I propose we include in this thread our favorite game endings.
1. Metal Gear Solid 3
2. Mass Effect
3. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
4. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
5. Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
And:
6. BLOPS, because it was the low point where I finally realized I'd never waste my money on another CoD game.
I like how the majority of "best endings of all time" are from the last couple of years. It's almost as if decent storywriting wasn't around before 2000!
... or maybe the majority of current generation gamers never played a classic and has no idea what they're talking (well, voting) about. Aside from the usual idiots who fail to realize that "best ending" has nothing to do with "best game".
LordofHats wrote:I propose we include in this thread our favorite game endings.
1. Metal Gear Solid 3
2. Mass Effect
3. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
4. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
5. Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
And:
6. BLOPS, because it was the low point where I finally realized I'd never waste my money on another CoD game.
Seconded:
5: Brutal Legend (DECAPITATIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!)
4: Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
3: Dragon Age: Origins
2: Dead Space 2
1: Dishwasher; Vampire Smile.
6: Castlevania Lords of Shadow. I just beat the ever living crap out of the Devil. You got a problem?
I don't know, BLOPS's ending was good in the sense that it was over the top like the actual campaign, they took a wild conspiracy theory and then built the game off of that. All of the action scenes, all of the cinematics, everything was trying to be over the top. For that reason I will give Treyarch props for sticking to their guns.
And why not, I ask?
Black and White had the best ending out of all Pokemon Games released.
Sad that Skyward Sword didn't make the top ten, not that I've finished it yet.
We can say that old games had better endings, but I think the technology is what's made delivery so much more memorable; a script still has to come alive, no matter how good.
That being said, my list worried me; I know that games have emotionally affected me in the past (Mafia I anyone? Wait... I forgot about that, maybe it should have gone on the list ) and yet I struggle to remember them (Oooh Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30!). Holy crap, so many games do have good endings if you struggle to remember them...
Henners91 wrote:We can say that old games had better endings, but I think the technology is what's made delivery so much more memorable; a script still has to come alive, no matter how good.
That being said, my list worried me; I know that games have emotionally affected me in the past (Mafia I anyone? Wait... I forgot about that, maybe it should have gone on the list ) and yet I struggle to remember them (Oooh Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30!). Holy crap, so many games do have good endings if you struggle to remember them...
Really? So, if i make a game with great graphics but a script where every other word is a mix of Clock, Mushroom or Tiger you think it's gonna have a 'memorable ending'? And by memorable i mean good.
Henners91 wrote:We can say that old games had better endings, but I think the technology is what's made delivery so much more memorable; a script still has to come alive, no matter how good.
That being said, my list worried me; I know that games have emotionally affected me in the past (Mafia I anyone? Wait... I forgot about that, maybe it should have gone on the list ) and yet I struggle to remember them (Oooh Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30!). Holy crap, so many games do have good endings if you struggle to remember them...
Really?
So, if i make a game with great graphics but a script where every other word is a mix of Clock, Mushroom or Tiger you think it's gonna have a 'memorable ending'?
And by memorable i mean good.
Give it an above-average script, though not quite to the standards of old (when Chaucer was apparently doing all the writing) and you will probably blow me away.
Not that I am defending CoD here. The only good CoD ending was CoD4's and that was just a dramatic setpiece. MW2 was orful and Black Ops was incredibly underwhelming (CoD had given us a tradition of beating bad guys to a pulp and all I do is drown the guy?)
1. Portal 2/Portal 1
2. Machinarium
3. Braid
4. Kingdom Hearts 2
5. Amnesia: The Dark Descent
6. Bioshock
7. Silent Hill 2
8. Final Fantasy VII
9. Half Life (series in general)
10. Limbo
Runners up: DooM, Painkiller and Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth.
That would be my list. Sometimes, game wise...less story is better story. Whats unsaid can have a powerful impact and how easily the story is made apparent to the reader is important too.
The thing is, people keep saying that the people that voted obviously can't remember more than 5 years ago, and thats the reason that BLOPS won.
Have you considered that possibly they did vote for other games, but because more people have played BLOPS, more people would vote for it.
You can't really expect people to vote for games that they haven't played, and more people would be able to vote for BLOPS than other games because they've actually played BLOPs.
Yeah this is a stupid list. Ok I'm biased myself and would put HL1 and DoW2 up there but BLOPs being top is either a major trolling or a deomnstration of the kind of idiots we have for a gaming community. I also noticed there's at least 3 Halo games... seriously? Lastly InFamous should of been higher up.
Yeah I was shocked that the Halo games appeared in that list. Good series but none of the endings were at all memorable, mostly because they were all left wide open for "Play sequel."
LordofHats wrote:Yeah I was shocked that the Halo games appeared in that list. Good series but none of the endings were at all memorable, mostly because they were all left wide open for "Play sequel."
Barring Halo reach, though that was just a really well done last stand, nothing more.
But yeah, not diserving of a win for it. It's got plenty of other things going for it anyway
LordofHats wrote:Yeah I was shocked that the Halo games appeared in that list. Good series but none of the endings were at all memorable, mostly because they were all left wide open for "Play sequel."
To be fair, there are two games on there that are pre-2000...out of fifty. (Final Fantasy VII, number 9, was 1997, and Super Metroid at 42 was in 1994)
Ugh, top ten? I don't know if I've finished ten games.
I think I'm not going to bother ranking them. Honestly, for a long time I could pick apart Final Fantasy VII's flaws and the things that bugged me about the game. When I went to play through it again recently, however, I found almost nothing annoying about the game. My point is, when I'm playing a game, my mindset is that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. For me, at least, it'd be really hard to order 10 games because whatever I just finished will seem like number one. And I'll try to start things off with Ribon Fox's little template.
Final Fantasy VII
Spoiler:
Having defeated Sephiroth once and for all, the team boards the Highwind and flies out of the Northern Cave to watch the White Materia do its magic. It goes up and forms a shield, but it's too late - Sephiroth's Meteor is already too close to the planet to be stopped. In the end, with everyone despairing over the end of the world, the planet itself uses the Lifestream to save itself from Meteor.
Honestly, I have a love/hate relationship with this ending. I absolutely love the ending for the emotion and the shock of the team's entire effort just being useless, and the music is just amazing throughout the finale, but when you look at it, it's a freaking deus ex machina ending. The team struggles to stop Meteor, and actually fails - the planet has to finish the job for them.
Mass Effect 2 (Good Ending)
Spoiler:
His team finally assembled and prepared, Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team fights a long, treacherous battle through the Collector fleet and ultimately discovers that they were harvesting humans to create their own Reaper. Shepard destroys it and, with the help of his team, makes out alive - but not before he learns that the Reapers are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
What's not to like about this one? It's dramatic, it's tense, and it's got an epic finale that leaves the story open for Mass Effect 3. What really impresses me about the ending is the fact that it's amazingly open-ended depending on how much you prepared for it and how you go through it. Members of your team can die if you don't do it right, and the whole thing can be a literal suicide mission if you haven't prepared the ship for the opening firefight. On top of all that, it ends in a cliffhanger with Shepard learning that the Reapers are coming back, and it's his job to prepare his people for war.
Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time
Spoiler:
Ratchet and Clank battle their way through the Great Clock to where Azimuth is attempting to rewrite history by shifting the Great Clock backwards to bring back his people, the lombaxes. Ratchet and Clank arrive too late to stop him, and the time shift begins as Ratchet and Azimuth duel. Ratchet defeats Azimuth, but the strain of such a massive shift is too much for the Great Clock, and if it were allowed to complete its shift, it would rip itself apart. Azimuth realizes the error of his ways and uses his wrench to forcibly stop the time shift, saving the day but getting killed by a blast from the Clock.
This one had me in tears at the end. Azimuth was such a great character - loyal to his people, to the point where he would rewrite history itself to bring them back. Ultimately, he was a guy who was just doing what he thought was right. Misguided, but not evil. Ratchet & Clank has always had its share of over the top, pure evil villains, but this was the first whose plan was noble, if destructive. It's just a beautifully tearjerker of an ending.
Kingdom Hearts
Spoiler:
Ansem is defeated, but the Door is still open, allowing for the Heartless to pour over the worlds. Sora and his friends try, but can't find the strength to close it for good, and the Heartless are preparing to strike at him from within the Door. At the last minute, however, Riku and King Mickey show up to lend a hand, staying within the Door itself to ensure that it remains sealed for good. As the Door shuts, Riku tells Sora to "take care of her," referring to their mutual friend, Kairi. But the story doesn't end there - after the Door is closed, Sora finds himself standing in front of Kairi, who is being pulled back to their homeworld of the Destiny Islands. Though they share a heartfelt reunion, Kairi is, in the end, torn away from her love as the worlds are rebuilt and the walls between worlds go up once again.
This one makes me cry whenever I see it. This is all before Kingdom Hearts II, so we didn't know what was going to happen - the game just ends with Riku and Mickey trapped, Kairi torn back to the Destiny Islands, and Sora stranded. It's one of those endings that just leaves you wanting for more.
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Spoiler:
With Volgin defeated, Snake and EVA escape the compound and meet up with the Boss. Snake finally kills his old mentor and he and EVA finally leave back home. In the ending cutscenes, EVA reveals that she's a double-agent, and steals the Philosopher's Legacy for her own country. Snake returns home and is awarded a medal and the title of "Big Boss." The game ends with him visiting an unmarked grave: the grave of the Boss, who would go down in history as one of the United State's greatest traitors, despite the fact that she betrayed them on their orders for a greater cause.
This is another one that makes me cry every time I see it. Say what you will about Metal Gear Solid, it knows how to tell a good story. This ending is just perfect, revealing the origin of Big Boss and also the fact that the Boss, Snake's foe throughout the game, was actually trying to save the Legacy like he was. It's a shocking twist to the game, and seeing Snake tearfully saluting the Boss's grave just clinches it for me. It's a brilliant game with a brilliant ending.
His team finally assembled and prepared, Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team fights a long, treacherous battle through the Collector fleet and ultimately discovers that they were harvesting humans to create their own Reaper. Shepard destroys it and, with the help of his team, makes out alive - but not before he learns that the Reapers are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
What's not to like about this one? It's dramatic, it's tense, and it's got an epic finale that leaves the story open for Mass Effect 3. What really impresses me about the ending is the fact that it's amazingly open-ended depending on how much you prepared for it and how you go through it. Members of your team can die if you don't do it right, and the whole thing can be a literal suicide mission if you haven't prepared the ship for the opening firefight. On top of all that, it ends in a cliffhanger with Shepard learning that the Reapers are coming back, and it's his job to prepare his people for war.
Thought I'd fix this one for you:
Spoiler:
His team finally assembled and prepared (yes, it took the whole game to do this; but hey it killed time before ME3 and made a few $$$ eh?), Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team sits back and enjoys a long cutscene before discovering that the Collectors were harvesting humans to create their own giant Terminator Baby. After holding back intense laughter at the hilarious visage of this ultimate foe, Shepard destroys the abomination and sends it to ill-conceived villain hell and, with the help of his team, makes it out alive - but not before he learns that the Necrons are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
Bionic Commando and the first Transformers DS game (Decepticon version). One has Hitler's head exploding, the other has Megatron congratulate you for being awesome then killing you because you're too much of a threat.
Guinness has done this before. They're either idiots, or trolling to get more attention.
Here's their list of the 50 Most Influential Games of all time:
Spoiler:
1. Super Mario Kart 2. Tetris 3. Grand Theft Auto 4. Super Mario World 5. Zelda Ocarina of Time 6. Halo 7. Resident Evil IV 8. Final Fantasy XII 9. Street Fighter II 10. GoldenEye 11. Super Mario 64 12. Tomb Raider 13. Metal Gear Solid 14. Call of Duty 4 15. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 16. GTA San Andreas 17. Super Mario Bros 18. Zelda: A Link to the Past 19. Gran Turismo 20. Final Fantasy VII 21. Pro Evolution Soccer 4 22. The Orange Box 23. Lego Star Wars Complete Saga 24. Tekken 2 25. Wii Sports 26. Pokemon Red/Blue 27. Guitar Hero 28. Project Gotham Racing 4 29. Super Mario Galaxy 30. Resident Evil 31. Ico 32. Chrono Trigger 33. Gunstar Heroes 34. Soul Calibur 35. Advance Wars 36. Ridge Racer 37. Super Metroid 38. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 39. GTA Vice City 40. BioShock 41. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 42. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening 43. God of War 44. Sega Rally Championship 45. Starfox 64 46. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 47. WarioWare Inc 48. Saturn Bomberman 49. Crash Bandicoot 50. Outrun 2
Really? Super Mario Kart is the most influential game of all time? And Super Mario Brothers comes in at 17???
His team finally assembled and prepared, Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team fights a long, treacherous battle through the Collector fleet and ultimately discovers that they were harvesting humans to create their own Reaper. Shepard destroys it and, with the help of his team, makes out alive - but not before he learns that the Reapers are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
What's not to like about this one? It's dramatic, it's tense, and it's got an epic finale that leaves the story open for Mass Effect 3. What really impresses me about the ending is the fact that it's amazingly open-ended depending on how much you prepared for it and how you go through it. Members of your team can die if you don't do it right, and the whole thing can be a literal suicide mission if you haven't prepared the ship for the opening firefight. On top of all that, it ends in a cliffhanger with Shepard learning that the Reapers are coming back, and it's his job to prepare his people for war.
Thought I'd fix this one for you:
Spoiler:
His team finally assembled and prepared (yes, it took the whole game to do this; but hey it killed time before ME3 and made a few $$$ eh?), Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team sits back and enjoys a long cutscene before discovering that the Collectors were harvesting humans to create their own giant Terminator Baby. After holding back intense laughter at the hilarious visage of this ultimate foe, Shepard destroys the abomination and sends it to ill-conceived villain hell and, with the help of his team, makes it out alive - but not before he learns that the Necrons are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
Lol, as much as I liked ME2, I do have to admit the end boss was a bit silly looking.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grakmar wrote:Guinness has done this before. They're either idiots, or trolling to get more attention.
Here's their list of the 50 Most Influential Games of all time:
Spoiler:
1. Super Mario Kart 2. Tetris 3. Grand Theft Auto 4. Super Mario World 5. Zelda Ocarina of Time 6. Halo 7. Resident Evil IV 8. Final Fantasy XII 9. Street Fighter II 10. GoldenEye 11. Super Mario 64 12. Tomb Raider 13. Metal Gear Solid 14. Call of Duty 4 15. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 16. GTA San Andreas 17. Super Mario Bros 18. Zelda: A Link to the Past 19. Gran Turismo 20. Final Fantasy VII 21. Pro Evolution Soccer 4 22. The Orange Box 23. Lego Star Wars Complete Saga 24. Tekken 2 25. Wii Sports 26. Pokemon Red/Blue 27. Guitar Hero 28. Project Gotham Racing 4 29. Super Mario Galaxy 30. Resident Evil 31. Ico 32. Chrono Trigger 33. Gunstar Heroes 34. Soul Calibur 35. Advance Wars 36. Ridge Racer 37. Super Metroid 38. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 39. GTA Vice City 40. BioShock 41. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 42. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening 43. God of War 44. Sega Rally Championship 45. Starfox 64 46. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 47. WarioWare Inc 48. Saturn Bomberman 49. Crash Bandicoot 50. Outrun 2
Really? Super Mario Kart is the most influential game of all time? And Super Mario Brothers comes in at 17???
Ok, 5+ things
1) The Orange Box is not a game! It is a compilation of games! 2) Where the feth is silent hill! 3) Where the feth is fallout! 4)Where the feth is starcraft! 5) where the feth is Command and Conquer! 6) Where the feth is...oh, you fill in the blanks, I can't be bothered
Why isn't Knights of the Old Republic mentioned?
Or Mass Effect 1?
Those endings were epic.
Same with the ending for the silent hill games. And Alan Wade. NO MENTION?
Why is there no love for the fallout games Guinness? Did Black Isle hurt you in some way before it was torpedoed into Obsidian?
(Get it? Obsidian, not oblivion? I'm so witty.)
His team finally assembled and prepared (yes, it took the whole game to do this; but hey it killed time before ME3 and made a few $$$ eh?), Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team sits back and enjoys a long cutscene before discovering that the Collectors were harvesting humans to create their own giant Terminator Baby. After holding back intense laughter at the hilarious visage of this ultimate foe, Shepard destroys the abomination and sends it to ill-conceived villain hell and, with the help of his team, makes it out alive - but not before he learns that the Necrons are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
QFUT (Quoted for Ultimate Truth)
ME2 did many a thing correctly but the story was absolute crap.
His team finally assembled and prepared (yes, it took the whole game to do this; but hey it killed time before ME3 and made a few $$$ eh?), Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team sits back and enjoys a long cutscene before discovering that the Collectors were harvesting humans to create their own giant Terminator Baby. After holding back intense laughter at the hilarious visage of this ultimate foe, Shepard destroys the abomination and sends it to ill-conceived villain hell and, with the help of his team, makes it out alive - but not before he learns that the Necrons are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
QFUT (Quoted for Ultimate Truth)
ME2 did many a thing correctly but the story was absolute crap.
Uhh who are you comparing to? ME was by far more superior of a story.
His team finally assembled and prepared (yes, it took the whole game to do this; but hey it killed time before ME3 and made a few $$$ eh?), Shepard takes the Normandy through the Omega 4 Relay in order to challenge the Collectors directly. His team sits back and enjoys a long cutscene before discovering that the Collectors were harvesting humans to create their own giant Terminator Baby. After holding back intense laughter at the hilarious visage of this ultimate foe, Shepard destroys the abomination and sends it to ill-conceived villain hell and, with the help of his team, makes it out alive - but not before he learns that the Necrons are set to return to Terminus to wipe out all life once again.
QFUT (Quoted for Ultimate Truth)
ME2 did many a thing correctly but the story was absolute crap.
Still more deserving of a place on the list than Call of Jingoism.
By any standard of story, ME2 was horrible. Just looking at Bioware's two previous works, KotOR and ME1, ME2 seems to have been a radical drop in the quality of Bioware's story telling ability.
I've actually gone so far as to claim, Mass Effect 2: Side-Quest the Game has no main story worth talking about. It's a 25-30 hour game where you spend probably 4-5 hours actually doing the main storyline.
LordofHats wrote:Uh, that's what I said? I'm confused...
By any standard of story, ME2 was horrible. Just looking at Bioware's two previous works, KotOR and ME1, ME2 seems to have been a radical drop in the quality of Bioware's story telling ability.
I've actually gone so far as to claim, Mass Effect 2: Side-Quest the Game has no main story worth talking about. It's a 25-30 hour game where you spend probably 4-5 hours actually doing the main storyline.
agreed. But it was rushed. ME3 is promising to improve on ME2 and making it more story driven and character driven.
Shep gets killed. Shep finds out Collectors did it; needs to raise a team to get revenge. Shep travels around raising team, with two encounters with the Collectors breaking this up. Shep goes through relay and kills baby Reaper and blows up Collector Space Station. Shep wins. It literally was 'do a lot of pointless crap to construct a team'
As for the influential games; I don't think that list is *terrible* but the complete absence of the most influential games on the RTS genre (C&C, Age of Empires, Starcraft, Total War series) is puzzling. Almost as if the genre doesn't exist.
EA is promising to improve on <insert serial title> and making it more story driven and character driven.
Fix'd. Because EA always delivers, am I right
Bioware has been usrped by EA's desire for cash. Hence the absolute piece of gak that was DA2, the worst game to ever have "Bioware" on the box and probably one of the worst games of its release year. Bioware is dead to me
EDIT: In short, I would have called ME2 a fluke, but then I played DA2 and I realized it wasn't.
moom241 wrote:I'm sorry, but what's DA2? If pressed I could hazard a guess, but it'd probably be wrong.
I'll hazard a guess for you and say Dragon Age 2.
Also, at the above comments on ME2 - to be fair, this whole thread is about best ENDINGS, not best STORIES. Even if ME2 was SIdequest: the Video Game, the finale was pretty intense.
LordofHats wrote:
By any standard of story, ME2 was horrible.
The final boss was absurd, but the story was not what I would call horrible. Then again, I didn't expect much because the story in 1 wasn't that good either. I would have preferred they left the Reapers out (or at least fething renamed them), and just centered the story on galactic politics.
I see it sort of like I see the Halo series, really well realized world with a great aesthetic, but mediocre gameplay, and middling stories.
I have a hard time being invested in a stories ending if the story itself is no good. So you had a spiffy ending? To bad the rest of the game sucked.
Then again, I didn't expect much because the story in 1 wasn't that good either. I would have preferred they left the Reapers out (or at least fething renamed them), and just centered the story on galactic politics.
IDK. ME1 was good in the sense it held attention and suspense very effectively and kept you guessing about what was going on. Like in KotOR Bioware handled it very well there. I have numerous problems with ME2's story, starting with how they killed Shepard for no reason other than to make a game trailer. Why the crap would you ever dictate a game's story to produce a game trailer? That's backwards.
LordofHats wrote:I have a hard time being invested in a stories ending if the story itself is no good. So you had a spiffy ending? To bad the rest of the game sucked.
I just wondered why the cuttelfish machine race needed to make its new addition look like a skeleton, and why it needed to kill people to do it. They should have just had it be biological experimentation (ie. how do we best kill you) and left it at that.
My only problem with the rest of the story was that it was disjointed. I thought the individual "missions" and character development were, generally, very good.
LordofHats wrote:
IDK. ME1 was good in the sense it held attention and suspense very effectively and kept you guessing about what was going on.
For like 10 minutes. As soon as the beacon is found its like "Oh, ancient conquerors, Saren is probably working for them"
Though, as much as I dislike the Reapers (its probably mostly the name) I am somewhat interested to see what their motivation is, if Bioware bothers to supply one.
LordofHats wrote:
Like in KotOR Bioware handled it very well there. I have numerous problems with ME2's story, starting with how they killed Shepard for no reason other than to make a game trailer. Why the crap would you ever dictate a game's story to produce a game trailer? That's backwards.
It wasn't just to produce a game trailer, there's very few reasons he could be induced to work with Cerberus, though it was heavy handed. It also solidifies the Collectors as serious business in a way that the abduction of random people does not (yep, you took/killed some of our billions/trillions of people, oh well). Granted, that last bit is probably more me being me than a real story point.
I mean, say I played an "internationalist" Shepard in ME1. What is Cerberus going to say to me in order to convince me to work with them? I guess they could have taken someone hostage, but I'm Shepard, I've already killed at least one person, and possibly one Krogan, because I felt it was necessary.
All that said, I'm not saying the story for ME2 was great, or even good, I'm saying it was acceptable and did a good job of playing to ME's strengths: world design and aesthetic. I already compared it to Halo, but Skyrim also comes to mind. Honestly, so does the original Dragon Age. Hell, I even thought DA2 had a better story than the first game.
Hell, I even thought DA2 had a better story than the first game.
And I just died a little on the inside again *cries*
Honestly the Cerberus bit is just a continuation of how much I hate ME2's story. Shepard died so they could make a trailer. That's it. They wused out of actually forcing the player to make a real moral decision and just hammer fisted you in there (of course I have that complaint against all of Bioware's game's since KotOR).
Shepard doesn't work for Cerberus cause they brought him back from the dead (how'd his body survive reentry anyway?) he did it cause the story dictated it. A much better story was waiting in ME2 and it was just never used. THe Collectors are a rather blatant example of sequel syndrome. If these guys were lying around why the crap did Sovereign need Saren in the first place? Hell, what's the point of Sovereign being around in first place?
I agree about characterization though. In DA2 as well the ability of Bioware to make you actually give a damn about your party has improved since KotOR. The only KotOR person I gave a damn about was HK-47 (and only because he was genuinely hilarious).
Shepard doesn't work for Cerberus cause they brought him back from the dead (how'd his body survive reentry anyway?) he did it cause the story dictated it. A much better story was waiting in ME2 and it was just never used. THe Collectors are a rather blatant example of sequel syndrome. If these guys were lying around why the crap did Sovereign need Saren in the first place? Hell, what's the point of Sovereign being around in first place?
I tend to think that the Collectors would have been a backup plan. Which one is easier? Sovereign telling one guy (Saren), who happens to be very politically powerful, to go open the gateway to allow the Reapers in? Or telling the Collectors to stealthily abduct millions of human beings over the course of two years? When Saren failed, the Collectors went in as a backup plan.
As for the body surviving re-entry, bear in mind that Shepard wasn't naked. Even if the suit didn't protect him much, it probably protected him to the point that his body didn't disintegrate when he went into the planet.
I tend to think that the Collectors would have been a backup plan. Which one is easier? Sovereign telling one guy (Saren), who happens to be very politically powerful, to go open the gateway to allow the Reapers in? Or telling the Collectors to stealthily abduct millions of human beings over the course of two years? When Saren failed, the Collectors went in as a backup plan.
Given the arrogance of the reapers, it kind of killed any potential they had by making a back up plan (since Saren was the backup plan in the first place) so a back up back up plan is even more absurd. Not to mention the origin of the Collectors is just ridiculous given the lore as presented in ME1. All the Reapers are supposed to be asleep but Harbinger apparently has Insomnia (and if he can communicate with the collectors over such distances why'd Soveriegn bother staying withing the galaxy?) Of course this all hinged on that the Reapers returning to the galaxy on their own power would take to long which apparently it doesn't. I mean, ME2 wasn't as bad as Transformers 3 in terms of making no sense as a sequel but its one of the more senseless stories to be in a sequel.
Locclo wrote:As for the body surviving re-entry, bear in mind that Shepard wasn't naked. Even if the suit didn't protect him much, it probably protected him to the point that his body didn't disintegrate when he went into the planet.
And people have been saying that since release. It still makes no sense! Nothing the size of a man can survive atmospheric reentry. Objects many time the size of a man, with much higher densities can't! Even if his body did make it through reentry (which is horribly impossible by any logic) the force of gravity would literally splat him into a billion pieces on the planet surface. There'd be no body to recover. That entire scenario was absurd (not to mention there was really no need to kill Shepard). Everyone thought he was crazy after ME1 and ignored him. Renegade Shepard would have no qualms accepting Cerberus' help, and paragon Shepard would do it for the greater good. They only killed him so they could make a shocking trailer.
Locclo wrote:As for the body surviving re-entry, bear in mind that Shepard wasn't naked. Even if the suit didn't protect him much, it probably protected him to the point that his body didn't disintegrate when he went into the planet.
And people have been saying that since release. It still makes no sense! Nothing the size of a man can survive atmospheric reentry. Objects many time the size of a man, with much higher densities can't! Even if his body did make it through reentry (which is horribly impossible by any logic) the force of gravity would literally splat him into a billion pieces on the planet surface. There'd be no body to recover. That entire scenario was absurd (not to mention there was really no need to kill Shepard). Everyone thought he was crazy after ME1 and ignored him. Renegade Shepard would have no qualms accepting Cerberus' help, and paragon Shepard would do it for the greater good. They only killed him so they could make a shocking trailer.
You're assuming that the planet is similar to Earth. A human could easily survive re-entry to something much smaller mass (as they wouldn't be going nearly as fast), or something with a much thicker atmosphere (as the drag would be enough to make your terminal velocity rather slow).
Grakmar wrote:
You're assuming that the planet is similar to Earth. A human could easily survive re-entry to something much smaller mass (as they wouldn't be going nearly as fast), or something with a much thicker atmosphere (as the drag would be enough to make your terminal velocity rather slow).
Given that its an ice planet I doubt the atmosphere is thick, and it seems to be earth sized. Bioware aren't rocket scientists. I doubt they considered much of anything into how his body miraculously survived. But now we're really just hair splitting the finer points of suspension of disbelief which is a lost battle in itself
Scrazza wrote:Fecking idiots. They didn't even put skyrim in the list.
But...that didn't have an ending.
No really, there is technically no ending to Skyrim. No end screen or cinematic, just an in-game conversation, and you continue playing.
The game didn't have a single challenge after I got to level 10 or something. If your gonna make a game so vast and "realistic" looking. At least prevent a power gamer from ruining the experience with a single skill.
GOnna have to agree about Skyrim. I actually found the main storyline horribly bland. The Skyrim Civil War and the conflict between the Thalmor and the Empire was infinitely more interesting but played little to no role in the storyline (here's hoping for Expansions!)
LordofHats wrote:
And I just died a little on the inside again *cries*
At least the revolt of the oppressed class (mages) was slightly more interesting than "Kill the Archdemon (Sauron)."
That being said, DA's strength, both games, was the world, not the story. Well, and the some of characters. Morrigan, Shale, and Shen were all interesting.
LordofHats wrote:
Shepard doesn't work for Cerberus cause they brought him back from the dead (how'd his body survive reentry anyway?)...
That's an easy sci-fi handwave in a universe with ambiguous psychic powers.
LordofHats wrote:
....he did it cause the story dictated it.
Well, yeah. And Romeo killed himself because the story dictated it; ie. found himself in a particular situation. Not that ME2 is Shakespeare, but contrivance basically comes with the territory of fiction.
LordofHats wrote:
A much better story was waiting in ME2 and it was just never used. THe Collectors are a rather blatant example of sequel syndrome. If these guys were lying around why the crap did Sovereign need Saren in the first place? Hell, what's the point of Sovereign being around in first place?
Saren is an easy explanation: he was connected to the body connected to the Citadel.
The Collectors can be considered a contingency plan.
Sovereign had to be there for reasons of trust and capacity.
Ok guys, does anyone remember Heart of Darkness? 1998ish jump and run? Little boy fighting against shadows?
The story was simple (you want to rescue your dog) but the ending was awesome. One of the hardest fights I ever had (on hard obviously) but soooooo deserving. Still smile when I think about it.
Greets
Schepp himself
P.S. All of Skyrims storylines are anti-climatic and boring as hell. No real personalities in this game ffs!
I thought Parthenax had personality, but he also had the side of effect of making me hate the Blades' guts.
At least the revolt of the oppressed class (mages) was slightly more interesting than "Kill the Archdemon (Sauron).
I agree that it was more interesting but this is my basic gripe with DA2: "Okay DA2. Mages good. Templars bad. I get that. The Mages are being treated horribly and are being oppressed by an autocratic/theocratic system where they're less than human and I should support them. Well. Why does every mage I try to help go DARK-SIDE! I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for them but come on. I'd like to help a mage who doesn't resort to blood magic the moment the going gets rough. I mean come on. I have to side with the Templars on this one these mages are out of control!"
That's of course ignoring that there is no main storyline in DA2, just a loose affiliation of side-quests and side plots (act 2 especially had nothing to do with anything). The only semblance of a main plot appears at the very end of the game and it kind of comes front left field cause there was nothing in the middle to connect point A and point Z. I was especially kind of peeved at Flemeth/Leliana's Token appearances in the game which served no purpose at all but to wave around popular Origin's characters in an otherwise crappy game. I'm probably more peeved about Flemeth though cause she was supposed to play a major role in the story, but she kind of doesn't.
I do however give you know who blowing up you know what Most Awesome Moment of Gaming 2011. That scene was epic.
Schepp himself wrote:Ok guys, does anyone remember Heart of Darkness? 1998ish jump and run? Little boy fighting against shadows?
The story was simple (you want to rescue your dog) but the ending was awesome. One of the hardest fights I ever had (on hard obviously) but soooooo deserving. Still smile when I think about it.
Greets
Schepp himself
P.S. All of Skyrims storylines are anti-climatic and boring as hell. No real personalities in this game ffs!
Henners91 wrote:We can say that old games had better endings, but I think the technology is what's made delivery so much more memorable; a script still has to come alive, no matter how good.
That being said, my list worried me; I know that games have emotionally affected me in the past (Mafia I anyone? Wait... I forgot about that, maybe it should have gone on the list ) and yet I struggle to remember them (Oooh Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30!). Holy crap, so many games do have good endings if you struggle to remember them...
Really?
So, if i make a game with great graphics but a script where every other word is a mix of Clock, Mushroom or Tiger you think it's gonna have a 'memorable ending'?
And by memorable i mean good.
Give it an above-average script, though not quite to the standards of old (when Chaucer was apparently doing all the writing) and you will probably blow me away.
Not that I am defending CoD here. The only good CoD ending was CoD4's and that was just a dramatic setpiece. MW2 was orful and Black Ops was incredibly underwhelming (CoD had given us a tradition of beating bad guys to a pulp and all I do is drown the guy?)
So...
It's almost just about visual quality for you?
LordofHats wrote:
I agree that it was more interesting but this is my basic gripe with DA2: "Okay DA2. Mages good. Templars bad. I get that. The Mages are being treated horribly and are being oppressed by an autocratic/theocratic system where they're less than human and I should support them. Well. Why does every mage I try to help go DARK-SIDE! I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for them but come on. I'd like to help a mage who doesn't resort to blood magic the moment the going gets rough. I mean come on. I have to side with the Templars on this one these mages are out of control!"
I never read blood magic as evil, per se. It uses blood to power spells, but its not specific on where that blood comes from.
LordofHats wrote:
I agree that it was more interesting but this is my basic gripe with DA2: "Okay DA2. Mages good. Templars bad. I get that. The Mages are being treated horribly and are being oppressed by an autocratic/theocratic system where they're less than human and I should support them. Well. Why does every mage I try to help go DARK-SIDE! I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for them but come on. I'd like to help a mage who doesn't resort to blood magic the moment the going gets rough. I mean come on. I have to side with the Templars on this one these mages are out of control!"
I never read blood magic as evil, per se. It uses blood to power spells, but its not specific on where that blood comes from.
IIRC, it's mentioned in the Mage's Guild main quest (I may be wrong) that some students were trying to use human sacrifices as fuel for magic.
That said, it's hard to believe that anything happy and fun can come from a guy who's fueling his spells by ramming a dagger into his arm.
Yeah. That and the effects of blood magic have a tendency to be quite disastrous. Mutation into an abomination, possession, sociopathic tendencies. Blood magic is obviously set up by the story-line to be the Dragon Age Dark Side of the Force? Why? WHo knows. The story just set it up that way (That and most of them end up killing somebody, or trying, or doing something else that I assume is morally reprehensible).
I thought Crysis should have been further up. As well as Dark Souls. Definately Dark Souls for the number of people who just plainly agree that its an amazing and insanely rewarding game, with a great original mechanism idea.
Locclo wrote:
IIRC, it's mentioned in the Mage's Guild main quest (I may be wrong) that some students were trying to use human sacrifices as fuel for magic.
Sure, but the blood magic you can actually use in the game is based on your own blood, or the blood of people that are attacking you.
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LordofHats wrote:Yeah. That and the effects of blood magic have a tendency to be quite disastrous. Mutation into an abomination, possession, sociopathic tendencies. Blood magic is obviously set up by the story-line to be the Dragon Age Dark Side of the Force? Why? WHo knows. The story just set it up that way (That and most of them end up killing somebody, or trying, or doing something else that I assume is morally reprehensible).
I suspect that's mostly the result of prejudice. Blood magic is banned, and frowned upon even more than ordinary magic, so people that use it are likely to be sociopathic to some degree anyway.
I don't recall it being established as being more likely to cause possession or abomination, those seemed to be pretty even across all mages, and even if that was mentioned it can easily be chalked up to Templar propaganda.
Its specifically mentioned within the lore of DAO as being dark magic and in both games is portrayed as evil and immoral. There's a codex entry about its corrupting influence. I mean, I've had complaints about the stupidity behind the dark side of the force (so if I get angry I'm automatically evil? That's nice), but that's the way its presented.
LordofHats wrote:Its specifically mentioned within the lore of DAO as being dark magic and in both games is portrayed as evil and immoral. There's a codex entry about its corrupting influence. I mean, I've had complaints about the stupidity behind the dark side of the force (so if I get angry I'm automatically evil? That's nice), but that's the way its presented.
Sure, but the Templars are also presented as being prejudicial, and in many ways just as evil. The driving theme of the game is that there really isn't a "right" choice.
Indeed, that's 90% of the reason for Morrigan to exist as a character.
dogma wrote:Sure, but the Templars are also presented as being prejudicial, and in many ways just as evil. The driving theme of the game is that there really isn't a "right" choice.
They are and it seems obvious to me that I'm supposed to feel bad for the mages, but its really hard when they're mostly made up of abominations, serial killers, necromancers, and murders. Almost every mage in DA2 turns out that way.
It's also not just the Templars, the Dalish are the same in their opinions of blood magic.
LordofHats wrote:
They are and it seems obvious to me that I'm supposed to feel bad for the mages, but its really hard when they're mostly made up of abominations, serial killers, necromancers, and murders. Almost every mage in DA2 turns out that way.
I'm not sure there's enough of a moral high ground in DA, or DA2, to call anyone a murderer.
Then there's the Templar interrogating the Dwarf, his name escapes me (the dwarf's), under threat of torture.
LordofHats wrote:
It's also not just the Templars, the Dalish are the same in their opinions of blood magic.
They're also gypsy terrorists.
Its basically just a crapsack world in which either everyone is evil, or no one is. Well, or one in which the idea of good vs. evil is just based on preference (ie. just like the real world).
) and yet I struggle to remember them (Oooh Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30!). Holy crap, so many games do have good endings if you struggle to remember them...
