So Tasty Taste has posted that he will start releaseing a number of rumors he has saved up about 6th Edition and Chaos tommorow.
This is what he had to say so far.

June-July 6th Edition

Sept-Oct Chaos Space Marines

Sprinkle in some flyers, buildings, and that is all you will see from the 40k front for the year.

He also seems to agree with Stickmonkey about no new DA until after January at least.

Here is his Original posting.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/25/network-news-time-to-take-the-lid-off-6th-and-csm/


If true im glad that Chaos isnt going to be the last Codex of 5th but the first of 6th. Guess we will just have to see what he has to say tommorow.

Her is the Full post for the work blocked.... Since I was asked to post it.

The last six months have been how can we say…

interesting when it has come to rumors concerning our beloved Warhammer 40k.

With the so call “Hobbit” rumor lock down, reliable rumors have been hard to come by. Well finally, I am about to bring you a ray of light in the otherwise dark age of rumors, but before we get to any rumors let me start off by saying that I was wrong.

I was partially wrong about a certain rumor I’ve been repeating for the last year or so.

The main reason for the error is that I assumed Games Workshop would never have only one 40k codex for an entire calender year. Sadly, GW has a habit of disappointing…

So I want start by adding my voice to the venerable rumor monger Stickmonkey when he recently made mention, that Dark Angels weren’t coming till at least early next year.

40k players will only get one codex this year and that is Chaos Space Marines– along with 6th edition of course.

So the time-table has changed and looks like this:

June-July 6th Edition

Sept-Oct Chaos Space Marines

Sprinkle in some flyers, buildings, and that is all you will see from the 40k front for the year.

Now what about 6th edition and Chaos Space Marine rumors you might ask?

Well I got them and it is time for the other rumor mongers to join in.

I am pretty sure a few people have been siting on rumors for quite some time.

Like the pieces to a puzzle, if only everyone shows there pieces, then we will create a clear 6th edition picture.

So with the “gauntlet” thrown, I won’t be posting anything about 6th and the CSM codex today.

Instead I am going to wait one day to see if we can get others to shake that rumor tree first.

So what he's saying is If you show me yours I'll show you mine.

deejaybainbridge wrote:So what he's saying is If you show me yours I'll show you mine.

Come on just a quick look while no ones looking

Should he be lifting the lid today, or tomorrow?

Edit: that would be disappointing if it was only 1 codex for the whole year, what a way to celebrate Warhammer 40k's 25th anniversary.

If thats true with only 1 more 40k book this year then that's pretty crazy how slow they're releasing codices for their flagship game

Tastytaste is not someone I particularly trust, after he slammed the DCMs for supposedly doing something that we don't actually do (protecting a certain dakkanaut wherever he goes).

I don't believe his "Rumors" (He probably got them from fething Ghost or something).

The rumors sound quite plausible to me. And this:

Kirasu wrote:If thats true with only 1 more 40k book this year then that's pretty crazy how slow they're releasing codices for their flagship game

Was true for fantasy the year they released 8th edition, so...

Yeah but Fantasy sells less than space marines.. so it's not really critically important to GW as a company. Without 40k there is no GW so that's why I'm surprised they aren't pushing more out for it

Sounds like utter gak.

Probably just wants more blog views.



When was the last time Stickmonkey was correct?

Yaaaaawn.

This isn't in the existing thread because___________?

...it was closed.

aka_mythos wrote:...it was closed.

Case closed

...because there was no more 'news' or even 'rumors' to discuss, and what was being discussed could have been done in 40K General.

From the looks of it, there's not much new here either, so this thread's already on the clock.

Maybe?

EDIT: Nicorex, shove this in the OP will you? Help the work blocked... and deny blog views.

The last six months have been how can we say…

interesting when it has come to rumors concerning our beloved Warhammer 40k.

With the so call “Hobbit” rumor lock down, reliable rumors have been hard to come by. Well finally, I am about to bring you a ray of light in the otherwise dark age of rumors, but before we get to any rumors let me start off by saying that I was wrong.

I was partially wrong about a certain rumor I’ve been repeating for the last year or so.

The main reason for the error is that I assumed Games Workshop would never have only one 40k codex for an entire calender year. Sadly, GW has a habit of disappointing…

So I want start by adding my voice to the venerable rumor monger Stickmonkey when he recently made mention, that Dark Angels weren’t coming till at least early next year.

40k players will only get one codex this year and that is Chaos Space Marines– along with 6th edition of course.

So the time-table has changed and looks like this:

June-July 6th Edition

Sept-Oct Chaos Space Marines

Sprinkle in some flyers, buildings, and that is all you will see from the 40k front for the year.

Now what about 6th edition and Chaos Space Marine rumors you might ask?

Well I got them and it is time for the other rumor mongers to join in.

I am pretty sure a few people have been siting on rumors for quite some time.

Like the pieces to a puzzle, if only everyone shows there pieces, then we will create a clear 6th edition picture.

So with the “gauntlet” thrown, I won’t be posting anything about 6th and the CSM codex today.

Instead I am going to wait one day to see if we can get others to shake that rumor tree first.

In the meantime, if you want notification the instant leaks are posted, here are three ways to be the first to know.

Join Blood of Kittens Twitter

Join Blood of Kittens Facebook

Create an account at the Blood of Kittens Network to receive an email notification by joining the rumors group.

WARNING to everyone expect the unexpected when it comes to GW– 6th edition is not going to be the 5th edition quick fix many people were hoping for.

This is hilarious, he wants people to post rumours first. What an arsepiece.

Kirasu wrote:Yeah but Fantasy sells less than space marines.. so it's not really critically important to GW as a company. Without 40k there is no GW so that's why I'm surprised they aren't pushing more out for it

Got any figures to back that up?

Alpharius wrote:From the looks of it, there's not much new here either, so this thread's already on the clock.

Maybe?

I think we'd all be fine with it.

There's only a request for Rumors in his "so-called" rumor post. And that's against the News/Rumors policies.

Sink it, Alphy!

A) I did lable it as a Runor Tease...
B) There is actually rumors....
C) Yes Tasty does do a bit of "Ohh you have to keep coming back to read the rest" stuff.. I assume its to increase blog traffic....
D) Actually with 6th in June/July, and Chaos in Sept/Oct.. Plus the hint at new terrain.. These are newer rumors that I had not seen. So mabye not everyone else has either...
E) I was just trying to pass some info along.. Close if you feel you must...

This has me interested, but I'll keep an eye on it.

I hate announcements of announcements.

People can hate on Tasty for being all showy about his rumors, maybe even rightfully so, but he gets away with it because he's usually right. See: Grey Knights, Necrons.

My head is Assploding with all these rumors.

FFS - Can we get a definite answer with no build up!!!

First exclusive news for subscribers of BoK:
The next Codex will be accompaiend by new plastic kits

While his tone may be annoying and his current rumours are less than what we already know, we should keep an eye on future tidbits. Sometimes he has rumours that turn out true (like Sororitas getting a WD Codex only).

Still more talk of flyers. The flyer rumors talk of SM and Ork flyers, while the Codex missing flyers for Necrons and Nids are no where to be seen. Something is off.

The guestimating going on an the Seattle Bunker is July for the RULEBOOK. Sep for the starter set. Oct/Nov for Chaos.

Mind you there's nobody with an actual "in" at GW, just a few of us trying to work out how 6th would actually be trickled out based on previous experience.

I think all the flyers are supposed to be released, not just the ork an sm ones.

unmercifulconker wrote:I think all the flyers are supposed to be released, not just the ork an sm ones.

So that would be 4 kits, 5 if they did an Eldar flyer, based on the various rumors. 5 kits sounds like more than a sprinkle when combined with buildings. Perhaps flyers will be the new meta for 6th Ed . I see your transport spam, and counter with flying transport spam

Oh yeah, eldar need a flyer too don't they. Oh wait and so do Tau, and what about demons?

Now I am confused

Wow, this guy is a D-bag. He wants others to show their hand first and a blatant attempt to increase his 'follower' count on social media sites.

Chaos in september/october ? Hell, hoped to see them in summer. Anyway, would probably have been disapointing, knowing GW tendancy to screw anything which isn't Loyalist SM. Maybe DA will at least be good.

SickSix wrote:Wow, this guy is a D-bag. He wants others to show their hand first and a blatant attempt to increase his 'follower' count on social media sites.

I ask you to release a rumor.
You give me said rumor.
I say "yep, that's what I heard too!"
I now appear credible.

Tastytaste's rumors are hit and miss, but when they hit they're pretty dead on. I wouldn't count Stickmonkey as a source of anything though; I can't recall much he was right about aside from "Necrons will get stuff at some point" which was vague enough to be true.

Khornate25 wrote:Chaos in september/october ? Hell, hoped to see them in summer. Anyway, would probably have been disapointing, knowing GW tendancy to screw anything which isn't Loyalist SM. Maybe DA will at least be good.

Yes, because Dark Eldar, Necrons, IG and pretty much every codex that isn't Tyranids was "screwed over" by GW.

Breotan wrote:The guestimating going on an the Seattle Bunker is July for the RULEBOOK. Sep for the starter set. Oct/Nov for Chaos.

This pretty much follows the sched for fantasy 8 right? Seems to be how they would do it this time, grab as many hardcover sales as they can then go through and get everyone who bought the hardcover and the rest who didn't to get the box. only one codex this year, although bummer, also sounds pretty plausible.

Fantasy 8 and 40k 5 off the top of my head.

*yawn*
*looks at watch*

So. No new news? This is like the third thread that hasn't contributed much of anything to the chaos rumours machine...

ShumaGorath wrote:I hate announcements of announcements.

Agreed, but yet I can't stop reading the thread.

Tasty is pretty accurate when he does let info slip. His Necron and GK rumors were pretty detailed and spot-on for what was in the codex, and he was releasing those rumors before anyone else was squawking anything at all.

This is a sad dissapointment... I really want to start either a speed freak army or an eldar army but i refuse to do it until the new codexes and minis come out

Riddick40k wrote:This is a sad dissapointment... I really want to start either a speed freak army or an eldar army but i refuse to do it until the new codexes and minis come out

Nothing's stopping you for Speed Freaks since the models are recent (and excellent) and the rules are very good.

Brother SRM wrote:

Riddick40k wrote:This is a sad dissapointment... I really want to start either a speed freak army or an eldar army but i refuse to do it until the new codexes and minis come out

Nothing's stopping you for Speed Freaks since the models are recent (and excellent) and the rules are very good.

And as the recent releases has shown, even if you do get the new codex you desire, don't hold your breath for all the models to be available.

I can't remember, but did Tasty's couple of Necron rumours come before or after Yak's?
I remember some of his rumours at-least were pretty much 'what Yak said'.

reps0l wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Riddick40k wrote:This is a sad dissapointment... I really want to start either a speed freak army or an eldar army but i refuse to do it until the new codexes and minis come out

Nothing's stopping you for Speed Freaks since the models are recent (and excellent) and the rules are very good.

And as the recent releases has shown, even if you do get the new codex you desire, don't hold your breath for all the models to be available.

And there's little evidence of either being updated within 2012 too.

Could just use a fandex for the Eldar.

A full year of space marines. Sighs.

Well it won't cause pause on my new Dark Angels force, as unless something very odd happens I am still convinced we will be getting them in the 6th box.

However it will mean I will be careful on what I pick up and paint until the codex shows up. Probably stick with a Ravenwing force to start, as it won't clash with anything else when the book comes out, well it shouldn't do.

Also it'll be nice to have a few speeders again, and I've been meaning to have a go at painting Sammuel and his bike for a while.

I can't remember, but did Tasty's couple of Necron rumours come before or after Yak's?
I remember some of his rumours at-least were pretty much 'what Yak said'.

reps0l wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Riddick40k wrote:This is a sad dissapointment... I really want to start either a speed freak army or an eldar army but i refuse to do it until the new codexes and minis come out

Nothing's stopping you for Speed Freaks since the models are recent (and excellent) and the rules are very good.

And as the recent releases has shown, even if you do get the new codex you desire, don't hold your breath for all the models to be available.

And there's little evidence of either being updated within 2012 too.

Could just use a fandex for the Eldar.

Totalwar1402 wrote:A full year of space marines. Sighs.

GW just likes to push its customers to the point of leaving the game.

Totalwar1402 wrote:A full year of space marines. Sighs.

I am under the impression that they just recently released some new Tyranid kits, and that we get a bunch of new Necrons in like ten days or so, plus the flyers release(s) that are rumoured to include an Ork model as well as perhaps the remaining Dark Eldar & Necron flyers.

So cut these bullocks will you?

TBD wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:A full year of space marines. Sighs.

I am under the impression that they just recently released some new Tyranid kits, and that we get a bunch of new Necrons in like ten days or so, plus the flyers release(s) that are rumoured to include an Ork model as well as perhaps the remaining Dark Eldar & Necron flyers.

So cut these bullocks will you?

I like the cut of your jib.

TBD wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:A full year of space marines. Sighs.

I am under the impression that they just recently released some new Tyranid kits, and that we get a bunch of new Necrons in like ten days or so, plus the flyers release(s) that are rumoured to include an Ork model as well as perhaps the remaining Dark Eldar & Necron flyers.

So cut these bullocks will you?

You know that I'am refering to codex's not a few models that should have came out a while back or a necron wave we were all expecting. Plus, we've been hearing about the Summer of Flyers for a long time. Its far more likely that every army will get a flyer as it gets a new army; not get them all at once.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

You know that I'am refering to codex's not a few models that should have came out a while back or a necron wave we were all expecting. Plus, we've been hearing about the Summer of Flyers for a long time. Its far more likely that every army will get a flyer as it gets a new army; not get them all at once.

See. That is where you go wrong. The production pipeline of GW is models, not books. What people paint and play with on the table are models, not books. Unloading major releases like Dark Eldar (~ 30 new products) or Necrons (~ 20 new products with the new wave) isn't going to happen everyday. Small, filler-releases like Space Wolves (10 new products including the second wave), Blood Angels (9 new products over 2 waves) or Grey Knights (6 new products) can fill some of the holes.

But "removing" a small release like Grey Knights or, likely, Dark Angels isn't going to net another Dark Eldar or Necron release. Removing them would simply mean one release less overall.

So with the “gauntlet” thrown, I won’t be posting anything about 6th and the CSM codex today.

Instead I am going to wait one day to see if we can get others to shake that rumor tree first.

Seriously?

Well, I'm not going to show you mine until you show me yours... How 'bout dem apples?

Zweischneid wrote:[

See. That is where you go wrong. The production pipeline of GW is models, not books. What people paint and play with on the table are models, not books. Unloading major releases like Dark Eldar (~ 30 new products) or Necrons (~ 20 new products with the new wave) isn't going to happen everyday. Small, filler-releases like Space Wolves (10 new products including the second wave), Blood Angels (9 new products over 2 waves) or Grey Knights (6 new products) can fill some of the holes.

But "removing" a small release like Grey Knights or, likely, Dark Angels isn't going to net another Dark Eldar or Necron release. Removing them would simply mean one release less overall.

Surely Chaos and Dark Angels aren't going to be big releases? Most of their tanks/models are already covered in plastic. Which means over a year with the new edition n hobbit before we get anything of note. Basically theres not going to be a big release like Necrons or DE if this rumour is true. 2012 is going to be dry for 40k, no codex early part of the year, rulebook nobody asked for and then chaos. I'd have to wait late 2013 for a big non-marine release since that seems to be how they've done the codexs. So we're getting two small releases (both marine) and a rulebook (which isn't needed) rather than a big release.

To clarify on what is a big/small relese IMO

Big release
*Chaos Daemons (reads like a white dwarf dex as is)
*Craftworld Eldar (need plastic aspect warriors)
*Sisters of Battle (no units currently sold in stores n PDF codex)

'Small' release
*Tau (debatable)
*Dark Angels
*Black Templars
*Chaos Space Marines (they are the big bad guy and could have room to expand; but they already have a huge model range from 3rd ed its just very old)

Its easy to forget how hard GW pushed chaos in 3rd edition around the Eye of terror campaign. Best codex, huge amount of new models, the biggest plastic kit and really there neglect should be seen relative to that fact. Orks are probably in a similar position to Chaos in 4th; they have everything in plastic they concievably need.

Kroothawk wrote:Sometimes he has rumours that turn out true (like Sororitas getting a WD Codex only).

Technically Eternal Warriors (Then known as Dice Like Thunder) were the first with that rumour, well over a year before the WD was actually released.

Wonder if the box will come with a price increase on the DA upgrade sprues and such. I really regret not going nuts with them when they were still 2 for half as much as they are currently.

But I'll certainly buy a couple if they'll get a price hike with the upcoming stuff.

Why don't you wait and see what actually does get released this year instead of the premature complaining

TBD wrote:Why don't you wait and see what actually does get released this year instead of the premature complaining

HERESY!

TBD wrote:Why don't you wait and see what actually does get released this year instead of the premature complaining

Well if I comment on a rumour I don't like then its going to be negative; but it only concerns speculation on if the rumours true. By your logic I shouldn't be prematurely hopeful or glad; which I assume many chaos or DA players would be at this rumour. I'am personally skeptical. Each new edition always brings out new vanilla marines. Vanilla then Dark Angels (or being rolled up) is more likely given the DA being on the painting box.

BoK was pretty accurate with his Necron Rumors, and he did come out with them before Yakface gave us the first big sneak peak.

So, he has a bit of reliability. I know he was the first to talk about Writhing Worldscape.

TBD wrote:Why don't you wait and see what actually does get released this year instead of the premature complaining

Then this wouldn't be the Internet...

I think that Tasteytaste is on the up and up. Like he said, he's trying to shake some of the other rumors loose.

Totalwar makes a point. Some codices will come with huge releases of models and others just 'new' stuff.
Something else to ponder...

April saw a huge release, numbers wise. Something like 170 products.
May is shaping up to be similar... Several Necron kits and a Finecast wave that rivals the initial release.
Rumors for June have flyers... there may be a Codex/WD codex for one of the Armies that doesn't need much in the way of new models.

Call me naive, call me overly hopeful... just don't call me late for supper.

Nvs wrote:Wonder if the box will come with a price increase on the DA upgrade sprues and such. I really regret not going nuts with them when they were still 2 for half as much as they are currently.

But I'll certainly buy a couple if they'll get a price hike with the upcoming stuff.

Once a new Dark Angels release hits something will almost certainly happen to those veteran sprues, you just know it will, so I have been ordering them as well.

Enjoy a good deal while it lasts.

sorry this sounds like "i got nothing, but want to sound like i knew something when that thing comes out" to me, as i always say "lack of evidence, is not evidence"

TBD wrote:Why don't you wait and see what actually does get released this year instead of the premature complaining

This is apparently a novel concept to many posters in this thread, unfortunately.

Brother SRM wrote:

TBD wrote:Why don't you wait and see what actually does get released this year instead of the premature complaining

This is apparently a novel concept to many posters in every single thread ever, unfortunately.

Fixed that for you......

Anpu-adom wrote:Some codices will come with huge releases of models and others just 'new' stuff.
Something else to ponder...

What is there to ponder, really? Some new releases warrant a bigger overhaul of the miniatures line than others.

Necrons and Dark Eldar, both Xenos I might add, got just what they needed: a buttload of new stuff (and yet there still is the whining about Marines getting more love than Xenos). Recent Marine-ish releases simply needed less, as they use codex options already available, so they got a little less new stuff.

GW has been doing a very fine job lately providing us with quality new plastic kits. They can't make everybody happy at once though. That is just the way it is. If they release Dark Angels then Eldar players complain. If they release Eldar then Tau players complain. The Sisters of Battle players complain no matter what. Etc etc.

Once a new Dark Angels codex is released they will probably get the same number of new kits the Space Wolves & Grey Knights got. I expect Chaos to be a larger release if they go with all the god specific options + traitor guard/cult troops.

Brother SRM wrote:

TBD wrote:Why don't you wait and see what actually does get released this year instead of the premature complaining

This is apparently a novel concept to many posters in this thread, unfortunately.

"We polish one another, and rub off our Corners and rough Sides by a sort of amicable Collision"

from Characteristics by the Third Earl of Shaftesbury (1711)



In fact, I'am putting that on my profile.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

TBD wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:Some codices will come with huge releases of models and others just 'new' stuff.
Something else to ponder...

The Sisters of Battle players complain no matter what.

I expect Chaos to be a larger release if they go with all the god specific options + traitor guard/cult troops.

That position is certainly reasonable given they don't have an army or a codex.

Chaos, on second thoughts, could make a big release with new mark units especially and a lot of their stuff is really old from their big push during 3rd. However, it is Codex Chaos Space Marines so the odds of traitors, cultists or Dark mechanicum units being included is unlikely. The seperation of Daemons suggested GW wanted to focus on the big guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TBD wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:Some codices will come with huge releases of models and others just 'new' stuff.
Something else to ponder...

The Sisters of Battle players complain no matter what.

I expect Chaos to be a larger release if they go with all the god specific options + traitor guard/cult troops.

That position is certainly reasonable given they don't have an army or a codex.

Chaos, on second thoughts, could make a big release with new mark units especially and a lot of their stuff is really old from their big push during 3rd. However, it is Codex Chaos Space Marines so the odds of traitors, cultists or Dark mechanicum units being included is unlikely. The seperation of Daemons suggested GW wanted to focus on the big guys.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

TBD wrote:The Sisters of Battle players complain no matter what.

That position is certainly reasonable given they don't have an army or a codex.

We have an army and a codex. It is just that our army and codex are old and only in a WD respectively.

And not all of us complain no matter what. After all, I have been told that I am an Apologist by many members of the board.

cant wait for CSM

Huh ... http://bloodofkittens.com/ is down?

EDIT: Nevermind, they are back up ... DNS hiccup.

Wait, someone getting a codex in the new edition before Space Marines?

I call shenanigans

pretre wrote:[
We have an army and a codex. It is just that our army and codex are old and only in a WD respectively.

And not all of us complain no matter what. After all, I have been told that I am an Apologist by many members of the board.

Yeah, but that old army ain't even sold anymore in stores and is direct only; for prices that blind most people. I only got mine as a gift from a friend and he found them in his loft!

Don't be picky. Back in my day, we had to cast our own Sisters of Battle from melted down spoons! Be lucky that you can even buy them, direct or not.

Alpharius wrote:...because there was no more 'news' or even 'rumors' to discuss, and what was being discussed could have been done in 40K General.

From the looks of it, there's not much new here either, so this thread's already on the clock.

Maybe?

Looking to me like 3 pages may have just about done it...

If this were a political blog, the BoK site would get something akin to a 'clickbait for ad revenue' tag.

He expects people to just believe him and post up? It works the other way around, one person gets pushed off the iceberg first and if the sharks in Nottingham don't get worked up into a froth, the rest follow shark-bait after a day or two.

Remember when GW said Lord of the Rings (the hobbit now too) wouldn't impact the releases for their other games? heh.......

So three pages of posts, no actual rumor... more a rumor of a rumor. Why isn't this thread closed?

Lord Shag wrote:So three pages of posts, no actual rumor... more a rumor of a rumor. Why isn't this thread closed?

So...ummm...I guess...IBTL.

Tasty has been kinda accurate about things in the past. I dont want to believe this is all thats being released but I cant say I'd be surprised. It seems GW releases on average an army update per year, we were lucky to see GK and Necrons this year. If 6th and chaos really are all that comes out, maybe they will actually have everything ready for the chaos codex....but that has not happened with any release I can remmeber.

Lord Shag wrote:So three pages of posts, no actual rumor... more a rumor of a rumor. Why isn't this thread closed?

Wouldn't it make more sense if all rumours were on page one in the first post? Then people would post afterwards with their comments. I believe thats how the necron model rumours are running at the minute, you've got pictures of the second wave ontop of pictures of the origional rumour release rather than putting it on page seventeen of the comments. Much more sense. Posts like this simply keep real rumours from falling down the topic page.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Tasty has been kinda accurate about things in the past. I dont want to believe this is all thats being released but I cant say I'd be surprised. It seems GW releases on average an army update per year, we were lucky to see GK and Necrons this year. If 6th and chaos really are all that comes out, maybe they will actually have everything ready for the chaos codex....but that has not happened with any release I can remmeber.

Two 40k books a year has been the average for a long while so far as I'am aware. Which other years have only had a single book come out? Basically the rule book takes up a slot, so technically we are getting to 40k things if the rumour pans out.

It would if there were actual rumors in the post.....

Been a year since I got interested to w40k, wanting to jump in chaos but people sayng they are under powered. Been a year keeping hearing rumours about 6th ed and a supposed new CSM codex. Kinda boring after a while. If no one has any real rumours, why make a thread ? Just bloc these kind of thread.

So, not sure if this is true for anyone else, but BoK is still down for me. Which sucks, because in the GW media black hole, any rumors are good rumors.

Is there some GW tomfoolery afoot?

pretre wrote:Don't be picky. Back in my day, we had to cast our own Sisters of Battle from melted down spoons! Be lucky that you can even buy them, direct or not.

This needs to be sigged. Those poor spoons...

Oh, I have some rumors to add to this thread! I hope to become a renowned rumor starter like Ghost21!

-The starter box is gonna be Zoats vs. Squats vs Normjidjidjadkjafords!
-There will two codexs for Tau, one for the Empire and the other for the Farsight Enclave!
-Harlequins are getting their own Codex back!
-Grey Knights, Space Wolves, the Legion of the Damned, Sisters of Battle, Death Watch, Blood Angels and Chaos Space Marines will all be incorporated in the new Codex Weird Marines.
-A new race based off a suggestion I sent to Games Workshop in a letter filled with explicit threats is getting a codex called Codex Normjidjidjadkjafords.
-Ultramarines are going to back down in favor of the Red Corsairs, who are the new Space Marine poster boys.
-Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar are merging into one Codex called Codex Non Harlequin Eldar.
-The Imperial Guard are getting a new Codex and a second wave of models before the release of sixth, which will be tomorrow!

1 codex for an entire year is shameful. Especially when one considers the last year has seen 4-5 Fantasy Codex's.

LoneLictor wrote:Oh, I have some rumors to add to this thread! I hope to become a renowned rumor starter like Ghost21!

-The starter box is gonna be Zoats vs. Squats vs Normjidjidjadkjafords!
-There will two codexs for Tau, one for the Empire and the other for the Farsight Enclave!
-Harlequins are getting their own Codex back!
-Grey Knights, Space Wolves, the Legion of the Damned, Sisters of Battle, Death Watch, Blood Angels and Chaos Space Marines will all be incorporated in the new Codex Weird Marines.
-A new race based off a suggestion I sent to Games Workshop in a letter filled with explicit threats is getting a codex called Codex Normjidjidjadkjafords.
-Ultramarines are going to back down in favor of the Red Corsairs, who are the new Space Marine poster boys.
-Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar are merging into one Codex called Codex Non Harlequin Eldar.
-The Imperial Guard are getting a new Codex and a second wave of models before the release of sixth, which will be tomorrow!

Shenanigans. The Minotaurs are the new SM poster boys.

oni wrote:

So with the “gauntlet” thrown, I won’t be posting anything about 6th and the CSM codex today.

Instead I am going to wait one day to see if we can get others to shake that rumor tree first.

Seriously?

Well, I'm not going to show you mine until you show me yours... How 'bout dem apples?

So how about we post some rumours to help shake the tree? I will pretend like I know some rumours and like ten of you can act like you think I am legit. The Mods can delete the posts of those who do not want in on the game.

So this is what I heard...

40K is getting major releases in 2012. To help bring about the Apocalypse, they are releasing Chaos Space Marines a few months before the Mayan Calendar runs out.

2012 is the catch up year. After several lawsuits and IP lawyer changes, GW is now calling 2012 the catch up year. Models that should have came out a few years ago are going to be released sort of like what was going on with the recent Space Wolves and Tyranid releases. So basically the Summer of Flyers releases from awhile back will come out this year. It is not going to be a full on release like Cities of Death, but more or less new models to help the 6th Edition rules release be even more successful.

Since the success of of the Dark Eldar release, GW has pushed to start releasing two 40K codexes a year with each having a 1.5 release (as the community calls it) and a full wave 2 release along with several other mini releases with other armies. The problem is, there are several armies that did not get incorporated into this new time table, such as Tyranids who being the most unpopular army at the moment, will only get waves of models trickled out a few at a time to get those weird 40K players buying stuff.

Now the only exception to the 2 codexes a year rule will be when a new edition comes out. Because a new edition is such a massive undertaking, game developers will put other wish list armies on the back burner until the next year.

This fall there will be new plastic kits for Plague Marines and Chaos Space Marines to go along with the codex release. Thousand Sons will be released in January in finecast and their will be multi-part plastic boxed set contains 111 components with which to build ten Noise Marines or Ten Khorne Berserkers. Wave 2 will also include a new Plastic Defiler and Dred Claw drop pod.

Also Eldar or Tau will be released in February 2013 followed by a Dark Angels release in June 2012 followed by either Tau or Eldar that fall. Squats will make a return but will be nothing like you remember them. Think dreadnought type vehicles with cyborg pilots hardwired into the systems. They will function a lot like the Ogre Kingdoms in fantasy. Troops will consist of groups of 4 Dreadnought sized vehicles and HQs will all be Dreadknight sized.


There rumour tree shaken.

It is now th 27th, his post was on the 25th. He posted nothing new on anything about new rumors. Looks like he just trolled the community for web hits. Must be a revenue thing.

Well he posted. http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/26/network-news-new-csm-codex-rumors

With that said let us get started.

Troops choices will be Chaos Space Marines and Cultists
All Cult Marines are Elites
No new Special Characters
Special Characters will unlock Cult Marines as troops (Kharn for Berserkers and so on)
Typhus makes Cultists into Zombies
Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)
CSM now get a Flyer a Mechanical Chaos Dragon (model is done will be part of initial release)
Lesser and Greater Demons are gone
Spawn replaced by “Fell Beast”

I feel like I am missing something…

Oh yeah…
Almost Forgot...
Rules for Traitor Guard are in!

His website loads awfully slow. Wonder if he's just getting slammed with traffic. Thanks for posting these tidbits. I don't like that they are losing the dread and gaining a dragon? What?

They can't be dropping dreads, come the hell on GW I just spent 2 months of dedicated time making 3 from all the loyalist kits!

Friggin' forgeworld BREATHES dreadnought variants!

I need to see this unfold, it's probably Cruddace or Ward's doing.

See I could half believe the Dragon just because of the recent style of army releases by GW, although most of this seems odd, if not actually daft.

Think BoK has got a troll feeding him info.

An ex-manager friend of mine has essentially hinted at similar things - 2 major 40k releases but then its quiet. Also possibly 2 'surprise' releases

I hope this doesn't happen like this...I'm eagerly anticipating the Chaos 'dex and can't wait for October...

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Think BoK has got a troll feeding him info.

I agree.

Unfortunately, that troll is GW.

Slackermagee wrote:If this were a political blog, the BoK site would get something akin to a 'clickbait for ad revenue' tag.

He expects people to just believe him and post up? It works the other way around, one person gets pushed off the iceberg first and if the sharks in Nottingham don't get worked up into a froth, the rest follow shark-bait after a day or two.

QFT

Eh. I don't really like the look of those rumours, but I do believe them; they sound v. much like something GW would design.
Just to clarify, it sounds to me like Dreadnoughts are basically getting renamed and slightly different rules, but will allow the use of the old models; like Pariahs & Crypteks/lychguard.

Can someone who's got a BoK account ask Tastytaste if there are legion rules, as the description of the special characters may suggest otherwise.
Also, who's writing it?

Harriticus wrote:1 codex for an entire year is shameful. Especially when one considers the last year has seen 4-5 Fantasy Codex's.

Well, but the year before, when Fantasy 8th was released, they only had one armybook as well. This might well be a patter with similarities for 40K.

2012 6th Edition 40K (and one Codex, see 2010 Fantasy)
2013 Several 40K Codexes and possibly an expansion (see 2011 Fantasy Codexes and Magic-Storm-thingy).

BDJV wrote:Well he posted. http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/26/network-news-new-csm-codex-rumors

With that said let us get started.

Troops choices will be Chaos Space Marines and Cultists
All Cult Marines are Elites
No new Special Characters
Special Characters will unlock Cult Marines as troops (Kharn for Berserkers and so on)
Typhus makes Cultists into Zombies
Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)
CSM now get a Flyer a Mechanical Chaos Dragon (model is done will be part of initial release)
Lesser and Greater Demons are gone
Spawn replaced by “Fell Beast”

I feel like I am missing something…

Oh yeah…
Almost Forgot...
Rules for Traitor Guard are in!

I hope this rumour turns out to be bollocks, this all just sounds daft to me.

If this is going to be a Legions Codex then how will there be no daemons, what will happen to Word Bearers?

I just lost my grain of salt.

Has any credible rumour-guy (or girl) confirmed the Legion-thing?

I keep saying that Legion-codex rumour sounds like net-wishlisting taking on a life on its own (largely because it would require massively changing the existing fluff that states fairly clearly that most Legions are defunct, or at best represented by Renegades that have split with their Legion like Ahriman). But since I am on the record as a fan of Corsairs and Renegades, I only ever get accussed of trolling for brining it up. For other reasons than most, perhaps, but I'd also love to know if someone can pinpoint that "Legion-Codex"-rumour with some precision? Anyone?

AlexHolker wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Think BoK has got a troll feeding him info.

I agree.

Unfortunately, that troll is GW.

Actually, the key question here is where is he getting his info?

It just looks like an extrapolation of what most people, or those who spend enough time pondering it, think is probably going to happen, rather than 'I know someone in the development team of GW who told me this' - now that would be a real rumour.

The problem is there have been positively zero leaks from GW over recent months, they are closed up tighter than the arsehole of a man who has eaten nothing but bananas for 2 weeks. Unless there are some leaks from the Polish printing company of WD again, or someone gets very brave and decides to leak something (I'm guessing the penalties must be very harsh, considering this hasn't happened) then we are going to continue to behave like beggar children, sifting through the bins with the hope that someone has inadvertently thrown out a packet of crisps with a few crumbs left in the bottom of it.

Or simply making stuff up, in an attempt to get more site traffic, as I think is the case here.

Yes, the guy with a very accurate track record must just be making it up.

Aye.
He knew pretty much what Yak knew for the Necrons (which was itself a VERY comprehensive leak), so it wouldn't surprise me if he's got a reliable source or an early version of the 'dex, as seemed to be the case with the info Yak was given, IMHO.

That it goes inline with much of what's been said by reliable rumour mongers adds credence too.

Hehe this seems like BS, if this was true I may consider selling my chaos.

Mechanical dragon???? Come on seriously, it just seems... not right
No demons, thats just stupid, sorry bye bye word bearers. Unless he means named demons are back in, then this I love.
SC for cult troops? Personally I never use any SC, it's just not my style and so this is my main dealbreaker, that I have to field a SC to get khorne bezerkers as troops. Actually, I guess I don't mind having them as elites again, yeah I can live with this actually.
Fell beasts now? Sounds cooler but, why change the name?

Meh, just my thoughts on it, don't know if I like or hate these rumours if they were true tbh.

Edit: I have now decided I like these rumours As long as I could make traitor guard then GW can have my wallet.

I do not believe they will drop chaos dreadnoughts as they habe always been in every codex since rogue trader and that just seems rather stupid to me. Dropping daemons and what he is saying about sc's is also hard to believe but the rest seems ok to me (give me back my latd XD)

Hi
God I love a good rumor, but its going on forever.

Were not going to really know until one month before, so why stress, just enjoy iy when and if it comes.

unmercifulconker wrote:Hehe this seems like BS, if this was true I may consider selling my chaos...
this is my main dealbreaker, that I have to field a SC to get khorne bezerkers as troops...
Actually, I guess I don't mind having them as elites again, yeah I can live with this actually...
Meh, just my thoughts on it, don't know if I like or hate these rumours if they were true tbh...
Edit: I have now decided I like these rumours

Say whaaa?

GentlemanGuy wrote:I do not believe they will drop chaos dreadnoughts as they habe always been in every codex since rogue trader and that just seems rather stupid to me. Dropping daemons and what he is saying about sc's is also hard to believe but the rest seems ok to me (give me back my latd XD)

BoK wrote: Chaos Dreadnought is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

The Dreadnought's probably still there, just with a different name and maybe stats etc.

Just Dave wrote:

unmercifulconker wrote:Hehe this seems like BS, if this was true I may consider selling my chaos...
this is my main dealbreaker, that I have to field a SC to get khorne bezerkers as troops...
Actually, I guess I don't mind having them as elites again, yeah I can live with this actually...
Meh, just my thoughts on it, don't know if I like or hate these rumours if they were true tbh...
Edit: I have now decided I like these rumours

Say whaaa?.

Hehe I was going off into my own little world

Just Dave wrote:

The Dreadnought's probably still there, just with a different name and maybe stats etc.

What would the point be though, we have Dreadnoughts already well established in previous codices and Black Library books.

Same as Spawn, I can understand if the Fell Beasts is to be different from Spawn, but if it's just giving it a new poncey name, why bother. We know that a Chaos follower becomes a spawn if he doesn't kick enough or kicks too much ass.

And a Mechanical Dragon... where are they pulling this tonk from?

My level of nerdrage is increasing with every rumour

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

This conflicts with the rumor of a Chaos Dread being in the starter set.

Breotan wrote:

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

This conflicts with the rumor of a Chaos Dread being in the starter set.

Maybe they look very similar and so they thought it was a dread?

Pacific wrote:Actually, the key question here is where is he getting his info?

It just looks like an extrapolation of what most people, or those who spend enough time pondering it, think is probably going to happen, rather than 'I know someone in the development team of GW who told me this' - now that would be a real rumour.

BoK have proven themselves to be an accurate source, even if they seem to always be the bearers of bad news. When they say that there's only going to be one codex this year it's possible that they're simply missing some of the information, but when they say GW is continuing to run Chaos into the ground, I believe them.

Breotan wrote:

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

This conflicts with the rumor of a Chaos Dread being in the starter set.

Not if that Chaos "Dread" in the yet-to-come starter-box is gonna get the new name. But either way, two rumours conflict each other? That's the nature of rumours isn't it?

Mechanical Chaos Dragon and Fell Beasts?

Seems Legit...

Someone at Warseer made a good point (how rare is that!) that the "removal" of Dreadnoughts and Spawn could really just be folding them into broader, highly customizable unit entries.

Like a single Daemon Engine entry that could cover Dreads, Defilers, Mecha Dragons, Rending Ponies or whatever.

Rending Ponies.

Welp.

There goes my budget.

Codex: Ponies is go.

Medium of Death wrote:Mechanical Chaos Dragon and Fell Beasts?

Seems Legit...

Funny thing is, that stuff is so out there that it gains a new kind of credibility all its own. It comes from a known rumour-monger with, presumably, an interest to keep his blog and reputation alive. It may just be an elaborate troll, but if it is, he's gonna sell his "rep" for this for a lifetime of "Lolz, just like the 40K-Chaos Dragon back in 2012? Riiiightt?". Unless its a final sucide-troll-run, I would think he'd not post something quite so outlandish if he hadn't something to back it up.

Mechanical Dragon does sound like the kind of large new kit Chaos likes to produce these days, like the Dreadknight, Tombstalker, Tyrannofex and WHFB stuff.

Mechanical dragon sounds goofy and impractical. Yeah, that kind of sums up Chaos' Saturday morning cartoon villainy, but that just sounds out of left field. I'm hoping I see some misunderstanding with "Special Characters" unlocking cult units as troops, and instead it's just appropriately marked Chaos Lords unlocking them. Finally, the Dreadnought thing is probably just a renaming, like how the Ork Dreadnought became a Deff Dread.

Just Dave wrote:Aye.
He knew pretty much what Yak knew for the Necrons (which was itself a VERY comprehensive leak), so it wouldn't surprise me if he's got a reliable source or an early version of the 'dex, as seemed to be the case with the info Yak was given, IMHO.

Which came first? The rumour from Yakface or BoK?

AlexHolker wrote:BoK have proven themselves to be an accurate source, even if they seem to always be the bearers of bad news. When they say that there's only going to be one codex this year it's possible that they're simply missing some of the information, but when they say GW is continuing to run Chaos into the ground, I believe them.

The problem is that they have been wrong with more than one rumour in the past, so you can't except everything they say as being a done deal.

In conclusion: Really, the OP is nothing new at all, more an attempt to fish for news, and more importantly (for them) just an attempt to get more hits on the site. They've shown in the past that they will do anything to achieve this including plagiarising other people's work from their blogs, then making out if was something written by themselves.

Personally i can believe these rumours even if they are dishearting i mean really GW do you want to make me buy into privateer press all you have to do is say so.
on a more helpful note i do trust BoK as he was pretty direct hit with the greyknights and newcrons but there just seems to be a little....feeling i've got when he says its not the quick fix we want? does this mean that 6th edition going to be bad? bland? boring? i'm really scared in their attempts to change the game their going to break it

I'm...OK with this.

I mean, as an IW player, mechanical dragon sounds awesome!

Pacific wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Aye.
He knew pretty much what Yak knew for the Necrons (which was itself a VERY comprehensive leak), so it wouldn't surprise me if he's got a reliable source or an early version of the 'dex, as seemed to be the case with the info Yak was given, IMHO.

Which came first? The rumour from Yakface or BoK?

Bit of both apparently; BoK came out with the details on the Overlord and C'tan, then Yak came out with everything else, which supported BoK's stuff. Then Tasty basically said that yaks right IIRC.

It's worth noting that Tasty released his Necron info in a similar manner, which similarly annoyed some.


Tbh, I'm not really seeing any reason we shouldn't believe him.

These rumors don't sound all that encouraging, or good at all.

The only think I've seen so far that I like is the option for "Traitor Guard".

The rest... not so much.

Still, it is early!

As long as the traitor guard would be fun and unique, rather than regular guard with the word traitor at the start.

Bramgaunt added:

As far as I've been told the unlock thing is correct, BUT!
Kharn, Ahriman etc unlock cult troops as general troop choices, as many as you whish. I heard that for each general HQ choice you grant a mark of a Chaos God, you can take one Cult Unit as core aswell. So, an army with Kharn could have as many Units of Berzerkers to go along with him as he whishes, because he's usually surounded by these guys. If you 'only' have a Chaos General with Khorne's favor he still may grant one unit of his favorites to the general to support his cause.
I was also told that you would have to name one of your HQs as your army's general, because that's the one who'll give you troop choices. So if you had Ahriman and Kharn, you'd have to pick between berzerkers and Thousand Sons as troop choices, you won't have both.

All of this sounded somehow logical to me, so i forwarded it to you guys. But it could be guesswork or fabrication, so, take it with salt.

Seems better?

So if you had no SC you could have one cult unit as troops and the rest would be elites?

Seems legit
I like the system I wonder if you have to say that in army list or start of game as it could really change your forces around?

I'll give you a hint GW already has a fell beast in the LotR range, do you think there license agreement with allow them to release a model with an identical name in it's other range?

No.

Mechanical dragon?

Absolute tosh.

This all about just generating ad revenue for his blog. There are no rumours to be found here, this thread should be locked.

Im not such a fan of buy this HQ to unlock this squad... In all honesty I dont think Kharn should be a HQ at all anyway. Going by his fluff he will kill anything he can get hs axe into. What he should be is a Squad upgrade with the IC special rule. So he can break off from the squad if he wants. Same goes for Lucius and Fabius. Though I agree with Just Dave that Fabius should be an elite choice.

Yeah but it's not exactly called a fellbeast though on the box.

There are also dwarf warriors for LOTR and WHFB.

To give BoK some credit, they did get the Necron and Sisters of Battle rumours right as well, and people had trouble believing them then too.

I find these rumors very encouraging; while most seem disappointed these rumors imply a comprehensive reworking of chaos. That is something they've needed.

Breotan wrote:

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

This conflicts with the rumor of a Chaos Dread being in the starter set.

It's pretty much the same unit but different name. I'd venture to guess that chaos dreadnoughts are being renamed into a more inclusive category, a unit that includes the likes of a variety of chaos constructs. Take the blood slaughterer for example, it's a daemon engine, but it's effectually similar to a dreadnought of khorne. In pursuit of giving people god or legion specific dreadnought like units they decided it best to make it one new unit with options as opposed to a number of individual units without any.

aka_mythos wrote:I find these rumors very encouraging; while most seem disappointed these rumors imply a comprehensive reworking of chaos. That is something they've needed.

I agree.

Breotan wrote:

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

This conflicts with the rumor of a Chaos Dread being in the starter set.

It's pretty much the same unit but different name. I'd venture to guess that chaos dreadnoughts are being renamed into a more inclusive category, a unit that includes the likes of a variety of chaos constructs. Take the blood slaughterer for example, it's a daemon engine, but it's effectually similar to a dreadnought of khorne. In pursuit of giving people god or legion specific dreadnought like units they decided it best to make it one new unit with options as opposed to a number of individual units without any.

BDJV wrote:Well he posted. http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/26/network-news-new-csm-codex-rumors

Okay, let's see...

With that said let us get started.

Yes, let's!

Troops choices will be Chaos Space Marines and Cultists
All Cult Marines are Elites
No new Special Characters
Special Characters will unlock Cult Marines as troops (Kharn for Berserkers and so on)

Thank you Nostradamus. We've only had these rumors for how long now?

Typhus makes Cultists into Zombies

I can't say I'm surprised he would post this. Most of his "rumors" tend to be logical progressions/wishlisting. Plague Zombies were a part of the Vraksian Renegade list dedicated to Nurgle, and in some ideas relating to Nurgle Cultists it would be flatout remiss to not include Plague Zombies.

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

Calling bollocks. Dreadnaughts have been a part of Chaos for as long as I can remember, and for that matter the removal of Pariahs and their replacement with Lychguard was not simply for the sake of a new unit. The fluff on them was silly, and I'm glad they are gone. Humans harvested and placed into Necrontyr bodies--oh, but wait not just any humans. Those with the Pariah gene--an exceedingly rare gene, mind you.

Dreadnaughts have worked.

CSM now get a Flyer a Mechanical Chaos Dragon (model is done will be part of initial release)

Uh...huh. So now we're adding a flying, robodragon?

Lesser and Greater Demons are gone

Again: nothing new, rumorwise.

Spawn replaced by “Fell Beast”

Hard to believe. "Beasts" seem more like y'know...something we'd see in a Daemons book, not here.

I feel like I am missing something…

Oh yeah…
Almost Forgot...
Rules for Traitor Guard are in!

And this right here pretty much is putting the nail in the coffin for any believability.

If "Traitor Guard" are in, I sincerely doubt they'd simply call them "Traitor Guardsmen". They'd probably just be labeled "Traitors" or something like that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redemption wrote:To give BoK some credit, they did get the Necron and Sisters of Battle rumours right as well, and people had trouble believing them then too.

Sisters of Battle rumors existed waaaaaaaaay before they posted them. The Necron rumors that they had posed a problem as--much like this case--when it was posted that "We have some news to bring you!", their website was inaccessible for awhile.

Bavius wrote:His website loads awfully slow. Wonder if he's just getting slammed with traffic. Thanks for posting these tidbits. I don't like that they are losing the dread and gaining a dragon? What?

I can't get to the site at all. Between four devices and two entirely different locations... BoK never loads. I have a hard time believing anything from a website that seemingly doesn't even exist.

Oh, and re: Cultists, I hope they get a plastic kit that looks like the DoW2 cultists.

Zweischneid wrote:Has any credible rumour-guy (or girl) confirmed the Legion-thing?

I keep saying that Legion-codex rumour sounds like net-wishlisting taking on a life on its own (largely because it would require massively changing the existing fluff that states fairly clearly that most Legions are defunct, or at best represented by Renegades that have split with their Legion like Ahriman). But since I am on the record as a fan of Corsairs and Renegades, I only ever get accussed of trolling for brining it up. For other reasons than most, perhaps, but I'd also love to know if someone can pinpoint that "Legion-Codex"-rumour with some precision? Anyone?

No, you just get accused of trolling because you're wrong (a lot of the time).

As for these rumors, I can't say I'm a huge fan. Yes, let's remove Daemons. But hey, you get a dragon! Yeaaaah I'll pass. Worst comes to worst, I keep using Spacewolves for my World Eaters force.

Have there been any rumors of Chaos Attributes/Mutations coming back? This will be a huge deal breaker/deal maker for me. In order to "fix" Chaos we need to go back to its roots, not keep adding and removing crap that nobody wants.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

unmercifulconker wrote:

Breotan wrote:

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

This conflicts with the rumor of a Chaos Dread being in the starter set.

Maybe they look very similar and so they thought it was a dread?

Like the Decimator Daemon Engine from Forgeworld?

aka_mythos wrote:It's pretty much the same unit but different name. I'd venture to guess that chaos dreadnoughts are being renamed into a more inclusive category, a unit that includes the likes of a variety of chaos constructs. Take the blood slaughterer for example, it's a daemon engine, but it's effectually similar to a dreadnought of khorne. In pursuit of giving people god or legion specific dreadnought like units they decided it best to make it one new unit with options as opposed to a number of individual units without any.

I had forgotten about the blood slaughterers. Also, with all of the Legion Dreadnoughts that Forge World makes, wouldn't they just call them Daemon Engines or something else rather than make them 100% obsolete? Seems silly to drop an entire line of models (Chaos Dreadnoughts) from Forge World.

Yeah, I can just see it becoming a bit more open. It could be a dreadnought, decimator, blood slaughterer, daemon engine, whatever. Hell, it might even encourage conversions!

Someone called 'Clarify_leak' posted on Warseer:

Just a quick one to clarify a rather hilarious mistake; GW is working on a 'dragon' for 40k. Just not for Chaos.


EDIT: tried contacting Blood of Kittens directly, but their server is down.

CSM now get a Flyer a Mechanical Chaos Dragon (model is done will be part of initial release)

My reliable source on the inside has let slip a little more info regarding this new model.

This creature is called the Chaos Harbinger (although most people just call it a dragon). it's mechanical, but not completely, and has nasty flesh bits on the model (kind of like Obliterators).

Its stats are mostly in line with the Trygon's (plus wings, of course). Breath of Chaos is a given (flamer that wounds on 4+ and ignores armor).

Under the 6e rules, it will become one of only two units in existence that will count as both MC and Flyer (the Harpy is the other one). If the Harbinger chooses to utilize the Flyer's rate of speed, it won't be able to shoot or assault (but may still make a strafe attack, see below).

The creature can be taken as a Heavy Support choice, or it can be used as a mount by a Chaos Lord.

If used as a mount, it counts as a one-man transport for the Lord. Shooting attacks hit the Harbinger, while close combat attacks can be allocated to either the Lord or the Harbinger.

During the Movement phase, a Harbinger can make a "Strafe" attack against one unit that he moves over during the phase. The Harbinger is lined up facing the unit, moves straight ahead (kind of like a tank shock), and any model that its base passes over takes a hit from its breath weapon. If it makes this attack, it can't shoot its breath weapon in the Shooting phase, but can still assault in the Assault phase, provided it didn't move too far.

My source also hinted that the model would serve as a basis for a similar addition to the new Daemon codex (however far in the future that is). The creature will be able to serve as a mount for Skulltaker, who will be able to fly across the table chopping people's heads off on a 4+.

And there were some not-so-subtle hints that the use of a MC as a transport would pave the way for more such models, including (finally) the oft-rumored Transportofex.

I have to say, I'm pretty excited about this new model. It might be a little OTT, but I think it'll fit into the Chaos Space Marine fluff nicely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redemption wrote:Someone called 'Clarify_leak' posted on Warseer:

Just a quick one to clarify a rather hilarious mistake; GW is working on a 'dragon' for 40k. Just not for Chaos.


EDIT: tried contacting Blood of Kittens directly, but their server is down.

Someone made an account just to clarify a rumor? Definitely a troll, because it conflicts with my inside info.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to clarify, /sarcasm.

But if GW did do it, I think they'd do it like that.

The Chaos Flying Dragon has been leaked!

The scary thing, this is kind of how I imagined it, or maybe mecha-godzilla

Cerebrium wrote:I'm...OK with this.

I mean, as an IW player, mechanical dragon sounds awesome!

I agree. The only issue...its GW. They have a habit of Dropping the ball on things that could be totally epic...the Dreadknight for example.




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Brother SRM wrote:The Chaos Flying Dragon has been leaked!

Sadly I can picture them doing almost exactly that...

Brother SRM wrote:The Chaos Flying Dragon has been leaked!

This pic looks accurate, but it doesn't reveal the most devastating feature of the Chaos Harbinger.

When you take two Dragons as mounts and three as Heavy Support choices, you end up with five dragons. If you do this, you can combine all five into a mighty beast that bears no small resemblance to a depraved Chaos Voltron!

The models will actually be able to combine, by the way. In a daring feat of corporate legerdemain, GW has stealthily acquired the rights to Transformers from Hasbro, and we'll be seeing more transforming and combination kits from them in the future.

Edit: At $57.00 (US) each, we're looking at $285 for the whole kit. I can hear those GW corporate heads cackling manically already!

Redemption wrote:Someone called 'Clarify_leak' posted on Warseer:

Just a quick one to clarify a rather hilarious mistake; GW is working on a 'dragon' for 40k. Just not for Chaos.


EDIT: tried contacting Blood of Kittens directly, but their server is down.

The only dragon in 40k I know of is the void dragon.......

If we're going off actual things named "dragons" there's the Void Dragon and the Dragon C'Tan.

However, if one were to think of what could translate or best be described as a "dragon"...

There's always the Harridan.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

Mechanical dragon?

Absolute tosh.

My thought is this: What would a 40k scale update of the Doomwing look like? It was mechanical with wings and had a skeletal dragon sort of head... So I've heard crazier.

We only have 4 real examples of chaos flyers the two FW ones and the epic pieces which both look like dragons.

Plastic Fire Dragons?

Redemption wrote:Someone called 'Clarify_leak' posted on Warseer:

Just a quick one to clarify a rather hilarious mistake; GW is working on a 'dragon' for 40k. Just not for Chaos.


EDIT: tried contacting Blood of Kittens directly, but their server is down.

Blood of Kittens saying there will be a Chaos mecha-dragon is of value, even if it proves to be false: at worst, it allows us to better evaluate the accuracy of BoK's rumours in the future. Some nobody saying there's a dragon somewhere in 40k is too vague to be useful.

Yeah, we should really keep a scorecard thread in News and Rumors. Everytime a new 'rumor monger' pops up, we track their rumors and when the release is made they get a pass/fail/pending rating.

Kinda like that site that does truthiness testing on political candidates.

BDJV wrote:Well he posted. http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/26/network-news-new-csm-codex-rumors

With that said let us get started.

Troops choices will be Chaos Space Marines and Cultists
All Cult Marines are Elites
No new Special Characters
Special Characters will unlock Cult Marines as troops (Kharn for Berserkers and so on)
Typhus makes Cultists into Zombies
Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)
CSM now get a Flyer a Mechanical Chaos Dragon (model is done will be part of initial release)
Lesser and Greater Demons are gone
Spawn replaced by “Fell Beast”

I feel like I am missing something…

Oh yeah…
Almost Forgot...
Rules for Traitor Guard are in!

I don't get it. Does Typhus make plague-ies troops AND cultists zombies? Because there aren't any other nurgle special characters. That would be epic if you could have plague marines and zombies (hopefully at a slightly cheaper price?). Kind of silly to make Typhus, Kharn, Ahriman and Fabius unlock cult troops, considering they have almost nothing to do with their original legions, and usually run off on their own campaigns. Ahriman is far too expensive to make taking thousand sons worth it.

No new characters? Sounds like Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Night Lords and Alpha Legion will be oddly left out of such a great opportunity...

Mechanical chaos dragon? Oh god I loled. GW, you're running out of ideas. OR the poster just has no creativity making up bunk rumours.

Interested to see what they do with dreadnoughts, although I may or may not like it at all. Dreadnoughts are a familiar sight, and a familiar name that's gone hand in hand with 40k for a very long time.... It makes no sense to arbitrarily ret-con them.

Lesser and greater daemons are gone? What's the purpose of the Legion codex then? Plenty of existing legions use daemons or have the capability to use them.

Calling foul on these rumours. None of this makes any sense, and if they are indeed true, GW is wasting a valuable opportunity to right the wrongs they've done to the chaos community. I may very well just drop the game entirely if this codex doesn't put anything new on the table, so to speak. I'd be more than happy to sell this ugly blob of plastic that's sitting on my shelf.

I hope there is a mechanical chaos dragon! So maybe all these awful monsters in WFB can have a home in my apoc games for 40k

If he got the army wrong, I could see a flying daemon engine fitting into Chaos Daemons rather nicely. It'd fill their "flyer" slot that every codex seems to be getting now.

I really didn't think we'd see Traitors, Cultists and Plague Zombies in a CSM codex given GW's stance on LatD. But the rumor was that one of the designers made a good proposal for Traitor Guard a while back that was ultimately rejected. So maybe some of those concepts made it into the CSM book, I dunno.

Samus_aran115 wrote:
I don't get it. Does Typhus make plague-ies troops AND cultists zombies? Because there aren't any other nurgle special characters. That would be epic if you could have plague marines and zombies (hopefully at a slightly cheaper price?). Kind of silly to make Typhus, Kharn, Ahriman and Fabius unlock cult troops, considering they have almost nothing to do with their original legions, and usually run off on their own campaigns. Ahriman is far too expensive to make taking thousand sons worth it.

The simple fact is even if they aren't strictly speaking Legion anymore they characterize the chaos legions as they make themselves apparent to the Imperium. GW would create redundancy in creating characters that effectively represent the same thing.

Of course the flying dragon definately won't be a void dragon Phoenix bomber, no siree!

Why do GW have this mad insistence of inflicting special characters on people just so they can play themed lists?

I sincerely hope that a standard HQ choice with the appropriate mark will also unlock cult choices as troops.

As for these fresh rumour most of them are simply rehashes of old rumours and the dragon sounds so astonishingly bad that I wouldn't be in the least surprised if it is true.

Palindrome wrote:Why do GW have this mad insistence of inflicting special characters on people just so they can play themed lists?

Because they make more money by forcing you to buy a Finecast special character to play the army you want to than allowing you to play that army with a generic plastic HQ kit.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Palindrome wrote:Why do GW have this mad insistence of inflicting special characters on people just so they can play themed lists?

Because they make more money by forcing you to buy a Finecast special character to play the army you want to than allowing you to play that army with a generic plastic HQ kit.

Or you can make it out a plastic kit.

Every SC can be kitbashed, and if they can't, 5 bucks of plasticard and a bit of GS will do it.

I don't own a single GW SC (Besides Arjac), but somehow own them all.

people just convert counts-as characters from plastic. They shouldn't have to, though. Typhus doesn't lead every single Death Guard skirmish, Ahriman doesn't personally command every single Thousand Sons force, it makes no sense to make them a requirement.

I was hoping these rumours (true or false) would get me excited for a new chaos book, but it's just making me worried more than anything.

I dont know how anyone would thing 40K chaos robo-dragon is what Chaos fans would rather have instead of just taking them back to their roots and simply making a varied and viable codex.

Charax wrote:people just convert counts-as characters from plastic. They shouldn't have to, though. Typhus doesn't lead every single Death Guard skirmish, Ahriman doesn't personally command every single Thousand Sons force, it makes no sense to make them a requirement.

Keep in mind that SC are just unique versions of normal characters with unique abilities. It is clearly stated that just because you take Typhus in your army doesn't mean that it is actually Typhus. By choosing a specific SC to do the unlock, you create a known quantity for you, the rules and your opponent. Not saying they can't do it with generics, but it may be 'easier' to do it this way.

Gorechild wrote:I was hoping these rumours (true or false) would get me excited for a new chaos book, but it's just making me worried more than anything.

Agreed.

My Fandex is looking mighty tempting right now!

I dont know how anyone would thing 40K chaos robo-dragon is what Chaos fans would rather have instead of just taking them back to their roots and simply making a varied and viable codex.

That's one of the things I dislike about all these big ol' new kits and rules etc; they sell.
Same with Mat Ward's rules; they sell.

Most Dakkanauts and/or veterans seem to usually dislike them, but they sell.

I certainly hope troops are also unlocked by marked generic lords/sorcerers/princes. It would really be a slap in the face that because a certain special character turns out terrible (we can't be naive enough to think they'll all be good here) that you'll never get to play with certain cults as troops.

morgendonner wrote:I certainly hope troops are also unlocked by marked generic lords/sorcerers/princes. It would really be a slap in the face that because a certain special character turns out terrible (we can't be naive enough to think they'll all be good here) that you'll never get to play with certain cults as troops.

It might be unfortunate, but it certainly won't be a SITF.


We have many codexes with unlocks based on Special Characters and the world hasn't ended yet. I will not be at all surprised if C: CSM does it as well.

pretre wrote:Keep in mind that SC are just unique versions of normal characters with unique abilities. It is clearly stated that just because you take Typhus in your army doesn't mean that it is actually Typhus. By choosing a specific SC to do the unlock, you create a known quantity for you, the rules and your opponent. Not saying they can't do it with generics, but it may be 'easier' to do it this way.

you say "Create a known quantity", I say "Paying 200+ points to have a character I don't want in my army, just to get back an option which isn't unbalanced (because if it were unbalanced, it wouldn't be an option even for typhus) and which has been the core of my army for more than half the editions of 40K that have ever been released"

Sasori wrote:BoK was pretty accurate with his Necron Rumors, and he did come out with them before Yakface gave us the first big sneak peak.

So, he has a bit of reliability. I know he was the first to talk about Writhing Worldscape.

I think you are specifically talking about BadTaste who posted on BOK...vs Tastytaste who is a differnet poster on BOK (site founder I believe too) and is the one who first leaked the rumor about Sister's WD article and also stated that the 6th ED starter set would not include IG, Xenos, or UltraMarine early on.

Badtaste's initial post did predate Yak, but was edited shortly after Yak's big release and was largely a rant against the reliability of most of the current rumors concerning Necrons at the time. Badtaste's more detailed reviewsconcerning specific units, which is what I think you are refering to, came after Yak's first two rumor posts. Badtaste's rumors still introduced new information though.

Anyways, BOK has had several rumors posted on its site that indeed came true and thus shouldn't be discounted.

BoK is down for me.

Looks like no "rumors" today.

I dislike the idea of Chaos Characters/HQ's in general being force multipliers or being required to unlock troops.

To me, it kind of goes against the selfish, vanity of the Chaos Lords if they act as force multipliers. I like that differentiation between them and their loyalist counterparts; that the loyalists contribute to the force more as a whole, whereas the Chaos characters are much more dangerous, but contribute less overall.
Particularly, as some don't even really associate themselves with their Legion any more, such as Kharn or Ahriman.

I do believe Huron and Abaddon should be exceptions to this however.

Charax wrote:you say "Create a known quantity", I say "Paying 200+ points to have a character I don't want in my army, just to get back an option which isn't unbalanced (because if it were unbalanced, it wouldn't be an option even for typhus) and which has been the core of my army for more than half the editions of 40K that have ever been released"

You can say this about a lot of things that existed in 'half the editions of 40k that have ever been released'. Just because something is a holy cow, doesn't mean that we should worship it.


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Just Dave wrote:I dislike the idea of Chaos Characters/HQ's in general being force multipliers or being required to unlock troops.

To me, it kind of goes against the selfish, vanity of the Chaos Lords if they act as force multipliers. I like that differentiation between them and their loyalist counterparts; that the loyalists contribute to the force more as a whole, whereas the Chaos characters are much more dangerous, but contribute less overall.
Particularly, as some don't even really associate themselves with their Legion any more, such as Kharn or Ahriman.

I do believe Huron and Abaddon should be exceptions to this however.

Chances are they probably will be. I kind of like this argument though. Chaos Lords shouldn't make their force more effective except in rare circumstance, since most folks are just looking for a chance to supplant the big guy.

I disagree that unlocking cult troops is a force multiplier though.

Just Dave wrote:I dislike the idea of Chaos Characters/HQ's in general being force multipliers or being required to unlock troops.

To me, it kind of goes against the selfish, vanity of the Chaos Lords if they act as force multipliers. I like that differentiation between them and their loyalist counterparts; that the loyalists contribute to the force more as a whole, whereas the Chaos characters are much more dangerous, but contribute less overall.
Particularly, as some don't even really associate themselves with their Legion any more, such as Kharn or Ahriman.

I do believe Huron and Abaddon should be exceptions to this however.

The way I would do it is with a retinue system. It's not so much that Chaos characters are trying to aid their minions but, for example, Chosen of Khorne will refuse to follow any leader who does not bear the Mark of Khorne.

AlexHolker wrote:The way I would do it is with a retinue system. It's not so much that Chaos characters are trying to aid their minions but, for example, Chosen of Khorne will refuse to follow any leader who does not bear the Mark of Khorne.

Not a bad idea. It fits the fluff as well.

You can similarly say that even the cult troops of a specific god would be rare in the retinues of unmarked Lords. They might show up, but would be fewer in number. Whereas a marked Lord would obviously have a lot of cult troops hanging around.

pretre wrote:

Charax wrote:people just convert counts-as characters from plastic. They shouldn't have to, though. Typhus doesn't lead every single Death Guard skirmish, Ahriman doesn't personally command every single Thousand Sons force, it makes no sense to make them a requirement.

Keep in mind that SC are just unique versions of normal characters with unique abilities. It is clearly stated that just because you take Typhus in your army doesn't mean that it is actually Typhus. By choosing a specific SC to do the unlock, you create a known quantity for you, the rules and your opponent. Not saying they can't do it with generics, but it may be 'easier' to do it this way.

That still doesn't really make any sense. So what you are saying is that you have to take a character in terminator armor in order to unlock death guard troops? Not buying these rumors.

Let's pretend we're talking about the SW codex for a second and replace the word Death with Wolf.

brettz123 wrote:That still doesn't really make any sense. So what you are saying is that you have to take a character in terminator armor in order to unlock Wolf guard troops? Not buying these rumors.

Yes, you have to take Logan to unlock Wolf Guard as troops.

See how that works?

If steel dragon is true, that could mean lots of Draon Univers toys being sold. The eggs for Tyranids for Myceotic Spore Pod, wich I use and now the dragon inside can be used for Chaos. All for $15 if I am not mistaken.

http://dragons.megabloks.com/#/toys/predavor/7

brettz123 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Charax wrote:people just convert counts-as characters from plastic. They shouldn't have to, though. Typhus doesn't lead every single Death Guard skirmish, Ahriman doesn't personally command every single Thousand Sons force, it makes no sense to make them a requirement.

Keep in mind that SC are just unique versions of normal characters with unique abilities. It is clearly stated that just because you take Typhus in your army doesn't mean that it is actually Typhus. By choosing a specific SC to do the unlock, you create a known quantity for you, the rules and your opponent. Not saying they can't do it with generics, but it may be 'easier' to do it this way.

That still doesn't really make any sense. So what you are saying is that you have to take a character in terminator armor in order to unlock death guard troops? Not buying these rumors.

No. That's not what he's saying, at all.


What he is saying is that special characters can be used as a sort of "archetype" with which one can build upon to represent a particular character of their own creation(a Mary Sue if you will!).

For example:
Imagine you have a special lord who you have written fluff for.
You're not going to want to simply use the "generic" profile, it's just not heroic enough for him.

You're going to want to use a "heroic" profile for him--so you use Typhus, as it is the closest representative for him and the troops under his command.

Kanluwen wrote:For example:
Imagine you have a special lord who you have written fluff for.
You're not going to want to simply use the "generic" profile, it's just not heroic enough for him.

You're going to want to use a "heroic" profile for him--so you use Typhus, as it is the closest representative for him and the troops under his command.

My army's led by a Daemon Prince. Kinda hard to shoehorn him into the Typhus archetype

These rumors sound completely off, and not what I have been hearing otherwise. If they are true then my army will be made completely redundant because my whole army is plague marines.

Yes, you have to take Logan to unlock Wolf Guard as troops.

See how that works?

No one owned wolf guard armies prior to this. See the difference?

I have no issue with SCs unlocking special FOC builds or a few neat tricks. But this is a bit heavy handed. I can still run Salamanders without Vulkan, its not as cool but I am not entirely screwed should I choose not to. That doesn't appear to be the case here and its going to really tick people off if it comes to pass. Belial was bad enough but workable (cause DA had such terrible HQ options anyways) but this just takes the cake.

Arm.chair.general wrote:These rumors sound completely off, and not what I have been hearing otherwise. If they are true then my army will be made completely redundant because my whole army is plague marines.

Or you can take the character that gets you plagues as troops. Poof, not redundant.


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winterman wrote:The only problem with that is what if I want my deathguard to be led by a non-terminator? Or my world eaters to be led by a bad ass terminator like the FW one. etc etc.

You can still run World Eaters without all Khorne Berserkers or Death Guard without all Plague Marines. I see it happen all the time.

Kanluwen wrote:What he is saying is that special characters can be used as a sort of "archetype" with which one can build upon to represent a particular character of their own creation(a Mary Sue if you will!).

For example:
Imagine you have a special lord who you have written fluff for.
You're not going to want to simply use the "generic" profile, it's just not heroic enough for him.

You're going to want to use a "heroic" profile for him--so you use Typhus, as it is the closest representative for him and the troops under his command.

To me - and many others - that should work the other way round:
Imagine you have a special lord you have written fluff for.
You're not going to want to simply use some "universal" profile (read: a special character), it's not the character you've created, but rather some named character with set rules, set fluff and included in several armies.

I can understand why GW use the Special-character-unlock method, but to me it's not entirely 'fair' and is pretty 'heavy-handed'. Why can't another or standard HQ choice do the same? Why can't I use my own character if I want to run a fluffy army?

I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like being forced to use a generic character.

Just Dave wrote:I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like being forced to use a generic character.

You're not being forced to use a generic character; you are being forced to use a specific character.

You can still run World Eaters without all Khorne Berserkers or Death Guard without all Plague Marines. I see it happen all the time.

People work with what they got, doesn't make it right.

Well I personally think any sort of robot dragon is pretty awesome. And making a Thousand Sons army with Ahriman sounds good to me. Looking forward to the codex!

Just Dave wrote:Bit of both apparently; BoK came out with the details on the Overlord and C'tan, then Yak came out with everything else, which supported BoK's stuff. Then Tasty basically said that yaks right IIRC.

It's worth noting that Tasty released his Necron info in a similar manner, which similarly annoyed some.


Tbh, I'm not really seeing any reason we shouldn't believe him.

According to my notes it was more like Badtaste posts a rant on BOK about bunk rumors, then Yak posts some rumors, then Badtaste edits original post to state that Yak is correct, then Yak posts more rumors, then Badtaste starts posting rumors on specific units (first about Necron Lords and then Cytan) that are more much more detailed and specific then Yak.

People got upset with Badtaste because the nature of his posts was intentionally demeaning

pretre wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like being forced to use a generic character.

You're not being forced to use a generic character; you are being forced to use a specific character.

One and the same really IMHO.
I'd say 3 armies using Typhus is more generic than three armies using Chaos Lords using completely different set-ups.


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wyomingfox wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Bit of both apparently; BoK came out with the details on the Overlord and C'tan, then Yak came out with everything else, which supported BoK's stuff. Then Tasty basically said that yaks right IIRC.

It's worth noting that Tasty released his Necron info in a similar manner, which similarly annoyed some.


Tbh, I'm not really seeing any reason we shouldn't believe him.

According to my notes it was more like Badtaste posts a rant on BOK about bunk rumors, then Yak posts some rumors, then Badtaste edits original post to state that Yak is correct, then Yak posts more rumors, then Badtaste starts posting rumors on specific units (first about Necron Lords and then Cytan) that are more much more detailed and specific then Yak.

People got upset with Badtaste because the nature of his posts was intentionally demeaning

Aaaah, thanks for the clarity. Apologies for les confusion.
You're definitely right about the demeaning thing too.

Just Dave wrote:
To me - and many others - that should work the other way round:
Imagine you have a special lord you have written fluff for.
You're not going to want to simply use some "universal" profile (read: a special character), it's not the character you've created, but rather some named character with set rules, set fluff and included in several armies.

I can understand why GW use the Special-character-unlock method, but to me it's not entirely 'fair' and is pretty 'heavy-handed'. Why can't another or standard HQ choice do the same? Why can't I use my own character if I want to run a fluffy army?

I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like being forced to use a generic character.

Here is something which is never really considered.

Generic characters can take alternate loads of wargear. Specific characters cannot.

Regarding the pretty ridiculous-sounding concept of the Chaos mecha-dragon, I need only remind other readers that when rumors came out for the GK Baby-Carrier, everyone thought that was completely loopy, too. I know I called shenanigans on it.

Sadly, I was wrong.

pretre wrote:

Arm.chair.general wrote:These rumors sound completely off, and not what I have been hearing otherwise. If they are true then my army will be made completely redundant because my whole army is plague marines.

Or you can take the character that gets you plagues as troops. Poof, not redundant.

And what if your 'Deathguard Captain' is actually in power armour being carried on his palanquin? Or what if your 'captain' is actually a sorcerer? Or what if your 'captain' is characterised by his pair of lightning claws w/built-in combi-plasma?! Poof, totally redundant model/s that now need replacing and/or won't see the table nearly as often because you're forced to sink 200+ pts into a specific termie armour + daemon weapon build.

pretre wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

winterman wrote:The only problem with that is what if I want my deathguard to be led by a non-terminator? Or my world eaters to be led by a bad ass terminator like the FW one. etc etc.

You can still run World Eaters without all Khorne Berserkers or Death Guard without all Plague Marines. I see it happen all the time.

And if you want to run your army true to the background, keep in mind that all Death Guard marines are plague marines & all World Eaters are berserkers for example. Just as all 1ksons are either sorcerers or rubric marines.
Limiting the cult troops to a specific SC is simply GW shoehorning players into specific lists.

mazik765 wrote:And making a Thousand Sons army with Ahriman sounds good to me. Looking forward to the codex!

Making a full Thousand Sons army with or without Ahriman sounds better to me, as it is now.

I just hope cult units to be worth that elite slot. My fluffy HQ, which doesn't fit existing SC rules (Tzeentch terminator chaos lord and Slaanesh daemon prince) will have to hire berzerkers as elite...

pretre wrote:

Arm.chair.general wrote:These rumors sound completely off, and not what I have been hearing otherwise. If they are true then my army will be made completely redundant because my whole army is plague marines.

Or you can take the character that gets you plagues as troops. Poof, not redundant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

winterman wrote:The only problem with that is what if I want my deathguard to be led by a non-terminator? Or my world eaters to be led by a bad ass terminator like the FW one. etc etc.

You can still run World Eaters without all Khorne Berserkers or Death Guard without all Plague Marines. I see it happen all the time.

Yeah but I dont take characters, only Lords, and what about those people that have multiple cult units as troops?

Experiment 626 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Arm.chair.general wrote:These rumors sound completely off, and not what I have been hearing otherwise. If they are true then my army will be made completely redundant because my whole army is plague marines.

Or you can take the character that gets you plagues as troops. Poof, not redundant.

And what if your 'Deathguard Captain' is actually in power armour being carried on his palanquin?

I don't think anyone would object to that being represented on a Terminator sized base, do you?

Or what if your 'captain' is actually a sorcerer?

Typhus is actually considered a Sorcerer.

Or what if your 'captain' is characterised by his pair of lightning claws w/built-in combi-plasma?! Poof, totally redundant model/s that now need replacing and/or won't see the table nearly as often because you're forced to sink 200+ pts into a specific termie armour + daemon weapon build.

Personally, I think you're kind of being obtuse here.

While yes, certainly not every single character will be able to fit into the archetypical role--the vast majority of "fluffy" characters will.

pretre wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

winterman wrote:The only problem with that is what if I want my deathguard to be led by a non-terminator? Or my world eaters to be led by a bad ass terminator like the FW one. etc etc.

You can still run World Eaters without all Khorne Berserkers or Death Guard without all Plague Marines. I see it happen all the time.

And if you want to run your army true to the background, keep in mind that all Death Guard marines are plague marines & all World Eaters are berserkers for example. Just as all 1ksons are either sorcerers or rubric marines.
Limiting the cult troops to a specific SC is simply GW shoehorning players into specific lists.

If we want to get into the nitty gritty details of the background...
All Death Guard are Plague Marines, but not all Plague Marines are Death Guard. The same goes for World Eaters and Berserkers. So you very well could have a Berserker/Plague Marine force without the Legionnaires ever being involved.

For the Thousand Sons, it's a force being led by any Sorcerer with a cabal which has formed up around him.

How about we dial down the rage a bit until we see the book?

I get your points; I just don't think it is unique to C:CSM and isn't as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be.

winterman wrote:

Yes, you have to take Logan to unlock Wolf Guard as troops.

See how that works?

No one owned wolf guard armies prior to this. See the difference?

I have no issue with SCs unlocking special FOC builds or a few neat tricks. But this is a bit heavy handed. I can still run Salamanders without Vulkan, its not as cool but I am not entirely screwed should I choose not to. That doesn't appear to be the case here and its going to really tick people off if it comes to pass. Belial was bad enough but workable (cause DA had such terrible HQ options anyways) but this just takes the cake.

You can still run Bezerkers without Kharn as they fill up an elite slot instead (and one as a troops choice with a generic non-special general)... they don't just disappear according to these rumors. Pretty much everyone I've seen over the past 3 editions of 40k playing that has had a chaos god themed army has also had the special character that goes along with it as part of their collection. The majority of existing chaos god themed players won't have to buy a special character if this is true. This issue people have with Special Characters unlocking units in different categories isn't as big of a deal as people make. Frankly, this past codex was the aberration as it had all the god themed units as troops whereas previously IIRC they were usually in other slots until moved by an HQ's choice of marks. I suspect people will be able to take various marks on normal chaos marines as well as being able to take the legion specific god-dedicated units.

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
To me - and many others - that should work the other way round:
Imagine you have a special lord you have written fluff for.
You're not going to want to simply use some "universal" profile (read: a special character), it's not the character you've created, but rather some named character with set rules, set fluff and included in several armies.

I can understand why GW use the Special-character-unlock method, but to me it's not entirely 'fair' and is pretty 'heavy-handed'. Why can't another or standard HQ choice do the same? Why can't I use my own character if I want to run a fluffy army?

I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like being forced to use a generic character.

Here is something which is never really considered.

Generic characters can take alternate loads of wargear. Specific characters cannot.

Doesn't this lack of customisation just make being forced to take special characters even worse then?

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
To me - and many others - that should work the other way round:
Imagine you have a special lord you have written fluff for.
You're not going to want to simply use some "universal" profile (read: a special character), it's not the character you've created, but rather some named character with set rules, set fluff and included in several armies.

I can understand why GW use the Special-character-unlock method, but to me it's not entirely 'fair' and is pretty 'heavy-handed'. Why can't another or standard HQ choice do the same? Why can't I use my own character if I want to run a fluffy army?

I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like being forced to use a generic character.

Here is something which is never really considered.

Generic characters can take alternate loads of wargear. Specific characters cannot.

Doesn't this lack of customisation just make being forced to take special characters even worse then?

Only if you think being able to readily recognize what you're facing(the biggest reason why people complain they will "never, ever let their opponent play Forge World armies!") is a problem.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Regarding the pretty ridiculous-sounding concept of the Chaos mecha-dragon, I need only remind other readers that when rumors came out for the GK Baby-Carrier, everyone thought that was completely loopy, too. I know I called shenanigans on it.

Sadly, I was wrong.

I don't think a mecha dragon is too different from established chaos vehicles...

I was just wondering if we can have all the rumors upto now reposted here. Theres been so many differant rumors on the forums concerning chaos. It would atleast give us an idea what everyones rumors are like and which ones are popping up more.

Also rbo dragon thing do you think hes talking about one the tzeentch daemon flyers because they could be confused as dragons looking at the old epic models

So if the named characters make the cult troops where will that leave my Plague Marine army with two daemon-princes?

aka_mythos wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Regarding the pretty ridiculous-sounding concept of the Chaos mecha-dragon, I need only remind other readers that when rumors came out for the GK Baby-Carrier, everyone thought that was completely loopy, too. I know I called shenanigans on it.

Sadly, I was wrong.

I don't think a mecha dragon is too different from established chaos vehicles...

I saw that earlier and thought it was kinda weird.

Arm.chair.general wrote:So if the named characters make the cult troops where will that leave my Plague Marine army with two daemon-princes?

You'll have 2 HQ choices, 3 Elite choices (probably) and will need to fill your troop choices.

Edit: IF these rumors are real.

They might be bs. Don't go selling your army or quit in rage. Just hang on a bit, man.

Kanluwen wrote:Only if you think being able to readily recognize what you're facing(the biggest reason why people complain they will "never, ever let their opponent play Forge World armies!") is a problem.

Or, only if you think being unable to readily recognize a customised Captain/Lord/HQ is likely.

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Only if you think being able to readily recognize what you're facing(the biggest reason why people complain they will "never, ever let their opponent play Forge World armies!") is a problem.

Or, only if you think being unable to readily recognize a customised Captain/Lord/HQ is likely.

Being unable to readily recognize a customized Captain/Lord/HQ isn't a big problem.
Being unable to readily recognize a customized Captain/Lord/HQ and their wargear is.

I'm betting the appropriate character will make the cults at least scoring and that in the new fluff cultists are as much a defining part of the particular god specific army as the cult marines.

Sooo no Dreads, a mechanical dragon and traitor guard rules in...

Yeah, not buying this. Sounds one part pure dumb, one part smoking asbestos joints and one part wishful thinking...

winterman wrote:No one owned wolf guard armies prior to this. See the difference?

People owned Inquisitorial Stormtrooper based armies before. Now they have to use Coteaz and Warrior Acolytes. See the resemblance?

kronk wrote:

Arm.chair.general wrote:So if the named characters make the cult troops where will that leave my Plague Marine army with two daemon-princes?

You'll have 2 HQ choices, 3 Elite choices (probably) and will need to fill your troop choices.

Edit: IF these rumors are real.

They might be bs. Don't go selling your army or quit in rage. Just hang on a bit, man.

I wont be rage quitting I can guarantee you. I just pray that these rumours are a load of gak.

His Master's Voice wrote:Sooo no Dreads, a mechanical dragon and traitor guard rules in...

Yeah, not buying this. Sounds one part pure dumb, one part smoking asbestos joints and one part wishful thinking...

Do people actually "read"?... no "dreads" just a nearly identical unit of a different name.

That, plus a flying daemon engine and a Traitor Guard entry that's kind of a much-simplified version of GK henchmen isn't really that hard to believe. Might still be bunk, of course.

So rather than give Legions more options, we can expect to see no options whatsoever, if these rumors prove to be true. I never thought I'd say it, but I'll keep the current codex and my Plague Marine troops and still be able to take a single daemon prince, rather than having to run Typhus. Where do marked units like terminators fit in to this equation? We have to squeeze our cult power armor and terminator armor units into our elites slots?

No daemons of any sort is really the biggest turn off for me. I dealt with generic daemons, and at least you can have some form of daemons represented in a force, and I personally found them more effective than a lot of people gave them credit for. The lack of any sort of daemonic presence in a CSM codex really does just make them spikey marines. Even GW can't want Daemons to be such a stand alone force they would sacrifice sales of daemons kits to CSMs players.

I said all along I didn't expect the new codex to be a "legion codex" and would simply be the new CSM codex, but I never imagined they would suck out the little remaining character left to make it near impossible to represent a true Legion force.

I wish I could say I don't believe the rumors, but over the last 5-6 years GW seems to have a problem representing any Chaos faction in their codexes anywhere close to how they are portrayed in the fluff. I hope these are just wildly out of context if there is any truth to them.

aka_mythos wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Sooo no Dreads, a mechanical dragon and traitor guard rules in...

Yeah, not buying this. Sounds one part pure dumb, one part smoking asbestos joints and one part wishful thinking...

Do people actually "read"?... no "dreads" just a nearly identical unit of a different name.

Either way its still dumb, Chaos have always had Dreadnoughts.

Eldar used to have them too. Now they don't.

Is anyone really surprised that Chaos will use SC's to unlock different troop options? I mean, that trend started with Dark Angels and has been carried through in almost every single codex since!

It may, in the end, not be SC's that do it but just a "Nurgle Lord" or whatever in the same way that Orks work.

But cultists in the list make me happy!

Arm.chair.general wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Sooo no Dreads, a mechanical dragon and traitor guard rules in...

Yeah, not buying this. Sounds one part pure dumb, one part smoking asbestos joints and one part wishful thinking...

Do people actually "read"?... no "dreads" just a nearly identical unit of a different name.

Either way its still dumb, Chaos have always had Dreadnoughts.

No it isn't dumb... Especially if its a much more inclusive unit to allow the use upgrades to make some the dreadnought-like but not strictly speaking "dreadnought" units. of GW wants to have for example the blood-slaughterer in the same entry as the old "dreadnought" it isn't appropriate to call that new unit entry a "dreadnought".

By that same vein, a Dreadnought wouldn't fall under "Daemon Engine" category.

So thus its dependent on GW's new units name.

Well, alternatively I'd say there's the possibility of the Defiler being the one taken and replaced with a new name.

aka_mythos wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Regarding the pretty ridiculous-sounding concept of the Chaos mecha-dragon, I need only remind other readers that when rumors came out for the GK Baby-Carrier, everyone thought that was completely loopy, too. I know I called shenanigans on it.

Sadly, I was wrong.

I don't think a mecha dragon is too different from established chaos vehicles...

Excellent point!

Mm. Doom wings. I used to use a bunch of those as Discs of Tzeentch.

Kanluwen wrote:By that same vein, a Dreadnought wouldn't fall under "Daemon Engine" category.

Under the current fluff.

heres my rumors

New books later this year
New models later this year
New price increase later this year
new terrain later this year

gorgon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:By that same vein, a Dreadnought wouldn't fall under "Daemon Engine" category.

Under the current fluff.

Under any fluff we've had on Dreadnoughts.

Dreadnoughts house the remains of an Astartes in a kind of semi-aware stasis. There are some where the Astartes within or the Dreadnought body has been corrupted with Daemonic gifts, but that does not make them a Daemon Engine.

A Daemon Engine is a construct created to house a Daemon bound within.

aka_mythos wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Sooo no Dreads, a mechanical dragon and traitor guard rules in...

Yeah, not buying this. Sounds one part pure dumb, one part smoking asbestos joints and one part wishful thinking...

Do people actually "read"?... no "dreads" just a nearly identical unit of a different name.

Next time you try to school people on reading do some of your own first

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

Where does it say "nearly identical unit with a different name"? Because Lychguard are not Pariahs with a different name, seeing as they have different rules, wargear options and background.

Giving CSM a new unit I could buy. Removing a unit that's not only iconic but also well liked despite having lousy rules is pure dumb.

kronk wrote:

Arm.chair.general wrote:So if the named characters make the cult troops where will that leave my Plague Marine army with two daemon-princes?

You'll have 2 HQ choices, 3 Elite choices (probably) and will need to fill your troop choices.

Edit: IF these rumors are real.

They might be bs. Don't go selling your army or quit in rage. Just hang on a bit, man.

But for a fluffy Death Guard army that is really limiting if you don't take Typhus (assuming rumours were true).

HQ would be either a daemon prince (could be counting as Mortarion) or standard lord/sorcerer with your own fluff.

Now in Elites we'd have to pick between Plague Marines (who should be the bulk troops as all Death Guard are Plague Marines) and Terminators (who fluff-wise are the obvious choice as Death Guard had a large number of Terminators for boarding actions and high risk operations).

Troops would be Cultists (counting as plague zombies) and normal chaos marines (who would die on a Death Guard ship due to all the diseases).

So trying to build a Death Guard army without Typhus makes you choose between two units who should both be in the army.

All this is assuming that the rumour is accurate, of course.

Hehe just realised he must just mean the lesser and greater demons are gone but marked/named demons are back as there are supposed to be models for the word bearer guys aren't there? Unless....

Word bearers don't summon demons, but have a spell that conjures demonic fury, hits with 2D6 blablabla :facepalm

warboss wrote: Pretty much everyone I've seen over the past 3 editions of 40k playing that has had a chaos god themed army has also had the special character that goes along with it as part of their collection. The majority of existing chaos god themed players won't have to buy a special character if this is true.

I don't, I haven't used a special character since 2nd ed and I don't intend to start using one just to make my army 'legal' nor do I have any desire to be forced to pay 225 points for a single HQ choice who is armed completely differently to my current Daemon Prince and Sorceror.

There is no genuine need to force people to use special characters , there are much better ways of fostering list customisation and if people want to use special characters they will. Its bad games design pure and simple.

Will I 'rage' quit? Not really as I did that years ago, I did however make a Death Guard army in anticipation of 6th mostly because the early rumours sounded interesting.

I hope I don't regret my decision.

Palindrome wrote:Will I 'rage' quit? Not really as I did that years ago,

Not sure if serious... If you rage quit, why are you still here?

Note the quotation marks. It didn't quit in a rage but the internet loves its melodrama.

I came back because I like the game world (even if it has been severely degraded over recent years) and the early 6th ed and Chaos rumours sounded like the game had finally turned a corner. I'm not so sure now though.

Kanluwen wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:By that same vein, a Dreadnought wouldn't fall under "Daemon Engine" category.

Under the current fluff.

Under any fluff we've had on Dreadnoughts.

Dreadnoughts house the remains of an Astartes in a kind of semi-aware stasis. There are some where the Astartes within or the Dreadnought body has been corrupted with Daemonic gifts, but that does not make them a Daemon Engine.

A Daemon Engine is a construct created to house a Daemon bound within.

GW can change all that with a few keyboard strokes. There are countless examples of fluff changes. If they're so inclined to lump dreads under daemon engines, the old fluff isn't going to hold them back.

Kanluwen wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:By that same vein, a Dreadnought wouldn't fall under "Daemon Engine" category.

Under the current fluff.

Under any fluff we've had on Dreadnoughts.

Dreadnoughts house the remains of an Astartes in a kind of semi-aware stasis. There are some where the Astartes within or the Dreadnought body has been corrupted with Daemonic gifts, but that does not make them a Daemon Engine.

A Daemon Engine is a construct created to house a Daemon bound within.

Hypothetically ...an astartes can become possessed.... so how would a dreadnought with a possessed marine be all that distinguishable from a daemon engine?

"Because of the entombed Chaos Space Marine's weakened nature, Dreadnoughts exposed to the raw power of the warp are especially prone to daemonic possession." Done.

Losing Chaos Dreads would be another bad joke... they're in dire need of a plastic kit which I imagine would sell very well.

Can see a name change but not complete removal...

aka_mythos wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:By that same vein, a Dreadnought wouldn't fall under "Daemon Engine" category.

Under the current fluff.

Under any fluff we've had on Dreadnoughts.

Dreadnoughts house the remains of an Astartes in a kind of semi-aware stasis. There are some where the Astartes within or the Dreadnought body has been corrupted with Daemonic gifts, but that does not make them a Daemon Engine.

A Daemon Engine is a construct created to house a Daemon bound within.

Hypothetically ...an astartes can become possessed.... so how would a dreadnought with a possessed marine be all that distinguishable from a daemon engine?

In game terms or fluff terms?

In fluff terms: there's a huge difference. One is a vessel designed explicitly for a Daemon to use as a host, allowing it to operate and affect the outside world. Without that vessel--no Daemon.
The other is mutations and possession, anchored to a living being and the construct he's been forced into.

At worse, the Dreadnoughts rules will be only in ForgeWorld books.

His Master's Voice wrote:

Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)

Where does it say "nearly identical unit with a different name"? Because Lychguard are not Pariahs with a different name, seeing as they have different rules, wargear options and background.

Giving CSM a new unit I could buy. Removing a unit that's not only iconic but also well liked despite having lousy rules is pure dumb.

They are conceptually nearly identical... hence why I use the example of a blood slaughterer as an example of a dreadnought sized walker incorporable in a new broader unit. This all the same way Space Marine veterans became Sternguard and Vanguard... so now we get something not "dread" in name but in spirit.

This...
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2003372a_99120110012_Lychguard01_873x627.jpg" border="0" />
Look nearly the same as these...

"Daemon Engines are unholy combinations of Daemon and machine. Some were crafted by the minions of the Ruinous Powers in order to house the essence of a mighty Daemon. Others were once part of the Emperor's armies, now corrupted and possessed by the power of Chaos."

Two weeks after release, you'll have 12 year olds spouting this like it's always been true.

warboss wrote:

You can still run Bezerkers without Kharn as they fill up an elite slot instead (and one as a troops choice with a generic non-special general)... they don't just disappear according to these rumors. Pretty much everyone I've seen over the past 3 editions of 40k playing that has had a chaos god themed army has also had the special character that goes along with it as part of their collection. The majority of existing chaos god themed players won't have to buy a special character if this is true. This issue people have with Special Characters unlocking units in different categories isn't as big of a deal as people make. Frankly, this past codex was the aberration as it had all the god themed units as troops whereas previously IIRC they were usually in other slots until moved by an HQ's choice of marks. I suspect people will be able to take various marks on normal chaos marines as well as being able to take the legion specific god-dedicated units.

I had at one point nearly 10,000 points of Death Guard and I did not own Typhus, nor did I ever run a "counts as" Typhus. The fact is, I did not want that character in my army, and I didn't want a Terminator armor model running with my power armor dudes. I should be allowed to run a Death Guard army led by a sorcerer or daemon prince or Chaos lord.

The last codex had cult marines as troops, and the one prior allowed cult marines as troops as long as the HQ had the same mark. Simple enough, just give us that option again. SCs shouldn't be the only way to run a legion force, especially when GW refuse to expand on the number of SCs for CSMs. Most other armies have roughly twice the number of SCs, so even when they affect FOCs, you still have more variety.

I'm actually think the dread drop maybe more than beneficial tbh. In the end I think the cover all dred unit (whatever it will be called) will most likely be more customizable and less static and simple. That can only be good from a list writers perspective and also for those making themed lists, which in chaos players there are loads.

So no need to jump the gun sounds seriously like there might be benefits to this catch all term and possible conversion ops.

GW now has an established history of dropping failed units and replacing them with units that are the same concept but with new rules as a simple way of fixing the defficiencies of a unit... this is no different.

I read the BoK rumors on here, and I can honestly say that I don't see what the big deal is-if "dreads" are removed, but a new model is coming in that is only slightly different, but can still use the model, this just differentiates from the SM codex-and that's a good thing, right? So many people on here whine that they want something that isn't just 'spikey marines,' and when they get it, the whining continues. Really? I've seen more grown up 5th graders. And 'lesser and greater daemons' are out-does that mean daemons are gone? No, it might just mean those titles are out, and we may get Daemonettes, Bloodletters, etc back in-we don't know yet, but everyone whines anyway.

Honestly, the only people who have a right to be upset (over rumors, not even fact, no-less) are those who don't want to run special characters to get cult troops. I happen to like the SCs, and I'd be okay with running them to get full access to cult marines, but I can fully appreciate that others may not be as accepting. But under these settings, I really hope all 40k tournaments (non-sanctioned only now, of course) allow special characters, as GW is really making it hard to make a fluffy list without adding SCs in. I look forward to the rest of the rumors, but these, so far, sit fine with me. And I look forward to the dragon too-as long as it doesn't look like the Power Ranger one seen a few pages back-I'd probably lead the mob on Nottingham if they make it look like that.

aka_mythos wrote:GW now has an established history of dropping failed units and replacing them with units that are the same concept but with new rules as a simple way of fixing the defficiencies of a unit... this is no different.

Did they ever drop a unit that has been in the game for, well, forever?

And I don't know how one could describe Chaos Dreads as a failed unit. Lousy rules, sure. They're still very popular despite that.

aka_mythos wrote:
They are conceptually nearly identical...

They're both bulky, CC orientated Elite choices. The still have different rules and background. I guess this is one of those "eye of the beholder" cases.

Anyway, as long as it's just a renaming, and the background does not change to suddenly remove all Chaos dreads from existence, I'm fine with that.

I can see the problem with forcing special characters too. If your going for that sort of a list you want it to be personalized and your own work and exactly as you want it.
It would be wrong tbh if GW made you take a special character to allow you to do that, and would probably put a lot off I think a nurgle lord or khorn lord or similar should be there to allow the same thing. That way if you want the SC then you can but there is no requirement.

Cadaver wrote:

warboss wrote:

You can still run Bezerkers without Kharn as they fill up an elite slot instead (and one as a troops choice with a generic non-special general)... they don't just disappear according to these rumors. Pretty much everyone I've seen over the past 3 editions of 40k playing that has had a chaos god themed army has also had the special character that goes along with it as part of their collection. The majority of existing chaos god themed players won't have to buy a special character if this is true. This issue people have with Special Characters unlocking units in different categories isn't as big of a deal as people make. Frankly, this past codex was the aberration as it had all the god themed units as troops whereas previously IIRC they were usually in other slots until moved by an HQ's choice of marks. I suspect people will be able to take various marks on normal chaos marines as well as being able to take the legion specific god-dedicated units.

I had at one point nearly 10,000 points of Death Guard and I did not own Typhus, nor did I ever run a "counts as" Typhus. The fact is, I did not want that character in my army, and I didn't want a Terminator armor model running with my power armor dudes. I should be allowed to run a Death Guard army led by a sorcerer or daemon prince or Chaos lord.

LOL... if you're going to claim something to refute another poster in an effort to get your point across, you really should make sure that people can't fact check your statements with the press of a few buttons. Thanks to Lego for getting dakka search to work! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you didn't mean to blatantly lie but instead just forgot about the below since you had a 10k army.

Cadaver wrote:It's been awhile. I almost let the whole month of June slip by without an update. I just couldn't let that happen. So I've been hard at work all week painting a few characters. The daemon prince got a new head not too long ago and I built a Sorcerer in Terminator armor based of the Typhus model. The head is from the WFB Dark Emissary with the horns cut off.

The Sorcerer:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/209451.page#320181

Cadaver wrote:For those of you who follow my project log you know I've been reworking my Death Guard army with loads of Forgeworld goodies and theming it as an early post heresy force, about 1,000 years after the Horus Heresy.

I have a 2,000 point list that takes some liberties with this theme in regards to units, such as using Obliterators. In addition to that list I wanted to come up with a more pure Death Guard list that holds to the classic tactics and units used by the Death Guard.


HQ

Typhus - 225

Elites

Terminators(4) - 175

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225196.page#486691

Despite your claims to the contrary, you both owned the model AND planned at one point to use him in your army, thus putting you in the same category of people with cult specific armies including characters that I've met in person. Are there some people with cult armies without the special characters in their collections? Sure, but in my experience they make up a minority of the players. "Requiring" a special character (and I put that in quotes as the proposed rumors don't require them but instead just increase access to the already available cult troops) any kind of financial imposition on the majority of chaos cult players. For those that don't own them, adding a single figure (even with the crappy casted finecast price increase included) is not a large monetary imposition if they already own the army. Does it take up points? Sure, but that wasn't my point.

Chaos players have had over 5 years to realize that special characters now unlock additional slots for units... plenty of time to get over it and not expect a magical change contrary to the trend of the past 6 codices.

If anything, the nixing of dreadnoughts without a reasonable stand-in fascimile would indeed be an imposition on chaos players as it would invalidate an existing model.

have to say, even though I'm in the opposite camp, that was a pretty epic takedown

Charax wrote:have to say, even though I'm in the opposite camp, that was a pretty epic takedown

Wow. That was pretty epic

warboss wrote:

LOL... if you're going to claim something to refute another poster in an effort to get your point across, you really should make sure that people can't fact check your statements with the press of a few buttons. Thanks to Lego for getting dakka search to work! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you didn't mean to blatantly lie but instead just forgot about the below since you had a 10k army.

Congratulations, of the numerous models I've purchased, I managed to forget I had the Typhus model, which was converted to a sorcerer and once wrote a list that included Typhus and posted it online.

I can tell you I never once actually fielded Typhus using his rules, and if you look around I'm sure you can pull up plenty of lists I wrote for Orks and Daemons, despite having never played them either.

I'm not sure how any of that disregards the fact that Legion players shouldn't be forced to use Special Characters. I could care less about the cost of having to purchase a specific character model. Chaos is already so restricted in regards to Legions the last thing we need is more restriction. Hopefully in future discussion you can simply address the larger point I was making instead of digging through 4 year old posts to try and invalidate my point by proving that I once owned a model I simply forgot about owning.


Also, have you considered a career as a political pundit?

aka_mythos wrote:

Arm.chair.general wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Sooo no Dreads, a mechanical dragon and traitor guard rules in...

Yeah, not buying this. Sounds one part pure dumb, one part smoking asbestos joints and one part wishful thinking...

Do people actually "read"?... no "dreads" just a nearly identical unit of a different name.

Either way its still dumb, Chaos have always had Dreadnoughts.

No it isn't dumb... Especially if its a much more inclusive unit to allow the use upgrades to make some the dreadnought-like but not strictly speaking "dreadnought" units. of GW wants to have for example the blood-slaughterer in the same entry as the old "dreadnought" it isn't appropriate to call that new unit entry a "dreadnought".

Dreadnoughts are one of the iconic units of chaos space marines as well as space marines, there are a tonne of Dreadnoughts on forgeworld and we already have the decimator and defiler, so getting rid of chaos Dreadnoughts is stupid.

Cadaver wrote:
I'm not sure how any of that disregards the fact that Legion players should be forced to use Special Characters. I could care less about the cost of having to purchase a specific character model. Chaos is already so restricted in regards to Legions the last thing we need is more restriction. Hopefully in future discussion you can simply address the larger point I was making instead of digging through 4 year old posts to try and invalidate my point by proving that I once owned a model I simply forgot about owning.

Why not? Deathwing players have to take Belial, and the list goes on. Its the nature of the game nowadays that special characters end up being required in lists. Chaos players (myself included) aren't going to be special in that regard.

You know that they probably have dreadnoughts but they will be called:
Plague-noughts
Lust-noughts
Sorcery-noughts
Blood-noughts

I struggle just a little with the difficulty in applying imagination to named HQ units in an imaginary game built around using our imaginations.

I think it will be cool if the book lets you use Marks to determine Legion troops.

If it doesn't, and requires named character selection, join the Legions of 40k players who already have to basically do the same thing, apply your imagination, and get creative with conversions.

What I'm saying is - I FULLY understand and even empathize with the frustration, just ... don't freak out; it'll be a-ok. The fluff of 40k is completely made-up, as are the names of the characters, as are all the rules. Nothing prevents you making up character names and model designs in return to create a more unique feel and get away from your HQ choice looking like other peoples' HQ choice.


Thing is, if I want to do Flight of the Eisenstein Death Guard using the new rules, I will model Nathaniel Garro and use the rules for Typhus if I have to, and what's super cool is everyone I've ever played with, and every tournament I've ever attended (both a very high number of players/tournaments), will be totally cool with me doing this ... as long as I make Garro unique looking enough that people aren't going to mix the model up in play. The use of him "as" rules-Typhus is as kosher as it gets, b/c nothing in the game is real in the first place, and cool modeling/fluff trumps strict rules application basically ... always. Would I like for my Garro not to have rules that reflect Terminator Armor and Manreaper and Nurgle's Rot by building him out of a base Chaos Lord? Sure would! Could I just as readily take a Lord also, model HIM as Garro, and have the Typhus inclusion be my "buddy of Garro, modeled in bulky Mk3 armor and counts-as Typhus" instead? Sure can!

I totally get the irritation, just not the DEGREE of it ... chillax, use thy imagination (that's what we're all doing when we play anyway, right?), and have fun. Chaos and pre-heresy lovers are about to get tons of new models and brand spanking new rules to go along with a brand spanking new edition. Hooray!

Cruentus wrote:
Why not? Deathwing players have to take Belial, and the list goes on. Its the nature of the game nowadays that special characters end up being required in lists. Chaos players (myself included) aren't going to be special in that regard.

Imagine having all space marine chapters in a single codex to represent all the different chapters with a single special character for each chapter. Then imagine that character is the only way to allow you to build that force how they are described in 20+ years of background. Its kind of like that. Even space marines can take a captain on a bike to unlock bikes as troops. It's not too much to ask for marks to unlock cult troops. I'm not arguing the format of characters used to move FOCs for units isn't a valid method, it just doesn't have to be so restrictive it limits Legions to a single viable build.

I might be able to see where GW might be going if said rumors are true.

1: Chaos pretty much getting a Dreadknight equivalent

My thought and this is based on GK's alone is that GW wants to have a more combat looking robot and a more shooty looking robot. I mean the dreadnought is pure win on shooty so much that no one that I know of really plays a CC oriented GK dreadnaught and the Dreadknight is almost always geared for CC

2. They are prepping to make Chaos Daemons a more army of themselves. Removing the Daemons from Chaos armies make it more of a "pure" faction to play. Where as Chaos legions will be just tainted humans with chaos powers but still rely heavily on their "human" technology.

3. Unlocking choices as troops or making you take a SC for a unit is not unheard of now and is most likely how everything is going to go from now on. It does Force you to take a 'themed' army but it does do what GW does best and guide (albeit with a forceful hand) to sell models. It works well with GK. So there is not to say that it doesn't mean that there isn't hope that the SC isn't so point costly. I hate to again point to GK but inquisitors don't cost very much and are required for henchmen. Could be the same for Chaos.

Anyways that's my 2 cents

MVBrandt wrote:What I'm saying is - I FULLY understand and even empathize with the frustration, just ... don't freak out; it'll be a-ok. The fluff of 40k is completely made-up, as are the names of the characters, as are all the rules. Nothing prevents you making up character names and model designs in return to create a more unique feel and get away from your HQ choice looking like other peoples' HQ choice.

This x 1000.

Cadaver wrote:

Cruentus wrote:
Why not? Deathwing players have to take Belial, and the list goes on. Its the nature of the game nowadays that special characters end up being required in lists. Chaos players (myself included) aren't going to be special in that regard.

Imagine having all space marine chapters in a single codex to represent all the different chapters with a single special character for each chapter. Then imagine that character is the only way to allow you to build that force how they are described in 20+ years of background. Its kind of like that. Even space marines can take a captain on a bike to unlock bikes as troops. It's not too much to ask for marks to unlock cult troops. I'm not arguing the format of characters used to move FOCs for units isn't a valid method, it just doesn't have to be so restrictive it limits Legions to a single viable build.

In the fluff none of the four major cult troops still form armies of their own though. It's an extreme rarity, they're primarily supplemental to marines that are marked or chosen in some way. The only legion that still has the numbers and demeanor to form armies purely of it's own are the death guard, the rest have been fractured heavily in some way. It was never particularly fluffy to have an entire army formed out of noise marines or berserkers. You'll still be able to have an army with those troops in it as a generic or marked commander, nothing is stopping you from taking 60 berserkers out of the elites choice. They just won't be troops (which theoretically won't be as hugely important in sixth anyway).

I don't wanna get Typhus for my Death Guard army because Typhus isn't even part of the Death Guard anymore. He's a goddamn outcast.

I'll just have a Daemon Prince count as Typhus.

MVBrandt wrote:I struggle just a little with the difficulty in applying imagination to named HQ units in an imaginary game built around using our imaginations.

I think it will be cool if the book lets you use Marks to determine Legion troops.

If it doesn't, and requires named character selection, join the Legions of 40k players who already have to basically do the same thing, apply your imagination, and get creative with conversions.

What I'm saying is - I FULLY understand and even empathize with the frustration, just ... don't freak out; it'll be a-ok. The fluff of 40k is completely made-up, as are the names of the characters, as are all the rules. Nothing prevents you making up character names and model designs in return to create a more unique feel and get away from your HQ choice looking like other peoples' HQ choice.

I have no problem getting creative with conversions. I have no problem in theory with special characters changing FOC, I have no problem overlooking aspects of the fluff to shape my army the way I want it. The models can look as different as possible, but that still doesn't change the fact that as a Death Guard player I have essentially 1 army list available to play my legion.

Although you are right about not freaking out about it. Rumormongers on other forums are already calling BoK rumors fake or high mis-representative at the least, and stunt to draw website views. It's not like I'm going to rage quit over this or anything, but I do think it's a cop out and a lazy way for GW to represent legions.

Cruentus wrote:

Why not? Deathwing players have to take Belial, and the list goes on. Its the nature of the game nowadays that special characters end up being required in lists. Chaos players (myself included) aren't going to be special in that regard.

Yes and it is poor games design from a company that is supposed to be all about creativity. GW's games can only improve if they remove the obligation to field special characters.

Cadaver wrote:Although you are right about not freaking out about it. Rumormongers on other forums are already calling BoK rumors fake or high mis-representative at the least, and stunt to draw website views. It's not like I'm going to rage quit over this or anything, but I do think it's a cop out and a lazy way for GW to represent legions.

I return to my thought that we need to have a sticky post with the accuracy percentages of all known rumormongers in N&R. Would help prevent some of these shenanigans.

Palindrome wrote:

Cruentus wrote:

Why not? Deathwing players have to take Belial, and the list goes on. Its the nature of the game nowadays that special characters end up being required in lists. Chaos players (myself included) aren't going to be special in that regard.

Yes and it is poor games design from a company that is supposed to be all about creativity. GW's games can only improve if they remove the obligation to field special characters.

We're years into counts-as land anyway. I'm doing it, you're doing it, everyones doing it. It's an unfortunate design choice but it was pretty inevitable given the last few codexes.

LoneLictor wrote:I don't wanna get Typhus for my Death Guard army because Typhus isn't even part of the Death Guard anymore. He's a goddamn outcast.

I'll just have a Daemon Prince count as Typhus.

Incorrect.

Typhus is still with the Death Guard. He is most certainly not an outcast.

Ahriman, Kharn, and Fabius Bile most certainly are outcasts.

Cadaver wrote:
I'm not sure how any of that disregards the fact that Legion players shouldn't be forced to use Special Characters. I could care less about the cost of having to purchase a specific character model. Chaos is already so restricted in regards to Legions the last thing we need is more restriction. Hopefully in future discussion you can simply address the larger point I was making instead of digging through 4 year old posts to try and invalidate my point by proving that I once owned a model I simply forgot about owning.


Also, have you considered a career as a political pundit?

Nope, no politics for me. As for digging up 4 year old posts, you probably shouldn't claim stuff that isn't true in the first place instead of getting huffy about someone proving you wrong. It took me less time to disprove your claims than it has to type out the previous two sentances. Click on your name, click on search posts, type typhus, viola!

As for addressing the larger point, I did that too initially. You're wrong in claiming that you're "forced" to use special characters. According to the (probably only partly correct if that) rumors, you can take cult troops as elite choices as well as a single troops choice per generic HQ (ala orks). If getting to take 30-100 cult troops (assuming squad sizes of up to 20) without being "forced" to use a special character isn't enough of a choice, I don't frankly know what is. SC unlocking different force org slots is the de facto standard for the past half decade... you may not like it (and you have every right to not as it is simply a preference/opinion) but there is no chance in hell that you should be suprised by it. The fluff even supports the idea indirectly. After 10,000 years, the only thing keeping those original legions together in most cases is a strong personality (like a special character). (yes, yes, blah, time in the warp flows differently, only a few centuries, blah... point remains the same)

pretre wrote:

Charax wrote:have to say, even though I'm in the opposite camp, that was a pretty epic takedown

Wow. That was pretty epic.

LOL, thanks. Every once in a while I get cranky enough by a statement that I suspect is false that I try to disprove it. My last one was a guy who claimed to leak rumors about the valkyrie or somesuch but only had 50 some posts to his username... not hard to disprove that one either. He then claimed to have previously posted it under a different concurrent account (which broke dakka's rules as I pointed out). Some people just keep digging...

pretre wrote:You know that they probably have dreadnoughts but they will be called:
Plague-noughts
Lust-noughts
Sorcery-noughts
Blood-noughts

Actually, something related to this worries me the most. What will the 500% overused term be for units/equipment/rules in the chaos codex? Obviously wolf lords riding thunderwolves while wearing wolf talismans was a previous one (along with "blood" for the sons of sanguinius). Spikey? Chaos? Dark? Warp?

Kanluwen wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I don't wanna get Typhus for my Death Guard army because Typhus isn't even part of the Death Guard anymore. He's a goddamn outcast.

I'll just have a Daemon Prince count as Typhus.

Incorrect.

Typhus is still with the Death Guard. He is most certainly not an outcast.

We may be splitting hairs here, but if you consider Mortarion to be the leader of the Death Guard still, I don't think Typhus would then still be considered True Death Guard!

ShumaGorath wrote:

Palindrome wrote:

Cruentus wrote:

Why not? Deathwing players have to take Belial, and the list goes on. Its the nature of the game nowadays that special characters end up being required in lists. Chaos players (myself included) aren't going to be special in that regard.

Yes and it is poor games design from a company that is supposed to be all about creativity. GW's games can only improve if they remove the obligation to field special characters.

We're years into counts-as land anyway. I'm doing it, you're doing it, everyones doing it. It's an unfortunate design choice but it was pretty inevitable given the last few codexes.

I'm not doing it as it happens and simply because there is a precedent for something doesn't mean that it can't be changed.

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I don't wanna get Typhus for my Death Guard army because Typhus isn't even part of the Death Guard anymore. He's a goddamn outcast.

I'll just have a Daemon Prince count as Typhus.

Incorrect.

Typhus is still with the Death Guard. He is most certainly not an outcast.

We may be splitting hairs here, but if you consider Mortarion to be the leader of the Death Guard still, I don't think Typhus would then still be considered True Death Guard!

Then I'd say that none of the Death Guard are "True Death Guard", as Mortarion seemingly goes to war accompanied by Daemons.

That said:
Mortarion doesn't seem to leave his little demense too often.
Typhus is usually outside of the Eye of Terror and is always accompanied by a host of Death Guard aboard the Terminus Est.

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I don't wanna get Typhus for my Death Guard army because Typhus isn't even part of the Death Guard anymore. He's a goddamn outcast.

I'll just have a Daemon Prince count as Typhus.

Incorrect.

Typhus is still with the Death Guard. He is most certainly not an outcast.

We may be splitting hairs here, but if you consider Mortarion to be the leader of the Death Guard still, I don't think Typhus would then still be considered True Death Guard!

I don't think it was ever said that Typhus was in charge of the whole thing. He's in charge of a Plague Fleet (including the Terminus Est, the Death Guard flagship) and leads a detachment of Death Guard marines. I imagine he has the blessing of Mortarion to spread Nurgle's pestilence.

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I don't wanna get Typhus for my Death Guard army because Typhus isn't even part of the Death Guard anymore. He's a goddamn outcast.

I'll just have a Daemon Prince count as Typhus.

Incorrect.

Typhus is still with the Death Guard. He is most certainly not an outcast.

We may be splitting hairs here, but if you consider Mortarion to be the leader of the Death Guard still, I don't think Typhus would then still be considered True Death Guard!

Then I'd say that none of the Death Guard are "True Death Guard", as Mortarion seemingly goes to war accompanied by Daemons.

That said:
Mortarion doesn't seem to leave his little demense too often.
Typhus is usually outside of the Eye of Terror and is always accompanied by a host of Death Guard aboard the Terminus Est.

By that logic, Ahriman is still part of the Thousand Sons because he brought some with him and left the eye of Terror.

Secondly, Mortarion still leads the Death Guard. He's alive, he owns the homeworld of the Death Guard, and he launches attacks from it.

Why not? Deathwing players have to take Belial, and the list goes on. Its the nature of the game nowadays that special characters end up being required in lists. Chaos players (myself included) aren't going to be special in that regard.

Belial is a very customizable SC however. He can take everything a standard DA terminator marshal can take.

LoneLictor wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote: We may be splitting hairs here, but if you consider Mortarion to be the leader of the Death Guard still, I don't think Typhus would then still be considered True Death Guard!

Then I'd say that none of the Death Guard are "True Death Guard", as Mortarion seemingly goes to war accompanied by Daemons.

That said:
Mortarion doesn't seem to leave his little demense too often.
Typhus is usually outside of the Eye of Terror and is always accompanied by a host of Death Guard aboard the Terminus Est.

By that logic, Ahriman is still part of the Thousand Sons because he brought some with him and left the eye of Terror.

That logic is not the same as what was being proposed. You'll notice that my reply was to an idea that because Mortarion leads the Death Guard, Typhus is somehow an outcast.
We have nothing(at least that I can think of readily) to suggest that Typhus is at odds with Mortarion like Magnus and Ahriman. In fact, we have the opposite with Typhus retaining his Death Guard ties and acting as the "Herald of Nurgle" following the path that Mortarion seemingly approves of.

Secondly, Mortarion still leads the Death Guard. He's alive, he owns the homeworld of the Death Guard, and he launches attacks from it.

I'm aware he's alive. I'm also aware that he is the de facto leader still.

My statement, however, was that he is not commonly found leading the Astartes. He commonly leads Daemonic forces.

Kanluwen wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote: We may be splitting hairs here, but if you consider Mortarion to be the leader of the Death Guard still, I don't think Typhus would then still be considered True Death Guard!

Then I'd say that none of the Death Guard are "True Death Guard", as Mortarion seemingly goes to war accompanied by Daemons.

That said:
Mortarion doesn't seem to leave his little demense too often.
Typhus is usually outside of the Eye of Terror and is always accompanied by a host of Death Guard aboard the Terminus Est.

By that logic, Ahriman is still part of the Thousand Sons because he brought some with him and left the eye of Terror.

That logic is not the same as what was being proposed. You'll notice that my reply was to an idea that because Mortarion leads the Death Guard, Typhus is somehow an outcast.
We have nothing(at least that I can think of readily) to suggest that Typhus is at odds with Mortarion like Magnus and Ahriman. In fact, we have the opposite with Typhus retaining his Death Guard ties and acting as the "Herald of Nurgle" following the path that Mortarion seemingly approves of.

Nope. Here's a quote from the 2nd 3rd Edition Chaos Codex. It hasn't been contradicted by anything, so its still canon.

"In the Eye of Terror Mortarion shaped his Daemon World to resemble Barbarus. Typhus was sickened by the sentimentality. His loyalty was to Nurgle and Nurgle waxed strong when mortals feared death. Taking his ship and his followers, Typhus returned again and again to the mortal realm and the legend of the traveller, the Herald of Nurgle was born. The rewards granted him by Nurgle are testament to a score of blighted worlds and countless damned souls."

That suggests pretty clearly that Typhus is at odds with Mortarion