So...this is happening and it's awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I1N0NLykLyQ

The player in me cheers.

The guy holding the wallet cries when I realize I'm going to have to get the Cygnar Colossal. And the Menoth one. And then the Circle giant Wold Death thing they'll probably release...

I'm not as excited as ya'll, I suppose. I think the models look really cool, but they're going to be expensive I have have trouble believing this isn't simply a push towards larger games of WarmaHordes.

I may get the model, as long as I can find it online at a discount, and provided even after that discount it's still only hovering around $100 bucks. But for many, I think it's going to be a tough sell.....

I'll eventually wind up getting one of each, but (1) I am an army altaholic; and (2) I may have to finish getting the battle engines first.

The Khador one looks nice though. I may have to step up my Khador purchases and painting - as things stand, it would look awfully lonesome out there, standing with only a couple jacks and some Winterguard for company.

warlordgarou wrote:I'll eventually wind up getting one of each, but (1) I am an army altaholic; and (2) I may have to finish getting the battle engines first.

The Khador one looks nice though. I may have to step up my Khador purchases and painting - as things stand, it would look awfully lonesome out there, standing with only a couple jacks and some Winterguard for company.

Slow down and paint

malfred wrote:

warlordgarou wrote:I'll eventually wind up getting one of each, but (1) I am an army altaholic; and (2) I may have to finish getting the battle engines first.

The Khador one looks nice though. I may have to step up my Khador purchases and painting - as things stand, it would look awfully lonesome out there, standing with only a couple jacks and some Winterguard for company.

Slow down and paint

Hey, I finished two more models last month than I bought. Of course, I didn't buy any, so that may be a problem.

I'll have some serious painting time (as in, 2-3 hours a night) for much of the next couple of weeks. I hope to get a lot of stuff finished up in that time.

Of course, if I can only buy as many models as I paint, then I should be set. I finish up a full unit of Immortals (and they are almost done; it's a low-hanging fruit), and that would let me buy the Wraith, the Vessel of judgement, Celestial Fulcrum, Throne of Everblight and War Wagon, and I would still be ahead by 5 models - enough for a few of the colossals. Sounds like a plan, right?

cincydooley wrote:I'm not as excited as ya'll, I suppose. I think the models look really cool, but they're going to be expensive I have have trouble believing this isn't simply a push towards larger games of WarmaHordes.

I may get the model, as long as I can find it online at a discount, and provided even after that discount it's still only hovering around $100 bucks. But for many, I think it's going to be a tough sell.....

Yeah, my beef with it is that a number of other things have already been announced as "the biggest X!" And then there's the bit about "the colossal were outmoded and too big," so the solution in a setting where resources are stretched increasingly thing (if Legends and Wrath are to be believed), the answer is to bring in something huge, but not as huge?

I feel like it's just a justification to make a big new shiny. They're cool, but I feel like there's no world logic to them.

One of the problems facing beginner players like myself (well, new to HoMachine) is that the larger models and armies get, the more daunting and intimidating it gets. You feel as if you're about to commit to something that you won't feel the full benefit of for a while. Games Workshop is especially bad at this of course, you need to sink a good £70 or so in before you can play, and this seems a bit like Apocalypse for HoMachine. Plus, I understand they have quite a few expansions/system updates out already for MkII, which is doubly daunting for people wanting to get in as you need to get the Rulebook, then the Army Book, then Wrath and Dominion and Battle Engines and now this before you can get the 'full' experience, as it were. I mean, I have a Khador starter set, but the more you show me I need to collect the more I a: don't know where to start and b: don't feel up to it - that's a lot of time and money invested there, and I don't feel I'd get enough enjoyment out of it for it to be worth it, or at least - there are more effective alternatives I'm already partaking in.
Just wanna put it out there.

GoldenKaos wrote:\ Plus, I understand they have quite a few expansions/system updates out already for MkII, which is doubly daunting for people wanting to get in as you need to get the Rulebook, then the Army Book, then Wrath and Dominion and Battle Engines and now this before you can get the 'full' experience, as it were.

Hang up there smokey. You don't need the Forces book, Wrath, Domination, or the Battle Engines. Just the Rulebook, and maybe the Faction Deck. The 'full' experience of Warmachine can be done at 15 points, or 25, or 35, or 50, or 150!

And a quick visit to the friendly, company-run forums will answer any questions you have.

If they ever streamline the rules so they're not so fiddly (Cards, focus/fury token, soul tokens, spell markers, damnit!) then that Khador Colossal will be mine. As it is, anything more than 15 points would just too much micromanaging.

GoldenKaos wrote:One of the problems facing beginner players like myself (well, new to HoMachine) is that the larger models and armies get, the more daunting and intimidating it gets. You feel as if you're about to commit to something that you won't feel the full benefit of for a while. Games Workshop is especially bad at this of course, you need to sink a good £70 or so in before you can play, and this seems a bit like Apocalypse for HoMachine. Plus, I understand they have quite a few expansions/system updates out already for MkII, which is doubly daunting for people wanting to get in as you need to get the Rulebook, then the Army Book, then Wrath and Dominion and Battle Engines and now this before you can get the 'full' experience, as it were. I mean, I have a Khador starter set, but the more you show me I need to collect the more I a: don't know where to start and b: don't feel up to it - that's a lot of time and money invested there, and I don't feel I'd get enough enjoyment out of it for it to be worth it, or at least - there are more effective alternatives I'm already partaking in.
Just wanna put it out there.

I totally hear you, I started when the game came out, and had been avidly following it until a little before Domination (Dominion?) came out, and, after 6(?) months, I feel like I'm already in the dark re: what armies can do. I have only the vaguest idea what it'd be like, starting now.

Personally, I don't even know what general but solid advice I could give a new player, as it really isn't clear what things are capable of from looking at their rules, and experience can get you only so far without advice (or a lot of time spent).

Frankly, I can't even be sure I'd be able to figure out a cogent way of collecting one of the armies I've gotten rid of again.

The best advice I can give is, pick a theme list you like, find out if it's considered okay, and try to avoid too many doubles. Other than that, it would take serious research, I think.

infinite_array wrote:

GoldenKaos wrote:\ Plus, I understand they have quite a few expansions/system updates out already for MkII, which is doubly daunting for people wanting to get in as you need to get the Rulebook, then the Army Book, then Wrath and Dominion and Battle Engines and now this before you can get the 'full' experience, as it were.

Hang up there smokey. You don't need the Forces book, Wrath, Domination, or the Battle Engines. Just the Rulebook, and maybe the Faction Deck. The 'full' experience of Warmachine can be done at 15 points, or 25, or 35, or 50, or 150!

And a quick visit to the friendly, company-run forums will answer any questions you have.

I knew someone would say that. And I disagree. If the full (i.e. all of it) experience of HoMachine could be experienced with just the Rulebook/Faction Deck at small level games, that means the updates/expansions and large armies add nothing to the game and are therefore irrelevant. Why do they exist then? The fact that they exist and are reportedly quite good means you must get them to experience the whole game. If you want see all 40K has to offer, for example, you're missing out on Apocalypse or Planetstrike or Cities of Death or Planetary Empires or Battle Missions, if you do not buy those books; but while GW's lot are sorta optional expansions, these seem like actual game updates if I understand correctly. I'll pass for now, thank you very much.

@spiralingcadaver

Frankly, I'm collecting for painting pleasure and aesthetic at the moment anyway, and I've begun the path of Steampunk Soviets. So if I'm gonna re-invest in it (I'm a little too engrossed with Infinity at the moment, though that will pass) I'll be going for whatever looks cool and/or fun to paint. Tactics be damned.

I knew someone would say that. And I disagree. If the full (i.e. all of it) experience of HoMachine could be experienced with just the Rulebook/Faction Deck at small level games, that means the updates/expansions and large armies add nothing to the game and are therefore irrelevant. Why do they exist then? The fact that they exist and are reportedly quite good means you must get them to experience the whole game. If you want see all 40K has to offer, for example, you're missing out on Apocalypse or Planetstrike or Cities of Death or Planetary Empires or Battle Missions, if you do not buy those books; but while GW's lot are sorta optional expansions, these seem like actual game updates if I understand correctly. I'll pass for now, thank you very much.

They just add new units. They're not better than anything else in the game, just new options. They're not required to be competitive, and a lot of tournament winning lists use nearly all models from before the changeover to Mk. 2. You're missing out about as much as if you didn't like fielding Tzeentch Marauders in your WoC army.

What the hell does "experience the whole game" even mean? Are you honestly saying that we're somehow handicapping our fun if no one in the group plays anything from the newest expansions?

You DON'T need those books to "experience the whole game", as anyone using them will(generally) explain those rules when you're facing them. The books ARE expansions, not mandatory like the Codex system unless you plan on buying those certain models or want the new 'Caster/'Lock Theme Lists. The game plays just fine without them and almost no-one thinks Battle Engines are competitive anyway.

I just introduced my group to the game and they've been doing just fine with nothing but the rule book and the models they choose to buy.

GoldenKaos wrote:

Frankly, I'm collecting for painting pleasure and aesthetic at the moment anyway, and I've begun the path of Steampunk Soviets. So if I'm gonna re-invest in it (I'm a little too engrossed with Infinity at the moment, though that will pass) I'll be going for whatever looks cool and/or fun to paint. Tactics be damned.

That's fair. I just tend to feel more compelled to paint something if it handles well. I only have so much time, and I'm not going to spend time painting toy soldiers that don't play well. Unless they're really, really nice, but there's rarely one of those outside of high end stuff.

spiralingcadaver wrote:That's fair. I just tend to feel more compelled to paint something if it handles well. I only have so much time, and I'm not going to spend time painting toy soldiers that don't play well. Unless they're really, really nice, but there's rarely one of those outside of high end stuff.

Ha! Reminds me of a club member who'd only paint his units as a reward system for how well they fared in battle.


Ontopic, the young world-weary cynic in me sees this update as GW-esque cash-cow shenanigans. Not saying it is or will be, but those be my first impressions. And I hate GW for their shenanigans. And it's intimidating for the newbz.

Personally I'm really looking forward to the new models. For the battle engines just don't do anything. Sure I guess they are nice looking and all that but I really couldn't care less about them. But these new Colossals on the other hand remind me of what first drew my attention to Warmachine to begin with. And that was the warjacks. Big steam powered robots beatin the crap out of stuff. Now I'm getting even bigger steam powered robots to bea even more crap out of stuff I'm just plain excited. Now with that being said I can understand where everybody else is coming from, but I am positive that I will be owning several of those things in the future.

Personally I'm just waiting for that squad of Exemplar Errants to slam into my Arcane Shielded Stormwall and bounce off, realizing that their puny POW 9 weapon master attacks aren't even going to cripple a couple systems, let alone destroy it. Or when the Bane Thralls taste the Menoth Colossal's rockets and flamethrowers as they struggle to get into charge range, only to realize that their best efforts aren't going to be able to destroy it...

Hell. Just having something with SO MUCH BEEF that 5 weapon master infantry won't explode it in one round makes me happy. The fact that the models look *amazing* so far is just an added bonus.

GoldenKaos wrote:One of the problems facing beginner players like myself (well, new to HoMachine) is that the larger models and armies get, the more daunting and intimidating it gets. You feel as if you're about to commit to something that you won't feel the full benefit of for a while. Games Workshop is especially bad at this of course, you need to sink a good £70 or so in before you can play, and this seems a bit like Apocalypse for HoMachine. Plus, I understand they have quite a few expansions/system updates out already for MkII, which is doubly daunting for people wanting to get in as you need to get the Rulebook, then the Army Book, then Wrath and Dominion and Battle Engines and now this before you can get the 'full' experience, as it were. I mean, I have a Khador starter set, but the more you show me I need to collect the more I a: don't know where to start and b: don't feel up to it - that's a lot of time and money invested there, and I don't feel I'd get enough enjoyment out of it for it to be worth it, or at least - there are more effective alternatives I'm already partaking in.
Just wanna put it out there.

id like to point out that the above statements can be pretty much applied to 40k or Fantasy as well and doubly so.

What new players have to understand about Warmachine/Hordes is that you don't need EVERYTHING. Far from it. I would even go as far as say that trying to get everything at the start will handicap you. Pick a caster/lock/playstyle and get what you need to support that. Everything else is gravy. You DONT need new toys. You need the RIGHT toys. The question now is, are colossals the right toy for you?

example: Right now Im debating whether Conquest will be a good fit for pSorscha and eSorscha(my only Khador casters). I know I dont have his full stats right now but assuming I can play Conquest in 35-50 point games without losing too much I can still make a few guesses. I know for sure having Conquest on the table will affect pSorscha's feat turn significantly (huge base blocking LOS). All other signs so far also point out that Conquest may not fit my caster's style. If the final stats confirm it then I wont buy it.

The "full" experience in Warmachine/Hordes is not about the new unit/kid on the block. You don't have to buy them but you will need to learn how to take them down. The full experience always culminates on the table. The "full" experience also differs depending on what pointage you choose to play at. Each point level has a different dynamic and feel to it that can only be truly understood by playing.

With the expansions out right now I can tell ya that the lists I had 6 months ago can still go toe to toe with whatever is the new flavor out there. Looking at the new Colossals, I really don't see my lists changing much if at all. Why? Because from the beginning my lists have always had problems with high armor models anyway. I dont need to destroy the new big toys but I know Ill have to find a way around it or tie it down somehow. With the way the game is designed Im sure this is going to be possible. It all boils down to execution.

Commisar Wolfie wrote:Personally I'm really looking forward to the new models. For the battle engines just don't do anything. Sure I guess they are nice looking and all that but I really couldn't care less about them.

What do you mean they don't do things?

If you mean aesthetically, that's subjective. I rather like how the
battle engines tend to be giant support models whereas the Colossals
will be more like giant freakin' hammers.

I think they're distinct enough... I would have Really liked to be able to somehow boost the troll BE, but it's not to be. I'm just glad they gave us a teaser for the troll "colossal equivalent" at the end of the video . Given that our BE is a war wagon, a giant troll (or maybe a giant troll pulling/carrying something??) would be very different and they both have a place in the army, I think

The big complaint I'm hearing is Mulg v. Troll Colossal. Whatever.

I guess I don't get how seeing a Colossal will be intimidating to new players who are playing a game about giant steam robots.

In another light, everytime I play a new enemy unit/beast/etc my inner child gets intimidated because I don't know how to kill it. yet.

In the end, no more scary than anything else.

RiTides wrote:I think they're distinct enough... I would have Really liked to be able to somehow boost the troll BE, but it's not to be.

Tell you what, we'll boost your troll wagon and in trade I get a boosted Wraith Engine. Fair?

Can't the wraith engine use soul tokens to boost stuff?

Yeah, that's what I mean... several Hordes BE's got ways to boost via tokens or the like... I just want to be able to boost to hit, once with the lackluster troll RAT...

Wasn't trying to whine, though I really like our BE!

Sorry by doesn't do anything I meant it doesn't do anything for me. Personaly it looks nice and all but I just don't have a huge desire to get one. But the colossal on the other hand has me chompin at the bit for it. I just persoanly like the look of it more thats all.

Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way- seems like the Colossals have hit the nail on the head more than the battle engines... I just think trolls got the best battle engine and I'm psyched for it coming out this month

Awesome stuff. Although all I can think of right now is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SqC_m3yUDU

*Considers painting eGaspy as Zeus Liam Neeson*

RiTides wrote:Yeah, that's what I mean... several Hordes BE's got ways to boost via tokens or the like... I just want to be able to boost to hit, once with the lackluster troll RAT...

Wasn't trying to whine, though I really like our BE!

I'm okay with not getting a boost for such a game breaking ability. You
still get to hit people with the splash damage...

RuneGrey wrote:Personally I'm just waiting for that squad of Exemplar Errants to slam into my Arcane Shielded Stormwall and bounce off, realizing that their puny POW 9 weapon master attacks aren't even going to cripple a couple systems, let alone destroy it. Or when the Bane Thralls taste the Menoth Colossal's rockets and flamethrowers as they struggle to get into charge range, only to realize that their best efforts aren't going to be able to destroy it...

I don't see how things can't still kill it. Part of their design is that you are not required to use colossals to kill colossals. That said, some things will take ore time, and very few things can take them down on their own (right now the math seems to favor Mulg, Bronzeback Titans, fully tricked-out Warpwolfs dog-piling it, and such). Often combinations that require specific warlocks or pretty resource-intensive (Mulg takes, I believe, takes at least a light to get the damage buff rolling).

That said also, it should also be taken into account that enough application of Parasite, Dark Shroud and charging Weaponmasters will take them down. Bane Thralls and Errants aren't supposed to suddenly stop mattering against htese things. These things, isntead, will likely be able to weather more turns of it than they could before.

As a random note, I doubt they'll actually have much higher ARM than a standard warjack. I see them being ARM 18-20, just with a bamillion wounds that means you have to invest as much into killing it in one go as it probably cost.

RuneGrey wrote:Hell. Just having something with SO MUCH BEEF that 5 weapon master infantry won't explode it in one round makes me happy. The fact that the models look *amazing* so far is just an added bonus.

I think, assuming ARM 20 max, Asphyxious with five Thralls can at least hurt them pretty bad still. Again, protecting them shouldn't be something you don't have to worry about.

And stuff.

Well the merc card showed 58 damage and mercs tend to be on the lighter side of armor and damage. TBH I'm a little scared that Khador may have the max 72 damage...

Blaque wrote:I don't see how things can't still kill it. Part of their design is that you are not required to use colossals to kill colossals. That said, some things will take ore time, and very few things can take them down on their own (right now the math seems to favor Mulg, Bronzeback Titans, fully tricked-out Warpwolfs dog-piling it, and such). Often combinations that require specific warlocks or pretty resource-intensive (Mulg takes, I believe, takes at least a light to get the damage buff rolling).

That said also, it should also be taken into account that enough application of Parasite, Dark Shroud and charging Weaponmasters will take them down. Bane Thralls and Errants aren't supposed to suddenly stop mattering against htese things. These things, isntead, will likely be able to weather more turns of it than they could before.

As a random note, I doubt they'll actually have much higher ARM than a standard warjack. I see them being ARM 18-20, just with a bamillion wounds that means you have to invest as much into killing it in one go as it probably cost.
*snip*
And stuff.

Of course - I figure that these things will still work, but I'll confess that I'm always someone who wants to see more warjacks on the table - and something that infantry will bounce off of means that you will see more jacks in a rock paper scissors type effect. In the end the main defenses will probably be their huge number of boxes and whatever special defenses the colossals themselves have. The Storm Strider and AFG are examples of excellent defensive tech that might show up on these units, and I'll be fairly happy if we see something that makes them a bit harder to take down.

My problem is when that same 8 point unit with warjack support can wipe out a Colossal with the same ease that they do a current warjack, which does nothing to change the fairly troop heavy meta we're seeing right now in places. I'd rather be facing off against 2 or 3 jacks than yet another weapon master swarm, and I hope that they take the opportunity to push things in that direction with the Colossals. For your example, Parasite + Bane Thralls + Dene feat / scything touch is straight dice against ARM 18 on 4 dice, which means that you need to get 6-7 thralls on the base to get a very high chance of getting a 1 turn kill. Not a big deal against a 7-10 point jack or a 9 point battle engine, but against a huge base its much easier to load up that many models.

Keep in mind, 'can kill with stuff from Prime' does not mean 'can kill with troops' - the whole argument for 'its a game' still is in effect, but for something the size of these colossals I'd prefer to see a need for warjacks / warbeasts to take them down rather than a bunch of guys with swords and axes. But that's just personal preference - I was hoping for the same with battle engines, and while they did turn into fairly potent anti-infantry models overall, they didn't severely change the meta and were honestly a bit of a wash as general use models except for the Strider, especially with their commanding price tags.

Unfortunately, I'm looking at weapon master infantry being better against these things than heavy warjacks :/

For instance (picked only because they're considered heavy hitters):

A Stormclad (assuming 19 ARM, a poor DEF, and 3.5 per die) will, fully loaded, with a free charge (from some aid), get through 10.5+3(7)= 31.5 health

Bane Thralls (assuming the same, w/o focus and they don't need the charge to be free) will get through x(8), where X is the number of banes, meaning the damage starts getting in the Banes' favor when 4 make contact.

This means that a 10-pt heavy, assuming average circumstances and no buffs/debuffs, will do about half damage to one of these monsters (based on size, etc. about what I'd expect: 2 fully loaded melee heavies against one super dude seems like a fair fight-- a little on the easy to kill side, but you've got to make it so something other than other giants can take it down.

…While about the same number of points of scary skeletons wielding axes * can take one out completely

While weapon masters have always done a lot to high health pieces, having bigger-based and theoretically super-tough super killy robots exemplifies this problem tenfold**

In short, I agree, RuneGrey, WTF?

*you'd need fewer than all of them to do it, but some will die on the way over...

** I'm sorry, but did anyone else cringe at the poor english they mustered for their promotional video? I'm really tired of "professional" pieces where people seem like they were never taught the difference between "there" and "they're," and what commas and apostrophes do... And then there's this bizarre new deal where quotation marks emphasize things? (Okay, I'm done)

The issue is that, things that stop the Weaponmasters will sotp the warjacks. As shown above, a Stormclad already has issues doing the job unless it has a buff (Stryker2 and Nemo2 can crank it's damage up about 10 more boxes worth, but still not doing the job, really). If you make it too hard for infantry to ding it, it becomes impossible for others to ding it. And it can lead to arms-race issues of them fighting one-another being the sure fire way to kill them.

Right now an issue, to me, is that warjacks really have some flawed mechanics to them that werent' fully addressed in MkII (in part this is because their insistance of not doing them with Hordes I think). Warjacks are too ineffecient an investment of resources osmetimes.

That said, my guess is we'll see a lot of these colossals being destroyed by combinations of warjacks and infantry mroe than anything. Knights Exemplar can't probably scrap it, but them and a Reckoner or the Avatar helping-out probably do the trick, which is probably the actual goal of these.

And stuff.

Blaque wrote:The issue is that, things that stop the Weaponmasters will sotp the warjacks. As shown above, a Stormclad already has issues doing the job unless it has a buff (Stryker2 and Nemo2 can crank it's damage up about 10 more boxes worth, but still not doing the job, really). If you make it too hard for infantry to ding it, it becomes impossible for others to ding it. And it can lead to arms-race issues of them fighting one-another being the sure fire way to kill them.

Right now an issue, to me, is that warjacks really have some flawed mechanics to them that werent' fully addressed in MkII (in part this is because their insistance of not doing them with Hordes I think). Warjacks are too ineffecient an investment of resources osmetimes.

That said, my guess is we'll see a lot of these colossals being destroyed by combinations of warjacks and infantry mroe than anything. Knights Exemplar can't probably scrap it, but them and a Reckoner or the Avatar helping-out probably do the trick, which is probably the actual goal of these.

And stuff.

Keep in mind what you're saying though: 'A' Stormclad.

That's half the points investment of the Colossal attacking it in one turn - I'd hope that it couldn't do the job. A 10 point jack wrecking a 20 point super robot in one turn, even with a full focus load? The difference is that the cheaper bane thrall unit will probably get the job done with an equal amount of warcaster focus support, barring some sort of defensive ability that helps to protect the Colossal from them. 2 Stormclads should have a fair shot at doing it, though.

My hope is they have something like reverse decapitate - damage that small based models do over armor is halved. It allows troops to ding them, as you said, without allowing a wrecking ball unit to inflict fatal damage all by itself. You don't need to make them immune to troops to make them a good counter and to make it so that people want more warjacks to get the job done. You don't need to make dramatic changes, but I think that some adjustment of the power of infantry against everything is warranted at this point.

Warjack power and return for point of focus only begins to become appealing when the very high power of their weapons becomes a factor. Right now armor and defense do not have enough potency to actually encourage the use of warjacks because everything dies to weapon master infantry on the charge without too much trouble. The only time we're going to see warjacks actually become really useful is if you can add focus the way Hordes removes fury, or if they actually jump armor values to the ~22-23 range, where even POW 12 Weapon Masters will only be doing 1 or 2 points of damage on average, but a boosting jack can still knock out a column per attack with their high POW weapons.

Simply put, I don't think its efficiency as much as the huge bias towards offensive power rather than defensive power. It may also be that it's something of a moot point if the ranged capabilities of the Colossals is very impressive - you don't get charges off on something in the back line without going through the rest of the army. But I still hope that we see an end to the dominance of weapon masters with the Colossals released - it's my fond hope for this next release.

I'd argue that the Stormclad:Colossal ratio is about right. 2 pieces that are half as expensive should be able to take one down, and it should be able to do a pretty good job taking them down, too.

In my opinion, the problem isn't warjacks, but the fact that half that cost in weapon masters (Knights Exemplar or Bane Thralls, for instance) can get the job done.

It would be a huge shift in the game, but I'd want to experiment with what it would be like if weapon master was +D3 or +2 damage (or, alternatively, having some sort of penalty against damaging jacks and beasts), rather than the full +D6 (I'm sorry, but I have a problem with a Bane Thrall, regardless of how cool it is, averaging as much damage as a medium-weight Heavy and more damage than most Lights in the game.

There's only a "problem" if you take two groups of models of equal point values, and one group can't take out the other group when used as intended (assuming one group wasn't designed to be weak against the other group). That's why there's a point system, to determine roughly equal groupings of models.

So if if two units of Bane Thralls vs. one Colossal comes down to whoever gets into position and attacks first, that's great. Having the equivalent of thresher and super-trample should help ensure that the Colossal gives the Bane Thralls an even fight.

Makes me want squel alittle bit.

Does anyone know what the menoth one is called (it may have been mentioned already) or what Any of its weapons are?

Adjudicator. It's apparently got a couple of flame throwers, two open fists, and shoulder mounted rocket batteries.

It's called the Judicator, and it appears to have two large rocket batteries and two heavy flamethrowers.

Cool thanks (want one soo much)
Can't wait to blast my friends weak army away with it
Has the cost been mentioned in pounds?

They're more complex than the Battle Engines, and will be worth more points than them, so, considering those are $85 (53£), I'd probably guess closer to 60-70£

To clarify, though, AFAIK, no prices have been announced

Laughing Man wrote:Adjudicator. It's apparently got a couple of flame throwers, two open fists, and shoulder mounted rocket batteries.

It's Judicator, not Adjudicator.

Doug Seacat wrote:In the hopes of putting a quick end to the use of the wrong word before it becomes too habitual, I wanted to note that the Protectorate colossal is a "Judicator" not an "Adjudicator."

The Stormclad example didn't get to the hilarious part yet.

Swing. Lightning!

Stormguard. Swing. Lightning!

Im excited for these.

They wont be required.. i dont get all the fuss.

A 50pt army without a collossus wil be just as good as a 50pt army with one...


I have a feeling their defense will be low low, and their armor will be 18-20.

Ill still send in Avatar and a Reckoner and wreck one in a turn. Not to worried.


But from that picture of the Menoth one. I am setting aside the $$ for it right when it comes out, if it looks anything close to that.

Spyder68 wrote:A 50pt army without a collossus wil be just as good as a 50pt army with one...

I'm gonna be conservative and say that an army without a colossus may actually be better due to a larger variety of options to do with the points. But, of course, we'll see when they actually get released and hit the field.

That said, can't wait to field the Merc one with Magnus, but I'll need to buy some Steelheads as my Merc options that aren't available only to Magnus Themes(ie. things not Idrians or "loyalist" Cygnarans) is pretty low.

Spyder68 wrote:Im excited for these.

They wont be required.. i dont get all the fuss.

A 50pt army without a collossus wil be just as good as a 50pt army with one...


I have a feeling their defense will be low low, and their armor will be 18-20.

Ill still send in Avatar and a Reckoner and wreck one in a turn. Not to worried.


But from that picture of the Menoth one. I am setting aside the $$ for it right when it comes out, if it looks anything close to that.

I think they will pretty much be sticking to faction stat lines. Cryx will still be a glass cannon, Khador will be neigh invulnerable, but slow as all hell.

I just can't wait for what Horde will get.... I want mah dragon.

I would Love a Dragon for Legion..

But i dont see them ever getting one :(

Its going to be some large Carnivean based Creature with my luck.

I'd still love that. Huge dragonspawn? Yes please.

As long as it's not one of the Cthulu brothers, I hate those things.

Legion Colossus would probably require multiple warlock ex-sanguinations. I approve.

Murder bethayne and her pet for it. Their ugly anyway, and I don't like her.

malfred wrote:Legion Colossus would probably require multiple warlock ex-sanguinations. I approve.

i picture them bleeding out that one male lock, then sticking his althame in a new body, rinse repeat as long as they got bodies

Soladrin wrote:Murder bethayne and her pet for it. Their ugly anyway, and I don't like her.

I <3 Bethayne and Belphegor

Not even gonna buy them

malfred wrote:Legion Colossus would probably require multiple warlock ex-sanguinations. I approve.

Well, they do have 'Greater' Spawning Buckets that they only need the warlock to bleed a bit into, and then it converts all the other material into the beast. This one will probably be the single biggest spawning bucket ever.

Which gives the image of the legion colossal beast rising up out of a volcano of blood...

Couldn't this be what Vayl was working on with her new spawning vessels?

All I know is that I neeeed the Stormwall and really want the Judicator. And heaven knows what other goodies will be in the book.

Well, I'll have a lot of eBay sales to make to cover those costs. I'm betting on +/-15 from the $100 mark each. Which isn't really all that bad when you compare it to some of the FW Super Heavies that look great but nobody wants to play against.

I REALLY hope they don't make the WoldWrath for Orboros. I play Orboros for the predatory animal theme that it has going on, not because I want to play around with stone golems (which really aren't they different to me than 'jacks).

I'd like to see a massive burrowing serpent, or hell a giant wolf ala princess mononoke. ANYTHING besides another golem.

malfred wrote:Legion Colossus would probably require multiple warlock ex-sanguinations. I approve.

Well with all the female warlocks, you can pretty much get a colossus once a month.

Kurgash wrote:

malfred wrote:Legion Colossus would probably require multiple warlock ex-sanguinations. I approve.

Well with all the female warlocks, you can pretty much get a colossus once a month.

I just realised the menoth one will be affected by Amon's spells and feat.

Yup!

Even if theyre not warjack as they are still models in his battle group.

And if they are considered warjacks for being affected by spells, 15 point mangled metal=Reznik+menoth colossal

That would be amazing!
So any ideas what the power attacks are?

some sort of slam from a standing start and a thresher like attack that only targets those in front left or right arc. (this is rumour of course)

Colossal thresher?
Wow

Add in that they have reach as standard and yep, lots of things will die.

BTNeophyte wrote:And if they are considered warjacks for being affected by spells, 15 point mangled metal=Reznik+menoth colossal

Iron Aggression would be cool, but extra movement wouldn't work. NQ
already said that extra movement abilities won't work for colossals. I think
that means stuff like Witch Hound and Perdition won't work, but stuff
like Mobility will (since it adjusts their movement rather than gives them
an additional move or place).

Everything I've heard so far is that hey are in fact Warjacks and count as such, and that they will be pointed such that you'll usually be able to take one with your caster in 15pt Mangled Metal.

The Thresher and Slam power attacks were stated somewhere official, though I forget where. I think it was the video? Will be interesting with the Cryx one as those tenticles likely give it a 4" Reach rather than the standard 2", but that's mere supposition and not known.

I wonder if they count as "Non character Warjacks" for Epic Casters to bond with? Imagine it bonding with eHaley, gaining 2" of movement and extra focus. Mmmm, tasty.

I'll bet anything that they won't, but it could make for some scary-assed combos.

These kinda disappoint me... they are just supersized warjacks... the Khadoran one is particularly uninspired... its basically an extra-large behemoth (as if it wasn't large enough already), more or less reminds me of the battle engine really...

If they're FA2 doesn't that mean they aren't characters?

Right. They're non-characters.

Also, we don't know if they can be bonded yet.

chaos0xomega wrote:These kinda disappoint me... they are just supersized warjacks...

Yes. And?

Perhaps he just needs to think about it some more:
http://www.collectedcurios.com/sequentialart.php?s=281

I stand by the girls comment in the last panel

So, since this is in the Colossals book, I'll just leave this here.

Fellow Cryxian generals, players, and overall ne'er-do-wells... may I introduce Asphyxious the Hellbringer!

Didnt realize that the game was crossing over with Soul Calibur >.>

I'm still hoping for Epic Karchev

Hm... Karchev was captured by Cryx in the last book, right?

Imagine Cryx getting Karchev's epic form.

Bwahaha.

Also, does anyone else see what I see in that picture of Gaspy? He's said some sort of cheesy one liner, and even his sword is rolling it's... eye.

That's Daemortus, former boss of Asphyxious. His current epic form has that as his pole arm, eye and all. Looks like he thought it was too long and shortened it into a sword. Otherwise he looks the same as he does now, and I don't see any special side kicks in that picture off hand.

Sooo, Cryx is getting a muthafrakking kraken, Menoth a walking missile-launching cathedral, and Khador yet another incarnation of their "Bigger is better" motto in all its elegant simplicity. Not gonna help me pick a faction, but I like what I see !
I liked the video, it's nice to hear the designers' thoughts about their new baby.

infinite_array wrote:Also, does anyone else see what I see in that picture of Gaspy? He's said some sort of cheesy one liner, and even his sword is rolling it's... eye.

... And now I'm picturing them as a manzai-like comedy duo, with the sword as the straight one being forced to endure Gaspy's puns and antics

I'm really gettin sick of the 'bigger is better' bit from Khador. When the game first started out Khador was supposed to be ice-themed and they have steadily moved further and further away from that concept...

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm really gettin sick of the 'bigger is better' bit from Khador. When the game first started out Khador was supposed to be ice-themed and they have steadily moved further and further away from that concept...

Are they only supposed to be ice themed?

I agree in that they're the faction with the least present elemental theme, but that means they distinguish themselves by other means (relentless winters shaping them towards a general philosophy of brutal efficiency). In comparison, one may say Cygnarans are close to overdoing it.

No, but show me where all the ice is? Compare Khadors Ice to Menoths Fire, Cryx's Corrision, and Cygnars Lightning, and the theme is virtually non-existant. Its like they realized that being able to spam Critical Freeze was far too powerful or something, so instead Khador would be the straightforward "smash face and beat them with a stick" faction.

chaos0xomega wrote:No, but show me where all the ice is? Compare Khadors Ice to Menoths Fire, Cryx's Corrision, and Cygnars Lightning, and the theme is virtually non-existant. Its like they realized that being able to spam Critical Freeze was far too powerful or something, so instead Khador would be the straightforward "smash face and beat them with a stick" faction.

Because they are frosty soldiers of a rugged nature.

I mean, Corrosion as a theme doesn't always work for Cryx unless you think in
terms of debuffs and abilities that slowly weaken you.

Menoth's fire doesn't work for them all the time unless you also consider
they're anti-magical puritanical nature.

Cygnar's lightning is everpresent in their storm dudes, but it's also thematic
to their advanced mechanical natures.

Hyd wrote:

infinite_array wrote:Also, does anyone else see what I see in that picture of Gaspy? He's said some sort of cheesy one liner, and even his sword is rolling it's... eye.

... And now I'm picturing them as a manzai-like comedy duo, with the sword as the straight one being forced to endure Gaspy's puns and antics

Gaspy: "Say goodnight, Daemortus"

D: "Goodnight, Daemortus."

(OKay, so I am old enough that George Burns and Gracie Allen was the first thing that came to mind.)

chaos0xomega wrote:Didnt realize that the game was crossing over with Soul Calibur >.>

I'm still hoping for Epic Karchev

Don't hold your breath, they already said only one 'Caster per faction in the book(3pics for the old main 4, new Rhulic for Mercs, and eVyros for Ret).

I thought I heard two per faction, one epic, one epic epic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, here's your epic Karchev;

Any one know about the menoth epic epic?
I've heard its mounted kreos.
Buy I've also heard sevvy.

So did you guys see the price on the cygnar colossal? $135! Ouch. almost a 70% increase in cost over battle engines...ugh.

origarmi chicken wrote:Any one know about the menoth epic epic?
I've heard its mounted kreos.
Buy I've also heard sevvy.

It's mounted Kreoss. Confirmed at Templecon.

Kevin949 wrote:So did you guys see the price on the cygnar colossal? $135! Ouch. almost a 70% increase in cost over battle engines...ugh.

Seems alright to me. I was expecting them to run $150.

Aduro wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So did you guys see the price on the cygnar colossal? $135! Ouch. almost a 70% increase in cost over battle engines...ugh.

Seems alright to me. I was expecting them to run $150.

Honestly, I wasn't expecting them to be much more than the battle engines. And even then, I thought those were...pricey. Though I was glad I got mine for much cheaper (thank you amazon).

Couple of the battle engines are apparently $95 now. And I think the Stormwall itsellf probably hast twice as much stuff to it than the Throne of Everblight, as I see it. We also don't know if those little pod dealies are adding a good chunk to it.

PP also does price a bit around, "How many are people acutally going to buy of these?" a bit. I think they think they will be probably something folks only get one of most times, even though they are FA: 2.

And stuff.

Well they won't be released until July, so if you put $1 dollar a day into a jar, you will be able to afford it.

Blaque wrote:Couple of the battle engines are apparently $95 now. And I think the Stormwall itsellf probably hast twice as much stuff to it than the Throne of Everblight, as I see it. We also don't know if those little pod dealies are adding a good chunk to it.

PP also does price a bit around, "How many are people acutally going to buy of these?" a bit. I think they think they will be probably something folks only get one of most times, even though they are FA: 2.

And stuff.

Ya, I saw that the legion battle engine was 95 (70 on amazon) which I thought was crazy too, for how maligned they are. And I get that PP prices around how much you'll buy of them and all that, it's still a lot of money. One of the main reasons I never got around to buying a pylon for my necrons, I couldn't justify the cost and they were very situationally used. While the colossals are seemingly awesome from what it sounds like so far, I'm betting they're going to be costly in points as well (there's just no way I see these costing less than a death jack, let alone a seether) so I see them falling into the niche of situational use as well. Obviously don't know until they're out, and I am still going to be buying one...they're just 50 bucks more than I expected them to be.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:Well they won't be released until July, so if you put $1 dollar a day into a jar, you will be able to afford it.

Easier said then done when you have a family to care for first.

This is what credit cards are for.

Kevin949 wrote:Ya, I saw that the legion battle engine was 95 (70 on amazon) which I thought was crazy too, for how maligned they are. And I get that PP prices around how much you'll buy of them and all that, it's still a lot of money. One of the main reasons I never got around to buying a pylon for my necrons, I couldn't justify the cost and they were very situationally used. While the colossals are seemingly awesome from what it sounds like so far, I'm betting they're going to be costly in points as well (there's just no way I see these costing less than a death jack, let alone a seether) so I see them falling into the niche of situational use as well. Obviously don't know until they're out, and I am still going to be buying one...they're just 50 bucks more than I expected them to be.

They fill the 18-20 point bracket, according to Privateer.

Thoughts on that Retribution colossal shown on blue print? Doesn't look too appetizing.....unless it can shoot a giant energy force ball between its shoulders (Physics would be The Retribution's theme?).

I often base my spending on the amount of enjoyment I will get out of the building/painting the model. I've had a blast painting my Cygnar Storm Strider, or as my wife calls it, the disco ball. With the Stormwall kit being that much more complex in the building/painting I'm sure it will be well worth the money, at least for me.

Avro wrote:Thoughts on that Retribution colossal shown on blue print? Doesn't look too appetizing.....unless it can shoot a giant energy force ball between its shoulders (Physics would be The Retribution's theme?).

I thought the look of theirs was awesome! Plus Vyros on a HORSE.
I am painting him as an African American and free handing the old spice symbol on him somewhere

theQuanz wrote:

Avro wrote:Thoughts on that Retribution colossal shown on blue print? Doesn't look too appetizing.....unless it can shoot a giant energy force ball between its shoulders (Physics would be The Retribution's theme?).

I thought the look of theirs was awesome! Plus Vyros on a HORSE.
I am painting him as an African American and free handing the old spice symbol on him somewhere

Vyros on a horse!?



The table will become messy..............

I'm not very good at these but...

theQuanz wrote:I am painting him as an African American and free handing the old spice symbol on him somewhere

Hello, gamers, look at your warcaster, now back to me, now back at your warcaster, now back to me.
Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped using human magicks and switched to Retribution of Scyrah, he could be awesome like he’s me.

Look down, back up, where are you?
You’re on a battle engine with the warcaster your warcaster could be like.

What’s in your hand, back at me.
I have it, it’s a bus ticket to your FLGS.

Look again, the ticket is now new Ret models.
Anything is possible when you switch to Retribution of Scyrah and play like you got a pair.

I’m on a horse.

Brill ^^

I don't think I will be getting one any time soon. If I do, though, I'm going to convert it to the max. Freehand everywhere and airbrushing too. Still, I think the Wraith Engine sounds a lot more, well, me.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:
I’m on a horse.

Ohmylawd that was amazing. Hope I didn't wake up the flatmates.

Kreoss on a Horse, so now I can make myself a Menoth Cavalry force if I wanted to.

Time to find some alternative heads wearing stetsons.........

This may be old news, but so far noone has mentioned it yet so I might as well. I was thumbing through March's No Quarter, and in the interview regarding the Colossals, the last paragraph listed the Hordes colossals.

Orboros - Woldwrath
Skorne - Mammoth
Legion - Archangel
Trollblood - Mountain King

Considering I REALLY didn't want to see another Wold, this gives me quite the sad.

Necroshea wrote:This may be old news, but so far noone has mentioned it yet so I might as well. I was thumbing through March's No Quarter, and in the interview regarding the Colossals, the last paragraph listed the Hordes colossals.

Orboros - Woldwrath
Skorne - Mammoth
Legion - Archangel
Trollblood - Mountain King

Considering I REALLY didn't want to see another Wold, this gives me quite the sad.

I am more interested with who the casters the hordes factions are getting for colossals.

btemple0 wrote:

Necroshea wrote:This may be old news, but so far noone has mentioned it yet so I might as well. I was thumbing through March's No Quarter, and in the interview regarding the Colossals, the last paragraph listed the Hordes colossals.

Orboros - Woldwrath
Skorne - Mammoth
Legion - Archangel
Trollblood - Mountain King

Considering I REALLY didn't want to see another Wold, this gives me quite the sad.

I am more interested with who the casters the hordes factions are getting for colossals.

Considering Baldur is kinda sorta nearly dead, I hope they give him one of those legendary mantles I heard circulating the rumor mill. Call him Baldur, Avatar of the Devourer

That would be super fast turn around since he just went Epic in the last book.

Lyith3 has been confirmed. Other than that it's all unknown.