Read this article on the BBC news website the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16503443

To sum up - companies are beginning to market 3D printers for use in the home - the idea being that kids can design their own toys and 'print' them using similar technology to that already widely used in prototyping. The interesting idea is that if you can design something or buy existing designs- kids may never have to buy toys again - they just download the design and the printer makes it.

Could this be the future for wargaming minis? Could it be that in ten years time GW don't actually sell any models at all but simply the designs which you download and make yourself? We're obviously a little way off this yet - but maybe in the future?

It depends on several factors.

1. Low cost of printers and media.
2. Ability actually to print the kind of models people want (fineness of detail, undercuts, etc.)
3. Durability of the printed material.
4. Origination costs.

The printers themselves are being marketed at over £1000 - but of course as with all things prices will drop eventually. As for quality - from what little I've seen of 3D printing the material is a bit rough in terms of it's finish but it is quite robust.

I had read about this somewhere else, and I had a similar thought. There are several problems with it at the moment, First is that they cannot produce the level of detail that most gamers would find acceptable, Second is the legal grey area that exists around such a thing ( the chapter house suit could have a major impact on this).

In a few years this technology may be used to a great extent, legal issues aside, it really would depend on the cost of implementation and access (paid or unpaid) to the blueprints.

It could be, but not for quite some time. The advances in 3D printing have come along very quickly though.

I am guessing that within the next 5-7 years the prices of desktop 3D printers will be affordable for moderate income families AND have the quality to produce items of respectable quality. Maybe not quality enough for our needs in actual man size minis, but vehicle models will be totally feasible.

Brother SRM wrote:It could be, but not for quite some time. The advances in 3D printing have come along very quickly though.

I've been tracking this stuff for years.
http://bioartificialorgans.net/

If they can make certain organs with a printer, they can make a printer right now and in high quality for models.

It is a supply/demand, R&D costs, return on their initial investment and profit margin that keeps this from hitting the masses right now.

But in the near future it will happen.

I've thought about this ever since Figureprints hit the market for world of warcraft a few years ago. I got one about 4 years ago and while it looks great, it's not suitable for wargaming.

The idea of creating miniatures in 3d and printing them in full color is fascinating. The tech already exists, it's a matter of expense. Many companies are already using 3d printing to design and make their mold masters from. I imagine as costs come down and familiarity with the medium goes up it will be much more popular, but I don't see it happening for quite a few years and even then I doubt it will be terribly common. It will still require some skill to produce the 3d models. There's already a lot of miniatures around on shapeways, I'd imagine something similar where you upload your own designs and then print them out yourself at home becoming popular.

I can't imagine them being used in the home (they said that about home computers though) as most people don't have a use for them.

But what you will have, and there are a few appearing already, are sites where people will upload a cad design and others can pay for a company to print them off and post them to you. The designer will probably get paid a tiny amount and the company get the rest.

Might by a nice earner for people who create something popular and upload it. Expect everyone to by churning out custom parts.

But I would say a few years before it gets really popular, then Dakka will probably have to open a new section on this forum just for people to discuss and share their 3D designs.

2D printers have been around for ages but when you want a book you don't print the pdf off, you buy it.

I can see that continuing in 3D.

rob-or-ross wrote:2D printers have been around for ages but when you want a book you don't print the pdf off, you buy it.

I can see that continuing in 3D.

Thats a good point .

3D printing of models may be a Niche market perhaps , depends much on the quality and definition possible but who knows ?

Wont we already need the matter?
What if they use laser to sculpt out with home priinters?
that would be cool.

Many of the 3rd party resin companies are already using this technology to design and print master models to be cast. It is still cost prohibitive to print for resale, but it is already cheaper and faster to render a 3D sculpt on the computer and print it vs paying a Greenstuff sculptor.

This is the future, lads! We're on our way to transporting physical mater across the internet! You'll be able to have a cheeseburger pop out of a box in your office, and guns delivered to your living room in a matter of seconds!

Very cool. I want to make dinosaurs

You can print models now for reasonable cost, but the printer costs are still very high. The 3d printer that GW have (or one of them) is a photosensitive resin printer (solidifies resin with light), has amazing resolution, but the photosensitive resin is about €300/kg which means an average model costs between €5-25, not counting machine costs, etc.

It is only going to get cheaper though, and I'd be surprised if it was not possible within 5 years to do it at home for similar costs to new finecast models. A lot of resins give off nasty stuff when solidifying though, so getting around that problem will add a few more years before it is a truly sound option for home printing. Either way, it is something that needs to be in the business plan of all high end model companies as it will sting when it takes off.

Remember, while everyone supposedly can print at home, these models still rely on artists which most people are not.

Artists currently sculpt awesome Wargaming models because they can have copyrights and get paid. Since right now it is a physical medium, apart from illegal recasting most times mini companies can produce a good sculpt, make products and earn money.

When this goes all electronic, if people don't respect copyrights, sure we will all be able to print stuff, but no one will be making anything worth printing due to theft. Unless we all play marines where a 3d model of a robotic suit can be a passable miniature, it is going to take skilled artists to make 3d renders of living organisms that look good enough to print. And I doubt 3d scanners will be able to capture sculpts detail well enough.

I think people are excited about 3d printing for the wrong reasons, mainly theft, free 3d models and cheap armies, all of which may not be reality. Artists should be paid for their work regardless if it is physical models or virtual models. I would love to print out a virtual ork I built then paint it, but not at the expense of the artists who created the 3d models I use to do it.

nkelsch wrote:Remember, while everyone supposedly can print at home, these models still rely on artists which most people are not.

Artists currently sculpt awesome Wargaming models because they can have copyrights and get paid. Since right now it is a physical medium, apart from illegal recasting most times mini companies can produce a good sculpt, make products and earn money.

When this goes all electronic, if people don't respect copyrights, sure we will all be able to print stuff, but no one will be making anything worth printing due to theft. Unless we all play marines where a 3d model of a robotic suit can be a passable miniature, it is going to take skilled artists to make 3d renders of living organisms that look good enough to print. And I doubt 3d scanners will be able to capture sculpts detail well enough.

I think people are excited about 3d printing for the wrong reasons, mainly theft, free 3d models and cheap armies, all of which may not be reality. Artists should be paid for their work regardless if it is physical models or virtual models. I would love to print out a virtual ork I built then paint it, but not at the expense of the artists who created the 3d models I use to do it.

3d scanning can already capture standard models in full detail, but it is about £10K for the scanner and more for the software. I keep an interest due to trying to stay on the cutting edge of all game changing technologies, and once the cat is out of the bag, there will really need to be a lot of adaptation from the big model makers. Following the music model of legal purchasable licences of sculpts is probably going to be the best way to go long term, coupled with the general good nature of the 70% or so of veteran wargamers who dont pirate heavily (based on an old dakka poll). The finecast model as it is today will not survive in a perfect 3D printing world without significant reductions in price, increases in quality and a much bigger perception of value/better purchasing experience.

You can already get desktop scanners for a similar sort of price. Ok they can only scan things about the size of a mug, but that's more than enough. I think this tech will have the same effect as the internet had. It will allow people to turn their ideas in reality.

There are plenty of free 3d models out there and you can get cheap enough Poser / Daz models as well. All it needs is for the 3d format used by the printers to be supported, or a plugin made and off you go. Create and modify your model in Poser / Daz, export it, email it to your local 3d printer guy, job done. You'll be able to create characters for your RPG or skirmish game, in 28mm or 52mm. On top of this you can buy props and scenery for Poser / Daz as well, so that's something else to print off.

Yes I agree it's not cost effective yet, but it will be.

nkelsch wrote:Remember, while everyone supposedly can print at home, these models still rely on artists which most people are not.

This is a valid point, but if anybody has used CAD then they'll know that once you can do the basics, to create something in 3D on the screen would be relatively straight forward - you wouldn't therefore necessarily need to be a talented artist - you'd just need the idea to start with. A few people have mentioned one thing that would be a real minefield and that is the legality and copyright issues. Unlike blatently recasting a mini which isn't legal, if you redesigned, for instance, a space marine with slightly different armour, in a unique pose - where do you then stand?

I have opened the can - let the worms crawl forth!

Looks like someone is already planning ahead: http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2012/01/16/54082/

Yes, it looks like they're already getting the ball rolling. It just remains to be seen how this takes off, and if it will be for better or for worse.

rob-or-ross wrote:2D printers have been around for ages but when you want a book you don't print the pdf off, you buy it.

I can see that continuing in 3D.

Disagree.

The reason you don't see many home-printed books is because you can't really print a PDF and have a book. You print the PDF and you have a large conglomeration of paper that is unbound and loose. You have a number of different options at this point:

-Hole Punch and 3-ring binder (bad idea, as 3-hole punch pages are at best temporary, and will eventually fall apart with even mild use.
-Use Page protectors. (A lot of work, given you have to individually slide each page into the protector. Plus Protectors aren't cheap)
-Take it to be bound at Fedex/Kinkos.

Also, by the time you've printed, and managed to bind a book, you've invested a good amount of time, and effort into it, and unless you have access to cheap printing, you have probably found yourself at close to the price of the physical book.

With 3d printing, this isn't really an issue for figures. Right now (liable to change) most printing material plastics are fairly cheap ($30/lb for one systems plastic). For comparison, the assault on black reach box weighs in at 2.4 pounds, including the box, the excess sprue plastic, and other things. Black reach is already considered a good model/$$ deal, it would be @ $30/lb even cheaper. Also, unlike a printed pdf, a printed model is just as, if not more complete than a bought in the box model. You MAY still have to paint it (debatable, given that there are some 3d printers that can print in multi-color). As such, for an arguably cheaper cost, you could print the models and have them table ready nearly straight from the printer.

monkeyh wrote:

nkelsch wrote:Remember, while everyone supposedly can print at home, these models still rely on artists which most people are not.

This is a valid point, but if anybody has used CAD then they'll know that once you can do the basics, to create something in 3D on the screen would be relatively straight forward - you wouldn't therefore necessarily need to be a talented artist - you'd just need the idea to start with. !

That is really not true. You still need to be a pretty good artist to sculpt something in 3D. It isn't very straight forward at all and most people do not have the talent for it (and even more importantly most people will not dedicate the time to get it done). The future will be in artists selling a license to print a certain amount of a miniature. Of course many people will just scan in stuff and print for free so that will prove to be a challenge to the industry.


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Itybih2ku wrote:

rob-or-ross wrote:2D printers have been around for ages but when you want a book you don't print the pdf off, you buy it.

I can see that continuing in 3D.

Disagree.

The reason you don't see many home-printed books is because you can't really print a PDF and have a book. You print the PDF and you have a large conglomeration of paper that is unbound and loose. You have a number of different options at this point:

-Hole Punch and 3-ring binder (bad idea, as 3-hole punch pages are at best temporary, and will eventually fall apart with even mild use.
-Use Page protectors. (A lot of work, given you have to individually slide each page into the protector. Plus Protectors aren't cheap)
-Take it to be bound at Fedex/Kinkos.

Also, by the time you've printed, and managed to bind a book, you've invested a good amount of time, and effort into it, and unless you have access to cheap printing, you have probably found yourself at close to the price of the physical book.

With 3d printing, this isn't really an issue for figures. Right now (liable to change) most printing material plastics are fairly cheap ($30/lb for one systems plastic). For comparison, the assault on black reach box weighs in at 2.4 pounds, including the box, the excess sprue plastic, and other things. Black reach is already considered a good model/$$ deal, it would be @ $30/lb even cheaper. Also, unlike a printed pdf, a printed model is just as, if not more complete than a bought in the box model. You MAY still have to paint it (debatable, given that there are some 3d printers that can print in multi-color). As such, for an arguably cheaper cost, you could print the models and have them table ready nearly straight from the printer.

Another point in support of your argument is that it often isn't much cheaper to print out the book when you consider the cost of the ink and paper. With miniatures it is starting to look like it will be cheaper to scan and print out a miniature (especially GW ones). The problem for this technology is that it may not be cheaper to print out historical miniatures which, especially in plastic, are relatively cheap.

Keep in mind. We are thinking in terms of "traditional" modeling techniques as well.

Once we are in the realm of 3d printing, we can open up a whole slew of options. Look at how 3d models are done in games. They don't create 500 different sculpts of an individual character, they create 1 character, articulate him, and create other things to be put onto him.

A Miniature game could do the same thing. Instead of selling models, sell a program, then sell the updates for the models. The model comes with your base model (say an orc boy). Articulate him so that he can be posed any number of different ways.(arms folded across chest, raised in an I surrender pose, etc.) Give him multiple heads to choose from, then different outfits, weapons, and even base decorations like rocks. The sort of thing you can do in MMO character creation to some extent. At this point players could have much more control over the look of their models, and at the same time, there would still be a high level of IP control.

When that is all done, create an "export to CAD file" option, viola! Unique models

Itybih2ku wrote:
Once we are in the realm of 3d printing, we can open up a whole slew of options. Look at how 3d models are done in games. They don't create 500 different sculpts of an individual character, they create 1 character, articulate him, and create other things to be put onto him.

A Miniature game could do the same thing. Instead of selling models, sell a program, then sell the updates for the models. The model comes with your base model (say an orc boy). Articulate him so that he can be posed any number of different ways.(arms folded across chest, raised in an I surrender pose, etc.) Give him multiple heads to choose from, then different outfits, weapons, and even base decorations like rocks. The sort of thing you can do in MMO character creation to some extent. At this point players could have much more control over the look of their models, and at the same time, there would still be a high level of IP control.

When that is all done, create an "export to CAD file" option, viola! Unique models

This post leads me to believe you have no idea what you're talking about. Rigging a model for articulation is difficult, posing the model properly after rigging is only slightly easier. Being able to swap out parts will involve heavy resculpting, as you will not otherwise be able to create a printable solid. FInally, there is no such thing as an 'export to CAD file' button. Its a process that requires a fair amount of engineering know-how to get things to work properly.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Itybih2ku wrote:
Once we are in the realm of 3d printing, we can open up a whole slew of options. Look at how 3d models are done in games. They don't create 500 different sculpts of an individual character, they create 1 character, articulate him, and create other things to be put onto him.

A Miniature game could do the same thing. Instead of selling models, sell a program, then sell the updates for the models. The model comes with your base model (say an orc boy). Articulate him so that he can be posed any number of different ways.(arms folded across chest, raised in an I surrender pose, etc.) Give him multiple heads to choose from, then different outfits, weapons, and even base decorations like rocks. The sort of thing you can do in MMO character creation to some extent. At this point players could have much more control over the look of their models, and at the same time, there would still be a high level of IP control.

When that is all done, create an "export to CAD file" option, viola! Unique models

This post leads me to believe you have no idea what you're talking about. Rigging a model for articulation is difficult, posing the model properly after rigging is only slightly easier. Being able to swap out parts will involve heavy resculpting, as you will not otherwise be able to create a printable solid. FInally, there is no such thing as an 'export to CAD file' button. Its a process that requires a fair amount of engineering know-how to get things to work properly.

I think you are missing the point. I didn't say it would be easy, or that I could whip it up over the weekend. I said THEY (GW) could create such a program. Are you telling me that its impossible to create such a program?

The programming required to create something like that would cost more than GW could afford. We're talking about a multi-million dollar piece of software that would probably revolutionize the entire 3d modeling industry.

I've used 3D printers and modelling software a lot in the past, they are WAY too expensive for it to be more effective than injection molding is, the production rates suck, you could whip out prototypes but you are limited to one model at a time and the quality you get is less detailed than injection molding (save seamlines)


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chaos0xomega wrote:The programming required to create something like that would cost more than GW could afford. We're talking about a multi-million dollar piece of software that would probably revolutionize the entire 3d modeling industry.

The software is pretty cheap, Autodesk makes some nice stuff, it's the hardware that costs big bucks

Itybih2ku wrote:I think you are missing the point. I didn't say it would be easy, or that I could whip it up over the weekend. I said THEY (GW) could create such a program. Are you telling me that its impossible to create such a program?

I hate to agree with chaos0xomega even slightly, but it does sound like you don't know what you are talking about.

There is absolutely no reason why GW would ever make this program. Here are the major reasons why this will never happen:

1. Pirating. If GW released a program that would enable you to 3d print any GW unit, with full potability, GW would never sell a single model for the rest of their short remainder of existence.
2. Price and expertise. GW is not invested in making advanced computer programs. They could never do it, and if they did it would require millions of dollars and an outside company to get made. Think of how many models go into the game Space Marine by THQ. Now imagine if you had to make hundreds times as many models, with full ranges of wargear. Do you think that is affordable to make?
3. Ease of use. I have extensive experience in 3d modeling. Give your average user a fully complete model with proper geometry, skin mesh that follows the skeleton, and they will still not be able to make it into a cool pose. As it turns out just because you have a fully articulated model, does not mean you have the skills to make it into a natural looking pose. And to have every pose built in? Madness. Even more cost.
4. Money. If GW made this program, they would go out of business within a year. Period.


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Squidmanlolz wrote:The software is pretty cheap, Autodesk makes some nice stuff, it's the hardware that costs big bucks

First off, 3ds or ProE isn't exactly cheap. Assuming you can take existing 3d software and easily make an easy to use interface for posing 3d warhammer models is not feasible. Why would Autodesk sell this special, high-development-cost 3d modeling software extension at anything less than an exorbitant price? 3ds costs thousands of dollars for one copy of the professional license.


EDIT: and finally, 3d printing techniques that have high enough resolution for printing detailed models are prohibitively expensive and will remain so for some time. Also, the materials usable are not the same as those usable by conventional injection mold casting.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

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chaos0xomega wrote:The programming required to create something like that would cost more than GW could afford. We're talking about a multi-million dollar piece of software that would probably revolutionize the entire 3d modeling industry.

The software is pretty cheap, Autodesk makes some nice stuff, it's the hardware that costs big bucks

Unless you're talking about student licenses, a lot of this software costs 500+ dollars for a license, more often than not its 1k+, but thats not what I'm talking about. I was referring to a very specific piece of software with a specific feature set that does not currently exist (being able to heavily modify a pre-rigged 3d model and have it able to print a valid solid without any special design training or engineering knowledge, etc.)

chaos0xomega wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:

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chaos0xomega wrote:The programming required to create something like that would cost more than GW could afford. We're talking about a multi-million dollar piece of software that would probably revolutionize the entire 3d modeling industry.

The software is pretty cheap, Autodesk makes some nice stuff, it's the hardware that costs big bucks

Unless you're talking about student licenses, a lot of this software costs 500+ dollars for a license, more often than not its 1k+, but thats not what I'm talking about. I was referring to a very specific piece of software with a specific feature set that does not currently exist (being able to heavily modify a pre-rigged 3d model and have it able to print a valid solid without any special design training or engineering knowledge, etc.)

Ok, my bad, I was talking from GW, or another producer's stand-point, where people would have the required experience and 1k+ is a small investment

I see there are lots of reasons why this is CURRENTLY a no goer. The point is though, like most technology, currently it's prohibitively expensive - but after time costs will decrease and the process will improve(for example - when DVD players first arrived they cost hundreds of pounds and would only play a disk from a particular region - now you can buy one for about £30 and it will play loads of different disk formats) - so I still think there's possibly a future in this. As mentioned earlier I think the technology will eventually come - but the copyright issue could be a different problem altogether.

Brother SRM wrote:It could be, but not for quite some time. The advances in 3D printing have come along very quickly though.

Now that the bulk of patents relating to the technology have expired prices are plummeting as many more companies get into the game. This will, most likely, rapidly accelerate development of the technology.

I'm just about to get mine working in my basement . Definitely not suitable for minis, but with some sanding I think you could make some cool terrain.


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And it's working! My first decent print

THat my friend is the sign of things to come and they will. Every company is looking for a way to make money and 3d printing is a brand new area to be exploited. Quality is going to improve at a fast rate and prices will drop and then we will see some interesting times. I would imagine GW have got their head in the sand thinking the same thing, the quality isn't there and it's too expensive... they are going to come to work oneday and somebody is going to show them a picture of a model they got of a forum like this and it will be "oh bugger!" time.

@ RiTides - Keep up the good work - You are a true pioneer!

@ Wolfstan - Agreed.

I dunno, everytime I see threads like this I just nod my head in disappoint at how naive people can be about this. 3d modeling is not easy to learn by any means, theres a reason why skilled digital artists can take home starting salaries in the high 5 digit/low 6 digit range. The people with these skills are not going to simply post design files online, especially when they could make much much more selling you the models themselves.

and before anyone links to the company thats selling their design files online right now, I suggest you look closely at the models, they aren't particularly good... they're actually pretty bad, thats like 15 minutes in sketchup bad...

I've been working with 3d CAD and printing a fair amount of stuff. Granted I've been outsourcing my printing as I can't afford my own machine but it does work quite well for making master models. It does take some fine sanding and clean up but they can come out pretty awesome.

I think we are maybe 5 years or less from having machines that will print at this quality in home. There are already sites that allow you to purchase 3d meshes for download, some are incredibly good but most are meant for animation or display so aren't suitable for printing, however as printing becomes more common I expect to see simular sites catering to printable models. Heck if there was a user market right now I'd rather sell the files than mess around with making actual casts, it's much easier to create a digital download site and let people buy and print stuff themself. It's going to happen soon it's just a waiting ame until the printers drop cheap enough.

Model on the right is the 3d print (model is 50m tall)




Model on the right is a resin cast of the cleaned up print

OK chaos0xomega I'll not disagree with you (I'm not all that up on my 3D), but my point originally was that some companies are beginning to push this, and whilst it is still in it's infancy - is expensive and not great quality, time will improve that so maybe sometime in the future you could buy minis by downloading a programme and making them yourself?

The technology isn't currently at the point where it is useful to start scanning GW sprues and going hog wild but I could see someone scanning in Titan or Thunderhawk components. Still, making your own large model in a 3d design program and then printing it out (sold or in pieces) would be a game changer.

@paulson games - those robots look pretty good - so there's proof of the feasability - it just needs to be a bit better quality (so no sanding etc) and affordable. 5 years doesn't sound unrealistic to me.

Breotan wrote:The technology isn't currently at the point where it is useful to start scanning GW sprues and going hog wild but I could see someone scanning in Titan or Thunderhawk components. Still, making your own large model in a 3d design program and then printing it out (sold or in pieces) would be a game changer.

Printing out a warhound titan sized object would actually cost several times more than the warhound itself (unless you did a significant redesign to hollow lots of things out, but you would have to do some really creative engineering there...), so im not sure how feasible that is.

monkeyh wrote:@paulson games - those robots look pretty good - so there's proof of the feasability - it just needs to be a bit better quality (so no sanding etc) and affordable. 5 years doesn't sound unrealistic to me.

There are several companies that currently offer that level of printing, it's a matter of price and also rquires the models be built in CAD a particular way.

High end printers require that the entire mesh be a single object where many lower end printers can have the model made of multiple meshes. It's not a huge deal to do but the model needs to be built from thre ground up with that process in mind.

The higher end printing which I'm testing out runs about 2-3 times what my previous projects have but in theory it should be ready to go without any sanding or cleaning work.

Printing out a warhound titan sized object would actually cost several times more than the warhound itself (unless you did a significant redesign to hollow lots of things out, but you would have to do some really creative engineering there...), so im not sure how feasible that is.

Many commercial printers have programs that let them set large models as hollow by default, so it's already in place. They aren't truely hollow unles sthey have an opening to the exterior of the model, but the inner material is done as a special format so it uses only about 20-30% of the material that a normal wall or surface would take. That way it saves tons on material usage and time needed for the print. It still needs a sponge like structure inside to help it support the build as it's being constructed. Once the item is complete the inner material can be removed safely or just left in place.

Something the size of a titan is however still very expensive, like 2-3 times what buying one would cost. As the technology improves I think that will change and it'll become much more affordable. I've gotten quotes for a model the size of a warhound for about $1K.

I could see a hybrid print process working rather well, a low resolution printer to do the bulk of the build with fat stepping, and then a fine layer printer head applying a final high res layer over the top with very thin stepping or no visable stepping at all. Not a machine currently on the market but I'm sure some gearhead will make one soon enough.

RiTides wrote:I'm just about to get mine working in my basement . Definitely not suitable for minis, but with some sanding I think you could make some cool terrain.


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And it's working! My first decent print

I would love to see what a makerbot print would look like with a standard sized figure. You might be able to find a space marine cad file. You could definitely get a cad file of a Skeleton, and then might be able to print it at scale.

I'm just insanely curious what the end result would look like. (Plus, since the x,y have a different resolution than the Z, printing a figure horizontally might produce better results than printing them vertically. (I.E. print the figure "laying down" instead of "Standing up".

A friend has done some gaming minis on a machine similar to a makerbot, and the technology has definite limitations. From what he's said, most of the current 'cheap' machines only lay done one material, so you can't do 'overhangs' easily: you have to let the software design a honeycomb-esque support structure.

still, very cool tech, and it might become an issue in 5-10 years.

I can burn a DVD, Doesn't mean I can make a 300mil dollar movie to put on that DVD.

The issue is people don't want 'generic 3D model downloaded from the open source 3D model site'. They want a perfect recreation and scan of a Games Workshop Space Marine. It has already been said multiple times as the first thing you guys go to is 'someone' illegally scanning in GW's most expensive model they make so you can have it at home, for free.

Paulson's example is a good one, but the issue is 'scanning' makes derivative works. Tracing and plotting makes derivative works. If you can make 3D models which are unique, from scratch that people want to buy or you want to give away from free, then the system works. The problem boils down to people do not want those models. They want GW official renders, but because it is the internet, they will steal it. A 3d CAD of a space marine goes from FAN ART to Theft the second you use it to print a 3D model and distribute or sell it in any way.

Personally, I hope we get to a point where this technology is used. I like the idea of dynamic, super looking, multipose models without them being 10+ bitz for a infantry model who shatters into dozen of glue-snapped parts when it drops. Single-piece models are really great. If I could pay a service to take a 3D render of a character or model I like, adjust his pose, weapons and other goodies into a pose, have him printed and paint, A great service has been done to my gamer side even if the model cost the exact same cost of what it does now.

The components which I see everyone drooling over involves Piracy of super expensive 3D software, theft of artists 3d renders, and copyright infringement of artists and copies copyrights as models are scanned into 3D and redistributed. This practically means companies will need to keep 3d renders locked down as trade secrets and provide prints as a service at the beginning of this model. GW stores would probably become like 'build a bear' and have you come in and build your unit with a redshirt and then print it in-store. None of this means LAWL FREE SPERCE MERINE!

Years ago before Autodesk bought them out the makers of 3d Max had a couple of products, one was called Plasma and the other began with a G and one of those was free. There are also other free or less expensive 3d packages out there. So it's not a case of if, but when.

If there is a marketing for it someone will release a package just for use with 3d printers. I don't anybody with any common sense thinks that this will give you the option to make free Space marines, but it will potentially blow the market place wide open. You think GW has problems with Chapterhouse making models of characters they haven't gotten around to yet? Just wait and see what happens with this technology, GW will need to be quick or they will be dead. Somebody somewhere will invest, to them a small amount of £5000, and set themselves up, once that's done they could produce ranges that GW haven't bothered with. Ok, they may cost more than normal figures, but they will be available and gamer's will buy them.

Don't underestimate the passion some people have for these games, i.e. the willingness to spend time on 3D models and not see a profit off it. I spend time after regular hours at work using 3D software to whip up ships and markers for Battlefleet Gothic. The scale is small enough that detail level is not super-important for the markers, for example, these torpedo markers :



- and single or small numbers of large ships can be printed in higher detail material without it being too expensive. Here's a Pre-Heresy Strike Cruiser I did:



And I sell these for a pretty small markup. I'll probably never even break even on these, but it does help offset some of the cost of making my own models. I could definitely see there being "open source" places to get pretty decent fan-made 3D models, or at least a place to license them pretty cheaply.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Breotan wrote:The technology isn't currently at the point where it is useful to start scanning GW sprues and going hog wild but I could see someone scanning in Titan or Thunderhawk components. Still, making your own large model in a 3d design program and then printing it out (sold or in pieces) would be a game changer.

Printing out a warhound titan sized object would actually cost several times more than the warhound itself (unless you did a significant redesign to hollow lots of things out, but you would have to do some really creative engineering there...), so im not sure how feasible that is.

Or you just break up the model into a kit and print the pieces out for later assembly, which was what I intended to say. Sorry for not being clear on that.

@ CalgarsPimpHand - That Strike cruiser looks pretty good - it seems the thought of this technology being used in 5-10 years is highly likely as it's already being used by enthusiasts like yourself.

@ nkelsch - I see your point, but to a degree I think you are being a little cynical, whilst there will undoubtedly be people who will want to illegally get stuff for free - I think the vast majority would still buy a downloadable miniature - even if that means going into GW's 'build a space marine' store to do so, especially if it means they can create something unique.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/25/filesharing-website-pirate-website_n_1231061.html

A model listed by an anonymous user as a 'Tabletop Wargaming Robot Model' - but identifiable to the Huffington Post UK as the likeness of a Warhammer 40,000 Space Marine Dreadnought, which is a trademarked design of the UK-based Games Workshop Group PLC - was freely available and had already been downloaded by at least 23 people as of press time.

The model, an official version of which costs £28 from Games Workshop, has been previously listed on a 3D printing community website, but the plans were reportedly pulled after a takedown notice was issued.

The Huffington Post UK was not independently able to test whether the available design was that of an actual Warhammer model, or a design 'inspired' by the official dreadnought.

In addition Games Workshop said they had no comment, and it was not possible to contact the creator of the design as the plans were listed anonymously.

uh oh !

Yeah,
red that post is epic in it's scope and timing, more of my printer arrived in the post today!
I hope to be printing by feb, my first project is to design and print terrain pieces for a tau outpost.

although I do need a good test model to print over and over again while I calibrate my machine... a dread seems like a good shape to line things up.

Panic...

edit,
yeah I just downloaded the Dread file mentioned in the article, it's pretty basic. I'll attach a screen grab of what it looks like.
I don't think GW has to get worried just yet!

I'm still learning how to use 3d software... I'm using blender because it's free, but if anyone knows better software shoot me a PM.

If this does turn into easy-to-print miniatures at home using stolen IP, you know what the big miniatures companies will do?



Nothing. At all.


I 've never understood why gamers feel entitled to bargain basement or free gaming stuff. Personally, I don't mind paying artists for their work. I like then to keep making stuff. Then again, Im the sucker who actually pays for downloaded music.

While I dont doubt that there will still be plenty of people paying full price for models in the traditional manner, the price is not the only point that will push people into this sort of piracy, as we've seen with music and movies. Printing models (once resolution is high enough and price per figure low enough) will give:
- instant access (1-2 hours) to any model that you have the file for, and perfect scanned models will be highly likely due to ease of distribution and relatively low cost of scanning.
- perfectly clean model with no mould lines or flash (once printing gets to that point)
- it is already parity prices to print vs finecast, and once material patents expire it will drop to perhaps $2-3 per model.
- printing in colour will be a future option, so those who dont like painting can have a high quality 'painted' force from the moment they are done printing

I'm not saying that it is ethical, people should do it, or people will do it, but that is a significant amount of added value which, as we've seen with music, will either force a change in direction from the big miniature companies to offer more added value with their products, or force a drop in prices, or if they are crazy, a rise in prices to reflect the new supply/demand curve.

If I was going to make recommendations on surviving when it happens, I'd focus on printed materials (books, etc) which can not be pirated fully effectively, as even ebooks lack some of the grace of printed material, I'd add lots of freebies to each box (dice, decals, specialist basing materials, etc), I'd drop prices to be no more than $4-$5 per model, I'd capitalise on pieces that would be too expensive to print for a while in 3D resin by focusing on plastic production, using large pieces where possible, and other things that would add value to purchases to counter mould lines and shipping delays.

Much like the printers the current generation of scanners have some issues with cost and heavy requirements on the users skill.

A lot of 3d scanners have a resolution limit on how small of a surface they can scan, the next engine scanner I believe can only get down to .5mm in detail size, that may not seem like much but that could easily be a models nose or part of a mouth, eyes etc. For stuff like vehicles it'd be rivet details or maybe the lines of an engine cover.

On top of that the meshes still need a ton of clean up, it saves a lot of time vs building a mesh for scratch if you scan a complicated piece, but in most cases you are still looking at 10-20 hours of time to clean a mesh and have it workable for printing. The places I've check into for outsourcing scanning typically want about $500-$700 on the low end for a miniature. That's for the most basic stripped down mesh with no surface skins or color.

There are plenty of people who scan various stuff and post it for sale on download site's like turbosquid. They can be pretty pricey depending on what it is, but if you are modelling and crunched or time it can save a ton of time so it might be worth paying the $50-$200 for a scanned item

As we get newer generation scanners they may well reduce the minimum detail into a range that's better suited for minis.

With a conbination of scanning and modelling to fix the finer stuff it's doable but equipment price and skill demands are fairly high. So it's going to keep it out of the average joe's hands for a little while longer.


As for the pirate bay article all I can say is go go internet police! It's kinda sad how GW is going to bankrupt itself with legal fees chasing low level stuff like this when there's a fleet of chinese pirate casters producing significant volumes of stuff that's an actual threat. Plus the customer gets to carry the weight of the legal BS through the increased cost of minis which are already insanely expensive.

Once the tech gets there I think we may see some new cutting edge companies embrace the stuff that GW is fighting so hard against, print on demand miniatures at least in concept might become a very profitable business. The minis company wouldn't need to sell any actual product beyond a printable mesh file. The customer would buy it under license much like a music file and print the stuff at home. It'd cut the companies overhead huge as there's no production staff beyond the digital artist, no warehouse, no packaging or expensive plastic injection machines, no transportation costs. It's going to happen it's just a matter of if they have the sense to reconize it and adapt before they get swamped by it. It won't ever completely replace the traditional miniature market but once the tech matures I foresee it taking a huge chunk out of the current industry.

@ Battle Ready Studios - We'll see - if this takes of as much as it has the potential to, they may have no choice but to take some sort of action - not sure what though, but.....

@ Legoburner - You've got some interesting ideas of how gaming companies could tackle this, which will of course be easy for larger companies like GW to implement but could sink a lot of smaller companies who just specialise in making miniatures. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out - will it revolutionise the way we collect our armies? or will it amount to nothing? Would you want to print a ready to go army? or do you want the pleasure/challenge or whatever of actually building and painting them yourself? I think I feel a poll coming on!

And here it is:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/425963.page

As I read this, i realize that GW is going to have to completely change their business model from being the "premiere maker of toy soldiers" to being the "premiere game making' company.

Hoping to make money on models is the loser's future. Instead, they need to broaden their mission statement and build accordingly.

Just have a look at some of the 3d sculpting being done on sites like CGhub, it really is only a matter of time. We should all start practicing now! Who wants to buy me Zbrush? <3

legoburner wrote:While I dont doubt that there will still be plenty of people paying full price for models in the traditional manner, the price is not the only point that will push people into this sort of piracy, as we've seen with music and movies. Printing models (once resolution is high enough and price per figure low enough) will give:
- instant access (1-2 hours) to any model that you have the file for, and perfect scanned models will be highly likely due to ease of distribution and relatively low cost of scanning.
- perfectly clean model with no mould lines or flash (once printing gets to that point)
- it is already parity prices to print vs finecast, and once material patents expire it will drop to perhaps $2-3 per model.
- printing in colour will be a future option, so those who dont like painting can have a high quality 'painted' force from the moment they are done printing

I'm not saying that it is ethical, people should do it, or people will do it, but that is a significant amount of added value which, as we've seen with music, will either force a change in direction from the big miniature companies to offer more added value with their products, or force a drop in prices, or if they are crazy, a rise in prices to reflect the new supply/demand curve.

If I was going to make recommendations on surviving when it happens, I'd focus on printed materials (books, etc) which can not be pirated fully effectively, as even ebooks lack some of the grace of printed material, I'd add lots of freebies to each box (dice, decals, specialist basing materials, etc), I'd drop prices to be no more than $4-$5 per model, I'd capitalise on pieces that would be too expensive to print for a while in 3D resin by focusing on plastic production, using large pieces where possible, and other things that would add value to purchases to counter mould lines and shipping delays.

In a situation where high-fidelity 3D printing was low cost enough to be common (or semi-common at least) the logical thing would be for GW to get out of foundry/casting/manufacturing all together and only produce IP (sculpt files) and rules.

The reduction in capital, labor and material costs (because they would just be a rules, books and 3D sculpture producer) would allow extremely aggressive pricing which, along with an embrace of the new technology, would undercut piracy.

But GW is much more likely to take the tact of a large music company in 1998. They'll still think they're entitled to their old income sources and will stonewall on new technologies. Which will destroy them (because GW is a lot less culturally necessary than, say, commercial music as an industry).

It's a massive shift in the supply curve with a resultant drop in price (if you still want to sell your product). You can like it or not but it's not really an ethical issue.

yeah.
DIY 3D scanning at home is starting up too!
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1491

the results of this home made scanner are ulgy...
... but shows that in a few years we can build a 3d printer and Print ourselves a 3D scanner and scan/print whatever we want!


a scanned artichoke!


Panic...

As I mentioned before, £5k is going to get you all you need to scan and print. Even if the price of the printers drop no more, the quality quality will improve. You get a better result for the same money. That's still a tiny fraction of the cost of what GW has spent.

I certainly don't think anybody is running around saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but it's going to happen and changing your business model when you are the size of GW will take time to plan and impliment. Will they stick their head in the sand? Will they leave it too late? Or do they have a plan already? I have a feeling options one & two are more likely with them

I haven't read all the responses yet to this thread, but frankly I'm a little bit intimidated by this new technology.
Now, I'm not what you would call a luddite. I use a number of electronic gadgets, from my desktop to my laptop to my iPod. However, I wonder if eventually switching over to 3D printing could pose as something that could ruin some people's lives.
If one could do this sort of thing at home, it would only be a matter of time before the current school of thought for sculpting anything is quickly dashed away by something that makes it almost too easy for the average joe to produce from his garage. I mean, the current sculptors must take some quantity of pride in their work, and they had to work years and years just to get to the level they are currently at. And I start to wonder if this will make them obsolete.
I guess my main problem is that it somehow takes away the human factor in it and replaces it with a machine, which after awhile almost makes the entire process and idea moot point. Perhaps I could just be entirely pessimistic about the entire premise, but surely someone out there shares some of my sentiments?
/rant

RiTides wrote:
And it's working! My first decent print

But... does it work and make a whistle?

even if it wont be detailed enough you could just print the big minis(that makes no sense).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jan/26/pirate-bay-3d-printing

The community recently had its first run-in with copyright law when tabletop battle games company Games Workshop issued DMCA takedown notices against Thingiverse, a site where "makers" share designs.

Games Workshop spokesman Kyle Workman said: "We are very protective of our intellectual property, and our legal team investigates each issue on a case-by-case basis."

Asked whether the company might ever consider selling its own digital 3D designs, he said: "That would be nearly impossible, unless the customer had plastic, metal and resin casting equipment."

.. the comments are somewhat amusing too

On a seperate note, Gamesworkshop seems an odd choice for filesharers to start with. I thought part of the geeky joy was trying to piece little bits together while avoiding the constant danger of supergluing your fingers together, not waiting for pristine models to print out. Where's the skill?

The prices. To field an army in Games Workshop is several hundred pounds ten years ago when I last played. I hear the prices have risen considerably since then. I think it's more that they're first in the firing line - they make high priced models which require only a scanner and 3d printer of sufficient resolution to replicate. Objects with electronics or other complex machinery, not to mention those requiring chemical compounds, will take more sophisticated machinery to replicate.

Dr. Temujin wrote:I haven't read all the responses yet to this thread, but frankly I'm a little bit intimidated by this new technology.
Now, I'm not what you would call a luddite. I use a number of electronic gadgets, from my desktop to my laptop to my iPod. However, I wonder if eventually switching over to 3D printing could pose as something that could ruin some people's lives.
If one could do this sort of thing at home, it would only be a matter of time before the current school of thought for sculpting anything is quickly dashed away by something that makes it almost too easy for the average joe to produce from his garage. I mean, the current sculptors must take some quantity of pride in their work, and they had to work years and years just to get to the level they are currently at. And I start to wonder if this will make them obsolete.
I guess my main problem is that it somehow takes away the human factor in it and replaces it with a machine, which after awhile almost makes the entire process and idea moot point. Perhaps I could just be entirely pessimistic about the entire premise, but surely someone out there shares some of my sentiments?
/rant

I wouldn't worry about that, just ask anyone that's made the switch from traditional media to digital. Tools like photoshop or Zbrush don't really replace anything you don't already have . Good art is still very much determined by an individuals ability.
If this technology becomes more accessible, I honestly can't see business as usual continuing for companies like GW. A .pdf with rules and .3ds models wouldn't cost anything but time and effort to create, giving smaller, independent studios a chance to compete. It might actually be a good thing for everyone!

Dr. Temujin wrote:
If one could do this sort of thing at home, it would only be a matter of time before the current school of thought for sculpting anything is quickly dashed away by something that makes it almost too easy for the average joe to produce from his garage. I mean, the current sculptors must take some quantity of pride in their work, and they had to work years and years just to get to the level they are currently at. And I start to wonder if this will make them obsolete.
I guess my main problem is that it somehow takes away the human factor in it and replaces it with a machine, which after awhile almost makes the entire process and idea moot point. Perhaps I could just be entirely pessimistic about the entire premise, but surely someone out there shares some of my sentiments?
/rant

Doesn't GW already design some stuff on CAD? I may be wrong on this but I think they may do this to a degree to make the moulds for some of the plastic parts?

More on Pirate Bay and printing....

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/01/25/pirate_bay_s_physibles_section_enters_the_world_of_3_d_printing_.html

Edit: As I slowly begin to learn more about this tech, the implications are mind blowing.

You're right Easy E, what these guys are suggesting is that in the future you could literally print anything - footwear, car parts, even food. I believe it's already possible to 3D print metal, I've even read that they ar experimenting with printing body parts/tissues for surgery. The implications as you say, are mindblowing. Maybe in the future there will be no more shops, you just order anything you want on line, go to your nearest 'printing facility' (in your own home?) and get it there, no need to transport anything, no need to wait - it is the stuff of science fiction, but then 100 years ago so were many things we take for granted today.

yeah,
there are lots of 3d food printers... but they basically seem to mostly squirt chocolate!

found this image though while browsing 3d printers today.


Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
there are lots of 3d food printers... but they basically seem to mostly squirt chocolate!

found this image though while browsing 3d printers today.


Panic...

But this boils down to the core issue. It isn't the technology, it is the people who pirate 3d models or make 3d models of copyrighted creations. Basically the theft and 'free exchange' of other people's ideas.

I would support if an artist chose to sell his 3d ORIGINAL model for printing. But people don't have the right to have any model they want printed in 3d for free which is basically where people always go with this issue. And because the theft will be so rampant, the legal and useful applications of this technology will hampered. I would walk into GW today and pay them the same exact price I do now for a box of orks if I could digitally pose and render them in-store and have them come out as solid one-piece models ready for painting. I want models which do not fall apart and I can put my own creative ideas in by attaching different 3d bitz to my model.

I don't want access to these single piece 3d prints if it means theft or stealing from the copyright holders which is what that 3D terminator is.

I think it’s worth noting that this isn’t all in the future. My all printed warmachine army crossed 35pts yesterday. I printed it all in my apartment on hardware costing <$700. I’ve open sourced all the models I’m using on thingiverse.com.
Of course the detail quality isn’t the same you can get with official GW or PP models but the potential is rapidly growing. There were a number of exact copies of GW models on thingiverse a while ago but they got taken down. In the interest of avoiding copyright problems I’m intentionally trying not to make my models resemble the official ones.
http://imgur.com/a/F2y9H

yeah,
Zarquon thos prints are pretty cool. Well done. And welcome to dakka!



The quality is nowhere near good enough for something i'd like to collect and paint.
This is what I'm expecting from my prusa once built.
I got the final part in the post today, the hot end.
I Just need to find time to build and calibrate it now. ( very excited! )
And I can easily see myself printing off a army to playtest it before buying the official models.

nkelsch wrote:
I don't want access to these single piece 3d prints if it means theft or stealing from the copyright holders which is what that 3D terminator is.

yeah,
I agree I want GW to make it's money as I love the hobby and their product.

My main reasons for building a 3d printer are;
1) it's fething cool!
2) to see if I can.
3) to print off larger items like terrain and extra tank parts.
(mostly the 3d print will be the base of the item and much more traditional modeling done to complete it)

I don't see my usage of a 3D printer as being any different to using greenstuff or plastic card.

Panic...

From the same article Red linked to above:

Asked whether the company might ever consider selling its own digital 3D designs, he said: "That would be nearly impossible, unless the customer had plastic, metal and resin casting equipment."

Does this GW rep not know what a 3d printer is?

These scanners are awesome http://www.nextengine.com/

This shows it being used on spawn figures, has much potential for minis. http://www.nextengine.com/gallery/spawn

Guys, this is coming
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/printrbot/printrbot-your-first-3d-printer?ref=card

The local hackerspace has a decent machine but a few of use have talking about a serious upgrade. Now I think it is needed.

This is the future of model making for the masses right here.

They still have alot of problems at the moment.. but we have to wait for what mankind can do with this over the next 5-10 years.

Those of you old enough to remember the first CD players can appreciate how quick the tech moves. My dad had one, a very early Phillips model the size of a breeze block, with a Dire Straits CD (the only album that was available in CD format then). The player was pretty bad - I distinctly remember it wouldn't play my Chili Peppers CD for some reason. The player also cost a small fortune from what I remember.

However, the point is within a few short years, the tech was ubiquitous, the price had fallen, it was reliable and the quality was good. Once people start adopting this 3D tech, the rise in quality and fall in price will be exponential.

@ Paulson Games - Yes, that scanner and what it can do is awesome!

That kickstarter printer looks really good, and filbert, you're absolutely right. As the technology becomes more common, you'll be able to buy these type of 3D printers in any electrical store at the same sort of price that a regular printer costs now.

So it looks like 3d models are going to be added to the Pirate's horde, along with the usual digital treasure Which to me begs the question, is technology going to change the very nature of the entertainment industry. Tabletop gaming, along with music, films and computer gaming all come under that heading.

For hundreds of years if we wanted to hear music or see a performance we had to go to a theatre or such venue. Even then alot of performers would perform on street corners and rely on donations from paasers by.

The late 19th Century and all of the 20th Century changed that. People could take the music home with them. Later on the same thing happened to film & TV. Billions were made during this time, then technology caught up and threw a spanner in the works.

People say it's theft and it might be, but does it also mean that we have change our view / expectations on this business model? Does technology mena that you will no longer be able to expect to make a living from an entertainment product in the same way as before?

Wolfstan wrote:

People say it's theft and it might be, but does it also mean that we have change our view / expectations on this business model? Does technology mena that you will no longer be able to expect to make a living from an entertainment product in the same way as before?

Copyright infringement is still copyright infringement.

There is a business model, the issue is people don't want a new business model, they want free models and only to pay for materials and the device. They will steal the software, Steal people's artwork, steal whatever they can. The same people who refused to buy CDs and burn copies and steal songs off the internet, steal movies and recast physical minis now.

The issue with making 'prints' is copyright owners will want to and practically need to protect their renders much the way wedding photographers do. The way a wedding photographer makes money is by selling you prints of photos which *THEY* own the copyrights for. You never own the photos of your own wedding. Now you can negotiate that you get the full rights to the photos so you may print as many as you wish, but that is a way different cost than buying prints from the photographer.

The same will need to be done with 3d models. Selling someone a render to do unlimited printing is not a business model especially with the piracy. People will probably sell the prints, people may sell a render on commission for a high price, but unless they have a model that can limit the number of legal prints of a render, there is no incentive for artists to release their prints.

You're missing my point. I'm not talking about copyright I'm talking about making money from entertainment. I will carry on using music and acting as the basic example. A couple of hundred years ago if I was a singer, even if good, there was no way I was a superstar. Technology in the early 20th Century allowed a singer to actually make a living from their voice and as we know this then moved on to the superstar status we have now. Technology allowed this to happen, it created an artificial career in a sense. If you took away pop superstars and it went back to going to your local pub to hear them, society wouldn't stop, but what they earn't would drop.

I'm not saying piracy is good or bad, what I'm saying is that it's kinda of turning the clock back on the industry because they aren't making the big bucks any more. Technology won't allow me to become a builder, or a plumber, but it will allow me to print off a 3d model or create a website without having to be a coder. It means that a whole chunk of business sectors are going to have to change their business model. Pandora's box is well and truely open and it's going to get worse.

I think a lot of people are missing the point. It doesn't have to be about copyright infringement. A lot of people make their own custom models now. If the people that do that can share their models for others to make for marginally more work don't you think at least a few of them will? It doesn't matter to me who designs the models I'm playing with. If it starts to be some guy on the internet who's doing it for the love of the game instead of GW selling models more power to him. The business model of selling models may not hold up but that doesn't mean there is any copyright infringement there.

@Panic:
These were printed on my prusa so that's exactly the quality you can reasonably get. Several people I'm talking with in the thingiverse messenger are doing a bit better for more time investment per model. I'm an engineer not an artist though so my model design isn't the best. I'm also still operating on the principle “if my models cost about $.15 each and take 15 minutes to make, I can smash them when they die just for effect.”
You should consider uploading any gaming models you design to thingiverse. There is a shortage of people working on gaming minis after the leman russ got taken down.

Wow, that technology is amazing.

This doesn't have to be about copyright infringement at all.

I think what people are forgetting is that a lego mould, some silicone rubber and 2-part resin can already allow you to illegally recast and sell models for far cheaper (and more quickly with much higher quality) than 3d printing.

I'm mainly interested in this tech to see all the unique new designs it results in.

I'm amazed no-one is selling 3d-printed wargames terrain already.

The tech is pretty cool, it's like the replicators from star trek slowly becoming reality.

scarletsquig wrote:
I'm amazed no-one is selling 3d-printed wargames terrain already.

The tech is pretty cool, it's like the replicators from star trek slowly becoming reality.

Sounds like an opening in the market to me, I think you're right about the replicator thingy, beam me up Scotty!

I can't see a real market for 3d printed terrain... it seems like it'd be better to print one master, sand it down, and then do casts of it.

But I want 3d printers to become more and more a part of the hobby, I just don't see them being used to mass-produce terrain.

RiTides.. I still want to know if that whistle made sounds!

Moulded stuff is going to be cheaper than this 3d printed stuff for a long time yet. I doubt it's viable for someone to sell wargames miniatures printed on these things for a competitive price.

monkeyh wrote:Doesn't GW already design some stuff on CAD? I may be wrong on this but I think they may do this to a degree to make the moulds for some of the plastic parts?

On pretty much all the vehicles they do. Also most of the models are sculpted in a larger scale then digitally scanned and small improvements are made, surfaces smoothed etc.

porkuslime wrote:RiTides.. I still want to know if that whistle made sounds!

I bet it does, the whole point of the default objects they provide is how they can print an object that has things within things that a normal process would be unable to do. A whistle has the little ball inside which usually results in the need for the whistle to be 2 parts and put together with the ball inside. The printer can print the ball inside which then results in a one-piece whistle.

They also have CADs for chains and boxes within boxes which basically have detatched pieces but are printed already intertwined.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/446658/stealth_ladies_revolvers.html?gid=sg28704

This is definitely the highest quality 28mm 3d Print I've seen so far, and at $17.21 it's priced in line with most GW products. I think that methods like the one that shapeways uses are cost effective, but ponderous, as you must wait weeks to receive proofs before ordering in large quantities.

junk wrote:http://www.shapeways.com/model/446658/stealth_ladies_revolvers.html?gid=sg28704

This is definitely the highest quality 28mm 3d Print I've seen so far, and at $17.21 it's priced in line with most GW products. I think that methods like the one that shapeways uses are cost effective, but ponderous, as you must wait weeks to receive proofs before ordering in large quantities.

I don't see any pictures of the actual prints...

I ordered a set, so when I receive them (4-6 weeks) if this thread is still active, I'll post some HQ macro photos.

It is absolutely the future.

"I really wanna try Ironclad Dreads this game, I'm gonna go print some out and see if they work well"

Who wouldn't do this?




Look at the history of printers, these things will come free with your PC in a few years.

Cyporiean wrote:

junk wrote:http://www.shapeways.com/model/446658/stealth_ladies_revolvers.html?gid=sg28704

This is definitely the highest quality 28mm 3d Print I've seen so far, and at $17.21 it's priced in line with most GW products. I think that methods like the one that shapeways uses are cost effective, but ponderous, as you must wait weeks to receive proofs before ordering in large quantities.

I don't see any pictures of the actual prints...

A scouring of the internet found exactly two pictures of his finished work, both here and neither very good. But they look better than I thought they would...

http://easternfringe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8543&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

Hard to tell with those awful paint jobs, but yeah, quality isn't GW.

Another 3d printing article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16907104

In fairness it's real high end stuff, but what starts at the top usually works it's way down.

If your printing out a full 3D model without authorization...then it should honestly be classed as theft and not just piracy, considering there are physical items involved.

I can't see how this can get much personal use legally.

It will interesting how the industry handles this. Obviously if someone got hold of a GW CAD model and was using that, then that's a clear enough legal issue. know a big chunk of digital reproduction is covered by copyright, but could you get away with scanning a model and converting it into a template? What about someone who recreates a 40k model and then just gives the 3d model away? Maybe even selling it could be legal.

Someone soon will need to sit down and look at this otherwise it will be Napster all over again.

and then just gives the 3d model away?

Doesn't that deny the company a sale, as they didnt give it away?

Could be. My point is that the industry shouldn't assume that the current laws cover this new tech. If they do I would imagine it will bite them.

Wolfstan wrote: know a big chunk of digital reproduction is covered by copyright, but could you get away with scanning a model and converting it into a template? What about someone who recreates a 40k model and then just gives the 3d model away? Maybe even selling it could be legal.

Scanning, tracing or manually recreating something via visually inpsecting an original is all derivative works. Fan art is technically illegal but companies look the other way. If 3D fan art became the source of physical prints, then GW could excersize their copyrights by cracking down on fan art which basically renders any of GWs models.

If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is illegal and would get GWs attention.

Wolfstan wrote:It will interesting how the industry handles this. Obviously if someone got hold of a GW CAD model and was using that, then that's a clear enough legal issue. know a big chunk of digital reproduction is covered by copyright, but could you get away with scanning a model and converting it into a template? What about someone who recreates a 40k model and then just gives the 3d model away? Maybe even selling it could be legal.

Someone soon will need to sit down and look at this otherwise it will be Napster all over again.

As it applies here - The X-box Kinect is a Visual Scanner, with free software. There already exist Mods for it that use 2 Kinects placed at a 90 degree offset, attached to a Windows PC, to act as a functional 3D scanner. Just place your mini on the turn table, shoot 30 seconds of video, and BAM! instant perfect 3D model for printing.

And exactly as legal as tucking said mini in your pocket as you walk out of a FLGS.

Sunoccard wrote:I had read about this somewhere else, and I had a similar thought. There are several problems with it at the moment, First is that they cannot produce the level of detail that most gamers would find acceptable, Second is the legal grey area that exists around such a thing ( the chapter house suit could have a major impact on this).

In a few years this technology may be used to a great extent, legal issues aside, it really would depend on the cost of implementation and access (paid or unpaid) to the blueprints.

This would only be an issue if you planned on selling the replicas.

GW couldn't stop 5,000 people making their own space marines if they tried.

yeah,
I've already sunk £500 into my 3d printer and it's not yet complete.
The plastic to print objects is sold at about £50 for 2KG so it's not exactly cheap.
The resolution of prints isn't good enough yet to compare with GW models... and have allot of clean up required to get things nice.
Also each print takes up to 8 hours to print! on top of this there are failed prints... allot of talk on the reprap forums discussing machine mods deals with how many failed prints people get.

If all people want is space marines the easiest/cheapest way to get them with the highest quality is to buy an original.

Sure the tech will advance, but we are not there yet.

Most people who look at this 3D printing tech, don't see piracy, they see a cool way to make unique items.
GW sells Green Stuff... They even give out Golden Daemons to people who have scratch built entire models based on their IP

What's the difference between Sculpting unique Space Marine parts from Green Stuff and downloading/scanning a Space Marine making changes to make it unique and printing it?

Panic...

What's the difference between Sculpting unique Space Marine parts from Green Stuff and downloading/scanning a Space Marine making changes to make it unique and printing it?

Except when you can print an entire bitz box out and sell it to someone for money.

Panic wrote:What's the difference between Sculpting unique Space Marine parts from Green Stuff and downloading/scanning a Space Marine making changes to make it unique and printing it?

Roughly 2 Dollars to GW for the base figure.

Sculpting a head and some Shoulderpads = Printing a head and some Shoulderpads.
Sculpting an Entire Marine = scratch Modeling and printing an entire Marine.
Scanning a Marine and Printing it = slipping a Marine in your pocket and walking out of the FLGS with it.

Will this be the future? Well, I remember a scientific seminar I once attended where it was helpfully pointed out that if you ask the question "Will X happen?" The answer is pretty much always "yes", if you make the time frame long enough.

I think something that can get lost in these discussions is the degree of dedication: I think that this kind of technology will not any time soon be a substantial financial threat to entities like Games Workshop or Privateer Press, simply because for the time being, most people simply won't want to put in the effort. In this way I think it's similar to the example earlier in the thread about how printing paper hasn't gotten rid of books, and dissimilar to pirating movies and music.

With movies and music, the entirety of these entities have been moving to a purely digital medium for a while: I don't think that people would pirate what they do if it wasn't for the existence of physical devices like iPods that let them then use that music. I could be wrong, but I never really saw a threat to publishing in the days of the CD player.

Also, something to think about: if we suppose a good 3d printing system costs $1000, and could let you produce miniatures on the cheep, you're looking at printing out a lot of stuff. But people don't get introduced to the game that way: they start out with the 2 player box or a Christmas gift or see some friends stuff or pass the store, whatever. Pretty much everyone on these boards is experienced with these systems and looks at investments in armies, new games, whatever, and can (they don't neccassarily do so) weigh the costs involved.

But people starting out the game don't, and even if they knew they could do this, you're not going to buy a $1000 machine just so you don't have to buy an $80-100 starter kit.

I think the most exciting options will be for true custom items created by the true small scale hobbyist/artists. I mean,I've been working for a while on a game system of my own, and I'm gradually realizing I could ultimately produce the whole system without every having to touch a mold myself, all through the computer. All crazy... but ultimately, it still requires writing quality rules that people want to play, and miniatures people want to play with. You can cut out the middle man, but you can't cut out the need for talent in the end.

Wolfstan wrote:Could be. My point is that the industry shouldn't assume that the current laws cover this new tech. If they do I would imagine it will bite them.

Uh, I'm not sure where you are getting this idea, but scanning a model and then printing a copy is very definitely a violation of US Copyright law. Scanning a model, manipulating the pose and then printing it out is also a violation. Such behaviors are flatly proscribed by the plain language of 17 USC 1 SS 106 and 113.

Uh, I'm not sure where you are getting this idea, but scanning a model and then printing a copy is very definitely a violation of US Copyright law. Scanning a model, manipulating the pose and then printing it out is also a violation. Such behaviors are flatly proscribed by the plain language of 17 USC 1 SS 106 and 113.

Ok fair enough that's the US angle taken care of. No idea how tight every one elses copyright laws are so can't comment on them. Still say it wil be interesting times and if the cost of GW models keep going up, then I can see some suppliers popping up in China. How long before you see a line of printers churning out FW copies?

Something else to think on is how you would police it. Usually trading standards or plod turn up and can see shelves of product. In the case of a 3d printing all the templates could be stored on a server on the web, so all they see is a 3d printer. If the person is switched on enough they can keep the site details in their head, so even less obvious evidence.

Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).






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porkuslime wrote:RiTides.. I still want to know if that whistle made sounds!

Sorry, I totally missed this . It does whistle!

yeah,
that print is awesome Ritides, very nice.

I'm so excited... going to spend all day today working on mine!

Panic...

RiTides wrote:Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).

Wow! 2 questions: 1) is that an original sculpt, or is that from a scan of something? 2) I know you and Panic are setting up your own rigs, did you put up any information on those things, because that kind of quality from a home rig is amazing to me, just gobsmaking.

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).

Wow! 2 questions: 1) is that an original sculpt, or is that from a scan of something? 2) I know you and Panic are setting up your own rigs, did you put up any information on those things, because that kind of quality from a home rig is amazing to me, just gobsmaking.

I see nothing like it on the net, though my search param's may be off, closest is a half circle plastic wheel that's just printed.

Now the question is: If they are legal for sale, what's the price point to make them viable?

Here is an interesting article about 3-D Printing:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/02/06/_3_d_printing_creates_bone_replacement_for_elderly_woman_s_lower_jaw_.html

I don't know if this has been addressed to earlier in the thread, but I think such a technology would have a significant disadvantage and that would be: piracy. One cannot copy the sprue of the plastic models that easily. However, if GW would start simply to sell the blueprints for download for use with a 3d printer, then someone would not be far behind trying to break codes and copy the blueprint, and then sell it around or distribute it freely on the internet.
Just my thoughts on this.

angelshade00 wrote:I don't know if this has been addressed to earlier in the thread, but I think such a technology would have a significant disadvantage and that would be: piracy. One cannot copy the sprue of the plastic models that easily. However, if GW would start simply to sell the blueprints for download for use with a 3d printer, then someone would not be far behind trying to break codes and copy the blueprint, and then sell it around or distribute it freely on the internet.
Just my thoughts on this.

Covered, and as I pointed out, I can scan a Sprue into CAD using 2 Kinects, then send it to the printer right now. But that's the same as pocketing the sprue and walking out of the FLGS with it.
EDIT: Here's a video of a functional one posted back in August. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7LthXRoESw
There's references to a Shapeways project using the tech back in February of last year.

Bounty wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:Just printed this for Jin . Not a figure by a Really long shot, but decent enough for a gaming accessory, or will be after some cleanup!

First shot still has the raft on the back, second I've cut it off (need to figure out a way to make removing it easier).

Wow! 2 questions: 1) is that an original sculpt, or is that from a scan of something? 2) I know you and Panic are setting up your own rigs, did you put up any information on those things, because that kind of quality from a home rig is amazing to me, just gobsmaking.

I see nothing like it on the net, though my search param's may be off, closest is a half circle plastic wheel that's just printed.

Now the question is: If they are legal for sale, what's the price point to make them viable?

Unless I unwittingly did so, that should be a completely original 3D model made by yours truly.

As far as legality of sale of the thing: I don't know anybody that makes a similar product (and GW certainly doesn't). I don't see why it'd be illegal.

Jin wrote:

Bounty wrote:I see nothing like it on the net, though my search param's may be off, closest is a half circle plastic wheel that's just printed.
Now the question is: If they are legal for sale, what's the price point to make them viable?

Unless I unwittingly did so, that should be a completely original 3D model made by yours truly.
As far as legality of sale of the thing: I don't know anybody that makes a similar product (and GW certainly doesn't). I don't see why it'd be illegal.

I've seen 'similar' in as much as they're spin up turn counters featuring Roman Numerals, but so long as it's not a copy of someone's IP, or an existing sculpt, it's legally yours, and you can sell them. I'd figure cost to print, add 25%, then round to the nearest dollar and offer them for sale! Worst case senerio nobody buys them.

Here's some images of 'similar' items:
Note that the two using minis, and the one in the Guard Eagle, are all in violation of GW IP, and can't be sold.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big-abc-news/machines-creating-machines-181919022.html

This is what you might be looking for. It's affordable and it has open support for 3D graphics you want to create through the company. You couldn't (or better yet shouldn't) 3D render any copyrighted minis, but you could make open source models that are close for community use.

One production line right there in that report.

Piracy is going to happen, repeating the same posts that it's wrong won't change that fact. How the industry deals with it will be the key thing. If GW is having a rough time with CHS at the moment, just think how harder it will get in the future. At what point will a skull and cog design cross over in to a copyright breach? How many places will start off coming up with GW themed accessories? GW's legal team will be like a cartoon character trying to stop the leaks in a dam, in the end they will run out of resources to chase everyone.

How about a 40k "style" dice tower? Or dice box?

Hi everybody. I'm brand new here at DAKKA DAKKA alhough I'm not new to he 40K world. I was big into Space Hulk as a kid. Recently I have been toying wih the idea of converting some Space Marines. I'm into sculpting and it would be a lot of fun to try my hand at some 'artscale' marines. This has been a very interesting thread to read so I hope you guys will bear with the longwindedness that follows.

By trade I'm a mechanical designer, so I use 3D CAD every day and I've worked on rapid prototyping machines. At the pinnacle of my experience with the RP printer I worked on, I made a working lab pipettor prototype (ironically wih the aid of lots of filing and an eye for small details that I had developed in part from converting & painting some Space Hulk and 40k figures back in the day.) Quite a fulfilling experience although anyone who hates trimming flash would probably disagree with this level of enjoyment... You don't know the half! It gets an order of magnitude harder when the parts have to fit AND mesh / turn / interface with other parts propely...

The other day I stopped by the NYC GW store to window shop and check out some eye candy. Standing there, turning an Ultramarines figure over in my hand, I had the thought, 'wow these guys seemed bigger when I was 12.' This led me to find out about some of the excellent 'art scale' conversions people have posted here on DAKKA.

Personally speaking, since I'm generally pretty low in the hobby fundage area, I will want to find ways to cut costs if I begin building and converting again. I had the thought of doing the conversions on the individual parts and then casting muliple copies of the parts. This would cut the workload of sculpting the same stuff on every single mini, and it would instead allow me to easily increase the size of my army. It would also make for novel parts combinations for each squad just like an out-of-the-box kit. Win-win-win.

Then I had the thought... Well if I want to convert some regular marines to 'art scale,' expressly because, on seeing some minis again I really disliked the scale... Why not go to a bigger scale altogether? (disregaarding the significant amount more hand sculpting that would take...) I guess my line of reasoning was, if I'm going to put so much work into this, why not make them in a lager scale altogether? Yay, visually discernible discernible from more than 3 feet! I would want to do this mostly for the fun of modeling again, and for the purpose of making a collection that has a unique identity. The scale-playability isn't that big an issue to me for that reason.

I don't know if GW would ever go for this but, how cool would it be to have the 40K range available in, say, 2X size for games of Kill Team!! (reverse epic scale? )

So I began to think - assuming I had my special-scale sculpts finished, I could use a 3D scanner to make 3D files of the sculpts, and then an RP printer to make the 'mold masters.' File down, smooh out and clean up the masters, and then Blue Stuff them to make the molds.

As an artist and inventor I totally understand the need to protect ones' intellectual property. So the ethical / IP issues are important to me and are a bit of an impasse. While I can see that there would be a market for them, I wouldn't want to start selling, say, 2x scale figure kits, or for that matter, kits, bits or complete figures in the conventional scale. I'd have just spent a ton of time making the models and casting replicas of those parts, for the sole purpose of them being within the 40k universe but distinct from the off-the-shelf models, so I wouldn't necessarily want others to have them. Also I wouldn't do it because, while I will still be a GW customer regardless, because I have respect for the skill of the artists they employ, and because I know that they could argue infringement in court (the 'substantial likenes' clause if I'm not mistaken).

I'm not looking to get in trouble, and I don' want to step on other peoples' toes; I just want to make some cool stuff.

As for the idea of GW changing their business model to include supplying digital files for RP printing -- I think it's an excellent idea, but it's not the best 'out the gate' idea, because DIY RP printing is still relatively new. Instead, they could start out by offering exclusive, limited-run variants of conventional figures, and custom posed variants of exising figures.

'I can get ten different Terminator leg poses in the RP parts? Hellz yes! Might as well pick up one of those new limited Techmarine Forgemasters too while I'm at it!' The ONLY problem I can see here is that they'll get botlenecked with orders in the first week.

One last thing. There's a stupidly easy way to get around the possibility of a 3D file being posted for free on a Torrent site, like this Dreadnought I found:
http://www.3dfuture.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/dreadnought-printed-mounted_display_medium-300x234.jpg

....That possibility would be for GW to outfit each store with a Printbot (assuming acceptable resolution can be had by that point.) It also means I could get a job as the '3d printer guy' at the NY store, LMAO...

Why would this work?
Because, why would you spend eight hundred bucks on a machine you might not have much use for, when you can spend three bucks a piece on a Marine with exactly the parts and bits you want? There's also no learning curve -- understanding that not everyone geeks out on manufacturing-related stuff like I do, LOL -- and I think the in-store convenience adds to the appeal.

Great post and conversation thus far! Was this an acceptable first post? What do you guys think about all this?

Cheers!

A very good first post but you should probably remove the links to the pirated and copyrighted material.

yeah,
welcome to dakka Superspork, great first post!

I don't think we will see print on demand within GW stores, as GW doesn't seem to willingly adopt new buisness models.

I really like the idea of a 2x kill team scale!

and that photo of a dread is what GW seems to be worried about... it's not that bad is it? for something people are printing for for a couple of bucks.

But honestly most peope would prefer a actual GW model with it's vastly superior surfaces and details.

Panic...

Panic, you're quite right about surface details. People will NOT be getting anyhing close to GW's level of detail straight off an RP machine.

The closest thing I've seen is the custom replicas you can get of World of Warcraft characters. They look as your in-game character does. The Blizzard Games guys get these made on some VERY expensive high-end RP machines. They use colored plastics so the model comes out essentially done!

I think that kind of novelty is awesome. And actually, the detail looks good on these, as they should, coming from a machine that costs $100 grand. Check out some examples.
http://www.figureprints.com/wow/Gallery.aspx

So the point is, if people are trying to save money and time by printing RP versions of GW minis, they're gonna be disappointed.

RiTides, that blue skull signet marker is awesome, btw! I bet it'll take a couple of hours, a sheet of fine grit and a decent amount of green stuff, though, to get the surfaces acceptably prepped for painting.




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Oh and Filbert, good call on the torrent link, duly noted and removed.


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http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/1202-for-some-designers...-protection-may-be-better-achieved-through-instant-prototyping-and-continuous-product-change-rather-than-intellectual-property-law.html

BTW, really good aricle on Shapeways that pertains to this discussion.


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BTW, RiTides - Here's something that may help a bit with your flash issue. If the material is styrene, you can use acetone to soften it. Squirt some all around the edge where you want to cut. It should make getting that flash off with a knife much easier.

More stuff printed today!






I really need to figure out how to print without the raft that's still on the parts in the first 2 images (cut off the part for the second 2, but it's hard to do with my current settings).

Buzzsaw wrote:Wow! 2 questions: 1) is that an original sculpt, or is that from a scan of something? 2) I know you and Panic are setting up your own rigs, did you put up any information on those things, because that kind of quality from a home rig is amazing to me, just gobsmaking.

Sorry I missed this earlier! I saw Jin posted that he designed it, and another friend might cast it after he smooths out the details... so we'll see!

Superspork- nice to have you here, thanks for the thoughts!! Will give your posts a more thorough readthrough before replying specifically . Generally, I think RP is only good for masters, and casting needs to be done to mass produce anything, but it's a lot of fun!

RiTides, nice models! That sqiud is awesome. What kind of RP printer are you using? Do you have other pics you could pot of things you've made with it?

The pics show how there's a better conformity of surfaces when they're flat, so generally, items with flat faces will come out with less flaws.

But it also is dependent on geometry direction in relation to height. I bet the vertical sides of your 2012 piece are smoother than the curve on the dragon's tail.

But nothing a little sanding and GS can't handle on the dragon or squid for example.

FWIW, small 3D router mills can make a finer surface as-cut... With a sharp point routing tool the resolution can be really good and you can cut in wood, mdf, plastic, resin, etc. They're about 800 bucks for the cheapest on Ebay. Aren't some of the 3D DIY RP printer kits around the same range, and the basic 3D scanners? (weapons choice!)

So about those 2x scale models for Kill Team...

/OT - Is there a way to add to the acronym list? (RP: Roleplay, Reinforcement Point, and... Rapid Protoype? )

I've actually got the 3D Palace Dreadnought on my shelf. It's a legit copy and it's a tutorial on how to build, basically, a 3D model of a 40k Dreadnought. No maps with it, just a plain model with two twin linked meltas on it. Must get around to going through it at some point )

RiTides wrote:
I really need to figure out how to print without the raft that's still on the parts in the first 2 images (cut off the part for the second 2, but it's hard to do with my current settings).

That does seem like an awfully intense raft. Here is my print of the octocat which uses the same tentacle base as that octopus. As you can see I didn't come close to needing that level of raft. Although it did not a little bit to hold the head up.

Are you printing in PLA or ABS? What slicer are you using?

I have been looking at 3D printing for sometime.

I like the idea but I see the draw backs, but in the end it seems something of an inevitability tbh.
The more forward thinking studios may simply switch over to being digital content providers, providing the models in which ever format proves most popular (my guess is .obj files as they are already pretty popular with companies providing 3D models).
However I see the really cool stuff coming out of the vets like ourselves. I'd love to be an early adopter of this tech and be one of the first to have an army I designed and printed myself. I do have moderate 3D modelling experience in 3D Studio Max.
If I think that then clearly it is desirable for many model fans.

yeah,
First off I've had some success now with my printer!
I got all the axis all moving in the right directions... Woot!
But the excruder makes a big tangled mess of ABS plastic. I think it's not hot enough.. or I really need that heated bed? /woot!
time to hit the forums...

While in the forums i found a link to this... GW Tank.



+++ and to steer the thread away from the dark side of 3D printing +++

Rhino3D is the software that WarMill use. It looks awesome and seems pretty easy to use.
check out their work -> WarMill using Rhino3d in the WarMill thread

And I've had a bit of good luck getting a free copy of Rhino3D for MacOs.
The PC version costs mega bucks for a commercial copy and £200 for a student licence.... (no sighting of a home/ casual licence...)

Turns out that Rhino3D is in beta for Mac Os .. so as long as your willing to give feedback you can get it for Mac for free! Woot!
http://mac.rhino3d.com/
I signed up and they sent me a link : )

So after 1 hour of messing around with basic shapes. I made this !
Not quite sure what it is... It's just a little thing.


Panic...

Superspork- I'm using a Makerbot

Zarquon- That looks great! I'm going to tackle the raft challenge this coming week, or possibly starting on the weekend. I'm printing from ReplicatorG using Skeinforge, and in ABS.

Panic- Awesome about the axes!! Extruding a tangled mess of ABS plastic sounds like the first step . Will let more experienced folks answer more, although maybe it's not close enough to the surface to lay down the material in the right spot?

Rhino looks sweet, I paid for Solidworks student version a few years ago but it expired after a year and it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 even for the student version at the time, if I remember right...

Made this for my wife on Valentine's Day . Printed 2 hours without having to watch it at all, so that's a first! (Or least, the first time I've braved not watching it). Still with the raft, I'll get rid of that thing soon (and I can cut it off, just haven't done it on this one yet... for some reason my wife said she likes it on there). I plan to paint this, it's a dragon curled around a heart, so that the heart is more distinguishable

http://www.david-laserscanner.com/?section=Gallery

Found this nifty site today... Free 3D laser scanning software which uses a common webcam and a laser pointer. Looking thru the gallery, seems it can get some surprisingly good results with the right setup. I'd like to try this with some WH40K figures to see how they turn out as-scanned.....


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BTW RTides, that dragon is awesome!

Thanks! More parts printed today (mostly bases)... next stop, raftless printing!

Printed some more cylindrical parts... here's some pics





It can do these pretty well! The rafts actually came off of these much easier (I let them fully cool, then used a much sharper hobby knife) but I didn't get a pic of them after the rafts were off.

I think it's quite possible in the future. Couple kinks would need to be worked out, but it sounds like a really cool idea.

Any predictions on who the first Mini company will be to start a service where you buy plans to print yourself?

Something with good security to prevent sharing / etc.

Mantic?
Privateer?
Games Workshop (lololololololololol....)?

I don't know about that, but a mini company that Only creates digital sculpts that you can order off of something like Moddler or Shapeways can't be too far off!

Well to be fair, ten years ago, proposing that Privateer Press would be distributing their rule and stat info digitally to your Phone / Tablet would have sounded insane.

Why isn't it viable that 10 / 20 years from now, when these printers come down in price and produce high quality products, that you'll just buy a copy of a miniature off of their website and print it out immediately?