Hi,
guess this should not be buried in the release schedule thread.
Hastings, a trusted rumour monger for years, announced quitting the rumour business because 80% of current rumours are deliberately made up. This started a heated Warseer discussion on credibility of rumours, in which ghost21 posted this
ghost21 wrote:I made It up,I wont be posting any more
So if you see an old rumour thread with rumours by him, don't give it any value. This includes a lot of Tau, Black Templar, Sororitas, Eldar, Hrud, Fantasy Contingent Supplement among others. While his first correct rumours about Dreadfleet gave him some credibility, he was wrong on a real Sororitas Codex with plastic releases and most other things that were released until now. That's why I was reluctant lately to post his rumours when not backed up by real rumour mongers like Harry, Hastings, BramGaunt and Frgt/10. But keep in mind that some things may turn out true even if made up, because ghost21 read rumour threads and used part of it when making up things.
So the quantity of real rumours remains quite low due to GW's anti-word-of-mouth-campaign. While rumours are not facts and always can turn out false, a few black sheep deliberately make up rumours to enjoy public attention. This is not cool. But we have to deal with this. Good thing seems to be that Hastings is back posting rumours about the next 40k starter set
Cheers, Kroothawk
BTW, here an insightful post on the topic by straightsilver:
I used to post rumours fairly regularly, and more often thatn not they haven't always panned out at all, or if they did not in the way that was expected.
I'm sure this is the case for all the rumour mongers.
This doesn't necessarily mean that the rumour was strictly wrong, things do change but there is also an element of Chinese Whispers as well.
By the time it gets to Warseer (or other forums) it is more often than not 3rd hand information at least.
There has only been one rumour that I have posted that I was 100% certain about, and that's because it came directly from Jes Goodwin, however in in that instance I feel out of respect for Jes that maybe I shouldn't have posted it,
Although in my defence it wasn't apparent that anything he said was top secret, but in hindsight maybe it was only meant for my ears and not the wider community.
I have however posted other rumours when I wasn't so sure because I thought it's what the community wanted, but unfortunately that isn't always the case.
Rumours are just that. The only people that really know are the people at the top, and it's not often that anybody gets to speak to them.
I have 2 sources at GWHQ, both of whom I have been friends with for 20 or so years, and both of whom hold positions that I would consider to be very reliable.
However they are not necessarily privy to the GW release schedule, just what projects they are working on at the time.
We alll know that GW often holds back releases until they feel it is the optimum time for them to sel them, and more often than not they are held back for a reason, and that means changes will be made.
And any source is of course only human, they have opinions and predictions of their own, which then get passed on by somebody else, and somebody else etc. These rumours get embellished and added to long before they get onto the internet.
GW at the very least know 3 months in advance what is coming as that's when White Dwarf is sent to the printers, but I suspect it is a bit more than that.
What I will say is that I have held back on posting rumours for several reasons.
One of which is the trolling or flaming that occurs, but to be honest I am big enough and old enough to ignore that.
But the other reason is because I have been asked not to. I haven't got anybody into trouble, but obviously things said to me by my friends probably shouldn't be repeated on these types of forums.
And the other simple reason is that there simply aren't that many rumours at the moment, or at least not that I can discern.
Thinngs at GWHQ have got a lot tighter, sources have become a lot more tight lipped and although people are working on projects they aren't necessarily told when these things will be released, they are as in the dark as the rest of us.
Obviously they have the same deadlines but this doesn't necessarily equate to a release date any more.
There are projects that have been on the go for more than 2 years now, but there is no indication they will be released any time soon.
So I guess my point is don't be too hard on thhose that do provide rumours, just accept that's alll they are unless they can be absolutely certain it's true (which more often then not thhey can't).
If I would also address the OP, the reason there are simply so many rumours regarding 40K at the moment is simply that there is just so much 40K stuff going on at Notts at the moment.
It is quite possible that projects that should have come out last year were being held back for the 25th aniversary, or it may just be that upon completion GW weren't happy with the end project and had put it on hold.
I would also like to say thankyou to all the rumour mongers, I still enjoy reading them even if they don't pan out so don't be put off posting them.
Thanks for this Kroot (not to mention your sterling efforts in collating rumours on behalf of lazy buggers like me ).
It is a shame that advance knowledge of anything is becoming increasingly difficult to get hold of and I do appreciate straightsilver's difficult position (I wouldn't like to think I could be getting my mates into trouble just for internet cookies) and his candour in that post.
The real tragedy, of course is that GW cannot throw us a bone themselves. The buzz created by the 6th ed playtest leak was quite incredible, given the usual level of vitriol sent in GWs direction - including by myself as I'll be the first to admit. At some point they may see the value in building up anticipation in their fanbase (presumably when the company is run by people who know one end of a network cable from another) but until then we'll have to feed off the crumbs
At least some of the reliable sources are battling on. Fingers crossed that we can start to get a better feel of things as we go through the next few months.
doesn't surprise me that this stuff happens. I like to read rumors but I really don't bother believing anything till I see it come from GW (a day before it's released).
Between being wrong about Sisters, inferring Blood of Kittens to be untrustworthy, the Hrud codex rumors were all pretty damning, but politely being eviscerated by ADB was the final nail in the coffin.
....really, guys? A Hrud codex? That should have sent red flags all over the place.
pretre wrote:No way, ghost21 is unreliable!
Now you have a lot of thread editing to do, Kroothawk.
Actually no, because I always state the sources I quote.
And when MajorTom11 urged me two months ago to compile ghost21's numerous Tau rumours, this is what I replied (25th November):
Hi Major,
I might do it by just tsarting a new thread and you then closing this one.
To be frank, I am uncomfortable with posting the flood of ghost21 rumours. He was dead on with Dreadfleet and that was his entry in the rumour business. He then flooded Warseer with rumours about everything, some far in the future (including the Hrud Codex he believes in but seems to just be a joke test Codex for internal training purposes), the rest proven false like his detailed description of the August Sororitas release (slight chance that the miniatures are ready and he saw then, but big chance that it was either made up or fed falsly).
On Tau, some things are nobrainers and easy to invent, other things sound fishy like "similar to the Battletech mech with the ancient weapon name"
That's why I didn't start a Chaos Codex and Black Templar thread: Too far in the future, only source ghost21. I posted stickmonkey also speculative and far future rumours, but somehow I have a bad feeling with this one and would prefer to have ghost21 proven more reliable.
Anyway, I will start a new Tau thread with a certain disclaimer on salt usage. Hope that helps.
Cheers, Kroothawk.
I simply do not understand the support that sometimes ghost21 receives. He was labeled as an untrustworthy source a long time ago, but he kept posting deliberately false rumours for unknown reasons.
Surely he didn't kill anyone but what he did is still unpleasant. Since WH40k is a wonderful hobby, a lot of people wants to be informed about it... sometimes also to project spending behaviour since it's a damn expensive hobby.
Deliberately posting false rumours can be innocuous for those that keep themselves continuously informed, but can be a real punch in the face for those that didn't know that ghost was a totally unreliable source...
I will not defend or find justifications for him... he acted in weird way showing mass disrepect for the community.
aka_mythos wrote:At least it gave us something to talk about. That's more than GW's done.
This is a terrible opinion to hold. At no point is being intentionally deceived better, and it absolves posters like ghost21 of what they've done.
Saying that people are often deceived by a lot of things, particularly guys. How many guys have gone out with a girl simply because she is good looking but deep down secretly know that really she only wants you for the money.
People believe what they want to believe if it makes them feel good, I have nothing against those who want to believe what they really know is untrue, so I think aka_mythos is right at least it gave some people some happiness, especially those on the tyranid 2nd wave rumor thread
This post by SoD on Warseer seems pertinent and quite well written
If anything, we (as in the 'rumour audience') are the problem - and I include myself in that.
When did it become so important to know everything about an upcoming release before it is actually released? I can understand the temptation but it reminds me of rooting around in your parents' cupboard as a kid in the lead up to Christmas in the hope of discovering your presents. There is an initial burst of excitement but when the big day comes you're left with a feeling of emptiness because there's no big surprise. This is exactly what happened with the 4th ed Eldar 'dex - we knew pretty much everything a whole month before the release.
Perhaps we've become spoilt. I think this is evident in some of the posts I have seen with some people even talking of quitting the hobby because the latest rumour suggests that their army of choice isn't coming out for another two years. Get a grip people.
It's only natural to want to know if your favourite army is on the horizon but is there really any need to know every minute detail before you get the codex in your hands? I applaud GW for trying to remain so tight lipped in recent years.
So I can't really complain too much if it has become incredibly difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff due to the deluge of rumours. Our furious demand has created this environment and if it has become a circus due to the number of contradictory rumours flying around then I think that is a lesson for us all.
I don't take any of the rumors seriously. I even thought that the command barge pictures from BOW were fake, only because it looked ridiculous. Turns out the one with the destroyer pilots was a fake though, so I was partly right!
This post by SoD on Warseer seems pertinent and quite well written
If anything, we (as in the 'rumour audience') are the problem - and I include myself in that.
When did it become so important to know everything about an upcoming release before it is actually released? I can understand the temptation but it reminds me of rooting around in your parents' cupboard as a kid in the lead up to Christmas in the hope of discovering your presents. There is an initial burst of excitement but when the big day comes you're left with a feeling of emptiness because there's no big surprise. This is exactly what happened with the 4th ed Eldar 'dex - we knew pretty much everything a whole month before the release.
Perhaps we've become spoilt. I think this is evident in some of the posts I have seen with some people even talking of quitting the hobby because the latest rumour suggests that their army of choice isn't coming out for another two years. Get a grip people.
It's only natural to want to know if your favourite army is on the horizon but is there really any need to know every minute detail before you get the codex in your hands? I applaud GW for trying to remain so tight lipped in recent years.
So I can't really complain too much if it has become incredibly difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff due to the deluge of rumours. Our furious demand has created this environment and if it has become a circus due to the number of contradictory rumours flying around then I think that is a lesson for us all.
That seems about half right. I want to know what's coming up so I know what to save for, what to look forward to, and so on. We don't like being kept in the dark, but we don't necessarily need the full codex leak ahead of time either. We may or may not want to know exactly what presents are in that closet, but at the very least we want to know that there ARE presents in that closet.
aka_mythos wrote:At least it gave us something to talk about. That's more than GW's done.
This is a terrible opinion to hold. At no point is being intentionally deceived better, and it absolves posters like ghost21 of what they've done.
I agree. People shouldn't post deliberately made-up rumors. Personally, I not going to hold such a poster over a barrel. Hate makes my hair fall out . I'm just going to move on and ignore them in the future.
Brother SRM wrote:I want to know what's coming up so I know what to save for, what to look forward to, and so on. We don't like being kept in the dark...
aka_mythos wrote:At least it gave us something to talk about. That's more than GW's done.
This is a terrible opinion to hold. At no point is being intentionally deceived better, and it absolves posters like ghost21 of what they've done.
I agree. People shouldn't post deliberately made-up rumors. Personally, I not going to hold such a poster over a barrel. Hate makes my hair fall out . I'm just going to move on and ignore them in the future.
I'm not saying anyone should have made up rumors. Its a criticism of GW, that one guy trying to decieve us all was more entertaining than a $200M company in this very narrow way.
Ratius wrote:This post by SoD on Warseer seems pertinent and quite well written
It's really not. If he needs that surprise to make a new army fun, that's his problem. As a former would-be Sisters player, my concerns were rather simpler: I wanted a reason not to write GW off completely. I'd been waiting for a plastic Sisters of Battle kit since I was in high school, and there's a pretty good chance that I'd still be waiting when I hit my thirties, if I hadn't left. That's just fething depressing.
aka_mythos wrote:I'm not saying anyone should have made up rumors. Its a criticism of GW, that one guy trying to decieve us all was more entertaining than a $200M company in this very narrow way.
Someone intentionally deceiving you is more entertaining than anything GW does? Seriously?
I wish they would become at least semi-transparent with their releases.
I'd just want to know which army was next, or even the plans for the quarter, half year or hell even a year! Maybe even small teasers from the art department/studio.
Obviously that won't happen as you'd get pre-emptive strikes by 3rd party companies. Not that GW shouldn't be able to fend them off. Healthy competition and all that.
Right now they're trying to see how keeping everyone in the dark works. They mentioned it was the plan at the last GD, and that it was subject to change if it didn't work. The reasoning is that people see new toys on the shelf and the average consumer goes OH MAH GAHD I GOTTA HAVE THAT and they buy things on impulse, rather than holding off and saving for what they really want.
I think it also costs them sales too, I'm such an example. I found a great deal for an old Eldar Megaforce on Ebay ($160) and began playing Eldar. However a week later, the Dark Eldar Megaforce came out on GW's website and I probably would have gone for that instead. Thus GW lost out. I'm not alone in this kind of phenomenon. People save up, buy things, then a week later something they had no idea about comes out.
Really they should put in their new Blog thing what new projects they're working on. Doesn't even have to include details.
Harriticus wrote:
Really they should put in their new Blog thing what new projects they're working on. Doesn't even have to include details.
Back in late 4th ed they used to post teasers and such on their website. I remember seeing greens of Dark Reapers, sketches, and pictures of the then-new Eldar range in a sneak peek part of the site. It was cool, and I miss it.
Medium of Death wrote: I'd just want to know which army was next
Exactly this. I want to know what's next, know that my BT are coming, but if I have to be surprised about what's in it, that's okay-they don't have to give us details about what's in the book if they really feel they need to keep that hidden. But at least tell us the next book. We can speculate, draw up thoughts online and get super excited without ever needing leaked information. If we know our book isn't coming for a while, we can start other projects: "Aww, Necrons are coming next. Not [my army]. Well, let's see what kinds of things were in the old Necron book and see what people think of it. *thumbs through old book, looks at discussions on 'Crons* Wow, these guys are awesome-maybe I'll pick up the next book while I wait for [my army] to come out." Success for GW's wallet, customers know what's coming...everyone wins.
I sort of figured this out the first time I read one of his rumours. When ADB called his bluff, I completely disregarded what he posted. I simply don't know why so many people kept believing him even after ADB called him out.
bhsman wrote:Between being wrong about Sisters, inferring Blood of Kittens to be untrustworthy, the Hrud codex rumors were all pretty damning, but politely being eviscerated by ADB was the final nail in the coffin.
....really, guys? A Hrud codex? That should have sent red flags all over the place.
Yea he was way off on the sisters, but the "Hrud" rumors might of been GW using the Hrud name to test things like Entropic strike or other concepts that didn't make it or will appear in future codices.
Ghost really stuck to the Hrud rumors. In the Fantasy Contingents thread people started openly questioning the more stupid parts of it & he still made a cryptic remark about how Hrud weren't fake.
aka_mythos wrote:I'm not saying anyone should have made up rumors. Its a criticism of GW, that one guy trying to decieve us all was more entertaining than a $200M company in this very narrow way.
Someone intentionally deceiving you is more entertaining than anything GW does? Seriously?
That would imply I believed him. The momemnt I stopped believing him was when certain ideas I had openly discussed very thoroughly on forums not too long before he posted appeared in his rumors. I originally said "he gave us something to talk about" and that's more than GW's done.
We are hobbyists and by extension fans, but fans need something to be excited about or they wither and become bored. GW's a gardener in the desert depriving us of water and food, with the expectation that we will still bear fruit. We are but weeds getting pissed on by a passing coyote, sustained for another day but none too happier.
People pay magicians to decieve them because that can be entertaining. People read gossip magazines that are wrong most of the time, thats enteraining. Like I said I'm not happy he lied, but I can still be entertained. GW on the hand, I yawn at them.
I don't get excited by surprises. I get excited by the anticipation that the surprise is coming.
I really want to bring my Sisters out of retirement, but the lack of info on when models will be updated has killed my enthusiasm. Well, that and because I got into the army for the inquisition freakshow and zealots, with righteous sisters... The contrast enthralls me. Anyway....
So, while I appreciate SoD's perspective, it should be clearly stated that (s)he by no means speaks for everyone.
I started lizardmen and bought dark elves based on excitement generated by rumors. More recently, I started Orcs and Vamps defensively, buying before price increases (orc boys, and vamp count battalion). Would never have bought any of this stuff had rumors not existed....
Hey so can someone post a link to ADB's discussion of ghost21? Thx
Harriticus wrote:I think it also costs them sales too, I'm such an example. I found a great deal for an old Eldar Megaforce on Ebay ($160) and began playing Eldar. However a week later, the Dark Eldar Megaforce came out on GW's website and I probably would have gone for that instead. Thus GW lost out. I'm not alone in this kind of phenomenon. People save up, buy things, then a week later something they had no idea about comes out.
Really they should put in their new Blog thing what new projects they're working on. Doesn't even have to include details.
The problem with this is how much earlier and surely the same would happen either way.
For example imagine you bought that mega force, then a week later you get the teaser image/message saying this new dark eldar stuff is coming. Either then you would still be in the same predicament both can and do happen. So telling people early doesn't solve this just people seem less vocal about it.
The difference from GW perspective is that if they do the "this is coming"/teaser thing too early things cool and the impulse buys are lost because people know it's coming but they can't pre-order/buy it because it isn't on the site.
IMO things should get released/people informed when they are done, it is a bit like throwing things over the wall but beats IMO very early teasers.
There is always something coming and people know that. It is very rare for GW to manage to get out the door more than 2 armies in fantasy and 2 in 40k, sometimes only one. So with that you can make up your minds over who to believe as not all rumors can be correct.
Oh well. Gave us something to chew on, so I don't blame him, necessarily. Also, this puts that little tiff between him and ADB into perspective. ADB was completely right!
I think a new mercenary race is obligatory. Demiurg /wishlist.
No need to wishlist there.
Well, at least I can go ahead with buying ForgeFathers now if all of that stuff about Demiurg was the product of a scurrilous mind.
This post by SoD on Warseer seems pertinent and quite well written
Does it have to be one extreme or the other? As other posters have said above me, half of the fun is being able to anticipate something fun is coming. GW's current strategy is creating absolutely zero anticipation and hype about their products, to the point where even store owners have posted on here saying they are having difficulty building up to a release in a store.
It's stuff that even a first year marketing student would absolutely rip to pieces in terms of established method of selling a new release. I'm not saying GW should show all of the body and give themselves up easily, but a flash of thigh and a wink would get most of us salivating.
Kroothawk wrote:
Hastings, a trusted rumour monger for years, announced quitting the rumour business because 80% of current rumours are deliberately made up. This started a heated Warseer discussion on credibility of rumours, in which ghost21 posted this
ghost21 wrote:I made It up,I wont be posting any more
So if you see an old rumour thread with rumours by him, don't give it any value. This includes a lot of Tau, Black Templar, Sororitas, Eldar, Hrud, Fantasy Contingent Supplement among others. While his first correct rumours about Dreadfleet gave him some credibility, he was wrong on a real Sororitas Codex with plastic releases and most other things that were released until now. That's why I was reluctant lately to post his rumours when not backed up by real rumour mongers like Harry, Hastings, BramGaunt and Frgt/10. But keep in mind that some things may turn out true even if made up, because ghost21 read rumour threads and used part of it when making up things.
I didn't interpret it as "I lied" but more as "That's it!, I give up. I'm outta here!" since he seemed to be at the center of the rumor debates.
Even Harry and ghost discussed that people participate in different part of the development cycle and see the products at different stages. Ghost may be relaying 100% excatly what he saw but we may not see them for some time.. or at all.
Here is a good quote from Inquisitor Engel
Inquisitor Engel wrote:
As someone who actually participated in the writing of the current Tau Empire Codex (Seriously, my full name is under special thanks, just ask) and did playtesting after, I can say that calling someone "wrong" because a Codex doesn't hit their projected dates is just stupid. I watched the Codex I was working on get pushed aside by Tyranids and get delayed just to model work. When I was in the studio, I saw concept work and an initial build of the plastic Gargant, which didn't arrive for another half decade! I also saw Dark Eldar concepts and we know how that turned out!
The point is that rumours and rumours. Things change, have huge upheavals and move around due to factors that no single rumour-monger could ascertain. Things get dropped from Codexes due to a lack of model support, things get added for future expansions of the range, it happens all the time. Background gets rewritten mid-way through development and so on.
Don't count your chickens before the hatch, but don't kill the hen when all you can do is make an omelette.
Brother SRM wrote:The reasoning is that people see new toys on the shelf and the average consumer goes OH MAH GAHD I GOTTA HAVE THAT and they buy things on impulse, rather than holding off and saving for what they really want.
Which is fine, when you are selling a product at impulse prices.
Although, by 'fine' I obviously mean 'a slightly less ridiculous business plan'... If showing people what's coming up just means that they'll be over it by the time it is released and wait for the next release instead, why do movie studios show previews months in advance? Using GW's logic, by the time the movie is released, nobody would be excited about it any more, and would just wait for the next movie.
Far better if the studios just don't tell us what they are working on, no? We can just find out what movies have been released this week when we get to the cinema.
I find it shocking that the nazi mods at warseer didnt try and cover it all up and kill it to perserve there image. We all know they have done far far worse to maintain there version of order.
Ozeo wrote:I find it shocking that the nazi mods at warseer didnt try and cover it all up and kill it to perserve there image. We all know they have done far far worse to maintain there version of order.
Hokiecow wrote:
I didn't interpret it as "I lied" but more as "That's it!, I give up. I'm outta here!" since he seemed to be at the center of the rumor debates.
He literally said he made it all up. There's no ambiguity there.
insaniak wrote:
Which is fine, when you are selling a product at impulse prices.
Although, by 'fine' I obviously mean 'a slightly less ridiculous business plan'... If showing people what's coming up just means that they'll be over it by the time it is released and wait for the next release instead, why do movie studios show previews months in advance? Using GW's logic, by the time the movie is released, nobody would be excited about it any more, and would just wait for the next movie.
Far better if the studios just don't tell us what they are working on, no? We can just find out what movies have been released this week when we get to the cinema.
I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's got to sort of be working for them. I hope it changes before too long though, as I don't think it's good for the hobby.
pretre wrote:No way, ghost21 is unreliable!
Now you have a lot of thread editing to do, Kroothawk.
Actually no, because I always state the sources I quote.
And when MajorTom11 urged me two months ago to compile ghost21's numerous Tau rumours, this is what I replied (25th November):
Hi Major,
I might do it by just tsarting a new thread and you then closing this one.
To be frank, I am uncomfortable with posting the flood of ghost21 rumours. He was dead on with Dreadfleet and that was his entry in the rumour business. He then flooded Warseer with rumours about everything, some far in the future (including the Hrud Codex he believes in but seems to just be a joke test Codex for internal training purposes), the rest proven false like his detailed description of the August Sororitas release (slight chance that the miniatures are ready and he saw then, but big chance that it was either made up or fed falsly).
On Tau, some things are nobrainers and easy to invent, other things sound fishy like "similar to the Battletech mech with the ancient weapon name"
That's why I didn't start a Chaos Codex and Black Templar thread: Too far in the future, only source ghost21. I posted stickmonkey also speculative and far future rumours, but somehow I have a bad feeling with this one and would prefer to have ghost21 proven more reliable.
Anyway, I will start a new Tau thread with a certain disclaimer on salt usage. Hope that helps.
Cheers, Kroothawk.
Which I took at the time to be very indicative that Kroot does a heck of a lot more than just copy and paste! Said it before and will say it again, we should all be very grateful for all the time Kroot puts in on our behalf
To the topic... well I can't say I'm all that surprised... we all know there are false rumors out there.
The thing is though, I would rather have some rumors, even false ones (within reason obviously) to start discussions and keep it interesting... The whole reason I even started going to mini forums at all was that there used to be a regular and exciting flow of sneak peaks, discussion and the like. Half the fun was anticipating what the rest of the line would look like, the rules or whatnot.
I'll use a movie trailer as an example here... Remember what anticipating what Matrix 2 and 3 would be like? How exciting it was to see the preview the first time, excitement for something new combined with notalgia for the older material? My friends and I were pumped for that flick, and we enjoyed the months leading up to it, discussing it and anticipating based off what we had seen in the trailer. The movie showed up, and it wasn't as great as the first one... which left us feeling a bit let down obviously. But you know what? We still had a great time being excited and interacting with each other based on a trailer for months. Same deal with Phantom Menace. Sure after seeing it it felt like I just got 2 hr long backrub from Grandma... but again, months and months of excitement and enjoyment! That is worth something to me. I would venture to guess it has value for most of us. Anticipation based on trailers is an integral part of every single other entertainment experience I have, it would be a shame to lose it altogether from GW, even if that means we have to deal with false info... That's my take anyways...
Forgive my pedanticness, but there is a noticeable difference between:
"I made It up"
and
"I made it ALL up"
Which one is this???
Why does this seem like a replay of the last, most recent, episode of Sherlock. Those who've watched this series on TV in the last few weeks will understand the reference (if you're painted as the villian enough it's easier to say it was all lies than hang around to explain).
Ozeo wrote:I find it shocking that the nazi mods at warseer didnt try and cover it all up and kill it to perserve there image.
I find it shocking that someone would equate the volunteers who oversee a forum for discussing a game of toy soldiers with an insane and genocidal dictatorial regime. Perspective is a wonderful thing. I would recommend that people try to gain some of it.
The thing that really annoys me about this is the fact that he makes up these rumours, and then when they turn out to not be true, GW takes flak for not following the rumour mill, as if they've declared that they're doing tau in september, and then when they don't do tau in september they've actually been decieving us, rather than it being the fault of the person who supplied dodgy rumours.
I just wish I knew what was on the horizon. It takes time to save up the $500+ it takes to try a new army. Hell with MtG I know what's coming up to June, if not futher.
It means I can set aside money and pre-order, or just get it when it comes time. When you are a college student, parent, kid, etc... it is hard to devote large chunks of money into these hobbies.
and then they pretty much go at it through the rest of that same page on Warseer.
And ADB finally concluded in post#357 with this:
Dead.Blue.Clown wrote:It doesn't need to be so confrontational, really. All I've said is that "it's unlikely (from my understanding of the fluff and the way IP department discusses the lore) that they'd divide the Legions and Renegades into two codices like that" and "I sincerely doubt they'll use new Horus Heresy characters in the codex", then explained why.
I'm not commenting on anything else. I'm not dishing out rumours or denying anything I may or may not have heard, because I like my career. I'm not even definitely saying they won't do those things. Just that it seems ball-achingly unlikely, because, frankly, it does.
I'm sort of confused as to why that's so hard to stomach, or why it requires ghost21 to lie about knowing me, and being in meetings where he wasn't actually present at all.
EDIT: Either way, I've said all I need to say. I've not got a mountain of interest in lingering to partake in some bizarre back-and-forth over nothing.
I'm a gentle soul most of the time but ghost21 looked like a in that exchange.
Ghost's riposte in the very next post #358 was characteristic and all in bold but fortunately not caps.
and apparently ADB couldn't refuse to pick up that gauntlet because he responds on the next page, posts #362 and 364.
and then ADB recaps on this page in posts #462 and 477 with a few familiar faces in between.
I can understand now why ADB has said he has stopped posting on forums, I agree with him when he said that Ghost21's comments were more than a little creepy.
What's more, Ghost21 comes across as extremely immature. He tried to call ADB's bluff, and got badly burned for it.
As a result really you have to discount anything he has said (including the Demiurg, *sniff* )
Brother SRM wrote:Back in late 4th ed they used to post teasers and such on their website. I remember seeing greens of Dark Reapers, sketches, and pictures of the then-new Eldar range in a sneak peek part of the site. It was cool, and I miss it.
Yeah, they used to randomly have new models at GW stores as well. This must have been towards the tail end of 4th edition as it was before the new Ork codex came out but I recall stopping by the Bellevue Battle Bunker and they had a new Ork model along with a few other things (some dwarf stuff if I remember correctly). Took a pic of the Ork (with an actual digital camera since camera phones weren't a thing back then, heh), posted it on the-waaagh, it got posted on warseer, and that was the last time I had any motivation to deal with the whole 'rumor/new release' thing. People go full-slow about this stuff.
Goliath wrote:The thing that really annoys me about this is the fact that he makes up these rumours, and then when they turn out to not be true, GW takes flak for not following the rumour mill, as if they've declared that they're doing tau in september, and then when they don't do tau in september they've actually been decieving us, rather than it being the fault of the person who supplied dodgy rumours.
GWs at fault for not being fourthcoming with information to let consumers know what to save for and worries more about courting the impulse buy then those who want to plan out thier army before the hit hits the shan on the finecost range, the numbers of guys in the box, and letting a player know how much an armies really going to cost them in the long run.
THEN theres that little thing about not coming out and gaking down that roumer mill... There was no "officially official voice of reason." Jervis gave that job up.
Why are you putting stock in this guy anyway? He was called out last year for this very same sort of nonsense, yet everyone turned a blind eye to it and Kroothawk put it to pen all the same...
The old saying goes, fool you once, shame on you, fool you twice, !@#$ it.
Stop posting rumors unless you have some verification, next time.
I'm mostly a lurker that likes the Pit, the Gallery, and the P&M threads unless someone is discussing IG news. I am bored tonight though while waiting for Florida's Republican Primary Returns.
I do think that you are too hard on "nerds" in general and Kroothawk's rumor gathering activity in specific. I think he handles it very carefully and look forward to his future endeavors. "Nerdrage" is really just people killing a little time and maybe venting a bit for spectator sport and relaxation.
Grot 6 wrote:Why are you putting stock in this guy anyway? He was called out last year for this very same sort of nonsense, yet everyone turned a blind eye to it and Kroothawk put it to pen all the same...
(...)
Stop posting rumors unless you have some verification, next time.
1.) His first rumour was surprisingly correct (first one to get Dreadfleet correct)
2.) Gave him credit for his next rumours on Sororitas which turned out to be incorrect.
3.) Since then I either didn't post his rumours or posted them with a caveat.
4.) Verified rumours are not rumours anymore. If you read rumours, you have to accept that they can be false. If you read them longer, you learn to estimate which sources are more credible than others. But even rumours by other sources can be valid, that's why I usually post them (with source). One example is the early Finecast rumour by someone who has never posted rumours before (although a trusted veteran). Early rumours are prone to changes, so not for the faint of heart, but mostly entertaining or informative (like knowing that Black Templar sculpts are done for 3 years and since then waiting for a release). That's why I don't stop posting rumours even if you don't approve.
UsdiThunder wrote:I just wish I knew what was on the horizon. It takes time to save up the $500+ it takes to try a new army. Hell with MtG I know what's coming up to June, if not futher.
It means I can set aside money and pre-order, or just get it when it comes time. When you are a college student, parent, kid, etc... it is hard to devote large chunks of money into these hobbies.
not to pick on this post spacificaly, but...
it's not like they sell out of minis...
say you like tau, you want to buy a tau army when they get updated. if you know 3 months in advance and it comes out in june, you drop 500 in june.. if you don't know untill june, so then you just buy it in sept... the minis arn't going to disappear, the rules arn't going to change...
the only thing i can see is if you buy say, old tau suits then get angy that new ones came out, or some such...
Grot 6 wrote:Why are you putting stock in this guy anyway? He was called out last year for this very same sort of nonsense, yet everyone turned a blind eye to it and Kroothawk put it to pen all the same...
(...)
Stop posting rumors unless you have some verification, next time.
1.) His first rumour was surprisingly correct (first one to get Dreadfleet correct)
2.) Gave him credit for his next rumours on Sororitas which turned out to be incorrect.
3.) Since then I either didn't post his rumours or posted them with a caveat.
4.) Verified rumours are not rumours anymore. If you read rumours, you have to accept that they can be false. If you read them longer, you learn to estimate which sources are more credible than others. But even rumours by other sources can be valid, that's why I usually post them (with source). One example is the early Finecast rumour by someone who has never posted rumours before (although a trusted veteran). Early rumours are prone to changes, so not for the faint of heart, but mostly entertaining or informative (like knowing that Black Templar sculpts are done for 3 years and since then waiting for a release). That's why I don't stop posting rumours even if you don't approve.
Like I said. He was already a suspect roumormonger. defend him if you want to, but bad is bad. I don't have to approve, its just the way it is.
other then that, your ok. Looking over the post, I might have to change it for looking more mean then it is really supposed to mean. I'm going to go on ahead and remove it, based on two people sayng something when that wasn't the way to take it.
Sorry for the vineger. Bottom line from me is the guy was a bad source, thats what the only point there.
Point there being he was already on thin ice, yet it is looking like his last sugersmack for being overly rambunctious was largly forgotton/ ignored.
Wow, JB, thank you for putting that together. That was extremely educational... and yeah, ghost21 was pretty asinine. ADB gains even more of my respect for his level headed responses.
Gymnogyps wrote:Wow, JB, thank you for putting that together. That was extremely educational... and yeah, ghost21 was pretty asinine. ADB gains even more of my respect for his level headed responses.
No problem. I had time to kill and I take a perverse pleasure in taking complicated things and simplifying them.
It was also a bit of fun to see Warseer again. I haven't been in there since the IG codex came out. How long ago was that?
Sigh... I was really excited about the Warhammer contingents rumor. Though the insect people did sound a bit crazy. Did ghost21 ever explain how he found out about Dreadfleet? Don't understand why he then started sprouting a bunch of junk. Guess fame makes people do stupid things, even when it is being famous on some minor web forum.
*edit* One thing to add, to the contingent rumors. Ghost threw stuff playing on some information Harry had put out in another thread and Harry then attributes things he saw to Ghosts stuff. Very much like that show where the guy claims to talk to the dead and pulls answers out of people and lets them fill in the details lending him validity.
Personally it wasn’t ADB debacle that caused me to doubt Ghost as “internet tough guy” rage happens all the time on the internet. ADB didn’t handle himself very professionally either and he let his emotions get the better of him (never feed a troll).
Ghost’s rumour of 3 legion codices was what caused me to doubt him (GW never does sub codices for non loyalist factions). I suspect he knew people were onto him which is why by that stage his CSM rumours seemed to get “bigger and better” with each rumour update.
The funny thing is that that his rumours weren’t too inaccurate. Dreadfleet happened and Sisters got a new codex (even if it was a WD one). I generally take a grain of salt with all rumour posts and if anyone ever claims that one is particularly iron clad, I only have one word to say: “Summer of Fliers”.
candy.man wrote:I generally take a grain of salt with all rumour posts and if anyone ever claims that one is particularly iron clad, I only have one word to say: “Summer of Fliers”.
To be fair, stickmonkey is about as reliable as ghost21 was.
candy.man wrote:Ghost’s rumour of 3 legion codices was what caused me to doubt him (GW never does sub codices for non loyalist factions). I suspect he knew people were onto him which is by that stage which is why his CSM rumours seemed to get “bigger and better” with each rumour update.
Really?
I think you are thinking of this guy ...
The Dark General on Warseer wrote:From what i'm still told, there are 3 FOR SURE Chaos Codexes coming out, of which 3 Legions will appear in each, and 2 more possible Codexes within the next couple of years for all to see the shelves. Probably 2 Legions Codexes this coming year (2012), and the 3rd arriving early the following year (2013), with (possible) follow up Codexes of The Lost and Damned (named something else) and a Campaign Codex (ya'll remember the Eye of Terror?) that will be largely if not entirely Daemon based...
Ghost21 was the one who said there would be 3 Choas codices: Chaos Legions, Chaos Renegades, and Deamons. The Chaos Renegades codex was just debunked thanks to Hastings .
BTW...Hastings wasn't the first to say that the codex would be Chaos vs DA...nor was BOK the first to state Chaos would be the 1st 6th edition codex.
AesSedai on Warseer Back in August of 2011 wrote:2) Chaos legions codex. Apparently, there will be rules for fielding forces from the various traitor legions. I've heard this rumour around before. He mentioned that part of the focus will be to highlight to differences between normal marines and warped chaos marines, both in the appearance of the model and in the organizational structure of the legion. If I recall correctly, he mentioned this as the first release of 6th edition. Also of note, Apparently a pitch to release traitor guard as a codex was put forward and rejected though the person pitching it put forth a very good proposal....
3) The boxed set for 6th with be Chaos versus Dark Angels.
Harry also mentioned early on that Chaos would be the first 6th edition codex as well...but I would be curious to know if AesSedai said it first.
pretre wrote:No way, ghost21 is unreliable!
Now you have a lot of thread editing to do, Kroothawk.
Actually no, because I always state the sources I quote.
And when MajorTom11 urged me two months ago to compile ghost21's numerous Tau rumours, this is what I replied (25th November):
Hi Major,
I might do it by just tsarting a new thread and you then closing this one.
To be frank, I am uncomfortable with posting the flood of ghost21 rumours. He was dead on with Dreadfleet and that was his entry in the rumour business. He then flooded Warseer with rumours about everything, some far in the future (including the Hrud Codex he believes in but seems to just be a joke test Codex for internal training purposes), the rest proven false like his detailed description of the August Sororitas release (slight chance that the miniatures are ready and he saw then, but big chance that it was either made up or fed falsly).
On Tau, some things are nobrainers and easy to invent, other things sound fishy like "similar to the Battletech mech with the ancient weapon name"
That's why I didn't start a Chaos Codex and Black Templar thread: Too far in the future, only source ghost21. I posted stickmonkey also speculative and far future rumours, but somehow I have a bad feeling with this one and would prefer to have ghost21 proven more reliable.
Anyway, I will start a new Tau thread with a certain disclaimer on salt usage. Hope that helps.
Cheers, Kroothawk.
Which I took at the time to be very indicative that Kroot does a heck of a lot more than just copy and paste! Said it before and will say it again, we should all be very grateful for all the time Kroot puts in on our behalf
I totally agree for how much effort Kroot puts in for all of us-how is he not a MOD yet? For example, the rumor MOD? I mean, he pretty much does all of that anyway, but why not let him take over all control of rumors on here, unfettered? Just my two cents, but he does a helluva job at how much he puts in-maybe he's ready for the next step up?
and then they pretty much go at it through the rest of that same page on Warseer.
And ADB finally concluded in post#357 with this:
Dead.Blue.Clown wrote:It doesn't need to be so confrontational, really. All I've said is that "it's unlikely (from my understanding of the fluff and the way IP department discusses the lore) that they'd divide the Legions and Renegades into two codices like that" and "I sincerely doubt they'll use new Horus Heresy characters in the codex", then explained why.
I'm not commenting on anything else. I'm not dishing out rumours or denying anything I may or may not have heard, because I like my career. I'm not even definitely saying they won't do those things. Just that it seems ball-achingly unlikely, because, frankly, it does.
I'm sort of confused as to why that's so hard to stomach, or why it requires ghost21 to lie about knowing me, and being in meetings where he wasn't actually present at all.
EDIT: Either way, I've said all I need to say. I've not got a mountain of interest in lingering to partake in some bizarre back-and-forth over nothing.
I'm a gentle soul most of the time but ghost21 looked like a in that exchange.
Ghost's riposte in the very next post #358 was characteristic and all in bold but fortunately not caps.
and apparently ADB couldn't refuse to pick up that gauntlet because he responds on the next page, posts #362 and 364.
and then ADB recaps on this page in posts #462 and 477 with a few familiar faces in between.
Continually posting and bumping these threads is just giving the false rumor-mongers their e-hardon. The rabid community is to blame. Don't feed the trolls
Well, not so long ago rumors were a fairly pleasant and accurate thing. Since the great GW crackdown the rumor mills have gone kind of crazy trying to scrape together bits of information.
The whole thing is quite interesting. Internet nerd drama often is.
Also if someone made up *all* rumours and yet was right about dreadfleet that is a false statement. (I always tell the truth/That was a lie)
Was there not a soritas 'release' in terms of the codex? I wonder if in a years time if/when SoB get released if they match his descriptions will we remember him?
However deliberate mis-information as opposed to rumours isn't helping anyone at all.
Ghost predicted Dreadfleet with one line, i see no ships.
First off, this is incredibly vague and could, after the fact, be seen as a hint that ships are coming, or as a denial that ships are coming.
Second, there was already rampant speculation about the release at that point and it's not like Man'o'war wasn't on the table. Between it, Blood Bowl and Quest as the main suspects, it was about 1/3 chance to get it right with nothing but a guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.
lord_blackfang wrote:Ghost predicted Dreadfleet with one line, i see no ships.
First off, this is incredibly vague and could, after the fact, be seen as a hint that ships are coming, or as a denial that ships are coming.
Second, there was already rampant speculation about the release at that point and it's not like Man'o'war wasn't on the table. Between it, Blood Bowl and Quest as the main suspects, it was about 1/3 chance to get it right with nothing but a guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.
Yes, I never trusted him back since Necrons were comming out, here is what I think
LunaHound wrote:
Fat_Little_Ripper wrote:So how is Hastings track record when it comes to rumors? More reliable than StickMonkey or Ghost I take it?
Hasting is accurate, accurate enough for us to know he is telling the truth.
Ghost21 on the other hands speculates the same way those online "psychic hotline" works.
Here watch this, i'll do the same:
Tau will get new type of experimental suit, with new type of weaponry. And there will be hybrid kit.
They'll get 2-4 new characters, with 2 new sculpts for special character ( wow i saw them they are beautiful )
etc etc
And throw in a few for good measuers
"Hasting is correct, my source also tells me the same"
See this type of sentence is incredible annoying. It doubles to piggy back someone that is credible,
yet if it does turn out correct, it adds to HIS OWN credibility.
If it does turn out wrong, no one can fault him, because after all, Hasting would be wrong as well.
This post by SoD on Warseer seems pertinent and quite well written
If anything, we (as in the 'rumour audience') are the problem - and I include myself in that.
When did it become so important to know everything about an upcoming release before it is actually released? I can understand the temptation but it reminds me of rooting around in your parents' cupboard as a kid in the lead up to Christmas in the hope of discovering your presents. There is an initial burst of excitement but when the big day comes you're left with a feeling of emptiness because there's no big surprise. This is exactly what happened with the 4th ed Eldar 'dex - we knew pretty much everything a whole month before the release.
Perhaps we've become spoilt. I think this is evident in some of the posts I have seen with some people even talking of quitting the hobby because the latest rumour suggests that their army of choice isn't coming out for another two years. Get a grip people.
It's only natural to want to know if your favourite army is on the horizon but is there really any need to know every minute detail before you get the codex in your hands? I applaud GW for trying to remain so tight lipped in recent years.
So I can't really complain too much if it has become incredibly difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff due to the deluge of rumours. Our furious demand has created this environment and if it has become a circus due to the number of contradictory rumours flying around then I think that is a lesson for us all.
That seems about half right. I want to know what's coming up so I know what to save for, what to look forward to, and so on. We don't like being kept in the dark, but we don't necessarily need the full codex leak ahead of time either. We may or may not want to know exactly what presents are in that closet, but at the very least we want to know that there ARE presents in that closet.
It's really not. If he needs that surprise to make a new army fun, that's his problem.
I've bolded the parts you guys seem to have missed.
Nowhere did he say that army (or general) releases should be shrouded in mystery and kept under wraps until the very day of release. What he did say was that having every single detail leaked before the release date spolis it for many people and I'll include myself in that. Personally I stayed about as far away as I could from the 100 page+ Necron codex thread a few months back. People were already coming up with builds and tactics before the Codex had hit the shelves (not to mentioned the fluff change wars that accompianied it). Whilst thats fun and exciting for some, it ruins it for others.
So, while I appreciate SoD's perspective, it should be clearly stated that (s)he by no means speaks for everyone.
Absolutely, no one claimed however that he was speaking for everyone, it was just a well written albeit single perspective.
Others disagree, no problem there but claiming he said one thing when he clearly didnt is misleading.
I've never heard of this Ghost 21 before because I tend to skim most rumour threads, but he sounds like a complete troll.
His exchange with that BL author was a piece or particularly bizarre and aggressive nonsense, borderline psychotic if you ask me. He's probably a child, he sure writes and behaves like one, craving for attention.
If he's a troll, he's a very dedicated one. More than anyone else who claims to be providing rumors, he spends a significant time on forums, responding. Maybe that's just him getting his jollies, but it seems like a lot more work than even the people who've produced fake books.
Going back two pages, I have to admit the first time I read Ghost21's quote about "making it up" I didn't take that as an admission, I really think he is just tired of defending himself. I think he does hear rumors, but I think he inserts his own thoughts and rationals on them. Even then I don't think its all that credible.
-Loki- wrote:To be fair, stickmonkey is about as reliable as ghost21 was.
To be fair, he was the first to predict 6th edition for 2012, the first to predict a Tyranid 2nd wave for late 2011 (a year in advance), Immortals to get bigger and move to standard, several flyers about to be released etc. . So personally I trust him giving early rumours that can change until release.
Lormax wrote:Between the leaked 6th edition PDF, and now this, someone is really laughing it up behind his/her monitor.
This kinda thing is exactly why I don't pay attention to the rumor threads. It'll all come out/get released/happen when it happens.
Continually posting and bumping these threads is just giving the false rumor-mongers their e-hardon. The rabid community is to blame. Don't feed the trolls
Actually, at least the first two are correct.
BTW here another post by ghost21:
ghost21 wrote:
Hokiecow wrote:It doesn't sounds like a confession, but more as "I'm tired of being picked on, I'm leaving!"
Kroothawk wrote:
Actually, at least the first two are correct.
3rd is too, in a way. If BoW is to be believed it is a GW work piece and at one point was in consideration for 6E. It was just discarded in favor of another set.
-Loki- wrote:To be fair, stickmonkey is about as reliable as ghost21 was.
To be fair, he was the first to predict 6th edition for 2012, the first to predict a Tyranid 2nd wave for late 2011 (a year in advance), Immortals to get bigger and move to standard, several flyers about to be released etc. . So personally I trust him giving early rumours that can change until release.
To be fair, I think most of us figured out the edition release pattern around 2008 at the latest Tyranid 2nd wave in late 2011 didn't happen, so I don't know what you're getting at there. Neither did any flyers apart from the Razorwing, hardly a surprise since it's a Codex unit. Stickmonkey predicted a whole lot of other flyers, none of which are out yet.
I'll give you Immortals, although again a commonly used elite unit moving to Troops is hardly unprecedented (Dire Avengers, Cult CSM, Wyches) and I think it was often mentioned in wishlist treads over the past decade.
Now, I don't think stickmonkey was necessarily intentionally dishonest like ghost was, but his predictions are really not any better than any veteran's informed guesses.
Kroothawk wrote:
BTW here another post by ghost21:
ghost21 wrote:
Hokiecow wrote:It doesn't sounds like a confession, but more as "I'm tired of being picked on, I'm leaving!"
n thats exactly how i meant it,
The problem is however that now
a ) Any other rumours he writes are going to be extremely suspect, more so because he tried to call Dead Blue Clown out about actually being ADB (perhaps as it's unusual for a BL writer to post on those forums) and his bluff was called.
b ) The way he responded to it. Extremely childish, and as Howard A Treesong pointed out, more than a little cause of concern.
terranarc wrote:Wait, people actually believed this guy?
People hear what they want to hear.
When a Tau player hears a snippet of Tau rumours, they'll cling onto them for example. Particularly when Games Workshop isn't around to provide actual information.
It's fairly clear (and even from the responses on this thread) that people liked hearing something and having something to discuss, even if it's gak.
--------
I'm not surprised that Ghost was making them up. Lunahound's post (see below) demonstrated how easy it is to make vague yet credible rumours and Ghost's seemed exactly like that. Combine that with their regularity, his claims of sources (see 'discussion' with ABD, who should gain much respect from many), their inaccuracy and contradiction of absolutely-correct rumours (e.g. disagreeing with Yak on the Necrons) and the grammar he expressed (so, a kid knows what GW have up their sleeves?) and it would always be difficult to believe his claims.
His 'confession', seemed just that, a confession, rather than truly admitting he made them up. His latest post strikes me as an excuse and little more. Ultimately, whether he made them up or not (and I see no reason to believe they were not made up), they couldn't really be believed.
Now he's gone, all the better for it IMHO.
LunaHound wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:Ghost predicted Dreadfleet with one line, i see no ships.
First off, this is incredibly vague and could, after the fact, be seen as a hint that ships are coming, or as a denial that ships are coming.
Second, there was already rampant speculation about the release at that point and it's not like Man'o'war wasn't on the table. Between it, Blood Bowl and Quest as the main suspects, it was about 1/3 chance to get it right with nothing but a guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.
Yes, I never trusted him back since Necrons were comming out, here is what I think
LunaHound wrote:
Fat_Little_Ripper wrote:So how is Hastings track record when it comes to rumors? More reliable than StickMonkey or Ghost I take it?
Hasting is accurate, accurate enough for us to know he is telling the truth.
Ghost21 on the other hands speculates the same way those online "psychic hotline" works.
Here watch this, i'll do the same:
Tau will get new type of experimental suit, with new type of weaponry. And there will be hybrid kit.
They'll get 2-4 new characters, with 2 new sculpts for special character ( wow i saw them they are beautiful )
etc etc
And throw in a few for good measuers
"Hasting is correct, my source also tells me the same"
See this type of sentence is incredible annoying. It doubles to piggy back someone that is credible,
yet if it does turn out correct, it adds to HIS OWN credibility.
If it does turn out wrong, no one can fault him, because after all, Hasting would be wrong as well.
-Loki- wrote:To be fair, stickmonkey is about as reliable as ghost21 was.
To be fair, he was the first to predict 6th edition for 2012, the first to predict a Tyranid 2nd wave for late 2011 (a year in advance), Immortals to get bigger and move to standard, several flyers about to be released etc. . So personally I trust him giving early rumours that can change until release.
To be fair, I think most of us figured out the edition release pattern around 2008 at the latest Tyranid 2nd wave in late 2011 didn't happen, so I don't know what you're getting at there. Neither did any flyers apart from the Razorwing, hardly a surprise since it's a Codex unit. Stickmonkey predicted a whole lot of other flyers, none of which are out yet.
I'll give you Immortals, although again a commonly used elite unit moving to Troops is hardly unprecedented (Dire Avengers, Cult CSM, Wyches) and I think it was often mentioned in wishlist treads over the past decade.
Now, I don't think stickmonkey was necessarily intentionally dishonest like ghost was, but his predictions are really not any better than any veteran's informed guesses.
To be fair while it's true that alot of what he has put forth could well be guessed at does not by virtue mean he doesn't have access to info and while the Tyranid 2nd wave didn't come late 2011 according to posts by credible rumourmongers there is one coming very soon which leads into what ive noticed when it comes to stickmonkey. He is overly generous with what he predicts will come out over a period of time but if you go back and read some of his old rumours his release order has been very accurate quite a long ways in advance so long as you basically double the timeframe if he says X, Y, Z will release in the next 6 months they probably will in that order but it will take 12 months.
The only other mark against him is the whole summer of flyers thing which again to be fair considering every codex from 5th ed IG has included a new "flyer" unit entry and IIRC he was talking about it before BA and the Stormraven came about. It's entirely possible that at one point there was a "summer of flyers" planned but they instead just decided to include them in the codex updates. Or perhaps that was never the intention as It's come to be my understanding that due to the nature of the Large Flight Stand being the type of component packaged into multiple boxed sets that is not cast as part of the sprue a considerable number of plastic kits need to use the component to justify the component being used in the first place. It's quite possible that Stickmonkey who based on the nature and timing of the info he has been accurate about if he does have "real" info it seems to be on the early production end and mistaking a bunch of flyers for different armies coming through not because they were all being released soon but perhaps "yeah we will definatly produce a bunch of unit rules/flyer kits for the flying stands" from the design isn't sufficient for the GW bean counters and that a minimum number of kits that would utilize the stand would need to be taken to the "point of no return" in terms of stages of production to satisfy said bean counters signing off on the flight stand in the first place and so these "flyer" models all being pushed through could easily be interpreted by someone not 100% in the know as a coming expansion/single release.
I hope you're not going to be passing along any more of his rumors, Kroot, even taken with salt... you're for the most part my filter, so I'm glad you've been keeping an eye on this!
Someone please inform me when it is time to grab the pitch forks and take Ghost21 to the gallows.
Blood for the blood god and all.
Between you and me lethal injection is a more human way to do it these days.
In truth this maybe difficult if Ghost21 is in fact a ghost and it is to my knowledge that they are free of the trappings of the mortal realm and so probably immune to both a hanging and lethal injection!
With this in mind we will instead need someone to banish him so on that note does anyone know the number of Keanu Reeves?
Hmmm... Hypothetically what would Ghost's job be if he was actually at a BL meeting and not an author/ editor???
I have hardly read anything Ghost posted generally, but very little about how and where he finds out his stuff (hypothetically for the sake of discussion saying it was mostly true). Anyone have any ideas where in GW he works (presuming he does)?
A lot of presumption in there, but perhaps someone knows something he's said? Feel free to pm me if this is not suitable for public discussion.
After the random fantasy armylists thing he posted that nobody else had heard of I switched off. I posted at the time that this was exactly the sort of thing that would identify who the leak was. But perhaps in hindsight you can't fire people who don't work for you...?
I find it pays to know more about people (privately) if you feel the need to spend time and energy trusting them.
Darkseid wrote:lol, now he is playing the I-only-said-it-becaus-you-picked-on-me Card.
I wouldn't exactly call it "playing a card" when a number of people interpreted it that way to begin with. Simply put the internet has a 80% sarcasm filter.
Just Dave wrote:
I'm not surprised that Ghost was making them up. Lunahound's post (see below) demonstrated how easy it is to make vague yet credible rumours and Ghost's seemed exactly like that. Combine that with their regularity, his claims of sources (see 'discussion' with ABD, who should gain much respect from many), their inaccuracy and contradiction of absolutely-correct rumours (e.g. disagreeing with Yak on the Necrons) and the grammar he expressed (so, a kid knows what GW have up their sleeves?) and it would always be difficult to believe his claims.
His 'confession', seemed just that, a confession, rather than truly admitting he made them up. His latest post strikes me as an excuse and little more. Ultimately, whether he made them up or not (and I see no reason to believe they were not made up), they couldn't really be believed.
Now he's gone, all the better for it IMHO.
The problem with relying on Lunahound's example of vagueness is that there is no distinguishing between that type of false rumors, and real rumors that are just generally vague. Its like saying is Ochre a brownish-yellow or a yellowish-brown?-The distinction is only in how its made.
Contectually its hard to take it as a confession. You read all his posts leading up to that one and it is more the voice of some one who is frustrated with being attacked, then it is someone who is wrong and feeling threatend by discovery.
I don't believe his rumors, but I believe he believes his rumors.
ghost21 wrote:but how would i paint the little ships?
Ghost21 wrote:
Da'Mass wrote:In my efforts to suggest unlikely games that show my fine GW vintage I say..
Adeptus Titanicus!
i loved that game ... but no
Ghost21 wrote:exclude all sifi and leave only fantasy.....
ghost21 wrote:
Coff Coff Mordheim Coff Coff?
cough no cough
(i wish it was )
ghost21 wrote:its not WHQ
ghost21 wrote:its okay im sure that the its fantasy but not x or y means its something totally unexpected cough cough ..... ::shifty::
He correctly predicted the date (September), the style (Boxed Game), the genre (Warhammer Fantasy), and theme (Naval). It could be that Ghost was regurgitating old, outdated/debunked rumors from prior years...but I am not really sure how Ghost found out about this one as Dreadfleet (and the whole September special box set) came out of left field...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote:I hope you're not going to be passing along any more of his rumors, Kroot, even taken with salt... you're for the most part my filter, so I'm glad you've been keeping an eye on this!
I'm sure he has been put on most of the rumor compilors' "ignore list"
He correctly predicted the date (September), the style (Boxed Game), the genre (Warhammer Fantasy), and theme (Naval). It could be that Ghost was regurgitating old, outdated/debunked rumors from prior years...but I am not really sure how Ghost found out about this one as Dreadfleet (and the whole September special box set) came out of left field...
Only based on the fact that Space Hulk was a) the previous year, b) a massive success and c) GW like to repeat that for even LFL sales... Luck played a part on this one, IMHO. There's only so many oop 'Specialist' games that lurk within the GW back-catalogue, and following a 40k 'mystery box' with a another 40k mystery box doesn't seem right. I personally have always severely doubted the truth of any of his rumours.
Case in point, he claimed on Warseer that Forge World had already finished Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaurs and K'daai (and that he had seen the models) when FW themselves (and individual designers at Games Days etc) repeatedly said that they hadn't even started them yet... Incedentally I posted as much at the time and was shouted down.
Funny that, I was told by Keith Robertson at games day that Steve Whitehead had already started the BC but had to stop to work on the monstrous arcana stuff???
I forget whether he said already finished or part way through, but I'm 100% certain they are at least part done sitting somewhere.
Goliath wrote:The thing that really annoys me about this is the fact that he makes up these rumours, and then when they turn out to not be true, GW takes flak for not following the rumour mill, as if they've declared that they're doing tau in september, and then when they don't do tau in september they've actually been decieving us, rather than it being the fault of the person who supplied dodgy rumours.
People who know me know I'm not a GW basher, but I have a hard time mustering a lot of sympathy for GW in this regard and others. You wanna be a public-owned multinational, you gotta grow a thick skin. So let's not throw them any pity parties.
aka_mythos wrote:If he's a troll, he's a very dedicated one. More than anyone else who claims to be providing rumors, he spends a significant time on forums, responding. Maybe that's just him getting his jollies, but it seems like a lot more work than even the people who've produced fake books.
Going back two pages, I have to admit the first time I read Ghost21's quote about "making it up" I didn't take that as an admission, I really think he is just tired of defending himself. I think he does hear rumors, but I think he inserts his own thoughts and rationals on them. Even then I don't think its all that credible.
I tend to agree. It didn't help that he may have been pretending to be a GW employee, etc. It would explain a lot if he was receiving some vague info second- or third-hand and was filling in the rest himself.
Personally, if I had a good source at GW and learned things, I'd never share it on forums, etc. And not just out of respect for my source, but because I have zero interest in dealing with pics of giant grains of salt and cries of being a "false rumormonger" from people who just don't like what I'm saying, even if it's 100% accurate. Heck, I don't even pretend to understand the whole "true rumor" and "false rumor" thing...I thought the whole point of a rumor was that it sits between truth and falsehood. So why can't people let it lie there? *shrug*
lord_blackfang wrote:And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.
Sometimes, though, those are the people who will register a new account just to drop rumors, such as when a new poster made references to Grey Knights getting an exo-suit of a sort long before anyone started talking about it. It's when a poster's track record become suspect but people continue to listen to them that criticism is warranted.
I tend to agree. It didn't help that he may have been pretending to be a GW employee, etc. It would explain a lot if he was receiving some vague info second- or third-hand and was filling in the rest himself.
There's no may about it - reading that thread with him and ADB just makes him (or her, lets face it) sound... unstable! 'I'm in those meetings' 'Dude, you're not' 'I totally am' 'Most of the people in those meetings are friends of mine and were at my wedding. Why are you lieing about this?'
I mean, each to their own... but pretending to be an employee and then continuing the lie when an actual person who knows what they're talking about calls you on it? hhmm....
UltraPrime wrote:Space Hulk was 2009, not 2010.
My bad I should have said the previous 'mystery box' - in any case my point is still valid.
Grimstonefire wrote:@johnny
Funny that, I was told by Keith Robertson at games day that Steve Whitehead had already started the BC but had to stop to work on the monstrous arcana stuff???
I forget whether he said already finished or part way through, but I'm 100% certain they are at least part done sitting somewhere.
I asked him at Games Day as well, Steve said something along the lines of 'yeah, just a rough armature'... in any case the FW guys are very open about that sort of thing - at the time ghost was claiming to have seen these models FW had already shown the entire range at their Open Day, including the Bale Taurus that has only recently been released.
Kroothawk wrote:
BTW here another post by ghost21:
ghost21 wrote:
Hokiecow wrote:It doesn't sounds like a confession, but more as "I'm tired of being picked on, I'm leaving!"
n thats exactly how i meant it,
Damage has been done IMHO. Because this post now means he's realy childish at best, a lier at worst.
The guy should just do him self a favour and get out of the rumour mill business. He can still post and stuff what ever, but regardless of if he was lieing or not, he doesn't have a thick enough skin to be cut out for this.
alphaomega wrote:It could be that he was a Tool Maker/Designer for GW seeing as they hired a few apprentices March last year.
It could well be that he saw the manufacturing of the sprues and maybe "invented" his rumours from there.
See I was thinking along the same lines myself, so in the event what he said about the BL meeting(s) was actually true it would make no sense whatsoever for a tool/mould maker to be in that sort of meeting anyway? Or for him to expect to be informed of the discussions of such meetings.
Which begs the question of why he would want to stick firmly to saying he was there specifically, after he was challenged? It certainly does seem strange.
candy.man wrote:Ghost’s rumour of 3 legion codices was what caused me to doubt him (GW never does sub codices for non loyalist factions).
Really?
I'd like to introduce you to Codex: Craftworld Eldar, which was (when in print) a sub-codex for Codex: Eldar, allowing you to play as one of four (IIRC) Craftworlds.
I'd also like to introduce you to Codex: Armageddon, and Codex: Eye of Terror - while technically campaign supplements, each also included at least ne sub-list for a non-loyalist faction (Kult of Speed in C:Armageddon, and Ulthwe Strike Force and The Lost and the Damnded in Codex: EoT).
candy.man wrote:I generally take a grain of salt with all rumour posts and if anyone ever claims that one is particularly iron clad, I only have one word to say: “Summer of Fliers”.
To which I only have one thing to say - three words...
candy.man wrote:I generally take a grain of salt with all rumour posts and if anyone ever claims that one is particularly iron clad, I only have one word to say: “Summer of Fliers”.
To which I only have one thing to say - three words...
Awesome! Thank you, Dysartes, for bringing facts to the table.
lord_blackfang wrote:To be fair, I think most of us figured out the edition release pattern around 2008 at the latest Tyranid 2nd wave in late 2011 didn't happen, so I don't know what you're getting at there. Neither did any flyers apart from the Razorwing, hardly a surprise since it's a Codex unit. Stickmonkey predicted a whole lot of other flyers, none of which are out yet.
He posted before Storm Raven was out. We know that the DE bomber was delayed, we will see the Harpy (probably delayed due to lawsuit not begun when stickmonkey posted) and Necron flyer(s) in 4 weeks, more ready but unreleased. We will possibly see the flyer rules in 6th edition.
Here his Necron rumours one year in advance of the release:
Necrons(September 2010) - All Immortal based models being redone. Because Destroyers, Lords, etc. were supposedly based on the immortal "chassis" and that has been redone "bigger", its a cascade effect. However, skimmer body base not expect to change. correct
- Immortals possible move to Troops choice. correct
- New Elite options correct
- Pariahs no longer 0-1 correct-ish, if you consider the other cc elite
- Additional C'Tan correct-ish
- plastic Tomb Spyder box to make TS or variant. correct, see next month
- New fast attack MC incorrect, but new HS MS
- Pylon may make codex as heavy option wrong
I think that's not bad. 4 months later he dropped the two incorrect rumours, predited the release for Halloween and made some other predictions, some correct some not.
Grimstonefire wrote:Hmmm... Hypothetically what would Ghost's job be if he was actually at a BL meeting and not an author/ editor???
He wasn't, as ADB knows all persons in the meeting personally. And ghost21 can't even speak or write English properly (I usually edited his posts to make them readable).
The Immortal rumor strikes me as a guess. That rumor pointed to 40mm base immortals, and this did not happen. He also said destroyers would get updated to match, the did not. Also... immortals did not get bigger! The lords were not redone, the destroyers were not redone, none of it happened.
Immortals "possible" move to troops? 100% guesswork/logical estimation.
New Elite options. Duh. There were new options in every section. There always are.
Pariahs no longer 0-1, incorrect. Pariahs removed completely.
Additional C'tan, incorrect. C'tan removed entirely and replaced with "build your own shard"
Plastic tomb spyder box: This one was right, but honestly i would file it as wrong. Why? He predicted a box for the tomb spyder and variant. We are getting a box for 3 tomb spyders and wraiths, not some new unknown variant.
New fast attack MC: 100% false.
Pylon may make codex as a heavy weapon: 100% false
So in conclusion, I give him credit for zero of his necron rumors. They are all false or only extremely vaguely correct.
Hey Kroot, I mean absolutely no offense to you but most of those don't seem worth mentioning to me.
Predicting that a Codex unit that doesn't have a model yet will get one is obvious has zero meaning unless you can state the exact month or have details about the sculpt itself.
Of the Necron stuff, the plastic Tomb Spyder and the move of Immortals to Troops are the only rumours that turned out true and aren't uselessly vague. "New Elite options" is not a rumour, it's bleeding obvious. I'll bet you the next Codex to come out is going to have new Elite options, and I have no idea what the Codex is
Again, not saying he's lying, but his rumours are so vague and inaccurate that they are not at all useful. Anyone who can spot a pattern could do as well by guessing.
ph34r wrote: They are all false or only extremely vaguely correct.
That's how the future prediction game works...
I predict that Dark Angels will have several new plastic kits, some old minis converted to finecast, a new elite unit and army-wide special rules that will blow your mind.
(Didn't Luna do this a couple pages back already?)
Fun fact. Today, a new poster registered on Warseer and posted these rumours supporting ghost21 and contradicting hastings:
First time poster, although been reading The Dude's two threads on this with interest for a while, very good work sir.
The little info I have been able to gleen from my sources with GW state:
*There will only be one Codex and it will be Codex: Traitor Legions (or something to that affect) and that there will be a separate codex for renegade space marines. Whether this will just be a re-naming of the current codex for now, a White Dwarf update or what I can't say.
*The release date for the Codex is the end of the year, so we're talking November December time.
*It will NOT be the first post 6th ed codex to be released and Chaos will NOT be in the 6th ed equivilent of Black Reach. Currently that is looking like being Necrons and Space Marines although no comfirmation of this as yet.
Also I've been told that Codex: Necrons and Codex: Grey Knights were both written with 6th ed in mind.
And finally, although not related to any CSM codex there is a rumour that preferred enemy *may* get extended to include shooting attacks.
He just sounds like someone who has got used to revelling in the attention and has to keep feeding that. Some info about Dreadfleet once wasn't enough.
I've seen much worse than this as a Doctor Who fan. Fandom has been burned a few times by people claiming to have copies of old missing episodes (many from the 60s have been destroyed and are permanently missing from TV archives) and have gone as far as mocking up film cans to take photos. If you people think some gamers are upset because a rumour about next year's space marines was cooked up, how do you think groups of fans feel when someone has hoaxes them into thinking they are sitting on material for their facourite TV programme unseen for decades? Upset doesn't describe it.
Hmmm...I'm going to share my opinion. "What!?" You exclaim, "But, sir, the internet is not for the sharing of opinions, but for the sharing of facts!" I know, I know, but I'm going to do it anyway.
Over on warseer ghost21 just posted that the tone in which he meant his confession was one of, "Well, I'm tired of being called a liar so I'm leaving."
Now, I know that he has a loyal following defending him over on warseer, but I think there are several points that people should think over.
DISCLAIMER: I am about to try logic. Since this is the internet there is a good chance that, despite how well reasoned these points are, someone will insist that the extreme outlying probability is the only one that could possibly be true. Tough, you're all wrong and I'm right.
1. Ghost can't speak English. He has the worst grammar, spelling, punctuation, and word use of almost anyone I have ever seen. The almost is because I have a 6-year-old autistic brother that is worse, but just barely. This indicates that there is no way he can be anywhere near the top of the corporate ladder, or even in games development. See, to have a job that requires reading and writing you have to be able to read and write. I assume Ghost can read, but he has proven that he can't write.
2. Ghost claimed to be in BL meetings that ADB called him on. Ghost wasn't there; therefore, the information he claimed to have could not have been had by him. I am more inclined to believe an author that goes by his real name on an anonymous forum than a proven liar.
3. Ghost's rumors haven't proven to be true. See Kroothawk's summary of his Necron rumours.
In total, I think it is safe to say that no matter how Ghost meant his little tantrum the rumor community would be better off without him.
Darthslowe wrote:Over on warseer ghost21 just posted that the tone in which he meant his confession was one of, "Well, I'm tired of being called a liar so I'm leaving."
Now, I know that he has a loyal following defending him over on warseer, but I think there are several points that people should think over.
THey weren't defending him as in saying he's not lying. They're saying don't turn ourselves into a lynchmob. Whether he made them up or not, just accept the fact that he isn't posting rumours anymore (for good or ill) and move on. It's not worth getting riled up and starting a hate campaign against him, which some posters there were basically trying to do.
ph34r wrote:The Immortal rumor strikes me as a guess. That rumor pointed to 40mm base immortals, and this did not happen. He also said destroyers would get updated to match, the did not. Also... immortals did not get bigger! The lords were not redone, the destroyers were not redone, none of it happened.
Immortals "possible" move to troops? 100% guesswork/logical estimation.
New Elite options. Duh. There were new options in every section. There always are.
Pariahs no longer 0-1, incorrect. Pariahs removed completely.
Additional C'tan, incorrect. C'tan removed entirely and replaced with "build your own shard"
Plastic tomb spyder box: This one was right, but honestly i would file it as wrong. Why? He predicted a box for the tomb spyder and variant. We are getting a box for 3 tomb spyders and wraiths, not some new unknown variant.
New fast attack MC: 100% false.
Pylon may make codex as a heavy weapon: 100% false
So in conclusion, I give him credit for zero of his necron rumors. They are all false or only extremely vaguely correct.
Even a blind man can land a hit in the game of wack a mole when tried enough times, as accurate as someone's rumor record.
The ghost21 dude come off as a teenager with a slight disorder of some sorts. I guess he's in it for the attention fix he gets from the rumour cravers.
gorgon wrote:
I tend to agree. It didn't help that he may have been pretending to be a GW employee, etc. It would explain a lot if he was receiving some vague info second- or third-hand and was filling in the rest himself.
I don't think he's necessarily lying about it. I just think whatever his position at GW is, it might not be a significant one.
Darthslowe wrote:...
DISCLAIMER: I am about to try logic. Since this is the internet there is a good chance that, despite how well reasoned these points are, someone will insist that the extreme outlying probability is the only one that could possibly be true. Tough, you're all wrong and I'm right.
1. Ghost can't speak English. He has the worst grammar, spelling, punctuation, and word use of almost anyone I have ever seen. The almost is because I have a 6-year-old autistic brother that is worse, but just barely. This indicates that there is no way he can be anywhere near the top of the corporate ladder, or even in games development. See, to have a job that requires reading and writing you have to be able to read and write. I assume Ghost can read, but he has proven that he can't write.
2. Ghost claimed to be in BL meetings that ADB called him on. Ghost wasn't there; therefore, the information he claimed to have could not have been had by him. I am more inclined to believe an author that goes by his real name on an anonymous forum than a proven liar.
3. Ghost's rumors haven't proven to be true. See Kroothawk's summary of his Necron rumours.
In total, I think it is safe to say that no matter how Ghost meant his little tantrum the rumor community would be better off without him.
My theory he's the Janitor.
I think its funny you refrence Kroothawk because here's what he said...
Kroothawk wrote:Here his Necron rumours one year in advance of the release:
Necrons(September 2010) - All Immortal based models being redone. Because Destroyers, Lords, etc. were supposedly based on the immortal "chassis" and that has been redone "bigger", its a cascade effect. However, skimmer body base not expect to change. correct
- Immortals possible move to Troops choice. correct
- New Elite options correct
- Pariahs no longer 0-1 correct-ish, if you consider the other cc elite
- Additional C'Tan correct-ish
- plastic Tomb Spyder box to make TS or variant. correct, see next month
- New fast attack MC incorrect, but new HS MS
- Pylon may make codex as heavy option wrong
I think that's not bad. 4 months later he dropped the two incorrect rumours, predited the release for Halloween and made some other predictions, some correct some not.
Are his rumors fuzzy?-Yes, they didn't turn out exactly how they said they would, but he's always been insistent that what he hears or sees is rather early on. Is that an excuse or is it an explanation?-I don't know. Even if he's making this up, I think its close enough to what's happened to take note, to be sceptical, and to have fun discussing it.
Why would someone make up rumors for a company they are not employed by? Seriously, if people would direct this kind of energy at something more constructive, we may actually solve some of the problems of the world..LOL.
).
in that exchange.
