So, I've heard a few horror stories from people about being refused the privilege of playing in a store because their minis weren't based. I'm not saying these things are true, I know people sometimes obfuscate the truth to make themselves look better, but I'm just wondering how widespread the feeling is. Do you think that minis aren't complete without basing?

To me basing is optional. If the model is painted and 'complete' then I really am not going to worry about if anything is on the base ... but I do like a clean looking base (i usually paint my bases after i paint the model .. messy like that...)

It depends on what you define as basing.

Does merely painting it count?

Or do you have to put something on it (flock/rubble etc.)?

That is the real question, as a plain base with nothing done to it looks a little silly.

I don't care what condition it's in to play, but painting a model up and not basing it is like buying an oil painting and then thumb-tacking it to the wall like a college dorm room poster. Sure its the same painting, but what a shame not to have it framed.

Jimsolo wrote:So, I've heard a few horror stories from people about being refused the privilege of playing in a store because their minis weren't based. I'm not saying these things are true, I know people sometimes obfuscate the truth to make themselves look better, but I'm just wondering how widespread the feeling is. Do you think that minis aren't complete without basing?

For game play I don't care. To be considered "done" for table top or tourney play then a simple painted base is fine by me.

For friendly play I would accept a simple green or brown painted base.

For tournament play I would at least want to see sand on it painted. Flock and all the extra bits are just a bonus.

With that said I only base an army when the whole thing is painted....

powerclaw wrote:I don't care what condition it's in to play, but painting a model up and not basing it is like buying an oil painting and then thumb-tacking it to the wall like a college dorm room poster. Sure its the same painting, but what a shame not to have it framed.

Meh. Some of my lines have extensive basing (demons), some moderate (eldar - city ruins) and some focus on the mini with the base just painted green. Basing can help, but it can also take away from the mini itself.

For me, a model that has been painted and not based isn't completed. I mean if you're going to paint a miniature, why not go the extra mile and base it?

Of course, it's not like I would refuse to play unbased or unpainted miniatures, I just think that basing a miniature makes it look more complete.

I dont understand why you wouldnt base your models if you painted them?

Snarky wrote:For me, a model that has been painted and not based isn't completed. I mean if you're going to paint a miniature, why not go the extra mile and base it?

Of course, it's not like I would refuse to play unbased or unpainted miniatures, I just think that basing a miniature makes it look more complete.

There it is. Painted figures are just incomplete without basing.

Why would you refuse to play someone who hasn't painted/based? Does it somehow magically change the way the units function on the board? Yeah if the player never intends to paint them it can get annoying, but if someone just assembled a brand new unit and wanted to test it out, are you going to say no just because it isn't painted/based? I wouldn't.

For me a base is something that stops my model from falling over, not a picture of scenery from whatever world I feel like displaying. My bases are all black and I see no reason to change that. IMO it also looks less stupid then when you have your guys based on desert bases and play on a snow board or something.

By based, do you mean painted base, flocked, or what?

I've never heard of someone being not allowed to play at a FLGS because of basing. Saddly, At my FLGS, only about 10-25% of WM and 40k models have anything more than primer on them, so basing isn't even a consideration for most folks.

For my personal standards, a model isn't finished until it's based. I still occasionally play with some of my old models that have only a painted base, but for anything from the past 6 years, it never saw the table until it had been at least painted, flocked and drybrushed.

I used to be in the no basing crowd until I realized you can base a entire army in one night. It is so simple there is no reason not to do it

I paint all of my bases green.

I also shop where I play.

If a store doesn't want to allow me to use my green painted bases, then they can do without my business.

I base all of my models, and wouldn't call them complete without a painted base.

How you paint and base your models is your business.

I'll still play you. For a GW store to say you can't play without a painted base is more than a little silly, IMHO.

I base most of my models and I've always found it to be easy, but to me the basing is optional. Its because the basing doesnt always match the board you're playing on, and just plain non based black looks alright on any board, but grass flock base on a city board looks a little funny.

Well, as been said a number of times already, a model isn't complete till the basing is done.
I really don't care how expertly it's based, but FFS, do SOMETHING.
Paint it black, brown, or green. Sand flock it and paint or wash it. Go crazy with every single model and add grass, rubble, weeds, skulls, helmets, weapons, vehicle and building dibris, grots, what have you...
Just do SOMETHING.
I'll still play with someone who hasn't based their models, but I sure wont give them any points for the lack of effort.

For what my opinion is worth, I don't really care. My problem is that I don't feel comfortable enough with my basing skills to add any flock to mine. I paint the base black, but beyond that I don't want to do anything more with it. My problem comes when someone insists that my mini is therefore 'not complete.'

A) If I don't want to glue dirt to my mini, I shouldn't have to.
B) If the mini has to have flocking material on it to be 'completed,' then why didn't they include the flock in the kit I bought?
C) But Jim, they don't include your paints, and you still have to put THOSE on your model to have it be done. Touche. However, the back of the little box told me I needed paints. It didn't tell me I have to flock the things.

I don't object to the practice of basing, or the preference for it. I have an issue with people telling me that I have to do it in order to play in the store. That seems like it's crossing a line. Has anyone had any experience with this? As I've said, I've heard stories, here on Dakka, about this happening, but no one has ever corroborated them, or managed to provide specific details. Is this just an urban legend, or are there stores that actually deny you the ability to play there because you won't glue schmutz to your model?

Basing is entirely esthetic, the idea of not letting someone play if they don't base their models is ridiculous. It would be like telling someone they're not a good enough painter to be able to play. There's no in-game reason to make a fancy base, or even to paint your models if that's your preference.

I can see a GW store wanting to have painted models on the table as a showcase-type situation, but not letting someone play because they like their bases just fine how they are is ridiculous.

In my opinion, it just ain't complete. In friendly games unbased is fine though.

i never used to base my models but when i completed a recent assault squad i decide to try basing them and see how i liked the look. they were awesome hence now the everything will eventually be based. but not til they are finished being painted

For the most part, my bases don't have any flock, or sand, or anything on them, I've done them all in a dark grey with drybrushed lighter greys, because I'm doing it as concrete / tarmac, and when I make my game board it'll be a ruined city to match.

I voted "Yes. If it isn't based, it isn't finished.", but that's only because I think basing is part of the entire process. An unbased mini is an unfinished mini.

That being said, being denied a game because your minis are unfinished is just mean.

I'm of the feeling that basing is optional. I'll say that basing does look really nice on a model, but I'm not going to fault anyone for not doing it. Some people just prefer the look of the black base, and on one hand, models based for one terrain setting look a bit out of place on an entirely different one. I know one guy at my FLGS who had a lot of beautifully done snow-based models, but they were completely out of place on the majority of players' grass mats.

Jimsolo wrote:So, I've heard a few horror stories from people about being refused the privilege of playing in a store because their minis weren't based. I'm not saying these things are true, I know people sometimes obfuscate the truth to make themselves look better, but I'm just wondering how widespread the feeling is. Do you think that minis aren't complete without basing?

You pretty much answered the question for yourself, in my opinion.

No basing is just fine for regular games with your friendly group and the like. But if you're playing in a tournament or other form of organized play(escalation league, etc) where there are guidelines set forth and one of them is "models must be based"--then you shouldn't expect any kind of leeway.

I think ultimately, the biggest confusion would be as to what exactly counts as 'based'

Every game system that I know of has the bulk of its mechanics work off of the base for the overwhelming majority of its models.

Yes, absolutely, the base it required.

oni wrote:Every game system that I know of has the bulk of its mechanics work off of the base for the overwhelming majority of its models.

Yes, absolutely, the base it required.

were talking about a decorated base.

You should only need the model assembled and on it's base. The requirements that armies be painted and base be decorated is BS IMO.

I like basing my models. Makes them look cooler to me. If you don't want to base yours then I get a +1 to BS when shooting and +1 to WS when in hand to hand....=P

Here is my Biker Boss with no basing.


And here it is WITH basing.


Which one is finished?

For me, the model isn't finished if it isn't 'based'... but 'based' doesn't necessarily mean texturing. Just painting the base in a block colour (or not painting it at all, but not having stray streaks of paint all over it from painting the model) is fine.

If you want your models on ugly black bases, be my guest. I used to be delusional and said models looked better with black bases "since they never look out of place" or whatever, but once I stopped being a lazy ass and actually based them, I've never looked back. Models aren't done until they've at least got some gravel on their base.

I wouldn't turn down a game against someone that didn't but I personally don't put a model on the table until it is complete. To me this includes basing.

Oddly enough my Ork Bikers that came in the Battalion Box didn't include bases while the 2 boxes I bought did.

Other:

Models are not complete until they are based.
However, a person should not be prevented from playing just because they have not based their models.

I do agree with insaniak though. Basing can simply be patching and painting the base itself for a nice uniform platform to showcase the model.

My personal preference is to texture, but I'm not going to force that on someone else.

All my finished models are based in sharp builders sand, had the same tub of sand for almost 10 years now. I like to make sure if i play I'm going to try and have the best painted minies on the table becouse every one knows "The dice Gods favor the best painted army"

If people include 'painting the base a uniform color' under the heading of 'basing,' then I withdraw my query. I can understand a Games Workshop requesting you have your bases at least match to some degree of uniformity. That's sensible.

Mine have painted bases.

Some might have sand+paint.

Most are just paint on the base, though. They are as done as I wish to do them.

If it gets me disallowed from playing in stores, then so be it. I play in three clubs, all of which are NOT in stores. ALL have beer available, and I don't have to put up with sales trolls, either.

People can play with unpainted, unbased models I don't really care.

Calling them complete models without at least the base being painted makes no sense to me.

Not basing is basically same thing as not painting your mini. I do sometimes play with unfinished bases but that only concerns minis can stand with unfinished bases (that is only 2 bases in my ork army and they are getting based in the next batch) and I usually finish their bases asap.

Here's something else to consdier. Much of the "it looks fine without basing" may be a specific GW phenomena.

I don't like unbased models, but I have to admit that because so many GW kits are plastic kits whose feet affix directly to the base without slottas, it actually doesn't look too bad when a well painted model is sitting on a smooth plinth of plain black plastic.

Put an army of painted metal figs on slottas on the table without basing and the ugly groove in between the feet of the model, half filled with a strip of pewter would be much more visually jarring. You'd certainly have many fewer people saying "it looks fine without basing".

Not basing is pretty cheesy, it's usually the fastest part of the modelling process.

And it makes the models look soo much better.

It's the old argument of hobby vs game.

Personally I'm into the hobby and the game, unfortunately my basing skills leave much to be desired, but I'm learning.

As for playing someone with unbased models? I'm used to playing CMGs like D&D minis or Star Wars minis, they have plain black bases. But then again I'll play a game if someone is using grey plastic models. It's not up to me to decide how someone else enjoys their hobby.

Yes based models look far better, but it's too petty to argue over something like that. Play the game.

Thing is though, for the sake of a coat of 1-2 greys you can happily make it a tarmac, or concrete, and it's done to a... reasonable standard, it's just fighting in a city, or industrial complex. etc, and it's a legitimate base, I can't really thing of much you can do for variety there. Maybe the odd curb, or some street lines, maybe part of a manhole cover here and there.

On larger bases rubble / building corners mayhaps.

Just lack of effort really :3

Ovion wrote:
Just lack of effort really :3

This is it basically.

Ovion wrote:I think ultimately, the biggest confusion would be as to what exactly counts as 'based'

'3 colors and based' is a short descriptive term to describe a more detailed standard which has been in place for decades within wargaming. So if you are referring to the 'based' part of '3 colors and based' they don't mean a model that is silver metal, grey plastic, green stuff and black base...

When I say 'what counts as based' I mean 'officially'/generally is simply painting it sufficent, or does it supposedly require anything else, such as sand or flock.

Basing means on a base.

My personal (!) opinion is that, unless a mini is properly based, it´s not yet finished. A simple base is quickly done, and a painted mini on a plain black base looks unfinished.

However, as with painted minis themselves, I would never refuse to play someone because he did not base his models. An official tournament is a different story, but in a regular store game or whatever it does not really matter. Different people have different interests in different aspects of the hobby.

Doesn't matter if it's painted, flocked, resin scenic, or just neatly painted black, a coherent and neat base 'finishes' the model.

Personally I find that an un-base miniture remove nothing, but a proper one adds a lot.

My minis still have a black base for a few reasons. I'm still concentrating on assembling and setting up an army, overlooking something minor like basing does not bother me. I've also not decided on what type of base I want and how much I want to put into it. Neither do I want to paint them green or yellow simply to please some one i dont know or care about. I will get them done eventually, but right now it's simply not my priority

From a painting/hobby point of view the model is not finished till something is done with the base. Most of the time it really brings the mini to life.

Eilif wrote:Here's something else to consdier. Much of the "it looks fine without basing" may be a specific GW phenomena.

It's not a GW specific phenomena. Even if you have to buy other bases/card to base your models with integrated bases, you still have to do some kind of basing. When I was younger I glued Old Glory, Future Wars, Battletech and Kryomek figures to bases and didn't usually do anything with the bases at all. I know I'm not everybody, but it's not GW specific.

I'd never refuse to play against someone because they have not based their models, but I also don't refuse to play against unpainted models.

My main thought on the topic though: basing to a table top standard (sand, gravel, etc., no fancy flock, grass or debris) is so incredibly easy and fast, and is significantly easier and faster than painting the model to a table top standard, I have to wonder why someone wouldn't base a painted model. Paint on some elmers, dunk them in some basing material, set aside to dry. Often the basing won't even require any painting to achieve a decent look and if it does you can probably get away with a quick wash to give it some depth. Then just rim the base with whatever color looks best and you're done. Simple basing seems to make a big difference also, it just seems to say "this model is complete".

I prefer based, but if it's on the base it is meant to be on it's fine. A slight annoyance is the commander models on a larger base, they may be converted a bit but the base is still over sized and has a fair bit of empty space.

I love basing and consider each base to be a miniature diorama and try to make them very detailed and unique.

But I wouldn't begrudge anyone for not basing.

I prefer to base my models myself, but I don't mind if other people would rather not.

Admittedly, it does look rather odd when you've got guys based as if they are on a daemon world fighting on the idyllic green field board.

amen brother

and it is easy to base
simply put pva glue on the base
put the base in sand and you are done

and i like the look but to each his own

Alot of folks seem to feel that their basing skills are inadequate. I can see where one might be intimidated by the amazing custom basing jobs seen online or in WD, but basing is really quite simple. Sand/flock, painted and then drybrushed is an extremely easy and cheap method that can be customized for nearly any color of earth or rubble and looks many times nicer than a plain base.

Just give it a try.

DarknessEternal wrote:Basing means on a base.

Inventing your own definition for widely used hobby terms does not make you any less wrong.

Brother SRM wrote:

Eilif wrote:Here's something else to consdier. Much of the "it looks fine without basing" may be a specific GW phenomena.

It's not a GW specific phenomena. Even if you have to buy other bases/card to base your models with integrated bases, you still have to do some kind of basing. When I was younger I glued Old Glory, Future Wars, Battletech and Kryomek figures to bases and didn't usually do anything with the bases at all. I know I'm not everybody, but it's not GW specific.

Perhaps I over-spoke. I agree that it is not exclusively GW, but I still think that the opinion that "it looks fine without basing" will find far more acceptance when one is speaking about a plain black non-slotta base. It just looks alot "neater" than an unbased slotta.

Eilif wrote:
Inventing your own definition for widely used hobby terms does not make you any less wrong.

DakkaDakka remains the only place I've ever heard someone refer to "basing" and mean "with lots of fancy scenery, colors, and terrain". Not once have I met a single person anywhere else that thought of basing as such.

DarkWind wrote:

oni wrote:Every game system that I know of has the bulk of its mechanics work off of the base for the overwhelming majority of its models.

Yes, absolutely, the base it required.

were talking about a decorated base.

You should only need the model assembled and on it's base. The requirements that armies be painted and base be decorated is BS IMO.

that's not good enough for the neckbeards. they're just little plastic men after all. I've seen people spray their entire armies with krylon fusion so they resemble toy soldiers. did the neckbeards get mad? yes, did they refuse to play? yes. if you refuse to play someone because their army isn't painted/based, or not painted to your liking, it makes you look really bad IMO. I base my models by painting the outer ring goblin green, then base with the modelling snow. it's simple and looks good.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Inventing your own definition for widely used hobby terms does not make you any less wrong.

DakkaDakka remains the only place I've ever heard someone refer to "basing" and mean "with lots of fancy scenery, colors, and terrain". Not once have I met a single person anywhere else that thought of basing as such.

Sorry man, you're still wrong, though I'll admit you're halfway there.

Thee wargaming community uses the term "basing" to refer to two things.

The specific size of the base, as in
"how are you basing those napoleonics?"
"I'm using 20mm squares"

And the the landscaping of the base, (which doesn't have to be elaborate) as in.
"How are you basing your napoleonics?"
"I'm going for a simple field look, green flock with some tufts of foliage"

Admittedly there is some context to take into account., but when people ask how you're basing your models, they aren't asking whether or not you're basing your models.

Eilif wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Inventing your own definition for widely used hobby terms does not make you any less wrong.

DakkaDakka remains the only place I've ever heard someone refer to "basing" and mean "with lots of fancy scenery, colors, and terrain". Not once have I met a single person anywhere else that thought of basing as such.

Sorry man, you're still wrong, though I'll admit you're halfway there.

I'm wrong that I've never heard of it elsewhere? Do you secretly live in my pocket and record my experiences?

*Other*

I don't even care if you've painted it.


Eric

To me a model isn't finished if it isn't based. However, I can't see refusing to let someone play because of it. A bit redic. if you ask me.

Context is key and its missing a bit for the poll so I chose the tourny option. In friendly games, I don't require painted models so no basing effort required for those as I'm fine with playing against the great grey/pewter horde. I personally consider basing part of painting and don't feel my models are finished till I do something with the base. If a tourney or local store requires painted models for play, I'd expect them to include basing to be part of that requirement.

I did a lot of my old Tyranids in a weird brown color, flat, with no detailing or other treatment, and said "It's Mud!"

I have trouble even looking at these models now. I'm still not a great painter, but I've gotten at least a bit better, and try to at least put sand on bases to give them some texture as well as to hide slots or make integrated bases fit in batter.

Only for Tournaments.

*other*

No, a model shouldn't have to be based at all, I do base mine, but that is mainly because 1 - I'm a mediocre painter and the base helps to show what I'm going for. And 2 - I am currently working with a lot of old 2nd Ed metals so the basing helps hide the gaps.

Of course I started when pretty much just buying the model was enough, anything went, I mean a hill could be a book and a tea towel and you could make vehicles out of deodorant bottles, lol.

If the event requires appearance scores, then 3 colors and based means adding a scenic element not being on a base.

If you don't like it, don't participate in the event.

I consider basing a model to be immensely important, as I create my army fluff before I actually start painting. This gets the colour scheme and base planet sorted, which influences the basing of the army.
I also find it easier to paint the bass FIRST then paint the model afterwards, touching up the base if I need to. Then any flock/snow goes on after the whole things painted.
Only then do I consider the model finished

My personal preference is that my models aren't finished until the base is textured and painted. But that's just me.

That said I do get a bit disappointed when I see some lovely painted models and the bases are left plain black or are just given a simple coat of paint. For me it just seems to let the whole model as a piece down. But that's not to say it's wrong.

But this is just my opinion and personal preference. If someone chooses not to texture or paint their bases that then that's entirely up to them. I'm not in any position to tell people what they should or shouldn't do.

For just casual games? If painting isn't required, why should basing be? And I've never heard of a store (outside of GW stores in the UK in the 90's) that required painted models.

For a tournament or league that requires painted and based, then that's the rules. It's up to the player to decide if he wants to play or not.

But for casual/friendly/pickup games, no basing needed.

Eilif wrote:[Thee wargaming community uses the term "basing" to refer to two things.

The specific size of the base, as in
"how are you basing those napoleonics?"
"I'm using 20mm squares"

And the the landscaping of the base, (which doesn't have to be elaborate) as in.
"How are you basing your napoleonics?"
"I'm going for a simple field look, green flock with some tufts of foliage"

Admittedly there is some context to take into account., but when people ask how you're basing your models, they aren't asking whether or not you're basing your models.

This. There's also a classic (mostly coming from the historical wargames community) strain of players who refuse to ever field an unfinished model.

I don't consider a model finished without a textured/painted/modeled base. That being said, I will respect someone else's right to do whatever they want with their own models; they just likely won't be considered "finished" if it's a tournament with paint scoring.

I've played many friendly pickup games against unpainted/unbased opponents, though if given the choice between a pickup game with a painted opponent, or an unpainted opponent, the painted one is usually going to win out. As a rule of thumb I always prefer to bring my nicest-looking models to a game with a stranger; against friends I might bring some unpainted/incomplete stuff that I'm working on.

I consider basing necessary for the model to be complete, but totally optional for gaming. It's really easy, but if someone doesn't want to base them (whatever the reason) I'll still play them.

No, its not needed. However it lookes nice to play against a army that has recived that kinda attention from its owner.

Luco wrote:To me a model isn't finished if it isn't based. However, I can't see refusing to let someone play because of it. A bit redic. if you ask me.

I really hope nobody here thought this was honestly a point of contention. Yes, to myself and many others a model isn't finished unless it is based. However, I'm pretty positive anyone and everyone whose played a wargame has played against an army where at least some (if not all) models weren't complete. A figure doesn't need to be "complete" to see the tabletop for a casual game, it's just nicer when it is. I might come off as a bit of a painting/modeling snob sometimes, but I'll still never say no to someone whose models aren't finished, or they aren't finished to my definition of the term. To assume otherwise is ridiculous.

You either go hard, or you go home. How hard is it to glue something on there? You don't even have to paint it nowadays.

Brother SRM wrote:

Luco wrote:To me a model isn't finished if it isn't based. However, I can't see refusing to let someone play because of it. A bit redic. if you ask me.

I really hope nobody here thought this was honestly a point of contention. Yes, to myself and many others a model isn't finished unless it is based. However, I'm pretty positive anyone and everyone whose played a wargame has played against an army where at least some (if not all) models weren't complete. A figure doesn't need to be "complete" to see the tabletop for a casual game, it's just nicer when it is. I might come off as a bit of a painting/modeling snob sometimes, but I'll still never say no to someone whose models aren't finished, or they aren't finished to my definition of the term. To assume otherwise is ridiculous.

This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play. I like the plain black bases, and while I've never been to a tourney where they required me to glue dirt on my mini, I'd like to know if that's one of those things I need to worry about. There's lots of ridiculous things that happen in games stores/games clubs and lots of ridiculous things that are only rumored to happen. I'm trying to ascertain if this is fact or fiction.

And on a completely off-topic and unrelated note, SRM, when are we going to get to see more of your Crimson Fists? I haven't seen any new ones in the Showcase in a while...(I need my fix.)

Jimsolo wrote:This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play.

My brother has been asked to not use his models in a GW store because he had the trims painted black, though the top was flocked and painted, though this was back in like... 1995? And it wasn't due to them being black, it was due to them not being exactly like the bases Eavy Metal were doing.

I don't see why anyone these days would refuse on the grounds of the base being unpainted when you see so many entire armies not painted, but the world is a big place, and there's bound to be people out there who hold this opinion.

See, Loki, you're the first person I've heard a story like this from who I consider to be a rational, level-headed person. Don't get offended when I ask this, but had your brother done anything that would warrant them trying to find an excuse to ask him not to come back? It's just such a weird reason to ask someone not to play that I have trouble wrapping my head around it. What did they want him to do exactly? Extend the flock all the way down the edges to the table?

My personal preference is that a model isn't finished without some form of texture on the base - or a resin base with additional details, of course. I wouldn't let this preference get in the way of a casual game, however.

At a tournament, the TO's rule applies - at the European Team Challenge Warmachine/Hordes events, for example, the full arm must be painted, and the models *must* be based in order for it to be eligible.

Personally, I've been fine playing against a can of Mountain Dew proxied for a Dreadnought, so it would be just silly if I were to complain about a base not being painted.

Tournaments, I would expect the army to be painted and based, but I wouldn't care if the base was painted or not.

At my home... well, see Mountain Dew example.

Ignoring the stuff about playing and just ansewing the poll, not if it's not based its not finnished. Would i play against an unfinished army is a diffrent question.

I don't think I would ever refuse to play someone who hasn't based their army, but It's always great when people try. Some people come up with the coolest ideas for scenery!

I myself think basing is really fun though! I love brainstorming new and creative themes to fit my entire army. The fact that it's so easy to do is also a big plus.

-Loki- wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play.

My brother has been asked to not use his models in a GW store because he had the trims painted black, though the top was flocked and painted, though this was back in like... 1995? And it wasn't due to them being black, it was due to them not being exactly like the bases Eavy Metal were doing.

I don't see why anyone these days would refuse on the grounds of the base being unpainted when you see so many entire armies not painted, but the world is a big place, and there's bound to be people out there who hold this opinion.

I've heard this was the case at some point with some git at GW making a rule that you had to do your bases this way. I think it ended when some higher ups in GW went in to play a game, their models weren't done that way, and they found out about the rule and declared it to be pretty daft. I think they wanted Goblin Green on the rims of the base or something silly.

Jimsolo wrote:This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play. I like the plain black bases, and while I've never been to a tourney where they required me to glue dirt on my mini, I'd like to know if that's one of those things I need to worry about. There's lots of ridiculous things that happen in games stores/games clubs and lots of ridiculous things that are only rumored to happen. I'm trying to ascertain if this is fact or fiction.

And on a completely off-topic and unrelated note, SRM, when are we going to get to see more of your Crimson Fists? I haven't seen any new ones in the Showcase in a while...(I need my fix.)

I've never heard of anyone getting thrown out of a store but that's too extreme! It's a hobby, and nobody should be thrown out of a store for being less talented in the artistic part of it. I doubt the validity of that story, but you never know!

As for my Crimson Fists, check the link in my sig! I've been running a P&M blog and posting new stuff regularly. I'll post in the showcase once I finish my year long painting commitment!

Having not read 3 pages of people talking, the numbers on the poll are worrying. So many people are fine with empty plain bases? Does no one take time or pride in their models? FFS you spend hundreds of dollars on these things you'd think you would want them to look as good as possible. I mean if looks don't matter, why not proxy the entire game with $.99 chess set pieces on plain bases?

And basing isn't a matter of being artistic. It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

I'm not saying I would refuse to play you, as that is childish. But to call a model complete when the base is empty is just wrong.

It's like calling a house complete when zero landscaping has been done. Sure the house is there, functional and painted. But who of you has absolutely no landscaping at their house?

Jimsolo wrote:See, Loki, you're the first person I've heard a story like this from who I consider to be a rational, level-headed person. Don't get offended when I ask this, but had your brother done anything that would warrant them trying to find an excuse to ask him not to come back? It's just such a weird reason to ask someone not to play that I have trouble wrapping my head around it. What did they want him to do exactly? Extend the flock all the way down the edges to the table?

No. my brother was almost a 'model customer' to them in those days. Staff loved him.

They refused anyone trying to play without a gomblin green base, and the only flock the manager allowed was sand painted goblin green and drybrushed yellow, ala Eavy Metal. This rule didn't last long.

Aerethan wrote:It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

And it will look worse than if you had left it plain.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Aerethan wrote:It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

And it will look worse than if you had left it plain.

That's why you spend another 60 seconds to drybrush it two colors and it looks grand!

The problem I see is that when you base a mini and its on a table with a different color or terrain it looks absolutely terrible.

I have friends who don't base models simply because of that fact. Sure, basing a character is a good thing, but its the MODEL that counts not just the base.

Doctadeth wrote:The problem I see is that when you base a mini and its on a table with a different color or terrain it looks absolutely terrible.

I don't find this at all. But then I base mine so they'll be at home on most tables - dark brown, black trims and tufts of scorched grass looks good on green flocked tables, dirt with sparse grass tables, and even city tables. The only tables they look out of place on are desert and ice tables, and those are very rare where I play.


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Doctadeth wrote:I have friends who don't base models simply because of that fact. Sure, basing a character is a good thing, but its the MODEL that counts not just the base.

I base simply because it finishes the model. If it's not based, to me, it simply looks unfinished. Though i've seen overdone basing, which has overpowered the model itself. The basing should just be there to make the model itself pop more.

Doctadeth wrote:The problem I see is that when you base a mini and its on a table with a different color or terrain it looks absolutely terrible.

I have friends who don't base models simply because of that fact. Sure, basing a character is a good thing, but its the MODEL that counts not just the base.

So it's better to have models that don't match ANY board than it is to have ones that only match certain boards? Plain bases don't match anything unless you are playing on asphalt.

To be honest, I'd rather have a plain base that looked semi-okay than one that was modelled awesomely on woodland, but then placed on a citifight map. Just I find things like that really silly.

Personally, models don't seem finished to me until they've been fully painted and based with more than just gravel quickly glued to the base. Of course, I'll happily play against bare plastic as soon as a fully painted masterpiece. The hobby =/= the game.

A display piece obviously won't be complete without all of the elements that make it a good display piece complete, and naturally, that's the basing. An unbased model shouldn't be winning any painting competitions. Personally, I really like having heavy layering on my bases, not just a single layer of flocking, but multiple, thick layers of dirt, rocks, grass, shrubbery, fallen leaves and snow are things that I love just filling my bases with. That, or war-torn and destroyed cities with mud and grime everywhere. It really adds a lot of context and personality to a model, and helps to make them really look finished.

That said, I'm also guilty (notorious) of fielding largely unpainted seas of grey, and that's even without basing. As much as I love extravagancy, it really takes a lot of time and effort, it's not something someone can do overnight. I have no problem playing with or against unpainted or unbased models. Not everyone has time to paint, and not everyone enjoys the hobby aspect as I do.

Personally, I'm just fine with painting the bases, I don't play in tournaments and probably never will however I can see why some people do want other players to do this.

Brother SRM wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Aerethan wrote:It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

And it will look worse than if you had left it plain.

That's why you spend another 60 seconds to drybrush it two colors and it looks grand!

No, it'll still look like someone puked on your bases and you just painted over it. You'll never convince me this looks better.

For me I think a based model looks great, but it ruins my suspension of disbelief. I can ignore a black base. but if it's designed to gain my attention... well it usually does, and it can be jarring. Ice based models in a desert board, woodlands bases on a city one, I'd personally prefer to ignore the bases.
For the OP, I'm one of the ones who isn't allowed to play at GW because of my bases. I refuse to base them (I even asked if basing meant bases on, or bases flocked and stuff. He meant flocked) and even explained why. I've never played a game there, and almost got out of the hobby due to it. City store in Sydney for reference. I couldn't find a game, so I didn't spend anything. You know what's _really_ funny? If he'd have let me play I wouldn't have looked elsewhere for cheaper models, and would have bought my stuff there. Instead I'm on the 'not buying anything from gw again' list.

You know Col, no offense, but every time I see a post from someone in Australia, I get freaked out about the place. It just seems more and more depressing each time. Is it really so terrible, or am I just only hearing bad stories?

And, thank you, I will avoid the GW in Sydney, if it ever comes up.

I don't base mine, not yet though. The day im finished with my ork army i'll base both armies.

It has good sides and bad sides, but I must admit... parts of it really make me lose faith in humanity. This is home now, but I miss the canadian donkey-caves... they weren't as bad. Plus I could just go for a walk in the woods. Here... I go for a walk in the bush after a 2 hour drive. it's just not the same.
The GW in Parramatta (a bit further away from the sydney one) as actually really good. They would have let me play with unpainted, unbased models but by that point I'd pretty much given up on GW and was just in there to see some of the stuff close up.

Jimsolo wrote:You know Col, no offense, but every time I see a post from someone in Australia, I get freaked out about the place. It just seems more and more depressing each time. Is it really so terrible, or am I just only hearing bad stories?

And, thank you, I will avoid the GW in Sydney, if it ever comes up.

It used to be a nice place. Then GW took away our best and brightest. And replaced them with mindless drones.
I used to be a weekly attendee of the place.
Even when I moved 170km away from it.

Then something about the place changed, and I began to spend more and more time away from the place.
Parramatta has a nice Bunker, and a cool crowd - it's just too far to travel for a game (3 hours each way).

For people who find the "arctic base/desert board" problem really jarring, why not have transparent bases? I'm sure someone was making them, and its not hard to get hold of acrylic sheets and cut them to size if they aren't.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Aerethan wrote:It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

And it will look worse than if you had left it plain.

That's why you spend another 60 seconds to drybrush it two colors and it looks grand!

No, it'll still look like someone puked on your bases and you just painted over it. You'll never convince me this looks better.

Wow, hyperbolic much?
It won't look like someone "puked on your bases," it will look like this:


Which looks fething fine. It's also a great way to theme your army. If you want a winter war looking army but they're all on black bases, they'll look ridiculous. Put them on well done tundra or snow bases and they'll look fantastic. This can be done just by painting gravel blue and drybrushing it white. I'd rather have an army that looks right on one kind of table (in the case of my Marine, urban) than an army that looks awful on every single table.

Brother SRM wrote: I'd rather have an army that looks right on one kind of table (in the case of my Marine, urban) than an army that looks awful on every single table.

Fine, but you're trying to force your aesthetic sense on everyone else. Some people (like me) think that looks worse than a base which is simply a uniform color.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Aerethan wrote:It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

And it will look worse than if you had left it plain.

That's why you spend another 60 seconds to drybrush it two colors and it looks grand!

No, it'll still look like someone puked on your bases and you just painted over it. You'll never convince me this looks better.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. So while it would be incorrect to say you're wrong, you are so far off the end of the bell-curve on this one that it is completely baffling.

Kaldor wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:No, it'll still look like someone puked on your bases and you just painted over it. You'll never convince me this looks better.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. So while it would be incorrect to say you're wrong, you are so far off the end of the bell-curve on this one that it is completely baffling.

Nicely said. Just what I would have liked to say, but more elequent and polite than I would have managed!

ArbeitsSchu wrote:For people who find the "arctic base/desert board" problem really jarring, why not have transparent bases? I'm sure someone was making them, and its not hard to get hold of acrylic sheets and cut them to size if they aren't.

It's a nice idea and has been raised previously and tried. It has a couple of issues. One is that a flat base cut from acrylic is slippery on the bottom, and not being concave on the bottom won't stand nearly as well on uneven terrain. The other is that the surface picks up lots of scratches, becoming cloudy and no longer truly transparent.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Brother SRM wrote: I'd rather have an army that looks right on one kind of table (in the case of my Marine, urban) than an army that looks awful on every single table.

Fine, but you're trying to force your aesthetic sense on everyone else. Some people (like me) think that looks worse than a base which is simply a uniform color.

I'm curious, how do you handle slotta bases and make them not look horrible without adding some flock to it?

The GW store I played at as a kid didn't allow people to play without proper basing.

I miss those days, it's so tacky when you're playing on a grass mat and some guy only has black bases.


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Mannahnin wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:For people who find the "arctic base/desert board" problem really jarring, why not have transparent bases? I'm sure someone was making them, and its not hard to get hold of acrylic sheets and cut them to size if they aren't.

It's a nice idea and has been raised previously and tried. It has a couple of issues. One is that a flat base cut from acrylic is slippery on the bottom, and not being concave on the bottom won't stand nearly as well on uneven terrain. The other is that the surface picks up lots of scratches, becoming cloudy and no longer truly transparent.

I wonder if glass would work, it's quite a bit tougher than acrylics.

They'd only be extremely expensive comparatively.

Emerett wrote:The GW store I played at as a kid didn't allow people to play without proper basing.

I miss those days, it's so tacky when you're playing on a grass mat and some guy only has black bases.

Where is the Games Workshop you played in as a child, out of curiosity?

I find basing in general to be a luxury.

I base mine, but ever with Slotted bases, I cut off the slot, masking tape the base, pin, add sand, glue to the base. Voila!

Would I expect anyone else to base? No. Expecting as much (when painting alone is time consuming enough) borders on snobbery to me. What seems a no-brainer and easy to you may in fact be mind numbingly difficult for someone else.

The hobby is a luxury. Basing to a decent standard is about the easiest task in it. Certainly easier than cleaning and assembling models.

See, I find the cleaning and assembling to be the easiest and most intuitive part of the job. It's one of those things where "easy" is relative, I think.

oh good lord... BASE YOUR MODELS.

... or are we determined to make an argument over ever single step of the hobby?

next, we will be arguing over whether or not we need to assembled our models, and some people will claim their individuality and liberty are compromised by "elitists" who "force" them to build their models.

Just do it... base your models. Find something you like and do it... or don't I guess, but certainly don't try to claim that Not Basing Your Models is based on some aesthetic or moral position. Its not.

I also do not buy that its "difficult"... if you've managed to paint your model, you can base it. The counter argument sounds like a child refusing to get dressed for school because its "too hard".

Seriously folks... if this is a controversial issue for you, you are in the wrong hobby.

Battle Ready Studios wrote:oh good lord... BASE YOUR MODELS.

... or are we determined to make an argument over ever single step of the hobby?

next, we will be arguing over whether or not we need to assembled our models, and some people will claim their individuality and liberty are compromised by "elitists" who "force" them to build their models.

Just do it... base your models. Find something you like and do it... or don't I guess, but certainly don't try to claim that Not Basing Your Models is based on some aesthetic or moral position. Its not.

I also do not buy that its "difficult"... if you've managed to paint your model, you can base it. The counter argument sounds like a child refusing to get dressed for school because its "too hard".

Seriously folks... if this is a controversial issue for you, you are in the wrong hobby.

Oddly enough, I often play people who have not assembled their models (not based on anything as dramatic as their individuality, strictly because they haven't had the time to magnetize arms/weapons).

Again, seeing as you are a Studio level painter/assembler/baser, this seems like a bare minimum step to you. Yet others have stated their reasons for not basing (i.e. aesthetics on various boards, taking away from the model, etc). Because it doesn't fit with your Aesthetics doesn't make it not an aesthetic choice. I doubt Michelangelo and Dali would have agree on every step on the painting process.

I see no controversy here, only anecdotes and opinions. Conferring the title of 'children' on people who choose not to base and don't considered part of a finished model is demeaning and unnecessary.

Battle Ready Studios wrote:oh good lord... BASE YOUR MODELS.

... or are we determined to make an argument over ever single step of the hobby?

next, we will be arguing over whether or not we need to assembled our models, and some people will claim their individuality and liberty are compromised by "elitists" who "force" them to build their models.

... if this is a controversial issue for you, you are in the wrong hobby.

Well said. It's a pretty slippery slope that happens all to frequently online where there are those who will argue away any widely accepted hobby standard as being an unfair imposition on their personal choice and asthetic sense.

gunslingerpro wrote:[Oddly enough, I often play people who have not assembled their models (not based on anything as dramatic as their individuality, strictly because they haven't had the time to magnetize arms/weapons).
.

So they are playing with just unpainted legs and torsos on unpainted bases? Give me a break. Anyone puts that down on a table and expects it to be accepted as normal or a "pesonal choice" not only is missing the point, they never had it to begin with.

Not basing may be an asthetic choice, but that doesn't mean it's stil not unfinished.

It's an asthetic choice where a person prefers an unfinished model.

... Assuming they've had time to finish t before the game came up...

For some, they may not get much time.Also, Armies are always a work in progress... people always like to add something new to their army, because that is the fun of the hobby in question.

I have no models based. Because I am more worried about finishing the painting of them first....

I refuse to use any model in my army that I've not painted and based to a personal standard. I just think armies look so much better when they're all painted and based properly.

Cerebrium wrote:I refuse to use any model in my army that I've not painted and based to a personal standard. I just think armies look so much better when they're all painted and based properly.

I wish everyone had this viewpoint.

The hobby would be a lot more fun.

Instead of doing decorative basing I decided to paint my friends' names, or phrases chosen by them on the bases. Once in a while I get called lazy even though it takes time to ask people what they want me to paint on a base and more time for them to actually decide what they want. I think it's neat and it keeps my friends entertained., but you can't please some people I guess.