COLOSSALS!
Warjacks on Huge bases. Rules are just like jacks– in battlegroup, uses focus, makes power attacks, and so on.
Giant open fists, shoulder-/back-mounted guns
Only Khador and Cygnar models shown, but art for everything
Examples by faction:
Khador (“Conquest”)
Cygnar (“Stormwall”)
Cryx (“Kraken” – tentacles instead of legs)
Menoth (“Judicator” – rockets and flamethrowers)
Trib (“Hyperion”)
Merc (“Galleon” – right arm is a giant trident)
Two new power attacks
Left and right damage grid
Superstructure system
Models are resin/metal hybrids
Coming July 2012 (presumably with the next book)
10:23am
Video is done – panel starting
Colossals
Khador colossal model is on-hand and apparently eliciting oohs and ahhs
Will Schick confirms that the models are metal/resin hybrids
All Wrath models will be out before the next book hits (so we can expect the second plastic jack kits to hit in May/June), but some Domination models will take a bit longer
A question is raised about the points of a Colossal. The answer is, “You could play mangled metal with these.” They’re about 18-20pts.
All colossals are FA: 2
Hordes will have a Colossal equivalent
Colossals have two new power attacks and modify old ones:
Thresher
Slam that doesn’t require movement
They get extra distance on throws
Colossals can’t trample mediums
All Colossals have reach built-in
Systems are split across the left and right grids, but it’s all one system; you need to disable a system on both sides to take it out.
No colossal arc nodes
Names given for other three colossals (will edit above):
Hyperion (Trib)
Judicator (Menoth)
Stormwall (Cygnar)
No MSRP has yet been set for the Colossals
On sale at Lock & Load
Automatically Appended Next Post: Troll teaser:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Khador Scale shot:
I love these things. I don't even like warjacks and I love these things. They're so much better proportioned then the warjacks, it's like they finally figured out that tiny legs are stupid.
I'll agree. These are one of the first Warmachine models that I really like. Probably not enough to get into the game but it's a step in the right direction
They look nice and definitely add to the visual effect of the game. From the videos, they look to be about half way between the size/bulk of a dreadknight and a warhound titan. I'm curious (being a GW playing but not buying currently cynic) about their eventual price point.
I'll probably end up with the Menoth one at some point even if it never sees the field of battle. I might have a hard time paying 18 points for one when I can get 3 crusaders for the same points.
Privateer Press announces War Room. An iOS and Android app for WARMACHINE and HORDES. http://goo.gl/DChWW
War Room seems to be iBodger, all of your stat cards, the ability to mark on them to track statuses in game, as well as a turn counter. The free version of the app contains just the starter information, but full faction decks are available for 6.99 USD
Also.. aren't the colossus a bit small? I know they can't make the models that big but in the background they are enormous.
In the video they mention that the original colossi were HUGE, and meant as a giant siege engine to take down cities.
These colossi that we're getting in the summer are mobile weapons platforms. So they're big, they can probably take down a city, but they're not these huge lumbering behemoths that the old fluff describes. These are new and improved.
Also: Official press release just went:
Privateer Press.com wrote:BELLEVUE, WA, February 3, 2012 – Privateer Press is pleased to announce the next expansion book for its award-winning WARMACHINE tabletop miniatures game, WARMACHINE: Colossals, which will release worldwide July 2012.
The new book introduces colossals to the tabletop—finely detailed super-heavy warjacks on 120 mm bases. When asked about these unprecedented new models, Privateer Press Director of Business Development William Shick said, WARMACHINE: Colossalsembody the next big step for WARMACHINE and Privateer Press. Colossals are the culmination of everything we’ve learned over the last ten years of making miniatures and represent a new pinnacle of WARMACHINE models. Not only are these models loaded with stunning detail, they tower over other models on the tabletop. What’s more, they open up a whole new range of tactics and strategies for WARMACHINE players, making for an even more exciting tabletop experience.”
In addition to one of these all-new colossals for every faction, WARMACHINE: Colossals features new warcasters representing the third incarnations of some of the Iron Kingdoms’ most iconic characters, plus fully compiled and updated Unbound rules, providing enhanced gameplay opportunities for large-scale games of 150 points or more.
For more information about WARMACHINE: Colossals, including a product announcement video, visit www.privateerpress.com/warmachine.
So not only are we getting big warjacks, but we're also getting lvl3 versions of some of our casters. I believe there was a rumor about a 3Vlad somewhere out on the interwebs.
On one hand, I've got to admit, they're pretty awesome and, assuming solid rules, waay more tempting than the Battle Engines (which were a mixed bag, with some seriously cool ones, and some serious misses.
On the other hand, it seems like they're stomping all over their existing fluff.
Specifically
the Behemoth is one-of-a-kind because it was too impractical to make more, so why is this giant thing here?
I thought it was along the same lines for the Thunderhead being unique.
Mulg is the biggest troll ever, etc. So what happened? A bigger one popped up?
Also, since when do Mercs have the resources for that craziness?
Just sayin', I'm having trouble figuring out how it will work in the setting.
There are already too many models that run off of focus, and not enough decent jack support to alleviate this. We don't need more models that drain focus per turn.
Though I'm sure the Hordes versions will be better and generate their own fury, which the fury management pieces will take care of.
Wow! I'm not all that interested in the Battle Engines, but I can definately see myself shelling out the money for at least the Cryxian Colossal!
Aaaaand probably the Cygnar one as well!
And the Khador one, and the Ret one looks cool... so does the Merc one, and the Protectorate's ain't half bad either.
Crap.
Also: The way PP works, it'll be cool to see that the Colossi won't be game-breaking, must-have items that are super competitive, much like the Battle Engines. They'll also probably be great points-padding to get to Unbound games.
I'm not happy to see PP produce all these really big, expensive models. We have battle engines, colossals, and I'm willing to bet the new double epic casters will be on these huge bases as well.
spiralingcadaver wrote:I'm not sure what to think about them.
On one hand, I've got to admit, they're pretty awesome and, assuming solid rules, waay more tempting than the Battle Engines (which were a mixed bag, with some seriously cool ones, and some serious misses.
On the other hand, it seems like they're stomping all over their existing fluff.
Specifically
the Behemoth is one-of-a-kind because it was too impractical to make more, so why is this giant thing here?
I thought it was along the same lines for the Thunderhead being unique.
Mulg is the biggest troll ever, etc. So what happened? A bigger one popped up?
Also, since when do Mercs have the resources for that craziness?
Just sayin', I'm having trouble figuring out how it will work in the setting.
That's one of the primary problems with having active fluff in a game of this kind. The evolving nature of an expanding miniatures game makes almost any claim of a unique trait (such as size or advancement) destined to be invalidated.
On the other hand, it seems like they're stomping all over their existing fluff.
Specifically
the Behemoth is one-of-a-kind because it was too impractical to make more, so why is this giant thing here?
I thought it was along the same lines for the Thunderhead being unique.
Remember that the storyline in Warmachine actively progresses. The Iron Kingdoms and the Hordes factions are increasingly at each others throats as war manufacturing ramps up to meet demands. Ideas for why the Khador and Cygnar Colossi are possible where the Behemoth and Thunderhead are Character 'jacks may be the fact that it's easier to mount advanced systems on larger chassis than it is to try and down-size them for smaller warjacks. And, of course, these won't be the only releases for each faction in the Colossus expansion. We may very well see more electricity-powered Cygnar jacks and more Khadoran jacks resembling the Behemoth.
Also: IKRPG? You will be mine. I already play Cryx, so I won't even have to worry about buying models for enemies!
I think I still have the original IKRPG books (somewhere), but I'll probably end up with the new ones. The Monsternomicon is still my favorite "Monster Manual" for D&D. I especially loved the "lore" aspect for each enemy.
On the other hand, it seems like they're stomping all over their existing fluff.
Specifically
the Behemoth is one-of-a-kind because it was too impractical to make more, so why is this giant thing here?
I thought it was along the same lines for the Thunderhead being unique.
Remember that the storyline in Warmachine actively progresses. The Iron Kingdoms and the Hordes factions are increasingly at each others throats as war manufacturing ramps up to meet demands. Ideas for why the Khador and Cygnar Colossi are possible where the Behemoth and Thunderhead are Character 'jacks may be the fact that it's easier to mount advanced systems on larger chassis than it is to try and down-size them for smaller warjacks.
Shouldn't that make those character jacks no longer unique, then? Presumably, if you're able to build bigger and more complex warjacks, you should also be able to make more of those...
spiralingcadaver wrote: Shouldn't that make those character jacks no longer unique, then? Presumably, if you're able to build bigger and more complex warjacks, you should also be able to make more of those...
Hmm... good point.
Well, the background shows that 'Character' warnouns often have a personality of their own, and of course their own imprints with certain caster's.
Of course, now I'm just drawing at straws. I'm just going to wait until the book comes out, or we get an actual explanation from PP, and until then I'll just appreciate the new shiny gubbins.
Character 'jacks have personalities burned into their cortexes
which could be said to be essential to the nature of their
respective 'jacks. So maybe only Thorn can make efficient
use out of an arcantrik relay. Or the Behemoth can manage
armor piercing fists and double bombards.
Never before have I seen a Warmachine mini that I genuinely liked (not that I have seen many mind) but this looks cool. I look forward to seeing what price they come out at.
These are definitely the best Warmachine models I've seen thus far. Still not enough to get me into the game, but I like the way Privateer is heading with things such as this.
malfred wrote:Character 'jacks have personalities burned into their cortexes
which could be said to be essential to the nature of their
respective 'jacks. So maybe only Thorn can make efficient
use out of an arcantrik relay. Or the Behemoth can manage
armor piercing fists and double bombards.
But Big B and the Thunderhead are only character Jacks due to their complexity of construction, rather than being a unique "personality" like the Deathjack (and even that, legends speak of more than one) or Drago. Seeing as they upgraded the Warjacks of Reknown from Escalation in MK1 to "normal" Jacks in a way in MK2 (same went for the Alpha Warbeasts in Hordes) I fully see both Big B and the Thunderhead becoming FA2.
Admittedly it does cheapen Big B's schtick a little, but so long as Armour Piercing still works on them I can confidently scrap those Colossi in 1 turn with him.
As for the Trollbloods and Mulg, maybe Mulg is the only intelligent huge Troll, maybe their Colossal is a little "Derpy" and needs to be goaded into battle. Who knows? Also this paves the way nicely for the massive Woldnoun from the Monsternomicon whose name escapes me right now...
Ooooooooh Dang... now I will be spending another $100 + at Lock n Load this year. Oh well at least I have time to save and not stress about it. Dang they are nice.
cygnnus wrote:Privateer Press announces War Room. An iOS and Android app for WARMACHINE and HORDES. http://goo.gl/DChWW
Now, *that* I'm excited about!!
Valete,
JohnS
Lil late, see my post on page one
Wasn't trying to say "I saw it first", just didn't have a good way yo cut the quote on my phone. The statement of fact is still valid though. I am excited about the possibility of using my iPhone/iPad for the game. I don't really care for the diddly marking on the cards if there's an option.
Considering the moderate cost, I really like the idea!
The Khador gave me sudden flashbacks of the old Revell Robotech Defenders kits I use to put together as kid. Those were f'ing awesome... must resist...
At work so couldn't watch the video. How will these guys figure into current games? Will the point values have to go up to and limit this to larger games or are these going to be showing up in any game. Know that battle wagons, while cool were not necessarily a required or desired unit, do you get the feeling these will?
Have stayed out of WM/H for a while, but these are calling to me.
Kurgash wrote:Why do I get the feeling battle engines was the beta test before they figured on launching these?
How so?
Battle Engines aren't warjacks and aren't part of battlegroups.
Base and model size, perhaps?
I mean, we had 30mm bases, then 40mm, 50mm, makes sense, and then 120mm Ooooh yeeeah sized bases, which can change a lot in a game where LoS is determined by a model's base size.
I just can't believe the utter naviety of advertising and previewing upcoming models that this upstart company is doing. What do they think they'll accomplish with that? They'll never have the love-hate relationship that you need to be the biggest company in the industry if they let you know what they're coming out with more than 30 days prior to release. This is madness!! Don't they know the best way to retain customer loyalist is by revealing nothing about the future other than the regularly scheduled price "adjustment"!?!
Kurgash wrote:Why do I get the feeling battle engines was the beta test before they figured on launching these?
How so?
Battle Engines aren't warjacks and aren't part of battlegroups.
This. Apollyon was the beta test for Colossals.
Noisy_Marine wrote:I'm not happy to see PP produce all these really big, expensive models. We have battle engines, colossals, and I'm willing to bet the new double epic casters will be on these huge bases as well.
What? No. That's stupid. 3Vlad, eVyros, and Kr3oss are all cavalry models, and 3mo is a pair of small based models. No word on Gasp3 yet, but he's either still a medium based model or they grafted him onto a Soul Hunter.
So they mentioned specifically in the video that they didn't want the colossi to look like up-sized warjacks...but that's exactly what the Ret one looks like! It looks like an up-sized manticore with a stupider-looking head and pointless little details added all over. It's like they said "This model is too plain to charge $150 for it...stick a million fething glowy lights all over it that serve no purpose. Yeah, that looks good." Since Ret jacks don't have rivets on them they had to do something, I guess. lol...
I guess I need to see the actual model before making a final judgment, but I imagine the painted version of the Ret colossus will look more like a fething Christmas tree than a stompy robot. Or a stompy robot Christmas tree. Considering also that I started getting into Warmachine purely because it was cheaper and smaller than 40k, I'm not exactly thrilled by the news that PP is interested in pushing bigger armies and selling bigger models like this with prices that put GW's to shame.
I honestly don't expect that PP will ever really push "bigger armies." Yes, they've given the option to play larger games with the streamlined Unbound rules (that people have been asking for since day 1, incidentally), but no, the battle engines and even Colossals aren't going to force you to suddenly start playing 75 points or higher just to stay in the game. Hell, I look forward to fielding 2 Conquests with Karchev at 25 to 35 points, depending on their final cost.
Sidstyler wrote: Considering also that I started getting into Warmachine purely because it was cheaper and smaller than 40k, I'm not exactly thrilled by the news that PP is interested in pushing bigger armies and selling bigger models like this with prices that put GW's to shame.
Give the people what they want. People want larger battles apparently.
Although imo it is a bit ironic that Warmachine is a "skirmishy" wargame yet quite a bit of the artwork depicts hundreds of soldiers fighting. I guess its a bit like other games like Battletech and such
kenshin620 wrote:This is an interesting turn of events.
Sidstyler wrote: Considering also that I started getting into Warmachine purely because it was cheaper and smaller than 40k, I'm not exactly thrilled by the news that PP is interested in pushing bigger armies and selling bigger models like this with prices that put GW's to shame.
Give the people what they want. People want larger battles apparently.
Although imo it is a bit ironic that Warmachine is a "skirmishy" wargame yet quite a bit of the artwork depicts hundreds of soldiers fighting. I guess its a bit like other games like Battletech and such
Personally, I would have preferred it stayed small, rather than getting EPIC(!), but now I play Malifaux, so at least I can have one setting where the game resembles the fluff.
One thing I'd like to point out is that Warmachine still focuses on battles around the 35-50 point range. The latest battlereport in NQ40 was 50 points, in fact. They aren't pushing for 75 or 100 - or even 150 - point games in any way.
Warmachine has been out for, what, 9 years now? You've got to assume that some people have been collecting since the very beginnings of mk1, and can you imagine what their collections look like? So that's where we get Unbound from, where you're basically playing 3 50 point lists. I can see where people get to this point, however, due to the way PP's games work.
I was so excited I forced my wife to watch the video. After watching it she goes eh, that blue one was cool looking. That's how awesome these things are, my wife actually said something miniature related was cool!
Alfndrate wrote:I'm trying to remember what they mentioned about that. I think they said something along the lines of the colossi losing weapons, idk though.
Mines does sound pretty cool
Now, that would be a cool strategy.
'Oh man, my Stormwall's down to a couple of boxes... Mines! Mines everywhere! Forward, my static-y haired minions!'
Laughing Man wrote:I honestly don't expect that PP will ever really push "bigger armies."
Why not? It's the easiest way to keep selling minis to the same people.
Because of how PP's games work. They don't try to entice people into buying 3 of every unit, solo, and warcaster in the game.
But what they actually do is design their games so that each unit, solo, warcaster, etc. changes the way you and your army play. So you start with 15 points. You get up to 25 points. Then you buy another unit and some solos to swap in and out at 25. Maybe another warcaster to see what that'll change. And then you head up to 35 points. A new unit or two, maybe another few solos, a couple more warcasters...
And the next thing you know, you've got 200+ points worth of models without needing to play 100 point games every single week.
As an example, let's look at the latest League PP is running. There is no 'Games must be played at 75 points or more, or they will not count'. You can play the entire league with 15 point games, if you wanted to.
Most folks who play Warmachine/Hordes know that the sweetspot is 35-50pts.
If PP was really pushing for larger games they would have put the UNBOUND rules (rules for playing 100+ pts) on a separate book instead of putting it in NQ.
PP knows however that not a lot of people like going over 75 points and a ruleset for 100+ pts wouldnt have gone over well.
The colossals will be designed like everything else in warmachine im sure. Essential for some (jack casters), negligible for others and outright useless to a few.
While they look cool, didnt they just come up with battle engines a short while ago?
And it seems to break the warmahine hordes fluff alot- Khador's behamoth was the biggest they built, but it was too expensive for mass production....yet they are building Colossals? Really? Same with something like the Thunderhead.
Further, didnt troll fluff state Mulg was one of the biggest trolls there was? So where are they getting bigger ones?
Bakerofish wrote:If PP was really pushing for larger games they would have put the UNBOUND rules (rules for playing 100+ pts) on a separate book instead of putting it in NQ.
One of the bits of information coming out of TempleCon is that the Unbound rules will be within Warmachine: Colossals.
heard that too but that doesnt really change what I said. They could have sold Unbound as its own book (which is easy enough to do) with Unbound-only units if they were so inclined. The Colossals book will be coming with new stuff and the Unbound rules will be added to it...kinda like the campaign stuff in Escalation.
As I said in an earlier thread that iPad app looks like a god send. What a terrific looking (and practical) program.
Re: New Colossals--the Khador one looks pretty ace. I play Cygnar heavily and I just can't get behind their new Colossal. The mine launchers/guns just look tacked on--and it's got a strange vibe about it (Like you can't find a center point).
I just want to know, based on the Troll teaser, how many of you are going to use the Trollblood's colossal beast as Mulg? I mean he is supposed to be the size of a small mountain right?
Some people already convert the extreme dire troll mauler sculpt into a mulg.
A lot of speculation on the trollbloods forums is that this isn't just a giant troll, but a troll carrying/pulling something... that'd be nice. I do agree that it could be hard to justify a giant troll, but I'm pretty much open to anything as long as it's an awesome model
Re: Unbound, I think it's cool to have rules to use the myriad of models that I have although I don't know if I'll ever play it, it's nice that it's there! You'd think the base rules would need to be streamlined quite a bit to allow for such a large game, but from the NQ stuff that I read on it, that didn't really seem to be the case.
heard that too but that doesnt really change what I said. They could have sold Unbound as its own book (which is easy enough to do) with Unbound-only units if they were so inclined. The Colossals book will be coming with new stuff and the Unbound rules will be added to it...kinda like the campaign stuff in Escalation.
Consider the NQ release in the same light as the initial NQ release of Grind - a pseudo-open beta, so they can get wider feedback before finalising the rules into WM:Colossals.
Equally, the NQ release allows people to get a feel for the game size and basic mechanics, before the rulebook has the final "official" version in it.
It does make sense to put them together- as 20-point monstrosities aren't going to usually be viable at 35 points (or at least, I hope not, and don't expect them to be).
The Ipad app video shows numerous screens that have "Army Builder" on the top using the reference to a program function in general instead of as a reference to the named program. I suspect Wolf Lair will throw another fit and send another round of amateurish cease and desist letters that they'll later claim weren't that.
I am genuinely surprised at my excitement for these new Colossals. I turned away from WM after MK II came out but I am considering buying the book just to see how this new unit type plays on the game table.
Feels weird to have a budding interest in WM again. Well played, PP.
heard that too but that doesnt really change what I said. They could have sold Unbound as its own book (which is easy enough to do) with Unbound-only units if they were so inclined. The Colossals book will be coming with new stuff and the Unbound rules will be added to it...kinda like the campaign stuff in Escalation.
Actually, I'd argue that it's pushing it harder. If it were in its own book, people would probably be more inclined not to buy it, than "the new book comes with the requisite new models...And an new scenario set," which would have people more likely to see the rules.
RiTides wrote:Some people already convert the extreme dire troll mauler sculpt into a mulg.
A lot of speculation on the trollbloods forums is that this isn't just a giant troll, but a troll carrying/pulling something... that'd be nice. I do agree that it could be hard to justify a giant troll, but I'm pretty much open to anything as long as it's an awesome model :
I personally like the other theory being tossed around that it's a female Dire Troll.
spiralingcadaver wrote:
Actually, I'd argue that it's pushing it harder. If it were in its own book, people would probably be more inclined not to buy it, than "the new book comes with the requisite new models...And an new scenario set," which would have people more likely to see the rules.
if it were its own book people would say that PP's dedicating a WHOLE new book to larger battles so they MUST be pushing it.
*shrugs*
but if they push larger battles...so what? It's an option. You don't need to play that pointage anyway. With what we know so far, the only point level that you can't play the colossals on are the 15pt games (battlebox) so i really dont understand why this is a concern.
spiralingcadaver wrote:
Actually, I'd argue that it's pushing it harder. If it were in its own book, people would probably be more inclined not to buy it, than "the new book comes with the requisite new models...And an new scenario set," which would have people more likely to see the rules.
if it were its own book people would say that PP's dedicating a WHOLE new book to larger battles so they MUST be pushing it.
*shrugs*
but if they push larger battles...so what? It's an option. You don't need to play that pointage anyway. With what we know so far, the only point level that you can't play the colossals on are the 15pt games (battlebox) so i really dont understand why this is a concern.
Not even sure of that. If they ARE 18-20 points, then you can play them at 15 points easily. Just not with anything but your Caster on the table.
Laughing Man wrote:Or Kraye. See how many guns the Stormwall has?
That's assuming the Colossals count as Warjacks for spell purposes etc. In the vid when you see the Galleon's card it lists it as a "Mercenary Colossal". Now, either this is simply another naming convention a'la Myrmidons, Bonejacks and Helljacks or Colossals do not count as "Warjacks" despite being part of the Battlegroup, which stops a fair few shenanigans.
Laughing Man wrote:Or Kraye. See how many guns the Stormwall has?
That's assuming the Colossals count as Warjacks for spell purposes etc. In the vid when you see the Galleon's card it lists it as a "Mercenary Colossal". Now, either this is simply another naming convention a'la Myrmidons, Bonejacks and Helljacks or Colossals do not count as "Warjacks" despite being part of the Battlegroup, which stops a fair few shenanigans.
I'm currently wondering if the card has had more than the obvious removed - i.e., we don't see stats or points cost, and bar a couple of frames we don't get any idea of the weapons either. It is quite possible that "Warjack" has been removed from the type descriptor. Equally, Privateer may have been removed, given the look of the thing.
Alternatively, as you say, the rules for the Colossal unit type may indicate that this is a type of warjack.
Kraye is an interesting one - if the rules for Colossals do indicate they're a type of heavy warjack, then the Stormwall is going to be freaking nuts with him - heavy cavalry movement & Guided Fire, anyone?
Man I'm just praying for a realease date These models must be kinda extreme on the board, knowing the philosophy of Warmahordes. I wonder how many heavies it take to face-off againts one colossal?
Laughing Man wrote:Or Kraye. See how many guns the Stormwall has?
That's assuming the Colossals count as Warjacks for spell purposes etc. In the vid when you see the Galleon's card it lists it as a "Mercenary Colossal". Now, either this is simply another naming convention a'la Myrmidons, Bonejacks and Helljacks or Colossals do not count as "Warjacks" despite being part of the Battlegroup, which stops a fair few shenanigans.
That's why I like my Hunter's naming convention. Bases keep getting bigger--his gun stays the same age.
Laughing Man wrote:Or Kraye. See how many guns the Stormwall has?
That's assuming the Colossals count as Warjacks for spell purposes etc. In the vid when you see the Galleon's card it lists it as a "Mercenary Colossal". Now, either this is simply another naming convention a'la Myrmidons, Bonejacks and Helljacks or Colossals do not count as "Warjacks" despite being part of the Battlegroup, which stops a fair few shenanigans.
That's why I like my Hunter's naming convention. Bases keep getting bigger--his gun stays the same age.
I mean, it has the same benefit!
Indeed. My Big B will have no such inferiority issues when he scraps these in one turn.
I just love that menoth missile boat + fire! I love how they made it look kinda like a cathedral with the towering points, but these steeples fire missiles. Hopefully it will help menoth with some of its more long range support.
I love the look of them all and I really hope the kraken can be poised in different ways. I've got a couple of ideas for that model.
Part of the battlegroup yet not a warjack, I can see that working quite well. Even if they are a warjack it's going be difficult moving them around and such. And those thinking about Karchev, doesn't Tow specify completely within back arc? I don't think that's going to be possible.
ShumaGorath wrote:$150 dollar 10 pound resin blocks incoming.
I love these things. I don't even like warjacks and I love these things. They're so much better proportioned then the warjacks, it's like they finally figured out that tiny legs are stupid.
Look at their waist and try to come back with the tiny legs stupidity comment...
But yeah, now that they figured the right size for legs, how they try to get the right siz for waist that could actually support this ridiculous mass!
Anyway, love it!, can't wait to see the Cryx one!
Its just a shame that in my club no one plays Warmachines and that i am the only one to have bought models..., ended up using my Helljack as a WE Dread...
Samus_aran115 wrote:So. They're like dreadknight sized? Neat.
I do think they tower the Dreadknights by a fair amount...
I love the new mini's and as long as the rules are not game breaking like they said im fine with it. but if they make anything bigger i would be sad as i think right now they have reached the maximum size the games needs to be. that said more smaller units and stuff like that would be great as choices are awesome.
The giant robot lover in me loves these. And really, I guess that's why I like warmachine in the first place.
I'm assuming they will be plastic or resin. When the Behemoth first came out, we used to joke that the table would bend a little every time you put the Behemoth on it. If these things were metal, the table would crack straight in half!
ashrog wrote:The giant robot lover in me loves these. And really, I guess that's why I like warmachine in the first place.
I'm assuming they will be plastic or resin. When the Behemoth first came out, we used to joke that the table would bend a little every time you put the Behemoth on it. If these things were metal, the table would crack straight in half!
Yep, PP's confirmed that they'll be a mix of resin and white metal parts. Mostly resin, I'm sure.
Clearly, what we need now is eKarchev, wearing a Conquest.
Clearly, that's not epic enough for eKarchev. He'll have to wear a pair of them, duct taped together.
Ah, the potential Unbound silliness - one human Merc Warcaster alongside two Faction warcasters, where the army is just eight or nine Colossals (split between the Merc and Faction Colossals) could be highly amusing...
Dysartes wrote:Ah, the potential Unbound silliness - one human Merc Warcaster alongside two Faction warcasters, where the army is just six Renegades and six or seven Colossals (split between the Merc and Faction Colossals) could be highly amusing...
Dysartes wrote:Ah, the potential Unbound silliness - one human Merc Warcaster alongside two Faction warcasters, where the army is just six Renegades and six or seven Colossals (split between the Merc and Faction Colossals) could be highly amusing...
Fixed that for you.
Depends on which Faction you decde to run - I was thinking Merc/Cygnar, possibly with eNemo, eCaine and Ashlynn or MACBAIN...
Throw in the Squire for eNemo, Reinholdt for eCaine and Sylas for MacBain, of course, and run eCaine in full SuperSolo mode.
Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
I dont play much Warmachine I have one box set and I have one box set of Hordes but After seeing this I am gong to have to get a colossal model, and it makes me wonder doese this mean that the Hordes game is going to get Colossal sised creatures?
I'll get the Cygnar, Khadorian, Merc, AngryElf(tm) and Cryx colossii and it shall be a building and converting frenzy during my holidays like there was no tomorrow!
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
My argument is the same as always.... the Warmachine model will almost certainly be more expensive than a GW equivalent model, but it will be a better value in terms of dollars spent to impact on the tabletop/points ratio.
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
Which, interestingly enough, would be smaller than the Colossals if Privateer's metric (Conquest being wider than a Throne is tall) is right, as the Stompa is only 7 inches wide and the Throne's a good ten inches tall.
How dare Privateer Press release bigger more expensive giant robot models that won't be overpowered and that won't automatically win games.
Why on Earth would a miniature games company do something like that? It just makes no sense. It would be like Matt Wilson sitting down and saying, "I want to make a game with giant steam powered robots."
Let’s not bring up the GW versus PP stuff again. Let’s not feed the trolls either.
In regards to the topic, it’s good to see PP branching out with the Colossals. It’s such a simple idea that I’m surprised they never did it sooner. Personally I think the move to Colossals is more of a case of PP trying to come up with a different type of unit to keep things fresh rather than some sort of secret underhanded push to make players play higher points games. Considering larger points games have been fairing very well with the fan base, adding more rules, units and support makes sense IMO.
I wonder if Collosals will count as a Warjacks as far as caster warjack points are concerned. If so than I expect to see some pretty cheesy pGoreshade lists for 20-35pt games.
Lastly, it’s also awesome to see PP continuing to provide sneak peaks and it is indeed much better than “GW’s rumour crap”.
candy.man wrote:
I wonder if Collosals will count as a Warjacks as far as caster warjack points are concerned. If so than I expect to see some pretty cheesy pGoreshade lists for 20-35pt games.
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
Which, interestingly enough, would be smaller than the Colossals if Privateer's metric (Conquest being wider than a Throne is tall) is right, as the Stompa is only 7 inches wide and the Throne's a good ten inches tall.
solkan wrote:How dare Privateer Press release bigger more expensive giant robot models that won't be overpowered and that won't automatically win games.
To be fair, we don't know if that will actually be true or not. I'm not gonna believe whatever crap they say in the video and wait for the actual rules to come out before saying they'll be perfectly fair and balanced. (Personally though I don't think they will be.)
And I'm calling bs on the comparisons being made here. From the scale shots in the video I don't think these things are going to be anywhere near titan-sized. I have a warjack on my desk right now and I really don't see how you're coming to the conclusion that an Ork stompa is smaller than a PP colossal is going to be judging from the photos. If anything it'll be about the same height as a dreadknight, probably slightly taller and obviously bulkier, but if you're expecting warhound-sized models you're going to be disappointed.
If these are metal/resin hybrids, I imagine the price point will be between $95-110 USD. I'm hoping for the lower end of that scale, because I really do want a Conquest.
I haven't seen much indication of PP *pushing* for larger point games - 50 points seems to be the "norm" currently. And I have to say, I've never really seen a Warmachine player decline to play smaller points level games with new players - we've had occasional new players at our FLGS, and someone is always willing to play some 15- or 25- point games to teach the rules.
I think PP knows what they're doing with these colossals, and I'm excited for the new expansion.
Agreed, Mr. Grey! Although I will be interested in trying out an Unbound game one day, I can't imagine it being a normal game...
The norm at my store is 35 points, and when people want to get in a lot of fast games, 25 points at times. 50 is rarer, but is played... I've never seen higher in-person.
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
Which, interestingly enough, would be smaller than the Colossals if Privateer's metric (Conquest being wider than a Throne is tall) is right, as the Stompa is only 7 inches wide and the Throne's a good ten inches tall.
Looking at the models in the videos, they are clearly a good bit smaller than a Stompa or Baneblade, and comparably priced. Very nice models, though.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote:I dont play much Warmachine I have one box set and I have one box set of Hordes but After seeing this I am gong to have to get a colossal model, and it makes me wonder doese this mean that the Hordes game is going to get Colossal sised creatures?
Yes, yes they will - if you want the video, the concept art for the Troll Colossal is shown right at the end...
Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.
All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.
If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.
RiTides wrote:Agreed, Mr. Grey! Although I will be interested in trying out an Unbound game one day, I can't imagine it being a normal game...
The norm at my store is 35 points, and when people want to get in a lot of fast games, 25 points at times. 50 is rarer, but is played... I've never seen higher in-person.
I've done 150 point games. It was silly. The stat cards took up so much room!
War-room will be most useful if i play again... I can just have the phone and flick between cards.
In a big game the Battle Engines just dont have enough drama though.
infinite_array wrote:Also: The way PP works, it'll be cool to see that the Colossi won't be game-breaking, must-have items that are super competitive, much like the Battle Engines. They'll also probably be great points-padding to get to Unbound games.
Yes, but why would you want to play Unbound anyway? It's absolutely terrible. If you want to just throw all your crap on the table, just play a normal game at 150 points with three casters. You'll still have the game-breaking amount of interactions, but at least you won't have to deal with the tedious turn/initiative order system that makes the game fall apart.
infinite_array wrote:Also: The way PP works, it'll be cool to see that the Colossi won't be game-breaking, must-have items that are super competitive, much like the Battle Engines. They'll also probably be great points-padding to get to Unbound games.
Yes, but why would you want to play Unbound anyway? It's absolutely terrible. If you want to just throw all your crap on the table, just play a normal game at 150 points with three casters. You'll still have the game-breaking amount of interactions, but at least you won't have to deal with the tedious turn/initiative order system that makes the game fall apart.
Unbound is very flawed but having a normal game of warmachine at 150 points would suck wouldn't it? You'd be sitting there for an hour just writing down damage before you got your go. Then with all the synargies between units would make it OTT.
Unbound was a good effort to try and make a playable game at those sizes. It needs revising but I'm glad they tried...
BTW @infinite_array. I wouldn't call the battle engines competitive. I think they're way too fragile. Not much better than a lightjack. I think these Colossi are what the battle engines should have been. I really want them
If I understood correctly what the preview video said, and if it stay the same until July, Colossals will be usable both in low points game and larger points game. And I don't think they'll be power-breaking, cause technically, they are just two jacks fused together. So where one player would field two heavy jacks, the other would field just one.
I rather enjoyed the AD&D supplement that came out before Warmahordes. However, I will definitely not be buying this RPG. The Iron Kingdoms are fun when added to a larger existing campaign world, not so much by themselves, and I absolutely hate the combat system Warmachine and Hordes uses. Though If I ever run a GK army I'll definitely be looking to the Colossals for my Dreadknights. I bet the Menoth Colossals would make great Ad-Mech Knights.
Lordhat wrote:I rather enjoyed the AD&D supplement that came out before Warmahordes. However, I will definitely not be buying this RPG. The Iron Kingdoms are fun when added to a larger existing campaign world, not so much by themselves, and I absolutely hate the combat system Warmachine and Hordes uses.
:( I quite like it. Much more so than 40k. Still learning how D&D combat works though so cant compare
Well to be fair, when we were running AD&D 2nd, whenever we found an expansion or campaign setting we liked, we just slapped it onto our existing world. Nothing like being able to travel from Athas, to the Red Steel Coast, to the Iron Kingdoms, to Ravenloft in the course of a campaign.
obsidianaura wrote:BTW @infinite_array. I wouldn't call the battle engines competitive. I think they're way too fragile. Not much better than a lightjack. I think these Colossi are what the battle engines should have been. I really want them
I would agree with this. Some of the battle engines can be good in specific lists (stormstrider in eHaley's tier where they get the power tokens they will otherwise never get; celestial fulcrum in a Cassius list to hide the big tree, etc.), but overall they are not exactly a top choice. I think they went overboard in trying to balance them with their point cost. They are not worth as much as a heavy jack, and certainly not as much as a heavy warbeast.
Comparing them to light warjacks is appropriate, and IMO they should have been costed as such. 6-7 points would be just fine for most of the engines.
obsidianaura wrote::( I quite like it. Much more so than 40k. Still learning how D&D combat works though so cant compare
While I'm starting to like Malifaux more, WM has a very tight combat system, and the best part about their fiction is their world (I find their plot anywhere from boring, to contrived, to poorly executed, with the occasional inconsistency).
What I'm curious about is the 2d6 system. It just doesn't seem like it would work. The same way 40k's 1d6 system breaks down at small point levels (combat patrol, or whatever that was called, was terribly unbalanced, simply because it was too random), I feel like WM's 2d6 would break down with fewer models. Well, specifically, few models, all of which are important. Your player character matters a lot more, in the long run, than your arc node.
The way they talk about it, it sounds like they're going the D&D 4 route of "everyone's awesome and magic!" which I'm highly skeptical of...
Their setting is interesting enough, but nothing spectacular or unique as far as steampunk/Victorian fantasy is concerned.
Their fluff is pretty terrible overall. As the above posted said, the plot is frequently boring or contrived, and honestly the fluff writing itself leaves much to be desired (especially the combat scenes, which read like someone's half-assed attempt to make a fluffy battle report).
Omegus wrote:Their setting is interesting enough, but nothing spectacular or unique as far as steampunk/Victorian fantasy is concerned.
Their fluff is pretty terrible overall. As the above posted said, the plot is frequently boring or contrived, and honestly the fluff writing itself leaves much to be desired (especially the combat scenes, which read like someone's half-assed attempt to make a fluffy battle report).
Welcome to RPG settings. How many copies can I put in your bag?
Omegus wrote:Their setting is interesting enough, but nothing spectacular or unique as far as steampunk/Victorian fantasy is concerned.
Their fluff is pretty terrible overall. As the above posted said, the plot is frequently boring or contrived, and honestly the fluff writing itself leaves much to be desired (especially the combat scenes, which read like someone's half-assed attempt to make a fluffy battle report).
That's an interesting take on it, I'll be sure to go back and let all the people that I sold rule/expansion books to, just to read. And all the former 40k players that went so far out of their way to pick up the out of print IK RPG books, becuase they got so into the setting. They may not be GRRM, but PP is far and away better than most companies out there when it comes to their setting and lore, and their short story style fluff pieces are better than most of the D&D novels out there, certainly better than most of the 40k novels.
My only 2 complaints are that nobody ever really dies, 6 years of constant warfare with the warcasters leading form the front and the only one that died came back as undead for her epic version. My other issue is that the game is skirmish based, but the stories are always describing hundreds or thousands of soldiers per side. It plays terribly as a large battle game, but most of the stories try to paint that picture. People had the same complaints about LotR, they wanted to do helm's Deep or Pelenor Fields battles, but the game system just didn't work with a hundred figs+ per side.
As cool as these Colossals are, I'd love to see a 10mm or 15mm Company-level version of the game even more. Keep the super-heavies and the Gundams to small scale please, 28mm is for skirmishes and small platoons.
obsidianaura wrote::( I quite like it. Much more so than 40k. Still learning how D&D combat works though so cant compare
While I'm starting to like Malifaux more, WM has a very tight combat system, and the best part about their fiction is their world (I find their plot anywhere from boring, to contrived, to poorly executed, with the occasional inconsistency).
What I'm curious about is the 2d6 system. It just doesn't seem like it would work. The same way 40k's 1d6 system breaks down at small point levels (combat patrol, or whatever that was called, was terribly unbalanced, simply because it was too random), I feel like WM's 2d6 would break down with fewer models. Well, specifically, few models, all of which are important. Your player character matters a lot more, in the long run, than your arc node.
The way they talk about it, it sounds like they're going the D&D 4 route of "everyone's awesome and magic!" which I'm highly skeptical of...
I've always thought that using 2 dice over 1 dice reduces randomness a little, you can predict your average roll of 7ish. Isn't something like a d20 completely random because any result its as likely as any other?
I've found the background to be pretty interesting, now that I've gotten into it more... it did feel like coming in halfway through a story, but I guess that's also because the story is actually advancing and not just being repeated
I considered getting all the old books to read up on background, and might snag an auction for such if it's ever all in one place for Hordes...
obsidianaura wrote:
I've always thought that using 2 dice over 1 dice reduces randomness a little, you can predict your average roll of 7ish. Isn't something like a d20 completely random because any result its as likely as any other?
Welcome to the bell curve. Results will tend to favour the average value whereas extremes on either end are far less likely to occur. On a d20 each facing of the die has 1/20 chance of appearing so yes, a critical hit is just as likely as a critical miss. Add in modifiers and things get more tricky but that's the basics of it.
I just realized that technically a critical miss is just as likely as a critial hit on 2d6 too, but both results are less likely than that of an average result..
Anyways the benefit of using 2d6 is that it allows you to plan your turns and manage your luck more effectively. This is part of what makes WMH such a competitive ruleset.
. But yeah, ditto!
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