My ardent dislike of International Women’s Day began in Moscow, befitting an event with roots in the socialism of the first decade of the last century. Frankly, it should have stayed there, along with Clara Zetkin and the Spartacists.
On March 8 every year, our office would empty of the mainly male Russian staff. A wilting red rose would be left on my desk to console me as I ploughed through reports and tried to fix the boiler. This combination of threadbare uselessness and mawkish sentimentalism makes March 8 a day to ignore.
Yet now it is making corporate inroads. A friend was last year asked to do a presentation on the day advising women in her firm. “Don’t try to work part-time if you want to reach the top,” she advised. An anguished note from human resources followed, asking her to be less frank in future.
More companies are now subjecting female employees to symbolic Women’s Day events, while digging in rigorously against the latest EU idea of female quotas on boards. I find quotas anathema, but the argument about them should make us look critically at the limited progress made since the Davis report on women in senior roles.
For all the fanfare about targets, only a third of top firms are committed to anything at all and only 10 per cent to tougher, quicker targets. If you think the City is bad, other big employers in the public sector and its private supply companies are a female desert. I just met a man from an outsourcing company with a female CEO who referred to the top-tier women as “girls”. Way to go, sir.
Through this minefield blunder the nation’s institutions. Women’s representation on air will feature in the race to run the BBC, where two of the three main internal candidates, Helen Boaden and Caroline Thomson, are female. They (and other contenders) have to explain why the Beeb has managed to end up with so few major female voices, despite an impressive set of women managers.
We have just enjoyed Andrew Marr, Melvyn Bragg and Jeremy Paxman doing the big showy numbers on the Queen, class and Empire. All with due merit, though some variation on baby-boomer men telling us how the world works might be an option. I know at first hand that the Beeb has many senior staff who are conscientious, tenacious supporters of women and seek out female talent. But until it stops mistaking a defensive posture for a more enthusiastic push, nothing much will change.
Political parties are similarly signed up to women of the theoretical variety. It would be miraculous if either Ed Miliband or David Cameron appointed a woman as chief of staff or strategist, as opposed to that mysterious role of “gatekeeper” — which is always a female because we are apparently so good at telling people to go away, nicely.
Today, a lot of corporate lip service will be paid to the advancement of women. Rather like the old Marxists, too few of those saying so mean it, as little as they believe the diversity pledges that adorn their year-end reports. We can aim higher. Don’t fall for it: even for two dozen red roses.
Don't see why we have 'womens day' when we don't have a 'mens' day. What about 'transgender' day or 'hemaphrodite' day? Is every other non-womans day mans day by default?
Phototoxin wrote:Don't see why we have 'womens day' when we don't have a 'mens' day.
We do have "men's day" (November 19th), but noone knows about it because every day is effectively men's day anyway so it's not really specifically practiced.
Phototoxin wrote: What about 'transgender' day
There is a Transgender Day of Remembrance-- November 20th.
Phototoxin wrote: or 'hemaphrodite' day?
"Intersexed", you mean. "Hermaphrodite" isn't applied to people these days. It's October 26.
Phototoxin wrote:Don't see why we have 'womens day' when we don't have a 'mens' day. What about 'transgender' day or 'hemaphrodite' day? Is every other non-womans day mans day by default?
Frankly it's sexist.
I'm pretty sure there is a mens day.
I'm too hungover to do any research to find out what day it is though.
Albatross wrote:Women's Day? I prefer Ladies Night.
What a night.
Or lesbian night?
Besides that title destroying the nice corporate synergy tie in with a marketable song, last I checked lesbians were still ladies too, assuming porn hasn't lied to me of course. They are just ladies who like ladies.
Melissia wrote:We do have "men's day" (November 19th), but noone knows about it because every day is effectively men's day anyway so it's not really specifically
Please do stop that. Its not funny. It comes accross as man hateing.
Phototoxin wrote:Don't see why we have 'womens day' when we don't have a 'mens' day. What about 'transgender' day or 'hemaphrodite' day? Is every other non-womans day mans day by default?
Melissa wrote:There is a Transgender Day of Remembrance-- November 20th... ..."Intersexed", you mean. "Hermaphrodite" isn't applied to people these days. It's October 26.
Clearly you're overstating the figure. I count the possibility for almost 12,000 exceptions.
You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but things seem to be getting better. Besides, statistically women get better grades in school and are more likely to be hired than men, which is big step forward from say, 20 years ago. The few remaining sexists seem to be freaking out now and are getting louder and crazier (like Rush Limbaugh).
I was at the peelers the other night, first time in a long time. The crowd was about 60/40 men/women. When I first went ~ 15 years ago, the only ladies were serving drinks and removing underwear.
feeder wrote:I was at the peelers the other night, first time in a long time. The crowd was about 60/40 men/women. When I first went ~ 15 years ago, the only ladies were serving drinks and removing underwear.
So there's progress?
Your shining example of sex equality is that women now also go to strip clubs?
LoneLictor wrote:You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but things seem to be getting better. Besides, statistically women get better grades in school and are more likely to be hired than men, which is big step forward from say, 20 years ago. The few remaining sexists seem to be freaking out now and are getting louder and crazier (like Rush Limbaugh).
Wouldn't a big step forward for equality have them both be hired the same
Phototoxin wrote:Don't see why we have 'womens day' when we don't have a 'mens' day.
We do have "men's day" (November 19th), but noone knows about it because every day is effectively men's day anyway so it's not really specifically practiced.
feeder wrote:I was at the peelers the other night, first time in a long time. The crowd was about 60/40 men/women. When I first went ~ 15 years ago, the only ladies were serving drinks and removing underwear.
So there's progress?
Your shining example of sex equality is that women now also go to strip clubs?
I was asking a question. Is the rise of women attending strip club an indicator of rising sex equality? Is stripping now less "degrading" and more "empowering" vis a vis female sexuality? Are more young women "kinda into girls"? One of these questions might be facetious.
feeder wrote:I was asking a question. Is the rise of women attending strip club an indicator of rising sex equality? Is stripping now less "degrading" and more "empowering" vis a vis female sexuality? Are more young women "kinda into girls"? One of these questions might be facetious.
I would think the rise of male strippers is a better indicator of equality, but YMMV.
Monster Rain wrote:I think it would depend upon how superior one feels to strippers.
I feel inferior to strippers, when they strip and dance they receive thunderous applause. When I take all of my clothes off and gyrate around a pole people retch and yell cruel obscenities at me.
Monster Rain wrote:I think it would depend upon how superior one feels to strippers.
I feel inferior to strippers, when they strip and dance they receive thunderous applause. When I take all of my clothes off and gyrate around a pole people retch and yell cruel obscenities at me.
Ill wax my back next time.
You could possibly grow your hair out and start shouting in a strange accent, as well. The ladies love that, or so I'm told.
Vladsimpaler wrote:Women's Day: As if American women weren't entitled enough
International Women's Day: A holiday started by socialists over a hundred years ago and much more observed in Eastern Bloc and Soviet countries since then, which ignorant people somehow misinterpret as a sign of modern American women being entitled.
C'mon, man. At least try to keep up. Google's right there.
Johnny-Crass wrote:If you pretend like you deeply care about womens day it can turn into laddies night
I don't know about over there, but here it's generally frowned upon for grown men to ply young laddies with drink and get them to dance around in a darkened room with loud music playing...
Vladsimpaler wrote:Women's Day: As if American women weren't entitled enough
Spoiler:
Oh yes, we're SOOOOOO fething entitled.
You get paid less but the laws work for you. Women can falsely accuse men of rape and nothing will happen. In divorces, women almost always get custody regardless of how bad of a parent they are. Socially, women have a much bigger advantage.
Plus, men can work more dangerous jobs which often have more pay as compensation. You wouldn't see women working on sewer pipes and all of that, because they're not strong enough. This definitely skews the number towards men
Also I'm an American so I'm talking about how I perceive Women's Day in America. You mad?
LoneLictor wrote:You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but things seem to be getting better. Besides, statistically women get better grades in school and are more likely to be hired than men, which is big step forward from say, 20 years ago. The few remaining sexists seem to be freaking out now and are getting louder and crazier (like Rush Limbaugh).
Wouldn't a big step forward for equality have them both be hired the same
Yeah, I suppose that's true.
Melissia wrote:
LoneLictor wrote:You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now.
Yeah, but a wounded animal is quite dangerous.
Agreed; sexists seem louder and angrier than ever before. They're panicking now I guess.
No, no its not. Its a sexist statement and as long as those are being made you loose all right to claime the moral high ground. Please explain how it is anything more than a bad joke?
Their is not equality in all things, but men and women both get a bad deal in things.
Men are treated worse in courts, education, rights with benefits, children, part time employment, pensions, retierment, healthcare, the media, etc etc.
We need to focus on equality for all not make jokes putting people down.
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Vladsimpaler wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:Women's Day: As if American women weren't entitled enough
Spoiler:
Oh yes, we're SOOOOOO fething entitled.
You get paid less but the laws work for you. Women can falsely accuse men of rape and nothing will happen. In divorces, women almost always get custody regardless of how bad of a parent they are. Socially, women have a much bigger advantage.
Plus, men can work more dangerous jobs which often have more pay as compensation. You wouldn't see women working on sewer pipes and all of that, because they're not strong enough. This definitely skews the number towards men
Also I'm an American so I'm talking about how I perceive Women's Day in America. You mad?
Lower pay is a very poor example anyway. Women are more likely to work part times, work shorter hours and take brakes for childcare. This is partly bad that men feel they cannot take time out for there children ( i used to have a boss who would take time out to look after her children but her non manager husband would not, as he was not aloud to), but also explaines the gap.
Oh yes it is. Just look at the gaming industry for example. Games are made for men, by men. The industry doesn't even have a damned clue how to appeal to women at all.
Mannahnin wrote:...there being a significant difference between "ladies" and "laddies".
Really? I am suddenly less... interested...
I chased skirts all over the world.
And then I got to Scotland......
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Melissia wrote:
Electro wrote:No, no its not.
Oh yes it is. Just look at the gaming industry for example. Games are made for men, by men. The industry doesn't even have a damned clue how to appeal to women at all.
I actually had a female character I felt was pretty strong, but then I was a little biased to the lass.
Vlad's just trolling. If he keeps posting in the same way in here he'll be treated as such. Given that he acted as a sounding board/devil's advocate for Melissia I'm giving him more or less a pass for that last post. If he wants to make a real post he's welcome to.
Mannahnin wrote:Vlad's just trolling. If he keeps posting in the same way in here he'll be treated as such. Given that he acted as a sounding board/devil's advocate for Melissia I'm giving him more or less a pass for that last post. If he wants to make a real post he's welcome to.
Really? How can you be so sure, is attempting to refute Melissia regarded as trolling now or something? Is it because she is a woman in a thread about an "International Women's Day"? A mod jumping to a conclusion like that is not something I would expect. There is nothing wrong with attempting to refute someone's argument or even being a sounding board, in fact in discussions it should be encouraged.
I find nothing inheritanley inflammatory about Vlad's comments here was pointing out what he perceived was wrong with Melissisa's comments as I am now with you, if that makes him a troll, than I guess I am one as well. Sarcastic remark a troll does not make.
His comments were clearly inflammatory and insincere. I write this from prior knowledge of his posting history and from his own public and open admission to frequently trolling.
Mannahnin wrote:Vlad's just trolling. If he keeps posting in the same way in here he'll be treated as such. Given that he acted as a sounding board/devil's advocate for Melissia I'm giving him more or less a pass for that last post. If he wants to make a real post he's welcome to.
Really? How can you be so sure, is attempting to refute Melissia regarded as trolling now or something? Is it because she is a woman in a thread about an "International Women's Day"? A mod jumping to a conclusion like that is not something I would expect. There is nothing wrong with attempting to refute someone's argument or even being a sounding board, in fact in discussions it should be encouraged.
I find nothing inheritanley inflammatory about Vlad's comments here was pointing out what he perceived was wrong with Melissisa's comments as I am now with you, if that makes him a troll, than I guess I am one as well. Sarcastic remark a troll does not make.
Vladsimpaler wrote:Women's Day: As if American women weren't entitled enough
Mannahnin wrote:Vlad's just trolling. If he keeps posting in the same way in here he'll be treated as such. Given that he acted as a sounding board/devil's advocate for Melissia I'm giving him more or less a pass for that last post. If he wants to make a real post he's welcome to.
The "you mad" was not necessarily needed, however I was actually being serious about my post. It's unfortunate when one's beliefs are considered "trolling", however I'll just leave it at that. You're also the only mod to ban me (twice) so I know you don't like me, but in the grand scheme of things that's part of life and I accept what you feel about me.
Melissia wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:Women can falsely accuse men of rape and nothing will happen
Men can rape and get away with it because of the law.
Which is unfortunate, but people also get away with a lot of other things to. Not saying it makes it right. Part of the problem is that rape has been marginalized by women who nowadays will say that they were raped just because they regretted sleeping with some guy. From what I've read, I know that it's also very difficult to prove that there has been rape because it's so often one person's words against another's, especially without DNA evidence or other witnesses. However this still doesn't mean much, because men can get raped too and they'll be even less likely to talk about it.
Vladsimpaler wrote:In divorces, women almost always get custody regardless of how bad of a parent they are.
This is becoming less and less the case.
I haven't read anything that supports your view but if it is indeed true then that is definitely a good thing. Of course, it would also be nice if there wasn't so divorces, however we can't have it all haha
Vladsimpaler wrote:Socially, women have a much bigger advantage.
In high school maybe. Not in the adult world.
At least through college, women are definitely at an advantage. Women after college don't need to work to get married, they get tons of white knights coming after them. The only disadvantage I can think of is in their late 30's when a woman's looks are starting to fade.
Vladsimpaler wrote:Plus, men can work more dangerous jobs which often have more pay as compensation.
So can women-- and in fact more and more women are, whenever we are actually allowed to (military for example).
That doesn't really follow what I was saying. I haven't ever read anything about an overwhelming amount of women going coal mining or logging nowadays, which is definitely dangerous. It also requires much more strength than women will have. (And before you say that there are women who are stronger then men, know that there are always exceptions to rules)
Vladsimpaler wrote:You wouldn't see women working on sewer pipes and all of that
You don't get out much do you? Hahaha, nice, I assume you have been in a situation where you've seen women working on sewer pipes? If so you got me there
Vladsimpaler wrote:Also I'm an American so I'm talking about how I perceive Women's Day in America. You mad?
I'm far more American than you, being a Texan and all. Care to quantify that claim? Enjoyable weather in Austin today, even tanned for a while after it being cloudy all last weak (no I don't go to UT)
Melissia wrote:I would think the rise of male strippers is a better indicator of equality, but YMMV.
Depends on your opinion of strippers.
And whether you prefer the idea of lifting up one group or dragging down the other.
Mannahnin wrote:Vlad's just trolling. If he keeps posting in the same way in here he'll be treated as such. Given that he acted as a sounding board/devil's advocate for Melissia I'm giving him more or less a pass for that last post. If he wants to make a real post he's welcome to.
Based on this comment, I can't wait for international men's day. The chance to make all the misogynistic statements I want, and anyone who disagrees with it gets banned for trolling!
I wouldn't recommend it. Nor do I think your reasoning is good.
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Vladsimpaler wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Vlad's just trolling. If he keeps posting in the same way in here he'll be treated as such. Given that he acted as a sounding board/devil's advocate for Melissia I'm giving him more or less a pass for that last post. If he wants to make a real post he's welcome to.
The "you mad" was not necessarily needed, however I was actually being serious about my post. It's unfortunate when one's beliefs are considered "trolling", however I'll just leave it at that. You're also the only mod to ban me (twice) so I know you don't like me, but in the grand scheme of things that's part of life and I accept what you feel about me.
I don't feel much about you. It's not personal, although I admit I rather like Dakka and don't like to see people crapping in it. Feel free to discuss the thread/your past history and warnings/suspensions from me with any other mod and see if they disagree.
Mannahnin wrote:His comments were clearly inflammatory and insincere. I write this from prior knowledge of his posting history and from his own public and open admission to frequently trolling.
Whilst I admit I did not know his posting history, what makes it so "clearly inflammatory and insincere", where you are getting, inflammatory and inscincere, I get a witty, tongue in cheek remark that is truer than it first appears.
Slarg232 wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:Women's Day: As if American women weren't entitled enough
Melissia wrote:I would think the rise of male strippers is a better indicator of equality, but YMMV.
I think that would be more an indicator of what men and women like, more than anything else.
With stripping, what matters is that the people doing it are doing so because it's the career they chose, not one they were forced into by a lack of other opportunities. Once that's decided, everything else is people making their own choices.
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Vladsimpaler wrote:You get paid less but the laws work for you. Women can falsely accuse men of rape and nothing will happen.
This is true, somewhat, but is the product of how difficult rape cases are in general. On the other side of the coin, men can rape a woman and are overwhelmingly likely to get away with it.
In divorces, women almost always get custody regardless of how bad of a parent they are.
This would have been a pretty good point in 1990. Modern courts have no gender bias, and the only reason the woman gets primary carer more often than the man is because that issue is generally agreed to by both parties.
Socially, women have a much bigger advantage.
This is so vague as to be utterly meaningless.
Plus, men can work more dangerous jobs which often have more pay as compensation. You wouldn't see women working on sewer pipes and all of that, because they're not strong enough. This definitely skews the number towards men
They control for that stuff, you know. Really, honest and truly you have to accept it is an absolute fact that women are paid less on average than men for the same job. This is just a thing that's true. No matter how much you want to believe poor old men are picked on by mean old women, it remains a fact.
Also, taller men are paid more than short men for the same job, and men with hair are paid more than bald men. We as a species are conditioned to some ridiculous nonsense.
Also I'm an American so I'm talking about how I perceive Women's Day in America. You mad?
Vladsimpaler wrote:
Women after college don't need to work to get married, they get tons of white knights coming after them.
Unless you're a horrible monster of a man (and I'm not even necessarily limiting this to physical issues), finding prospective partners (of either sex) is not difficult.
This is especially true, for both sexes, if you don't care about the quality of your partner. But, since that tends to be an issue, things become complicated.
There's this weird idea that a girl you find attractive is attractive to all other men, and it doesn't make any sense. I've known girls that were shockingly beautiful in every sense of the term, but not found them attractive at all. I've also known girls that I find almost uncomfortably attractive, only to have my friends look at me in bewilderment when we start dating.
About the only girl I've ever known to have a natural advantage in terms of getting laid is one of my exs. She played rugby, and was one of the only cute (and straight) girls on the women's team. Seeing as rugby socials tend to include both men's and women's teams, she got hit on a lot.
LoneLictor wrote:You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but things seem to be getting better. Besides, statistically women get better grades in school and are more likely to be hired than men, which is big step forward from say, 20 years ago. The few remaining sexists seem to be freaking out now and are getting louder and crazier (like Rush Limbaugh).
Oh yes it is. Just look at the gaming industry for example. Games are made for men, by men. The industry doesn't even have a damned clue how to appeal to women at all.
Horse gak. Genghis Connie is a master of many of these "for men" games and routinely stomps the boys at parties. She and her friend even have this matching victory dance they do. Sweet!
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Mannahnin wrote:I wouldn't recommend it. Nor do I think your reasoning is good.
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Vladsimpaler wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Vlad's just trolling. If he keeps posting in the same way in here he'll be treated as such. Given that he acted as a sounding board/devil's advocate for Melissia I'm giving him more or less a pass for that last post. If he wants to make a real post he's welcome to.
The "you mad" was not necessarily needed, however I was actually being serious about my post. It's unfortunate when one's beliefs are considered "trolling", however I'll just leave it at that. You're also the only mod to ban me (twice) so I know you don't like me, but in the grand scheme of things that's part of life and I accept what you feel about me.
I don't feel much about you. It's not personal, although I admit I rather like Dakka and don't like to see people crapping in it. Feel free to discuss the thread/your past history and warnings/suspensions from me with any other mod and see if they disagree.
In Manny's defense, were I still a Mod I'd ban you, but thats mostly because I hate the name "Vlad." Something tells me you have an unhealthy interest in former abbeys currently for sale in the London area...
Oh yes it is. Just look at the gaming industry for example. Games are made for men, by men. The industry doesn't even have a damned clue how to appeal to women at all.
Horse gak. Genghis Connie is a master of many of these "for men" games and routinely stomps the boys at parties. She and her friend even have this matching victory dance they do. Sweet!
There's the several women and girls that I know that love a large variety of games. My wife and I picked up a second Xbox so we could play MW3 together without having to split screen.
I also disagree that the industry doesn't know how to appeal to women. I can cite The Sims, Animal Crossing and Farmville off the top of my head.
I love when the majority feels oppressed by the political minority. It feels so... righteous!
It's pretty obvious, that Women have had it rougher for a longer period of history than Men have. That being said, I think Men are finally starting to recognize and feel the pressure of having to compete against women economically, politically, and socially in a way theyhaven't had to before.
I'll be honest, as a man; I sometimes find it a bit daunting. Now, I have to compete against everyone except children.
That's because of this particular statistic (from the CIA World Factbook):
at birth: 1.048 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.75 male(s)/female
total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2010 est.)
Women tend to live longer than men essentially. But the ratio through most of the population is roughly equal.
Melissia wrote:That's because of this particular statistic (from the CIA World Factbook):
at birth: 1.048 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.75 male(s)/female
total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2010 est.)
Women tend to live longer than men essentially. But the ratio through most of the population is roughly equal.
Which means there is no real minority. that 's a good thing, right?
Melissia wrote:That's because of this particular statistic (from the CIA World Factbook):
at birth: 1.048 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.75 male(s)/female
total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2010 est.)
Women tend to live longer than men essentially. But the ratio through most of the population is roughly equal.
Which means there is no real minority. that 's a good thing, right?
Nom
The term "Minority" at least in a context where you're talking about things like rights, oppression and status isn't strictly about relative population size.
IIRC that also used fear and guns in order to keep running.
Women were kept in place using similar things over the last, oh, say 10,000 years or so. That wasn't the point though. It was in response to how a minority in numbers can wield the majority of political power. It isn't as simple as which there is more of numerically.
In divorces, women almost always get custody regardless of how bad of a parent they are.
This would have been a pretty good point in 1990. Modern courts have no gender bias, and the only reason the woman gets primary carer more often than the man is because that issue is generally agreed to by both parties.
Hate to tell you but this is a load of BS, The courts aren't fair for men and women. The entire system in the US is devoted to making men's life harder. And trust me, I am currently going through this. I had 5 witness who saw the child's mother abuse him and the courts sided with the mother. Now the judge is female, and for some reason the mother is getting more time with the child and getting her way. I haven't gotten a holiday with the child since this started. Now tell me that men and women are treated equally.
Now do women need a day? Where is the man's day? Isn't there a holiday in February where men devote most of our time and energy along with all out money to make you happy? If you are a woman (of drinking age) and go to a bar. You kinda run the show don't you. You don't have to pay for a drink and every man knows you are a woman. Gamer women... COME DO YOU REALLY NEED A DAY FOR MEN TO THINK OF YOU AS A WOMAN? This is just a silly idea.
A day to show how far women have come in the history of mankind is kinda on the dumb side isn't? Walk down the street in the middle of summer, If you see a woman with skin showing... We all know you moved forward in the social standings. Woman have jobs, yay... Is one day out of the year to tell every one really needed? or can we call it common knowledge at this point? And are men going to have a day to? something like mothers and fathers day.... and are men going to have to buy things for womyn's day? Are we still going to get yelled at? When i see women in the streets being beat for driving then yes maybe we need to remind our selves that they are people too. but until that day, i'll continue to spend a massive amount of money every Friday and one day every February.
LoneLictor wrote:You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but things seem to be getting better. Besides, statistically women get better grades in school and are more likely to be hired than men, which is big step forward from say, 20 years ago. The few remaining sexists seem to be freaking out now and are getting louder and crazier (like Rush Limbaugh).
And this is a great example of 'equality'?
Yeah, I guess it's unequal. However, sexism towards women is a way bigger problem than sexism towards men, so we should work on resolving that first.
LoneLictor wrote:You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but things seem to be getting better. Besides, statistically women get better grades in school and are more likely to be hired than men, which is big step forward from say, 20 years ago. The few remaining sexists seem to be freaking out now and are getting louder and crazier (like Rush Limbaugh).
And this is a great example of 'equality'?
Yeah, I guess it's unequal. However, sexism towards women is a way bigger problem than sexism towards men, so we should work on resolving that first.
At the cost of losing a significant amount of male supporters for women's rights by leaving it too long, as it looks like anti-male behaviour. If we're going to be gender-neutral and totally unbiased...then we should solve EVERY problem as it is discovered (perhaps explaining why there is a rise on female-on-male abuse.).
If Feminist movements could integrate groups like Fathers 4 Justice, then I would take Feminism seriously.
What does history matter when we're currently repeating history for the opposite gender now? I thought this was meant to be gender-unbiased rather than purely revenge.
Mr Hyena wrote:What does history matter when we're currently repeating history for the opposite gender now? I thought this was meant to be gender-unbiased rather than purely revenge.
None of what you wrote here corresponds to reality.
Are you told to get in the kitchen and not allowed to hold many jobs based on your gender? Are you paid less for the same work than a woman of equal qualifications and experience? Is your wife permitted to beat you or have sex with you against your will without it being a crime?
All of those things were true of women even in Western countries until fairly recently. One of them still is.
Mr Hyena wrote:What does history matter when we're currently repeating history for the opposite gender now? I thought this was meant to be gender-unbiased rather than purely revenge.
None of what you wrote here corresponds to reality.
Are you told to get in the kitchen and not allowed to hold many jobs based on your gender? Are you paid less for the same work than a woman of equal qualifications and experience? Is your wife permitted to beat you or have sex with you against your will without it being a crime?
All of those things were true of women even in Western countries until fairly recently. One of them still is.
And thats bad obviously.
How is ignoring the same things against males right though?
Well socially there are several stereotypes concerning men that are overwhelmingly negative...
It's the same for women but at least those are seen and people agree they are a bad thing...
Mannahnin wrote:We're not. None of those things are happening to men, and it's silly of you to say so.
This isn't a bad thing?:
You know, I think sexism is on its last legs now. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but things seem to be getting better. Besides, statistically women get better grades in school and are more likely to be hired than men, which is big step forward from say, 20 years ago. The few remaining sexists seem to be freaking out now and are getting louder and crazier (like Rush Limbaugh).
Notice how it doesn't say that men and woman are equally likely to be hired, which is what we should be after?
There is also the case of education...in which there are bias against men. Especially primary school teaching. Also in child custody disputes. I'm not saying women aren't mistreated, but I think to say that there is nothing like that for men, is pretty ignorant.
There is a fair amoutn fo evidence to show that men and women benefit from different learning and examination styles...
Though ultimately it'd come down to individual by individual basis...
Mr Hyena wrote:What does history matter when we're currently repeating history for the opposite gender now? I thought this was meant to be gender-unbiased rather than purely revenge.
None of what you wrote here corresponds to reality.
Are you told to get in the kitchen and not allowed to hold many jobs based on your gender? Are you paid less for the same work than a woman of equal qualifications and experience? Is your wife permitted to beat you or have sex with you against your will without it being a crime?
All of those things were true of women even in Western countries until fairly recently. One of them still is.
Yes actually, but then again I'm married to a Texas woman...
PapaPiggy wrote:Hate to tell you but this is a load of BS, The courts aren't fair for men and women. The entire system in the US is devoted to making men's life harder. And trust me, I am currently going through this. I had 5 witness who saw the child's mother abuse him and the courts sided with the mother. Now the judge is female, and for some reason the mother is getting more time with the child and getting her way. I haven't gotten a holiday with the child since this started. Now tell me that men and women are treated equally.
No, it isn't bs. It's the result of an extensive study of the findings of courts, and the result is clear. Unlike to position 20 or more years ago, now when custody is disputed courts are coming down basically equally in terms of men and women.
I don't know your story, maybe you are getting screwed over. But your anecdote doesn't trump the entire rest of the human experience.
I do find it kind of funny that you'd assume the judge sides with your ex because she's female, but at the same time you seem completely oblivious to the basic fact that most positions of power are held by men, and that this might possibly affect how people are treated.
Now do women need a day? Where is the man's day?
There is a men's day. This was pointed out on the first page. Read the thread.
Isn't there a holiday in February where men devote most of our time and energy along with all out money to make you happy?
If you have a grossly disfunctional view of dating and the development of relationships, then sure. Or, more to the point, you think International Women's Day is about women wanting to be treated nicely, and not as a forum to discuss important areas of equality that still need to be managed.
and are men going to have to buy things for womyn's day? Are we still going to get yelled at? When i see women in the streets being beat for driving then yes maybe we need to remind our selves that they are people too. but until that day, i'll continue to spend a massive amount of money every Friday and one day every February.
So basically we've established you have no idea what Women's Day is about, but you really want to complain about the imaginary thing in your head. Okay then.
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Mr Hyena wrote:At the cost of losing a significant amount of male supporters for women's rights by leaving it too long, as it looks like anti-male behaviour. If we're going to be gender-neutral and totally unbiased...then we should solve EVERY problem as it is discovered (perhaps explaining why there is a rise on female-on-male abuse.).
Women in undeveloped countries are still denied economic independance and access to contraceptives is a bit more of a priority than other issues.
It is very important to understand that while men might have some things to complain about, maybe, they are very, very trivial matters in the scheme of greater gender equality. Perspective matters.
purplefood wrote:Well socially there are several stereotypes concerning men that are overwhelmingly negative... It's the same for women but at least those are seen and people agree they are a bad thing...
The stereotypes against men are also decried. I know I mock them every time someone tries to use them as an excuse for bad behavior.
Mind you you've never seen me use PMS as an excuse for bad behavior either so perhaps I'm just the odd person out.
sebster wrote:Hate to tell you but this is a load of BS, The courts aren't fair for men and women. The entire system in the US is devoted to making men's life harder. And trust me, I am currently going through this. I had 5 witness who saw the child's mother abuse him and the courts sided with the mother. Now the judge is female, and for some reason the mother is getting more time with the child and getting her way. I haven't gotten a holiday with the child since this started. Now tell me that men and women are treated equally.
No, it isn't bs. It's the result of an extensive study of the findings of courts, and the result is clear. Unlike to position 20 or more years ago, now when custody is disputed courts are coming down basically equally in terms of men and women.
You know, If you give the right people enough money they will come up with the results people want to hear. If you haven't had to go through a custody battle, then you don't have any first hand knowledge. You shouldn't believe all the studies you read. I could very well be getting screwed over. But you can't say that men and women are treated equally when it comes to children. No matter how many test are done and studies come out, it won't ever be equal. maybe some basis as gone away. But not enough to be able to say the court is equal. At least in the US, I can't speak for other countries.
I have add three different jobs where women are hired, and yet they can't do the job. But the people i worked for had to hire them for quotas. Whos losing there? Women being paid the same amount as a man, but can't physically do the job. Is that fair? If you say yes something is wrong in your head.
Its kinda funny it you think about it... Table top war games are seen as a man thing in most peoples eyes, and yet there is a thread about women... and its not about sex. Women need to remember, that they make the rules in the relationship, because i hate to tell the men out there, but a hand isn't the same.
I appreciate the topic can get a bit personal, but it'd be best if we perhaps refrained from labelling other posters as pyschopaths/similar please. Ta.
At least they've been made a MOD err.. killed their first victim and fed them to their weiner dogs ..danced around wearing their skins, wearing a traffic cone on their head yelling " Look at me, I'm heinrich kemmler ".
.. people still do that right ? I'm still down with the cool kids yeah ?
reds8n wrote: I appreciate the topic can get a bit personal, but it'd be best if we perhaps refrained from labelling other posters as pyschopaths/similar please. Ta.
At least they've been made a MOD err.. killed their first victim and fed them to their weiner dogs ..danced around wearing their skins, wearing a traffic cone on their head yelling " Look at me, I'm heinrich kemmler ".
.. people still do that right ? I'm still down with the cool kids yeah ?
Someone should have told you, if you mention their name, they will come.
Sometimes that weiner he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a weiner... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled posting .
