I think Eldar/Dark eldar are lame. Their weapons, their fluff...To me, it just falls flat.

Maybe in like 5 years ill go Wow! Eldar are soooo cool!

What is the least appealing army to you, for whatever reason be it fluff or gameworks!

At times I find myself glazing over the propensity of the space marine army. But there really isn't one least appealing army to me. Out of the space marines armies available I think space marines and grey knights are the neatest, but then I look at the other four books and just think "enh" another space marine army, the space wolves are the only other stand out army in my eyes out of the loyalist marine codexes; I feel like dark angels, blood angels, black templars could find a home in the space marines codex, akin to how the craftworld eldar codex had different craftworld units.

.(I'm not lumping chaos space marines into it because we don't have a seperate codex for every famous legion, World Eater, Thousand Son's, Red Corsairs,etc, though if we did I've probably complain about that too.)

Black Templars
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Grey Knights
Space Marines
Space Wolves

Sisters of Battle
Tau Empire
Tyranids
Orcs
Imperial Guard
Necrons
Dark Eldar
Eldar
Chaos Daemons
Chaos Space Marines

Orks interest me about as much as getting kicked in the face.

You do realize that this thread is bound to descend into bad feelings and butt-hattery?

And now I'll go on and contribute to it. Whee!

*Ahem*

I don't get much from Orks, either. Individual Orks are as dumb as posts, so it's hard to have a heroic individual character in my army with which I can identify. Orks are mindlessly destructive, so they don't even have the epic awesome and tragedy of Dark Eldar or Chaos Marines, but their models don't look as cool as Tyranids or Daemons. I don't find their haphazard aesthetic challenging to paint or model. I know a lot of people have done cool things with the Orks, but I think it would be too easy for me to be lazy. I prefer armies with a strong aesthetic other than chaos. The gothic complication of Blood Angels (and some other marines) or the smooth simplicity of Tau (and, I suppose, Eldar) is a lot more appealing to me.

Also, Imperial Guard. Seriously, if I wanted to paint completely normal looking soldiers, I'd play a Historical.

Sisters of battle, just... lame. Also don't care for necrons. Perhaps in order from least favourite to the point where I would consider an army.

1. Sisters of Battle (nuns with guns, woopee I am being sarcastic)
2. Necrons (fine army, I just like IG and Tau more for shootyness)
3. Grey Knights (Games Workshop needs more Deathwatch loving)
4. Blood Angels (enough gold to make Calgar look like a bum, also there are enough specialist CQC armies)
5. Space Wolves (more marines)
6. Black Templars (yet more marines)

Grey Knights. I liked them in 2nd when they appeared as a singular squad. But I'm not a fan of the way they have evolved.

Gray knights and Space Wolves. Hey look, I'm good at everything, isn't this game FUUUUN?

Anything MEQ really.

I find the oddball races much more fun, tau, nids, necrons, and daemons.

Out of all the races, Orks is the only one that I cannot ever see myself wanting to use. At some point I have looked deeply into the races, their backgrounds, their heros, history, units, ect. except for the Orks.

Tyranids.

Grey Knights, Tyranids and any kind of Eldar.

and maybe tau but thats iffy.

I disdain anything Space Marines. They're such boring models to paint and have become over popular to a fault.

Tau. I actually feel like they're out of place in the setting. The Imperial armies are representative of the current most dominant power in the galaxy. Chaos is the Archenemy. The Eldar are an ominous reminder that others have fought Chaos and lost, with the Dark Eldar serving as the analogue to the Traitor Legions and Lost and the Damned. As an aggregate the two eldar factions are struggling to simply continue existing after the galaxy slipped from their grasp, a warning of what could happen if Chaos destroys the Imperium. Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons represent the ancient, omnipresent dangers of an old galaxy. Tau are cheerful upstarts. I suppose they make for the naive and optimistic faction, but to me that just doesn't really fit with a dystopian universe where idealism is long dead and everything is dying by inches.

In addition, I dislike the general aesthetic of their equipment. It feels like anime Star Trek. It's also quite at odds with the brutal or ancient equipment used by every other faction. Eldar elegance has a more appealing archaic bent that I find less objectionable.

I also dislike their playstyle. Their gunline style has the worst bubblewrap ever, there's only so much room to run on the board, and they lose to Guardsmen in a brawl. Their squads are overspecialized (lolfirewarriors and their no-specials), their mechanized support doesn't let infantry fight from within it. One-dimensional play is never good.

In short, I don't like their place in the setting, their look, or even how they play on the table.

Blood angels, I can't respect someone who wears a breast plate with nipples on it.

Ok for me I do not care for most of the SM armies, They are just over done. Sisters of battle also make the list because they are space Nun SM wannabes. I like just about every other faction, although Deamons and Chaos SM are also low upon the list of armies for me.

The space marine static gameplay and blocky model just makes them boring, and if you've played/seen on MEQ army you've pretty much played/seen all of them. The only ones that doesn't are Grey Knights and I have a far more rage inducing reason to not like them.

Deamons codex. I just hate everything about them. Orginization, fluff, and for the most part the models too.

I agree that tau really seem out of place in the 40k world, but I could in theory see playing them, and some of their models aren't so bad.

I think the least appealing army is tyranid.

Models-wise, what are they, bugs? Lizards? Not only is the concept not really there, but I've yet to see a tyranid army that looks good once the models are completely painted up, and the 'eavy metal ones are absolutely wretched. Blue and red bug-lizards? What 5-year-old's crayon drawing is that based off of?

The fluff doesn't get any better. Why are they in the galaxy? Because they accidentally wound up there. What are they doing? Destroying everything. Why? No reason at all, they don't think, much less are they capable of motivation. I mean, what are you representing with a tyranid army, a battle caused by accidental intergalactic indigestion?

I'd really like to like tyranid, as their game mechanics and play style is otherwise very interesting to me, but I couldn't stand actually owning and playing a tyranid army to make that happen.

I've got to say Necrons, a lot of their new models look stupid and out of place.

Chaos, in both its incarnations.

I can't see myself ever touching the Tyranids. Nothing about them catches my attention at all. I preferred them back in the Space Hulk and space crusade days when they were another incarnation of Chaos, striking from within, instead of a huge mindless horde.

Orks at least have character!

Nids, sob (teenage boys' wet dream), grey knights (prefered them when they were a specialized unit), dark elders (why not have these with the eldar?) and necron (another universe with an Ai seeking to destroy humanity). I don't ever see myself touching any of these.
Space marines and tau are in the "probably not", daemons I can use as part of my csm leaving Eldar and orks as my next possible army choices

I cannot touch Orks, I just don't find them appealing at all, their models or their fluff. A second least favorite would be Tau, soon followed by Craftworld Eldar. The Craftworld Eldar models are hideous to me, especially when compared to the beautiful Dark Eldar models.

And, while I do like the Imperial Guard, the Catachan models are just plain Hideous. Some of their arms just remind me of the 90's Stretch Armstrong.

Tau. I hate their whole idea and execution. The models just look stupid to me.

The kroot are alright though.

I'd probably have to go with the new Necrons.

Why? Because in the old fluff, the Necrons were the ultimate horror in the galaxy and universally feared.

Now they are fancy Tomb Kings in space.


Iranna.

It's almost like the Necrons went from being the original Terminator T-800 model straight to being the T-800 from Terminator 2: Judgment Day.

I am disappoint :(. I liked the OldCrons, for some strange reason.

Necrons. I never particularly liked them and most of their models, but the Newcron update just took out the implacable horror that I actually found interesting in them.

slaanesh based anything, who wants to field scores of boob-worms?

Tau.

Space COMMIES?

Yeah, no thanks.

Chaos in general, I'll never side with that anywhere. ( thus it goes beyond 40k )

The rest in order from 2nd least appealing upwards:
- nids = not interested in playing the swarm type army
- tau = stupid fluff, too much fanwank if you're with them. They will have to have a few editions to either find their place or get eaten by the above ^
- orks = killed so many in RPG's, seems it has become a part me to oppose them...
- dark space elfs = I liked the whfb character in a book, but I am not a fan of the 40k spiky space elfs.
- Eldar = too far from my ability to paint. If I wanted an army, I had to have it painted..... but here we come into the neutral area as I could see me giving them a try on the TT.
- anything else I already own.

space marines

nothing cool about them.

At least the tyranids cloned something interesting...

blood reaper wrote:Tau.

Space COMMIES?

Yeah, no thanks.

Read my sig.

1hadhq wrote:
- tau = stupid fluff, too much fanwank if you're with them. They will have to have a few editions to either find their place or get eaten by the above ^

:p

I find Chaos my least appealing. Just never really liked them, or to be exact, Nurgle and Slannesh.

Obviously a lot of people are going to say the Tau because they don't fit as smoothly into the exegerated amount of grimdark injected into this game. But I think they are a bit of fresh air into a setting that easily feels stale.

Personally I think Space Marines appeal to me the least. Not because I dislike Space Marines as such, they are an iconic piece of 40k. I just think they are too bloody many of them. One sort of space knight is all that is needed, thank you.

Probably imperial guard.

I understand why they are in the lore, I just don't think they belong in a sci-fi game.

I cannot imagine me playing as Orks or Dark Eldar.

I dislike Orks mainly because of their fluff. Sure, it's fun sometimes but it's actually only mindless warmongering. I kinda like their models, but the idea of playing as Orks is just... unappealing.

I won't play as Dark Eldar either. I already play as the Eldar, and (don't kill me) I don't like the Dark Eldar models. I like only four of their models, the Archon, Kabalite Warriors, Razorwing Jetfighter and Reaver Jetbikes. The rest I find hideous. The fluff is just Dark Elves is space too. Dark Elves from Fantasy are way more interesting fluff-wise.

Emerett wrote:Probably imperial guard.

I understand why they are in the lore, I just don't think they belong in a sci-fi game.

As opposed to the elves, the knights, the space orcs and the space demons from space hell.

Emerett wrote:Probably imperial guard.

I understand why they are in the lore, I just don't think they belong in a sci-fi game.

This. A thousand times.

I even played the occassional FoW game and the like. But in 40K, they are just wrong.

Tyranids and Sisters of Battle for me, simply because I don't like the models at all...

Sisters of battle,closely followed by tau and necrons.I don't like the models, fluff or play style of any of these armies.

Blood Angels for me. I hate their fluff SO much I can't even open the codex without gagging. I've always hated even before Mat Ward. It's just bad. The models look terrible. The new mechanics are a giant y -filled -factory, and way to many people play them already.

I also dislike regular Eldar. Their fluff just doesn't appeal to me. I like the Dark Eldar though and really want to start collecting them.

While I like Eldar and Dark Eldar fluff, I hate their play style. I could never get into them.

Necrons, though more the Oldcrons than the new ones. Never liked the old ones fluff wise. They always felt like little more than a plot device to me. I'm withholding judgement on the new ones until they have more exposure.

Tyranids, for similar reason to the above. I'm fairly tired of huge swarming "bug" forces in sci-fi settings in general.

SoBs. Or Tau. They are gun nuns and cartoons.

And I like CC armies. Hate Shooty ones.

I don't really like anything about Space wolves (they seem silly to me) .
eg: wolf riders??

I dont like The Red space marines.
What i always call them as they seem to have very litte difference other then.. their red oh and angry?

For this reason i would say i don't like a lot of the space marine offs hoots

Grey knights are just a bit, over the top?? Space marines are enough of the things they embody i don't feel the setting needs them. And their rules... cheese aside I HATE the idea of an army with free inbuilt bonuses against another army (daemons). I mean warhammer is not rock paper scissors... if something is in the fluff good against daemons, make them good against them. But don't slap on rules that plain buff them.

Eg: A landraider hunter squad has 5 meltas, not some anti land raider rule.

I don't feel its fair on the daemon player to give the grey knights such a huge free advantage.

But i will say i like marines in general .

Fluff wise i like daemons but the models for anything bar Khorne.. just unappealing.

I used to dislike Tau models (with their plank cannons) but ive come to like them.


So really i like all armies in most ways. sorry

Bobthehero wrote:Orks interest me about as much as getting kicked in the face.

100% agreed.

The least appealing for me personally are tyranids. Tyranids gene stealers fluff bother me with the whole infecting people to mate with other and create tyranid hybrids. This jus ruffles my feathers I don't know why haha.

Probably Tau. They don't interest me model wise, or fluffwise. Most other armies at least get one of the two for me. Tau would have to have a total revamp to interest me at all.

Ledabot wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Tau.

Space COMMIES?

Yeah, no thanks.

Read my sig.

So their.... Astro Communists?

I have to go with SM. The are boring to look at, are over saturated in most areas and all versions have special ablities that boggle ones mind.

All Xenos are good. I dont mind any of them and get excited to play against anything other than SM.

But with there being some serious blance issues with 40k these days I am glad Im moving right along to WHFB and FoW.

I hope 6E fixes some of the issues but I doubt it will.

blood reaper wrote:

So their.... Astro Communists?

They have an entire caste, 1/4 of their population, dedicated to trade and business. That gives them arguably a largest economically active population, both relative and absolute, of any 40K faction and the only society in 40K with something of a "market" aside from "teef".

I see a new tau Unit coming.

The Tau Business Suit.

Special Abilities:

Can force one unit of the enemy to trade in ALL weapons and armour for the obviously far superior Tau Pulse Rifle and FireWarrior Armour of 4+ save....


Oh Lord would I love to do that to a unit of StormShield Terminator cheese! =]

This thread is funny. It seems like everyone hates everything Sm. I dont get it. This game for the most part is space marines.

That being said Grey Knights kinda blow due to their OPness.

Milisim wrote:I see a new tau Unit coming.

The Tau Business Suit.

Special Abilities:

Can force one unit of the enemy to trade in ALL weapons and armour for the obviously far superior Tau Pulse Rifle and FireWarrior Armour of 4+ save....

The Imperial Guard would love that!

Fluffwise I really don't like orks, Tabletop wise, Space Marines

Castiel wrote:

Milisim wrote:I see a new tau Unit coming.

The Tau Business Suit.

Special Abilities:

Can force one unit of the enemy to trade in ALL weapons and armour for the obviously far superior Tau Pulse Rifle and FireWarrior Armour of 4+ save....

The Imperial Guard would love that!

FRFSRF pulse rifle

I would not like to face that! :O

tau. Just tau.

Deathshead420 wrote:This thread is funny. It seems like everyone hates everything Sm. I dont get it. This game for the most part is space marines.

That's the problem. I would trade in 10 Space Marine Players (and their lives) for at least one Xenos player. After Six-Seven Codexes dedicated just to them, it starts grating on your optimism that there's nothing BUT the dull, featureless, boxy Spehs Mahreens.

Daemons, in my opinion they should never have got their own codex in 40k. Daemons have always been summoned in the wake of the Chaos Legions, in fact it was a good fluff explanation of how the Legions match the imperium for numbers despite 10,000 years of war, because they summon their infernal allied during realspace incursions. Full demonic breaches without mortal followers are virtually impossible, which was part of what I liked about them. If daemons can invade on their own then what was the point of the Horus Heresy? Also the Daemons codex requires mixed god armies to be competetive which spits in the face of the fluff. Honestly I hate seeing armies of bloodletters lead by Fateweaver, it just doesnt feel right, I'll never know why they gave them their own book when they were perfectly at home in Codex Chaos Space Marines.

Even as a Tau player I feel sorry for the Chaos boys.....

Splitting the dex into 2 has killed off one of the best armies in the game.

You never had a clue what you were playing against when a guy said he played CSM.

Now your certain what is coming as its all mostly crap lol

KplKeegan wrote:
That's the problem. I would trade in 10 Space Marine Players (and their lives) for at least one Xenos player. After Six-Seven Codexes dedicated just to them, it starts grating on your optimism that there's nothing BUT the dull, featureless, boxy Spehs Mahreens.

Not sure what your problem is.

2008: A total of 25 new Xenos/Daemon releases vs. a total of 12 new Space Marine releases (in the year of the Codex Space Marine release)
2009: A total of 25 new Xenos/IG releases vs. a total of 13 new Space Marine releases (including goddamn Space Marine casulties)
2010: A total of 33 new Xenos/Chaos releases vs. a total of 10 new Space Marine releases.
2011: A total of 26 new Xenos/Chaos releases vs. a total of 8 new Space Marine releases.

Thus, over the last 4 years we've head a total of new, individual and unique 109 Xenos/Chaos/IG releases vs. a total of 43 new, individual and unique Marine releases. Seems far fetched to say there's nothing "BUT the dull, featureless, boxy Spehs Mahreens". If it is, it's clearly not GWs fault if players dont take up them up on the rich pickings they throw out to Xenos people.



2011 Releases


2010 releases


2009 releases


2008 releases

KorPhaeron77 wrote:Daemons, in my opinion they should never have got their own codex in 40k. Daemons have always been summoned in the wake of the Chaos Legions, in fact it was a good fluff explanation of how the Legions match the imperium for numbers despite 10,000 years of war, because they summon their infernal allied during realspace incursions.

As a Daemon player, I'd say go cry some more! Why should I be forced to include crap I don't want just to play my army?! I like my pure Daemon army and it serves me quite well!
You can keep your power armour thak-you very much.

Spliting up Chaos Marines and Daemons was one of the best decisions GW made for 40k as it stopped alot of abuses like the daemonbomb or else bulking out expensive chaos marines with hordes of cheap fodder.
Now both camps can play their way and there's plenty of room for expansion as the books get re-done.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:Full demonic breaches without mortal followers are virtually impossible, which was part of what I liked about them. If daemons can invade on their own then what was the point of the Horus Heresy?

Full-blown dameonic incursions are a huge threat! (so much so that the Imperium has even founded an entire chapter of marines who are specially trained & equiped to deal with the threat!)
Chaos doesn't need mortal followers to spill out into real-space. Areas such as 'warp storms' are volitile & unstable enough that a daemonic host can tear their way onto our plain in nearby sectors. Planets that once were fought over by daemonic armies retain that taint the viel of reality is horribly thin on such worlds.

Chaos get their numbers from the masses of mortal followers such as mutants & traitors. Chaos marines are the real shock troops and Daemons are the unending tide.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:Also the Daemons codex requires mixed god armies to be competetive which spits in the face of the fluff. Honestly I hate seeing armies of bloodletters lead by Fateweaver, it just doesnt feel right, I'll never know why they gave them their own book when they were perfectly at home in Codex Chaos Space Marines.

Clearly you've never seen what an Epidemius Nurgle army can do, or else the sheer amount of dakka a Tzeentch army can bring. Mono-god armies are viable - even Khorne with a pair of 'thristers, a couple 'grinders and a flappy prince.

I don't know, maybe we got our own book because by the tail end of the last chaos marine book, most competitive CSM armies were either IW's or else some variation of a giant daemonbomb? Codex: 'Chaos Daemons and the Spiky Marine stag party' probably wouldn't fit on the cover, so instead us daemon players finally got our own army!

Just because the current chaos marine book was a pile of crap right from the get-go shouldn't invalidate Daemons as their own seperate book.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:Also the Daemons codex requires mixed god armies to be competetive which spits in the face of the fluff. Honestly I hate seeing armies of bloodletters lead by Fateweaver, it just doesnt feel right, I'll never know why they gave them their own book when they were perfectly at home in Codex Chaos Space Marines.

Sorry. But mixed armies are not against the fluff. There has always been mixed armies ever since Chaos was introduced to 40K. Sure, they had animostity and were prone to infighting. That was what made them unique and set them apart from the more "disciplined" loyalist forces. But to bring this defining element into Chaos that made them unique, you need to mix them. That was the essential design paradigm.

It's the sad legacy of WAAC-players with no respect for the fluff, who tried to sidestep animosity in the early books, that mono-lists become considered to be somewhat the norm. They are not. Mono-lists have been and always should be the exception. The "typical" Daemon (and CSM) force will always be mixed, as it should be.

blood reaper wrote:

Ledabot wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Tau.

Space COMMIES?

Yeah, no thanks.

Read my sig.

So their.... Astro Communists?

No. They are a despotic totalitarian collectivist imperialistic utilarianist society ruled by theocratic hereditary oligarchies watching over meritocratic councils. Not communists of any kind.

Thus, over the last 4 years we've head a total of new, individual and unique 109 Xenos/Chaos/IG releases vs. a total of 43 new, individual and unique Marine releases. Seems far fetched to say there's nothing "BUT the dull, featureless, boxy Spehs Mahreens". If it is, it's clearly not GWs fault if players dont take up them up on the rich pickings they throw out to Xenos people.

How many Space Marine suppliments are there? How many suppliments are there of IG? Eldar? Orks? Maybe Necrons, after it took GW over a decade to update. Maybe Dark Eldar, after if took GW a decade to update.

Because GW obviously cares about every army and saturates them equally. Isn't that right Sisters of Battle?

Hmm Going to have to do this backwards .. only counting codex armies.

Fave - Imperial Guard
2nd - Chaos Marines
3rd - Orks
4th - Dark Angels
5th - Eldar
6th - Sisters of Battle
7th - Dark Eldar
8th - Space Wolves
9th - Tau
10th - Space Marines
11th - Tyranids
12th - Blood Angels
13th - Grey Knights
14th - Necrons
15th - Chaos Daemons
16th - Black Templars


It was a toss up between Daemons or Templars, going to put down Templars. Not even sure I can fully explain it, just not a fan.

KplKeegan wrote:

How many Space Marine suppliments are there? How many suppliments are there of IG? Eldar? Orks? Maybe Necrons, after it took GW over a decade to update. Maybe Dark Eldar, after if took GW a decade to update.

Because GW obviously cares about every army and saturates them equally. Isn't that right Sisters of Battle?

It obviously doesn't saturate them equally. Compare, say, the near 30 different miniatures/kits released for the Dark Eldar with their latest book in comparions to the whooping 7 releases Grey Knights got. And do you play with supplements or with miniatures? Me, I play with miniatures. And to give, say, Grey Knight a halfway fair share of attention in comparison to, say, Dark Eldar, there's obviously about 20+ something Grey Knight releases still missing to get to that "equal saturation".

Space Wolves. "We like wolves, we ride some, we have fangs...like wolves, we are rustic and wear bits of fur and bone. Anyone not on a wolf gets a missile launcher. Zzzzz

Demons. Dull, limited range of creatures and beings. Yeah some marines fell pray to it. The Emperor holds it back yadada....Needs personality, a king behind the Chaos. Chaos has alot of potential, its crazy how GW ignores it.

Zweischneid wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:

How many Space Marine suppliments are there? How many suppliments are there of IG? Eldar? Orks? Maybe Necrons, after it took GW over a decade to update. Maybe Dark Eldar, after if took GW a decade to update.

Because GW obviously cares about every army and saturates them equally. Isn't that right Sisters of Battle?

It obviously doesn't saturate them equally. Compare, say, the near 30 different miniatures/kits released for the Dark Eldar with their latest book in comparions to the whooping 7 releases Grey Knights got. And to give, say, Grey Knight a halfway fair share of attention in comparison to, say, Dark Eldar, there's obviously about 20+ something Grey Knight releases still missing to get to that "equal saturation".

Because the Dark Eldar don't need the new models to go with the new units they haven't recieved the 10+ years before their new codex, while I can pick between FIVE different box sets for the SAME tactical marine squad.

As of right now the armies I can never see collecting are

Sisters of battle, when they get a new codex and a nice set of new models then we'll see.

deamons of chaos, Just not interested

Tau, they almost didn’t make the list because I forgot they existed, I think the modes are all super bland and boring.

KplKeegan wrote:

Because the Dark Eldar don't need the new models to go with the new units they haven't recieved the 10+ years before their new codex, while I can pick between FIVE different box sets for the SAME tactical marine squad.

Grey Knights also waited 10+ years. Get off your high horse there will ya. I can choose three different books and dozends of different kits to play squish "high-tech-aliens" in floaty-boats. Not exactly diversity there either. But its getting away from your initial complaint.

You complained that you were tired of, I quote - the dull, featureless, boxy Spehs Mahreens. That was a compaint about the visuals of the Marine range, not the books. I have shown you that over the last 4 years, GW has release more than twice as many "non-Space Marine" units than Marine units. If you insist, I can show you the same for the last 10 to 12 years. Non-Marines for 40k have always outstripped Marine releases 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.

Zweischneid wrote:You complained that you were tired of, I quote - the dull, featureless, boxy Spehs Mahreens. That was a compaint about the visuals of the Marine range, not the books.

You assumed it was the miniature range.

Zweischneid wrote:

KorPhaeron77 wrote:Also the Daemons codex requires mixed god armies to be competetive which spits in the face of the fluff. Honestly I hate seeing armies of bloodletters lead by Fateweaver, it just doesnt feel right, I'll never know why they gave them their own book when they were perfectly at home in Codex Chaos Space Marines.

Sorry. But mixed armies are not against the fluff. There has always been mixed armies ever since Chaos was introduced to 40K. Sure, they had animostity and were prone to infighting. That was what made them unique and set them apart from the more "disciplined" loyalist forces. But to bring this defining element into Chaos that made them unique, you need to mix them. That was the essential design paradigm..

No. Just no. You keep bringing up this stupid gak into conversations and even after being told you're wrong, you still keep at it, don't you?

Originally when Chaos was introduced, you couldn't do mixed forces. The only force that allowed you to do this was Black Legion in RT era because they switched from god to god so often. Otherwise, there was animosity. You could not have Slaanesh dudes in a Khorne force. Full stop. Or if you could, you were at a disadvantage. Animosity is there for army balance, not to stop WAAC gamers.

What made Chaos unique was the fact that they did not obey the laws of nature. Possessed by daemons, granted Chaos attributes. Could summon Daemons. Were veterans of the Horus Heresy. That's what made Chaos Space Marines unique.

The essential design paradigm was that you chose one specific god and you dedicated your warband to them. That was that. If anything, the WAAC gamers are the ones who abuse the system and mix in the different gods, like using Skarbrand to give your Daemonettes a re-roll to hit.

crons and space wolves. their models and fluff are just crap :/

supprised to see this much hate for sisters BTW XD

DPBellathrom wrote:

supprised to see this much hate for sisters BTW XD

This does not come as a shock to me. I am still kinda new and have been hearing SoB hate for ages, even before I got into 40k

While they fill a niche, I'm not a big fan of Dark Eldar.

Probably Blood Angels for me; they're just Space Marines with Fast vehicles. Wow. Somebody call the imagination brigade, because a dam of it just burst.

Space marines. It's not like there is anything bad about them. They just don't appeal to me.

Grey Knights.

They were cool once. I still hold my old Daemonhunters book and cry alone in a corner.

Now they're super badarses who don't afraid of no one and are super mega cool and write names on hearts and summon ghosts and are super extra special special!

Daemons. I mean, yeah, they're all Lovecraftian horrors from a different dimension rather than medieval daemons, but they look just like medieval Daemons. And that's an enormously uninspired look, to me.

any space marines except maybe wolves are easily the top, wolves get a a semi pass as they actually have some style. SOB and foot IG (gimme tanks, tanks and more tanks) would also make my list as absolutely no interest ever. Tau, maybe someday might be interesting but so far they have never held an interest either.

Mordiggian wrote:Daemons. I mean, yeah, they're all Lovecraftian horrors from a different dimension rather than medieval daemons, but they look just like medieval Daemons. And that's an enormously uninspired look, to me.

40k itself is medieval Fantasy in space. Going off that, you should be finding the entire game uninspired.

I'm not that surprised regarding the Eldar-hate. The presence of elves always polarizes people. As an Eldar player, I've learned to accept this.

People also seem to be hating Tyranids. This comes as a surprise to me considering they fit the setting perfectly. They fit the archetypes of the pure alien, the unknown, the horror, the body-mutilation, and the hordes without number.

---

Personally, I dislike Tau primarily for their fanbase.

Aside from the fanbase, Tau just have an annoying plot-shield that protects them from being wiped out.

The Imperium and Necrons exist because they're resilient.
Tyranids and Orks exist because they have numbers.
Eldar and Dark Eldar and Chaos exist because they have somewhere to run where they are mostly untouchable.

Tau have none of those advantages. They don't have the resilience of the Imperium, their tech and bodies are inferior. They don't have the numbers of any other faction. They also have nowhere to run when the fighting goes bad.
Their only reason to exist is plot-shield.

Also, their anime mecha design is just unappealing to me.

---

Additionally, the Space Marines in 40k are just too plentiful to even be likable at this point.

Orks, fluffwise are my favorite. Bad ass adrenaline junky creatures that can fix and make anything work? Awesome. Board game wise, I hate them. When someone moves an ork or something and they go ha! HILARIOUS orks are HILARIOUS hahahaha I FETHING Rage inside.
I had this guy the other day tell me Hey man! Orks are like, psychadelic mushrooms dude! They are like, totally spores dude!

I was major raging.

The books portray them nicely, the recent space marine game portrays them as eh
Which theres another question. 600000000 orks invaded that planet and you fight them in groups of 6? jeez.

Grey knights because they went from an ultra-rare(even by SM standards) but powerful and used only against the demonic to being able to own every race and have absurd rules. I love the trilogy and how they are portrayed in other books, but its always goes like this: ultra-elite, ultra-rare, despite being able to own nearly any space marine, most of what makes them awesome is that they are the weakness of Daemons, without Daemons present they are alot less powerful, useful and a waste of resources.

Eldar I can't stand their demeanor and tau are too naive/cheerful for my taste.

If I had to choose, I'd probably thin out the space marine codexes. When half the game's codexes come from one fraction of a faction, something is wrong. I understand they're all "different", but the game feels more like "spacemarine 40k" and less like actual variety every time I play. And this is coming from a guy who plays IG. i went into my store a couple of days ago to see a team game going on. 4 of the 6 armies were space wolves. I get people like the army, but it just gets tiresome. I can never find myself able to care about which ones I'm fighting, i always end up thinking "looks like I'm fighting blue marines today" *yawn*. The only ones that are actually all that different are grey knights, space wolves, and maybe the templar or dark angels, the rest just look too similar. I'm sorry guys, but its just hard to think otherwise when 4 out of 5 people you play are running marine armies. They just blur together and any uniqueness just dissappears.

Also, for the guy saying the stuff about how the spacemarines only recieved a third of all kits released over the past few years (sorry, on phone, cant check for your name) Did you take into account the fact that many of the kits are used for almost all the chapters? For example, a grey knights rhino, and a space wolves rhino come from the same kit. If you count them as unique for every marine codex, you'd probably have 2 times the marine kits compared to all the other factions combined (sad part is, i may not be exxagerating there) 8 or so factions all using the same rhino, the same drop pod, the same landraiders, etc. they don't need to release as many different kits since many are cross compatible.

Vladsimpaler wrote:
No. Just no. You keep bringing up this stupid gak into conversations and even after being told you're wrong, you still keep at it, don't you?

Originally when Chaos was introduced, you couldn't do mixed forces. The only force that allowed you to do this was Black Legion in RT era because they switched from god to god so often. Otherwise, there was animosity. You could not have Slaanesh dudes in a Khorne force. Full stop. Or if you could, you were at a disadvantage. Animosity is there for army balance, not to stop WAAC gamers.

What made Chaos unique was the fact that they did not obey the laws of nature. Possessed by daemons, granted Chaos attributes. Could summon Daemons. Were veterans of the Horus Heresy. That's what made Chaos Space Marines unique.

The essential design paradigm was that you chose one specific god and you dedicated your warband to them. That was that. If anything, the WAAC gamers are the ones who abuse the system and mix in the different gods, like using Skarbrand to give your Daemonettes a re-roll to hit.

Um. There was no Black Legion of that name in Slaves of Darkness yet, though they had introduced Horus. Also, there wasn't even animosity yet in slaves of darkness. Indeed, you couldn't even choose which Daemons/Possessions/etc. you got. In RT, you just rolled (D10 still back then) on a table with 1-2 getting you Khorne, 3-4 getting you Slaneesh, 5-6 Nurgle, 7-8 Tzeentch and 9-10 Independent every time you summoned thngs or got possessions. Unless you rolled constantly the same number, it was impossible in RT to have a "mono-God" force. By pure virtue of the fact that the game used dice, you were bound to get a mixture of things(who, in RT-days, weren't even afflicted by animosity).

I find the Eldar models to be super ugly, and the fact that they're psychic space elves make me wanna heave. Also, some chaos models just look like butt.

Favourite

Necons
Space Wolves
Salamanders
Sisters of Battle
Orks
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Tyranids
Dark Eldar
Blood Angels
Imperial Guard
Demons of Chaos
Grey Knights
Eldar
Ultramarines
Dark Angels

Least Favourite

I personally cant stand the Tau, I'm probably going to upset some people by saying that but I just think they could be so much more bad ass than they currently are. My friend collects them and they have never done anything that has made me say "WOW!" in battle, they just seem pretty lame to me.

Cryonicleech wrote:Grey Knights.

They were cool once. I still hold my old Daemonhunters book and cry alone in a corner.

Now they're super badarses who don't afraid of no one and are super mega cool and write names on hearts and summon ghosts and are super extra special special!

Exalted Pariah wrote:Grey knights because they went from an ultra-rare(even by SM standards) but powerful and used only against the demonic to being able to own every race and have absurd rules. I love the trilogy and how they are portrayed in other books, but its always goes like this: ultra-elite, ultra-rare, despite being able to own nearly any space marine, most of what makes them awesome is that they are the weakness of Daemons, without Daemons present they are alot less powerful, useful and a waste of resources.

I agree with these. When I first found out about grey knights and their fluff, I thought, "wow, these guys are really cool." I liked them because they gave a "good" supernatural feel. They were made to seem very rare, very mysterious. They were made to feel like a very special, unique resource that you don't pull out against "lesser" threats. They were almost the space marines of space marines.

Now, they just feel like a force-field dog (toy story) complex. Even though they are still the "elite", their scarcity feels downplayed. I half expect two of them to bump fists and say "Wonder Knight Powers.... ACTIVATE!"

I get the same feeling from them now that I got way back in old Battletech from the Federated Suns fluff. It has been a long time, but I still remember the character Victor Stiener-Davian making me give up reading a book series out of sheer annoyance of him never really "losing". Or the same feeling I got from Thrall in the Warcraft fluff (specifically in Warcraft 3). Annoying, super warrior who is the settings "good guy", and never really loses. His weakness is being TOO NOBLE. In fact, Warcraft orcs, despite being originally derived from WHFB Orcs, are what made me love 40k Orks. Because, I loved the Orcs in Warcraft 2. Then Warcraft 3 essentially said, "despite the fact that these guys slaughtered everything in their path a few years ago, it wasn't their fault, they were being controlled by demons. They're actually super good and noble."

So when I got in to 40k and Orks were Orks again, stomping about just looking for a fight, I immediately knew what my first army was going to be.

As for Tyranids, I dislike them because they fit the setting so well. Because I'm tired of jumped up space locusts here to devour your world(s).

Daemons. Should just be extras for CSMs.

Grey Knights. They shouldn't be a stand alone army to start with.

Though I guess I have a small problem with daemons as well because of how awkward it'll be to use the Word Bearers if they bring back their proper rules in the next codex.

Vet guard, coteaz, longfang spam, purifier spam, Vulkan. Most of my problems come from lack of fluff support or internal logic.

Vet guard hold a ridiculous amount of firepower for little reason or cost. When marines are venerating their wargear as sacred it seems odd that 3 guys that lived through a few battles would suddenly be thrown a couple holy relics and sent off, PER SQUAD. Gameplaywise, being able to take 2 of these squads in chimeras for a handful of points more than space marines with upgrades in a rhino... yeah.

Coteaz. Yeah I get he has connections and what not, and being an inquisitor means he can draw on any sort of resources he desires, but the mix of what he can take is bizarre. Again, average joe being better equipped than the greatest warriors and assassins because assassins be cool.

Longfang spam, not very fitting for sons of Russ to sit back and shoot when there is glory to be had. The mass of heavy weapon squads

Purifiers, it's doubtful these things should even be fieldable in the first place, much less able to be in larger numbers than their own fluff puts them at. And their startlingly low points cost. And their bad fluff (purest of the pure who purify).

Vulkan just because of the massive hit he does against the codex's internal balance. It's bad when a single character takes everything that is considered required/good in this edition and makes it twice as good. He just outshines every other character in that book to the point of them being... well, pointless.

Absolutionis wrote:Also, their anime mecha design is just unappealing to me.

Sorry, I find it amusing seeing that statement come from an Infinity player.

Chaos marine players who can't stand the fact Daemons are seperate army and think my army shouldn't exist because it supossedly 'belongs' in their book.

I agree with a lot of what Surtur said, with the exception of the Vet Guard and Coteaz stuff. In terms of fluff, it doesn't make a ton of sense, but for game play, it's not broken at all in my opinion. They have a great selection of weapons and can have a lot of them, but they are still just guardsmen in close combat. And lets be honest, pretty much every game ends up in close combat. Space Marines may take a beating to there, but that's the entire IG stratagem (pound em as much as possible before the inevitable melee). And in close combat, all those fancy weapons mean nothing.

As for the Coteaz thing, how is he an average Joe? Or did I misinterpret your post? Inquisitors are the complete opposite of average Joe, and Coteaz is a veteran inquisitor, making him even LESS average lol.

Everything else, I agree with. I played a guy who had 60 purifiers......even though there are only supposed to be 40 (they should put that in the errata so that you can only take up to 40 with Crowe). Believe it or not, I beat the guy! I got dumb lucky mind you but a win is a win

Vulkan is monster, plain and simple. He makes your army ridiculous against mech lists, he makes your army ridiculous against MC, and he makes your army ridiculous against horde lists. And since it's in the SM dex, your army is already good against everything else! He's one of those things that really just doesn't belong in the game at any point cost in my opinion.

And the Long Fang spam!?!? Talk about being contradictory to the fluff!

I don't really like Eldar (neither the Smooth nor the Creamy varieties) and I can't really claim to be a huge Tyranid fan, but I think that's more personal preference than anything else. I dislike elves in general, and there are a lot of parallels to the Eldar, which makes them distasteful to me. And I dislike the lack of individuality amongst the Tyranids.

SoB - Imo, there is just no redeeming quality I can think of for this army.

Honorable mention:
Orks - They need to be scarier, meaner, and not freaking fungus.
Chaos anything - I don't know what it is about the Chaos side of things that puts me off it, but they just don't do much for me.

I actually like most of the marine chapters, I just wish they'd condense the number of dexes for them.

Zweischneid wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:
No. Just no. You keep bringing up this stupid gak into conversations and even after being told you're wrong, you still keep at it, don't you?

Originally when Chaos was introduced, you couldn't do mixed forces. The only force that allowed you to do this was Black Legion in RT era because they switched from god to god so often. Otherwise, there was animosity. You could not have Slaanesh dudes in a Khorne force. Full stop. Or if you could, you were at a disadvantage. Animosity is there for army balance, not to stop WAAC gamers.

What made Chaos unique was the fact that they did not obey the laws of nature. Possessed by daemons, granted Chaos attributes. Could summon Daemons. Were veterans of the Horus Heresy. That's what made Chaos Space Marines unique.

The essential design paradigm was that you chose one specific god and you dedicated your warband to them. That was that. If anything, the WAAC gamers are the ones who abuse the system and mix in the different gods, like using Skarbrand to give your Daemonettes a re-roll to hit.

Um. There was no Black Legion of that name in Slaves of Darkness yet, though they had introduced Horus. Also, there wasn't even animosity yet in slaves of darkness. Indeed, you couldn't even choose which Daemons/Possessions/etc. you got. In RT, you just rolled (D10 still back then) on a table with 1-2 getting you Khorne, 3-4 getting you Slaneesh, 5-6 Nurgle, 7-8 Tzeentch and 9-10 Independent every time you summoned thngs or got possessions. Unless you rolled constantly the same number, it was impossible in RT to have a "mono-God" force. By pure virtue of the fact that the game used dice, you were bound to get a mixture of things(who, in RT-days, weren't even afflicted by animosity).

Thank you for proving that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Go check page 268 of Slaves to Darkness. Whaaat? Could it be? The Black Legion? Say it ain't so!
Only the Black Legion had the possibility having multiple Daemons from different gods, otherwise you were restricted to the god in your chosen army list. Otherwise, unless you took Black Legion, Daemons were subject to hatred of their opposed deity. Also, you have the World Eaters being subject to the hatred of followers of Slaanesh, and Emperor's Children subject to hatred of followers of Khorne.

Also, please direct me to the page number and book where you rolled to summon, because in Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned you paid the points and then you had to roll to see if they were even available.


And to stay on topic, I find the Daemon army to not be appealing at all, since they should be back with the Chaos Space Marines. Grey Knights used to appeal to me but their fluff nowadays just weirds me out.

:edit: I see what you're talking about with the D10, that's the Daemonic Intrusions table. That was totally independent of the army lists and only happened when daemons attempted to use a psyker as a gate to realspace.

I like space marine I just dont like that they have all these separate books for different chapters.

Other tgan that tau and eldar/dark eldar dont interest me. I mean i like robot anime but tau just look stupid.

The least appealing 40k army is whatever army that a fluff-nazi is pontificating about...

The two armies I have no interest in at all are Eldar (except Dark Eldar) and Tyranids. Eldar because I find them dull. They were my first and longest-running opponent back in 2nd Edition, and I can't say much has changed with them over the years. Oh yeah, except Eldrad is dead now. Even though you can still field him.

I don't like the 'Nid asthetic. I like the idea of Nids, and some individual models look cool, but I would hate to paint an army of them.

I wouldn't play Chaos Demons, because they are not their own army. They are a part of the Chaos Marine list, and should never have been given their own book. Same deal with the Grey Knights; they should have stayed in the Ordo Malleus.

bmoleski wrote:I agree with a lot of what Surtur said, with the exception of the Vet Guard and Coteaz stuff. In terms of fluff, it doesn't make a ton of sense, but for game play, it's not broken at all in my opinion. They have a great selection of weapons and can have a lot of them, but they are still just guardsmen in close combat. And lets be honest, pretty much every game ends up in close combat. Space Marines may take a beating to there, but that's the entire IG stratagem (pound em as much as possible before the inevitable melee). And in close combat, all those fancy weapons mean nothing.

As for the Coteaz thing, how is he an average Joe? Or did I misinterpret your post? Inquisitors are the complete opposite of average Joe, and Coteaz is a veteran inquisitor, making him even LESS average lol.

Everything else, I agree with. I played a guy who had 60 purifiers......even though there are only supposed to be 40 (they should put that in the errata so that you can only take up to 40 with Crowe). Believe it or not, I beat the guy! I got dumb lucky mind you but a win is a win

Vulkan is monster, plain and simple. He makes your army ridiculous against mech lists, he makes your army ridiculous against MC, and he makes your army ridiculous against horde lists. And since it's in the SM dex, your army is already good against everything else! He's one of those things that really just doesn't belong in the game at any point cost in my opinion.

And the Long Fang spam!?!? Talk about being contradictory to the fluff!

I'm not talking about Coteaz himself, but the storm trooper replacements that can basically take any piece of wargear made ever. Storm Shields, power armor, thunderhammers, you name it. Assassins all over the place in battle. Then being able to take this rag tag bunch and make an entire army out of them. I can see them as a retinue or command squad of sorts, but not as an army. Again, it's just one of those things that strikes me as wrong.

Vet guard are one of the best troop choices in the game for a reason. 3 meltas means 2 dead marines, a terminator or a tank and all for ~140 points with transport. A transport that conveniently lets all 3 fire. And melta being top dog for special weapons. And they got BS 4. Yeah, I'm a little bitter that they can do that.

Grey Knights. Space marines are already "elite of elite" so making "elite, elite, elite" just screams bad fan fiction. I mean The elite of the elite of the elite super marines that everyone knows are the best in the galaxy but they are so secret no one even knows they exist with geneseed of the emperor! (don't even get me started on that horrible theory). That are so pure nothing can ever corrupt them and yet they need to murder innocents to combat...corruption.

Add in the fact they are the most common codex out right now with the idea of "take what other marines have but make it better". I really can't stand them.

On another note, I am surprised more people haven't said sisters of battle. Playing an army composed entirely of women is definitely not everyones cup of tea. But other than GK, I have a decent interest in pretty much all the armies. If they weren't so expensive to start up I would probably have 3-4 times the number of armies I do.

Surtur wrote:Vet guard are one of the best troop choices in the game for a reason. 3 meltas means 2 dead marines, a terminator or a tank and all for ~140 points with transport. A transport that conveniently lets all 3 fire. And melta being top dog for special weapons. And they got BS 4. Yeah, I'm a little bitter that they can do that.

Acutally its 155 Points with a bare bones Chimera--170 if it takes Extra Armor. Or 130 Points if the Vets take a Doctrine before the Chimera...

Least Appealing to me has to be the Dark Eldar. That is because I have always hated the idea of "Dark" races. I can get behind a race of evil elves, but the whole "Dark" thing makes me wretch.

KplKeegan wrote:

Surtur wrote:Vet guard are one of the best troop choices in the game for a reason. 3 meltas means 2 dead marines, a terminator or a tank and all for ~140 points with transport. A transport that conveniently lets all 3 fire. And melta being top dog for special weapons. And they got BS 4. Yeah, I'm a little bitter that they can do that.

Acutally its 155 Points with a bare bones Chimera--170 if it takes Extra Armor. Or 130 Points if the Vets take a Doctrine before the Chimera...

So close... I just didn't feel like getting up and double checking so I guesstimated it. Hence the "~" :3

Least appealing has to be Grey Knights for me.. I played Dawn of War and had read a little bit about them, and it seems to make more sense for them to be an elite choice or something, don't know that they really need their own book, but I could say the same thing about Dark Angels and Black Templar.

Blood Angels seem to be at least a bit different, as well as Space Wolves, but when I was first starting the game it was a bit wtf to see so many codexes written forever ago (ie they can't even update them properly) yet they have an overkill amount of space marine books. Made me wonder why they didn't have fewer books and just try to make them all play better/equal.. Still wondering that actually.


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UsdiThunder wrote:Least Appealing to me has to be the Dark Eldar. That is because I have always hated the idea of "Dark" races. I can get behind a race of evil elves, but the whole "Dark" thing makes me wretch.

I agree and I play them.. I really am not a huge fan of the "Dark" word before something to represent evil, just sounds cheesy, but the book itself was pretty interesting and I eventually was sold on them with all the great models and cool units.