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WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/04 13:28:15


Post by: CDK


Here's some pics of my first Shasvastii. I'm trying a new technique on him. I sprayed it white with Floquill primer and then used Secret Weapon black wash. I then painted the armor with thinned down Model Color Terracotta. It's supposed to make the deep parts darker but I didn't see much of that but the nice thing was that covered the bits of white I always miss when doing white primer. I think I'm going to try it again but heavier and with a brown wash.

For the flesh I wanted something alien looking and of course aliens are green right? So I did a thin layer of a jade green and then when that was dry I did a thing layer of light tan. I didn't' want him to be GREEN. just enough to look strange.

I'm almost done now. I want to add some decals and then I'm going to do water effects in the base. The base is the Blasted Swamp base from Secret Weapon. They already have a lip as you can see so you can put in the water effect stuff.






WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/04 13:47:53


Post by: Casey's Law


Very nice, i look forward to seeing it finished.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/04 14:00:34


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


He certainly looks like you have the base colors down, and that looks pretty good. The red loincloth bit gets completely lost in the armor though, and the armor itself could either use some highlighting/shading, or some of the plates picked out in a different color to add some more to the model.

The feet are also really cool on these models, maybe pay a little bit of extra attention for those and pick out the claws/toes and whatnot.

Do you ring your bases black or brown?


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/04 14:08:05


Post by: BlueDagger


The important question is, what color is the goo when they go squish


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/04 15:30:53


Post by: CDK


The loin cloth thing is hard to see and is much brighter than the brown. I'll try to do much better photos when it's done. I agree about more highlights. He's certainly not done-done but he's close. I still have to buy the water effect stuff and need to find some foliage. I want to something like reeds near the legs and tree stumps.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/09 16:58:19


Post by: CDK


I've started painting the Shotgun version of the Gwailo now since I'm pretty happy the way the other one has gone. The tabard is going to be green this time so it stands out a bit more.




I also started work on my Skiavoro. I want non-Shasvastii to not be exactly the same but close. Since they are more machine I went with a metalic. Also love a patina look.





WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/09 17:41:35


Post by: BlueDagger


Ooo that metal look came out really nice!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/10 18:29:55


Post by: Casey's Law


The new loincloth colour was a great choice and the metal on the Skiavoro looks really great too, keep us updated!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/11 08:39:54


Post by: Pacific


Absolutely love the contrast between the armour colour and the bright skin! Great stuff!

Now you just need to set it off by choosing a colour for his accessory


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 12:28:25


Post by: CDK


Here is the 1st Gwailo. I'm pretty happy with him. All I need now is something to be reeds in the water when I do the water effect in the base.




The Skia is coming along well. A few more details and eventually some decals and he will be done I think.




I thought I'd also show what I'm going to use as Pretas. I'm not big on the Hungries figures and I've been wanting to use my old Vor Shard figures for a long time.



WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 12:35:07


Post by: Von Skyfury


These are very nice

Good job =)


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 14:15:57


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


I'm liking that Skia, though I'm thinking if you hit the green muscle-bits with a wash (maybe Blue mixed with Green and a touch of Black), then go back and single-highlight all the muscle bits, it would look absolutely amazing.

That... might be a little labor intensive though. But think of how awesome it would be!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 15:06:27


Post by: CDK


I think you are right CC. I'll try a bit more blue-green wash on the muscle fiber.

I've done a bit of photoshop to get a preview of what it could look like with the decal. I'm liking the green and yellow one most.







WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 15:26:25


Post by: BlueDagger


Love it so far, keep it up!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 15:55:34


Post by: CDK


I'm liking the Green/blue icon more and more because it doesn't stand out too much. The others I find distracting.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 15:56:30


Post by: Casey's Law


Very nice! Have you thought of dried spaghetti for the reeds?


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 16:01:42


Post by: Von Skyfury


I'd go with the green.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 16:25:47


Post by: BlueDagger


Green unless you can do some yellow detailing to tie the yellow decal in


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 16:27:58


Post by: CDK


Casey's Law wrote:Very nice! Have you thought of dried spaghetti for the reeds?


Hmmm. Interesting. What could happen to them if they become wet or something?


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 16:35:11


Post by: Casey's Law


I'm not sure, it would have to be very wet for a very long time though. I used them once when i first started, ten years ago. They take paint without damage but they are slippy so it'll take many coats. I'd take the time to find the thinnest type you can if you are going to do it. Mine were far too thick. The worry i would have, rather than getting them wet is how brittle they are. They snap very easily so you'll have to be careful with them. It depends how long you want them of course.

You might be better with wire, maybe cut lengths from a few paper clips.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 16:55:53


Post by: CDK


Paper clips or wire does sound better. I was thinking of finding some sort of straw as well.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 17:25:51


Post by: Casey's Law


Yeh a few cuttings from a grass might be cool.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 17:52:36


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


Green for the Icon.

Also for reeds, take an old crappy paintbrush... like one you'd use for walls and windows, and cut down the bristles for one of those. You can make bunches by tacking them together with superglue and letting them sit for a while. I did it for Dark Elf Cold Ones and it looked damn good. You can just keep gluing more bristles in to get the size bunch you want, then trim them down with scissors once they're all dry.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 18:01:32


Post by: CDK


I'm going to look into that for sure. I feel they may be too short though. I would like some at least knee height.

Over on the Infinity site it was suggested I reverse the logo. The yellow is a bit more subdued.




WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 19:07:14


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


If you use a paintbrush, they sould be over knee height. I'm talking wall brushes here, not old model brushes. You'll find the bristles are more than adequate.

The problem is the best ones are from cheap, really really worn down and used up brushes. Not brand new ones.

And toss the yellow, go Green.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/12 19:31:42


Post by: Casey's Law


Paintbrush bristles sound prefect! and the inverted scheme is better, go with the green imo.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/15 14:17:32


Post by: CDK


I think I've found something pretty good. toothbrush bristles. I have an old toothbrush for getting paint off old figs. It's just the right height I think. I'll post pics soon I hope.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/17 02:06:59


Post by: CDK


I found something great for the reeds. Toothbrush bristles! I think they worked out well.

Next comes the water effect. I got some Vallejo still water effect stuff. I think since it's swampy I should add something like brown wash or something. I'll test it out first.






WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/17 12:14:50


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


Yeah, that did come out really well!

Whats nice is the water effects will help cement the bristles down to make sure you don't get any rogue bristles trying to escape.

Well done sir.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/17 12:27:42


Post by: CDK


Thanks! You're right about the water. That's what I'm hopping for anyway. Now I'm thinking I need something that would work as like pond scum. I'm thinking a little bit of fine flock that I put on the water works while wet, and then cover again with thin layer of water.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/17 12:39:38


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


That ugly green cork flock would be perfect for it. I haaaate that stuff, so I don't own any, but I'm sure you can find someone willing to part with it.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/17 12:48:22


Post by: CDK


What is that? Cork? Why do you hate it? I think I have to just find stuff at home because I don't have money and I don't want to buy tons of stuff I"ll never use. As it is the Vallejo water effect stuff is about 10 times more than I need. I figure though I'll try doing some terrain with it. I might raid the cabinets some dried herbs to make nice smelling shasvastii!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/17 12:56:41


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


It's that ugly looking goblin green flock that they use on model railroads and GW's models in the early-mid nineties before they discovered the glory of fiberglass.

It's kinda round and looks more like green gravel than grass.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/17 14:02:52


Post by: CDK


I was thinking of something powdery. I know we have some ground cumin that might work nicely. Yum lol.

Someone at the Infinity site suggested using bamboo skewers. I'm so going to do that!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/19 13:30:06


Post by: CDK


The first layer of water effect in. I added in some flesh wash to make it murky and muddy. Since I didn't have any empty dropper bottles I mixed it in a cup and then used an eye dropper. I didn't know you do it in layers. So this morning I saw it looked like I had only just did a thick gloss varnish. Then I read bottle again and is says to add in layers. I was able to save some from last night so I put more in this morning. I need to find some of those really thin droppers though because my eye dropper is a bit big to get in there. I still have a ton of water effect stuff. I've got to start thinking of some terrain pieces to do to go along with the figures.





WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/19 13:36:58


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


That's looking pretty good. Shame your camera wants to focus on everything else other than the base though.

Some more layers and it'll be right where you want it.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/19 14:42:12


Post by: CDK


I know I couldn't get it to focus on the base at all. Hope I can do better when it's done.

I tried putting on some ground cumin and celery seasoning to look like pond scum but didn't work that well. You can hardly see it.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/19 17:44:35


Post by: Boss Salvage


Great plog, and really dig the armor color on your gwailos I'm just now stripping my shasii gang from a bad prime in the fall that really killed my desire to paint them, hope to get some paint on 150+ points and get back into the game soon. Might just make pics happen around these parts ...

Also, cool that you're rocking a skia in CA games, I've actually got an anath for mine

- Salvage


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/19 18:16:06


Post by: CDK


Want the Anathematic but he's too expensive :( I love the Shas even though I have a hard time playing them. But then I keep going up against my buddy with his darn Haqqislam and Djanbazan with their MSV L2! Shas are definitely not meant for a strait up fight.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/19 19:18:38


Post by: Boss Salvage


CDK wrote:I love the Shas even though I have a hard time playing them. But then I keep going up against my buddy with his darn Haqqislam and Djanbazan with their MSV L2!
I hate MSV2, they really screw the game up and everybody takes them. But you know who doesn't? SEF! It's one of the reasons I'm switching to spitfires rather than snipers, with the hope that volume of fire can override TO nonsense. But you know what else we don't have? Smoke grenades! So we can't use that basic tactic either

On the other hand, I've done well with my SEF, mostly using aswangs going rambo and devouring everything

- Salvage


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/19 21:40:25


Post by: CDK


Aswangs are great and cheap too! Noctifers are great too with Dogged. The cheapest TO camo troop. Ya I know about the MSV but it doesn't work on hidden troops!

I love the Gwailo too. But you got to remember, just because he takes his cover with him doesn't mean you walk him in the open if you don't NEED to.

My next game I'm going to try a Haiduk with Guided Multi-sniper rifle. With a combo of a Shrouded FO and FO remote with sensor it might do okay. Also remote with GML!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/20 02:53:02


Post by: Cave_Dweller


CDK wrote:I know I couldn't get it to focus on the base at all. Hope I can do better when it's done.

I tried putting on some ground cumin and celery seasoning to look like pond scum but didn't work that well. You can hardly see it.


I see I'm not the only one experimenting with kitchen seasonings as basing material. It didn't work well for me, either.

You might want to try a simple wash on top of the varnish, might coat it and give it a dull look that you're going for.

Your base work is great, by the way. The toothbrush idea worked out quite well. Your killer lobsterman looks great and I'd love to game against an army like that.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/20 12:59:58


Post by: CDK


Thanks. Well I've now added two more layers. Sorry I didn't get pics. Now it's a nice murky brown. The only thing I don't like is the time. So far three layers has taken three days. Looking worth it though.

Now I have got to find some decal paper and print some icons. I just wish I could find a place selling by the sheet.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/20 14:01:24


Post by: Casey's Law


Great work, dude. You've really pulled it off!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/21 19:51:29


Post by: CDK


Here they are with the finished bases. Just decals to go.






WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/21 20:18:14


Post by: Von Skyfury


I like these.
A lot.

Good job =)


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/21 21:26:11


Post by: CDK


Thanks. I'm pretty happy with them.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/21 21:54:17


Post by: SilverMK2


Loving the weathered copper colour of the "muscles".


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/22 03:24:18


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


Yeah CDK, whatever your final concoction was for the swampiness turned out great. You did a great job of making them look like they were in their element.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/23 12:58:50


Post by: CDK


I'm pretty happy with them. I added flesh was to the Vellejo still water effect to make it loo murky. I figure samp water would not be clear.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/23 13:47:43


Post by: The CF


Love the guys!
And how did you do those bases? They look amazing! Is it some kind of flock / clump foliage with water effects over, or...?


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/23 14:19:23


Post by: CDK


To be honest it's bases I bought from secret weapon minis.

http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=79_30_59

They come with a bit of lip made just for doing water effects. They are textured on the bottom. I added a bit of fine sand under the feet too.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/23 21:35:37


Post by: The CF


Wow, those are a great find!
Too bad they don't come in squares. I could use some.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/04/24 12:43:52


Post by: CDK


I highly recommend their washes too.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/16 13:57:20


Post by: CDK


Well since I didn't get them into the contest I thought I should at least post my WIP pics here. I'll try and take pics of the finished minis soon.





WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/16 13:59:52


Post by: Von Skyfury


I like it =)
Finish it ASAP please =)


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/16 14:01:23


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


What are you using for the armor? Dark Flesh or something similar like Terracotta?


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/16 14:05:50


Post by: CDK


You got it. Model Color Terracotta. The paint that's used for the base I also use as a wash for that same armor. I'm big on using a limited palette of paint.

They are already done I just need to take pics of them. Hopefully tonight. My Skiavoro is also done but again need to take pics. I haven't done the decals yet because I need decal paper.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/16 19:31:13


Post by: Casey's Law


Looking good, man!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/17 09:43:00


Post by: Pacific


Really great looking colour scheme, and a nice combination of contrasting shades!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/17 13:56:15


Post by: CDK


I bought another shrouded. I think I'm going to try and convert him to holding a mine. I'm just not sure what to use as a Combined mine!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/17 15:21:43


Post by: valthonis


How about these? I'm pretty sure that is a 1" hex base.

"Light Drones"
http://studiobergstrom.com/index.php?productID=161

"Heavy Drones"
http://studiobergstrom.com/index.php?productID=163


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/17 16:10:27


Post by: CDK


Pretty cool! I like that heavy drone. It looks pretty mine-y. lol


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/26 15:14:35


Post by: CDK


got a few WIP of my Noctifer and the finished Shrouded hacker and Malignos sniper.



















WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/28 19:48:04


Post by: CDK


Here's the Skiavoros and group shots.









WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/28 20:13:24


Post by: Von Skyfury


Nice =)
Looks like the Space Marine in the back is going to have a very bad day =P


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/29 12:07:57


Post by: Chemical Cutthroat


Yeah, those are looking sharp. I like that the Skiavoros doesn't have the same look to his armor as the rest of them, he does need to stand out from the rest in some way or another.

I think the chap crouching in the reeds is the top of the litter so far. The colors are clean and they're bright where they need to be, I call it a win.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/05/29 14:36:23


Post by: CDK


@VS: lol one of the last Marines I still have. Seems kinda silly to get rid of just one guy.

@CC: I like how he stands out but not TOO much. All of the EI type figures will have the same look.

The far right Malignos was going to be my entry into the painting competition too :(


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/06/01 15:22:13


Post by: Casey's Law


What a great force you've put together so far! They look great.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/06/01 17:58:20


Post by: CDK


Thanks they are coming along pretty well I think. They are not taking that long either (if given the time). The Noctifer only took about three days. I should say nights. so about 4-5 hours total.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 13:28:38


Post by: CDK


Here's some new images of my Shasvastii. I've added a hacker screen to my shrouded's hand. I think it's pretty cool. My finished Noctifer and new Gwailo with spitfire. Now that I look at the pictures I see things I could touch up. :(






WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 13:41:48


Post by: Von Skyfury


I like these =)
The bases are especially really nice =)


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 14:31:49


Post by: CDK


Oh I forgot to mention they have a washer on the bottom to make them a little more bottom heavy and I've put magnets in the bottom. I'll show pics on how I'm storing them soon. It's essentially a deep baking pan. The magnet holds them in place now matter what angle. No more trying to get them in foam!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 14:55:00


Post by: Von Skyfury


Brilliant !
Is it an expensive way to store minis ?


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 14:55:36


Post by: Revenent Reiko


CDK, wow...that cloak, those bases....just wow...


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 15:12:21


Post by: CDK


Von Skyfury wrote:Brilliant !
Is it an expensive way to store minis ?


Probably the cheapest ever! Right now the pan is a used one the wife doesn't use anymore! But I saw them at the store for around $5. The plastic container that then goes into she got at the store for about $3!

Thanks Revenent! I'm pretty happy with the bases. I'm thinking of adding running water on the Noctifer.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 15:43:46


Post by: Von Skyfury


What about the magnets ?


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 16:22:43


Post by: CDK


Even cheaper! $0.16 at this place. I got 50 of them for $13.00 with shipping.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D31


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/12 16:43:19


Post by: ghostmaker


Sweet looking stuff! Never liked the aliens but they look good!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/13 01:27:32


Post by: CDK


Here is my new carrier for my figs. On the CA I glued a steel washer on the bottom and then a magnet right in the center. This was because I used resin bases. You can't see that well but the figures are almost on their side! Love it.



WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/23 19:56:26


Post by: YELLOWBLADES


Very nice minis! i can't wait to see that guijia painted!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/23 23:33:44


Post by: Pacific


Have to echo the sentiment of others on here and say the bases look lovely! Really nice effect you have achieved, and goes well with their colour scheme. Really like the cloak on the Noctifier as well!

Do you mind me asking how you did the weird effect with the hacker? It looks great, really suits the 'voodoo tech' style of the CA I think. I've tried lots of ways of using the hacker plastics on other minis but gave up as I couldn't make it look like anything other than coloured acetate.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/07/30 18:28:17


Post by: CDK


It must be the lighting lol. I don't really know. I made sure that his hand was under some of the printed art so you wouldn't see the glue holding it in place. I also cut it down a bit from the original art.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2012/09/20 19:21:11


Post by: CDK


Well here's what I'm going to work on next. Shrouded sniper and mine layer, Cadmus with shotgun, Aswuang with shotgun, and three seed soldiers.




What do you guys think I should use these figs for? I love the figs but never got to use them so I thought they'd make stand ins.



WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/14 13:13:07


Post by: CDK


Well here's a little bit of an update. I haven't been able to take the time to paint in months. Just too much going on in RL. Even when I do have the time I haven't had the inspiration to do it.

Cadmus with Shotgun



Shrouded Sniper



Aswang with Shotgun



WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/14 15:33:22


Post by: BlueDagger


Nicely done sir! Keep up the motivation!


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/14 22:38:48


Post by: bantha_beast


I'm liking the colour scheme on your shasvastii. And the swampy bases really suit them as well. Luckily the shasvastii don't have any shoes to get wet either! And the aswang looks like he's got hold of some fresh meat. Looking forward to seeing some more.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/18 00:33:05


Post by: Casey's Law


Very slick, mate! Nice to see you working on these.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/18 01:39:35


Post by: Crazy Ivan


I like the colour scheme especially the skin colour on the Shasvastii.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/18 14:13:30


Post by: CDK


Thanks. When I first saw Shasvastii I thought of Amphibians. So that's why I went with the skin color and swamp bases. Then I thought the armor should be natural colors to help the camo.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/27 20:45:34


Post by: Baiyuan


Cool stuff!
I was about to ask whether those are hollow blanks from SW, but found out they are the premade swamp bases. I've ordered hollow blanks for my SEF and I'd be interested in your experience with their cousins. How did you like them? Do you see certain dis/advantages? etc.


WIP CDK's Infinity Shasvastii @ 2013/03/28 17:31:41


Post by: CDK


Yes these are the "Blasted Marsh" base from Secret Weapon. The first set I ordered had a lot of bubbles. I complained about it on the main Infinity forum and they heard and sent me out new ones! So far I think they are really good. I think they are a good start to a base. Easy to add to it if you want.