like the name says, Bolter, Lasgun, Fleshborer, etc.

Pulse Rifle hands down. Too bad the guys shooting are the worst troops in the game.

Easily the Pulse Rifle.

The Gauss weapons and GK Stormbolter are contenders, but they're standard for elites (20+points).

What's the stats for a pulse rifle? Tyranid Warriors come with the devourer which is 18" s4 ap - assault 3.

broodstar wrote:What's the stats for a pulse rifle? Tyranid Warriors come with the devourer which is 18" s4 ap - assault 3.

30" s5 ap5 Rapid Fire

you can also take the carbine version which is the same thing only 18" range and is pinning!

devourer doesn't have enough range to make it viable when compared to others.

bmoleski wrote:

broodstar wrote:What's the stats for a pulse rifle? Tyranid Warriors come with the devourer which is 18" s4 ap - assault 3.

30" s5 ap5 Rapid Fire

you can also take the carbine version which is the same thing only 18" range and is pinning!

devourer doesn't have enough range to make it viable when compared to others.

The Carbine is also an assault weapon.

The Devourer has the same range as the Carbine, which you appear to like. So complaining about its range is odd. Range isn't a huge factor though when you can throw 20 Termagants with Devourers in a pod, drop them behind the enemy and unload 60 S4 shots into a vulnerable backline unit.

Going based off of the fluff, I would have to say lasgun. Sure, it doesn't really pack a punch, but it's really reliable. If you run out of ammo, just throw your ammo pouch in the fire and BAM! More ammo!

bmoleski wrote:Pulse Rifle hands down. Too bad the guys shooting are the worst troops in the game.

Well hell if the weapon is that good what are Tau complaining about, you're guys are BS 3? With a rifle like that at BS 4 why would people SM? It would take SM 2 turns to begin opening up on you, and you glance their Rhino on a 6. The reason Tau are BS 3 is a balance issue. People talk like Tyranids are broke because we don't have EW anymore, We have 6 T 6 wounds! That is going to take a lot of heavy weapons to deal with.

the best gun in our world is considered the ak47... because its immortal, never jams, and easily mastered and mass produced and has decent accuracy and still packs enough of a punch.

The 40k equivalent is the lasgun. its like an ak47 with infinite ammo.

The most powerful infantry weapon is the pulse rifle. That doesnt mean it's the best.

Agreed.

broodstar wrote:

bmoleski wrote:Pulse Rifle hands down. Too bad the guys shooting are the worst troops in the game.

Well hell if the weapon is that good what are Tau complaining about, you're guys are BS 3? With a rifle like that at BS 4 why would people SM? It would take SM 2 turns to begin opening up on you, and you glance their Rhino on a 6. The reason Tau are BS 3 is a balance issue. People talk like Tyranids are broke because we don't have EW anymore, We have 6 T 6 wounds! That is going to take a lot of heavy weapons to deal with.

Their weapon is great, sure, but it doesn't make up for the Fire Warriors short comings. And as a fellow nid player, I agree that t6 and w6 more than makes up for no EW.

Pulse. Though I am kinda biased.

OK, what leads you to believe that Fire Warriors are broken?

I never said they were broken.

Does "warp fire" count as a weapon? 18' s4, ap4, assault 3

That was toward bmoleski, sorry you relied before me.


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sudojoe wrote:Does "warp fire" count as a weapon? 18' s4, ap4, assault 3

That's a psychic power, right? No, we're talking standard issue troop rifles.

They have zero survivability, meaning objective games are a pain. Their amazing rifles are useless if you mechanize your army unless you waste movements getting in and out of your fish, they can't stand up to anything outside of grots in melee, and they cost too much IMO. I used to play Tau. It was my favorite army, but they just don't cut it in 5th edition.

broodstar wrote:People talk like Tyranids are broke because we don't have EW anymore, We have 6 T 6 wounds! That is going to take a lot of heavy weapons to deal with.

People take a lot of heavy weapons anyway to deal with mechanised armies. If you're not bringing enough heavy firepower to kill a T6, 6W, 3+ save monstrous creature in one turn, you really are doing it wrong. All of the Tyranid MC's can be downed in a single turn due to this, with the exception of the Tyrannofex, which mostly just escapes missile spam with its 2+ save. That's not even considering JoTWW and Grey Knight massed force weapons.

If you think your monstrous creatures are in any way survivable against a halfway decent list, you're not playing people with halfway decent lists.

Game: Pulse Rifle
Fluff: Lasgun

bmoleski wrote:They have zero survivability, meaning objective games are a pain. Their amazing rifles are useless if you mechanize your army unless you waste movements getting in and out of your fish, they can't stand up to anything outside of grots in melee, and they cost too much IMO. I used to play Tau. It was my favorite army, but they just don't cut it in 5th edition.

Tau IMO is the perfect army for a "Gun Tower," pick a building and load it up with as many Broadsides, Crisis Suits, Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, and Stealth Suits as possible (maybe a fish or 2 to reach out and grab objectives after you've broken the enemies back). I'll tell you from exp. Tau and Tyranid make an awesome team for 2v2, one is strong where one is weak.

-Loki- wrote:

broodstar wrote:People talk like Tyranids are broke because we don't have EW anymore, We have 6 T 6 wounds! That is going to take a lot of heavy weapons to deal with.

People take a lot of heavy weapons anyway to deal with mechanised armies. If you're not bringing enough heavy firepower to kill a T6, 6W, 3+ save monstrous creature in one turn, you really are doing it wrong. All of the Tyranid MC's can be downed in a single turn due to this, with the exception of the Tyrannofex, which mostly just escapes missile spam with its 2+ save. That's not even considering JoTWW and Grey Knight massed force weapons.

If you think your monstrous creatures are in any way survivable against a halfway decent list, you're not playing people with halfway decent lists.

That's why you gotta milk the cover saves. Yeah it's harder to get a monstrous creature into cover, but it's not THAT hard with 5th ed rules. My buddy started playing SW and of course he spammed Long Fangs with lascannons and Missile Launchers (he doesn't do that in casual games as much lol) and all I did was stick to cover. And if there isn't any, well that's why I field Venomthropes. GASP!!!! Yeah I field Venomthropes lol. But their cover save thing makes MC so much more survivable, plus you can use em to keep your 30 model horde of gaunts in cover too.

bmoleski wrote:They have zero survivability, meaning objective games are a pain. Their amazing rifles are useless if you mechanize your army unless you waste movements getting in and out of your fish, they can't stand up to anything outside of grots in melee, and they cost too much IMO. I used to play Tau. It was my favorite army, but they just don't cut it in 5th edition.

They have 4+ saves on a T3 base, the only thing that's an issue with them is the fact that 5th edition heavily favors metal bawkses, and they just now need a points reduction.

bmoleski wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

broodstar wrote:People talk like Tyranids are broke because we don't have EW anymore, We have 6 T 6 wounds! That is going to take a lot of heavy weapons to deal with.

People take a lot of heavy weapons anyway to deal with mechanised armies. If you're not bringing enough heavy firepower to kill a T6, 6W, 3+ save monstrous creature in one turn, you really are doing it wrong. All of the Tyranid MC's can be downed in a single turn due to this, with the exception of the Tyrannofex, which mostly just escapes missile spam with its 2+ save. That's not even considering JoTWW and Grey Knight massed force weapons.

If you think your monstrous creatures are in any way survivable against a halfway decent list, you're not playing people with halfway decent lists.

That's why you gotta milk the cover saves. Yeah it's harder to get a monstrous creature into cover, but it's not THAT hard with 5th ed rules. My buddy started playing SW and of course he spammed Long Fangs with lascannons and Missile Launchers (he doesn't do that in casual games as much lol) and all I did was stick to cover. And if there isn't any, well that's why I field Venomthropes. GASP!!!! Yeah I field Venomthropes lol. But their cover save thing makes MC so much more survivable, plus you can use em to keep your 30 model horde of gaunts in cover too.

While I agree it's easy to get cover for Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants, good luck 50% obscuring Trygons, Tervigons and Tyrannofexes.

Venomthropes, while I love 'em, will get wasted turn 1 unless your opponent is an idiot. All it takes is 1 bored missile launcher.

-Loki- wrote:

broodstar wrote:People talk like Tyranids are broke because we don't have EW anymore, We have 6 T 6 wounds! That is going to take a lot of heavy weapons to deal with.

People take a lot of heavy weapons anyway to deal with mechanised armies. If you're not bringing enough heavy firepower to kill a T6, 6W, 3+ save monstrous creature in one turn, you really are doing it wrong. All of the Tyranid MC's can be downed in a single turn due to this, with the exception of the Tyrannofex, which mostly just escapes missile spam with its 2+ save. That's not even considering JoTWW and Grey Knight massed force weapons.

If you think your monstrous creatures are in any way survivable against a halfway decent list, you're not playing people with halfway decent lists.

At my store there are: 2 Tyranid, 1 Ork, 2 Imperial Guard, 1 Tau, 1 Eldar (refuses to play me), 1 Space Wolf, 3 Grey Knights, 1 Blood Angel, 1 Black Templar, 1 Salamander (refuses to play me), 1 Ultra Marines, 1 Imperial fist, 1 Raven Guard, 3 Chaos Space Marines.

I've had a lot of practice in anti-space marine tactics, I know to go after heavy weapons teams first. The SW guy prefers to use living lightning over jaw and the GK, I've never really paid too much attention to their halberds as much as much as their s7 autocannons.

In terms of Reliabilty I reckon the lasgun would be at the top of the list. but in terms of power I am stuck in a Decision of choosing either the Necron Gauss Flayer or the Pluse rifle

If we include warpfire (horrors ftw. ), then I would say that.

Nothing is more reliable than a magic....whatever the hell a Horror is throwing fireballs from it's hands.

Otherwise, it's like everyone else has been saying, Fluff: Lasgun, TT: Pulse Rifle

The storm bolter. Relatively the same range as the pulse rifle (24" + movement), fires two shots at all ranges, and can fire on the move. Though I guess it's not technically a rifle.

That's a good one, is the Stormbolter a standard issue to any troops in any codex?

Well if we want to get technical, the wouldn't be a rifle as much as a CQB.

broodstar wrote:That's a good one, is the Stormbolter a standard issue to any troops in any codex?

Grey Knights. Every Grey Knight squad has Storm Bolters standard. Henchmen units are obviously different, though.

lasgun

broodstar wrote:At my store there are: 2 Tyranid, 1 Ork, 2 Imperial Guard, 1 Tau, 1 Eldar (refuses to play me), 1 Space Wolf, 3 Grey Knights, 1 Blood Angel, 1 Black Templar, 1 Salamander (refuses to play me), 1 Ultra Marines, 1 Imperial fist, 1 Raven Guard, 3 Chaos Space Marines.

I've had a lot of practice in anti-space marine tactics, I know to go after heavy weapons teams first. The SW guy prefers to use living lightning over jaw and the GK, I've never really paid too much attention to their halberds as much as much as their s7 autocannons.

If they're only using heavy weapon squads (ie Devastators/Havocs) no wonder they aren't killing MCs. And they aren't brining decent lists. heavy weapons should be piled into those armies, on Razorbacks, on tanks, on dreadnoughts, in regular squads, etc.

And the Guard player should be ashamed of himself if he can't take down a few MCs turn 1.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tyranids, they're still my favorite army even with the current codex. But Tyranid MCs are not in any way tough.

I'd say Tesla Immortals. 24" S5 assault 2, spawns extra hits on a 6? And they are BS4 troops? Moving and shooting 24" twice is much better than 30" rapid fire. And all the extra hits from BS4 and the 6's put fire warriors to shame.

Gauss Flayer. The ability to glance any vehicle is beyond phenomenal.

warp fire is actually not a psychic power. It's the "gun" that toop pink horrors are "equipped" with

Shoota

Its da best cos it's orkier dan da uvvers

Actually my vote would be the Eldar Pathfinder sniper rifle. Those things are all sorts of nasty

Kevlar wrote:I'd say Tesla Immortals. 24" S5 assault 2, spawns extra hits on a 6? And they are BS4 troops? Moving and shooting 24" twice is much better than 30" rapid fire. And all the extra hits from BS4 and the 6's put fire warriors to shame.

Yup this. Its called the Tesla Carbine. Its all of the above but only Assault 1 and that is more than enough. According to math hammer you can pretty much count on a number of hits equal to the number of guys shooting thanks to the extra two hits you get when you roll a 6. The fact that they are S5 on a BS4, +3 sv model is just icing on the cake.

I'm impartial to the gauss flayer (im biased , i know ) but glancing a vehicle with the most basic gun... while this isn't 4th edition where it could destroy a vehicle, a small 5 man squad of warriors in rapid fire range can tie up a vehicle for the entire game

Still can vape vehicles, but not as well as the glory days (or should that be gory days ) of Necrogroovies.

Open topped vehicles can wreck from a glance, as my DE and Orks know only too well...

broodstar wrote:That was toward bmoleski, sorry you relied before me.


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sudojoe wrote:Does "warp fire" count as a weapon? 18' s4, ap4, assault 3

That's a psychic power, right? No, we're talking standard issue troop rifles.

No its not a psychic power. Its the Pink Horrors shooting attack... although tis not a rifle, so no it cant be used for this discussion... even tho it ROX

-Loki- wrote:

broodstar wrote:At my store there are: 2 Tyranid, 1 Ork, 2 Imperial Guard, 1 Tau, 1 Eldar (refuses to play me), 1 Space Wolf, 3 Grey Knights, 1 Blood Angel, 1 Black Templar, 1 Salamander (refuses to play me), 1 Ultra Marines, 1 Imperial fist, 1 Raven Guard, 3 Chaos Space Marines.

I've had a lot of practice in anti-space marine tactics, I know to go after heavy weapons teams first. The SW guy prefers to use living lightning over jaw and the GK, I've never really paid too much attention to their halberds as much as much as their s7 autocannons.

If they're only using heavy weapon squads (ie Devastators/Havocs) no wonder they aren't killing MCs. And they aren't brining decent lists. heavy weapons should be piled into those armies, on Razorbacks, on tanks, on dreadnoughts, in regular squads, etc.

And the Guard player should be ashamed of himself if he can't take down a few MCs turn 1.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tyranids, they're still my favorite army even with the current codex. But Tyranid MCs are not in any way tough.

Well they do, for example: the Ultra Marines guy brings a Captain, Chaplain (jump pack), Tacs (combat squaded with the heavy weapon up in a build and others in Razorbacks), Sternguard, Assaults, Devastators, and Predators. I think it's that his tactics suck, he does maximize kill lanes but I don't think he expects me to come THROUGH buildings.

I have a story of how random the game can be. The Imperial Fists guy does gun tower, he packs a piece of terrain with 75 marines (vary defensive player). I got my Trygon into his base with 3 wounds left, and he's shooting, signam Las missed missiles missed or didn't wound, the last wound was taken by his last shot (a bolt pistol). This happened quite a few times actually. Weird things happen in the game, he had a Sergeant kill the Swarmlord yet hit Captain was kill by a Tyrannofex in CC.

Crudduce writes codexes that are powerful in the hands of the right person, Crudduce also wrote IG. Tyranids were OP in the last codex, they aren't broken they have been balanced.

2004 in World of Warcraft the rogue class was stupidly OP (I mean walking up to a guy in heavy armor and one shoting him), in 2005 every other got buffed to bring them up even with the rogue. Rogues only saw that they had a harder time killing someone else, because rogues were so OP no one bothered to "learn they're class". The people that played rogues didn't see it as everyone else being balanced to them, they only saw that they were broken, and now that to have a little more skill to beat someone else.

Why did I tell you that fable? Learn to hunt now, for when Matt Ward (Ward writes codexes that are popularly considered to be OP) gets the Tyranid contract, not only will you be able to own those other armies that stay with their army but laugh at the ones that jump from army to army following Ward.

broodstar wrote: when Matt Ward (Ward writes codexes that are popularly considered to be OP) gets the Tyranid contract, not only will you be able to own those other armies that stay with their army but laugh at the ones that jump from army to army following Ward.

Oh sweet monkey cakes please don't say things like "Mat Ward" and "Tyranids" in the same sentence!!! (unless it's <--that sentence)

Lasgun, not just for reliability, or ammo considerations or logistical support but because in the fluff you can mod/dial up the power on them, burns through more charge, but you live longer to need to recharge it.

Seriously in 40k fluff some lasguns have more destructive output then a bolter round... makes you wonder where the IG codex are hiding them....

Ascalam wrote:Shoota

Its da best cos it's orkier dan da uvvers

Woah, woah, woah! Da big shootas ar' clearly betta cos dem's bigga AND orkier!(I only see orks shooting them 1 handed, though, so still a pistol. Maybe snazzguns?)

-cgmckenzie

I'm surprised Splinter Rifle's havent had a mention yet. The same range/AP/type as a Boltgun but can wound anything on a 4+ regardless of toughness. Obviously it's slightly less effective VS T3, but against T4 its identical and as the targets toughness increases it just gets better and better.

cgmckenzie wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Shoota

Its da best cos it's orkier dan da uvvers

Woah, woah, woah! Da big shootas ar' clearly betta cos dem's bigga AND orkier!(I only see orks shooting them 1 handed, though, so still a pistol. Maybe snazzguns?)

-cgmckenzie

If i could take snazzgunz as basic troop guns i would

I assumed that the poll as talking about basic guns on basic troops, not upgrades/heavy support options

If those are allowed then it would have to be the beerkeg Heavy Plasma Gunz the RT ork set had, (just for awesomesauce value) or a SAG

A Sternguard bolter with special ammunition.

I'd say Guass Immortals standard firearm: Guass Blaster. S5 AP4 Rapid fire, Auto-glance on a 6 on a T5 3+/5+++(4+++ w/ rezorb) guy? Come at my gun line Nobs! (Ork Nobs)

broodstar wrote:That's a good one, is the Stormbolter a standard issue to any troops in any codex?

Well if we want to get technical, the wouldn't be a rifle as much as a CQB.

Terminators are considered troops in a couple of codecies... does that count?

Fluff: Lasgun
Game: Pulse Rifle

Fluff:
Human - Lasgun
Alien - Gauss Flayer

Game: Pulse Rifle or Gauss Flayer

Pulse Rifle in game terms, hands down.

Either:
A. The Guass Blasters S5 AP4 Rapid fire guass

OR

Warpfire on Pink Horrors (not a rifle, but ehhhh)
S4 AP4 Assault 3

The Gauss blaster is infinitely better a gun on basic troops than the gauss flayer. It gains 1 str and 1 AP value. So in terms of the gun itself it is the better of the two. The only reason why guass flayers are nice is because they are much cheaper to field as they are on a much cheaper troop choice.

Really, these are the top 3 rifles. (In no particular order)

Tau Pulse Rifle. Str 5 Ap 5 with a 30 inch range and can rapid fire. Its biggest weakness isn't in the gun itself but in the troop that carries it. However you can get those troops BS4 with the use of a marker light.

Necron Gauss Blaster. Str 5 AP 4 but 24 inches compared to the pulse rifles 30 inches AP5. I would give the edge slightly to the tau, since their range is better than an AP value that still doesn't effect marines. That is until the Gauss special rule comes into play. The ability of a basic rifle to glance a vehicle to death is a huge edge over the competition.

The last of the top 3 and honestly its here on a technicality is the Grey Knight Storm bolter. In other books the weapon is considered strong enough to be a special weapon. But the GKs field them instead of the usual marine weaponry. Str 4 Ap 5 assault 2 24inch range. Unlike the other weapons which require you to hold still unless you are rapid firing, you have a much further mobility range. Effectively giving your unit a 30 inch range to match the tau but you get twice as many shots.

The only other gun that even comes close to "top 3" material is the dark eldar splinter rifle. So lets give it an honorable mention. With no str value but always wounding on a 4+ the rifle can kill monstrous creatures just as easily as marines. The downside is of course is it makes killing smaller targets just as hard as killing anything else.

Fluff wise: the humble Lasgun. You can drop it, beat something to a pulp with it, a truck can run over it and it still works. plus its ammo is nigh infinite, just put it in a hot place and it recharges the cell.

game wise: i havn't seen all "standard issue weapons" in action enough to say.

On the tabletop? The Pulse Rifle. It can knock a lot of infantry flat on it's rear at long range, plus it's rapid fire I believe.

Fluff wise, I will go with the Lasgun. Easy to repair, cheap, nigh infinite ammo, durable, reliable and common. The only down side is it's relatively low power, but I believe it can penetrate Power Armor if aimed well. And with a scope mounted standard and low recoil, it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to hit the right spots.

It's the lasgun.

I've had a gun jam on me in a tense situation, and I've had "dead man's click" many times... Out of all the weapons of 40k, the lasgun would make the best standard issue rifle IRL.

Would have to go with the Lasgun as well for fluff reasons its just very sturdy and it is adaptable.

If one defines 'standard rifle' as default ranged weapon on a baseline-Troops choice, I'd have to say Storm Bolters since those troops choices that have them can also make them Str5.
If one defines it as the ranged weapon issued to regular line troops, (IE, not the Chamber Militant of an Ordo Majoris), pulse rifle. Let that stand as a testament as to how gakky the guys carrying pulse rifles turn out in practice.

I'm going to say the Pulse Rifle. It can take down light armor, wound Space Marines on a 3+, and it's the standard/only weapon for the baseline troops. So it doesn't get the back up of special weapons in the squad. I hate that there isn't much fluff for how reliable Tau weaponry is compared to the IG. I know you can rub the battery pack against your neckbeard and your virgin will rub off on it and give the battery an electron boner (Kidding... kinda) but that doesn't make the Pulse Rifle less reliable. I'm not aware of it breaking all the time in the fluff.

If people are going to bring up Fluff then I want to bring up it's stats in the Rogue Trader game. where a Lasgun will give you 1D10+3 damage at Pen3, the Pulse Rifle does 2D10+4 at Pen 5 (I believe I've got the numbers right.), can fire much farther than the lasgun without penelty, and can fire 4 times faster than the lasgun.

Pulse Rifle also got some gyroscopic techie stuff to make the aim steadier (and firewarriors are still bs 3 with that? what are they, orks?)

To the OP, the main problem with firewarriors is the utter lack of upgrade options. Their small arms may be really good, but a unit of firewarriors has an awful lot of gaps in its killing power with no way to remedy them. But wait, what about army synergy? Sure, but you've got to note that practically every codex that's come out since tau has both individual troops choices that can be kitted to handle most things AND army synergy, while tau has only one or the other. I'd much rather take a guard infantry platoon than a squad of firewarriors, because the firewarriors can only ever be effective against enemy troops choices and monstrous creatures (and AV10), while a guard infantry platoon can be kitted to handle anything in the game just by itself, what with the ability to take power weapons, stubborn, flamers, meltaguns, and a variety of heavy weapons, etc.

As for army-wide effectiveness, I'd probably give it to the grey knight's storm bolters. Not only are storm bolters pretty good in their own right, but if they had a worse small arm, grey knights would be pretty screwed against horde armies (unless they took a LOT of purifiers). The necron guns are also really great, but seem a lot less necessary than the storm bolter to a grey knight. Gauss and tesla weapons make a necron model good - a storm bolter rounds out the ultimate killing machine.

If fluff is taken into consideration at all, then of course its the lasgun.

Although, on second thought there is some real quality to things like shootas and lasguns in their own right.

That storm bolter costs 20 points at the cheapest. For 20 points, assuming an officer is nearby, you can throw down 12 lasgun shots to the stormbolter's 2. Per point, the lasgun is twice as effective against marines, and over twice as good against guardsmen out of cover (for nearly five times better if they do).'

Savageconvoy wrote:I'm going to say the Pulse Rifle. It can take down light armor, wound Space Marines on a 3+, and it's the standard/only weapon for the baseline troops. So it doesn't get the back up of special weapons in the squad. I hate that there isn't much fluff for how reliable Tau weaponry is compared to the IG. I know you can rub the battery pack against your neckbeard and your virgin will rub off on it and give the battery an electron boner (Kidding... kinda) but that doesn't make the Pulse Rifle less reliable. I'm not aware of it breaking all the time in the fluff.

If people are going to bring up Fluff then I want to bring up it's stats in the Rogue Trader game. where a Lasgun will give you 1D10+3 damage at Pen3, the Pulse Rifle does 2D10+4 at Pen 5 (I believe I've got the numbers right.), can fire much farther than the lasgun without penelty, and can fire 4 times faster than the lasgun.

Fluff wise you can use the lasgun to brain your foes, drag it in a swamp, cover it in sand or take a swim in the ocean with it, and at the end of the day give it a good clean and voila, it's still ready to be used the next day to actually shoot things. And in case anything gets broken on it, never mind ! Even the lowest savage in the guard would be capable of changing the parts. Thats why I consider it to be the best weapon.

Now if you meant the most powerful weapon then yes, the pulse rifle packs a punch. But that does not make it the best imo.

Pulse Rifle and Storm Bolter are my votes

I don't agree with some of the logic people are using in this thread in regards to the lasgun's reliability, personally. How is dragging it through a swamp and still being able to fire it going to help you when lasbolts bounce off the armor of 90% of the foes you'll be fighting? Being able to "bludgeon" a chaos space marine with it and not break it in the process isn't really going to help you all that much.

One could argue that a gun with better stopping power is also useless if it jams in the middle of a firefight, but I'd respond by pointing out that you very rarely ever hear about people's weapons jamming in WH40K period. Bolters are high-maintainence but in combat they almost never jam, for example. The way people are describing lasguns in here, you'd think every other type of gun was some temperamental device prone to randomly shutting down or blowing up in your face. xD I've never seen anything that gives evidence to that, though.

It's academic. A bolter or a pulse rifle might jam 1 out of a 1000 times, whereas the las gun will jam once out of a million, but I'd rather take a 1/1000 chance that my gun might jam over a 90/100 chance that my guns ammo won't even do anything to what I'm shooting at...

Just pointing out that you can beat cultists, heretics, rebels, orks (to some extent) etc. to death with lasgun. And obviously a lasbolt does nice amount of damage to these foes, which are about 90 % of what the guard will be fightinh (fluffwise ofc).

I would have to say the Combi-flamer.

Hard answer for me, but if I had to narrow it down to a few it'd be:

1) Storm bolter, (especially with psybolt? C'mon.)
2) Splinter Rifle, (O herro wraithlord, your T means nothing to me.)
3) Pulse Rifle

also for consideration, the avenger catapults with the mandatory exarch w/ blade storm is pretty deadly.

Just because the fluff doesn't explicitly say the weapons jam, doesn't mean they don't.

The British standard issue rifle jams quite often, yet in stories or films with them in, they never do.

Surely its the plasma gun. It doesn't run out of ammo, It'll kill almost anything, and it getting hot and killing you is way better then being taken captive by DE. Just saying.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Just because the fluff doesn't explicitly say the weapons jam, doesn't mean they don't.

The British standard issue rifle jams quite often, yet in stories or films with them in, they never do.

And, how does that make you feel?

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Just because the fluff doesn't explicitly say the weapons jam, doesn't mean they don't.

The British standard issue rifle jams quite often, yet in stories or films with them in, they never do.

It's not impossible for a lasgun to jam, but various fluff sources emphasize how rare this is relative to other weapons. One of the main reasons the lasgun is used, after all, is its reliability and logistical efficiency. It would be easy for the Imperium to outfit the Imeprial Guard with more powerful and exotic weapons, but the lasgun truly is one of the most efficient, reliable weapons out there, and it is quite strong enough for most purposes.

The reason that the lasgun is often disparaged is that, in 40k, Guardsmen with lasguns often have to go up against Space Marines, Necrons, and other powerful foes for whom lasguns are nonideal weapons. However, in fluff terms, such engagements represent only a rare fraction of Imperial Guard encounters. The most common enemy that the Guard has to fight are renegade/traitor/cultist humans, for whom lasguns are quite good, followed by Orks, for whom lasguns are underpowered but serviceable thanks to the general lack of armor for most Ork forces.

If I remember correctly, one of the Cain books mentions that the Tau's guns jam much more frequently than the lasguns. Also, the pulse rifle requires the use of 2 separate clips, one holding the plasma "bolts" launched by the gun, and the other serving as the power source for whatever focuses the plasma bolt, something to do with ferromagnetics.

Best default gun on a troop choice?

Wraithcannon

Always wounds on a 2+, inflicts instant death on a 6, glances on 3-4 and penetrates on 5-6. Oh, and its AP2.

Sure, it's 12" Assault 1. But, that still is an amazing gun on a troop unit.

Plasma weapons run out of ammunition all the time... or, rather, they can. They're fed by large tanks of some sort of fissile material, which is not limitless in volume.

Grakmar wrote:Wraithcannon

Oh, nevermind. I change my vote to that.

Pulse Rifle, because Gauss Flayers aren't Rifles

Actually, for it to be a rifle, it needs rifling... Which only the bolter/storm bolter and the shoota have.

I disagree that a Storm Bolter is the 'standard' rifle for any army.. It's always portrayed as a heavy weapon, if the lowest rung, and one that Terminators can juggle with ease.

Splinter rifle here.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Actually, for it to be a rifle, it needs rifling... Which only the bolter/storm bolter and the shoota have.

1. The pulse rifle is rifled (it shoots a solid bolt enveloped in energy)
2. Neither the bolter/storm bolter/shoota have the word rifle associated with the name
3. Where does it say that any of those weapons have a rifled barrel??

Can't remember the source, but I remember it stating somewhere that bolter rounds spin to increase accuracy, presumably this is cased by rifling.

Where does it say the pulse rifle is rifled?

Its inherent to the name, it cant be called a rifle if it doesnt have a rifled barrel

Ailaros wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Wraithcannon

Oh, nevermind. I change my vote to that.

Aye, I'd agree. Hell if they ever go plastic, I'd struggle not to head off to Eldar again, even if I have failed to find painting enthusiasm on them as a army twice.

Finally the warith cannon turns up the amount of nids tremys and grey knight cheese they throw into the war at bs 4 gut who are also S5 and T6 you dont beat that good for 35 points

IcedAnimals wrote:The Gauss blaster is infinitely better a gun on basic troops than the gauss flayer. It gains 1 str and 1 AP value. So in terms of the gun itself it is the better of the two. The only reason why guass flayers are nice is because they are much cheaper to field as they are on a much cheaper troop choice.

Really, these are the top 3 rifles. (In no particular order)

Tau Pulse Rifle. Str 5 Ap 5 with a 30 inch range and can rapid fire. Its biggest weakness isn't in the gun itself but in the troop that carries it. However you can get those troops BS4 with the use of a marker light.

Necron Gauss Blaster. Str 5 AP 4 but 24 inches compared to the pulse rifles 30 inches AP5. I would give the edge slightly to the tau, since their range is better than an AP value that still doesn't effect marines. That is until the Gauss special rule comes into play. The ability of a basic rifle to glance a vehicle to death is a huge edge over the competition.

The last of the top 3 and honestly its here on a technicality is the Grey Knight Storm bolter. In other books the weapon is considered strong enough to be a special weapon. But the GKs field them instead of the usual marine weaponry. Str 4 Ap 5 assault 2 24inch range. Unlike the other weapons which require you to hold still unless you are rapid firing, you have a much further mobility range. Effectively giving your unit a 30 inch range to match the tau but you get twice as many shots.

The only other gun that even comes close to "top 3" material is the dark eldar splinter rifle. So lets give it an honorable mention. With no str value but always wounding on a 4+ the rifle can kill monstrous creatures just as easily as marines. The downside is of course is it makes killing smaller targets just as hard as killing anything else.

Believe the question was which STANDARD rifle is better. Gauss Blaster is a step up from the Flayer, therefor no longer a "standard gun."

Least that was my interpretation in this thread

Winterkit wrote:I disagree that a Storm Bolter is the 'standard' rifle for any army.. It's always portrayed as a heavy weapon, if the lowest rung, and one that Terminators can juggle with ease.

Except that it is a standard rifle for Grey Knights. Even power armoured Grey Knights.

Cryage wrote:

IcedAnimals wrote:The Gauss blaster is infinitely better a gun on basic troops than the gauss flayer. It gains 1 str and 1 AP value. So in terms of the gun itself it is the better of the two. The only reason why guass flayers are nice is because they are much cheaper to field as they are on a much cheaper troop choice.

Really, these are the top 3 rifles. (In no particular order)

Tau Pulse Rifle. Str 5 Ap 5 with a 30 inch range and can rapid fire. Its biggest weakness isn't in the gun itself but in the troop that carries it. However you can get those troops BS4 with the use of a marker light.

Necron Gauss Blaster. Str 5 AP 4 but 24 inches compared to the pulse rifles 30 inches AP5. I would give the edge slightly to the tau, since their range is better than an AP value that still doesn't effect marines. That is until the Gauss special rule comes into play. The ability of a basic rifle to glance a vehicle to death is a huge edge over the competition.

The last of the top 3 and honestly its here on a technicality is the Grey Knight Storm bolter. In other books the weapon is considered strong enough to be a special weapon. But the GKs field them instead of the usual marine weaponry. Str 4 Ap 5 assault 2 24inch range. Unlike the other weapons which require you to hold still unless you are rapid firing, you have a much further mobility range. Effectively giving your unit a 30 inch range to match the tau but you get twice as many shots.

The only other gun that even comes close to "top 3" material is the dark eldar splinter rifle. So lets give it an honorable mention. With no str value but always wounding on a 4+ the rifle can kill monstrous creatures just as easily as marines. The downside is of course is it makes killing smaller targets just as hard as killing anything else.

Believe the question was which STANDARD rifle is better. Gauss Blaster is a step up from the Flayer, therefor no longer a "standard gun."

Least that was my interpretation in this thread

It is still the standard gun given to a troop choice in the necron codex. Its like saying bolters don't count because scouts come with shotguns.

Cryage wrote:

Believe the question was which STANDARD rifle is better. Gauss Blaster is a step up from the Flayer, therefor no longer a "standard gun."

Least that was my interpretation in this thread

It comes on a standard troop. Just a bit more expensive standard troop.

I'm not disagreeing with you guys, I'm just saying I read the question as which most basic gun (the "staple weapon" if you will) for each army is the best.

Shoota. Half of them dont even have a way for the Ammo to get to the chamber, but they ALL fire, EVERY time.

Ive got to say either tau pulse rifle or Necron Gauss blaster.

Stormbolter (GK)

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