Greetings folks! today I have a little something special, especially if you went to Salute. I have managed to convince Dave from Hawk Wagames to take the time from his manic schedule to answer some questions for me about his new company and upcoming wargame Dropship Commander! His salute stand caused a heck of a stir being the most consistantly busy stand! Even Forgeworld died down eventually, once they’d sold out anyway. So without any further prattling…
1. You caused quite a stir at Salute! For those that could not make it please tell all the folks a bit about yourself and your company.
Dave: Hawk Wargames is a brand new company, with the simple aim of producing the finest quality miniatures and games. I’ve pretty much dedicated the last two and a half years of my life to the pursuit of this goal (I’ve seen rather too many 2am’s for anyone’s taste so far!) My ethos is to always work a little beyond the limits of my ability, and to never cut corners. As such I’ve always tried to go the extra mile and to choose the best processes at every stage.
My first taste of miniatures design was as the main sculptor/ designer at Spartan Games in its early years. I designed all the original ships, and most of the new releases up until the Shroud Mages and the Elves (my last two fleets). My time at university also gave me hands on experience at the forefront of rapid manufacturing technology, knowledge I built upon with this project.
Dropzone Commander started with a desire to develop something I could entirely call my own. At the time I decided to take the plunge, I’d just left university and had a lot of options. Figuring that this was likely to be the only chance I’d get to do something like this, I grabbed the opportunity!
2. So far as anyone can tell, you came out of nowhere! The Dropzone Commander stand being one of the consistantly difficult to reach. Were you surprised by the reaction?
Dave: It was a truly intense day at Salute, and one I’ll never forget! After years of working in virtual isolation it was thrilling (if a little overwhelming!) to finally see peoples’ reactions to what I’d created. I’m not sure what I’d expected to be honest, but the level of interest and passion totally blew me away! I went through the whole day on pure adrenaline I think. My team worked their hearts out too, without them I’d have been completely swamped!
3. Tell us about the concept behind Dropzone Commander, the way the game is likely to play, rules, dice used etc.
Dave: Dropzone Commander is an alternate activation based 10mm scale sci-fi game designed for large battles (although it can easily be scaled from titanic clashes to small skirmishes). It primarily uses D6′s, although a few cards will also be involved to inject additional flavour.
The whole project has been built around the central theme/ concept of air mobile forces. Often, speed, rapid reaction and flexibility will bring you victory. While you can play a simple ‘fight to the death’, the game will work best with scenario based gameplay. Tactical operations in modern warfare is rarely a simple battle of attrition.
An example I like to use is a Blackhawk Down/ Battle of Mogadishu situation. Perhaps you need to capture VIP’s from multiple locations, and extract them safely from the combat zone – you might not even have a friendly table edge!
The rules have been written, but are still in the playtesting phase, so this might change a bit. However, we are always working with this goal/ flavour in mind.
4. Why scale it at 10mm?
Dave: A lot people have been asking this, and it’s nice to get the chance to answer this question. There’s a whole set of reasons:
A) The project started with the concept of air mobility. I wanted to give gamers something fresh (very hard to do in the world of Sci-fi, which can be quite ubiquitous). As such, the entire game as well as its models were designed around this central tenet. That way the whole thing could stay pure to its ideal.
In 6mm, the miniatures would have frequently been too small and fiddly to achieve the designs I had in mind for such a game. 15mm scale would certainly have given me that freedom, but would have made the game too unwieldy to play. 15mm scale works fantastically for WWII games, where the largest unit you’re likely to field is a King Tiger Tank, and games tend to revolve around infantry actions, supported by armour. However, DzC is far more focused on vehicles, many of which are very large (e.g. heavy dropships able to deliver nine main battle tanks to the fray!) These would have been very big in 15mm, making the fielding of groups of them unrealistic both in terms of cost to the player and space required. I wanted a 4×4 table to be fine for a normal sized game. Also, buildings (capturing, garrisoning etc.) are central to the way the game plays. These would have been too large to be practical for most gamers (above small houses anyway).
B) I always intended to be as accurate as possible in scale, with as little abstractions as possible. 6mm would have required over-thick gun barrels etc, detracting from the realism. Also, I feel that 6mm infantry usually possess very little character. 10mm I think is the minimum scale to inject some real personality into infantry models (at least of the kind ordinary mortals can see!)
C) Heroic (ish) 28mm scale has proven so popular over the years, because I believe that’s about the ideal size for a miniature (at least for a ‘standard’ sized unit). In 10mm scale, my tanks are around 30-35mm in their largest dimension, closely matching the size of model people seem most happy with. Since you will be fielding mostly units around this size, it makes it familiar and friendly in terms of handling.
D) As Dropzone Commander will be a complete game, with a full range, rules and design ethos, I hope people will buy into this wonderful scale, previously largely overlooked by the mainstream. In terms of scenery availability, we intend to provide a full range. This includes the highly detailed resin modular stuff shown at Salute, but we also have plans for a modern style ‘flatpack’ city, which will be inexpensive. This will allow players to play with a highly portable city, reducing the investment needed to play in urban environments to a small amount. Also (although no one seems to have picked up on this yet), at 1:188 scale 10mm is very close to model railway N scale (1:200), where plenty of affordable scenery is readily available. Of course, 6-15mm natural scenery can easily be used for 10mm games. Sorry for the long justification – it’s just nice to get this out there to end the speculation! (My pleasure! – James)
5. For the fluff junkies out there, tell a little about factions and story line etc.
Dave: There’s plenty of background in the book, since I believe gamers should know when/ where they’re fighting, why they’re fighting and what they’re fighting with. Dropzone Commander will introduce a rich game universe from the outset, giving people plenty of scope for developing scenarios, campaigns and narratives.
In essence, the game is about hope and vengeance (not the usual dark drudgery!) Mankind has previously suffered a horrendous defeat at the hands of the Scourge. The greatest planets in mankind’s former hegemony (including Earth itself) are all in enemy hands. Humanity has had to build a new culture from the ashes, based around the previously unglamorous and marginalised frontier colonies – the United Colonies of Mankind.
The opening of Dropzone Commander sees a resurgent mankind launching an epic invasion to wrest its lost heartlands from the hands of the Scourge, one planet at a time. This gives scope for battles both on the colonies and on Scourge occupied worlds.
The other two races play a crucial (albeit a supporting) role in the overall tale. The Shaltari are a highly advanced alien race, based in tribes. These tribes are often capricious, frequently violent and often unpredictable. Their motives and attitudes can be wildly different, and always challenging for humans to comprehend. As such, their role can vary hugely – giving the player plenty of scope.
The Post-Human Republic (PHR) are the once human descendants of those who fled the central planets before the Scourge invasion. They have developed entirely separately form the rest of humanity, and have recently emerged from isolation a changed species. They are greatly enhanced cybernetically, and no longer think of themselves as human. They have achieved this advancement (as well as their timely escape in the past) with the aid of mysterious council…
As expansions are released the timeline will actually progress, giving players new insights into the story, as well as an ever increasing range of battles to fight.
6. Tell us about the miniatures. These were the cleanest sculpts I have ever seen, how was this achieved?
Dave: The majority of the models were computer developed, and rapid prototyped into masters using the most advanced high detail processes currently available. I worked to the very limits of detail this technology could provide, giving discernible features as small as 0.1mm in size, as well as smooth curved surfaces, completely devoid of stepping. This was quite an investment (both in time and money!), but I believe the results speak for themselves.
I hand sculpted the infantry, since I believe that traditionally sculpted biologicals always feel more ‘alive’ somehow than digitally produced ones. I certainly don’t believe that sculpting is dead, it’s just a case of horses for courses!
The commitment to quality extended to preparation of the thousands of sub-master parts, all of which I meticulously prepared myself. It was by far the most gruelling and least enjoyable aspect of the project (imagine months of nothing but cleaning up metal parts – talk about RSI!) However, this way I could be sure that the detail and quality was maintained.
Almost all the models you saw at Salute were actual production models. We’re using state of the art casting techniques to deliver this level of quality at a large and affordable scale.
Every single ground unit (except those of the Shaltari, who use portals) is physically dropship mobile. This means they will physically fit into their parent transports. While this isn’t required in game terms, the fact that it’s possible heightens the realism and gives plenty of scope for all sorts of hobby projects.
7. What difficulties have you faced with designing your miniature range?
Dave: Aside from the myriad and solvable technical issues, the major difficulty I found was working in isolation. It’s hard to push yourself every single day with no one around to raise your morale and share the pain. At uni we always carried each other through the hard times, with an ‘all in the same boat’ sort of camaraderie. Also, it’s hard to tell what people will think of the models when you’re trying to keep it quiet, so it’s hard to keep doubt from your mind. That’s why it’s so refreshing to finally be able to talk to people openly!
8. What can we expect to see in the coming months leading to the release date?
Dave: I’ll be trying my best to release a promo image on twitter (@hawkwargames) (Followed!-James) and facebook (Don’t like facebook-James) every day until June 1st, when the full website (www.hawkwargames.com) (Bookmarked!-James) goes fully live. At that point we’ll be announcing the prices and you’ll be able to pre-order, for shipping on July 16th. The only thing at Salute that won’t be released at that point will be the buildings, since we’re focusing on the models for now (there’s only so much a body can do at once!) They will certainly be coming well before the end of the year though.
9. There were a large number of attractive young ladies at your Salute stand, speaking as a Geek thats just about snagged one woman and married her to keep her around, how?
Dave: Lol! Well I frequently wonder why Bex (my ever supportive girlfriend) has stuck with me though all this – I honestly couldn’t say! She was wonderful at Salute. My friends and family were also there to help throughout the day, and I thank them all for their hard work and patience! Without their tireless support I could never have had a hope of producing this game
10. Are there any other games in future of Hawk Wargames?
Dave: Oh yes, plenty. I have plans to extend the Sci-fi universe I’m weaving around Dropzone Commander to other games, as well as branching out into previously untouched territory. I won’t say any more for now, but if this project goes well I have at least a decade’s worth of plans in the making! Expect to see many expansions and new releases for DzC as well.
These can physically attach to the dropship, 6 of them!
And there you have it! from the horses mouth to my pixels. My pixels to your eyes. What is seen cannot be unseen. Please follow Dave (@HawkWargames) on Twitter to get up to date pictures for all your eye candy based needs and to support him on this new endevour! and keep an eye for the website to go live!
My eternal thanks go to Dave for taking the time out to answer my nonsense, and to his entire team for their efforts at Salute and the production of this game!
Cheerio for now!
David over at Hawk Wargames has given the 6 Inch Move team permission to share with you an interview with a fellow blogger from Germany, Patrick Landerfeld. Please take into consideration that Patrick’s first language is not English.
David at Hawk Wargames - Salute 2012
Here goes:
I found some questions which haven’t been answered yet. It would be nice if you could answer them although some questions might be too soon for you to answer.
I’m jumping a bit between topics because I wrote the questions down as they came to my mind. Also excuse my English, it’s a bit rusty….
1. The game combines aerial combat with ground combat in an unique and unseen way. Will there be possibilities to focus on airplanes or tanks without losing combat strength. Or are certain units necessary?(Like a minimum of 1 Dropship in an all-tank-list?)
Like most games, your force composition will be governed by certain restraints, designed to prevent overly unbalanced armies (you won’t be able to take an entire army of fighter aircraft for example!). There will be a fair amount of freedom though, allowing plenty of different tactical combinations. Generally, a healthy mix of unit types will work best, since they all have their own (often essential) specialties
2. I know the game is totally new and the rules are still in play testing. Is there a timeline which includes a rulebook in other languages? I know it’s a cost-factor and many German hobbyists own the English originals of other games. But for many players a mother tongue-rulebook is essential.
There’s been a lot of interest from German gamers, as well as those from other nations. Although there’s no official timeline at this early stage, we’ve started looking into the various paths, costs etc. for translation and I’m certainly not ruling it out! Obviously we’re concentrating on the English version right now, but if we can at least break even with foreign language translations we’ll strongly consider it!
3. When your preorders go up, will the rules be available and already printed?
We’re still finalizing the rulebook at this stage, but we are planning to have it ready to ship on the 16th of July along with the models. There will be Q&A’s, example armies, lists and army deals available, so you can be sure of having a usable army from day one!
4. Foreign shipping can be quite expensive for small parcels. Do you already have contracts with foreign distributors to cover their home-market? If so, don’t go with Ulisses in Germany… they do a poor job with their Indie-Tabletops under contract. It’s only because of the popularity of Infinity and the PP-Games that there is a decent gamer-base. It’s always frustrating for players like me, when you want to really get started and then have to wait for a month till your orders arrive….
Probably a little early to comment in detail, but we are in the process of organizing this. Since the models are almost exclusively resin, extremely tough and lightweight, we should be doing shipping deals from the start, keeping the shipping costs down for everyone. This will all be officially announced when the site goes fully live on the 1st June.
Hawk Wargames - Salute 2012
5/6. Concerning the finances… Can you approximate what a standard-battlegroup would cost? When thinking of 40k you need something around 400-600 Euros, with Infinity you are set with just about 100 Euros, what about Dropzone Commander? What would be the standard Battlegroup-Size to play decent games? I know you said that the rules also cover small games, but to be honest most of the games start totally functioning at a certain point-level. I can play 300 points 40k games ruleswise… but that has nothing to do with fun anymore.
Dropzone Commander is a full battle game, designed with fairly large engagements in mind. However, you can also play with small armies. The rules are specifically designed to support this, where the size of your individual battlegroups (around 4-6 of which make up an army) will change in relation to game size. The main upshot of which is that the ‘feel’ of gameplay isn’t spoilt by having very large/ very small forces. I can’t comment categorically on prices at this stage since we’re still finalizing them, but you certainly won’t need to spend 400 Euros just to be able to play!
7. How long do the normal game sizes last when playing? Do I have to think more in skirmish-length (30-120 min.) or bigger like 40k (3-6h)
Assuming the players have got to the stage where they know the rules well and only need to refer to unit stats occasionally, a normal game is designed to run around the 1:30/ 3hr mark. This is only a VERY rough estimate, since this depends so much on players, scenarios and the aforementioned variations in army size. All I can say for sure is that the rules are designed with flowing gameplay in mind, with minimal record keeping.
8. We all are hoping for a good start with Dropzone Commander. Are you planning on including fan” work” which helps players? (It sounds a bit strange when I write it like that, but I’ll explain: Often list-building, which is a keypoint in tabletop-gaming, can be quite complicated when you are new to a game or a faction. Tools like the Armybuilder for Infinity really help when you are trying out some concepts for your army list. Companies like GW consider tools like this as an IP-Infringement…. )
The Armybuilder for Infinity is more or less official and included in the Infinity-Homepage and supported by Corvus Belli staff. Could you imagine treating fan based work like that similar?
It’s something we’ve been thinking about, but to be honest at this stage we need to concentrate on getting the core product just right. However, will certainly be thinking of such things after the main release! The army deals will also be complete armies, with downloadable lists to go with them to get you started straight away.
9. Obviously for the start the rulebook is essential and includes the rules. But can we await faction-own books (Codices, Army books,…) which include the faction army lists and fluff, or will you update the game with core-rulebooks which include all factions? (Like Infinity does with their Rulebook and Human Sphere)
The main rulebook will include full lists, painting guides and plenty of fluff for all 4 starting races. We’re working on a 150 page framework, and it’s proving a job to squeeze it all in! Future races and new units for the existing ones will be featured in expansions. These won’t simply cover new models, but will also advance the timeline of the story and will introduce more scenarios, settings and narratives to fight your battles around.
10. Can you give us a bit more detail concerning the basic game mechanics? I know it will be more of a “You Go, I Go”-System with the alternate activation of battlegroups. Are there more unique game mechanics like that? (For Example in Infinity a key game-mechanic is the reactive System, where you can react with every unit which has a line of sight to an active enemy…)
There are a few interrupts you can play. For example, individual anti-air units can be specially activated to fire on passing enemy aircraft, and interceptor fighters can also act in a similar manner (I can’t be more specific for the moment, since we’re still playtesting!) There will also be certain interrupt abilities available, with the aim of keeping all players engaged as much as possible. Since you’ll only be activating around 1/5th of your army at any one time though, players are seldom left with nothing to do for long!
Hope this has been helpful, and has answered a few more questions people may have had. When the full site goes live a lot more will be revealed in specific detail. For now, I’m back to the Studio looking forward to another wonderful 2am – thank the lord for FX and late night Family Guy/ American Dad!
Hope this gives you more to chew on before June 1st!
Well there you have it folks some more information about this exciting game, I wish it was June
Carabus03
Whole Model Range
Spoiler:
Shaltari Tribes
Gaia Heavy Gate
Spirit Light Gate (light dropship equivalent)
Ocelot Warstrider - Armed with the awesome particle cannon! The most powerful line of sight weapon in the game (so far...)
Jaguar Warstrider - a formidable threat to both tanks and aircraft
Tomahawk MGT
Eden Medium Gate
Braves - 3 per base, since they fight in armoured warsuits!
Warspear Heavy Fighter
Haven TerraGate
Yari Light Tank - 2 armed with ion cannons (anti-air), the other 2 with microwave guns (anti-infantry)”
Looks very promising. I'll have to keep tabs on this one.
Reasons not to read dakka at work - I lol'd so much coffee nearly covered the keyboard. Jayne rules!!!
Seriously though, the more I see of this the more I like it. Will definately have to save up for the next couple of months and try and get my gaming buddies interested in this one.
OK, definitly hooked om UCM and Scourge.... this together with the upcoming movies will cause this summer to be known as "Summer of the howling Wallets".
I will certainly be watching this game! The models are just fantastic. Currently, I am drawn to the colonial humans, but the post-human faction looks pretty awesome as well. The human dropship with the underslung tanks just looks badass.
It looks great, but it's a damn shame it's 10mm and not 15mm. Or 6mm. Or 25mm. Really, anything OTHER than 10mm. I have no terrain for 10mm and don't intend to get any just for one game unless it's so amazingly good it replaces all my other games (unlikely), Such an odd scale choice.
It's too bad, the game looks fantastic and the models look top-notch.
Samurai_Eduh wrote:I will certainly be watching this game! The models are just fantastic. Currently, I am drawn to the colonial humans, but the post-human faction looks pretty awesome as well. The human dropship with the underslung tanks just looks badass.
If you watch the video in the OP they tell you how all of the tanks are "truescale" and can physically fit into the Dropships. So if a Dropship can carry 9 tanks in-game, you bet your ass it can IRL.
Wow, I'm loving it. Has a very "babylon 5" feel to me - and that is a good thing!
I love that it has burst onto the scene as a complete game that seems to have been driven into existence by one guy - hats off to him, and congratulations!
two months of lead time before anyone else can buy anything isn't exactly what I'd call "bursting onto the scene", but making your debut at Salute with a high-profile display and a large range of high-quality models left an impression
How many games appear that completely? Two months before you can buy a complete line of models? The typical miniatures start up is only a handful of figures at a time, or at most one faction.
The 10mm stuff only really matters for terrain and infantry. The big walkers will look great as "robots" in 28mm and the ships as fliers.
Unlike most start ups though, the game concept is interesting enough to make me want to play it, rather than just rip the figures off for 40K
So far, the only thing I don't really like are the Scourge drop ships, and even those just look weird as opposed to fugly, so a strong start for the challenger, I guess.
Two huge points in favor of the people making these designs:
1. What we're seeing of the different vehicles in each faction looks consistent across the faction.
2. Each faction is provoking an "Ooh, maybe I could play them too!" feeling from me. That's a good sign when I pretty much want to get them all.
There is room for improvement though. The scourge heavy dropship is... odd. There's no way around it. I'm trying to envision how a flying vehicle deploys tanks from above the flyer. It's a design choice, a bold design choice, but I can see it as a liability for the line.
Another area I see room for improvement in is the tanks. A lot of them give me a strong feeling that the turret just doesn't fit with the chassis. Perhaps this is because for a lot of tanks they are quite clearly separate pieces. The Tomahawks don't have this problem, but the Sabres, Hunters, and Slayers do. At first I thought the problem may be that the Hunter and Slayer turrets don't seem to cover up any interesting details. But the Juno doesn't either and it looks fine. I think the problem is maybe more that the turrets often don't appear to elevate. For the Shaltari tanks (that can elevate) this adds another dimension of interest.
I'm surprised you don't like the looks of the Post-Humans, Scuffy. You seem to be a fan of the Tau-esthetic, and I see plenty of that in the Post-Humans.
As for the game - I'm all in. I've been needing a game to scratch that sci-fi itch, and as fantastic as Infinity is, this is more my deal. Rules will be the go/no-go, since I've already become smitten with the aesthetics of the factions.
And the factions! I want to know more! Why are there 2 factions of humans? What caused the rift? Where are (is?) the Scourge from? What does (do?) it (they?) want? Are the Shaltari essentially elves that act like 40k's ork, and if so, how do we stop everyone from playing as them?!
Oh, I also found some pictures on a German blog. More interesting vehicles for the Humans:
JOHIRA wrote:
Two huge points in favor of the people making these designs:
1. What we're seeing of the different vehicles in each faction looks consistent across the faction.
2. Each faction is provoking an "Ooh, maybe I could play them too!" feeling from me. That's a good sign when I pretty much want to get them all.
There is room for improvement though. The scourge heavy dropship is... odd. There's no way around it. I'm trying to envision how a flying vehicle deploys tanks from above the flyer. It's a design choice, a bold design choice, but I can see it as a liability for the line.
Yes, it does look odd but I would assume the logic behind it is the "HGT" in the pictures refers to "...Grav Tank" so, yeah.
JOHIRA wrote:
Two huge points in favor of the people making these designs:
1. What we're seeing of the different vehicles in each faction looks consistent across the faction.
2. Each faction is provoking an "Ooh, maybe I could play them too!" feeling from me. That's a good sign when I pretty much want to get them all.
There is room for improvement though. The scourge heavy dropship is... odd. There's no way around it. I'm trying to envision how a flying vehicle deploys tanks from above the flyer. It's a design choice, a bold design choice, but I can see it as a liability for the line.
Yes, it does look odd but I would assume the logic behind it is the "HGT" in the pictures refers to "...Grav Tank" so, yeah.
If you look at the back of the Scourge HGT, it appears to have jet engine like items sticking from the rear. Perhaps they jettison from the dropship and use the thrust to propel themselves away while using the "anti-gravity" part of their HGT name to float to the ground.
Think along the lines of them being ejected one after the other, bottom to top, and floating down. Pretend your CD player shoots out the discs one at a time at high speed.
At least that's the theory I'm using.
[Edit] Hell, for that matter, maybe they fall out the back as the ship travels forward and they float down. Like a chicken that runs along laying eggs behind it.
THey remind me so much of a combo of Supreme Commander and C&C3 that I am in LOVE!
Just need an HQ mech or so unit and it will be much like SC!
Love all the models but not a HUGE fan of the Scourge. . . .Love how the dropships actually can hold your models without having to be the size of a Manta. . . .
JOHIRA wrote:
Two huge points in favor of the people making these designs:
1. What we're seeing of the different vehicles in each faction looks consistent across the faction.
2. Each faction is provoking an "Ooh, maybe I could play them too!" feeling from me. That's a good sign when I pretty much want to get them all.
There is room for improvement though. The scourge heavy dropship is... odd. There's no way around it. I'm trying to envision how a flying vehicle deploys tanks from above the flyer. It's a design choice, a bold design choice, but I can see it as a liability for the line.
Yes, it does look odd but I would assume the logic behind it is the "HGT" in the pictures refers to "...Grav Tank" so, yeah.
I know, but it still looks odd. Since it's a grav tank and not say a grav flyer, one presumes the HGT will want to be on a downward trajectory. The transport will want to be on an upward trajectory. It's a needless complication to design the transport so that the two trajectories must cross paths.
Unless the tanks somehow fall out the back. That's a maneuver I could envision working. It still looks odd, but it's a tad more believable.
JOHIRA wrote:
Two huge points in favor of the people making these designs:
1. What we're seeing of the different vehicles in each faction looks consistent across the faction.
2. Each faction is provoking an "Ooh, maybe I could play them too!" feeling from me. That's a good sign when I pretty much want to get them all.
There is room for improvement though. The scourge heavy dropship is... odd. There's no way around it. I'm trying to envision how a flying vehicle deploys tanks from above the flyer. It's a design choice, a bold design choice, but I can see it as a liability for the line.
Yes, it does look odd but I would assume the logic behind it is the "HGT" in the pictures refers to "...Grav Tank" so, yeah.
I know, but it still looks odd. Since it's a grav tank and not say a grav flyer, one presumes the HGT will want to be on a downward trajectory. The transport will want to be on an upward trajectory. It's a needless complication to design the transport so that the two trajectories must cross paths.
Unless the tanks somehow fall out the back. That's a maneuver I could envision working. It still looks odd, but it's a tad more believable.
i always pictured the tanks sliding from the back of the Heavy Transport and floating to the ground while the Transport continues at speed.
The colonies seem to have both anti air vehicles and air defense radars. The tricky things will be getting the range on air defense right. If it essentially covers the table top it won't be that interesting. If you have areas of the board you can't fly into (and thus have to suppress the air defense, or land outside and advance on the ground), that will be cooler, but less realistic at this scale.
How the fliers move will also be interesting. Are they basically skimmers, or do they zoom on and off the board?
The interview notes that the rules are "simple" but has some disclaimers about the airborn element adding to the complexity. That seems cool to me.
Height above the table has never scaled well with infantry, plus it's hard to do well if you don't use telescoping stands to show height. Really high stands are also invitations to knock the minis over.
Well, if their models are as tough as they claim, maybe you can knock them over no problem. I don't see any sign of telescoping stands in the pics however. Probably its more abstract than that.
What's interesting is that the different factions all look different. I've mostly been a GW (and PP of late) player, though something like this if I can find some opponents could pull me away.
Models apart, I hope they release some of the ruleset and give us an idea for how it plays. Maybe a video battle demo.
It appears to be a very "hard sci fi" feel. I like that. It does mean though that the armies seem to all operate on the same "physics" more or less, and that means less variety. I'm OK with that, but maybe future expansions will bring in a "horde" race or the like.
The battles seem intended to take place on human worlds occupied by the scourge in many cases. What are they doing to the inhabitants? They have a very matrix bot feel...
Scourge dropships are super creepy. I really like'em. Only figures I'm not real impressed with are the Scourge infantry. Everything else I want hordes of. It'll be awesome to have a well supported 10mm game.
Everything actually seems to be looking nice so far. It's good to see a large-scale game that doesn't subscribe to the failures of Spartan games by having symmetric factions of clones with marginally different models.
I hope they maintain the balance with asymmetric units.
Regardless, this really looks like a Tabletop version of Supreme Commander.
Both games have four factions:
The Human Military, the superhuman Psychic Religious guys, the Corrupt/Eviltech Humans, and the Aliens.
Everything looks really nice. There's a nod to some existing franchises but for the most part the designs are radically different to anything else currently on the market. I think this game might prove that you don't need to be making obvious ripoffs to succeed in the industry.
Seems interesting, if I can find a gaming group to play it with and if it's not too expensive I could see this actually replacing my planned Dark Angels army when their book comes out.
So far everything is a definate like aside from the Scourge Vehicles (except the not reaper wich is wicked) and the Shaltari Braves infantry. I just hope that infantry are a doable thing in this game, as I love my air cav far more than I love my mechanized.
I like that the Shaltari are apparently giants - nice move away from Eldar. I like the scourge infantry too - more than their ships, though I do hope they have a truly alien infantry type.
It is interesting that this game seems to pay hommage to a new generation of gaming memes - 40K comes out of star wars, the lord of the rings, and the world wars. DZC references the Matrix, desert storm, and various video games.
The low profile of the tanks is great - makes sense.
kestral wrote:I like that the Shaltari are apparently giants - nice move away from Eldar. I like the scourge infantry too - more than their ships, though I do hope they have a truly alien infantry type.
It is interesting that this game seems to pay hommage to a new generation of gaming memes - 40K comes out of star wars, the lord of the rings, and the world wars. DZC references the Matrix, desert storm, and various video games.
The low profile of the tanks is great - makes sense.
You are quite right about the new generation memes, which gives it a new feel to the miniature wargaming community.
The PHR ships remind me of the Terminator movies.
Wow, I hadn't come into this thread until now, these models are absolutely beautiful!
Thank you, ChocolateGork, for keeping the OP updated with pics . Made it very easy to get a feel for the range all at once. I think the Shaltari ship designs are quite stunning!
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't like the models? They just seem... I dunno... meh to me.
More power to you if you love 'em, but not interested at all.
You're not alone. The only figures I like are the Immortals. It's a shame because I'd really like some big dropships that would be useful for 6mm gaming, but I don't like any of these designs.
Apparently an army is meant to be 4-6 battlegroups, a typical battle group being a dropship with its tanks or other units. Small games use small battlegroups, big games use larger ones. That makes seem like you can get a playable army fairly cheaply, assuming FOW type prices. This looks sort of like Sci-Fi flames of war, which is great by me. I love the way that game plays, but just can't get that excited about the figures - not enough of a history nut I suppose.
After the initial "shock and awe" I had over the Shaltari, I think this is definitely in my "would be awesome, but not needed" category.
The rulebook, however, I'd definitely like to see... it'd make the models that much more appealing, if I thought I had any chance at all of others being interested and possibly getting a game in. Hard to adopt a new game in a vacuum!
The variety and lack of forced similarity of these minis is infinitely better than anything Spartan Games has ever rushed out (and ignored).
I was talking about the ship in the post above as it relates to Microsofts Halo franchise.
Wait a minute, there isn't even a covenant in Firestorm Armada .
Dystopian Wars has The Covenant of Antarctica, the futuretech faction.
Ever since Spartan abandoned all plans for Firestorm Invasion, Dystopian Wars is the closest thing that exists to Dropzone Commander. Both are surface-battles with massive focus on air support.
Absolutionis wrote:[
Ever since Spartan abandoned all plans for Firestorm Invasion, Dystopian Wars is the closest thing that exists to Dropzone Commander. Both are surface-battles with massive focus on air support.
Strongly disagree with such poor statement. Neither the scale nor the thematics are nearly close to it! Actually Dystopian is closer to Epic 40k but in a smaller scale.
If you want to find games close to the Dropzone Commander (10 mm): Gruntz 15 mm or the one that fits better Heavy Gear: Blitz, which is 12 mm with similar thematics, Sci fi with tanks, air support, gears and infantry.
Absolutionis wrote:[
Ever since Spartan abandoned all plans for Firestorm Invasion, Dystopian Wars is the closest thing that exists to Dropzone Commander. Both are surface-battles with massive focus on air support.
Strongly disagree with such poor statement. Neither the scale nor the thematics are nearly close to it! Actually Dystopian is closer to Epic 40k but in a smaller scale.
If you want to find games close to the Dropzone Commander (10 mm): Gruntz 15 mm or the one that fits better Heavy Gear: Blitz, which is 12 mm with similar thematics, Sci fi with tanks, air support, gears and infantry.
I meant out of all of Spartan Games's games. I meant it in that Firestorm Armada is not comparable to Dropzone Commander in any way.
I'm pretty impressed by this game. The models all look really good and the factions look distinct. I do wonder though how much of it is the paint jobs.
If the rules are as well constructed as these models, then I am going to love this game. I am a big fan of 10mm-15mm scale games, and I love Sci-Fi, so this has me intrigued.
If the rules are as well constructed as these models, then I am going to love this game. I am a big fan of 10mm-15mm scale games, and I love Sci-Fi, so this has me intrigued.
Well then, just need to be patient.
Only gotta wait just under 3 weeks for the pre-orders to go up...
While I'm still not interested in a 10mm game, I'm definitely tempted to buy some of those Republic walkers to use as squad level fire support robots in 28mm.
The gate thing is odd. Potentially cool, but odd. Are troops associated with a specific "gate" and only enter through that one? If so, what's the point? Can any unit enter through any gate? Better, but why so many gates and why do the gates match the dropship types if that is the case? Coolest case, they have lots of gates, but big units can only enter through big gates.
Scroll wrote:Only bases I saw at the show were for the infantry.
So I guess they really do just sit on the table like that? Interesting...
Edit: Actually, in the image spoilered in the post above mine, there's a note "not including flying base" when it lists the height of the minder swarm. So at least some ships will have flying bases, it seems.
And that is a very interesting pic (one I'd probably already seen and forgotten, with the plethora in this thread!) with some models (heavy grav tanks) sitting on the ground, with other ships on flying stands. I'm guessing it will be rules-driven as to which get flying stands or not.
The reason I started asking about this, is I don't see any conceivable way to mount this on a flying stand:
So, I guess it'll be on the ground, unless they've come up with something clever!
Perhaps the gates just drop out of the sky with a thump and sit there. That would balance them against dropships if they can teleport any unit you want to through them.
Ah, you're right! From the angle, I didn't even realize there was a "stem" jutting out into the center there. I think that is highly possible... and would make me like that model a lot better if it could be mounted
In some ways I'm unhappy to see the invader APC. The factions are starting to look more like each other, if they may all have the same vehicle options that just look different.
As it stands, the only unique features (with no rough equivelent in other factions) for each faction that I can see are:
Post Humans:
Walkers (assuming these actually play differently than tanks, which they may not)
Armored Fighting Vehicle (heavy gun APC looks to be)
Scourge:
Minder swarm
Floating reaper thingy.
Possibly a second infantry type.
May lack Air Defense
Colonies:
Little wheeled fast attack buggies
Tank destroyers
Air defense or command/control variant of the APC
Tribes:
Possibly signficantly different infantry
Gate mechanic (but same classes as dropships)
May lack an APC
Some kind of walker
kestral wrote:In some ways I'm unhappy to see the invader APC. The factions are starting to look more like each other, if they may all have the same vehicle options that just look different.
As it stands, the only unique features (with no rough equivelent in other factions) for each faction that I can see are:
Post Humans:
Walkers (assuming these actually play differently than tanks, which they may not)
Armored Fighting Vehicle (heavy gun APC looks to be)
Scourge:
Minder swarm
Floating reaper thingy.
Possibly a second infantry type.
May lack Air Defense
Colonies:
Little wheeled fast attack buggies
Tank destroyers
Air defense or command/control variant of the APC
Tribes:
Possibly signficantly different infantry
Gate mechanic (but same classes as dropships)
May lack an APC
Some kind of walker
The haven gate is essentially an apc as it brings in the troops. It just doesn't carry them as the other race apc's do.
I'm not sure why the inclusion of an APC would make factions look like each other?
Eldar Wave Serpents, Tau Devilfish, IG Chimeras, SM Rhinos/Razorbacks, DE Raiders/Venoms, Necron Ghost Arks and Ork Trukks are all APCs/IFVs of one form or another but those factions are hardly similar.
In any case, does the fact that all the factions have tanks, infantry and dropships not all give them a similar feel?
You have already listed a bunch of stuff that is apparently unique to each faction on the basis of the models we have seen. There will be more that we haven't seen yet and we have no idea how the rules will make each faction play. I would not be surprised to see (within the parameters that the game has set) a very different combat style from all four factions that may well make APCs a 'must have' for some armies and rarely seen in others.
After I posted it, I felt maybe I was being a bit harsh - I came up with more differences than I expected. Hopefully my fears will be groundless. But, the vehicles are not as varied as I would like. An ork trukk is pretty obviously different from a wave serpent. For example, all the heavy tanks feature a twin linked turret, possibly with some kind of hull weapon, regardless of faction. There is nothing as different as a landraider is to a leman russ. Grav tanks MAY be very different, or they may play the same as ground tanks.
As you say though, the rules can easily give a distinct feel. I'm pretty psyched for the game regardless - after all flames of war is a great game with units that are very similar from army to army.
kestral wrote:In some ways I'm unhappy to see the invader APC. The factions are starting to look more like each other, if they may all have the same vehicle options that just look different.
As it stands, the only unique features (with no rough equivelent in other factions) for each faction that I can see are:
Post Humans:
Walkers (assuming these actually play differently than tanks, which they may not)
Armored Fighting Vehicle (heavy gun APC looks to be)
Scourge:
Minder swarm
Floating reaper thingy.
Possibly a second infantry type.
May lack Air Defense
Colonies:
Little wheeled fast attack buggies
Tank destroyers
Air defense or command/control variant of the APC
Tribes:
Possibly signficantly different infantry
Gate mechanic (but same classes as dropships)
May lack an APC
Some kind of walker
Most likely they have special rules and weapons. Same options but diffrent weapons means diffrent tactical situations.
This stuff looks so damn good. I've never played a game at this scale, but these have me wondering about the possibilities. It would be challenging to settle on a faction, though, as every single one has at least a couple astounding choices, but also one or two ooglies.
I really hope there's some free rules action when this drops. If there is I'll be on top of them day one.
The "Height: 45mm (this example)" caveat makes me think that this might have at least some posability (i.e., the legs connect to roller joints or the like). So if you have several they all won't have the same "stance". That's nice
I just measured 45 mm and had my mind blown by the detail on that thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also according to their facebook page this is the third of four special unit preview all in a row (the others being the odin and the seraphim). So we should get to see something special and scourge next.
ChocolateGork wrote:Also according to their facebook page this is the third of four special unit preview all in a row (the others being the odin and the seraphim). So we should get to see something special and scourge next.
I too am contemplating selling some models to get into this stuff, which is usually anathema to me. It is important to keep the scale in mind - for example the Post human walkers are about the size of a space marine... On the other hand, that desolator is huge!
Oh, I thought he was comparing it to the size of a space marine, and it's smaller than a rhino. I must be doing my scale wrong as my calculations put the not reaper at only 3 metres long.
No way.... No way...... That is just too awesome to be believed. How do so many jaw-dropping minis come from one company? And when the HELL is this game coming out? And my Orks are going on ebay tomorrow to finance my new addiction.
Ratbarf wrote:Oh, I thought he was comparing it to the size of a space marine, and it's smaller than a rhino. I must be doing my scale wrong as my calculations put the not reaper at only 3 metres long.
You're doing it wrong. These are 10mm, which is about 1:160 scale.
So... 109mm = 0.109 Metres
0.109 * 160 = 17.44 Metres long
Seriously thinking I'll sell my fantasy army to afford Shaltari. Pretty much decided on it. However, I don't think I'll preorder anything but the rulebook. How can I know what models to get before reading their rules/costs/etc. Might end up with too many dropships or not enough ground forces. Am I missing something here? Genuine question...
RiTides wrote:Seriously thinking I'll sell my fantasy army to afford Shaltari. Pretty much decided on it. However, I don't think I'll preorder anything but the rulebook. How can I know what models to get before reading their rules/costs/etc. Might end up with too many dropships or not enough ground forces. Am I missing something here? Genuine question...
People to play it with, would be my assumption.
Sadly, that's the only thing keeping me away from this game. That and I don't know what the pricing will be like.
I'm a big fan of the PHR stuff. If anything, I might get two factions, paint them up, and throw them in the stores display case in order to try and generate someones interest.
RiTides wrote:Seriously thinking I'll sell my fantasy army to afford Shaltari. Pretty much decided on it. However, I don't think I'll preorder anything but the rulebook. How can I know what models to get before reading their rules/costs/etc. Might end up with too many dropships or not enough ground forces. Am I missing something here? Genuine question...
Hopefull the rules are balanced enough that you can buy pretty much based on what looks best.
RiTides wrote:Seriously thinking I'll sell my fantasy army to afford Shaltari. Pretty much decided on it. However, I don't think I'll preorder anything but the rulebook. How can I know what models to get before reading their rules/costs/etc. Might end up with too many dropships or not enough ground forces. Am I missing something here? Genuine question...
Hopefull the rules are balanced enough that you can buy pretty much based on what looks best.
What do you think this is, Infinity?
I kid, I kid.
I'd really like to see how it plays before dumping money into it. I love the way 3/4 of the factions look, and that's awesome, but without knowing how it plays and without having people to play with, I'll just enjoy how pretty everything is for now.
I can't imagine that pricing will be too bad, but then I'm comparing it to Dystopian Wars... so I guess we'll wait and see.
Yeah, I meant am I missing something about knowing what's needed to buy to play. Good thoughts so far... Looking forward to more info coming out on what is needed / can be fielded legally, etc.
CDK wrote:I admit I'm an Infinity fanatic but that's because it works! the d20 in a game just opens up for so much more. Even if they go with d10 it would help.
I am a big Infinity fan as well, but let us not kid ourselves: d20 can open up just as much randomness and yhatzee mechanics as d6 - it is just more granular, and you can easiy convince yourself that modifiers of larger numbers in a d20 system are more precice or reliable than modifiers of smaller numbers in a d6 system, even if you use the burst mechanic. Bell curves (which can be done with multiples of any dice), on the other hand....
CDK wrote:I hope they don't do d6's :( There's so little room for detail with them.
Considering the Hawk Wargames logo, it'll likely be d6's.
I can't imagine this not being the case, as Absolutionis says. It's in the logo!
Now to try to forget about this for 2 weeks, unless they're going to put out some rules teasers! The way he briefly describes gameplay in the video in the OP sounds fantastic.
Thankfully three people in my shop are interested!
Looks like we have two scourge players, 1 PHR and 1 normal humies.
Looks like plently of opportunities for teamups and one off games. I'm so anxious! I wasnt really turned on to Dystopian wars at all but I liked the scale a lot.
Mine might be, too! Most want to see the rules first, though, which I will eagerly oblige once they're released . Hopefully there will be a lot of rules previews/info on June 1, as well.
You guys are so fast! I just subscribed to the twitter feed ( @HawkWargames ) like 20 minutes ago, right before this was posted... new to this so not sure how to get notified when there's a new tweet. But those are yet more cool models
Is it just me, or is the Janus incompatible with the PHR dropships?
I'll probably get some Janus and a couple of Enyos as Japanese scout and combat drones to accompany the UAMC. Any idea what the prices are going to be like?
I like the Yari tanks - looks like we have an air defense variant, and some kind of weapon we haven't seen before. I spotted the Scourge air defense in the scourge group shot we saw earlier - looks like a variant of their basic grav tank.
Notably, the scourge are the only ones with anything that could be considered a "close combat weapon", which is fine with me.
ChocolateGork wrote:Do we know who the sculptor is for the shaltari ?
All the current miniatures in the game were designed and modelled by the same guy, who is the founder of the company and who also improved the casting process technology so that the miniatures could show such a high grade of detail and definition. Vehicles were 3D digitally computer modelled and infantry was handcrafted sculpted. That's what he has dedicated his last two years and half of his life to.
Agreed! I don't think the infantry are quite as strong as his digital sculpts, but then again they're Really small. That's not going to make or break it either way for me.
Sounds like he's still playtesting, I guess they'll have the book printed soon after preorders, or the like? That concerns me a little bit, but if he's put one fraction of the care into the rules that he put into the models, I think it should be very good. He's seems extremely detail oriented, so I'm hoping for a tight ruleset.
Wow just found this thread! Looks like Starcraft sized battles on the tabletop!
Like the human factions, aliens are too weird. I'm a conservative about my war-games and
Prefer good old human vs human
Even at this scale though with such advanced technology I imagine if you cansee something it's dead. Like an Abrams MBT taking out enemy armor at extreme range. Not really a fun way to game. Interesting to see how the rules treat it. Realistic or more space opera?
Nope, I haven't bothered to open an account with Warpath. Too bad of a reputation, and too far from me.
E-Figures is getting it in. They tend to specialize in games like that, and go pretty big on them. I was getting Malifaux and Army Painter a year ahead of other US distributers getting in those lines.
The prowlers are the first Scourge unit that I have really liked thus far, right now I think I'm heading PSHR in a big way, but the Shaltari tanks look soo good. Too bad I really don't like their infantry. They remind me heavily of the Cybran or Red faction from Supreme Commander. I hope that my local shop has a few other people interested in this game, it looks like it should be really cool.
kestral wrote:Hadn't seen the prowlers in any other picture - cool! Makes me wonder what else I've missed.
We're all getting it from the twitter feed as he's drip-feeding a single pic each day up until June 1!
It's @HawkWargames , if you're curious, but all the recent pics from it have also been posted into this thread by folks.
ChocolateGork, it'd be cool if you were to update the OP to have the preview pics of each unit, organized by army... if you don't get to it, I might do it this weekend and either post it in here, or PM it to you to copy whatever's useful from it into the OP.
Awesome that you're stocking it, mikhaila! I hope guys in this area get into it, I'd totally make it up to your store for some games of this
kestral wrote:Hadn't seen the prowlers in any other picture - cool! Makes me wonder what else I've missed.
We're all getting it from the twitter feed as he's drip-feeding a single pic each day up until June 1!
It's @HawkWargames , if you're curious, but all the recent pics from it have also been posted into this thread by folks.
ChocolateGork, it'd be cool if you were to update the OP to have the preview pics of each unit, organized by army... if you don't get to it, I might do it this weekend and either post it in here, or PM it to you to copy whatever's useful from it into the OP.
Awesome that you're stocking it, mikhaila! I hope guys in this area get into it, I'd totally make it up to your store for some games of this
Considering that NO ONE knew of this for the 2 years of development I think that they can keep drip feeding us.
kestral wrote:Hadn't seen the prowlers in any other picture - cool! Makes me wonder what else I've missed.
We're all getting it from the twitter feed as he's drip-feeding a single pic each day up until June 1!
It's @HawkWargames , if you're curious, but all the recent pics from it have also been posted into this thread by folks.
ChocolateGork, it'd be cool if you were to update the OP to have the preview pics of each unit, organized by army... if you don't get to it, I might do it this weekend and either post it in here, or PM it to you to copy whatever's useful from it into the OP.
Awesome that you're stocking it, mikhaila! I hope guys in this area get into it, I'd totally make it up to your store for some games of this
I was actually considering that but i didn't know if anyone cared or not. I'll get to it right away.
You can see the Minder swarm has exactly the same size hole on the top, so I'm thinking there's a dropship coming that will deliver either a unit of Prowlers or Minders in a cluster
I haven't recieved any info yet. Talking with Chris at E-figures, he's putting together the info, what will be in each wave, etc, and will be getting it out to retailers as soon as he has the info from the Dropzone guys.
In the video he says they have stock of the models already in hand except the buildings, so I wasn't expecting wave releases- just preorders June 1 and regular sales July 16...
I'd imagine the pre-orders will be the pre built armies that have been talked about, with the individual units going on sale over a period of time as they expand beyond the initial starter sets
It's crazy how small most of those units are with that kind of detail. There is very little loss in detail from a 28 mm heroic models that Games Workshop produces and these models that are just over a third of the size. When looking at how big these units would be on the table top I'm just now realizing that it would be very easy to fit several hundred comfortably on a 6'x4' table.
Ratbarf wrote:It's crazy how small most of those units are with that kind of detail. There is very little loss in detail from a 28 mm heroic models that Games Workshop produces and these models that are just over a third of the size. When looking at how big these units would be on the table top I'm just now realizing that it would be very easy to fit several hundred comfortably on a 6'x4' table.
I know, and this makes me wish we knew some of the rules. So I can start planing on building a gaming table
Well you can always use some hills so you could start there. Best to wait to see how the rules treat buildings and cities before getting too far on those.
I have it in my head to make a refinery/plant next to some water effects. I had a N gauge model railroad layout in the basement(mostly just for my toy dinosaurs to destroy)when I was a kid and this game is making me wish we never got rid of it.
endtransmission wrote:I'd imagine the pre-orders will be the pre built armies that have been talked about, with the individual units going on sale over a period of time as they expand beyond the initial starter sets
Is there info on this anywhere? I've seen it mentioned, but haven't seen the source of it.
Another cherry picker turret. Hadn't realized the colonial HBT had them too. Hopefully it gives some cool advantage. Its possible colonial and scourge use the same main gun - they look somewhat similar.
kestral wrote:Another cherry picker turret. Hadn't realized the colonial HBT had them too. Hopefully it gives some cool advantage. Its possible colonial and scourge use the same main gun - they look somewhat similar.
I recall something about scourge as a virus, that take over a host and adapt the technology of that race into there army. (kind of like the flood, from halo)
These all look really nice but with no info on pricing or game play etc its a bit of a risk.
I do wonder why they are only saying advance order at this date without even so much of a hint of pricing, gameplay etc to encourage more people to pick up the game. Yeah the mini`s are nice but its not enough of a selling point when there are so many other games all ready out there
Been following this for a while and I'm really excited for the release date; definitely looking at Shaltari Tribes or PHR.
It might be useful adding the little blurb that comes with the twitter picture as it gives a little insight and flavour into how the game and units might play. Examples:
"Scourge Desolator: Armed with the deadly and indiscriminate Ion Storm Generator superweapon! Beware of friendly fire!"
"Scourge Prowlers - These things can inject tanks with white hot plasma, immolating the unfortunate crew! Nasty... "
I noticed earlier someone tried to list a number of possible differences between the factions, one of which was the scourge having two different troop types. Whilst I can't comment on the scourge the PHR clearly have two different infantry types; Immortals (5 per base) and the "Siren Corps" (3 per base, BoW video 1:44)
As for speculation about not wanting to advance order without pricing details this is again from their twitter feed:
"@RedDogGaz @docbungle @RedDogGaz @docbungle You'll all be swamped with info when the full site goes live btw, we're working flat out on it!"
Although I can understand the frustration of wanting to know in advance I can appreciate (and applaud) that they want to put out a polished product. Hopefully when the site goes live we'll have all the answers we crave. Until then I'll enjoy the advent calendar approach
I've only inculded blurbs that seem to have some possible indication to game play or the units nature.
Scourge:
“Scourge Slayer Heavy Grav Tank - terrifyingly armed, and carrying sinister cargo...”
“Scourge Warriors - Human hosts”
“a swarm of Scourge Minder air defence craft”
"Scourge Desolator: Armed with the deadly and indiscriminate Ion Storm Generator superweapon! Beware of friendly fire!"
"Scourge Prowlers - These things can inject tanks with white hot plasma, immolating the unfortunate crew! Nasty... "
UCM:
“Sabre; Low observable human (UCM) Main Battle Tank”
“Colonial Legionnaires. Standard UCM boots on the ground”
“Archangel - A thoroughbred interceptor. These things rock!”
“UCM Seraphim Strike Fighter - a ground attack powerhouse!”
“A useful little unit for you today - UCM Wolverine scout buggies - can be armed with AA mount miniguns also
PHR:
“ Phobos AA Walker - the bane of enemy aircraft!”
“Immortals - The cyborg warriors of the Republic”
“Athena air superiority fighter”
“Juno A1 IFV - A2 variant has a pair of miniguns btw”
“PHR Odin Heavy Walker” – “...Well this one's an excellent tank-killer, since it's armed with a pair of advanced railguns”
“PHR Janus Scout Walker”
Shaltari Tribes:
“Shaltari Braves - 3 per base, since they fight in armoured warsuits!”
“Shaltari Warspear heavy fighter”
“Shaltari Jaguar Warstrider - a formidable threat to both tanks and aircraft.”
“Shaltari Yari light tank - 2 armed with ion cannons (anti-air), the other 2 with microwave guns (anti-infantry)”
Also scrap what I said about the scourge second troop type; in the video at 3:08 there's clearly a infantry base with three models on it... Difficult to make out... They sort of look like crazy snails...
disty wrote:"Scourge Prowlers - These things can inject tanks with white hot plasma, immolating the unfortunate crew! Nasty... "
I didn't have a problem with the design of the Prowlers before, but this blurb paints them in a disturbing new light.
I'm going to take that as a positive
Also on the video (3:31) the UCM Bear APC separates two groups of infantry units. By the spacing it seems like both have five models per base but they could be unique unit types, a sort of commando unit if you will, otherwise I'd see no need to display four bases of legionnaires... This is becoming a bit of an obsession...
Anyone reading who went to Salute and saw the displays care to comment? I'd appreciate it!
endtransmission wrote:I'd imagine the pre-orders will be the pre built armies that have been talked about, with the individual units going on sale over a period of time as they expand beyond the initial starter sets
Is there info on this anywhere? I've seen it mentioned, but haven't seen the source of it.
I think it was in the video interview from Salute. He mentions that at the start they will be releasing pre-built, balanced armies to get people started so they don't need to worry about buying the wrong models to start with. I would assume this means that the pre-orders will be these pre-built armies and the rest of the models will come out as time goes on.
kestral wrote:Another cherry picker turret. Hadn't realized the colonial HBT had them too. Hopefully it gives some cool advantage. Its possible colonial and scourge use the same main gun - they look somewhat similar.
Considering that the Scourage supposedly ousted the UCM off of Earth and likely stole or reprocessed some technology.
Y'know GWs price hike could be playing right into Daves hands TBH. With the outstanding quality of the models (which i can vouch for hands on) if the pricing model is right i can see him capturing an awful lot of disgruntled GW customers. Having played the game (i signed an NDA so dont ask for specifics) i can say it is very tactical and easy to pick up although there is an impressive depth of strategy available. I really enjoyed it (i won with a last gasp manuever!) and it really is very different from anything else i've played.
I know that this is certainly where my wargaming budget will be going in july. Preorders in one week!!
On what basis can we say that they will be cheaper than GW? GW does not make any similar line of models.
Every damn picture posted reinforces my desire to preorder ASAP. It'd be a shame if the prices were ridiculous. I'm afraid no amount of nice pictures will put more money into my wallet, whatever it may do for the fine gentlemen behind Hawk Wargames.
I know that this is certainly where my wargaming budget will be going in july. Preorders in one week!!
...40K's 6th ed supposedly drops in July according to some rumors. It will be the beginning of a dark time for my finances if it is true... So many things to buy
If the prices are reasonable, Dropship Commander will easily win over 40k for me. Well, barring new Tau or Eldar ... I don't even have to mention Sisters, as they seem to be more of a myth than anything.
Manchu wrote:On what basis can we say that they will be cheaper than GW? GW does not make any similar line of models.
They make a line of similarly sized models, which I assume is what they were being compared to.
Arkenfel wrote:I chatted with the guy who designed the game at Salute and asked him about pricing. His reply was that the models would be slightly more expensive than average as you'd be paying a premium price for a premium product.
When I asked what he considered to be an average price, he was a little vague but when I mentioned GW pricing as a comparison he said that he considered GW pricing to be nowhere near average and that these minis will be priced at a lower point.
I know that this is certainly where my wargaming budget will be going in july. Preorders in one week!!
...40K's 6th ed supposedly drops in July according to some rumors. It will be the beginning of a dark time for my finances if it is true... So many things to buy
Aye, the FFG X-wing combat game hits then too and i have that on pre-order, ill wait and see with 6th... GWs own fault, if it weren't for their draconian marketing model and info blackout.. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT DAMMIT!!!
DZC is the real deal, the material is amazing, the design and detail is out of this world and the rules (even the rough version i played) were pretty damn good. Just waiting for the preorder prices....
Manchu wrote:On what basis can we say that they will be cheaper than GW? GW does not make any similar line of models.
They make a line of similarly sized models, which I assume is what they were being compared to.
Are you referring to Battlefleet Gothic?
No, I was actually referring to Warhammer and 40k. A Sabre MBT is 34mm long, for example, and an Odin is 35-40mm tall. These are close enough to the size of a 28mm model that someone specifically comparing their prices to GW might use them as a reference point.
GW price hikes are pretty much likely to keep me out of 6th. If they had any sort of boost for non MEQ I would likely have bought into Tyranids or Eldar again.
I dunno. Too much is too much. I'd rather pick up a lot of dropzone than two boxes of GW product. (If dropzone is cheap. The minis are so good I'm afraid were going to be paying something premium on 10mm minis.)
Brightside is there's more and more people wanting to play the game thanks to the models.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:Aeronautica Imperialis and Epic would be the best comparison in relation do DzC.
And GW prices are still quite affordable, even for FW-models.
I agree with this, and we don't need to be discussing GW prices in Another thread .
Remember, in the video the creator definitely tried to temper expectations with regards to price. These are going to be "mid-range" priced, apparently... you'll be paying for very high quality miniatures. I think it will be well worth it, but I would not come in expecting these to be cheap.
What I do hope is that, similar to warmahordes, the cost to be able to play a game will be low (i.e. just to get started / get a playable force) while the cost to collect more of the models can be higher.
Hear is the thing for me. I've played 40k since it came out, I dropped out for a good few years through Uni, but got back in some 8 years ago....
Thinking of dropping out again, purely over price.
If DZC is as good as it looks, has a nice set of rules and background, and is price competative (note, competative, not cheap) I'd be DAMN tempted. But my existing financial commitment to existing 40k holds me back from something new... 6th ed, price hickes and Fine cast.... really make me re-consider....
I'm hoping it will be basically Flames of War in space, with some extra flier rules. Assuming it is, and the prices are similar, you are looking at $10 a tank, $20 a drop ship, which means that 4 task groups will cost you about $240, assuming each group is 4 tanks and a drop ship.
One thing I don't see is how the scourge drop the prowlers into action. They have a top attachment point like the Post Humans, but I don't see any scourge drop ship that seems to use that set up.
Druidic wrote:Hear is the thing for me. I've played 40k since it came out, I dropped out for a good few years through Uni, but got back in some 8 years ago....
Thinking of dropping out again, purely over price.
If DZC is as good as it looks, has a nice set of rules and background, and is price competative (note, competative, not cheap) I'd be DAMN tempted. But my existing financial commitment to existing 40k holds me back from something new... 6th ed, price hickes and Fine cast.... really make me re-consider....
But it's not like you're dropping what you've got already by playing something else though is it? Just don't buy new stuff.
I play Warmachine and Hordes and 40k because I get tired of one system after a while, come the new price rise i shall not buy any more 40k but i've got plenty to play with as im sure you have.
Thats GWs weakness once you have stuff there is no real reason to carry on consuming their stuff.
I am very interested in Dropzone so this is where the cash that GW would normally get will go, depending on how much it costs to make an army.
Yes those buildings look soooo awesome, and big too! Fully expect them to cost more than the minis and expect battletech/heavy gear players to snatch these up as well.
kestral wrote:I'm hoping it will be basically Flames of War in space, with some extra flier rules. Assuming it is, and the prices are similar, you are looking at $10 a tank, $20 a drop ship, which means that 4 task groups will cost you about $240, assuming each group is 4 tanks and a drop ship.
One thing I don't see is how the scourge drop the prowlers into action. They have a top attachment point like the Post Humans, but I don't see any scourge drop ship that seems to use that set up.
While that'd be sweet, I don't see it being quite That affordable... beauty and wonderful resin casts have their price!
Against my wallet's wishes, I'll most likely be in for a starter set or 2. Only one I'm not a big fan of is the scourge, can't decide what I like best from the other 3...
RiTides wrote:While that'd be sweet, I don't see it being quite That affordable...
I quite agree. The downside to being tight-lipped about pricing is that there will be speculation -- and silence renders speculation legitimate. I'm not visualizing equivalence between what I could get in 28mm for $240 and what kestral is speculating that I will be able to get in 10mm for $240. This might just be an artifact of my lack of experience with 10mm. But that's the market Hawk Wargames must deal with (outside of the FoW guys).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necros wrote:Only one I'm not a big fan of is the scourge, can't decide what I like best from the other 3...
I like them all but the Colonials and Post-Humans easily stand out as the starters for me.
.
