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Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/12 23:44:49


Post by: reds8n


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17274186



Warhammer 40,000 - set in a science fantasy universe - has just turned 25. Why are grown men still launching tabletop war?

You may have walked past one of the hundreds of Games Workshops on the High Street. You may even have wandered in, especially if you are a teenage boy or the parent of one.

If you know your Necrons (virtually invincible soulless metal warriors) from your Dark Eldar (sadistic elfin pirates), the chances are you are one of the dedicated tribe who have signed up to what fans call The Hobby.

Most days of the week, on table tops in "hobby centre" shops, in office lunchrooms, and bedrooms, players gather around home-constructed battle fields with miniature ruins and petrified forests. They assemble and paint small model fighters from a chosen army (several to collect) and using dice, tape measures and special rule books, battle rival militia in a fictional science fiction universe set in the 41st Millennium, called Warhammer 40,000.

Launched 25 years ago, 40K was so named to distinguish it from traditional fantasy Warhammer of elves and vampires. Both lines, together with a Lord of the Rings brand, continue to attract hundreds of thousands of new fans in Britain and across the world - 70% of sales are abroad.

The appeal is in collecting, assembling and painting the models, for play, which are manufactured in Nottingham (and Memphis, Tennessee) and sold through the Games Workshops chain and by mail order. Blood, torn flesh, grimacing skulls and very large guns and tanks feature prominently in the detailed artwork.

Despite the competition from online or console-based gaming, Warhammer continues to thrive, with successful spin-off novels set in the 40K universe. How many other British companies, for example, could report a 40% rise in their latest half-year pre-tax profits?

It's like why theatre remains popular in the age of cinema," says 32-year-old Andrew Ruddick from Cambridge, explaining its enduring appeal. He describes himself as a "relapsed" Warhammer gamer, slipping back into it in his 20s with friends. "There's an intimacy. With tabletop gaming you are there."

Several hundred such gamers gather regularly at Games Workshop's Hall of Fame, next to its Nottingham factory, for tournaments. Most, but certainly not all, are male.

They play on teams with names like Alfa Geek, Purple Pain and I See Lead People. Heavy rule books or codices (all published by GW) are consulted intently. Templates and tape measures are used to confirm terrain advanced and numbers of casualties. Occasionally a whoop of victory goes up from a table.

Kathryn Turner, 13, is playing a doubles match with her father Stephen against two strapping 30-something blokes. The poker-face calm with which she deploys her Tyranids (world-devouring aliens) is impressive.

"It's fun and I like spending this time with my dad," she says. Her mother Sue is one of the crop of self-confessed Warhammer Widows who spend all day in the cafe. Kathryn admits to sometimes wearing pink on the first day to psych out the male opponents. "I'm moving on to play with Sisters of Battle next," she says - it's an army of fanatical warrior nuns with flamethrowers.

The whole aesthetic is, as Andrew Ruddick puts it "very masculine". But the appeal is its epic scale, says Warhammer fan and Marvel X-Men comic writer, Kieron Gillen. "It's a hilariously OTT maximalist universe at an operatic pitch. There are some people who think less is more. Warhammer, conversely, believes that more is always more."

Foot-high model Titans can be brought out for particular battles. "Warhammer gone nuts," as my 12-year-old son puts it.

Gillen contrasts Warhammer 40K to role-playing fantasy gaming like the online World of Warcraft (the modern equivalent of Dungeons and Dragons). "In Warcraft it's made so there are no bad guys. In Warhammer there are no good guys. They're all bad. It's a universe that's simultaneously nihilistic and joyous. It's incredibly British in that way."

Gary Chalk, a 59-year-old fantasy game creator and illustrator, knows all about its Britishness. He used to design Warhammer and Warhammer 40K games in the 1980s and 90s. His trademark wit is evident in Bloodbath at Orc's Drift (an elvish version of the Michael Caine film Zulu) and a naval ship battle he called "All the Dwarves Love a Sailor". Still an enthusiastic table-top gamer, he does, however, believe Games Workshop uses its monopoly on the products to target and exploit increasingly younger fans. The prices for essential models, paints and books are "eyewatering", he says.

"They are not selling a hobby. They are selling a craze."

Several players say they feel exploited. "You need at least £200 just to set up a half-decent legal army for a game, and if you want a board and scenery to go to play with friends you're looking at least £200 on top of that," says Craig Lowdon, 25, of Crewe.

Games Workshop's executives say they don't do media interviews, preferring to focus on their hobbyists. But CEO Mark Wells e-mails me about the claim of price exploitation. "That would go against everything we stand for. It's just not in our nature," he writes.

And Chalk claims the game is now less interesting. "The original rules were about fantasy combat and creating character. Now the rules only work within their imaginary world, with their figures and it cuts out all the other influences."

But its legion of fans, including older fans, see a timeless appeal.

"[There's] the satisfaction of looking at ranks of badly-daubed Skaven (man-sized anthropomorphic rats) and knowing they're yours and you made them in a real way," says Kieron Gillen.

"It's absolutely the part of the brain that made other generations make model trains."


But CEO Mark Wells e-mails me about the claim of price exploitation. "That would go against everything we stand for. It's just not in our nature," he writes


take that internet !


Warhammer fan and Marvel X-Men comic writer, Kieron Gillen.


I guess that's another sortof celebrity yes ..?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/12 23:58:01


Post by: Jeep


Gee whiz, just a bit condescending. I'd like to see the backlash if they printed something similar about sports fans. "Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"

I'll gladly compare the price of an army to a season ticket for a pro football or soccer team. Unlike the season ticket, the army can last years. (Not that I don't enjoy going to the occasional game, but...)


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:00:15


Post by: Surtur


That does it. Mark Wells convinced me to buy the $55 minimum ATV of stuff that's required at GW stores.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:07:57


Post by: Hyd


But CEO Mark Wells e-mails me about the claim of price exploitation. "That would go against everything we stand for. It's just not in our nature," he writes.
I take it he means their nature of public company... Why that sounds perfectly natural if you put it that way, does it not ?

Jeep wrote:"Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"
Can't agree enough


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:15:47


Post by: FifteenHours


Jeep wrote:Gee whiz, just a bit condescending. I'd like to see the backlash if they printed something similar about sports fans. "Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"

I'll gladly compare the price of an army to a season ticket for a pro football or soccer team. Unlike the season ticket, the army can last years. (Not that I don't enjoy going to the occasional game, but...)


Yeah completely agree with this.

Also it's infinitely better than sitting on your ass playing world of warcraft all day. At least with 40k there is a huge social side to it and constructing/painting models takes real skill and is quite a healthy passtime.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:18:47


Post by: hotsauceman1


"Selling you a craze"
Um a craze doesnt last for 25 years.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:27:52


Post by: CT GAMER


I can't wait for her next article:

"Why are grown women obsessed with watching total strangers buy real estate and bake cup cakes"



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:29:27


Post by: biccat


CT GAMER wrote:I can't wait for her next article:

"Why are grown women obsessed with watching total strangers buy real estate and bake cup cakes"

The world may never know.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:30:18


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Seems Wells is at odds with Tom “We’ll sell them at whatever price we want!” Kirby.

But yeah, the ‘why are grown men’ thing is a bit silly. Average gamer (console/PC) is early 30’s, and we don’t see anything like “Why are grown men still playing with Mario!”.

It’s a hobby, and everyone needs a hobby. Nothing all that special about it.


Although, when the article called it ‘The Hobby’, I have to say a shiver ran down my spine. GW are not ‘The Hobby’. They are part of the hobby, but not it in and of itself (even if they like to pretend they are).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CT GAMER wrote:I can't wait for her next article:

"Why are grown women obsessed with watching total strangers buy real estate and bake cup cakes"


And what's with all the shoes!!!



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 00:33:30


Post by: Jomy


Jeep wrote:Gee whiz, just a bit condescending. I'd like to see the backlash if they printed something similar about sports fans. "Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"



"They" write pieces like that all the time. Well, sometimes at least. I've not seen any real backlash yet, unless you count internet comments.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 01:03:15


Post by: dwfait


"Dark Eldars on left (photos by Jordan Louis); Neocrons on right (photos by AdmGR and Victor Yoon)"

Spelling / grammar errors and condescending nature to a hobby that is quite a bit older than 25 years (wargames and painting model soldiers have been about for at least a century).

I expect more from the BBC.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 01:19:45


Post by: dkellyj


Well, it's either 40K or stuffing dollar bills down scantilly clad late-teen/early-twenty aged girls underwear in a darkened room with smells that can put gamer-funk to shame.
And being married, She Who Must Be Obeyed prefers the former hobby to the later.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 01:37:36


Post by: WaaaaghLord


"Why are grown men still launching virtual war with people thousands of miles across the globe?"

"Why are grown men still watching muscular men grapple in spandex?"

"Why do grown men still collect poseable action figures?"

This article really could not be more condescending, whilst totally missing the point of why people play Warhammer 40,000.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 01:58:11


Post by: Bat Manuel


I see lead people

That's what I got out of the article. I don't really care what anyone says about anything I chose to do with my time.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 02:58:51


Post by: Kaldor


Wow, sensitive much? The article was quite informative if you were a non-gamer, and not at all condescending.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 02:59:22


Post by: Johnny-Crass


I think every girl gamer should complain. Why did they not get to be included in this!? "Why do grown men and women have a hobby other than cooking, cleaning and the BBC?"


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 03:13:31


Post by: TedNugent


Why are grown women spending hundreds of dollars of their husband's money buying Frosty the Snowman sweaters and Leopard print handbags off the Home Shopping Network? The world may never know...


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 03:17:24


Post by: Red Comet


The way the article started off was a little odd. Can't they just realize that different people enjoy different things?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 03:28:57


Post by: Scambone


Definitely a condescending news report there.
40k is an inherently face to face social hobby. That makes it a lot less nerdy than WoW or the Xbox Live bro's.
Also I hate sports and find it incredibly boring to sit through pretty much any athletic competition so I like the comparison to ticket prices. Really its not bad in comparison to most hobbies/past-times as far as expense.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 04:05:49


Post by: killykavekommando


I really hate condescending writers like this guy. I mean really, if you're going to put the hate on someone, do it to someone with no social life (like maybe online journalists). Albeit 40k isn't the hippest thing in the world, but at least we aren't paying money to watch tall dark strangers chase an inflated dead animal around a fenced in area. I enjoy what I do, and I don't know any other wargamer that dislikes doing whatever they do. Word.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 04:45:38


Post by: malfred


Several players say they feel exploited. "You need at least £200 just to set up a half-decent legal army for a game, and if you want a board and scenery to go to play with friends you're looking at least £200 on top of that," says Craig Lowdon, 25, of Crewe.


Isn't an Xbox 360 nearly £200 in England? And you don't have
to buy the damn table from GW. I mean, the hobby is expensive,
but it doesn't have to be.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 05:19:25


Post by: KamikazeCanuck


I was just about to post this, good thing I checked to see if S8n had beaten me to the punch as usual. I think it's funny that prices are so bad even the BBC had to comment on it.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 07:25:43


Post by: Velour_Fog


reds8n wrote:

Warhammer fan and Marvel X-Men comic writer, Kieron Gillen.


I guess that's another sortof celebrity yes ..?


I knew that name sounded familiar! He used to work for PC Gamer UK. (Apologies if that's obvious to everyone else)


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 08:00:01


Post by: notprop


Well that was something and nothing.

I didnt find it in anyway condescending, I was clearly meant as an informative "fluff" piece, written by the looks of it by a mum/dad journo with a passing knowledge.

I'd say nice find red but it's already on the top ten read list . That could be a good thing if it promoted more indepth article. I would like to see messers Kirby and Wells continue their no media routine if Robert Preston wanted a word.

I guess that the fact that it is already trending means the nerdsharks know there's blood in the water. Just as well they don't have the "your comments" bit on this one. I can only imagine how busy the BBC Mods would be with that one!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 08:04:46


Post by: Poppabear


Good read, but I don't get it.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 08:09:01


Post by: rockerbikie


Wow that is a good read but kinda insulting towards me.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 08:52:05


Post by: thenoobbomb


There are some very hater comments in the comment section of that article..


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 08:55:02


Post by: ifStatement


Some people take the slightest of things as personal insults huh.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 08:59:52


Post by: Velour_Fog


thenoobbomb wrote:There are some very hater comments in the comment section of that article..


Why wouldn't there be? Haters gonna hate on the internet even more than RL, dude.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:02:44


Post by: Graphite


Oh, god, the fools opened it to comments.

This is going to be awesome.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:05:12


Post by: Velour_Fog


Graphite wrote:Oh, god, the fools opened it to comments.

This is going to be awesome.


My thoughts exactly!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:10:23


Post by: Ratius


Nowhere near enough terrain on that table in picture 1.

I have to say I thought it was a nice article and fairly informative if you think of someone who has little or no knowledge of 40k.
Sure it comes across a little nerdy but Warhammer IS nerdy.

In addition it was written for the Magazine section of the website so its not actually supposed to be a factual, hard hitting article. Its more a commentary/descriptive piece.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:19:51


Post by: Eiríkr


I sincerely wish that the BBC had taken their cameras in store, perhaps. They chose some rather poorly painted models, in some chap's back room. Alas! The awesomeness that could have been created were the BBC readership shown Marines ripping apart Tyranids in 'Eavy Metal standards!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:21:02


Post by: NAVARRO


Hit and miss I guess, prices are expensive, we are geeky, GW is not the wargamming hobby and the article was okish even if a bit silly sometimes.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:23:35


Post by: reds8n


You could find better things to do with your time, but at least they are not playing war games with real peoples lives like the politicians and those who control them.


Stick it to the man !

The reason these games, whether it be on a table or on screen, are so successful in modern Western culture is that very few people get any sense of accomplishment from their real lives anymore. Let's face it, these men are generally single, therefore not providing for their families. Most of them work fairly boring jobs, therefore not finding satisfaction there either. It's artificial success.


feth, we're rumbled everyone !

Infinitely preferable to play at fantasy war than to 'play' at the real thing. I don't read daily reports of young men destroyed from playing Warhammer.


haha ! Guess you don't go on the forums much.. no, wait..

Who cares - as long as they aren't harming anyone, can't see a problem at all. Let people occupy themselves as they see fit. Better than going out and actually shooting anyone. Jheeeez.


Well you say that, but we've yet to see how society might benefit from 40k players all going on murderous rampages.



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:39:47


Post by: Graphite


Now you'd think after all these years the beeb would dig out the chap who invented the game wouldn't you! Ah well... nice to see Warhammer 40K is still round and obviously retains its ability to enthrall, challange and entertain after 25 years. I only wish I could say the same

Rick Priestley


Really? REALLY?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:45:27


Post by: Electro


The reason these games, whether it be on a table or on screen, are so successful in modern Western culture is that very few people get any sense of accomplishment from their real lives anymore. Let's face it, these men are generally single, therefore not providing for their families. Most of them work fairly boring jobs, therefore not finding satisfaction there either. It's artificial success.


Are crap... They have realised that my wife and kids, job I enjoy and hours spent perfecting (still a loooonnggg way to go) my painting skills are all fake! Prats.

Glad to see the haters being pulled to bits.

There may be other companys and games, but this realy is about a sucessful UK company that is celebrating a big event more than it is about wargaming. Knowing the BBC there is probably going to be a program about GW, or some news artical about them on the national news. They do that every week with "New survey shows X" or "scientists announce Y" and oddly enough there is a Horizon or Panorama about the same subject later that week. Probably all linked in with the "Mary Portas trys to make herself look like the good guy in an industry she fethed up" program and stuff on british manufaturing.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:47:34


Post by: Velour_Fog


93.
Bibi
Just now

Why are grown men still launching tabletop war? ... Probably because most people still raise their sons to think violence, weapons, armies and killing are in some way *cool*. Also, no doubt, because of the glorification given to war by the worldwide media (& particularly in the UK) - there is scant coverage given to the dreadful tragedies befalling ordinary people at the hands of soldiers.


Derp.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:50:01


Post by: Blackhoof


i didnt find the article condescending or insulting at all- the heading was clearly a joke or a silly throw-away line than a serious stab at wargamers.

some people need to grow thicker skins.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:56:53


Post by: Agamemnon2


Hear, hear. You call this an "attack"? Oh please, I've had worse attacks of indigestion.

And such a typical response, too. Someone writes an article that 40k fans don't like, so they whinge. Nobody's thinking, hey, what can I do to improve the public perception of my hobby. Nobody's thinking "Are the hobby demographics set in stone?" or "Are there demonstrable positive effects of wargaming the public should be told of?"

No. You're all too busy commenting on whether or not they showed enough terrain on the tables or well enough painted miniatures. As if that mattered.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 09:58:42


Post by: Ratius


Sheeesh lighten up, the terrain comment was supposed to be facetious.

Would a have helped after it?

But I agree with your post overall.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 10:01:44


Post by: filbert


I think whatever the tone (perceived or otherwise) and content of the article, anything that helps to promote and expose wargaming and the hobby in general to a wider audience can only be a good thing. Part of the disdain shown for wargaming comes from simple ignorance and misunderstanding - the more that can be done to counter that, the better.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 10:04:31


Post by: alphaecho


HBMC wrote :Although, when the article called it ‘The Hobby’, I have to say a shiver ran down my spine. GW are not ‘The Hobby’. They are part of the hobby, but not it in and of itself (even if they like to pretend they are).


Unfortunately it appears to be a growing trend. Flames of War ,with their new edition, have a "Flames of War Hobby" book. Not quite "The Hobby" I grant you.

Nice to see in the comments on the Beeb article that plemty of people not involved in wargaming recognise that there is a skill involved in painting and playing. Plus unlike other "grown up" hobbies, we do not require policing by mounted bobbies just because our team lost.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 10:16:26


Post by: Sonophos


Foot-high model Titans can be brought out for particular battles. "Warhammer gone nuts," as my 12-year-old son puts it.


Did daddy see the prices?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 10:50:41


Post by: Kaldor


rockerbikie wrote:Wow that is a good read but kinda insulting towards me.


Really? How?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 11:59:49


Post by: olympia


69.
Rick Priestley
2 Hours ago

Now you'd think after all these years the beeb would dig out the chap who invented the game wouldn't you! Ah well... nice to see Warhammer 40K is still round and obviously retains its ability to enthrall, challange and entertain after 25 years. I only wish I could say the same

Rick Priestley


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 12:08:18


Post by: Blackskullandy


I was told that subbuteo was The Hobby...
Literally. Sub Buteo being the latin name for the Hobby Hawk.

Back OT, People who don't play table top wargames mocking those who do? Not really news...


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 12:13:49


Post by: filbert


Someone's been watching re-runs of QI


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 12:41:20


Post by: Leggy


I've got to say it seems a very fair-minded article, written from an Outsider-looking-in perspective. Especially as it seems like GW wanted to give as little input as possible.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 12:54:38


Post by: Ledabot


I've seen some pritty bad articles mayself. My local gaming club has a pinboard with all the recent articles related to war-gaming on it and some of those are shockers. The writers don't know gak and theydon't seem to care to find out anything ether.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 13:08:57


Post by: notprop


I wouldn't take the comments too seriously but they are generally positive which is a pleasant change for allot of Internet based GW comment.

71. IanSturrock name check, first Dakkanaut on the list. How dare thee disrespect the creators hobby supplies!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 13:11:07


Post by: Thortek


Interesting read, although very condescending....


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 13:36:31


Post by: Flinty


Its not condescending, its simplified. The intended audience is not us and it is written with that in mind. It doesn;t go into any details really and jsut says that these things happen and the people who do it rather enjoy it and sometime make up silly names for things.

If it raises interest then all to the good, but its hardly going to start hordes of vigilantes to go hunting wargamers.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 13:39:05


Post by: Ian Sturrock


notprop wrote:I 71. IanSturrock name check, first Dakkanaut on the list. How dare thee disrespect the creators hobby supplies!


Heh-heh! Couldn't resist weighing in with my favourite massive GW rip-off...

I was reading an old WD about making your own wargaming table (before they started wanting to sell you a wargaming table...) and the amount of PVA involved at GW prices would be insane! But that was back in the day when, rather than saying "Buy 100 pots of Bestial Brown to paint your desert board", they actually recommended going in to B&Q and having the staff mix up a big pot of Bestial Brown shade.

The PVA thing just REALLY bugs me. Forever. It's just that PVA is PVA is PVA... there's no real difference between the brands. So charging more than ten times the usual retail price, screams RIP-OFF.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 13:43:52


Post by: ifStatement


Ian Sturrock wrote:
notprop wrote:I 71. IanSturrock name check, first Dakkanaut on the list. How dare thee disrespect the creators hobby supplies!


Heh-heh! Couldn't resist weighing in with my favourite massive GW rip-off...

I was reading an old WD about making your own wargaming table (before they started wanting to sell you a wargaming table...) and the amount of PVA involved at GW prices would be insane! But that was back in the day when, rather than saying "Buy 100 pots of Bestial Brown to paint your desert board", they actually recommended going in to B&Q and having the staff mix up a big pot of Bestial Brown shade.

The PVA thing just REALLY bugs me. Forever. It's just that PVA is PVA is PVA... there's no real difference between the brands. So charging more than ten times the usual retail price, screams RIP-OFF.


Sure. The same goes for green stuff, paint brushes, glue. Pretty much anything which isn't exclusive to GW is overpriced ridiculously.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 13:50:32


Post by: olympia


I'm sure everyone here knows what condescending means.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:16:50


Post by: Howard A Treesong


GW should make an effort to engage with publicity. Do they think it's elitist to 'be above' giving interviews and the like. Their rejection of positive publicity is baffling but I'm sure they think it very clever. Here there is only a written response to say they would never price gouge.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:35:42


Post by: Snarky


I've never actually heard anyone call WH40k as "the hobby".. maybe it's a regional thing?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:36:20


Post by: CuddlySquig


Too many pictures of Necrons!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:44:15


Post by: Rayvon


I didnt find it condescending at all, i guess the manner in which it was wrote went above alot of peoples heads.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:49:36


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


"It’s annoying and false that we’re always painted up like clownish, unpalatable c**ts – except, of course, the many among our diverse and multinational breed who are indeed already clownish, unpalatable c**ts."
- Aaron Dembski-Bowden on the media portrayal of wargamers.

And I thought the article was fair handed and beige. Just a massive shame the figures shown in the pictures were fairly below par paint-wise. I also thought it was interesting that GW shied away from the interview and that they also researched enough to realise there is an ongoing issue re the price and presented 'the other side' of that 'argument'. It was a filler article, but not a bad one.

I'm sure trolling attacks via the article comments will be going on from bored chavs who've discovered how the internet works. I'm also sure that those among our community with no mastery of humor will be railing against them and providing them with more ammunition/amusement...

It's the circle of life, bishes.



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:51:10


Post by: mattyrm


Hah! Thanks for the link, amusing article.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:52:04


Post by: reds8n


http://www.bigissue.com/features/columnists/764/bit-fantasy-never-did-anybody-any-harm

Samira Ahmed considers the therapeutic benefits presented by the fantasy worlds of Harry Potter and Warhammer
Every generation has its teen moral panic exploitation movie. In the 1930s it was Reefer Madness. In the ’50s it was Beat Girl (the evils of Soho coffee bars and bongos). For my generation it was 1982’s Mazes and Monsters, in which a very young Tom Hanks goes mad and (spoiler alert) DIES after being sucked into the evil world of fantasy role-playing games at university. The film, falsely claiming to be based on a true story, was unconvincing even at the time. But it captured the adult world’s distrust of adolescent escape fantasies.

In modern Britain it has been easy to sneer at more recent cases of American school districts banning the supposedly satanic Harry Potter. Immersion in JK Rowling’s retro wizard-school world is big business, despite its frustratingly lazy inconsistencies (I’ve lost count of the number of times I have heard earnest 20-year-olds explaining away the holes in her plotting and rules of magic). For those unable to get to Universal Studios’ Harry Potter World in Florida, Warner Brothers is starting tours of the HP sets at Leavesden Studios in Hertfordshire from April.

But that mass-market example aside, a purer form of a fantasy universe is accessible on almost every major city high street. Games Workshop is a quiet British success story. It makes models in a factory in Nottingham for a fantasy table-top gaming universe called Warhammer 40,000 (set in the 41st millennium), as well as Warhammer – an older, more traditional elves and dwarf version. And it sells them for lots of money. Half-year profits to the end of November were up 40 per cent to £9.5m and turnover rose by five per cent to £62.7m. Seventy per cent of sales are to customers abroad, mainly in North America, Japan, Germany, France and Spain.

Its owners don’t advertise. They don’t do media interviews. Hobbyists come to play weekend tournaments in a massive gaming hall. Its low-techness is its charm. The passion is in the detail: beautiful artwork and detailed imagined worlds. Parents paying for their children’s hobby do gasp at some of the hefty prices for the models and accessories, but the shop staff can bring cripplingly shy young teenagers out of their shell with the enthus-iasm of a shared world.

The escape it provides is not new. In Billy Liar (pictured) the eponymous hero lives in a fantasy world of epic scale. In the film he and Julie Christie’s character dream of building a secret model version of it in their attic. Seeing the film again recently and watching my son and his friends playing table-top games, it struck me that it is the sense of control and enriched imagining that appeals first to adolescents.

If you’re lucky you get to grow up and make a living out of that imagination. Researching Warhammer 40K I was struck by the number of 20, 30 and 40-somethings for whom table-top fantasy gaming was a crucial rite of passage on the path to a career in the creative industries – journalism, animation, film-making or graphic novels. Witness, for instance, X-Men comics writer Kieron Gillen, or the dating and sex columnist, Andy Jones (who, incidentally, shatters the most common slur hurled at gaming geeks).

I can't help thinking the Bronte sisters would have been great Warhammer enthusiasts. As children, in the rigidly controlled confines of the Haworth parsonage, they created the fantasy worlds of Angria and Gondal, about which they wrote detailed stories. They imagined characters and adventures for a set of toy soldiers given to their brother, Branwell. I like to imagine Anne playing the Sisters of Battle (zealot warrior nuns with heavy weaponry).

At a time when young people are more than ever under pressure – whether for qualifications whose value is constantly tinkered with by politicians and profit-making exam boards, or for finding jobs and status in a time of shockingly high youth unemployment – the temporary escape from a bleak reality seems more valuable than ever.

Last year I watched the lame end of the Harry Potter saga in open-mouthed horror. Harry, Hermione and their chums have lost countless friends and loved ones in their battle against evil. But unlike the epic world of Warhammer 40K, where planets and dynasties are at stake, the final proof of Harry’s ‘triumph’ is turning up at platform nine and three-quarters a middle-aged, middle-class home owner with a job who is able to afford to have kids of his own. Now that really is a fantasy.




Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:56:52


Post by: Electro


Do the hobby a favour. Go on there and report a few of the realy offensive comments (about smelly nerds, gamers being loosers etc etc.). I have reported 5 and every single one has been removed. I'm not wanting to censor these people, but they clearly know nothing and some kids are going to get home tonight, be very excitted that the BBC is covering there hobby and be very upset thinking that the world views them this way. Especaly the ones who have sufferd from bullying because of their hobby.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:59:21


Post by: Ratius


but the shop staff can bring cripplingly shy young teenagers out of their shell with the enthus-iasm of a shared world.


What a beautiful line.
Im not sure its true in all cases but the sentiment behind it is terrific.
Kudos.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 14:59:49


Post by: mattyrm


I like how the UK still makes up for 30% of all sales.

Our nation is still king of the nerd, and I think that is a good thing rather than a bad. I prefer the company of table top gamers to football hooligans anyway.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:06:20


Post by: ceorron


Actually I think Neocron is a good name. Really good, literally meaning new time. Great misspelling BBC I expected no less.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:25:36


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


mattyrm wrote: I like how the UK still makes up for 30% of all sales.

Our nation is still king of the nerd,


Indeed, Blighty has always been mighty powerful with Boffins.






I bet at least one of the above has wargamed... (perhaps Brian May from Queen has taught his chum Sir Patrick... He does look like an inquisitor).



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:26:57


Post by: AustonT


I love that there's a picture with the caption "women and girls do play" and no women, or girls in the picture.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:31:16


Post by: mattyrm


AustonT wrote:I love that there's a picture with the caption "women and girls do play" and no women, or girls in the picture.


I have only met one girl in a GW, and she had teeth like a witch doctors necklace. Maybe they didnt picture any because they look like men?

And I'm only kidding before the militant women on dakka start busting my balls.

Well, about the fact that all female wargamers are ugly, im sure this isnt the case.

I was being honest about the teeth though.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:43:35


Post by: blood reaper


God.....

Honestly, the media makes anyone who plays war-games look like non-sociable, timid and weak and too afraid to do anything else, playing these games does require social interaction. Its a game where you do play face to face with others and can play a fun game instead of screaming down a microphone "GTFO NOOBZ!" or "Your mom! LOLOLOLOL".


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:45:19


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


My missus plays and she's beautiful. I also knew four attractive women who played in Bristol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
blood reaper wrote:God.....

Honestly, the media makes anyone who plays war-games look like non-sociable, timid and weak and too afraid to do anything else,


Just consider matty, he's a quiet little wallflower.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:47:51


Post by: Sonophos


olympia wrote:I'm sure everyone here knows what condescending means.


Perhaps you should define it for the dakkanaughts that are harder of thinking.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:48:22


Post by: Velour_Fog


MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Just consider matty, he's a quiet little wallflower.


... that could kill you in .1 of a second.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:54:01


Post by: ArbeitsSchu


Its a mainstream media article about a niche interest that isn't screaming THIS MAKES YOU RAPE AND KILL. Despite all the killing and raping inherent in the background. I'd say on the whole its a positive.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 15:54:13


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


Skarwael wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Just consider matty, he's a quiet little wallflower.


... that could kill you in .1 of a second.


He's a squaddie, not Jack Bauer...


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 16:04:23


Post by: Joey


The ironic thing about everyone complaining about how condescending the article was is that they sound like a 14 year old girl trying to sound like a grown-up. I didn't find the article condescending at all.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 16:19:34


Post by: Grimtuff


MeanGreenStompa wrote:
mattyrm wrote: I like how the UK still makes up for 30% of all sales.

Our nation is still king of the nerd,


Indeed, Blighty has always been mighty powerful with Boffins.






I bet at least one of the above has wargamed... (perhaps Brian May from Queen has taught his chum Sir Patrick... He does look like an inquisitor).








Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 16:40:26


Post by: mattyrm


MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Skarwael wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Just consider matty, he's a quiet little wallflower.


... that could kill you in .1 of a second.


He's a squaddie, not Jack Bauer...


Hey I'm not a squaddie... Comparing Royal Marine Commandos to Squaddies is like comparing Pigeons to Peregrine Falcons!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joey wrote:The ironic thing about everyone complaining about how condescending the article was is that they sound like a 14 year old girl trying to sound like a grown-up. I didn't find the article condescending at all.


That is true, I didn't find it even remotely offensive. It was an amusing article, and neither of the blokes in the video had neck beards!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 16:45:45


Post by: Medium of Death


I love the 'some gamers feel exploited' bit.

GW - Merciless tyrants that force you to play their game and buy their product.

If only I hadn't agreed to that soul pact!




Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 16:57:28


Post by: AustonT


mattyrm wrote:
AustonT wrote:I love that there's a picture with the caption "women and girls do play" and no women, or girls in the picture.


I have only met one girl in a GW, and she had teeth like a witch doctors necklace. Maybe they didnt picture any because they look like men?

And I'm only kidding before the militant women on dakka start busting my balls.

Well, about the fact that all female wargamers are ugly, im sure this isnt the case.

I was being honest about the teeth though.

I've seen maybe a handful of women playing 40k, of them maybe one of them was attractive enough to feth...once, and never call.

mattyrm wrote:
That is true, I didn't find it even remotely offensive. It was an amusing article, and neither of the blokes in the video had neck beards!

Neckbeards are underrated.





Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 17:00:36


Post by: Joey


AustonT wrote:
mattyrm wrote:
AustonT wrote:I love that there's a picture with the caption "women and girls do play" and no women, or girls in the picture.


I have only met one girl in a GW, and she had teeth like a witch doctors necklace. Maybe they didnt picture any because they look like men?

And I'm only kidding before the militant women on dakka start busting my balls.

Well, about the fact that all female wargamers are ugly, im sure this isnt the case.

I was being honest about the teeth though.

I've seen maybe a handful of women playing 40k, of them maybe one of them was attractive enough to feth...once, and never call.

Girls who wargame aren't really less attractive than any other girls. They dress less flashily, so men take less notice, but I wouldn't say on average they were any less attractive.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 17:08:19


Post by: swampyturtle


Having read the article i have to say, its decent enough that i thought about posting it on facebook for about .01 of a sec before i decided i dont need everyone in the world on my "friends" list knowing i game. Im not ashemed of my hobby and those who know me know that it doesnt consume my life. I just have to remember not everyone is accepting of it.

anyway, I think the video really showed that , Yes wargamers can be just average men and woman whom like to game. I can say for a fact that wargaming brought me out of my shell in high school and helped me to gain social skills. Ive seen it at work with another of my buddies too.

Overall its a 8.5 / 10 article but i wouldnt give it anymore than that.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 17:13:46


Post by: Grimtuff


Joey wrote:
AustonT wrote:
mattyrm wrote:
AustonT wrote:I love that there's a picture with the caption "women and girls do play" and no women, or girls in the picture.


I have only met one girl in a GW, and she had teeth like a witch doctors necklace. Maybe they didnt picture any because they look like men?

And I'm only kidding before the militant women on dakka start busting my balls.

Well, about the fact that all female wargamers are ugly, im sure this isnt the case.

I was being honest about the teeth though.

I've seen maybe a handful of women playing 40k, of them maybe one of them was attractive enough to feth...once, and never call.

Girls who wargame aren't really less attractive than any other girls. They dress less flashily, so men take less notice, but I wouldn't say on average they were any less attractive.


A friend of mine refers to them as Geegees. In both being an acronym for gamer girls and an observation of (at least with the ones he's met) their horselike appearance.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 17:28:33


Post by: MightyGodzilla


Most of the comments I looked at under the article were fairly positive and I think that's the most important part. 677 replies when I was looking, that's a lot, considering the obscurity of the subject - and there were alot of comments by obvious passerbys (read not a "hobby" fanatic) that were positive as well. I was inclined to chime in a little myself, but I'm too lazy to set up a BBC ID. It's really too bad she didn't do any sort of in depth research before sending the article to print. The awesome painting aspect of the hobby is one that's kept me here all these years.

BTW - Don't feminists hate wargamers? Think of us (blanketly) as little boys with little toys? I don't think that the article was that snide in tone. Maybe just people being a little oversensitive to an article title that was obviously meant to draw you in. She even tried to get GW execs to comment on price gouging....LOVE IT. Here's a pic of the author. ^_^
Spoiler:


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 17:40:12


Post by: kronk


It seems that the title was changed to "Why do adults..."


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:08:32


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


Thought the name was familiar, she used to present Channel 4 news.

So, according to the other article she wrote, for Big Issue, as posted here by Reds8n, she views wargaming positively. So, an intelligent, attractive and successful woman thinks this is a good hobby. Her article in no way attacked what we do.



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:11:16


Post by: kronk


I thought it was in interesting read. Not that enlightening. More of a fluff piece.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:18:51


Post by: Agamemnon2


AustonT wrote:
I've seen maybe a handful of women playing 40k, of them maybe one of them was attractive enough to feth...once, and never call.

Really. Could we have less of this kind of figurative dick-waving. Some of us actually balk at being associated with sophomoric bullcrap masquerading as "humor". It's sexist, lowbrow and brings wargaming as a hobby into disrepute.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:21:38


Post by: Jstncloud


Ratius wrote:
but the shop staff can bring cripplingly shy young teenagers out of their shell with the enthus-iasm of a shared world.


What a beautiful line.
Im not sure its true in all cases but the sentiment behind it is terrific.
Kudos.


I'd have to agree, and this is why I think that more hobby shops should be more passionate. Our FLGS in my area acts like he could care less and does nothing to promote anything the only thing he does do is provide 'one' 4x8 table for 'everyone' (Card Games, Heroclix, Warhammer) to use, and that is obviously not enough for those games, and he has space, he just does not care about the gaming.

Now being able to walk into a shop, talk with the staff/owner about the games, get inspired, try something new, and feel welcomed/comfortable, that to me is what is appealing about getting out of the house to be social with this hobby.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:46:48


Post by: Dysartes


Agamemnon2 wrote:
AustonT wrote:
I've seen maybe a handful of women playing 40k, of them maybe one of them was attractive enough to feth...once, and never call.

Really. Could we have less of this kind of figurative dick-waving. Some of us actually balk at being associated with sophomoric bullcrap masquerading as "humor". It's sexist, lowbrow and brings wargaming as a hobby into disrepute.


Cue the standing ovation for Agamemnon2, please...

mattyrm wrote: Hey I'm not a squaddie... Comparing Royal Marine Commandos to Squaddies is like comparing Pigeons to Peregrine Falcons!


So, following you comparison as presented, RMCs are pigeons?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:49:43


Post by: mattyrm


Dysartes wrote:

mattyrm wrote: Hey I'm not a squaddie... Comparing Royal Marine Commandos to Squaddies is like comparing Pigeons to Peregrine Falcons!


So, following you comparison as presented, RMCs are pigeons?


Well caught...

You know what I meant!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:50:37


Post by: notprop


Agamemnon2 wrote:
AustonT wrote:
I've seen maybe a handful of women playing 40k, of them maybe one of them was attractive enough to feth...once, and never call.

Really. Could we have less of this kind of figurative dick-waving. Some of us actually balk at being associated with sophomoric bullcrap masquerading as "humor". It's sexist, lowbrow and brings wargaming as a hobby into disrepute.


I'm here! Did somebody say lowbrow?

Lighten up Agee ffs.

Anyway overall I'm liking the reaction to this quite positive article and the responses may well see some more I depth reporting on GW practice, which would be enlightening.

To those detractors that commented there I found the real nerds today, three blokes on camp chairs outside of the Apple store on Regents Street. They've been there for days and will be there for a few more. I hope it doesn't rain (too much!).


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:52:52


Post by: mattyrm


Agamemnon2 wrote:
Really. Could we have less of this kind of figurative dick-waving. Some of us actually balk at being associated with sophomoric bullcrap masquerading as "humor". It's sexist, lowbrow and brings wargaming as a hobby into disrepute.


Ah come on.. it's sexist obviously, and it's sometimes low brow, but there's no need to get your knickers in a twist over it. Carry on Films are sexist and lowbrow, but they still get the occasional chuckle. You don't have to be offended by everything. If you find crude sexist humour unfunny, feel free not to laugh.

And as for this bit...

Agamemnon2 wrote:.. brings wargaming as a hobby into disrepute.


Uuh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit, notprop beat me to the punch.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 18:57:59


Post by: Howard A Treesong


I've known quite a few attractive female gamers. Not usually in GW though, but Magic and D&D and other games certainly.

I'd like to know how many making comments about the unattractive sorts of girls that apparently go to GW currently have or have ever had a serious relationship. It's my observation that people who make a point of saying things like "I'd do her, but only once, hurr hurr" probably feel they have something to prove because they spend most of their time in their own company.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 19:03:26


Post by: LooT


I don't often go to GW (although thats not out of choice, I'll be fethed if I'm going to spend all of my money on £10 bus fare for an hour trip instead of spending it on five minutes in a GW buying my precious man dollies), but the girls and 'wimmin' that I see in there are not usually unattractive, and most recently, one that I saw was practically jumping with glee at her Tyranid purchases! Outnumbered by men my ass... they got enough enthusiasm for 20 of us... chaps, we're outnumbered


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 19:15:10


Post by: MightyGodzilla


mattyrm wrote:
Dysartes wrote:

mattyrm wrote: Hey I'm not a squaddie... Comparing Royal Marine Commandos to Squaddies is like comparing Pigeons to Peregrine Falcons!


So, following you comparison as presented, RMCs are pigeons?


Well caught...

You know what I meant!
Give him 5 or 6 years and he'll be Jack Bauer calibre.....or is it Bond? Matty Bond.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 19:22:00


Post by: AustonT


Agamemnon2 wrote:
AustonT wrote:
I've seen maybe a handful of women playing 40k, of them maybe one of them was attractive enough to feth...once, and never call.

Really. Could we have less of this kind of figurative dick-waving. Some of us actually balk at being associated with sophomoric bullcrap masquerading as "humor". It's sexist, lowbrow and brings wargaming as a hobby into disrepute.

Penis envy, even figuratively, is an ugly quality. Also you seem to think sexist and lowbrow are insults, to whit I respond:
/dick wave.

Edit: mild content change.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 19:51:56


Post by: jbunny


mattyrm wrote: I have only met one girl in a GW, and she had teeth like a witch doctors necklace.


I thought that is how all British peoples teeth looked.



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 19:56:56


Post by: LooT


jbunny wrote:
mattyrm wrote: I have only met one girl in a GW, and she had teeth like a witch doctors necklace.


I thought that is how all British peoples teeth looked.



OOOOOOOHHHH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!

Darn ye Americans and your superior dental care......


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 20:00:04


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


Lord of Timbraxia wrote:
jbunny wrote:
mattyrm wrote: I have only met one girl in a GW, and she had teeth like a witch doctors necklace.


I thought that is how all British peoples teeth looked.



OOOOOOOHHHH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!

Darn ye Americans and your superior dental care......


Having now worked in US retail for the past year and meeting the great American public on a day to day basis... This is a massive lie. Brits, with our 'evil socialist' national healthcare dental access for all, have dramatically better dentistry...





Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 20:04:34


Post by: Rayvon


I have a freind that claims alot of American film and TV stars actually have their teeth bleached white by a laser machine, is this true ?
I always wonder as nearly everyone i know has good teeth and none of them are shiny white, ts just not natural !


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 20:06:09


Post by: notprop


And death Panels, don't forget our world class free at the point of use death panels.

All paid for by the state - gratis. Suckers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rayvon wrote:I have a freind that claims alot of American film and TV stars actually have their teeth bleached white by a laser machine, is this true ?
I always wonder as nearly everyone i know has good teeth and none of them are shiny white, ts just not natural !


You can get that done at the Bluewater and Lakeside shopping centres near me.

The death panels won't sign off on that though, oh no. This socialism has its drawbacks, man we're suckers!

That said my nashers are said to be the equal of Pamela Anderson, so swings and roundabouts really.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 20:15:14


Post by: Hyd


The title of the first article annoyed me at first, but it's clearly tongue-in-cheek, not demeaning. It's a good descriptive paper for those non familiar with the matter, which can only be a good thing. That's the kind of journalism standards I know I can expect from dem Brits

I liked the column in p.3 as well. Escapism is a healthy way to cope with pressure and dissatisfaction if done moderately*, and this particular brand helps connect people. I also think numbers and coins help give the subject credibility. In the same vein, I sure was suprised to see a special report on videogames in The Economist (tell ya, I like dem tea drinkers ), but when you see the digits, it's impressive.

*Never forget, the enemy is excess. Beware of She Who Thirsts !


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 20:23:34


Post by: KamikazeCanuck


I didn't really get anything condescending from the article. In fact I was impressed by her correct identifications of the factions (man-sized anthropomorphic rats) made me laugh.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 20:33:01


Post by: MightyGodzilla


Rayvon wrote:I have a freind that claims alot of American film and TV stars actually have their teeth bleached white by a laser machine, is this true ?
I always wonder as nearly everyone i know has good teeth and none of them are shiny white, ts just not natural !


Lol, you don't bleach your teeth with a laser. But yeah, you can go to the dentists office for a bleach treatment or do it at home with a kit. Some people I know use an airbrush and white paint. But firing a laser into your pie hole.....that ain't safe!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 21:54:12


Post by: Centurionpainting


Eiríkr wrote:I sincerely wish that the BBC had taken their cameras in store, perhaps. They chose some rather poorly painted models, in some chap's back room. Alas! The awesomeness that could have been created were the BBC readership shown Marines ripping apart Tyranids in 'Eavy Metal standards!


Agreed. That guy spoke for all of us basically; at least hire someone to paint your stuff to a decent standard.



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 22:56:07


Post by: notprop


To be fair I'm guessing when someone from the BBC says "hey can I put you/your army on the BBC?" you don't say "nah I'm still carrying a bit of holiday weight and my best army is at the menders".

You say "defo, now will this be the main news at 9 or 10pm on BBC1 as I have to call my mum to record it. What do you mean the Internet?"


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 23:19:00


Post by: Albatross


mattyrm wrote: I like how the UK still makes up for 30% of all sales.

Our nation is still king of the nerd, and I think that is a good thing rather than a bad. I prefer the company of table top gamers to football hooligans anyway.


I prefer hooligans, which is why I mainly wargame with you!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 23:23:58


Post by: Hyd


MightyGodzilla wrote:Lol, you don't bleach your teeth with a laser. But yeah, you can go to the dentists office for a bleach treatment or do it at home with a kit. Some people I know use an airbrush and white paint. But firing a laser into your pie hole.....that ain't safe!
Wait, you don't use lasers, but paint is a-ok ?


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/13 23:27:20


Post by: notprop


I think they actually use UV light, same as the sun bleaches paint/wood.

As I say I look like Pammy when I'm happy, or so I'm told.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 06:31:04


Post by: MightyGodzilla


Lol, I was just joking about the white paint!!!


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 09:22:07


Post by: reds8n


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-&-entertainment/girls-celebrate-anniversary-of-warhammer-40,000-201203145006/

WOMEN are celebrating the science fiction-themed tabletop wargame that has been the default female entertainment of the last 25 years.

Created in 1987, Warhammer 40,000's mixture of realistic turns-based strategy gaming and a dystopian sci-fi universe was an instant hit with millions of women, many of whom became self-confessed obsessives.

Teacher Emma Bradford, who was excitedly buying 25th anniversary limited edition lead figures at her local Games Workshop, said: “A lot of people say this, but there's something about Warhammer games that just resonates with my vagina.

"I play with an Imperial Guard army, my best friend Mandy uses Tyranids who, as all ladies know, are a race of quasi-reptilian aliens whose voracious appetite for bio-mass has propelled them into conflict with the Imperium.

"We get together for a skirmish every Wednesday. Once in a while we get all the girls together for a major campaign which takes up to four days which is just so much fun.

"Afterwards we like to post the statistics on the internet."

Personal trainer Nikki Hollis said: "Girls loving Warhammer 40K is such a cliché, but like many stereotypes there's a large element of truth.

"The best thing about 'the hobby', as we women refer to it, is painting the little lead figures, or 'miniatures' as they're properly called.

"I love doing that classic girl thing of being of putting on pyjamas, getting under a load of duvets and painting intricate banners on a Chaos Eldar battalion."

She added: "War gaming drives my boyfriend nuts, he just wants to talk about his emotions and drink hot chocolate."

Warhammer 40,000 spin-offs includes a successful series of novels by sci-fi-strategy-chick-lit author Helen Fielding about a neurotic young space marine called Nicola and a range of organic face creams named after different types of space weaponry.




Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 09:26:44


Post by: Ratius




Spoiler:
(Lets see who falls for this one Red).


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 09:31:05


Post by: thenoobbomb


reds8n wrote:http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-&-entertainment/girls-celebrate-anniversary-of-warhammer-40,000-201203145006/

WOMEN are celebrating the science fiction-themed tabletop wargame that has been the default female entertainment of the last 25 years.

Created in 1987, Warhammer 40,000's mixture of realistic turns-based strategy gaming and a dystopian sci-fi universe was an instant hit with millions of women, many of whom became self-confessed obsessives.

Teacher Emma Bradford, who was excitedly buying 25th anniversary limited edition lead figures at her local Games Workshop, said: “A lot of people say this, but there's something about Warhammer games that just resonates with my vagina.
.



Oh my god.
*runs in terror away*


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 10:45:33


Post by: Graphite


The Daily Mash has previously reported on the serious effects that last summer's riots and looting had on several GWs...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/looters-return-stuff-to-games-workshop-201108124191/



Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 10:48:04


Post by: Ratius


That is absolutely brilliant stuff


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 10:48:53


Post by: Velour_Fog


reds8n wrote:http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-&-entertainment/girls-celebrate-anniversary-of-warhammer-40,000-201203145006/


Teacher Emma Bradford, who was excitedly buying 25th anniversary limited edition lead figures at her local Games Workshop...




If only...


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 11:13:56


Post by: Electro



Warhammer 40,000 spin-offs includes a successful series of novels by sci-fi-strategy-chick-lit author Helen Fielding about a neurotic young space marine called Nicola and a range of organic face creams named after different types of space weaponry.


To be fair the addition of the threat of a bolter round to the face for the male lead would probably make most "chick flicks" allot better. I mean, who hasn't thought that the emperors wrath unleashed on Hugh Grant in the middle of Notting Hill, or a Necron Tomb opening up in the middle of Bridget Jones would have been a masive improvement.


Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3 @ 2012/03/14 13:42:06


Post by: Hyd


MightyGodzilla wrote:Lol, I was just joking about the white paint!!!
Talk about failing a Spot humour check Though I got a bonus on the next one a few posts later.
In my defense, nothing sounds too crazy for America !