I'm just doing my little bit here to help spread the word about KONY 2012, a campaign by Invisible Children Inc. to raise awareness about war criminal and world's number 1 most wanted Joseph Kony.
Here is the video explaining what the campaign is about, please take the time to watch it, they need all the help they can get.
So everyone please do whatever you can, even if it's just sharing the video like I am here; mass awareness is what they need most if Kony's going to be brought to justice.
I was also wondering if we would be interested in doing something as the Dakka community. Suggestions are obviously welcome, I know there was the 'great space marine project' before. If anyone has any serious ideas then please post them, let's do what we can to donate and help out. I would be happy to organise something and help out with any projects for this.
I was just looking through the off-topic forum to see if any other threads had been created.
This is an IMPORTANT ISSUE and people need to be made aware. It's sad that no one else has replied.
This post will put this thread at the top of the list, so hopefully it will help raise awareness. I'm already trying to raise awareness on both my own websites and also sites like Facebook. I will admit.. it isn't easy trying to explain it to a German kid whose language I can barely speak.
Possibly a scam. I can't really verify that. A charity organization that doesn't disclose its finances to the BBB is suspect. Aside from that, I thought it was fairly low of the guy to use his kid as a way to emotionally blackmail the audience.
On the surface, it does seem like a good cause. But if the site Huffy linked to is correct, it's definitely a scam, and possibly malevolent.
I can't really say. I can say that if they achieve their goal and things turn out better in Uganda and surrounding areas, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
Yeah, after much debating with the intellectual minority of youths my age, we've decided that there's nothing good about what this charity is or is trying to accomplish.
Death Gear wrote:I don't really care about the charity. It's the idea that really counts .
I do not doubt for a second that those involved in KONY 2012 have great intentions, nor do I doubt for a second that Joseph Kony is a very evil man. But despite this, I’m strongly opposed to the KONY 2012 campaign.
KONY 2012 is the product of a group called Invisible Children, a controversial activist group and not-for-profit. They’ve released 11 films, most with an accompanying bracelet colour (KONY 2012 is fittingly red), all of which focus on Joseph Kony. When we buy merch from them, when we link to their video, when we put up posters linking to their website, we support the organization. I don’t think that’s a good thing, and I’m not alone.
Invisible Children has been condemned time and time again. As a registered not-for-profit, its finances are public. Last year, the organization spent $8,676,614. Only 32% went to direct services (page 6), with much of the rest going to staff salaries, travel and transport, and film production. This is far from ideal for an issue which arguably needs action and aid, not awareness, and Charity Navigator rates their accountability 2/4 stars because they lack an external audit committee. But it goes way deeper than that.
The group is in favour of direct military intervention, and their money supports the Ugandan government’s army and various other military forces. Here’s a photo of the founders of Invisible Children posing with weapons and personnel of the Sudan People’s Liberation Army. Both the Ugandan army and Sudan People’s Liberation Army are riddled with accusations of rape and looting, but Invisible Children defends them, arguing that the Ugandan army is “better equipped than that of any of the other affected countries”, although Kony is no longer active in Uganda and hasn’t been since 2006 by their own admission. These books each refer to the rape and sexual assault that are perennial issues with the UPDF, the military group Invisible Children is defending.
Still, the bulk of Invisible Children’s spending isn’t on supporting African militias, but on awareness and filmmaking. Which can be great, except that Foreign Affairs has claimed that Invisible Children (among others) “manipulates facts for strategic purposes, exaggerating the scale of LRA abductions and murders and emphasizing the LRA’s use of innocent children as soldiers, and portraying Kony — a brutal man, to be sure — as uniquely awful, a Kurtz-like embodiment of evil.” He’s certainly evil, but exaggeration and manipulation to capture the public eye is unproductive, unprofessional and dishonest.
As Chris Blattman, a political scientist at Yale, writes on the topic of IC’s programming, “There’s also something inherently misleading, naive, maybe even dangerous, about the idea of rescuing children or saving of Africa. […] It hints uncomfortably of the White Man’s Burden. Worse, sometimes it does more than hint. The savior attitude is pervasive in advocacy, and it inevitably shapes programming. Usually misconceived programming.”
Still, Kony’s a bad guy, and he’s been around a while. Which is why the US has been involved in stopping him for years. U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM) has sent multiple missions to capture or kill Kony over the years. And they’ve failed time and time again, each provoking a ferocious response and increased retaliative slaughter. The issue with taking out a man who uses a child army is that his bodyguards are children. Any effort to capture or kill him will almost certainly result in many children’s deaths, an impact that needs to be minimized as much as possible. Each attempt brings more retaliation. And yet Invisible Children supports military intervention. Kony has been involved in peace talks in the past, which have fallen through. But Invisible Children is now focusing on military intervention.
Military intervention may or may not be the right idea, but people supporting KONY 2012 probably don’t realize they’re supporting the Ugandan military who are themselves raping and looting away. If people know this and still support Invisible Children because they feel it’s the best solution based on their knowledge and research, I have no issue with that. But I don’t think most people are in that position, and that’s a problem.
Is awareness good? Yes. But these problems are highly complex, not one-dimensional and, frankly, aren’t of the nature that can be solved by postering, film-making and changing your Facebook profile picture, as hard as that is to swallow. Giving your money and public support to Invisible Children so they can spend it on supporting ill-advised violent intervention and movie #12 isn’t helping. Do I have a better answer? No, I don’t, but that doesn’t mean that you should support KONY 2012 just because it’s something. Something isn’t always better than nothing. Sometimes it’s worse.
If you want to write to your Member of Parliament or your Senator or the President or the Prime Minister, by all means, go ahead. If you want to post about Joseph Kony’s crimes on Facebook, go ahead. But let’s keep it about Joseph Kony, not KONY 2012.
~ Grant Oyston
Grant Oyston is a sociology and political science student at Acadia University in Nova Scotia, Canada. You can help spread the word about this by linking to his blog at visiblechildren.tumblr.com anywhere you see posts about KONY 2012.
Death Gear don't. As was stated, they are trying to mislead you with persuasive rhetoric and are spending ALOT of money to make damn sure it works, and it really should the way that they play this all up
Yeah, Kony and the LRA are a serious problem, but Invisible Children is a very dodgy charity. Consuming 68% of donations in admin and film production (ie money spent to get more donations) is woeful.
So send a letter to your local representative, telling them you support action on the issue. Talk about it with friends, and raise awareness. Just don't give money to Invisible Children.
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Squidmanlolz wrote:Yeah, sounds like rainbows and unicorns, don't it?
Fighting a radical with radicalism has worked in the past right? No major problems?
Well, yeah, direct military action has worked in ending the reign of tyrants. Quite a few times. Hitler comes to mind.
Squidmanlolz wrote:Yeah, sounds like rainbows and unicorns, don't it?
Fighting a radical with radicalism has worked in the past right? No major problems?
Well, yeah, direct military action has worked in ending the reign of tyrants. Quite a few times. Hitler comes to mind.
During WWII, the US was directly provoked, there's a difference between that and something localized to Uganda and the immediate area. I don't see the need to intervene if the only ones in any danger at the moment are the locals. When they throw a coup and start annexing their neighbors, then we can start getting concerned. There are bigger concerns now anyway, especially the escalating tensions between Iran and Israel, but that's for a different thread.
Squidmanlolz wrote:During WWII, the US was directly provoked,
Not by Hitler.
there's a difference between that and something localized to Uganda and the immediate area. I don't see the need to intervene if the only ones in any danger at the moment are the locals. When they throw a coup and start annexing their neighbors, then we can start getting concerned. There are bigger concerns now anyway, especially the escalating tensions between Iran and Israel, but that's for a different thread.
So as long as locals are only abducting the children of locals and forcing them to kill locals, then who cares what the rest of the world can do? Well, if that's your opinion then that's your opinion.
Squidmanlolz wrote:
there's a difference between that and something localized to Uganda and the immediate area. I don't see the need to intervene if the only ones in any danger at the moment are the locals. When they throw a coup and start annexing their neighbors, then we can start getting concerned. There are bigger concerns now anyway, especially the escalating tensions between Iran and Israel, but that's for a different thread.
So as long as locals are only abducting the children of locals and forcing them to kill locals, then who cares what the rest of the world can do? Well, if that's your opinion then that's your opinion.
I'm a bit of a political isolationist, Americans seem to have developed a "do unto others..." ideology though. If a country progresses without endangering another country, we'd might as well wait it out and see what the revolutionaries become, as far as I'm concerned.
Squidmanlolz wrote:I'm a bit of a political isolationist, Americans seem to have developed a "do unto others..." ideology though. If a country progresses without endangering another country, we'd might as well wait it out and see what the revolutionaries become, as far as I'm concerned.
Which is a pretty reasonable approach. Compared to the Iraq mess, and the appearance of the same being developed in Iran, I think your approach is preferable to what we've got right now.
It's just that when someone is committing atrocities, like Kony and the LRA are, and solving that problem could be as simple as a few hundred soldiers in support and training roles, and limited air recon support, then I don't really see the value in isolationism.
Slarg232 wrote:Well, tried to warn all my friends on facebook, but I don't think they beleive me.
Anyway, my job is done.
I don't have a chance of being believed, and i'm not a big fan of being called a horrible human being by people who can be so inspired by a 30-minute video that was funded using a large chunk of their previous earnings.
So i'm just watching, laughing, and being annoyed that they're clogging my news feed.
Well I just watched it on a news special edition, completely ad free and they're about to show the critics and supporters views on the 7pm Project.
I have to say the idea itself is excellent, revolutionary and plausible. Whether the charity itself is corrupt will hinder the opinion of people and as they said "the support will disapear".
As to the use of his 4 year old, it may be controversial but hey it sent a message, even a 4 year old can be informed and make a difference.
Now the effectiveness of the campaign, it itself seems misinformed and the money is being put into the wrong place. Why train Uganda's army when Kony isn't there anymore?
Slarg232 wrote:Well, tried to warn all my friends on facebook, but I don't think they beleive me.
Anyway, my job is done.
I don't have a chance of being believed, and i'm not a big fan of being called a horrible human being by people who can be so inspired by a 30-minute video that was funded using a large chunk of their previous earnings.
So i'm just watching, laughing, and being annoyed that they're clogging my news feed.
I'm not sure why but I've just realised you remind me of Rorschach from Watchmen.
Anytime anything charity-related becomes too popular, it's likely a scam. Quite simply, spamming for other people will never help anyone and will only give some people room to feel self-righteous while the majority get to feel guilty or extremely annoyed.
Squidmanlolz wrote:During WWII, the US was directly provoked,
Not by Hitler.
Um, actually, yes by Hitler.
Germany declared War on the United States of America in response to their declaration of War on Japan, thus bringing US intervention in the European theatre of war as well as the Asian one.
FWIW, here's Takei's opinion. It was interesting to me anyway.
George Takei wrote:Many fans have written and commented about KONY 2012 and Invisible Children. I applaud the fact that fans are researching and thinking critically about the movements they are asked to support. I caution, however, that "research" should not be limited to articles on reddit or tumblr, or blogs that cite political science students in Canada.
I do not endorse any particular organization, but do support the idea of publicizing KONY's name far and wide. For those interested, here is IC's official response to critiques.
Slarg232 wrote:Well, tried to warn all my friends on facebook, but I don't think they beleive me.
Anyway, my job is done.
I don't have a chance of being believed, and i'm not a big fan of being called a horrible human being by people who can be so inspired by a 30-minute video that was funded using a large chunk of their previous earnings.
So i'm just watching, laughing, and being annoyed that they're clogging my news feed.
I'm not sure why but I've just realised you remind me of Rorschach from Watchmen.
Stormrider wrote:Let us PLEASE stop telling the world how to run their gak, thank you, that is all.
Yeah, who's to say they don't want to have a child abductor brainwashing their children into murdering people?
"Would someone think of the children?!"
Not my problem in the long run, what some two bit warlord with fractured support in Sub-Saharan Africa does is irrelevant to me. Sorry. Maybe if the folks over there cared enough, they'd do something about it without begging everyone else to clean up their "mess".
Stormrider wrote:
Maybe if the folks over there cared enough, they'd do something about it without begging everyone else to clean up their "mess".
Kony is a poor man's Jim Jones.
Ah, yes, the Superman IV argument; wars end when people 'care' about them enough.
Of course.
Because it's not like they do care and that's why a civil war is going on.
EDIT: Oh, it seems they've 'cared' enough to almost completely defeat the LRA militarily.
You know, maybe you should look things up before assuming laziness in the face of a threat on the part of the people there.
Stormrider wrote:....Maybe if the folks over there cared enough, they'd do something about it without begging everyone else to clean up their "mess". Kony is a poor man's Jim Jones.
Your racism and prejudice is appalling. Even if you did prefix your comments with 'sorry' your attitude shows that you're not one bit sorry and your lack of knowledge shows your ignorance.
This is a problem that has been going on for 25 years, western nations have been profitiing from selling guns that find their way to the rebel groups and buying cheap raw materials so we can make i-phones and feel good about ourselves.
The reason a lot of Africa is poor is corruption, but its also exploitation by western nations.
I don't think Uganda, CAR, Southern Sudan (yes, that's a new country) and Congo are begging us to clean up their "mess", but I do think that there are huge human rights abuses that are going unanswered.
Maybe if folks over here cared enough we wouldn't leave our neighbours in a mess...
Stormrider wrote:....Maybe if the folks over there cared enough, they'd do something about it without begging everyone else to clean up their "mess". Kony is a poor man's Jim Jones.
Your racism and prejudice is appalling. Even if you did prefix your comments with 'sorry' your attitude shows that you're not one bit sorry and your lack of knowledge shows your ignorance.
This is a problem that has been going on for 25 years, western nations have been profitiing from selling guns that find their way to the rebel groups and buying cheap raw materials so we can make i-phones and feel good about ourselves.
The reason a lot of Africa is poor is corruption, but its also exploitation by western nations.
I don't think Uganda, CAR, Southern Sudan (yes, that's a new country) and Congo are begging us to clean up their "mess", but I do think that there are huge human rights abuses that are going unanswered.
Maybe if folks over here cared enough we wouldn't leave our neighbours in a mess...
[edited twice to fix spelling]
Whats the benefit to us? What will helping them do for us? Is it just for the so-called 'feel good' feeling...or do we actually get a profit from it?
Otherwise, I don't see the reason why we should, especially in a time of economic turmoil.
Darkvoidof40k wrote:Perhaps to simply better humanity itself as a whole.
But that would require no less than some violence on our part, it's probably best to keep our hands clean until there is an imminent danger to us or our own prospects.
Personally,I feel the Ugandan government and military has the power to stop this man, they are trying and are making headway on their own. Why intervene if the side you support is on a path toward victory?
Obama has intervened. I suppose 25 years of letting one man rape pillage and brainwash his way across the countryside was too long a wait. The International Criminal Court has had Kony on their list for years. There must be a faster way towards victory than the one the Ugandan Government is slowly taking...
Private_Joker wrote:As to the use of his 4 year old, it may be controversial but hey it sent a message, even a 4 year old can be informed and make a difference.
The more I think about that part of the campaign, the more I like it. What it did more than anything is show people that this guy wasn't just chanting dreadlocked hippie that we all like assume campaigners are so we can dismiss, but he's a young Dad with a young son. That was enough to change how people looked at the video, and I think responsible for much of its success.
That's not to say I like anything else about the Kony2012 campaign, it's a simplistic look at an issue from a group that just screams fauxtivism.
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Um, actually, yes by Hitler.
Germany declared War on the United States of America in response to their declaration of War on Japan, thus bringing US intervention in the European theatre of war as well as the Asian one.
The US prioritised the defeat of Hitler over and above the defeat of the Japanese. Considering a declaration of war by Germany to be a greater offence than the attack on Pearl Harbour by the Japanese is ridiculous.
As such, it becomes completely obvious that the US prioritised other considerations than who attacked directly attacked them.
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Stormrider wrote: "Would someone think of the children?!"
Umm, that saying is used to mock arguments that place moral arguments over rational thinking, particularly when that particular moral argument isn't actually in danger.
On the other hand, when children are actually being abducted, then it's actually really quite sensible to think of the children.
I can't believe I actually had to type that sentence. I mean, I honest and truly just had to explain to someone that when children are abducted it is sensible to show concern for those children. That's a thing I really, seriously had to do.
Not my problem in the long run, what some two bit warlord with fractured support in Sub-Saharan Africa does is irrelevant to me. Sorry. Maybe if the folks over there cared enough, they'd do something about it without begging everyone else to clean up their "mess".
Yeah, that's totally what's going on. This guy is still out there because people just don't quite care enough about the abduction of children. You really nailed it. Well done, and congrats on showing such an incredible level of insight into the complexities of a complex issue.
Obviously everyone who's studied the issue was just too burdened with facts to see through it quite as clearly as you did.
Kony is a poor man's Jim Jones.
You really, really need to read up on this. That statement is just fething ridiculous.
I mean, feth. Just fething try reading instead of just popping onto the internet to be smug about your ignorance.
Amaya wrote:There's not a single government in a world that gives a damn about bettering humanity.
Yeah, that's why government never ever spend money & time working with undeveloped countries to improve their infrastructure and the lives of their people.
I'm getting really bored with this lazy cynicism people put on to sound worldly.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Um, actually, yes by Hitler.
Germany declared War on the United States of America in response to their declaration of War on Japan, thus bringing US intervention in the European theatre of war as well as the Asian one.
The US prioritised the defeat of Hitler over and above the defeat of the Japanese. Considering a declaration of war by Germany to be a greater offence than the attack on Pearl Harbour by the Japanese is ridiculous.
As such, it becomes completely obvious that the US prioritised other considerations than who attacked directly attacked them.
Oh, I didn't say it was a greater offense than Pearl Harbour; you're right, that really would be ridiculous.
However, it could be argued that, with Germany's declaration of War, the USA had a valid reason to enter the European theatre, along with the perfectly adequate reasons presented to them to respond to Japan.
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sebster wrote:
Kony is a poor man's Jim Jones.
You really, really need to read up on this. That statement is just ridiculous.
I mean, . Just try reading instead of just popping onto the internet to be smug about your ignorance.
Having just noticed that quote, I spent the last two minutes laughing. How are these two even comparable, when their crimes aren't a bit alike?
It's like saying something like "Ah, that Genghis Khan, pfff. He's just a poor man's Fred West."
Amaya wrote:There's not a single government in a world that gives a damn about bettering humanity.
Yeah, that's why government never ever spend money & time working with undeveloped countries to improve their infrastructure and the lives of their people.
I'm getting really bored with this lazy cynicism people put on to sound worldly.
Amaya wrote:There's not a single government in a world that gives a damn about bettering humanity.
Yeah, that's why government never ever spend money & time working with undeveloped countries to improve their infrastructure and the lives of their people.
I'm getting really bored with this lazy cynicism people put on to sound worldly.
Keep buying into the propaganda.
yes, funny how the only ones supporting him are teenagers who'd support anything. it's a scam, and there will always be people like kony.
if Abhisidh Vejjajeva did the same thing AGAIN in Thailand. he will face the same thing. he already had two killing sprees. massacre records in the consecutive years. the excuse is the 'security of Nation, Religion, and the Monarch' ....
check you ya hood. see if there's any black street gangsters supporting Kony. then call the cops to get rid of 'em or those outlaws will fund this tyrant with drug dealings.
Every government is self serving and nationalistic. Politicians care more about their personal power and country's prestige than they do about bettering humanity. The amount of aid given by any western government is a pittance done to convince bleeding hearts that the government actually cares.
If the UN and the nations within it actually gave a damn, there would be an exponentially greater effort to improve Africa.
I personally think that America is the best example of being self serving. Our military involvements over the past 100 years have nearly always been to further our own goals and not better humanity. We've done terrible things in the Far East, South America, and the Middle East and have done nothing whatsoever to improve the lot of humanity in Africa even though it is within our power to do so.
I know I am a radical, but I strongly believe that a form of benovelent Imperialism (which has never occurred in human history) is needed for a worldwide betterment of humanity and no nation possesses the willpower or moral fiber to commit to such an action because it would take at a minimum decades or possibly centuries to improve human existence on all continents. The strong will always seek to oppress the weak.
I tend to think the Taliban would tell you that's exactly what they were doing before the U.S. and its allies started messing with them.
The simplest part would be the physical aspect. Ensuring that everyone has access to food, shelter, and clothing. It is a sad reality that this is not the case for the entirety of the world's population.
Bettering humanity intellectually is much more difficult. Bettering humanity spiritually would probably be a foolish undertaking due to extreme cultural and religious biases. I think that better humanity morally is theoretically achievable, but not realistically possible.
It's simply a theory, highly implausible, and will probably never occur as humanity on a whole suffers greatly from a "us against them" mentality. Without an outside source to focus our aggression against we must either remove aggressive tendencies or accept the warlike world in which we have existed since the dawn of our species.
"History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."
—Jean-Luc Picard
I don't know whether to put this in the thread with Rush and his comments about the day at Georgetown or its own thread. I decided here although it may get a topic al itself soon.
so which of the superpowers in this world supporting Kony?
- US of A?
- E.U.
- China?
- Russia?
I don't group China and Russia together now because at some point they have dispuites too! in term of business. China and Russia may have common products and are actually competing each other rather than facilitate each.
got it! same as Zimbabwe.
make it another province directly ruled by Great Britain once again. the only solution I can think of.
and lets see how will rebellious Irish react to this?
Lone Cat wrote:got it! same as Zimbabwe.
make it another province directly ruled by Great Britain once again. the only solution I can think of.
and lets see how will rebellious Irish react to this?
they won't, since this is all just a way for a guy to make money, and the U.S. to get oil.
Automatically Appended Next Post: this is a user-made video, but I agree with what he says.
Lone Cat wrote:got it! same as Zimbabwe.
make it another province directly ruled by Great Britain once again. the only solution I can think of.
and lets see how will rebellious Irish react to this?
Firstly that isn't an option.
Secondly why would Ireland care?
You're aware that Northern Ireland isn't rebellious?
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Oh, I didn't say it was a greater offense than Pearl Harbour; you're right, that really would be ridiculous.
However, it could be argued that, with Germany's declaration of War, the USA had a valid reason to enter the European theatre, along with the perfectly adequate reasons presented to them to respond to Japan.
Sure thing, Hitler's declaration of war made it much easier for the US to pile into the European theatre first and foremost. It's just ultimately it was only a declaration of war, whereas there were bodies trapped in ships at the bottom of Pearl Harbour, so it's clear the US chose something other than revenge.
Having just noticed that quote, I spent the last two minutes laughing. How are these two even comparable, when their crimes aren't a bit alike?
It's like saying something like "Ah, that Genghis Khan, pfff. He's just a poor man's Fred West."
It's just bizarre, isn't it. It's like, "I want to be dismissive of this cause so I can sound worldly, but I don't actually know anything about it, so I'll just say this guy is nothing like this other guy I've heard of".
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Amaya wrote:Keep buying into the propaganda.
Thinking critically is not the same thing as thinking cynically. In fact, thinking cynically is generally an oxymoron, because taking a cynical view lets us off of the hard work of thinking critically about complex subjects, and removes any thought of responsibility for how we might aid the issue.
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Amaya wrote:Eh, that's not really my point.
Every government is self serving and nationalistic.
Because the populations they reflect are self serving and nationalistic. Except that while that's broadly true, it is also a lot more complicated than that. People really do have a desire to do good.
The amount of aid given by any western government is a pittance done to convince bleeding hearts that the government actually cares.
There could always be more money spent. But you would realise that your idea that aid organisations are just there to quiet the bleeding hearts is completely wrong if you spent any time at all working with one the NGOs. Well, one of the good ones, not Invisible Children.
If the UN and the nations within it actually gave a damn, there would be an exponentially greater effort to improve Africa.
I think you're ignoring the complexity of the issues causing many of the problems. We can't just decide to solve these problems, sign a cheque and fix everything.
I know I am a radical, but I strongly believe that a form of benovelent Imperialism (which has never occurred in human history) is needed for a worldwide betterment of humanity and no nation possesses the willpower or moral fiber to commit to such an action because it would take at a minimum decades or possibly centuries to improve human existence on all continents. The strong will always seek to oppress the weak.
I think there's a lot of history showing that imposing order from far away is pretty much doomed to failure. If you don't understand the situation on the ground and can't adapt to it, then you're going to cause a lot of trouble no matter how well intentioned you are.
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Iur_tae_mont wrote: "History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."
—Jean-Luc Picard
And then they spent every other episode ignoring the Prime Directive, and everything working out because they did so.
Roman, British, and American imperialism enjoyed great success in certain areas for certain time periods, but there has yet to exist a nation enlightened enough to actively pursue a pure form of benovelent Imperialism. Saying that it has occurred and failed is untrue because it has yet to ever occur.
I think South Korea is an excellent example of a 3rd world country successfully rehabilitated into a civilized and moral nation. The problem is even now, it is still far behind Western standards for living and it took 30-40 years to transform that country. However, if it can be done in a country that was a backwater state dominated by foreign powers and ravaged by war it can also be done in Africa. It simply requires commitment and no one wants to actually commit to doing so.
Amaya wrote:Roman, British, and American imperialism enjoyed great success in certain areas for certain time periods, but there has yet to exist a nation enlightened enough to actively pursue a pure form of benovelent Imperialism.
Arguably, there is no such thing. The British were probably the closest in that they basically told (most) of their colonies that they could do whatever they wanted, so long as they stuck to British notions of governance. Its why the Caribbean has so many democracies, but so few developed nations.
Well, that, and island nations tend to be democratic.
Amaya wrote:
However, if it can be done in a country that was a backwater state dominated by foreign powers and ravaged by war it can also be done in Africa. It simply requires commitment and no one wants to actually commit to doing so.
That's true, but the situation is still different on a cultural level.
Amaya wrote:Roman, British, and American imperialism enjoyed great success in certain areas for certain time periods, but there has yet to exist a nation enlightened enough to actively pursue a pure form of benovelent Imperialism.
Arguably, there is no such thing. The British were probably the closest in that they basically told (most) of their colonies that they could do whatever they wanted, so long as they stuck to British notions of governance. Its why the Caribbean has so many democracies, but so few developed nations.
Well, that, and island nations tend to be democratic.
Amaya wrote:
However, if it can be done in a country that was a backwater state dominated by foreign powers and ravaged by war it can also be done in Africa. It simply requires commitment and no one wants to actually commit to doing so.
That's true, but the situation is still different on a cultural level.
Well, there has never a true benovelent empire. It's strictly theoretical.
That is very true. Koreans had a great appreciation for scholars and were a unified people. One of the great problems with Africa is that a significant portion of the continent still operates under a tribal mentality. It is possible to force a people out of that, but doing so would require brutal methods and complete domination of a people for generations. Not morally acceptable for most people.
That and because it requires a unified state with clear goals and unshakable will. Such a nation must not allow itself to be moved by religious motives and must be tolerant (more importantly, accepting) of foreign cultures and religions There's not a nation on Earth right now that comes near those requirements.
Amaya wrote:Roman, British, and American imperialism enjoyed great success in certain areas for certain time periods, but there has yet to exist a nation enlightened enough to actively pursue a pure form of benovelent Imperialism. Saying that it has occurred and failed is untrue because it has yet to ever occur.
There were many well meaning components to colonialism. All kinds of people headed over there with bibles and aid programs, all intended to fix what's wrong. Problem being that actually learning what's wrong involves treating the people living not as stupid idiots who don't know how to fix their own problems, but as intelligent people who happen to have very complex,
I think South Korea is an excellent example of a 3rd world country successfully rehabilitated into a civilized and moral nation. The problem is even now, it is still far behind Western standards for living and it took 30-40 years to transform that country. However, if it can be done in a country that was a backwater state dominated by foreign powers and ravaged by war it can also be done in Africa. It simply requires commitment and no one wants to actually commit to doing so.
But what we did with South Korea was continue open trade, help them develop their own industries, and then stand there looking shocked as an impoverished dictatorship turned into a reasonably affluent democracy.
Lone Cat wrote:so which of the superpowers in this world supporting Kony?
- US of A?
- E.U.
- China?
- Russia?
I don't group China and Russia together now because at some point they have dispuites too! in term of business. China and Russia may have common products and are actually competing each other rather than facilitate each.
chances are that kony is dead, so none of the above are most likely. besides, most of the world has turned a blind eye and deaf ear to the warlords of africa, with the exception of a greedy handfull. ever see lord of war?
Amaya wrote:Roman, British, and American imperialism enjoyed great success in certain areas for certain time periods, but there has yet to exist a nation enlightened enough to actively pursue a pure form of benovelent Imperialism.
Arguably, there is no such thing. The British were probably the closest in that they basically told (most) of their colonies that they could do whatever they wanted, so long as they stuck to British notions of governance. Its why the Caribbean has so many democracies, but so few developed nations.
KONY 2012 is pointless. Only 36% of the money goes to charity, Kony hasn't been sighted for at least 5 years and the Ugandan army are just as bad as Kony's.
Kony wanted to bring democracy to his country using the only way he could: violence. However, because he isn't "pro west" we can't have him in control. That's all it boils down to.
Besides, shouldn't we sort out our own problems before we start policing the world? Who are we to go into other countries and enforce our laws. Let the Africans deal with it, it's their problem.
DeadlySquirrel wrote:Besides, shouldn't we sort out our own problems before we start policing the world? Who are we to go into other countries and enforce our laws. Let the Africans deal with it, it's their problem.
Generally, I agree with you. On the whole, I think the US should concern itself more with domestic matters.
On the other hand, with great power comes great responsibility. As the world's current champ in successful warmongering, don't we have a responsibility to try and alleviate human suffering where we can? Especially when it would be a relative trifle for us to do so?
I think I'd support increased US military action to put a bullet in this guy.
I say govt. just sends in an alpha-team overnight and "takes care" of Kony, if we're going to make a big deal about it. Jeez, but is it really that huge?
killykavekommando wrote:I say govt. just sends in an alpha-team overnight and "takes care" of Kony, if we're going to make a big deal about it. Jeez, but is it really that huge?
It is huge, but it has been going on for like 20 years and no one cared until some guy made a video on it.
killykavekommando wrote:I say govt. just sends in an alpha-team overnight and "takes care" of Kony, if we're going to make a big deal about it. Jeez, but is it really that huge?
It is huge, but it has been going on for like 20 years and no one cared until some guy made a video on it.
Kony is not even confirmed to be alive. He has not been spotted in 5 years.
killykavekommando wrote:I say govt. just sends in an alpha-team overnight and "takes care" of Kony, if we're going to make a big deal about it. Jeez, but is it really that huge?
It is huge, but it has been going on for like 20 years and no one cared until some guy made a video on it.
Kony is not even confirmed to be alive. He has not been spotted in 5 years.
Bingo. If he isn't even proven to exist anymore, then is it really worth taxpayer money for bullets? I totally get that everything he's doing is immoral, corrupt, and just plain moronic, but is Kony even the guy we're looking for behind the current operation?
killykavekommando wrote:I say govt. just sends in an alpha-team overnight and "takes care" of Kony, if we're going to make a big deal about it. Jeez, but is it really that huge?
Uh, US troops have been operating in a supporting role to catch this guy for some time now. The point is that it's actually quite hard to find someone hiding in a jungle, and that it takes time to do so.
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killykavekommando wrote:Bingo. If he isn't even proven to exist anymore, then is it really worth taxpayer money for bullets? I totally get that everything he's doing is immoral, corrupt, and just plain moronic, but is Kony even the guy we're looking for behind the current operation?
Because his organisation continues to raid villages, killing and abducting people. The point is not just to kill Kony, but take apart his organisation so it can't harm people anymore. Just like how killing Osama didn't mean the end of AQ.
Lone Cat wrote:got it! same as Zimbabwe.
make it another province directly ruled by Great Britain once again. the only solution I can think of.
and lets see how will rebellious Irish react to this?
Firstly that isn't an option.
Secondly why would Ireland care?
You're aware that Northern Ireland isn't rebellious?
but there are annual protests each year. remember.
ridiculous.
