What race do you think will become the most powerful race in the 40k universe i will keep my choice until the end after i have read all your responses

Well the Imperium is pretty powerful as it stands, fluff wise.

Currently? The Imperium. In history? The C'tan. In the future? If Chaos counts then Chaos.

Chaos and the Imperium are tied together, and when humanity, the weaker of the two, dies, Chaos is dead as well.

By that, the C'tan are the most powerful. Maybe the Enslavers are next after them, but the C'tan are definitely the most powerful.

If the Orks ever unite, the galaxy is screwed, and they may be able to kill the C'tan.

The current galactic powerhouse is the Imperium, duh. If the Emperor dies, Chaos will incinerate the galaxy before burning out. Afterwards, Orks will probably be the only ones left standing.

If the Emperor is reborn though, Mankind will remain ascendant and grow more powerful than the ancient Eldar...

The oldcrons and Tyranids were really the only civilization capable of rivaling the Imperium. Now it's just the Tyranids since the Newcrons are fragmented/in-fighting/localized threats.

On another note:

Other galaxies contain Orks. Keep that in mind when talking about the most powerful race in the universe.

Hmmm... In the universe? Hard to say... (I'm tempted to troll Tau)

I'd say from the little I do know it would be orks if they ever got their act together but otherwise, C'tan. Eat stars, spawn blackholes, rip their way into the Webway, send things back to before time existed, imprint the fear of death into all species (minus orks), yeah. Definitely C'tan.

Tyranids

Orks then, unless the Emperor comes back.

Other galaxies? Where does it mention that in the fluff?

My vote is on the IoM, as is anyway. If the Imperium goes down, so does Chaos. I would say then after us humans, the Tau will start the United Federation of Planets and become powerful.

A Musketeer wrote:Other galaxies? Where does it mention that in the fluff?

My vote is on the IoM, as is anyway. If the Imperium goes down, so does Chaos. I would say then after us humans, the Tau will start the United Federation of Planets and become powerful.

If they can take on Tyranids and Orks by themselves. Without the Imperium, I think I'll go green, pick up an axe, and shout WAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Chowderhead wrote:On another note:

Other galaxies contain Orks. Keep that in mind when talking about the most powerful race in the universe.

This is never confirmed. It is confirmed however that no matter where mankind has explored in the Galaxy, Orks have been encountered. The Imperium has never been in any contact with an outside galaxy, the spaces between galaxy's are incomprehensibly vast even for Warp Travel.

Orks really aren't a functioning or unified society though. Just fragment warbands and mini-empires. It limits their potential massively.

While there are other galaxies they are just way to far away. and i thought the tyranids were a extra galactic race.

but i think the Imperium is the most powerful generally.

The orks are the best IMO. You just can't beat them.

CuddlySquig wrote:The orks are the best IMO. You just can't beat them.

No arguments there, my friend.

Orks if they united
Potentially the Tyranids if all their assets arrive in the Milky Way
Currently the Imperium I think

I'd love to see an Ork/Tyranid showdown: all the Orks in a giant Waaagh vs. all Tyranid fleets

Currently, The Imperium of Man

Future? I'd say Tyranids, for the same reason as above, we have only encountered the vanguard, the real hive fleet is still on the way.

It's gotta be the Tau.

Waaagh. Endless waaagh. Go orks.

Coolyo294 wrote:It's gotta be the Tau.

You're trolling right?

Tadashi wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:It's gotta be the Tau.

You're trolling right?

Nope. The Tau are the bestest army ever!!!1!

The Ctan, before they were all shattered. Now, not so much.

Why do people keep saying the IOM? They're losing


Orks, for me, i think. They are the most numerous, most adaptable and most self sufficient. They don't have to be an ork superpower with all orks united to still be the most powerful, but if they did...WAAGH indeed

Coolyo294 wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:It's gotta be the Tau.

You're trolling right?

Nope. The Tau are the bestest army ever!!!1!

Orks are the most successful race in galactic history.

Ascalam wrote:Why do people keep saying the IOM? They're losing

To multiple threats across the entire galaxy, not any one power.

The Orks have the potential to be the most powerful, but at the moment they are not. Otherwise, by that logic, the Necrons are more powerful than the Imperium, by virtue of having more Tomb Worlds than the IoM does planets.

Also, Orks have not been encountered in multiple galaxies, that is fanwank based on a failure of reading comprehension, honestly.

In a one-on-one fight, any other faction in 40k would be crushed by the Imperium's full might.

The IoM is the most powerful. They're losing, slowly, gradually being worn down by... well, everybody. They're still the dominant force in the galaxy.

Orks would be the most powerful, if they stopped their infighting, division, and poor organization--that is, if they stopped being orks. They'll never make an empire that lasts for millennia. (They also wouldn't want to, for the most part.)

Chaos has its gods, but they're limited outside of the Warp. For all their power, they keep on being turned aside time and time again. Might be shifting with the Thirteenth Black Crusade, but that's after ten thousand years of trying.

Langston128 wrote:What race do you think will become the most powerful race in the 40k universe i will keep my choice until the end after i have read all your responses

The ARMS race.

Imperium. Although if us Space Elfs become more mighty...

Orks have never lost.

Orks.

Surtur wrote:Orks have never lost.

They lose battles, but in the eternal war of 40k, the Orks will never lose.

The enslavers. Every Race. Rightfully fears them.
The C'tan are also pretty bad. But Enslavers are worse. Warp Beings man they make every race look bad.

Asherian Command wrote:The enslavers. Every Race. Rightfully fears them.
The C'tan are also pretty bad. But Enslavers are worse. Warp Beings man they make every race look bad.

The Enslavers were never a threat to the C'tan, not in the old or the new lore.

Orks are not united because there isn't an enemy worth uniting up for, duh.

Same reason Gork and Mork haven't gotten around to stompin' the bawling chaos gods right-flat, they can't be bothered to.

rabidaskal wrote:Orks are not united because there isn't an enemy worth uniting up for, duh.

Same reason Gork and Mork haven't gotten around to stompin' the bawling chaos gods right-flat, they can't be bothered to.

This lad knows wot's wot I say!

Currently it is Mankind, but that might change in the future.

Orks - even if they are widespread they are not united.
Eldar - they are dying race, nuff said.
Dark Eldar - same as Eldar but a bit different.
Daemons - even if powerful as tanks or Titans they can't exist in our universe for long.
Tau - ???, nothing to do here.
Necrons - even if they have powerful technology they are not united. So same as Orks but instead of numbers having technology o their side.
Tyranids - this is a race that is very close to the top. But without more info on them then 3 major fleets and several smaller ones we can't say anything for sure.
Enslavers - even as powerful as they are they can be beat. Inquisition regularly fights against them and destroy them.

Makind is doomed to slow decline with so many enemies around her. Only if the Emperor returns can they have any hope of surviving in the future.

Man is having his time in the sun, but it's much past his prime and he will fall. The necrons however, I see possibly reestablishing they're empire and according to fluff it is prophesied that they will reverse bio transference and once more be flesh.

Tadashi wrote:

Surtur wrote:Orks have never lost.

They lose battles, but in the eternal war of 40k, the Orks will never lose.

Bro. Orks never even lose battles.

"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't niether, cos we can come back for anuver go see!"

Sovspot wrote:
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't niether, cos we can come back for anuver go see!"

Still sounds like defeat and running away to me

Dat's cos you'z a puny humie see.

Orks simply because they don't fight for survival like other races. Other races are merely clinging to exist while orks rule the galaxy.

War in Heaven ended when the enslavers came. Old ones died/went missing. Necrons hide by going to hybernation. Orks took over the galaxy.

Just to kill Ghargull Blackfang legions of Horus, Mortarion and Dorn were needed in addition to 1000 custodians and emprah.

Over 10 000 marines were needed to slow down Ghazkull's forces.

Tuska's (most badass ork name http://translate.google.fi/?hl=fi&tab=wT#fi|en|tuska ) small-ish WAAAGH! slaghtered through seven deamon worlds before finding himself at home. IoM defeated deamon worlds:...

Hivefleet only managed get into stalemate with one ork planet.

Orks are figthing everything including themselves and they still cannot be beaten.

Orks = Entropy. The universe flows towards entropy as its resting state...duh...simple physics. Orks win

Chaos Daemons, you can't kill them only strengthen them.

It should be pretty clear.

Orks, followed closely by Tyranids. These are the only two races with 'unlimited' resources, so to speak and whom lack any reliance upon any other large race. They consume and they regenerate endlessly.

rockerbikie wrote:Chaos Daemons, you can't kill them only strengthen them.

Yes you can. All you have to do is break its psyche, and it'll scatter in to the subsidiary warp energies that made it up.

Why is everyone talking about IoM, Orks, or Tyranids? The OP asked which race was the most powerful, not which species or nation.

I'll go with the Hive Tyrants from Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Chaos Daemons, you can't kill them only strengthen them.

Yes you can. All you have to do is break its psyche, and it'll scatter in to the subsidiary warp energies that made it up.

That's what happens to most daemons anyway if they don't do enough to make their god bothered keeping them together.

Grakmar wrote:Why is everyone talking about IoM, Orks, or Tyranids? The OP asked which race was the most powerful, not which species or nation.

I'll go with the Hive Tyrants from Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Touche.

In that case; Squiggoths.

Or, hmm. Do they count as a race, or are they a sub-species?

Melissia wrote:Yes you can. All you have to do is break its psyche, and it'll scatter in to the subsidiary warp energies that made it up.

You say that like it's easy to do or something.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Why is everyone talking about IoM, Orks, or Tyranids? The OP asked which race was the most powerful, not which species or nation.

I'll go with the Hive Tyrants from Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Touche.

In that case; Squiggoths.

Or, hmm. Do they count as a race, or are they a sub-species?

Subspecies of ork, like regular squigs, grots and the fungus they live on. It all comes from ork spores

If we're sticking to just one race the IOM would lose the ratlings, ogryns, space marines, joekearo etc as they are not homo sapiens


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If we're sticking to one race, i'll still say orks

C'tan. At the height of their power, they have done things that nothing else in the Galaxy has been shown to do.

The OP asked which race will become the most powerful.

Ctan certainly were the most powerful once, but they'd need to be reassembled again to become that powerful in the future

I'd love to see it happen though. I like my Star-Gods whole, not broken

Tyranids ate the Orks.

Orks ate the Tyranids, with Squig beer and BBQ sauce...

"mmm Tastes like Stunty!'

Tyranid Codex: Hive Fleet Leviathan wrapped it's coils around Ghorala before it continued to Holy Terra.

broodstar wrote:Tyranid Codex: Hive Fleet Leviathan wrapped it's coils around Ghorala before it continued to Holy Terra.

-That is only one tendril.
-The battle is far from over, capital planet of the empire is still in Ork hands and neither side want to back off.
-Second tendril is going toward Terra and third one is going toward Baal.

Currently, Humanity but soon all will be eaten by the 'nids.

Orks. This is simply due to their current numbers.

It's not known just how large the tyranids are as a whole race.

I would say tyranids, because they never argue and work in harmony, and they are very numerous, and seem to be coming into the galaxy with more comming all the time. Also, with their extremely quick adaptations, they will likely corner everyone when they are at the point where they have evolved to become, literally, the perfect killing machines.

TheRobotLol wrote:I would say tyranids, because they never argue and work in harmony, and they are very numerous, and seem to be coming into the galaxy with more comming all the time. Also, with their extremely quick adaptations, they will likely corner everyone when they are at the point where they have evolved to become, literally, the perfect killing machines.

This a point for orks not for nids. Even orks are not united they are nigh impossible to kill. When orks land on a planet that planet is swrewed not because of the initial attack but because of spores that are spread in the environment.

Tyranids are really fast at adapting and that is one of their greatest strengths but ask yourself which species tyranids encountered first and adapted to. Was is a human? eldar? tau? or possibly an ork as ork are everywhere. Tyranids have had time to adapt to ork for a long time and still can't find an effective way to destroy orks.

The final thing is tyranids cornering everyone. The thing with orks is that they are drawn to the biggest possible fight but if the biggest fight is the ork next to them then they will fight other ork. Orks gerally view other races as boring so they like to fight among themselves. If tyranids even try to corner ork they will doom themselves to extinction (with the rest of the galaxy, chaos included).

Orks already won the game of survival, other races are just fighting for the second place. Too bad it's worth jack gak.

Langston128 wrote:What race do you think will become the most powerful race in the 40k universe

This question seems poorly worded to me; race world imply a single species which is very different from 'team' as most people seem to be debating, or it could be interpreted as faction which is another debate all together and different from race/species.

If it is intended as faction then I would say Tyranids as the only things that I think could reasonable stand against them would be the C'tan lead Necrons but since they never officially existed in the 41st millennium that leaves nobody.

If it is intended as species the C'tan, Deamons, enslavers, or other incorporeal beings, as they have more power in the weakest of their race then the strongest of the biological beings and can never really be killed.








Edits: Grammar&punctuation

I would say faction because necrons are not of the same faction as csm and IoM is not the same factions as tau, so it depends on the race not the faction.

illuknisaa wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:I would say tyranids, because they never argue and work in harmony, and they are very numerous, and seem to be coming into the galaxy with more comming all the time. Also, with their extremely quick adaptations, they will likely corner everyone when they are at the point where they have evolved to become, literally, the perfect killing machines.

This a point for orks not for nids. Even orks are not united they are nigh impossible to kill. When orks land on a planet that planet is swrewed not because of the initial attack but because of spores that are spread in the environment.

Tyranids are really fast at adapting and that is one of their greatest strengths but ask yourself which species tyranids encountered first and adapted to. Was is a human? eldar? tau? or possibly an ork as ork are everywhere. Tyranids have had time to adapt to ork for a long time and still can't find an effective way to destroy orks.

The final thing is tyranids cornering everyone. The thing with orks is that they are drawn to the biggest possible fight but if the biggest fight is the ork next to them then they will fight other ork. Orks gerally view other races as boring so they like to fight among themselves. If tyranids even try to corner ork they will doom themselves to extinction (with the rest of the galaxy, chaos included).

Orks already won the game of survival, other races are just fighting for the second place. Too bad it's worth jack gak.

The first contact with the Tyranids was the Imperial Guard outpost on the planet Tyran (how they got the name.) That fleet would be later classified as Hive Fleet Behemoth, Behemoth then invaded the Ork world of Jagga, and a few minor engagements, until the mutual destruction of both on Macragge.

Actually it's hard to say who would win a full Fleet to Clan engagement because there is only two encounters between Orks and Tyranids. The main focus of Tyranid aggression appears to be focused on the Imperium and Eldar.

broodstar wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:text

more text

The first contact with the Tyranids was the Imperial Guard outpost on the planet Tyran (how they got the name.) That fleet would be later classified as Hive Fleet Behemoth, Behemoth then invaded the Ork world of Jagga, and a few minor engagements, until the mutual destruction of both on Macragge.

Actually it's hard to say who would win a full Fleet to Clan engagement because there is only two encounters between Orks and Tyranids. The main focus of Tyranid aggression appears to be focused on the Imperium and Eldar.

Tyran was IoM's first contact with tyranids not tyranids contact with known universe. In the older ork dex it was told that IoM sent out a beacon to fly in one direction hoping to find a place were there would be peace or safe. This was 14 000 years ago. The beacon is still sending faint signals. They are rather orky.

Arturius wrote:The IoM is the most powerful. They're losing, slowly, gradually being worn down by... well, everybody.

Every race in the galaxy is being worn down by... well, everybody. The Imperium is just wearing away faster. Necrons keep waking up, Tyranids keep arriving, Orks keep coming back, Tau, Eldar, and DE are too squirrely to pin down. Chaos exists for as long as emotions run rampant. The Imperium has no safe place and all their cards are already on the table.
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

Who's currently the most powerful? Orks or Tyranids. Who will be the most powerful eventually? Probably Tau.

Archonate wrote:
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

What? 1 on 1 Imperium could stomp anyone - even Orks eventually. Reason why are they decaying is politics and nothing more...

Brother Coa wrote:

Archonate wrote:
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

What? 1 on 1 Imperium could stomp anyone - even Orks eventually. Reason why are they decaying is politics and nothing more...

IoM only has maybe quarter million marines at it's disposal. It took over 10 000 marines (+armageddon) to slow down ghazkull. Without emperor and his 1000 custodians 3 legions and their primarchs would have died in the hands of blackfang.

IoM could go toe to toe with orks if it had loads of custodians and few emprahs. Now they have less marines, less custodians, and no primarchs and a rotting corpse.

The Imperium in terms of overall control. Necrons in terms of technology. Orks & Tyranids tied in terms of sheer numbers and potential to creat meat-grinder wars.

illuknisaa wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Archonate wrote:
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

What? 1 on 1 Imperium could stomp anyone - even Orks eventually. Reason why are they decaying is politics and nothing more...

IoM only has maybe quarter million marines at it's disposal. It took over 10 000 marines (+armageddon) to slow down ghazkull. Without emperor and his 1000 custodians 3 legions and their primarchs would have died in the hands of blackfang.

IoM could go toe to toe with orks if it had loads of custodians and few emprahs. Now they have less marines, less custodians, and no primarchs and a rotting corpse.

It's around a million marines, actually; but the point still stands.

It's explicit canon that Orks outnumber anybody else. It also appears to be canon that Orks don't have hive worlds; there are mentions of tribes consisting of a few million Orks controlling "entire continents or worlds".

Now; Hive worlds like, say, Necromunda or Armageddeon have hundreds of billions, sometimes trillions, of people living in their hive cities. Ork population density apparently doesn't often go over a billion or so on a world, interpreting what we know liberally. So what does that mean?

It means that for every world the Imperium controls, there are thousands under the clawed, green fists of the Orks. It means that they must live literally EVERYWHERE, on worlds that humanity can't even survive on; of course we knew that already, since Armageddeon is so polluted that humans can't live outside the hives without special protective gear, and Orks cheerfully wander around there without any environmental protection whatsoever.

It means that any Waaagh, no matter where it starts or where it goes, will start receiving reinforcements very, very quickly; because there are ALWAYS Ork worlds close by.

It means that the Imperial Guard is vastly, vastly outnumbered. Every Ork is a combatant; there are no civilians. Only a small percentage of the Imperium, by contrast, is militarized; they need a massive civilian population to support their fighters. Orks don't, they support themselves. And every single one is a soldier.

It means that the Orks already own the galaxy. They have been around since the War in Heaven, and have no intention of ever going away. They live everywhere, they go nearly anywhere, they wage xenocidal wars not for land or survival but for fun.

I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

Not unless that's been retconned away; the old fluff, at least, was that the Orks were created by the Old Ones to use as weapons against the Necrontyr and Enslavers. They've been around as long as the Eldar have.

The only reason the Ork empires are fragmented, is because there just isnt a reason for them to unit and fight together for once. They think they are the biggest and bestest and the strongest, so they dont jump into fights all together, because they dont have a reason to prove otherwise. Now if one of the factions grew to big in their britches, and started to actually push the Orks back, the WAAGH! would grow until they started crushing the enemies and then go back to their old ways of fighting Orks. Because Orks are the only things worth fighting.

Seems to be mostly between the Orks and 'Nids here.
I have to go with Orks.

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

They were created by the old ones so they cant have been created after the war in heaven as the old ones died out as a result of it.

I think the only real information we have on when they were made is that they were created after the Eldar and before the war in heaven.



As for the reasons why Orks dont unite... IIRC it has something to do with how they are genetically modified. Cant remember the exact wording but im pretty sure it has something to do with their aggressive and brutal nature. No surprise there.

It's interesting. Consider, for a moment, the behaviour of Gasses. A Gas will expand to fill a vacuum, until it is evenly distributed throughout the container.

Now consider a liquid, such as water. That liquid will fill a container as well, but only to a pre-determined volume. If the rest of the container is a vacuum, the liquid will boil off into a gas to fill that extra volume- in essence, it is no longer a liquid, but a gas.

The interaction of Gases and Liquids in a container are rather interesting- the gas will always exert a pressure enough that the liquid will not boil completely away, instead it will push against the liquid, some of it being dissolved in the water, some of the water escaping into a gas. But the pressure of the gas is constant.

Orks are the Gas, while the other races are Liquids. Orks push enough that they have what they need, and no more.

Or, you could look at it as an expression of one of Newton's Laws. For every action, there is an equal and opposite re-action. When you hit something, it's hitting you back just as hard.

That's how Orks act. Responding with equal, but not overt, Force against anything that hits them. Swirling around, so that, though you move Orks completely from one area, they make up for the difference by taking up more volume elsewhere.

In the Grim Darkness of the 41st millenium, one of the basic laws of Nature is a big green Fungoid.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

Not unless that's been retconned away; the old fluff, at least, was that the Orks were created by the Old Ones to use as weapons against the Necrontyr and Enslavers. They've been around as long as the Eldar have.

That statement contradicts it's self. The old ones never fought enslavers and Necrontyr at the same time. They fought the Necrons and enslavers.

The Necrons were created after the war in heaven as the war in heaven was the war between the old ones and the Necrontyr, the war the Necrontyr lost utterly and got exiled to the fringes of the galaxy. They then found the C'tan became the Necrons and started fighting the old ones again. The old ones were losing so they made a bunch of psyker races (The orks and jokaero were two that were specifically listed ) which changed the immaterium into the warp and made the enslavers.

So A: Orks were made after the war in heaven .
and
B: They were not intended to fight the enslavers.

NL_Cirrus wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

Not unless that's been retconned away; the old fluff, at least, was that the Orks were created by the Old Ones to use as weapons against the Necrontyr and Enslavers. They've been around as long as the Eldar have.

That statement contradicts it's self. The old ones never fought enslavers and Necrontyr at the same time. They fought the Necrons and enslavers.

The Necrons were created after the war in heaven as the war in heaven was the war between the old ones and the Necrontyr, the war the Necrontyr lost utterly and got exiled to the fringes of the galaxy. They then found the C'tan became the Necrons and started fighting the old ones again. The old ones were losing so they made a bunch of psyker races (The orks and jokaero were two that were specifically listed ) which changed the immaterium into the warp and made the enslavers.

So A: Orks were made after the war in heaven .
and
B: They were not intended to fight the enslavers.

The C'tan were found DURING the war in heaven. There was no period of peace. The war started, the necrons were losing badly, the C'tan offered their services, the Necrontyr accepted and were turned into Necrons, the tides of the war turned, the Silent king realized what he had done and after defeating the old ones he turned on the C'tan.

It was all one big conflict, they are not separate.

Obviously Tyranids.

Oh, sorry I was looking in the old Necron codex, the one that made sense, and was under the impression they didn't change any of the story until just before the "great sleep" and that's when all the fluff went to Nurgle crap.

My mistake

Theres nothing wrong with the new fluff. If anything it makes the Necrons alot more interesting than before. There was not enough room for two "End all existence" races and Tyranids suited the role alot better.

There is nothing in the new codex that doesnt make sense. The old version of the war in heaven was clunky, whereas the new version is fleshed out and makes a whole lot of more sense and frankly, its way more interesting. It actually has twists, has a far more interesting plot and the Necrons can actually think, unlike the old version.

I love me some oldcrons but the newcrons are just such an improvement, atleast to me.


Either way the Orks were created before the war in heaven, perhaps even during it. I cant remember the exact details.

Chaos, Necrons, Orks and Tyranids will be the final races remaining at the end of it all.

Once the Eldar have been eliminated, Slaanesh will have fulfilled its purpose and dissipate. This weakens Chaos, but doesn't put them out of the fight. The Necrons and Tyranids will eventually wipe out the Orks, as much as I wish greenskins could hold out. As long as the Tyranids live, they'll consume all biomaterials, even scouring planets of orks. I think ultimately, it'll come to the Necrons, Nids, and Chaos.

I don't see the Nids finding a way to eliminate the Necrons, and either they'd all eventually be wiped out in this galaxy or eventually withdraw having consumed all organic matter. I give it to Chaos in the end. I don't think the C'tan have the power to eliminate even the Chaos gods that remain once Slaanesh is gone.

Necrons have no biomatter so any conflict with the Tyranids and Necrons will be defensive on the part of Tyranids. I dont know if Chaos even have flesh or if they are just spirits. Anyway, once the Lictors and Genestealer scan the galaxy and don't find anymore biomatter, the Tyranids will move on to the next one.

*COUGH, Grey knights, COUGH*

Well, i see it like this, Chaos - through virtue of being incorporeal gods of another dimension and having an effect as long as their are rampant emotions, Necrons - Due to being *or atleast pre-what is now considered fluff* C'tan powered super machine beings with the gifts of their gods to be awesome, Orks - due to just not being killable without *as stated on the old GW site, and i think the new one, literally resorting to exterminatus, which is useless vs a huge fleet of greenskins, Tyranids - Due to being entirely space bourne, and being nearly without number.

Lastly whether anyone agree's with me *but we all know GW will have them SOMEHOW survive whether we like it or not....* Imperium - MAJOR plot armour, and generally i think personally considering the primarch's arent gone, 65% of them are only missing, with only 35% of them dead *Dorn, sanguinius, ferrus, and i dont really know if you can classify Guilliman as dead, but i think when he sees what's become of his sons he might end it all....or kick them out of it....* You could possibly reason that they would survive until the end. Plus the emperor isn't dead entirely either, he simply requires some defib'ing on an epic scale.

Oh and we all know how GW can suddenly ressurect people from the fluff when they feel like it... Darnath Lysander (Bless his awesome cotton socks of manlyness) anyone? ... So primarchs, even the friggin emperor aren't really impossible to throw back in... sure its a long shot and would require atleast 2 novels and ALOT of explaining... maybey even therapy for alot of HH fanatics, but its not entirely off the board.

---- DakkaWolf

Starchild theory anyone?
Perhaps that was the Emperor's gambit

@b1soul Exactly my point, GW can and does always leave possibility to bring back major characters... or remove them i.e. the C'tan lol

Grakmar wrote:Why is everyone talking about IoM, Orks, or Tyranids? The OP asked which race was the most powerful, not which species or nation.

Again, Orks.

Even if you disclude the specialized Orkoid species, Orks are still by far the most powerful.

It wasn't asked which individual member of each race was most powerful.

Melissia wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Why is everyone talking about IoM, Orks, or Tyranids? The OP asked which race was the most powerful, not which species or nation.

Again, Orks.

Even if you disclude the specialized Orkoid species, Orks are still by far the most powerful.

It wasn't asked which individual member of each race was most powerful.

But, Orks are a species. That species is made up of different races, with different physical characteristics. Clans are described as being set apart, genetically, from one another. So, each race of Orks is probably a different Clan.

Orks are also a race, most commonly represented by Ork Boyz.

Clans are ideological, not racial. Different Orkoid races include the fungus that squigs eat, the squigs that orks eat, snotlings, grots, Orks, and so on.

And actually, they're all the same Species, if you want to get right down to it. All of them come from the same spore.

Melissia wrote:Orks are also a race, most commonly represented by Ork Boyz.

Clans are ideological, not racial. Different Orkoid races include the fungus that squigs eat, the squigs that orks eat, snotlings, grots, Orks, and so on.

Interesting point...

I guess Orks don't quite fit in our standard definition of "species" unless we want to include all of those things as the same species. Where's a xenobiologist when you need one?

They all fall under orkology.

Tyranids will pass on and devastate everything, the Necrons will be the most powerful race left in the galaxy as Nids just ignore them.

Humans are the most powerful species because they're among the few with the majority of them united under one banner. Further, my feeling is that the combined might of the Imperium against the combined might of the Tyranid Hive Fleets (currently in the Milky Way) would result in an Imperial victory. The problem is that the Imperium suffers more conflicts than any other single faction (except possibly the Tyranids, but they often benefit from such conflicts) and as such is not in a position to wipe out a major faction. Leviathan isn't such a serious threat just because of its numbers, but because it coincides with other major offensives against the Imperium (most importantly, Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade).

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:Humans are the most powerful species because they're among the few with the majority of them united under one banner. Further, my feeling is that the combined might of the Imperium against the combined might of the Tyranid Hive Fleets (currently in the Milky Way) would result in an Imperial victory. The problem is that the Imperium suffers more conflicts than any other single faction (except possibly the Tyranids, but they often benefit from such conflicts) and as such is not in a position to wipe out a major faction. Leviathan isn't such a serious threat just because of its numbers, but because it coincides with other major offensives against the Imperium (most importantly, Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade).

So was sending a good portion of leviathan into the ork territories for fun?

Kryptman has always seemed to hit the nail on the head when it comes to his theories on Tyranid. This said, he found it necessary to divert that swarm away from humanity for the preservation of the imperium.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
So was sending a good portion of leviathan into the ork territories for fun?

Kryptman has always seemed to hit the nail on the head when it comes to his theories on Tyranid. This said, he found it necessary to divert that swarm away from humanity for the preservation of the imperium.

As I said, the Imperium is fighting off many offensives at the moment. I don't think Leviathan would have had the same success if Armageddon and the Cadian System were not both still under seige, for instance. Leviathan has come at a pretty low point for the Imperium and it's not just it's own power that influenced Kryptman's decision.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:Humans are the most powerful species because they're among the few with the majority of them united under one banner. Further, my feeling is that the combined might of the Imperium against the combined might of the Tyranid Hive Fleets (currently in the Milky Way) would result in an Imperial victory. The problem is that the Imperium suffers more conflicts than any other single faction (except possibly the Tyranids, but they often benefit from such conflicts) and as such is not in a position to wipe out a major faction. Leviathan isn't such a serious threat just because of its numbers, but because it coincides with other major offensives against the Imperium (most importantly, Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade).

So was sending a good portion of leviathan into the ork territories for fun?

Kryptman has always seemed to hit the nail on the head when it comes to his theories on Tyranid. This said, he found it necessary to divert that swarm away from humanity for the preservation of the imperium.

In all probability, Kryptman's diversion of Leviathan has only put off Leviathan's advance into Imperial space. If anything, after that tendril of Leviathan is through withh the Orks in Octaria it will emerge larger and stronger than ever before.

That's not to say Kryptman did the wrong thing though - what other option was there? He's bought the Imperium some time... but then what are the odds of that time being used productively?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=tyranid+invasion&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=810&tbm=isch&tbnid=aVZYr9W4OWncKM:&imgrefurl=http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyranids&docid=-F2cJzocvmrhDM&imgurl=http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpg&w=960&h=804&ei=ldg2T5PZB-ih0QWW2OWuAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=184&vpy=272&dur=602&hovh=205&hovw=245&tx=116&ty=80&sig=100838118813075883599&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

See those tendrils, Leviathan was tiny compared to what the Tyranids can unleash. It nearly destroyed the Ultramarines with the help of the Necrons to defeat a small tendril, what could the entire Tyranid race do? They have destroyed other galaxies and crossed the void, I doubt a few men can stop them, especially as they can recover numbers so quickly.

The entire galaxy is surrounded by the start them. Who knows how far out it extends, this is just the beginning. And finally I leave you with this, what if Terra falls?

phantommaster wrote:http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=tyranid+invasion&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=810&tbm=isch&tbnid=aVZYr9W4OWncKM:&imgrefurl=http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyranids&docid=-F2cJzocvmrhDM&imgurl=http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpg&w=960&h=804&ei=ldg2T5PZB-ih0QWW2OWuAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=184&vpy=272&dur=602&hovh=205&hovw=245&tx=116&ty=80&sig=100838118813075883599&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

See those tendrils, Leviathan was tiny compared to what the Tyranids can unleash. It nearly destroyed the Ultramarines with the help of the Necrons to defeat a small tendril, what could the entire Tyranid race do? They have destroyed other galaxies and crossed the void, I doubt a few men can stop them, especially as they can recover numbers so quickly.

The entire galaxy is surrounded by the start them. Who knows how far out it extends, this is just the beginning. And finally I leave you with this, what if Terra falls?

For fun check page 160 in the main hardback rulebook. Then compare it to page 166. Which is bigger?

phantommaster wrote:Tyranids will pass on and devastate everything, the Necrons will be the most powerful race left in the galaxy as Nids just ignore them.

Which race of the Tyrannic species?

And frankly, the Orks are still stronger. Orks have individual initiative and more advanced tech going for them along with a better reproductive system.

Ogryn wrote:Imperium. Although if us Space Elfs become more mighty...

Hehe, I think we'll always be there even when the Imperium is gone.

I'd say Necrons and Tyranids. At least, they'd probably be the last ones. I would say this order of events:

1.- Chaos finally defeats the Imperium. In the process, gains enough power to also terminate the Eldar race and invade the Webway, as well as wiping out Tau and Orks.

2.- Necrons defeat the Warp, using their uber technology, probably making it vanish, or at least destroying the daemons.

3.- Tyranids, in the meanwhile, devour every biomass their encounter.

4.- Finally, only Necrons and Tyranids stand. Then, perhaps Tyranids migrate to another galaxy because they know they don't have anything to win against Necrons. Perhaps the Necrons wipe them out, as they want organic forms again (new fluff). Or perhaps they take Tyranids' bioforms... who knows? We'll be dead long before that XD

IronChaos wrote:I'd say Necrons and Tyranids. At least, they'd probably be the last ones. I would say this order of events:

1.- Chaos finally defeats the Imperium. In the process, gains enough power to also terminate the Eldar race and invade the Webway, as well as wiping out Tau and Orks.

HeheheHAHAAA!!

No.

First off, Orks are way too numerous. There's multiple Empires of Orks out there, each spanning multiple systems. That's without the myriad Space Hulks floating about, that haven't found anything interesting yet. Orks don't fear Chaos, and can't be tainted by it, which negates one of their biggest advantages against everyone except Tau and Necrons. And if Chaos did manage to actually put a significant dent in Orky populations, Gork an' Mork would just come around and smash those uppity Chaos Gods back into their place.

Anvildude wrote:

IronChaos wrote:I'd say Necrons and Tyranids. At least, they'd probably be the last ones. I would say this order of events:

1.- Chaos finally defeats the Imperium. In the process, gains enough power to also terminate the Eldar race and invade the Webway, as well as wiping out Tau and Orks.

HeheheHAHAAA!!

No.

First off, Orks are way too numerous. There's multiple Empires of Orks out there, each spanning multiple systems. That's without the myriad Space Hulks floating about, that haven't found anything interesting yet. Orks don't fear Chaos, and can't be tainted by it, which negates one of their biggest advantages against everyone except Tau and Necrons. And if Chaos did manage to actually put a significant dent in Orky populations, Gork an' Mork would just come around and smash those uppity Chaos Gods back into their place.

Well, perhaps I gave too much protagonism to Chaos, but remember that the other 2 big forces, Necrons and specially Tyranids, are still out there in the meanwhile. Tyranids have already swallowed many orks and assimilated their genes (read the previous Tyranid codex), and Necrons can use them as target practice. I'm not sure Orks would last much. Perhaps much time, but not forever.

I would say it would be the Humans but then again i have to say that it could be the Necrons because there true numbers are unknown and they have tomb worlds all over the place that have yet to be activeated as well as tomb ships and from the history of the Necrons as i remember they had a Empire that was much larger and more expanisive then the Imperium.

Melissia wrote:

phantommaster wrote:Tyranids will pass on and devastate everything, the Necrons will be the most powerful race left in the galaxy as Nids just ignore them.

Which race of the Tyrannic species?

And frankly, the Orks are still stronger. Orks have individual initiative and more advanced tech going for them along with a better reproductive system.

Stronger, perhaps. We don't know that. All that has been said is that it is unclear of how vast the whole Tyranid race really is. All we know is, that they're not from our galaxy.
- Question remains whether or not their better reproductive system transfers to "better serving biomass". But i do agree that growing everything you need from mushroom is better than a need to conquer to expand. But fact still remains, that Tyranids doesn't leave world for the other races to reclaim.

The Orks are far from defenseless. But their lust and need for conflict together with their hierarchy structure doesn't quite support them either.

If Orkz were to unite, then the greenskins pwn.

You know what happened when the Tyranids assimilated Ork genes?

Squigs. And those are Orks, now. Orks assimilated Tyranid genes, right back!

Anvildude wrote:You know what happened when the Tyranids assimilated Ork genes?

Squigs. And those are Orks, now. Orks assimilated Tyranid genes, right back!

I thought biovores were the orkz the nids ate. Also in this debate wouldnt the fact that orkz fight each less powerful then nids? I mean to me a unified front would seem to carry the day over a hypothetical alliance.

Draigo wrote:

Anvildude wrote:You know what happened when the Tyranids assimilated Ork genes?

Squigs. And those are Orks, now. Orks assimilated Tyranid genes, right back!

I thought biovores were the orkz the nids ate. Also in this debate wouldnt the fact that orkz fight each less powerful then nids? I mean to me a unified front would seem to carry the day over a hypothetical alliance.

Thats a speculation. But i believe that the fall of Skarfang suggests otherwise. I'd have a hard time believing, that the Tyranids are incapable of adapting any further than to only produce Biovores from the Ork biomass they assimilate.

squig swarms used to be in both nid and ork armylists.

These days the nid ones are ripper swarms.

I'd say orks. I cant find the quote but there was one in the second edition rules about the mechanicus sending out a satelite to other galaxies 1000 years ago and every galaxy it passed through they recordfed ork radio chatter, leaving them with them disapointing conclusion that everywhere man will go the orks will have got there first.

It was almost 10,000 years ago i think, and just within this galaxy (adrift) but yeah.

No matter where you go Orks have either got there first, or will be there shortly

I wouldn't be surprised if Ork genetics lead to a lot of spore-based weapons and creatures, and that the Orks improve the resilience of the Tyranid assault on the biosphere of a world rather than on battlefield swarms.

Hell, even the Venomthrope could be tuned by borrowing the Ork spore reproductive efficiency though, and building that into the toxic gasses and spores they produce.



One thing that the Tyranids have in their favour in a war versus the Orks is that, hardy as the Ork infestation may be, there is absolutely nothing of value on a world that's been scoured by the Hive Fleets. No water, no atmosphere, massively reduced precious metals etc; even if the Orks could spawn there (doubtful given the lack of atmosphere if nothing else), the odds of them ever getting past the Squigs and Feral stage are pretty low.

I love how everyone assumes that the Tyranids are the 40K universe's big bad and that the Hive Fleets are just the vanguard of a huge, galaxy-eating force.

That's just one of the theories. It's also suggested that the forces that have been sighted are all that remains. Or perhaps more chillingly, they aren't attacking the Milky Way to conquer, in fact they are fleeing from something...

Have the orks been unanimously agreed upon yet?

Miraclefish wrote:I love how everyone assumes that the Tyranids are the 40K universe's big bad and that the Hive Fleets are just the vanguard of a huge, galaxy-eating force.

That's just one of the theories. It's also suggested that the forces that have been sighted are all that remains. Or perhaps more chillingly, they aren't attacking the Milky Way to conquer, in fact they are fleeing from something...

Just the fleets on that map show you that what's reached us is only a tiny bit of it, and the lines aren't getting thinner at the edge of the map.

If they were all out fleeing, from something even they can't handle, I don't think they would have taken it upon themselves to try and eat everything on the way, slowing, and sometimes even completely stopping their progress.