So Day 2 is in the home stretch and we are watching the team tournament.

Here are the Day 1 results for the 40K Championships.

http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2012/04/adepticon-40k-championship-results-day.html


There were 7 of the top 16 that were Grey Knight players. Bill Kim deserves Kudos for making it to the top 5 with Chaos Daemons. And a Dark Angel player made it? Damn!

7 Grey Knights
2 Space Wolves
2 Orks
1 Chaos Daemon
1 Imperial Guard
1 Necron
1 Eldar
1 Dark Angel

We will cover the final round tomorrow and have video interviews with Forgeworld, Black Library and the rest of the guests up tomorrow.

Alec

I am really hoping that the Eldar player wins.

Happygrunt wrote:I am really hoping that the Eldar player wins.

Its reece, and I'm with ya! Would love for a dakkaite to take home the gold. Plus reece is a good dude!

Zid wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:I am really hoping that the Eldar player wins.

Its reece, and I'm with ya! Would love for a dakkaite to take home the gold. Plus reece is a good dude!

I know it is Reece, and really, he is playing a foot list. Granted, not my preference (Foot IG), but ground pounding is ground pounding, and I want what is seen as "the worst style of list" win it all.

Zid wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:I am really hoping that the Eldar player wins.

Its reece, and I'm with ya! Would love for a dakkaite to take home the gold. Plus reece is a good dude!

Goooooo Reece!

Anyone want to set up some sort of Reece cheer to be played if he makes it to the top table tomorrow?

Happygrunt wrote:Anyone want to set up some sort of Reece cheer to be played if he makes it to the top table tomorrow?

Reece should give shoppers at Frontline Games a special discount or something if he wins it all!

YAY REECE!

Gotta remember to text him some support tomorrow.

I'm fairly certain we all want Reece to win.

Reece is a nice guy and all but, as a Necron player, I'm hoping for 2 results....

1: The Necron player takes it all.
2: The 7 GK players take 10th-16th place.

Any idea what list the Cron player is using?

what kind of armies did Reece play games 1-4?

Game 4 he played space wolves.
what about 1-3

Can we officially say that GK are more competitive than Space Wolves yet?

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Can we officially say that GK are more competitive than Space Wolves yet?

I'd like to see the breakedown of how many of each army were there first before making that detemination.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Can we officially say that GK are more competitive than Space Wolves yet?

GK are the equivalent of Rogues in vanilla WOW... you faceroll your keyboard and beat people up. Honestly, I think the dex is just so easy to make great lists that its hard NOT to lose.

While I'm rooting for Reece, I think Nick (yermom) is going to take it. Sorry Reece buddy.

I have to root for the Chaos Daemons player. It takes a lot of skill (and more than a little luck) to wade through a sea of Grey Knights to make it to that level. A random player with a GKGM and a unit of Interceptors can conceivably wreck you on Turn 1...

bummer an ork player dropped out so another GK got in.

Go lone ork guy

calypso2ts wrote:I have to root for the Chaos Daemons player. It takes a lot of skill (and more than a little luck) to wade through a sea of Grey Knights to make it to that level. A random player with a GKGM and a unit of Interceptors can conceivably wreck you on Turn 1...

Bill Kim is/was a Dakkite. He's a member of DD1, IIRC.

Platuan4th wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:I have to root for the Chaos Daemons player. It takes a lot of skill (and more than a little luck) to wade through a sea of Grey Knights to make it to that level. A random player with a GKGM and a unit of Interceptors can conceivably wreck you on Turn 1...

Bill Kim is/was a Dakkite. He's a member of DD1, IIRC.

Hold on, I thought DD1 was the all mod team...

Happygrunt wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:I have to root for the Chaos Daemons player. It takes a lot of skill (and more than a little luck) to wade through a sea of Grey Knights to make it to that level. A random player with a GKGM and a unit of Interceptors can conceivably wreck you on Turn 1...

Bill Kim is/was a Dakkite. He's a member of DD1, IIRC.

Hold on, I thought DD1 was the all mod team...

Bill Kim is Centurian99.

go nick and murphy for the WC!!!!!

Yes i recruited young nick last year...HA...

I'm pulling for Reecius. Hopefully GK will all cancel each other out. Watch out for those psykout grenades

I gotta throw my support for Nick N / Yermom (he's a dakkite too!). He's from my flgs and an all around awesome guy (even though he's playing gk ).

I'm stuck in business meetings all tomorrow but looking forward to watching the IC coverage after the fact. It will stay uploaded right?

Hopefully Reecius sees this thread before he plays. HE HOLDS THE HOPE OF THE ENTIRE 40k COMMUNITY IN HIS HANDS!

Because foot Eldar beating out 7 GK would the greatest moment ever. Off all time.

I talked to Reece about his army heading back in a carpool from San Diego. He said he was playing for fun and that if he doesnt place he doesnt care. Im not sure if its finalised but he opted out a wraithlord for 3 more scatter walkers. Your tactics seem to be working out perfectly! Stomp those knights back into middle tier! ( BAO reference)

Defeatmyarmy wrote:I talked to Reece about his army heading back in a carpool from San Diego. He said he was playing for fun and that if he doesnt place he doesnt care. Im not sure if its finalised but he opted out a wraithlord for 3 more scatter walkers. Your tactics seem to be working out perfectly! Stomp those knights back into middle tier! ( BAO reference)

Reece is a class act, so I'm sure he will handle whatever comes with dignity and grace.

DOing my live coverage on my blog check it out if you want guys.

So far unless it has already been reported Paul Murphy won his first game in record time . As well demons are already out. I think dark angels are gone to by space wolves. A few grey knights will be canceled out because of mirror matches.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/22/network-news-adepticon-2012-day-4-the-championship-finals/

your site has loading problems for some reason

any place to see the army lists being used?

Watching Reece vs Grey Knights, ATM. Love Reece's commentary(Warning: NSFW).

Reece is trying to argue with the GK player that Draigo doesn't get the effect of the brotherhood banner for the squad of paladins he is with, claiming that in assault, an IC becomes it's own squad. I think he's pulling at strings and should know better than that.

Reece lost...he had a slim chance at the end, but everything was just going Paul's way.

helium42 wrote:Reece is trying to argue with the GK player that Draigo doesn't get the effect of the brotherhood banner for the squad of paladins he is with, claiming that in assault, an IC becomes it's own squad. I think he's pulling at strings and should know better than that.

I think that may be the exhaustion from playing so much 40k talking.

Who won between Kopach and Nick?

Edit: Just saw that Kopach won by 53 victory points, wow...
So final 4 are:
Alex Fennel
Tony K
Brad Chester
Paul

So 2 GK, 1 SW, and 1 Necron..
Not the most surprising of the top 4 armies, at all.
Lets go Fennel, kick some ass.

Go Alex! Kill dem pesky grey knights with you bloodcrusher topped tomb spyder!

go space wolves.

How did Reece's avatar die? Had it taken any wounds to shooting?

Is the Daemon player Goatboy?

I am glad Reece is doing well, not surprising since he is a great player, but still really cool to see someone who devotes so much time to running great events getting to place in great events too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zathras wrote:

helium42 wrote:Reece is trying to argue with the GK player that Draigo doesn't get the effect of the brotherhood banner for the squad of paladins he is with, claiming that in assault, an IC becomes it's own squad. I think he's pulling at strings and should know better than that.

I think that may be the exhaustion from playing so much 40k talking.

I would be inclined to agree with Reece on this one.

Daemon player was dakka dakka's own Centurian99 aka Bill Kim.

Reece lost to Paul Murphy aka TPM aka blood angel (on dakka) aka guy that beat Reece last year in Adepticon finals -- but had a great shot had it not gone to turn 7. Was a fun game to watch

OverwatchCNC wrote:Is the Daemon player Goatboy?

I am glad Reece is doing well, not surprising since he is a great player, but still really cool to see someone who devotes so much time to running great events getting to place in great events too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zathras wrote:

helium42 wrote:Reece is trying to argue with the GK player that Draigo doesn't get the effect of the brotherhood banner for the squad of paladins he is with, claiming that in assault, an IC becomes it's own squad. I think he's pulling at strings and should know better than that.

I think that may be the exhaustion from playing so much 40k talking.

I would be inclined to agree with Reece on this one.

• An independent character may not join or leave a unit during the Shooting and Assault phases – once shots are fired or assaults are launched it is too late to join in or duck out!
• An independent character may not join or leave a unit while either he or the unit is locked in combat or falling back.

The rulebook would disagree with you both.

The part of the text on page 49 that you might be confused about refers to treating the IC as a separate unit entity only for the purposes of allocating hits and resolving wounds. No where does it say that the IC ceases to be a part of the unit.

Further evidence is found in the rules regarding the psychic power hammerhand, which is not cast until the assault phase. It states that it effects the entire unit, including ICs, and it stacks. If ICs became separate entities, then a librarian's hammerhand would only effect the librarian, and the squad's hammerhand would only effect the squad. They would never stack.

helium42 wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:Is the Daemon player Goatboy?

I am glad Reece is doing well, not surprising since he is a great player, but still really cool to see someone who devotes so much time to running great events getting to place in great events too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zathras wrote:

helium42 wrote:Reece is trying to argue with the GK player that Draigo doesn't get the effect of the brotherhood banner for the squad of paladins he is with, claiming that in assault, an IC becomes it's own squad. I think he's pulling at strings and should know better than that.

I think that may be the exhaustion from playing so much 40k talking.

I would be inclined to agree with Reece on this one.

• An independent character may not join or leave a unit during the Shooting and Assault phases – once shots are fired or assaults are launched it is too late to join in or duck out!
• An independent character may not join or leave a unit while either he or the unit is locked in combat or falling back.

The rulebook would disagree with you both.

"When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a separate single-model unit (as described under Multiple Combats on page 41), even though they have joined the unit."

You gain an attack from being a part of the unit with the BB, when you are resolving attacks as an IC you are considered a separate unit, a separate unit cannot benefit from a unit bonus. You only have attacks when you are resolving them, therefore you can't claim a bonus attack from wargear in a unit you are not part of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

helium42 wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:Is the Daemon player Goatboy?

I am glad Reece is doing well, not surprising since he is a great player, but still really cool to see someone who devotes so much time to running great events getting to place in great events too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zathras wrote:

helium42 wrote:Reece is trying to argue with the GK player that Draigo doesn't get the effect of the brotherhood banner for the squad of paladins he is with, claiming that in assault, an IC becomes it's own squad. I think he's pulling at strings and should know better than that.

I think that may be the exhaustion from playing so much 40k talking.

I would be inclined to agree with Reece on this one.

• An independent character may not join or leave a unit during the Shooting and Assault phases – once shots are fired or assaults are launched it is too late to join in or duck out!
• An independent character may not join or leave a unit while either he or the unit is locked in combat or falling back.

The rulebook would disagree with you both.

The part of the text on page 49 that you might be confused about refers to treating the IC as a separate unit entity only for the purposes of allocating hits and resolving wounds. No where does it say that the IC ceases to be a part of the unit.

Further evidence is found in the rules regarding the psychic power hammerhand, which is not cast until the assault phase. It states that it effects the entire unit, including ICs, and it stacks. If ICs became separate entities, then a librarian's hammerhand would only effect the librarian, and the squad's hammerhand would only effect the squad. They would never stack.

Exactly. Hammerhand effects attached ICs because it makes a specific inclusion for them. The BB makes no such inclusion for the IC and therefore does not grant them the bonus in CC.

You only have attacks when you are resolving them, therefore you can't claim a bonus attack from wargear in a unit you are not part of.

But they are only not part of a unit for allocating hits and resolving wounds. In every other regard they are a part of the unit. If a piece of wargear gives a unit-wide bonus, then the IC benefits.

This isnt YMTC. It is played in every tourney I have ever been in, that an IC gains any bonus's he is allowed from the unit, he is just able to get picked out in close combat. We dont need to beat a dead horse here....

How did the Team Tourney go?

Pink necrons vs. what looks like purifiers right now. Go pink!

helium42 wrote:

You only have attacks when you are resolving them, therefore you can't claim a bonus attack from wargear in a unit you are not part of.

But they are only not part of a unit for allocating hits and resolving wounds. In every other regard they are a part of the unit. If a piece of wargear gives a unit-wide bonus, then the IC benefits.

No, it states they are not a part of the unit for resolving attacks. It does not specify which attacks are being resolved, those being swung by or against the IC, therefore it is for all attacks being resolved in close combat.

Where does the brb or the codex state that the IC benefits from all wargear bonuses in CC? Things like rad and psychotroke grenages effect the unit being assaulted and therefore the benefits of said effect apply to all the units in CC with said unit. If what you state is clearly true then there would be no reason for a power like hammerhand to make specific inclusions for ICs.

I agree, I will move this to YMTC.

Fennel vs Purifier spam? O man go Alex, get dem power armored funny boys with MSS!

go crons. prove to matt ward that he cant mess up the crons just by making practically every unit expensive and slow. defeat the cheese we call the gray knights (was the `r´ supposed to be there. I cant remember)

I believe the GK player is playing henchmen GK with a unit of purifiers.

Fennel just lost his scarabs to a bad assault, coteaz plus an IC along with a rhino. Blew the rhino up, but with coteaz and the ICs grenades, all scarabs got wiped out...
Should not have sacrificed all his scarabs for one rhino. May potentially lose him the game to due to free movement and loss of units on his opponents turn.

And one dread just got 2 pens and a glance on a ghost ark...destroyed. Plus 1 dread just aced two wraiths, while purifiers are about to unload and assault 2 spyders. Fennel is going to have to make a comeback after this turn...

Wonder where I can get that Rhino silhouette Wreck Marker they're using.

They seem to be in desperate need of a turn counter...

Wraith's should have just ID Coteaz......but he just put a wound on him....

I noticed 2 mistakes in Alex's game as necrons:


1. He moved the monolith and then teleported his guys through it.

2. He used Glood Prism to cancel out Hammerhand cast within 3" of it.


It just goes to show that everyone can make mistakes, especially after 5-6 games.

He could have re-rolled a failed to hit roll with coteaz and didn't.

Did they just forget to fight the cotez combat on the Necron turn?

Res rolls have been poor lol

Awesome streaming, the IC's are doing a great job with coverage. It's nice knowing that mistakes are made on the big levels, now I do not feel so bad.

NoArmorSave wrote:I would easily table any of these guys with my Fatecrusher Daemons. They wouldn't stand a chance.

Oh yeah? How did you do at Adepticon this year, anyway?

puma713 wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:I would easily table any of these guys with my Fatecrusher Daemons. They wouldn't stand a chance.

Oh yeah? How did you do at Adepticon this year, anyway?

didnt you know? NAS always beats GK with Daemons, never loses.

The main event for #1 - Tony Kopach's Njal Space Wolves vs Brad's Henchmen Grey Knights.

My money is on Tony.

Final table setting up! SW vs. GK.

I got that wrong

INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

It's turn five and it looks like GKs have a slight advantage for the win.

Tony Kopach is imba, nerf Kopach.

Kopach loses. GK wins Adepticon 2012.

Brad's GK wins!

Looks like GKs take it. Thanks to BoK for covering these battles. I know I've spent a lazy Sunday watching three great matches instead of writing a research paper due tomorrow. Cheers to all involved.

Entertaining game for the most part. Cant say I am surprised GK won it all though.

No black templars? I should have been there. 7 Grey Knight players?! Before the new codex there werent even that many in exsistance lol!

Glad to see grey knights win a major tournament. Its nice to know that gw doesnt have a problem shifting up the power armies.

XIngKe wrote:No black templars? I should have been there. 7 Grey Knight players?! Before the new codex there werent even that many in exsistance lol!

Actually, it was 8. One of the Ork players dropped.

Platuan4th wrote:Wonder where I can get that Rhino silhouette Wreck Marker they're using.

For those wondering where the wreck markers came from, www.gdesignsinc.com is the place. They have wreck markers for pretty much any vehicle in 40k and a nifty blast marker with a ruler attached.

Platuan4th wrote:

XIngKe wrote:No black templars? I should have been there. 7 Grey Knight players?! Before the new codex there werent even that many in exsistance lol!

Actually, it was 8. One of the Ork players dropped.

That's what they call a smart Ork

That last game sorta soured me on competitive 40k it. It was just a dice off

Platuan4th wrote:

XIngKe wrote:No black templars? I should have been there. 7 Grey Knight players?! Before the new codex there werent even that many in exsistance lol!

Actually, it was 8. One of the Ork players dropped.

Yeah, but not before beating Goatboy and me.

Blackmoor wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

XIngKe wrote:No black templars? I should have been there. 7 Grey Knight players?! Before the new codex there werent even that many in exsistance lol!

Actually, it was 8. One of the Ork players dropped.

Yeah, but not before beating Goatboy and me.

To me, just making the Top 16 is an accomplishment to be brought of, whether you decide to play in the finals or not. Pretty sure I'd never be able to make it.

Honestly, not sure if I have the grit required to play 3 full days of 40K straight*.





*Most likely a lie, since my last trip to Gencon was nothing but me demoing/playing games for 4 days straight open to close. And more games after hours.

Platuan4th wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

XIngKe wrote:No black templars? I should have been there. 7 Grey Knight players?! Before the new codex there werent even that many in exsistance lol!

Actually, it was 8. One of the Ork players dropped.

Yeah, but not before beating Goatboy and me.

To me, just making the Top 16 is an accomplishment to be brought of, whether you decide to play in the finals or not. Pretty sure I'd never be able to make it.

Honestly, not sure if I have the grit required to play 3 full days of 40K straight*.





*Most likely a lie, since my last trip to Gencon was nothing but me demoing/playing games for 4 days straight open to close. And more games after hours.

My luck, I'd make it that far, and then have a game where I'd roll nothing but straight 1's, until it came time to roll leadership, then nothing but 6's. That's always how it seems to go for me in tourneys. I'll do well the first couple of games, and then my dice flat out rebel.


Congrats to the guys who made it that far.

Is there any where we can look at the the winning list and Kopachs as well? Though I'm sure Kopachs list hasn't changed much.

Regards,
Crynn

helium42 wrote:Reece is trying to argue with the GK player that Draigo doesn't get the effect of the brotherhood banner for the squad of paladins he is with, claiming that in assault, an IC becomes it's own squad. I think he's pulling at strings and should know better than that.

I am pretty sure I got that call right.

I did like how right when Kopach lost, the stream chat box was filled with people cheering for him to flip the table.

Thanks so much for the support, guys! That means a lot to me.

Almost had it! I was winning turn 5, winning turn 6, but Paul got me turn 7.

Gah, he is a lucky git! He seized the initiative on me again this year!

What a fun tournament, the Mighty, Mighty Footdar dang near pulled it off.

Day 1 Tony Kopach and I played round 4, and I only needed 55 more VPs to beat his Wolves. Had the game ended turn 5, I would have won, had my Avatar fleeted 2 more inches turn 6, I would have won. Soooo close! But luckily us tying didn't knock either of us out of the event.

As for the Independent Character thing, I genuinely thought that I was right on that one, and still do, but who cares. Paul and I always have good games, and we were both trying to win so things like that happen. Neither of us took offense, it was just one more attempt to try and win the game, and it was fun.

Well, I think I can safely say the internet can kiss my Footdar booty! They are legit. Day 1 I played my worst match-ups (Tony Kopach's Wolvf list, Tony Kopach and his wolves, Venom SPam DE and IG), and I only went first 1 out of 6 games. I literally had to fight and claw my way to the final 8.

Awesome time! Adpeticon is so fun.

Again, thanks for the support guys, that really is so awesome to see you guys pulling for me! Yermon beat ChrsitianA in day 1 in a crazy close game, but Tony got him day 2 with some luck. He did great though and won overall day 1! Dakka kicking butt like usual.

Congratz to Brad Chester and his Grey Knights. He's a former Footdar player, too! He went to the Dark Side with Grey Knights this year and it paid off.

Sorry for all the cursing on the live stream! hahaha, I curse like a sailor (bad habit) but Paul and I were laughing during our game which is always my goal. It is just a game after-all . I even got Tony Kopach to laugh twice when I did my good luck dance! He never usually even smiles during games, I take that as a morale victory!

Again, does anyone know where we can look at the winnign lsit or if we can watch the final on youtube or something?

Regards,
Crynn

Hey guys will be posting the complete winning list in about an hour from this message on the blog. Dead tired at the moment but will get it up.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/22/network-news-adepticon-2012-day-4-the-championship-finals/

It was a coteaz and grandmaster with purifiers and inquisitorial troops.

Ok the list PDF is up on the site have a look .

tastytaste wrote:Hey guys will be posting the complete winning list in about an hour from this message on the blog. Dead tired at the moment but will get it up.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/22/network-news-adepticon-2012-day-4-the-championship-finals/


It was a coteaz and grandmaster with purifiers and inquisitorial troops.

Last year (2011) I stated that one of the strongest builds is going to be the Cortez Builds and was tinkering with one at the time.

I saw very little downside to that sort of build. Brutally efficient.

Secondly I was rather surprised and intriqued that Reece went Footdar.

The Meta seems to be GK's, though I'll stay with my pups and continue to buy certain models for all my armies for the approaching 6th ED changes.

Oh for Petes sake! Tony almost won it AGAIN with Wolfs AGAIN, maybe player skill have something to do with it.

Instead of this build or that codex are the greatest/cheesiest of all time maybe the story should be Tony Kopach is one of if not the greatest general in 40k.

Secondly I was rather surprised and intriqued that Reece went Footdar.

Huge respect for taking footdar, and even more so for taking them as far as he did. It was like watching Rocky Balboa slugging it out with Apollo Creed.

blackjack wrote:the story should be Tony Kopach is one of if not the greatest general in 40k.

Wow.

blackjack wrote:Oh for Petes sake! Tony almost won it AGAIN with Wolfs AGAIN, maybe player skill have something to do with it.

Instead of this build or that codex are the greatest/cheesiest of all time maybe the story should be Tony Kopach is one of if not the greatest general in 40k.

7 out of the top 16 finalists did indeed play GK. There has to be a reason for such.

Tony Kopach us a highly respected player who kept playing with his space wolves instead of jumping on the GK band wagon. I commend him on staying with Spaces Wolves, which is the same reason why I am staying with my space pups as well.

So, who is planning for next year? (I am...)

8 out 16 were grey knights, actually. Greay knights are a crutch! :-)

I brought footdar beacuse they are my favorite army to play. I came to have fun this year, and to show the world footdar can and will win against any other books. Considering I tied tony and his wolves, and only lost to paul's grey knights on vp's and bad luck, I think the point's been made.

Regardless, it was super fun. It got me excitex about 40k again as I haven't been playing at all lately.

Tony is a good player.

He tied Reece, he tied Yermon/Nick and won on just a few VPs and lost to Brad. He is the equal to the top players, but not the greatest ever.

@helium42
Thanks!

Blackmoor wrote:Tony is a good player.

He tied Reece, he tied Yermon/Nick and won on just a few VPs and lost to Brad. He is the equal to the top players, but not the greatest ever.

He is currently one of the best players. It's nice to see the young guys kicking ass.

Wow, the winning list uses a lot of minimum sized henchman bands in order to get a lot of vehicles (chimeras and razorbacks). Is this the norm in tournament play now? I guess min/max has always been a technique so maybe this happens a lot.

JB wrote:

Wow, the winning list uses a lot of minimum sized henchman bands in order to get a lot of vehicles (chimeras and razorbacks). Is this the norm in tournament play now? I guess min/max has always been a technique so maybe this happens a lot.

Spamming vehicles has been the most common tournament build since 5th edition.

Tony has mastery over his SW and it shows how he finely tuned the list to his tastes and experience helps him know how to play the army. Reece did the same with footdar. Footdar is deceptive because people look at it and underestimate the army but its the case of good players make the army very good and some bad players can make it crash and burn.

Reecius wrote:8 out 16 were grey knights, actually. Greay knights are a crutch! :-)

I brought footdar beacuse they are my favorite army to play. I came to have fun this year, and to show the world footdar can and will win against any other books. Considering I tied tony and his wolves, and only lost to paul's grey knights on vp's and bad luck, I think the point's been made.

Regardless, it was super fun. It got me excitex about 40k again as I haven't been playing at all lately.

I saw this and thought of you, Reecius:



Congrats on how well you did!

Platuan4th wrote:Wonder where I can get that Rhino silhouette Wreck Marker they're using.

Greenman Designs. They'll be at Wargamescon this year, or you can buy them from their online store. So awesome.

GK whining aside, the % of top 16 was pretty similar to the ratio of actual GK players at the event. Hardly an endictment of the book, but haters are going to hate. I am not suprised that the Coteaz list wound up being the one to go the distance, as it brings the very best in Razorspam and hard combat ability. Draigowing is a gimmick, Coteaz is not.

Phazael wrote:GK whining aside, the % of top 16 was pretty similar to the ratio of actual GK players at the event. Hardly an endictment of the book, but haters are going to hate. I am not suprised that the Coteaz list wound up being the one to go the distance, as it brings the very best in Razorspam and hard combat ability. Draigowing is a gimmick, Coteaz is not.

The ratio of GK players was 22% of the field. The ratio of top 16 was 44% GK. Not similar at all.

@pretre

Haha, I love that picture! Funny how ironic it is now, when it was meant as a put down.

@thehod

You got it, it's the player that matters. The list is just a tool box.


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@darth

It was actually 50% in the finals. A guy dropped and a grey knight player took his place.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Phazael wrote:GK whining aside, the % of top 16 was pretty similar to the ratio of actual GK players at the event. Hardly an endictment of the book, but haters are going to hate. I am not suprised that the Coteaz list wound up being the one to go the distance, as it brings the very best in Razorspam and hard combat ability. Draigowing is a gimmick, Coteaz is not.

The ratio of GK players was 22% of the field. The ratio of top 16 was 44% GK. Not similar at all.

Last year orks were 12% of the field and 25% of the top 16. No out cry from folks saying orks are over powered even though the same ratio of attendee% vs top 16%.

I'm so going to go start a 'Orks are the most overpowered codex GW has put out in the last decade' thread.

I may have missed it, but can someone describe the archtype of the two ork players? I am just curious as an ork player what kinda lists seem to be holding up.

nkelsch wrote:I may have missed it, but can someone describe the archtype of the two ork players? I am just curious as an ork player what kinda lists seem to be holding up.

One of the ork players I believe is Dugg here on dakka. Battlewagon orks I think, but other then that no idea.

winterman wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

Phazael wrote:GK whining aside, the % of top 16 was pretty similar to the ratio of actual GK players at the event. Hardly an endictment of the book, but haters are going to hate. I am not suprised that the Coteaz list wound up being the one to go the distance, as it brings the very best in Razorspam and hard combat ability. Draigowing is a gimmick, Coteaz is not.

The ratio of GK players was 22% of the field. The ratio of top 16 was 44% GK. Not similar at all.

Last year orks were 12% of the field and 25% of the top 16. No out cry from folks saying orks are over powered even though the same ratio of attendee% vs top 16%.

Which is basically what I was (poorly) trying to say. I would be extremely interested in the % of Space Wolves and Guard entered compared against their presence in the top 16 the last couple years, as well. Still, its one event and the only thing that kind of suprises me is the lack of IG in the top 16, but that may have more to due with the scenarios and strict time limits. Plus playing an effecive guard army is a lot more mentally fatiguing than pushing a few paladins around for three days. Reece's brain had to be goo after three days of Footdar, though.

nkelsch wrote:I may have missed it, but can someone describe the archtype of the two ork players? I am just curious as an ork player what kinda lists seem to be holding up.

Grot Spam

From the Adepticon Website, here was how the final teams played:

Game 5 (Sunday Round 1)
Alexander Fennell (Necrons – Winner) vs. Tim Gorham (Grey Knights)
Tony Grippando (Grey Knights) vs. Reece Robbins (Eldar – Winner)
Mike Mutscheller (Space Wolves) vs. Nick Nanavati (Grey Knights – Winner)
Justin Cook (Grey Knights) vs. Brad Chester (Grey Knights – Winner)
Bill Kim (Chaos Daemons) vs. Dave Ankarlo (Grey Knights – Winner)
Jose Mendez (Dark Angels) vs. Tony Kopach (Space Wolves – Winner)
Joakim Engstrom (Grey Knights) vs. Paul Murphy (Grey Knights – Winner)
Doug Johnson (Orks – Winner) vs. Brett Perkins (Imperial Guard)

Game 6 Winner Brackets (Sunday Round 2)
Reece Robbins (Eldar) vs. Paul Murphy (Grey Knights – WINNER)
Alexander Fennell (Necrons – WINNER) vs. Doug Johnson (Orks)
Brad Chester (Grey Knights – WINNER) vs. Dave Ankarlo (Grey Knights)
Tony Kopach (Space Wolves – WINNER) vs. Nick Nanavati (Grey Knights)

Game 7 Winner Brackets – (Sunday Round 3)
Alexander Fennell (Necrons) vs. Brad Chester (Grey Knights) – LIVESTREAM
Tony Kopach (Space Wolves – WINNER) vs. Paul Murphy (Grey Knights)

Game 8 (Sunday Round 4)
Tony Kopach (Space Wolves) vs. Brad Chester (Grey Knights)

Final Results: Warhammer 40K Championships Warmaster – Brad Chester (Grey Knights)

I'd like to see the brackets for the entire event, army versus army. I know I'll never see it but it probably would give significant insight as to how well armies are doing.

Phazael wrote: the only thing that kind of suprises me is the lack of IG in the top 16, but that may have more to due with the scenarios and strict time limits. Plus playing an effecive guard army is a lot more mentally fatiguing than pushing a few paladins around for three days.

This first part is the absolute truth. Part of the allure of GK is their low model count for easy transport to out of state tourneys and they are also quick to play in strict timed events. I have no doubt that 'Horde' lists are handicapped simply by the time limts of a tournament. Remove the time limits (or make them quite large say 3 hours per game) and Horde Orks and Bugs become more viable. I know there is a subset of players who can move models and play fast, but not everyone can do this and it handicaps those players and those armies.

A pet peeve of mine for years has been the tourney game which runs out of time and instead of a random game length, both players know the game will now end on the next turn (say turn 5 or turn 6). Knowing this gives a huge advantage to the player going second. One in which was supposed to be neutered somewhat with the random game length, but can be manipulated in a strict timed tournament.

NecronLord3 wrote:I'd like to see the brackets for the entire event, army versus army. I know I'll never see it but it probably would give significant insight as to how well armies are doing.

With 240 armies, that's one hell of a bracket!

I've just played in a couple of small local tourneys, but I'll second the notion that a two hour or two and a half hour game just isn't enough time for some armies. One of the guys that I got into the game with is a guard player, and after our second tourney, he became really depressed about his future tournament chances because he hasn't been past turn three or four in any game played with those time restraints.

I'd much rather plan for a longer day at an event in order to ensure that all of the games played can be played out to completion.

kronk wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:I'd like to see the brackets for the entire event, army versus army. I know I'll never see it but it probably would give significant insight as to how well armies are doing.

With 240 armies, that's one hell of a bracket!

Exactly but I have a feeling it would be quite telling. I have a feeling the Eldar player did well because he probably face at least 2 GK armies in the qualifiers. The Eldar's runes are a great counter for the GK armies, but don't always excel against Tau or Necrons. Looking at setup like that can give an insight as to just how broken army combos can be.

From a pure probability standpoint (random sampling of the population) there is a pretty low chance to have 44% of a sample population of 16 to come from 22% of an overall population of 256. I used the 'brute force' way to get a quick idea of how low those odds are and after around 200 trials, it only happened 4 times.

I am sure someone can do the raw math on this if they want.

Even if there is a bias and the 'more competitive' players took GK, that is still significant in and of itself.

For last year's orks on 200 trials I got 11 times at least 4 Orks appeared in the finals with 12% of the field playing Orks (about twice as likely as this years GK).

the only thing that kind of suprises me is the lack of IG in the top 16, but that may have more to due with the scenarios and strict time limits.

It's certain that big armies are harder to get the turns in with than small ones.

Plus playing an effecive guard army is a lot more mentally fatiguing than pushing a few paladins around for three days.

Actually I find playing my 17 model paladin list a lot tougher mentally than my 57 model Dark Eldar one. It is much quicker to get one's turn in with a smaller force but the need to plan ahead seems to me to be much greater and errors far more likely to be fatal, Also, it's unclear as yet how many of the GK lists are Coteaz based, how many Crowe based and how many Draigo based, the three armies being rather different in make-up, playstyle and model count.

A pet peeve of mine for years has been the tourney game which runs out of time and instead of a random game length, both players know the game will now end on the next turn (say turn 5 or turn 6). Knowing this gives a huge advantage to the player going second. One in which was supposed to be neutered somewhat with the random game length, but can be manipulated in a strict timed tournament.

I agree with this completely.

Where can you view the lists? I didn't see them on Blood of Kittens?

calypso2ts wrote:From a pure probability standpoint (random sampling of the population) there is a pretty low chance to have 44% of a sample population of 16 to come from 22% of an overall population of 256. I used the 'brute force' way to get a quick idea of how low those odds are and after around 200 trials, it only happened 4 times.

I am sure someone can do the raw math on this if they want.

Even if there is a bias and the 'more competitive' players took GK, that is still significant in and of itself.

For last year's orks on 200 trials I got 11 times at least 4 Orks appeared in the finals with 12% of the field playing Orks (about twice as likely as this years GK).

I used a "brute force" method as well, but over a couple hundred thousand trials. Given 56 GK armies in a 256 player field, and assuming the outcome of each game is a coinflip, the likelihood of getting 7 or more GK armies in the round of 16 is about 27:1 or 3.7%. The likelihood of getting 8 or more is just under 100:1 or 1%.

Reecius wrote:8 out 16 were grey knights, actually. Greay knights are a crutch! :-)

I brought footdar beacuse they are my favorite army to play. I came to have fun this year, and to show the world footdar can and will win against any other books. Considering I tied tony and his wolves, and only lost to paul's grey knights on vp's and bad luck, I think the point's been made.

Regardless, it was super fun. It got me excitex about 40k again as I haven't been playing at all lately.

I do have a question though. How much money this cost you to have fun? The costs of travel, lodging, food, the tournament and extra curricular activity seems a bit on the high side to me for the average player.

Reason why I am asking is that I got a few friends that are trying to get me into the team tournament aspect of it for next year perhaps. Just need a ball park figure on it if you can go the cheap route and the disgusting expensive route.

So I am curious.

Good job Reece!! What army won best painted? Any pictures of it?

Thanks for the kind comments earlier from everyone. RL's been keeping me from Dakka for a few years, but I'm hoping to be online more frequently.

Competition, both Friday and Sunday, was stiff. Things seemed to run really smoothly - props to the AdeptiCon staff (technically, I'm also staff, but this year all my work happened pre-AdeptiCon once I qualified for the finals). With the exception of the dominance of Grey Knights (8 of 16) there seemed to be a pretty decent variety of armies there.

@blasto
Thanks, broseph!

@phazael
Yeah, I was so wiped after all thise games. Plus we drank a ton and got up at 4;45am for the finals.

@necronlord3
Nope, I (the eldar player) played no grey knights in the qualifiers. I wish I did. I played terrible match-ups. Wolves, venom spam/night shield dark eldar (worst match for me), leman russ ig (next worst match), and then tony kopach and his wolves round 4. It seriously was the hard route to the finals for me, not a single game that wasn't stupid hard. I played two grey knights in the finals.

@adam
It cost me about $600 to go this year, from california. Maybe $700. Not that bad at all. And I was playing for fun, but for me adpeticon has become a trip mire about seeing friends and having a laugh than anything else. I always want to win it all, I just know that luck is so much a part of it that gettng too hung up on that part of it makes ths trip less fun.

@centurian99
Good to see you at adepticon!! It'll be good to have you around the forums again.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Phazael wrote: the only thing that kind of suprises me is the lack of IG in the top 16, but that may have more to due with the scenarios and strict time limits. Plus playing an effecive guard army is a lot more mentally fatiguing than pushing a few paladins around for three days.

This first part is the absolute truth. Part of the allure of GK is their low model count for easy transport to out of state tourneys and they are also quick to play in strict timed events. I have no doubt that 'Horde' lists are handicapped simply by the time limts of a tournament. Remove the time limits (or make them quite large say 3 hours per game) and Horde Orks and Bugs become more viable. I know there is a subset of players who can move models and play fast, but not everyone can do this and it handicaps those players and those armies.

A pet peeve of mine for years has been the tourney game which runs out of time and instead of a random game length, both players know the game will now end on the next turn (say turn 5 or turn 6). Knowing this gives a huge advantage to the player going second. One in which was supposed to be neutered somewhat with the random game length, but can be manipulated in a strict timed tournament.

This is a really good point. As an ork player, I have been making my lists for events like NOVA and other tourneys based around 'how fast I can play it' vs 'how strong it is' and trying to find a middle ground.

Horde orks are nasty. Mad Dok/Snikrot with 180 boyz/grots, 9 Big Gunz and leftover lootas can get 230+ meat models on the board. Denying a ton of the anti tank in the current meta a valid target. It is terrible to transport, deploy and play and on a long weekend like Adepticon, even the best player is gonna be punchdrunk being a slave to those models.

Transports become a neccessity simply as the time saved in both transporting models and pushing pillboxes around the table for 8 games really becomes necessity. I really see the appeal of low model count builds for traveling and tourneys.

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Reecius wrote:

@necronlord3
Nope, I (the eldar player) played no grey knights in the qualifiers. I wish I did. I played terrible match-ups. Wolves, venom spam/night shield dark eldar (worst match for me), leman russ ig (next worst match), and then tony kopach and his wolves round 4. It seriously was the hard route to the finals for me, not a single game that wasn't stupid hard. I played two grey knights in the finals.

Glad to hear it, no offense was intended ifit came off that way. I have a friend struggling with his Eldar in the game right now and was excited to watch your game live, and was rooting for an Eldar/Necron final battle!

Part of the problem people may have with the Grey Knights or Grey Knights' players is the sameness of the builds and the newness of their armies. When I go to tournaments it is to play some different people and armies, so having half the armies be the same or very similar is unappealing to me. I also prefer armies that have character, not Independent Characters or Special Characters, but panache, a uniqueness which is something the move to everyone playing 3 or 4 armies and a dozen different builds flies in the face of. Some hope for 6th Edition to rebalance things, but I think ultimately it comes down to why people play. I prefer people who play with their army because it is their personal army, not the folks who hop to whatever is trendy and most effective as deemed by the Internets or certain tournaments.

I can see the appeal of portability as I've flown to one of the old GW Grand Tournaments, long before Battlefoam existed. It seems there used to be more variety of armies and builds at those events than you see in this particular event. Personally I think the team tournament produces the cooler eye candy, we'll have to see if GW re-introduces tournaments in North America after 6th Edition comes out.

Thanks for the event coverage.

NoArmorSave wrote:

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Man, this guy right here is so right!
That GK player would have totally lost to your fatecrusher list, HAHA.
Between the dreads, razors, chimeras and purifiers he could easily drop fateweaver in one turn. Its doubtful you will be in a position to charge turn 2, how do you plan on demeching him again? And remember that he has 6 troops choices and 10 vehicles. Good luck. The dreads will tie up bloodcrushers all game if they dont have a skulltaker. Since you can't conceivably take two of him, one squad will get tied up all game. You completely overestimate the ability of your list, or maybe you just spend to much time playing against children. Fatecrusher daemons have an inherent weakness to armies that can put out a lot of shots of quality at around 24". The two purifier squads firing at full effect alone would average about, 20 wounds on him. So conceivably in one turn the GK player could both kill fateweaver and begin to whittle down the crushers.

nkelsch wrote:
This is a really good point. As an ork player, I have been making my lists for events like NOVA and other tourneys based around 'how fast I can play it' vs 'how strong it is' and trying to find a middle ground.
.

I think something worth pointing out when discussing horde armies in tournaments is the time frame. I think that while making rounds longer might add horde armies to the meta game, it has a pair of negative effects. The first is that often times when playing a 'normal' army vs a horde army, a vast amount of game time is consumed by the horde player. Games are generally pretty boring for one player when his opponent is taking 2-3 times as long per turn as he is. The 2nd point is increasing round time from say, 2 hours to 3 will increase down time for the majority of players. Im someone who can finish a game in an hour with a 90 model nid army. If my opponent is playing of the same mentality, and we get done in 1.5 hours, that leaves another 1.5 hours to sit around and do nothing. Theres also the time consumption of setting aside 9 hours for game time, not including time between games and lunch, you can end up running 11 hours for a tournament, which is too much for too little playing.

Im not saying that horde shouldnt be viable for the meta, or restricted, but if you are going to play one of those armies you need to be able to play very fast.

@necronlord3
Yeah, eldar are not easy to play like they were last edition. It takes a lot of patience and practice.

Thanks for rooting for me, thag is cool and very appreciated!

@Reecius.

Thanks for the prompt reply. Decent information that I need to know if I go next year and play in a team tournament.

Reecius wrote:@necronlord3
Yeah, eldar are not easy to play like they were last edition. It takes a lot of patience and practice.

Thanks for rooting for me, thag is cool and very appreciated!

Would you be willing to post your list just for curiosities sake?

I have a friend struggling with his Eldar in the game right now and was excited to watch your game live, and was rooting for an Eldar/Necron final battle!

Both Reece and I were hoping for it, after our tied game in Vegas last year. Unfotunately he fell to Draigowing and I stumbled at the semi-final to Brad's knights.

On the plus side, I did avenge the Eldar by beating Draigo for the bronze

LValx wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Man, this guy right here is so right!
That GK player would have totally lost to your fatecrusher list, HAHA.
Between the dreads, razors, chimeras and purifiers he could easily drop fateweaver in one turn. Its doubtful you will be in a position to charge turn 2, how do you plan on demeching him again? And remember that he has 6 troops choices and 10 vehicles. Good luck. The dreads will tie up bloodcrushers all game if they dont have a skulltaker. Since you can't conceivably take two of him, one squad will get tied up all game. You completely overestimate the ability of your list, or maybe you just spend to much time playing against children. Fatecrusher daemons have an inherent weakness to armies that can put out a lot of shots of quality at around 24". The two purifier squads firing at full effect alone would average about, 20 wounds on him. So conceivably in one turn the GK player could both kill fateweaver and begin to whittle down the crushers.

Oh no, not a bunch of chimeras, razors, and purifiers! If we are playing kill points, or sieze ground style objectives., it is a done deal.

It is funny, that the Grey Knight fanboyz say; I will just shoot Fateweaver down and than it is over. Yeah right. In all of my games against Grey Knights, Fateweaver has died a handful of times.
Guess what; it doesn't matter. A good Fatecrusher player wants you to think Fateweaver is the armies lynchpin, you go right on and keep believing that. The list simply can not do enough
damage to stop the tide of Daemons before they are destroyed.

Typical battle with Grey Knights is this:
1 - We setup game, Grey Knight player gets smug look on his face because I tell him I am playing Daemons.
2 - I pull out my Daemons, and he starts to look a bit worried. I do admit, it is a very intimidating army to look at.
3 - The Grey Knight player is typically wondering what the hell happened by the end of turn 3.

The local Draigo Wing tournament player won't play me anymore, unless he can tailor his list. He wants to use at least 3 instances of Dark Excommunication. This "Chester" list is child's play
compared to the WAC Grey Knight players I have destroyed with Fatecrusher.

wow, your my hero!

Just for humor rolled out 4 games of drago verse crushers and drago was 3-1, but im sure im not understanding it right.

Everyone who has played a Fatecrusher army knows that it is a strong build, but somebody like NoArmorSave coming into a thread and running his mouth about how he could beat up on these guys who actually went to an event and showed well there is BS. Take your trolling elsewhere NoArmorSave. If you want to critique a list there are better ways to do it other than by just saying, my list would beat yours.

I'd be happy to put up my TAC Draigowing list against your Fatecrusher list on Vassal if you'd like. And I'm no where near as good of a player as those guys you were talking about.

Phazael wrote:

winterman wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

Phazael wrote:GK whining aside, the % of top 16 was pretty similar to the ratio of actual GK players at the event. Hardly an endictment of the book, but haters are going to hate. I am not suprised that the Coteaz list wound up being the one to go the distance, as it brings the very best in Razorspam and hard combat ability. Draigowing is a gimmick, Coteaz is not.

The ratio of GK players was 22% of the field. The ratio of top 16 was 44% GK. Not similar at all.

Last year orks were 12% of the field and 25% of the top 16. No out cry from folks saying orks are over powered even though the same ratio of attendee% vs top 16%.

Which is basically what I was (poorly) trying to say. I would be extremely interested in the % of Space Wolves and Guard entered compared against their presence in the top 16 the last couple years, as well. Still, its one event and the only thing that kind of suprises me is the lack of IG in the top 16, but that may have more to due with the scenarios and strict time limits. Plus playing an effecive guard army is a lot more mentally fatiguing than pushing a few paladins around for three days. Reece's brain had to be goo after three days of Footdar, though.

I have been saying it for a while now. Imperial Guard are falling to the wayside more and more. GK can give us hell, then Necrons can completely nix what we do best(shooting from range). I was not surprised to find myself standing alone again on day 2. Either way you wont see this king playing GK. I will stand by the 56th as long as they stand by me. Will try to get the bat reps started this week for those that follow.

Reecius wrote:@blasto
Thanks, broseph!

@phazael
Yeah, I was so wiped after all thise games. Plus we drank a ton and got up at 4;45am for the finals.

@necronlord3
Nope, I (the eldar player) played no grey knights in the qualifiers. I wish I did. I played terrible match-ups. Wolves, venom spam/night shield dark eldar (worst match for me), leman russ ig (next worst match), and then tony kopach and his wolves round 4. It seriously was the hard route to the finals for me, not a single game that wasn't stupid hard. I played two grey knights in the finals.

@adam
It cost me about $600 to go this year, from california. Maybe $700. Not that bad at all. And I was playing for fun, but for me adpeticon has become a trip mire about seeing friends and having a laugh than anything else. I always want to win it all, I just know that luck is so much a part of it that gettng too hung up on that part of it makes ths trip less fun.

@centurian99
Good to see you at adepticon!! It'll be good to have you around the forums again.

The trip cost me significantly less. Of course I split a big hotel/suite with 5 other people. Was 84 bucks for the weekend for the hotel. I drove there which ended up being around $200 roundtrip in gas. Besides that it was entree fee's and food. So not too bad if you know how to keep it on the cheap.

Reecius I wanted to face your army. We will have to get a game in sometime though I think my army would of been an ugly match-up for you it would still have been a good game. I might have to take my eldar to the next local event. Hopefully some of you guys can come out to the midwest massacre and try your luck. Also my camera captures digital time of photo's I take during my match's. My 5th round opponents game turn of 3 lasted just shy of an hour. No wonder I only saw 4 turns in the game.

helium42 wrote:Everyone who has played a Fatecrusher army knows that it is a strong build, but somebody like NoArmorSave coming into a thread and running his mouth about how he could beat up on these guys who actually went to an event and showed well there is BS. Take your trolling elsewhere NoArmorSave. If you want to critique a list there are better ways to do it other than by just saying, my list would beat yours.

I'd be happy to put up my TAC Draigowing list against your Fatecrusher list on Vassal if you'd like. And I'm no where near as good of a player as those guys you were talking about.

Edited - I will play nice.

Reecius wrote: and got up at 4;45am for the finals.

I have to admit, the game length is a major reason I don't go to tournaments, be it 40k or fantasy, I run orks/orcs (respectively) and in both cases, I usually have so much going on it's a miracle if my turns make it to 5-7. Sometimes this has helped, others it's hindered. Point being I don't like having game length determine the winner, it just leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

That being said, I might head on up for golden throne since 1500 point games should be able to be played in a reasonable amount of time.

stormboy97 wrote:wow, your my hero!

Just for humor rolled out 4 games of drago verse crushers and drago was 3-1, but im sure im not understanding it right.

Noarmorsave came on the paladins thread and said how he would crush my paladins.

I wish instead of being an internet tough guy he would go to a large tournament and prove it.

Reecius wrote:@necronlord3
Yeah, eldar are not easy to play like they were last edition. It takes a lot of patience and practice.

Thanks for rooting for me, thag is cool and very appreciated!

What exactly is your footdar list, and how did you beat Mech Guard and Mech DE?

Gk and chaos daemons: the players hate each other just as much as the fluff lol. I thought blood of kittens wa posting a troll when I saw a pink monolith but the army was PINK! Congrats man, pink is apparently a lucky color.

The Everliving wrote:

I have a friend struggling with his Eldar in the game right now and was excited to watch your game live, and was rooting for an Eldar/Necron final battle!

Both Reece and I were hoping for it, after our tied game in Vegas last year. Unfotunately he fell to Draigowing and I stumbled at the semi-final to Brad's knights.

On the plus side, I did avenge the Eldar by beating Draigo for the bronze

You did.. my dice did not want to play that game while yours were on fire!

It was a pleasant game and all in all not a terrible way to close out the tournament.

All of the games I played on day two were against top notch people I would like to be able to play all the time.

Hi

Regarding the Ork player who dropped - he chose to play in the fantasy doubles rather than abandon his partner on Sunday.

If another member of our crew (the Sons of Shatner, Sons of Scotty, and the Eh-Team) had made the top 16, we would have adjusted our pairings accordingly. Unfortunately, our next strongest candidate (from a list strength & play skill perspective) didn't manage to make it...

Cheers,
Nate

Nate - Gotta give him props for that. Had I been in a similar situation, I would like to think I would have done the same.

(Come to think of it, I was almost faced with that situation for the same reason - if both Sparks and I had qualified, one of us would have needed to drop in order to run the Gladiator).

Knowing how the internet can get, let me reiterate what Nate said above. Ricky's decision to not participate in the Warhammer 40K Championships Finals was perfectly legit and handled without incident. He was kind enough to let us know first thing on Saturday, so we had plenty of time to inform our 1st alternate, Tim Gorham.

Of course it should also be noted that Ricky was a repeat qualifier and played in the 2011 finals also. It would have been great to see him have a 2nd chance at total victory and put one more non-GK army on the list. That said, the way the seeding worked from Friday, his first game would have been against the only other Ork player, Doug Johnson. Johnson vs. Johnson. Ork vs. Ork. One would have been knocked out in the first finals game.

pretre wrote:I'm so going to go start a 'Orks are the most overpowered codex GW has put out in the last decade' thread.

You could try but it would just get locked by the mods, unlike the GK are OP thread which was threadnomancied back into exist but still didn't get a lock.


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NoArmorSave wrote:

LValx wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Man, this guy right here is so right!
That GK player would have totally lost to your fatecrusher list, HAHA.
Between the dreads, razors, chimeras and purifiers he could easily drop fateweaver in one turn. Its doubtful you will be in a position to charge turn 2, how do you plan on demeching him again? And remember that he has 6 troops choices and 10 vehicles. Good luck. The dreads will tie up bloodcrushers all game if they dont have a skulltaker. Since you can't conceivably take two of him, one squad will get tied up all game. You completely overestimate the ability of your list, or maybe you just spend to much time playing against children. Fatecrusher daemons have an inherent weakness to armies that can put out a lot of shots of quality at around 24". The two purifier squads firing at full effect alone would average about, 20 wounds on him. So conceivably in one turn the GK player could both kill fateweaver and begin to whittle down the crushers.

Oh no, not a bunch of chimeras, razors, and purifiers! If we are playing kill points, or sieze ground style objectives., it is a done deal.

It is funny, that the Grey Knight fanboyz say; I will just shoot Fateweaver down and than it is over. Yeah right. In all of my games against Grey Knights, Fateweaver has died a handful of times.
Guess what; it doesn't matter. A good Fatecrusher player wants you to think Fateweaver is the armies lynchpin, you go right on and keep believing that. The list simply can not do enough
damage to stop the tide of Daemons before they are destroyed.

Typical battle with Grey Knights is this:
1 - We setup game, Grey Knight player gets smug look on his face because I tell him I am playing Daemons.
2 - I pull out my Daemons, and he starts to look a bit worried. I do admit, it is a very intimidating army to look at.
3 - The Grey Knight player is typically wondering what the hell happened by the end of turn 3.

The local Draigo Wing tournament player won't play me anymore, unless he can tailor his list. He wants to use at least 3 instances of Dark Excommunication. This "Chester" list is child's play
compared to the WAC Grey Knight players I have destroyed with Fatecrusher.

Cool story bro.

WAC is WAAC by the way. How many of these WAAC GK players destroyed by your fatecrusher occurred at a major GT? I have lost to, beaten, and tied Fatecrusher with non-tailored GK, what does that mean? Nothing, just like your anecdotal evidence.

Nice to know about Ricky. Mad props for making it in to the Top 16 and even madder props for not abandoning his friends.

@Tomb King
Your army was the only one in the finals I wanted nothing to do with! Everyone else there I could beat on a level playing field, but IG is rough. I beat them in the prelims because I got first turn (only game all tournament I went first) and I know exactly what has to happen for me to win that game, and it happened. A little bad luck in that match-up and my army can easily get smoked.

@The Everling
We would have played too had Ricky not dropped (and that is really selfless of him, I don't think I would have done the same honestly. That is why I don't plan events for Sunday, I would rather have a free day Sunday if I don't make the finals). Eldar vs. Crons would have been an awesome game, and fits the fluff, too! We both new our game at the ToS would be a tie due to no terrain so it was a bit of an anti-climactic battle. This time, with no ties allowed, it would have been good fun!

And Blood Angel must have used up all his luck on me! Haha, that was so frustrating watching clutch roll after clutch roll go Paul's way, but them there's the breaks.

@Smitty/NecronLord3

Yeah, I'll post my list. It isn't what I wanted to bring, but what I had painted. We've been so busy at the shop, I didn't have time to finish my army but it's all good, I still did quite well with what I had.

Eldrad
Avatar
Dires x 10
Dires x 10
Dires x 10
Guardians x 10, Shuriken Cannon
Jet Bikes x 3

Harlies x 10, Kisses, Shadowseer
Fire Dragons x 5, Exarch, Pike, Crack Shot
Fire Dragons x 5, Exarch, Pike Crack Shot

Wraithlord, Lance, EML
Wriathlord, Lance, EML
War Walkers x 3, Scatter Laser x 6

Platuan4th wrote:

Nice to know about Ricky. Mad props for making it in to the Top 16 and even madder props for not abandoning his friends.

Ricky is a great person. He came in 3rd last year. He only lost was to Tony. He took out a lot of good players this year to make it to the top 16.

and the interesting thing about Ricky is, the year before he took out Brad Chester the guy that won it this year.

Ricky is not only a good player, but a nice guy (which should go without saying since he is Canadian).

To sum up our game, he started out by making the first 8 obscured rolls for his Kans/Battlewagon.

So cut to turn 5 he had a lot of them still left hanging around the objectives so I had 2 choices:

#1. I could run on to the objectives and win by kill points, but then I would get counter assaulted and that would mean that I would struggle to win turns 6 and 7.

Or

#2. Shot him on turn #5, cripple his troops and be in great shape to win turn #6 and #7.

One choice I had a 33% chance of winning and the other I had a 66% chance.

I took option #2 and he rolled a ‘2’ to end the game and that quickly I was out of the running.

Hi Blackmoor

LOL - Since Ricky doesn't post here (or anywhere) - his exact quote to me from your game afterword was "It was a tight game... but it needed to end. I had it, but I wouldn't have kept it."

Cheers,
Nate

Ricky and Nate are awesome guys, met them last year at daboyz team tourney and had a blast tieing out nate with his orks. Really nice guys, glad to see Ricky make it that far.

Matthias wrote:Knowing how the internet can get, let me reiterate what Nate said above. Ricky's decision to not participate in the Warhammer 40K Championships Finals was perfectly legit and handled without incident. He was kind enough to let us know first thing on Saturday, so we had plenty of time to inform our 1st alternate, Tim Gorham.

Of course it should also be noted that Ricky was a repeat qualifier and played in the 2011 finals also. It would have been great to see him have a 2nd chance at total victory and put one more non-GK army on the list. That said, the way the seeding worked from Friday, his first game would have been against the only other Ork player, Doug Johnson. Johnson vs. Johnson. Ork vs. Ork. One would have been knocked out in the first finals game.

Nice! Also, the fantasy team tournament armies were simply amazing... so many armies seemingly made just for the event, with lots of conversions between armies (ogres painted green with orc heads, crazy mix of khorne daemons into another army... really, really cool!).

So, a good choice imo and of course so his teammate could play, too.

Tomb King wrote:
My 5th round opponents game turn of 3 lasted just shy of an hour. No wonder I only saw 4 turns in the game.

Dude, if it was an ork player, I watched him playing another game for a while and one of his turns took like an hour what with all the moving, getting out, Waaaghing (maybe) and then assault. I wondered why the other guy didn't say anything... I wonder if it even mattered. It was amazing it took that long, cause the ork player looked like he was busily doing something the entire time. Just a lot of stuff to manage, I guess.

Yeah, no matter what tricks are used (like movement trays) or how quick you can roll dice, its a simple fact that horde armies take a lot more time to play.

There are people that claim to be able to finish a horde army tourney game with time to spare, but while that may be true for some players all of the time, and all players some of the time, it is never true for all horde players all the time. It is a proven fact that many horde games do not end past turn 4, WITH the player being experienced and keeping busy.

If the horde player was playing a non-horde list, with less to move and less dice to roll, while keeping the same level of firepower and toughness with fewer models, then it can only be an advantage to the player to have that extra time to plan moves.

Marshal Severarse wrote:

Tomb King wrote:
My 5th round opponents game turn of 3 lasted just shy of an hour. No wonder I only saw 4 turns in the game.

Dude, if it was an ork player, I watched him playing another game for a while and one of his turns took like an hour what with all the moving, getting out, Waaaghing (maybe) and then assault. I wondered why the other guy didn't say anything... I wonder if it even mattered. It was amazing it took that long, cause the ork player looked like he was busily doing something the entire time. Just a lot of stuff to manage, I guess.

Ya, I think at that time he was out of contention and the games were less strict. I warned the judges following my match to ensure that he didnt do it to the next guy and the judge affirmed that it wouldnt happen again. I said before the day I wanna lose first or make it all the way. I was just happy to make the top 16 on my first Adepticon appearance.

DevianID wrote:Yeah, no matter what tricks are used (like movement trays) or how quick you can roll dice, its a simple fact that horde armies take a lot more time to play.

There are people that claim to be able to finish a horde army tourney game with time to spare, but while that may be true for some players all of the time, and all players some of the time, it is never true for all horde players all the time. It is a proven fact that many horde games do not end past turn 4, WITH the player being experienced and keeping busy.

If the horde player was playing a non-horde list, with less to move and less dice to roll, while keeping the same level of firepower and toughness with fewer models, then it can only be an advantage to the player to have that extra time to plan moves.

It was an ork battle wagon list and he reserved everything and only got 2 units on turn 2 and most of his rides on turn 3. I can understand 4 turns of movement but he only had 2 really. I only got to fire my manticore one time the entire game and that was the top of turn 4. He just moved each individual model one a time and did so with no haste. I didnt even realize the play until it was too late.

How do necrons shut down IG shooting?

Noisy_Marine wrote:How do necrons shut down IG shooting?

Solar Pulse

It's even worse for Eldar! Despite being one of the oldest races in the galaxy, they still haven't figured out how to make a flashlight!

Here you go guys posted the most of the Top 16 lists on the blog check it out...

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/24/tournament-circuit-adepticon-championship-results-and-lists/

Noisy_Marine wrote:How do necrons shut down IG shooting?

Centurian99 wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:How do necrons shut down IG shooting?

Solar Pulse

Solar pulse or Immotehp... pick ur poison!

Reecius wrote:It's even worse for Eldar! Despite being one of the oldest races in the galaxy, they still haven't figured out how to make a flashlight!

Or a basic rifle that out ranges a pistol.

Ha ha ha, that, too!

Reecius wrote:Yeah, I'll post my list. It isn't what I wanted to bring, but what I had painted. We've been so busy at the shop, I didn't have time to finish my army but it's all good, I still did quite well with what I had.

Eldrad
Avatar
Dires x 10
Dires x 10
Dires x 10
Guardians x 10, Shuriken Cannon
Jet Bikes x 3

Harlies x 10, Kisses, Shadowseer
Fire Dragons x 5, Exarch, Pike, Crack Shot
Fire Dragons x 5, Exarch, Pike Crack Shot

Wraithlord, Lance, EML
Wriathlord, Lance, EML
War Walkers x 3, Scatter Laser x 6

So what would you have brought if you had a chance? It is an interesting list and I'm tempted to play around with it.

I was gong to drop a Wraithlord for 3 more War Walkers with Scatter lasers, and take another unit of Harlies. Probably drop some or all of the Dires for more Guardians with Scatter Lasers to add in more long range fire. I didn't have time to play test it, unfortunately, as we were so busy getting ready for the event. Dires are so damn good at close range though, and the differences between Guardians and them are small but can be decisive. For example, my Dires will often charge and do surprisingly well in combat against weakened units.

I will be experimenting with the new build, but I think it's power output will be higher.

Interesting. Let us know how it goes.

Reecius wrote:I was gong to drop a Wraithlord for 3 more War Walkers with Scatter lasers, and take another unit of Harlies. Probably drop some or all of the Dires for more Guardians with Scatter Lasers to add in more long range fire. I didn't have time to play test it, unfortunately, as we were so busy getting ready for the event. Dires are so damn good at close range though, and the differences between Guardians and them are small but can be decisive. For example, my Dires will often charge and do surprisingly well in combat against weakened units.

I will be experimenting with the new build, but I think it's power output will be higher.

Basically a dakka list through and through. I am playing with a 3 wraithlord list for a coming tournament with Lance/ML each. Just working out ways they can stay alive atm...

@pretre
Will do.

@Tomb King
Yeah, I started with 3 WL with BL/EML, too. I have slowly been moving to War Walkers more and more. I think you need at least one WL though as they have so many other uses such as tar pitting units, and scaring away vehicles.

@reecius - It's interesting to see how well you are doing with so little long range anti-tank. I quit playing my Eldar after a year of 5th because it was so hard to crack the transports and let the DAs do their thing. I did have two big mobs of Fire Dragons I would fortune against the then monster list which was Nob Bikers and then guide them both and doom the biker squads. I would sacrifice a full squad of jetbikes to keep them off of me. Maybe if Nob Bikers hadn't been everywhere I wouldn't have finally switched to marines. It really seems like Eldar are so good vs infantry but even their Str 8 guns do little against tanks in such small numbers. Do you rely on your ability to kill tanks in hth?

Did anyone see any necron players running C tan shards with grand illusion, and writhing worldscape?


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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/04/40k-mighty-mighty-footdar-at-adepticon.html

Great article by the foot eldar player...if this past weekend has shown me anything its that any army can be good in the hands of a skilled general! Especially when the internet makes people super over confident lol

Great post, Reecius!

For the record I have no problem with the interwebz thinking that I just march across the field and bash people BUT - the plan was to come in from 'under' eldrad with 4 units in your deployment zone and control/contest the objective.

If I remember right I botched the difficult ground roll to get in to the terrain forcing me to need that 6 to assault. So one bad roll got covered up by the clutch roll that swung the game.

I honestly just tried to seize because I could and it would have been funny if I did.. It didn't really give me any tactical advantage, ha!

I really did get greedy with the DK trying to go for the kill on Eldrad but I knew if he went down I would have completely broken your spirit. I also forgot eldrad had a power weapon I am going to force myself to get at least 5 hours of sleep next adepticon.

Reece - we need to try and pull it to where it is us in the finals.

The complete posting off all of the pictures I took form friday-sunday are posted on are local gaming group website. http://frostreaver.net/forums/showthread.php?9218-Adepticon-Pictures. While your there look up the midwest massacre info and come challenge the gamers here in the midwest.

The pictures feature a lot of the top Team tournament displays along with a good number of the 40k champs armies on display.

@Blood Angel

Hey, nothing but respect on my side of the table. You played well and brought a tough list. I tease that the army walks forward and rolls dice, but you and I both know that ins't all there is to it. Without skill, you wouldn't have gotten as far as you did.

And the DK did the only thing it really could do. You came in on that flank and then tried to win the game, well done! I love bold moves and if it had worked, like you said, I would have been in a terrible position.

Also, someone mentioned to me that the Acolytes couldn't outflank due to grand strategy. I honestly don't care at this point at all, and doubt it would have made that much difference but it may be something you want to look into further as it may not be allowed.

The seize wasn't that big of a deal, I agree. It was just annoying that you did it twice to me! hahaha

Well played, and yes, hopefully at WargamesCon we'll see one another in the finals!


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@Shinkaze and Pretre

Glad you liked the article!

@Shinkaze

Yeah, fair question. A lot of people wonder the same thing. I play against nearly all mechanized armies and I find that it never poses a problem. Between the Walkers, Dragons, Wraithlords, Avatar and Guaridans, I pop them open when needed and then flak down the troops.

I can't stress enough how important the Exarch with pike and crack shot is in the fire dragons squad. He usually kills more than the rest of the squad combined.

Mech really doesn't bother me though, and as you said, once they get close, they get shredded in HtH quite easily. If WL touches a vheicle it's a pentrating hit, and the Avatar and Harlies are damn near the same.

Reecius wrote:@Blood Angel

Hey, nothing but respect on my side of the table. You played well and brought a tough list. I tease that the army walks forward and rolls dice, but you and I both know that ins't all there is to it. Without skill, you wouldn't have gotten as far as you did.

And the DK did the only thing it really could do. You came in on that flank and then tried to win the game, well done! I love bold moves and if it had worked, like you said, I would have been in a terrible position.

Also, someone mentioned to me that the Acolytes couldn't outflank due to grand strategy. I honestly don't care at this point at all, and doubt it would have made that much difference but it may be something you want to look into further as it may not be allowed.

The seize wasn't that big of a deal, I agree. It was just annoying that you did it twice to me! hahaha

Well played, and yes, hopefully at WargamesCon we'll see one another in the finals!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Shinkaze and Pretre

Glad you liked the article!

@Shinkaze

Yeah, fair question. A lot of people wonder the same thing. I play against nearly all mechanized armies and I find that it never poses a problem. Between the Walkers, Dragons, Wraithlords, Avatar and Guaridans, I pop them open when needed and then flak down the troops.

I can't stress enough how important the Exarch with pike and crack shot is in the fire dragons squad. He usually kills more than the rest of the squad combined.

Mech really doesn't bother me though, and as you said, once they get close, they get shredded in HtH quite easily. If WL touches a vheicle it's a pentrating hit, and the Avatar and Harlies are damn near the same.

When is wargamescon and is it already sold out?? My IG are itching for a tournament championship this year and I keep missing the prize.

Reecius wrote:
Also, someone mentioned to me that the Acolytes couldn't outflank due to grand strategy. I honestly don't care at this point at all, and doubt it would have made that much difference but it may be something you want to look into further as it may not be allowed.

Grand strategy specifically says inquisitorial warbands cannot receive any of the bonuses.

hyv3mynd wrote:

Reecius wrote:
Also, someone mentioned to me that the Acolytes couldn't outflank due to grand strategy. I honestly don't care at this point at all, and doubt it would have made that much difference but it may be something you want to look into further as it may not be allowed.

Grand strategy specifically says inquisitorial warbands cannot receive any of the bonuses.

As much as I hate to help out GK here. It may have an exclusion for inquisitorial warbands but does that exclusion include vehicles? If not then they can give the vehicle outflank and it confers it to the squad.

Tomb King wrote:

hyv3mynd wrote:

Reecius wrote:
Also, someone mentioned to me that the Acolytes couldn't outflank due to grand strategy. I honestly don't care at this point at all, and doubt it would have made that much difference but it may be something you want to look into further as it may not be allowed.

Grand strategy specifically says inquisitorial warbands cannot receive any of the bonuses.

As much as I hate to help out GK here. It may have an exclusion for inquisitorial warbands but does that exclusion include vehicles? If not then they can give the vehicle outflank and it confers it to the squad.

The only vehicles that can take it are walkers.

@NoArmorSave

Where are you located or at least where do you play so we can arrange a game?

Blackmoor wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

hyv3mynd wrote:

Reecius wrote:
Also, someone mentioned to me that the Acolytes couldn't outflank due to grand strategy. I honestly don't care at this point at all, and doubt it would have made that much difference but it may be something you want to look into further as it may not be allowed.

Grand strategy specifically says inquisitorial warbands cannot receive any of the bonuses.

As much as I hate to help out GK here. It may have an exclusion for inquisitorial warbands but does that exclusion include vehicles? If not then they can give the vehicle outflank and it confers it to the squad.

The only vehicles that can take it are walkers.

I think it was pointed out players made some mistakes due to lack of sleep over three to four days of wargaming.

Yeah... I've made my share of tactical errors and forgotten to move/shoot/assault models after a long GT.

Making an illegal play that was never legal as defined in the codex due to lack of sleep is pretty tragic.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to throw blood angel under the bus at all, and im retrospect I should have pm'd him. It wasn't a big deal at all, and no one, judges included, caught it. Mistakes are made, that is the nature of the game.

@unholy-martyr
Please let us know what it's like to play this god of 40k! Haha, i'm sure we'll all be completely amazed at what you have to share about the experience ;-)

No worries, dude. That was so inconsequential it isn't even funny.

I only chose the outflank option for the DK I would have done the same thing with the razors had they been on the table anyway.

I think someone needs to go look up the meaning of the word 'tragic' ha!

@Reecius

Will do. I'll make sure to bring Draigowing so as to fully satisfy all the requirements.