Emerett wrote:Go watch the video and you'll find out.
We will be focusing on high quality videos to help new players learn the game easier. So we will need a decent camera and a properly lit studio.
I did, and I see that you want funding for equipment and such... I suppose a Kickstarter is not entirely unwarranted but it seems odd considering the proliferation of other hobby-centric websites that started up on their own.
Emerett wrote:Go watch the video and you'll find out.
We will be focusing on high quality videos to help new players learn the game easier. So we will need a decent camera and a properly lit studio.
I did, and I see that you want funding for equipment and such... I suppose a Kickstarter is not entirely unwarranted but it seems odd considering the proliferation of other hobby-centric websites that started up on their own.
I wish you the best in any case.
Very few of those other sites have high quality video, steady camera operators or well thought out dialogue for the videos they are shooting.
That's why we are Kickstarting, I believe there is a demand for such a website and we hope to provide it.
It's easy to say what you want to do with the website, but to get people donating, you're going to have to show that you can actually deliver something that they can't already find elsewhere.
insaniak wrote:Do you have any existing tutorials out there?
It's easy to say what you want to do with the website, but to get people donating, you're going to have to show that you can actually deliver something that they can't already find elsewhere.
I agree. Most kickstarters show a preview of their work. You show only yourself talking about what you want to do. Regardless of camera quality, you should be able to create at least a tutorial.
ph34r wrote:Why do you need a kickstarter to make a website.
I don't understand why gamers have such a hard time understanding this, and I'm not singling you out specifically, but I see a question like this in every Kickstarter/IndieGoGo thread. Kickstarter is about creative projects. It is not solely about launching a business in which the donators see some return on investment. In fact, it direct says in is not about investment or lending on their website. It is about supporting projects you think deserve support. Sorry for using your comment to express my point, but I find it frustrating that people question someone using a site for it's intended purpose. It would kind of be like asking someone why they are using eBay to sell their goods.
Edit: But yes, as expressed, some additional info or a preview of what you plan to do would be a good idea.
Cadaver wrote:... but I find it frustrating that people question someone using a site for it's intended purpose. It would kind of be like asking someone why they are using eBay to sell their goods.
It would be more like asking why someone is seeking donations to set up an eBay store...
IP laws are not a strong suit of mine, but how in depth with rules are you going to be able to go into before GDubs has a lawyer knocking on your door?
Cadaver wrote:... but I find it frustrating that people question someone using a site for it's intended purpose. It would kind of be like asking someone why they are using eBay to sell their goods.
It would be more like asking why someone is seeking donations to set up an eBay store...
Kickstarter is a platform for crowd-sourced funding for creative projects. Ebay is a e-commerce platform for selling your goods. He is using Kickstarter for its intended purpose. He is not setting up a an e-commerce website for profit, so that comparison, I think, is very inaccurate. Besides, the whole point of Kickstarter is people seeking donations for their projects.
Maybe a better comparison than eBay would be this; what's the point of donating to Dakka by becoming a DCM? You aren't really seeing a return on that donation, yet you don't see anyone questioning why you would collect money to support that endeavor. One is a donation to get a website off the ground, another is a donation to keep a website running than has grown beyond the capability, or desire, of the owners to fund solely themselves.
Emerett, it's cool you are doing the "big three" but perhaps focusing on the smaller games like Malifaux, Dark Age, GW specialist games as well would nice. Most folks know generally about the bigger games, and I not saying don't cover them. However, providing tutorials on games people may be hesitant to get into for no other reason than lack of exposure might draw more attention. In any event, I wish you and your team the best of luck!
Cadaver wrote:
Emerett, it's cool you are doing the "big three" but perhaps focusing on the smaller games like Malifaux, Dark Age, GW specialist games as well would nice. Most folks know generally about the bigger games, and I not saying don't cover them. However, providing tutorials on games people may be hesitant to get into for no other reason than lack of exposure might draw more attention. In any event, I wish you and your team the best of luck!
Seconding this.
When Beasts of War did their Infinity stuff it really increased the interest in that game.
Cadaver wrote:
Emerett, it's cool you are doing the "big three" but perhaps focusing on the smaller games like Malifaux, Dark Age, GW specialist games as well would nice. Most folks know generally about the bigger games, and I not saying don't cover them. However, providing tutorials on games people may be hesitant to get into for no other reason than lack of exposure might draw more attention. In any event, I wish you and your team the best of luck!
Seconding this.
When Beasts of War did their Infinity stuff it really increased the interest in that game.
Immensely, they create quickstart rules, they had interviews with the CB guys... it was in depth as all get out.
We are currently in the process of trying to find a camera to rent / borrow so we can put together a decent preview tutorial showing the format and style that our videos will be (the original was shot on a smartphone, audio sync issues make it impossible for me to edit properly). Once we find one, we will update the Kickstarter page with the demo tutorial all of you have suggested. Hopefully this will happen by thursday of next week, March 12th.
After a bit of discussion about the input from you guys we will absolutely be expanding to more tabletop games. We hope that this will interest older players that already have the big three down and may be interested in learning about newer games. Also, it will just help the wargaming community in general, showing how games people haven't played before, work on the table.
The list of games we will expand to right now contains:
Mailfaux
Infinity
Super Dungeon Explore
Blood Bowl
Dreadfleet
Inquisitor
Necromunda
Mordheim
Battlefleet Gothic (I haven't seen this one suggested but I thought it may be a good idea, is anyone still playing Gothic out there?)
Battletech
Iron Kingdoms
I feel that this is a much heftier and satisfying list than we had originally proposed. I am confident that we will be able to have pretty solid database of video tutorials for these games on the launch of the website and they will continue to stream out after launch. This list of games will obviously grow as the site expands with time and new games get the spotlight and demand coverage.
Also:
We decided to add a new reward to the Kickstarter Page that veteran players may be able to appreciate more. A Diced or GeekPlug branded Rulebook / Codex cover. It is actually quite nice, zips closed, holds the book in place and has a notepad in the back great for writing notes and army lists down (and it looks classy to boot).
You don't have to donate to keep up with what's happening on the Kickstarter page, by just starring it, you will be supporting us.
Not sure that you really need to go over a game that will never be supported, and is only obtainable via ebay. The same could be said for BFG, but I've actually seen people play BFG and discuss it with some regularity.
Not sure that you really need to go over a game that will never be supported, and is only obtainable via ebay. The same could be said for BFG, but I've actually seen people play BFG and discuss it with some regularity.
It's still a GW product and GW is big, so lots of people will be looking it up. May as well support it.
Not sure that you really need to go over a game that will never be supported, and is only obtainable via ebay. The same could be said for BFG, but I've actually seen people play BFG and discuss it with some regularity.
It's still a GW product and GW is big, so lots of people will be looking it up. May as well support it.
Not sure that you really need to go over a game that will never be supported, and is only obtainable via ebay. The same could be said for BFG, but I've actually seen people play BFG and discuss it with some regularity.
It's still a GW product and GW is big, so lots of people will be looking it up. May as well support it.
Then why not LOTR/WOTR?
We are only covering games on launch that someone at the teams plays.
None of us currently play LOTRWOTR, so we can't promise that we will have a full understanding of the rules at launch.
It will happen in the future, but I can't promise that it will within spring of this year.
You are doing it wrong. Nobody cares how many products you slap your logo on; why would anyone want one of your products if you are not a brand that is good or that people care about?
I do not want a geek plug branded organizer and a geek plug branded shirt when you have done zero.
LunaHound wrote:I think the artist that made all the stuff is awesome :3
You know it's just the same logo plastered over everything? A logo like that takes under an hour to make. I made a logo for a project's concept company two days ago, it took 30 minutes.
LunaHound wrote:I think the artist that made all the stuff is awesome :3
You know it's just the same logo plastered over everything? A logo like that takes under an hour to make. I made a logo for a project's concept company two days ago, it took 30 minutes.
And its eye catching.
If you make nice stuff I would compliment it too. Its not like im trying to single anyone out...
( actually I would love to see your work, Im a good editor :3 are you ph34ry? )
He's been trying to troll this thread the entire time it's been up, nothing new.
Some people don't like seeing others trying to succeed, I can live with this, it's still not going to stop me.
I appreciate the compliments on the logo, me and the guy you see in the video worked on them for a while to get a concept that we liked, I am very happy with how they came out.
ph34r wrote:You are doing it wrong. Nobody cares how many products you slap your logo on; why would anyone want one of your products if you are not a brand that is good or that people care about?
I do not want a geek plug branded organizer and a geek plug branded shirt when you have done zero.
I'm curious, ph34r - why do you seem so angry about this Kickstarter? Providing incentives for higher donations seems to be part of the standard approach on the site, and quite a few I've seen have included branded merchandise even before the brand has become well-known.
ph34r wrote:You are doing it wrong. Nobody cares how many products you slap your logo on; why would anyone want one of your products if you are not a brand that is good or that people care about?
I do not want a geek plug branded organizer and a geek plug branded shirt when you have done zero.
I'm curious, ph34r - why do you seem so angry about this Kickstarter? Providing incentives for higher donations seems to be part of the standard approach on the site, and quite a few I've seen have included branded merchandise even before the brand has become well-known.
But ph34r isn't wrong either. Why would any normal person throw out money to an organization that have no prior work done to show as their reputation?
Charity is one thing, but like BOW I can see this turn into something monetary ( sponsors and ad space etc etc )
Dysartes wrote:I'm curious, ph34r - why do you seem so angry about this Kickstarter? Providing incentives for higher donations seems to be part of the standard approach on the site, and quite a few I've seen have included branded merchandise even before the brand has become well-known.
As a fellow businessman, I'm sort of disgusted by how lazy many kickstarter projects are these days. This company has done literally nothing and they are already trying to get people to wear and use products with their logo plastered all over them. They want people to pay them money to get rebranded generic products to advertise for a company that has done legit nothing.
Cadaver wrote:
Emerett, it's cool you are doing the "big three" but perhaps focusing on the smaller games like Malifaux, Dark Age, GW specialist games as well would nice. Most folks know generally about the bigger games, and I not saying don't cover them. However, providing tutorials on games people may be hesitant to get into for no other reason than lack of exposure might draw more attention. In any event, I wish you and your team the best of luck!
Seconding this.
When Beasts of War did their Infinity stuff it really increased the interest in that game.
I bought three Infinity armies off the back of that promotion. I had already been interested in the game, and it was the combination of BoW coverage and the accompanying offers that kickstarted me.
OP: you can also have like periodic interviews with tournament winners ( inreturn they get boost to epeen xDDD)
And regarding the video ( this is important since I assume we'll be watching the program in video format? )
But please, dont raise eyebrows that high and dont turn side ways all the time. That body language makes me not want to watch :'P
Dysartes wrote:I'm curious, ph34r - why do you seem so angry about this Kickstarter? Providing incentives for higher donations seems to be part of the standard approach on the site, and quite a few I've seen have included branded merchandise even before the brand has become well-known.
As a fellow businessman, I'm sort of disgusted by how lazy many kickstarter projects are these days. This company has done literally nothing and they are already trying to get people to wear and use products with their logo plastered all over them. They want people to pay them money to get rebranded generic products to advertise for a company that has done legit nothing.
It's called building a brand. That's what marketing tells people they need to do these days.
If people believe in the promise they will contribute, otherwise they won't.
I've paid into a couple of Kickstarter projects that interested me. It's only $50 a go so not going to break the bank if it all comes to nothing.
In the longer run there is a danger that Kickstarter will become a focus for scams in which people make false promises just to receive the money.
LunaHound wrote:OP: you can also have like periodic interviews with tournament winners ( inreturn they get boost to epeen xDDD)
That would be great. I'd love to hear more from tournament winners.
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Kilkrazy wrote:It's called building a brand. That's what marketing tells people they need to do these days.
If people believe in the promise they will contribute, otherwise they won't.
You know what people need to do more? Commit to their projects. Show their potential fanbase that they are serious, that they are quality, that they are dedicated, before they try to shovel logos down our throats with zero substance.
I like the Idea and I don't think ph34r is trolling it on purpose... are you? or is it suppopsed to be constructive?
anyway the Idea is supperb and I am now following and the rest of it but I can't donate... sorry for that. Good luck in the future.
LunaHound wrote:I am curious about one thing, it says you guys will introduce hobby & game to newbies ( including popular warhammer and warmachine )
my question is, will you use warhammer or warmachine as primary introduction into the hobby aspect?
That is actually a fantastic question. Warmachine and Warhammer both have fantastic appeal due to their large model base, popularity and excellent lore with huge support from their manufacturers.
These games may not be the best choice for players brand new to the hobby however. Due to rules complexity, indecision in what models to choose and large initial cost.
We have a section planned for players that are *brand new* to the hobby, where we will outline all inclusive games and how they play, trying to help them make a decision in what to purchase.
The short list of the games for this section were:
If you're serious about introducing *new* people to the wargaming hobby (as opposed to the GW hobby), have you considered using Kings of War in addition to/ instead of warhammer as your sample game?
Warhammer startup costs:
Army book: £25
Rulebook: £35
Army: £150
KoW startup costs:
Army book/ Rulebook: Free to download, is also included free in army sets.
Army: £75
So, you're looking at 3x the cost to get into warhammer compared to KoW. Now, money is no object if you're a kid with rich parents, but from the perspective of trying to get adults interested (as I assume the videos will be aimed at?), money is a big factor, and I think you're going to need at least some coverage of a real "newbie friendly" game.
It's not just money either, rules complexity is a problem, with 200+ pages of warhammer rules, and 12 pages of KoW rules, the latter is much, much easier to teach to new players. You could easily get it done in a very short series of intro videos that don't drag on and bore peopple.
Warmachine works great as an intro as well, since the startup cost is low, and if you stick to the battlebox, the complexity of the game is kept in check.
So do other skirmish games, since the initial entry point is low. Just wondering if you'd ever consider casting your net a little wider than the games you're personally into? As many games as possible would be great. BoW is a video site that has had a lot of success by giving exposure to as many people as possible.
Once you're set up and are making high-quality painting and modelling videos, it's a safe bet that Mantic will be happy to send plenty of free stuff your way, their support for sites that offer them exposure is pretty good, BoW even gets a ton of exclusive interviews and things.
LunaHound wrote:I am curious about one thing, it says you guys will introduce hobby & game to newbies ( including popular warhammer and warmachine )
my question is, will you use warhammer or warmachine as primary introduction into the hobby aspect?
That is actually a fantastic question. Warmachine and Warhammer both have fantastic appeal due to their large model base, popularity and excellent lore with huge support from their manufacturers.
These games may not be the best choice for players brand new to the hobby however.
The short list of the games for this section were:
Super Dungeon Explore
Very good, I can see you guys have thought it out carefully, my original question was a trick question :'P
and Im not disappointed by your answer, excellent :3
@scarletsquig, the main reason OP chose those game is pretty clear.
Bloodbowl aka GW Grind aka PP
Both will dable into the popular company they belong to, yet not mainstream enough to have drama right away.
Charax wrote:The logos aren't bad, but I'd rather not have them plastered over everything. Especially the rulebook cover, which would otherwise be quite nice
I hadn't predicted that anybody would actually be upset that something would be branded with a gaming related logo.
I have updated the rewards to allow for a unbranded cover.
anton wrote:I like the Idea and I don't think ph34r is trolling it on purpose... are you? or is it suppopsed to be constructive?
anyway the Idea is supperb and I am now following and the rest of it but I can't donate... sorry for that. Good luck in the future.
Nope, not trolling at all. Just giving my blunt opinion, I would be more generous with my benefit of the doubt if there was a sample interview or intro or tutorial or anything but this kickstarter had no such thing, and left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
anton wrote:I like the Idea and I don't think ph34r is trolling it on purpose... are you? or is it suppopsed to be constructive?
anyway the Idea is supperb and I am now following and the rest of it but I can't donate... sorry for that. Good luck in the future.
Nope, not trolling at all. Just giving my blunt opinion, I would be more generous with my benefit of the doubt if there was a sample interview or intro or tutorial or anything but this kickstarter had no such thing, and left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
If you would read the previous page instead of jumping to conclusions, you would see that I have expanded on the multiple requests for this.
Emerett wrote:Just a quick update: 27 Days Left
We are currently in the process of trying to find a camera to rent / borrow so we can put together a decent preview tutorial showing the format and style that our videos will be (the original was shot on a smartphone, audio sync issues make it impossible for me to edit properly). Once we find one, we will update the Kickstarter page with the demo tutorial all of you have suggested. Hopefully this will happen by thursday of next week, March 12th.
As you can see, it is in the works. If you have a bad taste in your mouth, you are more than welcome to just vacate the thread. Everyone else here is being very helpful with input that we are using to update the project.
One of the best things about using Kickstarter is the feedback from the community, as they are the investor.
If we were to go find a Angel Investor to start this project, our only goal would be to make the investor happy and we would most likely never hear from the community.
Emerett wrote:We are currently in the process of trying to find a camera to rent / borrow so we can put together a decent preview tutorial showing the format and style that our videos will be (the original was shot on a smartphone, audio sync issues make it impossible for me to edit properly). Once we find one, we will update the Kickstarter page with the demo tutorial all of you have suggested. Hopefully this will happen by thursday of next week, March 12th.
The impression that you are giving off, to me and others I have spoken to in real life, is that you expect the community to support you, when you aren't confident enough in yourself to invest a day in filming a tutorial and a few hundred of your own money in a basic video camera. Look at other wargaming kickstarters, they have sculpted master models and quality concept art. I have nothing against you personally but I think your business strategy makes you appear very weak and not appealing to myself as a potential investor. I would love to see a website like you aspire to be, but if you are not willing to put in the effort to show me what you are capable of I am not giving you my money.
Emerett wrote:You just seem angry at this point, you are providing nothing constructive.
There are other people here that actually seem interested in a project like the one we are Kickstarting, so I will spend my time talking with them.
Believe me, I'm not angry. A sophisticated "u mad" is not conducive to improving your company.
I note that you chose to ignore the fact that I stated that I am interested in a project like this. My constructive criticism that I have been telling you is show that you have initiative and that you believe in your company enough to get a camera and produce something, anything, like what your website would contain. If you don't think that is a good way forward for you, that is up to you. Good luck.
Charax wrote:The logos aren't bad, but I'd rather not have them plastered over everything. Especially the rulebook cover, which would otherwise be quite nice
I hadn't predicted that anybody would actually be upset that something would be branded with a gaming related logo.
I have updated the rewards to allow for a unbranded cover.
Not upset, just strikes me that if someone's paying towards your startup costs, you shouldn't then use them as a human billboard. Thanks for making the change.
As an aside, it's a little unprofessional to use contractions and misspellings when mentioning actual released products (the Games are called "Super Dungeon Explore", "Flames of War" and "Warhammer 40,000", not Super Dungeon Explorer, Flames and Warhammer 40k - again, your target audience have never played these games before, they might get confused).
I won't be backing, simply because I have absolutely no interest in podcasts or video reviews - no malice in that, I just don't like them. I wish you the best, and if the rulebook covers are available after you're set up, I may get a few
anton wrote:I like the Idea and I don't think ph34r is trolling it on purpose... are you? or is it suppopsed to be constructive?
anyway the Idea is supperb and I am now following and the rest of it but I can't donate... sorry for that. Good luck in the future.
Nope, not trolling at all. Just giving my blunt opinion, I would be more generous with my benefit of the doubt if there was a sample interview or intro or tutorial or anything but this kickstarter had no such thing, and left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
If you would read the previous page instead of jumping to conclusions, you would see that I have expanded on the multiple requests for this.
Emerett wrote:Just a quick update: 27 Days Left
We are currently in the process of trying to find a camera to rent / borrow so we can put together a decent preview tutorial showing the format and style that our videos will be (the original was shot on a smartphone, audio sync issues make it impossible for me to edit properly). Once we find one, we will update the Kickstarter page with the demo tutorial all of you have suggested. Hopefully this will happen by thursday of next week, March 12th.
As you can see, it is in the works. If you have a bad taste in your mouth, you are more than welcome to just vacate the thread. Everyone else here is being very helpful with input that we are using to update the project.
One of the best things about using Kickstarter is the feedback from the community, as they are the investor.
If we were to go find a Angel Investor to start this project, our only goal would be to make the investor happy and we would most likely never hear from the community.
I don't quite see what you mean..... please explain?
ph34r wrote:Nope, not trolling at all. Just giving my blunt opinion, I would be more generous with my benefit of the doubt if there was a sample interview or intro or tutorial or anything but this kickstarter had no such thing, and left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah, we understand you don't like this idea and have made it clear in numerous posts. So why don't you leave the thread now? To continue posting negative posts here is trolling.
I actually like the idea of a webpage like this. I've "starred" the project and will see if I can find some money in the budget to help out.
What I would suggest though, is getting your hands on any camera (even 240p) and put a video up on Youtube or something. Concentrate on getting the presentation, camera work and editing up to snuff and worry about going high-res once you have enough to cover the camera.
helium42 wrote:Yeah, we understand you don't like this idea and have made it clear in numerous posts. So why don't you leave the thread now? To continue posting negative posts here is trolling.
I'm sorry if my opinion ruffled your feathers, but please do not insult me as trolling. Trolling would imply that I am stating false opinions to eke responses out of people and make them mad. I do not troll. I am more than happy to leave this thread alone unless someone insults me further, as sadly I do not think that the OP agrees that my suggestions to invest himself more in his company are strong business decisions.
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frozenwastes wrote:What I would suggest though, is getting your hands on any camera (even 240p) and put a video up on Youtube or something. Concentrate on getting the presentation, camera work and editing up to snuff and worry about going high-res once you have enough to cover the camera.
frozenwastes wrote:I actually like the idea of a webpage like this. I've "starred" the project and will see if I can find some money in the budget to help out.
What I would suggest though, is getting your hands on any camera (even 240p) and put a video up on Youtube or something. Concentrate on getting the presentation, camera work and editing up to snuff and worry about going high-res once you have enough to cover the camera.
We have one scheduled to be rented on Monday, after shooting and editing I will be able to have a demo up on the Kickstarter page by Thursday.
People keep suggesting that we just buy a cheap camera to do some demos on (which we have a couple of), but I am very concerned that if I put up a low quality demo video, that donators may think that will be the final quality.
Grainy picture, camera shake, bad audio and poorly lit videos drive me crazy. I don't find them acceptable and they won't be on GeekPlug.com. So I don't want to put a demo up that suggests that is what we will be producing.
So to everyone demanding a demo video, be patient, it's coming this week.
You are trying to get donations for a website dedicated to wargaming, but only the wargames of your choice, and this is the following setup right now:
You have no videos, or articles
You don't even have a camera
You tell us what you will do, but we have no way of knowing you are going to. (possible kickstarter scam, which I remember is something to be worried about)
So.
If you want donations, then prove you can provide high quality content, and have some before asking for donations. As it stands even though your ideas are sound, I see no reason why I should donate. Your videos could be full of awful internet memes and you guys playing/teaching table top games, or it could be amazing, insightful, and spot on commentary.
If you are concerned about putting up bad looking videos, then put them up anyway and add a disclaimer to the videos about the image quality. Then if your site actually works, place all those videos that helped you get started in a special section on the site, and focus on the fundamentals of all the wargames, and explain them.
As i said in my personal message to you i think your project is interesting and wish you the best of luck. After reading this thread i am glad you are taking the great advice of doing at least one demo. I have been very open minded while reading the thread and i genuinely didn't see any trolling for ph34r.
Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.
That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.
My point being that if they were to now request help there would be a massive amount of people chomping at the bit to fund them. That is all ph34r and others were trying to tell you. You must keep an open mind with community projects like this, if perspective funders/customers/viewers are passionately advising you to do something a different way you have to go with the flow.
Anyway, i didn't want to labour the point but i think i sadly have. I will move on now, i'm glad you are making a demo and i'm interested to see how it goes.
Oh, a pet peeve of mine which will drive me away from funding and normally stop me reading(i persevered on this occasion): Syntax, grammar and spelling. Too many mistakes put me off very quickly. I'd suggest you check everything again so you don't put other people off.
I hope this all doesn't come off very negative. I sincerely wish for your project to go well, i'd certainly like to see someone replace Beasts of War(well, Darrell at least).
Emerett wrote:You just seem angry at this point, you are providing nothing constructive.
There are other people here that actually seem interested in a project like the one we are Kickstarting, so I will spend my time talking with them.
He is right though, if you are serious about this, a 600 dollar camera with a multi-zoom lense from target plus a tripod to mount it on is not that hard to come by. You don't have to rent a 1500 dollar plus camera to invest in your own business so as to show others that they are not just throwing money at you so you can use that. Put your own money into it, and people will come to.
I like this idea, but I don't particularly feel like giving money to it sight unseen. So far it seems like you guys have a pretty ambitious plan, and to be frank I have seen a lot of similar things sort of go nowhere or turn into something that I don't like. As ph34r and others have pointed out, if you were to post up a test video or two that would give me a better reason to contribute to your business.
I must agree, the request for donations, massive logos on everything, and even that massive signature, all while being completely unproven and without an iota of cachet, comes across as a tad obnoxious.
I feel like this community is constantly preyed on by people who have business start ups, take a lot of people's money and then scams everyone. We just got done with that whole 'pay it forward' and the 'bulk groupon' sites who ended up taking everyone's money in a similar fashion.
If you are serious about this 'teaching players how to game' I assume you are looking into a learning management system to house your curriculum right? No point in re-inventing the wheel when you are basically working on a system of teaching techniques and rules via the web. If you are actually serious about this as a business model, is this going to be a subscription-based site? How do you make money via this site and how does it help anyone considering there are literally hundreds of blogs on the net telling us how to play these games and the tactics behind them for free due to website advertising.
The only kickstarters I see as worthy of the risk are ones where artists are selling models and should they reach production I can get a physical good for my money. I echo Ph34r and Omegus and considering all the thefts and scams perpetrated on the Dakka community, I think people need to be convinced as they are right to be skeptical.
I'm not a MOD but i would suggest that although this is all well and good i would like everyone to stray on the side of caution.
Constructive criticism is great but loosely implied accusations and nae saying isn't going to do anyone any good. This thread is starting to tread the line into those territories. I'd just like to ask anyone considering posting to take that into account before they click the big shiny submit button.
Casey's Law wrote:I'm not a MOD but i would suggest that although this is all well and good i would like everyone to stray on the side of caution.
Constructive criticism is great but loosely implied accusations and nae saying isn't going to do anyone any good. This thread is starting to tread the line into those territories. I'd just like to ask anyone considering posting to take that into account before they click the big shiny submit button.
I have yet to see any loosely implied accusations in this thread.
People are been careful for good reasons.
Casey's Law wrote:I'm not a MOD but i would suggest that although this is all well and good i would like everyone to stray on the side of caution.
Constructive criticism is great but loosely implied accusations and nae saying isn't going to do anyone any good. This thread is starting to tread the line into those territories. I'd just like to ask anyone considering posting to take that into account before they click the big shiny submit button.
I have yet to see any loosely implied accusations in this thread. People are been careful for good reasons.
I'm not arguing with anyone, dude, just requesting caution. I have posted here myself if you read the first page. What i wouldn't like to see is this turning into something it wasn't intended to be. I don't think he has gone about this in the best way but that doesn't mean we can't be constructive and positive where possible. I'm sure you agree.
Back on topic(pm me or open a new thread to continue this topic):
nkelsch wrote:I feel like this community is constantly preyed on by people who have business start ups, take a lot of people's money and then scams everyone. We just got done with that whole 'pay it forward' and the 'bulk groupon' sites who ended up taking everyone's money in a similar fashion.
If you are serious about this 'teaching players how to game' I assume you are looking into a learning management system to house your curriculum right? No point in re-inventing the wheel when you are basically working on a system of teaching techniques and rules via the web. If you are actually serious about this as a business model, is this going to be a subscription-based site? How do you make money via this site and how does it help anyone considering there are literally hundreds of blogs on the net telling us how to play these games and the tactics behind them for free due to website advertising.
The only kickstarters I see as worthy of the risk are ones where artists are selling models and should they reach production I can get a physical good for my money. I echo Ph34r and Omegus and considering all the thefts and scams perpetrated on the Dakka community, I think people need to be convinced as they are right to be skeptical.
Can you give some examples of the scams you are referencing? I'm just curious because I haven't heard of any scams, especially any that affected members here on Dakka.
Where did it ever reference this kickstarter as a business? In fact using Kickstarter to fund a business is against their site guidelines. This is a project, which is what Kickstarter is designed for. I mentioned this earlier, as I really can't stand that people are uninformed to a websites's primary function, and then question why someone using the website for the intended function. I'll refer you to Kickstarter's own policy:
Kickstarter wrote:
Project Guidelines
Kickstarter is a funding platform made especially for creative projects, and our guidelines support that focus. We've shaped these guidelines with the interest of our community in mind, and we appreciate you working with us to maintain them.
Funding for projects only. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.
Projects must fit Kickstarter's categories. Kickstarter can be used to fund projects from the creative fields of Art, Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, and Theater. We currently only support projects from these categories.
No charity or cause funding. Examples of prohibited use include raising money for the Red Cross, funding an awareness campaign, funding a scholarship, or donating a portion of funds raised on Kickstarter to a charity or cause.
No "fund my life" projects. Examples include projects to pay tuition or bills, go on vacation, or buy a new camera.
No prohibited items or subject matter. There are some things we just don't allow on Kickstarter. Please review our list of prohibited items and subject matter, which includes things like contests, raffles, drugs, and other specific topics.
So clearly, this is a project, and not a business.
If you are interested in paying money for a good or service, I would suggest going out and buying those items as normal. This is not the purpose of Kickstarter. If you look at any Kickstarter with the desire to receive something in return for your donation, in many cases there will be some return, but there doesn't necessarily have to be. If the idea of funding a project doesn't appeal to you, just move on. The project isn't for you.
I think referencing this as a potential scam is ridiculous. It's fine to be cautious, but to you go into the Dakka Swap Shop and ask every poster if they are a scam artist? I would hope not. And just as Dakka is not responsible for any scams that may take place in the Swap Shop, they aren't responsible for scams through Kickstarter. They have their own security measures in place, and if you are unsure if those measures are sufficient to protect against fraud, you are free to not participate in the service of that website.
I would like to point out they are offering some kick ass incentives that do make me think they are legitimately interested in getting people playing and that they plan to pay back those getting them started with good rewards.
Look here..
175$
Warhammer 40k, Warmachine, or Fantasy starter sets so you and a friend can learn to play. Comes fully painted to your specifications and will include 2 shirts one for you and one for your friend. Stickers and thank you included. — Add $10 for orders from outside the U.S.
If this means a starter set for both you and a friend.. this is outstanding, the massive discount aside. (It's going to be minimum 200$ for two starter sets) It comes painted already for you and a friend to play. Seems to me like just making a buck isnt their incentive here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do wonder though...
Do Kickstarter incentives still apply if the goal isn't reached?
Well by the 'rules' it doesnt appear like this is even a valid kick starter as it is basically a 'fund my life' kick starter when asking to fund a camera purchase and website. I am not sure a video blog of how to play 40k counts as artistic film. And the website and videos is all open ended which is also not meeting the standards. The nature of a website requires hosting which is open ended and ongoing.
At least war games kick starts which produce minis or terrain at least make art.
And the scams are well documented and well known. It should be pretty clear what they were along with the numerous 'I'll paint your stuff' scams. Literally googling 'pay it forward' on dakkadakka shows it all. Buyer beware... There is already plenty of people giving tactics for war games with video blogs and websites who don't want me to buy them an HD camera and recording equipment for them.
So clearly, this is a project, and not a business.
Strictly speaking, you are right, yet that is just dwelling on semantics.
Like a business and investments ( since there ARE money involved ) there has to be a clear presented formulated plan.
Promise of growth, and returns for the investors ( or in this case for everyone in the community as well )
Or else, the "project" would be pointless, e.g would you like to donate me $20 for a GW project I want to do? Under your own mouth, you should be obligated to say "yes"
but I doubt it'll be that easy :'P
Im not saying OP did nothing, quite on the contrary I rather like their products.
Yet to many that have raised the concerns, if it does fail, all they are left are these products,
products with a logo that failed on it ( not saying it will, but its their worry )
Thunderfrog wrote:I would like to point out they are offering some kick ass incentives that do make me think they are legitimately interested in getting people playing and that they plan to pay back those getting them started with good rewards.
Look here..
175$
Warhammer 40k, Warmachine, or Fantasy starter sets so you and a friend can learn to play. Comes fully painted to your specifications and will include 2 shirts one for you and one for your friend. Stickers and thank you included. — Add $10 for orders from outside the U.S.
If this means a starter set for both you and a friend.. this is outstanding, the massive discount aside. (It's going to be minimum 200$ for two starter sets) It comes painted already for you and a friend to play. Seems to me like just making a buck isnt their incentive here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do wonder though...
Do Kickstarter incentives still apply if the goal isn't reached?
I think you misunderstood. I think they're offering one starter box of your choice, from the list which they will paint and send to you with two t-shirts.
Well by the 'rules' it doesnt appear like this is even a valid kick starter as it is basically a 'fund my life' kick starter when asking to fund a camera purchase and website. I am not sure a video blog of how to play 40k counts as artistic film. And the website and videos is all open ended which is also not meeting the standards. The nature of a website requires hosting which is open ended and ongoing.
At least war games kick starts which produce minis or terrain at least make art.
And the scams are well documented and well known. It should be pretty clear what they were along with the numerous 'I'll paint your stuff' scams. Buyer beware... There is already plenty of people giving tactics for war games with video blogs and websites who don't want me to buy them an HD camera and recording equipment for them.
Far be it from you to decide what is art or a project and what isn't. It touches on Games, Art, and Film.. although the latter is a stretch. The end goal here isn't his camera and website. The camera and website are the means to his end goal, which is laid out below and several times throughout the thread.
I don't understand the need to nega-bomb everything. There's a few posters in here that are all over the thoughts of returns on investment and the laziness of the OP.
Point is this: He is using Kickstarter to ask for help with a project. His project vision is having his own website where he regularly gives advice and tactica on how to play various games. He doesn't like the current sites out there as he feels their terrible production value detracts from their message. He isn't asking for stockholders or people to put up capital on a new business. He wants people interested in this project in accordance with his vision to help him out. For those that do, he will offer them advice on a very personal level in regards to their own army and favorite play style...and models, many of them painted as a way of saying thank you.
If you don't like his project, that's okay, but you are seriously detracting from his efforts by posting so much negative in here. Just because you don't think it's a worthy or well enough compensated kickstarter doesnt give you the right to spam his thread in hopes you will contribute to his projects downfall. That's just petty and holier-than-thou.
I think you misunderstood. I think they're offering one starter box of your choice, from the list which they will paint and send to you with two t-shirts.
I don't know. It specifially says "starter sets so you can a friend cand learn to play."
I don't know. It specifially says "starter sets so you can a friend cand learn to play."
@OP
Any clarification on this level incentive?
It's the "or" in the list that leads me to believe the "s", in "sets" was a mistake. With that many starters, all painted, it would cost them substantially more than the donation amount, and that's without considering the time involved in painting it all. Realistically speaking, that's not doable for them and for them to still make any money out of it.
Do Kickstarter incentives still apply if the goal isn't reached?
If the goal is not reached, the project does not go forward, and no money exchanges hands. The person you launched the Kickstarter is not obligated to follow through with the incentives, just as the backers are not obligated to give the money they pledged.
nkelsch wrote:Well by the 'rules' it doesnt appear like this is even a valid kick starter as it is basically a 'fund my life' kick starter when asking to fund a camera purchase and website. I am not sure a video blog of how to play 40k counts as artistic film. And the website and videos is all open ended which is also not meeting the standards. The nature of a website requires hosting which is open ended and ongoing.
At least war games kick starts which produce minis or terrain at least make art.
And the scams are well documented and well known. It should be pretty clear what they were along with the numerous 'I'll paint your stuff' scams. Buyer beware... There is already plenty of people giving tactics for war games with video blogs and websites who don't want me to buy them an HD camera and recording equipment for them.
Yeah, because running a website is somehow funding one's life? A project can be any number of things, and helping to create a game system that someone profits off of is way more "funding my life' than a website than provides tutorials for games. In any event, why don't we leave the validity of the project to Kickstarter, and not you.
OK, so not providing a single, specific example.
Obviously this project is not for you, so why not just move on? I would do the same myself, as I have no real investment in this specific project, aside form seeing videos on games I haven't had the opportunity to see played. I think the larger issue here, is people who clearly do not understand what Kickstarter is for are pouncing on someone using the site for its purpose, and all I can imagine coming of this is discouraging others from trying Kickstarters themselves.
LunaHound wrote:
Cadaver wrote:
So clearly, this is a project, and not a business.
Strictly speaking, you are right, yet that is just dwelling on semantics.
Like a business and investments ( since there ARE money involved ) there has to be a clear presented formulated plan.
Promise of growth, and returns for the investors ( or in this case for everyone in the community as well )
Or else, the "project" would be pointless, e.g would you like to donate me $20 for a GW project I want to do? Under your own mouth, you should be obligated to say "yes"
but I doubt it'll be that easy :'P
Im not saying OP did nothing, quite on the contrary I rather like their products.
Yet to many that have raised the concerns, if it does fail, all they are left are these products,
products with a logo that failed on it ( not saying it will, but its their worry )
No one is obligated to do anything, and that's my larger point. If you don't like it, don't donate. If it's not for you, move on.
If you're just in it for the swag, again, don't donate. The intention of funding a Kickstarter project is to support something you think has potential. There is no guarantee that initial support of that project entails ongoing support.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nkelsch wrote:The raffle aspect is also against the rules of kick starter.
If you want to go taddle on them, there is a contact form on Kickstarter's website. Why not follow up with this there instead of wasting everyone's time here?
You obviously don't like this project, and aren't giving your money to them, so move on. Do you really have nothing better to do with your time?
Same could be said for you... You have nothing better than to carry other people's water for them? Work stands for itself. If there was some evidence or examples of what people would be supporting, maybe people would feel better about this, especially since there are loads of legitimate reasons to be skeptical.
People have valid criticisms and constructive suggestions which have been met with, "your a troll, why you mad bro! Only support is allowed in this thread!"
Know what shuts people up? A good video with content which shows what people should expect. The content can be achieved without expensive cameras and if this is a labor of love, show us some examples, and if it fills a need in the community the support will overflow.
All it seems that people want is minimal effort to show this is legit and actually to get a taste of what they would be supporting opposed to a bunch of thirst of a brand which stands for a product we don't even know what it is yet.
nkelsch wrote:Same could be said for you... You have nothing better than to carry other people's water for them? Work stands for itself. If there was some evidence or examples of what people would be supporting, maybe people would feel better about this, especially since there are loads of legitimate reasons to be skeptical.
People have valid criticisms and constructive suggestions which have been met with, "your a troll, why you mad bro! Only support is allowed in this thread!"
Know what shuts people up? A good video with content which shows what people should expect. The content can be achieved without expensive cameras and if this is a labor of love, show us some examples, and if it fills a need in the community the support will overflow.
All it seems that people want is minimal effort to show this is legit and actually to get a taste of what they would be supporting opposed to a bunch of thirst of a brand which stands for a product we don't even know what it is yet.
No, I do have better things to do, so this will be my last post on the subject. However, it does bother me that people that people criticize something, in this case, the legitimacy of this project as a Kickstarter, yet they have no idea what the purpose of a Kickstarter is.
If you don't like the project, don't give your money to support it. You don't need to insinuate it could be a scam or post that it breaks Kickstarter rules, which you had no clue what they even were until I quoted them in this thread.
Those are not valid or constructive criticisms, plain and simple. There has been plenty of constructive criticism in this thread, but your comments have not been among them.
You are the one who posted a wall of text about rules and kick starter legitimacy. You posted the rules which then showed by kick starters own rules it isn't a valid kick starter to begin with.
nkelsch wrote:You are the one who posted a wall of text about rules and kick starter legitimacy. You posted the rules which then showed by kick starters own rules it isn't a valid kick starter to begin with.
You're wrong. Normally I use lighter phrases like .. "You might be mistaken." or " Try reading it again mate!" .. but in this case, you are just flat wrong.
I referenced earlier just exactly WHY this project doesnt break the rules. There's nothing that breaks the Kickstarter terms of use with this project.
nkelsch wrote:I feel like this community is constantly preyed on by people who have business start ups, take a lot of people's money and then scams everyone. We just got done with that whole 'pay it forward' and the 'bulk groupon' sites who ended up taking everyone's money in a similar fashion.
If you are serious about this 'teaching players how to game' I assume you are looking into a learning management system to house your curriculum right? No point in re-inventing the wheel when you are basically working on a system of teaching techniques and rules via the web. If you are actually serious about this as a business model, is this going to be a subscription-based site? How do you make money via this site and how does it help anyone considering there are literally hundreds of blogs on the net telling us how to play these games and the tactics behind them for free due to website advertising.
The only kickstarters I see as worthy of the risk are ones where artists are selling models and should they reach production I can get a physical good for my money. I echo Ph34r and Omegus and considering all the thefts and scams perpetrated on the Dakka community, I think people need to be convinced as they are right to be skeptical.
Just for clarification - Pay it forward has nothing to do with GalaxyGobbo/Games that was someone else/another venture.
Also we did not end up taking anyone's money without delivery of product.. Supply issues did delay people's orders - they were either fulfilled or refunded.
Just wanted to clear the air. There were and are no scams with what we had done. (I talk to several dakka trade staff, they'd let me know if this was the case)
We closed shop due to lack of supplier, until another time upcoming. We had an idea and we flew with it and tried it out.
I understand what you mean though in regards to this topic on kickstarter and alike however.
frozenwastes wrote:I actually like the idea of a webpage like this. I've "starred" the project and will see if I can find some money in the budget to help out.
What I would suggest though, is getting your hands on any camera (even 240p) and put a video up on Youtube or something. Concentrate on getting the presentation, camera work and editing up to snuff and worry about going high-res once you have enough to cover the camera.
We have one scheduled to be rented on Monday, after shooting and editing I will be able to have a demo up on the Kickstarter page by Thursday.
People keep suggesting that we just buy a cheap camera to do some demos on (which we have a couple of), but I am very concerned that if I put up a low quality demo video, that donators may think that will be the final quality.
Grainy picture, camera shake, bad audio and poorly lit videos drive me crazy. I don't find them acceptable and they won't be on GeekPlug.com. So I don't want to put a demo up that suggests that is what we will be producing.
So to everyone demanding a demo video, be patient, it's coming this week.
I think what people are trying to tell you is that before they invest in a podcast site they want to know what your podcasts would be like. You can have a slick presentation and still have a podcast / video that sucks. To be honest I'm not even sure you need the video so much as some good audio that is representative of what you are looking to do. This will give potential investors something to gauge their interest on.
Not sure that you really need to go over a game that will never be supported, and is only obtainable via ebay. The same could be said for BFG, but I've actually seen people play BFG and discuss it with some regularity.
It's still a GW product and GW is big, so lots of people will be looking it up. May as well support it.
Then why not LOTR/WOTR?
We are only covering games on launch that someone at the teams plays.
None of us currently play LOTRWOTR, so we can't promise that we will have a full understanding of the rules at launch.
It will happen in the future, but I can't promise that it will within spring of this year.
So really instead of this being "Geek Plug" this is really just "GW Plug"
Yeah GW is big. That's one reason to let them do their own damn marketing and explore options that could and should compete with them.
I understand only concentrating on what you enjoy, but if you are asking for crowd funding then you will get more hits by broadening your and others horizons beyond the narrow and constricting walls of GW products.
Hellfury wrote:So really instead of this being "Geek Plug" this is really just "GW Plug"
Yeah GW is big. That's one reason to let them do their own damn marketing and explore options that could and should compete with them.
I understand only concentrating on what you enjoy, but if you are asking for crowd funding then you will get more hits by broadening your and others horizons beyond the narrow and constricting walls of GW products.
Just some constructive criticism.
Interesting criticism, Hellfury - out of interest, did you go and look at the list of games on the Kickstarter page?
GeekPlug Kickstarter wrote:Warhammer
Warhammer 40,000
Warmachine
Hordes
Flames of War
Mailfaux
Infinity
Super Dungeon Explorer Blood Bowl
Dreadfleet
Inquisitor
Necromunda
Mordheim
Battlefleet Gothic
Battletech
If your intention was to claim that this was solely to plug GW products, you're a little bit wide of the mark. Out of the fifteen games listed, seven are non-GW products.
Hellfury wrote:So really instead of this being "Geek Plug" this is really just "GW Plug"
Yeah GW is big. That's one reason to let them do their own damn marketing and explore options that could and should compete with them.
I understand only concentrating on what you enjoy, but if you are asking for crowd funding then you will get more hits by broadening your and others horizons beyond the narrow and constricting walls of GW products.
Just some constructive criticism.
Interesting criticism, Hellfury - out of interest, did you go and look at the list of games on the Kickstarter page?
GeekPlug Kickstarter wrote:Warhammer
Warhammer 40,000
Warmachine
Hordes
Flames of War
Mailfaux
Infinity
Super Dungeon Explorer Blood Bowl
Dreadfleet
Inquisitor
Necromunda
Mordheim
Battlefleet Gothic
Battletech
If your intention was to claim that this was solely to plug GW products, you're a little bit wide of the mark. Out of the fifteen games listed, seven are non-GW products.
Yeah I did read the page. But when they are promoting games such as Dreadfleet where it was such a dismal commercial failure that GW took that game out to the pasture and shot it, it makes one wonder why potential backers should fund this project when other great games could very well be promoted instead.
Lots of great games out there. If you were to promote defunct effectively defunct games, there are a myriad to choose from instead of the dreck that GW pound down outr collective throats.
Which is why the remark about not being Geek Plug but GW Plug was made. Which I really have no problem with, but do not pretend to be an all encompassing geek related site when you are just promoting the most popular games that everyone already knows how to play to begin with.
Why do they already know how to play these games? Because of sites such as Dakka which have been in existence for 15+ years.
The service is redundant and frankly unneeded if they are just going to promote the most popular games or even the most unpopular games from a popular game company. Plenty of sites abound that provide this service already which are funded by ads and voluntary memberships.
I wont go so far as to say "shills" but I will go so far as to say that they are missing a wide market by concentrating their efforts in a way that matters little if at all.
The best way for them to be a great service worthy of funding, is to provide a service to games that need promotion. I am not alone in this sentiment which is why so many people have remarked on this point already, in their own way.
nkelsch wrote:Same could be said for you... You have nothing better than to carry other people's water for them?
Ugh, if I had a dollar for every time the tired old "water carrier" line was wheeled out on dakka as a substitute for an actual debate...
Person X: This thing sucks!
Person Y: Well, actually it's not that bad because..
Person X: Person Y, you are just a water-carrying fanboi brown-noser who is probably being paid by the makers of the thing!
^ How to have an "adult" discussion on dakkadakka 101.
I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.
Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.
That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.
Casey's Law wrote:I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.
Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.
That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.
I'm happy they're doing well. Without a link, I'll just have to trust you.
I don't see a question there however, so there's not much to answer.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nkelsch wrote:The raffle aspect is also against the rules of kick starter.
The raffle has nothing to do with the actual Kickstarter. Kickstarter doesn't allow you to sell "tickets" giving you a chance to win something at the end of the project schedule. We are merely offering the raffle to help promote our name and give something away to people supporting us by liking us on Facebook or spreading the word on Twitter. It is completely compartmentalized away from Kickstarter, any layman should be able to see this.
Since a lot of people here seem to be questioning the legitimacy of our project, I will cover a few things.
The Kickstarter approval process is very slow and precise. We spent roughly a week waiting on approval. During this time, two different people from Kickstarter contacted us to discuss what we were doing with GeekPlug and what kind of site it would be. We fall well within their guidelines. Anyone here that seems to think otherwise, feel free to contact Kickstarter, I'm sure they would love to hear your opinion.
If we were doing anything against Kickstarters guidelines, the project wouldn't have launched.
GeekPlug is a project for the community. We are not trying to get rich off of this. The site will be ad free. The podcast will have ads to cover the enormous bandwidth costs that a hour long high definition podcast will have. They will not be intrusive and will be well defined. I feel like this is a fair trade.
Simply put: We live in Montana, every game store here focuses primarly on Magic the Gathering. They all sell Warhammer to some extent, but almost nobody plays. Most of the people we met and talked to said they would play if the games were easier to learn. So we decided to start this project.
People keep saying "Well how will you be different from X" "What will you do different from Y", Emerett has spent a lot of time trying to explain this, but it seems to be going in one ear and out the other for a lot of people in this thread. So I will avoid that topic all together and try to take another approach that more people may be able to grasp.
Competition is good, maybe we will be similar to other sites in some ways, but that will only make both sites better.
Competition inspires innovation and that is exactly what wargaming needs.
So let me get this straight, if I go with, say, the $50 pledge, do I have to supply the HQ model to be painted, or is it included? Cuz if it's included, that's a hell of deal...
arguemaniac wrote:So let me get this straight, if I go with, say, the $50 pledge, do I have to supply the HQ model to be painted, or is it included? Cuz if it's included, that's a hell of deal...
Also, are the models on the kickstarter page indicative of the quality of paintjob we'd get?
arguemaniac wrote:So let me get this straight, if I go with, say, the $50 pledge, do I have to supply the HQ model to be painted, or is it included? Cuz if it's included, that's a hell of deal...
The model will be included within reason some HQ's are around 60 dollars and the pledge is only 50 so those wouldn't be an option. feel free to Pm me with any specific questions about an HQ.
Also, are the models on the kickstarter page indicative of the quality of paintjob we'd get?
Yes all models will be painted to our standards which are the same as the ones sampled on Kickstarter page.
kur0n wrote:People keep saying "Well how will you be different from X" "What will you do different from Y", Emerett has spent a lot of time trying to explain this, but it seems to be going in one ear and out the other for a lot of people in this thread. So I will avoid that topic all together and try to take another approach that more people may be able to grasp.
Competition is good, maybe we will be similar to other sites in some ways, but that will only make both sites better.
Competition inspires innovation and that is exactly what wargaming needs.
This strikes me as a serious disconnect with what this site purports to provide. You are not a business competing with other for profit, but rather part of a larger gamer community. The key "c" word should be collaboration, not competition.
Your statement has made me even more suspicious/dismissive of this whole venture.
kur0n wrote:People keep saying "Well how will you be different from X" "What will you do different from Y", Emerett has spent a lot of time trying to explain this, but it seems to be going in one ear and out the other for a lot of people in this thread. So I will avoid that topic all together and try to take another approach that more people may be able to grasp.
Competition is good, maybe we will be similar to other sites in some ways, but that will only make both sites better.
Competition inspires innovation and that is exactly what wargaming needs.
This strikes me as a serious disconnect with what this site purports to provide. You are not a business competing with other for profit, but rather part of a larger gamer community. The key "c" word should be collaboration, not competition.
Your statement has made me even more suspicious/dismissive of this whole venture.
Parsing the words of non-professional spokesmen is ridiculous. He makes a valid point don't purposefully turn it into something it obviously wasn't meant to be. If you don't like their idea don't contribute (that is what I am choosing to do) but stop making ridiculous accusations and stick with valid criticism.
Casey's Law wrote:I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.
Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.
That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.
Cadaver wrote:
Emerett, it's cool you are doing the "big three" but perhaps focusing on the smaller games like Malifaux, Dark Age, GW specialist games as well would nice. Most folks know generally about the bigger games, and I not saying don't cover them. However, providing tutorials on games people may be hesitant to get into for no other reason than lack of exposure might draw more attention. In any event, I wish you and your team the best of luck!
Seconding this.
When Beasts of War did their Infinity stuff it really increased the interest in that game.
Yup, when I first saw the game passed it off as garbage.
arguemaniac wrote:So let me get this straight, if I go with, say, the $50 pledge, do I have to supply the HQ model to be painted, or is it included? Cuz if it's included, that's a hell of deal...
The model will be included within reason some HQ's are around 60 dollars and the pledge is only 50 so those wouldn't be an option. feel free to Pm me with any specific questions about an HQ.
Also, are the models on the kickstarter page indicative of the quality of paintjob we'd get?
Yes all models will be painted to our standards which are the same as the ones sampled on Kickstarter page.
I was just using the painted HQ as an example, I just wanted to clarify whether we had to supply the model. I'm actually thinking about the $175 perk, I'm dying to get into Warmachine, but just can't bring myself to start a new army untill my 40K Ork army is painted (which is taking FOREVER!!). Seem's like this might be a nice loop-hole for me...
Oh I'm with you on the "within reason" bit, I know kickstarter is about raising funds for your project, NOT spending the money on perks! Not looking to put one over on ya or anything.
I hope your site is a success, and I'm sure I'll be thrilled with my perk (I'm not hard to please). Expect a serious donation very soon...
Casey's Law wrote:I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.
Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.
That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.
I'm happy they're doing well. Without a link, I'll just have to trust you.
I don't see a question there however, so there's not much to answer.
Could I enquire as to this chap's name?
I was hoping you guys at Geek Plug would have read that and thought, "Hey, maybe we don't need to get any cash funding right now! Lets try another route." I was trying to cut through all the other angry posts for you. If you could have given a response to my post about why you haven't done things the way i showed was possible then i thought it would have answered everyones questions in one go.
As it stands i'm quite disappointed in your reply as it doesn't come across as very professional even although i was one of the few not attacking your idea.
@4oursword - A link would have been a good idea i suppose. I don't know why i didn't provide one before, i think i was trying not to drag 'her' into the conversation the way the thread was going.
Since the rule of the internet is 'proof or it never happened!' : Here is a link to Joey's wonderful channel.
Ya know I was looking at the profile of the guy who started the Geektube Kickstarter campaign, and it appears he himself has help fund like 9 other projects. Sounds like a guy who really believes in the whole Kickstarter process. It certainly doesn't seem like he's just begging for a hand-out (how many beggers give their money to others?) and it's pretty clear this is not some sort of scam either.
It's worth repeating, don't contribute if you hate kickstarter/think its a scam/don't believe the project will succeed/dislike their presentation, etc. Whatever you do, stop complaining...
Casey's Law wrote:I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.
Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.
That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.
I'm happy they're doing well. Without a link, I'll just have to trust you. I don't see a question there however, so there's not much to answer.
Could I enquire as to this chap's name?
I was hoping you guys at Geek Plug would have read that and thought, "Hey, maybe we don't need to get any cash funding right now! Lets try another route." I was trying to cut through all the other angry posts for you. If you could have given a response to my post about why you haven't done things the way i showed was possible then i thought it would have answered everyones questions in one go. As it stands i'm quite disappointed in your reply as it doesn't come across as very professional even although i was one of the few not attacking your idea.
@4oursword - A link would have been a good idea i suppose. I don't know why i didn't provide one before, i think i was trying not to drag 'her' into the conversation the way the thread was going. Since the rule of the internet is 'proof or it never happened!' : Here is a link to Joey's wonderful channel.
I don't know why people can't grasp that this isn't a business, it's a project. They don't have a PR staff, they don't have a publicist, they aren't expected to be overly PC to someone who is obviously trying to either disuade them from taking the path they've chosen or is just giving them unwarranted gak for no reason.
"I was hoping you guys at Geek Plug would have read that and thought, "Hey, maybe we don't need to get any cash funding right now! Lets try another route."
Really? This is the kind of stuff that's really riling me up in this thread, and I'm not even donating. It isn't your job to convince them to abandon their kickstarter project because you have a chum doing it differently. Because they didn't take your advice and stuck to their goals you really felt the need to drop back into the thread and tell them how dissapointed you are they didn't abandon the whole thing? Let them run their Kickstart! Let them run their project! They don't need a million naysayers dropping in and saying nay over and over again.
Just saw this thread now. Wow. Funny conversation.
My thoughts:
Show some commitment and proof of concept -
1) Buy yourself a HD camcorder. They only cost a few hundred.
1a) Show you're serious before asking for money.
2) Write a script.
3) Film one of your videos.
scipio.au wrote:Just saw this thread now. Wow. Funny conversation.
My thoughts:
Show some commitment and proof of concept -
1) Buy yourself a HD camcorder. They only cost a few hundred.
1a) Show you're serious before asking for money.
2) Write a script.
3) Film one of your videos.
How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...
Sorry bub, but this thread doesn't need any more complainers.
How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...
He did ask for suggestions though, and we are still yet to see anything, im quite interested me, but i want to see something before i start chipping in, these things need more than just good intentions.
How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...
He did ask for suggestions though, and we are still yet to see anything, im quite interested me, but i want to see something before i start chipping in, these things need more than just good intentions.
Guys, come on, i'm cracking up here. If you had actually read the thread you would have seen that, if anything, i was in defense of the project and even pm'd Emerett wishing him all the best.
I was trying to help them get things sorted because i had just done it for someone else. Angry comments were made toward them so i suggested a way they could calm their consumers and optimize the execution of their idea. The reply i received wasn't professional. Being professional isn't just something you have to do at work, once you involve money and propose a project then you have to put up a good front.
This conversation has descended into the ridiculous. The very fact that i'm now being berated for, 'complaining,' is mind bogglingly detached from reality. If Geek Plug would actually like intelligent and logical feedback and support then they can pm me privately and i'd happily get involved, i have no interest in being associated with this thread. If i may quote Robert May, ahem, "That would look great on your CV, not so good on mine."
P.S. Quick angry people! This is where you get in the last word because i won't come back and make a fool of you.
scipio.au wrote:Just saw this thread now. Wow. Funny conversation.
My thoughts:
Show some commitment and proof of concept -
1) Buy yourself a HD camcorder. They only cost a few hundred.
1a) Show you're serious before asking for money.
2) Write a script.
3) Film one of your videos.
How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...
Sorry bub, but this thread doesn't need any more complainers.
I'm actually being constructive there, if a little glib. HD video cameras are quite cheap these days. Anyone with a reasonable job should be able to buy one without much hassle, particularly anyone with a passing interest in videography. "We're too poor" is hardly a good excuse in a hobby as expensive and, let's face it - frivolous as this one. I'm not really a complainer, but let's look at it logically - there's tons of free wargaming video content on YouTube. There's Beasts of War, which is mostly free.
If some guy who only joined Dakka a couple of months ago wants to come in with his hand held out for money, I think it's fair enough to expect to see at least a proof of concept and their own commitment to their project before pledging cent one. Rather than, you know "HAI GUYZ! Please give us money, because we'll be awesome! - Much better than all of those other guys who aren't asking you for money! We just need (you) to buy (us) a camera first!"
On another model forum I frequent, one of the regular posters is a really, really talented photographer. Whenever he photographed figures that he'd bought or loaned from a friend and posted them, you'd see 2-3 pages of compliments. His work made/makes the models look better than the careful prototype/advertisement shots put out by the actual companies. One day he had the bright idea of asking the other posters to send him money so he could buy more figures to photograph (these are $80-200+ models) since we all like his photos so much. That met with ...less enthusiasm. Eventually, he got in contact with some of the companies and showed them his work, as well as multiple threads full of stuff like "awesome pics man - I wasn't interested in that fig but it's on my to-buy list now." Now some of the companies send him figures for free to photograph and post the pics.
Point being - he did good work, we all knew how good his work was. When he asked for money, even with that, he met with a negative response as well as suggestions to take care of it himself. He did, and now he's getting it done better than if he'd actually has people happy to send him money. GeekPlug has ...a logo and a Kickstart page.
Hell, look at other Kickstart-type projects here. We're shown renders, proof of concept stuff. Real tangible stuff, which is also indicative of how serious and committed the creators are to their projects.
Rayvon wrote:
He did ask for suggestions though, and we are still yet to see anything, im quite interested me, but i want to see something before i start chipping in, these things need more than just good intentions.
We are in the process of setting up lighting as I type this, filming will begin shortly for the example that has been requested by the community. We will begin editing tonight and should have it up in the next couple days if not tomorrow.
We apologize we couldn't get it up yesterday we fell a little behind schedule.
We just received word from our friends at Corvus Belli, makers of Infinity, that they will be donating five signed rule books and ten pieces of original signed artwork to the GeekPlug project.
So these will be added to our rewards to offer the supporters of this project a very unique opportunity to get their hands on products signed by the Infinity team.
Also, we have put up an example video of one of our starter tutorials. Obviously the video quality is bad, but that is exactly the reason for this Kickstarter.
Background music is distracting, voiceover version will be better.
You spend maybe a little long on each aspect. It's a video, people can pause it if they need to.
that, and the video showing the actual gameplay could be bigger.
BUT: very glad you made an example video, it's one thing to say what you might do, its quite another to actually do it and say "if you donate we can do it better". I'm seriously considering donating now, whereas before it all seemed like a fairly vague pipe dream.
Charax wrote:Background music is distracting, voiceover version will be better.
You spend maybe a little long on each aspect. It's a video, people can pause it if they need to.
that, and the video showing the actual gameplay could be bigger.
BUT: very glad you made an example video, it's one thing to say what you might do, its quite another to actually do it and say "if you donate we can do it better". I'm seriously considering donating now, whereas before it all seemed like a fairly vague pipe dream.
Listening to people: a good idea
I actually dug out my old mixer today to get some audio for the voice over and couldn't get it to work. I'll work on getting a voiced version up and working tomorrow, I wanted to do it today but didn't have the resources.
The smaller video was a result of not having voice over and the absolutely horrible video quality. The video looked even worse at high quality, so I decided to move it over and make the text nice and easy to read. I do apologize about the small frame but I didn't feel like I had much of a choice. The little camera I picked up to do the shooting turned out to take worse video than I expected, even with as much lighting as I could possibly get on it (theres a picture of our setup on the facebook page). Hopefully the Kickstarter works out so we can pick up a D7000 and get you guys some amazingly clear video.
I'm not sure video quality really matters at this stage, to be honest - if it looks a bit grainy, well that's why you need funding!
as it's a demo, you should probably (in my view anyway) try to emulate what you'll be doing with the end product as closely as possible - so if your final product will have full-frame video, that would be a good idea for the demo too.
(oh, and make sure you have licenses for any music you do end up using!)
best of luck - and remember I'm just one person, feel free to ignore me
Charax wrote:I'm not sure video quality really matters at this stage, to be honest - if it looks a bit grainy, well that's why you need funding!
as it's a demo, you should probably (in my view anyway) try to emulate what you'll be doing with the end product as closely as possible - so if your final product will have full-frame video, that would be a good idea for the demo too.
(oh, and make sure you have licenses for any music you do end up using!)
best of luck - and remember I'm just one person, feel free to ignore me
We have permission from the artist to use his music during the Kickstarter campaign, he's actually a pretty rad guy. If the viewers of the site seem to like his stuff, we make work out a deal with him to keep using it.
As much as people in this thread may think we are, we're not actually ignoring anybody. We're taking it all in, listening to what everyone has to say and using it to improve on what we're doing.
I'm currently working on getting the Flash example up on GeekPlug.com.
I will also have to contact Kickstarter to see if it's possible to get it embedded on the Kickstarter page, although I have a feeling it probably won't be possible.
Hmm, that example video is actually pretty helpful. I know I wish I'd seen something like that when starting warmahordes.
My only beef is that often you're measuring movement with the spray template sticking out farther than you're moving, thus getting to measure extra distance! Would be a shame if a new player copied that.
But I was pleasantly surprised at how helpful it was... I personally hate voice-overs so the text on the side was great (I guess that means I'm a visual learner ).
Also, from having spent a summer making math teaching videos, I can emphatically say that making a well done and easily followed video with text rather than voice is much harder and time consuming. So it is very appreciated!
I understand that was an example video and the video quality will be greater, but the fade in/out graphics are terrible. what are you working on, windows media maker?
If you don't have money to buy a decent camera the least you could invest in your own business before asking for more money is good production tools (software).
Also, first mistake as far as business goes: you explain in your "Project by" that "geekplug" is a "group of friends"
A business should never be a group of friends first. that tells me that if i was to invest in your business, I would be investing in a group of "friends" personal video productions group, not a business.
lord marcus wrote:I understand that was an example video and the video quality will be greater, but the fade in/out graphics are terrible. what are you working on, windows media maker?
If you don't have money to buy a decent camera the least you could invest in your own business before asking for more money is good production tools (software).
Also, first mistake as far as business goes: you explain in your "Project by" that "geekplug" is a "group of friends"
A business should never be a group of friends first. that tells me that if i was to invest in your business, I would be investing in a group of "friends" personal video productions group, not a business.
Lord Marcus,
It's fairly obvious you haven't read the whole thread. Just to get you up to speed, there's about 5 posts stating emphaticially that this is not a business. It's a project. It's an undertaking by a group of friends. You aren't investing, you are donating to help fund a web project. (Ideally, one you would be excited about coming to fruition.)
So this
:Also, first mistake as far as business goes: you explain in your "Project by" that "geekplug" is a "group of friends"
lord marcus wrote:I understand that was an example video and the video quality will be greater, but the fade in/out graphics are terrible. what are you working on, windows media maker?
If you don't have money to buy a decent camera the least you could invest in your own business before asking for more money is good production tools (software).
Adobe Premiere Pro. The team has access to everything on the software side necessary to do this project.
I'm sorry to hear you don't like the quality of the video, my background is in photography, I had not worked with Premiere Pro much in the past.
I'm not happy with how it turned out much either and I have been in the process of re-working it ever since I talked with another very helpful Dakka member shortly after it went up. The video was shot the night before and I felt like it was important to get the video out ASAP.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote:Hmm, that example video is actually pretty helpful. I know I wish I'd seen something like that when starting warmahordes.
My only beef is that often you're measuring movement with the spray template sticking out farther than you're moving, thus getting to measure extra distance! Would be a shame if a new player copied that.
But I was pleasantly surprised at how helpful it was... I personally hate voice-overs so the text on the side was great (I guess that means I'm a visual learner ).
Also, from having spent a summer making math teaching videos, I can emphatically say that making a well done and easily followed video with text rather than voice is much harder and time consuming. So it is very appreciated!
We really appreciate the Kind words Tides. Thanks.
Alpharius wrote:So... any pictures of the Infinity artwork yet?
Hey Alpharius we contacted Corvus Belli to try and get you some pictures and I think you will like their response. The artwork will be glossy prints of a piece of art of the backers choice chosen from the art available in the rule books or art available on their website . When the Kickstarter finishes we will get a hold of them to tell them what you want. Because you get to have your choice of artwork we cannot give you an example picture at this time.
Today we passed the 33% mark for our donations, we are very excited about this. Our Kickstarter project is roughly half way done. With 15 days left we are very confident we can hit our goal.
Thanks to input and support from the wargaming community, we were also able to update our rewards with quite a few starter sets that we think people will be excited about.
We have added:
Dreadfleet,
Puppet Wars,
Flames of War,
Lord of the Rings,
Battletech,
Super Dungeon Explore,
starter sets.
We hope you guys are as excited about this as we are.
it is a bit of a specific niche though. I can't really see the appeal either (though the quality is, objectively, good and for those to whom it does appeal, it's probably a great game). there's a lot of us who absolutely just won't ever get it, though
People seemed interested in having a variety of games away from GW, the distributor that is helping us get started suggested it and we agreed it would work.
it is a bit of a specific niche though. I can't really see the appeal either (though the quality is, objectively, good and for those to whom it does appeal, it's probably a great game). there's a lot of us who absolutely just won't ever get it, though
It looks pretty interesting, actually, but I'm sure I would have trouble talking the wargaming buddies to start playing it with me...
).
