49399
Post by: Jamumools
I wrote this email to Workshop this week:
"Dear Games Workshop
I am emailing to complain regarding my recent purchase of this month's White Dwarf.
I have been into "The Hobby" for over 20 years now, including a stint working for Workshop, and had not bought a copy of White Dwarf for some years as, to be honest, I found the articles less and less interesting or relevant. However, with the new paints and Empire releases, both of which I am very excited about, I decided to buy this month's edition. I was extremely disappointed to realise that virtually all of the content is repeated on the website, which is of course free.
I was originally tempted to go into my local store (Leicester) and request a refund but I don't really want to fall out with the staff over this, as it clearly is not their fault.
This did raise a conversation between some buddies of mine as to the relevance of White Dwarf any more. Why bother going to the effort of producing a magazine when most of the material is on the web (clearly the revenue...)? The magazine has fallen a very long way, in my opinion, over the last 5-10 years and really feels much like a catalogue.
I should add I am not a Games Workshop "Hater" as you regularly see on forums such as DakkaDakka and Warseer. I think the models are the best in the world, and new armies are properly released now (with all the models), and I'm really excited about the new paints. I just feel that White Dwarf is a rip off, and as such I request a refund.
Yours faithfully
James"
And received the following reply:
"Hi James,
I am very sorry to hear you did not enjoy this month’s White Dwarf, I am curious as to which articles specifically you are referring that are repeated on the webstie in full? Although we have included a lot of material in White Dwarf and on the web about new paints and Empire I feel only small bits of it overlap which is inevitable when we want to inform people of the new products we have made. The White Dwarf also includes several articles including official rules that can found only in the book including the 40k Deathworld Campaign Rules, part 3 of the Warhammer Civil War Rules and the 40k Battle Report to name but a few. On this basis we will be unable to offer you a refund.
Thanks"
I have to say I could not be more annoyed with this response. The magazine has become such a non event that I hear, from people working at the head office, that the whole White Dwarf team got asked to reapply for their jobs this week. So, when a customer of 20+ years makes a complaint, you think they'd offer the refund even if I was completely wrong. I don't even want to think about the amount of money I've spent on Workshop stuff in that time.
Certainly won't be buying White Dwarf again in a hurry...
/rant over
21853
Post by: mattyrm
Bit daft acting for a refund like mate, I mean.. WD is pretty much what it says on the cover.
I agree its absolute gak though!
I had a 12 month sub bought for me last Christmas and.. well.. I demanded the missus not renew it. The magazine is total dog gak, but I do think you come across as a tight bastard for asking for a refund. 
49399
Post by: Jamumools
I honestly am NOT a tight bastard - especially not on Workshop stuff!!! I just think it is not fair to charge for the magazine and then put it all on the web.
21853
Post by: mattyrm
Fair do's, all I mean is I think I personally couldn't be fethed writing the email and then taking the cheque to the bank for a fiver.
Just do what I did and feth off buying anymore!
49399
Post by: Jamumools
Yeah that is the ultimate plan. I suppose I figured if no-one moans, they'll never change anything...
3802
Post by: chromedog
Why didn't you just flick through it before you bought it.
Like everyone else does.
I haven't bought a WD in over 7 years (I did have a subscription gifted to me for 5-6 years, but that was someone else' money buying it) because of the general downturn in quality of content.
47785
Post by: Lord Poison
I liked the dreadfleet edition [as i call it] I suppose if I wanted to play any new army I'd buy it, but that is never the case
though with the renewing of lord of the rings, they might get a little better.
9877
Post by: WaaaaghLord
I haven't bought a White Dwarf since at least 2004. I pretty much stopped being interested when they stopped including other people's armies and conversions. When they axed Dok Butcha's Convershun Clinik that was pretty much it for me.
Since then it's just been a monthly GW catalogue, no longer care.
7950
Post by: marielle
The fact is that it was never that great as a magazine.
In the current 'culture' of the 'community' promoted by the interwebz, where everything is terrible....
3802
Post by: chromedog
Back in the pre issue 100 days, it was often worth getting. Mind you, back in those days, WD was 95p.
Post ish 250, the downturn/slide started.
4042
Post by: Da Boss
Magazine sales are down in general aren't they?
I would guess that White Dwarf isn't aimed at people like us any more (if it ever was) it's primarily aimed at kids.
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
I'm not sure why most of the creative stuff from WD is now gone. Surely these elements encouraged people to buy more models than 'Shiny advert'
What were you talking about in terms of the WD writers jobs, didn't quite understand that point.
I think asking for a refund was a bit unnecessary.
GW are probably well aware that WD doesn't cater to the same audience any more.
To be fair though, we don't really need WD, we have Dakka. 
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Post by: kitch102
Fair play to you for asking for a refund I say, not because I'd expect you to get anything back, but nothing says "gak, we're doing something wrong here" than a customer demanding their money back!
I'm a subscriber personally, yeah I know it's nowhere near as good as it was in the Paul Sawyer days (that being when I first entered in to the hobby - I think that was his name... nickname "fat bloke"?!) and I frequently wish it would go back to its roots. I keep hanging in there almost expecting a change next month, like its a practical joke, so far I've been proved wrong lol.
So yeah, I'd like to see a step back to 10 years prior, a BR on fantasy and 40k every month, less on LotR (personal view), more painting articles, more "create your own xxxxx" articles... just more good stuff!
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Post by: LordTyphus
When I started right before 5th ed. I was pretty happy with WD, back then it was like $6 or something, I think the last issue I bought was the Island of Blood issue, it was a little before that that I noticed a drop in quality and a hike in price.
For me, it was when they took out the costs of product inorder to not scare people away that marked the turning point for me.
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Post by: btemple0
I used to think White Dwarf was worth the time, just for the little painting session in the back end of it, but then I joined this forum, and got all of my P&M tips from here, for significantly less, so I have not needed to purchase any more of them.
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Post by: Brother SRM
I get the Magazine for free as a perk from my FLGS, and I couldn't be happier with the magazine for how much I pay for it 
All joking aside, the magazine isn't what it used to be going as far back as 2006. From 2006-2009 it was steadily declining, and it kind of plateaued in how bad it was. It's gotten better since then, but not much better. The sprue breakdowns of new models are great, the painting articles are fantastic, and occasionally they'll have something really cool like the Necrons vs. Black Templars campaign from a few issues back that's worth it. It's going back in the right direction right now, but not quick;y enough.
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Post by: Battleworthy Arts
White Dwarf is as good as it ever was. Battle reports, photos of new models, painting articles, goldem demon pics, new rules...
What exactly are you expecting?
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Battle Ready Studios wrote:White Dwarf is as good as it ever was. Battle reports, photos of new models, painting articles, goldem demon pics, new rules...
What exactly are you expecting?
Have you ever read WD's from as recent as six years ago? There used to be a lot more content, a lot more showcases on player and staff armies, converting and customizing articles, WAY better battle reports with more images and in-depth reporting with a lot of staff armies, columns where reader questions were answered, experimental rules for new units, and all the stuff that's in there now. However, this month's issue covering the new paints and the Deathworlds battle missions is pretty cool, and I'll be picking it up.
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Post by: winterdyne
I'll echo the sentiment. Late 80's / very early 90's WD were pretty good. I remember the baneblade templates, numerous terrain projects, WFRP articles. I missed out on the D&D / Runequest inclusive era, but kind of started with the 'decent' GW hobby era.
I bought the latest issue purely for the mini-paint guides, which for me show what I can expect from the new paints. With 3 kids bombing around the house like sugar-fuelled hellions it's hard to get out to try paints duing the day and not catch flak from the wife. I had a subscription for a bit a couple of years back, based on an upsurge of decent masterclass articles, but they rapidly dried up. It's not really a good read these days at all.
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Post by: Kaldor
Print media is dying. Why create aticles to put in a magazine? You have to spend money and time to create them, and then you have to charge money to cover the cost of creating them.
And then some hobbyist with a passion and some spare time creates a better article and puts it up on the web for free.
Whats the point?
It's not a phenomenon limited to White Dwarf, it's evident in almost all publications.
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Post by: LunaHound
Its made for fans with sole purpose of been an expensive advertising pamphlet.
Makes sense to me, why would they do anything about it 0_o?
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Post by: wildboar
Whilst I agree the quality of content put into WD has deteriorated exponentially over the years asking for a refund was a bit futile.
Had they agreed the floodgates would of well and truly opened.
My first WD was issue 176 - I still own it and many of my other 'favourites' attained down the years. It was a thoroughly better product back then. As Brother SRM stated, every single aspect of WD has decreased in quality over the years from painting and modelling guides to battle reports (when did the 'new army' ever lose a Batrep? )
It's fair to say I believe the target market for the mag has shifted from the veteran collectors and gamers to the younger generation. From a business point of view this makes sense for GW. If the veteran gamers and collectors are already hooked and have more disposable income to spend on figures then why not flesh out the mag with a simpler, more catalogue(y) ?? feel and use it to act as revenue stream to draw in new hobbyists? The earlier they can get people into the hobby the more money they can ultimately make.
There is a good chance that the new generation getting into the hobby are as impressed with it as I was when I got my first WD. Hard to say as with age :( my perspective and expectations are different from when I was 11 years old. This may or may not have some bearing on our opinions of WD.
Boar
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Jamumools wrote:I should add I am not a Games Workshop "Hater" as you regularly see on forums such as DakkaDakka and Warseer.
Oh yeah. Way to get everybody 'on side'. Medium of Death wrote:I'm not sure why most of the creative stuff from WD is now gone.
That shouldn't be too hard to figure out. They used to have extensive articles on making terrain, and use it in their battle reports. Now everything is packaged GW terrain played on a RoB board. If they can't sell it pre-packaged, then they won't tell you about it. Why show off how they created a massive crashed space shuttle out of an old Star Wars toy and lots of expanded polystyrene when Skull Fort of Skully Skulls is out next month?
49399
Post by: Jamumools
H.B.M.C. wrote:Jamumools wrote:I should add I am not a Games Workshop "Hater" as you regularly see on forums such as DakkaDakka and Warseer.
Oh yeah. Way to get everybody 'on side'.
Yeah - I hadn't planned on putting this on Dakka...! There are a lot of GW haters on here - for me I love the models, love the games, hoping to love the new paints, so usually let any Workshop BS roll over the top of me. I just felt really miffed that I'd decided to take a punt on the WD and not only was it boring, but the content was online. I would not have asked for a refund if it I just didn't enjoy it - that would be taking the piss a little really.
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Post by: avedominusnox
I dislike the fail-ports it has most of the times...
I never bought it again since they stop scenic tutorials and conversions..
Most of the times nowdays is full of crap pages. Money for nothing IMO.
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Post by: Pacific
I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.
I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..
(So, watch this space I guess?)
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Post by: Lorizael
Maybe White Dwarf is like it is because it sells really well and lots of people like it and enjoy reading it?
It's not for everyone I'm sure, but the content it has is what some people want obviously.
WD isn't something I particularly like or find a use for, but I see plenty who do.
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Post by: Trasvi
In my opinion, WD is like it is due to the target market.
A large amount of GW's business strategy is directed towards teenagers who have minimal exposure to alternative sources of hobby material.
These people
a) Don't know that better material can be found online
b) Don't know how much other magazines are
c) Don't know what quality of material is available in other magazines
d) Don't know how good the magazine used to be
I know it took me about 18 months from buying my first white dwarf to finding online material (though that was ~12 years ago) and even longer before I bought another print publication (Wired, which is consistently good to this day )
Changing White Dwarf in any way is catering to veterans, something GW has consistently shown no interest in doing.
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Post by: Battleworthy Arts
Brother SRM wrote:Battle Ready Studios wrote:White Dwarf is as good as it ever was. Battle reports, photos of new models, painting articles, goldem demon pics, new rules...
What exactly are you expecting?
Have you ever read WD's from as recent as six years ago? There used to be a lot more content, a lot more showcases on player and staff armies, converting and customizing articles, WAY better battle reports with more images and in-depth reporting with a lot of staff armies, columns where reader questions were answered, experimental rules for new units, and all the stuff that's in there now. However, this month's issue covering the new paints and the Deathworlds battle missions is pretty cool, and I'll be picking it up.
My first White Dwarf was issue 104.
Like GW responded, the current issues are full of pictures and new rules. Maybe the battle reports are less in depth, but I think those have ALWAYS been boring.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.
I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..
(So, watch this space I guess?)
Source on that? That sounds like great news and I'm sure that sales have been hurt due to the low quality, but I'm curious where you heard that.
Battle Ready Studios wrote:
Like GW responded, the current issues are full of pictures and new rules. Maybe the battle reports are less in depth, but I think those have ALWAYS been boring.
Well if you don't like battle reports that's on you. If you read the average battle report now, it's the new army of the month vs. another studio army that you already see on the front of every box, and the new army almost always wins. Sometimes these reports are okay, sometimes they're 2 pages long and gloss over a lot of detail without going into any depth whatsoever. Going back about 6 years, two of the staff played against each other with Speed Freaks and an IG paratrooper company. Every model in both armies was converted, the Ork vehicles were really converted from toys and random junk, and both armies used Forgeworld aircraft. The report was a good 10 pages long, the pictures were awesome, I always knew what was going on, and they even built a story around it. Neither IG nor Orks were new that month; it was just a battle fought out because it would be fun. It even had rules for the custom scenario they were fighting, and a few pages highlighting some of the cooler conversions each army had.
34906
Post by: Pacific
Brother SRM wrote:Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.
I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..
(So, watch this space I guess?)
Source on that? That sounds like great news and I'm sure that sales have been hurt due to the low quality, but I'm curious where you heard that.
I can't say sorry! I don't think its being kept a secret (and indeed anyone who is anyone at GW will know about it), but I would rather not potentially get someone in trouble.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Pacific wrote:
I can't say sorry! I don't think its being kept a secret (and indeed anyone who is anyone at GW will know about it), but I would rather not potentially get someone in trouble.
Alright, wasn't sure if you saw it in a post on Warseer or if it was actually something you heard personally. I understand, and hope your source is correct on that one!
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine. I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining.
Don't take this the wrong way Pacific, but we've heard that before and on more than one occasion. It's all well and good that someone intends on changing things, but whether they follow through is a bigger question, and how long that follow through stays in effect is another. I still remember the last few issues leading up to WD200, where it became Fat Dwarf - the new bigger magazine. It went from AUD$5.95 to AUD$9.95 and it was worth the extra four bucks for that bigger issue. Flash forward to around issue 230+/-, and the magazine is the same size that it was pre-Fat Dwarf, yet the price hasn't gone back down to AUD$5.95. And the content was shocking, Battle Reports consisting of an isometric photo of the battlefield with a few call-out boxes and arrows, and then a summation of what happened (no maps or turn by turn accounts). So yeah, I'm all for a better dwarf, but there have been numerous times we've heard "It's all about to change" and it either doesn't, or does for a short time before reverting back to normal.
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Post by: Necro
Battle Ready Studios wrote:
Like GW responded, the current issues are full of pictures and new rules. Maybe the battle reports are less in depth, but I think those have ALWAYS been boring.
Brother SRM wrote:
Well if you don't like battle reports that's on you. If you read the average battle report now, it's the new army of the month vs. another studio army that you already see on the front of every box, and the new army almost always wins. Sometimes these reports are okay, sometimes they're 2 pages long and gloss over a lot of detail without going into any depth whatsoever. Going back about 6 years, two of the staff played against each other with Speed Freaks and an IG paratrooper company. Every model in both armies was converted, the Ork vehicles were really converted from toys and random junk, and both armies used Forgeworld aircraft. The report was a good 10 pages long, the pictures were awesome, I always knew what was going on, and they even built a story around it. Neither IG nor Orks were new that month; it was just a battle fought out because it would be fun. It even had rules for the custom scenario they were fighting, and a few pages highlighting some of the cooler conversions each army had.
Couldn't agree more with this. The old battle reports were the first part I read and they were exciting because they really could have gone either way. Now days it is a case of the new release dex winning the game. I much prefered the old lay out of the report too. Always knew where everything was and what was happening.
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Post by: LooT
Brother SRM wrote:
Well if you don't like battle reports that's on you. If you read the average battle report now, it's the new army of the month vs. another studio army that you already see on the front of every box, and the new army almost always wins. Sometimes these reports are okay, sometimes they're 2 pages long and gloss over a lot of detail without going into any depth whatsoever. Going back about 6 years, two of the staff played against each other with Speed Freaks and an IG paratrooper company. Every model in both armies was converted, the Ork vehicles were really converted from toys and random junk, and both armies used Forgeworld aircraft. The report was a good 10 pages long, the pictures were awesome, I always knew what was going on, and they even built a story around it. Neither IG nor Orks were new that month; it was just a battle fought out because it would be fun. It even had rules for the custom scenario they were fighting, and a few pages highlighting some of the cooler conversions each army had.
I remember reading that battle report. It was the best I had read to that point, and I think it was the best i have read since. It was just fun, and everything was home made (just about, Dellapina's trucks and wagonz most certainly were!).
If they took WD back to the issue 298 (where that batrep came from) style, then that would be enough. And it would be good.
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Post by: zariart
An unasked for noobs opinion of WD
I had never read a WD in my life, Then I picked up the sisters codex issues(WD379-380) because I did not want to wait for the new SOB codex to come out to see if I wanted to build a SOB army.Seemd like a good deal.
My wife got me a another issue because she thought i read them like magazines, and I realized that quite literally the only info I was using was the codex info.The battle reports leave me thinking I need more models rather than trying a new technique. The rest was packed full of reviews of new models. You pay money to advertise to me, not the other way around. Im still not sure that a TO would accept those issues as real codex.
IMHO as a noob is that WD is not rubbish but not a good value,it is a specialist catalog with tidbits for the OCCASIONAL buyer.
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Post by: FabricatorGeneralMike
Pacific wrote:Brother SRM wrote:Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.
I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..
(So, watch this space I guess?)
Source on that? That sounds like great news and I'm sure that sales have been hurt due to the low quality, but I'm curious where you heard that.
I can't say sorry! I don't think its being kept a secret (and indeed anyone who is anyone at GW will know about it), but I would rather not potentially get someone in trouble.
Holds up my lodge token.... I can't say brother
Honestly WD has been gak for a long time, I see it getting even worse before the GW bean counters figure out they can get much more massive exposure on the net and their website and totally axe it.
[ oh no it's this thread again....purge it with fire] 
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Jamumools wrote:There are a lot of GW haters on here
You mind naming a few of them for us, please? I'm just curious really, I see people like you bitch about "all the GW haters" constantly and I personally don't see a lot of what you're talking about. I don't see people who "hate" GW, I see people who are rightfully pissed off at them for good reasons. Kinda like how you are right now...hmm...
H.B.M.C. wrote:So yeah, I'm all for a better dwarf, but there have been numerous times we've heard "It's all about to change" and it either doesn't, or does for a short time before reverting back to normal.
Wasn't there a rumor just a few months ago in fact that White Dwarf was supposed to be "better" now, with more content? And it's still the same garbage, about the only real "content" any of them had was the Sisters codex, which is actually worse than the printed codex it replaced.
"We're changing it for real this time! Promise!"
I should also add: last time I ever bought a White Dwarf was for the Dark Eldar release, and only for the painting guide for the armor and stuff (the only thing in the magazine worth reading), which I decided not to use anyway since they mix like 4-6 different paints to get that color and I'm not doing all that mixing. And it's out of date now anyway since the paint range changed. I have like 3 issues of White Dwarf total and I feel like I got ripped off on all of them.
49399
Post by: Jamumools
Please bear in mind that email was addressed to Workshop. Your signature, and the content of your post, suggests you are at least moderately negative towards GW. I have remained mostly positive towards the company throughout the time I've been in the hobby. I felt it was worth pointing that out (to GW) in the email.
But in answer to your question no, I can't name specific people. You give me the impression you certainly lean in that direction, but there are people far more negative than you who just bitch about anything GW.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Lorizael wrote:Maybe White Dwarf is like it is because it sells really well and lots of people like it and enjoy reading it?
It's not for everyone I'm sure, but the content it has is what some people want obviously.
WD isn't something I particularly like or find a use for, but I see plenty who do.
If it was selling that well it wouldn't have been withdrawn from WH Smiths, the biggest distributor and retailer in the UK. That happened early last year.
1. The purpose of the mag is to be a catalogue and promotion for the latest kits.
2. It isn't a general wargames mag. You can get all that kind of stuff online, or in books, or in alternative wargames mags like Wargames Illustrated.
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Post by: Poppabear
To be fair, over the past 9 months, they have been getting better.
50685
Post by: Skippy
Sidstyler wrote:Jamumools wrote:There are a lot of GW haters on here
You mind naming a few of them for us, please? I'm just curious really, I see people like you bitch about "all the GW haters" constantly and I personally don't see a lot of what you're talking about. I don't see people who "hate" GW, I see people who are rightfully pissed off at them for good reasons. Kinda like how you are right now...hmm...
It would take a lot of bandwidth to write out all those names, admin would complain.
I haven't bought WD for about 11 years so cant really comment, but the modelling articles were always my favourite bits so i probably wouldn't like it now.
The internet provides everything i need really, but a decent wargaming, modelling and painting magazine would be cool.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
Wargames Illustrated
Military Modelling
44341
Post by: tyrannosaurus
I'll still buy it, partly to get my hobby fix, partly because I like collecting stuff and don't want any gaps and partly becuase there's something nice about reading a magazine rather than looking at a computer screen - having said that this month's issue was poop.
There was far too much on the new paints, which meant the battle report was poor [didn't learn anything about either army]. Also the tale of four gamers [which I actually really like] was similarly rushed - would have been nice to read some bat reps from that too.
It's still very much hit and miss each month but I still enjoy reading it. Bigger bat reps, less [much less] LoTR, army showcases from real gamers [not staff], campaigns, more rules releases/codex updates would make me very happy and vastly improve the magazine for not much extra effort.
I am always surprised that GW never seems to consult such a vocal, loyal and well informed customer base to find out what they really want.
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Post by: Medium of Death
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:I'm not sure why most of the creative stuff from WD is now gone.
That shouldn't be too hard to figure out. They used to have extensive articles on making terrain, and use it in their battle reports. Now everything is packaged GW terrain played on a RoB board. If they can't sell it pre-packaged, then they won't tell you about it. Why show off how they created a massive crashed space shuttle out of an old Star Wars toy and lots of expanded polystyrene when Skull Fort of Skully Skulls is out next month?
I get that part, but kitbashing several kits and using the modelling tools GW sells is still a valid way to approach it.
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Post by: Skippy
They could go into heavy customisation of the GW boards and terrain. Would be nice to have scratch build as well tho.
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Post by: BuFFo
Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.
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Post by: mattyrm
Sidstyler wrote:
You mind naming a few of them for us, please? I'm just curious really, I see people like you bitch about "all the GW haters" constantly and I personally don't see a lot of what you're talking about.
Hey Ill do it and I dont even spend much time with you lot, I just like to check occasionally to see how ridiculously your trying to gang together and virtually bully people.
You, Puma, HBMC, Phantom Viper, Lunahound.. and thats off the top of my head, gimme ten minutes with PC and a pen and Ill give you a Catechism of Hate to rival Chaplain Grimaldus!
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Post by: Skippy
BuFFo wrote:Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.
Hadnt heard of that before, thanks for the tip.
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Post by: nightside
I just recently re-purchased issue 135 of WD as it was my first ever issue but it got read to death eventually. Such awesome nostalgia flicking through it again, there's SO many conversion and painting articles and bad painting tutorials recommending that you put black lines around every area of colour and it was awesome because back then I looked at it thinking THAT IS THE BEST PAINTING EVER!!! hahahaha.
I loved it because it was saying to me "try everything!". I think Nigel Stillman, Rick Priestly and John Blanche had a lot to do with the almost fatherly nature of the magazine at that time. It seems to brim with possibilities and creativity.
I don't buy WD any more, as has been stated previously, print media is dying and it essentially a pricey catalogue. The Golden Demon and artist profile issues are always cool though.
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Post by: Flashman
It was bemusingly rubbish this month.
You would have thought that an issue devoted to a relaunch of the paint range would have had some interesting painting articles, but nope, what they wrote about the new paints was like... ahem... watching paint dry.
And then you have the article on the new Empire release. A brief overview of Empire fluff, some pics of the new models and that was it. I know we complain when they harp on about the big new release, but not actually saying anything interesting about it all is even worse IMHO.
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Post by: Skippy
Flashman wrote:It was bemusingly rubbish this month.
You would have thought that an issue devoted to a relaunch of the paint range would have had some interesting painting articles, but nope, what they wrote about the new paints was like... ahem... watching paint dry.
And then you have the article on the new Empire release. A brief overview of Empire fluff, some pics of the new models and that was it. I know we complain when they harp on about the big new release, but not actually saying anything interesting about it all is even worse IMHO.
Lol, id have expected wall to wall painting tutorials and examples of effects achieved with the new paints.
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Post by: Dysartes
Skippy wrote:Lol, id have expected wall to wall painting tutorials and examples of effects achieved with the new paints.
This would imply Marketing, something GW doesn't appear to believe worthy of its notice...
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Post by: Flashman
Skippy wrote:Flashman wrote:It was bemusingly rubbish this month.
You would have thought that an issue devoted to a relaunch of the paint range would have had some interesting painting articles, but nope, what they wrote about the new paints was like... ahem... watching paint dry.
And then you have the article on the new Empire release. A brief overview of Empire fluff, some pics of the new models and that was it. I know we complain when they harp on about the big new release, but not actually saying anything interesting about it all is even worse IMHO.
Lol, id have expected wall to wall painting tutorials and examples of effects achieved with the new paints.
Oh, they had wall to wall painting articles but they were feth boring. Basically each one was a variation of apply base, apply wash, apply layer, apply lighter layer. Repeat that 20 times and it gets a little dull  Automatically Appended Next Post: Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.
I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..
(So, watch this space I guess?)
The fundamental problem with the magazine is basically that it reflects the current approach adopted by GW (total secrecy, shifting the new release, no hobby except the GW hobby etc). I can't see how the editorial team can make the magazine much more interesting if that's the criteria they have to stick to.
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Post by: Eilif
I'm in complete agreement with the OP on WD being rubish. I have very little time for any White Dwarfs after 1999. However I disagree with a few of his (and others') points.
1) Asking for a refund for a magazine is silly, especially when you can look through it in the store to see what you're getting. Asking for a partial refund for the unsent portion of a yearly subscription on the other hand is completely reasonable.
2) Feeling annoyed that you're paying for something that can be had on the web is understandable, but not a reason to ask for a refund. You're paying to have it in print and to have rules expansions a month or so before they are available on the web. If that's not reason enough to buy it, then don't.
3) Sure WD isn't cheap, but WD's price relative to the price of GW minis is roughly the same as when I started in the 90's. Being shocked at the price of WD, while paying GW (or even GW at internet discount) prices smacks a bit of inconsistency.
4) Lastly, WD isn't my cup-o-tea at all, but it really shouldn't be hard to see the appeal.
WD sells a very high-production-value catalog to a very specific, market of those who want to have beautiful glossy paper copies of all the latest GW releases, want to see some basic modeling and painting info about those releases and want to see them in battle reports.
Not that different than the glossy catalogs sold by many hobby companies, it's just that WD pulls it off monthly. Sure WD could do more, but they've pretty much settled on the above model and it seems to have worked for them for the last decade or so.
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Post by: BuFFo
Skippy wrote:BuFFo wrote:Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.
Hadnt heard of that before, thanks for the tip.
I would be the FIRST person you know who would jump on something any company did that was rubbish... The SECOND No Quarter goes downhill, I am mailing in letters smeared by my feces.
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Post by: Kanluwen
BuFFo wrote:Skippy wrote:BuFFo wrote:Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.
Hadnt heard of that before, thanks for the tip.
I would be the FIRST person you know who would jump on something any company did that was rubbish... The SECOND No Quarter goes downhill, I am mailing in letters smeared by my feces.
I wouldn't really call No Quarter a "hobby magazine".
It's Privateer Press' version of White Dwarf. The issues I have (1-5) aren't bad, but they were nothing really to write home about.
Edit note:
That's not saying that No Quarter is a bad magazine or trying to start a flame war or anything. I didn't see anything in those issues which justified me continuing to buy once the interest I had in Warmahordes at the time had died. I don't buy White Dwarf regularly for the same reason.
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Post by: carlos13th
Bought my first and likely last issue of WD this weekend. Thought it would be full of painting tutorials etc considering it was about the new paints but it was just a giant advert I paid for.
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Post by: d-usa
1) starts a thread about how much he hates a GW product on DakkaDakka
2) complaints about DakkaDakka being GW haters
Makes sense, please carry on.
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Post by: Kirasu
I enjoyed this months WD with the storm of magic and necron stuff. The previous months had interesting civil war rules for fantasy and the deathworld games were fun
It is what you make of it I suppose. 8$ for the time spent is comparable to other things I do
I know a lot of younger people waste or used to waste tons of money on comics (imo they provide like 5 mins of reading for 3$..ie a waste to me..).. Or all the people who smoke.. or many other things that I personally consider a total waste of cash
WD Isnt a great magazine but I don't see it being a bigger waste than other common things people spend cash on
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Post by: juraigamer
So long as people buy it, they will keep making it.
If I could sell YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT POSTING PROFANITY. IF THE FILTER DOES NOT CATCH IT, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. PROFANITY IS AGAINST THE RULES. THANK YOU. -Mannahnin, I would.
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Post by: Baxx
White Dwarf is both filled with commercials and North Korea style news. I never liked it much. Great idea, but when it's part of GW, it's part of the propaganda. I can accept alot of footage and material about new releases or other interesting stuff, but I hate it when they have to be over the top positive to absolutely everything. I want a bit of salt in my food.
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Post by: SagesStone
Skippy wrote:Sidstyler wrote:Jamumools wrote:There are a lot of GW haters on here
You mind naming a few of them for us, please? I'm just curious really, I see people like you bitch about "all the GW haters" constantly and I personally don't see a lot of what you're talking about. I don't see people who "hate" GW, I see people who are rightfully pissed off at them for good reasons. Kinda like how you are right now...hmm...
It would take a lot of bandwidth to write out all those names, admin would complain.
Always the same thing.
"Who are the bad people?"
"Too many to name them."
"Just a few then?"
"I don't know, there's a lot of them."
Likely the number is inflated due to any slight disdain being seen as evidence of a "Hater", usually those with a real reason to be annoyed being mislabelled as a blind raging psychopath hell bent on the complete destruction of GW and apparently 40k since disliking one always seems to automatically dislike the other as well for some bizarre reason. To me it seems more like a straw man argument, if I'm using that correctly (don't think I am, but I might be).
That being said I liked WD back around the 2005-2006 era, sure it was filled with a lot of LoTR stuff due to it having just been released but it had some nice tutorials in it not to mention some cool looking Word Bearers army in one of them that I remember. These days it has been more hit and miss, the painting articles on occasion being a nice read but other than that it just mostly seems to fall a bit flat.
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Post by: Happygrunt
To be fair, there is some cool things in it. I bought my first issue a few weeks ago (The one with the Deathworld Rules in it). I thought the rules were fine for the price, but I probably wouldn't get a subscription. Just pick up the odd issue.
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Post by: Chrissy_J
I bought my first WD in about 13 years this month ... the new paints issue? And to be honest it was just as I remembered it - battle reports, a painting tutorial and the promotion of new minis.
Nothing really new, but I bought it to learn about the new paint ranges and the extracts from the new painting guide.
I don't think magazines will ever die, people will always want something to read on the bus (or the toilet!) and I can't use a PC as a reference tool while I'm doing something else - I just don't have the space.
But WD has always been an expensive magazine and unless there's at least two specific reasons for me to buy it, then I won't do so.
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Post by: LunaHound
juraigamer wrote:So long as people buy it, they will keep making it.
If I could sell YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT POSTING PROFANITY. IF THE FILTER DOES NOT CATCH IT, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. PROFANITY IS AGAINST THE RULES. THANK YOU. -Mannahnin, , I would.
So close yet so far. You got the concept, but need the finess to seal the deal.
Sell Panda poop to organic tea growers,
PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An is charging 20,000 Yuan (about US$3,175.00) for each 50 grams (1.7 oz) of Tea
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Post by: Cave_Dweller
It's just plain not worth buying anymore.
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Post by: Kaldor
n0t_u wrote:Always the same thing.
"Who are the bad people?"
"Too many to name them."
"Just a few then?"
"I don't know, there's a lot of them."
Likely the number is inflated due to any slight disdain being seen as evidence of a "Hater"
No, it's because all the haters get on their high horses and insist they aren't haters and naming names just starts meaningless flame battles.
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Post by: SagesStone
Yet the other side does it as well... -.-
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Post by: HaerDalis
I just want better Batt Reps, they struggle to be more than a couple of pages even less considering the number of pictures.
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Post by: Pacific
Kirasu wrote:
WD Isnt a great magazine but I don't see it being a bigger waste than other common things people spend cash on
Yes, although the problem is people keep drawing comparisons to how the magazine used to be! And it's not just nostalgia - go up to anything around 310-312, and it was a great magazine. I used to look forward to its release every month, and I think it was a genuinely good addition to the wargaming and Games Workshop hobby.
But, as I said guys apparently there is a big change coming to the magazine, so with any luck things will improve.
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Post by: motyak
The old WDs also had more to draw on, Inquisitor, BFG, Mordeheim, all that jazz. I miss those bits, Inquisitor and BFG battle reports were just brilliant.
Also the old painting/modelling help, when they taught you how to make terrain you saw in the battle report/articles (like the bretonnian abbey from the bret/skaven/undead battle...I think thats how it went anyway) and chapter approved, both the fluff version and the rules version.
Thats why it used to be better. I'm so glad I got my hands on a bunch of old WDs.
Also Pacific, I hope you are right re: the big change. I'd love to be buying White Dwarf filled with hope and reading and re-reading it. Instead of finishing it on the bus home, and consigning it to under my bed
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Post by: Sidstyler
Kaldor wrote:n0t_u wrote:Always the same thing.
"Who are the bad people?"
"Too many to name them."
"Just a few then?"
"I don't know, there's a lot of them."
Likely the number is inflated due to any slight disdain being seen as evidence of a "Hater"
No, it's because all the haters get on their high horses and insist they aren't haters and naming names just starts meaningless flame battles.
Or maybe they're not actually "haters", imagine that.
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Post by: LunaHound
Kaldor wrote:n0t_u wrote:Always the same thing.
"Who are the bad people?"
"Too many to name them."
"Just a few then?"
"I don't know, there's a lot of them."
Likely the number is inflated due to any slight disdain being seen as evidence of a "Hater"
No, it's because all the haters get on their high horses and insist they aren't haters and naming names just starts meaningless flame battles.
I don't know, you would probably consider me a hater.
Though I can present you my exact reasons why I dislike current white dwarf.
WD used to be about hobby, it used to be caring in helping us be a better hobbiest. Now, its majority used to push current month products.
WD used to have entertaining battle reports where 2 staff really have fun with random stuff. Now, its this month's release vs w/e
WD used to be decently priced, with nice "gift". WD now have no gift, what you do get is unlocking the option for you to PURCHASE the subscription miniature.
Decline in content
Decline in value.
Guess that still makes me a hater.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Or it could just be that anyone who has been in the hobby long enough to remember how awesome WD was 6 years ago is simply too experienced to need the kind of content WD provides, and has always provided. I flip through my old WDs and honestly there's nothing there for me to read anymore, either.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
People sing high praises to No Quarter but that also has maybe about 6 pages of content that I care about per issue (new fluff and artwork). Then there are pictures of models, basic tactics articles (strong models are great at punching things!) and beginner modeling tutorials.
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Post by: CadianXV
My problem with WD is the price. For the price of two, I could buy an individual character model, which I would enjoy infinitely more.
Now, if the content was exceptional enough to warrant this investment, I'd be a lot happier, and as others have pointed out- it used to. Nowadays, its nowhere near.
Bring back the Paul Sawyer/Guy Hayley Alliance!
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Post by: Ouze
Jamumools wrote:I should add I am not a Games Workshop "Hater" as you regularly see on forums such as DakkaDakka and Warseer.
Yes, clearly starting a thread on Dakka Dakka describing how much you think their product is a "load of rubbish", on Dakka Dakka, marks you as cut from a different cloth than the haters on Dakka Dakka.
Congratulations on a terrible thread that opened horribly and then went exactly in the only direction it could have.
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Post by: The Great Wolf
I agree, white dwarf has really went down hill. I was rooting around in the loft and found some of the really old white dwarf mags and they were so much better.
As said above, I tend to flick through the mags before I even consider buying them
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Post by: Breotan
I find the current state of White Dwarf to be far worse than any finecast problems you could hope to encounter. At least with finecast, you can get the bad stuff replaced. Not much you can do with the bad stuff in White Dwarf. :/
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Post by: Kanluwen
Breotan wrote:I find the current state of White Dwarf to be far worse than any finecast problems you could hope to encounter. At least with finecast, you can get the bad stuff replaced. Not much you can do with the bad stuff in White Dwarf. :/
I can't speak for you...
But I simply don't buy it. I have Fine Scale Modeler for my modeling fix. And even that is starting to trend towards being what Lord_Blackfang says in his post:
Come a certain point, you just don't need the information in it anymore.
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Post by: Ouze
Oof. I know a lot of people swear by FSM, but I tried a yearlong subscription and found that wanting as well. I found the advertisement to content ratio totally unacceptable, mostly.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Sidstyler wrote:Kaldor wrote:n0t_u wrote:Always the same thing.
"Who are the bad people?"
"Too many to name them."
"Just a few then?"
"I don't know, there's a lot of them."
Likely the number is inflated due to any slight disdain being seen as evidence of a "Hater"
No, it's because all the haters get on their high horses and insist they aren't haters and naming names just starts meaningless flame battles.
Or maybe they're not actually "haters", imagine that.
This.
Certain people need to realise that us so called "haters" are simply frustrated with a company they've poured their heart and soul into go into some kind of maddening spiral of destroying it's fanbase. I want to see GW prosper and grow beyond anything we can imagine, however it needs to get knocked on it's ass very very hard for this to happen.
Or I'm just hating on a company whose farts smell like fresh cinnamon buns accoriding to some people... 
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Post by: Kanluwen
Grimtuff wrote:
Certain people need to realise that us so called "haters" are simply frustrated with a company they've poured their heart and soul into go into some kind of maddening spiral of destroying it's fanbase. I want to see GW prosper and grow beyond anything we can imagine, however it needs to get knocked on it's ass very very hard for this to happen.
Or I'm just hating on a company whose farts smell like fresh cinnamon buns according to some people...
I like how you put out this great big explanation as to why you're not a "hater", and then immediately insinuate that the "apologists" do not have complaints or issues with the company.
The reason people get labeled as "haters" is because they actively come into threads just to post how much they dislike something that has been done or how X company has done it better than Y, and they purposely do it in such a way that it is certain to start a debate which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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Post by: oni
I think WD has been getting better TBH.
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Post by: Kanluwen
It has a deep hole to dig itself out of though.
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Post by: deggreg@yahoo.com
I think WD is still cool, although with the website(s) for this hobby...it's not a must have though. I don't disagree with the OP, it's just...him saying that he's a 20 vet is the piece of this puzzle that's important. He started before the internet, when the WD was a must have piece of the hobby. Now, it's just "another thing".
It's like newspapers, older people still buy them...people 40, not so much. At my local GW, the magazine is sold out and gone by the 10th every month....alot of people dig the pretty pictures, they don't buy it for information really, there are alternate and better ways to get that information.
With all of that said, to the OP...and this isn't meant to be confrontational...what response did you expect? "you are right, sorry..we'll fix it"?. It's GW's magazine..they run it how they see fit...if you don't like it, express that to them by not buying it, if enough people agree and do that...GW will be forced to changed. If not, then your opinion isn't held by enough people to matter. With all due respect
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Post by: mattyrm
Grimtuff wrote:
Or I'm just hating on a company whose farts smell like fresh cinnamon buns accoriding to some people...
This is the point though, are the "white knights" REALLY like that? If Jervis coiled one out in their bed would they really think it smelt of cinammon? 
Haters really are haters though.
I mean, here's me, a bloke who spends about £200 a year on GW stuff always off ebay or wayland, refuses to buy WD after his missus got him a year long sub and found it to be a total waste of money and mostly full of adverts and gak, doesn't need to buy any new paints other than a box he got off ebay a few years back, and refuses to own more than one army because he doesnt play more than a couple of games a month, who gets raged upon and called a white knight whenever he tries to inject some common sense into a spite thread?!
I'm a 32 year old bloke, what do I care about some faceless multi national? I really couldn't give a gak. But that doesn't mean I don't get wound up by haters, you know why I open my mouth?
Cos their attitude is fething childish. Seriously, do you hate on Kellogs or Nike? Aren't they all just after your money? Why do GW buyers feel so self entitled? Why do so many of them think themselves so special? Corporations exist to turn a profit, why take it so personally? Do any of us really "deserve" anything off a big company?
Kans probably the biggest GW fan boy on here, and if GW sold him gak, I'm pretty certain he would say so, maybe Im wrong, but I think he would cos he is a grown man.
The reason I personally argue with haters is because If I have to choose between the "white knights" and the "haters" I have drawn a line in the sand and picked a team. Soldiers don't like sitting on fences.
True Fan-boys (I genuinelly dont think there are many on here) perplex me with their bizarre loyalty to a faceless corporation. Too true, I find it odd and somewhat irritating.
But the spineless, endless whinging of the keyboard warriors that make up the "haters" on this board genuinelly repulse me. I loathe their whiny victim attitude and their endless complaints, as I find it pathetic and child like.
So answer me this, am I, the bloke that is only somewhat interested in the hobby, a white knight?
Or not? Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeah On topic, If anyone missed it.
I don't buy WD, it sucks.
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Post by: MightyGodzilla
@ Mattyrm You're no white knight bro. Common man with an interest and some common sense.
Baxx wrote:White Dwarf is both filled with commercials and North Korea style news...
"North Korean style news.....This made me Lol!
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
I've noticed a drop in quality, too.
From the first WD I have (March 2010) to now, I've seen less quality.
Also, since Kendrick varied, grammar has been a real problem, as has spelling...
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Post by: Grimtuff
Kanluwen wrote:
I like how you put out this great big explanation as to why you're not a "hater", and then immediately insinuate that the "apologists" do not have complaints or issues with the company.
Surely that is what an apologist is by definition...
If you're defending yourself here from some implied slight, Kan, you're in no way an GW apologist, a fanboy maybe but an apologist you are not. To see a real GW apologist in the wild I suggest you swing by my hometown sometime. Then I can show you one that makes you look like a "hater" 
Now, to post something OT in this thread: 
White Dwarf, it's fallen so far from grace it's silly. I look back at some of the battered old tatty issues I had and wonder where it all went wrong. UK WD 222 was my first with Nick Davis' amazing Lizardmen terrain articles which ran for a few issues which set me on the way for knowing what materials to use for building my own cheap, good looking terrain. Tale of 4 gamers was in full swing in this issue too.
Lots of good memories there. Now, there are a lot of things that we have grown out of as the veteran hobbyist, but there were a lot of useful things in many issues that I still use to this day. WD now simply does not even try to pretend it's not a catalogue. In the Fat Bloke days you had player's own armies, good battle reports, and wonderful articles, some of them not even from the WD staff, remember Mike Walker's wonderful articles about the trails and tribulations of his gaming circle?
Where a lot of people say WD "jumped the shark" as it were was the infamous Giant Issue ( UK 316 IIRC) where 99% of the mag was taken over by the new plastic giant, the only release of that month. Every. Single. Article was pimping this new kit, even the battle report with the much maligned "stomp o meter" IIRC. Ironically this was a WD that included new rules that allowed certain armies to use a giant as a Dogs of War unit. Go figure.
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Post by: LunaHound
Kanluwen wrote:
I like how you put out this great big explanation as to why you're not a "hater", and then immediately insinuate that the "apologists" do not have complaints or issues with the company.
The reason people get labeled as "haters" is because they actively come into threads just to post how much they dislike something that has been done or how X company has done it better than Y, and they purposely do it in such a way that it is certain to start a debate which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Have you (and the mods) ever consider the exact principle applies to how people gets labelled as white knights?
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Post by: CT GAMER
Jamumools wrote:Yeah that is the ultimate plan. I suppose I figured if no-one moans, they'll never change anything...
People moan a lot and often, but GW stopped listening ages ago.
13 year olds with mom's credit card and hopefully new to wargamign are the target demographic
The kiddos think everthing is da bomb111 and arent old enough to know what WD once was so they have no point of comparison to complain about.
Guys like you and I don't even figure into their buisness plan anymore...
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Post by: Pacific
Kanluwen wrote:I can't speak for you...
But I simply don't buy it. I have Fine Scale Modeler for my modeling fix. And even that is starting to trend towards being what Lord_Blackfang says in his post:
Come a certain point, you just don't need the information in it anymore.
So you honestly believe that the White Dwarf on sale now is at a similar standard to those released previously (prior to 312, or the 'Giant Issue') ?
Please don't be so obstinate.. I think it speaks volumes that even GW staff (nay, upper management) have expressed displeasure with it, yet you think it's down to some kind of subjective difference in the reader!
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Post by: Ian Sturrock
I loved the Dave Morris articles on demons in RuneQuest -- I think they were around issue #35 or #45 or so.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Pacific wrote:Kanluwen wrote:I can't speak for you...
But I simply don't buy it. I have Fine Scale Modeler for my modeling fix. And even that is starting to trend towards being what Lord_Blackfang says in his post:
Come a certain point, you just don't need the information in it anymore.
So you honestly believe that the White Dwarf on sale now is at a similar standard to those released previously (prior to 312, or the 'Giant Issue') ?
Please don't be so obstinate.. I think it speaks volumes that even GW staff (nay, upper management) have expressed displeasure with it, yet you think it's down to some kind of subjective difference in the reader!
I think we're getting some wires crossed here, Pacific.
I just do not spend my money on White Dwarf. I don't feel it is worth the money.
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Post by: Pacific
Yup OK sorry Kan, that came across as slightly harsh!
I think WD could potentially work across several different levels - one of these is in providing insight and instruction into the modelling or wargaming world. And, perhaps as both youn and Lord Blackfang have pointed out, that is never going to be of service to everybody, especially the more experienced among us.
Another way, and I think this is perhaps most important, would be in just having good journalism in the magazine, articles which are well written and enjoyable to read. I would say this is the biggest area in which the magazine has slipped, and unfortunately it is the one area where it can provide something that is generally not easy to find on the internet.
I guess people want different things from a magazine - I want GW to start paying professional journalists and hobbyists to start writing articles again, and something that can provide me with toilet-reading material that lasts for at least a week! Really, I think that is the only benchmark against which the 'quality' of the magazine can be measured.
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Post by: curran12
Generally, I enjoy White Dwarf. GENERALLY.
I am not going into it expecting a great deal, hopefully some distracting rules or, at the very least an interesting battle report.
Now by interesting, I mean one that I can read through and enjoy. I'm not looking for high-level tournament play, or maximized lists or any of that kind of stuff. And I am certainly not interested in the kinds of battle reports that I might read here. Now this is not to bash on the reports on Dakka Dakka, most are pretty darn good, but they are a different thing than a WD report. I'm happy with just something that gives me a report to read will usually do it. The rest of the stuff I either browse at, or just ignore. So on the whole, I'm mostly ambivalent about White Dwarf, but I'll still buy usually.
THAT SAID
The last 3-4 months of WD have been very bad. As a person who reads them for interesting battle reports, they have been utter garbage.
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Post by: motyak
I was just thinking today that I would rather read one of jy2s or mercer's batreps instead of the ones in WD, then I thought that I wouldn't actually. I get to see units and characters being used in the WD reports that I wouldn't normally get to see, who cares if it is uncompetitive and trying to sell the models, I like seeing combinations and units that I can't normally see, either on here or at home (because my brother and I and our mates tend to pick quite competitive armies).
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Post by: curran12
motyak wrote:I was just thinking today that I would rather read one of jy2s or mercer's batreps instead of the ones in WD, then I thought that I wouldn't actually. I get to see units and characters being used in the WD reports that I wouldn't normally get to see, who cares if it is uncompetitive and trying to sell the models, I like seeing combinations and units that I can't normally see, either on here or at home (because my brother and I and our mates tend to pick quite competitive armies).
Exactly. Plus, and let me be totally shallow here, but a White Dwarf battle report has far better photography and (usually) better writing than a Dakka battle report. Again, they are different things. I don't read WD reports for tactical advise, and I don't read dakka reports for crisp photography and a bit of narrative spun into it. That said, the reports in WD for the past 2-3 months have just been slapdash and uninteresting in terms of their production.
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Post by: Cryonicleech
I'd like to make a point of contention here.
It's one thing to say that White Dwarf is bad. Sure, the internet is easily a better resource, and as someone who still reads WD I'll be the first to admit that most of it is advertising nonsense, with many of the articles lacking a serious depth.
However, I'd like to point out that, despite all these things, I mainly keep White Dwarf around as "hobby-pr0nz", occasionally WD has a decent article or two that I'd like to keep around. While I'm not going to argue that WD's articles are "good", I'd like to say that it's childish to assume that everyone who buys WD must be some sort of imbecile who is either juvenile and ignorant or is simply a GW fanboy.
I buy WD. It sucks, but I like to have it around. Not everyone who buys WD is somehow ignorant of the better articles on the internet.
Yeah, a little OT, but I feel like I needed to qualify some statements. WD's far from what it used to be in terms of quality, and it definitely needs a brush up, but making assumptions about the people who buy WD is another topic entirely.
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Post by: N.I.B.
Fat Bloke come back, everything is forgiven! Seriously, the battle reports under Paul Sawyer was what got me hooked on 40K.
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Post by: rockerbikie
I see what happened to their Catalogues. I remember the 2010 Catalogue.
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Post by: Trasvi
Lots of people on here are saying 'I can get everything that is in White Dwarf online'. To me, that indicates a possibility for WD to expand into an area which other publications or websites simply cannot deliver. Primarily: developer and designer notes.
Many WD's have a hint of this kind of thing, but I would really like to see a full, in depth, 3 solid pages of text description. 'We created this new unit in the Fast Attack slot because...' . The last WD I remember reading which had real, reasoned discussion about the codex rules was... the Dark Elf errata in 6th edition? Similarly they have the artists, sculptors and authors.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
actually, the latest one have seriously gone down hill fast, again since kendrick took over as editor, the one before that weren't as good as others, but at least they weren't this mind-numbingly boring
come on I want less small 'this is how you paint _ on this model' and more "This is how you can paint this model" or "This is how you can paint realistic lenses"
Heck, I want more WD exclusive stuff that ISN'T just showing off the new paint range, yeah I get that new colours means it will be a bit harder, but they've already given us a comparison chart, so whats the fething point?
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Post by: Jayce_The_Ace
I used to get GW religiously every month, had subscriptions & had every issue back to 136.
Not anymore. I cancelled my sub last year, and haven't bought a single issue since, simply because there is nothing in it for me anymore.
Gone are the days of short stories, in depth battle reports, conversions, readers armies, random fun stuff, etc all replaced with endless pictures of the same stuff, insipid reports, bland & pointless non-articles & a zillion pages of pointless, wasted space at the back.
I recently decided to have a clear out of some recent issues as they were just taking up space, and I ended up getting rid of about 2 years worth of WD's. I decided to pull out the bits Worth keeping - from all those magazines, I ended up (page wise) with less than the page count of 1 WD worth keeping. Thinking about it, for 2 years, that's really quite pathetic.
I really hope that they do intend to improve WD, I really, really do, but as people have already said, we've heard it all before, and it's getting old. It really seems that since GW discovered fun couldn't be Trade Marked or Copyrighted, they don't bother with it, and don't want people reading about it either (personal opinion).
I guess I am A GW hater, to some extent. I don't hate there universes, or the fluff or the models, I just hate what the company has become & how they do business these days.
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Post by: Chrissy_J
CT GAMER wrote:Jamumools wrote:Yeah that is the ultimate plan. I suppose I figured if no-one moans, they'll never change anything...
People moan a lot and often, but GW stopped listening ages ago.
13 year olds with mom's credit card and hopefully new to wargamign are the target demographic
The kiddos think everthing is da bomb111 and arent old enough to know what WD once was so they have no point of comparison to complain about.
Guys like you and I don't even figure into their buisness plan anymore...
Exactly the same sentiment that some of my friends have said to me, when I told them I'd gone back to miniatures. And it's such a shame.
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Post by: AndrewC
From memory, and it's an old creaky memory...
I remember seeing something that GW isn't classed as a magazine, but actually as a catalogue to take advantage on postal costs/tax breaks or something.
So in otherwords they cut content/quality, so no advertising or articles on competitors products, raise the price and tell us that they're increasing the 'value' of the magazine by concentrating on what we want.
So no change in their marketing strategy there then.
Cheers
Andrew
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Post by: Nurgle
They are pushing alot of Lord of the rings sort of stuff right now because the hobbit movie but think back when you found it in the 80s or 90s. You thought it was "the bomb" as well but when you got older you didnt like it as much. It is the same with movies for me. I suggest that you ride the wave and just deal with the current WD staff they will get better as time gose on. I used to hate Matt Ward until the recent Necron Codex being so balanced. (Just hope it stays that way)
One last thing, I have not bought a WD in a while because the store manager lets us read them in the store.
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Post by: Grot 6
What does it take for GW to get off its duff and just rehash the old format of the mag?
Even to the point of just the early redbacks, the book is not beyond repair, it is just lazy actions from the clueless as to why it is so bad now that it is a joke.
They could even go one better, book back to the early days of the mag and even .... talk about something OTHER then just how great finecrast is, or how much of nothing jervs gots to say.
The early 100's are pure gold if you really want to see how far the book has fallen to the darkside.
I truly miss those days. Now, looking back on the mags reminds me more of what was going on around the game, then just the mags themselves. THEN we can go on about how and what sucks, but that talk is getting old, by so much now.
I really want to like new content, but as of a couple of months back, I am just out and out dreading it. There is nothing that is really knocking my socks off about GW's... flagship...er... games.
Even back to alternative rules/ models. cardstock stuff, rebates, cupons, gimmicks that would actually be worth the paper they are printed on, metals once in awhile.
... I can dream I guess. 
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