Yep, it's that time of year again! More sad news in Toronto as they come to terms with another heart-breaking tragedy;
Spoiler:
"A group of Canadian tourists vactioning at a tropical destination were killed when their tour bus crashed on a remote road. The tourists were all from the city of Toronto and had been enjoying a warm, sunny week before they were schedualed to return home to their wintery city.
The tourists, upon arriving at what was believed to be their final desitination, were shocked at the whiteness of their surroundings and lamented about how they'd obviously just landed back home.
Outraged at this insult, the tourists were expelled from their heavenly aboad and found themselves surrounded by burning oceans, fiery sands and the intense heat of their new hell. Upon hearing a raucous and celebratory noise, Satan proceeded to demand an answer from these new arrivals as he watched in disbelief these tourists setting up vollyball nets, lawn chairs, beach umbrellas & even a BBQ! One of the Canadian tourists explained that back home, it was so cold and snowy that they'd all become severely depressed.
Thinking on how best to act, Satan turned and grumbling to himself, was determined to 'fix' the situation. He entered the climate control room, and turned the air conditioning up to its maximum level.
Soon, the 'warm beaches' were turned into a frozen mass of drifts, howling blizzards and frozen lakes. It was then that, to his utter astonishment, Satan heard and even louder and more excited cheer rise up from the Canadians, "WOO-HOO! THE LEAFS JUST WON THE STANLEY CUP!!!"
So, who is everyone rooting for this year?
I'm hoping for a Vancouver vs Ottawa final myself, but then reality kicks me in the face and reminds me that a Canadian team isn't allowed to win in Mr.Betman's buisness.
As usual I am going in with an extremely pessimistic attitude.
(You get this way after years of being a Canucks fan)
I really hope this year they get it done. Sadly it will probably be another of NBC's darlings raising the chalice. (Seriously it's getting kinda suspicious the correlation between being in NBC's WInter Classic and making the Finals.)
I bleed black and gold, but our injuries are just going to be too much of an issue this year me thinks. Also I think Ovie was saving himself for the playoffs and coud make round one interesting for us...
I have to say that seeing Miller sent home with no cake was very gratifying, and I hope vancouver is out early so that it's citizens don't have to suffer a simialr disgrace to last year: seeing idiots burn their city down...
CT GAMER wrote:I'm expecting Rangers or Pens to win it.
I bleed black and gold, but our injuries are just going to be too much of an issue this year me thinks. Also I think Ovie was saving himself for the playoffs and coud make round one interesting for us...
I think Ovie is saving himself for the IIHF World Championships!
Because according to him and alot of the other Russian players, the Olympics & Stanley Cup are rather meaningless & the World's are the real prize... (you know, the tournament that manages to keep the best players from every other country out of it because they're still playing for their respective NHL teams!)
Is it sad that I didn't even have to open this thread to know that I'd find a Leafs reference in the OP? Poor buggers might as well just make it their official motto.
But, hellz yeah,
Piston Honda wrote:
CT GAMER wrote:Piston that horn recording will come in handy for you during the playoffs because you won't hear that sound much in the actual games...
Unfortunately, long gone are the days when they could score less than 20 goals in the course of a playoff run and still walk away with the cup
On a related note, they should really shorten the regular season and move up the playoffs. Who can pay attention to hockey now that the weather is warm and baseball is back?
I hate to say it, but Vancouver is looking good. But, I'm gonna cheer for the Coyotes. The further they go, the more BS you can give a 'Jets' fan someday.
Ovie this year and a couple of years ago are totally different. I don't see him taking Washington too far if anywhere. I'd like to see a rematch of last year's final.
On a related note, they should really shorten the regular season and move up the playoffs. Who can pay attention to hockey now that the weather is warm and baseball is back?
People who realize that baseball is a boring excuse for a sport played by fat dudes and juice monkeys who pretend to be athletes?
My vote goes for the most consistent team out there, the Canucks. They always go far and then choke hard, so im never disappointed because i know whats going to happen
Tazz Azrael wrote:My vote goes for the most consistent team out there, the Canucks. They always make the playoffs and then choke hard, so im never disappointed because i know whats going to happen
Fixed that for ya.
I just had a depressing thought. If they continue the cycle, I will be nearly fifty before I see the 'Nucks in a Cup final again.
Tazz Azrael wrote:My vote goes for the most consistent team out there, the Canucks. They always go far and then choke hard, so im never disappointed because i know whats going to happen
They don't always go far, but they do choke big time. If they go out 4-0 in the first round, they'll be the first team trading at the draft.
Dayvuni wrote:
I'm sorry to tell you that the chances of them getting past round one is unlikely, sir.
Nashville matches up well with Detroit, and other "skill" oriented teams. I mean, both teams have ~100 points in one of the two toughest divisions in the league.
CT GAMER wrote:The Flyers are ferocious at present!
IThe series has been highly entertaining thus far...
The Pens might stand a chance though if they'd go back to playing their game and not try to play Philly's more physical game. Most of the goals the Flyers have scored were due to crappy defensive coverage because the Pens are more interested in laying a beat-down that the Flyers will win anyways!
Still, it's definately the most entertaining series this round! It's honestly too bad that one of these teams will be gone in less than a week.
Nashville matches up well with Detroit, and other "skill" oriented teams. I mean, both teams have ~100 points in one of the two toughest divisions in the league.
I'd say its a coin flip, for the most part.
Your right, it has been close so far but I'm still rooting for the Wings
I am also cheering for my English Premiership team, Slough Jets, they just reached the playoff finals today. Co-incidentally 2weeks ago Slough Jets played Milton Keynes Lightning, the same day as Winnipeg played Tampa. Same score except Slough Jets were the winners and Winnipeg Jets the losers. Bit of randomness done.
Cheesecat wrote:I'll be happy to see any Canadian team win the cup, especially Vancouver since I'm from BC.
+1
Though if Vancouver loses tonight I think it's pretty much over for them... At least Ottawa has tied their series up 1-1, and hopefully Alfie will be back soon!
Most of all I just want to see Boston get their es handed to them. No class, especially the fans in their building when they're pulling crap like boo'ing an opposing player laying hurt on the ice.
CT GAMER wrote:The Philly-penguins series has been insane!
Today's game got brutal.
I love how all three refs came to Crosby's defense and let Letang tool his opponent five feet away...
I think Philly might sweep them, which is too bad because I wanted to see a long series in which both teams beat each other senseless.
There were officals on the ice today?!
And it's pretty sad when a team's best player has to step up and become an agitator to try and inject some givadamnability into them. Mind you, the Pens are simply being morons playing Philly's game like that.
Flyers appear to be ready to go the distance. I wonder if they can make it to stanley without a goal tender.
GG
Well, he's been lucky as feth against the Pens in the first 3 games! As long as they keep those horse shoes jamed up his @$$, they have a decent chance.
Still can't believe Schenn didn't get even a minor for his blaitent charge + high hit in first period...
That Pens/Flyers game was the epitome of the old joke.. " I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out."
I bet Clarkie was jumping on his seat a during that game.
Next game is Wed.... The Pens need a better plan than playing Broad Street Hockey.
It IS possible for the Pens to come back from 0-3, It has happened like 3 times..... Last team to do it.... Philly, 2010 over Boston.
helgrenze wrote:That Pens/Flyers game was the epitome of the old joke.. " I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out."
I bet Clarkie was jumping on his seat a during that game.
Next game is Wed.... The Pens need a better plan than playing Broad Street Hockey.
It IS possible for the Pens to come back from 0-3, It has happened like 3 times..... Last team to do it.... Philly, 2010 over Boston.
I just can't get over how the media especially are blaming all the shinanigans on the Pens. So it's apparently a 'clean hockey hit' for Schenn to charge 2/3rd's of the ice to jump into an opposing player and deck him in the face, but Crosby is the dirtiest player in the league?!
I'm hoping the Pens can at least take the next game and at least make a bit of a series out of it all.
helgrenze wrote:That Pens/Flyers game was the epitome of the old joke.. " I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out."
I bet Clarkie was jumping on his seat a during that game.
Next game is Wed.... The Pens need a better plan than playing Broad Street Hockey.
It IS possible for the Pens to come back from 0-3, It has happened like 3 times..... Last team to do it.... Philly, 2010 over Boston.
I just can't get over how the media especially are blaming all the shinanigans on the Pens. So it's apparently a 'clean hockey hit' for Schenn to charge 2/3rd's of the ice to jump into an opposing player and deck him in the face, but Crosby is the dirtiest player in the league?!
I'm hoping the Pens can at least take the next game and at least make a bit of a series out of it all.
Schenn hit was dirty, no doubt about it.
That does nothing to change the fact that as time goes on Crosby reveals himself to be more and more of an instigating punk who knows and expects that every official on the ice (and his team's heavies) will jump to protect him as soon as someone attempts to call him on his bs...
Crosby had the entire NHL media machine and marketing arm making him out to be the all-american poster boy, but he isn't the innocent "kid" they want to portray him as.
IF he wants to tlk smack and hit people's gloves away and throw cheap shots, that is all well and good, but I don't want to hear any penguins/Crosby fans crying when he gets laid out with a career ending hit, because it IS coming, and his instigating is only helping speed things along...
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Experiment 626 wrote:
Still, it's definately the most entertaining series this round! It's honestly too bad that one of these teams will be gone in less than a week.
I just watched the highlights from game 3 Pens-Flyers. I thought Schenns hit was fine, it was that crosscheck to the adams apple that was out of line from Adams. And Crosby playing instigator? Wow.....
Experiment 626 wrote:
I just can't get over how the media especially are blaming all the shinanigans on the Pens.
Welcome to Vancouver media, the only place in the world where the Sedins aren't whiny bitches.
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generalgrog wrote:I just watched the highlights from game 3 Pens-Flyers. I thought Schenns hit was fine, it was that crosscheck to the adams apple that was out of line from Adams.
The Schenn hit was dirty as feth, he either aimed high deliberately or he's too stupid (read: physically incompetent) to be playing professional hockey.
He absolutely deserved what he got. You feth around, you get your ass kicked, its really quite simple. I would have done, and have done (in other sports), exactly the same thing.
If this type of behavior is going to stop, the NHL needs to decide that it wants the officials to police players rather than allowing the players to police each other.
Crosby is simply trying to stoke a fire up his team's collective arses because they're all playing like morons... I think his poking the glove away was a really dumb & childish thing to do, but considering all the crap that's been flying at him since he first entered the league, it's no surprise he's growing a huge chip on his shoulder and finally acting out.
I've been forced to quit playing because of taking too many concussions, (I've suffered 8 in total), all from cheap blindside/hits from behind. I don't blame Crosby for getting outright p ed-off because the refs aren't doing their jobs at all... You take enough crap, it's only human nature to want to hurt the thugs right back!
It's simply sad that he's the guy having to try and be something he's not! Though it was fun to see him and Giroux wrestle about as niether guy was going to really throw any real punches - just a good dust-up between each team's top players!
generalgrog wrote:I just watched the highlights from game 3 Pens-Flyers. I thought Schenns hit was fine, it was that crosscheck to the adams apple that was out of line from Adams.
The Schenn hit was dirty as feth, he either aimed high deliberately or he's too stupid (read: physically incompetent) to be playing professional hockey.
He absolutely deserved what he got. You feth around, you get your ass kicked, its really quite simple. I would have done, and have done (in other sports), exactly the same thing.
If this type of behavior is going to stop, the NHL needs to decide that it wants the officials to police players rather than allowing the players to police each other.
What?
listen to Barry Melrose (I think?)..who actually knows something about hockey.
generalgrog wrote:I just watched the highlights from game 3 Pens-Flyers. I thought Schenns hit was fine, it was that crosscheck to the adams apple that was out of line from Adams.
The Schenn hit was dirty as feth, he either aimed high deliberately or he's too stupid (read: physically incompetent) to be playing professional hockey.
He absolutely deserved what he got. You feth around, you get your ass kicked, its really quite simple. I would have done, and have done (in other sports), exactly the same thing.
If this type of behavior is going to stop, the NHL needs to decide that it wants the officials to police players rather than allowing the players to police each other.
What?
listen to Barry Melrose (I think?)..who actually knows something about hockey.
GG
Yep, Schenn's hit was so legal and clean... I mean, he only;
a) charges two thirds the width of the ice (so, you could call him for 'charging')
b) leaps off the ice into his target (also known as a minor penalty for 'bording')
c) targets the opposing player at the shoulders or above (so, a 'high hit' and deserving of a roughing minor)
Ashem only steped up and defended his team mate like any good enforcer would do.
If I ever saw a play like this in a game I was officiating, (and yes, I am a certified OWHA on-ice official), I'd have tossed both players - Schenn a major + game for obviously showing no respect towards his opponent and making a very dangerous hit, Ashem a major + game for cross-checking & intent to injure in retaliation.
If you honestly think Schenn's hit was a 'clean hockey hit', then you need to re-learn a few rules my friend... (or else step up and take a few similar hits and see for yourself just how 'clean' getting decked like that supossedly is!)
The best way to clear this kind of crap up is to simply get rid of the NHL's moronic instigator rule because all it does is protect the goons. Let the players police themselves more like they did in the late 80's/early to mid 90's and you won't have stupid plays like this cropping up in every damn game!
generalgrog wrote:
listen to Barry Melrose (I think?)..who actually knows something about hockey.
Shockingly, I know a thing or two about hockey myself, not on a professional level, but I've been watching it since I was born. Most American kids watched football with their dad's, I watched hockey with mine. I even played for a few years (I was awful, can't skate worth a damn).
The hit was charging, plain and simple, he traveled a sufficient distance for him to leave his feet on impact, and its arguable that he aimed at his head. You could even make the case that his target was defenseless due to his position inside the other Flyer.
Asham's hit was illegal, but so was Schenn's, and he absolutely deserved what he got.
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Experiment 626 wrote:
The best way to clear this kind of crap up is to simply get rid of the NHL's moronic instigator rule because all it does is protect the goons.
It is notable that back in the day, before the instigator rule, the goons of the league were actually decent players too.
That being said, I don't think the instigator rule is a huge issue, I think the NHL just needs to decide, really decide, how it feels about violence in the sport.
OK so I'm not a hockey expert obviously, but I didn't see schen leave his skates until his teammate tripped him and he didn't hit high, he hit at shoulder level. The commentator said it was a clean hit and the NHL is not calling it a dirty hit.
I've only had a chance to watch a couple of games so far due to time, space, and work. I have to say playoffs are about 1000 times better than the regular season...especially the craptastic 'push' some teams put together. <cough> Calgary <cough>
I am curious to see the shake up in Vancouver after they get swept. They do have a great team (they did win the Gary Bettman Trophy), but even if Schneider gets a win for them in the first series, I can't see the team being left intact. As for the Pens, I think they're unlucky they got Philly in the first round. I don't care who wins that series, but it makes me want to see a Flames/Oilers, Loafs/Sens series again for that intensity.
Did anyone else like the music the organist played while Hossa was on the ice spitting up teeth? The linesman was standing right there for the hit and play went on for awhile. Someone won't be officiating in Chicago anytime soon.
Khornholio wrote:Someone won't be officiating in Chicago anytime soon.
Or ever again.
That degree of incompetence is beneath contempt.
The problem is, a Linesman has very little actual power on the ice. Not sure if the NHL makes it worse, but under the CHA guidlines, the Linesman technically can't even blow the play dead in this instance - the injured player's team must gain possession & control of the puck and the Referee blow the play dead, OR the ref has to see it and blow the play dead immediately if they feel the injured player is in need of immediate medical attention.
A linesman who sees an infraction during a play, can at the next stoppage of play, go to the referee and report what they saw. (ie: the infraction commited, player's number, etc...) The referee at that point, may assess a penalty to the guilty player.
Like I said though, that's how Hockey Canada plays it, and sadly, linesmen very rarely follow-up this aspect of their job.
Torres at least has been suspended twice this season and fined once, plus the suspension he got last year in the play-offs! He's a repeat offender, and a known predatory type of player, so hopefully Shanny is allowed by his handlers to really throw the book at this dumb .
If you look, Hossa's eyes are pretty much closed as he's being wheeled off the ice, pretty clear indication he's well & truely concussed! I hope he can recover from his injury in a timely manner, and that he won't suffer long-term symptoms as other players have.
On the Schenn hit... If you watch the hit Schenn delivers, his momentum is broken by the other Flyer before he contacts the Pens player. Schenn was also given a Charging minor on that play.
Asham was dealt the Major not just for the throat check, but also for the punch to the back of Schenn's head. and now a 4 game suspension.
helgrenze wrote:On the Schenn hit... If you watch the hit Schenn delivers, his momentum is broken by the other Flyer before he contacts the Pens player.
No it wasn't, his principle point of contact was the Pitt guy's upper chest. He never makes any significant contact with his teammate, and left his feet.
If you want to make that claim, then anyone else should be able to make the claim that Asham's stick only rode up to the Adam's apple, and wasn't aimed at it, so it was just a garden variety cross-check.
Experiment 626 wrote:
Like I said though, that's how Hockey Canada plays it, and sadly, linesmen very rarely follow-up this aspect of their job.
In the NHL they're required to report major, or misconduct, penalties at the whistle. And, seeing as the linesman in question visibly flinched at the hit...
Raffi Torres needs to be suspended for at least 10 games.
They suspended Shaw for 3 games for his incidental hit on Smith.
Smith will play Tuesday night in Game 3 and had he been injured, Shaw would have sat the rest of this series.
Earlier in the month NHL disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan had this to say about hits on goaltenders out of the crease: "Depending on the intent and depending on the situation, a player runs the risk of being suspended."
Shaw did not intend to hit Smith and still got suspended.
As I've said above, the NHL needs to decide whether it wants a violent game, or a relatively passive one. This half-measure crap just gets people hurt and, honestly, screws the people calling the games.
dogma wrote:As I've said above, the NHL needs to decide whether it wants a violent game, or a relatively passive one. This half-measure crap just gets people hurt and, honestly, screws the people calling the games.
Hockey, like (Am.) football, is an inherently violent sport. Collisions will happen. Given the physics involved, they would be impossible to prevent. However, certain types of impacts can be regulated, and for the most part, they are. Does this stop the players from doing things "in the heat of the moment" that are inherently dangerous and damaging? No.
The reason? You cannot regulate emotion.
This becomes a bigger issue during the playoffs. As each play means more, emotion runs higher. Want to regulat that? Adopt the College football BCS system.
Which sucks.
Khornholio wrote:^^ True. But will Vancouver burn tonight?
I doubt it - it's only the quarterfinals.
Both times they burned a small part of the city, it was after losing the cup itself.
I suspect if/when they lose tonight most Vancouver fans will first cry into their beer, then bemoan how awful the team played, then decide it was all the league's fault becuase both Sedin's were/are currently injured due to very questionable hits!
Why, give them another or two of this, and they'll start to sound like Toronto fans!
helgrenze wrote:Ugly night in Philly.... for the Flyers. 10-3 Pens early in the 3rd.
Philly goaltending was pathetic. I have seen pee wee goalies move faster in the crease...
I saw the stick hold by cooke, but what did he do to get a 10 min. game misconduct other then get punched and cross checked multiple times?
The refs weren't taking any chances. Cooke had helped ignight the situation by holding the stick, he then threw a punch during the dust-up.
Quickest thing for any intelligent ref to do is to simply assess off-setting penalties to each involved player. No team gains an advantage, the clowns can sit it out and cool off.
Had the series not already escalated so completely out of control, I doubt any of the four players involved would have been given misconducts. But, considering the powderkeg that's always close to exploding in this series, better safe than sorry!
It'll be interesting to see if the Flyers player who'd been ejected eariler in the game will face any additional discipline. Pretty stupid what he did, and the Flyers have started alot of BS going on anyways. The Pens have simply been the dumber team by continuousally retaliating through the first three games.
helgrenze wrote:
The reason? You cannot regulate emotion.
No, but you can regulate the behaviors that follow from it. The problem is that NHL has been wildly inconsistent in how it approaches this regulation.
Say what you will about the NFL regarding protection of the quarterback, and really even receivers and running backs, but they decided they would rather err on the side of caution and have consistently come down hard on players both on and off the field who go against that sentiment. Is it always necessarily good, or correct? No, but it is consistent, and that's the sort of punishment that actually leads to prevention.
As a secondary point, I would argue that teams should be punished for the behavior of their players as well, thereby removing the incentive to have guys like Torres on the ice.
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Experiment 626 wrote:
Quickest thing for any intelligent ref to do is to simply assess off-setting penalties to each involved player. No team gains an advantage, the clowns can sit it out and cool off.
Basically.
I think you'll see more of this after the Torres and Asham hits.
There will always be a place for the Dave Schultz's, if it's only for the intimidation factor.
But if every team has an enforcer type player then you run the risk of heavy hits and fights. Add in high emotion and frustration, plus the speed of the game and basic physics......
I think the NHL is doing all it can to control things.
Slowing the game down won't help either.... girls field hockey has roughly the same injury rate.
People talk about "the old days" in both football and hockey.(I've been watching the flyers since the mid 80's) But they don't realize that in the old days they didn't know about the negative long term impact concussions had on players. Hard hits are ok, but not to the head.
helgrenze wrote:There will always be a place for the Dave Schultz's, if it's only for the intimidation factor.
But if every team has an enforcer type player then you run the risk of heavy hits and fights. Add in high emotion and frustration, plus the speed of the game and basic physics......
I think the NHL is doing all it can to control things.
Slowing the game down won't help either.... girls field hockey has roughly the same injury rate.
The NHL is currently a running a joke in how it applies 'discipline' to its players & teams.
For example, every single organisation EXCEPT the NHL have added in the 'checking to the head rule' at least 4-5 years ago! Not to mention they actively punish it too... Here in Canada, doesn't matter if you're playing organise girls hockey, boys house league or junior AAA - a check to the head is at a minium a 2min minor penalty + 10min misconduct. Any kind of decent force, automatic 5min major + game ejection.
The NHL has only just this year brought in a bastardised version of the rule, and they find excuses not to apply it! (especially the officials on the ice)
And to finish it off, organisations like Hockey Canada & Hockey USA have clearly defined rules regarding minimum suspensions for various infractions. (ie: a match penalty in Canadian minor hockey will net you a minimum 4 game suspension + a formal hearing!) The NHL seemingly has no such system so it leads to very inconsistant justice with teams up in arms over the outcome of suspensions, the fans scratching their heads in confusion, and every other governing body like the NFL pointing and laughing!
There's no real punishment overall for running an opposing player and hurting them. Look at the Rangers/Sens series! Alfie is still out, and likely could miss the rest of the series due to a concussion. (I know Ottawa is really pushing to get him back, but my gut feeling tells me he won't be back before game 6 if at all) The guy who hit him? 3 game suspension so he's 100% assured of getting back into the series.
So really, when you're into such a complete 'win at all costs' mentality like pro sports, why not go out and just hurt the other team's star player/s? All you'll get in the end is a pointless fine and maybe upto 5 or 6 games off, while the star player might not be back for months!
NHL 'discipline' is clearly a case of the inmates running the asylum and has been for years. (imho it really began to show after the Moore/Nassland hit which led to Bertuzzi doing what he did, as Crawford had simply incited his team to 'go get him back' due to a complete lack of any responsible action by the NHL)
Torres is officially suspended for 25 games. Looks good on him and hopefully this sends a message to all the other worthless morons like him that senseless & idiotic violence won't be tolerated any more.
Experiment 626 wrote:Torres is officially suspended for 25 games. Looks good on him and hopefully this sends a message to all the other worthless morons like him that senseless & idiotic violence won't be tolerated any more.
Hits to the head have no place in any sport short of boxing and MMA type competitions.
Torres needs more than 25 games, but 25 will have to do. He is such a dirty player, they really need to suspend him for a season and send him to anger management.
I never knew LA had hockey fans till the went up 3-0 against the Canucks.
Being a Canadian living in New Zealand, its very hard to keep up with the Hockey. But the Canucks better reverse sweep the bloody kings and win the cup .
helgrenze wrote:
There will always be a place for the Dave Schultz's, if it's only for the intimidation factor.
Not really. If their intimidation costs the team as a whole, rather than just the player, they will never enter the league.
helgrenze wrote:
But if every team has an enforcer type player then you run the risk of heavy hits and fights. Add in high emotion and frustration, plus the speed of the game and basic physics......
Its not hard to hold off dirty hits, and when they happen it is generally a matter of intent. The only people that do otherwise are either ignorant, or idiots, and shouldn't be playing the game anyway.
helgrenze wrote:
I think the NHL is doing all it can to control things.
The enforcement of rules is far from consistent, and clearly shows a bias towards "old time hockey" without any realistic attempt to account for increased player size relative to the rink.
Hell, even the old "playoff hockey" mantra is a disgrace to the league.
helgrenze wrote:
There will always be a place for the Dave Schultz's, if it's only for the intimidation factor.
Not really. If their intimidation costs the team as a whole, rather than just the player, they will never enter the league.
helgrenze wrote:
But if every team has an enforcer type player then you run the risk of heavy hits and fights. Add in high emotion and frustration, plus the speed of the game and basic physics......
Its not hard to hold off dirty hits, and when they happen it is generally a matter of intent. The only people that do otherwise are either ignorant, or idiots, and shouldn't be playing the game anyway.
helgrenze wrote:
I think the NHL is doing all it can to control things.
The enforcement of rules is far from consistent, and clearly shows a bias towards "old time hockey" without any realistic attempt to account for increased player size relative to the rink.
Hell, even the old "playoff hockey" mantra is a disgrace to the league.
Not looking to derail a Hockey thread but.... Do you honestly think the NFL Refs are going to call the same hits on Peyton Manning and Michael Vick the same way? Not talking actual hits but incidental ones... Manning will get the roughing calls, Vick won't. Partly due to the official's perception of the contact in question, partly due to the player himself. Manning is now viewed as "fragile".
Inconsistant rules enforcement is displayed in all sports, not just the contact ones. Go back and watch some of Jordan's dunks.... He 'travels' on a consistant basis, but since it was Jordan at the height of his playing days he rarely got called for it.
The only way to get consistant enforcement is to replay everything, which make the games longer. Or just make them powderpuff... not touching, no speed. Might as well watch figure skating.
helgrenze wrote:Do you honestly think the NFL Refs are going to call the same hits on Peyton Manning and Michael Vick the same way? Not talking actual hits but incidental ones... Manning will get the roughing calls, Vick won't.
Well, not the ones that deserve to be fired for incompetence, at least assuming illegal hits in both cases. That being said, I'm not so much talking about officiating as much as league action. Shanahan is horribly inconsistent, and the league has been historically so regarding suspensions.
helgrenze wrote:
Inconsistant rules enforcement is displayed in all sports, not just the contact ones.
Sure. But that doesn't mean the enforcers shouldn't be called incompetent for failing to be consistent.
Regardless, this isn't a matter of judgment alone, its a matter of a clear unwillingness to codify what is, and is not, legal regarding injurious hits. And, further, to enforce those flimsy rules that are in place.
helgrenze wrote:
Go back and watch some of Jordan's dunks....He 'travels' on a consistant basis, but since it was Jordan at the height of his playing days he rarely got called for it.
Of course he did, because travelling has been an ephemeral foul in the NBA for 2-3 decades, and was not limited to star players.
The difference, of course, being that when Jordan traveled he didn't take any opposing players out of a playoff series.
helgrenze wrote:
The only way to get consistant enforcement is to replay everything, which make the games longer. Or just make them powderpuff... not touching, no speed. Might as well watch figure skating.
Says the guy that's probably never played a sport in his life, let alone officiated one.
The thing is, this isn't really a game anymore. I mean it is, but at the end of the day millions of dollars ride of every check, shot, and save. Its a profession, not a passion, and it should be administrated as such.
Except that not every injurous hit is intentional. Especially in hockey which is the fastest of the contact sports.
dogma wrote:
helgrenze wrote:
The only way to get consistant enforcement is to replay everything, which make the games longer. Or just make them powderpuff... not touching, no speed. Might as well watch figure skating.
Says the guy that's probably never played a sport in his life, let alone officiated one.
Gotta cherrypick this one..... Professionally? probably as many as you have. Semi pro.... got paid to play some baseball, softball and bike racing. Non-paying, including HS hmmm. not done boxing, lacrosse, Jai Lai, or figure skating, played just about everything else on one organised team or another.
How about your credentials?
dogma wrote:The thing is, this isn't really a game anymore. I mean it is, but at the end of the day millions of dollars ride of every check, shot, and save. Its a profession, not a passion, and it should be administrated as such.
So then your solution would be that OSHA rules be applied? Again, better off watching Ice Dancing then as all "unsafe" practices would be eliminated.
The officials on the ice during the Torres hit should ALL be suspended as well for 25 games. One of them actualy had to move out of the way to avoid being hit by flying equipment from the hit which took place about three feet awayyet didnt make the call...
Philly had a really strong first period just now, they look hungry, but the pens have shown the abiity to rally...
I don't have a good feeling about my Bruins either...
helgrenze wrote:
Except that not every injurous hit is intentional. Especially in hockey which is the fastest of the contact sports.
That's true, but it is blatantly clear, especially given replay, when it is. The NHL is just too afraid of alienating fans of "Old Time Hockey" to behave in concert.
helgrenze wrote:
How about your credentials?
High School: wrestling, football, hockey (summer), rugby, soccer (summer).
College: football (D3 NCAA), rugby (club), hockey (club).
Post-grad: rugby (US 7's, mostly), distance running (Chicago half, New York half).
helgrenze wrote:
So then your solution would be that OSHA rules be applied?
Good on you for appealing to rhetoric, but no. I want consistent rules, and consistent rules enforcement; that's all.
helgrenze wrote:
So then your solution would be that OSHA rules be applied?
Good on you for appealing to rhetoric, but no. I want consistent rules, and consistent rules enforcement; that's all.
Consistancy like that isn't likely to happen, not from fear of alienating older fans, but, rather, to keep the "stars" on the ice. And there is no consistancy on who on any particular team is the perceived "star".
Personally, I would like to see the guy that gets called for the penalty actually Serve the Time for it, but then again it's about keeping the "stars" on the ice.
helgrenze wrote:
Consistancy like that isn't likely to happen, not from fear of alienating older fans, but, rather, to keep the "stars" on the ice.
What stars have been so penalized? Ovechkin?
Flyers/Pens Game 3 3rd period... Penguins argued to keep Neill out of the box after the first scuffle.
dogma wrote:
helgrenze wrote:
And there is no consistancy on who on any particular team is the perceived "star".
No, it is very easy to see who, statistically, is a star. And, as with all pro sports, popular sentiment tracks well with stats.
What I meant was, it is not always the center who is the star of the team... or even a single line, or even from game to game. Heck, sometimes the star is the goalie.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nice win by the Flyers..... but....
Ya know... as a defenseman, I always saw an open net goal (against my team) as an insult.
helgrenze wrote:
Flyers/Pens Game 3 3rd period... Penguins argued to keep Neill out of the box after the first scuffle.
And Neal was later penalized for charging, and suspended for game 4.
dogma wrote:
What I meant was, it is not always the center who is the star of the team... or even a single line, or even from game to game. Heck, sometimes the star is the goalie.
Right, and its all pretty easy to see that statistically. Hell, back in the day even goalies used to get penalties.
DeathReaper wrote:
I never had that problem, but I was in net.
Khornholio wrote:Vancouver!!!! Let the implosion begin!
There's rumors that Luongo could potentially be going to Toronto! (there goes his career down the toilets...)
As for open net goals, as a center on a high caliber competitive team, I'd feel utterly insulted if our coach didn't pull our goalie in those must-win situations! Hell, when it's litterly at the point of 'score a goal or go home crying', who gives a flying fart about giving up one more? That extra skater is needed to help try and pop in a goal and tie the game up.
It's only a crap play if you're stupid about it and say pull your goalie before you actually get the puck over center or into the offensive zone... I've won tournaments thanks to pulling our goalie, it's something you need to bite the bullet and go for at times!
Khornholio wrote:Vancouver!!!! Let the implosion begin!
There's rumors that Luongo could potentially be going to Toronto! (there goes his career down the toilets...)
As for open net goals, as a center on a high caliber competitive team, I'd feel utterly insulted if our coach didn't pull our goalie in those must-win situations! Hell, when it's litterly at the point of 'score a goal or go home crying', who gives a flying fart about giving up one more? That extra skater is needed to help try and pop in a goal and tie the game up.
It's only a crap play if you're stupid about it and say pull your goalie before you actually get the puck over center or into the offensive zone... I've won tournaments thanks to pulling our goalie, it's something you need to bite the bullet and go for at times!
Defenseman's job in that situation is to prevent the other team from getting a puck into that open net. But if the other team gets the puck by you and just tosses it in.... it always seemed like "Yeah we won, and this ones for you."
As for open net goals, as a center on a high caliber competitive team, I'd feel utterly insulted if our coach didn't pull our goalie in those must-win situations! Hell, when it's litterly at the point of 'score a goal or go home crying', who gives a flying fart about giving up one more? That extra skater is needed to help try and pop in a goal and tie the game up.
It's only a crap play if you're stupid about it and say pull your goalie before you actually get the puck over center or into the offensive zone... I've won tournaments thanks to pulling our goalie, it's something you need to bite the bullet and go for at times!
Defenseman's job in that situation is to prevent the other team from getting a puck into that open net. But if the other team gets the puck by you and just tosses it in.... it always seemed like "Yeah we won, and this ones for you."
Hence why when I played AA Bantam, the 6th skater's job was to clog up the center of the ice by keeping positioned up by the ringette line to help support the defense & cycle with the forward in the slot area. This left the other two forwards to forecheck the puck.
The key to it was to ensure your 4 forwards kept cycling through their positions so that no one was left standing around. Also having a defenseman who can 'walk the line' was dead helpfull too!
More often that not, when we had the 6th skater, the other team never got out of their end because of our forechecking system, meaning they had to make about a 200ft shot if they wanted that open net and then more than likely getting an icing call bring the puck all the way back for us!
Khornholio wrote:Vancouver!!!! Let the implosion begin!
There's rumors that Luongo could potentially be going to Toronto! (there goes his career down the toilets...)
As for open net goals, as a center on a high caliber competitive team, I'd feel utterly insulted if our coach didn't pull our goalie in those must-win situations! Hell, when it's litterly at the point of 'score a goal or go home crying', who gives a flying fart about giving up one more? That extra skater is needed to help try and pop in a goal and tie the game up.
It's only a crap play if you're stupid about it and say pull your goalie before you actually get the puck over center or into the offensive zone... I've won tournaments thanks to pulling our goalie, it's something you need to bite the bullet and go for at times!
Of course the Loafs will get Luongo when they need Schneider...
@CT Gamer - any ghost rising coming from beyond the grave would do.
Khornholio wrote:
Of course the Loafs will get Luongo when they need Schneider...
@CT Gamer - any ghost rising coming from beyond the grave would do.
*editting fer spellin' n' such.
Sounds like Luongo might be heading to Tampa Bay? They have a bunch of draft picks banked, plus it's somewhat familiar territory as Luongo began his career with the Panthers and his wife is from Flordia.
Still be funny to see him wearing a fallen maple leaf though!
Looks like Jersey survives for another game though with a 3-2 win in OT. The east are ensuring they drag things out and make these play-offs last to help boost NBC's ratings it seems.
The teams get reseeded after each round with the highest ranked surviving team playing the lowest.
If the Sens and Devils both win then Philly would play Ottawa and Wash would play NJ.
If the Panthers or Rangers win (and the other loses) then Wash plays that team, and Philly plays the other winner.
If Both NYR and Florida win, then Flyers play Panthers, and Caps play Rangers.
CT GAMER wrote:So which team is gonna pick up Thomas when he goes up on the trade block?
He has played his last game as a bruin...
I predict Philly wins the cup...
Nah, Boston will keep him around for 1 more season I think, then if he fails next year, I bet he'll be a gonner.
The real question is, which team wants to put up with his craptastic attitude & ugly ego?! I mean, after game 6 he only came right out and said that Holtby's preformance hasn't been that spectacular because none of his saves were all that challenging AND his team needs to give him more than just a goal or two if they want to win! What a complete 'ing hole...
I think the east will come down to Rangers vs Flyers with the winner of that match-up taking the cup. The NHL needs to make the most off their HBO series ya know!
@CT gamer - Philly to win the cup is a good prediction, but with the dethroning of all the Wests' favorites it will be a good final. As much as I want Phoenix to win, then move to Quebec, they allow way to many shots per game. I just can't see them getting too much further, well at least holding the cup. Most of their games go into OT too, which isn't a great sign.
Prediction: the Loafs will get both Luongo and Thomas but will continue to suck.
Devils Need to execute on loose pucks more. Way too many pucks floating around in front of the net.
Marty has been inconsistent. Great one game. Terrible the next.
And waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many stupid mistakes. Penalty after penalty. Luckily Devils PK has been better in this series. But it's going to be a long series with a hard hitting and fast Flyers team that can score in bunches.
^^I agree. The Kings do look good this year. Not only are they 7-1, but the opponents in the East are beating themselves up bad in this round. I think the Coyotes might give them a run for their money in the West.
I'm quickly losing interest as NBC pulls the strings and ruins everything with their stupid afternoon games every freaking weekend! So much for Hockey night in Canada, might as well just change it too, Hockey when-NBC-declares-it-fits-into-their-scheduling-time in Canada and be done with it...
Also, am I the only one who finds it highly ironic that the Coyotes are suddenly doing so well at the same time the NHL is so desperately looking for buyers to take the team off their collective hands?!
Azza007 wrote:Is it just me or does anyone else think the Kings could go all the way, looking at how well they have been doing so far?
Definitely, I think that taking out my Canucks gave them a HUUUUUGE boost in confidence, and now they are gonna ride that as long as they can... who knows if itll be enough.
Bryz was looking wore out this last game. No wonder though, previous game the Devils outshot Flyers 42-22. Flyers were out shot 163-134 in the series. NJ had 30+ shots on goal in each of the last 4 games. (Flyers shot <30 in same games)
Flyers defensemen were just awful, plain and simple. No way you let another team light your goalie up like that.
I'm hoping the Coyotes-Kings series is a goal tending battle. I'm also wondering if this is going to be Broduer's swan song. If the Devil's win, he should definitely retire and go out on top.
I think NJ has a good chance tonight to end it, but I don't think they're going to get past the Kings. 12-2 is an amazing run especially against the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place teams.
es handed to them. No class, especially the fans in their building when they're pulling crap like boo'ing an opposing player laying hurt on the ice. 
.
(there goes his career down the toilets...)
