hey folks,

i was recently browsing through the new vampire counts models on the GW site, when i noticed the new army book is £25. Now im a 40K player, so i thought i'd check other WHFB army books. They were £20 (Same as 40k books). I cant compare the cost of models, like the price comparison between two basic box sets of 10 man troops, cause i dont play WHFB.

So do the Vampire Counts of 2012 mark yet another jump in GW prices?

What price hike? Don't know what you're talkin' bout.

I don't think so IIRC, I think that this price has been a feature on the new hardback army books. But I may stand corrected later on.

Nothing to see here... move along!

yeah, all the new fantasy army books are coming out in hardback, so far we have orcs and goblins, tomb kings, ogres and now vampire counts, each at £25, this will be the norm for fantasy army books from now on. rumours say that 40k codex's will become hardback books in 6th ed, but those are just the rumours I've heard, and this is neither the time nor the place to discuss this...

As noted, new hardback army books have all cost £25 since they started being released last year. Expect 40K Codexes to get the same treatment come 6th Edition.

Miniature wise, VC box sets are actually some of the better value ones relatively speaking, although Grave Guard only cost £15 when they were first released. Then GW decided to randomly add £10 to the cost of all Special/Rare box sets.

EDIT - That's not to say that the annual price hike isn't coming soon.

£25 for a slim hardback is a lot. My wife worked in printing and I can assure you that a hardback only costs marginally more than a paperback. They probably cost a little more to ship, but the costs of printing are not in the cover, yet as is common with all books the hardbacks from GW are significantly more expensive than their paperback equivalent.

Also you can get some pretty big hardbacks for £25, which does not make GW's army books look good value. I'm reading the Horus Heresy Collected visions book at the moment and it's an absolute beast of a book, and full colour throughout, priced £30.

Howard, GW would find your lack of faith disturbing. If they say it costs £5 more to produce a hardcopy, then by golly that's what it costs.

They shot themselves in the foot there really. I've bought pretty much every codex/army book since the mid 1990s purely to read them. Now I only buy the ones for armies I want to collect.

Muppets.

Flashman wrote:They shot themselves in the foot there really. I've bought pretty much every codex/army book since the mid 1990s purely to read them. Now I only buy the ones for armies I want to collect.

Muppets.

lose one customer, gain more from every other.

sounds like a good plan to me.

Well GW you did it again, you made people not want to buy your stuff.

Kouzuki wrote:

Flashman wrote:They shot themselves in the foot there really. I've bought pretty much every codex/army book since the mid 1990s purely to read them. Now I only buy the ones for armies I want to collect.

Muppets.

lose one customer, gain more from every other.

sounds like a good plan to me.

Yes, but atm, it's ever-decreasing circles...

Better keep fingers crossed to hold on until the Hobbit movies bring in more fresh blood.

ahh ok fair enough. they are hardback. i didn't know.

thanks for clearing that up

Yep I'm in the same boat. I would buy every army book/codex. I thought they were pushing it when they went up to £15 from £12 (only a few years ago) at £17.50 I stopped buying the ones I didnt need.

at £20/£25 I am not buying at all.

I play a game or 2 a year at most in a very relaxed informal way (my place over a few beers) so y'know what GW? My old books still work!

There's one every year anyway.
It'll be 25 in January, but come the annual rise around April it'll probably be something like 26-28ish.

I don't see this ending in any other way except badly. Did we ask for hardback codex books? Nope. The softcover ones did the job thankyou. Here's an idea GeeDub, offer us both options. Hard and Soft back. That way you are giving us, the customer, choice.

God forbid you ever do that though hey?

I'm currently playing 2nd Ed anyways. eBay is the shop of choice for that game. My lil bro picked up Codex Orks for the princely sum of £5 including postage.

I just can't figure out how the IG sentinel that has been sitting on the shelf at the local store was 25.00 US, and suddenly, it becam 30.00 over a weekend?

martin74 wrote:I just can't figure out how the IG sentinel that has been sitting on the shelf at the local store was 25.00 US, and suddenly, it becam 30.00 over a weekend?

You know that department stores have 'price changers' who go around the store every day and update prices both up and down for existing inventory, right? Why is it surprising that GW does the same?

I prefer the hardback. They are easiier to store on a shelf that way.
Know if only codexes/army books where avaiable in ebook form.
Also wouldnt it be nice if rather then a price increase this year they spend there time with revertng everything to finecast? So we can atleast understand WHY we are being sucked out of our money?

I have it from a 100% reliable source that GW has planned price hikes scheduled yearly for the forseable future. This is not related to cost to produce goods etc, its just how they drive their business model.

Chapterhouse wrote:I have it from a 100% reliable source that GW has planned price hikes scheduled yearly for the forseable future. This is not related to cost to produce goods etc, its just how they drive their business model.

Yup, I believe it I can think of two reasons
1: To be total jerks
2: They do this to compensate for eventual production cost hikes. So rather then a ten doller price hike every couple of years its 2 dllers for the next 5.
Or they just know we will buy it.

I think it’s pretty obvious how GW’s business model works in that it’s heavily reliant on price increases and regional pricing to keep itself afloat (rather than consumer analysis, marketing strategies etc).

I’ve always felt that the core issue is that GW underestimates the price elasticity of their products and pretty soon they’ll need to do something other than price increases to mitigate their costs. As it stands now, Master of Ravenwing costs $80AUD and single figure SCs like Abaddon cost $40AUD. Imagine how much they’ll cost in a few years time? *shudder*.

They’ve been able to get away with it up until now because they were the only big player in the market (thus could call the shots) and they had a very large fanatical fanbase (who buy their bodyweight in plastic crack). The current pattern in the financial reports suggests an increasing steady decline in sales (which is often disguised via dividends and cost cutting) as well as a big increase in rival companies like PP and Corvus Belli. This suggests that GW will have to change up their business model (and how they deal with things) if they wish to maintain their stature.

The vamp book is justifiably more expensive than the other books, it is hardbacked. The orc and ogre books are the same..
My empire book is cheaper than the vamp book, for example.

Scipio Africanus wrote:The vamp book is justifiably more expensive than the other books.

In comparison to other WFB army books? Sure.

In comparison to other hardback books of the same size? Nope.

Well, I suppose it'll be easier to bludgeon out any sense of betrayal you get from GW with a hardcover....

Chapterhouse wrote:I have it from a 100% reliable source that GW has planned price hikes scheduled yearly for the forseable future. This is not related to cost to produce goods etc, its just how they drive their business model.

To be fair, a blind, deaf and mute man, who has been so since birth and so has no concept of light and sound, living in a cave hidden deep in the Amazon jungle, would also be aware that this is the case.

My 100% reliable source that GW will continue to increases the prices far beyond that of their actual production cost is GW itself.

They don't hide this fact.

H.B.M.C. wrote:My 100% reliable source that GW will continue to increases the prices far beyond that of their actual production cost is GW itself.

They don't hide this fact.

Kinda sad. that just enocurages people to buy second hand. from places like thewarstore.
Or to buy bulk deals.
Also, where did they get this idea from. I have never heard of any other company doing this.

Howard A Treesong wrote:£25 for a slim hardback is a lot. My wife worked in printing and I can assure you that a hardback only costs marginally more than a paperback. They probably cost a little more to ship, but the costs of printing are not in the cover, yet as is common with all books the hardbacks from GW are significantly more expensive than their paperback equivalent.

Also you can get some pretty big hardbacks for £25, which does not make GW's army books look good value. I'm reading the Horus Heresy Collected visions book at the moment and it's an absolute beast of a book, and full colour throughout, priced £30.

Hardback books come with a perception of quality, much like resin. For better or worse, I think customers have attached value to those mediums, and Games Workshop is capitalizing on that perception of value.

Having started wargaming a scant five years or so ago, I personally detest working with metal miniatures. I find it very annoying, but that is primarily because a metal model is oftentimes the odd man out, and thus I have less experience with cleaning, assembling, converting, painting, and handling metal miniatures. My personal frustration with a metal miniature is why I attach a measure of added value to a resin model.

Forget hardbacks though. I'm not a terribly huge fan of hardback books, except when it comes to gaming and books that I would prefer to preserve for an extended period of time. Even so, I am not especially fond of the added price that is attached to hardback books, especially novels. From the perspective of a customer and an avid reader, I think there's a good reason why hard cover editions of serialized novels are released first. The suckers that want to read the book will shell out for the hardback because they've been waiting for the darn book to come out (one can generally determine at what point I caught up with a series by looking at where on the shelf the books start appearing in hardback editions). If it came out in paperback at the same time, my guess would be that many readers would simply chose the less expensive option.

However, gaming books are firmly, for me, in the category of books that I would like to preserve for an extended period of time. Thus I prefer my gaming books to be in hardcover. I applaud GW's move to hardback army books, but at the same time I deplore what seems to be an unreasonable bump in price. At the price the army books were already at, they should have been hardback.

weeble1000 wrote:
However, gaming books are firmly, for me, in the category of books that I would like to preserve for an extended period of time. Thus I prefer my gaming books to be in hardcover. I applaud GW's move to hardback army books, but at the same time I deplore what seems to be an unreasonable bump in price. At the price the army books were already at, they should have been hardback.

Why?

Any gaming company will usually put out a newer version of any given book within 5 years so all your old books will be replaced in that (aproximate), timeframe.

And having a hardback book just makes it all that much harder to transport and use during games, IMO.

Notice that GW isn't the only games company guilty of this, BF has started to release their campaign books only in hardback format, wich I particularly find imensely annoying!

Companies more in touch with their customers give you a choice..........

Ok, first off, if you don't like GW, don't buy the gak from their store. You can get a 20% discount basically everywhere else on the internet. Hell, I bought 5 of these. So, about the price, stop bitching.

Second, about the price hikes... GW wants to make money! Shock! Gasp! What a novel Idea! They're to big to be goodie goodies to all of their customers. Except for their customer Service. It's awesome. Like, better than most companies. If a single model is broken, they'll send you a whole new goddamned sprue.

About the Hardcover rulebooks, deal with it. They're full color, much easier to deal with (Not much re-binding issues, can withstand a lot more punishment that the softcovers) and they're what, 10 USD more? So what.

Basically, you can't whine and bitch about prices, then go off and buy 10 megaforces and a boat load of hardcover rulebooks.

In fairness it probably wouldn't be worthwhile putting out hard and paperback copies of their rules books because you'd print fewer of each meaning the cost per unit goes up and the whole point of this is probably to increase the profit margin on each book sold.

Everyone expects hardbacks to be significantly more expensive, but manufacture isn't that much more costly, so it's a very easy way to make money, change to a product with a greater profit margin.

That's why all new books come out in hardback first for £20, and then are released later in paperback for much less. Not everyone will pay £20 for a book, but lots will if it's new and is the only edition available, and on those the profit margin is greater than paperback. And will be if it only costs 50p to put a hard cover on but you charge an extra £10.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Everyone expects hardbacks to be significantly more expensive, but manufacture isn't that much more costly, so it's a very easy way to make money, change to a product with a greater profit margin.

Chowderhead wrote:Second, about the price hikes... GW wants to make money! Shock! Gasp! What a novel Idea!

Chowderhead wrote:Ok, first off, if you don't like GW, don't buy the gak from their store. You can get a 20% discount basically everywhere else on the internet. Hell, I bought 5 of these. So, about the price, stop bitching.

No, I won't, sorry dear but you don't get to say what people can complain about. Whille GW offers middle of the pack quality miniatures and books at top shelve prices you'll hear me complain about it.

Chowderhead wrote:
Second, about the price hikes... GW wants to make money! Shock! Gasp! What a novel Idea! They're to big to be goodie goodies to all of their customers. Except for their customer Service. It's awesome. Like, better than most companies. If a single model is broken, they'll send you a whole new goddamned sprue.

Again, nope, sorry to disapoint your little fanboy heart, but that is just regular class customer service.

I bought a few 4 man packs of minis from Empress a few months back and one of the packs had a gun missing, I fired up an email to them and they sent me a full 4 man pack to replace the single part that was missing from the other, no questions asked, no hassle of any kind!

So the much vaunted GW customer service is matched by even the smallest of miniature companies...

Chowderhead wrote:
About the Hardcover rulebooks, deal with it. They're full color, much easier to deal with (Not much re-binding issues, can withstand a lot more punishment that the softcovers) and they're what, 10 USD more? So what.

So they cost 30% more for no reason, are harder to carry around and are harder to use on a day to day basis. They are absolutelly not "easier to deal with".

Chowderhead wrote:
Basically, you can't whine and bitch about prices, then go off and buy 10 megaforces and a boat load of hardcover rulebooks.

Don't worry, I won't.

I guess the problem is now though that these days GW has some very real competitors, and that there is an increasing gap in between them in terms of the costs of playing the game.

Un-necessary price hikes (or rather ones done just because they can) are all well and good within a monopoly, but I would argue that the wargaming customer has never had as many options as they have now, nor the easy access to them. On the one hand 'parasitical' companies like Mantic, who are feeding off GW's pricing structure, on the other hand the likes of PP, Battlefront, Infinity and the like, who are offering an alternative experience for less money.

When Rick Priestly left GW he said in an interview that there was absolutely no acknowledgement amongst upper management that they had any competitors within the market place. Until they realise that a lot of their lost sales (and I think actually their sales that might have come from growth of the industry) are going to these other companies, then no doubt we will continue to see perennial price increases, and random reduction of models per box like we have just seen for LoTR.

My source tell me there will be a price "adjustment" for the monstrous infantry

Surely they are not truly monstrous until their price tag is.

Though it'd be interesting to see how they go about it if the rumor about 6th ed sticking around for ages and them focusing more on models holds up.

Chowderhead wrote:Ok, first off, if you don't like GW, don't buy the gak from their store. You can get a 20% discount basically everywhere else on the internet. Hell, I bought 5 of these. So, about the price, stop bitching.

Second, about the price hikes... GW wants to make money! Shock! Gasp! What a novel Idea! They're to big to be goodie goodies to all of their customers. Except for their customer Service. It's awesome. Like, better than most companies. If a single model is broken, they'll send you a whole new goddamned sprue.

About the Hardcover rulebooks, deal with it. They're full color, much easier to deal with (Not much re-binding issues, can withstand a lot more punishment that the softcovers) and they're what, 10 USD more? So what.

Basically, you can't whine and bitch about prices, then go off and buy 10 megaforces and a boat load of hardcover rulebooks.

I will never understand corporate apologists as long as I live.

Brother Gyoken wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:Ok, first off, if you don't like GW, don't buy the gak from their store. You can get a 20% discount basically everywhere else on the internet. Hell, I bought 5 of these. So, about the price, stop bitching.

Second, about the price hikes... GW wants to make money! Shock! Gasp! What a novel Idea! They're to big to be goodie goodies to all of their customers. Except for their customer Service. It's awesome. Like, better than most companies. If a single model is broken, they'll send you a whole new goddamned sprue.

About the Hardcover rulebooks, deal with it. They're full color, much easier to deal with (Not much re-binding issues, can withstand a lot more punishment that the softcovers) and they're what, 10 USD more? So what.

Basically, you can't whine and bitch about prices, then go off and buy 10 megaforces and a boat load of hardcover rulebooks.

I will never understand corporate apologists as long as I live.

Apologist? nay.

Realist? Yay. GW has outrageous prices and butchered the hobby in my area by pulling all GW stores in NE America. We have a love-hate relationship, me and Gee Dubs.

Brother Gyoken wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:Ok, first off, if you don't like GW, don't buy the gak from their store. You can get a 20% discount basically everywhere else on the internet. Hell, I bought 5 of these. So, about the price, stop bitching.

Second, about the price hikes... GW wants to make money! Shock! Gasp! What a novel Idea! They're to big to be goodie goodies to all of their customers. Except for their customer Service. It's awesome. Like, better than most companies. If a single model is broken, they'll send you a whole new goddamned sprue.

About the Hardcover rulebooks, deal with it. They're full color, much easier to deal with (Not much re-binding issues, can withstand a lot more punishment that the softcovers) and they're what, 10 USD more? So what.

Basically, you can't whine and bitch about prices, then go off and buy 10 megaforces and a boat load of hardcover rulebooks.

I will never understand corporate apologists as long as I live.

What's not to understand? You think I'm dumb and I think you're dumb.

This entire conversation, this entire train of thought, that GW is Malign but then that GW is just a company tryin' ta turn a buck... it's like listening to Christians and Atheists.

The point is, NEITHER OF YOU are ever going to agree. Neither of you are ever going to find a compromise. I'm sure our friend Chowderhead here hates the price rises as much as the next person, but he respects the fact that GW isn't here to do our bidding - they're here to make a profit. They will do what they want, and you have no say.

If you truly harbour this much resentment for the game you play and the price you pay, then have your say and give GW the bird. [Yes, the rhyme was intentional.] Don't buy their stuff anymore. Chowderhead is quite right when he says this group of people who cry about the price while they sit behind their desk clipping their new land raider off the sprue.

If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. Noone is ever going to force you to.

I know I'm white-knighting here, but for gods sake this argument is stupid. If you want to complain, I [I hope we] respect your respective right to do so, but don't expect it to go unnoticed or unattacked.

I suppose in the end, what I want us all to do... is, just get along. Knock some heads and complain about the real issue: Why this codex or that codex become overpowered as a result of x.

PP currently give you a choice of Hardback or Softback - too much to ask of the biggest company to offer the same choice ?

Dynamix wrote:PP currently give you a choice of Hardback or Softback - too much to ask of the biggest company to offer the same choice ?

Now you're just sounding needy

Dynamix wrote:PP currently give you a choice of Hardback or Softback - too much to ask of the biggest company to offer the same choice ?

Yes, yes it is too hard.

Dynamix wrote:PP currently give you a choice of Hardback or Softback - too much to ask of the biggest company to offer the same choice ?

Yes its too hard because....

To we buyers, the price GW set between the 2 are astronomic.
But realistically, the cost for GW to make soft cover would be like $3, and hard cover being $3.50

Now why would GW want that hassle? Instead, who wouldn't rather add 50 cents to get $15 extra of selling hard cover.

People need to start looking at GW and how they do things from a completely different perspective.

Hard covers are more expensive but if given the choce i would choose hard covers for codexes.

Last time I checked with PP books, there isn’t too much of a difference between the Soft vs Hard cover versions. The only big difference IMO is that the Soft cover versions tend to be more available stock wise than the hard cover version. You really have to shop around to get the hard cover books (I personally recommend getting the army books in hard cover).

I can see the downside to GW hardcover books in that with their ridiculous and arbitrary pricing, they’ll be significantly more expensive. Even still, if GW were to offer both hard and soft, they would probably increase the base price of the soft cover version. Personally I have a theory that GW’s current strategy is to “disguise” price rises in supposedly higher quality products (e.g. Finecast, Hardcover etc).

What is worse is when your FLGS is more expensive than the online store...

DeadlySquirrel wrote:What is worse is when your FLGS is more expensive than the online store...

I know. I love my local store. they are nice, friendly and all around good guys. But they have the same precises as GW. But i want to support them because it is owned and it pumps more money into our local economy. But the problem is we voted in new sales taxes not long ago. so we are charge quite a bit in tax.

The thing with a normal FLGS is they don't really get the huge extra revenue from online sales. They need to cover 100% of their operating costs from what they sell in the store, which comes from primarily people in the area, which is why not many offer a large discount on GW products. While they get a good portion of their sales from GW stuff, they just can't afford to lower the prices.

Online stores potentially get sales worldwide (though I don't see why, say, someone from the US would order from Australia, but I bet it's happened), and have less overhead. They offer a larger discount simply because they can.

That said, I still recommend getting anything possible from your FLGS. It goes into making the store better (well, if it's a store worth making better), which helps the gaming community.

The only reason why they are doing a price hike is because they are getting less consumers. So when demand decreases prices increases.
GW is slowing drinking the poison bottle. Which will lead to its inevitable doom.
On the other hand FFG is too much fun and I want more of their stuff.

I just looked at some prices. 10 Imperial Guardsmen from GW...29.00.

10 Cygnar Long Gunners from PP.....49.99
10 Cygnar Trencher Infantry.....54.99

Damn GW and their high prices. I should make the switch to PP.

Yeh, the prices are expensive at pp, but you only need 10-15 guys on the table. So with guardsmen you need what over 100 or if you go vehicles 9+. So making the switch to pp is better and their rules are better aswell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think people should play the game before bagging it out as warmachine is alot of fun. You can also start playing the game with 65 dollars(australian). That's how much their starter set is. To make an army with gw you need 1000+ dollars.

It’s also worth noting that PP does not use regional pricing like GW and they cost the same wherever you buy them. A $10-20 purchase in WM/H has a much bigger impact than in GW (where a single HQ or heavy support choice can cost $100). Also when PP move a product to plastic, the product is made cheaper instead of more expensive (like Finecast lol).

KGatch113 wrote:

I just looked at some prices. 10 Imperial Guardsmen from GW...29.00.

10 Cygnar Long Gunners from PP.....49.99
10 Cygnar Trencher Infantry.....54.99

Damn GW and their high prices. I should make the switch to PP.

You are right. Now let's complete the armies shall we?

Those Cygnar models would need maybe 4 more models to make a standard 35 point army.

Those 10 guardsmen would need 4 more models to make a standard 1500 point army.

Well, color me blind, I guess a table top ready 1500 point GW IG army is the same as a table top ready 35 point Cygnar army! WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK??????

BuFFo wrote:

KGatch113 wrote:

I just looked at some prices. 10 Imperial Guardsmen from GW...29.00.

10 Cygnar Long Gunners from PP.....49.99
10 Cygnar Trencher Infantry.....54.99

Damn GW and their high prices. I should make the switch to PP.

You are right. Now let's complete the armies shall we?

Those Cygnar models would need maybe 4 more models to make a standard 35 point army.

Those 10 guardsmen would need 4 more models to make a standard 1500 point army.

Well, color me blind, I guess a table top ready 1500 point GW IG army is the same as a table top ready 35 point Cygnar army! WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK??????

He's trollin'. I guarantee he already knows this.

$1100 (NZD) for 2 codexes i super glue 19 paints 1 rule book and about 2.5k points of models (15 lychguard 24 cron warriors and 6 scarabs. 1 cryptek and 2 overlords. then a daemon prince and a csm battle force (15 csm's 8 khrone zerkers 5 possessed 1 chaos rhino) oh and 2 fine detail brushes 1 normal size one 1 small drybrush and one stipling brush.

so my little cousin wanted to start an army. he gets $5 a week. thats about 60 weeks saving. if you include christmas and birthday money if he said he wanted just money then he might only have to save about um... 20 weeks. whats the point

hmm maybe everyone at dakka should chip in and start a non profit shop selling the models for not much more than purchase price for retailers. bring the hobby back to the people.

HI all.
GW plc is a corperate buisness that has every right to price its products how it wants and pay as much dividends to share holders as it can justify.

However, many games companies , actualy listen to what thier customer want ,and care about how the customers view thier company /game/products.

They DOUBLE the model count for the SAME price , when they switch from expencive white metal to cheaper resin/plastic.(Mantic.)

They produce a massed combat game and price minatures apropriately ,(Lots of plastic minatures at a reasonable price.) (Mantic.)

They give away rules and army composition lists FREE with army boxed sets ,(£89 to £200)(Mantic.)

They give away a FREE new mini rules book, (to customers with the old hard back rules.) when the new edition is released.(BF)

They NEVER invalidate any army lists .(BF)

They produce a skirmish game with easy entry .(Too many to mention by name...)

In short they try to offer EASILY identified value for money.

This is not price per minature.BUT price to have a 'full army' and 'play the proper game'.

While GW plc competitors try to offer the very best value for money they possible can .

GWplc seem focused on squeesing as much money as it can from its ever shrinking customer base.

KGatch113 wrote:

I just looked at some prices. 10 Imperial Guardsmen from GW...29.00.

10 Cygnar Long Gunners from PP.....49.99
10 Cygnar Trencher Infantry.....54.99

Damn GW and their high prices. I should make the switch to PP.

As pointed out. 35 points which is respectable for those prices.

Now look at a 1500 point IG army.

Let's make it up entirely of Guardsmen.

Approx. 6 points a piece with no upgrades.

So you g et 60 points per box.

1500/60 = 25 boxes.

Enjoy.

Lanrak wrote:HI all.
GW plc is a corperate buisness that has every right to price its products how it wants and pay as much dividends to share holders as it can justify.

Im going to quote micheal moore here a little. If all they cared about was money they would be selling cocaine.
Obviously the people who work at GW are passionate about wargame. But they are hurting it. Think of GW as a gateway company. they are the biggest and most helpful. they are what get allot of people into a hobby,into a store and then open up a wide world of minis to them. But with high prices som people might never get into it.

DarkStarSabre wrote:

KGatch113 wrote:

I just looked at some prices. 10 Imperial Guardsmen from GW...29.00.

10 Cygnar Long Gunners from PP.....49.99
10 Cygnar Trencher Infantry.....54.99

Damn GW and their high prices. I should make the switch to PP.

As pointed out. 35 points which is respectable for those prices.

Now look at a 1500 point IG army.

Let's make it up entirely of Guardsmen.

Approx. 6 points a piece with no upgrades.

So you g et 60 points per box.

1500/60 = 25 boxes.

Enjoy.

It doesnt matter. 35 points for those prices means Fack all.

PP sets the prices that high because they know people will pay them for GW products so they know people will pay them for their miniatures.

Especially when you can play warmahordes games at any size and you can play 40k games at any size.

They are both still gak VALUE FOR MONEY.

So dont PP Fanboiiiiii to counter his GW Fanboiiiiiii

A lot of the price hike on the new books isn't so much that it's hardback, but that it's in full color compared to previous books. Anyone who has a printer can tell you that that gets expensive.

Hi.
Do we need loads of pretty colour pictures to help us read the rules ?
Oh no, this section of the codex is in boring black and white writing, I could not possibly read this without a colour picture next to it....

Lanrak wrote:Hi.
Do we need loads of pretty colour pictures to help us read the rules ?
Oh no, this section of the codex is in boring black and white writing, I could not possibly read this without a colour picture next to it....

But I think the majority of people who play this game (read: non-tournament gamers) enjoy the pretty pictures and background as much as the game itself. This is why GW refers to people who play the game as "hobbyists"

Gw's annual price increases are in some way related to the way the UK government now works out inflation.

Previously the Government used the Retail Price Index to work out inflation, but they have now changed to using the Consumer Price Index, which has affected inflation across the UK and has had an impact on Retailers.

Costs of goods and services have increased, but inflation is set low and this has an impact on prices.

For a company based in the UK this has a knock on effect globally, and is punishing a lot of businesses here.

GW have apparently factored in a 4-6% percent price rise as they assumed that would be the level of inflation, but of course that has now changed but they have committed themselves.

This is a similar situation for many retailers here.

And of course if VAT keeps changing here that has an impact too.

In terms of army books, i would like them to available in electronic format, preferably with an active search function as finding anything in the books is impossible.

The Necron Codex is like an adventure game book, turn to page X for a rule only to be told to then turn to page Y!! I'm sure they do that so you wear out the spine and the book falls apart, forcing you to buy another one!

I'm sure when I used to play Codex's were £8 and "add-on" ones like the Blood Angels or Space Wolves cost £4.

ReturningPlayer wrote:I'm sure when I used to play Codex's were £8 and "add-on" ones like the Blood Angels or Space Wolves cost £4.

Prior to that they cost about £12-£15. Mind you the second edition codexes were far more meaty, much like the current ones.

Here comes the Doom Sayers saying how bad GW is.

rockerbikie wrote:Here comes the Doom Sayers saying how bad GW is.

Which is an irony in itself coming from an Australian gamer...

rockerbikie wrote:Here comes the Doom Sayers saying how bad GW is.

Compare the £8 3rd edition Codex: Space Marines to a 2nd edition Codex: Ultramarines or Codex: Angels of Death and tell me that one was not siginificantly meatier than the other.

Go on.

I'll be here.

filbert wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Here comes the Doom Sayers saying how bad GW is.

Which is an irony in itself coming from an Australian gamer...

Look I hate the prices but whining won't do anything. It feels like "Not this Thread Again" meme very quickly. I buy stuff from Blackcultist.com.au instead of GW. I don't like the prices but I would be upset if it closed down at the same time. Games Workshop does do alot of good like help with Tournament Prize money and other things. I try to stay positive because I can't do anything about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Here comes the Doom Sayers saying how bad GW is.

Compare the £8 3rd edition Codex: Space Marines to a 2nd edition Codex: Ultramarines or Codex: Angels of Death and tell me that one was not siginificantly meatier than the other.

Go on.

I'll be here.

I did not play 2nd or 3rd edition. I do not know. I want to enjoy what is here and not have a veterm gamer shunt how cheap eveerything was in the past and how I'm getting ripped off. I've been playing 2 years but I still call myself a noob.

I dont often slag off GW with the passion that many people have but I was reading WD and I thought this was a mis-print.

These guys..



£61.50!



thats £12.30 each!

Matty, those guys have been obscenely priced for years.

To give you a brief:
When the Blood Knights were first released with the previous Vampire Counts book, they were available in a box set (same as what's available now) for somewhere in the range of $75 USD or thereabouts.

They were also available in a blister form, with the Castellan(Champion), Standard Bearer, and Musician being available in their own blisters and the standard Knights being available as a random one in a blister.

The models were not like the other "heavy" cavalry of the time(Chaos Knights and Dragon Princes spring to mind), which had some random bits and a piece of a standard Knight model. The steeds were actually full metal, with GW effectively pricing them as "characters".

For some asinine reason, they've continued that pricing. It irks me to no end, especially when you consider that the models aren't even that great, but now I can't even get JUST the Castellan for a Vampire mounted on a Hellsteed.

I did not play 2nd or 3rd edition. I do not know. I want to enjoy what is here and not have a veterm gamer shunt how cheap eveerything was in the past and how I'm getting ripped off. I've been playing 2 years but I still call myself a noob.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/26 17:38:56

I know what you mean, I'm coming back after not playing in around 10 years and it does "blow my buzz" about GW a bit seeing all the slander they receive on here. But this is the internet so I try to take it all with a pinch of salt.



That being said the price of those Undead Knights is astounding.

If you want BloodKnights I think you should look no further than these guys from Gamezone miniatures, 12 euros each

rockerbikie wrote:

filbert wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Here comes the Doom Sayers saying how bad GW is.

Which is an irony in itself coming from an Australian gamer...

Look I hate the prices but whining won't do anything. It feels like "Not this Thread Again" meme very quickly. I buy stuff from Blackcultist.com.au instead of GW. I don't like the prices but I would be upset if it closed down at the same time. Games Workshop does do alot of good like help with Tournament Prize money and other things. I try to stay positive because I can't do anything about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Here comes the Doom Sayers saying how bad GW is.

Compare the £8 3rd edition Codex: Space Marines to a 2nd edition Codex: Ultramarines or Codex: Angels of Death and tell me that one was not siginificantly meatier than the other.

Go on.

I'll be here.

I did not play 2nd or 3rd edition. I do not know. I want to enjoy what is here and not have a veterm gamer shunt how cheap eveerything was in the past and how I'm getting ripped off. I've been playing 2 years but I still call myself a noob.

Ahh don't worry about it my young friend. When you have been around for 10-20 years with GW and they slag you off when you walk into the store you will feel just as jaded as the rest of us. So when a tatical box of marines reaches 100& aus dollars will you still be into playing GW games? How do you feel around there 'stealth increase' on the LotR stuff? GW does alot of odd things that makes its fans go WTF.

Pacific wrote:If you want BloodKnights I think you should look no further than these guys from Gamezone miniatures, 12 euros each

Which comes out to 15 USD...about the same prices as the Blood Knights were when they were available as individual blisters.

Truth be told, I'm thinking of something else. Awhile back, I bought one of the gorgeous zombie dragon kits and through circumstances beyond my control(my brother using one of my dusting rags to mop up brake fluid) it was ruined. The zombie dragon was replaced by said brother, and so I have two riders but one dragon.

Thinking about getting my hands on a Chaos steed and going from there. Something nice, bulky, and drastically evil looking.

Kanluwen wrote:Which comes out to 15 USD...about the same prices as the Blood Knights were when they were available as individual blisters.

BK were avail as blisters? I dont remember how much they cost, but as current BK are $20 each, thats like double the price for inferior sculpt

rockerbikie wrote:Games Workshop does do alot of good like help with Tournament Prize money and other things.

GW has never supplied turnament prize money. They have over the years supplied product to use as tournament prizes (although for one stretch there it was just product supplied at a discount to tournament organisers, rather than donated outright) but I was under the impression that this had stopped several years ago.

Worst titled thread ever.

spireland wrote:Worst titled thread ever.

what do you prefer?

oo price adjustment?

mattyrm wrote: I dont often slag off GW with the passion that many people have but I was reading WD and I thought this was a mis-print.

These guys..



£61.50!



thats £12.30 each!

Jesus Christ I know! 100$?!

You think that’s bad. A single finecast Master of Ravenwing costs $80AUD. The Australian prices for finecast are so high it’s comical.

Shredsmore wrote:Jesus Christ I know! 100$?!

$165 (£112 or US$175) here in Oz.

candy.man wrote:You think that’s bad. A single finecast Master of Ravenwing costs $80AUD. The Australian prices for finecast are so high it’s comical.

Very true. The only Finecast modles I let myself buy are Tyranids, since they average about $40au without a couple of outriders sitting at $60au (one of which I'll never buy anyway).

How is this worth 38 usd?

You would think Finecast would be cheaper to Aussies since its lighter to ship.

And cost less to insure ( resins float incase the cargo sinks LOL )

insaniak wrote:

Shredsmore wrote:Jesus Christ I know! 100$?!

$165 (£112 or US$175) here in Oz.

Are you bloody serious??? That is absolutely obscene. Honestly that is so far beyond my ability to comprehend I am fekking speechless...


WOW.

$165 is pretty hilarious. That works out to $33 per model.

I don't know how anyone can pay those prices and not feel.. I don't know, the kind of guilt that you sometimes have after a night out and are pulling rumpled up card bills from your back pocket.

Perhaps I'm underestimating how much money people generally have to spend on stuff that is for a pleasurable past time, but I don't think I could ever justify it (perhaps short of the miniatures being able to travel under their own power across the tabletop).

It's funny, I know people often try and make comparisons about computer games and how much they cost. But, I would be quite happy to occasionally buy a new game for $40 or so. Something like the model above, no matter how much I liked it, I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that somewhere a cackling leprechaun is sat on a mushroom, carefully counting the bills I have just handed over in the shop.

Pacific wrote:It's funny, I know people often try and make comparisons about computer games and how much they cost. But, I would be quite happy to occasionally buy a new game for $40 or so. Something like the model above, no matter how much I liked it, I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that somewhere a cackling leprechaun is sat on a mushroom, carefully counting the bills I have just handed over in the shop.

Back when I started working full time 5 years ago, I really got "into" video games. I have 4 systems - PC, PS3, PSP and Wii. Including system costs, over 4 years I calculated I'd spent $10,000au. That included a gaming PC, 2 PS3's (one died out of warranty), PSP, Wii, and an average of 25 games per system at discounted (though not half) price, and other costs like additional controllers, full band packs for Guitar Hero/Rock Band, DLC, etc.

Since I got back into this hobby, I've bought about 1500 points worth of Tyranids and VC (points costs in my sig aren't up to date) and started Infinity, grabbed a Battlefoam 1520XL and some customer trays for it, and now I'm buying terrain for a table. Tyranids, Infinity, terrain and 1520xl were all local price. VC's were bought from the UK before the embargo, and additional foam trays ordered from the US.

This has been over 2 years. I doubt I've even breached $1500au. Trust me, I know how expensive video gaming is if you really get into it. It's expensive. There's a reason I now got back into 40k and only buy one game every 6 months or so.

I personally love hard back books, they give a sense of higher quality I find. Of course the price is unjustifiable, just like everything else GW offers. Right now its tough to have a high interest in GW products in Australia, especially after the embargo.

hotsauceman1 wrote:How is this worth 38 usd?

I just noticed that Helborg has the exact same sword that comes with the Empire general sprue...

-Loki- wrote:

Pacific wrote:It's funny, I know people often try and make comparisons about computer games and how much they cost. But, I would be quite happy to occasionally buy a new game for $40 or so. Something like the model above, no matter how much I liked it, I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that somewhere a cackling leprechaun is sat on a mushroom, carefully counting the bills I have just handed over in the shop.

Back when I started working full time 5 years ago, I really got "into" video games. I have 4 systems - PC, PS3, PSP and Wii. Including system costs, over 4 years I calculated I'd spent $10,000au. That included a gaming PC, 2 PS3's (one died out of warranty), PSP, Wii, and an average of 25 games per system at discounted (though not half) price, and other costs like additional controllers, full band packs for Guitar Hero/Rock Band, DLC, etc.

Since I got back into this hobby, I've bought about 1500 points worth of Tyranids and VC (points costs in my sig aren't up to date) and started Infinity, grabbed a Battlefoam 1520XL and some customer trays for it, and now I'm buying terrain for a table. Tyranids, Infinity, terrain and 1520xl were all local price. VC's were bought from the UK before the embargo, and additional foam trays ordered from the US.

This has been over 2 years. I doubt I've even breached $1500au. Trust me, I know how expensive video gaming is if you really get into it. It's expensive. There's a reason I now got back into 40k and only buy one game every 6 months or so.

That is subjective though, how much games you buy is completely up to you.

If we go with what you said of 1 warhammer every 6 month. Then $900 AUD x 2 x 4 years = $7200 AUD lets add unlimited supply of primer and paint and hobby product for an even $8000 AUD
Dunno, but gaming doesnt seem so expensive anymore, and you also get to have nice computer.

LunaHound wrote:If we go with what you said of 1 warhammer every 6 month. Then $900 AUD x 2 x 4 years = $7200 AUD lets add unlimited supply of primer and paint and hobby product for an even $8000 AUD
Dunno, but gaming doesnt seem so expensive anymore, and you also get to have nice computer.

I said 1 game every 6 months. As in a video game.

I don't know how you got anything GW related out of "buy one game every 6 months or so.". I don't go buy a Black Reach box or rulebook ever 6 months.

Generally, I buy something hobby related every couple of months. Whether it's a box of Gaunts, a Carnifex, a new building to build, a few infinity models, whatever. Because I'm trying to keep my painitng up with what I have.

It's hard to do that with video games. Unless you like replaying video games or get stuck into one games multiplayer, these days you go through games relatively quickly. On average, a game lasts me 2 weeks, and that's very conservative playing. I did have multiplayer games that I regularly played - Guild Wars, Counter Strike: Source and Bad Company 2 were my primary games near the end. But I like a good single player game, and these days they last no time at all and aren't replayable outside of trophy hunting, which I don't do. So there's a massively fast recycle rate with video games.

Say I buy a box of Hormagaunts. There's at least a month before they're ready to go on the table. I'm also not cycling them out a month later for a unit of Termagants with Devourers. The only game I've spent more time on than, say, building and painting a squad has been Guild Wars. But it's hard to fight MMOs on time spent playing, and harder still when there' no monthly fee and you notice your account age is about 2500 hours. An average game I'm done with quicker than it takes me to get a unit ready to put on the table, and then it's done - I don't look at it anymore.

So, for me personally, I get far more value out of even GW games, paying local Australian prices. And I know, because I looked at what I'd accumulated over 4 years and decided enough's enough.

That said, can't fething wait for Guild Wars 2. Hobby tme will be gone.

Pacific wrote:I don't know how anyone can pay those prices and not feel.. I don't know, the kind of guilt that you sometimes have after a night out and are pulling rumpled up card bills from your back pocket.

Perhaps I'm underestimating how much money people generally have to spend on stuff that is for a pleasurable past time, but I don't think I could ever justify it (perhaps short of the miniatures being able to travel under their own power across the tabletop).

It's funny, I know people often try and make comparisons about computer games and how much they cost. But, I would be quite happy to occasionally buy a new game for $40 or so. Something like the model above, no matter how much I liked it, I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that somewhere a cackling leprechaun is sat on a mushroom, carefully counting the bills I have just handed over in the shop.

I use rational to justify my purchases. AA good suad depending on how much is in there can give me 20 hours+ of stuff to do. A game for 60$ gives me maybe 8.

-Loki- wrote:

I said 1 game every 6 months. As in a video game.

Sowwy i read wrong. But $10,000 of video games in 4 years is sort of impossible no?

If people want to know the true insanity of GW's prices, i'll give you a strong explaination of detail.

I'm a Australian (proud of it) and i'm a wargamer. It is extremely hard to justify the prices here in the land down under. First, lets take a look at the current AUD dollar to the two biggest wargamer countries in the world. This vaules are from the 27/1/2012

British Pound is worth $0.68 AUD
United States dollar is worth $1.06 AUD

So lets see how much in each country would a box of... oh... Vampire Count Blood Knights go for from the GW's main website.


British price of the unit - $61.50 GBP, equaling $90.99 AUD
US price of the unit - $99.00 USD, equaling $93.26 AUD
Australian price of the unit - $165.00 AUD!

So from shipping from england / united states... you pay a additional 74.01 / 71.74 dollars. No tax nor shipping costs should add such a massive price increase over other countries. How would other countries wargamers cope if they had to buy at AUD prices?

England would have to pay 111.52 GBP
The US would pay 175.15 USD (i'll like to see US sales of this item if they were charged at this price)

This is pretty much price fixing and i'm amazed GW isn't watched and reported by the market watchdog. How do they get away with it? Nintendo did price fixing in the past in 2002, towards europe, and were fined 149 Million euros for price fixing.

Superscope wrote:So lets see how much in each country would a box of... oh... Vampire Count Blood Knights go for from the GW's main website.

That might have been more dramatic if we hadn't just done that on the previous page...


And GW's prices are nothing to do with price fixing. Price Fixing is when competing companies that sell the same product agree to set their prices at the same level. What GW is doing in Australia is not price fixing. It's just setting their prices at a ridiculous level based on an outdated exchange rate and the belief that since Australians have always put up with everything being more expensive than the rest of the world in the past, they'll continue to put up with it now in the face of a worldwide market opening up via the internet and competitors coming out of the woodwork selling product as good or better for a lower price.

Price fixing is illegal. What GW are doing is just stupid.

LunaHound wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

I said 1 game every 6 months. As in a video game.

Sowwy i read wrong. But $10,000 of video games in 4 years is sort of impossible no?

Remember, I'm Australian - whatever you pay across the pond, double it over here. I paid nearly $4000au on just the systems (my PC nearly cost me $2000au (yes, at the time, it was a fething sweet rig), my first PS3 was nearly $800au). Average games were $80au each (I buy pretty much release day, and I dislike trading in games), at least 25 for each system. Beleive me, $10,000au is a conservative figure.

Just wait til GW's annual price rise

Superscope wrote:If people want to know the true insanity of GW's prices, i'll give you a strong explaination of detail.

I'm a Australian (proud of it) and i'm a wargamer. It is extremely hard to justify the prices here in the land down under. First, lets take a look at the current AUD dollar to the two biggest wargamer countries in the world. This vaules are from the 27/1/2012

British Pound is worth $0.68 AUD
United States dollar is worth $1.06 AUD

So lets see how much in each country would a box of... oh... Vampire Count Blood Knights go for from the GW's main website.


British price of the unit - $61.50 GBP, equaling $90.99 AUD
US price of the unit - $99.00 USD, equaling $93.26 AUD
Australian price of the unit - $165.00 AUD!

So from shipping from england / united states... you pay a additional 74.01 / 71.74 dollars. No tax nor shipping costs should add such a massive price increase over other countries. How would other countries wargamers cope if they had to buy at AUD prices?

England would have to pay 111.52 GBP
The US would pay 175.15 USD (i'll like to see US sales of this item if they were charged at this price)

This is pretty much price fixing and i'm amazed GW isn't watched and reported by the market watchdog. How do they get away with it? Nintendo did price fixing in the past in 2002, towards europe, and were fined 149 Million euros for price fixing.

Which totally fails to acknowledge that between a tow thirds and three quarters of retail costs are generated in the country in which the item is sold.

Bear with us in the UK. As soon as we manage to sort out the Eurozone crisis, avoid a double dip recession, manage to grow our economy by more than a single percentage point, slow down the growth in unemployment, end the credit squeeze and return the housing market to growth then the pound will strengthen and although you'll be paying exactly the same number of Aussie Dollars that you have been paying all along, you'll feel better about it.

Thanks for highlighting exactly how much of a crappy time we are having in the UK, while making it about how much you might have to pay for a piece of plastic resin that you might not really want in the first place. Next time someone tells you they have cancer why not try to make them feel better by comparing it to the dilemma that you have over whether to get 3D on your 50" plasma or not.

I'm surprised how many people say you need to spend so much on an army to be able to play, unless a lot has changed since then all you really needed was the rulebook. I remember playing warhammer 40k against my friends on the bedroom floor, no terrain except the plastic tress and ruins that were in the starter set. Neither me nor my friends could afford to have huge armys but the fun was in discussing the game andplaying the game (no matter how small the battles are).

If the rules say you can't play with such small armys then ignore them, if GW won't let you tweak the rules when you play there

And what is the instant rush to get the biggest army possible straight away, if you can afford to then great! More power to you. But a lot of people can't especially students and younger players but you can build your army up over time, you buy a squad of Eldar Guardians or Space Marines and you have them for ever even if a new kit gets released n one is forcing you to buy it.

And I bet a lot of people complaining about the price of GW stuff don't take into account all the things they buy that have a MASSIVE markup. We live in a capatilist society, it has some positives but paying a lot more for something than it's worth is one of it's poor points. Your car, your clothes, fast food, weekly food shopping, the toys you buy for your kids, computers, books, household electrical items, DIY materials and so on. We all pay a lot more for them then they are worth. Nearly everytime you buy something brand new you are getting ripped off according to the definitions set, by people in this thread, for getting ripped off by GW.

I think Loki is right about gaming, you can buy a £1200 desktop computer which will be next to useless for gaming in a few years without more money spent on it. The way games are produced now days mean most have minimalreplayability, the most you can hope for is a good multiplayer community. Just like with GW the price has gone up over the years, imagine how many hours you get out of a game like Baldur's Gate 2 which was a "blockbuster" then compare it to a modern "hit" like MW3, you are getting a lot less for your money. Does anyone here game usign a computer who pays there own bills, has a job (basically isn't a child?) because they will soon tell you how expensive gaming can be.

Also a lot of people spend more than this on drugs, booze and fags in a year than most spend on warhammer in a year. But many young people view going out to the pub, or going clubbing, as a norm of society and worth spending money on. Personally I think it's gak getting gak faced and the pub every. single. night. and even worse going clubbing, standing in a room full of the type of people I hate, music I don't like, turned up so loud I can't talk to anyone, etc isn't my idea of fun. So I don't do it. Why don't the people who have such a problem with GW, for whatever reason, just stop buying it and stop visiting what is supposed to be Warhammer forum?

Of course if you look at GW in a bubble they are evil corporate bad guys who are just out to steal your money. Well they are of course, but try doing all this research and calculations about more than just game companies and you will see that what GW does is common business practice for a lot of large companies. I don't know why people are surprised that small business offer better community support, customer service and prices, it's because they can't afford to take the sales drop that GW can when they make a bad deceison,they have less players to please and companies are often more passionate about whatever their field is when they start out. Is it really THAT surprising?

I've only just returned to the hobby but all this sounds like common sense to me.

P.S Anyone who owns an iPhone and is complaining about GW prices are funny. Do some reaseach into how much they cost Apple.

I understand completely what you mean ReturningPlayer, but I guess it comes down to what the perceived value of something is, and that is going to be different for each of us.
If people in Aus can afford to pay those prices, and feel comfortable doing so, then all power to them.

Again this is a personal thing, but I would find it far easier to justify money spent on the above examples. Even video games, I remember as a child waiting for a new NES game for xmas which cost more than $70, if you want to go with that example. Perhaps the reason being that is something which is an 'accepted value' of such an item, and was the same throughout the industry (even though looking back on it now I shudder to think how I managed to get so much enjoyment from it! ) You could say the same thing for any other industry, generally there is some form of parity across prices - customers expect to pay a certain amount for something - be it cars, computers, bicycles, whatever.

Regarding GW, perhaps it's because I remember a time when prices were so much cheaper, and the fact that rival companies are selling products at a fraction of the price, but I find it hard to swallow GW's current pricing strategy and I question how much damage it will cause to the long-term health of the miniature and wargaming industry. That's possibly why you get new users to the forum occassionally going mental in these threads - they can't wrap their heads around the fact that GW's stuff costs so much more, and so they turn instead to saying that the product is somehow superior - 'it's better quality' or some other unquantifiable measurement, which usually results in a reply of someone posting that picture of the Razorgore saying "I'm a Porsche"
Or it just turns into resentful sniping of other manufacturers, 'knock offs', and attempts to belittle them as somehow something inherently less because it is lacking the 'Citadel Finecast' tag.

The problem is, marking a product as being inherently superior (or perhaps as the only option to the consumer) only works if you can go some of the way towards it being factual, and there is no doubt that the QC issues of Finecast, as well as perennial price increases and the rising popularity of much cheaper rivals (to speak nothing of 'quality') has gone some way to popping that bubble. I think the popularity of buying from ebay, bits sites, internet vendors, and indeed the rise and rise of GWs rivals shows that perhaps I am not alone in thinking this.

If GW was alone within the wargaming market, and there was some kind of price stabilization in line with inflation even for a couple of years, then perhaps there would not be so many people complaining about it.

Pacific wrote:The problem is, marking a product as being inherently superior (or perhaps as the only option to the consumer) only works if you can go some of the way towards it being factual, and there is no doubt that the QC issues of Finecast, as well as perennial price increases and the rising popularity of much cheaper rivals (to speak nothing of 'quality') has gone some way to popping that bubble. I think the popularity of buying from ebay, bits sites, internet vendors, and indeed the rise and rise of GWs rivals shows that perhaps I am not alone in thinking this.

Finecast aside (even as someone who likes it, I wish they'd sort out their casting issues), price and quality is all over the map in this industry, so it seems pretty tough actually saying one company does it better, though GW obviously does it the worst. GW prices high. Privateer Press prices pretty high too, in some cases the same as GW (their metal cavalry pushed Blood Knight pricing). GW's saving grace is they make the only large multipart plastic kits, and they do it really well. Corvus Belli prices pretty low and has models surpassing PP and GW. Mantic prices really low, but their quality is like poop from a butt.

When I see any of GW's competitors get into large multipart plastic kit manufacturing, which is far, far more difficult and expensive than making single pose metals or single pose plastics, I'll start looking a bit more seriously at pricing differences.

I agree that Privateer Press is also getting a bit too expensive. Is it really an unavoidable consequence of the game getting big, and executives getting greedy? Out of interest, are PP privately owned or a company with shares?

It will be interesting to see if Mantic can get off the ground and how much of an impact that they can make. Although the skirmish game market seems to have exploded, they are the only sci-fi/fantasy maker who are taking GW on with larger scale battles.

PP is privately owned and have stated that they’ll never go public.

To an extent I agree that their costs are high although I’ve found this to be solely with their metal kits (their metal kit prices are similar to GW). Their plastic kits (especially the plastic battle boxes) and blister packs are priced very well though. To be fair though, you need less PP purchases to build an army or change up a list. A 25-35pt list will normally set you back between $100-200.

PP is eventually aiming to move most of their core range to plastic. Whenever PP moves a product to plastic, the price is normally dramatically reduced (the plastic khador units released last year are a good example of this). Hopefully Bane Thralls and Trollbloods units get plastic kits as these are probably one of the more expensive and popular kits that PP sells.

When I read how much Aussies had to pay I facepalmed so hard my dog looked at me in Bewilderment.

candy.man wrote:To be fair though, you need less PP purchases to build an army or change up a list.

Shouldn't make difference at all. People sing praises for Corvus Bellis Infinity pricing (and I agree completely with it). I was overjoyed when I bought a metal Hassassin Fiday for $12au. And you only need about 10 models for that game.

Asherian Command wrote:When I read how much Aussies had to pay I facepalmed so hard my dog looked at me in Bewilderment.

Now if even half of the GW fans / white knights knows the price discrepancies they probably wouldn't defend GW

candy.man wrote:
PP is eventually aiming to move most of their core range to plastic. Whenever PP moves a product to plastic, the price is normally dramatically reduced (the plastic khador units released last year are a good example of this). Hopefully Bane Thralls and Trollbloods units get plastic kits as these are probably one of the more expensive and popular kits that PP sells.

Another good example is the plastic Exemplar Errants that were recently announced. A full unit in metal is $68 at rrp (6 figure box + 2 blisters). The new plastic set is $50, with a full unit of 10 miniatures included.

Oh, and the other plastic Menoth infantry kit (C'mon, PP! Give us some plastic Bane Thralls!), Knights Exemplars. Metal at $40, plastic at $35. Both 6 minis.

Now, if I remember correctly, Warjack/Warbeast prices tend to go up when they move from metal to plastic, but I believe that's because they include the arms/weapons/heads for the different jacks/beasts based on that chassis. A quick magnetizing job, and you've got 3 choices from 1 kit.

infinite_array wrote:
Now, if I remember correctly, Warjack/Warbeast prices tend to go up when they move from metal to plastic, but I believe that's because they include the arms/weapons/heads for the different jacks/beasts based on that chassis. A quick magnetizing job, and you've got 3 choices from 1 kit.

They don't. They seem more expensive because PP doesn't updates its prices on older warnouns so the plastic ones, while a bit more expensive then the older metal kits, are allot cheaper than the newer metal warnouns that they replace. You can compare the prices of the metal and plastic warbeasts to prove this if you like.

-Loki- wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

I said 1 game every 6 months. As in a video game.

Sowwy i read wrong. But $10,000 of video games in 4 years is sort of impossible no?

Remember, I'm Australian - whatever you pay across the pond, double it over here. I paid nearly $4000au on just the systems (my PC nearly cost me $2000au (yes, at the time, it was a fething sweet rig), my first PS3 was nearly $800au). Average games were $80au each (I buy pretty much release day, and I dislike trading in games), at least 25 for each system. Beleive me, $10,000au is a conservative figure.

What you're comparing is how much it costs for you alone to get enjoyment out of one or the other. Obviously you're better off playing 40k so long as you don't treat it like you do video games. If you had to have that many different tabletop systems with at least 25 armies for each system (because you can't stay with one for more than two weeks), and forgeworld models for 40k (because you'd rather a "sweet rig" than the bare minimum required to play), I'm pretty sure it would be a lot more than $10k. Likewise, if you treated video games the other way around, you'd probably find that they wouldn't cost nearly $10k. A fair comparison simply can't be made unless you look at both under the same philosophy.

Holdenstein wrote:

Superscope wrote:If people want to know the true insanity of GW's prices, i'll give you a strong explaination of detail.

I'm a Australian (proud of it) and i'm a wargamer. It is extremely hard to justify the prices here in the land down under. First, lets take a look at the current AUD dollar to the two biggest wargamer countries in the world. This vaules are from the 27/1/2012

British Pound is worth $0.68 AUD
United States dollar is worth $1.06 AUD

So lets see how much in each country would a box of... oh... Vampire Count Blood Knights go for from the GW's main website.


British price of the unit - $61.50 GBP, equaling $90.99 AUD
US price of the unit - $99.00 USD, equaling $93.26 AUD
Australian price of the unit - $165.00 AUD!

So from shipping from england / united states... you pay a additional 74.01 / 71.74 dollars. No tax nor shipping costs should add such a massive price increase over other countries. How would other countries wargamers cope if they had to buy at AUD prices?

England would have to pay 111.52 GBP
The US would pay 175.15 USD (i'll like to see US sales of this item if they were charged at this price)

This is pretty much price fixing and i'm amazed GW isn't watched and reported by the market watchdog. How do they get away with it? Nintendo did price fixing in the past in 2002, towards europe, and were fined 149 Million euros for price fixing.

Which totally fails to acknowledge that between a tow thirds and three quarters of retail costs are generated in the country in which the item is sold.

Bear with us in the UK. As soon as we manage to sort out the Eurozone crisis, avoid a double dip recession, manage to grow our economy by more than a single percentage point, slow down the growth in unemployment, end the credit squeeze and return the housing market to growth then the pound will strengthen and although you'll be paying exactly the same number of Aussie Dollars that you have been paying all along, you'll feel better about it.

Thanks for highlighting exactly how much of a crappy time we are having in the UK, while making it about how much you might have to pay for a piece of plastic resin that you might not really want in the first place. Next time someone tells you they have cancer why not try to make them feel better by comparing it to the dilemma that you have over whether to get 3D on your 50" plasma or not.

The price difference has nothing to do with the European Financial Troubles, so WTF BRING IT UP? It has no bearing on the topic as GW pricing has been this way for years. They don't price with regards to global financial troubles.

Our strong economy has merely served to highlight the ridiculous price gap that has been around for many many years

Cadorius wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

I said 1 game every 6 months. As in a video game.

Sowwy i read wrong. But $10,000 of video games in 4 years is sort of impossible no?

Remember, I'm Australian - whatever you pay across the pond, double it over here. I paid nearly $4000au on just the systems (my PC nearly cost me $2000au (yes, at the time, it was a fething sweet rig), my first PS3 was nearly $800au). Average games were $80au each (I buy pretty much release day, and I dislike trading in games), at least 25 for each system. Beleive me, $10,000au is a conservative figure.

What you're comparing is how much it costs for you alone to get enjoyment out of one or the other. Obviously you're better off playing 40k so long as you don't treat it like you do video games. If you had to have that many different tabletop systems with at least 25 armies for each system (because you can't stay with one for more than two weeks), and forgeworld models for 40k (because you'd rather a "sweet rig" than the bare minimum required to play), I'm pretty sure it would be a lot more than $10k. Likewise, if you treated video games the other way around, you'd probably find that they wouldn't cost nearly $10k. A fair comparison simply can't be made unless you look at both under the same philosophy.

Agreed.

And what 25 Wii games could you possibly buy?

ChocolateGork wrote:

Holdenstein wrote:

Superscope wrote:

British Pound is worth $0.68 AUD
United States dollar is worth $1.06 AUD
.

Which totally fails to acknowledge that between a tow thirds and three quarters of retail costs are generated in the country in which the item is sold.

Bear with us in the UK. As soon as we manage to sort out the Eurozone crisis, avoid a double dip recession, manage to grow our economy by more than a single percentage point, slow down the growth in unemployment, end the credit squeeze and return the housing market to growth then the pound will strengthen and although you'll be paying exactly the same number of Aussie Dollars that you have been paying all along, you'll feel better about it.

Thanks for highlighting exactly how much of a crappy time we are having in the UK, while making it about how much you might have to pay for a piece of plastic resin that you might not really want in the first place. Next time someone tells you they have cancer why not try to make them feel better by comparing it to the dilemma that you have over whether to get 3D on your 50" plasma or not.

The price difference has nothing to do with the European Financial Troubles, so WTF BRING IT UP? It has no bearing on the topic as GW pricing has been this way for years. They don't price with regards to global financial troubles.

Our strong economy has merely served to highlight the ridiculous price gap that has been around for many many years
?

The current price difference has everything to do with the current financial troubles in the UK and Europe. If the Pound and Euro weren't currently circling around the toilet bowl then the massive price differentials that you see wouldn't exist. The entire original comparison (which conveniently ignores local distribution and retail costs) is based on it, and by and large those increases in prices only come to light when you do that sort of analysis. The AUD prices have only gone up by the same as the rest of the world since 2008.

Back in the late nineties, when the UK dodged a global recession things were good here and the pound was strong. The result was that we ended up paying approximately double for computer games over here than they were paying in the US. My advice is to enjoy your strong currency rather than moan about it. If history repeats itself than in 10 years time you're in for a heck of a recession.

Watched an interview with Dennis Potter last night (English playwright who has been dead for some years), and he came out with an interesting quote: "A lack of nostalgia is in some ways an acceptance of the orthodoxy of the present."

Anyway..

DoctorCheese wrote:So for many years we've seen annual price raises of GW products during the middle of each year. (July, right?)
Do you guys think they'll have another one this year? I mean jesus christ, a box of 20 clanrats is going to end up costing 35€ in no time.
If there is another price raise, I'm seriously considering letting this hobby go completely.

My answer to DoctorCheese's question from a thread he opened (now closed): Does the pope gak in the woods?

UK inflation has been running at 4-5% at least during 2011 so for that reason alone, I'm sure there will be a price hike.

Then again, if inflation was zero or even negative, I'm sure there would be a price hike...

Asherian Command wrote:When I read how much Aussies had to pay I facepalmed so hard my dog looked at me in Bewilderment.

I get stuff from Blackcultist.com.au instead of GW.

filbert wrote:UK inflation has been running at 4-5% at least during 2011 so for that reason alone, I'm sure there will be a price hike.

Then again, if inflation was zero or even negative, I'm sure there would be a price hike...

The problem is, name one other company within the industry that has a perennial price rise?

We lament the situation of Australians, but really they are only a few years ahead of the curve.

Ninja price hike in Jan for LOTR, I supposed GW did it before the Feb WD issues xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

No, we have internet we dont live in the stone age GW

Shredsmore wrote:

I just noticed that Helborg has the exact same sword that comes with the Empire general sprue...

I heard that there will be a price rise in March

Arm.chair.general wrote:I heard that there will be a price rise in March

Piss off more customers? Force players to move to other game systems? Make the initial start up cost-hurdle even higher? Surely you jest... GW would never do that.

Wasn't it in April last year?

GW annual price hike has usually been at May.

Really, whining about GW pricing and how they're destroying themselves was kinda funny and original subject for the first million threads or so, but after that it has got kinda old. So maybe let it be until they actually do rise their prices again.

Backfire wrote:GW annual price hike has usually been at May.

Really, whining about GW pricing and how they're destroying themselves was kinda funny and original subject for the first million threads or so, but after that it has got kinda old. So maybe let it be until they actually do rise their prices again.

You mean like they did last week?

Very interesting. I've just wondered into this conversation and had a flick through the posts. What grabbed my attention was the cost of a Codex, £20. I thought you have to be joking, but no, I checked the GW website and there it was.

As I've mentioned before, I left tabletop gaming about 3 years ago, so don't really have an axe to grind one way or another. What I am starting to get back into is role playing and one of the games I'm interested in is Dresden Files. Now I'm pretty certain that the fan base for Dresden Files is going to be some what smaller than GW, so they are likely to sell less units than GW. So with this in mind I give you the following:

Amazon price for the core rule book: £33.32 and is hardback. With what is is made up of from a review:

This is definitely the heaviest book in my roleplaying collection, and every page has been lovingly bound, stitched and glued into the heavyduty spine. No pages falling out randomly from this beauty, no matter how often you leave it laying wide open on the floor. One of the few hardbooks I've seen where doing so is easy and doesn't require some sort of heavy weight on it to stop pages trying to turn over and close, perfect for a reference book. Laminated, full-colour and the content is the best roleplaying game I've ever played. Currently we are translating our long-running Fireborn campaign over to this system, which has been surprisingly easy. Lots of thumbs up, and the system is great too.

Another example is the World of Darkness rule book, again it's hardback and is £14.99. Same fan base restrictions as most RPGs.

To me it's stating the obvious, stating something that I've believed for a long time, that GW are over priced and there is no justification for it. They know they can charge what they want and people will pay it.

If people want to pay the prices that's down to them, it's their hobby, but that doesn't change the fact that they are ripping people off... and yes we all know they aren't a charity and they have to make money, but that argument does not let them of the hook of taking advantage of their customers.