion

This is the kind of reason why people will never be happy. The model above pracitcally is the same as a raptor except:
you gain one Weapon Skill, you get an extra wound (?!?!) Initiative 6 (SIX?!?), 2 extra base attacks, +1 Leadership, a 4++ save, gains hit and Run (once again with Initiative 6...), and to make it all even more completely ludicrious the Chosen gets +1 Strength and Toughness?
For 20 points more per model? Are you serious? A power weapon costs 15 points but you want to add on all the insanity you listed for 5 points? Oh but they can't take transports (which they couldn't anyways).

THIS is perfect example as to why people will never feel their armor is powerful enough. If someone else tried to play a FanDex built like that against you I think you would crap your pants with how stupidly overpowered and underpriced it was.

Cyvash wrote:Well given what is left.... The Mechanicus, who wouldnt mind haveing a mechanicus driven codex.

this

Traitor Guard, Kroot, or Sisters of Battle.

off-shoot chapters for CSM should have codices

EXODITES!, Loxatl and renegades