Codex: Orks

Unit:Meganobz

Rule: All Meganobz come equipped standard with Stikkbombs(assault grenades)

Problem: All meganobz have Power Klaws which strike at initiative 1 regardless and have no other weapon options.

WHHHYYYYYYYY!?!?!?!

Codex: Sisters of Battle

Unit: Battle Sisters Squad

Rule: The unit may take an Immolator as its dedicated transport

Problem: The Immolator can only carry 6 models, whereas the minimum squad size of a Battle Sisters Squad is 10 models, and cannot be split up into smaller groups

@ Grots R OP

That makes perfect sense.

In the Ork society Nobs are the biggest and strongest (barring the Warboss, of course) and so they lay claim to the most loot and the snazziest equipment (like the Mega-Armour itself, for example). Whether they can use it or not should be completely irrelevant to the Nob. He is strong, therefore he should get it.

Now why said Meganobs do not have access to Cybork Bodies (kool gear) or Boss poles (status symbol showing he is the biggest and baddest).....now THAT makes no sense at all.


....

Marbo's Envenomed Blade isn't a Close Combat Weapon (but maybe that's the source of his 4th attack instead of 3rd?)

This might be a memory fail. But, I think it's Tycho who has digital weapons and a Master Crafted sword... Both do the same thing

Codex: Grey Knights

Unit: Brotherhood Champion

Rule: Can take Digital Weapons to re-roll a single failed 'to wound' roll.

Problem: He is armed with what is effectively a lightning claw, so he already re-rolls all failed 'to wound' rolls.

Compel wrote:Marbo's Envenomed Blade isn't a Close Combat Weapon (but maybe that's the source of his 4th attack instead of 3rd?)

This might be a memory fail. But, I think it's Tycho who has digital weapons and a Master Crafted sword... Both do the same thing

Yes, yes it is......


As for my pet peeve, if you go second the PBS leadership power does not last till the next turn, just that turn.....which is insanely limiting.

Llhaeman.

Why? She only upgrades one weapon for the Archon, and 5pts could get a Venom Blade, which does exactly the same in CC for a lower price.

When Space Wolves want to use their Wolf Standards, they either have to declare it in the Shooting phase or wait until the NEXT assault phase to activate them, instead of the CURRENT assault phase!

Black Templar terminator command squad-picture suggests a banner is possible, but there is no option for it. Bad terminator command squad!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At tycho comment: master crafted is to hit, digital is to wound, I believe. And if I'm wrong, it means he can re-roll up to 2 attacks. How is it pointless, either way?

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Llhaeman.

Why? She only upgrades one weapon for the Archon, and 5pts could get a Venom Blade, which does exactly the same in CC for a lower price.

Her only purpose is to be converted into Lady Malys

We should send this thread to the editors lol. I am glad to see your codexes are f-ed up too though .

Ymgarl Genestealers using the Dormant rule always strike at Initiative 1 in in the following Assault phase, as they lack grenades. Why Tyranids, the best CC army in the game, only has access 2 units with Assault grenades, I do not know.

Bonus: The Shadow in the Warp is described as cutting off entire sectors from contact, and basically instant-killing any psykers. Yet in the game, it only extends 12" (half the distance of a hood) and, amazingly, is stopped cold by Transport vehicles.

odorofdeath wrote:Ymgarl Genestealers using the Dormant rule always strike at Initiative 1 in in the following Assault phase, as they lack grenades. Why Tyranids, the best CC army in the game, only has access 2 units with Assault grenades, I do not know.

Not always... if you leave the terrain in your movement and don't have to roll for terrain during the assault move, you don't get owned on init.

Creed doesn't have a Close Combat Weapon...fail.

Space Marines Codex

How Space Marines ‘advance’ to Tactical Squads only after campaigning successfully as a part of other units, such as Devastator. So you go from Scout to Devastator or Assault to Tactical. Imagine that:

“Brother Jim, you have served faithfully in the Devastators and honed your skills of long–range destruction. In order to put your long range combat experience to good use, take this chainsword and bolt pistol and go get ’em!”

Nice catch, rigeld. I think I'll give Ymgarls another try then. The lack of army-wide grenades is still annoying.

Joey wrote:Creed doesn't have a Close Combat Weapon...fail.

It's almost like he's not meant to fight in close combat or something.

Compel wrote:Marbo's Envenomed Blade isn't a Close Combat Weapon (but maybe that's the source of his 4th attack instead of 3rd?)

This might be a memory fail. But, I think it's Tycho who has digital weapons and a Master Crafted sword... Both do the same thing

Master crafted rerolls one hit, digital weapons reroll wounds.

I really hate the prevalence of the word "fail" in its current usage. Ugh.

odorofdeath wrote:Ymgarl Genestealers using the Dormant rule always strike at Initiative 1 in in the following Assault phase, as they lack grenades. Why Tyranids, the best CC army in the game, only has access 2 units with Assault grenades, I do not know.

Bonus: The Shadow in the Warp is described as cutting off entire sectors from contact, and basically instant-killing any psykers. Yet in the game, it only extends 12" (half the distance of a hood) and, amazingly, is stopped cold by Transport vehicles.

Hey Bloodletters don't have assault grenades either! Go Figure.

odorofdeath wrote:Nice catch, rigeld. I think I'll give Ymgarls another try then. The lack of army-wide grenades is still annoying.

Oh, absolutely. And if you don't roll high enough to get out of the terrain, you can still run in the movement phase to get a second chance to get out - fleet lets you still assault.

Pouncey wrote:Codex: Sisters of Battle

Unit: Battle Sisters Squad

Rule: The unit may take an Immolator as its dedicated transport

Problem: The Immolator can only carry 6 models, whereas the minimum squad size of a Battle Sisters Squad is 10 models, and cannot be split up into smaller groups

The roof hatch on the back of the Immolator suddenly being locked as well as it no longer being able to drive at them and burn.

Kodanshi wrote:Space Marines Codex

How Space Marines ‘advance’ to Tactical Squads only after campaigning successfully as a part of other units, such as Devastator. So you go from Scout to Devastator or Assault to Tactical. Imagine that:

“Brother Jim, you have served faithfully in the Devastators and honed your skills of long–range destruction. In order to put your long range combat experience to good use, take this chainsword and bolt pistol and go get ’em!”

Even though the Codex before it they advanced the other way around, the one that actually made sense; scout then to tactical, depending on skills shown determined where they went next. You can shoot that bolter pretty accurately? Go to devastators. You punch them good? Assault Marine.

Kodanshi wrote:Space Marines Codex

How Space Marines ‘advance’ to Tactical Squads only after campaigning successfully as a part of other units, such as Devastator. So you go from Scout to Devastator or Assault to Tactical. Imagine that:

“Brother Jim, you have served faithfully in the Devastators and honed your skills of long–range destruction. In order to put your long range combat experience to good use, take this chainsword and bolt pistol and go get ’em!”

I think to an extend it actually makes sense.

Tactical marines have to be well rounded. They have to be able to shoot, be able to survive in close-combat. They have to be, well, tactical. Why expect them to shoot AND assault when they were never specifically trained for either?

So you just graduated scout school,, and you start in the Devastator squad. Your first assignment is probably as far back from battle as you can get when you are a Space Marine. Your job is pretty much this: Hand ammo to the guy doing the shooting, and learn. Do it long enough and you may even someday get to shoot the thing. By the time you are done you know everything about shooting.

After that you move to the assault squad. You learn everything there is to know about that specialty. You already know how to kill people from far away, now it is time to learn how to kill people with a sword. As we all know the only purpose of warp-travel, orbital landings, and huge tanks is to get close enough to hit people with swords.

Now you know how to shoot, and you know how to fight in close combat. NOW you become a tactical marine, where both is equally important and unless you can do both you are a useless tactical squad. What good is a tactical squad that is good at shooting but gets slaughtered in assault, or a squad that can't hit the broadside of a barn and no ability to assault.

n0t_u wrote:Even though the Codex before it they advanced the other way around, the one that actually made sense; scout then to tactical, depending on skills shown determined where they went next. You can shoot that bolter pretty accurately? Go to devastators. You punch them good? Assault Marine.

Well, to an extend we still have the same system represented in the new codex. The new fluff is basically:

Scout -> learn how to shoot -> learn how to fight in close combat -> serve in the squad where you have to know how to do both -> if you are really good at one of the two specialties (even for Space Marine standards) you can become a Sternguard or Vanguard Veteran.

d-usa wrote:

I think to an extend it actually makes sense.

Tactical marines have to be well rounded. They have to be able to shoot, be able to survive in close-combat. They have to be, well, tactical. Why expect them to shoot AND assault when they were never specifically trained for either?

So you just graduated scout school,, and you start in the Devastator squad. Your first assignment is probably as far back from battle as you can get when you are a Space Marine. Your job is pretty much this: Hand ammo to the guy doing the shooting, and learn. Do it long enough and you may even someday get to shoot the thing. By the time you are done you know everything about shooting.

After that you move to the assault squad. You learn everything there is to know about that specialty. You already know how to kill people from far away, now it is time to learn how to kill people with a sword. As we all know the only purpose of warp-travel, orbital landings, and huge tanks is to get close enough to hit people with swords.

Now you know how to shoot, and you know how to fight in close combat. NOW you become a tactical marine, where both is equally important and unless you can do both you are a useless tactical squad. What good is a tactical squad that is good at shooting but gets slaughtered in assault, or a squad that can't hit the broadside of a barn and no ability to assault.

No. In the modern day military, you train for both, and if you show an aptitude for shooting, you can opt to be a sniper. You don't train as a sniper then learn how to be a Marine.

There shouldn't be a linear progression. It should split after tactical into Devastator or Assault squads. It should be Scouts (learn CC and shooting) -> Tactical (enhance those skills) -> IF prefer shooting=Devastator /IF prefer CC then Assault -> Sternguard or Vanguard Veteran Squad. While keeping the noobs in back sounds like a good idea, forcing them to then go headfirst into the enemy after they've had zero training in that area (for what, years?) is an even worse idea. "Hey, I know you've been training as a sniper for the past decade, but your next assignment is to strap this thing on an run at the enemy."

On topic: Necron Codex- Triarch Praetorians, the well-trained bodyguards of the Necron Overlords, only have WS4 and 1 A. Really? I know they can get back up, but come on. I mean, their staff isn't even worth a tenth of their point cost.

I think a linear progression suits the backwards IoM & the Astartes. It fits with the rigid way in which things are done in the Imperium. D-usa's comments also ring true. Tactical Squads are the backbone of each Company, the ones who are called upon to fight toe-to-toe with the enemy with boltgun & combat knife. Better to have a well-rounded, well-trained force who can adapt to situations than a fresh, new recruit who has just moved on from being a Scout, thrown into the fray against xenos and traitors headfirst without understanding the differences between fighting up close and at range, when to close the distance, when not to, when to shoot the enemy down and when to fight them in a melee.

It also differs Astartes from the Eldar. Eldar choose and specialise in a single path, mastering it utterly until they might, possibly, choose a different path one day. That sense of free-will suits the Eldar but I don't think it really sits well with the IoM or Astartes.

As for Codex mistakes - IG Rough Riders. Can take a pistol OR a sword. Not both. So as a CC unit they can charge with their lances, get all their attacks and then be reduced to 1A each following that.

Also Mogul Kamir has Furious Charge which is silly. The hunting lances strike at an unmodified S5 I5 - his furious charge +S1 & +I1 isn't going to help there. With him in the unit they also suffer from Rage, so they have to move towards the closest enemy unit which could be exploited by your opponent by them shoving a target the lances can't hurt against them. Such as a Land Raider. They ride in, use their lances to no effect and become S3 guardsmen who can move 12" with their awesome power weapon attacks, a sure-fire Terminator Squad killer, wasted. I wouldn't take him ever - 40 points I could spend elsewhere.
Maybe if they could take a sword & pistol for the extra 1A then he might be alright for the Fearless and subsequent charges at +S1 +I1, but as I'd only use them as a blocking unit/'terminator' killers, that's little use to me.

I guess it depends on how you look at a Devastator. He could either be a Tactical Marine that turned out to be really good with a gun. Or he could be a Tactical Marine without close combat training.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think if I have to pick the worst rule/makes-no-sense-whatsoever entry in the Vanilla Marine codex it would be a toss-up between either:

a) The Storm not being a designated transport for scouts even though scouts are the only unit that can ever ride in one

b) The fact that a Captain can take a jump pack, and his command squad can't.

Codex: Tyranids (not exactly my favourite but whatevs)

Unit: Carnifex (don't get me started)

Rule: Crushing Claws

Problem: So I'm paying another 25pts to give me +D3 attacks? Ok that's not so bad, rerolls from dual scything talons might be better, but I'd be willing to do that. Wait... I always strike at I1 if I do? ARGH. I know it's not like it really matters against MEQ, but I've lost Fexes to lowly Guardsmen because of it.

On top of that, almost every upgrade in the Nids codex, aside from Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands (in some cases), is terrible/overcosted/useless.

The Entire Tyranid FAQ.

Pouncey wrote:Codex: Sisters of Battle
Problem: The Immolator can only carry 6 models, whereas the minimum squad size of a Battle Sisters Squad is 10 models, and cannot be split up into smaller groups

That's the best you can do for the SOB Codex? How about Celestian Command Squad has a shooty faith power and the ability to take close combat weapons and Celestians have an assaulty power and don't? (In fact if you swapped the faith power, they both might be more worth taking.) Taking vehicles you can't fit in is certainly nothing new as an option and provides sisters Immolators in every slot.

Joey wrote:Creed doesn't have a Close Combat Weapon...fail.

He has two pistols which are one handed weapons. Reading comprehension fail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Problem: So I'm paying another 25pts to give me +D3 attacks? Ok that's not so bad, rerolls from dual scything talons might be better, but I'd be willing to do that. Wait... I always strike at I1 if I do? ARGH. I know it's not like it really matters against MEQ, but I've lost Fexes to lowly Guardsmen because of it.

The models who can take crushing claws strike after guardsmen anyways, don't they? (Fex and Terv)

n0t_u wrote: The roof hatch on the back of the Immolator suddenly being locked as well as it no longer being able to drive at them and burn.

Immolators don't have back hatches. They have a front hatch tho, but so does a Razorback and they can't shoot out the top either.

sfshilo wrote:As for my pet peeve, if you go second the PBS leadership power does not last till the next turn, just that turn.....which is insanely limiting.

Seriously? Does your opponent take a lot of morale tests on their own turn? Is one full player turn of being able to make any unit run away not enough? lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Celtic Strike wrote:

n0t_u wrote: The roof hatch on the back of the Immolator suddenly being locked as well as it no longer being able to drive at them and burn.

Immolators don't have back hatches. They have a front hatch tho, but so does a Razorback and they can't shoot out the top either.

Immolators have two side and the Fleur hatch, same as a sisters rhino.

The models who can take crushing claws strike after guardsmen anyways, don't they? (Fex and Terv)

Fexes get +2 I on the turn they charge, so they'd strike at the same time as Guardsmen.

Holy balls, you're right! I haven't taken my Sisters out in a month or two. Surprised by how quickly I forgot

Sasori wrote:

The models who can take crushing claws strike after guardsmen anyways, don't they? (Fex and Terv)

Fexes get +2 I on the turn they charge, so they'd strike at the same time as Guardsmen.

Not if they have Crushing Claws.

Also:

Toxin Sacs on a Carnifex (and to a lesser extent all other MCs).
Str 9 so pretty much always wounds on a 2+ (~84% chance)
Toxin Sacs means he'd would on a 4+ with re-rolls. (75% chance)

So you pay extra points to have a worse chance of wounding? GREAT SUCCESS!

Imperial guard

Unit: Rough riders

Good: cool fast attack cavalierly unit

Cons: crappy fluff (Space Mongolians?!?!) and silly models.

pretre wrote:

Joey wrote:Creed doesn't have a Close Combat Weapon...fail.

He has two pistols which are one handed weapons. Reading comprehension fail.

...
Trolling or serious?
me-"He doesn't have any close combat weapons"
you-"LOL HE HAS TWO RANGED WEAPONS U MORON"
Creed has no close combat weapon, he cannot attack in close combat.
Re-read his wargear list. He has no close combat weapon, unlike Iron-Hand Straken.

Joey wrote:

pretre wrote:

Joey wrote:Creed doesn't have a Close Combat Weapon...fail.

He has two pistols which are one handed weapons. Reading comprehension fail.

...
Trolling or serious?
me-"He doesn't have any close combat weapons"
you-"LOL HE HAS TWO RANGED WEAPONS U MORON"
Creed has no close combat weapon, he cannot attack in close combat.
Re-read his wargear list. He has no close combat weapon, unlike Iron-Hand Straken.

If he has pistols, he has close combat weapons. Because they're usable in close combat.
And there's no rule saying that you have to have a close combat weapon to attack in close combat.

rigeld2 wrote:

Joey wrote:

pretre wrote:

Joey wrote:Creed doesn't have a Close Combat Weapon...fail.

He has two pistols which are one handed weapons. Reading comprehension fail.

...
Trolling or serious?
me-"He doesn't have any close combat weapons"
you-"LOL HE HAS TWO RANGED WEAPONS U MORON"
Creed has no close combat weapon, he cannot attack in close combat.
Re-read his wargear list. He has no close combat weapon, unlike Iron-Hand Straken.

If he has pistols, he has close combat weapons. Because they're usable in close combat.
And there's no rule saying that you have to have a close combat weapon to attack in close combat.

Having checked the rulebook it seems that "Close Combat Weapons" are in fact pointless in most wargear options unless they come with pistols. Hmm.

rigeld2 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

The models who can take crushing claws strike after guardsmen anyways, don't they? (Fex and Terv)

Fexes get +2 I on the turn they charge, so they'd strike at the same time as Guardsmen.

Not if they have Crushing Claws.

Also:

Toxin Sacs on a Carnifex (and to a lesser extent all other MCs).
Str 9 so pretty much always wounds on a 2+ (~84% chance)
Toxin Sacs means he'd would on a 4+ with re-rolls. (75% chance)

So you pay extra points to have a worse chance of wounding? GREAT SUCCESS!

That was the point of this line of Statements....

Joey wrote:

pretre wrote:

Joey wrote:Creed doesn't have a Close Combat Weapon...fail.

He has two pistols which are one handed weapons. Reading comprehension fail.

...
Trolling or serious?
me-"He doesn't have any close combat weapons"
you-"LOL HE HAS TWO RANGED WEAPONS U MORON"
Creed has no close combat weapon, he cannot attack in close combat.
Re-read his wargear list. He has no close combat weapon, unlike Iron-Hand Straken.

Pistols count as CCWs, dummy. Check page 29 of your BRB if you don't believe me.


EDIT: Ninjas! Ninjas everywhere!

Sasori wrote:That was the point of this line of Statements....

Right, sorry... long day at work and I misread.

I'm not going to be that guy and go on about the entire Tyranid book, but there's a lot of gems in there for this discussion.

They can't bring down spore pods empty, even though any other army with a dedicated transport can deploy it empty (even drop pods).

The armies only IC cannot join a squad in its only dedicated transport, unlike every other army in the game.

Lictors reserve benefit not working while it is still hiding - it worked while hiding last edition, why change it?

Lictors not able to assault the turn they deepstrike, unlike other units with the same deployment type in other armies.

As mentioned, an army almost entirely dedicated to assault has two units with assault grenades, one of which is maximum of I4 the turn it assaults, with an upgrade on top of the assault grenades, otherwise I3 when it assaults, and the other unit can't assault when it arrives, thus rarely gets to assault anyway. Why bother?

The only army in the game with a friendly buff psychic power that counts as a shooting attack.

Lashwhips only counting on base initiative, before abilities that boost it like Banshee masks, unlike other weapons in the game that drop opponents initiative.

Trygon tunnel not being useable until the turn after it deploys, and being able to destroy units following by standing on top of the hole - did they even want this this rule to work at all?

-Loki- wrote:The armies only IC cannot join a squad in its only dedicated transport, unlike every other army in the game.

There's actually 2 ICs - Parasite. But yeah - you're right.

pretre wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Codex: Sisters of Battle
Problem: The Immolator can only carry 6 models, whereas the minimum squad size of a Battle Sisters Squad is 10 models, and cannot be split up into smaller groups

That's the best you can do for the SOB Codex? How about Celestian Command Squad has a shooty faith power and the ability to take close combat weapons and Celestians have an assaulty power and don't? (In fact if you swapped the faith power, they both might be more worth taking.) Taking vehicles you can't fit in is certainly nothing new as an option and provides sisters Immolators in every slot.

Sorry. I was posting in the context of the original post, which was stuff such as stikkbomms on Meganobz - entirely useless. It was the best I could think of, since there's no point in taking a transport vehicle for a unit which could never, EVER fit in it without taking casualties during the game.

Though, I'll admit that the Immolators could fill a role as support vehicles for footsloggers instead of being intended as a transport, and also being a sort of transport to rescue a stranded unit or something.

Actually, I kinda like that idea, and I seem to recall a scene like that in Faith and Fire - though it's been years since I read it, so not sure exactly, but I do remember a column of Sisters vehicles supporting Sisters on foot, with the main character manning the turret on an Immolator for a bit.

On a side note, today I built a turret for an Immolator, as well as a turret for a Sisters Rhino. So now I have 3 Immolator turrets for 2 Immolators, and 2 Rhino turrets for those same 2 Immolators.

Someone explain to me where my third Immolator went. Cause I don't remember ever having one. I have a normal Rhino, but I think it started life as a Space Marine Rhino which I just painted in my Sisters colors after they commandeered it from the Hellfire Marines' garage.

Unless...

Do Exorcists come with the sprue that houses the Immolator turret, Sisters' Rhino turret, and all the Sisters decals and stuffums?

Edit: No dispute on the lack of sense of having a shooty act on an assault unit, and an assault act on a shooty unit.

While there not much I would complain about the Ork codex, there is one thing: meks. Not BIg Meks. Normal ones. Why would I ever want to replace a loota or a burna boy for one?

For what it's worth, Ghazkull also has a grenades on his mega-armor and he also has a powerklaw, thus never needing the damn things.

Tarkand wrote:For what it's worth, Ghazkull also has a grenades on his mega-armor and he also has a powerklaw, thus never needing the damn things.

Actually, come to think of it, the current Ork Codex was released in 4th edition, wasn't it? Toward the end though, and written with 5th in mind.

If so, then the stickbombz make sense, because in 4th, you could opt to just make normal attacks instead of being forced to use any special close combat weapon you might have had. It would be useful, because if you were fighting, say, a squad of Guardsmen or Cultists or something with T3 and weak armor, you could strike either simultaneously or possibly first, and still wound on 2s - S5 and I4 or 5 (can't remember if Nobz have I3 or I4 on their profile) on the charge with Furious Charge, unless that USR was different in 4th - and unless your opponent rolled very well, you'd probably kill nearly as many models.

Good god, the Xmas tree lights are still on... That, or I'm hallucinating from all the gluing I've done today... Made so many damned models that built up in a backlog last year.

The old Ork Choppa rule was pretty stupid, as it suggested that flak armour wouldn't be effected by on while terminator suits get destroyed. It could have just increased the AS by one (e.g. 3+ becomes 4+, 6 gets no save).

rigeld2 wrote:

-Loki- wrote:The armies only IC cannot join a squad in its only dedicated transport, unlike every other army in the game.

There's actually 2 ICs - Parasite. But yeah - you're right.

Aren't tryanid primes IC? And IIRC it can join a squad/.


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Luke_Prowler wrote:While there not much I would complain about the Ork codex, there is one thing: meks. Not BIg Meks. Normal ones. Why would I ever want to replace a loota or a burna boy for one?

That, and the fact that in the Loota/Burna box you HAVE to make a mek. They only give you 4 deffguns and 4 burnas. Srsly GW, wtf?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

-Loki- wrote:The armies only IC cannot join a squad in its only dedicated transport, unlike every other army in the game.

There's actually 2 ICs - Parasite. But yeah - you're right.

Aren't tryanid primes IC? And IIRC it can join a squad/.

Bolded the part you missed.

Pouncey wrote:

Actually, come to think of it, the current Ork Codex was released in 4th edition, wasn't it? Toward the end though, and written with 5th in mind.

If so, then the stickbombz make sense, because in 4th, you could opt to just make normal attacks instead of being forced to use any special close combat weapon you might have had. It would be useful, because if you were fighting, say, a squad of Guardsmen or Cultists or something with T3 and weak armor, you could strike either simultaneously or possibly first, and still wound on 2s - S5 and I4 or 5 (can't remember if Nobz have I3 or I4 on their profile) on the charge with Furious Charge, unless that USR was different in 4th - and unless your opponent rolled very well, you'd probably kill nearly as many models.

Good god, the Xmas tree lights are still on... That, or I'm hallucinating from all the gluing I've done today... Made so many damned models that built up in a backlog last year.

This. It IS a 4th edition Codex, after all. Also, if you want to remain locked in combat with a walker for one more turn, you can still use the stikkbommz instead of the Klaw to hit at S4.

Kodanshi wrote:Space Marines Codex

How Space Marines ‘advance’ to Tactical Squads only after campaigning successfully as a part of other units, such as Devastator. So you go from Scout to Devastator or Assault to Tactical. Imagine that:

“Brother Jim, you have served faithfully in the Devastators and honed your skills of long–range destruction. In order to put your long range combat experience to good use, take this chainsword and bolt pistol and go get ’em!”

A little off-topic but they aren't trusted with the heavy weapons unless they show proficiency enough to warrant them being a more long-term Devastator... Recruits are initially just stuck in the squad with a bolter to get them used to combat (from a safer position). Once they've grown some iron balls they are chucked into close-combat to err... well... grow the balls even larger?

rigeld2 wrote:Toxin Sacs on a Carnifex (and to a lesser extent all other MCs).
Str 9 so pretty much always wounds on a 2+ (~84% chance)
Toxin Sacs means he'd would on a 4+ with re-rolls. (75% chance)

So you pay extra points to have a worse chance of wounding? GREAT SUCCESS!

I missed that when going through the ’dex. That’s pretty hilariously bad!

odorofdeath wrote:Ymgarl Genestealers using the Dormant rule always strike at Initiative 1 in in the following Assault phase, as they lack grenades. Why Tyranids, the best CC army in the game, only has access 2 units with Assault grenades, I do not know.

Looking through my copy of the ’Nid ’dex and I cannot see this at all. Where do I find this? Or did this crop up in an F.A.Q?

ZOMBIE CAT wrote:Imperial guard

Unit: Rough riders

Good: cool fast attack cavalierly unit

Cons: crappy fluff (Space Mongolians?!?!) and silly models.

When you think of Rough Riders, think of Krieg Death Riders. Makes it a lot, lot better.

Kodanshi wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:Ymgarl Genestealers using the Dormant rule always strike at Initiative 1 in in the following Assault phase, as they lack grenades. Why Tyranids, the best CC army in the game, only has access 2 units with Assault grenades, I do not know.

Looking through my copy of the ’Nid ’dex and I cannot see this at all. Where do I find this? Or did this crop up in an F.A.Q?

They deploy inside a terrain peice. So if they assault a unit from the terrain, they count as moving through terrain, thus strike at I1 in the assault - assaulting through cover.

However, since they can move when they arrive, they can just move out of the terrain before assaulting, so I don't know why he's complaining. If you're assaulting from the terrain, you're essentially punching yourself in the face for no reason.

Oh of course. Right, terrain. Yes. I need to read more closely and cross–reference with the rules. Thanks .

On topic but directed at a different poster:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Codex: Tyranids (not exactly my favourite but whatevs)

Unit: Carnifex (don't get me started)

Rule: Crushing Claws

Problem: So I'm paying another 25pts to give me +D3 attacks? Ok that's not so bad, rerolls from dual scything talons might be better, but I'd be willing to do that. Wait... I always strike at I1 if I do? ARGH.

Don’t Carnifexes start with Initiative 1 anyway?!

 

I can't believe I forgot to mention Nork Deddog.

Paying an extremely large amount of points (where you could get instead, another colonel) for a high toughness bodyguard model for your colonel.

Oh wait, majority toughness rules...

Yes, but gain +2I on the charge and another +1 if they take FC

Poison on S5 MCs does make sense, as your most common opponent is T4. 75% > 66%, especially if you then pass that benefit onto units near you

The rules for Tau Ethereals. Especially that Space Pope.

Codex: Dark Eldar wrote:Shuriken Pistols :"See the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook".

What possible reason did Games Workshop have to do this?

I think its rather odd that half of Njal Stormcallers bonus abilities don't do anything if you go second.

pretre wrote:

Celtic Strike wrote:

n0t_u wrote: The roof hatch on the back of the Immolator suddenly being locked as well as it no longer being able to drive at them and burn.

Immolators don't have back hatches. They have a front hatch tho, but so does a Razorback and they can't shoot out the top either.

Immolators have two side and the Fleur hatch, same as a sisters rhino.

Sisters used to be able to fire out of the roof hatch of the immolator - it counted as a fire point. Thanks to the new "codex" they cannot.

OT I also think its silly how SM scout bikers have shotguns which they never need - as they are relentless with TL boltguns, or RF astartes GL, which are always better than a shotgun.

More Tyranid stuff...the ability to take cover saves against the Doom of Malan'Tai's ability. It sucks your soul out of your body with psychic energy. Luckily, you stand a decent chance of surviving if you stand behind a fence.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, but gain +2I on the charge and another +1 if they take FC

Poison on S5 MCs does make sense, as your most common opponent is T4. 75% > 66%, especially if you then pass that benefit onto units near you

Yes - 4+ Poison on Tervigons makes sense. 4+ poison on basically any other TMC is almost useless - you have a better chance of wounding T7 and T8 models, but a worse chance at literally anything else.
And since the example I brought up was Carnifex's taking the Toxin Sacs, and they're STR9 without FC... you lose effectiveness against eveyrthing but C'Tan shards and Wraithlords (I think those are the only things above T6).
It's dumb. If anything it should be a free option on STR6 MCs and above.

Codex: Dark Eldar

Vect's Dias of Destruction doesn't have Aerial Assault, and has no access to flickerfields or night sheilds...

WHY???

Siphen wrote:More Tyranid stuff...the ability to take cover saves against the Doom of Malan'Tai's ability. It sucks your soul out of your body with psychic energy. Luckily, you stand a decent chance of surviving if you stand behind a fence.

This is my favorite. lmao.

Tau vespids.

Assault 1 12 inch weapons, crap armor, no rending, no grenades.

GW why you make an assault unit so bad in assault!

Does relentless also let you assault after you shoot? If not then the shotgun would be helpful. But even if not practical, it has a nice "rule of cool" thing going for it.

Space Wolf Codex

Wolf Scouts that are elite and don't get camo cloaks. Come on now the noobs can get them but we can't?

Valkyrie wrote:

Codex: Dark Eldar wrote:Shuriken Pistols :"See the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook".

What possible reason did Games Workshop have to do this?

They have FAQ'ed it, just to let you know.

Also, Mandrakes.

Why? No upgrades, a 5++ as their only save, too many points and models that look like they belong in a Manga Book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SwiftLord14 wrote:Space Wolf Codex

Wolf Scouts that are elite and don't get camo cloaks. Come on now the noobs can get them but we can't?

Same as DA, really.

Teln wrote:When Space Wolves want to use their Wolf Standards, they either have to declare it in the Shooting phase or wait until the NEXT assault phase to activate them, instead of the CURRENT assault phase!

Does it say the START of the Shooting Phase? Gray Knights have to cast Quicksilver in the Movement Phase. Guess you better decide before the Assault phase what you are going to do.

Siphen wrote:More Tyranid stuff...the ability to take cover saves against the Doom of Malan'Tai's ability. It sucks your soul out of your body with psychic energy. Luckily, you stand a decent chance of surviving if you stand behind a fence.

Again, I’m not too sure about the process of various saves, so forgive my asking this, but doesn’t the ability force units to take a Leadership test and disallow armour saves? I would have thought cover save cannot protect against a Leadership test roll…

Warboss Gutrip wrote:Codex: Dark Eldar

Vect's Dias of Destruction doesn't have Aerial Assault, and has no access to flickerfields or night sheilds...

WHY???

This, I relate to. You've essentially bought about a Ravager and 2 Raiders with Flickerfields, which can fire more shots than than Dias and is generally more survivable.

It's essentially a Ravager that has a transport capacity, can only fire one shot whilst moving at Cruising speed and has armour 13 with no upgrades.

Vlad Von Carstein, until the new Army book, neglected to wear armour.

Codex: Necrons 2011

Unit: Tomb Stalker

Problem: It's not there.

Zathras wrote:Codex: Necrons 2011

Unit: Tomb Stalker

Problem: It's not there.

Though irritating, that is understandable.
FW just released it like a year ago. Adapting to a codex, and therefore into plastic, would have been a bit soon.

Kodanshi wrote:

Too right!

Kodanshi wrote:

Siphen wrote:More Tyranid stuff...the ability to take cover saves against the Doom of Malan'Tai's ability. It sucks your soul out of your body with psychic energy. Luckily, you stand a decent chance of surviving if you stand behind a fence.

Again, I’m not too sure about the process of various saves, so forgive my asking this, but doesn’t the ability force units to take a Leadership test and disallow armour saves? I would have thought cover save cannot protect against a Leadership test roll…

You take wounds from the LDR roll, and take saves against wounds.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Zathras wrote:Codex: Necrons 2011

Unit: Tomb Stalker

Problem: It's not there.

Though irritating, that is understandable.
FW just released it like a year ago. Adapting to a codex, and therefore into plastic, would have been a bit soon.

Yeah I know....hopefully we'll see a plastic one somewhere down the road.

Zathras wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Zathras wrote:Codex: Necrons 2011

Unit: Tomb Stalker

Problem: It's not there.

Though irritating, that is understandable.
FW just released it like a year ago. Adapting to a codex, and therefore into plastic, would have been a bit soon.

Yeah I know....hopefully we'll see a plastic one somewhere down the road.

Give it the next edition. That should hopefully do it.

rigeld2 wrote:

Kodanshi wrote:

Siphen wrote:More Tyranid stuff...the ability to take cover saves against the Doom of Malan'Tai's ability. It sucks your soul out of your body with psychic energy. Luckily, you stand a decent chance of surviving if you stand behind a fence.

Again, I’m not too sure about the process of various saves, so forgive my asking this, but doesn’t the ability force units to take a Leadership test and disallow armour saves? I would have thought cover save cannot protect against a Leadership test roll…

You take wounds from the LDR roll, and take saves against wounds.

That’s so obvious, why did I not see that?! I think the fact it said Leadership Test threw me. Silly me…

Cheers for that!

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Teln wrote:When Space Wolves want to use their Wolf Standards, they either have to declare it in the Shooting phase or wait until the NEXT assault phase to activate them, instead of the CURRENT assault phase!

Does it say the START of the Shooting Phase? Gray Knights have to cast Quicksilver in the Movement Phase. Guess you better decide before the Assault phase what you are going to do.

All it says is "Once per game a unit that includes a wolf standard may [activate it]. For the duration of the next assault phase, all models in the unit may reroll any dice rolls of a 1." Deciding ahead of time is an inconvenience, because it means that either Grey Hunters have to charge when they're better off Rapid Firing and taking the charge, or risk wasting the standard and praying that the enemy general is dumb enough to charge into a unit with an active standard.

Sasori wrote:The Entire Tyranid FAQ.

Not the entire Tyranid FAQ. They did get Shield Wall correct wich people were getting wrong.

Codex Space Marines

Rule-Bolster Defenses-Techamrine and Master of the Forge rule, possessed by Lysander

" Each Techmarine can repair 1 ruin in your deployment zone. It grants +1 to cover saves (so 4+ becomes 3+)"


Problem-Lysander and MotF are not TECK MARHEENS! And some rules lawyering :bleeping RAW master won't let you repair stuff or improve your ruins.

Teln wrote:

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Teln wrote:When Space Wolves want to use their Wolf Standards, they either have to declare it in the Shooting phase or wait until the NEXT assault phase to activate them, instead of the CURRENT assault phase!

Does it say the START of the Shooting Phase? Gray Knights have to cast Quicksilver in the Movement Phase. Guess you better decide before the Assault phase what you are going to do.

All it says is "Once per game a unit that includes a wolf standard may [activate it]. For the duration of the next assault phase, all models in the unit may reroll any dice rolls of a 1." Deciding ahead of time is an inconvenience, because it means that either Grey Hunters have to charge when they're better off Rapid Firing and taking the charge, or risk wasting the standard and praying that the enemy general is dumb enough to charge into a unit with an active standard.

Maybe I am just completely dense, but I really can't figure out what the problem is. It is a standard that makes you better in assault and all you have to do is activate it before your assault phase? So couldn't you just shoot at what you want to shoot and make activating the standard your last action in your shooting phase, then charge and get the benefit of the banner. Or am I just not getting it?

If he fires his bolters he can't charge.

Deadshot wrote:If he fires his bolters he can't charge.

Don't they get pistols?

Deadshot wrote:Codex Space Marines

Rule-Bolster Defenses-Techamrine and Master of the Forge rule, possessed by Lysander

" Each Techmarine can repair 1 ruin in your deployment zone. It grants +1 to cover saves (so 4+ becomes 3+)"


Problem-Lysander and MotF are not TECK MARHEENS! And some rules lawyering :bleeping RAW master won't let you repair stuff or improve your ruins.

I am sorry, but that has to be the silliest interpretation of rules so far. MotF is clearly a Tech-Marine since he is the most senior of Tech-Marines. So unless your RAW master can show you where a Tech-Marine looses his Tech-Marine status by being the most senior Tech-Marine.

Of course my personal preference would be to simply not play anybody like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshot wrote:If he fires his bolters he can't charge.

But that has nothing to do with the banner. If he fires the Bolter he could not charge with or without the banner.

From what it looks like nothing in the banner says "activate in the start of your shooting phase". So conduct your shooting phase like any other phase, but if you want to charge be sure you activate the banner at the END of your shooting phase.

Tau Codex:

When the Etherial dies, check LD for all Tau units. If they lose, they run. If they pass, they get better at CC. (Preferred enemy)

As a Shas'la rises through the ranks, he gets better at CC (something Tau find distasteful and barbaric), but not at shooting. Ui= +1 A. Vre= +1 WS +1 I. El= +1BS (Yay! At last!) and +1A.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:Codex: Dark Eldar

Vect's Dias of Destruction doesn't have Aerial Assault, and has no access to flickerfields or night sheilds...

WHY???

DAIS! FORE THE LOVE OF GOD, DAIS, NOT "DIAS".

Now, with that pet peeve out of my system: Target Priority Tests still applying for Black Templars in an edition where you have no way of knowing what it does. The feth?

d-usa wrote:

Deadshot wrote:If he fires his bolters he can't charge.

But that has nothing to do with the banner. If he fires the Bolter he could not charge with or without the banner.

From what it looks like nothing in the banner says "activate in the start of your shooting phase". So conduct your shooting phase like any other phase, but if you want to charge be sure you activate the banner at the END of your shooting phase.

Let me say again that the problem is that it's optimal for Grey Hunters to shoot with bolters and receive the charge, because on average that will maximize the number of wounds dealt. The damage dealt by bolt pistols just doesn't make up for the lost bolter round. I can show you the mathammer if you like. Plus, if the Grey Hunters wind up taking an unexpected charge, they have to survive at least one round of combat and potentially take casualties before gaining any benefit.

I just thought of an even more stupid thing in C:SW--Why don't Blood Claws get wolf standards? They're supposed to be our Assault Squads, and since they don't get bolters they don't have to worry about the problems that GH have with it. If they had standards, they might actually be worth taking.

If it says once per game, could you not activate in your opponents turn?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Warboss Gutrip wrote:Codex: Dark Eldar

Vect's Dias of Destruction doesn't have Aerial Assault, and has no access to flickerfields or night sheilds...

WHY???

DAIS! FORE THE LOVE OF GOD, DAIS, NOT "DIAS".

Now, with that pet peeve out of my system: Target Priority Tests still applying for Black Templars in an edition where you have no way of knowing what it does. The feth?

Didn't they FAQ that?
Anyway, the solution is simple ignore it, and wait for the new dex (and hope you get the holy hand grenade)

Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Chaos Spawn

d-usa wrote:If it says once per game, could you not activate in your opponents turn?

Goody, now I get to watch my opponents' units stand still and make silly faces instead of charging. Do you hear that noise? It's the points I spent on the standard going down the drain.

Teln wrote:

d-usa wrote:If it says once per game, could you not activate in your opponents turn?

Goody, now I get to watch my opponents' units stand still and make silly faces instead of charging. Do you hear that noise? It's the points I spent on the standard going down the drain.

If it were only that easy to stop your opponent from charging, it would be well worth the 10 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, you can activate it before any assault phase.

In the Black Templars codex there is an illustration of a Dreadnought with two DCCW's being violent, but that is not an option in the rules.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Warboss Gutrip wrote:Codex: Dark Eldar

Vect's Dias of Destruction doesn't have Aerial Assault, and has no access to flickerfields or night sheilds...

WHY???

DAIS! FORE THE LOVE OF GOD, DAIS, NOT "DIAS".

Now, with that pet peeve out of my system: Target Priority Tests still applying for Black Templars in an edition where you have no way of knowing what it does. The feth?

Didn't they FAQ that?
Anyway, the solution is simple ignore it, and wait for the new dex (and hope you get the holy hand grenade)

Yes, they FAQ'd it. Unfortunately, that's why we still have Target Priority Tests. Someone at GW appearently thought it had to be FAQ'd in complete disregard to what's in the BRB.

Teln wrote:

d-usa wrote:If it says once per game, could you not activate in your opponents turn?

Goody, now I get to watch my opponents' units stand still and make silly faces instead of charging. Do you hear that noise? It's the points I spent on the standard going down the drain.

Aww diddums, 10 points to not be charged for a turn? And you see that as "points down the drain"? Really? So you get to shoot the unit that was about to charge you and then assault them yourself, and thats not worth 10 points? Really?

Sorry, having to activate it in the shooting phase is about the only downside your entire codex has. If you want you can activate the standard in the assault phase, but GH cost 20 points now, how much they should have cost to begin with. Better?

Lelith Hesperax has no Hit&Run. The very best wych of the DE, but she cannot shake off a Fire Warrior...

For tau

All ethereals grant preferred enemy to the army when they die...Why would it be important to give preferred enemy to an army that only shoots!?

d-usa wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Codex Space Marines

Rule-Bolster Defenses-Techamrine and Master of the Forge rule, possessed by Lysander

" Each Techmarine can repair 1 ruin in your deployment zone. It grants +1 to cover saves (so 4+ becomes 3+)"


Problem-Lysander and MotF are not TECK MARHEENS! And some rules lawyering :bleeping RAW master won't let you repair stuff or improve your ruins.

I am sorry, but that has to be the silliest interpretation of rules so far. MotF is clearly a Tech-Marine since he is the most senior of Tech-Marines. So unless your RAW master can show you where a Tech-Marine looses his Tech-Marine status by being the most senior Tech-Marine.

Of course my personal preference would be to simply not play anybody like that.

He claims that a Master of the Forge is not a Techmarine, he is a MotF. RAW only Techies can use it.

I wouldn't have played him either but I was desperate for a game.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshot wrote:If he fires his bolters he can't charge.

But that has nothing to do with the banner. If he fires the Bolter he could not charge with or without the banner.

From what it looks like nothing in the banner says "activate in the start of your shooting phase". So conduct your shooting phase like any other phase, but if you want to charge be sure you activate the banner at the END of your shooting phase.

The question you asked was why can't they fire, activate the banner and then charge. They can't assault after firing RF weapopns, so they would waste it. Other than that they coiuld fire their pistols, which would be ineffecient. Or they could hope someone is dumb enoigh to charge them.

@Tweln

Blood Claws are not assault squads. Blood Claws=Scouts in other chapters. Wolf Scouts=Sternguard in other chapters. And even if they are CC specialists, you don't trust an important object like the banner to a scout.

Codex:CSM .

- Little Timmy decides the lobotomised chainsaw wielding loons of Khorne are his bag . Now , who doesn't want a Deamon Prince to lead them on a rampage of hate filled Sunday afternoon violence ? Now , lets tool him up to be dead killy ! Wings Yes/No . Erm , done , moving swiftly on .
- Lesser Deamon's , now with feth all allegiance to any god .
- Defilers contain a bound Deamon . A FURY !
- Much like Superman in his second movie , when a Bezerker muscles , kills and bullies his way into leading a warband , he gives up his power of angry jogging and his feth you attitude , for love .
- My Aspiring Sorcerer costs how much ? WWRRRYYY ?

On a more general note , Promeuthium is/was noted as being able to ignite when in contact with air . Cool , but why do all Imperial flamers have a pilot light ?

Evil_Toast wrote:On a more general note , Promeuthium is/was noted as being able to ignite when in contact with air . Cool , but why do all Imperial flamers have a pilot light ?

Redundancy and reliability? Just because something CAN ignite when in contact with air doesn't mean it has to, especially considering the various different planets the IoM fights on.

AtoMaki wrote:Lelith Hesperax has no Hit&Run. The very best wych of the DE, but she cannot shake off a Fire Warrior...

"K, im off to do important stuff, stay right there and you might survive" "NO!"

Codex Tyranids: Old One Eye

He has Crushing Claws, but they also give him the "Living Battering Ram Rule". why even give him LBR because CC will always cause him to attack at I 1.

to me this is just plain incompetence of the Writer, the Editor and everyone else at GW since they didn't point this out to correct it.

Oh well there needed to be a reason to jack up the price on OOE. So having LBR is a reason for the high cost of him. Sadly he can't ever use it.

Deadshot wrote:The question you asked was why can't they fire, activate the banner and then charge. They can't assault after firing RF weapopns, so they would waste it. Other than that they coiuld fire their pistols, which would be ineffecient. Or they could hope someone is dumb enoigh to charge them.

If you are looking at strict dice throwing, maybe it is not worth the 10 points to use as written. If you are looking at the tactical value of getting up to 12" of extra movement and wiping out an opponent's unit, maybe it is. There are many times I don't shoot to insure I get the 'free' charge movement. Perhaps you could inform us of a more efficient way to spend 10 points than on a unit that can fire 1 pistol shot and and get 2 extra attacks on the charge?

Davor wrote:Codex Tyranids: Old One Eye

He has Crushing Claws, but they also give him the "Living Battering Ram Rule". why even give him LBR because CC will always cause him to attack at I 1.

to me this is just plain incompetence of the Writer, the Editor and everyone else at GW since they didn't point this out to correct it.

Oh well there needed to be a reason to jack up the price on OOE. So having LBR is a reason for the high cost of him. Sadly he can't ever use it.

That really IS incredibly stupid! Also, the FAQ has nothing about this in it!

Kodanshi wrote:

Davor wrote:Codex Tyranids: Old One Eye

He has Crushing Claws, but they also give him the "Living Battering Ram Rule". why even give him LBR because CC will always cause him to attack at I 1.

to me this is just plain incompetence of the Writer, the Editor and everyone else at GW since they didn't point this out to correct it.

Oh well there needed to be a reason to jack up the price on OOE. So having LBR is a reason for the high cost of him. Sadly he can't ever use it.

That really IS incredibly stupid! Also, the FAQ has nothing about this in it!

Because he's a carnifex and all carnis have LBR...? Don't over think it.

Like when the Brotherhood Champion has to pay for Digital Weapons to reroll 1 roll to wound in CC per turn. MNeanwhile, his sword lets him do that with all attacks as standrad. Good job Ward! Round of applause for the man!

/sarcasm.

Deadshot wrote:Like when the Brotherhood Champion has to pay for Digital Weapons to reroll 1 roll to wound in CC per turn. MNeanwhile, his sword lets him do that with all attacks as standrad. Good job Ward! Round of applause for the man!

/sarcasm.

Welcome to page 1. Also, nothing is forcing him to pay for them.

I know, but that is redundancy and a literal waste of points. Not like when you have a squad with AC standard and you want a HB. No this is a literal waste.

Deadshot wrote:Like when the Brotherhood Champion has to pay for Digital Weapons to reroll 1 roll to wound in CC per turn. MNeanwhile, his sword lets him do that with all attacks as standrad. Good job Ward! Round of applause for the man!

/sarcasm.

Don't feel bad, ork Zapp guns are a 15 point upgrade to Kannons, and they are......silent pause

WORSE THAN KANNONS!

Not really. They can be better AT, but are not Anit Infantryn orientated. Kannons are more of an all rouinder, the Lobba is Antio Horde and the Zzapper is potential AT, potentially useless, or potentially AT with a dead grot.

Codex: Daemons.

The dudes who are litterly the warp made manifest and live there and wisper into the minds of mortals and all that...
Have no psychic abilities or defenses of ANY kind!

Seriously GW? WTF kind of bad joke is this?!

Oh, and of corse, let's design an almost purely assault-based army with almost no shooting to speak of, and make the ENTIRE ARMY 'Deep Strike' into play!



Can we please have a real codex now GW?!

Another one from Codex Space Wolves:

Terminator Armour: "Though the Terminators of other Space Marines Chapters often teleport straight into battle, Space Wolves have a deep mistrust of such arcane tactics and prefer to fight with their feet on solid ground, just as Russ intended."

So why are they allowed Drop Pods, and why is there a Drop Pod in the freaking Battleforce?

StoneRaizer wrote:Another one from Codex Space Wolves:

Terminator Armour: "Though the Terminators of other Space Marines Chapters often teleport straight into battle, Space Wolves have a deep mistrust of such arcane tactics and prefer to fight with their feet on solid ground, just as Russ intended."

So why are they allowed Drop Pods, and why is there a Drop Pod in the freaking Battleforce?

You do realize that dropping in a pod and being magically teleported are completely different right, in just about every way? Drop pod is just another conveyance for soldiers that are used to be transported in space. the other is a technology that no one really understands and is quite risky. Space wolves being superstitious see one as hokum, the other as a vehicle.

They have to get their feet on the ground somehow, they just prefer getting them on the ground without turning into tiny particles.

Bones knows what they are feeling.

Andrew1975 wrote:

StoneRaizer wrote:Another one from Codex Space Wolves:

Terminator Armour: "Though the Terminators of other Space Marines Chapters often teleport straight into battle, Space Wolves have a deep mistrust of such arcane tactics and prefer to fight with their feet on solid ground, just as Russ intended."

So why are they allowed Drop Pods, and why is there a Drop Pod in the freaking Battleforce?

You do realize that dropping in a pod and being magically teleported are completely different right, in just about every way? Drop pod is just another conveyance for soldiers that are used to be transported in space. the other is a technology that no one really understands and is quite risky. Space wolves being superstitious see one as hokum, the other as a vehicle.

Suppose that makes sense now that you put it that way. Thanks.

So why would I take Terminator armor If i could get the same thing for cheaper for my Captain and my Chapter Master and still move around faster?
*Facepalm*

Vanguard
Absolutely useless they have all these weapons but it costs 640 pts to give them all powerfists *Facepalm*

I'm surprised this one hasn't come up yet.

Codex: Orks

Unit: Lootas/Flash Gitz

Lootas are a unit of stationary boyz who stand in cover and fire their Heavy, strength 7 guns at 48".
Flash Gitz are a unit of plunderers who like to run up the field right alongside their close combat-oriented boyz, firing Assault guns with strength 5 and 24" range.

Lootas are an Elite choice. Flash Gitz fall under Heavy Support. Methinks GW had a bit of derping at this decision.

Asherian Command wrote:Vanguard
Absolutely useless they have all these weapons but it costs 640 pts to give them all powerfists *Facepalm*

That is one painful facepalm...

Locclo wrote:I'm surprised this one hasn't come up yet.

Codex: Orks

Unit: Lootas/Flash Gitz

Lootas are a unit of stationary boyz who stand in cover and fire their Heavy, strength 7 guns at 48".
Flash Gitz are a unit of plunderers who like to run up the field right alongside their close combat-oriented boyz, firing Assault guns with strength 5 and 24" range.

Lootas are an Elite choice. Flash Gitz fall under Heavy Support. Methinks GW had a bit of derping at this decision.

Alternatively, the Codex Author may have decided to place them in their respective categories to synergize better with certain builds - for example, you can take 3 units of Lootas, and 3 units of Killa Kanz, which work well with lots of footslogging Boyz and a KFF Big Mek or two to make a nice Kan Wall list.

I dunno.

The reason for TDA vs Artificer and bike/Jump Pack is so he can gire a Plasma gun on the move.

Deadshot wrote:Not really. They can be better AT, but are not Anit Infantryn orientated. Kannons are more of an all rouinder, the Lobba is Antio Horde and the Zzapper is potential AT, potentially useless, or potentially AT with a dead grot.

Except for a 2% chance to penetrate AV 14, a Zzap gun is strictly worse at anti-tank than a kannon. There is no reason to ever field a zzap gun, other than toasting gretchin

But I don't think this is what the OP was asking for. True rule screw-ups:

- Trukks do not leave craters when exploding, buggies do.
- Stikk bomm chuckas give stikkbomms to gretchin charging out of a vehicle, enabling them to take down vehicles.
- A mek with a KMB has a higher chance to kill himself than to kill a terminator.
- KMBs on both buggies and koptaz are not twin-linked. Twin-linked rokkits on either cost less points than the KMB.
- Koptaz have hit&run and I2.
- Meganobz can't get a Waagh! Banner, Boss Pole or Dok, even though they are the strongest and richest nobz per fluff.
- Burnaz, lootaz and tank bustas can not get a dedicated transport, despite being heavily represented in Evil Sunz clans and the Kult of Speed.
- You are forced to buy a third runtherd only if you field all 30 gretchin, but not if you field 29.
- A weird boy can prevent you from calling Thrakka's Waagh!, potentially defeating the whole point of fielding Thrakka in the first place.
- Weird boyz have energy weapons if they roll one of the three shooting attacks while locked in combat. During your shooting phase. If your opponent was nice enough to not allocate any wounds to a HQ character with the combat abilities of a nob without gear, that might actually happen.
- Unlike the rage USR, dok grotznik forces every single model of his unit to each move towards the closest enemy. This can cause the unit to be strung out to the limits of coherency and not move at all.
- Both the SAG and the KFF have different effects for "units" and "vehicles". It seems that "unit" was supposed to mean "non-vehicle units", but GW FAQed it otherwise.
- Thus, rolling 6,6 and hitting a vehicle with a SAG will cause it to be removed from the game and take a penetrating hit.

Space Wolf Codex

Sagas

It goes on to give all these conditions for them.
What happens if the conditions aren't met?
Absolutely Nothing!

What's the point?

Asherian Command wrote:Vanguard
Absolutely useless they have all these weapons but it costs 640 pts to give them all powerfists *Facepalm*

Maybe they would be better if you didn't give them all power fists


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Space Wolf Codex

Sagas

It goes on to give all these conditions for them.
What happens if the conditions aren't met?
Absolutely Nothing!

What's the point?

It's a fun gameplay point for friendly/narrative gaming. Fulfilling oaths can feel, well, fulfilling and epic.

Jidmah - - Koptaz have hit&run and I2.

4th edition codex. Note the lack of a requirement to take a test to H&R back then.

I had a Deffkopta with Cybork assault some Long Fangs once, Hit and Run after their assault phase, assault again, hit and run again, and assault a third time to wipe the squad. I know that is statistically not likely, but it was great when it happened.

Imperial Guard

Mogul Khamir*- Any unit of Rough Riders he joins gives them the Rage USR.

He would be completely worthwhile if not for that stupid USR. A good counter charging unit upgrade RUINED.


Imperial Guard

Infantry Sergeant/Officer Loadout

They can't take a lasgun. Jaw-droppingly non-sensical mistake in the entire guard Codex.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:I had a Deffkopta with Cybork assault some Long Fangs once, Hit and Run after their assault phase, assault again, hit and run again, and assault a third time to wipe the squad. I know that is statistically not likely, but it was great when it happened.

Deffkoptas would be awesome if their hit and run rule ACTUALLY FRIGGIN WORKED!. It just proves bad proofreading and bad play testing of the rules. It's obvious to even someone as new to the game as myself that this rule was written by someone who was drunk and doesn't play orks. It was subsequently tested by people that don't know how to read. It was then published by someone who probably has never seen a deffkopta.

Jidmah the Mek +KMB thing is hilarious. I played zogwort on saturday-talk about another broken Ork entry

Grots R OP wrote:Deffkoptas would be awesome if their hit and run rule ACTUALLY FRIGGIN WORKED!. It just proves bad proofreading and bad play testing of the rules. It's obvious to even someone as new to the game as myself that this rule was written by someone who was drunk and doesn't play orks.

Read back up oh I don't know like 3 posts and see that this has already been addressed. 4th edition codex. H&R didn't used to require an initiative test. Keep on raging against the man!

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Llhaeman.

Why? She only upgrades one weapon for the Archon, and 5pts could get a Venom Blade, which does exactly the same in CC for a lower price.

Well they also have their own poisoned attacks as well. That upgrade of the archon's attack isn't the *only* thing that the Llhaeman does.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

McNinja wrote: No. In the modern day military, you train for both, and if you show an aptitude for shooting, you can opt to be a sniper. You don't train as a sniper then learn how to be a Marine.

The only problem with this statement is that GW has regularly shown a complete disregard for how the real world works. Who cares how it works in the modern military? This 40k not the modern military.

Same way that heavy weapons can't sit back and provide support fire for the rest of their squad, unlike their real world counterparts where they are specificially implemented for that purpose. The real world just doesn't enter into the equation.

Skriker

pretre wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:Deffkoptas would be awesome if their hit and run rule ACTUALLY FRIGGIN WORKED!. It just proves bad proofreading and bad play testing of the rules. It's obvious to even someone as new to the game as myself that this rule was written by someone who was drunk and doesn't play orks.

Read back up oh I don't know like 3 posts and see that this has already been addressed. 4th edition codex. H&R didn't used to require an initiative test. Keep on raging against the man!

RAWWWRRRR!!! Yeah I saw your post, part of me says "Oh well I can see how that happened", the other part of me says "How does something like this get through a professional literature/editing/gaming company?" I mean if your Job was to do nothing but sit and read the Ork codex, wouldn't you eventually figure this out? that's the part that kills me, IT ACTUALLY IS someone's job to read these rules and test them. And they can't do it! And it's not like it's just one entry, it's every other friggin page in the Ork Dex. Christ I write software for a living, if I have a single mistake in one line of code the frigging program doesn't work at all. These guys can't play test and proof read one damn book.

As far as the issue being addressed, I don't feel like it is as an Ork player. Addressing the issue would be FAQing it or fixing it or hiring people that can read. No offense, but you explaining how the error happened, isn't addrssing it - it's making excuses for incompetency.

My favorite is the chaos space marine codex:

20+ years of awesomely cool back story for 4 potent chaos powers with their own pantheons of daemons with their own flavor and character only to have them reduced to: generic greater daemons and lesser daemons and beasts can be used as other generic lesser daemons. It no longer matters in the least which daemons you pick since they are all exactly the same. BOR-ING!!

Then at roughly the same time come out with an awesome concept for a Daemon only list that maps well to both WFB and W40k and make it wholly incompatible with the existing Chaos Space Marine codex.

I figured that things were limited in the main book because the Chaos Daemons book was being done. Imagine my surprise when nothing changed.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grots R OP wrote:Christ I write software for a living, if I have a single mistake in one line of code the frigging program doesn't work at all. These guys can't play test and proof read one damn book.

Often in software coding there are QA and testing professionals that help to keep you honest with your coding too, but if they don't do their job the software doesn't work right either.

I think part of the problem with these game editors is that they know what they *meant* when they wrote the rules so even if the rule doesn't clearly say that, that is what they get from it. Then they can't understand why people don't get the rule. Also add in the annoyance of spellchecker editing and the problem just gets worse.

Skriker

Grots R OP wrote:

pretre wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:Deffkoptas would be awesome if their hit and run rule ACTUALLY FRIGGIN WORKED!. It just proves bad proofreading and bad play testing of the rules. It's obvious to even someone as new to the game as myself that this rule was written by someone who was drunk and doesn't play orks.

Read back up oh I don't know like 3 posts and see that this has already been addressed. 4th edition codex. H&R didn't used to require an initiative test. Keep on raging against the man!

RAWWWRRRR!!! Yeah I saw your post, part of me says "Oh well I can see how that happened", the other part of me says "How does something like this get through a professional literature/editing/gaming company?" I mean if your Job was to do nothing but sit and read the Ork codex, wouldn't you eventually figure this out? that's the part that kills me, IT ACTUALLY IS someone's job to read these rules and test them. And they can't do it! And it's not like it's just one entry, it's every other friggin page in the Ork Dex. Christ I write software for a living, if I have a single mistake in one line of code the frigging program doesn't work at all. These guys can't play test and proof read one damn book.

As far as the issue being addressed, I don't feel like it is as an Ork player. Addressing the issue would be FAQing it or fixing it or hiring people that can read. No offense, but you explaining how the error happened, isn't addrssing it - it's making excuses for incompetency.

But... It's not an error. It's a rule given to them during an older version of the core rules, which in the current version, happens to be not-so-stellar when all things are considered.

It's no more an error than Stikkbomms on Meganobz is.

Skriker wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Llhaeman.

Why? She only upgrades one weapon for the Archon, and 5pts could get a Venom Blade, which does exactly the same in CC for a lower price.

Well they also have their own poisoned attacks as well. That upgrade of the archon's attack isn't the *only* thing that the Llhaeman does.

Yes, but there are far better things to spend 10 points on than a slightly upgraded Syrabite. As in, I don't know, Ghostplate or Combat Drugs?

Deadshot wrote:Not really. They can be better AT, but are not Anit Infantryn orientated. Kannons are more of an all rouinder, the Lobba is Antio Horde and the Zzapper is potential AT, potentially useless, or potentially AT with a dead grot.

Zapp Gunn is another example of bad editing again. See Zapp guns used to auto hit, and if they auto hit they can be more effective, as is they are not better than Kannons.

Fire each gun 10 times at BS3.

Both will yield 5 hits on Avg.

Kannon will always be str 8.

Zapp gun will be on avg 7 and sometimes the zapp gun hurts you. Yay 15 pts!

Now 10 guaranteed str 7 hits, might be worth something. But why buy 5 str 7 hitswhen you can buy 5 str 8 hits for 15 pts less? The only answer is is because you like the word "Zapp".

AP2.

Grots R OP wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Not really. They can be better AT, but are not Anit Infantryn orientated. Kannons are more of an all rouinder, the Lobba is Antio Horde and the Zzapper is potential AT, potentially useless, or potentially AT with a dead grot.

Zapp Gunn is another example of bad editing again. See Zapp guns used to auto hit, and if they auto hit they can be more effective, as is they are not better than Kannons.

Fire each gun 10 times at BS3.

Both will yield 5 hits on Avg.

Kannon will always be str 8.

Zapp gun will be on avg 7 and sometimes the zapp gun hurts you. Yay 15 pts!

Now 10 guaranteed str 7 hits, might be worth something. But why buy 5 str 7 hitswhen you can buy 5 str 8 hits for 15 pts less?

Because you take risks to make a fun game?

Or didn't pay attention in algebra class.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Because you take risks to make a fun game?

Also this. There is a good possibility of S10. That's not a bad thing. In 2k games, I commonly take 3 Zzap with 3 Runts for times when I need those Zzaps to hit.

Black Templars:

In the fluff, Sword Brethren are said to "recieve additional training, most notably in the use of Tactical Dreadnought Armour".

They don't get Terminator Honours for free, and must pay 10pts PER MODEL in order to benefit from them, on top of the already overpriced base of 19pts.

WHYYYYYY

Grey Knights

Strike Squad/Interceptors, Warp Quake.

I normally balk at the "THE NEU MAREEN CODEX IS OVERPOWERED, WAAAAH" whine that goes around, but Warp Quake is just nasty, like, if there was one thing I would be first to admit is TOO stupid good about the codex, it's that. They should have given something else to Interceptors instead. Like a power that gives them +1A.

pretre wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Because you take risks to make a fun game?

Also this. There is a good possibility of S10. That's not a bad thing. In 2k games, I commonly take 3 Zzap with 3 Runts for times when I need those Zzaps to hit.

.08 * 15 shots per game. You will get 1.2*.5= .6 str 10 hits per 5 rounds assuming no Zapp guns are destroyed. .5 str 10 hit for 105 points?(no codex). a warboss w PK is alot more useful imo and you get 6 str 10 hits for the same price. Which isn't my point.

The point is that this is a proof reading error. The editors/author rewrote the Zapp gunn auto hit rule, then didn't adjust its stats or play test it, they just left it broken. That is nothing but laziness. I only play friendly games myself and I bring alot of "dumb" setups like meganobs and what not . But I realize that meganobs are a terrible unit-I just like them in their siny yellow bad moon outfits, but the fact that they come default "with stikkbombs" is on par stupid with Zzap guns being 15 points more than kannons.

It isn't a proof reading error, it was intentional. Check the FAQ:

Q: Does a Zzap Gun hit automatically? (p51)
A: No, the reference to it hitting automatically in the
main rulebook is from a previous codex and should be
ignored.

I know, but they used to auto hit. They took that away and they left the stats and the cost the same, maybe play testing/engineering is to blame not the editors. I am sure if you ask the engineers they will blame the editors though. lol.

Grots R OP wrote:I know, but they used to auto hit. They took that away and they left the stats and the cost the same, maybe play testing/engineering is to blame not the editors. I am sure if you ask the engineers they will blame the editors though. lol.

You could say the same for Plasma Guns in every single book in 4th and 5th edition; they're costed on AP2 just like Zzap guns.

You're just wrong here. The designers, dumb or not, think more highly of AP2 than most players do. That's why zzaps are so expensive, as are plasma pistols, guns, etc.

In addition to the rest of the stupidity, Brood Telepathy (in the Tyranid codex) does absolutely nothing.

Brood Telepathy:
"xxx are not subject to the Instinctive Behaviour rule."

No model has Brood Telepathy and Instinctive Behaviour - and not every model WITHOUT Instinctive Behaviour has Brood Telepathy (regardless of Synapse).

kirsanth wrote:In addition to the rest of the stupidity, Brood Telepathy (in the Tyranid codex) does absolutely nothing.

Brood Telepathy:
"xxx are not subject to the Instinctive Behaviour rule."

No model has Brood Telepathy and Instinctive Behaviour - and not every model WITHOUT Instinctive Behaviour has Brood Telepathy (regardless of Synapse).

I think I'm missing something here, but isn't that the point? Genestealers are given the BT rule to explain why they don't have IB. Models without BT or IB don't have either because they are independent.

Jidmah wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Not really. They can be better AT, but are not Anit Infantryn orientated. Kannons are more of an all rouinder, the Lobba is Antio Horde and the Zzapper is potential AT, potentially useless, or potentially AT with a dead grot.

Except for a 2% chance to penetrate AV 14, a Zzap gun is strictly worse at anti-tank than a kannon. There is no reason to ever field a zzap gun, other than toasting gretchin

But I don't think this is what the OP was asking for. True rule screw-ups:

- Trukks do not leave craters when exploding, buggies do.
- Stikk bomm chuckas give stikkbomms to gretchin charging out of a vehicle, enabling them to take down vehicles.
- A mek with a KMB has a higher chance to kill himself than to kill a terminator.
- KMBs on both buggies and koptaz are not twin-linked. Twin-linked rokkits on either cost less points than the KMB.
- Koptaz have hit&run and I2.
- Meganobz can't get a Waagh! Banner, Boss Pole or Dok, even though they are the strongest and richest nobz per fluff.
- Burnaz, lootaz and tank bustas can not get a dedicated transport, despite being heavily represented in Evil Sunz clans and the Kult of Speed.
- You are forced to buy a third runtherd only if you field all 30 gretchin, but not if you field 29.





- A weird boy can prevent you from calling Thrakka's Waagh!, potentially defeating the whole point of fielding Thrakka in the first place.
- Weird boyz have energy weapons if they roll one of the three shooting attacks while locked in combat. During your shooting phase. If your opponent was nice enough to not allocate any wounds to a HQ character with the combat abilities of a nob without gear, that might actually happen.
- Unlike the rage USR, dok grotznik forces every single model of his unit to each move towards the closest enemy. This can cause the unit to be strung out to the limits of coherency and not move at all.
- Both the SAG and the KFF have different effects for "units" and "vehicles". It seems that "unit" was supposed to mean "non-vehicle units", but GW FAQed it otherwise.
- Thus, rolling 6,6 and hitting a vehicle with a SAG will cause it to be removed from the game and take a penetrating hit.

How come Trukks don't leave craters when they explode? I've always played that they do.

Stikkbomb chuckas allowing the grots to KO weak vehicles could as easily explained as the barrage of grenades from the transport taking down the vehicle.

Meks with KMB suck. Gods how they do. Agreed on that.

Buggies don't have the option to take KMB. They can have a TL Big Shoota, TL Rokkit Launcha or Skorcha. I agree on the lack of 2L on the Kopta KMB's though.

Hit and Run used to be testless. Not any more. *shrug*

Meganob lack of options bugs me no end. I'd love to have a mega-armoured Painboy/Waagh banner meganob unit. The lack of a bosspole is a bit of a head-scratcher too..

Agreed on the lack of transport for Burnas, Lootas and Tankbustas. I would have given them the option of a trukk,as least..

Re the grots: Apparently that 30th grot is a trouble-maker and needs careful watching

As Thraka's Waaagh can be called at any time, you can call it before yo roll for the wierdboy, negating the problem. It's rare to see a weirdboy and Ghaz list anyway.

Yeah, wierdboys tend to go down like chumps against most foes before they can swing. Works well on other orks, necrons etc though, or anything else with I 2 or less in CC.

The sensible course, though not necessarily strict RAW, would be to move the unit towards the same anemy that Grotsnik is charging, but yeah, his rule is a bit odd.

The SAG 6'6 result has caused more arguments Most everyone i run across (TO and oppoent alike) rules it to be that vehicles just take a pen, regardless of the FAQ. If the question being answered in the FAQ was a bit more exact (Does a vehicle hit by a shokk attack gun 6'6 result get removed from play - yes, but it takes a pen too) then i don't doubt it would got the other way. It comes up so rarely in play that it doesn't really matter much most games.




My own pet peeve

How come the armies that can actually shoot straight, like Marines and Eldar, also like to twinlink, but the ones that don't shoot as well have far less twin-linked stuff (Orks, Tau, Guard etc) ?

Grots R OP wrote:

pretre wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Because you take risks to make a fun game?

Also this. There is a good possibility of S10. That's not a bad thing. In 2k games, I commonly take 3 Zzap with 3 Runts for times when I need those Zzaps to hit.

.08 * 15 shots per game. You will get 1.2*.5= .6 str 10 hits per 5 rounds assuming no Zapp guns are destroyed. .5 str 10 hit for 105 points?(no codex). a warboss w PK is alot more useful imo and you get 6 str 10 hits for the same price. Which isn't my point.

The point is that this is a proof reading error. The editors/author rewrote the Zapp gunn auto hit rule, then didn't adjust its stats or play test it, they just left it broken. That is nothing but laziness. I only play friendly games myself and I bring alot of "dumb" setups like meganobs and what not . But I realize that meganobs are a terrible unit-I just like them in their siny yellow bad moon outfits, but the fact that they come default "with stikkbombs" is on par stupid with Zzap guns being 15 points more than kannons.

You sound fun to play against. /Sarcasm.

Really, you prioritize mashing your opponent over actually enjoying yourself? You skip all ideas of fluff or chance and just take the solid choice?

Remind me never to play you.

pretre wrote:I think I'm missing something here, but isn't that the point?

That is why it is silly, though. They took they time to write a rule that specifies nothing happens. Even weirder, it specifies that nothing happens because of a rule that is not present.

Editing to add:
Which is to say, Brood Telepathy specifically tells you to ignore a rule that does not exist for the models it applies to.

pretre wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:I know, but they used to auto hit. They took that away and they left the stats and the cost the same, maybe play testing/engineering is to blame not the editors. I am sure if you ask the engineers they will blame the editors though. lol.

You could say the same for Plasma Guns in every single book in 4th and 5th edition; they're costed on AP2 just like Zzap guns.

You're just wrong here. The designers, dumb or not, think more highly of AP2 than most players do. That's why zzaps are so expensive, as are plasma pistols, guns, etc.

They are a 15 point downgrade, no sale.

The decapitator.
Master of appearing from the shadows, cutting someones head off and dissapearing.
Can't assault the turn he appears on the field.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:

pretre wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Because you take risks to make a fun game?

Also this. There is a good possibility of S10. That's not a bad thing. In 2k games, I commonly take 3 Zzap with 3 Runts for times when I need those Zzaps to hit.

.08 * 15 shots per game. You will get 1.2*.5= .6 str 10 hits per 5 rounds assuming no Zapp guns are destroyed. .5 str 10 hit for 105 points?(no codex). a warboss w PK is alot more useful imo and you get 6 str 10 hits for the same price. Which isn't my point.

The point is that this is a proof reading error. The editors/author rewrote the Zapp gunn auto hit rule, then didn't adjust its stats or play test it, they just left it broken. That is nothing but laziness. I only play friendly games myself and I bring alot of "dumb" setups like meganobs and what not . But I realize that meganobs are a terrible unit-I just like them in their siny yellow bad moon outfits, but the fact that they come default "with stikkbombs" is on par stupid with Zzap guns being 15 points more than kannons.

You sound fun to play against. /Sarcasm.

Really, you prioritize mashing your opponent over actually enjoying yourself? You skip all ideas of fluff or chance and just take the solid choice?

Remind me never to play you.

Seriously kid, I am not gonna troll you, it's just some basic math man, no reason to call names.

Like I said I bring fun units all the time-for fun. But I expect a professional game designer that wants my money and purchase to at least do more math on their game and proof reading on their codexes than I do. Zzap guns sound cool, I wish they were better at what they are supposed to do. The truth is that they are inferior to Kannons. AP2 does nothing against vehicles. If they were AP1 weapons then I might stop by the store and buy some Zzap gun models. But if you are smart with your money then you don't buy 1 str 10 hitfor $75.00. That make sense?

McNinja wrote: No. In the modern day military, you train for both, and if you show an aptitude for shooting, you can opt to be a sniper. You don't train as a sniper then learn how to be a Marine.

In the modern military you serve for four years. Maybe twenty or so if you are a lifer, but only ten or fifteen of that twenty is going to be in a line unit.

Space Marines serve for decades, even hundreds of years. They need to be masters of every facet of warfare, not just one.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Space Marines serve for decades, even hundreds of years. They need to be masters of every facet of warfare, not just one.

I don’t think the different aspects of warfare are an issue — just the order in which they now do them.

I find it somewhat ironic that so many people are mentioning nonsensical 'mistakes' in the Ork codex, when the Orks are not supposed to make any sense. Even the fluff from the Necron codex mentions that the Orks operate completely outside the realm of logic.

pretre wrote:You're just wrong here. The designers, dumb or not, think more highly of AP2 than most players do. That's why zzaps are so expensive, as are plasma pistols, guns, etc.

That is because AP2 weapons hurt space marines too easily.

Skriker

BlapBlapBlap wrote:You sound fun to play against. /Sarcasm.

Really, you prioritize mashing your opponent over actually enjoying yourself? You skip all ideas of fluff or chance and just take the solid choice?

Remind me never to play you.

So, what's so fun about a Zzap gun? That argument keeps getting brought up whenever kannon vs zzap gun is discussed.

You basically have a gun you expect to do ok (S7, AP2). Sometimes it will do worse by rolling less strength. Sometimes it will do worse by rolling more strength but killing a grot. It will never do better than expected, because that additional strength doesn't do anything 95% of the time.

Is rolling two dice that much fun? Is it worth 30 points upgrade over the strictly better kannons?

Rather than downgrading kannons to zzap gunz, you could just field and additional unit of gretchin and ask your opponent for permission to have your Warboss shoot them in the face with his shoota. That way, you have better big gunz, you get to roll your two dice and you even have a better chance of killing gretchin. Win-win.

Jidmah wrote:So, what's so fun about a Zzap gun? That argument keeps getting brought up whenever kannon vs zzap gun is discussed.

I personally like it gives me AP2 at pretty long range for Orks. 3 Zzaps + 3 Runts keeps me going. Basically, I can use it to take out terminators (something the rest of my army is only so-so at) or armor and if I get a good result when shooting at something (6+ against infantry or 8+ vs vehicles), I use the runts to make it count. Losing 1 grot out of 6 really doesn't bother me, if I roll high. In fact, I cheer as that grot has done a great job for the cause.

I also run Kannons for the reliability, but you can't beat the expression on someone's face when you Zzap the crap out of their terms or blow up a land raider (both things that I've done in RTT games with my zzaps).

Friends and I were having a chat prior to an evening of DnD about the IG Codex, IA & other bits & pieces and we hit on an thought-provoking part of the Guard Codex.

Many people claim that the Vendetta is under-pointed being just 30 more than the standard Valkyrie. What if it's actually the Valkyrie that is over-pointed? If you consider it, 100 points + rocket pods = same cost as the Vendetta already. That's quite a blunder. You're better off getting chimeras for your squads which are far cheaper and two of them will hit just a bit less than a single Valkyrie with door gunners. Thinking of what you get for the points the Valkyrie starts to look weak and over-pointed. Perhaps it should have been just 80 points with door gunners included in the cost? That way even when upgraded it's still a bit cheaper than the Vendetta but the advantage of the three twin-linked lascannons makes the Vendetta worth the extra points.

Just our thoughts...

2 Chimeras can't move 12" and still fire ML and 2 MRP while ignoring DT in transit. Course it is a lot less, but still.

My gut instinct has always been a Valkyrie's about 5-10 points undercosted and a vendetta is 10-15. With Chimeras around 5 points underpointed.

On the other hand, Ogryns, Stormtroopers and a few others, are overcosted.

So, anyhow, that's my rationalisation for fielding Ogryn's along with a Vendetta and Valkyrie. - I'm just playing 'fair.'

I didn't say it was a good rationalisation.

Was making an army list and noticed this in codex space marines:

Land speeder 1, replace heavy bolster with heavy flamer upgrade land speeder to typhoon with multi melta ponits total 60 points

Land speeder 2,replace heavy bolster with multi melta upgrade to typhoon pattern with heavy flamer points total 70

Land speeder 1 hf mm 60 points > land speeder 2 hf mm 70 points.

Wtf? Games workshop, just think for a second.

The last thing I will mention on Zzap guns and it's not because my point is to debate Zzap guns vs Kannons. Are they fun? I guess thats an opinion, I am on jidmah's side in thinking that they are not fun because I don't like paying more points( and real life money) for an inferior weapon that makes it easier to beat me-to me that's not fun.

My point is that Zzap guns were better than Kannons when they autohit. Now they are worse, yet cost more. I don't see this as an intentional weapon design. I see it as lazy engineering/editing/unprofessionalism/Slop, what have you.

Someone, be it editors, engineers, play testers,the ceo, the janitor, someone at GW changed the rule from autohit to BS3. Ok fine, change the price too. I mean the price should be 50% less since it now only hits half as much right? That's my point. It's your job as a game designer to check these things.

A Zzap gun with autohit is a pretty solid weapon. 15(3 per turn) str 6-8 autohits for 90?(no codex) points. That is basically 3 lootas that get 1 shot per round and never miss-OK I might take that in my army. However in their current form, they are no where near that good, besides there is a weapon that costs less and is better at the same thing-kannons. If they would have actually thought about this, then I might actually buy one, as is GW loses a sale on zzap guns.

Even with autohit on the Zzap gun though, it is not meant to be aimed at AV14. There is a reason in the game of craps that a "hard 10" pays back alot of money-because 10's are rare when rolling 2 dice . In vegas this is known as a sucker bet-because only a sucker would take it.

Pony_law wrote:Was making an army list and noticed this in codex space marines:

Land speeder 1, replace heavy bolster with heavy flamer upgrade land speeder to typhoon with multi melta ponits total 60 points

Land speeder 2,replace heavy bolster with multi melta upgrade to typhoon pattern with heavy flamer points total 70

Land speeder 1 hf mm 60 points > land speeder 2 hf mm 70 points.

Wtf? Games workshop, just think for a second.

Incorrect. I have the Codex in front of me and it states that to swap a Heavy Bolter with a Heavy Flamer is free, but to then upgrade to give it a Multi–Melta actually costs 20 points, which brings it to a total of 70. No difference.

Grots R OP wrote:Even with autohit on the Zzap gun though, it is not meant to be aimed at AV14. There is a reason in the game of craps that a "hard 10" pays back alot of money-because 10's are rare when rolling 2 dice . In vegas this is known as a sucker bet-because only a sucker would take it.

Ahh, but the odds of a 10, 11, 12 are much better.

If you define "much" as a 8% chance to do something then yes.

I don't.

You have a 8% chance of rolling a 10 exactly,

you have a 16% chance of scoring a str 10 hit by rolling a 10,11, or 12.

16% chance to get 3 str 10 shots per game.

Which basically equals a 16% chance to wreck av14. so a 16% chance to get a 16% chance = a 2% chance to wreck AV 14 per game.

if that is the "much" you are talking about you can keep it. I guess blowing up a landraider with a Zzap gun is fun for you guys. Particularly because you are still waiting for it to happen.

Grots R OP wrote: If you define "much" as a 8% chance to do something then yes.

I don't.

You have a 8% chance of rolling a 10 exactly,

you have a 16% chance of scoring a str 10 hit by rolling a 10,11, or 12.

16% chance to get 3 str 10 shots per game.

Which basically equals a 16% chance to wreck av14. so a 16% chance to get a 16% chance = a 2% chance to wreck AV 14 per game.

if that is the "much" you are talking about you can keep it. I guess blowing up a landraider with a Zzap gun is fun for you guys. Particularly because you are still waiting for it to happen.

You, uh, need to check that math again. I'm not arguing about zzap guns, they're bad, but a 16% chance per turn does NOT equal a 16% chance per game. A zzap gun battery has about a 65% chance to get S10 at least once during a game; they get 6 rolls, each with a 16% chance to be S10. It's just like rolling 6 2+ saves, odds are that you'll fail at least one, and you may well fail 2, or 3 if you're REALLY unlucky.

One thing in the CSM codex which has always irked me.

Arhiman - the guy costs 250 points, and he is the one that created the Rubric marines (thousands sons). But the thousand sons rule says that each squad must be accompanied by an aspiring sorceror. Problem is, Arhiman is so powerful he is not just any aspiring sorceror, he is a chaos sorceror lord (and a named one too). So, he fails to qualify.

So, creator of the rubric marines wants some thousand sons to accompany him in a squad, he MUST get an aspiring sorceror to tag along as well... Kinda dumb huh.

Codex Space Marines

Land Speeder Storm being a Fast Attack Slot.

This damn thing is already an easy Kill Point and not terribly useful overall. I would still take them for the hell of it in scout heavy armies if they were a dedicated transport. This is mostly because any army that I would want to field them in would also have a large number of land speeders to back them up or just fit in with the general theme.

Also not being able to deploy the transport in DoW makes the unit even more worthless.

Yeah Zerker, my example is only true for one gun not 3 which roll their str individually. For 3 guns it would be a little higher than 2%. Also note that I am saying "destroy" meaning a 5 or 6 on the vehicle chart.

Grots R OP wrote:Yeah Zerker, my example is only true for one gun not 3 which roll their str individually. For 3 guns it would be a little higher than 2%. Also note that I am saying "destroy" meaning a 5 or 6 on the vehicle chart.

Zzaps don't roll their str individually, batteries roll for the entire group.

Eldenfirefly wrote:One thing in the CSM codex which has always irked me.

Arhiman - the guy costs 250 points, and he is the one that created the Rubric marines (thousands sons). But the thousand sons rule says that each squad must be accompanied by an aspiring sorceror. Problem is, Arhiman is so powerful he is not just any aspiring sorceror, he is a chaos sorceror lord (and a named one too). So, he fails to qualify.

So, creator of the rubric marines wants some thousand sons to accompany him in a squad, he MUST get an aspiring sorceror to tag along as well... Kinda dumb huh.

Well the commanders job is an overall commanding job, meanwhile the platoon leaders are the ones that get the troops moving in the right way to achieve the overall goals of the commander. So this makes perfect sense. Ahriman is throwing his mojo around and leading the *army*, meanwhile the aspiring sorcerer is keeping the rubric marines focused and functioning.

Skriker

Grots R OP wrote: If you define "much" as a 8% chance to do something then yes.

I don't.

You have a 8% chance of rolling a 10 exactly,

you have a 16% chance of scoring a str 10 hit by rolling a 10,11, or 12.

16% chance to get 3 str 10 shots per game.

Which basically equals a 16% chance to wreck av14. so a 16% chance to get a 16% chance = a 2% chance to wreck AV 14 per game.

if that is the "much" you are talking about you can keep it. I guess blowing up a landraider with a Zzap gun is fun for you guys. Particularly because you are still waiting for it to happen.

You need a roll of 15 or more to penetrate a landraider, meaning either S10+5, S10+6 or S9+6
The probability of a roll of 10 or better is .1666
The chance to roll a 5 or 6 after rolling a 10 or better is .1666 * .3333 = 0.0555

The probability to roll exactly 9 is .1111
The chance to roll a 6 after rolling a 9 is .1111 * .1666 = 0.0185

Total chance to penetrate a landraider when hitting: 0.0741 or 7.41%
Total chance to destroy a landraider when hitting: 0,0247 or 2.47%

Chance to hit with one gun, using an ammo runt: 75%
Chance to hit once with three guns: 14,06% -> 0,34% to destroy
Chance to hit twice with three guns: 42,19% -> 2.06% to destroy
Chance to hit three times with three guns: 42,19% -> 3.09% to destroy

Total:
5,49% chance to destroy a landraider with three zzap gunz in one turn.
24,6% chance to destroy a landraider with three zzap gunz in five turns.
19.66% chance to never roll a strength of 9 or higher in five turns.

Note that these number assume that the landraider is always in range, out of cover and you can always use ammo runts. Thus, the real numbers are conciderably lower.

And, just for the heck of it::
Chance of three kannons immobilizing a landraider in one turn: 6,25%

Jidmah wrote:5,49% chance to destroy a landraider with three zzap gunz in one turn.
24,6% chance to destroy a landraider with three zzap gunz in five turns.
19.66% chance to never roll a strength of 9 or higher in five turns.

Note that these number assume that the landraider is always in range, out of cover and you can always use ammo runts. Thus, the real numbers are conciderably lower.

And, just for the heck of it::
Chance of three kannons immobilizing a landraider in one turn: 6,25%

Interesting. So although neither one is good against land raiders, Zzap and Kannons have roughly the same chance of doing something against one in one turn. (5.49 vs 6.25)

I think that Zzap are much more important as a source of AP2 in an army that doesn't have much reliable AP2. Man do I wish they still auto-hit though.

Skriker wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:One thing in the CSM codex which has always irked me.

Arhiman - the guy costs 250 points, and he is the one that created the Rubric marines (thousands sons). But the thousand sons rule says that each squad must be accompanied by an aspiring sorceror. Problem is, Arhiman is so powerful he is not just any aspiring sorceror, he is a chaos sorceror lord (and a named one too). So, he fails to qualify.

So, creator of the rubric marines wants some thousand sons to accompany him in a squad, he MUST get an aspiring sorceror to tag along as well... Kinda dumb huh.

Well the commanders job is an overall commanding job, meanwhile the platoon leaders are the ones that get the troops moving in the right way to achieve the overall goals of the commander. So this makes perfect sense. Ahriman is throwing his mojo around and leading the *army*, meanwhile the aspiring sorcerer is keeping the rubric marines focused and functioning.

Skriker

For 250 points, Ahriman should have enough mojo to multitask.

The ork Kombi rokkit. 5 pts for a weapon that hits once every 3 games. Worse, its on a Nob and its a shoota/rokkit so you loose +1 attack for having pistol/ccw.

probably not the worst, but still annoying the fact that Forge World upgrades arent in the CSM codex, iv got the Forge World deadnought with sonic blaster so if i play it theres a discussion on points and stuff

Ascalam wrote:How come the armies that can actually shoot straight, like Marines and Eldar, also like to twinlink, but the ones that don't shoot as well have far less twin-linked stuff (Orks, Tau, Guard etc) ?

i would remove the tau from not good at shooting strait, with our markerlights its pretty easy to shoot strait. also the crisis suits, tau backbone, can shoot twinlinked as do broadsides. i agree we need it on the tanks though...

mine is tau
a shooty army that has a difficult time ID orks or any other T4 model unless theres nothing big left on table

pretre wrote:
Interesting. So although neither one is good against land raiders, Zzap and Kannons have roughly the same chance of doing something against one in one turn. (5.49 vs 6.25)

I think that Zzap are much more important as a source of AP2 in an army that doesn't have much reliable AP2. Man do I wish they still auto-hit though.

Zzap gunz are 45 points more than the kannons though, including ammo runts but not the extra crew.

In addition, you do need AP2 at all in an ork army. Shoota boyz are better at shooting terminators dead than zzap gunz are, point for point. The 5++ save already ruins the effectiveness of zap gunz, a rosarius/nemesis force sword or even a storm shield make them pretty much useless. If you get three good hits with the kannon's blast profile, you might kill just as many terminators than with those zzap gunz.

Top 10 for effectiveness (wounds/points) in killing 2+/5++ models by shooting only:
1. SAG
2. Kanz /w Grotzooka
3. Warphead
4. Shoota boyz, Gretchin
5. Badruk(if he were fielded by himself)
6. Zzap gun
7. Lootaz, Meks
8. Flash Gits
9. Kan /w KMB, Weird boy
10. Slugga boyz

That's how awesome ork low AP is

[@ Grots R OP

That makes perfect sense.

In the Ork society Nobs are the biggest and strongest (barring the Warboss, of course) and so they lay claim to the most loot and the snazziest equipment (like the Mega-Armour itself, for example). Whether they can use it or not should be completely irrelevant to the Nob. He is strong, therefore he should get it.

Now why said Meganobs do not have access to Cybork Bodies (kool gear) or Boss poles (status symbol showing he is the biggest and baddest).....now THAT makes no sense at all.


]

=Exactly!

IIRC Bospoles allow an armour save? If so then Bosspole on MANz would be exetremly OP, allowing them to pas all morale tests with virtually no risk of losing a model to the Bosspole, unlike in Boyz Mobz.

As for Cybork bodies, that does indeed confuse me.

You only get one reroll. You don't get to keep rolling until you pass.

Yeah, but at Ld 7, rerolling, and virtually no risk of casulties, let alone wounds, is oppowerful.

One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

Grand Master Mordrak is Mastery Level 1.

Brother Captain Stern and Justicar Thawn are Mastery Level 2, the same as Librarians?

Deadshot wrote:Grand Master Mordrak is Mastery Level 1.

Brother Captain Stern and Justicar Thawn are Mastery Level 2, the same as Librarians?

Psychic power is traditionally a gift that you are born with. Sure you can train it up a bit, but you can't get more than you start with. It makes perfect sense that some GK would have more psychic power than others.

Milisim wrote:One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

That is, indeed, the justification for the rule.

Deadnoughts aren't exactly 'lumbering', and in order to be effective a grenade has to be placed and attached in precisely the right spot. Just slapping it onto the armor won't do anything.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Milisim wrote:One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

That is, indeed, the justification for the rule.

Deadnoughts aren't exactly 'lumbering', and in order to be effective a grenade has to be placed and attached in precisely the right spot. Just slapping it onto the armor won't do anything.

What about Eldar War Walkers?

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

What about Eldar War Walkers?

Have YOU ever tried to attach a grenade to something that's repeatedly kicking you in the head with its enormous wraithbone foot? It ain't as easy as it looks. . .

Walkers move like infantry in almost every respect. They can walk, run, and hit things with the same speed, but more power. If you've played Dawn of War 2, the SM dreadnaughts are an example of how they act.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

What about Eldar War Walkers?

Have YOU ever tried to attach a grenade to something that's repeatedly kicking you in the head with its enormous wraithbone foot? It ain't as easy as it looks. . .

Your ass, my size 290 hoof

I see warwalker combat as being a cross between Riverdance and russian squat-kick dancing, for some reason

Ascalam wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

What about Eldar War Walkers?

Have YOU ever tried to attach a grenade to something that's repeatedly kicking you in the head with its enormous wraithbone foot? It ain't as easy as it looks. . .

Your ass, my size 290 hoof

I see warwalker combat as being a cross between Riverdance and russian squat-kick dancing, for some reason

LOL! I was thinking the same thing xD.
And what's even better is that the Eldar have some celtic influence in their fluff.

Sentinals too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sentinals too.

Deadshot wrote:Yeah, but at Ld 7, rerolling, and virtually no risk of casulties, let alone wounds, is oppowerful.

Succeeding Ld7 with a reroll is about as likely as ld9. You just claimed that all ld9 (or higher) units are overpowered

The Whole Chaos Space Marines codex...

Warwalker squadron gets stones (like extra armor) for +X pts per model. But the squadron rule says that a squadron has built-in extra armor.

wuestenfux wrote:Warwalker squadron gets stones (like extra armor) for +X pts per model. But the squadron rule says that a squadron has built-in extra armor.

Not if you lose all but one walker or field just one in the first place. Many squadrons can take extra armor or equivalents.

Milisim wrote:One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

It is easier to take out a tank or other vehicle with a grenade because it isn't fighting back in hand to hand. A dreadnought is a full participant in the melee, so getting that grenade into the right spot to do the job is a little harder because while you are trying to place the grenade the dread is doing its best to keep you from placing the grenade.

Skriker

Any deep striking close combat unit such as:
Lictors / Death leaper
Mandrakes / Decapitator
Bloodletters / Skull taker

They all have "scary" fluff talking about how they appear out of nowhere and do serious damage. Rule wise, there's really no point in deep striking next to your opponent as they will just shoot you in the face.

^ Yes, that fluff rubbish would only work if you could deep strike next to someone and immediately assault them.

Well, at least Tyranid players can stop whining about a thin metal layer from a transport protecting you from the Shadow in the Warp now.

Not sure if anyone has said this but why do scourges get assualt grenades. It even says in their fluff they avoid close combat.I could understand defensive grenades but assualt grenades?

He's one that I like

Vulkan and Astorath both have power weapons that let them strike at strength 6, yet they get krak grenades.

Also, Kantor has frag and krak grenades and his only CCW is a powerfist.

EmilCrane wrote:He's one that I like

Vulkan and Astorath both have power weapons that let them strike at strength 6, yet they get krak grenades.

Also, Kantor has frag and krak grenades and his only CCW is a powerfist.

Kantor might have them if he wanted to strike at initiative against a walker.

codex:tyranids

figure:
spore mines &
biovores.

problem:
firing at close range.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:He's one that I like

Vulkan and Astorath both have power weapons that let them strike at strength 6, yet they get krak grenades.

Also, Kantor has frag and krak grenades and his only CCW is a powerfist.

Kantor might have them if he wanted to strike at initiative against a walker.

That and all marines have them...


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kshaw2000 wrote:codex:tyranids

figure:
spore mines &
biovores.

problem:
firing at close range.

Wait, let me get this straight... Artillery has a problem firing at short range? NO WAI.

Biovores arn't artillery and I do.not believe they have a min. range.

GK Codex. Ordo Malleus Inquisitor options.


Van exchange Bolt Pistol/Chainsword for

Hellrifle, incinerator, Daemonblade, PF or Daemon Hammer -xpts

Power Fist cost the same as a Thunder Hammer, with Daemonbane? Fail?

Kodanshi wrote:^ Yes, that fluff rubbish would only work if you could deep strike next to someone and immediately assault them.

I wish they would say you can either move, shoot, or assault, you must choose 1 after deepstriking but you cannot do all 3.

Would be ideal imo :( Like flayed ones deepstrike w/ imotekh's special rule and suffer the same consequence.

No idea if these have been mentioned before as I've not read the whole thread but;

Codex SM:
Chapter master and captain cannot figure out how to get/use a relic blade when in termie armor.

Captain grants bikes as troops if he takes one... but not the chapter's master?

TAC squads that can only take a weapon other than a bolter when they have a 10man squad (outside of the SGT).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaplain's points cost compared to their stat line and the captain's stat line and points cost.

Chapter master's and captain's can't get anything master crafted.

Lightning claws being nerfed to only rerolling wounds.

Digital weapons making taking a lightning claw questionable.


Codex Bloodangels:
Captains' wargear choices are glorified squad SGT wargear choices.

Reclusiarch's points cost compared to his statline and a captain's statline/points cost.