Hmm, it might just be us assuming, because of 5th... that would make necrons a lot more resistant in CC with their LD10 especially when taking a lot of casualties.

I'm still reading the book over again and finding things I missed.

Loser checks Morale
Units that lose a close combat must take a Morale
check (casualties) to hold their ground, with a
penalty depending on how severe the defeat was.
If they pass, the unit fights on – the combat is
effectively drawn and no further account is made
of the unit’s defeat. If they fail, they must
abandon the fight and fall back. The unit is no
longer locked in combat.

Units taking this Morale check (casualties) suffer a
-1 Ld modifier for each wound their side has lost
the combat by.

A unit that passes its Morale check fights on. If it
fails the test and survives the enemy’s sweeping
advance it falls back as described below.

Yeah, just saw that, too. D'awww

Wow....... It was only like two sections down on the same page..... LOL.

Bravo for the correction.

Ever-living characters are going to be sweep-proof!

New Sweeping Advance:

New Removed from play:

Necron FAQ:

Tapeworm711 wrote:Wow....... It was only like two sections down on the same page..... LOL.

Bravo for the correction.

It's ok, took me a while to see it, too..

Assuming they make the 5+ RP, yes.

It also looks like it implies that if the unit it was attached to was scoring, the lone cryptek is still as well........hrmmmm.

Cyrax wrote:Ever-living characters are going to be sweep-proof!

New Sweeping Advance:

Spoiler:

On a roll of 5+, they break off from the combat successfully. Proceed with the Fall Back move. On any other result the unit is destroyed. We assume that the already demoralised foe is comprehensively scattered, ripped apart and sent packing, its members left either dead, wounded, and captured, or at best fleeing and hiding. The destroyed unit is removed immediately.

New Removed from play:

Spoiler:

The various Codex books and supplements use different terms for casualties at times. A model may be destroyed, killed, incapacitated, removed from play or removed as a casualty. All these terms refer to the same thing. The model is taken from the table and does no longer take part in the game unless it has a special rule that says otherwise (e.g. Necrons). If a unit is destroyed, every model in it is removed as a casualty.

Necron FAQ:

Spoiler:

Q: If an entire unit, including an attached character from a Royal Court, is wiped out, do you get to make any Reanimation Protocol rolls? (p29)
A: You would only get to make one roll for the attached character as he has the Ever-living special rule. Note that in this case, he must be placed within 3" of the counter as his unit has been wiped out.

Well, that's one good thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tapeworm711 wrote:Assuming they make the 5+ RP, yes.

It also looks like it implies that if the unit it was attached to was scoring, the lone cryptek is still as well........hrmmmm.

The normal lords would be as well as they aren't an IC and join the unit just like a Sargent.

Let's talk about the Monolith:

1) Heavy* aka Super-Heavy(1)
It has a single structure point, meaning that it conveys a -3 modifier to everyone except a natural 6 on the vehicle damage chart.

2) Living Metal allows the Monolith to ignore the effects of a Crew Shaken on a roll of 3+ and to ignore Crew Stunned on a roll of 4+. Due to synergy with the Super-Heavy rule, only a natural 6 will not be modified down to one of these two results. (eg. 5: Wrecked becomes a 2: Crew Stunned)

3) Super-Heavies are able to attempt a repair function to remove a result of Immobilized or Weapon Destroyed.

4) Behemoth special rule applies to all tanks that have AV 14 on the front, -such as the Monolith- that automatically conveys Multi-Targeting (3)

5) The Monolith always counts as stationary for the purpose of shooting, meaning the Monolith is always considered to have Multi-Targeting (6), as MT gets doubled when stationary. So it is able to fire its Particle Whip and all four Gauss Flux Arcs every turn. Thanks to the built-in split fire rule of the Gauss Flux Arcs, these do not need to use a MT point in order to split fire. Or, it can fire the Particle Whip, 3 Flux Arcs and the Portal of Exile.

6) The Monolith is a skimmer, which means its Move has been increased to 8"

7) Skimmers ignore difficult/dangerous terrain

8) The Monolith can Deep Strike without fear of mishaps, because the mishap table is now gone. So it can Deep Dtrike without scattering 18" away from enemy units (still within Partice Whip range, mind you) or else it scatters and is treated like a drop pod if you Deep Strike closer than 18". However, as the Monolith is a Skimmer, it ignores terrain, meaning the Monolith is effectively immune from any ill effects of Deep Strikes, unless it becomes Stunned (which it can ignore on a roll of 4+ thanks to Living Metal). Additionally, because the Monolith is moved the minimum distance to resolve its placing just like a Drop Pod, this means the Monolith will always be 1" away from enemy units if you so choose. A perfect set-up to open the door to the Portal of Exile, right? You could suck up 2/3 of an IG blob doing this!

9) Thanks to the Behemoth special rule and the 'always counts as stationary when shooting' rules, the Monolith will have MT(6) even on the turn in which it deep strikes. This makes the Monolith one hell of a party crasher.

10) Units coming in through the portal are not subject to Defensive Fire, as they are not Deep Striking into play.

My overall position: At only 200 points, the Monolith is now possibly the best unit in all of 40k. I will be fielding both of mine once again, and if I can find the room, I will add a third to my army.

Thanks for the overview Azazel. The onlly big change I think will happen in the revised version of this rulebook is we might see the "heavy" special rule that is in the Necron codex than the one we see in the pdf. If it stays the same I will be far from complaining though.. I could see everyone else yelling though : P. Even with that change it would STILL be a amazing vehicle for 200 points.

As it stands, can the monolith use the portal the turn it arrives? I don't have my codex on hand and I think there is a rule to deny that, but I'm drawing a blank.

if I read it right scarabs will die by the hundreds if I read the swarm blast rule right. 10" blast against swarms? there goes the whole squad.

Sunoccard wrote:if I read it right scarabs will die by the hundreds if I read the swarm blast rule right. 10" blast against swarms? there goes the whole squad.

The majority believe that to be a copy paste error and in stead they were trying to write about the different sizes of blasts. from small to apoc.

Read the part about multi target again. Super heavys get 6+ structure points. Mono has mt7 which is effectively mt14 all game until it starts taking damage.

Also the first natural 6 on the damage table has the -3 modifier. It didn't lose the sp until after that volley of damage is resolved.

tetrisphreak wrote:Read the part about multi target again. Super heavys get 6+ structure points. Mono has mt7 which is effectively mt14 all game until it starts taking damage.

Also the first natural 6 on the damage table has the -3 modifier. It didn't lose the sp until after that volley of damage is resolved.

Another reason I don't think it will end up being a superheavy : ) We can all dream though.

So, if 6th Edition comes about as it is currently, the Monolith becomes a 200 point Pyramid of Doom? I can't think of anything which can Deep Strike in and unleash that level of firepower. If everything stays as it is now, I can see the Monolith suddenly showing up in almost every Necron army.

If only mine hadn't been lost moving house. ; - ;

Dytalus wrote:So, if 6th Edition comes about as it is currently, the Monolith becomes a 200 point Pyramid of Doom? I can't think of anything which can Deep Strike in and unleash that level of firepower. If everything stays as it is now, I can see the Monolith suddenly showing up in almost every Necron army.

If only mine hadn't been lost moving house. ; - ;

If it stays exactly like what is is in the PDF, I'll be using 3 in every game that I can...

Swara wrote:

Dytalus wrote:So, if 6th Edition comes about as it is currently, the Monolith becomes a 200 point Pyramid of Doom? I can't think of anything which can Deep Strike in and unleash that level of firepower. If everything stays as it is now, I can see the Monolith suddenly showing up in almost every Necron army.

If only mine hadn't been lost moving house. ; - ;

If it stays exactly like what is is in the PDF, I'll be using 3 in every game that I can...

I remember the look on my opponent's face when I rolled out two of them and he promptly started crying.

I imagine with these rules he'd fall into a coma. : D

I don't expect the monolith to be classified as super heavy in the final version of the 6th Ed rules. It just has too many strengths vs the point cost if that were the case. I do however anticipate the Mono will be faster and able to fire on all cylinders in 6th.

Something most people seem to have overlooked about Monoliths and teleportation:

*Teleport*
Unit
Type: Move
In rare cases a special piece of wargear or psychic
power from a Codex book allows a unit to make a
Teleport move. Grey Knights with personal
teleporters or the Necrons that are using the
Monolith’s eternity gate are among these
fortunate troops.

The details of how a Teleport move is executed
vary. The exact rules are presented in each Codex
book. A Teleport move might use a fixed
movement or the unit is placed in proximity of a
marker. A teleporting unit has the Airborne
terrain special rule for this movement and models
in the unit can be placed on any level when
entering multi-level terrain.

A teleporting unit is barred from using Stationary
actions until it regains combat-readiness in its
Consolidation phase.


It's important to note that this is classified as a move action. Every unit is only allowed up to 1 move action a turn. Since "Engage" is a move action, and so is "Teleport", this would imply units teleporting through the monolith are

a) not subject to Defensive Fire because they are acting in the Movement Phase, not before (like Deep Strike and Reserves)and also

b) They cannot Engage.

The wording for "Teleport" says that units follow the rules as presented in the codex, but given that the description specifically notes Necron Monoliths it would be safe to assume the codex update will describe its rule as using the "Teleport" move action.

Another thing someone mentioned earlier, the Monolith being classified as "Heavy" makes it a Super-heavy, and Super-heavies get Multitargeting (Structure Points + 6). The rules currently suggest that the vehicle is able to fire everything as stationary while moving but I suspect that will change due to the incredibly high Multitargeting value and also because being a super-heavy, it gains the "Lumbering" movement special rule.

It's also worth noting that Structure Points act like additional wounds for vehicles rather than the total wounds. For example, a Monolith with 1 structure point would need to have a natural 6 on the damage chart against them before the structure point is taken off, but after that structure point is removed it still needs to have another 6 on the damage chart (via penetrating hit) to wreck it, since being a tank reduces that hit by 1 (natural 6 goes down to 5). Either way though, it's much harder to destroy than ever before.

Open topped doesn't have the +1 Modifier on the vehicle damage chart anymore. That's going to be pretty huge for all our QS vehicles.

At least that's how I understood it.

Swara wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:Scythes just became a LOT better. The limited range on a Doom Scythe means almost nothing now if you are running supersonic...not to mention that most things will need a 6 to hit you, which really helps the AV 11 survive.

Hell yes they do. I hope they aren't real hard to put together, because I'm buying 12 of these suckers the day they come out (I also hope it'll be easy to magnetize them so you can switch all them up.. like 12 Doomscythes in apoc.. )

I'm assuming that you didn't look at the Apoc section of the 6th edition rulebook. Anyway, In order to bring 12 doomscythes, you'd have to also bring at least 4 HQ choices and 8 troop choices to fill the detachment requirements with all detachments having to follow Force Org.

Destroyers have gotten much better (in my eyes), for three main reasons:

1. Cover saves aren't as good (5+ base)

2. Preferred Enemy makes them hit on a 2+, most of the time.

And 3 (this is a biggie): Ap 3 weapons -deny Feel No Pain-, so take that, Death Company, you big ugly wusses!

Ignoring feel no pain is a BIG deal for lots of armies these days. It seems like everyone can take an upgrade character or a psychic power that gives Key squads Feel No Pain.

As for the Monolith, I think it will stay as a super-heavy. I believe that's why the Codex lists it as "Heavy* ", likely to denote the 6th Ed. rule that says "sometimes Super-Heavy vehicles with a single structure point as called 'Heavy'."

Because remember, although the Monolith has so many shooting actions that it can perform, you can still never shoot the same gun twice. So the Monolith can fire:

Particle Whip (Ordnance)
Gauss Flux Arc
Gauss Flux Arc
Gauss Flux Arc
Gauss Flux Arc
Doorway to Nowhere

Also when you remember that you will rarely be able to fire three, not to mention all four Gauss Flux Arcs just because you're not going to have enough units in their gunsights, I think the Monolith's firing actions are nowhere near as overpowered as they appear on paper. And that's really the key to the Monolith. Other than the Particle Whip (which, as far as ordnance templates go is mediocre at best), it really doesn't have a sick amount of firepower when you get right down to it. However, it does appear to be nigh indestructible, and I believe that is what balances it. However, I do believe at 200 points it is still a little underpriced, probably on par with a Stormraven. Oh well, it's about time the Necrons caught a break with an undercosted unit, considering the premium we have to pay for everything except our basic troops.

King Pariah wrote:

Swara wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:Scythes just became a LOT better. The limited range on a Doom Scythe means almost nothing now if you are running supersonic...not to mention that most things will need a 6 to hit you, which really helps the AV 11 survive.

Hell yes they do. I hope they aren't real hard to put together, because I'm buying 12 of these suckers the day they come out (I also hope it'll be easy to magnetize them so you can switch all them up.. like 12 Doomscythes in apoc.. )

I'm assuming that you didn't look at the Apoc section of the 6th edition rulebook. Anyway, In order to bring 12 doomscythes, you'd have to also bring at least 4 HQ choices and 8 troop choices to fill the detachment requirements with all detachments having to follow Force Org.

I didn't see a specific spot for apoc, just the multiple detachment large games (same thing I guess? lol)
That's where my 125 troops and 10 lords come in.

Azazel, if you are correct.. god help us all.... well except me, I'll have 3 mother ******* monoliths.

Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Bond wrote:Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Nothing major I suppose. It is less dangerous to deep strike now other than defensive fire, but that is just within 12". So in theory you could DS out of 12" combat move 8" and shoot. I guess you could even DS 18" away and no scatter and line up, move 8" then shoot your 12" weapons into a group in theory, because you would have to be right on the money. I think you can measure the 18" when you DS though.

What is the melee qualities of it? I just remember it's an assault 1 ap 2 weapon.

EDIT: woops, got the range wrong. It's 6", so you could still DS 13" out and hope not to scatter, combat move and shoot.

In all though.. I still don't see a lot of use out of these.. I mean you could try to take out some termies with them, but then they would get wrecked next turn and are expensive to boot.

Really with the new no scatter rules for DP if you are over 18" away, it would be more cost effective to use just plain destoyers. Drop them 24" away, hit on 2+ and blow up some space marines. I'm not sure how you were wanting to use them though, I'm just rambling, which I do, being that I'm bored at work.

Bond wrote:Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Not much can save them, short of a amendment to their rules.

40 pts gets you:
• Very little kill power. (6" guns, 1A)
• Poor Survivability (1W, 3+ and no invul for 40pts doesn't cut it)

They are just the bastard child as other units in the book serve the same role only better.

For me, (just for fun ) I'm going to teleport my group of lychguard with shields within 6" of a heavy weapon squad. (such as lascannons)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tapeworm711 wrote:

Bond wrote:Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Not much can save them, short of a amendment to their rules.

40 pts gets you:
• Very little kill power. (6" guns, 1A)
• Poor Survivability (1W, 3+ and no invul for 40pts doesn't cut it)

They are just the bastard child as other units in the book serve the same role only better.

I'd have to agree. They look cool, but there is a reason they are the only unit in the book that I can't remember the rules for..

Swara wrote:For me, (just for fun ) I'm going to teleport my group of lychguard with shields within 6" of a heavy weapon squad. (such as lascannons)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tapeworm711 wrote:

Bond wrote:Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Not much can save them, short of a amendment to their rules.

40 pts gets you:
• Very little kill power. (6" guns, 1A)
• Poor Survivability (1W, 3+ and no invul for 40pts doesn't cut it)

They are just the bastard child as other units in the book serve the same role only better.

I'd have to agree. They look cool, but there is a reason they are the only unit in the book that I can't remember the rules for..

Would they get the 5++ for having a "normal" power weapon in assault? That would be a nice bonus for them.

tiekwando wrote:

Swara wrote:For me, (just for fun ) I'm going to teleport my group of lychguard with shields within 6" of a heavy weapon squad. (such as lascannons)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tapeworm711 wrote:

Bond wrote:Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Not much can save them, short of a amendment to their rules.

40 pts gets you:
• Very little kill power. (6" guns, 1A)
• Poor Survivability (1W, 3+ and no invul for 40pts doesn't cut it)

They are just the bastard child as other units in the book serve the same role only better.

I'd have to agree. They look cool, but there is a reason they are the only unit in the book that I can't remember the rules for..

Would they get the 5++ for having a "normal" power weapon in assault? That would be a nice bonus for them.

No. All of their weapons have special abilities.

Tapeworm711 wrote:

tiekwando wrote:

Swara wrote:For me, (just for fun ) I'm going to teleport my group of lychguard with shields within 6" of a heavy weapon squad. (such as lascannons)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tapeworm711 wrote:

Bond wrote:Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Not much can save them, short of a amendment to their rules.

40 pts gets you:
• Very little kill power. (6" guns, 1A)
• Poor Survivability (1W, 3+ and no invul for 40pts doesn't cut it)

They are just the bastard child as other units in the book serve the same role only better.

I'd have to agree. They look cool, but there is a reason they are the only unit in the book that I can't remember the rules for..

Would they get the 5++ for having a "normal" power weapon in assault? That would be a nice bonus for them.

No. All of their weapons have special abilities.

What rules do their Power Weapons have? Nothing in the codex as it stands would imply they do anything besides be a power weapon and function as a gun.

When it says a power weapon gives 5++, it notes that power weapons with other special rules don't give that. Those other special rules include things like coarse, 2-handed, channel, +1 str, and so on. Given that the Rods of Covenant have none of those, it would seem safe to assume they are just a regular power weapon and confer the "Parry" ability.

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

Tapeworm711 wrote:

tiekwando wrote:

Swara wrote:For me, (just for fun ) I'm going to teleport my group of lychguard with shields within 6" of a heavy weapon squad. (such as lascannons)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tapeworm711 wrote:

Bond wrote:Can someone tell us if these new rules affect praetorians in a positive way and make them better? Especially the Rod of the Covenant variant? I havent had time to look at the leaked rules in depth yet

Not much can save them, short of a amendment to their rules.

40 pts gets you:
• Very little kill power. (6" guns, 1A)
• Poor Survivability (1W, 3+ and no invul for 40pts doesn't cut it)

They are just the bastard child as other units in the book serve the same role only better.

I'd have to agree. They look cool, but there is a reason they are the only unit in the book that I can't remember the rules for..

Would they get the 5++ for having a "normal" power weapon in assault? That would be a nice bonus for them.

No. All of their weapons have special abilities.

What rules do their Power Weapons have? Nothing in the codex as it stands would imply they do anything besides be a power weapon and function as a gun.

When it says a power weapon gives 5++, it notes that power weapons with other special rules don't give that. Those other special rules include things like coarse, 2-handed, channel, +1 str, and so on. Given that the Rods of Covenant have none of those, it would seem safe to assume they are just a regular power weapon and confer the "Parry" ability.

Since we don't have the Necron 6ed FAQ. My guess is they will no longer be listed as "Power Weapons" and be listed as "AP2" like most other weapons in the rule book. Also, Rods are Two Handed as they are modeled.

Tapeworm711 wrote:Since we don't the Necron 6ed FAQ. My guess is they will no longer be listed as "Power Weapons" and be listed as "AP2" like most other weapons in the rule book. Also, Rods are Two Handed as they are modeled.

Ehh, yeah without the final codex update and the final rules we can't be certain. My point is more that, given the fact praetorians suck currently, and their guns will become even more useless, it seems like they're going to give them the parry rule to make it somewhat worthwhile to take a squad. Whereas Warscythes are listed as 2-handed weapons in their description, Rods of Covenant don't say that and instead are merely called a "power weapon" for CC use.

Honestly, I think they're going to revamp the Praetorians (or at least their weapons) in the 6th edition update quite a bit. It seems like what they were going for was some kind of extended reach type of ability by giving them a 6-inch gun with the same str and armor piercing capability as their close combat attacks, probably as a way to let them kill things before getting into combat and being chopped up first (due to low initiative). I wouldn't be surprised if in the update, Praetorians are like, able to attack at init 10 for a single attack then do regular close combat attacks at init 2 or something, to represent their prowess in close combat or something.

It's all speculation of course, but I'd say if I played a game today using the leaked rules a covenant rod would give me a 5++ for close combat.

I would imagine that Rod Praetorians get the 5++, but without being able to shoot before charging, they just won't do enough damage to take out anything.

Another interesting change might be the Vanguard. With Nemsor acting as a beacon, Vanguard will be able to charge 6" after DSing without scatter, along with his squad. Couldn't one also put him with some Spyders and then pull the whole thing through his super VOD?

The fact that the Rod of the Covenant is an assault weapon, it grants the Praetorians +1 Attack when used as a secondary weapon...So they'll have 3 A on the charge with a purported 5++ save, and a 5+++ afterwards. Not nearly as good as Lychguard, in my opinion, with the exception that they charge 18" while LG only charge 12"

tetrisphreak wrote:The fact that the Rod of the Covenant is an assault weapon, it grants the Praetorians +1 Attack when used as a secondary weapon...So they'll have 3 A on the charge with a purported 5++ save, and a 5+++ afterwards. Not nearly as good as Lychguard, in my opinion, with the exception that they charge 18" while LG only charge 12"

To get the extra attack as a secondary weapon then you have to have a primary as well. The only weapon they have is the rod, so no extra attack : (. I do hope they get a 5++ though. Would at least make them bareble.

Swara wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:The fact that the Rod of the Covenant is an assault weapon, it grants the Praetorians +1 Attack when used as a secondary weapon...So they'll have 3 A on the charge with a purported 5++ save, and a 5+++ afterwards. Not nearly as good as Lychguard, in my opinion, with the exception that they charge 18" while LG only charge 12"

To get the extra attack as a secondary weapon then you have to have a primary as well. The only weapon they have is the rod, so no extra attack : (. I do hope they get a 5++ though. Would at least make them bareble.

good catch. I have never used praetorians, i forgot they only carry the big staff when using the Rod.

tetrisphreak wrote:

Swara wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:The fact that the Rod of the Covenant is an assault weapon, it grants the Praetorians +1 Attack when used as a secondary weapon...So they'll have 3 A on the charge with a purported 5++ save, and a 5+++ afterwards. Not nearly as good as Lychguard, in my opinion, with the exception that they charge 18" while LG only charge 12"

To get the extra attack as a secondary weapon then you have to have a primary as well. The only weapon they have is the rod, so no extra attack : (. I do hope they get a 5++ though. Would at least make them bareble.

good catch. I have never used praetorians, i forgot they only carry the big staff when using the Rod.

I think every Necron player I've meet doesn't use them, for good reason, lol. Poor little guys : (

Praets are the new Pariah, with a slightly less fitting name.

whigwam wrote:Praets are the new Pariah, with a slightly less fitting name.

Yup they are defining turd that is for sure.

Now with the release of the "not Tomb Blades" from puppet wars I'm looking at them in 6th edition.

For 20 points you get a bike that can take a twin linked Gauss blaster and have relentless.

That's Move 16" into terrain (ignoring it) and shooting 2 shots at 18". For 3 more points you get a more awesome immortal in a smaller group that is harder to hit (jink) and faster. Yeah only a 4+ save, but the 5 toughness makes up for that IMO. Also they can take a 10 point upgrade giving them a small blast S6 AP5..

Then again, Void Blade Praetorians did not change at all, except for being able to assault 9" after a deepstrike. Seems like a decent enough little anti-tank package there.

I'm hoping for tomb blades in the second wave - I used to run destroyerwing (back when it and wraithwing were all we had left. So... about 5 months ago.) and enjoyed zooming around the place. Moar of that is good.

Swara wrote:Azazel, if you are correct.. god help us all.... well except me, I'll have 3 mother ******* monoliths.

You and me, both.

Seriously, Jink makes the Tomb Blades very, very good... gaining the +1 for moving and another +1 for Jink means that BS 4 will only hit on a 6+ if I recall the table correctly. At 20 points for a TL Tesla Cannon, that is a very good harrier unit. But alas, it competes with my Destroyers, who will deliver blissful death to Blood Angels now, and that I cannot pass up.

I was considering Pbeamer blades. 5 PBeamer blades is very cheap for a bunch of highspeed S6 blasts, and might prove to be good at making infantry blobs go away very very fast. Would need to test it to be sure, though.

azazel the cat wrote:

Swara wrote:Azazel, if you are correct.. god help us all.... well except me, I'll have 3 mother ******* monoliths.

You and me, both.

Seriously, Jink makes the Tomb Blades very, very good... gaining the +1 for moving and another +1 for Jink means that BS 4 will only hit on a 6+ if I recall the table correctly. At 20 points for a TL Tesla Cannon, that is a very good harrier unit. But alas, it competes with my Destroyers, who will deliver blissful death to Blood Angels now, and that I cannot pass up.

Sorry, not quite that good. The leak shows that remaining stationary is a -1 to EV, but moving is a +/-0 to EV. Jink gives +1, so moving tomb blades will be hit on 4+ by Space Marines and 5+ by Tau Firewarriors, and 6+ by Orks.

Right, but that with a 5T for a 20 point model? I'll be taking them most likely. Probably with gauss blasters though. They are bikes which gives them relentless which means twin linked weapons can fire twice at 18".. all for the same 20 points.

Swara wrote:Right, but that with a 5T for a 20 point model? I'll be taking them most likely. Probably with gauss blasters though. They are bikes which gives them relentless which means twin linked weapons can fire twice at 18".. all for the same 20 points.

Oh no kidding, I love tomb blades and I'll be buying a full squad of 5 once they have models.

I want mine with particle beamers, however, to lay down the hurt with 5 s6 small templates. With the new rules of blast weapons they'll be getting between 10 and 20 hits at s6 per shooting phase, consistently.

Smexy! /)^3^(\

I just ordered 3 from Puppets wars to mix in as my "leader" for if they come out with some that are less expensive from GW. I'm going to have a fast themed army with the bikes and tomb blades everywhere. The blast templates are indeed very sexy and I'll probably 1 group of 5 of those and 2 groups of gauss blasters, but I'll have to play test it some.

I think Phaeron actually got better in this rule set since you can now double tap outside of charge range of normal infantry, considering its only 20pts if you used it twice a game with 20 warriors thats 40 extra S4 shots, well worth the points.

Give them a cryptek so they can teleport in 19" away, move up and 40 shots to the butt.

Phaeron didn't take a hit, it not only extends double tap but in assault units with relentless can use their rapid fire and heavy weapons for +1 attack. That is awesome.

Skywalker049 wrote:Phaeron didn't take a hit, it not only extends double tap but in assault units with relentless can use their rapid fire and heavy weapons for +1 attack. That is awesome.

If they already have another CC weapon. Which necron unit has both a rapid/heavy weapon and a CC weapon? As far as my admittedly cursory glance, the only thing that can actually make use of the new "Assault weapons give +1 attack with a non coarse CC weapon" are tachyon arrows. 30 points for an extra attack anyone? Not with warscythes though, those are two handed.

I had another cursory glance through the book, and I didn't see a -1 Modifier for "AP -" anymore. If that's true, Tesla got even more useful!

Sasori wrote:I had another cursory glance through the book, and I didn't see a -1 Modifier for "AP -" anymore. If that's true, Tesla got even more useful!

I think they also took out the +1 for being open topped as well ʘ‿ʘ

Swara wrote:

Sasori wrote:I had another cursory glance through the book, and I didn't see a -1 Modifier for "AP -" anymore. If that's true, Tesla got even more useful!

I think they also took out the +1 for being open topped as well ʘ‿ʘ

Yeah, I posted that earlier in the thread

Well, I've slept since then! /)^3^(\

Swara wrote:Well, I've slept since then! /)^3^(\

I can't make out that, emoticon, lol.


I've really been enjoying my Necrons in 5th, and if these leaked rules are even somewhat true, I may enjoy them even more in 6th!

Sasori wrote:

Swara wrote:Well, I've slept since then! /)^3^(\

I can't make out that, emoticon, lol.


I've really been enjoying my Necrons in 5th, and if these leaked rules are even somewhat true, I may enjoy them even more in 6th!

Yes, I should enjoy them more and spend all my monies yet again!

Oh and..

I'm just curious as to how these changes will affect list building.

As units in transports are no longer able to hold objectives I think the meta will shift to more durable troops as opposed to MSU warriors in Ghost arks.

The buff to rapid fire also helps a lot in the troops sections as Gauss now becomes a very viable option again. Foot troops are also faster.

How are these changes going to affect list choices like annihilation barges, scarabs, and Catacomb command barges? Or other stuff considered a staple in 5th? Or will the configuration of units change? Is the 20 man warrior blob viable now or other unit configurations?

I'm curious... I seem to remember reading in the 6th Ed. rules that Skimmers would not block LOS anymore. Or perhaps I just invented this and am now crazy. Anyway, if that is the case, and since units in transports cannot hold objectives any longer, could the Necrons not revive the Tau 'fish of fury' (I think that's what it was called?)

The buffs to rapid fire certainly seems conducive to the tactic, and the Ghost Ark benefit of the D3 model repair, combined with the long and thin shape of the Ghost Ark make it seem like this would be a very powerful way to sit on objectives.

Again, assuming the LOS actually works.



EDIT: spelling

Yes, anything with a base (including skimmers since they are on flying bases) is not counted for LOS and does not automatically grant a cover save. Fish-of-Fury will be viable again, albeit with an 8" move+disembark instead of 12" (since you can only get out of a vehicle, closed or open, if it moves combat speed or less).

*note* Intervening units can give cover saves to other units receiving fire if the owning player uses the special rule "Look Out, Sergeant!" on them. They take a critical hit for every passed 5+ cover save. So using a meat wall makes sense now, if they were giving you cover then those models are susceptible to dying as well!

tetrisphreak wrote:Yes, anything with a base (including skimmers since they are on flying bases) is not counted for LOS and does not automatically grant a cover save. Fish-of-Fury will be viable again, albeit with an 8" move+disembark instead of 12" (since you can only get out of a vehicle, closed or open, if it moves combat speed or less).

*note* Intervening units can give cover saves to other units receiving fire if the owning player uses the special rule "Look Out, Sergeant!" on them. They take a critical hit for every passed 5+ cover save. So using a meat wall makes sense now, if they were giving you cover then those models are susceptible to dying as well!

My point is that the Ghost Ark's repair protocols, as well as it's slender design seems to mesh beautifully with this tactic. Coupled with the 18" rapid fire and the fact that the Ghost Ark is AV 13 on its side, I think this may be a fantastic tactic for parking on objectives. I can't think of any other Necron units that I would use as meat shields, just because the range is so short and they fold so fast in CC.

EDIT: spelling

azazel the cat wrote:My point is that the Ghost Ark's repair protocols, as well as it's slender design seems to mesh beautifully with this tactic. Coupled with the 18" rapid fire and the fact that the Ghost Ark is AV 13 on its side, I think this may be a fantastic tactic for parking on objectives. I can't think of any other Necron units that I would use as meat shields, just because the range is so short and they fold so fast in CC.

Wow this is a really good idea. Might level the playing field between Immortals and warriors as I seem to see more people favoring Immortals over Warriors now. Where does this leave other unit configurations of warriors? I can still see the 5 Warrior squad seeing game play but with the need to hold objective all game and not just at the end of play I think it will be less useful, but not completely useless.

I see the 10 warrior "Pirate ship of Furry" being quite common and effective as azazel mentioned.

And then there is the 20 warrior blob, supported by an Overlord or Lord and possibly a cryptek of some flavor. With the need for durable troops I really see this option getting better. Just the changes to Rapid Fire make this unit much better. I also think there is a stratagem that gives one unit stubborn. 20 stubborn warriors with a scythe and MSS support would be a pain to shift off an objective. Even more so if you have a couple Arks for your "Fish of Fury" warriors floating around reanimating the blob.

I might have to make warriors and not immortals my go to troop choice. I'd use a couple "Arks of Fury" and a large blob to advance midfield. I'd take 2nd turn to get the stubborn stratagem then watch their alpha strike fizzle thanks to my solar pulse.

alspal8me wrote:I see the 10 warrior "Pirate ship of Furry" being quite common and effective as azazel mentioned.

Erm... you mean "Fury", right? Because, uh, it's a very different thing.

I think the 20-Warrior blob works best with the Pirate Ship tactic: you put 10 Warriors inside the boat, and keep ten behind the boat-wall, so that the unit can hold an objective as well as dish out a huge amount of firepower. Nobody is going to charge into 20 rapid-fire Gauss shots just to assault the Ark, because even after the Ark is gone the assaulting unit will get shot again.


EDIT: typos

azazel the cat wrote:

alspal8me wrote:I see the 10 warrior "Pirate ship of Furry" being quite common and effective as azazel mentioned.

Erm... you mean "Fury", right? Because, uh, it's a very different thing.

I think the 20-Warrior blob works best with the Pirate Ship tactic: you put 10 Warriors inside the boat, and keep ten behind the boat-wall, so that the unit can hold an objective as well as dish out a huge amount of firepower. Nobody is going to charge into 20 rapid-fire Gauss shots just to assault the Ark, because even after the Ark is gone the assaulting unit will get shot again.


EDIT: typos

Except you can't do that with a 20 man blob - the entire unit must be able to embark or nobody can.

With the scoring rules being that you must be disembarked to score objectives, I can see Warriors gaining favor over immortals with their ability to repair with RP rolls as well as ghost arks replenishing the squads that camp on objectives.

tetrisphreak wrote:Except you can't do that with a 20 man blob - the entire unit must be able to embark or nobody can.

Since when? Did I miss something?

Since ever. 3rd ed onwards