Apple (NasdaqGS: AAPL - news) 's latest profits smashed Wall Street's expectations as demand for the iPhone and iPad surged.
Profits in the first three months of the year reached $11.6bn (£7.2bn), 94pc higher than in the same quarter of last year and dwarfing the $9.4bn that analysts had forecast.
The iPad and the iPhone once again shone as Apple found new buyers of the gadgets across the world. iPhone sales soared 88pc to 35.1m, while those for the iPad more than doubled to 11.8m.
The results were enough to drive Apple shares 5pc higher in extended trading in New York (Frankfurt: A0DKRK - news) .
Analysts said the performance will go a long way to ease a cluster of concerns that had seen Apple's shares fall 12pc in the past fortnight.
"Apple blows through our projections," said Brian White, an analyst at Topeka Capital Markets. "Apple fever rocks on."
International sales accounted for 64pc of the $39.2bn of revenue that Apple (Xetra: 865985 - news) generated in the quarter, with chief executive Tim Cook describing the demand in China as "mind boggling". Chinese appetite for the iPhone - Apple's most profitable product - helped push the company's gross margin to 47.4pc in the quarter from 41.4pc a year earlier.
Long Apple's manufacturing base, China is now playing an increasingly central role as a source of demand as the country's middle-class expands. However, Mr Cook, who took over as chief executive from the company's co-founder, Steve Jobs, last August, sought to play down fears that Apple's iPhone may face increasing headwinds in the US.
Before the release of the results after the stock market's close, Apple's shares closed down 2pc at $560.28 as investors worried whether America's largest phone companies will continue to maintain the generous subsidies they provide to the iPhone.
"The vast majority of carriers want to provide what their customers want to buy," said Mr Cook. "iPhone is the best smartphone on the planet to entice a customer to upgrade from a regular phone to a smartphone."
Smartphones typically generate more revenue for phone companies over the course of a customer's contract.
At 7.7m, Apple sold more iPods in the quarter than forecast, but sales of Mac computers came in half a million shy of Wall Street's expectations of 4.5m.
The quarter saw Apple reduce the price of the iPad2 following the introduction of the new iPad in the middle of March. Mr Cook said that lowering the price of the older version of the iPad had seen a "marked change in demand" in certain countries but that it was too early to draw conclusions about future pricing.
I personally think its ridiculous a company can make so much profit £7.2 billion in 3 months, what do they need that much money for?
As a person who quite likes Apple products, I try and justify the pricing because I enjoy the product. As obviously so many people do, I suppose iPads aren't ridiculously priced compared to high end Samsung and HTC tablets, but iPhones are very expensive (contracts they all seem to be at least £10 cheaper than HTC, Samsung, Nokia etc high end phones). And the Macs are very expensive as well. Surely, making so much profit, they should be reducing their prices. When people have less and less money, countries in billions of debts, starving children in Africa and all that, how can individual companies justify making so much profit? Or am I overreacting?
I know how it works, I just think its ridiculous that companies are allowed to operate that way. But I suppose if were all stupid enough to allow it to continue, nothings going to change...
rodgers37 wrote:I know how it works, I just think its ridiculous that companies are allowed to operate that way. But I suppose if were all stupid enough to allow it to continue, nothings going to change...
Why is it rediculous? Why is it stupid? Why have you not taken a basic economics course?
Either apple products are filled with heroin and they're actually the most successful drug ring on the planet,
Or they're trying to resurect a Great Old One
But they'll continue like that until the market goes Frack you, as do most companies, That quantitiy of money astounds me, you could probably drown a town if you converted that into notes.
rodgers37 wrote:I know how it works, I just think its ridiculous that companies are allowed to operate that way. But I suppose if were all stupid enough to allow it to continue, nothings going to change...
Exactly. As the consumers that purchase their products, we allow them to operate the way they do.
Demand for Apple products is a bit inelastic. Apple's marketing has done a good job of positioning the brand as the premium brand. Their high price is part of the marketing. If you want the best product, you go to Apple. After all, we all know that the more expensive a product is, the better it is!
Apple are a distortion of the market. For as long as people put rationality to one side and pay through the nose for a shiny sticker, these things will happen.
rodgers37 wrote:I know how it works, I just think its ridiculous that companies are allowed to operate that way. But I suppose if were all stupid enough to allow it to continue, nothings going to change...
Why is it rediculous? Why is it stupid? Why have you not taken a basic economics course?
Its ridiculous and stupid because a company that produces products (especially unnecessary ones) does not need that much profit, what are they going to do with it? How much of that goes back into developing new products? Obviously they should be making profit, they are a business, thats how it works but why does Apple need to make $11 billion profit in 3 months? All it means, is that the people who own the biggest % of shares in Apple get richer. they could half the price of their products. And still make a very decent profit.
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Chowderhead wrote:Oh my god! A popular company is making money!
Sound the alarms! Man the weapons, men! Prepare to sink the idea of supply and demand!
Thats not really necessary... Why is it that so many people on the internet (a lot more than in actual real life conversations) have to resort to sarcasm? Is it something to do with Apples profit?
rodgers37 wrote:I know how it works, I just think its ridiculous that companies are allowed to operate that way. But I suppose if were all stupid enough to allow it to continue, nothings going to change...
Why is it rediculous? Why is it stupid? Why have you not taken a basic economics course?
It wouldn't be ridiculous if he had ten thousand shares in apple.
Envy seems to be the number one motivator for pinkos. I personally dont buy apple, but my brother does and I play with his I-pad and phone. They make good popular products, hence they can charge plenty, but people are willing to pay it, so bam, they make gak loads of money, thats the point in starting a business isnt it?
The Labour voting class-warrior types absolutely hate the wealthy for no apparent reason at all (All of them, even their kids. Like you choose to be born to wealthy parents) hate the Royals, hate the fat cats, hate the politicians even If you don't know who they are. Half of the haters of George Osbourne wouldn't be able to pick him out of a line-up.
It all boils down to good old fashioned envy. Like they would give it all away if they had the money! They would hoard it like a protoss mine drone in a mineral field. Why do they covet it so much then? Im not rich and you dont see me hating. Good luck to them.
Oh no hang on, I do hate. I hate my fellow lower class people.
I think it was Sid said, "I've met the man in the street, and he's a "
There was a news report I heard on the radio a week or so ago. It was about how...rome or romania where buying iphones in droves, but the country was suffering from massive poverty issues. People would buy iphones before they would pay rent, and all that. All because in whichever country it was, the inhabitants were big on image. Homeless people with iphones.
As long as there's people stupid enough to pay high prices, those prices will always stay high. Why would they want to drop prices and appeal to you when there's plenty of people in line waiting to throw down three or four times more money than you want to? The problem isn't the company, it's the people.
Chowderhead wrote:Oh my god! A popular company is making money!
Sound the alarms! Man the weapons, men! Prepare to sink the idea of supply and demand!
Thats not really necessary... Why is it that so many people on the internet (a lot more than in actual real life conversations) have to resort to sarcasm? Is it something to do with Apples profit?
It's due to the fact that you hate a company because they make money in a capitalist economy. Which, may I add, is very daft. Very, very daft.
Its ridiculous and stupid because a company that produces products (especially unnecessary ones) does not need that much profit, what are they going to do with it? How much of that goes back into developing new products?
You’re right. Of course, its stupid that you have that thing you’re posting on. You don’t need that. You should send it to me instead.
Obviously they should be making profit, they are a business, thats how it works but why does Apple need to make $11 billion profit in 3 months?
They are going for the record. I’ve heard they intend to use their profits to restart the Gong Show. Have you seen the Gong Show? Would you like to know more about the Gong Show.
All it means, is that the people who own the biggest % of shares in Apple get richer. they could half the price of their products. And still make a very decent profit.
See mommies and daddies need money to support their sniveling little crybaby children so they invest in companies that make money and give that money to their investors. If it weren’t for Apple, millions of sniveling little brats who should be working for a living, would actually have to get off their butts and find gainful employment. Won’t you think of the children???
Thats not really necessary... Why is it that so many people on the internet (a lot more than in actual real life conversations) have to resort to sarcasm? Is it something to do with Apples profit?
Because in Real Life ™ there is such a thing as a stupid question.
rodgers37 wrote:Its ridiculous and stupid because a company that produces products (especially unnecessary ones) does not need that much profit, what are they going to do with it? How much of that goes back into developing new products? Obviously they should be making profit, they are a business, thats how it works but why does Apple need to make $11 billion profit in 3 months? All it means, is that the people who own the biggest % of shares in Apple get richer. they could half the price of their products. And still make a very decent profit.
What are they going to do with it? Primarily Apple has sat upon it. They only recently paid a dividend to shareholders. They are undoubtedly a cash-flush organization.
As to why Apple needs to make $11 billion in 3 months... ??? What else would you have them do? Their target demographic is fairly affluent and Apple products like iPhone/iPad are, imx, better than competitors' products. They took market share from RIM by being a lot better than Blackberry and basically invented the tablet market. Apple has continuously invented products that consumers didn't even know they wanted; ipods, phones that are basically computers, computers that are basically accessories. They have been successful because they've been innovative, even within an innovative industry. That's why they can make so much.
Seek to be like Apple, not to be entitled to Apple.
Chowderhead wrote:Oh my god! A popular company is making money!
Sound the alarms! Man the weapons, men! Prepare to sink the idea of supply and demand!
Thats not really necessary... Why is it that so many people on the internet (a lot more than in actual real life conversations) have to resort to sarcasm? Is it something to do with Apples profit?
It's due to the fact that you hate a company because they make money in a capitalist economy. Which, may I add, is very daft. Very, very daft.
I never said its ridiculous they make money, please find where I said that. Its the huge amount of money, when every country is in debt, there are so many people even in 'western civilisation' who are very poor, out of work, out of home. What are Apple, and the rich people with lots of shares, going to do with that much money? Ok its peoples fault for spending so much money on their products, but I thought the idea of business was to try and offer the best products and the best prices, to make a profit, not just make a good product at a ridiculous price. HTC and Samsung (for example) make phones just as good as the iPhone, and are much cheaper. When I got my last phone, a Sony Ericsson, there top model last May, new and it was £15 cheaper a month than the cheapest iPhone contract (which possibly also included paying for the phone as well).
I have no problem with companies making money. But £7/$11 billion in 3 months... if they even carry on at half that profit for the rest of the year thats another $15 million. Do the people with lots of shares, really need a their share of $26 billion?
There is obviously an order, some companies have more money, some people have more money. Why is it so wrong to question that? What is right about Apple having $11 billion in the bank after 3 months?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thank you for all your sarcastic responses, what a fantastic bunch you are.
I didn't realise your not allowed to consider a company making more money than they could ever need is slightly wrong.
And I didn't say the products are stupid, I said unnecessary, Apple is an unnecessary company. None of their products do anything anyone needs that other cheaper and just as good products always do.
And Necroshea, referencing that news report, its right. I bought an iMac because I used one at Uni for editing, because they have loads of them. I then bought one because I could just about afford to. We all buy warhammer because we can just about afford to. But as soon as things are tight money wise, these are the things people sell. Its nice having big shiny things, and Apple know that.
I never said its ridiculous they make money, please find where I said that. Its the huge amount of money, when every country is in debt, there are so many people even in 'western civilisation' who are very poor, out of work, out of home.
And?
What are Apple, and the rich people with lots of shares, going to do with that much money?
I addressed that. Its so kids like you don’t have to get jobs and serve people like me my freaking burger and fries like previous generations.
Ok its peoples fault for spending so much money on their products, but I thought the idea of business was to try and offer the best products and the best prices, to make a profit, not just make a good product at a ridiculous price.
They do offer the best product at the best price, until someone else comes along and beats them. This is how it works. Again, economics is your friend. Read a book.
HTC and Samsung (for example) make phones just as good as the iPhone, and are much cheaper. When I got my last phone, a Sony Ericsson, there top model last May, new and it was £15 cheaper a month than the cheapest iPhone contract (which possibly also included paying for the phone as well).
Awesome for you. Welcome to free enterprise. Others prefer to purchase Apple. Why did you not send this money to the government to help reduce the national debt? What are you some kind of 1%er? After all every country is in debt, there are so many people even in western civilization who are very poor.
I have no problem with companies making money. But £7/$11 billion in 3 months... if they even carry on at half that profit for the rest of the year thats another $15 million. Do the people with lots of shares, really need a their share of $26 billion?
Yes, of course they do. Do you need your cell phone? Why? Don't you know the country is in debt?
There is obviously an order, some companies have more money, some people have more money. Why is it so wrong to question that?
Because it reveals ignorance of basic education.
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And Necroshea, referencing that news report, its right. I bought an iMac because I used one at Uni for editing, because they have loads of them. I then bought one because I could just about afford to.
Wait so you bought a Apple product and now you're whining about it?
As my Wife would say "quit being a and put on your big girl underpants."
rodgers37 wrote:
And I didn't say the products are stupid, I said unnecessary, Apple is an unnecessary company. None of their products do anything anyone needs
Mate, how gak do you want our lives to be!?
NOTHING is necessary outside of food, water and shelter. Stop companies from making "unnecessary" gak, and life starts to suck.
We have good aulity of life, thus we spend spare cash on unnecessary things for fun. So what?
And the ones that make the "funnest" (Ironically it was Mr Jobs who invented that gak word) make the most cash.
Whats wrong with that? Is 40K, video games, and ice cream necessary?
I never said its ridiculous they make money, please find where I said that. Its the huge amount of money, when every country is in debt, there are so many people even in 'western civilisation' who are very poor, out of work, out of home.
And?
What are Apple, and the rich people with lots of shares, going to do with that much money?
I addressed that. Its so kids like you don’t have to get jobs and serve people like me my freaking burger and fries like previous generations.
Ok its peoples fault for spending so much money on their products, but I thought the idea of business was to try and offer the best products and the best prices, to make a profit, not just make a good product at a ridiculous price.
They do offer the best product at the best price, until someone else comes along and beats them. This is how it works. Again, economics is your friend. Read a book.
HTC and Samsung (for example) make phones just as good as the iPhone, and are much cheaper. When I got my last phone, a Sony Ericsson, there top model last May, new and it was £15 cheaper a month than the cheapest iPhone contract (which possibly also included paying for the phone as well).
Awesome for you. Welcome to free enterprise. Others prefer to purchase Apple. Why did you not send this money to the government to help reduce the national debt? What are you some kind of 1%er? After all every country is in debt, there are so many people even in western civilization who are very poor.
I have no problem with companies making money. But £7/$11 billion in 3 months... if they even carry on at half that profit for the rest of the year thats another $15 million. Do the people with lots of shares, really need a their share of $26 billion?
Yes, of course they do. Do you need your cell phone? Why? Don't you know the country is in debt?
There is obviously an order, some companies have more money, some people have more money. Why is it so wrong to question that?
Because it reveals ignorance of basic education.
Few things wrong with that, firstly 'Kids like me' NO that is so far from the truth, you don't have the first clue about me. My parents are not rich, the only reason I could afford an iMac and a £25 a month phone contract, is because my Grandad who had a management job with a removal company for a long time, had a good pension scheme and could afford to start savings accounts for me and my siblings, so when we turn 18 (so far only me) we get the money, which was a nice amount to have at that age, and then starting Uni, because my family is poor I get the maximum grant and loan available (plus fees paid), which I have to pay back when I get a job afterwards (and I had a job before Uni, and tried to get one last summer, haven't tried during term time because I like to go home as often as possible to watch Norwich, and pretty much any part time job I could get wouldn't allow me to do that).
And as for sending money to the government, thats not the peoples job. But big organisations, wether it be someone like Apple, or a bank. Should have a responsibility to help out. In a way I think its silly the amount of money I get for being at Uni, but then realistically its not that much, i'd get more working. And in fact I kind of wish I had just got a job after sixth form, and not bothered going to Uni. But its not all that easy, as I know from three of my friends experiences. I only got two interviews for part time jobs after applying for quite a few, and thats with 2 years retail experience, they had nothing.
And are you really comparing me having a mobile phone, to very rich people getting even more money?
Ignorance of basic education? Well sorry, I wasn't taught to accept rich people become more and more rich, while poor people become more and more poor. I hope you are one of these rich people, otherwise your opinions make no sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mattyrm wrote:
rodgers37 wrote:
And I didn't say the products are stupid, I said unnecessary, Apple is an unnecessary company. None of their products do anything anyone needs
Mate, how gak do you want our lives to be!?
NOTHING is necessary outside of food, water and shelter. Stop companies from making "unnecessary" gak, and life starts to suck.
We have good aulity of life, thus we spend spare cash on unnecessary things for fun. So what?
And the ones that make the "funnest" (Ironically it was Mr Jobs who invented that gak word) make the most cash.
Whats wrong with that? Is 40K, video games, and ice cream necessary?
I think you got me slightly wrong, I just mean't that the products Apple provide, are essentially made in the same form (slightly different) by other companies, and these products are just as good, but much cheaper. You don't see WIndows complaining about having no money, or Samsung, or HTC, or anyone like that.
I really don't know if the point I was trying to make is coming across properly, since people seem to think i'm going against 'basic education' or fundamental economic rules, or banning unnecessary items. I just think, and surely this isn't too extreme, that $11 billion profit, for one company, in 3 months is a little excessive...
Automatically Appended Next Post: And no Frazzled, i'm not whine about the product. Where did I moan or whine about the product?
Wow the ignorance is even higher than anticipated. So you're really saying you're bellyaching even though you're living off the taxpayer and your gramps. You have the nerve to blow them of dalliances like cell phones and IMACs?
In the words of the Immortal Bard: Have you no decency sir?
Sending money to the government is not the people's job? You've never paid taxes? You said you worked before. You're a liar and you never worked, ignorant (in not looking at your pay slips), or you worked in criminal activities in a cash only environment in which case I salute you.
EDIT I did peg it though, sounds like you're not out of high school yet.
And no Frazzled, i'm not whine about the product. Where did I moan or whine about the product?
No one said you did. You whined about the company, YET YOU BOUGHT THEIR STUFF!
Seriously you're just trolling now right? Please tell me you're just trolling.
frgsinwntr wrote:If you hate capitolism... stop buying popular gadgets... if you don't... you're part of the problem
Does anyone NEED an iphone? NO... but its nice to have one....
Does anyone need an Ipad? HELL NO... but its nice to have one...
I don't hate capitalism, I don't hate anything.
Why is it so ridiculous that I think one individual company gaining $11 billion in 3 months is slightly off? Especially after someone has said they just sit on their profit, and since i'm fairly sure they've pretty much always been making profit, they must have quite a bit of money in the bank...
frgsinwntr wrote:If you hate capitolism... stop buying popular gadgets... if you don't... you're part of the problem
Does anyone NEED an iphone? NO... but its nice to have one....
Does anyone need an Ipad? HELL NO... but its nice to have one...
I don't hate capitalism, I don't hate anything.
Why is it so ridiculous that I think one individual company gaining $11 billion in 3 months is slightly off? Especially after someone has said they just sit on their profit, and since i'm fairly sure they've pretty much always been making profit, they must have quite a bit of money in the bank...
rodgers37 wrote:
Few things wrong with that, firstly 'Kids like me' NO that is so far from the truth, you don't have the first clue about me. My parents are not rich, the only reason I could afford an iMac and a £25 a month phone contract, is because my Grandad who had a management job with a removal company for a long time, had a good pension scheme and could afford to start savings accounts for me and my siblings, so when we turn 18 (so far only me) we get the money, which was a nice amount to have at that age, and then starting Uni, because my family is poor I get the maximum grant and loan available (plus fees paid), which I have to pay back when I get a job afterwards (and I had a job before Uni, and tried to get one last summer, haven't tried during term time because I like to go home as often as possible to watch Norwich, and pretty much any part time job I could get wouldn't allow me to do that).
And as for sending money to the government, thats not the peoples job. But big organisations, wether it be someone like Apple, or a bank. Should have a responsibility to help out. In a way I think its silly the amount of money I get for being at Uni, but then realistically its not that much, i'd get more working. And in fact I kind of wish I had just got a job after sixth form, and not bothered going to Uni. But its not all that easy, as I know from three of my friends experiences. I only got two interviews for part time jobs after applying for quite a few, and thats with 2 years retail experience, they had nothing.
And are you really comparing me having a mobile phone, to very rich people getting even more money?
Ignorance of basic education? Well sorry, I wasn't taught to accept rich people become more and more rich, while poor people become more and more poor. I hope you are one of these rich people, otherwise your opinions make no sense.
Seriously, you must be trolling.
The big companies are paying taxes that make it possible for you to get your maximum grant and maximum fees paid. Incidentally I didn't go to University, and considering the primary person that benefits from said education is you (You will likely go on to earn more than me) I disagree with the tax payer forking out to pay for you. If you can afford your Leet Apple products, then you shouldn't have got a grant. Use Grandpa's money to pay for your education.
The system works. The big companies pay taxes and the taxes get spend on kids like you who can afford to buy apple and go to Uni, and "Not try" for a job because you like to watch Norwich!
I didnt go to Uni because I only had a gruff single parent Dad, so I started work at 15, joined the RM as a teenager and cracked on with my life but you don't see me whinging about it. If I never wind up going to Uni its cos I'm lazy and I enjoy my quality of life as is, nobody is to blame but me.
I mean, Ive always had a job, but I could have got a second job and paid for more essential things, but I like watching football instead so screw getting another job. I mean, they don't work two or three jobs in Africa because they like to watch football as well.
Basically, you ARE spoilt regardless of how you look at it. Most people in civilised nations are. Even I was a little spoiled, I always got a birthday present and an easter egg. Some people work 18 hours a day and push 3 jobs, but you have the luxury of not trying very hard because you like watching football...
Frazzled wrote:Wow the ignorance is even higher than anticipated. So you're really saying you're bellyaching even though you're living off the taxpayer and your gramps. You have the nerve to blow them of dalliances like cell phones and IMACs?
In the words of the Immortal Bard: Have you no decency sir?
Sendin money to the government is not the people's job? You've never paid taxes? You said you worked before. You're a liar and you never worked, ignorant (in not looking at your pay slips), or you worked in criminal activities in a cash only environment in which case I salute you.
Sending money in the way you suggested, instead of paying for my phone.
I had a part time job, working for my step-dad earning under the amount you have to earn to pay tax on your earnings. I don't have pay slips because I was paid in cash, but he has all the financial ins and outs done correctly and legally. I would love a job, like most people without a job i've applied for plenty, I wanted to go to University because I thought it would be beneficial, I couldn't do that and not have the financial support. I had not that large amount (£2-3000) from my Grandad half of which is still in savings until I learn to drive.
Your really over exaggerating everything I say, i'm not having some huge moan about capitalism, or rich people. Just that I think $11 billion profit for one company which could easily afford to lower the price (even by 1/4, it'd still be more expensive than everything else). I'm not ignorant, and I don't appreciate being insulted by people who don't have the first clue about me, my life or my family on the internet. I have not personally insulted you, and i'd really appreciate if you wouldn't me. I quite like this forum and I don't want it ruined because you have the idea stuck in your head that i'm ignorant. ANd you'll probably have a moan about that as well, saying i'm overacting, well maybe I am, but i've got my own reasons to, and your not going to change my basic personality.
Well, rodgers37 has convinced me. Profits are bad.
To the barricades, comrades! We fight for the proletariat! Down with bourgeoisie! The revolution has begun! The streets shall run red with their blood tonight!
Frazzled wrote:Wow the ignorance is even higher than anticipated. So you're really saying you're bellyaching even though you're living off the taxpayer and your gramps. You have the nerve to blow them of dalliances like cell phones and IMACs?
In the words of the Immortal Bard: Have you no decency sir?
Sendin money to the government is not the people's job? You've never paid taxes? You said you worked before. You're a liar and you never worked, ignorant (in not looking at your pay slips), or you worked in criminal activities in a cash only environment in which case I salute you.
Sending money in the way you suggested, instead of paying for my phone.
I had a part time job, working for my step-dad earning under the amount you have to earn to pay tax on your earnings. I don't have pay slips because I was paid in cash, but he has all the financial ins and outs done correctly and legally. I would love a job, like most people without a job i've applied for plenty, I wanted to go to University because I thought it would be beneficial, I couldn't do that and not have the financial support. I had not that large amount (£2-3000) from my Grandad half of which is still in savings until I learn to drive.
Your really over exaggerating everything I say, i'm not having some huge moan about capitalism, or rich people. Just that I think $11 billion profit for one company which could easily afford to lower the price (even by 1/4, it'd still be more expensive than everything else). I'm not ignorant, and I don't appreciate being insulted by people who don't have the first clue about me, my life or my family on the internet. I have not personally insulted you, and i'd really appreciate if you wouldn't me. I quite like this forum and I don't want it ruined because you have the idea stuck in your head that i'm ignorant. ANd you'll probably have a moan about that as well, saying i'm overacting, well maybe I am, but i've got my own reasons to, and your not going to change my basic personality.
Well you're ignorant, trolling, or something. YOU BOUGHT THEIR STUFF.
"Crack costs way too much. There's no reason it should cost so much." Lights up a crack pipe.
ok...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grakmar wrote:Well, rodgers37 has convinced me. Profits are bad.
To the barricades, comrades! We fight for the proletariat! Down with bourgeoisie! The revolution has begun! The streets shall run red with their blood tonight!
I'll bring the popcorn. From each and his ability to each and his need!
I'm not trolling. I have never and will never, its pathetic.
Fine the system works, i'm wrong. Doesn't mean you all have to be so sarcastic and insulting about it.
And I don't know if I will go on to earn more than you, maybe i'm useless and know nothing. In fact I probably am.
I bought one apple product, from one savings account my Grandad set up. He doesn't have infinite money, he worked as a manager for a removal company and just saved his money and bought shares wisely.
I never said I'm not spoilt, i'm very gracious and know i'm privileged to have what I have. I have tried for jobs, I had a paper round (I know not a proper job) as soon as I was 13, I worked for my step-dad because he needed someone cheap and reliable to work him because the store he ran was open from 9/10AM-9/10PM three days a week, but since he had to give up on that, he has had jobs with not very good shifts (A security job which involved working 7 12 hour shifts, with 3/4 days off, 4 nights on, 3 days on, and then vice versa).
Seriously, if you offered me any job now, the chance to go back and just get that job rather than start Uni, i'd take it. It hasn't been the best experience of my life, to be honest I preferred working. I was only officially working something like 10 hours, I was also at Sixth Form. But I was there from 3/4 after Sixth form on Thursday and Friday until 9/10 and all day Saturday and Sunday. And occasionally helped out Wednesday evening as well.
I'm not saying i'm hard done by, or deserve better. I'm not saying i'm a wonderful person who makes all the right choices. But really, your making me feel useless and pathetic, and if you knew me personally you'd know how that makes me feel. I would normally just to try ignore anything like that on the internet, because you don't know me, but I have problems at the moment (which aren't important to anyone else I know, and aren't even tiny problems compared a hell of a lot more people) and I just don't think its right i'm being singled out like that because I think Apple make a little bit too much money (and that all it is, a little bit, but a little bit of $11 billion is still a fair chunk, I didn't say Apple should charge cost price for their products) And i'm not saying any of that to benefit me personally. I don't care if an iMac is £1000 or £200, i'm probably not going to get another one for a very long time, I bought this one as a long term computer, and won't be replacing it (or sharing its user time) with anything else until it no longer works. And since I don't tend to break electronic products, it should be a while.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I never said profits are bad. I never said Apple are bad. It was purely a comment saying $11 billion seems like quite a lot of profit for 3 months. I bought one apple product because I had enough money to do so at the time.
Welcome to OT, rodgers.
People will read what you say, decide you actually meant something completely different, then belittle and insult you based on their own imaginary argument.
Don't know what else you expected on an off-topic forum on a site devoted to a board game that revolves around rolling dice. Peoples' reading/social skills aren't all that.
Well in your defense, so far you've been mostly a taker. When you make money and the government delares you a giver and starts taking your stuff, and other people say you don't dsever your stuff, your views will change. Its the nature of things.
Think of this as a teaching moment. Get the to a library and look up the following persons' writings:
John Locke
Adam Smith
Milton Friedman
Bernard Keynes
Karl Marx
Mao Tse Tung
even that mouth breather Robert Reich.
That should give you a series of differing views on economics.
Frazzled wrote:"Crack costs way too much. There's no reason it should cost so much." Lights up a crack pipe.
...looks at collection of Games Workshop products.
Sorry, what were you saying?
Mate, its funny because I was talking to Albatross about this, and we mentioned crack. You know.. the whole love/hate thing.
I have covertly been trying to build up a portfolio of people that needlessly rage and gate on GW to the point where I think they have mental issues, and I think out of the top 5 biggest nutters on the board Ive coaxed the numbers out of over a period of months, not a one of them owns less than about 10,000 points worth of models.
The crack analogy seems to be perfectly apt. The more you love something, the more you despise it, and thus, perhaps you despise yourself?
As an owner of maybe 3000 points and not much else.. I'm somewhat alarmed by their behaviour.
And then up pops "Ive got an Imac... oh and an Iphone... but I truly hates them!"
My hypothesis bears fruit!
I think it deserves a poll, a sort of, number of GW points owned to hatred ratio, but I dont trust the statistics if my subjects are aware I am monitoring them...
I'll sell everything I own, and get a loan from an evil bank to back all the money i've had from the taxpayers. Give the rest to charity, then work at least 3 jobs, preferably really hard and/or disgusting ones no one really wants or deserves to do to pay back that loan. And then i'll go join an African tribe, if they'll let me in, they probably won't because i'm ignorant, stupid and a troll.
Would that somewhat help the problem at hand here? (the problem being me of course...)
rodgers37 wrote:I never said profits are bad. I never said Apple are bad. It was purely a comment saying $11 billion seems like quite a lot of profit for 3 months.
You were saying that if a company turns a very large profit (like Apple has recently), they should start giving away money.
We agreed, and took up arms to fight the Tsar's regime.
I'll sell everything I own, and get a loan from an evil bank to back all the money i've had from the taxpayers. Give the rest to charity, then work at least 3 jobs, preferably really hard and/or disgusting ones no one really wants or deserves to do to pay back that loan. And then i'll go join an African tribe, if they'll let me in, they probably won't because i'm ignorant, stupid and a troll.
Would that somewhat help the problem at hand here? (the problem being me of course...)
Sorry I'd rather hire a hard working immigrant. they work cheaper.
And then up pops "Ive got an Imac... oh and an Iphone... but I truly hates them!"
I never said that, or anything like it. I also don't have an iPhone, and will never buy one.
Stop making things up.
The only thing I have an issue with, not even an issue, just a query into the rightness/sensibleness is the company making $11 billion profit. I didn't say I hate Apple, I didn't say profits are bad, I didn't say any of the things people are accusing me of saying.
I'll sell everything I own, and get a loan from an evil bank to back all the money i've had from the taxpayers. Give the rest to charity, then work at least 3 jobs, preferably really hard and/or disgusting ones no one really wants or deserves to do to pay back that loan. And then i'll go join an African tribe, if they'll let me in, they probably won't because i'm ignorant, stupid and a troll.
Would that somewhat help the problem at hand here? (the problem being me of course...)
You dont think your premise was daft though? You own several apple things, but dont think they should be allowed to charge you alot for them?
Do you own a bonkers amount of GW models and hate them too?
rodgers37 wrote:I never said profits are bad. I never said Apple are bad. It was purely a comment saying $11 billion seems like quite a lot of profit for 3 months.
You were saying that if a company turns a very large profit (like Apple has recently), they should start giving away money.
We agreed, and took up arms to fight the Tsar's regime.
I don't think I said that either. But hey, what ever. Clearly the actual words written down on the internet don't mean anything, just look at who started the topic, get the general jist of what the might be suggesting and start making things up.
I was questioning the amount of profit, not saying they should give it away, for a company who is well known (and hated by some) for having very expensive products. Yes I have bought one of their products myself, but then I didn't know how much money they made, I was under the impression barley anyone buys iMacs, and this was a couple of years ago, so iPhones weren't as big/popular then, now a huge percentage of people have smartphones, and quite a chunk of them have iPhones. And I think it might have been before, or only just after the iPad, although I don't remember when that came out. To be honest I don't think i'll buy anything else from them for quite a long time. (and why are people, matty, saying I have multiple apple products? When have I said that? I'm not an apple 'fanboy' or a 'hater' its possible to have an opinion without being either...)
And also, Matty, I don't have a ridiculous amount of 40k, and I don't moan about GW prices (much, might have had the odd grumble at a certain price of something or other) I like GW because the provide the game system I enjoy. I like Apple because i like the iMac I have. GW don't make a ridiculous amount of profit. And i'm also not saying Apple should drastically reduce their prices.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And also, when I want more 40k. I tend to have to sell stuff I did have. I've had plenty of armies, and models before. But I currently have about 2-3000 points of CSM (some of which is from ebay) and 1750 points of DE (quite a lot of that was used, and fairly cheap). And I don't moan about GW, I don't moan about Apple either. My question/query/opinion has been escalated and things added to it that I never said...
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm just going to leave this now.
I've clearly upset people with my 'Apple hate' despite owning many of their products (man being one). And as a spoilt child of rich parents (despite my parents not being rich at all) I don't understand how society works, and will never work (despite having already worked, and applying for many more jobs, including ones that you might say aren't all that desirable, for example I had an interview at MacDonalds, but didn't get the job because they wanted permanent, not someone who was going off to Uni. I would have got the job, if I hadn't of being going to Uni (or lied and not told them I was) as a friend worked/works there and apparently the manager pretty much told him that).
I know what you think of me doesn't matter, to you or to me, you don't know me personally and probably never will, and you'll have forgotten all about me as soon as your attention is drawn elsewhere, which is probably best for all parties involved. I'll just keep to the 40k sections of the forum, as i'm sure you don't want people like me messing up this wonderful OT forum.
The time isn't now, but at some point down the road (maybe far down the road) it'd be interesting to go short on Apple stock. Obviously this would take money to blow and some real guts. But it's not like the company hasn't had big dips in the past before the iMac, iPod and then iPad. That's an amazing run, but just like with stocks, past product performance is no guarantee of future results. There's no guarantee that they'll own the next big thing. And when coolness is a major part of your product appeal (no pun intended), you'd seem to be exposed to a certain amount of "fickleness risk."
Of course, the danger there taking a short position and then watching the stock just keep rising after the introduction of the iWidget, which does...everything, and looks really, really sleek. Hooray to losing money with no end in sight!
mattyrm wrote: Mate, its funny because I was talking to Albatross about this, and we mentioned crack. You know.. the whole love/hate thing.
Well, I wasn't being entirely serious. There's nothing wrong with complaining about prices. You can complain about prices but still think that there's a value in purchasing the product.
I think GW prices are high, but I still value (some of) the models enough to buy them. I would like the prices to be lower because then I'd be able to buy more stuff. Which is pretty much the point of the supply/demand curve.
gorgon wrote:but at some point down the road (maybe far down the road) it'd be interesting to go short on Apple stock
A lot of people went short on Apple before today. They figured with Jobs' death and a lack of big products this year, Apple profits would fail to meet expectations.
I'm not angry, and i'm not a hipster. I didn't get one because I thought they weren't popular, I got one because I had some money, my old computer was past its sell by date and because I used one at Uni and it was very nice, and they said they are pretty good for film editing. I don't care wether lots of people have something I have, or wether no one does. Why is everything I say be taken out of context and being re-interpreted? I have no problem with people/companies making money, why is that statement so hard to understand?
gorgon wrote:but at some point down the road (maybe far down the road) it'd be interesting to go short on Apple stock
A lot of people went short on Apple before today. They figured with Jobs' death and a lack of big products this year, Apple profits would fail to meet expectations.
Those guys lost a lot of money.
Yeah, I could see that. At this point Apple seems to have momentum (and cash reserves) that they could ride for years.
I know I said I was going to leave it, but want to say this as well:
I quite often make statements (only on the internet) that are more exaggerated than what I really think, I probably said the wrong things in my OP, after re-reading it, I probably did come across a bit differently to how I thought I had/intended to.
But doesn't change the fact that pretty much every accusation/judgement made about me in this thread is wrong, you can believe what you want, you might just be laughing at me (or more likely ignoring me) and think i'm lying, ignorant, making things up as I go along. Well I promise you i'm not, what do I gain from lying about facts and my opinion on the internet? I apologise sincerely if I have been talking rubbish, or doing anything that makes me seem in anyway ignorant, stupid, a Apple hater, an Apple fan boy turned hater, a GW hater, a hipster, angry. I am none of those things.
rodgers37 wrote:I'm not angry, and i'm not a hipster. I didn't get one because I thought they weren't popular, I got one because I had some money, my old computer was past its sell by date and because I used one at Uni and it was very nice, and they said they are pretty good for film editing. I don't care wether lots of people have something I have, or wether no one does. Why is everything I say be taken out of context and being re-interpreted? I have no problem with people/companies making money, why is that statement so hard to understand?
Then you answered your own question about Apple's prices and their supranomral prices.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rodgers37 wrote:I know I said I was going to leave it, but want to say this as well: I quite often make statements (only on the internet) that are more exaggerated than what I really think, I probably said the wrong things in my OP, after re-reading it, I probably did come across a bit differently to how I thought I had/intended to.
But doesn't change the fact that pretty much every accusation/judgement made about me in this thread is wrong, you can believe what you want, you might just be laughing at me (or more likely ignoring me) and think i'm lying, ignorant, making things up as I go along. Well I promise you i'm not, what do I gain from lying about facts and my opinion on the internet? I apologise sincerely if I have been talking rubbish, or doing anything that makes me seem in anyway ignorant, stupid, a Apple hater, an Apple fan boy turned hater, a GW hater, a hipster, angry. I am none of those things.
Actually all of mine have been spot on.
Don't feel bad. I have a teenager almost exactly your age. Now of course he walks aorund without a shirt as much as possible, because he's suddenly 'cut like Jesus' and is trying to show off to the local fair maidens.
I know things over the internet can get a bit muddled up and easy overreacted to, and I don't want to give the impression i'm a troll or anything like that, so appreciate your opinions and to be honest, its probably more me overreacting to nothing, rather than you or anyone else doing anything wrong in the first place. So until the next time I say something stupid
Rodgers, it's not that they are calling you ignorant. Frazzled and the others (in their own somewhat crass way) are pointing out the hypocrisy of you or anyone else deciding how much money someone else has is too much?
How would you feel if a genuinely destitute person walked up to you and demanded that your Grandfather's pension went to them or some other person or some other cause? Your grandfather worked hard for his pension! He took the risks of being injured on the job, he sacrificed time away from his loved ones to make sure that you and your siblings could have some money to get the decent things in life. Don't you think it would be unfair for someone else to disapprove of how much money your granddad made? Obviously, if he had enough money to give you some for a computer, he didn't really NEED that money. He should have given more to charity or to taxes or he shouldn't have charged enough for his product.
A lot of people - especially people who have worked hard for their money - really resent the notion that ANYONE should tell them how much they are allowed to make. The people who are now billionaires by investing in Apple could very well have been broke if Apple had made bad products, not evolved with the times, and was still cranking out Apple II computers in 2012. They took a risk by investing and it paid off big!
The people who earned the 11 billion in profit in the last few months are not making anyone poorer. There is nothing and no one who is forcing people to buy iPhones (that I know of, those Apple store employees look like Heaven's Gate cultists to me) There's this idea permeating the world that anytime someone makes money, it is only by directly taking it from someone else. It's not a case of someone getting a bigger piece of the pie - it's a case of someone making more pie....
mmmmm - pie.
Posted from my Macbook Pro after being initially read from my iPhone.
I do understand the hypocrisy of the things i've said (and again, sincerely apologise for doing so, it was silly of me).
Really it comes down to me being a little shocked at that figure, its huge. I suppose they do work as much/hard as anyone else to make and design high quality products and can sell them at any price, and do not force people to buy them. It does all make sense.
Also another minor point, my Grandad does give quite a lot of money to charity And I normally give my change to collections, its not much, and I don't do it for appreciation (so shouldn't really need to mention it, its not important).
Basically I overreacted to some stuff, that wasn't really all that bad. I don't decide how much money is too much money, if Apple have made that much, then I suppose they deserve to, they haven't done anything illegal or immoral.
rodgers37 wrote:I do understand the hypocrisy of the things i've said (and again, sincerely apologise for doing so, it was silly of me).
Really it comes down to me being a little shocked at that figure, its huge. I suppose they do work as much/hard as anyone else to make and design high quality products and can sell them at any price, and do not force people to buy them. It does all make sense.
Also another minor point, my Grandad does give quite a lot of money to charity And I normally give my change to collections, its not much, and I don't do it for appreciation (so shouldn't really need to mention it, its not important).
Basically I overreacted to some stuff, that wasn't really all that bad. I don't decide how much money is too much money, if Apple have made that much, then I suppose they deserve to, they haven't done anything illegal or immoral.
Now you're getting there. You can argue the merits of their business practices, emplyee practices, products, etc. etc. all day long however.
mattyrm wrote: Cut like Jesus?
I dont get it...
It was a joke from a comedian a couple of years ago, basically noting most artwork of Jesus has a really ripped torso Jesus.
If there is a PC cult, it exist within the massive fold of people who hate but use or couldn't care less or are generally positive about PCs. It'd be like a radical group of Christians -- sure, they're nuts but they're hardly representative. The Linux folks are much more unified in their beliefs but they've voluntarily removed themselves from society (as it were). So Linux fans are like the Amish. Apple worshippers are not only a large and powerful group but they are also extremely unified and they're looking for more converts all the time. Hope that helps.
Surtur wrote:It's funny that only Macs get a cult, but Windows or Linux don't.
It's complicated. Technically, there's not enough Windows fanboys to actually qualify as a religious organization, and the practitioners of Linux are too fragmented between the Stallmanites and the Church of BSD Saints to count.
Personally, I'm a reformed member of the Church of BSD Saints, vi denomination. We have a holy war going on right now with the Stallmanites. Death to the heretics and their emacs ways!
Bill Gates gives billions to charity, has his own Foundation that vaccinates kids and contributes to HIV research, and is largely hated.
Steve Jobs didn't give a dime to anyone and was actually documented as being a general donkey-cave, parking in handicapped spots and driving around without license plates because he found a loophole that only someone as wealthy as he could have abused, and yet the fanboys mourn his passing literally like it's the death of their saviour.
Surtur wrote:It's funny that only Macs get a cult, but Windows or Linux don't.
It's complicated. Technically, there's not enough Windows fanboys to actually qualify as a religious organization, and the practitioners of Linux are too fragmented between the Stallmanites and the Church of BSD Saints to count.
Personally, I'm a reformed member of the Church of BSD Saints, vi denomination. We have a holy war going on right now with the Stallmanites. Death to the heretics and their emacs ways!
I don't hate Macs or fanboys. I just call them like I see them. As far as computers go, really I prefer the right tool for the job:
Windows for Gaming and my audio/video needs.
Linux for server stuff, programming, and work in general.
Mac for sitting in a coffee shop during working hours, wearing skinny jeans, and listening to Dave Matthews Band.
daedalus wrote:Ya know, thing that really blows my mind:
Bill Gates gives billions to charity, has his own Foundation that vaccinates kids and contributes to HIV research, and is largely hated.
Steve Jobs didn't give a dime to anyone and was actually documented as being a general donkey-cave, parking in handicapped spots and driving around without license plates because he found a loophole that only someone as wealthy as he could have abused, and yet the fanboys mourn his passing literally like it's the death of their saviour.
I didn't mourn his passing. Honey badger don't give a gak.
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:The people who earned the 11 billion in profit in the last few months are not making anyone poorer.
Well, there are the thousands of US citizens that could be earning a decent living if manufacturing was done in the USA. Clearly Apple can afford US labour.
daedalus wrote:I don't hate Macs or fanboys. I just call them like I see them. As far as computers go, really I prefer the right tool for the job:
Windows for Gaming and my audio/video needs.
Linux for server stuff, programming, and work in general.
Mac for sitting in a coffee shop during working hours, wearing skinny jeans, and listening to Dave Matthews Band.
That is the main thing I regret about getting a Mac, the games. I'm not a huge PC gamer, but I like the option. Have to use my Mums computer to play MW2 (how many more have there been since MW2, is it just 1, or 2?) and Warcraft 2... Stuck with COD4 and Sims on Mac. At least Diablo 3 works on both, good old Blizzard.
Is Linux actually good? I've heard good things about it, but never tried it.
And i'm obviously doing the wrong thing, I don't think i've ever sat in a coffee shop, don't even like coffee... And I don't think I could pull off skinny jeans. And as for Dave Matthews Band, well, never heard them Although I can't say your stereotype doesn't fit a few Mac users.
And Frazzled, where does the 'Honey Badger' come from? Honey Badgers are cool, they have some in the Zoo/Wild Animal Park/'Were not really a zoo , honest, we love our animals place', nearby to where I am currently located.
Ya know, I don't really care how much Apple made as long as they're being taxed properly and made it through legal means. If they got a hundred kajillion dollars, good for them.
That is pretty epic, I don't have any whisky to hand so can't see if it gets any better. I do have a bottle of Vodka, will that have the same effect? Or does it have to be Whisky?
And LoneLictor, are you saying you don't support illegal operations? What about illegal ones, who pay their taxes? Do the Mafia pay tax?
LoneLictor wrote:Ya know, I don't really care how much Apple made as long as they're being taxed properly and made it through legal means. If they got a hundred kajillion dollars, good for them.
I don't know exactly how the tax rules work. But form how Newspapers make it sound, rich people/companies don't pay enough tax. No idea if thats true, i'd have thought the more income you have, the more you pay. Isn't that how it works?
rodgers37 wrote:I don't know exactly how the tax rules work. But form how Newspapers make it sound, rich people/companies don't pay enough tax. No idea if thats true, i'd have thought the more income you have, the more you pay. Isn't that how it works?
Ten million accountants and thousands of pages of tax code say that is not exactly correct (in the US). Maybe on an absolute dollar basis.
You also have to separate out taxes on companies, then taxes on dividends (if any), capital gains taxes, and what counts as a deduction. DOn't forget the types of companies matter, as well as where the cash flows came from, where the cash is at etc. etc. fun fun fun.
Thats why the flat taxers are the Don Quixotes of the tax world. I drink to them.
Strangely enough we've just stumbled on the real monster - tax law and permitted deductions. Its not that Apple or GE is bad, its what they are able to do legally that is...less good.
I am more than willing to admit I don't know enough to talk about the subject properly, so its interesting to read more about it (and much easier to understand and take in, in small doses like that). It seems far too complex really, but this idea of 'permitted deductions' does seem ridiculous, obviously not the companies fault (unless the big ones all put pressure on governments to make it so), if it exists they are going to exploit it.
rodgers37 wrote:I am more than willing to admit I don't know enough to talk about the subject properly, so its interesting to read more about it (and much easier to understand and take in, in small doses like that). It seems far too complex really, but this idea of 'permitted deductions' does seem ridiculous, obviously not the companies fault (unless the big ones all put pressure on governments to make it so), if it exists they are going to exploit it.
Now you are learning the ways of the true jedi young padiwon. Remember, not only do the company's exploit it, they write the code changes and give it to their respective politicians who then push it around and get it into the law.
I would suggest you read the book list I sent earlier first. That will give you a grounding in economic theory and you can argue more gooder against the likes of Dogma. Then you start pulling in more current topics.
Fun books to read. Barbarians at the gate and the Fall of the House of Lehman.
rodgers37 wrote:I am more than willing to admit I don't know enough to talk about the subject properly, so its interesting to read more about it (and much easier to understand and take in, in small doses like that). It seems far too complex really, but this idea of 'permitted deductions' does seem ridiculous, obviously not the companies fault (unless the big ones all put pressure on governments to make it so), if it exists they are going to exploit it.
Now you are learning the ways of the true jedi young padiwon. Remember, not only do the company's exploit it, they write the code changes and give it to their respective politicians who then push it around and get it into the law.
I would suggest you read the book list I sent earlier first. That will give you a grounding in economic theory and you can argue more gooder against the likes of Dogma. Then you start pulling in more current topics.
Fun books to read. Barbarians at the gate and the Fall of the House of Lehman.
rodgers37 wrote:I am more than willing to admit I don't know enough to talk about the subject properly, so its interesting to read more about it (and much easier to understand and take in, in small doses like that). It seems far too complex really, but this idea of 'permitted deductions' does seem ridiculous, obviously not the companies fault (unless the big ones all put pressure on governments to make it so), if it exists they are going to exploit it.
Now you are learning the ways of the true jedi young padiwon. Remember, not only do the company's exploit it, they write the code changes and give it to their respective politicians who then push it around and get it into the law.
I would suggest you read the book list I sent earlier first. That will give you a grounding in economic theory and you can argue more gooder against the likes of Dogma. Then you start pulling in more current topics.
Fun books to read. Barbarians at the gate and the Fall of the House of Lehman.
I find it so strange that the books and opinions you advocate and the opinions and ideas you present are sometimes so dramatically different.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Frazzled wrote:We're not alone in interesting tax structures however.
Nope, the only truly uniquely dysfunctional feather in our cap is for-profit healthcare.
Actually quite a few countries have that, including Britain and Canada.
Every practicing medical professional in the UK works for the British government. I do not consider the state to be a capitalistic stakeholder in the equation since fundamentally it is beholden to public scrutiny rather than market forces.
frgsinwntr wrote:If you hate capitolism... stop buying popular gadgets... if you don't... you're part of the problem
Does anyone NEED an iphone? NO... but its nice to have one....
Does anyone need an Ipad? HELL NO... but its nice to have one...
I don't hate capitalism, I don't hate anything.
Why is it so ridiculous that I think one individual company gaining $11 billion in 3 months is slightly off? Especially after someone has said they just sit on their profit, and since i'm fairly sure they've pretty much always been making profit, they must have quite a bit of money in the bank...
I would say half the reason for such profit is on the consumers. Buy buy buy. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
If I were a fanatic of apple I would be happy at such profit. Means more money into product development.
It's just good business.
Really don't have an issue with such an idea as long as it is done ethically and it is just luxury items.
Albatross wrote:We have private healthcare here, too...
It's well in the minority though isn't it? The NHS provides the majority of healthcare for citizens in the UK? Or am I projecting English systems over all of the UK again?
Albatross wrote:We have private healthcare here, too...
It's well in the minority though isn't it? The NHS provides the majority of healthcare for citizens in the UK? Or am I projecting English systems over all of the UK again?
Oh, yeah, it's in the minority for sure. Most people in the country use the NHS, and most healthcare professionals in the UK work for the NHS, no question, but there are private options too. Also, General Practioners (the people you go to if you've just got a virus or infection etc.) are private entities contracted by, but not under direct employment by the state, if memory serves. It's just a common misrepresentation that a person who was dissatisfied with NHS care has no other options. Private healthcare is generally excellent here. The only thing we don't have the option to do is not pay National Insurance contributions, which go to pay for stuff like the NHS and the state pension. So even if you decide not to use the NHS, you'd still have to contribute towards it, which is fairly reasonable.
I mean, there is perhaps an argument that the portion of one's National Insurance that goes towards the NHS should be transferable to a private provider, but that's another discussion.
rodgers37 wrote:I don't know exactly how the tax rules work. But form how Newspapers make it sound, rich people/companies don't pay enough tax. No idea if thats true, i'd have thought the more income you have, the more you pay. Isn't that how it works?
Ten million accountants and thousands of pages of tax code say that is not exactly correct (in the US).
Maybe on an absolute dollar basis.
You also have to separate out taxes on companies, then taxes on dividends (if any), capital gains taxes, and what counts as a deduction. DOn't forget the types of companies matter, as well as where the cash flows came from, where the cash is at etc. etc. fun fun fun.
Thats why the flat taxers are the Don Quixotes of the tax world. I drink to them.
Strangely enough we've just stumbled on the real monster - tax law and permitted deductions. Its not that Apple or GE is bad, its what they are able to do legally that is...less good.
Flat tax wouldn't fix anything. You have to go after tax deductions and dodges. A lot of cruise lines pay 0 taxes because they claim their base of operations to be in another country. The current tax is supposed to be 35% and it's what is most commonly cited, but major companies rarely pay more than 20%, often around 15%. It brings us from one of the highest corporate taxes, to one of the lower. The US is a haven for businesses.
rodgers37 wrote:I don't know exactly how the tax rules work. But form how Newspapers make it sound, rich people/companies don't pay enough tax. No idea if thats true, i'd have thought the more income you have, the more you pay. Isn't that how it works?
Ten million accountants and thousands of pages of tax code say that is not exactly correct (in the US). Maybe on an absolute dollar basis.
You also have to separate out taxes on companies, then taxes on dividends (if any), capital gains taxes, and what counts as a deduction. DOn't forget the types of companies matter, as well as where the cash flows came from, where the cash is at etc. etc. fun fun fun.
Thats why the flat taxers are the Don Quixotes of the tax world. I drink to them.
Strangely enough we've just stumbled on the real monster - tax law and permitted deductions. Its not that Apple or GE is bad, its what they are able to do legally that is...less good.
Flat tax wouldn't fix anything. You have to go after tax deductions and dodges. A lot of cruise lines pay 0 taxes because they claim their base of operations to be in another country. The current tax is supposed to be 35% and it's what is most commonly cited, but major companies rarely pay more than 20%, often around 15%. It brings us from one of the highest corporate taxes, to one of the lower. The US is a haven for businesses.
You can't solve the debt issues by taxing businesses more anyway, realistically the tax burden on american citizens needs to be increased from middle class on upwards for the bottom line to be realistically impacted. You can shuffle business taxes around, but generally you can't increase them enough to solve everything without causing more problems than it's worth. It's more palatable to suggest we tax the rich and corporations more (and we should), but it's not a silver bullet and it can't fix this gak alone, we're gonna have to up pretty much everything if we want to handle this. That or we reform healthcare. Conservatives won't go for a government system though, so broad tax increases are the only realistic solution.
ShumaGorath wrote:
Every practicing medical professional in the UK works for the British government. I do not consider the state to be a capitalistic stakeholder in the equation since fundamentally it is beholden to public scrutiny rather than market forces.
Albatross wrote:We have private healthcare here, too...
Now here's a side question Alby. Do you feel the acces to private care by those who can afford it, is negative to the proles? Aka is it a system of grade A care for the wealthy and the standard substandard care for the masses. Would it be better to have no private system?
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generalgrog wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Yes you're over reacting. if you need a refresher on Commie Pinko land please emigrate to North Korea.
Frazzz watch out, dear leader might have an ICBM with your name on it.
GG
Wiener Command has anticipated this eventuality.
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Surtur wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
rodgers37 wrote:I don't know exactly how the tax rules work. But form how Newspapers make it sound, rich people/companies don't pay enough tax. No idea if thats true, i'd have thought the more income you have, the more you pay. Isn't that how it works?
Ten million accountants and thousands of pages of tax code say that is not exactly correct (in the US).
Maybe on an absolute dollar basis.
You also have to separate out taxes on companies, then taxes on dividends (if any), capital gains taxes, and what counts as a deduction. DOn't forget the types of companies matter, as well as where the cash flows came from, where the cash is at etc. etc. fun fun fun.
Thats why the flat taxers are the Don Quixotes of the tax world. I drink to them.
Strangely enough we've just stumbled on the real monster - tax law and permitted deductions. Its not that Apple or GE is bad, its what they are able to do legally that is...less good.
Flat tax wouldn't fix anything. You have to go after tax deductions and dodges. A lot of cruise lines pay 0 taxes because they claim their base of operations to be in another country. The current tax is supposed to be 35% and it's what is most commonly cited, but major companies rarely pay more than 20%, often around 15%. It brings us from one of the highest corporate taxes, to one of the lower. The US is a haven for businesses.
You're right. A flat tax statement alone is only a component. A flat tax on revenues for corporations is a different bird, etc. etc.
Aye Shuma, its a really small percentage of people go private here.
I mean, I would pay for private, but im forced to pay for the NHS already, so.. I just thought feth it.
I also add, that I am a physical powerhouse and haven't been to see a doctor for twenty years.. so, I guess I don't know either way.
I also don't support universal healthcare as I think it removes the incentive to take care of your health and I believe that's why the country is full of fat, drunk, chain smoking chavs who eat nothing but microwave pizza.
There you go, please read this thread. We've covered that a vocal extreme minority of people use private care in the UK and that some medical professionals are subcontracted by the government which I guess is one step of kevin bacon away from actually working for them. So sure. If you want to be your old obtuse self then yeah, they have a private healthcare system that in no way resembles ours. Pat yourself on the back for inventing a way to be right that matters in no way to anyone.
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mattyrm wrote: Aye Shuma, its a really small percentage of people go private here.
I mean, I would pay for private, but im forced to pay for the NHS already, so.. I just thought feth it.
I also add, that I am a physical powerhouse and haven't been to see a doctor for twenty years.. so, I guess I don't know either way.
I also don't support universal healthcare as I think it removes the incentive to take care of your health and I believe that's why the country is full of fat, drunk, chain smoking chavs who eat nothing but microwave pizza.
But that's another thread altogether.
We don't have universal healthcare and are fatter and less healthy than all of you.
mattyrm wrote: Aye Shuma, its a really small percentage of people go private here.
I mean, I would pay for private, but im forced to pay for the NHS already, so.. I just thought feth it.
I also add, that I am a physical powerhouse and haven't been to see a doctor for twenty years.. so, I guess I don't know either way.
I also don't support universal healthcare as I think it removes the incentive to take care of your health and I believe that's why the country is full of fat, drunk, chain smoking chavs who eat nothing but microwave pizza.
But that's another thread altogether.
We don't have universal healthcare and are fatter and less healthy than all of you.
Hey two wrongs don't make a right!
Maybe its cos you guys have gak in your food thats illegal over here? Or lack of education? Or just worse social security that makes people eat nothing but gak. I've never seen a fat arse like a fat American arse.. our obese people weigh in at about 25 stone, but we go for a walk in LA and you see people who are unbelievably fat, so fat they need mobility scooters and get their shorts off a circus elephant.
My missus swears its due to the difference in the stuff we eat. I think that there is a sugar equivalent of nicotine or something in the cookies you sell in the States.
Seriously, I haven't been to the docs for years cos I look after myself, If I went on the piss for ten weeks after Iraq or something, I think "feth me, I bet my blood pressure is up, I best eat salads and go running for a few months" but what incentive is there for fat doleys in the UK not to eat pizza all day if they get all their meds for free? They just think "feth it, ill get ten pizzas, as long as ive got money for booze im alright" I think the "gak I wont be able to afford any fags" method would be a good incentive for people to eat Tuna and get their ample frames onto the Stairmaster!
mattyrm wrote: Aye Shuma, its a really small percentage of people go private here.
I mean, I would pay for private, but im forced to pay for the NHS already, so.. I just thought feth it.
I also add, that I am a physical powerhouse and haven't been to see a doctor for twenty years.. so, I guess I don't know either way.
I also don't support universal healthcare as I think it removes the incentive to take care of your health and I believe that's why the country is full of fat, drunk, chain smoking chavs who eat nothing but microwave pizza.
But that's another thread altogether.
We don't have universal healthcare and are fatter and less healthy than all of you.
Hey two wrongs don't make a right!
Maybe its cos you guys have gak in your food thats illegal over here? Or lack of education? Or just worse social security that makes people eat nothing but gak. I've never seen a fat arse like a fat American arse.. our obese people weigh in at about 25 stone, but we go for a walk in LA and you see people who are unbelievably fat, so fat they need mobility scooters and get their shorts off a circus elephant.
My missus swears its due to the difference in the stuff we eat. I think that there is a sugar equivalent of nicotine or something in the cookies you sell in the States.
Seriously, I haven't been to the docs for years cos I look after myself, If I went on the piss for ten weeks after Iraq or something, I think "feth me, I bet my blood pressure is up, I best eat salads and go running for a few months" but what incentive is there for fat doleys in the UK not to eat pizza all day if they get all their meds for free? They just think "feth it, ill get ten pizzas, as long as ive got money for booze im alright" I think the "gak I wont be able to afford any fags" method would be a good incentive for people to eat Tuna and get their ample frames onto the Stairmaster!
It's a cultural thing, we do excess better than anyone and somehow believe we're adult enough to handle the decision making processes in our health system. Our healthcare system is just along for the fat-scooter ride while millions of people exploit it for trillians of dollars.
How are people stupid enough to buy the iPad 3? There's no fundamental difference from the iPad2, except for the fact that it'll burn out your retinas faster if you use it late at night.
There you go, please read this thread. We've covered that a vocal extreme minority of people use private care in the UK and that some medical professionals are subcontracted by the government which I guess is one step of kevin bacon away from actually working for them. So sure. If you want to be your old obtuse self then yeah, they have a private healthcare system that in no way resembles ours. Pat yourself on the back for inventing a way to be right that matters in no way to anyone.
Awesome to see you trying to insert another topic so you don't have to admit you were wrong.
There you go, please read this thread. We've covered that a vocal extreme minority of people use private care in the UK and that some medical professionals are subcontracted by the government which I guess is one step of kevin bacon away from actually working for them. So sure. If you want to be your old obtuse self then yeah, they have a private healthcare system that in no way resembles ours. Pat yourself on the back for inventing a way to be right that matters in no way to anyone.
Awesome to see you trying to insert another topic so you don't have to admit you were wrong.
I don't think you clicked the link. Or you did and are better at humor than I once believed.
Albatross wrote:We have private healthcare here, too...
Now here's a side question Alby. Do you feel the acces to private care by those who can afford it, is negative to the proles? Aka is it a system of grade A care for the wealthy and the standard substandard care for the masses. Would it be better to have no private system?
Nope. I think we have the balance just about right for the time being, but there's definitely room for massive improvement. There should be a state option for people who want/need it (like me!), and there should be affordable options for people who don't. I'd like to see us gradually transition towards a system whereby delivery of services is provided pretty much by specialist private entities (apart from basic healthcare infrastructure, such as the Ambulance service) but paid for by national insurance, so that everyone has cradle-to-grave healthcare coverage, which everyone in a financial position to do so pays into, without the state providing the services directly. It just seems unwieldy and problematic, like it belongs to a bygone era. Surely it would be better to choose how to spend your national insurance - marketising the provision of state healthcare could really work if handled correctly. You'd have a budget based on your national insurance contributions, and you'd allocate it to providers accordingly, with the ability to top it up at your discretion, should you desire a higher standard of, say... dentistry.
Anyway, why do you have me down as some sort of commie? I'm a bloody card-carrying (seriously, I get it out in the pub and show it to people - bitches love me) member of the Tory party!
He kinda discussed it with Alby already Frazz. Its infantile to try and argue with someone because they kinda said something but didn't.
He said "Its a large minority use it isn't it?" and was correct. Its a small point anyway, who cares if he wasn't aware of it initially? It seems kinda elementary school to badger people out to say "I was unaware of that fact"
gak, were all wrong sometimes.
Well, except me obviously. Especially when I'm talking about grossly unfair and inappropriate responses to Islam.
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Albatross wrote:
Anyway, why do you have me down as some sort of commie? I'm a bloody card-carrying (seriously, I get it out in the pub and show it to people - bitches love me) member of the Tory party!
He does and they do.. He looks all man when he slams it down on the table and back handers a miner.
I only call people that who can best me in a fight, if you can forge the rest of your band, Frazzled, Shuma and Samus into a single entity and miraculously manage it Ill start calling you it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: feth it you can add my grandad as well if your short the numbers.
Albatross wrote:We have private healthcare here, too...
Now here's a side question Alby. Do you feel the acces to private care by those who can afford it, is negative to the proles? Aka is it a system of grade A care for the wealthy and the standard substandard care for the masses. Would it be better to have no private system?
Nope. I think we have the balance just about right for the time being, but there's definitely room for massive improvement. There should be a state option for people who want/need it (like me!), and there should be affordable options for people who don't. I'd like to see us gradually transition towards a system whereby delivery of services is provided pretty much by specialist private entities (apart from basic healthcare infrastructure, such as the Ambulance service) but paid for by national insurance, so that everyone has cradle-to-grave healthcare coverage, which everyone in a financial position to do so pays into, without the state providing the services directly. It just seems unwieldy and problematic, like it belongs to a bygone era. Surely it would be better to choose how to spend your national insurance - marketising the provision of state healthcare could really work if handled correctly. You'd have a budget based on your national insurance contributions, and you'd allocate it to providers accordingly, with the ability to top it up at your discretion, should you desire a higher standard of, say... dentistry.
Interesting. It sounds like what you'd like to see developed is basically the Canadian system. They have a single payer but private service providers generally. Most Canadians like it vs. disliking it and of course there are the usual horror stories which every system seems to have.
Anyway, why do you have me down as some sort of commie? I'm a bloody card-carrying (seriously, I get it out in the pub and show it to people - bitches love me) member of the Tory party!
I didn't say you were a commie pinko (in this thread ). It was a real question. I have a theory that if you're going to go government, everyone should have to go government, and not an effectively two tiered system.
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mattyrm wrote: I only call people that who can best me in a fight, if you can forge the rest of your band, Frazzled, Shuma and Samus into a single entity and miraculously manage it Ill start calling you it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: feth it you can add my grandad as well if your short the numbers.
Son, I don't need others. I already have millions.
Frazzled wrote:
Interesting. It sounds like what you'd like to see developed is basically the Canadian system. They have a single payer but private service providers generally. Most Canadians like it vs. disliking it and of course there are the usual horror stories which every system seems to have.
I cant be fethed with a google, but surely their system is pretty much the same as ours?
Frazzled wrote:
Interesting. It sounds like what you'd like to see developed is basically the Canadian system. They have a single payer but private service providers generally. Most Canadians like it vs. disliking it and of course there are the usual horror stories which every system seems to have.
I cant be fethed with a google, but surely their system is pretty much the same as ours?
I know the CD system much more, but I think the UK system is much more direct government no? Canada is basically government payer, private services (I think) Actual Hortons cultists could help out right now...
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