Just went into my local store to order a Tau Commander and Commander Farsight.

Got "advised" to wait a couple of months instead of buying them today.

Now that to me suggests one of two things...

A) New sculpts for the new Codex.

B) They are going Finecast with them.

I can't see a reason why someone would advise anyone not to buy something, unless they knew a product was getting updated.

If this is for a redshirt i wouldn't think to much of it, there not high enough up the chain to know anything.

Just my two cents
-ironhandstraken

Interesting - my local store advised against buying a 5th ed 40k rule book seemingly for an impending 6th ed release. Interesting that GW are actually doing the right thing and forgoing sales in favour of happy customers.

Putting those 2 points together then, I wonder if Tau are somehow linked to the 6th ed release... Just thikning out loud here people - don't go getting excited or narcy!

Puscifer wrote:

I can't see a reason why someone would advise anyone not to buy something, unless they knew a product was getting updated.

That is basically true.

But if your "local store" didn't happen to be Warhammer World in Nottingham UK or something along those lines, I'd be surprised if anyone working there would know more about upcoming releases than can be gleaned from the internet by any dedicated fan.

Given how tight rumours have been recently, it would not be impossible to see Tau this year, perhaps as a Xenos race alongside the most likely Dark Angels (see White Dwarf, etc..). But the majority of rumours rather point to Chaos or perhaps Eldar (which doesn't mean there's anything more substantial to those either).

C) He wanted to do you a favour based on bogus rumours he read online

Zweischneid wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

I can't see a reason why someone would advise anyone not to buy something, unless they knew a product was getting updated.

That is basically true.

But if your "local store" didn't happen to be Warhammer World in Nottingham UK or something along those lines, I'd be surprised if anyone working there would know more about upcoming releases than can be gleaned from the internet by any dedicated fan.

This, if their shirt is red, or the equivalent, their information can be found with Google and a couple minutes.

This was a "Blue shirt", but yeah I see where you are coming from, but this Blue shirt is usually one that is all sell sell sell and never ever says wait.

That is what got me thinking that they are telling the truth as it was competely against their usual character.

Did he advise you to buy anything else instead?

Medium of Death wrote:Did he advise you to buy anything else instead?

All they said about was the Tau Commander, Farsight and the XV88.

They changed the subject really quickly when I asked about other models in the range and the codex.

I'll take this with a grain of salt

Hmmm, interesting.

My local GW manager did the same when the new paints were coming out, though. Advised people that they might be better suited to wait for a week, though couldn't say why of course so it was all "wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more, say no more".

Mind you, this same guy has an unwritten thing where if you buy an army book and then a new book comes out for that army really quickly (I think it's up to a month after) then he'll trade you the new one for the old one, as long as it's in nice condition. I have a feeling that that isn't standard operating procedure for GW either.

Still, if it is them coming out in Finecast then I'm glad I bought Farsight yesterday in metal. I'd rather not have to pay more.

Personally, I cannot see them coming out in Finecast.

Are there any finecast/plastic hybrid kits?

To my knowledge there are none.

Commander, Farsight and XV-88? I can easily see finecast replacement for a while until a likely Tau release next year with a new plastic battlesuit box which includes those parts.

Interesting. Most retailers cannot purchase models or codices for armies when the update is pending. Before necrons came out all the stock dried up for warriors and destroyers - perhaps there is soon to be a tau embargo that might hint at a codex release within 3-6 months?

All speculation -- My big 'white whale' is 6th edition at the moment. I've never wanted to spend $75 on a hardcover book more in my life. <---pathetic, right?

Puscifer wrote:Personally, I cannot see them coming out in Finecast.

Are there any finecast/plastic hybrid kits?

To my knowledge there are none.

Good point. Which means (if this isn't just a GW employee believing a random rumour he heard about on the internet) that we might be seeing plastic broadsides and commanders. I don't understand why they didn't do broadsides and commanders in plastic to begin with. They'd sell enough of them to make it worthwhile, what with broadsides being almost a must take and the commander set being the only way to get the special issue weapons.

As for Farsight, do they sell enough of him for them to think changing him into plastic is a worthwhile investment? If not then he might become the first resin/plastic hybrid kit from GW.

lord_blackfang wrote:C) He wanted to do you a favour based on bogus rumours he read online

I agree with this post.

Redshirt's don't know squat about upcoming releases.

MajorWesJanson wrote:Commander, Farsight and XV-88? I can easily see finecast replacement for a while until a likely Tau release next year with a new plastic battlesuit box which includes those parts.

Are you sure? I can't remember any hybrid kits getting finecasted so far (even though the rumours point towards that for necron destroyer variants, but those are just rumours...)

The Blueshirt sold you a Stomper instead didnt he OP?

Just go for it! even if they are updated you will still have models. PS I think that chaos legions is next.

Tau seem to be first Codex in 2013, written by Robin Cruddace, with all miniatures ready for quite a while.

Puscifer wrote:Personally, I cannot see them coming out in Finecast.

Are there any finecast/plastic hybrid kits?

To my knowledge there are none.

Not that I find the rumour any more credible than you, given its source, but I really don't see why finecast/plastic hybrid kits are inherently implausible. Has anything which was a metal/plastic hybrid kit actually been replaced with either all-finecast or all plastic kits? (Not a rhetorical question, I actually can't think of anything, but I'm aware that I don't pay close attention to anything other than the few armies I play.)

Kroothawk wrote:Tau seem to be first Codex in 2013, written by Robin Cruddace

You poor, poor dears. I feel quite bad for the Tau players at this news, if true.

with all miniatures ready for quite a while.

This is some good news at least, again if true.

tetrisphreak wrote:Interesting. Most retailers cannot purchase models or codices for armies when the update is pending. Before necrons came out all the stock dried up for warriors and destroyers - perhaps there is soon to be a tau embargo that might hint at a codex release within 3-6 months?

All speculation -- My big 'white whale' is 6th edition at the moment. I've never wanted to spend $75 on a hardcover book more in my life. <---pathetic, right?

I'm going to check with my FLGS today and see what they say about ordering Tau stuff.

When it came to DE and Necrons, he couldn't order stuff roughly 3-4 months prior the new release.

Maybe the same thing is going to happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh... and what's wrong with Cruddace writing the Tau 'Dex?

Remember, Crudance wrote Guard too... and it doesn't suck.

He just didn't seem to understand how to point monsterous creatures.

On the other hand we may get a tau flyer with 3 railguns and armor 12 with standard Targeting Array, Decoy Launcher, Disruption Pod, Drone Controlled that can carry 12 fire warriors or a squad of crisis suits for 125 pts as a Fast Attack choice.

Prodigalson wrote:Remember, Crudance wrote Guard too... and it doesn't suck.
He just didn't seem to understand how to point monstrous creatures.

On the other hand we may get a tau flyer with 3 railguns and armor 12 with standard Targeting Array, Decoy Launcher, Disruption Pod, Drone Controlled that can carry 12 fire warriors or a squad of crisis suits for 125 pts as a Fast Attack choice.

Sucking is relative.

Case in point:
The Vendetta.
Why would anyone ever take a Valkyrie over a Vendetta?
Having too many "must have" units is not a good thing for the overall quality of a book. It's counterproductive and ends up with pigeonholing people into cookiecutter builds, with no recourse for effective lists that deviate too far from the norm.


I have to wonder what we'll see, modelwise. I know there are pictures floating around of the test sculpts for plastic Pathfinders and a different kind of Crisis Suit.

I knew he wrote the IG 'dex and I really enjoyed that one. It was a good read.

I didn't realise he wrote the 'Nid one. I wasn't happy with that one. They totally screwed over the Nid players with that pile of Gak.

I hope this will be a return to form.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and in regards to the models...

The only thing I can see being kept is...

The Kroot Carnivores.

The Devilfish/Hammerhead/Sky Ray.

The Piranha.

The XV25.

These kits are still very much up-to-date. Everything else is very subpar by todays standards. The suits in particular need to be updated.

Puscifer wrote:I knew he wrote the IG 'dex and I really enjoyed that one. It was a good read.

I didn't realise he wrote the 'Nid one. I wasn't happy with that one. They totally screwed over the Nid players with that pile of Gak.

I hope this will be a return to form.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and in regards to the models...

The only thing I can see being kept is...

The Kroot Carnivores.

The Devilfish/Hammerhead/Sky Ray.

The Piranha.

The XV25.

These kits are still very much up-to-date. Everything else is very subpar by todays standards. The suits in particular need to be updated.

I don't see the firewarriors going anywhere. While I agree they could be better, but so could the Necron warrior or over in fantasy the TK skeleton warriors and they didn't bother to replace those.

Reportedly, the priority on the part of GW right now is to convert as much of the lines to plastic as possible.

So work from that line of thinking, and see what you can come up with.

Kanluwen wrote:Reportedly, the priority on the part of GW right now is to convert as much of the lines to plastic as possible.

.............

Yeah, I wonder why that is.

notprop wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Reportedly, the priority on the part of GW right now is to convert as much of the lines to plastic as possible.

Yeah, I wonder why that is.

Because the huge line of plastic kits they have available is what sets them apart from other offerings in the miniature wargaming field.

That it's also an excuse to package them and raise the price such as in the case of Bloodcrushers?

n0t_u wrote:That it's also an excuse to package them and raise the price such as in the case of Bloodcrushers?

Bloodcrushers were about $25-$30 (I can't recall exact prices on them off the top of my head, but the metal Herald of Khorne is still available for $29.75) each in metal.
The box of 3 is $54.50.

I don't really see a price raise there.

The only reason I'd give this rumor any sort of validity is because it's hard to go into a GW store and have them tell you NOT to buy something.

Oh more tau rumers. Over in the dark angles thread they have pulled up another scedule so I really don't know when stuffs comming, I places tau in november but sadly, I don't have any insight on the sourse.

Kanluwen wrote:

notprop wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Reportedly, the priority on the part of GW right now is to convert as much of the lines to plastic as possible.

Yeah, I wonder why that is.

Because the huge line of plastic kits they have available is what sets them apart from other offerings in the miniature wargaming field.

You mean other than with the prices?

Regarding the OP, it might be something as simple as the models being unavailable to order on the weekly stock order. That could be for any number of reasons (although admittedly a switch to FC, or a new release, are two).

Just me or did the Broadside drop in price? Could have sworn it was more expensive than $35 when I bought my Tau.

Tun_Tau wrote:Just me or did the Broadside drop in price? Could have sworn it was more expensive than $35 when I bought my Tau.

Don't think so. I just checked on my end, $35 USD and the crisis suits are the same as they have been.

Now I need to try to collect 4 more krootox before they go finecrap.

juraigamer wrote:

Tun_Tau wrote:Just me or did the Broadside drop in price? Could have sworn it was more expensive than $35 when I bought my Tau.

Don't think so. I just checked on my end, $35 USD and the crisis suits are the same as they have been.

Now I need to try to collect 4 more krootox before they go finecrap.

hahahaha, funny! [/sarcasm]

If Krootox and Hounds stay, I see them being packaged into multiples in a plastic kit. And even if they are Finecast, then I'll welcome Hounds with limbs that don't fall off.

One of the big Tyranid models is mixed media -- plastic and Finecast.

Crisis suits used to be £10 and Broadsides were £12 if I remember correctly. That was 6-7 years ago, though.

Kilkrazy wrote:One of the big Tyranid models is mixed media -- plastic and Finecast.

Which one?

I find this slightly hard to believe, simply because we just had the Swarmlord released in full plastic.

Kilkrazy wrote:One of the big Tyranid models is mixed media -- plastic and Finecast.

Crisis suits used to be £10 and Broadsides were £12 if I remember correctly. That was 6-7 years ago, though.

I assume you mean the Hive Tyrant, which is all plastic now.

I saw it at the local GW but I don't remember what it was. Something with wings. I assumed it was a mixed media kit. Thinking about it, it could have been a model assembled using parts from other kits.

Of course that doesn't stop GW from changing the Crisis Suit add on parts to Finecast and making mixed media kits even if they haven't so far.

Kilkrazy wrote:I saw it at the local GW but I don't remember what it was. Something with wings. I assumed it was a mixed media kit. Thinking about it, it could have been a model assembled using parts from other kits.

Of course that doesn't stop GW from changing the Crisis Suit add on parts to Finecast and making mixed media kits even if they haven't so far.

You probably saw the winged Hive Tyrant. It's an option in the new kit. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1460211a

Was it that?

If so, that's actually the Hive Tyrant plastic box, Kilkrazy.
The Swarmlord/Hive Tyrant box can build a Flyrant too.

I'd be very, very surprised if we do not see the Crisis Suits redone and reboxed as a 3 box set though.

Dangit, ninja'd by SRM.

Kanluwen wrote:Sucking is relative.

Case in point:
The Vendetta.

Because they're not facing a razorspam marine list? If you're facing anything other than marines, a twin rocket pod valk with a multilaser is a whole lotta 12" moving transporting firepower against anything but marines. I wouldn't recommend mixing the two builds (anti-armor lascannon load versus anti-horde) on the same vehicle but they're good at what they do.

I had the same thing in GW Watford; asked a friend to pick up a copy of DaemonHunters codex for me whilst shopping. They were told it wasn't in stock as a new codex was coming, and this was around a year before it dropped.

And metal ore prices are through the roof

well, their old pics but there's this thread here which might give you some indication :3

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/222204.page

looking foward to the new tau stuff whatever GW decide to do with it

Puscifer wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:Did he advise you to buy anything else instead?

All they said about was the Tau Commander, Farsight and the XV88.

They changed the subject really quickly when I asked about other models in the range and the codex.

Hmmm, if he'd mentioned the XV-8 (edited) as well I would almost say they're releasing a re-designed crisis suit, perhaps as a separate release, since they all share the same plastic frame.

Edit: As a side note...if they ever do redesign the crisis suit I wonder if they'll adopt the FW models since R'myr and all the XV-8 variants rely on the same plastic sprue. My hope would be that they use R'myr (minus his special gear) as the base model for all XV-8s.

DPBellathrom wrote:well, their old pics but there's this thread here which might give you some indication :3

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/222204.page

looking foward to the new tau stuff whatever GW decide to do with it

If I recall those were just trainee test sculpts they were showing off. If so, that's pretty cool since they're by and large very good. Some Tallarn IG were spotted a year or two ago, same story. It's a shame since those figures would sell well, even as direct-only models.

A couple of months ago I was told by a GW staff member that Tau were 'guaranteed' to have a new codex in March. Wait, it's April already...

ColdSadHungry wrote:A couple of months ago I was told by a GW staff member that Tau were 'guaranteed' to have a new codex in March. Wait, it's April already...

Well, did he specify a year?

this all reminds me of the 12 year wait for dark eldar.... every year around march - april "dont worry DE should update soon...this year is 'year of the eldar!" .... then nothing. THEN we got the 'new' eldar book and everyone thought DE would just 'lump in' with it. - nope...

untill i see a picture or actual hard proof, im not holding anything close to my breath waiting for a tau release. - or any release for that matter. GW has a bad habit of just doing what they want with no semblance of indication of plan or anything. either that or they have WSOP winning poker faces.

If Tau get the Matt Ward treatment, misspods will be str 8 AP 4 Heavy 6 and ignore cover...

Stealth suits will be immune to ranged weapons

Kroot will ignore armor

and Vespids will be 2 pts each...

But yea... lets hope he doesn't touch the book...

I'd be very excited if they did redo tau however : )

Brother SRM wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:well, their old pics but there's this thread here which might give you some indication :3

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/222204.page

looking foward to the new tau stuff whatever GW decide to do with it

If I recall those were just trainee test sculpts they were showing off. If so, that's pretty cool since they're by and large very good. Some Tallarn IG were spotted a year or two ago, same story. It's a shame since those figures would sell well, even as direct-only models.

not sure but if the rumor of all the tau stuff being ready and waiting is true but if so then those could be some of the new minis. if not then hopefully they'll be using thse as a base for the new models

I'm not sure if I'm missing something but I went FAQ hunting the other day and noticed that everything was updated in January this year bar the Black Templars and the Tau. I'm not sure this means anything but I thought I'd mention it...

frgsinwntr wrote:If Tau get the Matt Ward treatment,

Could we please not do this? Ever?

Brother SRM wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:If Tau get the Matt Ward treatment,

Could we please not do this? Ever?

Functioning game rules with a chance to at least be a mid tier army?

What's not to love?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:If Tau get the Matt Ward treatment,

Could we please not do this? Ever?

Functioning game rules with a chance to at least be a mid tier army?

What's not to love?

The fluff that all the Tau have accepted Roboute Guilliman as their spiritual liege and that Farsight/Shadowsun/Space Pope/Aun'shi/<Inset New Special Character Name Here> is running around the Eye of Terror single handedly beating the gak out of everything in sight?

A Town Called Malus wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:If Tau get the Matt Ward treatment,

Could we please not do this? Ever?

Functioning game rules with a chance to at least be a mid tier army?

What's not to love?

The fluff that all the Tau have accepted Roboute Guilliman as their spiritual liege and that Farsight/Shadowsun/Space Pope/Aun'shi/<Inset New Special Character Name Here> is running around the Eye of Terror single handedly beating the gak out of everything in sight?

Naw, Farsight will completely Decimate Ghazhkull's armies, personally bitchsmack the ork warlord in hand to hand combat, and kill all his warbosses, than proceed to let him live just so the orks know the name of the EPIC FARSIGHT!

You'd rather have good fluff than a powerful army list?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Naw, Farsight will completely Decimate Ghazhkull's armies, personally bitchsmack the ork warlord in hand to hand combat, and kill all his warbosses, than proceed to let him live just so the orks know the name of the EPIC FARSIGHT!

That actually happened in one game I played against my Orky friend, just without the "letting Gaz live" bit. The look on his face was priceless when Gazghkull and bodyguard were wiped out in close combat by Tau (admittedly after being weakened pretty badly by a salvo of rapid fire plasma rifles).

I will never let him forget it.

Blood Lord Soldado wrote:You'd rather have good fluff than a powerful army list?

powerful would be the wrong word. competitive, balanced (both internally and externally) and versatile, with many different competitive options. that would be good.

Blood Lord Soldado wrote:You'd rather have good fluff than a powerful army list?

I'd rather get both but if getting a good list with lots of competitive power means losing everything about the army that made me pick them in the first place then I'll go fluff over rules any time. I think the Tau codex is one of the most balanced out there in terms of its fluff and I'd like it to stay that way.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Blood Lord Soldado wrote:You'd rather have good fluff than a powerful army list?

I'd rather get both but if getting a good list with lots of competitive power means losing everything about the army that made me pick them in the first place then I'll go fluff over rules any time. I think the Tau codex is one of the most balanced out there in terms of its fluff and I'd like it to stay that way.

What did you go into them for?

I'm just taking these one at a time. I have my new Necrons in May, and right now that's all I'm concerned about.

kronk wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:C) He wanted to do you a favour based on bogus rumours he read online

I agree with this post.

Redshirt's don't know squat about upcoming releases.

It depends if you are willing to wait to expand your army till the new stuff comes out, but if you like to paint buy it now so you can paint it.

My favorite color is red and I have a lot of red shirts I wear. I'm wearing one now! <-- red shirts

I just hope the new codex gives me the option to equip my XV8s with Taufists and Taublasters. Or maybe upgrade to XV88s and give them Taucannons.

I heard a rumor that the Piranhas are going to get a new ability- if a squadron of 3 flies at full speed within 6 inches of an enemy unit they get to employ the Taunado maneuver that allows the Tau player to immediately move the enemy unit a direction and distance indicated by the scatter dice.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Blood Lord Soldado wrote:You'd rather have good fluff than a powerful army list?

I'd rather get both but if getting a good list with lots of competitive power means losing everything about the army that made me pick them in the first place then I'll go fluff over rules any time. I think the Tau codex is one of the most balanced out there in terms of its fluff and I'd like it to stay that way.

What did you go into them for?

Well the units and versatility inherent in them. I don't think Crisis suits are going to be going anywhere so I'm pretty sure this'll stay no matter what else happens when they get updated.

Their optimistic view on the future, which is a good counter for all the doom and gloom from every other army out there (except for orks who enjoy what they do and Tyranids who only think about lunch). I don't get people's complaints about this. The Tau are a young race, why would they be resigned to a slow rot like the Imperium or fading to extinction like the Eldar? A static universe where everyone is miserable and resigned to their fate is bland and uninteresting.

That none of their special characters relied on heavy-handed heroics to make them seem strong or capable. Farsight and Shadowsun achieved their victories with tactics and strategy, not single handedly defeating the enemy commander in a duel or whatever. All the heroics of the Tau empire have been of them standing together to face the enemy, rather than one individual saving the day.

The release date for the new codex tau is this: NEVER or so it seems, all models ready and waiting? im not buying it, i cant see a company letting their money root on their basements while they have all tau players like zombies hitting the door for new releases and an actual codex.

Tau are probable not even on the schedule, i we will not be able to see them as a brand new army until 2013, wich is too far away to actually even think about it, or bother about it.

PD: Yeah, im pissed since i can only wait to be able to buy XV-88 on my FLGS, since there is no GW shop on my lil`island, and im not goin to pay 120 € to get just 3 minis when i actually need up to 6 of them.

GK and DE models were ready months before the release.

Hell, DE models were leaked ages before the release. Jes Goodwin was furious.

All this thread reminds me to do is to actually attach the little receivers to my Fire Warriors.

I hope they don't change the Battlesuit TOO much, I don't want mine to be out of place.

Here's to hoping for a 3 pack of battlesuits instead of individual boxes.

Two of those and a new commander model would surely bring my tau off of the shelf.

Oh and a new codex would be nice.

Here's to something that doesn't turn into a crock of spit again.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Here's to something that doesn't turn into a crock of spit again.

I totally agree.

The only thing stopping from doing Tau right now is a new release.

When my FLGS started giving away metal models. I posted a thread on the subject and everybody said that nothing was going to happen, there were rumors, but most people doubted them. About a month and a half later, Games Workshop announced finecast. So, if he advised against buying it, i think a finecast is probable, since a new tau codex might be rather odd. But, you never know, the internet has been wrong and could be wrong again...

The fact that this guy is a real hard sell sell sell type of guy. Waaaaay more than anyone else I've encountered in a GW.

For him to convince me not to buy something is pretty big.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Puscifer wrote:Personally, I cannot see them coming out in Finecast.

Are there any finecast/plastic hybrid kits?

To my knowledge there are none.

...As for Farsight, do they sell enough of him for them to think changing him into plastic is a worthwhile investment? If not then he might become the first resin/plastic hybrid kit from GW.

Necrons are getting finecast upgrade kits for Destroyer Lords and Heavy Destroyers. It wouldn't be a stretch for Crisis Suit Commanders, etc to be an upgrade kit.

I was told something similar to this at the end of last year, as the shop I'd been to couldn't reorder tau stock. This was after Finecast was realeased.

They thought a new year realease was probable, well that's been and gone.

I think it will happen as they have a line that is for all intents and purposes stalling, but there are much more important (more popular?) lines like Eldar, chaos and more marines to do IMO. That's not to saw GW won't throw a curve ball out there.

KaiserEddie wrote:The release date for the new codex tau is this: NEVER or so it seems, all models ready and waiting? im not buying it, i cant see a company letting their money root on their basements while they have all tau players like zombies hitting the door for new releases and an actual codex...

Actually this could make sense from GW's stand-point. They've already shown that they don't release multiple armies at once even when they're ready, purely for marketing reasons. If they follow the same schedule they have all year, it'll be Fantasy/40k/Fantasy/40k/etc...

So with May being Necrons, June is Fantasy something, July is 40k - probably 6th ed., then August Fantasy, September Dark Angels, October Fantasy, November might be the first we see Tau, even if they're already finished and ready to go. But most people push it into 2013 because they think Chaos or Eldar or both will be first. All those model could be finished and ready to go too. Remember the old system where they used to give us that useless picture preview like 4 months out? They finish all the models quite a while before they release them. Doing it this way makes them more money.

Kilkrazy wrote:One of the big Tyranid models is mixed media -- plastic and Finecast.

The Hive Tyrant was sold as a Finecast/Plastic Hybrid for several months until it was replaced by the new plastic one.

Well, I think we all just want it to be true really badly..

But after the last rumor mess, I will just stick to the golden rule:
Pictures or it didn't happen.

To be fair, the May Necron rumors panned out so who knows.

The same thing happened to me when I went to my FLGS the other day. I was looking for broadsides he said: He didn't have them, and wasn't going to have them for awhile. And he said to wait a few months for the new tau stuff. I'm not holding my breath.

Well May looks fairly locked down with Necrons and SM finecast wave. :(

Anpu-adom wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Puscifer wrote:Personally, I cannot see them coming out in Finecast.

Are there any finecast/plastic hybrid kits?

To my knowledge there are none.

...As for Farsight, do they sell enough of him for them to think changing him into plastic is a worthwhile investment? If not then he might become the first resin/plastic hybrid kit from GW.

Necrons are getting finecast upgrade kits for Destroyer Lords and Heavy Destroyers. It wouldn't be a stretch for Crisis Suit Commanders, etc to be an upgrade kit.

It wouldn't be a stretch, but given that we've been hearing rumblings for quite awhile of redone Crisis Suits I'd think it would be far more likely to see a full plastic kit with options for Broadsides, Commanders, and normal Crisis Suits.

Again everything I hear about Tau I'm still assuming springtime next year. I really can't see anything coming out sooner then that.

Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

SickSix wrote:Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

Yeah, (overused annoying catchphrase term) railguns that don't weigh half a pound each, fall over and chip constantly would suck.

I was told last year the same thing about Broadsides. When they ran out of stock the store owner said they were being delayed until they came out with the finecast version.
Then I eventually got the same old metal ones to my disappointment.

SickSix wrote:Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

Not cute OR funny. Had ALL THREE in a squad fall off the table...at a local tournament. Needless to say, it made things VERY difficult...

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:If Tau get the Matt Ward treatment,

Could we please not do this? Ever?

Functioning game rules with a chance to at least be a mid tier army?

What's not to love?

Yes. It would be a big step up.

Kepora wrote:

SickSix wrote:Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

Not cute OR funny. Had ALL THREE in a squad fall off the table...at a local tournament. Needless to say, it made things VERY difficult...

Well sorry about your luck. But I think my chances of having all of my broadsides fall off the table is minuscule compared to the chances of getting large gakked up pieces of finecast that I have to return multiple times or add material to. You are speaking from your experience and I am speaking from mine. Neither of us is 'wrong'.

SickSix wrote:

Kepora wrote:

SickSix wrote:Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

Not cute OR funny. Had ALL THREE in a squad fall off the table...at a local tournament. Needless to say, it made things VERY difficult...

Well sorry about your luck. But I think my chances of having all of my broadsides fall off the table is minuscule compared to the chances of getting large gakked up pieces of finecast that I have to return multiple times or add material to. You are speaking from your experience and I am speaking from mine. Neither of us is 'wrong'.

I don't know, my friends and I have yet to get a bad finecast model so I never could understand what people are fussing about. Is it that common to get a bad model or are people just whining about 1 in 10,000 models being mildly bad?
I for one thought metal models were the worst thing ever to exist. They are difficult to paint, chip all the time at the slightest touch, and made models unbalanced and fall over easily.
I think the other thing I don't understand is, why make finecast models? Why not drop metal and resin and stick to plastic entirely, it would probably save a lot of money by streamlining production of models by staying with one material.

Dantalian wrote:
I think the other thing I don't understand is, why make finecast models? Why not drop metal and resin and stick to plastic entirely, it would probably save a lot of money by streamlining production of models by staying with one material.

Because ONE metal mold for injection molded plastic is $20,000+ to manufacture. For low volume models like special characters, it just is not cost effective. Now, why didn't they just do straight resin? I have no idea. People have been doing that for ages and it's a known process. Probably would not have had near the hiccups as going to an all new material and process.

@Dantalian Just go here rather than turn this into a FC thread...you don't need to read the whole thing, just skip through the pics and follow the first link:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/414690.page

Brother SRM wrote:

SickSix wrote:Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

Yeah, (overused annoying catchphrase term) railguns that don't weigh half a pound each, fall over and chip constantly would suck.

They come pre-chipped!

SickSix wrote:

Kepora wrote:

SickSix wrote:Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

Not cute OR funny. Had ALL THREE in a squad fall off the table...at a local tournament. Needless to say, it made things VERY difficult...

Well sorry about your luck. But I think my chances of having all of my broadsides fall off the table is minuscule compared to the chances of getting large gakked up pieces of finecast that I have to return multiple times or add material to. You are speaking from your experience and I am speaking from mine. Neither of us is 'wrong'.

Getting "gakked up" pieces of finecast isn't nearly as common as people on the internet make it out to be. My buddy has a lictor and tyrant guard in FC and they're fine, and I went to Paper Heroes in Lake Charles (down here in Louisiana) and looked over their FInecast stock. All looked like models I could clean up and assemble in no time. And either way, finecast railguns would be a HELL of a lot easier to fix-jsut glue it back on and go! THe metal ones....those things just do NOT want to stay on. Personally, I'm hoping for Forgeworld-like ones, but maybe keep the option for over-the-shoulder railguns. I just like that look.

coyotius wrote:@Dantalian Just go here rather than turn this into a FC thread...you don't need to read the whole thing, just skip through the pics and follow the first link:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/414690.page

That thread is utter garbage. Not only are most of the models that they've actually SHOWN easy to prep/fix (ALL models need prep work, they always have!), but most of it's just "he-said/she-said" and "Lol Finecast name I think is witty and cool and hurrdurr". They neglect to take into account the numerous people who just go about their business and put togethe rthe models they're totally fine with, instead of going on the internet and going "OMG LOOK HOW GOOD MY CAST CAME OUT".

helium42 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

SickSix wrote:Yeah, failcast railguns would suuuuck.

Yeah, (overused annoying catchphrase term) railguns that don't weigh half a pound each, fall over and chip constantly would suck.

They come pre-chipped!

Pretty much explains the previous thread. Would rather have to do a little liquid GS work than hard-to-remove mold lines, hard-to-straighten barrels/rails, and parts that won't stay on. And I actually think Tau are one of the most resin-friendly armies; lots of smooth surfaces, so even if there are imperfections they won't be hard to fix at all. I'm personally anxious to see what they do with Farsight!


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Kilkrazy wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:If Tau get the Matt Ward treatment,

Could we please not do this? Ever?

Functioning game rules with a chance to at least be a mid tier army?

What's not to love?

Yes. It would be a big step up.

Just keep him away from the fluff. Either way I heard Phil Kelly's gonna be doing it, but if they make any pre-existing units outside of Kroot, Vespid, or Farsight (and perhaps his squad) close-combat units then we're gonna have problems.

SickSix wrote:

Dantalian wrote:
I think the other thing I don't understand is, why make finecast models? Why not drop metal and resin and stick to plastic entirely, it would probably save a lot of money by streamlining production of models by staying with one material.

Because ONE metal mold for injection molded plastic is $20,000+ to manufacture. For low volume models like special characters, it just is not cost effective. Now, why didn't they just do straight resin? I have no idea. People have been doing that for ages and it's a known process. Probably would not have had near the hiccups as going to an all new material and process.

What? How much is a Resin mold then? You can't provide a number without something to compare it to. Also this argument seems a little iffy to me. I could see cutting corners if there was a thousand or so special characters, but 40k doesn't have that many special characters. Each Resin model requires some amount of hands-on labor, making the final cost per unit produced fairly high. This is in contrast to injection molding where the initial cost of creating the metal mold is higher, but the mold can be used to produce a much higher number of units, resulting in a lower cost per unit. Plastic injection molding will still be the most economical process to choose.

coyotius wrote:@Dantalian Just go here rather than turn this into a FC thread...you don't need to read the whole thing, just skip through the pics and follow the first link:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/414690.page

Ok that sucks, but I would like to see a statistic on how common this problem is. It seems rather high, but my inner stats major would rather see numerical evidence. I see he got 8 bad models in a row, but out of my group of friends there has been about 30 FC models purchased and none of them have any errors. From what I can tell the rate of error is actually pretty low, but people are blowing the problem out of proportion. And even then I would much rather fix a hole on a resin model then try to clean up a piece of bent metal. Because I don't think I ever got a broadside that did not have its railguns bent in some way that I had to fix.


More or less back on topic, I hate broadsides so much right now that I pretty much substitute them with other crisis models and put paper hats on them. I have say I have lost many a broadside over the years, and now with the price of them going up like it is I don't care to even put them on table anymore. I can't imagine resin molding two railguns would be easier than a mass plastic mold of railguns that they can just throw in the existing crisis suit box. Crisis suits coming boxes of 3 would be nice, but I don't see it happening unless they really do plan on making crisis suits cheap in the next codex and able to field a greater number of them. What I could see them doing is boxing a crisis suit kit with the parts needed to make it into a broadside, and just get rid of the broadside box altogether. I think that would make people a lot happier in the long run.

But all this talk is pretty much moot since we don't know what GW will do with the next codex. For all we know crisis suits will get an option to have one Railgun on one suit per squad making them stronger AT as well as anti-troop. I can't seem to find the image right now, but I have seen some people model a fireknife with one mounted railgun that looked pretty cool. I also expect Firewarrior to get railrifles in their lists in the next edition as well. In the current edition railrifles are listed as "just recently been autorised for issue to front-line units," so I see no reason why they wouldn't get bumped into a squad that can better use them. It's small changes with existing material like this I would like to see in the next Tau codex.

SickSix wrote:

Dantalian wrote:
I think the other thing I don't understand is, why make finecast models? Why not drop metal and resin and stick to plastic entirely, it would probably save a lot of money by streamlining production of models by staying with one material.

Because ONE metal mold for injection molded plastic is $20,000+ to manufacture. For low volume models like special characters, it just is not cost effective. Now, why didn't they just do straight resin? I have no idea. People have been doing that for ages and it's a known process. Probably would not have had near the hiccups as going to an all new material and process.

Then why are new special character models coming out in Finecast? Some of the new ones were never produced in metal.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:

SickSix wrote:

Dantalian wrote:
I think the other thing I don't understand is, why make finecast models? Why not drop metal and resin and stick to plastic entirely, it would probably save a lot of money by streamlining production of models by staying with one material.

Because ONE metal mold for injection molded plastic is $20,000+ to manufacture. For low volume models like special characters, it just is not cost effective. Now, why didn't they just do straight resin? I have no idea. People have been doing that for ages and it's a known process. Probably would not have had near the hiccups as going to an all new material and process.

Then why are new special character models coming out in Finecast? Some of the new ones were never produced in metal.

Why is GW playing deadfish on advertising when ever economist and buisness owner would tell you that's a stupid idea? GW is not known for its practicality, I would not be surprised if they are doing FC knowing it's more expensive.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:
Then why are new special character models coming out in Finecast? Some of the new ones were never produced in metal.

They stopped using metal because of the price of tin, and shipping weight costs. That's why they switched over to Finecast.

Brother SRM wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:
Then why are new special character models coming out in Finecast? Some of the new ones were never produced in metal.

They stopped using metal because of the price of tin, and shipping weight costs. That's why they switched over to Finecast.

And that is understandable. It makes sense to want to continue using the old molds they spent so many thousands on, filling them with a cheaper material. What I don't get is why they aren't releasing all new material in plastic. Why bother making brand new Finecast characters? GW is one of the best manufacturers of plastic models, with little experience in using resin. Surely they'd want to stick to their strengths.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:
Then why are new special character models coming out in Finecast? Some of the new ones were never produced in metal.

They stopped using metal because of the price of tin, and shipping weight costs. That's why they switched over to Finecast.

And that is understandable. It makes sense to want to continue using the old molds they spent so many thousands on, filling them with a cheaper material. What I don't get is why they aren't releasing all new material in plastic. Why bother making brand new Finecast characters? GW is one of the best manufacturers of plastic models, with little experience in using resin. Surely they'd want to stick to their strengths.

In short, I don't think they would make their money back, or at least not make enough profit to justify it. I love the single plastic characters for WHFB , though, and while I don't even play WHFB, I've purchased several of the plastic character models. I guess those were made profitable by essentially being snap-fit models which use like a quarter of a full sprue.

Also, keep in mind they appear to have tested plastic characters, both with the Space Marine Commander and the CSM Terminator Lord. It would appear these are not profitable enough to justify expanding to other factions. I don't have any details here, so this is just speculation, but if they were making lots of money of single character plastics, they would surely expand upon it.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:
And that is understandable. It makes sense to want to continue using the old molds they spent so many thousands on, filling them with a cheaper material. What I don't get is why they aren't releasing all new material in plastic. Why bother making brand new Finecast characters? GW is one of the best manufacturers of plastic models, with little experience in using resin. Surely they'd want to stick to their strengths.

Because the metal molds for plastic models cost a hell of a lot of money, and they are decidedly different molds than the ones used for resin or metal. Resin and metal can use cheap rubber molds, plastics require metal molds that cost upwards of 20,000 GBP a piece. GW does want to go towards all plastic as can be clearly seen, but it's going to be some time yet. I have a feeling we'll see plastic generic characters like Fantasy's been getting soon though. I'm assuming that those have one big mold with multiple sprues on it that they then package separately.

Brother SRM wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:
And that is understandable. It makes sense to want to continue using the old molds they spent so many thousands on, filling them with a cheaper material. What I don't get is why they aren't releasing all new material in plastic. Why bother making brand new Finecast characters? GW is one of the best manufacturers of plastic models, with little experience in using resin. Surely they'd want to stick to their strengths.

Because the metal molds for plastic models cost a hell of a lot of money, and they are decidedly different molds than the ones used for resin or metal. Resin and metal can use cheap rubber molds, plastics require metal molds that cost upwards of 20,000 GBP a piece. GW does want to go towards all plastic as can be clearly seen, but it's going to be some time yet. I have a feeling we'll see plastic generic characters like Fantasy's been getting soon though. I'm assuming that those have one big mold with multiple sprues on it that they then package separately.

That's why I still think plastic is cheaper. Plastic molds can be made to produce a large amount of sprues where resin molds cannot. Resin also requires physical labor to finish and release where plastic molds do not. I can't imagine paying someone to do the work for small batches of resin molds can be more cost effective than not paying someone to work on large batches of plastic molds. Even with a relatively larger start up cost, the return of expenses would be rather large on the scale in which they produce and sell models. And since GW loves to use the same models for many years it makes even more sense to start out with plastic models and skip resin altogether.

I guess that means buy metal now. I still have all the metal minis i have ever bought. As to finecast BE CAREFUL Mine, after getting a replacement for the first miscast, melted after being in the car for a short drive. After warm water soak to bend it back to shape it broke. Metal lasts, finecast dies in terrible ways if it is not treated like fine crystal.

battlematt wrote:I guess that means buy metal now. I still have all the metal minis i have ever bought. As to finecast BE CAREFUL Mine, after getting a replacement for the first miscast, melted after being in the car for a short drive. After warm water soak to bend it back to shape it broke. Metal lasts, finecast dies in terrible ways if it is not treated like fine crystal.

Another reason to choose plastic.

I think this topic is dead and just going off in random directions

newdigitaltau wrote:I think this topic is dead and just going off in random directions

My thoughts when I read the first post

I absolutely cannot wait to see what GW will do with the new Tau battlesuits. If the new plastic kits we've been getting are anything to go by, coupled with the awesomeness of the FW suits, it'll be a modelling treat.

Dantalian wrote:
That's why I still think plastic is cheaper. Plastic molds can be made to produce a large amount of sprues where resin molds cannot. Resin also requires physical labor to finish and release where plastic molds do not. I can't imagine paying someone to do the work for small batches of resin molds can be more cost effective than not paying someone to work on large batches of plastic molds. Even with a relatively larger start up cost, the return of expenses would be rather large on the scale in which they produce and sell models. And since GW loves to use the same models for many years it makes even more sense to start out with plastic models and skip resin altogether.

You think plastic is cheaper, I know it isn't, at least in the short run. It costs 20,000 GBP to make a mold for plastic models. A rubber mold can be made at home. In the long run, plastic tends to be cheaper, but it takes a lot of sales to make up for the cost of the mold itself. Once it does it's more profitable since it tends to be on units that sell more. For example I only need one Finecast Space Marine Captain, but I'm going to buy a couple plastic Rhinos or Tactical Squads.

My local GW has now run out of Firewarriors.

I asked when they are getting any in...

They can't order them anymore.

This was from a different member of staff.

Curiouser and curiouser...considering that it's a plastic kit, could mean that the rumors have at least some credence...

spectreoneone wrote:Curiouser and curiouser...considering that it's a plastic kit, could mean that the rumors have at least some credence...

It's a pain in the ass more than anything else.

I'm trying to plan my next army and can't until they announce the new range.

But I consider this to be a big sign, especially since:

A) This is a core part of the army that every player must have.

B) It's a core plastic kit and not a finecast kit that could do with a plastic release.

It is quite strange that the Fire Warriors are unavailable to your store.

Especially considering they're still showing as "Available: Shipping within 24 hours" on the US webstore.

Puscifer wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:Curiouser and curiouser...considering that it's a plastic kit, could mean that the rumors have at least some credence...

It's a pain in the ass more than anything else.

I'm trying to plan my next army and can't until they announce the new range.

But I consider this to be a big sign, especially since:

A) This is a core part of the army that every player must have.

B) It's a core plastic kit and not a finecast kit that could do with a plastic release.

Agreed. That's why I'm starting up an IG army right now, and holding off on my Tau, moreso now that this has come to light.

Edit: Ninja'd by Kanluwen.

Could they be cutting off the supply to the stores and selling down stock to make room?

I hadn't checked the Webstore, but I cannot see why a different member of staff would tell me that they cannot be ordered, when if they could, I would have bought a squad to paint.

They are neither on backorder or unavailable, I looked on both GWUS and GWUK.

Both show them as "Available: Usually ships within 24 hours."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Puscifer wrote:I hadn't checked the Webstore, but I cannot see why a different member of staff would tell me that they cannot be ordered, when if they could, I would have bought a squad to paint.

It is strange that they would say something like that.

It might be that they cannot order them for stock purposes but can direct order them for you?

I dunno.

He didn't point me to the Webstore and just said that he couldn't order them in.

I thought it was for stock purposes too, but it's a little too much of a coincidence, considering the conversationI had with another member of staff regarding the Commander and Farsight.

I wish I had a GW store nearby (none within 100mi of here), I'd see if they say the same thing. Unfortunately, the FLGS here is in the dark as much as we are (GW is so horrible with their information blackout nonsense...)

Puscifer wrote:My local GW has now run out of Firewarriors.

I asked when they are getting any in...

They can't order them anymore.

This was from a different member of staff.

Probably just a shortage. I don't see why they'd change the Fire Warriors. I could be wrong, but from memory they didn't change the Necron Warriors and their models are 9+ years old.

Unless they make Pathfinders a troop choice and combine plastic Pathfinders with Fire Warriors in the one box, having the option to create a squad of either from the contents. That would be pretty neat.

Puscifer wrote:Got "advised" to wait a couple of months instead of buying them today.

Sometimes stores will react to rumors they hear on the interwebs. That was the case in Milwaukee when I walked into a store clearancing all of thier Tau merchandice back in January of this year...they had read repeatedly on Warseer that Tau were due for 1st quarter 2012. Got to love how GW's non-information policy is impacting thier distributors.

Right now, Harry has stated that Tau will be out early 2013.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:
Unless they make Pathfinders a troop choice and combine plastic Pathfinders with Fire Warriors in the one box, having the option to create a squad of either from the contents. That would be pretty neat.

That's what Harry rumored a long time ago. It makes the most sense, as the other rumors had Pathfinders becoming more "commando like" whatever that means.

My guess if anything is going to happen, it's a Finecast transfer to coincide with the Space Marine on this may.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:Probably just a shortage. I don't see why they'd change the Fire Warriors. I could be wrong, but from memory they didn't change the Necron Warriors and their models are 9+ years old.

They didn't. Moreover, Ragnar is a twenty year-old sculpt, as is Ulrik. Dante, Mephiston and Abaddon are only a few years younger than that, and they've still been recast in resin and reissued with a increased price, presumably because GW see no profit in resculpting them. The same goes for the Fire Warriors.

Stanley Rubric wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:
Unless they make Pathfinders a troop choice and combine plastic Pathfinders with Fire Warriors in the one box, having the option to create a squad of either from the contents. That would be pretty neat.

That's what Harry rumored a long time ago. It makes the most sense, as the other rumors had Pathfinders becoming more "commando like" whatever that means.

This would simplify life so much for the Tau player. However, I don't see PFs becoming a troops choice. What I do see is a FW/PF box, FWs getting a few more weapons options (rail rifles, perhaps?), and maybe a point value adjustment for both. Then again, I never really saw the PFs fitting in as a fast attack choice, aside from the requirement to have a fish along with them. I really would like to see the PF troop choice switch, and replace their fast attack slot with some sort of lightweight battlesuit (along the lines of the XV-15) armed with a TL pulse carbine and markerlights.

Harriticus wrote:My guess if anything is going to happen, it's a Finecast transfer to coincide with the Space Marine on this may.

I would love to see Broads and the commanders get switched over soon. Would be a smart move, IMHO.

English Assassin wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:Probably just a shortage. I don't see why they'd change the Fire Warriors. I could be wrong, but from memory they didn't change the Necron Warriors and their models are 9+ years old.

They didn't. Moreover, Ragnar is a twenty year-old sculpt, as is Ulrik. Dante, Mephiston and Abaddon are only a few years younger than that, and they've still been recast in resin and reissued with a increased price, presumably because GW see no profit in resculpting them.

Characters aren't resculpted all that often, which likely has more to do with it. Especially when said characters aren't all that bad looking to begin with, or when the book introduces some new characters who have no models at launch.

The same goes for the Fire Warriors.

I would normally agree, but we'll have to see how the Tau Codex itself shapes up.
If they radically change the options available to Fire Warrior squads, it might very well be a better option for them to simply redo the Fire Warrior kit.

I still think a Hybrid kit will be a mistake and will not happen.

What's the point when you can just have a better plastic kit?

Puscifer wrote:I still think a Hybrid kit will be a mistake and will not happen.

What's the point when you can just have a better plastic kit?

Unless they redo the Crisis suits, GW will stick with the hybrid. It's much simpler and cheaper to just create the resin molds for the upgrade parts for the Broads, commander, and Farsight kits. Shadowsun would get a full resin kit, most likely recast from her metal kit.

Resin is much cheaper than metal. The problem is it is highley toxic. The models are often disformed and have bubbles as well as break when being shipped. In other words makes you do some major greenstuffing plus glue or buy another model. So both ways they are getting even more money. Also the tau codex dose not need a update that badly. remember when everyone was saying that the IG needed update instead of necrons, I was like WTF!?!?!? The tau are just fine they may make finecast models but the codex is already able to combat a wardian codex.

The Tau 'dex is far from able to compete with the later 'dexes.

If you have proof against my opinion, I'll gladly be mistaken and admit it.

It needs an update more than any other, except maybe Chaos.

English Assassin wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:Probably just a shortage. I don't see why they'd change the Fire Warriors. I could be wrong, but from memory they didn't change the Necron Warriors and their models are 9+ years old.

They didn't. Moreover, Ragnar is a twenty year-old sculpt, as is Ulrik. Dante, Mephiston and Abaddon are only a few years younger than that, and they've still been recast in resin and reissued with a increased price, presumably because GW see no profit in resculpting them. The same goes for the Fire Warriors.

Which is a shame, because the quality of the Tau kits is atrocious compared to recent GW offerings.

Nurgle wrote:Resin is much cheaper than metal. The problem is it is highley toxic. The models are often disformed and have bubbles as well as break when being shipped. In other words makes you do some major greenstuffing plus glue or buy another model. So both ways they are getting even more money. Also the tau codex dose not need a update that badly. remember when everyone was saying that the IG needed update instead of necrons, I was like WTF!?!?!? The tau are just fine they may make finecast models but the codex is already able to combat a wardian codex.

...So, what color crack are you smoking? In all seriousness though, finecast resin is non-toxic, and air bubbles are a problem with ANY resin mini, and I have yet to see a Finecast mini that was broken in transit. And don't link me to that thread because it's utter GW-bashing garbage. Also...no. The Tau codex is hurting BAD. If I recall, there wasn't even a single Tau army at Adepticon.

Nurgle wrote:Resin is much cheaper than metal. The problem is it is highley toxic. The models are often disformed and have bubbles as well as break when being shipped. In other words makes you do some major greenstuffing plus glue or buy another model. So both ways they are getting even more money. Also the tau codex dose not need a update that badly. remember when everyone was saying that the IG needed update instead of necrons, I was like WTF!?!?!? The tau are just fine they may make finecast models but the codex is already able to combat a wardian codex.

GW just needs practice with resin. And, TBH, the fincast horror stories are a little overblown. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

As for the Tau codex's viability, it hardly stands up to what you are trying to paint it to be. The main problem with the Tau dex is that the units are over-costed (drop the FWs to 8 points a model, and I'll be happy). The Crisis suits need a BS improvement (not to mention a slight aesthetic overhaul).

But, when it comes to it, the proof is in the pudding...look at the tournament brackets; how often do you see a Tau army move very far? Of course, when they get their new dex, I can see Tau ending up in the same position as the current GK dex, scorned as being too OP.

spectreoneone wrote:I would love to see Broads

Let's stay on topic

Kepora wrote:In all seriousness though, finecast resin is non-toxic, and air bubbles are a problem with ANY resin mini, and I have yet to see a Finecast mini that was broken in transit. And don't link me to that thread because it's utter GW-bashing garbage.

I haven't seen one broken in transit in person (but outside of Warhammer World I've not seen many Finecast models in their blister), but people I know IRL have reported it happening to them, so I do believe it can happen.

And "that thread", as I've seen you refer to More Finecast Shenanigans on a couple of threads now, is not just GW-bashing.- when even Kanluwen* is agreeing that there are issues with the material, then there is a problem.

* Nothing personal, Kanluwen

Dysartes wrote:

Kepora wrote:In all seriousness though, finecast resin is non-toxic, and air bubbles are a problem with ANY resin mini, and I have yet to see a Finecast mini that was broken in transit. And don't link me to that thread because it's utter GW-bashing garbage.

I haven't seen one broken in transit in person (but outside of Warhammer World I've not seen many Finecast models in their blister), but people I know IRL have reported it happening to them, so I do believe it can happen.

And "that thread", as I've seen you refer to More Finecast Shenanigans on a couple of threads now, is not just GW-bashing.- when even Kanluwen* is agreeing that there are issues with the material, then there is a problem.

* Nothing personal, Kanluwen

I figured there was nothing personal, Dysartes.

That said, he's not entirely wrong. Every so often it devolves into nothing but off-topic mudslinging/complaints about the company itself and not the material which just drags it off-topic.
I personally just report the off-topic posts.

Anyways, Tau. I'm going to ask the manager at the newly opened GW if Fire Warriors are something he can restock on or not.

Kepora wrote: and I have yet to see a Finecast mini that was broken in transit.

Just check blisters of the Dark Eldar Lhamaean, the sword breaks easily in transit as I can confirm (and if not in transit, it WILL break when played often). There are certainly other examples.

Back on topic...

I'm heading to Edinburgh for a long weekend and I will pop into GW, to see what they say.

If they say anything differently to my local GW, we will know that there is no new Tau release coming soon.

Kroothawk wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:I would love to see Broads

Let's stay on topic

Nyuk nyuk nyuk. If I wanted that, I'd just buy a Barracuda and do some nice "nose art.".

Kanluwen wrote:

English Assassin wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:Probably just a shortage. I don't see why they'd change the Fire Warriors. I could be wrong, but from memory they didn't change the Necron Warriors and their models are 9+ years old.

They didn't. Moreover, Ragnar is a twenty year-old sculpt, as is Ulrik. Dante, Mephiston and Abaddon are only a few years younger than that, and they've still been recast in resin and reissued with a increased price, presumably because GW see no profit in resculpting them.

Characters aren't resculpted all that often, which likely has more to do with it. Especially when said characters aren't all that bad looking to begin with, or when the book introduces some new characters who have no models at launch.

The same goes for the Fire Warriors.

I would normally agree, but we'll have to see how the Tau Codex itself shapes up.
If they radically change the options available to Fire Warrior squads, it might very well be a better option for them to simply redo the Fire Warrior kit.

They've recut kits in the past, keeping the sculpts from the original kit but redoing the sprue to add more options. I could easily see them doing this for the fairly sparse FW sprue, adding rail rifles, markerlights and other options to allow them to produce pathfinders (and marker drones) as well.

kronk wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:C) He wanted to do you a favour based on bogus rumours he read online

I agree with this post.

Redshirt's don't know squat about upcoming releases.

Now you've done it. You've gone and said the "sq" word. By now, Officio Assassinorum agents have been dispatched...you'd better run for your life, dude.

Puscifer wrote:I knew he wrote the IG 'dex and I really enjoyed that one. It was a good read.

I didn't realise he wrote the 'Nid one. I wasn't happy with that one. They totally screwed over the Nid players with that pile of Gak.

I hope this will be a return to form.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and in regards to the models...

The only thing I can see being kept is...

The Kroot Carnivores.

The Devilfish/Hammerhead/Sky Ray.

The Piranha.

The XV25.

These kits are still very much up-to-date. Everything else is very subpar by todays standards. The suits in particular need to be updated.

How dare you insult my beloved Tyranid Codex! Besides, it really isn't THAT bad...

Kanluwen wrote:
Why would anyone ever take a Valkyrie over a Vendetta?

If you already have enough anti-tank in your army. Valkyrie is pretty good against hordes if you give it rocket pods.

Just got back from GW Edinburgh...

Tau are not having a codex this year, but they are having a release to coincide with 6th Ed, as are all the other armies.

Could be a bunch of fine cast hybrid stuff for Broadside, Commander and Farsight.

Puscifer wrote:Just got back from GW Edinburgh...

Tau are not having a codex this year, but they are having a release to coincide with 6th Ed, as are all the other armies.

Could be a bunch of fine cast hybrid stuff for Broadside, Commander and Farsight.

I was trying not to get my hopes up about a new codex still a bit disapointed.
The thought of a new release is good news and will tide me over a bit

Puscifer wrote:Just got back from GW Edinburgh...

Tau are not having a codex this year, but they are having a release to coincide with 6th Ed, as are all the other armies.

Could be a bunch of fine cast hybrid stuff for Broadside, Commander and Farsight.

Well, good to hear that everybody's getting something new with the 6th ed launch. Anything new for Tau is a good thing, even if it's just recut sprues or reduction of hybrid kits.

Puscifer wrote:Just got back from GW Edinburgh...

Tau are not having a codex this year, but they are having a release to coincide with 6th Ed, as are all the other armies.

Could be a bunch of fine cast hybrid stuff for Broadside, Commander and Farsight.

That would be rather big meh, as those exact kits are the ones which most direly need whole replacement.

I was at Warhammer World (Throne of Skulls) this weekend. The Tau cadre usually in the Hall of Miniatures was "on campaign" i.e. not in its case, so away being photographed for "something"....!

EYIG

Embrace your inner geek wrote:I was at Warhammer World (Throne of Skulls) this weekend. The Tau cadre usually in the Hall of Miniatures was "on campaign" i.e. not in its case, so away being photographed for "something"....!

EYIG

Interesting...

Perhaps the rumors are wrong, and the starter box could be DA and Tau (How mad would all the Tau loathers be?). Would definitely be a huge boost for Tau players, and could mean that Tau would be released in early 2013 (I see DA being the next codex, judging by their attention on the WD spines).

Barring that, perhaps the explanation is much simpler, and we're getting new Finecast Broads, Crisis Commanders, PFs, Vespid, Kroot, and SCs. Either way, sounds somewhat promising!

spectreoneone wrote:
Barring that, perhaps the explanation is much simpler, and we're getting new Finecast Broads, Crisis Commanders, PFs, Vespid, Kroot, and SCs. Either way, sounds somewhat promising!

But, if they were to convert the suits, it means we won't see the new, improved models in the next edition

Squidmanlolz wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:
Barring that, perhaps the explanation is much simpler, and we're getting new Finecast Broads, Crisis Commanders, PFs, Vespid, Kroot, and SCs. Either way, sounds somewhat promising!

But, if they were to convert the suits, it means we won't see the new, improved models in the next edition

Not necessarily. There are a couple ways I could see GW doing this. 1. They do a total recast of the aforementioned models (far less likely, but still possible), 2. They do the hybrid models, then we get newer series suits (XV9s, maybe? Some new XV8 weight class suit?) in the next Codex update to go alongside the older suits (which means no redesign of the venerable Crisis suit), or 3. They forego doing the Broadside and Crisis Commander, and just redo the rest as full or Hybrid Finecast. Any way you slice it, we're going to win out in the end.

Then again, I could be being overly optimistic, and GW could just totally screw the Tau over and wait until just before 7th edition to update the Codex...

spectreoneone wrote:Perhaps the rumors are wrong, and the starter box could be DA and Tau (How mad would all the Tau loathers be?). Would definitely be a huge boost for Tau players, and could mean that Tau would be released in early 2013 (I see DA being the next codex, judging by their attention on the WD spines).

Yeah, that's not happening. Tau aren't going to be in the next starter set. The rumor has been DA and Chaos for a while now, and it's been confirmed by the few reputable rumormongers there are.

Brother SRM wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:Perhaps the rumors are wrong, and the starter box could be DA and Tau (How mad would all the Tau loathers be?). Would definitely be a huge boost for Tau players, and could mean that Tau would be released in early 2013 (I see DA being the next codex, judging by their attention on the WD spines).

Yeah, that's not happening. Tau aren't going to be in the next starter set. The rumor has been DA and Chaos for a while now, and it's been confirmed by the few reputable rumormongers there are.

I wouldn't say it's not possible. That being said, I'm not saying its likely, and I personally don't see it happening, but hey, stranger things happen, no?

All of that aside, personally, I would love to see the Tau get some love in terms of delving into some of their darker, more mysterious background, as well as playing a more central role in the fluff of 6th Ed.

Even as a tau fan i don't think they would be neither in the starter box or the new codex to come, im the first one to jump in the "Please update Tau!!!" wagon but this time i must say that Caos would be a better release since the main 40k background is about Loyalist vs Traitors and it be nice to make the 6th edition start from that point.

That said the only thing left is to hope Tau to be the next codex after Caos.

ps. Please update Tau!!!

Tau don't really fit as a force with a "central role" in 40k. They're a small upstart empire on the fringe of the galaxy. As someone who genuinely likes the Tau, I don't think they belong anywhere near the center of 40k lore. It would be like Dark Eldar being the central threat. Yeah, they're cool, but aren't quite as all-encompassing as Chaos, Tyranids, or even Orks.

Eh. For an oppressive mind control empire, they seem to be making some pretty good technological advancements which will only hasten their expansion, something that I think will occur both in 6th and in their new codex, whenever it comes out.

You know what model I would love in plastic or even finecast ?
The XV15. Love that model and kind of eh on the XV25.

Brother SRM wrote:Tau don't really fit as a force with a "central role" in 40k. They're a small upstart empire on the fringe of the galaxy. As someone who genuinely likes the Tau, I don't think they belong anywhere near the center of 40k lore. It would be like Dark Eldar being the central threat. Yeah, they're cool, but aren't quite as all-encompassing as Chaos, Tyranids, or even Orks.

I'm not necessarily talking about being a main "threat," but playing a central role, perhaps something along the lines of a temporary alliance with the IOM in the face of threats from the Hive Fleets. I'm not under any illusion that the Tau Empire is nearly as powerful as the other races, however they have a lot of potential to become something bigger. This, of course, is just me wishlisting. Truth be told, I think it would be more interesting for the next Tau codex to explore the rift between the Empire and the Farsight Enclave, maybe even going into another age of Mon'tau.

I just hope when they redo stealthys, they can take railrifles, or something with at least 24" range.

Ledabot wrote:I just hope when they redo stealthys, they can take railrifles, or something with at least 24" range.

I personally think they are fine with what they have in terms of weaponry. I never saw the stealthsuits to be anything beyond close-in interdiction units. They're great to DS in behind vehicles to pop them with their FBs, then use their BCs to mop up the occupants. I think that if you give them any more weapon options, you turn them into Crisis suits, thus nullifying their purpose. Truth be told, the only revamp I think the stealthsuits need is to their points, perhaps the addition of the stealth USR.

Um, they have gear to help them while they are far from the enemy. Why would a sinper rifle not be a good option in terms of fluff and actual playability? Lets face it. BCs are gack. They will never be truely effective against anything short of orks. You don't want stealthys to be close! you want them to camp on a ruin and snipe and markerlight the gack out fo things!

New rumors on Warseer are suggesting a June release.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:New rumors on Warseer are suggesting a June release.

Not that I have seen. June is looking to be fliers.

Ledabot wrote:Um, they have gear to help them while they are far from the enemy. Why would a sinper rifle not be a good option in terms of fluff and actual playability? Lets face it. BCs are gack. They will never be truely effective against anything short of orks. You don't want stealthys to be close! you want them to camp on a ruin and snipe and markerlight the gack out fo things!

I disagree. The stealth field, while more effective outside of the effective range of the weapons, is designed to give it more survivability up closer. If you were to give it rail rifles, the enemy would potentially never have a chance to hit the suits (Rail rifles having a 36" range, night fighting rules confer a maximum visual distance of 36"). Add in JSJ, and you have an overpowered unit that could hit with anti-MEQ shots and potentially never be able to be fired upon, something that is, IMHO, broken. You'd see a lot of stealthsuit spam, with the potential of having up to 18 suits, and, assuming they maintain the current status quo of equipping alternate weapons, 6 rail rifles (Now, if they change that and allow all of the suits to equip the rail rifles, you have something really broken). I know that the rail rifles are only Heavy 1, but combining that weapon with the Relentless USR of the suits gives you 6 highly mobile anti-MEQ shots a turn, which can have a visible effect on the game.

I'm all for improving the Tau, but some things would just make the game even more unbalanced than it already is.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:New rumors on Warseer are suggesting a June release.

Pulled from Warseer, which was posted about a week ago.

After a few months of silence, the Tau rumours have started up again:
Quote Originally Posted by shabbadoo View Post
Oops! Sorry, I misunderstood and was off by a month, not my source. I got corrected on that today.

Tau in June.

I have no details unfortunately.
Quote Originally Posted by shaso_iceborn View Post
Demiurg will be real in the codex. As Shabbadoo said my sources also point to a June release. I have also heard about a Tau "Mako" aircraft.
Quote Originally Posted by meltedwing View Post
Yes, Cruddance is writing/wrote the Tau book.

This just in*: 6th edition starter is going to be Tau and Eldar.






*I'm making this up. But I think it would be funny to see peoples reactions when neither DA or CSM are in the new Starter.

spectreoneone wrote:

Ledabot wrote:Um, they have gear to help them while they are far from the enemy. Why would a sinper rifle not be a good option in terms of fluff and actual playability? Lets face it. BCs are gack. They will never be truely effective against anything short of orks. You don't want stealthys to be close! you want them to camp on a ruin and snipe and markerlight the gack out fo things!

I disagree. The stealth field, while more effective outside of the effective range of the weapons, is designed to give it more survivability up closer. If you were to give it rail rifles, the enemy would potentially never have a chance to hit the suits (Rail rifles having a 36" range, night fighting rules confer a maximum visual distance of 36"). Add in JSJ, and you have an overpowered unit that could hit with anti-MEQ shots and potentially never be able to be fired upon, something that is, IMHO, broken. You'd see a lot of stealthsuit spam, with the potential of having up to 18 suits, and, assuming they maintain the current status quo of equipping alternate weapons, 6 rail rifles (Now, if they change that and allow all of the suits to equip the rail rifles, you have something really broken). I know that the rail rifles are only Heavy 1, but combining that weapon with the Relentless USR of the suits gives you 6 highly mobile anti-MEQ shots a turn, which can have a visible effect on the game.

I'm all for improving the Tau, but some things would just make the game even more unbalanced than it already is.

I don't see why to complain, i mean, Tau are supposed to be a mainly shoot army with no chance to survive at close combat, so if that's how things are supposed to be at least they need to be a real danger at long range, with the current codex there's a lot of things that doesn't work anymore, for example XV25 are a BS 3(less than 50% chance to hit), str 5 (cool), assault 3 (omg), ap 5(baaad), range 18 (¬¬), 30 pts each. At that range you cannot considerate them as a long range unit, they have less range that a lot uf units and if you considerate that they are elites and you need to sacrifice crisis to use them id say they are broken.

I'd fix them like this:
BS 4 (all armors should be BS4), 20 pts, they can take ANY weapon choice from the XV's armoury (paying the cost), defensive granades, fast attack choice

Avrik_Shasla wrote:Pulled from Warseer, which was posted about a week ago.

Actually, there are sources on Warseer predicting Dark Angels, Black Templar, Chaos Legions, Tau, Eldar, and a flier supplement for June. All say their sources are trustworthy. But I highly doubt, we will see 5 full Codex releases and a supplement in June, just saying
Looks like a deliberate misinformation campaign by GW to check the leaks.

TMonkeyGuru wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:

Ledabot wrote:Um, they have gear to help them while they are far from the enemy. Why would a sinper rifle not be a good option in terms of fluff and actual playability? Lets face it. BCs are gack. They will never be truely effective against anything short of orks. You don't want stealthys to be close! you want them to camp on a ruin and snipe and markerlight the gack out fo things!

I disagree. The stealth field, while more effective outside of the effective range of the weapons, is designed to give it more survivability up closer. If you were to give it rail rifles, the enemy would potentially never have a chance to hit the suits (Rail rifles having a 36" range, night fighting rules confer a maximum visual distance of 36"). Add in JSJ, and you have an overpowered unit that could hit with anti-MEQ shots and potentially never be able to be fired upon, something that is, IMHO, broken. You'd see a lot of stealthsuit spam, with the potential of having up to 18 suits, and, assuming they maintain the current status quo of equipping alternate weapons, 6 rail rifles (Now, if they change that and allow all of the suits to equip the rail rifles, you have something really broken). I know that the rail rifles are only Heavy 1, but combining that weapon with the Relentless USR of the suits gives you 6 highly mobile anti-MEQ shots a turn, which can have a visible effect on the game.

I'm all for improving the Tau, but some things would just make the game even more unbalanced than it already is.

I don't see why to complain, i mean, Tau are supposed to be a mainly shoot army with no chance to survive at close combat, so if that's how things are supposed to be at least they need to be a real danger at long range, with the current codex there's a lot of things that doesn't work anymore, for example XV25 are a BS 3(less than 50% chance to hit), str 5 (cool), assault 3 (omg), ap 5(baaad), range 18 (¬¬), 30 pts each. At that range you cannot considerate them as a long range unit, they have less range that a lot uf units and if you considerate that they are elites and you need to sacrifice crisis to use them id say they are broken.

I'd fix them like this:
BS 4 (all armors should be BS4), 20 pts, they can take ANY weapon choice from the XV's armoury (paying the cost), defensive granades, fast attack choice

I agree with you on the BS4 for all suits, mainly given because the base FW BS is 3, and a suit should improve that with all of its advanced sensors, etc. I also agree with you on dropping the cost of the suits, seeing as pretty much everything in the Tau codex is overcosted.

Being a Tau player myself, of course I would love to see all sorts of new toys for my Cadre to play with, and I would absolutely love Tau to be able to smash everything out there. That being said, I also realize that we have to be realistic (in relative terms here), and not throw the game even further out of balance than it already is. I agree, the Tau should be a very shooty army, and that's why I support a BS increase for the suits. I don't support giving XV25s everything out of the armory because of a few simple thoughts: 1. They are much lighter weight than the Crisis suits, and would thus be unable to field the heavier weapons, 2. They aren't designed to be these stealthy machines of death, they're designed to be small, lightweight infiltration suits that can go where XV8s can't, 3. Their role is not long-range attack, but mid to close range interdiction (which is why they have a stealth field). Sure, in small groups the XV25 has limited effectiveness, but en masse, they can throw a lot of shots downrange. Like you, though, I'd like to see them be moved into the Fast Attack FOC slot.

In relation to the BC, it has its purpose, and I frankly don't think it needs to be changed. It is not an anti-MEQ weapon. That's what your Fireknife and TL MP XV8s are for. Stealthsuits are great for DSing behind IG Chimeras, popping their rear armor with an FB, then mopping up the Guardsmen with your BCs. A group of 6 XV25s is marvelous for this task, especially when you have a squad of PFs on the board within LOS of the DS position.

The way I see it, make the 25's a FA FOC choice, drop the cost to 20-25 points, up BS to 4, and make them 2 wounds like the XV8.

All I've heard about Tau from the various forums is guess work at best or name dropping with no hint as to what that means.
Saying that Demiurg are in or that we get a "Mako" mean very little without depth. They might as well say that we will get the "floopity-floo" flier
If you look at more reasonable rumors you ear that Orks are getting a bomber-like craft, which means they have seen the model or something or atleast telling us it's function.
When I heard about the "Mako" all I thought was that who ever made this rumor just guessed that all Tau stuff is based off fish so Mako must sound good.
So when I read Tau rumors all I see as reliable is "No idea" or "2013 at best". Hell, we aren't even mentioned in any of the flier rumors.

Savageconvoy wrote:All I've heard about Tau from the various forums is guess work at best or name dropping with no hint as to what that means.
Saying that Demiurg are in or that we get a "Mako" mean very little without depth. They might as well say that we will get the "floopity-floo" flier
If you look at more reasonable rumors you ear that Orks are getting a bomber-like craft, which means they have seen the model or something or atleast telling us it's function.
When I heard about the "Mako" all I thought was that who ever made this rumor just guessed that all Tau stuff is based off fish so Mako must sound good.
So when I read Tau rumors all I see as reliable is "No idea" or "2013 at best". Hell, we aren't even mentioned in any of the flier rumors.

This +1.

As the rumors begin to flow in more and more, I'm thinking that June is looking like possibly Finecast updates for Tau, along with a host of others. That's where I think the June and Tau connection is.

As for flyers? Why would GW make something totally new for the Tau? I'd see them going forward with a plastic Barracuda. The design is already owned by GW, produced by FW, and has been featured in DoW as well, which seems somewhat counter-intuitive for GW to just make a totally new flyer for the Tau.

spectreoneone wrote:
The way I see it, make the 25's a FA FOC choice, drop the cost to 20-25 points, up BS to 4, and make them 2 wounds like the XV8.

I honestly don't have any problem with BS3 Stealth Suits, though I do think they all need access to an improved FB that is similar to a multi-melta.

And the stealth field needs to be improved. Don't allow enemies to change targets if they fail to see the suits. And maybe reduce the spotting distance to 2d6 * 2.

elrabin wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:
The way I see it, make the 25's a FA FOC choice, drop the cost to 20-25 points, up BS to 4, and make them 2 wounds like the XV8.

I honestly don't have any problem with BS3 Stealth Suits, though I do think they all need access to an improved FB that is similar to a multi-melta.

And the stealth field needs to be improved. Don't allow enemies to change targets if they fail to see the suits. And maybe reduce the spotting distance to 2d6 * 2.

I think the spotting distance is fine at 2d6*3. That averages out at 21" which gives you a 3" buffer beyond that to still be in JSJ range. You have to get really good at guesstimating distance but it works.

I think that if they don't get a BS increase then having the Burst Cannons be twin linked could be an alternative. Also being able to take Markerlights on all the team members, as opposed to just the Team Leader.

Wow, the rumors really have been coming out of the woodwork haven't they?

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Wow, the rumors really have been coming out of the woodwork haven't they?

Of course...with the looming release of 6th Ed. plus the fact that this year is the 25th anniversary of 40k, why wouldn't there be? Folks are scrambling to piece together every tidbit that trickles from GW.

Then again, this could be all part of GW's master plan to confound all of us and slap down something completely out of left field that none of the rumor mongers saw coming...

spectreoneone wrote:

Ledabot wrote:Um, they have gear to help them while they are far from the enemy. Why would a sinper rifle not be a good option in terms of fluff and actual playability? Lets face it. BCs are gack. They will never be truely effective against anything short of orks. You don't want stealthys to be close! you want them to camp on a ruin and snipe and markerlight the gack out fo things!

I disagree. The stealth field, while more effective outside of the effective range of the weapons, is designed to give it more survivability up closer. If you were to give it rail rifles, the enemy would potentially never have a chance to hit the suits (Rail rifles having a 36" range, night fighting rules confer a maximum visual distance of 36"). Add in JSJ, and you have an overpowered unit that could hit with anti-MEQ shots and potentially never be able to be fired upon, something that is, IMHO, broken. You'd see a lot of stealthsuit spam, with the potential of having up to 18 suits, and, assuming they maintain the current status quo of equipping alternate weapons, 6 rail rifles (Now, if they change that and allow all of the suits to equip the rail rifles, you have something really broken). I know that the rail rifles are only Heavy 1, but combining that weapon with the Relentless USR of the suits gives you 6 highly mobile anti-MEQ shots a turn, which can have a visible effect on the game.

I'm all for improving the Tau, but some things would just make the game even more unbalanced than it already is.

Really it makes no sence to waste such potential.

I understand spectres theory, and yes it sounds like a bitch to go up against, but equally I think I'd really like to.face off against something like that. And drop an orbital bombardement followed by hk missiles right on top of them.

BOOM!

Puscifer wrote:Personally, I cannot see them coming out in Finecast.

Are there any finecast/plastic hybrid kits?

To my knowledge there are none.

Plague Marines are plastic/FC hybrid.

A flier supplement would be cool, but it'd remove half the fun of an Eldar Corsairs army. The fact that the vehicles are so stupidly quick compared to everything else.

(No source for this but) Lets be logical about the Tau releases:
1) Most recent codices have had a flying unit. Harpy, Valkyrie, Storm Raven, Razorwing. We also have recurring rumours of {season} of Flyers. From this I believe we can extrapolate a Tau flyer, on the large oval base. A single-role gunship is most likely, though it is possible that we see a dual kit gunship/transport.

2) Tau now have some of the oldest plastic kits: Battlesuit, Fire Warrior, Devilish/Hammerhead, Kroot have not been redone since the release of the codex. The crisis suit is the most dated, and forms the basis for four options within the codex. The XV8 kit will be redone, possibly to make it look more like the Forgeworld kits, but more likely an even further evolved look (the forgeworld commander or broadsides). If the fluff continues as it is currently, we might see some of the current 'Commander-only' pieces make it into the new design.

All these sprues are relatively old and 'sparse' compared to new sprues. I don't think that FW will be redesigned, but I can see the sprue being recut to add more gear (esp markerlights and alternative helmets for a dual Pathfinder/FW kit).

3) Tau still have a few all-metal units. Pathfinders, Vespids, Krootox, Kroot Hounds. Pathfinders might make sense as a dual kit with fire warriors. Vespids will go to finecast. Krootox and Kroot Hounds IMO should be recut and put on the Kroot sprue in plastic. I believe Kroot Hounds must be the most expensive $ per point model in the game (feel free to prove me wrong) and their sales will tank even more in finecast. Similarly, Krootox don't have any real point and so should be recut in plastic and with alternate weapons options (heavy flamer) - although I wouldn't put it past GW to make the mistake here and try to charge me $30 for 12pts of hounds. Sniper teams also will go finecast.

Alternatively, Firewarriors stay as they are and we get a dual kit with pathfinders and some other, as-yet-unseen specialist squad: a special weapons team or a dedicated rail-rifle team.

4) The vehicles are still relatively well liked and have aged quite well. I don't see any changes here.

5) What happens to broadsides really depends on how the Crisis suits get redone. I suspect they will be in the same plastic kit as Crisis, done in such a way that they share as few components as possible and magnetization is impossible. They are a very high selling unit, and the straight lines of the railgun make more sense to be sculpted digitally in plastic.

6) Another elite kit, possibly XV9.

7) Finecast upgrade kits for a few Battlesuit characters. Experimental weapons and cool heads. Or possibly an entire kit.

8) Now the real speculation: alien auxiliaries. Demiurg and Nicassar are the existing races which haven't been represented yet. I think we might see a Nicassar character Psyker, a Kroot Shaper/Shaman character, both in finecast.

9) A full kit of plastic alien troops? Makes sense, but I have really no idea.

So we have a new vehicle kit, a new crisis kit, a new pathfinder kit, and a new alien kit. Add in a recut Kroot and Firewarrior kit and a bundle of finecast characters. seem like enough for a codex release?

WaaaaghLord wrote:
Plague Marines are plastic/FC hybrid.

The only plastic in those kits is the backpacks and the bases.

Trasvi wrote:(No source for this but) Lets be logical about the Tau releases:
...

So we have a new vehicle kit, a new crisis kit, a new pathfinder kit, and a new alien kit. Add in a recut Kroot and Firewarrior kit and a bundle of finecast characters. seem like enough for a codex release?

I think you've pretty much hit it.

We might see a Tetra kit in plastic, too. I'm hoping the putative flier will be an Orca gunship.

The codex doesn't need a lot of new units, though they will sell if they are any good. It needs a thorough revision of the rules and points costs.

Kilkrazy wrote:One of the big Tyranid models is mixed media -- plastic and Finecast.

I think that you're talking about the old HT, made with a FC Torso with a Monstrous Creature arms sprue.

I think...

Ledabot wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:

Ledabot wrote:Um, they have gear to help them while they are far from the enemy. Why would a sinper rifle not be a good option in terms of fluff and actual playability? Lets face it. BCs are gack. They will never be truely effective against anything short of orks. You don't want stealthys to be close! you want them to camp on a ruin and snipe and markerlight the gack out fo things!

I disagree. The stealth field, while more effective outside of the effective range of the weapons, is designed to give it more survivability up closer. If you were to give it rail rifles, the enemy would potentially never have a chance to hit the suits (Rail rifles having a 36" range, night fighting rules confer a maximum visual distance of 36"). Add in JSJ, and you have an overpowered unit that could hit with anti-MEQ shots and potentially never be able to be fired upon, something that is, IMHO, broken. You'd see a lot of stealthsuit spam, with the potential of having up to 18 suits, and, assuming they maintain the current status quo of equipping alternate weapons, 6 rail rifles (Now, if they change that and allow all of the suits to equip the rail rifles, you have something really broken). I know that the rail rifles are only Heavy 1, but combining that weapon with the Relentless USR of the suits gives you 6 highly mobile anti-MEQ shots a turn, which can have a visible effect on the game.

I'm all for improving the Tau, but some things would just make the game even more unbalanced than it already is.

Really it makes no sence to waste such potential.

In the long run, it does, IMHO. When you break it down, even if you discount all of the reasons I state the unit would be broken, it comes down to another simple fact: fluff-wise, can the XV25's motive and power systems handle any other weapons, or will the stealth fields still work? We'll probably agree to disagree on this one, but I firmly believe that adding all sorts of extras is just a bad idea.

Trasvi wrote:(No source for this but) Lets be logical about the Tau releases:
1) Most recent codices have had a flying unit. Harpy, Valkyrie, Storm Raven, Razorwing. We also have recurring rumours of {season} of Flyers. From this I believe we can extrapolate a Tau flyer, on the large oval base. A single-role gunship is most likely, though it is possible that we see a dual kit gunship/transport.

2) Tau now have some of the oldest plastic kits: Battlesuit, Fire Warrior, Devilish/Hammerhead, Kroot have not been redone since the release of the codex. The crisis suit is the most dated, and forms the basis for four options within the codex. The XV8 kit will be redone, possibly to make it look more like the Forgeworld kits, but more likely an even further evolved look (the forgeworld commander or broadsides). If the fluff continues as it is currently, we might see some of the current 'Commander-only' pieces make it into the new design.

All these sprues are relatively old and 'sparse' compared to new sprues. I don't think that FW will be redesigned, but I can see the sprue being recut to add more gear (esp markerlights and alternative helmets for a dual Pathfinder/FW kit).

3) Tau still have a few all-metal units. Pathfinders, Vespids, Krootox, Kroot Hounds. Pathfinders might make sense as a dual kit with fire warriors. Vespids will go to finecast. Krootox and Kroot Hounds IMO should be recut and put on the Kroot sprue in plastic. I believe Kroot Hounds must be the most expensive $ per point model in the game (feel free to prove me wrong) and their sales will tank even more in finecast. Similarly, Krootox don't have any real point and so should be recut in plastic and with alternate weapons options (heavy flamer) - although I wouldn't put it past GW to make the mistake here and try to charge me $30 for 12pts of hounds. Sniper teams also will go finecast.

Alternatively, Firewarriors stay as they are and we get a dual kit with pathfinders and some other, as-yet-unseen specialist squad: a special weapons team or a dedicated rail-rifle team.

4) The vehicles are still relatively well liked and have aged quite well. I don't see any changes here.

5) What happens to broadsides really depends on how the Crisis suits get redone. I suspect they will be in the same plastic kit as Crisis, done in such a way that they share as few components as possible and magnetization is impossible. They are a very high selling unit, and the straight lines of the railgun make more sense to be sculpted digitally in plastic.

6) Another elite kit, possibly XV9.

7) Finecast upgrade kits for a few Battlesuit characters. Experimental weapons and cool heads. Or possibly an entire kit.

8) Now the real speculation: alien auxiliaries. Demiurg and Nicassar are the existing races which haven't been represented yet. I think we might see a Nicassar character Psyker, a Kroot Shaper/Shaman character, both in finecast.

9) A full kit of plastic alien troops? Makes sense, but I have really no idea.

So we have a new vehicle kit, a new crisis kit, a new pathfinder kit, and a new alien kit. Add in a recut Kroot and Firewarrior kit and a bundle of finecast characters. seem like enough for a codex release?

I agree with most of this, just have a couple of points that I have a different view on.

With the flyer, I honestly see them bringing the Barracuda over. It's a pretty well-balanced vehicle, being armed with an ion cannon, two burst cannons, and a missile pod (I believe). Definitely strong in the anti-MEQ role with the ion cannon, and it can potentially pop light armor as well. As for the XV9, I don't see it moving into the elite slot, as it is currently a FA choice. Then again, I would prefer the XV9 to be elite, and have the XV25 move to FA. Just my thought.

The barracuda would, indeed, be the most logical flyer.
It's, although, quite expensive.
When the super heavy tanks from the imperial guard were introduced to wh40k, they went from around 100 quids to 70 quids, the barracuda in currently at 70 pounds on the FW store. Considering that it'll be benefit the same discount, we could expect a price of 50 pounds, which is more expensive than the other GW flyers.
So, even if it's the most logical flyer, I would be expecting something else, maybe more transport oriented, but with an option of adding some fire power.

Trasvi wrote:
So we have a new vehicle kit, a new crisis kit, a new pathfinder kit, and a new alien kit. Add in a recut Kroot and Firewarrior kit and a bundle of finecast characters. seem like enough for a codex release?

Seems logical. Aren't the sniper teams already finecast?

I'd also like to see the TX-42 and turret options make it into the new codex...but now I'm wishlisting.

TMonkeyGuru wrote:
...Tau are supposed to be a mainly shoot army with no chance to survive at close combat, so if that's how things are supposed to be at least they need to be a real danger at long range, with the current codex there's a lot of things that doesn't work anymore, for example XV25 are a BS 3(less than 50% chance to hit)

BS 3 is not less than 50% to hit, it is EXACTLY 50% chance to hit (1,2,3 on a d6 are miss, 4,5,6 are a hit)

Kaisan wrote:The barracuda would, indeed, be the most logical flyer.
It's, although, quite expensive.
When the super heavy tanks from the imperial guard were introduced to wh40k, they went from around 100 quids to 70 quids, the barracuda in currently at 70 pounds on the FW store. Considering that it'll be benefit the same discount, we could expect a price of 50 pounds, which is more expensive than the other GW flyers.
So, even if it's the most logical flyer, I would be expecting something else, maybe more transport oriented, but with an option of adding some fire power.

I'd like a transport flyer too. Something like carrying 12 fire warriors or 3 Crisis Suits. Provide an alternative method to Deep Strike for getting suits behind enemy tanks quickly. For weaponry I'd say Smart Missile System, 2 Missile Pods and some twin linked Burst Cannons. So it can lay down a lot of anti-infantry shots with some light armour capabilities in the form of the missile pods.

Possibly give it the option to sacrifice transport capabilities to carry some form of railgun technology.

As silly as it sounds, I think it's more likely we would see the Remora Stealth Drone Fighters as a Codex "Flyer" choice for the Tau.

Open up various options for guns and you've got something kinda nice there.

I don't think that if the tau empire gets a flyer it would be the remora drone. GW introduced for flyers (and for the trygon/mawloc and the dreadknight) a new kind of base that they still have to secure a return on... and I don't really see remora on such bases, as a matter of fact, on the FW website, they're presented on simple flying bases...
Also, since I mention the dreadknight, and knowing that taus have the battlesuits, we could expect a bigger one, some kind of titan... but i'm just dreaming

Its been stated before but I'll reitirate, GW doesn't really redo any ForgeWorld stuff. They don't like stepping on each others toes as to cannibalize sales, if the Tau get a flyer it will be something brand new. I'm going with the "new" Mako theory... or whatever they choose to name it, if it exists.

ajefferism wrote:IGW doesn't really redo any ForgeWorld stuff.

Valkyrie & Manticore off the top of my head.

Therion wrote:

ajefferism wrote:IGW doesn't really redo any ForgeWorld stuff.

Valkyrie & Manticore off the top of my head.

They only did it for the Guard codex, they didn't want guard players to be forced to by FW instead of their own models made of standard plastic.

@ beginning of thread:

Technically, the Emperor's Champion is a Resin/Plastic hybrid. His backpack is Plastic.

Actually the piranha was originally a FW model.

Ditto the Sky Ray IIRC

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Therion wrote:

ajefferism wrote:IGW doesn't really redo any ForgeWorld stuff.

Valkyrie & Manticore off the top of my head.

They only did it for the Guard codex, they didn't want guard players to be forced to by FW instead of their own models made of standard plastic.

Counter-point to that idea: Hydra, Griffon (thought it goes both ways), Bombard.

Counter to ajefferism: Sky Ray, Piranha, various Leman Russ variants, the aforementioned Valkyrie & Manticore, Empire Demigryphons...

Since this thread has gone more to speculation and discussion due to lack of substantial rumors, I will lock it up for now, pending something a bit jucier from the rumor-scape.