I've seen the kind of mess this kind of guy can make of people's lives by using their position to act as a predator. As a father, this is something that really gets me pissed.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment.
She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb.
I truly despise predators like this.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment.
She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb.
I truly despise predators like this.
I know teenage boys who've beat their girlfriends black and blue. Point?
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment.
She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb.
I truly despise predators like this.
Which, while horribly sad, isn't any sort of indicator that this case will turn out even remotely similar. Unless of course we receive more information that points to a less cut/dry verdict.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
Except it potentially violates sexual harassment statutes anywhere in the US and potentially statutory rape statutes. This started when she was a fish (AKA 14 YEARS OLD) and potentially a student. Plus it just fethed up the girl's life, the life of his wife, and his kids. Years from now he's going to wonder why his kids refuse to see him.
The art of kanly still has its adherents...
To quote the immortal bard: Parkerize him! (two intranets if someone knows that phrase without looking it up on the intranetz).
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment.
She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb.
I truly despise predators like this.
I know teenage boys who've beat their girlfriends black and blue. Point?
I get pissed with any type of cowardly piece of crap like that. You might be alright with this kind of story now, but wait until you're a parent.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
biccat wrote:
Relapse wrote:I truly despise predators like this.
Are we going to get into stereotypes based on people who have had bad relationships? This could be fun.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment. She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb. I truly despise predators like this.
I know teenage boys who've beat their girlfriends black and blue. Point?
Stalking 14 year olds, as in this case, is child predatory behavior. Thats the ing point.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
Except it potentially violates sexual harassment statutes anywhere in the US and potentially statutory rape statutes. This started when she was a fish (AKA 14 YEARS OLD) and potentially a student. Plus it just fethed up the girl's life, the life of his wife, and his kids. Years from now he's going to wonder why his kids refuse to see him.
The art of kanly still has its adherents...
To quote the immortal bard: Parkerize him! (two intranets if someone knows that phrase without looking it up on the intranetz).
Not only that, but the kids this woman had with her teacher are messed up also, due to the nature of their relationship. Guys like this are just predators, not much above pond scum on the evolutionary scale.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment.
She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb.
I truly despise predators like this.
I know teenage boys who've beat their girlfriends black and blue. Point?
Stalking 14 year olds, as in this case, is child predatory behavior. Thats the ing point.
I don't see anything in the article about "stalking", am I missing it?
Also lol at this quote from the mother:
"She said her daughter was "always compliant," kept her room tidy at their Waterford home and minded her curfew. No R-rated movies until she was of age. No lone trips to the mall or the movies."
That's what happens when you keep your kid on a leash.
biccat wrote:I once knew a guy who dated a Jewish girl...
You don't have a clue.
About dating Jewish girls?
Please, enlighten me.
Frazzled wrote:Except it potentially violates sexual harassment statutes anywhere in the US and potentially statutory rape statutes. This started when she was a fish (AKA 14 YEARS OLD) and potentially a student.
But there's no evidence that there was any sort of sexual contact between them, or that he used his position inappropriately: "Modesto police are trying to determine if there was inappropriate contact between the teacher and the student before she turned 18 in the fall."
Nothing but a good old-fashioned witch hunt. The guy is a teacher, he decided to shack up with a student (once she turned 18 apparently), and now he lost his job and is being investigated by the police.
If there had been any evidence of misconduct or inappropriate actions he would already be in jail.
Frazzled wrote:Years from now he's going to wonder why his kids refuse to see him.
I doubt that. I think he will know very well why his kids will refuse to see him.
And it should be for the same reason kids refuse to see their dad regardless of the reason he left his family.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment. She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb. I truly despise predators like this.
I know teenage boys who've beat their girlfriends black and blue. Point?
Stalking 14 year olds, as in this case, is child predatory behavior. Thats the ing point.
I don't see anything in the article about "stalking", am I missing it? Also lol at this quote from the mother: "She said her daughter was "always compliant," kept her room tidy at their Waterford home and minded her curfew. No R-rated movies until she was of age. No lone trips to the mall or the movies." That's what happens when you keep your kid on a leash.
What part of being a pedophile do you not get? (EDITED BY FRAZZLED AS BEING INAPROPRIATE: Are you serious or versed at all in any law whatsoever? I know Britain has a better legal system than the US, but even here thats a felony. In the UK they probably feed them to the haggis monster or something.
Frazzled wrote:
What part of being a pedophile do you not get? Are you even remotely sane or versed at all in any law whatsoever?
I know Britain has a better legal system than the US, but even here thats a felony. In the UK they probably feed them to the haggis monster or something.
In the UK the age of consent is 16. As far as I can tell he wasn't attracted to her before she reached "maturity" so playing the peadophile card seems uncalled for.
Frazzled wrote:What part of being a pedophile do you not get? Are you even remotely sane or versed at all in any law whatsoever? I know Britain has a better legal system than the US, but even here thats a felony. In the UK they probably feed them to the haggis monster or something.
Being a pedophile isn't illegal. Having sex with kids is illegal.
If he wasn't in a position of authority over her then there's no problem, as long as she was of age.
...wow, age of consent in California is 18, wtf? If you have sex under 18 (even with someone your age), you're guilty of at least a misdemeanor.
I've bolded the parts that hammers him and sets the school up for liability by the way.
EDIT: I should apologize for asking if Joey had a brain in his head. Thats uncalled for.
MODESTO -- A 41-year-old Enochs High School teacher in Modesto has resigned and moved in with an 18-year-old student.
The reaction has been largely shock, disapproval and betrayal.
The teen's mother has waged a very public campaign on Facebook since last week, when her daughter moved out of the family's home and into a Modesto apartment with the man. He has left his wife and children, one of whom is a junior at Enochs.
Modesto Bee - Debbie Noda/dnoda@modbee.com Enochs High School student Jordan Powers, 18, and James Hooker, 41, a teacher who recently resigned from Enochs High School (2-28-12) talk about their relationship.
CLICK FOR MORE PHOTOS
News 10 story on teacher-student relationship
Tammie Powers' Facebook page
FOX40 story and video on teacher-student relationship
Modesto police are investigating whether there was inappropriate contact before the girl turned 18 in the fall.And school district and teachers union officials worry that an ethical and moral line has been crossed, even if the student is legally an adult.
James Hooker was placed on paid administrative leave Feb. 3 by Modesto City Schools and resigned Feb. 22, he said Tuesday. Hooker taught business and computer classes, and he was an adviser to three active campus clubs.
"In making our choice, we've hurt a lot of people," Hooker acknowledged. "We keep asking ourselves, 'Do we make everyone else happy or do we follow our hearts?' "
Hooker and Enochs senior Jordan Powers said Tuesday in an interview at The Bee that they are making a life for themselves "day by day."
Powers was in Hooker's virtual business class and an associated club until his suspension. They said they met when she was a freshman.Tammie Powers, Jordan's mother, said she believes Hooker pursued her daughter. She said her daughter's grades fell this year, and Jordan had panic attacks.
"I believe it was the stress of the lie," Tammie Powers said. She said her daughter was "always compliant," kept her room tidy at their Waterford home and minded her curfew. No R-rated movies until she was of age. No lone trips to the mall or the movies.
Frazzled wrote:
What part of being a pedophile do you not get? Are you even remotely sane or versed at all in any law whatsoever?
I know Britain has a better legal system than the US, but even here thats a felony. In the UK they probably feed them to the haggis monster or something.
In the UK the age of consent is 16. As far as I can tell he wasn't attracted to her before she reached "maturity" so playing the peadophile card seems uncalled for.
He met her as a Freshman. Unless she was held back a few years she would have been substantially below that.
Frazzled wrote:I've bolded the parts that hammers him and sets the school up for liability by the way.
EDIT: I should apologize for asking if Joey had a brain in his head. Thats uncalled for.
MODESTO -- A 41-year-old Enochs High School teacher in Modesto has resigned and moved in with an 18-year-old student.
The reaction has been largely shock, disapproval and betrayal.
The teen's mother has waged a very public campaign on Facebook since last week, when her daughter moved out of the family's home and into a Modesto apartment with the man. He has left his wife and children, one of whom is a junior at Enochs.
Modesto Bee - Debbie Noda/dnoda@modbee.com Enochs High School student Jordan Powers, 18, and James Hooker, 41, a teacher who recently resigned from Enochs High School (2-28-12) talk about their relationship.
CLICK FOR MORE PHOTOS
News 10 story on teacher-student relationship
Tammie Powers' Facebook page
FOX40 story and video on teacher-student relationship
Modesto police are investigating whether there was inappropriate contact before the girl turned 18 in the fall.And school district and teachers union officials worry that an ethical and moral line has been crossed, even if the student is legally an adult.
James Hooker was placed on paid administrative leave Feb. 3 by Modesto City Schools and resigned Feb. 22, he said Tuesday. Hooker taught business and computer classes, and he was an adviser to three active campus clubs.
"In making our choice, we've hurt a lot of people," Hooker acknowledged. "We keep asking ourselves, 'Do we make everyone else happy or do we follow our hearts?' "
Hooker and Enochs senior Jordan Powers said Tuesday in an interview at The Bee that they are making a life for themselves "day by day."
Powers was in Hooker's virtual business class and an associated club until his suspension. They said they met when she was a freshman.Tammie Powers, Jordan's mother, said she believes Hooker pursued her daughter. She said her daughter's grades fell this year, and Jordan had panic attacks.
"I believe it was the stress of the lie," Tammie Powers said. She said her daughter was "always compliant," kept her room tidy at their Waterford home and minded her curfew. No R-rated movies until she was of age. No lone trips to the mall or the movies.
Her mother has clearly made those accusations up because she wants everyone to think that the teacher has "preyed" on her daughter. Teenage girls are quite stupid enough to do that for themselves.
But there's no evidence that there was any sort of sexual contact between them, or that he used his position inappropriately:
"Modesto police are trying to determine if there was inappropriate contact between the teacher and the student before she turned 18 in the fall."
Nothing but a good old-fashioned witch hunt. The guy is a teacher, he decided to shack up with a student (once she turned 18 apparently), and now he lost his job and is being investigated by the police.
If there had been any evidence of misconduct or inappropriate actions he would already be in jail.
I doubt that. We’ll see charges pretty soon.
doubt that. I think he will know very well why his kids will refuse to see him.
And it should be for the same reason kids refuse to see their dad regardless of the reason he left his family.
It doesn’t work that way in the real world.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
biccat wrote:
Joey wrote:
Relapse wrote:@Frazzled,
Not much point in talking this over with a couple of 14 year olds.
I'm 23.
I'm...not.
But I can remember 23, vaguely.
I can't even do that now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Her mother has clearly made those accusations up because she wants everyone to think that the teacher has "preyed" on her daughter. Teenage girls are quite stupid enough to do that for themselves.
I'd love to see this guy get jail time, but scum like this just seem to get away with it. Like I said earlier, no point in talking this over with 14 year olds that don't have kids.
Her mother has clearly made those accusations up because she wants everyone to think that the teacher has "preyed" on her daughter. Teenage girls are quite stupid enough to do that for themselves.
I have a friend who went out with a 35 year old man when she was 18/19. Some girls just like older men. Why does that automatically mean he's on the same level as paedophiles and rapists?
I'd love to see this guy get jail time, but scum like this just seem to get away with it.
Yep. When I was in LA we would see these guys often. The dirty truth is that a vast majority of teenage pregnancy (at least in Southern California by study) was due to men over 21. Way creepy.
I'd love to see this guy get jail time, but scum like this just seem to get away with it. Like I said earlier, no point in talking this over with 14 year olds that don't have kids.
He'll get jail time if the police charge him and the courts find him guilty of said charges.
Having said that, this is a case I think it's worth keeping an eye on, if only to find out the full story. No doubt it will unfold in time.
It seems there's not much evidence at all for anything sexual happening before she was 18. And, unless she decides to testify, I don't think they can do much.
And, as for biccat. I agree, it seems that people are leaping to the "he's a pedophile, get him" rather quickly. But, the school had every right to terminate him. Having a romantic relationship with a student (even if they are of-age) could be against their rules. Hell, plenty of colleges have that rule and will fire professors for sleeping with grad students.
It's no different than you sleeping with one of your clients. You'd be disbarred (or, at least face disciplinary hearings).
Grakmar wrote:And, as for biccat. I agree, it seems that people are leaping to the "he's a pedophile, get him" rather quickly. But, the school had every right to terminate him. Having a romantic relationship with a student (even if they are of-age) could be against their rules. Hell, plenty of colleges have that rule and will fire professors for sleeping with grad students.
It's no different than you sleeping with one of your clients. You'd be disbarred (or, at least face disciplinary hearings).
Yes, I think most schools don't allow it. Unprofessional conduct, I think, though I can't remember the precise phrasing.
I had a neighbor that was married to someone 18 years younger than himself. The relationship started when she was just barely legal.
She was the one that worked and supported the family while he sat on his ass talking about how good he was and how no one would hire him because they were afraid of losing their job to him.
The woman was 8 months pregnent and doing a 45 minute commute to work because this leach couldn't be bothered to work.
It seems there's not much evidence at all for anything sexual happening before she was 18. And, unless she decides to testify, I don't think they can do much.
And, as for biccat. I agree, it seems that people are leaping to the "he's a pedophile, get him" rather quickly. But, the school had every right to terminate him. Having a romantic relationship with a student (even if they are of-age) could be against their rules. Hell, plenty of colleges have that rule and will fire professors for sleeping with grad students.
It's no different than you sleeping with one of your clients. You'd be disbarred (or, at least face disciplinary hearings).
Its not lapsing into 41 year old guy meeting underage girl who was a student in his classroom. Thats derp de derp that something is amiss. Plus all the other students in his classes at the time could now sue, claiming their grades were negatively impacted.
Grakmar wrote:It's no different than you sleeping with one of your clients. You'd be disbarred (or, at least face disciplinary hearings).
I'd have to look into that*, I think at least one of the states I'm admitted in lets me sleep with a client. Of course, I'd get disbarred from the others, and then disbarred in the permitting state for violating other states' rules. I probably would be OK with the PTO. They're pretty lenient as far as disciplinary actions go.
The school probably could have properly suspended him, but he gave up any right to fight the issue when he resigned. Teachers unions exist to keep guys like this in the classroom until there's been a final determination one way or the other.
Grakmar wrote:It's no different than you sleeping with one of your clients. You'd be disbarred (or, at least face disciplinary hearings).
I'd have to look into that*, I think at least one of the states I'm admitted in lets me sleep with a client. Of course, I'd get disbarred from the others, and then disbarred in the permitting state for violating other states' rules. I probably would be OK with the PTO. They're pretty lenient as far as disciplinary actions go.
The school probably could have properly suspended him, but he gave up any right to fight the issue when he resigned. Teachers unions exist to keep guys like this in the classroom until there's been a final determination one way or the other.
* well, I would if I cared.
(My wife is a lawyer and I recently helped her study for the MPRE.)
You can continue a sexual relationship with a client if the relationship pre-dated him or her becoming a client. But, you cannot start a sexual relationship with a pre-existing client.
Relapse wrote:I had a neighbor that was married to someone 18 years younger than himself. The relationship started when she was just barely legal.
She was the one that worked and supported the family while he sat on his ass talking about how good he was and how no one would hire him because they were afraid of losing their job to him.
The woman was 8 months pregnent and doing a 45 minute commute to work because this leach couldn't be bothered to work.
So? Another unfortunate tale, but a few people here are labeling this guy as a Pedophile before we have any information that points to that other than "they met when she was a freshman".
Professional misconduct is obvious, he was suspended after all. Was he in any wrong beyond that? We don't know. Stop jumping to scapegoat people.
It seems there's not much evidence at all for anything sexual happening before she was 18. And, unless she decides to testify, I don't think they can do much.
Its not lapsing into 41 year old guy meeting underage girl who was a student in his classroom. Thats derp de derp that something is amiss. Plus all the other students in his classes at the time could now sue, claiming their grades were negatively impacted.
Oh, I think it's fairly clear that something inappropriate and maybe illegal was going on. But, they're going to need an actual witness who saw them (and not just kissing) to make a criminal case. Otherwise, both will just deny they had sex, and no judge is going to ever let a "gut-feeling" even get to a trial.
And, I don't see how the students suing has anything to do with anything. Sure, they might be able to make a case. But, that doesn't result in any charges.
Relapse wrote:I had a neighbor that was married to someone 18 years younger than himself. The relationship started when she was just barely legal.
She was the one that worked and supported the family while he sat on his ass talking about how good he was and how no one would hire him because they were afraid of losing their job to him.
The woman was 8 months pregnent and doing a 45 minute commute to work because this leach couldn't be bothered to work.
So? Another unfortunate tale, but a few people here are labeling this guy as a Pedophile before we have any information that points to that other than "they met when she was a freshman".
Professional misconduct is obvious, he was suspended after all. Was he in any wrong beyond that? We don't know. Stop jumping to scapegoat people.
Strangely enough, I am willing to suspend my belief in innocent until proven guilty in this case. That of course doesn't count all the lives he just destroyed.
In the words of the immortal bard: unleash the Hounds!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, I don't see how the students suing has anything to do with anything. Sure, they might be able to make a case. But, that doesn't result in any charges.
Its a type of harassment claim. Instead of the usual "harmful environment" its almost reverse discrimination, a lack of preferential treatment as it were.
Grakmar wrote:My wife is a lawyer and I recently helped her study for the MPRE.) You can continue a sexual relationship with a client if the relationship pre-dated him or her becoming a client. But, you cannot start a sexual relationship with a pre-existing client.
Individual states have their own ethical rules, the MPRE tests you on the model rules set forth by the ABA. So there may be some differences between ABA rules and certain state rules.
I don't have any clients that I'd want to have a sexual relationship with, so it's really not something I'm interested in.
Relapse wrote:I had a neighbor that was married to someone 18 years younger than himself. The relationship started when she was just barely legal.
She was the one that worked and supported the family while he sat on his ass talking about how good he was and how no one would hire him because they were afraid of losing their job to him.
The woman was 8 months pregnent and doing a 45 minute commute to work because this leach couldn't be bothered to work.
So? Another unfortunate tale, but a few people here are labeling this guy as a Pedophile before we have any information that points to that other than "they met when she was a freshman".
Professional misconduct is obvious, he was suspended after all. Was he in any wrong beyond that? We don't know. Stop jumping to scapegoat people.
Just the same type of scumbag as the teacher I saw mess up my friends life. The only real difference is that at least he waited until his wife turned 18 before going after her.
Grakmar wrote:My wife is a lawyer and I recently helped her study for the MPRE.)
You can continue a sexual relationship with a client if the relationship pre-dated him or her becoming a client. But, you cannot start a sexual relationship with a pre-existing client.
Individual states have their own ethical rules, the MPRE tests you on the model rules set forth by the ABA. So there may be some differences between ABA rules and certain state rules.
A teacher at my old school had a kid with an ex pupil, Another one married a girl in my year. They were both Geography teachers IIRC. Just in case you were trying to make a pattern.
Frazzled wrote:
What part of being a pedophile do you not get? Are you even remotely sane or versed at all in any law whatsoever?
I know Britain has a better legal system than the US, but even here thats a felony. In the UK they probably feed them to the haggis monster or something.
In the UK the age of consent is 16. As far as I can tell he wasn't attracted to her before she reached "maturity" so playing the peadophile card seems uncalled for.
He met her as a Freshman. Unless she was held back a few years she would have been substantially below that.
I met almost all of my teachers as a freshman.
I see nothing wrong with this in the least. He is not a pedophile and she is of age. Parents may start up a storm over this but I see nothing wrong with what he did. People leave their wives and children all the time and no one makes a fuss. But on Dakka I guess you get burned at the stake for leaving your wife for a woman you met at work.
Frazzled wrote:That of course doesn't count all the lives he just destroyed.
So the girl had no part in it then? Yeah, I don't quite believe that.
Relapse wrote: Just the same type of scumbag as the teacher I saw mess up my friends life. The only real difference is that at least he waited until his wife turned 18 before going after her.
Do you find generalizing groups of people based on personal experiences a fun activity?
The girl is 18, legally an adult. They were photographed together looking fairly happy. The mother has already admitted she kept her daughter wrapped in cotton wool. No evidence has yet been revealed to suggest anything abnormal other than their ages.
Really, I see no reason to vindicate this guy because people are afraid of thinking outwith the stereotype.
I see nothing wrong with this in the least. He is not a pedophile and she is of age. Parents may start up a storm over this but I see nothing wrong with what he did. People leave their wives and children all the time and no one makes a fuss. But on Dakka I guess you get burned at the stake for leaving your wife for a woman you met at work.
How many of them laid groundwork with you as a minor for sexual relations?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iproxtaco wrote:
Frazzled wrote:That of course doesn't count all the lives he just destroyed.
So the girl had no part in it then? Yeah, I don't quite believe that.
Relapse wrote:
Just the same type of scumbag as the teacher I saw mess up my friends life. The only real difference is that at least he waited until his wife turned 18 before going after her.
Do you find generalizing groups of people based on personal experiences a fun activity?
The girl is 18, legally an adult. They were photographed together looking fairly happy. The mother has already admitted she kept her daughter wrapped in cotton wool. No evidence has yet been revealed to suggest anything abnormal other than their ages.
Really, I see no reason to vindicate this guy because people are afraid of thinking outwith the stereotype.
I'm comparing two guys whose circumstances with being predators I have personal knowledge of with a third that has the same kind of pattern going.
Admittedly I'm an 18 year old with no children that I know of (there may be some out there though) but I agree that people are jumping to conclusions here, yes he is probably creepy and a bit of a loser but calling him a paedophile is a bit OTT.
And I'm pretty sure biccat is at least over 30 and has kids, YMMV.
I know right?
OT: I don't really see what the problem is, as far as we can tell they love each other and again as far as we can tell nothing happened before the age of consent, so he lost his job over it, not really a problem since basically any school anywhere has similar policies on relationships with students (conflict of interest and all that).
Probably the wierdest part is, if the couple were gay, apart from a couple of people having a brainfart, no-one would give a gak, why you like this internet?
biccat wrote:
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
Entering into a romantic relationship with a student who was recently a minor seems like probable cause for investigation. Its certainly sufficient cause to suspend him, as was done.
Also, it doesn't appear to be the school that is pursuing the investigation, but the police at the behest of the mother.
I don't see any problem with this from a legal perspective.
Morally speaking, the girl is probably just using the relationship as a temporary means of getting away from her overly-strict family with an older man who can has enough cash to make sure she's in stable accommodation and fed.
In case y'all haven't noticed, it's a recession, and that's what some women do if they don't fancy their prospects in life, and there is no shortage of really stupid old men to take the other side of that trade. With low grades in her classes, dating this guy might have seemed like a more appealing prospect than spending 5 years working in a burger joint or whatever. In the same situation as her (and being female) I might have made the same decision.
My aunt married a man 26 years older than her, and I'm fairly sure she's much happier now than when she was working 12 hour days for a touch above minimum wage in a highly stressful job. Just something worth keeping in mind before y'all go white-knighting around.
It's entirely possible that she'll dump him as soon as she's found her feet and she'll be the one left in a happy situation, whereas he'll be the one left trying to claw back his relationship with his family.
None of this post is "politically correct", but if you're going to reply to it please at least make the effort to point out what part of my reasoning is flawed as opposed to grabbing a torch and screaming "paedo sympathiser" at the top of your lungs while waving a flaming torch, or I'm just going to have to think of you as the guy in this video (British humour at its best).
Frazzled wrote:Yep. Having a daughter gives one a different perspective than you might have. Where's Melissia when you need her?
Actually, in legal terms, it makes you less reliable in this case as a jury member, as you'd have more emotional motivations when weighing up evidence than someone who was able to stand back from the situation.
No doubt I'll feel the same as you when I get 'round to having kids of my own, mind, I'm just saying that maybe standing back and weighing what we know and don't know is a better idea.
A) She is now legally adult and able to consent. There is the chance that they did nothing illegal, and from a legal standpoint there is the presumption of innocence. Given that the police are investigating, there may be evidence to the contrary.
B) Morally, there are multiple issues with his actions.
First is the power imbalance in which their relationship began. While pedophile may not really be the proper term, as he may have first become interested in her sexually after she physically matured, the maturity difference and the position of trust and mentorship (in loco parentis) he was in, engaging in any sort of romantic/sexual relationship is very problematic ethically. It casts into doubt her ability to give informed consent.
Second is the betrayal of his family. Yes, relationships and even marriages end every day. But abdicating your commitment and responsibility to your kids is never a good thing.
I'm comparing two guys whose circumstances with being predators I have personal knowledge of with a third that has the same kind of pattern going.
It's not a fair comparison. You're passing judgement, which is wrong.
I'm ok with that.
Doesn't stop it from being the wrong thing to do.
Debatable. Everyone judges everyone else. It's an integral human thing to do and i highly doubt it's possible to stop it. Though you can not act on your judgement... That's something else...
I'm comparing two guys whose circumstances with being predators I have personal knowledge of with a third that has the same kind of pattern going.
It's not a fair comparison. You're passing judgement, which is wrong.
I'm ok with that.
Doesn't stop it from being the wrong thing to do.
Debatable.
Most things are.
Everyone judges everyone else. It's an integral human thing to do and i highly doubt it's possible to stop it. Though you can not act on your judgement... That's something else...
Which still doesn't make it right. It's a widely held belief in my city that anyone wearing a tracksuit and a cap during the day, or comes from a specific area, is a criminal. Many are, it's just a characteristic of the the public's general perception of a criminal. Does that mean everyone wearing this outfit or who lives in this area should be tagged with a locator attached to their ankle?
Its a strange situation to be sure, but I'm not sure that there is any evidence that there was anything wrong going on.
It says they met when she was a freshman. As J-C said earlier that is when you tend to meet your teachers.
It also says that he left his family and hooked up with her when she was 18 and that Police are checking for anything illegal.
Sounds to me like the girl shacked up with a teacher after she turned 18, it creeped her mother out and boom the defacation hit the fan. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that he is a paedo or laid any "groundwork" although the police may find something.
To sum up: Might be something dodgy going on but. IMHO unless there is evidence of dodgy stuff,he is probably just a loser.
Frazzled wrote:Yep. Having a daughter gives one a different perspective than you might have. Where's Melissia when you need her?
Actually, in legal terms, it makes you less reliable in this case as a jury member, as you'd have more emotional motivations when weighing up evidence than someone who was able to stand back from the situation.
No doubt I'll feel the same as you when I get 'round to having kids of my own, mind, I'm just saying that maybe standing back and weighing what we know and don't know is a better idea.
I can't be on a jury so irrelevant (attorney). Thanks anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Johnny-Crass wrote:
Frazzled wrote:You forgot about the family he just abandoned.
Then he is doing it right!
That statement is disgusting. Get a grip kid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mannahnin wrote:A) She is now legally adult and able to consent. There is the chance that they did nothing illegal, and from a legal standpoint there is the presumption of innocence. Given that the police are investigating, there may be evidence to the contrary.
B) Morally, there are multiple issues with his actions.
First is the power imbalance in which their relationship began. While pedophile may not really be the proper term, as he may have first become interested in her sexually after she physically matured, the maturity difference and the position of trust and mentorship (in loco parentis) he was in, engaging in any sort of romantic/sexual relationship is very problematic ethically. It casts into doubt her ability to give informed consent.
Second is the betrayal of his family. Yes, relationships and even marriages end every day. But abdicating your commitment and responsibility to your kids is never a good thing.
Frazzled wrote:Yep. Having a daughter gives one a different perspective than you might have. Where's Melissia when you need her?
Actually, in legal terms, it makes you less reliable in this case as a jury member, as you'd have more emotional motivations when weighing up evidence than someone who was able to stand back from the situation.
No doubt I'll feel the same as you when I get 'round to having kids of my own, mind, I'm just saying that maybe standing back and weighing what we know and don't know is a better idea.
I can't be on a jury so irrelevant (attorney). Thanks anyway.
Oh. Well, to be fair, there's no way I could have known that.
Feel a bit dumb trying to tell you legal stuff, now. Eh.
Similarly, I'd proffer that anyone willing to abandon a family isn't a healthy element of the family in the first place.
Hate him all you want, but I've seen plenty of married couples drag out the divorce "for the children" without sparing the younglings any suffering, and in some cases causing them much more.
dogma wrote:
Hate him all you want, but I've seen plenty of married couples drag out the divorce "for the children" without sparing the younglings any suffering, and in some cases causing them much more.
Being a product of this I agree that the family is far better off without him. Not a pedo or a creep but not a real dad either
Albatross wrote:@ Mannahnin - It's not a crime though, is it? And it's not why people are so angry, let's face it. They're angry because PAEDO PAEDO PAEDO PAEDO!!!
I already addressed whether it's a crime.
As for why they're angry, it's because teachers sleeping with their high school-age students is normally considered an abuse of trust, power and authority, taking advantage of a vulnerable person who may be no better equipped to give mature consent than an actual child. While there are undoubtedly some students who are capable and mature enough, professional and personal ethics normally mean you don't get into that situation and risk being the guy who's taking advantage of the kid. As the teacher you may believe the kid is mature, but you're inherently in a conflict of interest situation. If you find them sexually appealing, your ability to judge their ability to give informed consent is less reliable. It's a slight step up from a person who cares for the developmentally disabled sleeping with their clients. And while it may well not be actual pedophilia, it's still a bit close for comfort.
As for why they're angry, it's because teachers sleeping with their high school-age students is normally considered an abuse of trust, power and authority, taking advantage of a vulnerable person who may be no better equipped to give mature consent than an actual child.
Hmm, I don't live all that far from Modesto. BRB kicking this guy's ass.
Seriously though, I can't believe people are defending him or her. She needs help. He needs to be put down. There is no way she turned 18 then all of a sudden this sprung up out of no where. It would take the testimony of a friend or colleague or a few phone call records to make the case, and it's just a matter of finding who will talk.
Even if they don't nail him, he just lost his job, he's going to need to make alimony and child support and she hasn't gone to college. This isn't going to work out. Given how public this is, I doubt anyone is going to hire the creepy guy who started banging his student.
I've not read the thread and don't have a serious comment, but it made me laugh that if they got married and decided to double barrel their names it would be the "Hooker-Powers"
Albatross wrote:@ Mannahnin - It's not a crime though, is it? And it's not why people are so angry, let's face it. They're angry because PAEDO PAEDO PAEDO PAEDO!!!
I already addressed whether it's a crime.
As for why they're angry, it's because teachers sleeping with their high school-age students is normally considered an abuse of trust, power and authority, taking advantage of a vulnerable person who may be no better equipped to give mature consent than an actual child. While there are undoubtedly some students who are capable and mature enough, professional and personal ethics normally mean you don't get into that situation and risk being the guy who's taking advantage of the kid. As the teacher you may believe the kid is mature, but you're inherently in a conflict of interest situation. If you find them sexually appealing, your ability to judge their ability to give informed consent is less reliable. It's a slight step up from a person who cares for the developmentally disabled sleeping with their clients. And while it may well not be actual pedophilia, it's still a bit close for comfort.
This is pretty close to the mark. In my case, I've seen the wreckage a teacher having an affair with a student leaves on families. The teacher was a control freak who ended up making the student's life a living hell. It's hard for me to drop that image with this guy.
As a teacher, you need to be a role model to the kids under your tutelage.
As a father, you need to be a role model to the kids under your roof.
He has utterly failed in both regards. I highly doubt this is your run of the mill relationship. Teenage girls aren't the wisest of individuals, and this is pretty common knowledge even when you're the same age. Fast forward to your 40's, you should have a good idea of how people of all ages work.
He's not in it for a complex and meaningful relationship, he's in it for sex and perhaps a feeling of dominance/superiority. There may be no hard evidence that he had sex with her while she was underage, but let's be realistic here, in all likelihood they did have sex, but neither of them will speak of it, and I'm sure finding out if sex took place is a bit harder than murder.
I hope that his life crumbles, she leaves him, and he dies utterly alone and penniless in the world, and only because of what he's doing to his kids. No child deserves this kind of experience with their father.
Albatross wrote:What a lovely thing to wish upon someone. Stay classy, Necroshea.
Let me guess, you'd rather me send a get well card to the guy who traumatized and abandoned his children and wife?
I truly pity you.
Nope, but he's objective enough to realise that you want the complete and utter destruction of a man who is not really evil (I mean, let's face it, he's a manipulative douche with a probable predatory streak at absolute worst) and therefore does not actually deserve such a hideous fate.
If he's done something illegal, lock him up. If he's done something unprofessional, fire him - ah, but that's been done.
However, anything beyond that is less justice than it is a call for blood. And no, in this case, those two things are not one and the same.
I concur. You can condemn the guy's actions without being too hateful and over the top about it. I think we do want to be careful about not confusing this with real pedophilia or child abuse.
Albatross wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:As for why they're angry, it's because teachers sleeping with their high school-age students is normally considered an abuse of trust, power and authority, taking advantage of a vulnerable person who may be no better equipped to give mature consent than an actual child.
We don't know that happened, do we?
Nope. But from our experience of high school girls and of older guys willing to date them, we can guess it with 90% or better certainty. Is there the chance that she really is highly mature for her age, and they did nothing improper at all? Sure. But I think we all know the odds are small.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:therefore does not actually deserve such a hideous fate.
You have just as much right to say he doesn't as I do to say he does.
I couldn't care less for legal ramifications. He's harming his kids. He's old enough to know exactly what he's doing and he still does it. So yes, I wish all sorts of terrible events to befall someone who does that. You can get offended at my barbaric nature all you want, and it doesn't bother me. If, or better yet, when, he runs his life into the ground more than he already has, the sun will shine that much brighter on my day, and my nights will be that much more restful, knowing that wicked people get their just rewards.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:therefore does not actually deserve such a hideous fate.
You have just as much right to say he doesn't as I do to say he does.
I couldn't care less for legal ramifications. He's harming his kids. He's old enough to know exactly what he's doing and he still does it. So yes, I wish all sorts of terrible events to befall someone who does that. You can get offended at my barbaric nature all you want, and it doesn't bother me. If, or better yet, when, he runs his life into the ground more than he already has, the sun will shine that much brighter on my day, and my nights will be that much more restful, knowing that wicked people get their just rewards.
How very biblical of you.
Of course, I'm also at liberty to call your opinion wrong, but you are of course right; that's just an opinion in itself.
Enjoy your frothing at the mouth now.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Of course, I'm also at liberty to call your opinion wrong, but you are of course right; that's just an opinion in itself.
Enjoy your frothing at the mouth now.
Sheesh, just as bad as calling people trolls when they don't agree with you.
Even still, I agree with your rather muddled way of saying that the conversation is silly and we can't reach an agreement so why not just end it.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Of course, I'm also at liberty to call your opinion wrong, but you are of course right; that's just an opinion in itself.
Enjoy your frothing at the mouth now.
Sheesh, just as bad as calling people trolls when they don't agree with you.
Even still, I agree with your rather muddled way of saying that the conversation is silly and we can't reach an agreement so why not just end it.
Indeed.
However, one other thing; though you probably already know this, the "Biblical" reference actually indicates wrathfulness, nor religiousness; the sort of punishment the God of the Old Testament used to hand out.
You know, humanity is using it's free will to do bad things, so I'd better wipe them out and start again with Noah and his lot. That kind of thing.
Albatross wrote:What a lovely thing to wish upon someone. Stay classy, Necroshea.
Let me guess, you'd rather me send a get well card to the guy who traumatized and abandoned his children and wife?
I truly pity you.
Traumatized wife and children? He left them now but trust me they will be able to function in the every day world. A parent leaving is not as ground breaking as everyone thinks it is. Peace and a single parent are better than constant bickering and bitterness with two parents.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:However, one other thing; though you probably already know this, the "Biblical" reference actually indicates wrathfulness, nor religiousness; the sort of punishment the God of the Old Testament used to hand out.
Learn something new every day. I've heard someone use the term a long time ago, but not recently enough nor has it been used enough to warrant me understanding the meaning. Appreciate the education.
The key point, from the standpoint of a current teacher and 28 year old father of 1 (although not a daughter), is that she was still in his classes when he moved in with her. "Powers was in Hooker's virtual business class and an associated club until his suspension."
Whether she was legal age or not, he was taking advantage of his position and crossing a major boundary. At the least, his teaching license should be revoked- and for those of you that don't think this is creepy- the article.also says his daughter was a junior at the same school. This guy is literally going out with someone young enough to be his daughter.
Legal it may be. In fact, it probably is. Morally and ethically.... it is totally reprehensible.
Frazzled wrote:I can't be on a jury so irrelevant (attorney). Thanks anyway.
I once had a partner at a firm get empaneled on a jury. She wasn't especially happy about that.
Thats a surprise. Here, its pretty much no way Jose. The jury lawyer might know more than the lawyers arguing the trial.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necroshea wrote:I hope the hammer drops hard on the guy.
As a teacher, you need to be a role model to the kids under your tutelage.
As a father, you need to be a role model to the kids under your roof.
He has utterly failed in both regards. I highly doubt this is your run of the mill relationship. Teenage girls aren't the wisest of individuals, and this is pretty common knowledge even when you're the same age. Fast forward to your 40's, you should have a good idea of how people of all ages work.
He's not in it for a complex and meaningful relationship, he's in it for sex and perhaps a feeling of dominance/superiority. There may be no hard evidence that he had sex with her while she was underage, but let's be realistic here, in all likelihood they did have sex, but neither of them will speak of it, and I'm sure finding out if sex took place is a bit harder than murder.
I hope that his life crumbles, she leaves him, and he dies utterly alone and penniless in the world, and only because of what he's doing to his kids. No child deserves this kind of experience with their father.
I don't see why the school is going after the guy. There isn't any evidence that he did anything inappropriate except for the fact that he moved in with her.
Seems like a cut & dry case of discrimination.
I know a woman who hooked up with her teacher in high school. He stalked her while she was underage and initiated a sexual relationship that went on for a couple of years until she dropped out of school to marry him. He was a serious control freak that used their kids as a weapon against her, along with threats and mistreatment.
She ended up leaving him after he got another girlfriend and she's just now getting her life back together after years under this jackasses thumb.
I truly despise predators like this.
I beat my significant other furiously all the time.
But then again... my significant other is my penis.
Mannahnin wrote:
As for why they're angry, it's because teachers sleeping with their high school-age students is normally considered an abuse of trust, power and authority, taking advantage of a vulnerable person who may be no better equipped to give mature consent than an actual child. While there are undoubtedly some students who are capable and mature enough, professional and personal ethics normally mean you don't get into that situation and risk being the guy who's taking advantage of the kid. As the teacher you may believe the kid is mature, but you're inherently in a conflict of interest situation. If you find them sexually appealing, your ability to judge their ability to give informed consent is less reliable. It's a slight step up from a person who cares for the developmentally disabled sleeping with their clients. And while it may well not be actual pedophilia, it's still a bit close for comfort.
Its worth noting that there is some variance.
I doubt people would be nearly as upset if 22 year old student teacher started a relationship with a current, or former, 18 year old student. Even less so if the older party were a female, assuming a heterosexual relationship.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mannahnin wrote:
Nope. But from our experience of high school girls and of older guys willing to date them, we can guess it with 90% or better certainty. Is there the chance that she really is highly mature for her age, and they did nothing improper at all? Sure. But I think we all know the odds are small.
Particularly considering Enochs high school is ~2300 in size, and the two apparently knew each other since she was a Freshman. This speaks to the idea that he made a conscious effort to be around her.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:therefore does not actually deserve such a hideous fate.
You have just as much right to say he doesn't as I do to say he does.
I couldn't care less for legal ramifications. He's harming his kids. He's old enough to know exactly what he's doing and he still does it. So yes, I wish all sorts of terrible events to befall someone who does that. You can get offended at my barbaric nature all you want, and it doesn't bother me. If, or better yet, when, he runs his life into the ground more than he already has, the sun will shine that much brighter on my day, and my nights will be that much more restful, knowing that wicked people get their just rewards.
Your opinions are wicked to me. In fact you're actually worse than the guy in question because you actively wish harm to come to another human being, whereas he just did something foolish, probably without considering the consequences to his family.
I think, perhaps, that I am the one who should pity you. It must feel awful to be so bitter. I can't imagine what that must be like.
Mannahnin wrote:
As for why they're angry, it's because teachers sleeping with their high school-age students is normally considered an abuse of trust, power and authority, taking advantage of a vulnerable person who may be no better equipped to give mature consent than an actual child. While there are undoubtedly some students who are capable and mature enough, professional and personal ethics normally mean you don't get into that situation and risk being the guy who's taking advantage of the kid. As the teacher you may believe the kid is mature, but you're inherently in a conflict of interest situation. If you find them sexually appealing, your ability to judge their ability to give informed consent is less reliable. It's a slight step up from a person who cares for the developmentally disabled sleeping with their clients. And while it may well not be actual pedophilia, it's still a bit close for comfort.
Its worth noting that there is some variance.
I doubt people would be nearly as upset if 22 year old student teacher started a relationship with a current, or former, 18 year old student. Even less so if the older party were a female, assuming a heterosexual relationship.
Maybe not. Beyond the immature jests and back-slapping from 'matey' mates and the like, I think it's entirely possible that the 22 year old female teacher would be forced to resign as this guy has. How could the school condemn one instance and then condone another?
The public reaction would almost certainly never reach the levels of a witch hunt though.
Yea the guy is a pretty big jerk off, and what he did would definitely make me not like him in the least. Saying that though, wishing that kind of a terrible thing on him, is just completely insane, if anything it makes you Necroshea worse then his actions make him. If he were a friend, I would tell him to feth off, if I worked with the guy, Id be furious to know I knew him, but I still wouldnt wish that kind of harm to him. Would I want the girl to come to her senses and leave him alone? Yes, yes I would, but thats it man. Seriously, you need to take a step back and relook your life over, if this kind of thing gets you so fething angered. Because really man, the world is full of much much worse then a guy that gets his jollies off on an 18 y/o LEGAL aged girl.
KingCracker wrote:Yea the guy is a pretty big jerk off, and what he did would definitely make me not like him in the least. Saying that though, wishing that kind of a terrible thing on him, is just completely insane, if anything it makes you Necroshea worse then his actions make him. If he were a friend, I would tell him to feth off, if I worked with the guy, Id be furious to know I knew him, but I still wouldnt wish that kind of harm to him. Would I want the girl to come to her senses and leave him alone? Yes, yes I would, but thats it man. Seriously, you need to take a step back and relook your life over, if this kind of thing gets you so fething angered. Because really man, the world is full of much much worse then a guy that gets his jollies off on an 18 y/o LEGAL aged girl.
I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Necroshea seems more upset at the father ditching his wife and kids, which is understandable, not just the fact that he initiated an relationship with a young student of his.
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Why? He ruined multiple lives. Its natural than we wish him less than high health.
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Why? He ruined multiple lives. Its natural than we wish him less than high health.
It's perceived he ruined lives. If the parents love their daughter, they would let her be happy with the man she chose.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nomsheep wrote:I wish him a long and happy life. so long as it's nowhere near me.
I think this is the point I'm going for. Thanks, Nomsheep!
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Why? He ruined multiple lives. Its natural than we wish him less than high health.
It's perceived he ruined lives. If the parents love their daughter, they would let her be happy with the man she chose.
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
As to the girl, she's messed up. Her father died and she has issues. This will not help her in the longer term. At least she did not get pregnant and drop out of school. As long as she avoids that she can turn this around, right after she runs over this loser with a pickup. Twice.
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Why? He ruined multiple lives. Its natural than we wish him less than high health.
It's perceived he ruined lives. If the parents love their daughter, they would let her be happy with the man she chose.
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
Thinking about it though, perhaps him leaving and the kids being raised with a stable single parent is better than the alternative of him sticking around. It's pretty clear he cuts a crappy father figure.
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Why? He ruined multiple lives. Its natural than we wish him less than high health.
It's perceived he ruined lives. If the parents love their daughter, they would let her be happy with the man she chose.
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
If he is willing to drop them that quick there must have somehting else going on at home anyway, if not then those kids are much much better off without him.
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Why? He ruined multiple lives. Its natural than we wish him less than high health.
It's perceived he ruined lives. If the parents love their daughter, they would let her be happy with the man she chose.
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
As to the girl, she's messed up. Her father died and she has issues. This will not help her in the longer term. At least she did not get pregnant and drop out of school. As long as she avoids that she can turn this around, right after she runs over this loser with a pickup. Twice.
As said, it would seem that they are better off without him. The whole thing is messed up, but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
Thinking about it though, perhaps him leaving and the kids being raised with a stable single parent is better than the alternative of him sticking around. It's pretty clear he cuts a crappy father figure.
He certainly does now. For the record, even if he did nothing, he does indeed look like the kind of guy you'd love to kick the s$&t out of just by looking at him.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
Frazzled wrote:He certainly does now. For the record, even if he did nothing, he does indeed look like the kind of guy you'd love to kick the s$&t out of just by looking at him.
I'll agree with that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chowderhead wrote:
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
Well, not serious life changing injury like paralysis.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
Well, not serious life changing injury like paralysis.
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
Thinking about it though, perhaps him leaving and the kids being raised with a stable single parent is better than the alternative of him sticking around. It's pretty clear he cuts a crappy father figure.
He certainly does now. For the record, even if he did nothing, he does indeed look like the kind of guy you'd love to kick the s$&t out of just by looking at him.
Which is worrying because he bears a startingly resemblance to a co-worker of mine. The similarity is unnerving.
Even moreso given that he writes what is essentially Harry Potter fanfic porn as a hobby.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
I was thinking more along the lines of horsewhipping out of town, while bystanders throw tomatoes and other food bits at him. It would be better if I did than if She Who Must Be Obeyed did. She'd probably just use his eyeballs for juju bees...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hazardous Harry wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Hazardous Harry wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I was talking about the wife and kids he just abandoned.
Thinking about it though, perhaps him leaving and the kids being raised with a stable single parent is better than the alternative of him sticking around. It's pretty clear he cuts a crappy father figure.
He certainly does now. For the record, even if he did nothing, he does indeed look like the kind of guy you'd love to kick the s$&t out of just by looking at him.
Which is worrying because he bears a startingly resemblance to a co-worker of mine. The similarity is unnerving.
Even moreso given that he writes what is essentially Harry Potter fanfic porn as a hobby.
As a preventative a measure I'd just hit your coworker with a chair, just to be safe.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
I was thinking more along the lines of horsewhipping out of town, while bystanders throw tomatoes and other food bits at him. It would be better if I did than if She Who Must Be Obeyed did. She'd probably just use his eyeballs for juju bees...
Can we still break his kneecaps?
Or did I get the kneecappin' hammer out for nuthin'?
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
I was thinking more along the lines of horsewhipping out of town, while bystanders throw tomatoes and other food bits at him. It would be better if I did than if She Who Must Be Obeyed did. She'd probably just use his eyeballs for juju bees...
Can we still break his kneecaps?
Or did I get the kneecappin' hammer out for nuthin'?
Much like a Katana, once the kneecappin' hammer has been unholstered, it must be used. Who I am to deprive you of that wholesome entertainment.
Frazzled wrote:Much like a Katana, once the kneecappin' hammer has been unholstered, it must be used. Who I am to deprive you of that wholesome entertainment.
Frazzled wrote:Much like a Katana, once the kneecappin' hammer has been unholstered, it must be used. Who I am to deprive you of that wholesome entertainment.
Frazzled wrote:Much like a Katana, once the kneecappin' hammer has been unholstered, it must be used. Who I am to deprive you of that wholesome entertainment.
An dangerously unstable man with access to guns?
What?
I'm not sure, I was thinking of something when I posted that, but its gone now! I'll try and keep the crazy in now.
Hazardous Harry wrote:
Maybe not. Beyond the immature jests and back-slapping from 'matey' mates and the like, I think it's entirely possible that the 22 year old female teacher would be forced to resign as this guy has. How could the school condemn one instance and then condone another?
The public reaction would almost certainly never reach the levels of a witch hunt though.
I'm not claiming that the relationship would be condoned, I'm claiming that it would be swept under the rug, or at least would be more likely to be swept under the rug.
My biology freshman biology teacher started a relationship with a senior about 3 months before he graduated. She inevitably resigned, but there was no great scandal because she was only 22. They're now married, and she is a masseur.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
And I am pretty sure that neither of you are really aware of what that actually entails, and are just a pair of nerds engaging in macho posturing towards an 'accepted' hate figure.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
And I am pretty sure that neither of you are really aware of what that actually entails, and are just a pair of nerds engaging in macho posturing towards an 'accepted' hate figure.
It's called joking around. Neither of us want to hurt anyone.
And the fact that you are taking me or Frazz seriously is worrying.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
And I am pretty sure that neither of you are really aware of what that actually entails, and are just a pair of nerds engaging in macho posturing towards an 'accepted' hate figure.
You'd be surprised Brit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chowderhead wrote:
Albatross wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
And I am pretty sure that neither of you are really aware of what that actually entails, and are just a pair of nerds engaging in macho posturing towards an 'accepted' hate figure.
It's called joking around. Neither of us want to hurt anyone.
And the fact that you are taking me or Frazz seriously is worrying.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
And I am pretty sure that neither of you are really aware of what that actually entails, and are just a pair of nerds engaging in macho posturing towards an 'accepted' hate figure.
I highly doubt that you know what ths entails either. if you do then i'm worried for you.
Unless you are a troll then you're a nerd but if you aren't a nerd like us then you don't belong here.
dogma wrote:Particularly considering Enochs high school is ~2300 in size, and the two apparently knew each other since she was a Freshman. This speaks to the idea that he made a conscious effort to be around her.
Or on her part to be around him, for that matter. [/devil's advocate]
I joke, In all honesty, if all he did was be nice, and she fell in love (or, she seduced him), then yeah he's a duche for abandoning his familly like that but apart from that he didn't do anything that bad. But, if he decieved her, or held power over her or the other things, he's a ing face and he is low, If he raped her, in any sense of the word, he deserves to suffer, for what he has done, not over the top but the proper amount. (also, for all we know, his wife might have been going to leave him to go out with a 18 year old pool boy named pablo, but he beat her to it)
DukeBadham wrote:
If he raped her, in any sense of the word, he deserves to suffer, for what he has done, not over the top but the proper amount.
I'm not sure where this came from, there are no allegations of rape being made.
Still, can't say I don't agree, but I don't think it occurred.
There is a pretty strong implication of rape having taken place.
It certainly hasn't been proven, and "benefit of the doubt" and "innocent until proven guilty" and all that, means we shouldn't jump to conclusions too far out there. But, the idea that rape took place is heavily implied by the facts.
I see nothing but good for both sides. If the guy left his family so quickly and easily, that to me, means he hated his life at that time. Hes out of the picture, and can only go up as far as Im concerned. As to his fmaily, if he hated it that much, theres no way he could of smiled and lied about it the whole time, I bet he was a right feth to live with, and Im pretty sure his now ex wife, was pretty miserable living with him. Now hes out of the picture, and has to pay child support for his kids. So wife is happier, he is happier, and child support is going to help mom with kids and happiness.
Seriously, why the knee bashing? Im usually all for violence and hulk smashing sure, but this just doesnt really ring like a knee bash worthy investment
Ma55ter_fett wrote:Strangely enough it seems as though a few people on here are hoping there was statutory rape, for no other reason than they want him thrown into jail.
I don't know why you would wish the worst on the girl just so you can justify your violent thoughts (directed towards the guy) to yourselves.
Here’s a thought, how about you pray that everything was above board and no laws were broken and he didn’t violate her.
Because the alternative is quite terrible.
Don’t go saying that I’m being soft on him, or I’m on his side, because I’m not.
If he broke the law (raped her), then lock him up.
If he didn’t then thank god
Bingo. This is what we mean. Ma55ter_fett has summed it up perfectly.
Castiel wrote:I think what KC is saying is there are worse things out there to get this angry about. Sure its odd, but it is legal. Wishing the man a lifetime of misery because of it is a bit of an over reaction. Also, how do we know she didn't pursue him? It doesn't say who initiated the relationship.
Necroshea seems more upset at the father ditching his wife and kids, which is understandable, not just the fact that he initiated an relationship with a young student of his.
There you go. As I've already stated, I don't care about legal ramifications. Teenage girls can and will be stupid, and so can 40 year old men. I don't care about that in the slightest. What I care about is the child and wife that he created a negative impact on.
Some people in this thread would slap a thieves hand and tell him no, I'd rather just break said hands and not have to worry about it anymore. It makes things so much simpler that way.
Necroshea wrote:There you go. As I've already stated, I don't care about legal ramifications. Teenage girls can and will be stupid, and so can 40 year old men. I don't care about that in the slightest. What I care about is the child and wife that he created a negative impact on.
Sad to say it, but he isn't the first, and he won't be the last. These things happen in life, not often thankfully, but they do. I'm not particularly soft-spined, I just don't think that wishing for the ruination of a man's life is a reasonable response to the situation.
Some people in this thread would slap a thieves hand and tell him no, I'd rather just break said hands and not have to worry about it anymore. It makes things so much simpler that way.
Too many soft spines in this thread.
I disagree with this strongly. What if the thief was stealing solely for sustenance? And the punishment of breaking their hands, and the unlikelyhood of them being properly reset, if they even were capable of holding any kind of job down before they certainly aren't now. You've essentially ensured that the offender will never be able to make any kind of income, through legitimate or illegitimate means, making them a lifetime burden of the state.
I have no qualms with rapists and murderers being locked up for life or even facing the death sentence, but the focus on petty theft and other minor crimes should be rehabilitation, not punishment.
I have no qualms with rapists and murderers being locked up for life or even facing the death sentence, but the focus on petty theft and other minor crimes should be rehabilitation, not punishment.
Agreed. Unless the thief is stealing solely for greed or out of malice. In that case, lock him up.
I have no qualms with rapists and murderers being locked up for life or even facing the death sentence, but the focus on petty theft and other minor crimes should be rehabilitation, not punishment.
Agreed. Unless the thief is stealing solely for greed or out of malice. In that case, lock him up.
Even then I disagree. I used to steal my brother's video games or books and keep them for myself all the time (as he did, I think this is normal amongst siblings). I hardly think I need to be locked up.
Necroshea wrote:There you go. As I've already stated, I don't care about legal ramifications. Teenage girls can and will be stupid, and so can 40 year old men. I don't care about that in the slightest. What I care about is the child and wife that he created a negative impact on.
Sad to say it, but he isn't the first, and he won't be the last. These things happen in life, not often thankfully, but they do. I'm not particularly soft-spined, I just don't think that wishing for the ruination of a man's life is a reasonable response to the situation.
If he's anything like the teacher that pursued my friend when she was underaged in high school, then married her when she turned 18, I think it's a reasonable wish. They both denied anything going on before she was 18, also, although there was plenty going on.
The guy was a total control freak, and once she had their first kid, he upped the donkey-cave factor. He continually used the children as weapons against her and threatened to kill her family if she left him.
In the end, he got a new girlfriend and told her that the girlfriend was moving in with them. She took that as her cue to leave, and he finally let her, but with more threats, he made her give up the kids.
It was only after some years she got to see the kids again, and they are some jacked up works of art thanks to the situations he makes happen around them.
Yeah, if he's anything like this guy, and the pattern I'm seeing would indicate this, I'd love to see his life wrecked to the degree he smartens up and tries to make right with everyone he's messed up.
Casteil wrote:but I wouldn't wish death, injury or lifelong misery on the man for it. I don't agree with the situation, but I'm not going to wish for the destruction of his entire life.
I agree with the death part, but I think me and Frazzled agree that we'd like to break his kneecaps with a hammer.
And I am pretty sure that neither of you are really aware of what that actually entails, and are just a pair of nerds engaging in macho posturing towards an 'accepted' hate figure.
It's called joking around. Neither of us want to hurt anyone.
And the fact that you are taking me or Frazz seriously is worrying.
I never take either of you seriously, so there's no need to worry about that.
I just think it's distasteful to joke about torturing another human being - you wouldn't joke about raping another person and expect it to pass without comment, would you? What's the difference?
Frazzled wrote:You'd be surprised Brit.
What has my nationality got to do with anything?
nomsheep wrote:I highly doubt that you know what ths entails either. if you do then i'm worried for you.
This might sound unlikely, but believe it or not, I've never smashed another person's knees with a hammer. There I said it. Feels good to get it off my chest.
Of course I don't fething know what it entails! I'm not engaing in the nerdy power-fantasy circlejerk though, am I?
Unless you are a troll then you're a nerd but if you aren't a nerd like us then you don't belong here.
Jog on, son. You don't get to tell me where I should and shouldn't be.
Incidentally, Ma55ter_Fett has this thread absolutely nailed.
Don't we have a rule in most of our western jurisdictions that says "innocent until proven guilty"? All of you guys hating on this man are not the tiniest bit better than a good old-fashioned angry mob with torches and pitchforks, and all your legal and ethical argumentation cannot hide that fact.
So if the guy is found to have committed statutory rape, he is going to go to jail for that. No need to hate on him for that, in that case he will go to jail whether you hate him or not. So why do you people hate so much?
You see, people only ever hate the things they fear. Parents who fear that something like this happens to their children I can understand. Anybode else hating on this guy should probably check if he wasn't sexually harassed as a child himself, because that could be a reason for fearing the guy, and it isn't unusual for victims to suppress the memory but keep the fear.
Me? I fear angry mobs of unenlightened, frenzied-into-stupidity persons, because I do not want to be killed or maimed for being a free thinker and for now and then doing things that do not fit into the very narrow minds of bible belt inhabitants (sorry, if you live there and you aren't a christian fundamentalist, I did not mean you). Therefore, I hate people doing exactly what you do here: hating someone and prosecuting him without a fair trial.
this is why I hate threads like this, they always degrade into internet arguments and people trying to act tough online.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skylifter wrote:
So if the guy is found to have committed statutory rape, he is going to go to jail for that. No need to hate on him for that, in that case he will go to jail whether you hate him or not. So why do you people hate so much?
because this gives many a chance to try to act tough online, since there's no logical reason to carry on about this man.
You see, people only ever hate the things they fear. Parents who fear that something like this happens to their children I can understand. Anybode else hating on this guy should probably check if he wasn't sexually harassed as a child himself, because that could be a reason for fearing the guy, and it isn't unusual for victims to suppress the memory but keep the fear.
it's easier to hate than understand, the flaw of society.
Me? I fear angry mobs of unenlightened, frenzied-into-stupidity persons, because I do not want to be killed or maimed for being a free thinker and for now and then doing things that do not fit into the very narrow minds of bible belt inhabitants (sorry, if you live there and you aren't a christian fundamentalist, I did not mean you). Therefore, I hate people doing exactly what you do here: hating someone and prosecuting him without a fair trial.
Skylifter wrote:Don't we have a rule in most of our western jurisdictions that says "innocent until proven guilty"? All of you guys hating on this man are not the tiniest bit better than a good old-fashioned angry mob with torches and pitchforks, and all your legal and ethical argumentation cannot hide that fact.
So if the guy is found to have committed statutory rape, he is going to go to jail for that. No need to hate on him for that, in that case he will go to jail whether you hate him or not. So why do you people hate so much?
You see, people only ever hate the things they fear. Parents who fear that something like this happens to their children I can understand. Anybode else hating on this guy should probably check if he wasn't sexually harassed as a child himself, because that could be a reason for fearing the guy, and it isn't unusual for victims to suppress the memory but keep the fear.
Me? I fear angry mobs of unenlightened, frenzied-into-stupidity persons, because I do not want to be killed or maimed for being a free thinker and for now and then doing things that do not fit into the very narrow minds of bible belt inhabitants (sorry, if you live there and you aren't a christian fundamentalist, I did not mean you). Therefore, I hate people doing exactly what you do here: hating someone and prosecuting him without a fair trial.
He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
When there's proof of that, then we'll let you disembowel him. Otherwise, the right to fair trial stays.
Frazzled wrote:He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
Oh come now, you know they sat around discussing politics and dangers of consuming aspartame.
Its kind of like someone hiring a private investigator to track his wife because he suspect adultery. PI follows her back to a hotel and watches her meet up with another man and rent a room, then after entering he sees them through an open curtain embrace and kiss. After telling the husband this he asks what happens next, and the PI responds that they closed the curtain. Husband responds with "well dang, I guess we'll never know what happened".
He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
When there's proof of that, then we'll let you disembowel him. Otherwise, the right to fair trial stays.
No.
What trial. We're not stoning him (unfortunately) so your required standards of evidence is moot.
Query though, what exactly are a 40 something year old guy and a 16-17 year old going to text 6,000 times about exactly? Unless he's mentally deficient they are totally off the charts in noncompatibility. She just learned to drive for sake.
Frazzled wrote:He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
Frazzled wrote:He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
I love it when things like that happen. Your post is meant for someone else, and it totally works on the wrong one. Rare thing just happened here, rare thing
Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
Skylifter wrote:Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
As the Nazis said to Schindler "I guess we shall have to risk regret." In the court of public opinion I am not burdened by your country's laws.
Uh gak, which rule was that again? I think it was one of the first internet rules ever. My country's history has nothing to do with the matter at hand: you want to prosecute someone without trial because you think you know he was guilty, which is something that is forbidden by the laws of both our countries, and for a reason.
Thus, while the guy in question is probably a rapist, but must be considered innocent until proven guilty, you definitely are at odds with human rights. And therefore, I detest you.
Frazzled wrote:He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
Wait... a teacher and a student (who may well have been friends with his daughter at one point) have nothing to talk about other than sex? Not school, not the daughter, just sex?
Really? You mean all my high school teachers ever talked to me about was sex? When did this happen, I certainly don't remember it!
EDIT: Ah, I missed the part about the thousands of text messages.
Well, theoretically it is possible that they are telling the truth. Maybe they did wait until she was 18. Until someone can prove otherwise, all we can say is that he's a douche for leaving his wife and kids, and a jerk for taking up with a student.
Frazzled wrote:He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
No, there is no definitive proof that he had sex with her before she was legal, don't jump the gun Frazzled.
What do you mean there is no reason for him to talk to underage chick? Are you saying because he is a heterosexual teacher and she is a heterosexual student the only thing they are aloud to talk about is sex? What a load of Frazzled, what is she needed help on some, you know, school work? "Oh sorry, you gotta go see a female teacher because I can only talk to you about sex". We need to get real? That's certainly the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw it.
Frazzled wrote:He banged an underage chick. there's no other reason for him to talk to underage chick. Lets get ing real here. Its not like they could hold a conversation about anything but ing.
No, there is no definitive proof that he had sex with her before she was legal, don't jump the gun Frazzled.
What do you mean there is no reason for him to talk to underage chick? Are you saying because he is a heterosexual teacher and she is a heterosexual student the only thing they are aloud to talk about is sex? What a load of Frazzled, what is she needed help on some, you know, school work? "Oh sorry, you gotta go see a female teacher because I can only talk to you about sex". We need to get real? That's certainly the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw it.
You missed the thousands of text messages, many before she was 18. Seriously, reading some teenager babble for thousands of texts would make me shove a rusty spoon in my eyes, or more hopeful, unlock the Seventh seal and finally release Dachshundskrieg upon the world.
40 year old men don't have thousands of texts with an underage girl unless something is on their mind...
Frazzled wrote:40 year old men don't have thousands of texts with an underage girl unless something is on their mind...
He might have had something on his mind, but that doesn't mean they acted on it. It seems more than likely that they did, but until it is proven one way or the other the guy is just a douche.
I find it amazing that so many people just wave their hand at how he ditched his family and say they're better off. He took up commitments. He decided to get married and have children, and now he's foregoing those in favor of this "fling."
Surtur wrote:I find it amazing that so many people just wave their hand at how he ditched his family and say they're better off. He took up commitments. He decided to get married and have children, and now he's foregoing those in favor of this "fling."
Exactly. He's the antiFrazzled. He probably likes cats and squirrels and believes in the inherent goodness oif humanity.
Skylifter wrote:Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
As the Nazis said to Schindler "I guess we shall have to risk regret." In the court of public opinion I am not burdened by your country's laws.
Wait, did you really just bring up Nazi's in an attempt to undermine a German poster's arguement? You say a lot of crazy stuff Frazz, but this is simply offensive.
Skylifter wrote:Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
As the Nazis said to Schindler "I guess we shall have to risk regret." In the court of public opinion I am not burdened by your country's laws.
Wait, did you really just bring up Nazi's in an attempt to undermine a German poster's arguement? You say a lot of crazy stuff Frazz, but this is simply offensive.
I don't think that was his intention with that comment, somehow.
Honestly it's hard to interpret what Frazzled is actually saying with most of his comments. I'll just wait for him to explain what exactly he was on about.
I think what he was trying to say was that'd he'd be all for shooting the guy for rape without a trial because he'd rather see him dead but innocent than have him alive if he did commit the crime.
Skylifter wrote:Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
As the Nazis said to Schindler "I guess we shall have to risk regret." In the court of public opinion I am not burdened by your country's laws.
Wait, did you really just bring up Nazi's in an attempt to undermine a German poster's arguement? You say a lot of crazy stuff Frazz, but this is simply offensive.
Nope, just referencing one of my favorite quotes (its actually opposite, I would be calling myself the Nazi as they were the ones who used the line). The bad German accent is what makes the line so choice. It actually sounds like "Ve vill hav to wisk, regetttt."
Skylifter wrote:Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
As the Nazis said to Schindler "I guess we shall have to risk regret." In the court of public opinion I am not burdened by your country's laws.
Wait, did you really just bring up Nazi's in an attempt to undermine a German poster's arguement? You say a lot of crazy stuff Frazz, but this is simply offensive.
I don't think that was his intention with that comment, somehow.
Really? That would seem perefectly in-character, to be honest. The guy's a blatant chauvinist.
Skylifter wrote:Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
As the Nazis said to Schindler "I guess we shall have to risk regret." In the court of public opinion I am not burdened by your country's laws.
Wait, did you really just bring up Nazi's in an attempt to undermine a German poster's arguement? You say a lot of crazy stuff Frazz, but this is simply offensive.
I don't think that was his intention with that comment, somehow.
Nope, on the other hand the poster did accuse me of criminal activity.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hazardous Harry wrote:Honestly it's hard to interpret what Frazzled is actually saying with most of his comments. I'll just wait for him to explain what exactly he was on about.
You're assuming Frazzled knows what he's actually on about....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albatross wrote:
Castiel wrote:
Hazardous Harry wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Skylifter wrote:Seriously Frazzled, you are exactly the kind of person that I am was talking about. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I am saying that you cannot know, and I am using the word 'know' for a reason. You suspect it, I suspect it, but as long as we do not know, even telling us about his crime as if it were a fact is, at least in my country, actually a crime (defamation). It isn't usually prosecuted much, since everybody does it all the fething time, but it is a crime.
As the Nazis said to Schindler "I guess we shall have to risk regret." In the court of public opinion I am not burdened by your country's laws.
Wait, did you really just bring up Nazi's in an attempt to undermine a German poster's arguement? You say a lot of crazy stuff Frazz, but this is simply offensive.
I don't think that was his intention with that comment, somehow.
Really? That would seem perefectly in-character, to be honest. The guy's a blatant chauvinist.
Wienerdogist actually. I'm very supportive of women's rights. After all I am trianing Genghis Connie to rule the world with a smile and an iron fist. You will love her and despair!
Frazzled wrote:
Nope, just referencing one of my favorite quotes (its actually opposite, I would be calling myself the Nazi as they were the ones who used the line). The bad German accent is what makes the line so choice. It actually sounds like "Ve vill hav to wisk, regetttt."
Frazzled wrote:
You're assuming Frazzled knows what he's actually on about....
Frazzled wrote:Wienerdogist actually. I'm very supportive of women's rights. After all I am trianing Genghis Connie to rule the world with a smile and an iron fist. You will love her and despair!
Frazzled wrote:
Its like the crazies took over the asylum, and I am their king Hail ME!
Castiel wrote:I think what he was trying to say was that'd he'd be all for shooting the guy for rape without a trial because he'd rather see him dead but innocent than have him alive if he did commit the crime.
I'll translate for you.
He's not going to shoot anyone. In the spirit of hyperbole, he is expressing that the teacher is a scumbag, has hurt people, taken advantage of a young girl, and is the kind of person who deserves to be hurt. As Fraz is a Texan, his hyperbole often defaults to mentions of gunplay. That or weiner dogs, but I don't think that's a standard Texas thing.
We are not subject to the rules of "innocent until proven guilty", because we're not a court, and don't have the power to actually imprison or punish the guy. That right is there to protect people from oppressive misuse of real punitive authority. Other judgements, and even other courts, aren't subject to the same strict standards. For example, in a civil case, the judgment is based on a preponderence of the evidence, rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt", as in criminal law.
In the informal court of public opinion, the standards are even less. Each of us can and does judge other people and situations without exhaustive evidence. Many of us take a principled position about not judging other people, or at least not harshly, but if you see a person abuse his wife or smack his kid in the face, you probably don't hesitate to judge him a bad guy.
In the case of this guy, the overwhelming evidence is that he's not a good person. If you know any high school girls, and any 40 year old guys, you know just how little they have in common and how little grounds they are likely to have for a relationship; certainly not one of peers and equals. You can say they may have done nothing wrong, and maybe the girl is really precocious, mature and intelligent. But we all know the odds are small.
Castiel wrote:I think what he was trying to say was that'd he'd be all for shooting the guy for rape without a trial because he'd rather see him dead but innocent than have him alive if he did commit the crime.
I'll translate for you.
He's not going to shoot anyone. In the spirit of hyperbole, he is expressing that the teacher is a scumbag, has hurt people, taken advantage of a young girl, and is the kind of person who deserves to be hurt. As Fraz is a Texan, his hyperbole often defaults to mentions of gunplay. That or weiner dogs, but I don't think that's a standard Texas thing.
We are not subject to the rules of "innocent until proven guilty", because we're not a court, and don't have the power to actually imprison or punish the guy. That right is there to protect people from oppressive misuse of real punitive authority. Other judgements, and even other courts, aren't subject to the same strict standards. For example, in a civil case, the judgment is based on a preponderence of the evidence, rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt", as in criminal law.
In the informal court of public opinion, the standards are even less. Each of us can and does judge other people and situations without exhaustive evidence. Many of us take a principled position about not judging other people, or at least not harshly, but if you see a person abuse his wife or smack his kid in the face, you probably don't hesitate to judge him a bad guy.
In the case of this guy, the overwhelming evidence is that he's not a good person. If you know any high school girls, and any 40 year old guys, you know just how little they have in common and how little grounds they are likely to have for a relationship; certainly not one of peers and equals. You can say they may have done nothing wrong, and maybe the girl is really precocious, mature and intelligent. But we all know the odds are small.
ing point.
I'm sure he weighs the same as a duck!
Seriously, reading some teenager babble for thousands of texts would make me shove a rusty spoon in my eyes, or more hopeful, unlock the Seventh seal and finally release Dachshundskrieg upon the world.
