So despite some minor retcons 40k has manage to be a fairly consistent ongoing story for 25 years. The only really overt retcon I can think of is the RT Ultras vs the 2nd edition Ultras and even that can be handwaved as Imperial censorship.

But let's say 40k was being rebooted, you, YES YOU, get to decide what goes and what changes. You don't have to care who you piss off, or what fluff you invalidate, this is a reboot.

So what changes would you want to see in 40k fluff?

(note, please don't say 'lore' please, lore makes it sound like we're taking this waaaay too seriously)

For the record here's mine...


1 - Space Marines to Astartes - Ban the term marine, a marine by definition fights on water and honestly Space Marine is no better than Galactic Commando or Star SEAL, we're just too used to it to notice. Even Space Legionnaires would be better. And it would mean we could rename the Ultramarines which has to be the worst pun in the entire game.

2 - Astartes do not have tanks - Astartes should be an orbital strike force with drop pods, drop ships and the like. They should not be driving around in lightly armored APCs.

3 - Astartes are powerful - Make the models closer to Chapterhouse's recent 'true scale' marine, and make them tougher in rules, a marine army should have no more than 20 models in a normal game.

4 - Swap Tau for Demiurge - I'm sorry I know that Tau have their fans but they've had almost 10 years and have not caught my interest. Steampunk/diesel punk space dwarfs would.

5 - Dying races don't have cannon fodder - So Space Elfs, you're dying off darn shame about that. So why in heck are you sending out your untrained civilians with 5+ armor and guns with 12" range? Replace them with some sort of Wraithbone robots that fill that role.

6 - The ∞ Chaos Gods - OK the big 4 can stay but they're just 4 among many, many, many

7 - Horus was right - Build in some more sympathy for the traitor legions, the Imperium is interesting because of the interaction between necessity and evil. Chaos is dull because it's just evil, evil, evil. And don't even get me started on the Dark Eldar...

I agree exactly with all of those except 4. Here's what I have to add to that.

1. Chaos doesn't want to obliterate the universe. That's stupid. Even Nurgle, the god of decay, wouldn't do that, because he thrives on the rebirth that decay brings.

2. Abaddon is more successful. You can't have the codex talk about him as the ultimate son of chaos and bringer of the Apocalypse if all you ever do is list all of his failures. They need to have him destroying chapters like DomBread and other big stuff.

3. Horus didn't fall to Chaos because he was easily lied to. He fell because of the freedom Chaos offers to follow your emotions/impulses and do whatever the hell you feel like, damn the consequences. After all, he had spent his entire following regulations and the like.

4. Astartes are less heroic. They've been getting brighter and softer lately. It needs to be made clear that no matter how badass they are, they're ultimate just mindless pawns in a galaxy spanning war with no end in sight. Most of the freethinking Astartes have either died, turned to Chaos or simply gone AOL at this point.

5. Daemon Princes can perma-die, it's just difficult. I dunno, I dislike the idea of immortality. Even though I'm a big Chaos fan, I think that even these big guys shouldn't be immortal.

Add a little Common Sense to everyone in the Imperium

my reboot of 40K:

marines to astartes.
female astartes (though not as prevelant but better psykers/astartes sister of silence)
necrons back to old fluff and diversified better
more chaos gods/gods residing in the warp all with their own statlines.
daemon primarchs (with a warp version of phase out)
a black crusade that actually did something....

I've run out of ideas I might come back and add to this list sometime

I really like Kid_Kyoto and LoneLictor’s suggestions. I would like to reiterate them as well as add the following:

1. Greater emphasis on the corrupt nature of the imperium – The imperium is not the last bright shining star of the galaxy but rather a force that wishes to whole heartedly control/conquer the galaxy completely through brute force.

2. Imperium no longer the top dog – The current “comic book” style fluff of 5th edition portrays the imperium as the victorious dominant faction. The new fluff should be re-worked to make all factions truly equal (ala Warmachine) which in turn would create a more cataclysmic feel in the 40k universe.

3. Luthor was right – Build greater emphasis into the Dark Angels fluff that the Lion was the real traitor and Luthor was merely rebelling to outline that fact.

4. Fluff no longer stagnate – Stories IMO should always move forward, not backwards or stay the same. As old secrets are revealed, new ones could rise to take their place. Yes, Mephiston is really a Daemon Prince but who is his patron and what’s his end game.

5. Draigo Draigo Draigo, I made you out of clay – Seriously, not only is this guys fluff insane, it’s also incredibly paper thin and out of place in the 40k universe. Draigo’s current fluff would be deleted and replaced with new fluff portraying Draigo as a believable leader more akin to Marinus Calgar/Logan Grimnar (rather than a Mary Sue akin to Chuck Norris).

6. New Ultra fluff – yes the current Ultra fluff lacks depth and is somewhat bland. Their “best of the best of the best” theme is out of place with the 40k universe. I would rework the fluff to play more heavily into the “Roman” aspect of their fluff. They would be a Romanesque legion obsessed with conquering planets with a dark/suspicious nature akin to the Dark Angels.

7. Playable Mechanicus/Dark Magos Army – As a very popular faction, with NO in game presence whatsoever, it makes complete sense to give them a presence in the tabletop. Their fluff would also be re-worked to portray them as a mercenary faction willing to sell their technology to the highest bidder, which happens to currently be the Imperium/Traitor Legions. Their codex would also emulate this and function like the Mercenaries army book in Warmachine.

Make the Imperium use common sense more often is a great one. Im all okay for a Commissar but when they are shooting more of their own men than the enemy you have a problem. Less of science is evil (its one thing to not remember how to make somethings but to consider it blasphemny when you try to experiment... thats fething slowed)

Make Abaddon WAY more successful.

Make Tau a LITTLE bit more dark.

Eldar play style needs to be changed slightly, no cannon fodder if you are a dying race was a good statement

Make it clear that Guardsmen are actually highly competant and well equiped, its just that when compared to Space Marines they are kind of screwed.



Oh there is nothing wrong with the term Space Marine. Im tired so I wont go into detail but generally the Marines work with the navy and the Navy in space is still considered the navy as they treat space like water *shrugs*

Less emphasis on Marines in general. Of course even if the IoM starts to decline in power (which I really hope it does) they'll stay the "main characters" of the 40k universe, but the Marines are such a tiny and relatively insignificant part of the Imperium. There are only about a million of them and they have nearly half the codexes? I don't think so. I also totally agree about the Mechanicus, I love them.

Ban term space marine
Competent guardsmen
Darker Tau
Progressive fluff
People not being "Pants-on-head" retardeddd about technology
The use of the primarchs returning in fluff
Mechanicus Faction

Keep it the same, except ADVANCE THE STORYLINE!

Add in an enormous amount of rival human factions instead of the dumb-emperor, so we can get actual substantial differences rather than just differently themed space marines.

Add a human faction a mix between the tau and the Imperial Guard.

A seperatist independent humans with a sizable empire, that still hold the dominence of humanity, but are against all the stupid things of the Imperium.

Also, demonstrate that guardsmen are pretty badass. Not scared teenagers that sprint forward and act as cannon fodder.

I kind of would like to see more renegade astartes, like going out to build their own empires rather than serving the corpse on the throne. More autonomy for astartes!

If I can't have that then....

I would like to see the imperium, actually the mechanicum, become more desperate in tech and actually invent things rather than going out and hoarding technology. I would rewrite the mechanicum to actually LEARN and reinvent and move forward with technology. They can keep the whole holy tech religious stuff but INVENT! In the name of the machine god!

And I would like to see more stuff on the dark cog boys...

Orks are fine as it

Nids, maybe tweak a little bit of the space travel stuff

Necrons, no clue

Tau, would actually like to make them even more naive... like absolute nubs... just for the hell of it.

Chaos, more gods or more independent greater daemons, evil isn't just rage sex disease and trickery.
Chaos needs a few more facets, I think. More variety

I like many of the ideas so far, adding in my own.

Admit in the core concept it is fantasy races in space and don't be afraid of tongue in cheek moments.
Keep the Squats and have the Mechanicus be less creepy and dumb.
Have the Eldar use more remote presence / robots in their order of battle as every Eldar life is long lived and to few to be wasted in futility.
Find out that the Tau are far older and created the Orks and are manipulating them to attack the IoM.
Have Sisters of battle be optional choices in IG armies.
Redesign the look of certain vehicles so that they make more sense in terms of the physics of battle in the far far future.

Support Epic Armagedon once more because it gave so much to the skirmish scale of 40k in terms of vehicles and needs of the larger battlefield. Besides more games more sales.

Make Catachans the new focus of guard fluff.
Make a Space Marines megadex that is about 300 pages long and can be customised in any way possible.
Make the Gorgon a DT for guard outside of apocalypse.
Have an Imperial Schism that makes two major factions and hundreds of splinter factions.
Tell the tyranids to sod off

Remove Space Marines as an army. There simply isn't enough of them for that. They should be relegated to elite units in Imperial armies.

Ban the term "Fluff." Playing this game outside of my circle of friends would be much more enjoyable to me if people took the background story more seriously.

Have humanity in far less control of the galaxy. That would make it easier to introduce more alien race armies. It's ridiculous that Fantasy has more diverse armies than 40k.

Take away the fact that the Eldar are a "dying race." I would have them control a large section of the galaxy.

Take away successor chapters and generic renegade marines. Only the original legions are present and all marines are part of those original legions.

I would alter the way the Eldar play. If they are dying out, they need to reflect that. They should fight like Chaos Dwarves in WHFB... a few Eldar models in the army, then everything else is Wraithguard constructs or non-Eldar conscripts or mercenaries.

I'd make the Orks more intelligent. They have lost more than just their humorous tone as time goes by... they've lost about 40 IQ points as well. That needs to be rectified. They should'nt be smarter than a human, but they should be much closer to human intelligence than to Ogryn "intelligence".

I'd bring the Squats back, and make them full-on WHFB Dwarves in space... the current crop of WHFB Dwarves aren't a source of comedy, and are suitably dark enough to be transported directly into space. I know, I know, GW doesn't want 40K to be a direct correlation of Fantasy In Spaaace... except, wait... what's that? Necrons are Tomb Kings in spaaaaace, now? Yeah, feth you GW. Dwarves in space is not an inherently stupid idea, we need them back. Just don't make them drunken redneck bikers again, and you'll be fine.

I like the Adeptus Mechanicus being largely ignorant of technology, but I don't like the whole "invention and innovation is THE DEVIL" attitude they have. Somebody mentioned "pants-on-head-retar.ded" earlier. If you look that term up in the online dictionary, there's a picture of an AdMech techpriest right next to it...

Marines being called marines is fine. The US Marines (and Royal Marines) fight on land, too. They even fight on land when there's no water around for hundreds of miles. "Marine" is a general term that implies hardassery. It can stay.

Chaos doesn't need nuance. It's batgak insane from the word go. What it needs is a champion who isn't an armless failure. Since the setting and story never advance, Abbaddon will forever be stuck in his Saturday Morning cartoon villain role, perpetually shaking his fist in impotent rage at the heroes who have yet again foiled his plans for galactic domination. Replace that loser with a competent champion, who is currently building the strength needed to begin his massive invasion of the IoM. If your story never advances (and it never will) then make your bad guy's champion a guy who is gathering power, but hasn't made his move yet. That way, he hasn't built a reputation for losing; only winning. Yeah, he'll never take over the IoM, or even really try (thanks to the frozen solid storyline) but at least you can feel less embarrassed about using him in your army.

Erase Draigo from existence. In fact, scrap the entire GK concept and just make them SM who are specialized in daemon slaying. Not the current "super-incorrupt snowflakes that are incorrupt in their incorruptibility and can use xeno and daemon tech with impunity because they are super" baloney. Jumping Emperor on a pogo stick, Matt Ward, I bet you wanted to make the GK sparkle in sunlight, too...

I'd give the Ultramarines a drawback. Not a genetic one, there are enough of those running around right now. I mean a social/philosophical one. Like, make them so tied to the Codex Astartes that they can't improvise in situations that aren't covered, so they end up losing battles that they should've won. The Codex is their holiest of holy tomes, and they refuse to entertain the idea that it might be a little flawed in places... so they get smacked around from time to time.

The Imperial Guard are fine, but I would actually give the army list the flexibility and scope that it had in the previous codex. If you wanted an army of feral world CC specialists, you could do it. It wasn't smart, but you could do it. I want that ability back.

Otherwise everything else can stay as it is.

I like this thread...

It's a lot easier to see what people like and don't like without being yelled at for being dumb, sure I don't agree with some of these but hey! The reasoning behind this is pretty cool though XD

Finally.a constructive thread involving the 40k universe.

Imperium

General - Get rid of the ecclesiarchy, have religion wiped out in favor of something that makes sense. Like science. Psykers aren't feared, they're heralded as defenders of humanity and are treated exceptionally. Arbites police planetary governments as well as their populations (think Judge Dredd). Warp transit isn't dangerous for any ship with a Gellar field, those that don't have one are subjected to the powers of Chaos and can be claimed by demons.

Marines - I like the idea of them just being Astartes. A specialist fighting force that handles demonic incursions, 'nid invasions, Necron worldships, etc. They're constantly moving and they don't garrison worlds, they're purely a mobile fighting force. Any losses are replaced via IG ST members. Ranks in the Astartes are granted via combat prowess and battlefield tactics, the army as a whole is taught to think outside the box, employ any tactic to defeat an enemy (like they don't already).

Note: Grey Knights are no more. The training and equipment they have access to currently is limited can be used in times of some serious gak going down.

Imperial Guard - As diverse as can be. Strict orders concerning battlefield conduct and strategy (no meatgrinders allowed). Soldiers are taught of the horror's they face as to better understand their enemies, know thy enemy and all that.

Mechanicus - None of this secretive crap they've got going now. They're their own entity withing the giant machine that is the IoM so therefor, they put out just like everyone else. Mechanicus armies are commonplace, oftentimes fighting alongside IG, which would force us to see more of the different Mechanicus weapons (ordinatus anyone?). Again, knowledge is power.

Inquisition - Scrapped totally. I've never liked how Inquisitors are prone to doing stupid gak like summoning demons for the greater good, or wiping out a planet because it looks funny. I don't have an answer for their roll, because something similar is needed.

Emperor - Either have him be a ruler or get rid of him. Having him be some bag of bones on a port 'o potty is just a cop out.

Xenos

Eldar - I agree about the Eldar just throwing away Guardians like they're candy. Dying race my ass.

Orks - Fantastic the way they are.

'Nids - I'm torn here. I'd like to have some more background on where they came from (not just, "They're from space."). But having them as some sort of unstoppable tide of doom is still a good idea.

Necrons - Reboot. Back to the Terminators. None of this personality crap from the new 'dex, these guys are negativity in the extreme. They're here to cleanse the galaxy.

Tau - Give'em a bigger chunk of the pie or lose them entirely. As of right now, they're just a speck in the IoM's eye. Lose the mind control and make their society sort of Spartan in a sense. Everyone has their day job, but can be called on for military service if need be.

Dark Eldar - Again, dying race. But rather than actually accomplishing anything, all they do is screw and torture. Kind of a stupid reason to exist, fun, but stupid. Rather than their own faction, make it a sub faction of Eldar. Lots of the same ideas, just darker about how they go about it.

Chaos - Collection of powerful sorcerers, or something akin to that. Not gods in their own right, but powerful enough to warrant godlike attention.

Traitors - Some work with Chaos, but most just don't agree on how things are run and fight to liberate humanity from a system that they believe, doesn't work. They're not all psychotic, or spikey, or insane toolsheds that 99% of traitors are now.


It would be awesome if there was a way to implement changes like what we want, it would make some of the stupid gak just not so stupid.

^ I have to disagree on the Astartes being called 'Space Marines'.

I'm reading an excellent series right now, The Lost Fleet. It's basically a starship naval combat series. The ships each have their own group of Marines, who act as Marines did in the traditional sense - shipboard security and rapid deployment infantry that could strike quickly from wherever the Navy decided to drop anchor. I'd argue that the Imperial Navy has its Marines, but that the 'Space Marines' should be called something else. 'Astartes' or 'Adeptus Astartes' just sounds cooler.

Stop retconning the fluff. Leave the poor thing be and write some more, rather than changinf existing events.

The IOM is losing. The fluff should reflect this. Instead of a list of their victories they shold have a list of valiant last stands and phyrric victories.

FIre Ward. Not trying to make this a hate thread, but the guy doesn't have a clue. (please don't jump on this and argue it- personal opinion only )

Orks are more or less good as is, but a return to the oldschool wackiness would be nice, maybe as a supplement. I miss stuff like Pulsa Rokkits and Hop Splat guns. Proper Looted Wagons would be nice.

Return Necron fluff to it's previous creepy horror vibe, rather than the Tomb King wannabe vibe they now have. You could even keep most of the new units, but lose the goofy fluff.

Let the Nids actually win sometimes. They always seem to be being stopped/wiped out/diverted...

Return Grey Knights to the puritan badasses they were before the crappy fluff rewrite, and just erase Draigo. Stern was cool. Draigo is just fething rediculous.

Keep the uber players out of the fluff. Primarchs (light and dark) should only be taken on by other primarchs/gods/etc.

If you must have them fight a named SC, the SC shold LOSE, as they aren't supposed to be that godly, and still be credibly playable.

1. Chaos army needs to be a little more than just "the evil guys"

2. Make the Necrons creepy again

3. fething update Eldar and Tau

4. Give space marines a little more personality.

5. Make the Imperium actually look like they're losing.

6. Give the Imperial Guard more credit instead of putting them the Space Marines shadow.

That's all i can think of off the top of my head.

If i could reboot 40,000
1. remake the architechture. uses the original 40,000 (1st edition) instead of Goth Tech.
2. re-write the SM background, make female SM available. this equals elimination of the very unsuccessful Sisters of Battle.
and merge it with the Imperial Navy.
3. re-write I.G. entry, rename it to Imperial Army but have a very limit access to aircraft and skimmers.
3.1 Elite choices (Special Forces) can now don a power armor.
3.2 new weapon. Squad-level Automatic weapons.
3.3 make underslung grenade launcher available again. while Frag grenade is default weapon along with lasrifle. upgrading frag grenade to underslung GL costs a considerable points.
3.4 Jeeps, bikes, and sidecars become available.
3.5 Dedicated field guns, now being Heavy Support and not Infantry-platoon HW anymore... think of Thudd gun, Rapier heavy laser. field guns and howitzers.
3.6 Main battle tank weapon systems: bow-mounted weapons become optional rather than a default weapons, while coax MG is now default ones. pintle mounts weapons remain available
3.7 Medic can now be added to infantry sections, conscripts and veterans.
3.8 APC/IFV can be upgraded to medical vehicles.
3.9 Infantry section can take carapace armor upgrades
3.10 and can also swap lasrifles for shotguns for FREE!...
3.11 Sarges can now take long guns (lasrifle and bolter)
3.12 Stormbolters become available to a commander again
3.13 Sentinels can now take "double weapons", also Assault cannon becomes available to this unit again.
4. re-write A.I.-Robot entry. made them being 'enslaved' again rather than being totally eliminated.
5. Kicks out a messy Ecclessiarchy.

Fricking Necrons that actual die for good when you melt them or rip e'm apart with basilisk fire.

1- GK don't exist as an army. Back in the Daemonhunters codex they go.

2- Draigo doesn't exist and the GK don't use daemon weapons. That was a stupid idea that clearly contradicted their hatred of everything Chaos.

3-Some new Chaos fluff. It'd be nice if it didn't just involve them losing but being EVIL while doing it.

I'd ban the term "Astartes", actually. Using that word makes you sound like you take 40k very, very seriously.
Compare:
"Those guys are called 'space marines', they run around and blow gak up"
and
"Those guys are Astartes, loyal servents of the god-emperor of bla-bla-bla I haven't washed in weeks"
Would definitely like to see more "sympathy" for chaos, though. Rather than "those guys are definitely the bad guys". Okay I get that within the narritive the Imperium regard them (quite rightly) as bad guys, but objectively there should be more ambiguity. Not every chaos guy needs to go around lopping peoples' heads off all of the time. See "Traitor General" by Dan Abnett (a Gaunt's Ghosts book) as an example of Chaos in a more pragmatic light.

1: Tau are expansionist let them expand like there is no tommorow not 1 world at a time fire cast are subject to hyperselective breeding reflect that to their strength they get ultra training and highly advanced targetting allow them to hit once in a time

2: the thousand sons. magnus never was a bad guy he was forced out by his dad and the rubric was there to save his men he didnt want them to turn into monsters

3: no matt ward ultramarine and necron lovefest. necrons are terminators not kindhearted bitches of the ultramarines

4: give me more regiments for imperial guard and stuff like if you choose a regiment from a dead world make them better in every aspect but make them way more expencive more light on trench warfare with krieg they play limitless attratation allow krieg to like take combat ingeneers and dig in when they are on the defensive

5: eldar equels dying race not we got plenty of guardiens just throw them into the meatgrinder

6: this is a damn must add the fing mechanicum and dark mechanicum with like knights as expensive heavy support

and lastly add the damn renegade imperial guard half of the imperial army turns to chaos they all disappear after the heresy. Please do not circumvent our word filter. Thanks Manchu

admiral9 wrote:

2: the thousand sons. magnus never was a bad guy he was forced out by his dad and the rubric was there to save his men he didnt want them to turn into monsters

3: no matt ward ultramarine and necron lovefest. necrons are terminators not kindhearted bitches of the ultramarines

2 : Its already that way actually. It adds to the GrimDark setting of the game that a "good" legion such as the Thousand Suns gets prosecuted for something they never did.

3: Have you even read the newcron dex? The necrons are not the Ultramarines "bitches". If anything, they will bend UM over their metahl bawkes and proceed to probe them vigorously with a tesla coil. The crons are not kindhearted, they are not marine lovers, and they will totally feth up any non-necron that gets between them and their objective.

Anyway, my pick

--Get rid the newcron's dependency of the dolmen gates. That was a really dumb idea that didn't make any sense. For tactical reasons, sure, but a reliance? They can manipulate time and space, and they can't open up a friggen worm hole? Comeon!

--The Triarch can stuff it as well.

More on reboots
1. Squats returns!
2. the IoM becomes factinalized. tories (xenophobes) and the reformists (mankind and aliens should learn to coexists)
3. Eldars and Dark Eldars wear power armors as standard gears. if someone says they're dyin' race and need a deadlier standard troops (one that matches Space Marines) not a weak 'guardian' line infantry.
4. Introduction of non-Imperial human factions. and neither this one joins with Chaos nor xenos.

Lone Cat wrote:More on reboots

3. Eldars and Dark Eldars wear power armors as standard gears. if someone says they're dyin' race and need a deadlier standard troops (one that matches Space Marines) not a weak 'guardian' line infantry.

Hell's no!
The strength of the Eldar comes from their speed and ranged power. Giving them power armor standard will just make them into acrobatic marines, and that is just...damn. C.S Goto level dumb, to be exact.
I do agree that guardians need a boost, however. Maybe a 4+ save, with some sort of shield wargear, a la Dawn of War II.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

admiral9 wrote:

2: the thousand sons. magnus never was a bad guy he was forced out by his dad and the rubric was there to save his men he didnt want them to turn into monsters

3: no matt ward ultramarine and necron lovefest. necrons are terminators not kindhearted bitches of the ultramarines

2 : Its already that way actually. It adds to the GrimDark setting of the game that a "good" legion such as the Thousand Suns gets prosecuted for something they never did.

3: Have you even read the newcron dex? The necrons are not the Ultramarines "bitches". If anything, they will bend UM over their metahl bawkes and proceed to probe them vigorously with a tesla coil. The crons are not kindhearted, they are not marine lovers, and they will totally feth up any non-necron that gets between them and their objective.

Anyway, my pick

--Get rid the newcron's dependency of the dolmen gates. That was a really dumb idea that didn't make any sense. For tactical reasons, sure, but a reliance? They can manipulate time and space, and they can't open up a friggen worm hole? Comeon!

--The Triarch can stuff it as well.

sorry im not the best when it comes to the necrons but com on you gotta agree with me with the rest when i read my tau codex for the 100 time i see that they say fire warriors are the best of the best trough selective breedidng and supreme training shouldnt there stats reflect that their wepons are good but the warriors themselves suck

Portray the Imperium as even more of a dying Empire in which central authority is failing.

This way we can have the Space Marine factions acting with a lot more autonomy; trying to carve out order, or opportunistically make their own little Empires, or just soldiering on.

Of the new Necron characteristics I like is the inter-conflict they've got going on: I think the Imperium, though officially intact, would benefit from having more visible contentions within it; i.e. the Mechanicum hearing rumours of technology on an Ecclesiarchial world, actually rocking up to it with a fleet and threatening to capture it by force; hell, the two factions can even have a theological dispute over the nature of the Omnissiah.

And the poor Guard is stuck in the middle...

Long story short: It's cooler for command to be removed as it means that the various entities of the Imperium will have to act on their own initiative: Be it well-intentioned conforming to 'the spirit' of what the Imperium tends to want/benefit from, or opportunistic power-building. Sort of like the Galactic Empire during the Warlords Period in Star Wars.

admiral9 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

admiral9 wrote:

2: the thousand sons. magnus never was a bad guy he was forced out by his dad and the rubric was there to save his men he didnt want them to turn into monsters

3: no matt ward ultramarine and necron lovefest. necrons are terminators not kindhearted bitches of the ultramarines

2 : Its already that way actually. It adds to the GrimDark setting of the game that a "good" legion such as the Thousand Suns gets prosecuted for something they never did.

3: Have you even read the newcron dex? The necrons are not the Ultramarines "bitches". If anything, they will bend UM over their metahl bawkes and proceed to probe them vigorously with a tesla coil. The crons are not kindhearted, they are not marine lovers, and they will totally feth up any non-necron that gets between them and their objective.

Anyway, my pick

--Get rid the newcron's dependency of the dolmen gates. That was a really dumb idea that didn't make any sense. For tactical reasons, sure, but a reliance? They can manipulate time and space, and they can't open up a friggen worm hole? Comeon!

--The Triarch can stuff it as well.

sorry im not the best when it comes to the necrons but com on you gotta agree with me with the rest when i read my tau codex for the 100 time i see that they say fire warriors are the best of the best trough selective breedidng and supreme training shouldnt there stats reflect that their wepons are good but the warriors themselves suck

Yeah...BS3 is fairly pitiful for a race's warrior cast, who are specifically trained to excel at ranged combat. Sure they get good guns...but good guns do not make good soldiers.

If you disagree with eldars wearing power armor (technically they should! they still have that style of technology!). then if we give them deadlier guns? one that kills Necrons so easy! (fluff always say that they are bane to Necrons, they need anything that can whack those nanobot body)

Some eldar DO wear power armour.

Just not the bog standard weekend-warriors

1) Marines aren't the super-super-superhumans of BL fiction, but are closer to their RT image (i.e. they can die and do so often)
2) Marine chapters can replenish their numbers more easily so that the above makes sense.
3) Marines are a sensible height, not much taller than they were before being recruited.
4) Draigo is just the head Grey Knight, a double-hard bastard but not the ludicrous farce that is the entry in the GK codex
5) Bring back Squats, but without excessive biker motif


That's all that comes to mind right now.

Lone Cat wrote:If you disagree with eldars wearing power armor (technically they should! they still have that style of technology!). then if we give them deadlier guns? one that kills Necrons so easy! (fluff always say that they are bane to Necrons, they need anything that can whack those nanobot body)

Well, the shurikens do need an upgrade. Splinter weapons got a nice poison ability that was an interesting mechanic, so its likely that shurikens will get something as well.
Don't know enough about them to propose anything though. Other than that, I think the Eldar have some decent weapons already. Plenty of Ap2 and 3 weapons to use.
I remember hating Dark Reapers back when I was playing 3rd Necrons, thanks to their S5 Ap3 weapons, that had 36" (IIRC) range and 2 shots each.


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Ascalam wrote:Some eldar DO wear power armour.

Just not the bog standard weekend-warriors

Yes, but he was suggesting that they wear PA standard, which is a bit silly.


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Slinky wrote:1) Marines aren't the super-super-superhumans of BL fiction, but are closer to their RT image (i.e. they can die and do so often)
2) Marine chapters can replenish their numbers more easily so that the above makes sense.
3) Marines are a sensible height, not much taller than they were before being recruited.
4) Draigo is just the head Grey Knight, a double-hard bastard but not the ludicrous farce that is the entry in the GK codex
5) Bring back Squats, but without excessive biker motif


That's all that comes to mind right now.

1: Agreed. I do not recall seeing dead marines in any of the recent art work.
3: They are 7' tall in armor. That is reasonable.
5) Yes, they are called Deimiurg

Some really great stuff in here.

1. I would really like to see the chaos gods taking a larger role in the materium.

2. Would be great if chaos stopped suffering from the cobra-commanderitus.

3. The whole eldar cannon fodder thing. So true.

4. Draigo. Fix him.

5. Yo Saharduin, where you at?!

6. Ad mech army book, preeaaase?

Basically I would like a few less space marine codex's and maybe one or two new races. I doubt they would be able to fit in an extra two three books in their already tight schedule.

Lone Cat wrote:If you disagree with eldars wearing power armor (technically they should! they still have that style of technology!). then if we give them deadlier guns? one that kills Necrons so easy! (fluff always say that they are bane to Necrons, they need anything that can whack those nanobot body)

Technology isn't as important as industry. Germany in 1944 had the most advanced military technology in the world, but their factories were in ruins so it wasn't much good.
The eldar probably don't have the manufacturing base to churn out power armour at the same rate as the IOM, though the fact that they can give it to certain aspect warriors means that they clearly have the technology.

Oh what I would like to have altered about WH40k.

1. Change how the Ultramarines are described. They should have more personality, and their adherence to the Codex Astartes should from time to time cause trouble for them.
2. Space Marines number. I would at least have ten-folded their numbers if not more, as I refuse to think 1000 SMs can take over any planet as Earth today have 17 million soldiers under arms.
3. Tanks and Space Marines seem really stupid, and how do such a guy fit into a seat inside a tank effectively? Teleportation? Might explain the high attrition rates amongst the Marines.
4. Robute taking control of IOM, he would force the change with a smile and many many guns.
5. The Tau can go to hell and stay there.
6. Make the Imperial Guard more important, they do most of the fighting, the Space Marines just takes the credit. How would you feel if you were a part of one million men fighting a grueling battle and SEAL -team six took the credit? They shall be more in the forefront as the SM does less than 1% of the fighting.
7. Make the Sister of Battle more interesting and independent. Not to mention all we now have from them are penitence and anger. Normal humans just ain't interested in that. I would make them more like the Fish Speakers, and for fun throw in the kill-rule from the Sarmartians. No killie, no marrye.
8. Make Abbaddon less pants on head. Seriously now he is almost cartoonish in how he is a villain. "Today I feel contrary, so today I abandon you despite me having 12 other Black Crusades which failed greatly." Just because his name is Abbaddon and abandon is a very similar word doesn't mean he shouldn't try to fight for his crusades. Now he is pants on head, and seriously why do anyone follow that guy? 13 out of 13 failed Black Crusades, that reeks of incompetence.
9. Make a codex for the Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Raven Guard, White Scars and Iron Hands and detail much better their rather interesting personalities.
10. Make the Necrons into life-hating robots, sure the Nids were merely the wakeup-call.
11. Have the Orks getting a few points in IQ, now they seem to be a mix of hooligans and rednecks who speak in funetik accent.
12. Force Nid-commanders to use swarms of smaller units. Seriously it looks damn stupid when everything fielded by a Nid-army is Synapse. Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes ain't easy to breed, so they should act like it.
13. Make the Eldar more fading and less dying. Now they have cannon-fodder which ain't humans, I'm looking at you Guardians.
14. Make it so Eldar and humans actually through great difficulty can breed, because it fills me with squick when we go for the Dark Eldar and even normal Eldar and humans keep sex-slaves of the species they ain't.
15. Change the Operati Mundi for the Grey Knights. They now ally with the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau, while they happily kill any human they see, and then takes a refreshing bath in SOB-blood? WTF? At least they should try to protect humans from time to time.
16. Make the Space Marines less demi-godish. That would be the Custodes for you. The Space Marines should be more extremely strong humans who is chemically and surgically altered.
17. Get better fluff about the traitor guardsmen, now they are just a footnote.
18. Draigo? Ehm the Grey Knights for me should be lobotomized to not having a personality.
19. Make the feeding of a planet much more complicated for the Nids, also make them less good in fluff. Which would mean the Lictors slinking around all unseen shouldn't happen much. I would also have the Genestealer Cults more vulnerable to Chaos, especially if the Patriarch died.
20. Make it so the IOM are not totally pants on head regarding technology. I mean no-one tests a thing for 500 years like the Adeptus Mechanicus did with the Lightning. Technology should be hard to develop, but it shouldn't be impossible to do. I can buy the whole golden age thingy of the past.
21. Make the Chaos more interesting, now it's perversions which really doesn't tempt. Basically go for Joey's points.
22. Make the Daemon Primarches more active. Now only Angron does much, the rest are just laying on their couches watching sport on TV while downing beer like unemployed males.
23. Make it so the C'Tan control the Crons, though the Crons should be able to break the control at times.

Well that was all I came up as of now.


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Joey wrote:

Lone Cat wrote:If you disagree with eldars wearing power armor (technically they should! they still have that style of technology!). then if we give them deadlier guns? one that kills Necrons so easy! (fluff always say that they are bane to Necrons, they need anything that can whack those nanobot body)

Technology isn't as important as industry. Germany in 1944 had the most advanced military technology in the world, but their factories were in ruins so it wasn't much good.
The eldar probably don't have the manufacturing base to churn out power armour at the same rate as the IOM, though the fact that they can give it to certain aspect warriors means that they clearly have the technology.

Same with IOM and Terminator Armour. The IOM can make it, but it's extremely hard to make and it's better to make power armour instead.

Personally? The biggest thing I'd change is the Space Marines in general.

Currently, they don't make a whole lot of sense when you actually start looking at their numbers relative to the galactic scale (they become insignificant very quickly) and their capabilities are wildly varied from being tough heavy infantry to demigods depending on author and their resources/authority also varies wildly depending on author and all too often seems to be very much in violation of what we know of the Codex Astartes even for chapters supposedly very codex adherent, largely because the Space Marines can't and don't function the way the author wants them to otherwise.

They end reading like invincible flying bricks tropes, and end up being way too one-dimensional as characters, and one can often piece together their dialogue in just about any circumstance from maybe 50 or so words. They come off too often as internet fanfic style idealized and overdone invincible superheroes and not as the doomed-to-fight-until-killed-in-battle xenophobic psycho-indoctrinated super soldier warrior monks of an oppressive theocracy stuck in the past and declining while stifling under its own bureacracy and inability to react.


That and I'd bring back Squats. There's no reason they couldn't be done well and add a bit more dark humor to the universe

The Imperial Guard certainly need more focus. Currently they are stuck in a strange rift concerning what time period they fall under. Do they represent modern day soldiers? then what's with the interwar motif?

Rules wise, what in Throne's name made Arby think a 4e Eldar "flying circus" was in any way appropriate for the Guard?! Rediculous I say...


The Marines absolutely should be shifted slightly out of the limelight. Not to say that they are unimportant, but they are such a small part of the universe that it's absurd to shove them squarely into the center of each storyline (roughly one million out of countless trillions). Inject the inquisition into more of these senarios at the very least, they have the resources and authority that vastly supercedes ANY Chapter Master ("By the authority of the immortal Emperor of mankind..." and all that).

Grey Knights have been made into clowns, an entire chapter of genetically-engineered super *DUPER* marines who kill deamons and have the bestest armor an gunz an dont afraid of nothing. I vastly prefer the previous codex, it was (is?) much more fun to play against regardless of the outcome of the battle simply by how easily a narrative game could advance.


I dont think I can make a decent call on the xenos, but the laundry list would definatly include making the Orks into a respectable force. I dislike the current idea that there needs to be a faction that only ranges from "bumbling idiots" to "thuggish hooligans"! I would also be very happy if at the least that "WAAAGH" is reserved only as a battlecry and never again gets used as a noun!


I may have more later, but that should do for now.


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Vaktathi wrote:doomed-to-fight-until-killed-in-battle xenophobic psycho-indoctrinated super soldier warrior monks of an oppressive theocracy stuck in the past and declining while stifling under its own bureacracy and inability to react.

OMG!!! I feel some sigging coming of this.

Change codex Lineup.

REMOVE: Blood angels, Dark Angels and Black Templars Codex's and include their Characters/ special rules to the vanilla codex in a system more like the 4th edition trait system.

Codex: Inquisition/Daemonhunters, bring the Sisters, Inquisition and Grey Knights back together.

Codex: Mechanus, there's defiantly a demand for it. Army wide regeneration (like tyranid regeneration) for all their multi-wound models. Machine Spirit in all vehicles. Mind-lock drawback on all troop choices.

Codex: Traitors, a codex for Human worlds that have left the imperium. has the option to be Chaos worshipping or just Renegades (determined by HQ choice). Chaos worshipping would have access to some Chaosy things while Renegades could have access to alien mercenaries and technologies like Ork Bloodaxes or other alien pirates/mercenaries.

Add Demiurg and the "Human Helpers" to the Tau Codex.

keep the rest of the codexes.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The strength of the Eldar comes from their speed and ranged power. Giving them power armor standard will just make them into acrobatic marines, and that is just...damn. C.S Goto level dumb, to be exact.

There was a point in the game when Striking Scorpions had a 3+ armor save back when Marines had a 4+ armor save. Just sayin'.

I like Orks. They're one of the few factions about which I would change nothing. They make me laugh and yet they're still a deadly serious threat (spore-based asexual reproduction, I'm looking at you.)

Plus they can be made grimdark: Think about all dem 'umie slaves making their gear in 'uge factories.

Henners91 wrote:I like Orks. They're one of the few factions about which I would change nothing. They make me laugh and yet they're still a deadly serious threat (spore-based asexual reproduction, I'm looking at you.)

Plus they can be made grimdark: Think about all dem 'umie slaves making their gear in 'uge factories.

Absolutely. Orks are all fun and games, until you look at it from the point of view of the agri-world farmer who is forced to watch as a mob of pillaging Orks uses his still-living children as footballs and handy bite-size snacks, then rpoceed to hack up his wife to see if whatever it is that's making that screaming sound can be added to the mob's trukk for a cool siren-effect...


The best part? The Orks can't see why no-one else doesn't find this hilarious.

The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

GW did a serious mistake in pitting Abbaddon against Cadia, the most popular IG regiment, he can never take that planet. Anywhere else and Abbaddon would have wrecked havoc. Against Cadia he is just a wave hitting a beach, and unfortunately using two million years to take that planet is not a very good strategy.

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

Beaviz81 wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

GW did a serious mistake in pitting Abbaddon against Cadia, the most popular IG regiment, he can never take that planet. Anywhere else and Abbaddon would have wrecked havoc. Against Cadia he is just a wave hitting a beach, and unfortunately using two million years to take that planet is not a very good strategy.

Not true at all.

At that point in time, Steel Legion was the "most popular IG regiment".
Cadians are not--and have really never been--"the most popular IG regiment". Anyone who's seen the polls on the topic here would know that. The popularity of the models(a full plastic line which don't look like Catachans) does not equate to the popularity of the regiment.

Unfortunately GW sees everything in black and white when it comes to sales, the Cadians is the most popular regiment. And with good reason. They are a very adaptable organization with few weaknesses. The Cadians is the Ultramarins of the IG (without the lameness) while the Catachans are the Space Wolves of the IG.

Beaviz81 wrote:Unfortunately GW sees everything in black and white when it comes to sales, the Cadians is the most popular regiment. And with good reason. They are a very adaptable organization with few weaknesses. The Cadians is the Ultramarines of the IG (without the lameness) while the Catachans are the Space Wolves of the IG.

That isn't what you said in your post--which is what I replied to. You confused fluff with sales figures--and you're doing it again. Cadians--and their "adaptable organization with few weaknesses" has been the hallmark of the Cadians since before they had plastic kits.

Plastic Cadians--and their sales figures--did not come until after Abaddon fought at Cadia. The only thing that was the "serious mistake" was having a worldwide campaign to decide the fate of a lynchpin planet in the fluff.

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He's led a huge number of devastating wars against the Imperium and been offered daemonhood on multiple occasions. He has done more for the Dark Gods than just about any other being in memory save possibly Horus. Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes), taking Terra has never been the intention of any of the Black Crusades which have taken place, they have each had their own objectives that are building up to a Black Crusade which will eventually have Terra as its goal, but that's for later.

I like the Steel Legion. They are like France anno 1918. They fight on despite devastation and that almost every fit male have died or been crippled.

For Cadia, well they are sort of the modern military put into space with their resources. I have never minded them in fact.

For Abbaddon, he has been a great sales-pitch for the Cadians, i recognize that, but now he seems inept. Then again might makes right?

make the tactical genious attack the eye of terror along with about 15 chapters in one breaktrough and crush the legions cause of the bloodlust khorne releases undending war and there are permanent warpgates opened where khornes legions make undending war and destruction

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He's led a huge number of devastating wars against the Imperium and been offered daemonhood on multiple occasions. He has done more for the Dark Gods than just about any other being in memory save possibly Horus. Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes), taking Terra has never been the intention of any of the Black Crusades which have taken place, they have each had their own objectives that are building up to a Black Crusade which will eventually have Terra as its goal, but that's for later.

That's what GW wants you to believe, for the sake of saving face.

We all know that's crap though.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He's led a huge number of devastating wars against the Imperium and been offered daemonhood on multiple occasions. He has done more for the Dark Gods than just about any other being in memory save possibly Horus. Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes), taking Terra has never been the intention of any of the Black Crusades which have taken place, they have each had their own objectives that are building up to a Black Crusade which will eventually have Terra as its goal, but that's for later.

That's what GW wants you to believe, for the sake of saving face.

We all know that's crap though.

Wait, so GW isn't canon anymore? Huh.

Someone mentioned frozen solid fluff for chaos. I couldn't agree more. They have no actual goal other than to be a pain in the ass for Imperium. and plus 1000 for the Eldar Guardian problem. also, there needs to be more attention on the SoB. I think they're awesome and the reason no one really plays or collects them is because they're still an all metal army.

Hey people thread carefully. The last thing thing I personally and you as well want is this thread to boil down to another Ultramarine-slugfest. We have enough of them, and they never end up nice.

Lets just start anew, this is what we dislike as individuals not as a whole.

LoneLictor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He's led a huge number of devastating wars against the Imperium and been offered daemonhood on multiple occasions. He has done more for the Dark Gods than just about any other being in memory save possibly Horus. Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes), taking Terra has never been the intention of any of the Black Crusades which have taken place, they have each had their own objectives that are building up to a Black Crusade which will eventually have Terra as its goal, but that's for later.

That's what GW wants you to believe, for the sake of saving face.

We all know that's crap though.

Wait, so GW isn't canon anymore? Huh.

If George Lucas made an official statement tomorrow claiming that Jar Jar Binks is the most intelligent and powerful character in the Star Wars mythos, would you believe that that was the truth? No? Thought so. If DC Comics came out with an official statement that claimed that Robin is faster than the Flash and stronger than Superman, would you believe that to be the truth? No? Thought so. lol

Xyptc wrote:

Henners91 wrote:I like Orks. They're one of the few factions about which I would change nothing. They make me laugh and yet they're still a deadly serious threat (spore-based asexual reproduction, I'm looking at you.)

Plus they can be made grimdark: Think about all dem 'umie slaves making their gear in 'uge factories.

Absolutely. Orks are all fun and games, until you look at it from the point of view of the agri-world farmer who is forced to watch as a mob of pillaging Orks uses his still-living children as footballs and handy bite-size snacks, then rpoceed to hack up his wife to see if whatever it is that's making that screaming sound can be added to the mob's trukk for a cool siren-effect...


The best part? The Orks can't see why no-one else doesn't find this hilarious.

The fact that I'm now laughing shows they are fun guys

I'd like to see some fluff in which "All the little guardsmen die, then the Space Marines come save the day" isn't the standby. Heck, I'd like to see the inverse happen. An army of Guardsmen notice some large scale battle while fighting orks, and arrive upon a small force of Astartes Fighting for their lives.

I'd also like to see doctrines make a comeback.

Vaktathi wrote: Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes),

Taking Terra and crushing the Imperium would make him a bad leader as far as Chaos is concerned. They like the status quo just fine, in fact they engineered it to gain power. They keep Abaddon strong because he's too inept to lead the forces in any significant gain, but too powerful to ever be deposed.

BlaxicanX wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He's led a huge number of devastating wars against the Imperium and been offered daemonhood on multiple occasions. He has done more for the Dark Gods than just about any other being in memory save possibly Horus. Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes), taking Terra has never been the intention of any of the Black Crusades which have taken place, they have each had their own objectives that are building up to a Black Crusade which will eventually have Terra as its goal, but that's for later.

That's what GW wants you to believe, for the sake of saving face.

We all know that's crap though.

Wait, so GW isn't canon anymore? Huh.

If George Lucas made an official statement tomorrow claiming that Jar Jar Binks is the most intelligent and powerful character in the Star Wars mythos, would you believe that that was the truth? No? Thought so. If DC Comics came out with an official statement that claimed that Robin is faster than the Flash and stronger than Superman, would you believe that to be the truth? No? Thought so. lol

But, I would believe it if it was specifically included in the movie/comic, even if it was stupid, because that's how canon works. The book says Abaddon did that stuff. Nothing in the book contradicts it, except your opinion which is not canon.

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He still managed to get the blessing of Tzeentch, get a Blackstone fortress and reclaim Horus' body twice. Pretty good going IMO.

BlaxicanX wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He's led a huge number of devastating wars against the Imperium and been offered daemonhood on multiple occasions. He has done more for the Dark Gods than just about any other being in memory save possibly Horus. Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes), taking Terra has never been the intention of any of the Black Crusades which have taken place, they have each had their own objectives that are building up to a Black Crusade which will eventually have Terra as its goal, but that's for later.

That's what GW wants you to believe, for the sake of saving face.

We all know that's crap though.

Wait, so GW isn't canon anymore? Huh.

If George Lucas made an official statement tomorrow claiming that Jar Jar Binks is the most intelligent and powerful character in the Star Wars mythos, would you believe that that was the truth? No? Thought so. If DC Comics came out with an official statement that claimed that Robin is faster than the Flash and stronger than Superman, would you believe that to be the truth? No? Thought so. lol

Except you'd have to believe it whether you wanted to or not. And there's a difference between claiming that the person meant to be the arch-enemy of the Imperium is a threat and trying to make scrappys powerful.

IoM - I would have had The big E die during the Horus Heresy and ascend to godhood. Sanguinius, Dorn and the Lion would all be alive and would be the Triumvirate that rules over the Iom. There would be doubts over The Lions true loyalties though to create a little inhouse tension.

Also, the whole 60% of chapters coming from Ultramarine geneseed would be scrapped. Id probably switch the focus away from the usual chapters and show a little love to some of the more obscure ones.

As a purely geeky want there would be a Dinorider IG army that would be sorta be like catachans riding raptors. How cool could those models look?

Chaos - There would be 6 main Gods. Nurgle, Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Malal and the Star Child. Mala would be the badass that the other Gods feared and the Star Child would be the youngest/weakest good but look out for mankind.

Nids - I like Nids how they are really. I have them take more ground/space but would really change anything. Maybe imply through fluff that they are fleeing an even more fearsome foe.

Orks - Would not mess with Orks too much. Maybe just push Ghaz's influence. Make hime the leader of the biggest army in the galaxy and the IoM biggest threat.

Also, I would have the Hrud causing trouble for just about everyone. Be it through piracy and bloodshed or infestation and disease. Maybe they could follow Nurgle.

Thats how my reboot would go. Would it fail? Hell yeah but it was nice to think about.

LoneLictor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The majority of suggestions in this thread have included making Abaddon more successful. Hopefully GW will be able to take a hint from the fanbase for the next Chaos Codex.

Hopefully they don't. Abaddon is a brilliant satire. Chaos Space Marines are a might makes right faction. He's the mightiest. That doesn't make him actually a good leader.

He's led a huge number of devastating wars against the Imperium and been offered daemonhood on multiple occasions. He has done more for the Dark Gods than just about any other being in memory save possibly Horus. Just because he hasn't taken Terra doesn't mean he's a bad leader (as far as Chaos goes), taking Terra has never been the intention of any of the Black Crusades which have taken place, they have each had their own objectives that are building up to a Black Crusade which will eventually have Terra as its goal, but that's for later.

That's what GW wants you to believe, for the sake of saving face.

We all know that's crap though.

Wait, so GW isn't canon anymore? Huh.

If George Lucas made an official statement tomorrow claiming that Jar Jar Binks is the most intelligent and powerful character in the Star Wars mythos, would you believe that that was the truth? No? Thought so. If DC Comics came out with an official statement that claimed that Robin is faster than the Flash and stronger than Superman, would you believe that to be the truth? No? Thought so. lol

But, I would believe it if it was specifically included in the movie/comic, even if it was stupid, because that's how canon works. The book says Abaddon did that stuff. Nothing in the book contradicts it, except your opinion which is not canon.

lol what. What makes you think canon works that way at all?

I think it would be pretty interesting to see eldar in heavy power armour... but kinda contradictory...

Maybe more Old Ones?

Eldar in heavy power armour:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440244a&prodId=prod1160106a

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060044

The older models had boots so heavy that they would lock to the ground while they fired IIRC, to absorb recoil, but i could be misremembering..


More Old Ones fluff would be good, maybe some old Ones tech in the hands of their descendants/servitors

I want to see Codex: Slann !




Automatically Appended Next Post:
These guys too:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1160121a

I would have a human/alien codex that was somewhere between the Imperium and the other factions, Codex: Space Pirates?

Non-imperial humans as a merc/pirate codex would be awesome

Ascalam wrote:Non-imperial humans as a merc/pirate codex would be awesome

Rogue Traders? SOOOPER rogue rogue traders....

Wouldn't mind pirates

My reboot:

Change the look of space marines. Their cartoony, dopey bell bottom armor with shoulders that couldn't realistically function are the reason no movie producer in his right mind would ever consider a live action space marine movie. They would look as dumb as... well they'd look as dumb as they do. They shouldn't look this silly. Theirs is a look that needed to have evolved from that time way back when miniatures never looked very impressive, and yet they haven't.

Space marine background needs to be completely retooled so they don't come off so ridiculously exaggerated. They're a little better than guardsmen, but with better armor. Fine. So stop all the nonsense about them being unbeatable super giants who can wipe out an Ork invasion with a single squad. Such fiction is outrageously contrived and just awful. Good stories contain flawed heroes and perfected villains. 3rd grader stories (and current SM stories) contain perfect heroes and plucky failure villains.

Make Eldar more deadly. Your typical Eldar trooper should be equal to a SM, only with superior weapons and armor tech. Only then could we justify saying that their fewer numbers are compensated by their weapons and armor tech. Everything they have should be better.

Advance the Tau timetable. The rate at which Tau progress should make them one of the most indomitable forces in the galaxy, yet they're unjustifiably portrayed as utterly inferior, despite obvious technological superiority to everybody except Eldar, and that's only because of Eldar psychic tech... And Tau tech is STILL advancing . They deserve better representation.

Demiurg never existed. Just write them out. The space gnome concept is even sillier than SM armor.

Change the name of Dark Eldar. Their concept is fine, their name sounds like they're not even trying. Call them... I dunno. Nocte Militus or Ghost Pirates or something more clever than "Dark Eldar."

Orks need an overhaul. Axe brandishing retards shouldn't be space faring. Ork invasions should occur by fungal infection epidemic or something. As they are, they're too medieval and just don't fit in a sci-fi backdrop.

Chaos needs to have seen more success. They're touted as one of the biggest threats in the galaxy, yet they fail at every turn... Partly because of the exaggerated SM syndrome mentioned previously.

Archonate wrote:
Space marine background needs to be completely retooled so they don't come off so ridiculously exaggerated. They're a little better than guardsmen, but with better armor. Fine. So stop all the nonsense about them being unbeatable super giants who can wipe out an Ork invasion with a single squad.

I take it you read Iron Snakes?

Shinglepants wrote:

As a purely geeky want there would be a Dinorider IG army that would be sorta be like catachans riding raptors. How cool could those models look?

That is the best thing I have ever heard anyone say. And perhaps a new chaos character that could act as Krulos? Lol. It would be beyond amazing.

That cartoon was so boss.

1. I would ban the use of the word "Canon, Fluff" or anything even vaguely insinuating that there is any truth or constants in 40K.

2. There are only two armies. Codex: Orks and Codex: Draigo. So you all either have to play the best army...or Draigo. Because I know how much you all love him to death.


In the grim, dark future of 40k, there are only orks. And Draigo.

Slinky wrote:1) Marines aren't the super-super-superhumans of BL fiction, but are closer to their RT image (i.e. they can die and do so often)
2) Marine chapters can replenish their numbers more easily so that the above makes sense.
3) Marines are a sensible height, not much taller than they were before being recruited.
4) Draigo is just the head Grey Knight, a double-hard bastard but not the ludicrous farce that is the entry in the GK codex
5) Bring back Squats, but without excessive biker motif


That's all that comes to mind right now.

1. agree. They remain a super soldier but shouldn't be too elite. merge the SM with the Imperial Navy
2. Squats should focus on siege warfare. they may have access to IG leman russ but they also extensively uses mole weapons.
2.1 line infantry should have either hellguns or bolter. but not wearing power armor as standard suit. in contrast they starts with default flak jacket instead
2.2 they also have access to Dreadnought. the squats however, 'man' the dreads instead of being fused in.
2.3 they also uses Stug-style leman russ (exclusively Thunderer!) as codex heavy choices.
2.4 they don't use Admech priests as repairers. instead they have their very own team of engineers (and no "Mindlock" penalties). this comes with tradeoffs as an engineer team can't take power armor.

Just Draigo. The rest is fine by me.

keep squats, but make them more serious.
I can understand their humour but naming dudes after cakes and pop singers is just going to far...

I would not chnage anything. I like my 40k as it is, but however dear GW, give the poor SoB players a codex in physical format.

Trondheim wrote:I would not chnage anything. I like my 40k as it is, but however dear GW, give the poor SoB players a codex in physical format.

My friend, honestly the Ultras need a change, same with the SOB. But I agree with your general sentiment.

Space marines are changed drastically.

If there are 1,000,000 of them for the entire galaxy, why do they seem to be present in every battle, in forces of 1 company+?

Get some consistency of certain things. Marine armour is shredded by sufficient lasgun fire in some sources, in others it's completely immune.

Get some consistency of boltgun power. Some sources have humans and eq. surviving a direct hit, others have the blast alone killing nearby humans.

Get some consistency for marine height.

Make them faster. They are supposed to be elite warriors, in most sources they just attack as if they were very heavy infantry, but not especially skilled.

It is just silly when you have a rank-and-file space marine kill a whole bunch of traitors without them even posing much of a threat (Rafen, I'm looking at you)


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KamikazeCanuck wrote:Just Draigo. The rest is fine by me.

This. Him trouncing daemon primarchs IN THEIR OWN DIMENSION is silliness.

Mortarion was in the material realm, not "his own dimension".

Never fails to amuse me that the story gets more and more exaggerated depending on how someone wants to portray it.

Chaos - Have Malice as the 5th chaos god, with its own version of greater and lesser daemons. Daemons are themselves now, they are no longer a piece of the chaos gods.

Orks - Similar to the orks right now with more super huge warbosses leading giant pirate empires. More high tech and warbosses now have giant space fleets. Also give them a more pirate/warlord style.

Imperial Guards - No more low tech looking infantry and tanks, now they all look advanced enough to be worthy of a year 40000 military force. This faction mostly fights with eldar, tyranids, and ork pirate empires.

Necron - Necron dynasty are larger and more powerful than ever before! strongest necron overlord now rules 800 planets. Not all necron dynasty are awake and one c'tan the outsider has been consuming c'tan shards for many years, gaining godlike power..

Eldar - They have a much larger empire now with many robotic units backing them up.

Space marine - Another human military faction that mostly deals with chaos, daemon, and necrons threats. Also make the entire faction more high tech looking. No more chapters, they are divided into legions now. 14 legions in total with each legion having 1 million space marine super solider.

Thatguy91 wrote:

Shinglepants wrote:

As a purely geeky want there would be a Dinorider IG army that would be sorta be like catachans riding raptors. How cool could those models look?

That is the best thing I have ever heard anyone say. And perhaps a new chaos character that could act as Krulos? Lol. It would be beyond amazing.

That cartoon was so boss.

Haha yeah, I would shoehorn it in somehow. Have them from a deathworld called Jurassica or something!

That cartoon was, indeed, boss.

There are ten thousand men in each space marine chapter.

The Tau Empire is older than the Imperium. It had expanded into many corners of the galaxy, but the Great Crusade shattered it into hundreds of tiny independent states all unified not in power but in ideology. The largest of these sections is the "true" Tau empire: the one in the Eastern Fringe. They work to spread the Greater Good, but have an ancient hatred for humanity.

The hive fleets are new, but the Tyrandis have always been in the galaxy. They exist in hives seeded all across the stars and they rise up to rejoin the hive fleets when they come by. The hives must have been seeded through the galaxy aeons ago in preparation for the coming fleets.

It would be hinted that orks and eldar have a shared history of warfare that's lasted since the extinction of the Old Ones and that the reason why Khaine was so powerful was that the eldar were always fighting. This would also go to explain how the eldar couldn't become the permanent rulers of the known universe despite millions of years of history as a space-faring race.

gpfunk wrote:
In the grim, dark future of 40k, there are only orks.

I like da way you fink, humie. If ya wuz big 'n green I'd fight next to ya anyday

Kanluwen wrote:Mortarion was in the material realm, not "his own dimension".

Never fails to amuse me that the story gets more and more exaggerated depending on how someone wants to portray it.

Ah, sorry. Messed up the timeline. The battle with mortarion was BEFORE he was sent to the warp by M'kar.




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VampireDeLaVega wrote:

Space marine - Another human military faction that mostly deals with chaos, daemon, and necrons threats. Also make the entire faction more high tech looking. No more chapters, they are divided into legions now. 14 legions in total with each legion having 1 million space marine super solider.

That's actually quite interesting and unique...and specific. Might I ask how you came up with the number 14?

im2randomghgh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Mortarion was in the material realm, not "his own dimension".

Never fails to amuse me that the story gets more and more exaggerated depending on how someone wants to portray it.

Ah, sorry. Messed up the timeline. The battle with mortarion was BEFORE he was sent to the warp by M'kar.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Draigo's stuff is plenty silly, but every time I see someone talking about it the story seems to have grown in some silly way.

Kanluwen wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Mortarion was in the material realm, not "his own dimension".

Never fails to amuse me that the story gets more and more exaggerated depending on how someone wants to portray it.

Ah, sorry. Messed up the timeline. The battle with mortarion was BEFORE he was sent to the warp by M'kar.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Draigo's stuff is plenty silly, but every time I see someone talking about it the story seems to have grown in some silly way.

Yeah I just thought they had battled in the warp, hence "own dimension".

Anyways, glad we set the record straight.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

VampireDeLaVega wrote:

Space marine - Another human military faction that mostly deals with chaos, daemon, and necrons threats. Also make the entire faction more high tech looking. No more chapters, they are divided into legions now. 14 legions in total with each legion having 1 million space marine super solider.

That's actually quite interesting and unique...and specific. Might I ask how you came up with the number 14?

VampireDeLaVega wrote:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

VampireDeLaVega wrote:

Space marine - Another human military faction that mostly deals with chaos, daemon, and necrons threats. Also make the entire faction more high tech looking. No more chapters, they are divided into legions now. 14 legions in total with each legion having 1 million space marine super solider.

That's actually quite interesting and unique...and specific. Might I ask how you came up with the number 14?

Random number lol

I would remove the whole story about the Emprah being 48 000ish years old. I'm sure we can think of any other excuse to give him uber powers. Hell, we could just say he was an insane, charismatic psyker-mad scientist. But he doesn't need to have seen every moment of human history. And I dislike the whole Star-child and Sensei stories, so...

Oh and I would too do away with the term Space Marine. It's annoying, when 'Adeptus Astartes' can't translate to that. Of course, Star Knights wouldn't be much better, but it'd be more accurate. Actually, I'd give them the name of Imperial Guards, distinguishing themselves from the Imperial Legions of Pre-Heresy.

Of course, bring down the level of implication of the Marines in everything. If they are so rare, then they can't make it to every conflict of a galaxy-wide empire, and then they wouldn't be the hero everyone sings about, the guardsmen would. Or the Sisters. Yeah. More Sisters.

Other than that. Well. Many things. You know what? I'd make the Primarchs still implicated (thoses who wouldn't be dead). They could be the uber-super player who still hold the IoM togheter. Or the reason why it's crumbling on itself.

And yeah 1st post!!!

I myself am new to 40k, well newish anyhow. And I came in from the RPG side(Rogue Trader to be precise). As a whole I like the setting and would not change all that much, but a few things I would.

Eldar: As they are a dying race I would expect them to have fewer foot soldiers and more spirit driven troops. Something like Psyker controlled drone troops would work as well.. The few living that see combat should be the ultra powerful or the elite. They are an old, technically powerful race. Kinda stupid to throw away numbers you do not have.

Squats: Never happened. Just no, no space dwarves. And big wheel riding, viking biker space dwarves just...hell no.

Ratlings: same deal. We do not need space dwarves and that leaves even less place for the sad waste of paper that are space hobbits. Just stop.

Chaos goals: The goal of the Chaos gods is not to destroy the universe. that is well..stupid. The goal is to convert it into a more pleasing shape. They feed off of worship, they want more worship, not annihilation.

Necrons: From what I read the older fluff was cooler. But I would mix it a bit. I would have a few leaders much like now, but still serving their masters.Most of the race are more or less mindless killing machines. You can not reason with them and you can not talk them down. You are simply something to be killed or converted to serve.


A few things here I simply do not agree with. I tend to like the term "Space Marine" and think the Tau are dark enough. They are not in your face dark, but they are indeed dark.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Mortarion was in the material realm, not "his own dimension".

Never fails to amuse me that the story gets more and more exaggerated depending on how someone wants to portray it.

Ah, sorry. Messed up the timeline. The battle with mortarion was BEFORE he was sent to the warp by M'kar.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Draigo's stuff is plenty silly, but every time I see someone talking about it the story seems to have grown in some silly way.

Yeah I just thought they had battled in the warp, hence "own dimension".

Anyways, glad we set the record straight.

Yes, he only battles the actual Chaos Gods in their own dimension.

with the Draigo/Mortarion thing, it is still RIDICULOUS to think that he can defeat, not just a normal primarch (who is already godlike) but a DAEMON one that is many times more powerful than normal.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes, he only battles the actual Chaos Gods in their own dimension.

Once again:
No he doesn't. He has been fighting the followers of the Chaos Gods in their own dimension. Stop posting misinformation, Kamikaze.

Blackhoof wrote:with the Draigo/Mortarion thing, it is still RIDICULOUS to think that he can defeat, not just a normal primarch (who is already godlike) but a DAEMON one that is many times more powerful than normal.

You do know that the Daemon Primarchs are effectively bound by the same laws governing the Daemons they lead into battle, yes?
Look up Angron and his war against Armageddon--he was banished, same as Mortarion was.

Angron we at least have more detail on and so can comment that it took alot to banish him. I hope that at some point the Mortarion story gets similar treatment so we can stop whining about it. That is to say, a detailed explanation that it took a whole bunch of fighting and junk.

For what I would change though-

Necrons- Ruled by the C'tan as masters of the entire race again. Lords and Overlords have personality but still serve the C'tan, overall are more unified and don't use Dolomen Gates, because they have FTL. C'tan shards are fragments of the other C'tan that the big four have managed to destroy and use as reinforcements for their armies. The Praetorians and the whole Triarch organization is a rebel group within the Necrons for those who do want to be free, and as such, both C'tan shards and Praetorian anythings cannot be fielded in the same army.

Chaos- More explanation about other large warp storms elsewhere, like the Maelstrom or Storm of the Emperor's Wrath. I think there should be much more fighting in places such as those as the Imperium tries to keep out the constant flow of chaos that comes from there. Also, rivalry between the various legions should've died down by now to the point where they work as one army until they can get out of the Eye, it may have not been the full 10K years for them, but they Have to be sick of that place by now.

Tau- More races included in their Empire that are talked about actively. With the large number of species they've encountered and assimilated, their technology really should be far more varied. Tau should be shooting, Kroot ambushing, Vespid scouting, Deminurg doing heavy siege, and other races doing either basic ground-fighting or some other role that has yet to be filled. Each race can truly capitalize on their physical abilities because the others are there to compensate.

Iguard- The actual heroes. They are what everyone will see because they are Everywhere. As such, I'd think that the overall public opinion of them should be much greater, celebrated fighters of the xenos and defenders of man.

Space Marines- Just increase their rarity in fights. Shouldn't really be a case of them swooping in to save the Iguard. The should be the ones in zones the Iguard isn't even allowed near. Highly specialized troops.

Eldar- More technologically based army. They are rare and as such shouldn't be throwing out more Eldar then mandated into a fight. Really, I feel like Tau Gun Drones and such are more suited for these guys then the Tau, who are already the sharp shooters. Maybe some more heavy automated war walkers or something similar.

I think that's all, no real major changes, just a little something to switch it up

Azure wrote:Angron we at least have more detail on and so can comment that it took alot to banish him. I hope that at some point the Mortarion story gets similar treatment so we can stop whining about it. That is to say, a detailed explanation that it took a whole bunch of fighting and junk.

For what I would change though-

Necrons- Ruled by the C'tan as masters of the entire race again. Lords and Overlords have personality but still serve the C'tan, overall are more unified and don't use Dolomen Gates, because they have FTL. C'tan shards are fragments of the other C'tan that the big four have managed to destroy and use as reinforcements for their armies. The Praetorians and the whole Triarch organization is a rebel group within the Necrons for those who do want to be free, and as such, both C'tan shards and Praetorian anythings cannot be fielded in the same army.

This.
I support this variation of the fluff completely.

Take out ghetto webway entrances and yeah, thats about good.

TheAngrySquig wrote:Take out ghetto webway entrances and yeah, thats about good.

That's what Dolmen gates are.

Azure wrote:Angron we at least have more detail on and so can comment that it took alot to banish him. I hope that at some point the Mortarion story gets similar treatment so we can stop whining about it. That is to say, a detailed explanation that it took a whole bunch of fighting and junk.

For what I would change though-

Necrons- Ruled by the C'tan as masters of the entire race again. Lords and Overlords have personality but still serve the C'tan, overall are more unified and don't use Dolomen Gates, because they have FTL. C'tan shards are fragments of the other C'tan that the big four have managed to destroy and use as reinforcements for their armies. The Praetorians and the whole Triarch organization is a rebel group within the Necrons for those who do want to be free, and as such, both C'tan shards and Praetorian anythings cannot be fielded in the same army.

Tau- More races included in their Empire that are talked about actively. With the large number of species they've encountered and assimilated, their technology really should be far more varied. Tau should be shooting, Kroot ambushing, Vespid scouting, Deminurg doing heavy siege, and other races doing either basic ground-fighting or some other role that has yet to be filled. Each race can truly capitalize on their physical abilities because the others are there to compensate.

I agree with these completely. TO be honest, reading that last part of your necrons thing made met think of Farsight

And I completely agree with the tau thing, in totality.

I want to see Tarellians as heavier troops for assault, demiurgs filling the HS slot as much as broadsides, and I want them to put Nicassar on the front lines. Psychic powers are something the tau sorely need.

As a side note, I really like how kroot work now in the game. They will get torn up in shooting and aren't quite as good in melee as I would hope, but the 2+ they get from G2G in cover is very helpful. 20 2+ models is beautiful.

Though I think they should get a 5++ or 6++ that has to do with dodging, so they don't get shot to pieces so quickly on their way to cover.

Remove Space Wolves. That's all.

Kanluwen wrote:

Blackhoof wrote:with the Draigo/Mortarion thing, it is still RIDICULOUS to think that he can defeat, not just a normal primarch (who is already godlike) but a DAEMON one that is many times more powerful than normal.

You do know that the Daemon Primarchs are effectively bound by the same laws governing the Daemons they lead into battle, yes?
Look up Angron and his war against Armageddon--he was banished, same as Mortarion was.

Yes but Angron required about a hundred Grey Knights, of which only a dozen or so remained...

The fact that he's one man, sorry, one GM GK, is just crazy.

Frankenberry wrote:Finally.a constructive thread involving the 40k universe.


Dark Eldar - Again, dying race. But rather than actually accomplishing anything, all they do is screw and torture. Kind of a stupid reason to exist, fun, but stupid. Rather than their own faction, make it a sub faction of Eldar. Lots of the same ideas, just darker about how they go about it.

Dark Eldar are NOT dying!
At least according to the latest codex

Personally I would make marines less awesome and focus less on the Imperium

All fluff written by Mat Ward. I'm not bandwagon hopping, I really do find his stuff biased, over-the-top, 12-year-old-homebrew-chapter, pants-on-head slowed BS.

Squats would have been more like the duergar from D&D. They'd have had a more grimdark official name for their race - "squat" would be a demeaning nickname the wider imperium called them.

Oh, and chaos would have captured Cadia and won the 13th crusade.

Ulthanashville wrote:
Oh, and chaos would have captured Cadia and won the 13th crusade.

If that happened, then humanity would be so fethed its not even funny.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Blackhoof wrote:with the Draigo/Mortarion thing, it is still RIDICULOUS to think that he can defeat, not just a normal primarch (who is already godlike) but a DAEMON one that is many times more powerful than normal.

You do know that the Daemon Primarchs are effectively bound by the same laws governing the Daemons they lead into battle, yes?
Look up Angron and his war against Armageddon--he was banished, same as Mortarion was.

Yes but Angron required about a hundred Grey Knights, of which only a dozen or so remained...

The fact that he's one man, sorry, one GM GK, is just crazy.

And who says Mortarion was alone? Who says Draigo was?

We know that there was a battle going on. The limited facts we have of the matter state that Mortarion fought and killed the previous Grandmaster of the Grey Knights and that Draigo then slew Mortarion.

But of course, that just gets ignored because it says the Draigo defeated Mortarion by himself and it leaves out the fact that this is in the middle of a war.

I get that people hate Ward, etc etc. But Draigo isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be, especially considering that the information on this one particular conflict is practically nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Kanluwen wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Blackhoof wrote:with the Draigo/Mortarion thing, it is still RIDICULOUS to think that he can defeat, not just a normal primarch (who is already godlike) but a DAEMON one that is many times more powerful than normal.

You do know that the Daemon Primarchs are effectively bound by the same laws governing the Daemons they lead into battle, yes?
Look up Angron and his war against Armageddon--he was banished, same as Mortarion was.

Yes but Angron required about a hundred Grey Knights, of which only a dozen or so remained...

The fact that he's one man, sorry, one GM GK, is just crazy.

And who says Mortarion was alone? Who says Draigo was?

We know that there was a battle going on. The limited facts we have of the matter state that Mortarion fought and killed the previous Grandmaster of the Grey Knights and that Draigo then slew Mortarion.

But of course, that just gets ignored because it says the Draigo defeated Mortarion by himself and it leaves out the fact that this is in the middle of a war.

I get that people hate Ward, etc etc. But Draigo isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be, especially considering that the information on this one particular conflict is practically nothing in the grand scheme of things.

No, it says that Draigo was alone and Mortarion had his guards. Read it. Seriously. It uses the word alone.

Kanluwen wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Blackhoof wrote:with the Draigo/Mortarion thing, it is still RIDICULOUS to think that he can defeat, not just a normal primarch (who is already godlike) but a DAEMON one that is many times more powerful than normal.

You do know that the Daemon Primarchs are effectively bound by the same laws governing the Daemons they lead into battle, yes?
Look up Angron and his war against Armageddon--he was banished, same as Mortarion was.

Yes but Angron required about a hundred Grey Knights, of which only a dozen or so remained...

The fact that he's one man, sorry, one GM GK, is just crazy.

And who says Mortarion was alone? Who says Draigo was?

We know that there was a battle going on. The limited facts we have of the matter state that Mortarion fought and killed the previous Grandmaster of the Grey Knights and that Draigo then slew Mortarion.

But of course, that just gets ignored because it says the Draigo defeated Mortarion by himself and it leaves out the fact that this is in the middle of a war.

I get that people hate Ward, etc etc. But Draigo isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be, especially considering that the information on this one particular conflict is practically nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Got me there.
I think it's the whole daemon primarch thing. Your big baddies that take forever to down and tonnes of resources to banish.

What little I've read though about him being stuck in the warp for so long and burning nurgle's jungle, doing random godly stuff while in the warp, it just gets a little unbelievable to me

LoneLictor wrote:
No, it says that Draigo was alone and Mortarion had his guards. Read it. Seriously. It uses the word alone.

And it also says that Mortarion defeated the Grey Knight Supreme Grand Master and that Draigo was elevated to his position on a battlefield.

So you're saying that Draigo--who was a Grand Master at the time--and his boss, the Supreme Grand Master rolled up to call Mortarion and his posse for a throwdown?

It is a single paragraph. A single paragraph, in a section titled "The Battle of Kornovin".

The paragraph:
"Supreme Grand Master Geronitan is slain at the hands of the Daemon Primarch Mortarion. Grand Master Kaldor Draigo is elevated to the rank of Supreme Grand Master amidst the din of the battlefield and vows vengeance on Mortarion. Alone and unaided, Draigo smashes his way through Mortarion's bodyguard, strikes the Primarch to the ground and carves Geronitan's name on the Daemon's vile heart. Though Mortarion ultimately escapes, it is many long years before he can enter the mortal realm once more."

That's not really "all" we have on this particular instance though. We have a small tidbit from page 38 too!
"He became Supreme Grand Master in the early days of 901.M41, following the slaught of the previous Chapter Lord at the hands of the Daemon Primarch Mortarion, and his first act was to carve his forebear's name upon Mortarion's rotting heart --an insult that the Daemon has never forgotten".

Notice how it refers to Mortarion there. "The Daemon". Not "The Primarch". Mortarion, at this point, is more Daemon than Primarch.

Either way, I'm willing to give the background piece a bit of free reign simply because there is practically nothing to go on for it. It's a summary of an event which likely spanned hours, if not days. It's not enough to make a definitive decision as to whether or not Draigo is "ridiculous".

See, it says, "ALONE AND UNAIDED". Draigo, alone and unaided, defeats both Mortarion and his body guard. That's just stupid.

A single Grey Knight can't defeat both a Daemon Primarch and his posse. It's horrible, horrible fluff. I understand that Draigo is powerful, but Primarchs are crazy ass powerful. And if you can't understand why this is horrible fluff, you shouldn't be playing Warhammer 40k.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
Got me there.
I think it's the whole daemon primarch thing. Your big baddies that take forever to down and tonnes of resources to banish.

Most certainly, the Daemon Primarchs are nothing trifling! But it wasn't Draigo versus Mortarion, at least not for the entirety of the conflict. It was a battle, and Draigo was elevated to his rank on the battlefield. This was also not on a world bathed in warp energies, in all likelihood, meaning that Mortarion is subject to all the same rules of Daemons within the material realm.

What little I've read though about him being stuck in the warp for so long and burning nurgle's jungle, doing random godly stuff while in the warp, it just gets a little unbelievable to me

This is where things get a bit different though, in my opinion. It's made clear that Draigo has an "utter resistance to corruption" and that he had been slaughtering Daemons--not the Ruinous Powers themselves. The damage he did like burning Nurgle's Garden or toppling the Inevitable City?

It repairs itself. He can't win, and he is essentially subject to the same rules as the Daemons themselves. He can't go home. He's stuck, forever, in a realm of madness and impossibilities.


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LoneLictor wrote:See, it says, "ALONE AND UNAIDED". Draigo, alone and unaided, defeats both Mortarion and his body guard. That's just stupid.

"Battle of Kornovin", the presence of a Supreme Grand Master (and a Grand Master no less), alongside of the fact that Kaldor Draigo is elevated to his rank "amidst the din of the battlefield" suggests that he is not as alone as you think.

The idea of him cutting through an entire army? Yeah. That's absurd. Him butchering some Traitor Astartes on par with Typhus or the like to get at Mortarion?

That's not that ridiculous or absurd at all.

A single Grey Knight can't defeat both a Daemon Primarch and his posse. It's horrible, horrible fluff. I understand that Draigo is powerful, but Primarchs are crazy ass powerful.

Primarchs are "crazy powerful"(what exactly is the quantification for "crazy poweful" anyways? For that matter, I don't remember Mortarion having anything particularly noteworthy about him outside of his obscene immunity to toxins and poisons), certainly.

But Mortarion isn't just a Primarch anymore, and neither are his bodyguards simply Astartes anymore. The "Daemon" in the title should be a pretty clear cut clue as to how this becomes possible.

And if you can't understand why this is horrible fluff, you shouldn't be playing Warhammer 40k.

If you have to resort to "If you can't understand why X is bad, you shouldn't be doing Y" in a debate--I think you might want to step back and rethink your position.

Anyways, like I said: there's barely anything to go upon for this. It's a summary of an event. There aren't enough details to really condemn or laud the incident.

I think it should either focus exclusively on the Imperium, or focus equally on all factions. It doesn't make sense to spread the fanbase equally amongst all factions and then have the books be about a specific faction winning battle after battle against them.

If they had everything IoM, then it could be like Halo with just the single agreeable faction and it would be entertaining.

If they had it spread out, we would get to see more from the PoV of our favourite factions (I am looking at you, Ghazzy and Farsight)

Ya....definately Draigo. I'd take out Draigo. Then there's be less 15 page threads explaining how he's a stupid character.

I agree with Lone Lictor (no surprise there), but Matt Ward is an awful writer. A single Grey Knight taking out a dozen of Greater Daemons, then forcefully tattooing a Daemon Primarch? Ehm yeah right. Who is he again? The Emperor himself?

Kanluwen wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

LoneLictor wrote:See, it says, "ALONE AND UNAIDED". Draigo, alone and unaided, defeats both Mortarion and his body guard. That's just stupid.

"Battle of Kornovin", the presence of a Supreme Grand Master (and a Grand Master no less), alongside of the fact that Kaldor Draigo is elevated to his rank "amidst the din of the battlefield" suggests that he is not as alone as you think.

The idea of him cutting through an entire army? Yeah. That's absurd. Him butchering some Traitor Astartes on par with Typhus or the like to get at Mortarion?

That's not that ridiculous or absurd at all.

A single Grey Knight can't defeat both a Daemon Primarch and his posse. It's horrible, horrible fluff. I understand that Draigo is powerful, but Primarchs are crazy ass powerful.

Primarchs are "crazy powerful"(what exactly is the quantification for "crazy poweful" anyways? For that matter, I don't remember Mortarion having anything particularly noteworthy about him outside of his obscene immunity to toxins and poisons), certainly.

But Mortarion isn't just a Primarch anymore, and neither are his bodyguards simply Astartes anymore. The "Daemon" in the title should be a pretty clear cut clue as to how this becomes possible.

And if you can't understand why this is horrible fluff, you shouldn't be playing Warhammer 40k.

If you have to resort to "If you can't understand why X is bad, you shouldn't be doing Y" in a debate--I think you might want to step back and rethink your position.

Anyways, like I said: there's barely anything to go upon for this. It's a summary of an event. There aren't enough details to really condemn or laud the incident.

It says, "ALONE AND UNAIDED" which means he is "ALONE AND UNAIDED." I cannot stress this enough. Secondly, becoming a Daemon Prince makes you stronger (here are two sources for this; Lexicanum and the Warhammer 40k Wiki). So, when a Primarch becomes a Daemon Prince, he becomes stronger than the average Primarch. So, Draigo, ALONE AND UNAIDED (your yourself sourced this, so I don't need to), defeated something stronger than a Primarch and it's retinue. Secondly, Mortarion is stronger than Typhus because he is a Primarch.

You don't seem to really know what a Primarch is, so here's a link: Primarch. You also don't seem to know what "ALONE AND UNAIDED" means, so here are two other links: and . Hopefully those will help.

EDIT: Okay, the dictionary.com links didn't work. But you can go to Dictionary.com yourself and look 'em up, if you feel so inclined.

Without a doubt, in order of priority:

+ Make the origins of the Emperor, his will, what he is, and how the Imperium got to where it is a near complete mystery except very indirectly (Horus Heresy largely ruined 40k in my opinion because of this. Its as if Chaos player's interpretation of the lore became cannon..... )

+ Like the first, leave it open as to whether the Imperium is based on a complete lie or not ('grimdark' is only good if there is some possible light in the darkness, not some nihilist's fever dream)

+ Make the Imperium a little more reasonable in dealing with xenos (I like the whole xenophobia thing going on, but sometimes its a bit silly)

+Bring back squats

+Leave just about everything else the exact same

^How is that a Chaos Player's interpretation become canon? We saw for a fact that Horus was lied to and that the Emperor was completely in the right throughout the whole thing.

I really don't have a problem with the term 'Space Marine'. To me it is the Low Gothic version of the High Gothic "Adeptus Astartes".

H.B.M.C. wrote:I really don't have a problem with the term 'Space Marine'. To me it is the Low Gothic version of the High Gothic "Adeptus Astartes".

What about 'Ultramarines' who are both super marines and painted blue?

Why, the colour was named after them of course ! This way, people who wear blue can pretend they're a bit like an Ultramarine despite the fact they can never be as good, and they can feel in communion with their... with our spiritual liege !

Jokes aside, I really like Azure's take on the Necrons.

(There's already at least one lengthy enough DraigoVSMortarion thread.)

Its amazing how many of these I REALLY dont agree with

For some reason 40k has some distinct words like Adeptus Astartes and Adpetus Mechanicus but also some excessively normal ones like Power Armour and Power Weapon. They should come up with something a little more copyrightable like superslicium deathswordus. Ok, bad example but you know what I mean.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:For some reason 40k has some distinct words like Adeptus Astartes and Adpetus Mechanicus but also some excessively normal ones like Power Armour and Power Weapon. They should come up with something a little more copyrightable like superslicium deathswordus. Ok, bad example but you know what I mean.

Well, they do have the different types of armour, such as the maximus pattern...
Besides, what could you call a suit of power armor? Its sort of a staple of sci-fi. Power weapon follows the same logic.

Reading some of those lengthy lists, I can't help thinking some people should just look elsewhere or write their own story. Thanks god there is more to sci-fi than 40k.

The big change I would make involves storyline. I'd keep it consistent, and actually advance it.

The World of Warhammer Fantasy is part of the 40k universe. The slann are actually the last remnants of the race that battled the Necrons hiding out in a remote corner of galaxy.

For chaos, I'd combine it all into one giant book. Renegades, chaos marines, deamons, traitor legions, even bits of chaos fantasy. The Chaos Legions would have different identities and tweeked armylists again. A chaos armylist could bring a mixture of anything chaos. Even summon chaos warriors from fantasy as eternal warriors of chaos fighting for the side of chaos throughtout eternity- whatever.

Eldar would definitely be light on manpower. Following more of a Iyandan build. Units that had manpower would be more expensive but do even more and have better abilities.

Orcs- I would increase their strength as a trade off for lack of power weapons. Orcs thrive on solving a lot of problems with brute force and I think this would follow that trend. Every orc would be +1 strength.higher in codex. I'd give back the clans, and tweek armylists for each clan.

Imperium- I liked the idea that you could grab bits and pieces of each army. So, I'd make one giant book combining all the armies of the Imperium. and you could mix and match the army depending on what leaders you chose: IG, GK, SoB, WH, Space Marines.

The other armies I don't really know a lot about-

Necrons would get back to old fluff.

Tau- wouldnt really change except maybe add some adopted race abilities.

Dark Eldar are ok as space raiders gathering captives to feed the need.

I have to agree with Kanwulen, in that I do not think that Draigo's fluff is that far-fetched. If anything, it's a little cliched. Commander/leader falls in the midst of a battle against a powerful enemy. The heir to power, in a show of anger and revenge, smashes through the opposition to face the slayer, and although the hero manages to wound the villain (and do something to hurt their pride), the villain escapes final retribution. If that makes any sense, the biggest point I think is that Mortarion escaped, which would imply that Draigo was forced away somehow, since he is a Grey Knight and all, and leaving a daemon "alive" is not something they would do voluntarily.

MOAR GRIMDARK and no new crons. Also, kill draigo and tell the traitor primarchs to get off their backsides and do something. Give failbaddon arms and let him do something. Change the smurfs so that light doesn't shine out of their every orifice and add in some more alpha legion shenigans.

i'm a total noob, having just started miniature gaming this past month, hopefully a beginner's first impressions may be found interesting.
1. when I was looking at armies to choose, I immediately decided that I hate imperial guard because of cadians. they need to look way more sci-fi, and less ww2. i mean, krieg look ww2, but they also have a grim, far future vibe.
2. i looked into tau, but 2 things turned me off. first, if I wanted my army to only have a mech feel, then my infantry options are: fire warriors. and that's it. secondly, i wondered why kroot were part of the tau... i like the mech, attack of the clones asthetic, and i like the alien fleshy forest raider asthetic, but not mixed together. wouldn't it be better for kroot to be a different faction?
3. why are girls consigned to a specific faction? ok, eldar have female models, but why is the majority of the game a no girls allowed club? I get it with orks, but female space marines, imperial guard, chaos, tau, why don't I see any?

Armor doesnt conform to body shape,

Marines can't be female due to hormone stuff.

Sumpumpolis wrote:i'm a total noob, having just started miniature gaming this past month, hopefully a beginner's first impressions may be found interesting.
1. when I was looking at armies to choose, I immediately decided that I hate imperial guard because of cadians. they need to look way more sci-fi, and less ww2. i mean, krieg look ww2, but they also have a grim, far future vibe.
2. i looked into tau, but 2 things turned me off. first, if I wanted my army to only have a mech feel, then my infantry options are: fire warriors. and that's it. secondly, i wondered why kroot were part of the tau... i like the mech, attack of the clones asthetic, and i like the alien fleshy forest raider asthetic, but not mixed together. wouldn't it be better for kroot to be a different faction?
3. why are girls consigned to a specific faction? ok, eldar have female models, but why is the majority of the game a no girls allowed club? I get it with orks, but female space marines, imperial guard, chaos, tau, why don't I see any?

40K may be set in the future, but most/ all themes are taken from Gothic/ fantasy things

IIRC, Kroot were in line to have their own faction in 2nd ed. but thy ended up lumping them into the Tau dex. (might just have been a rumor)

Tau females are physically similar to males, nearly identical save the little marks on their forheads, GW doesn't see the profit in making female IG, although half of all Cadians in the fluff are female. As for SM and CSM, it's a gene-seed thing, any female who tries to be converted into a SM suffers an excruciating death.

Bobthehero wrote:Armor doesnt conform to body shape,

Marines can't be female due to hormone stuff.

1/. Wouldn't be hard to change. Just tell the armourer to beat it out really well there and there

Seriously. The IOM is quite capable of making Power Armour to fit women, and seriously buff women aren't built that much differently than men. They aren't quite as bulky as buff men, but their curves tend to get pared away.


2/. And a mysoginistic A-hole developing the process. If you are capable of genewarping a radiation scarred scrawny scavvie into a angelic looking 8 ft supermodel, making it work on a woman shouldn't be that hard. It's more a case of the fluff-writers making Marines a boys only club so tha tthe 14 year old guys they are marketed to won't feel threatened , imo
I think there's a grand total of one line of text saying that it doesn't work, but given the society i doubt they'd even have tried it, as it would be a new idea, which the IOM are violently against.

FOr the record, before the flames start falling, I don't play, nor have i ever played Femmarines (unless you count Sisters ), but i find it hilarious how offended people seem to get by the idea

1. The necrons Never killed all of the Old ones, They fled and disappeared somewhere during the events of the war in heaven.
2. Space wolves were not manipulated by Horus to kill the thousand sons. They were already traitors.
3. Emperor is dead. Golden throne is just a monument.
4. Other than Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar and the rest of the world would be a bit lighter. While some do kill on sight and its all war and rape and guts and killing. It would be possible to meet a chaos marine or a necron and try to be able to talk to them instead of..Hey wait! Boom....dead!
5. Squats were never killed - I don't like em or even the idea but we need more Xenos codex.
6. GK DONT have psykers. Why should they get a STr 10 AP 1 large blast psykic power AND chimeras for almost nothing when they are Simultaneously the strongest CC army in the game?
They are immune to the warp and psykic energy in every way.....at least in mind.
7.Orks would have TONS more Vehicles and be known as the Xenos Equivalent of I.G in respects of how many different tanks or transports they have. Easily double what there is now and most of the vehicles are unconventional ways of travel!
8. Holy Terra is still a beautiful vibrant planet. NOT a planet with no oceans or plant life that has forsakken and forgotten its past and completely covred in a half a mile thick metal to shield everyone from the old radiation of past war etc etc. Make Holy Terra a beautiful more viberant place. Kinda think a split between japanese and Western super sci fi. Computer keyboards are made of semi solid light suspended in air.

TECHNOLOGY!
Levitating and teleportation platforms are a method of travel and the same goes for stairs.

Walk into an incomprehensible sized room and start walking and when you take a step and squar panel of light appears and you can walk on it and stand. Generated from some Augmentation in your legs and feet so you can basically have instant stairs as you get to a terminal that is your office high where no one else who is "normal" can reach it. Walkers would be more like Gundams in how they can move.
So we don;t have these slow lumbering things that we TODAY can build!

Computers are MUCH smaller! Why is the computer rooms in 40k the same size and appearance as they are in the 1970's? They should be more dynamic looking and more futuery!
Having Holographic semi solid projection images in a room that you can interact with. Kinda think of the computer as a small round cylinder room that is like a holodeck from startrek but the windows and things you interact with is the computer and everything you operate it with. Voice command and touch interface and can even more the windows around the room and do just about anything with them etc.

Warp space Travel would take far less time. Like a day or two or a month at the longest depending on the distance.

Ascalam wrote:
2/. And a mysoginistic A-hole developing the process. If you are capable of genewarping a radiation scarred scrawny scavvie into a angelic looking 8 ft supermodel, making it work on a woman shouldn't be that hard. It's more a case of the fluff-writers making Marines a boys only club so tha tthe 14 year old guys they are marketed to won't feel threatened , imo
I think there's a grand total of one line of text saying that it doesn't work, but given the society i doubt they'd even have tried it, as it would be a new idea, which the IOM are violently against.

I always assumed that no one bothered to develop female Space Marine stuff because the Imperium is made up of sexist, racist jerk faces.

Like i said

Ascalam wrote:

Bobthehero wrote:Armor doesnt conform to body shape,

Marines can't be female due to hormone stuff.

1/. Wouldn't be hard to change. Just tell the armourer to beat it out really well there and there

Seriously. The IOM is quite capable of making Power Armour to fit women, and seriously buff women aren't built that much differently than men. They aren't quite as bulky as buff men, but their curves tend to get pared away.

Power armor, maybe, but mass produced flak/carapace armor? Doubt it.

LoneLictor wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
2/. And a mysoginistic A-hole developing the process. If you are capable of genewarping a radiation scarred scrawny scavvie into a angelic looking 8 ft supermodel, making it work on a woman shouldn't be that hard. It's more a case of the fluff-writers making Marines a boys only club so tha tthe 14 year old guys they are marketed to won't feel threatened , imo
I think there's a grand total of one line of text saying that it doesn't work, but given the society i doubt they'd even have tried it, as it would be a new idea, which the IOM are violently against.

I always assumed that no one bothered to develop female Space Marine stuff because the Imperium is made up of sexist, racist jerk faces.

Or because you guys are ignoring the fact that it causes them a painful death, but y'know thats a stupid reason not to do it

TheAngrySquig wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
2/. And a mysoginistic A-hole developing the process. If you are capable of genewarping a radiation scarred scrawny scavvie into a angelic looking 8 ft supermodel, making it work on a woman shouldn't be that hard. It's more a case of the fluff-writers making Marines a boys only club so tha tthe 14 year old guys they are marketed to won't feel threatened , imo
I think there's a grand total of one line of text saying that it doesn't work, but given the society i doubt they'd even have tried it, as it would be a new idea, which the IOM are violently against.

I always assumed that no one bothered to develop female Space Marine stuff because the Imperium is made up of sexist, racist jerk faces.

Or because you guys are ignoring the fact that it causes them a painful death, but y'know thats a stupid reason not to do it

Well, presumably, the Imperium could augment the technology so that it didn't. How hard could it be? Males and females aren't too different. But yeah, I see two reasons they wouldn't.

1. The Mechanicum hates progress and only restores old stuff instead of building new stuff.
2. The Imperium is made up of sexist, racist jerk faces.

Vasarto wrote:4. Other than Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar and the rest of the world would be a bit lighter. While some do kill on sight and its all war and rape and guts and killing. It would be possible to meet a chaos marine or a necron and try to be able to talk to them instead of..Hey wait! Boom....dead!

8. Holy Terra is still a beautiful vibrant planet. NOT a planet with no oceans or plant life that has forsakken and forgotten its past and completely covred in a half a mile thick metal to shield everyone from the old radiation of past war etc etc. Make Holy Terra a beautiful more viberant place. Kinda think a split between japanese and Western super sci fi. Computer keyboards are made of semi solid light suspended in air.

TECHNOLOGY!
Levitating and teleportation platforms are a method of travel and the same goes for stairs.

Walk into an incomprehensible sized room and start walking and when you take a step and squar panel of light appears and you can walk on it and stand. Generated from some Augmentation in your legs and feet so you can basically have instant stairs as you get to a terminal that is your office high where no one else who is "normal" can reach it. Walkers would be more like Gundams in how they can move.
So we don;t have these slow lumbering things that we TODAY can build!

Computers are MUCH smaller! Why is the computer rooms in 40k the same size and appearance as they are in the 1970's? They should be more dynamic looking and more futuery!
Having Holographic semi solid projection images in a room that you can interact with. Kinda think of the computer as a small round cylinder room that is like a holodeck from startrek but the windows and things you interact with is the computer and everything you operate it with. Voice command and touch interface and can even more the windows around the room and do just about anything with them etc.

Warp space Travel would take far less time. Like a day or two or a month at the longest depending on the distance.

... so make it not 40k anymore? I don't mean this in an obnoxious way, but these things go against more than just little details, they'd change the entire character and spirit of the setting. Everything is unadvanced and lacks elegance on purpose, to reflect the grimdark nature of the universe and the ignorance and fear of the people. Change that, and you've just got another generic sci-fi setting.

Well NO! You can still make it very much grim dark.

A Generic Sci-Fi setting is Politics and Diplomacy and laser battles. What I speak of is simple astetics and advancement of how the technology looks and feels.

Rather than all 1980's computer rooms and giant robots that we today could build. It would actually look and feel like something from in the future.

It would not change what space marines are or how the inquisition deals with zenos or traiors or heratics. Necrons and Tau look just fine. Orks would still for the most part be the same. Tyranids would remain the same.

Its just changing that part where technology and how the our home on Terra is presented is all. Giving a world like this would put a bit less Grim Dark and hopeless nature on our world but put a great deal more emphasis on the aspect of how powerful the human races military, Technological advancement and so forth. The Imperium could be seen as something that is strong and fighting off unimaginable powerful forces of the universe rather than something made of left over ork crap about ready to be wiped off our own planet and from how a lot of the story seems to be progressing so far.

The emperor is probably going to die and Holy Terra is most likely going to fall.

Has anyone suggested lowering the prices of the models ? =p

Bobthehero wrote:

Ascalam wrote:

Bobthehero wrote:Armor doesnt conform to body shape,

Marines can't be female due to hormone stuff.

1/. Wouldn't be hard to change. Just tell the armourer to beat it out really well there and there

Seriously. The IOM is quite capable of making Power Armour to fit women, and seriously buff women aren't built that much differently than men. They aren't quite as bulky as buff men, but their curves tend to get pared away.

Power armor, maybe, but mass produced flak/carapace armor? Doubt it.

You are aware that flak vests exist these days, and that female soldiers and cops wear them ? They are mass produced as well

Carapace- Same thing. Have a mold for a female torso. Not hard to make. Mass produce away.

There are all-female regiments of Guard in the fluff. You think they go into battle in negligees?

(that's more the Repentia's line 4+ armour Everlasts )


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
2/. And a mysoginistic A-hole developing the process. If you are capable of genewarping a radiation scarred scrawny scavvie into a angelic looking 8 ft supermodel, making it work on a woman shouldn't be that hard. It's more a case of the fluff-writers making Marines a boys only club so tha tthe 14 year old guys they are marketed to won't feel threatened , imo
I think there's a grand total of one line of text saying that it doesn't work, but given the society i doubt they'd even have tried it, as it would be a new idea, which the IOM are violently against.

I always assumed that no one bothered to develop female Space Marine stuff because the Imperium is made up of sexist, racist jerk faces.

Or because you guys are ignoring the fact that it causes them a painful death, but y'know thats a stupid reason not to do it

As i pointed out, it takes a whole lot less genetic tinkering to make a genetic mod work for a woman (especially since we are all genetically female before developing to male) than to turn a 5 ft 80 lb glow-in-the dark scavvie into a prettyboy angel-wannabe.

The horrible painful death is because the Big E didn't bother to make the process genetically equal (and becase of the reason i gave for the fluff writers above not wanting to let girls into the clubhouse Genetically it makes zero sense, but that's 40k for you

Vasarto wrote:
8. Holy Terra is still a beautiful vibrant planet. NOT a planet with no oceans or plant life that has forsakken and forgotten its past and completely covred in a half a mile thick metal to shield everyone from the old radiation of past war etc etc. Make Holy Terra a beautiful more viberant place. Kinda think a split between japanese and Western super sci fi. Computer keyboards are made of semi solid light suspended in air.

TECHNOLOGY!
Levitating and teleportation platforms are a method of travel and the same goes for stairs.

Walk into an incomprehensible sized room and start walking and when you take a step and squar panel of light appears and you can walk on it and stand. Generated from some Augmentation in your legs and feet so you can basically have instant stairs as you get to a terminal that is your office high where no one else who is "normal" can reach it. Walkers would be more like Gundams in how they can move.
So we don;t have these slow lumbering things that we TODAY can build!

Computers are MUCH smaller! Why is the computer rooms in 40k the same size and appearance as they are in the 1970's? They should be more dynamic looking and more futuery!
Having Holographic semi solid projection images in a room that you can interact with. Kinda think of the computer as a small round cylinder room that is like a holodeck from startrek but the windows and things you interact with is the computer and everything you operate it with. Voice command and touch interface and can even more the windows around the room and do just about anything with them etc.

Warp space Travel would take far less time. Like a day or two or a month at the longest depending on the distance.

I want to cover these two things. I like that terra is a blackened ruin, it fits the setting, it makes sense. Frankly I am tired of sci-fi games where the earth has been "saved" and made into some kind of pre-mankind paradise.

And on the tech, well there is a few reasons for this. Back in the 80's (when this game was made) large pc's seemed to be the way it would go. Pre- Pentium days no one expected Which is the same reason pc's the size and power we have today so soon. Most games from that era have massive pc's ( Battletech, traveler, even shadowrun to an extent)

Second mankind from what I gathered hit it's apex. The STC's if you ask me can not be rebuilt or remade as they are products of an A.I based system. Humanity hit is peak then tech level became steady. Except must humans did not understand the tech, they told the computer what to do or learned to push a few buttons. Much like today must people can not make our tech- a good number have no clue how it works and could never build it. So over time the tech did it's own thing, humans got lazy. The came the Iron men uprising ( which I think was because A.I's fell to chaos). On top of that you have wrap storm and being cut off and so on. Is it so shocking many folks do not know how things work?

Then you have the IoM's outlook and the deal with the tech-priests. Which hammered home a "Guild" like structure. You did not share your tech know how with just anyone and the tech-priests like you not know. After all that is "Holy knowledge" so you end up with a more classical mindset and not a modern post industrial revolution one. And the people in charge like it that way, they like the worlds of the IoM not having all the knowledge they need.

Ascalam wrote:
You are aware that flak vests exist these days, and that female soldiers and cops wear them ? They are mass produced as well

Carapace- Same thing. Have a mold for a female torso. Not hard to make. Mass produce away.

There are all-female regiments of Guard in the fluff. You think they go into battle in negligees?

(that's more the Repentia's line 4+ armour Everlasts )

They use the same flak vest as their male counterpart, which is mass produced and doesnt grow breast the second a woman wears it.




Now hand them a gasmask do the same with a guy in the same gear, and then tell me which is which.

Bobthehero wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
You are aware that flak vests exist these days, and that female soldiers and cops wear them ? They are mass produced as well

Carapace- Same thing. Have a mold for a female torso. Not hard to make. Mass produce away.

There are all-female regiments of Guard in the fluff. You think they go into battle in negligees?

(that's more the Repentia's line 4+ armour Everlasts )

They use the same flak vest as their male counterpart, which is mass produced and doesnt grow breast the second a woman wears it.

Spoiler:

Now hand them a gasmask do the same with a guy in the same gear, and then tell me which is which.

the pointy ones are girls......

I'm joking.... but that's the way a couple people draw gas masks. Big ones around the face for dudes, and for girls it wraps around the entire head and pointy... Just pointing out the sexism, not joining it

The Emperor didn't bother to make female SMs, because it was a lengthly and difficult process based on his own DNA, and he didn't bother dragging out the process by making it female-compatible in the name of "equality".

Here's a few ideas:

1. BRING BACK MALAL! Malal is true chaos, the embodiement, equal, opposite and remainder of all four of the chaos gods. He is the renegade god that turned against them.
Why? Here's why: with the current chaos gods, you are either a blood thirsty lunatic, a magical guy who has no meaning in life, a humanoid puddle of sick, or an emo that worships a shemale god(dess). Malal is all and none of these. Much more chaossy, and more fun.

2. Grimdark the tau.

3. Eldar aren't clowns.

4. Vanilla marines are grimdark, and can actually be compared to the other marine codexes.

5. The IoM gets semi-annihilated (For the grimdark)

6. The tyranids can feth-off a little. (I've not played a game against them in nearly 6 years, even though I regularly go game-hunting in GW's; clearly they aren't an endless swarm that's everywhere.)

7. The astronomicon isn't failing, but is the only light in humanity's grimdarkness.

8. Abaddon is shown to be successful.

9. Have chaos cultists rules for 40k.

There y'all go!

I think it was a bad move on GW's part putting Cadia so close to the eye of terror. In order for Abbadon to be truly successful, GW would have to figure out how the Cadian IG models will survive.

Have Abaddon attack in another direction. "Oh look, I breached a whole in the IG defense line at Cadia, good I can expand from there."

ie. Instead of going through the defense line and making a right to the Cadian system, make a left and conquer a few territories to the left. Turn these places to Daemon worlds and actuallly INCREASE the size of the Eye of Terror so now Chaos can leave the Eye of Terror without dealing with Cadia.

Galdos wrote:Have Abaddon attack in another direction. "Oh look, I breached a whole in the IG defense line at Cadia, good I can expand from there."

ie. Instead of going through the defense line and making a right to the Cadian system, make a left and conquer a few territories to the left. Turn these places to Daemon worlds and actuallly INCREASE the size of the Eye of Terror so now Chaos can leave the Eye of Terror without dealing with Cadia.

He tried that, more than once.
The only place he got more than a foothold was Cadia, where his forces are stationed, at least partially.

Bobthehero wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
You are aware that flak vests exist these days, and that female soldiers and cops wear them ? They are mass produced as well

Carapace- Same thing. Have a mold for a female torso. Not hard to make. Mass produce away.

There are all-female regiments of Guard in the fluff. You think they go into battle in negligees?

(that's more the Repentia's line 4+ armour Everlasts )

They use the same flak vest as their male counterpart, which is mass produced and doesnt grow breast the second a woman wears it.

Spoiler:

Now hand them a gasmask do the same with a guy in the same gear, and then tell me which is which.

This was your comment:

'Power armor, maybe, but mass produced flak/carapace armor? Doubt it.'



If regular Flak armour already fit women well enough then they don't need to be changed. Never said that they did, not that it would suddenly inflate a pair of armour plates on the front the moment a woman wore it. I've worked with women in flak rigs and other protective gear, though, and generally they've said it doesn't fit quite right, as it was designed for someone taller and male. If they luck out and get one that fits their height, it has tightness issues, and one that fits their chest is too loose over the abdomen, even when cinched tight.


I think you or I might be getting the wrong end of the stick.

I took your comment to mean that they can't mass produce flak/carapace armour that would fit women. My answer is accurate. There are companies that already do, so why not in the IOM?

There ARE flak vests designed to fit women out there, and the manufacturing process would be about the same. If a world had a habit of recruiting all femal IG regiments, it would follow that they would equip them with gear that fit women better, too (assuming thr world in question equips the regiment as well as providing the recruits.


Carapace armour would have to be altered slightly though, unless the carapace armour was fairly roomy in the chest. I'm not claiming that it should be 98 GGG like some anime's

I was saying that the IOM was quite capable of making these adjustments, and it wouldn't be much of a design stretch



Here's a good resource: http://www.bodyarmornews.com/bodyarmordevelopments/bodyarmor-female.htm

Male pattern body armour can be worn by women, but it's not ideal. When you have worlds that have the whole population serving (men and women) or all female regiments it would make sense to develop armour patterns that actually fit them

Remove the use of "Space Marine" and replace it with "Ultramarine" I'm sure that would make Matt Ward's day.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Galdos wrote:Have Abaddon attack in another direction. "Oh look, I breached a whole in the IG defense line at Cadia, good I can expand from there."

ie. Instead of going through the defense line and making a right to the Cadian system, make a left and conquer a few territories to the left. Turn these places to Daemon worlds and actuallly INCREASE the size of the Eye of Terror so now Chaos can leave the Eye of Terror without dealing with Cadia.

He tried that, more than once.
The only place he got more than a foothold was Cadia, where his forces are stationed, at least partially.

I was writting in response to the statements refering to the fact that its a mistake to make Abaddon constantly fighting Cadia. If he wins, Cadia falls and there goes that the Cadian Regiments which you can imagine the problems here, if he loses, he looks like a saturday morning cartoon villian. How to fix this? Have him attack and WIN in another direction. It fixes all the problems.

Silent king of necrons never left the galaxy

Ascalam wrote:

Bobthehero wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
You are aware that flak vests exist these days, and that female soldiers and cops wear them ? They are mass produced as well

Carapace- Same thing. Have a mold for a female torso. Not hard to make. Mass produce away.

There are all-female regiments of Guard in the fluff. You think they go into battle in negligees?

(that's more the Repentia's line 4+ armour Everlasts )

They use the same flak vest as their male counterpart, which is mass produced and doesnt grow breast the second a woman wears it.

Spoiler:

Now hand them a gasmask do the same with a guy in the same gear, and then tell me which is which.

This was your comment:

'Power armor, maybe, but mass produced flak/carapace armor? Doubt it.'



If regular Flak armour already fit women well enough then they don't need to be changed. Never said that they did, not that it would suddenly inflate a pair of armour plates on the front the moment a woman wore it. I've worked with women in flak rigs and other protective gear, though, and generally they've said it doesn't fit quite right, as it was designed for someone taller and male. If they luck out and get one that fits their height, it has tightness issues, and one that fits their chest is too loose over the abdomen, even when cinched tight.


I think you or I might be getting the wrong end of the stick.

I took your comment to mean that they can't mass produce flak/carapace armour that would fit women. My answer is accurate. There are companies that already do, so why not in the IOM?

There ARE flak vests designed to fit women out there, and the manufacturing process would be about the same. If a world had a habit of recruiting all femal IG regiments, it would follow that they would equip them with gear that fit women better, too (assuming thr world in question equips the regiment as well as providing the recruits.


Carapace armour would have to be altered slightly though, unless the carapace armour was fairly roomy in the chest. I'm not claiming that it should be 98 GGG like some anime's

I was saying that the IOM was quite capable of making these adjustments, and it wouldn't be much of a design stretch



Here's a good resource: http://www.bodyarmornews.com/bodyarmordevelopments/bodyarmor-female.htm

Male pattern body armour can be worn by women, but it's not ideal. When you have worlds that have the whole population serving (men and women) or all female regiments it would make sense to develop armour patterns that actually fit them

I meant to say that women wear the flak vests designed for men, and thats why most torsos are the same. The IoM is very set in their way mind you, might explain it.

Fair enough then.

Women wear the flak vests made for men (in the military at least, the cops have vests for either gender in some places) because up until quite recently women weren't allowed on the battlefield. The military establishment is old men, generally, who don't think of/care about these things

Much the same with the IOM i suppose, but i can see worlds prone to female soldiers making a variant for those soldiers without Imperial sanction. I doubt the AdMech would notice, or care if they did. Uniform is somewhat variable anyway (DKOK, Kaledon Hunters, Voyasterans ) so the armour is probably locally produced also, and just as variable. The Lasguns are certainly different in design from place to place, after all.

Galdos wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Galdos wrote:Have Abaddon attack in another direction. "Oh look, I breached a whole in the IG defense line at Cadia, good I can expand from there."

ie. Instead of going through the defense line and making a right to the Cadian system, make a left and conquer a few territories to the left. Turn these places to Daemon worlds and actuallly INCREASE the size of the Eye of Terror so now Chaos can leave the Eye of Terror without dealing with Cadia.

He tried that, more than once.
The only place he got more than a foothold was Cadia, where his forces are stationed, at least partially.

I was writting in response to the statements refering to the fact that its a mistake to make Abaddon constantly fighting Cadia. If he wins, Cadia falls and there goes that the Cadian Regiments which you can imagine the problems here, if he loses, he looks like a saturday morning cartoon villian. How to fix this? Have him attack and WIN in another direction. It fixes all the problems.

See http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

In the 13th Black Crusade, Abaddon took the majority of Cadia, most of the worlds in the Cadia system, and many of the systems in the neighboring subsector, with one turning into a Nurgle daemon world. In the Apocalypse rulebook, he is shown in the Thesus sector (i.e. out of the sectors of the Cadian Gate), showing that at least Abaddon's main force has moved beyond the Gate.

The loss of Cadia would hardly be a huge problem to fit into background. Considering the number of Cadian regiments out there, it would easily be possible to write the founding of a "Nova Cadia" or how these Cadians strive to reclaim their lost home. Cadia occupied does not mean Cadia is destroyed, and the "awesomeness" of the Cadians can be tempered with loss and grief.

The Imperium is collapsing. Make it look as if it is. Ultima Macharia is gone, as are others, as the Astronomican recedes, the Emperor may be dying, Abaddon has a foothold this side of the eye, Kryptmann is burning the Imperium in front of Hive Fleet Leviathan, the Tau are on another offensive - let's see some damage!

-I'd give more love to the Salamanders, White Scars, and Iron Hands. Three very unique legions who tend to (quite possibly) be victims of their own uniqueness.

-While I don't have any major qualms with Tyranids as they are, if I were rebooting the setting, I'd probably leave them out. I'm a bit worn down on "super bugs from outer space".

Colonel Jurten wrote: the Emperor may be dying
Abaddon has a foothold this side of the eye

That would be a step back from what we have currently, as in the 5th ed book it was confirmed that the golden throne is failing.

And as someone pointed out, if Abbadon took cadia then GW would have to come up with one hell of an excuse to keep selling cadian models.

That was me waffling. I was not citing new bits of fluff I would invent, but real 40K fluff [Ast. is in one of the codices, UM from Lexicanum, Hive ditto] , however mangled it may have become by me (sorry). I meant, of course, is dying. Abaddon has most of the Cadian system, does he not? Surely we should be hearing more activity - Chaos attacks and so on - perhaps a new fluff series about the aftermath of the 13th BC.

This is what I was trying to say, but put better and more clearly - an Imperium on the road into collapse (although still the Imperium - sort of like the decaying Roman Empire, the title of which, at least, in the form given by the Pope to Charlemagne, lingered until 1803) coming apart as the various factions start to squabble.

Portray the Imperium as even more of a dying Empire in which central authority is failing.

This way we can have the Space Marine factions acting with a lot more autonomy; trying to carve out order, or opportunistically make their own little Empires, or just soldiering on.

Of the new Necron characteristics I like is the inter-conflict they've got going on: I think the Imperium, though officially intact, would benefit from having more visible contentions within it; i.e. the Mechanicum hearing rumours of technology on an Ecclesiarchial world, actually rocking up to it with a fleet and threatening to capture it by force; hell, the two factions can even have a theological dispute over the nature of the Omnissiah.

And the poor Guard is stuck in the middle...

Long story short: It's cooler for command to be removed as it means that the various entities of the Imperium will have to act on their own initiative: Be it well-intentioned conforming to 'the spirit' of what the Imperium tends to want/benefit from, or opportunistic power-building. Sort of like the Galactic Empire during the Warlords Period in Star Wars.

Certainly, the whole Imperium should shakily pull together at times, for instance, against Abaddon - for example, Pope Innocent (sorry for the doses of history) managed to unite Christendom, very rickety, but still an alliance, in the Crusades and the Throne of Earth should still command respect and power, but a long fluff arc of a decaying Imperium coming slowly apart - it would need a good trigger, or some sort of revolt, as the weakness of the Imperium and the Imperial hold would need to be revealed, again slowly (perhaps Terra could bluff through some of the chaos).

Edited for atrocious grammar.

FallenHero32 wrote:Keep it the same, except ADVANCE THE STORYLINE!

By the Emperor! A man after my own heart!

40k doesn't need a reboot, it needs progress! The same old crap keeps being redone and whatever people don't like is merely retconned! What needs to happen is a Victory for Abbadon (for once), and end to the Third War for Armageddon, and a clear cut victor in said war! Does Yarrick finally kill Warboss Gashugfakgh? Do the Blood Ravens discover who their Primarch was? TELL US!

Actually, yes. 40K is fine as-is, but it does need a move on. Then perhaps I and others would be indulged in whatever we want in the advancing fluff,but either way, it would keep us all on our toes, keep the story moving and keep us all interested. I don't mind cliffhangers and interesting asides, but I, and even though I am still a newbie, I think I can speak for everyone, do not like loose ends.

While not being the most experienced in the 40k fluff, as a whole, i must admit there's parts i do enjoy more than others.

However, one thing i do not enjoy, when contemplating fresh new ideas, implemented into the universe, is lack of respect for the already-written. If you're doing radical changes towards something, you damn better be prepared to explain why these changes finds place, within the given storys boundaries. Going as far as to re-write something, saying that the previous never found place.

Yes - progress not with respect, GW, another ret-con. I won't say anymore on this topic as I have been banging on for three posts now, but I think a consensus here would be progress.

Well, If I were to re-boot 40k I would make all of the Alien races so much of a threat to the Imperium in gameplay terms that it would be hard for the Imperial Codexes to win. Not saying impossible, just hard. As it stands now, Imperial codexes seem to be winning all over the place while the Xenos languish in the laughter of people who play things like Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Blood Angels....

If the Xenos races are supposed to be such a threat to the Imperium, lets see it reflected in the codex design.

Why are the Tyranids, Tau, Eldar, Orks, Chaos etc thought of as bad playable armies in 40k? Why are they not a bigger threat to the Imperium?

If I could re-boot 40k, I would make them incredibly dangerous to Imperial Armies just to reflect how precarious the Imperiums grasp on the Galaxy really is.

Make everything smaller...

Like population sizes, ships, tanks etc... An example of this is the Emperor Class BS... Why does it have million of people on it?

Also...

I hate how everything is depicted as bulky... Armor, guns, ships, vehicles etc...

Not everything is bulky, just everything Human-made

That's actually a common theme in a lot of sci-fi.

Look at the human ships on Babylon 5, for example, and compare them to the Minbari, Shadows, Vorlons... Humans build clunky-ass tin cans, and the IOM is characterised by it's clunky WW1 vibe.

The sizes issue is true enough. IOM overcompensation again

How many tech adepts does ot take to change a glow-panel?

1.5 Million. One to perform the delicate ritual of unscrewing, and the rest to chant 'rhubarb' ominously in overlapping chorus.

Bigger shoulder guards. They're too small.

usmcmidn wrote:Make everything smaller...

Like population sizes, ships, tanks etc... An example of this is the Emperor Class BS... Why does it have million of people on it?

Also...

I hate how everything is depicted as bulky... Armor, guns, ships, vehicles etc...

it has a hundred thousand on it at the most, not a million.

they are to run the ship and board enemy ships. plus, you need many many backup layers of crewmen since they die so often.

Progress? Advancement?

Reboot 40 k hmmmmm

Unify the black library and GW fluff so its not so inconsistent

or

Return the IG to 3rd edition codex and make the Armored Company codex official as well for IG - Put the 2 codecies in one book.

ATM we have situations where in a 2000 point game you are fighting almost 150 guarsmen with straken and 6 LRBTs - its crazy

well, to be fair, the guard are pretty known for their troop spam

I would have more interaction between races. The war focus has divided the universe into these factions that don't do anything except shoot at each other. It loses the way Rogue Trader had a more gritty, varied universe. Space marines using eldar technology. Tau trading with humans. Orks lost a lot of civilization they once had.

I'd make Orks more barbarians and less "orky". I know I've enjoyed the way orks evolved into funny, dumb, lucky fools, but it's taken them too far so now you can't even imagine them interacting with humans or eldar except int the most rediculous way. I hate to say it, Orks need to be smarter and show a side that is not all about big guns and loud noises. Gretchin are there for the comic relief. They need to be more wicked and - human.

The IoM has strict xenophobic policies that make sense for Space Marines, but the rest of the IoM wouldn't care to be as strictly "kill the alien". You an still be grim dark without having such huge divisions between the factions. Chaos is all or nothing. Xeno influence is all or nothing. I'd like to see much more corruption and influence between all of them. Show how most imperial worlds are more than happy to harbor aliens and be corrupted by xenos and chaos when the inquisitorial people aren't around. Less of the 'you found a speck of chaos? nuke the globe' that just gives the impression that imperial worlds can be pure. they should all be tainted by chaos. All should have xeno influnces.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

The IoM has strict xenophobic policies that make sense for Space Marines, but the rest of the IoM wouldn't care to be as strictly "kill the alien". You an still be grim dark without having such huge divisions between the factions. Chaos is all or nothing. Xeno influence is all or nothing. I'd like to see much more corruption and influence between all of them. Show how most imperial worlds are more than happy to harbor aliens and be corrupted by xenos and chaos when the inquisitorial people aren't around. Less of the 'you found a speck of chaos? nuke the globe' that just gives the impression that imperial worlds can be pure. they should all be tainted by chaos. All should have xeno influnces.

That already exists. Some governors or Generals are willing to use xeno tech. Its heavily frowned upon, however.

Make the Tau more significant on a galactic scale. Like, make the Empire bigger etc.

I have been drooling over the pages of this thread for some time now, contemplating the ideas.

In regards of my previous post, I cannot lay enough stress on one aspect; Having competent writers write the fluff. Time and again, I've experienced authors completely mangling existing story, simply because it didn't suit their tastes. I find this to be an outrageous act. If you are going to implement radical changes to a story, you at least put in it a certain amount of decency and show your utmost respect for whichever story has already been written.
- This tendency that keeps ruling our day fluff, to simply alter or completely change the story, without as much as a heads up, or in any regard, a red thread, that keeps things together is a ridiculously frivolous and disrespectful attempt to create an interesting progress in the given fluff.

As for the OT-thread, I do enjoy many of the aspects of the existing fluff (disregarding the latter). It's not anything near J. R. R. Tolkien. But I don't feel it NEEDS to either. It shows creativity and a great amount of imagination. To simply put everything together from scrap, for us to enjoy, hasn't been an easy task (Keeping up with it is a whole other story ).

I am not sure I feel any need to completely reboot the 40k universe. But there are fluff I do enjoy more than other. Here are some of my ideas...

Human Factions
- The Realm of Chaos should be portraited, in every regard, as something untouchable and near undefinable.
- The Chaos Factions - both demons and CSM alike - should play a larger role, and pose a much greater thread. I agree that these guys needs to be removed from their so-called "super villain"-role.
- The Space Marines needs some work. In my book, this basically cooks down to what I'd classify as Superman Stereotype (e.g. We know he's mortal, but... It hardly ever shows!). While I do enjoy the concept of our beloved SM's, i can't say I enjoy that feel of them being oh-so-heroic and always pulling through despite the odds. Have them lose once in a while!
- The Imperial Guard deserves a medal! No. Really, what I'd like for them is to have a more vital role, other than always awaiting the Heroic SM's to arrive and to save the day.

Xeno Factions
- The Orks. I simply just love them the way they are. They pretty much work. Savage... Simple-minded... Waaagh'ing... What's not to love about them?
- The Eldar. I can only repeat posts through out this thread; They really need to rely more upon wraithbone constructs and the like. They're few in numbers, at the brink of extinction, and yet, they keep throwing away lives, rather than utilizing their so-called "technological superiority", to serve as either a meat shield or superior weaponry.
- The Dark Eldar, I think, has a great potential of becoming a far, far greater threat to any other faction, than they already are. Their lack of moral and great lust for suffering, combined with their surgical strike capabilities, should provide a solid breeding ground for having them serve as a constant threat. What these guys really need is purpose, rather than just being some torture-craving evil faction, that doesn't do much more than taking liking in suffering and evol deeds!.
- The Tau always seems to finish last, in the big run. Such a small faction, which real survival relies on the bigger factions lack of attention towards them (e.g. they're not even worth the trouble). These guys, together with both the Eldar and the Dark Eldar holds a much greater potential, than what they're currently enlisted as.

I do think that what this cooks down to, as a whole, is a lack of progress. There are too many stereotype examples through out the fluff, as a whole, which could be manipulated and made work. If a given author were to create a greater event within the universe, he's be fertilizing options (depending on the given event). The current fluff more than serves as "fertile soil" to have new stories spring out from. All it really takes is imagination, creativity, and most important; respect for what has been already written.

So what the fluff ultimately starves from is a controversial event, laying new grounds for small and large factions alike, to act on and play a vital role in. The real progress would be to break the stereotypes, that has been formed in nowadays fluff.

Magic wand in hand, I would want to change the nids. I like the idea behind nids, but they come off too human or too robot like. When you see them holding guns, it takes away from them.

Ascalam wrote:
How many tech adepts does ot take to change a glow-panel?

1.5 Million. One to perform the delicate ritual of unscrewing, and the rest to chant 'rhubarb' ominously in overlapping chorus.

Hehe, this is the best thing said in the whole thread.


Changes I would make off hand id to make fluff a bit more uniform, to much clash, ships are 5 Km long...no this book has one at 30 meters and the like. And I know I am gonna get alot of hate off this one but....I hate the IoM aesthetics. SM are goofy and cartoon with shoulder pads I feel that are hampering and useless. Almost every tank made is goofy, its just awful ww1 style tanks over and over. I mean the tech is suppose to be reliable and so advanced people do not even understand it all that well, it sure as hell should look it. The admech have this 1980's-1990's cyber vibe going with clunky cyber and wires EVERYWHERE. Yet the machines as a whole have a ww1 vibe. I would make em look about the same era, a 80-90's style tank would look very 40k...just throw some skulls on it.

I do agree the eldra should be using something other then warm bodies as well., Orks are fine as is. The tua should also have a larger foot hold I feel. I mean they understand their tech after all.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:4 - Swap Tau for Demiurge - I'm sorry I know that Tau have their fans but they've had almost 10 years and have not caught my interest. Steampunk/diesel punk space dwarfs would.

You Sir... Most certainly have my vote!

But also, I'd have the squats evolve into the Demiurg rather than get eaten... as that was just stooopid...

Oh and what I'd alter is The Hive Mind somehow gets prescience and stops the "Cruddace" threat before it happens


Joking aside, I wouldn't want to see the Necrons in a reboot. As, personally, I find them too much "Undead in space" for my liking.

1) Allow Female SM.
2) Split the Imperium of Man (between West and East)
3) Allow that smaller human space-faring empires exist, who have had greater or lesser degrees of success fighting off etc etc.
4) Malal.

Get rid of Stormtroopers and replace them with Space Marines. That would make for better balance of human/ superhuman, and reflect the relatively small number of Marines available.

Next, as others said, some common sense. If you can raze a planet from space, why would you go to all the trouble of landing ground forces to fight with swords?

IG, make it so they're either completely planet bound, without spacefleet backup, or take away all heavy support. So, the grunts on the ground either get landed with everything, and the fleet goes off elsewhere, or they go in on foot and call in fire support from the fleet as necessary. Having both is pointless.

SM should lose all their tanks, the power armour should be enough, they're meant to be "special forces", not "heavy" IG.

I'd also bring in something that allowed Dreadnoughts (noble, badly wounded veterans of a thousand skirmishes) to say "I've had enough now" and self destruct.

And lastly, allow IG to use anything they've captured or picked up on their travels: all that alien technology can't be too difficult to figure, ammo here, trigger there, simples!