Sorry if this thread has been made before but...how many of you are trekkies? I guess what's your favorite series, favorite character, and we'll say favorite race...
for me it's the original series, Dr. McCoy, and Gorn
oh and also I'd like to get opinions on the new Abrams movie...what did you all think of it? I thought it was a solid movie, stunning effects, but I wasn't too pleased with the whole alternate reality premise
The movie had a lot of good moments, but the whole nobody on Vulcan or Earth can't do anything about a single ship that appears over their planet except run around in a panic bugged me.
When you think of it in the light that the Romulans couldn't handle a couple guys with swords that were able to land on the drilling platform made the premise a bit silly to me.
Never really watched B5 (don't take my nerd card away XD) but I do think the first season was meh. Once the Dominion War starts, the series got a lot better for me. Sacrifice of Angels is one of my favorite Star Trek episodes (Oh and that one where he hatches the conspiracy to get the Romulans into the war). I didn't much like the series finale though. Seven episodes you'd think they'd produce something... better...
The reliant is hands-down sexier than the yenta prize.
The Abrams vehicle was necessary if they were to get more life from the dead horse (after 10 movies, they had to go a different way and destroying one of the founders of the federation planets is a good way to reboot. Maybe in the sequel, we'll actually see the klingons without helmets on (makeup wasn't finished).
Although my favorite ship is actually the Defiant. Starfleet should make more actual war ships. Having said that I do like the Borg sphere.
I also liked the new film - some bits did kind of make you go "eh?", but overall I did enjoy it more than probably any of the other Star Trek movies that I can recall off the top of my head (though that may be because I've not watched any of the others for years).
Original series for me I guess, though Enterprise was good and I lapped up TNG back in the day. DS9 was ok but I could never get into Voyager. It just made me think about canoeing and remo williams.
Favorite character is Picard hands down. More than anyone else, Patrick Stewart managed to trancend the camp and bring us a rounded character. Q gets an honourable mention for being so damn cool.
Favorite race: Vulcans. Who doesn't like stories about elves?
Favorite ship is probably Picard's. I seem to recall a sizable component of civilians, like the whole disc part or something, and it gives me great lulz to think about picard ripping around the galaxy on all these dangerous missions with a city full of civilians on board for no good reason. Wasn't he always like 'we must detach the disc and save the civilians' or is that just in my head?
New movie was ok, but not as good as some of the other ones. Best part about it was the characterization of the old crew members looking all young, which i thought was well done.
I love Enterprise and Voyager. MY favrotits by a mile.
And i cant site through star trek film. TO much action. Action isnt what sci-fi and especially Star Trek is about. ITs about intellectual thought saving the day with violence being a last resort. The movie Just was action scene after action scene.
When threads like this come up it reminds me I need to get DS9, Next Gen and the movies on Blueray at some point.
Big Star Trek fan, liked the new movie and looking forward to the sequel.
Quark is my fave character mainly as I love the back and forth between him and Odo, Kira, pretty much everyone on the station. I am also a fan of Armin Shimerman, so really enjoy his playing of the role through-out the series. He gets so many great lines in DS9 though, although I have to be honest its hard to pick out a fave DS9 character, there are several contenders, although that is a good sign of how well it was made.
Obviously DS9 is my fave series, as is clearly shown via my Quark answer, after that I think I mark it as, TNG, TOS, Voy and then Enterprise. I really do hope we see another series eventually, as I am a fan of the universe and would like to see more of it on a weekly basis.
Fave race is Romulans, for several reasons, look, ships, oddly the whole Redemption Storyline, with Lursa and B'Etor being backed by Sela. Also I used to play the old Card game a lot as well, nearly always as the Romulans to my mates Klingons, as he was a big fan of them. (waits for Ravenblade to appear.. )
TOS, Nurse Chapel (and of couse, Lwaxana Troi), the TOS Romulan Bird of Prey, and the Ferengi.
Watched all the variations, as well as Andromeda. Still like the Original best, mainly due to the interactions between the main characters. There was a playfulness there that made them seem like people that had worked, and lived, together for quite a while. Something best illustrated by the banter at the end of the "Trouble with Tribbles" episode. The later shows just seemed to miss the mark on that aspect.
Liked the reboot, especially how they didn't just retcon the whole thing. Everything that happened in all the previous Treks is still valid.
DS9, Either Odo or the Doctor, Favourite Federation ship = Prometheus Class, Non-federation = The Breen Warships from DS9 or the Aquatic Xindi ones.
Like some bits of the Abrams film since i can see why the film universe needed a reboot but random bits bugged me like why the hell build a spaceship on the planet so to launch it you've got to then get it into orbit rather than the much more sensible (and done in series of star trek you see a ship being built) build the thing in an orbital shipyard.
TNG, doctor from Voyager, Ferengi (just because they are funny, and were involved in some great episodes).
Thought the new film was a blast, and certainly held the attention, but it's not 'star trek' in the sense that the character of the show was just an action movie rather than anything that came from Gene Roddenbery.
Used to love TNG, used to really enjoy tuning in to BBC2 on a Wednesday evening to watch every week.
Least favourite is probably Enterprise. Not quite sure where it missed the mark: Found Captain Archer more annoying than Janeway, and the music was appalling. Not sure really, perhaps a similar complaint to the new movie, the characters in it were too recognisably comparable to ourselves, rather than the Utopian ideal that the other series had presented (although I realise people may have liked it more for precisely that reason).
TOS. It was ground breaking. Otherwise DS9. Other than Picard/Worf I was not a fan of the TNG series. It was like PC written into a TV show format. VERY VERY much the same for Voyager and early DS9. However DS9 evolved quickly and plumbed some deep elements not often seen in ST universe - all those angsty human emotions. PLus lots of killy goodness.
ST revemped Enterprise (Star Trek II era), and JemHadar attack ship.
Problems start off from the beginning. "We are being sent to investigate a Romulan Ship" Kirk Sr. tells the crew. Nero's mining ship looks NOTHING like any Romulan ship seen in ANY series, much less by the Federation at that time (which had only seen their cheap, barely-warp-capable tin cans in the Fed/Romulan War). The guy they send over show NO surprise at finding Vulcans on board - remember, up 'til the time where Kirk Jr. fights the cloaked Warbird in TOS (some 15 years after the END of the new movie, much less the begining), NO ONE in the Federation had seen a Romulan; a Fed officer would assume Nero was a crazed Vulcan instead. And yet, everyone knows the Romulans were the ones in the ship. How?
Next: Spock (in the future) was too late to stop the destruction of the Romulan Homworld. Given that he has, on no less than three occasions (and twice using a KLINGON computer) made the necessary calculations to slingshot himself and his ship though time... Hunh? How does he not take advantage of this? For that matter, how does he fail to convince Nero that he can do this? Oh, yeah, it would be a boring movie that way...
And that's not including the whole idea of filming the engineering scenes in what is flagrantly obviosuly a brewery; sure, Scotty's gonna feel right at home, but... c'mon. A brewery is the BEST you could do with that budget?
Problems start off from the beginning. "We are being sent to investigate a Romulan Ship" Kirk Sr. tells the crew. Nero's mining ship looks NOTHING like any Romulan ship seen in ANY series, much less by the Federation at that time (which had only seen their cheap, barely-warp-capable tin cans in the Fed/Romulan War). The guy they send over show NO surprise at finding Vulcans on board - remember, up 'til the time where Kirk Jr. fights the cloaked Warbird in TOS (some 15 years after the END of the new movie, much less the begining), NO ONE in the Federation had seen a Romulan; a Fed officer would assume Nero was a crazed Vulcan instead. And yet, everyone knows the Romulans were the ones in the ship. How?
Next: Spock (in the future) was too late to stop the destruction of the Romulan Homworld. Given that he has, on no less than three occasions (and twice using a KLINGON computer) made the necessary calculations to slingshot himself and his ship though time... Hunh? How does he not take advantage of this? For that matter, how does he fail to convince Nero that he can do this? Oh, yeah, it would be a boring movie that way...
And that's not including the whole idea of filming the engineering scenes in what is flagrantly obviosuly a brewery; sure, Scotty's gonna feel right at home, but... c'mon. A brewery is the BEST you could do with that budget?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it was in a brewery.
Frazzled, your not the only one, the reboot is as a scifi film alright but as a star trek its a huge kick in the face. But that said it was an odd number so maybe the new one might be better being an even number.
Remember all odd numbered star treks are s**t.
Ribon Fox wrote:Frazzled, your not the only one, the reboot is as a scifi film alright but as a star trek its a huge kick in the face. But that said it was an odd number so maybe the new one might be better being an even number.
Remember all odd numbered star treks are s**t.
I liked it actually. The visuals were just amazing.
Enterprise kind of Retconned a lot of Federation/Romulan history.
Given that he has, on no less than three occasions (and twice using a KLINGON computer) made the necessary calculations to slingshot himself and his ship though time... Hunh? How does he not take advantage of this?
Umm... Temporal Prime Directive? Sling shotting ones self through time would solve virtually every problem in the Star Trek universe.
I agree about the way Nero's ship is designed. It looks NOTHING like any previously seen Romulan design and its awfully large and awkwardly shaped. I mean they provided a back story for the ship in a comic book but the story made no sense. Why the gak would the Romulan backwards engineer Borg tech just to outfit it onto a mining ship @_@
My only major complaint about the latest version is Chekov. He went from being a prettyboy nationalist to Wesley Crusher.
He states he is 17, and he seems to be some kind of (tech?) genius, pulling off transporter tricks that would have done Scotty proud.
LordofHats wrote:Enterprise kind of Retconned a lot of Federation/Romulan history.
Given that he has, on no less than three occasions (and twice using a KLINGON computer) made the necessary calculations to slingshot himself and his ship though time... Hunh? How does he not take advantage of this?
Umm... Temporal Prime Directive? Sling shotting ones self through time would solve virtually every problem in the Star Trek universe.
I agree about the way Nero's ship is designed. It looks NOTHING like any previously seen Romulan design and its awfully large and awkwardly shaped. I mean they provided a back story for the ship in a comic book but the story made no sense. Why the gak would the Romulan backwards engineer Borg tech just to outfit it onto a mining ship @_@
helgrenze wrote:My only major complaint about the latest version is Chekov. He went from being a prettyboy nationalist to Wesley Crusher.
He states he is 17, and he seems to be some kind of (tech?) genius, pulling off transporter tricks that would have done Scotty proud.
He is a young genius. But, that's still really far from Wesley Crusher. The problem with Wesley wasn't just that he was this super-smart kid with way too much responsibility. It was that he was always the center of attention, and other characters had to behave like idiots so that Wesley could out-smart them all.
Missed opportunity. If the Klingon fleet has been destroyed by the Romulans (never understood why) now is the chance for the Federation to launch an all out 40K grudge match war and end the Klingon threat once and for all.
Under an enlighted Frazzled Federation, a weakend Empire would have a very bad day shortly thereafter.
Skarwael wrote:Am I a bad person for preferring Voyager? Admittedly partly due to Jeri Ryan, but still...
Voyager gets a bad rap. It's definitely not the best Star Trek if you're looking for an in-depth plot (DS9), sci-fi adventures (TNG), or social commentary (TOS). But, if you're looking for something fun and relaxing, it's perfectly acceptable.
Trekkies tend to hate it, but don't worry about us, if you enjoy it, watch it.
helgrenze wrote:My only major complaint about the latest version is Chekov. He went from being a prettyboy nationalist to Wesley Crusher.
He states he is 17, and he seems to be some kind of (tech?) genius, pulling off transporter tricks that would have done Scotty proud.
He is a young genius. But, that's still really far from Wesley Crusher. The problem with Wesley wasn't just that he was this super-smart kid with way too much responsibility. It was that he was always the center of attention, and other characters had to behave like idiots so that Wesley could out-smart them all.
They also were referencing that the chracter was created in the first place to try and appeal to teenagers. Making him something of a gifted physicist/mathematician gives a reason for someone that young to actually be on the bridge of a starship.
Frazzled wrote:
Skarwael wrote:The new film seemed like Star Trek Kids to me.
They seem about 11-15 years before STOS. I believe Menagerie had Spock serving with Pike on Enterprise 11 or so years before.
If I recall they actually were about the same age as the original actors when they played the parts, they just seem younger. It is like when people complained that the guy who played BA in the new A-Team movie wasn't tall enough, but in reality he is taller than Mr. T. I wonder if they even found the planet Menagerie took place on becuase of the timeline split? It was a flawed film but it was fun, which is something Trek hadn't been in a long time.
Frazzled wrote:Maybe. Shatner was in his thirties. Was the new guy?
I recall having the discussion here, and I might be remembering it backwards. Maybe it was that the new cast (excluding aliens that don't age like us of course) were closer to their characters actual ages. Most of the original cast were mid-30's, except deforest Kelley who was mid 40's.
Frazzled wrote:Maybe. Shatner was in his thirties. Was the new guy?
I recall having the discussion here, and I might be remembering it backwards. Maybe it was that the new cast (excluding aliens that don't age like us of course) were closer to their characters actual ages. Most of the original cast were mid-30's, except deforest Kelley who was mid 40's.
the second part is true. Again, I really don't know the ages of the new cast, except the new McCoy is closer in age, as he's been around a few years on the acting, so I'll agree with what you post. Now "game wise" they are indeed considerably younger on the order of a decade. Kirk's promotion to Captain and Captain of what appears to be the newest heavy hiiter of the Fed fleet, is an astoundingly jump the shark moment (as is everyone else retaining their jobs-don't they have like school to go to or something?).
INteresting. If Kirk is a genius, Chekov is a genius, Spock is a genius, aren't they kind of self selecting a really small Star Fleet? When every Chang, Kang, and Kor are given weapons and a ship to go conquer the galaxy with, aren't we putting the Feds at a disadvantage?
Frazzled wrote:Maybe. Shatner was in his thirties. Was the new guy?
I recall having the discussion here, and I might be remembering it backwards. Maybe it was that the new cast (excluding aliens that don't age like us of course) were closer to their characters actual ages. Most of the original cast were mid-30's, except deforest Kelley who was mid 40's.
the second part is true. Again, I really don't know the ages of the new cast, except the new McCoy is closer in age, as he's been around a few years on the acting, so I'll agree with what you post. Now "game wise" they are indeed considerably younger on the order of a decade. Kirk's promotion to Captain and Captain of what appears to be the newest heavy hiiter of the Fed fleet, is an astoundingly jump the shark moment (as is everyone else retaining their jobs-don't they have like school to go to or something?).
INteresting. If Kirk is a genius, Chekov is a genius, Spock is a genius, aren't they kind of self selecting a really small Star Fleet? When every Chang, Kang, and Kor are given weapons and a ship to go conquer the galaxy with, aren't we putting the Feds at a disadvantage?
To quote MST3K, just repeat to yourself it is just a show, you should really just relax. In reality having all the brightest talent of the fleet on one ship wouldn't be a very good idea. Kirk was supposed to be the youngest Captain in the history of Starfleet. I guess by Starfleet rules once you assume Captain, what with Pike being a POW, and Spock resigning, you get to keep it. That is why Spock had to ask to be first officer. It's a utopia military fleet, who knows what their wierd regulations are.
Frazzled wrote:Maybe. Shatner was in his thirties. Was the new guy?
I recall having the discussion here, and I might be remembering it backwards. Maybe it was that the new cast (excluding aliens that don't age like us of course) were closer to their characters actual ages. Most of the original cast were mid-30's, except deforest Kelley who was mid 40's.
the second part is true. Again, I really don't know the ages of the new cast, except the new McCoy is closer in age, as he's been around a few years on the acting, so I'll agree with what you post. Now "game wise" they are indeed considerably younger on the order of a decade. Kirk's promotion to Captain and Captain of what appears to be the newest heavy hiiter of the Fed fleet, is an astoundingly jump the shark moment (as is everyone else retaining their jobs-don't they have like school to go to or something?).
INteresting. If Kirk is a genius, Chekov is a genius, Spock is a genius, aren't they kind of self selecting a really small Star Fleet? When every Chang, Kang, and Kor are given weapons and a ship to go conquer the galaxy with, aren't we putting the Feds at a disadvantage?
To quote MST3K, just repeat to yourself it is just a show, you should really just relax. In reality having all the brightest talent of the fleet on one ship wouldn't be a very good idea. Kirk was supposed to be the youngest Captain in the history of Starfleet. I guess by Starfleet rules once you assume Captain, what with Pike being a POW, and Spock resigning, you get to keep it. That is why Spock had to ask to be first officer. It's a utopia military fleet, who knows what their wierd regulations are.
And Karl Urban was a great McCoy.
Yes, he plays "just below the surface angry" pretty well. Not as good as Eastwood, but well. Its all in the grinding teeth thing...
When threads like this come up it reminds me I need to get DS9, Next Gen and the movies on Blueray at some point.
Big Star Trek fan, liked the new movie and looking forward to the sequel.
Quark is my fave character mainly as I love the back and forth between him and Odo, Kira, pretty much everyone on the station. I am also a fan of Armin Shimerman, so really enjoy his playing of the role through-out the series. He gets so many great lines in DS9 though, although I have to be honest its hard to pick out a fave DS9 character, there are several contenders, although that is a good sign of how well it was made.
Obviously DS9 is my fave series, as is clearly shown via my Quark answer, after that I think I mark it as, TNG, TOS, Voy and then Enterprise.
I really do hope we see another series eventually, as I am a fan of the universe and would like to see more of it on a weekly basis.
Fave race is Romulans, for several reasons, look, ships, oddly the whole Redemption Storyline, with Lursa and B'Etor being backed by Sela. Also I used to play the old Card game a lot as well, nearly always as the Romulans to my mates Klingons, as he was a big fan of them. (waits for Ravenblade to appear.. )
Oh and I love the D'deridex class Warbird.
Again I agree with most of your post.
My fav from DS9 was Elim Garak. Best character ever until they got near the end of the show, then he got a little silly. But over all him and Enabran Tain ( his mentor) where some great episodes. Plus who didn't like the Obsidian Order? or the Tal-Shiar or even the Feddy verson Section 31. Kinda neat IMHO, then again I am a sucker for spy shows (Le Femme Nikita both the movie and the TV show are favs of mine.)
Fave race is Romulans, for several reasons, look, ships, oddly the whole Redemption Storyline, with Lursa and B'Etor being backed by Sela. Also I used to play the old Card game a lot as well, nearly always as the Romulans to my mates Klingons, as he was a big fan of them. (waits for Ravenblade to appear.. )
Yes you P'tagh, I gave you the honour of being destroyed by true warriors! some epic duels there for sure damn those D'deridex warships with there stupidly high weapon power
but atleast I could get a BoP zerg sometimes.
Fave race is Romulans, for several reasons, look, ships, oddly the whole Redemption Storyline, with Lursa and B'Etor being backed by Sela. Also I used to play the old Card game a lot as well, nearly always as the Romulans to my mates Klingons, as he was a big fan of them. (waits for Ravenblade to appear.. )
Yes you P'tagh, I gave you the honour of being destroyed by true warriors! some epic duels there for sure damn those D'deridex warships with there stupidly high weapon power
but atleast I could get a BoP zerg sometimes.
Would that of been the old Decipher game Star Trek? I liked that game a lot, when the Borg came out I used to run a rather nasty "Stop First Contact deck" that could wipe out whole federation decks and anyone running humans. It was a rather fun deck. =o]
Im a trekkie, although as a blasphemer, i wasnt a fan of ToS, Picard and archer are my fav captians. The abrams movie that came out was pretty awesome too.
TNG is my favorite. Those fancy new Sovereign class starships are my favorite but y'know got a softspot for the old Galaxy class too. The Dominion War is actually one of the best story arcs I've seen on TV. That was one hell of a war.
Favorite was TNG or Voyager, my least favorite was DS9. Though, parts of the dominion war was good.
TNG, because, it had my favorite character, Picard. Whenever he wasn't being saved by Westley, that is.
Voyager because it featured decent space combat, and, now that I'm rewatching it, I've gotten into the parts with lots of 7 of 9 stories, and that's great for obvious reasons.
Everyone on DS9 was a crybaby. Dax was the least cry baby of them.
My favorite ship is the Sovereign class.
Also, I liked Enterprise, and I loved their opening song. Didn't like the Xindi, so much, though...
I actually really disliked DS9 when it originally aired but afterwards they aired it in order one episode per day. That helped me appreciate the very long Dominion War story a lot more.
Actually, now that I think about voyager more, why didn't they set a course for the Gamma Quadrant? It had to be closer than the Alpha Quadrant, and they could've just used the Bajoran Wormhole to get back faster.
Being rewatching TNG series 1-2 of late.
Sure its a little hammy to begin with but there are some real gems in there too.
Riker is eminently watchable.
Crazyterran wrote:Actually, now that I think about voyager more, why didn't they set a course for the Gamma Quadrant? It had to be closer than the Alpha Quadrant, and they could've just used the Bajoran Wormhole to get back faster.
It was about equal distance from where they were to Earth vs the wormhole.
Plus, the events of DS9 were still unfolding when Voyager got pulled away, so mapping of the Gamma Quadrant wasn't very complete, so even finding the other end of the Bajoran Wormhole would have been difficult for Voyager.
Add in the fact that the Wormhole isn't necessarily going to still exist by the time Voyager reaches it (just look at how many times it's almost destroyed in DS9), and it's pretty clear that going the route they did was the best bet.
I love Star Trek, even have a uniform and a phaser
When I am feeling down about the way the world is going, I pop in an old episode and watch a future where we as humans have over come our flaws and have embraced diversity. Its nice to watch a vision of the future that is hopeful when it seems like every other scifi show went the dark and edgier route. (Not that I mind all the time, but sometimes it is just depressive).
The Sovereign-Class is my favorite ship and Captain Picard is my favorite Captain. Scotty is the best character of any series and my favorite episodes are 'Drumhead", "Relics" and "By the Pale Moon Light"
Series - TNG
Film - The Wrath of Khan
Character - Not sure; Q livens thing up, Chancellor Gowron was good for the the political intrigue in the Klingon Empire.
Ship - The Excelsior class: sleek, elegant lines and the refit from Generations was great as well.
Honorable mention goes to the Reliant class - had the look of a medium sized warship, perfect for its role in Star Trek II.
Yeah, goes without saying that Wrath of Khan was the pinnacle.
As for TNG, the first series is god awful and in Wesley Crusher, you have probably the most annoying character in TV history!! The Picard and Q exchanges are class.
DS9 is the bee's knees. Far beyond the stars is probably the best episode of any series and Gul Dukat and Garek are probably some of the best characters that TV has ever seen.
My fav from DS9 was Elim Garak. Best character ever until they got near the end of the show, then he got a little silly. But over all him and Enabran Tain ( his mentor) where some great episodes. Plus who didn't like the Obsidian Order? or the Tal-Shiar or even the Feddy verson Section 31. Kinda neat IMHO, then again I am a sucker for spy shows (Le Femme Nikita both the movie and the TV show are favs of mine.)
Yeah Elim was probably my second fave character overall for much the same reasons.
Ravenblade666 wrote:
Yes you P'tagh, I gave you the honour of being destroyed by true warriors! some epic duels there for sure damn those D'deridex warships with there stupidly high weapon power
but atleast I could get a BoP zerg sometimes.
Hehe, aye, good times, my Sela based Romulan deck, used to love that one. Its one of theose games I'd pick up again if I saw a box of them in a car boot sale or somesuch.
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
Would that of been the old Decipher game Star Trek? I liked that game a lot, when the Borg came out I used to run a rather nasty "Stop First Contact deck" that could wipe out whole federation decks and anyone running humans. It was a rather fun deck. =o]
As Ravenblade said, aye it was, an excellent game. I starting picking it up back when it first came out, had the pleasure of getting a Future Enterprise, and then later selling it for about £75 back in around 1995 ish, that was crazy money for a card back then.
I've always loved the Big E, my fav ship on the Starfleet Command games, the Excelsior class is also designated as a heavy cruser so what on Earth is the Sovering class designated as? By the way the Defiant class isn't a full on warship (close to but not quite), its designated as a heavy escort destroyer. Never seen a destroyer that could be thrown around space like a fighter but hay, the rule of cool
I've always loved the Big E, my fav ship on the Starfleet Command games, the Excelsior class is also designated as a heavy cruser so what on Earth is the Sovering class designated as?
By the way the Defiant class isn't a full on warship (close to but not quite), its designated as a heavy escort destroyer.
Never seen a destroyer that could be frown around space like a fighter but hay, the rule of cool
Well the Excelsiors are fairly old, so maybe the Sovs are just the heavy cruisers of their era? The film makers really got it right as far as ship design went; was surprised to read that the look of the Klingon bird of prey was based on the image of a strongman flexing his muscles!
If you go by the STO classification, the Sovereign is an Assault Cruiser but the canon status of STO is unclear. Ships classifications in Star Trek have always been somewhat dubious (but they are in most fiction).
Assault Cruiser!
No way, when that thing gets angry beams come out of it every where, its like a rave in the late 90s!
I wonder whet a dreadnought class looks like and what power settings it has?
Anyone else really dislike the way the the Sovereign class looks. I guess it could be due to the fact that it was only in the movies and not on a series but I just cant dig it.
The current canon is that the Federation continues to call itself a peace keeping organization but that their fleet has become increasingly military minded, especially in the wake of the Borg and the Dominion. But like I said, the canon status of Star Trek Online is unclear.
LordofHats wrote:The current canon is that the Federation continues to call itself a peace keeping organization but that their fleet has become increasingly military minded, especially in the wake of the Borg and the Dominion. But like I said, the canon status of Star Trek Online is unclear.
Actually, Star Trek canon is incredibly simple: TV & Movie = Canon. everything else = not canon.
That being said it's definately true that The Federation is more militant now than ever because of the Dominion War. The Defiant represents that change but still the only ship to be outright called a warship afaik.
Its complicated more than that because while that's the official tag line, Paramount is the controller of the Canon, and they effectively don't do anything with with. They're the opposite of George Lucas. Rather than constantly interfering they do absolutely noting. Paramount gave the go ahead for STO but has not stated anything about its canon status (unlike other Paramount published materials like technical manuals). Its confusing because as a continuation of the Prime Timeline, STO is pretty good. The guys writing for the game have been paying attention. Its even more confusing because the J.J. Abrams film builds off the events in STO.
EDIT: The Films + Movie standard didn't come from anyone other than the fans as far as I know. The fan base adopted that position because Paramount has never been clear on it.
WARNING: Major nerd rant following. Proceed with caution, a bit of contempt, and a dash of humor.
TOS actually can't exist in the same canon as TNG.
This is because, IRL, Space Shuttle Enterprise (which debuted in 1976) was named after the fictional Enterprise from TOS. When we see Picard's ready room in TNG, he has pictures of the various ships named Enterprise, including the space shuttle.
But, if TOS was real in the TNG-verse, then the Space Shuttle never would have been named Enterprise. So, the only way it makes sense is that if TOS was actually a fictional show in TNG, the Space Shuttle was named after it, and the times we see characters from TOS, they're just cosplayers.
Grakmar wrote:WARNING: Major nerd rant following. Proceed with caution, a bit of contempt, and a dash of humor.
TOS actually can't exist in the same canon as TNG.
This is because, IRL, Space Shuttle Enterprise (which debuted in 1976) was named after the fictional Enterprise from TOS. When we see Picard's ready room in TNG, he has pictures of the various ships named Enterprise, including the space shuttle.
But, if TOS was real in the TNG-verse, then the Space Shuttle never would have been named Enterprise. So, the only way it makes sense is that if TOS was actually a fictional show in TNG, the Space Shuttle was named after it, and the times we see characters from TOS, they're just cosplayers.
Deathshead420 wrote:There have been other ships with the enterprise name that had nothing to do with tos tho, so maybe they named it after the big E aircraft carrier .
No, the space shuttle was named after a mail in campaign that the first human space craft be named "Enterprise." Its well known this is a direct result of the TOS as the people behind the mail campaign were all Trekkies. However it should also be noted that President Ford had served on the Aircraft carrier of the same name and thus would be more willing to go with the name than he might otherwise have been.
From Wikipedia: "A write-in campaign by Trekkies to President Gerald Ford asked that the orbiter be named after the Starship Enterprise, featured on the television show Star Trek. Although Ford did not mention the campaign, the president—who during World War II had served on the aircraft carrier USS Monterey (CVL-26) that served with USS Enterprise (CV-6)—said that he was "partial to the name" and overrode NASA officials."
Yeah I don't really think its much of a problem for the canon. Klingon's radical change in appearance is bigger than that and frankly I've never really had a problem with it (you know, until Enterprise thought up some absurd explanation for it).
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The JJ Abrams movie proves a huge problem for the Canon. It invalidates every single other thing that is Star Trek that is not that movie!
It's an altered timeline. The next film or two is about fixing it: saving Vulkan, not having 2 Spocks etc
Grakmar wrote:WARNING: Major nerd rant following. Proceed with caution, a bit of contempt, and a dash of humor.
TOS actually can't exist in the same canon as TNG.
This is because, IRL, Space Shuttle Enterprise (which debuted in 1976) was named after the fictional Enterprise from TOS. When we see Picard's ready room in TNG, he has pictures of the various ships named Enterprise, including the space shuttle.
But, if TOS was real in the TNG-verse, then the Space Shuttle never would have been named Enterprise. So, the only way it makes sense is that if TOS was actually a fictional show in TNG, the Space Shuttle was named after it, and the times we see characters from TOS, they're just cosplayers.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The JJ Abrams movie proves a huge problem for the Canon. It invalidates every single other thing that is Star Trek that is not that movie!
They make it pretty clear that the film is an alternate timeline...
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The JJ Abrams movie proves a huge problem for the Canon. It invalidates every single other thing that is Star Trek that is not that movie!
They make it pretty clear that the film is an alternate timeline...
In an interview, JJ Abrams pretty much says that to fix the movie, they use the time-space teleporter on the ice moon....and that links up with the yeti silloutte.
I know your talking about the teleporter but how did that fix the movie and what does a yeti have to do with it and how does whatever is going on invalidate all of Star Trek? I'm pretty stingy when it comes to canon and I honestly don't see it
There's some on-set shots of the sequel of the new movie, which shows a monster on an ice world, which means they are going back there presumably. Then they have to prevent Vulcan being ripped up. I don't see it invalidating anything either.
Deathshead420 wrote:There have been other ships with the enterprise name that had nothing to do with tos tho, so maybe they named it after the big E aircraft carrier .
No, the space shuttle was named after a mail in campaign that the first human space craft be named "Enterprise." Its well known this is a direct result of the TOS as the people behind the mail campaign were all Trekkies. However it should also be noted that President Ford had served on the Aircraft carrier of the same name and thus would be more willing to go with the name than he might otherwise have been.
From Wikipedia: "A write-in campaign by Trekkies to President Gerald Ford asked that the orbiter be named after the Starship Enterprise, featured on the television show Star Trek. Although Ford did not mention the campaign, the president—who during World War II had served on the aircraft carrier USS Monterey (CVL-26) that served with USS Enterprise (CV-6)—said that he was "partial to the name" and overrode NASA officials."
That is one of the coolest things I have ever read.
Doctadeth wrote:There's some on-set shots of the sequel of the new movie, which shows a monster on an ice world, which means they are going back there presumably. Then they have to prevent Vulcan being ripped up. I don't see it invalidating anything either.
It's an alternate time line anyway. And if previous sci-fi films teach us anything about alternate timeline it's that ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN!
Well if they turn around the clock, doesn't that effectively wipe out the alternate timeline franchise? As I believe the director and primary actors are signed for two films something be amiss. Damn it Jim I'm a doctor not an alternate timeline physicist!
Time travel episodes or movies can be really, really well-done. But, they can also be pretty terrible (see all episodes of Voyager including time travel).
It isn't a question of whether they can be well done or not, but that it seems to be a plot they fall back on to easily and to often. This is Star Trek, not Time Trek, after all. Still, City on the Edge of Forever is probably one of the best episodes, and Trials and Tribble-ations was really well done.
Time travel episodes or movies can be really, really well-done. But, they can also be pretty terrible (see all episodes of Voyager including time travel).
I actually really liked the timeship episodes. The one where Seven has to find the bomb is great. I like that they gave themselves license to say "don't worry about it, these guys cleaned it all up later" which retroactively answers the questions about every other time travel episode.
Vulcan wrote:And a Heavy Cruiser doesn't sound militant at all?
What's classed as a heavy cruiser?
The Constitution and later Enterprise class Heavy Cruisers. You know, the original starships?
Don't forget that the Excelsior was considered a Battleship.
Sure, they had extensive scientific facilities. They are still run on military lines, with extensive weaponry. They are military ships, with a strong exploration function.
This is very different than, say, the 20th-21st century U.S. Navy, with designated warships, and unarmed survey and research vessels (a la the Trieste and the TR-1).
Sorry to depart from time travel (clearly the favored topic of page 4!), but here's some words:
I am a huge fan of TNG the series, but didn't care for the movies and have not been able to get into any of the other series. Not for lack of trying...I've watched a lot of TOS and some Voyager/DS9, but none have ever clicked with me.
To echo on what some others have voiced in part: what I love about TNG most is the progressive view of human civilization. The sci-fi genre is up to its gills in dystopic/lone-hero cliches (and has been since its inception). Amongst all that doom and gloom, TNG's message is something unique and refreshing: a vision of the future where humanity has united, embraced its best nature, and has advanced tremendously for doing so. Given his preoccupation with history, mythology, philosophy, and art--and, most importantly, the constant practical application of all that collective wisdom--Picard is the most obvious vehicle for this message.
While I believe humanity's capacity for self-improvement is the core message of TNG, it does get muddied a bit by wacky aliens, space-babes, pew-pew laser battles, holograms coming to life, way too much time travel, pointless techno-babble (Heisenberg compensators!) and other things that are undeniably cliched and mostly there "just for fun." And that's fair enough--it is entertainment. But I feel like these same elements overwhelm and bring down the other series I've seen (as well as many TNG eps and every TNG movie). The more meaningful issues appear only incidental, or a necessity of the setting, while the main focus is ACTION (!!!!) and interpersonal drama. Blech.
Not looking to start a fight here with any fans of the non-TNG series. My personal preferences are, of course, not your own. And I'm sure I could be overlooking something. I could've been too quick to judge Voyager or DS9. I would love to be wrong. Having no new TNG to look forward to is, simply put, a bummer...but if another series could inspire me in the same way TNG did, I would be ecstatic.
Frazzled wrote:Well if they turn around the clock, doesn't that effectively wipe out the alternate timeline franchise? As I believe the director and primary actors are signed for two films something be amiss. Damn it Jim I'm a doctor not an alternate timeline physicist!
That's what I figure. Pretty sure those other 12 movies and like 1,000 TV shows never happened. Delete them all from your memory.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:That's what I figure. Pretty sure those other 12 movies and like 1,000 TV shows never happened. Delete them all from your memory.
What about alternate timeline is hard to understand? Star Trek has numerous alternate timelines. Mirror Universe says hello? The original series and film franchises are still valid, its just that we now have another timeline where events are unfolding.
Ahtman wrote:It isn't a question of whether they can be well done or not, but that it seems to be a plot they fall back on to easily and to often. This is Star Trek, not Time Trek, after all. Still, City on the Edge of Forever is probably one of the best episodes, and Trials and Tribble-ations was really well done.
Best line in the whole op, OBrien " There's klingons here? Where? Worf what happened?"
Vulcan wrote:And a Heavy Cruiser doesn't sound militant at all?
What's classed as a heavy cruiser?
The Constitution and later Enterprise class Heavy Cruisers. You know, the original starships?
Don't forget that the Excelsior was considered a Battleship.
Sure, they had extensive scientific facilities. They are still run on military lines, with extensive weaponry. They are military ships, with a strong exploration function.
This is very different than, say, the 20th-21st century U.S. Navy, with designated warships, and unarmed survey and research vessels (a la the Trieste and the TR-1).
KamikazeCanuck wrote:That's what I figure. Pretty sure those other 12 movies and like 1,000 TV shows never happened. Delete them all from your memory.
What about alternate timeline is hard to understand? Star Trek has numerous alternate timelines. Mirror Universe says hello? The original series and film franchises are still valid, its just that we now have another timeline where events are unfolding.
That's a parallel dimesion (nerd fight!). If you alter a timestream is should be...altered.
The Enterprise D is/was a more diplomatic oriented ship with a greater civilian crew than the other. The original and the E were both combat ships with exploration capability. You'll notice they had no civilians and as well as doing combat patrols and the like. Well, the E was only in films, but it was designed as a heavy anti-Borg warship if I recall.
I still haven't figuered out if alternate timeline means it is rewriting everything, or if it is a splinter universe.
They make it clear in the movie that it has spawned a new series of events, not that it has overwritten what has already happened (of course then rises the question of why we bother at all with the temporal prime directive but that's just part of the inconsistency that is the time travel episodes).
The Defiant Class, Akira Class, and the Sovereign Class were all designed as combat ships (aka warships) as a direct result of contact with the Borg. The Dominion War only furthered the militarization of Star Fleet designs (the Prometheus has that Multi-Vector Assault mode whose only possible purpose would be combat).
LordofHats wrote:They make it clear in the movie that it has spawned a new series of events, not that it has overwritten what has already happened (of course then rises the question of why we bother at all with the temporal prime directive but that's just part of the inconsistency that is the time travel episodes).
The Defiant Class, Akira Class, and the Sovereign Class were all designed as combat ships (aka warships) as a direct result of contact with the Borg. The Dominion War only furthered the militarization of Star Fleet designs (the Prometheus has that Multi-Vector Assault mode whose only possible purpose would be combat).
Well that's good....but doesn't make sense but time travel usually doesn't. How do they make this clear?
The Sovereign and Akira may be De Facto Warships (don't know if Sovereigns have civilians on them) but not officially. The Defiants are officially Warships.
LordofHats wrote:They make it clear in the movie that it has spawned a new series of events, not that it has overwritten what has already happened
They make it clear that a new series of events, but it is not stated that they are not overwriting the old continuity. Obliviously they are new events, but that is going to be true with either option.
It doesn't really matter much, as the idea of Star Trek canon* is laughable since it changes frequently, and is often not becuase of story reasons either.
*I generally find the idea of 'canon' in merchandised media to be problematic, not just in Star Trek. That is another thread though.
Ahtman wrote:I still haven't figuered out if alternate timeline means it is rewriting everything, or if it is a splinter universe.
It has to be a splinter universe.
If it wasn't, then newSpock will have the knowledge about Nero wanting to destroy Vulcan and will be able to stop him. But, if he stops him, then he'll never go back in time and newnewSpock won't have the knowledge and Nero will go back in time and newnewnewSpock...
Ahtman wrote:I still haven't figuered out if alternate timeline means it is rewriting everything, or if it is a splinter universe.
It has to be a splinter universe.
I doubt it has to be anything.
Grakmar wrote:If it wasn't, then newSpock will have the knowledge about Nero wanting to destroy Vulcan and will be able to stop him. But, if he stops him, then he'll never go back in time and newnewSpock won't have the knowledge and Nero will go back in time and newnewnewSpock...
That is if we assume that that is how fictional time travel works, when it doesn't always work that way, or at all since it is, you know, fictional.
Ahtman wrote:I still haven't figuered out if alternate timeline means it is rewriting everything, or if it is a splinter universe.
It has to be a splinter universe.
If it wasn't, then newSpock will have the knowledge about Nero wanting to destroy Vulcan and will be able to stop him. But, if he stops him, then he'll never go back in time and newnewSpock won't have the knowledge and Nero will go back in time and newnewnewSpock...
It definately diverged when Eric Bana came out of no where and blasted Kirk's dad. According to normal logic that would change everything that came after it which is everything except "Enterprise". However, they may be using some kind of star trek Quantum Logic where it like....splits into two timelines...or something.
It happens in the scene where they're discussing it (right after Vulcan is destroyed) using almost those exact words I believe. They specifically mention the word "parallel."
The Sovereign and Akira may be De Facto Warships (don't know if Sovereigns have civilians on them) but not officially. The Defiants are officially Warships.
Officially the Federation has no warships, even the Defiant isn't called one despite obviously being one. Likewise, its fairly obvious what the Sovereign and Akira classes were designed to do (How else are you going to justify 15 torpedo tubes?). Then there's Prometheus, which is so obviously a warship its silly to suggest otherwise. It's like calling a tank a combat car... Oh wait, the US Cavalry got away with one.
Of course this factors into the mess that is Star Trek canon. The names Sovereign and Akira don't even appear in any of the filmed media but are the accepted names for the classes (Sovereign I think appears in later ST films but the class had already been named by then within the continuity).
There's a reason for this. Gene Roddenberry didn't like war. He was a utopian, big on the wonders of exploration. But then he died and the other writers decided it was time to break out the warships and giant galactic wars to go with them.
If you guys like Star trek so much, Star Trek online went free to play back in Jan, Some people like it, some don't think it "feels" like trek but its free to play so give it a shot
STO is worth a run if you've never tried it. Not the greatest game ever made but as Star Trek goes its pretty good. Its pretty fun for the run to max level, but thats about it. There's actually some really really well done fan content in the game as well thanks to the Foundry and you can really get your nerd on
There's a reason for this. Gene Roddenberry didn't like war. He was a utopian, big on the wonders of exploration. But then he died and the other writers decided it was time to break out the warships and giant galactic wars to go with them.
Roddenberry's utopic vision is a little over optimistic. Its great and all but it gets boring fast, and even in TOS there was war and conflict. The difference was that it wasn't glorified to the extent you'd see in other media, and I'd argue that to an extent all the Star Treks maintained the idea that war isn't something positive.
Of course Rodeenberry's Utopia was overly optimistic. It was a friggin' Utopia. Originally, war only ever used to illustrate how silly war was. Guys with one side of their face white fighting guys with the other side of their face white.
But in DS9 war was used to entertain us. It got pretty grimdark there.
I've already said the Dominion War is one of my favorite story archs so it doesn't really matter to me but it should be noted that Gene Roddenberry never would have wanted something like that.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Of course Rodeenberry's Utopia was overly optimistic. It was a friggin' Utopia. Originally, war only ever used to illustrate how silly war was. Guys with one side of their face white fighting guys with the other side of their face white.
But in DS9 war was used to entertain us. It got pretty grimdark there.
I've already said the Dominion War is one of my favorite story archs so it doesn't really matter to me but it should be noted that Gene Roddenberry never would have wanted something like that.
Well war is easier to write then Drama.
I actually really liked the dominion war, it showed how dark the feddies could get. I loved 'In the pale moonlight' one of my favoret eps ever. Then again any episode with Garak in it was Ace. =o]
Hard to pick a favorite episode. I loved all the Klingon-heavy episodes, especially "Redemption" for the scenes on the Klingon home planet (warriors from either side of a recent battle meeting, drinking, and having a good time before going back to killing one another). Also, Data-as-captain is a fun subplot even if Romulan-Tasha-Yar is a stupid one. That said, I'll have to go with "Schisms" for bringing us Data's Ode to Spot.
TNG episode Conspiracy was quite fun - it's not too often they do gross-out on a Trek series; that exploding head scene was a surprise! I don't think the idea that something could be deeply wrong within the Federation would be present until DS9s Dominion war.
I loled when I watched Conspiracy for the first time last year. I can't believe that episode actually aired on national tv in the 80s.
Darmok was innovative, but I didn't care for it that much. It beat your over the head with its message and hearing Darmok a thousand times in under an hour was annoying as feth.
There's one episode in TNG, the one where the Enterprise is infected with an Iconian virus? I laughed so hard watching it because their solution to the problem of the week was to turn the computer off and turn it back on. In the 1980's I'm sure that seemed very brilliant, in 2012, I sat there laughing wondering why they hadn't already tried that
I really want to watch TOS, just for the laughs. Sadly, except for the original films, I have no way to. Cursed British television, never showing 'good' programs..
Although I have seen the animated series.
By the way, does anyone play Star Trek Online? It went free to play in January.
If you've never played an MMO, don't. They are too time consuming. The only reason I play WoW is because I have established characters and supporting new ones/twinks is extremely easy. Making the jump to another MMO is painful.
When STO released it was bad, really really really bad. Its still not that good, but now that its free to play, I think anyone who is a major trekkie should try it out. The games design is fun, especially ship combat, and the new ground combat is very similar to Mass Effect 1 in style.There's an abundance of fan made content, some of it really really good and you can tell the developers pay attention to Star Trek cause the game is one huge nerdgasm.
My thoughts:
Gameplay: Good (Space)/Meh (Ground)
Story: Good if your a Trekkie, meh if your not.
Graphics: Decent. Nothing special.
I agree with Hats. Sure, it isn't amazing. But it is free, and for that you get a very good game. Hell I'd never pay for it (as tempting as it is.. all those shiny extras), but as it is for free, it is enjoyable and worth spending some time on.
I kid you not though, it is the easiest MMO to level up on.. ever. Since I started playing on about January the 20th I've got two characters at the level cap and another about half way.. easy stuff.
I can understand how it loses appeal but I joined a very social fleet which has improved my gaming experience in it tenfold.
Amaya wrote:I've heard nothing good about that game.
If you've never played an MMO, don't. They are too time consuming. The only reason I play WoW is because I have established characters and supporting new ones/twinks is extremely easy. Making the jump to another MMO is painful.
I just started playing DDO, and I am having a blast. LvL 10 in under a week. It's good to know low people in high places. Plus we haul ass through dungon's XP farming for the win. =o]
I would have to say my fav TNG are 'best of both worlds' (who didn't like the borg back back?)
"Chain of Command"
The one where the Ferengi kidnap Riker, Troi and Troi's totally GMILF mom. Picard having to do the serenade at the end was awsome.
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:The one where the Ferengi kidnap Riker, Troi and Troi's totally GMILF mom. Picard having to do the serenade at the end was awsome.
I believe that one is titled "Lwaxana's First Earjob."
Sorry, guess I didn't put enough sarcasm into that GMILF comment. MBR was hot back in the day. Age hasn't been her friend. Although I did like her in Earth: Final Conflict, not her looks of course or her acting.
She actually voiced computers in all 4 major TV series.
Well if we are doing trivia, she was Gene Roddenberry's wife.
Yeppers and bonus points Roddenberrys ashes where taken up on a shuttle mission( or sent up might not of been on the now defunct Space Shuttles) and let go into the void.
Damn, I figured they would've been completely ignored in a few of the sub-character focused episodes. Worf, IIRC, has more Trek episodes (across all series) under his belt than anyone...seemed like a safe bet!
Amaya wrote:You know what else were good episodes in DS9? Sisko's 1950s delusions. I loved those episodes.
Man the time-travel and alternate reality episodes in DS9 were the best, followed closely by episodes that focused on the none-starfleet characters, like Quark or Odo.
)
