so pastors tell people to beat their kids if they act gay, dan savage says can't we just ignore that 1 extra part of the bible on top of all the other stuff we already ignore, to kids being bullied to the point of suicide.
is it really so hard to drop 1 more line from the bible out of the many others that are already being ignored? can't we all just get along and live and let live?
so pastors tell people to beat their kids if they act gay, dan savage says can't we just ignore that 1 extra part of the bible on top of all the other stuff we already ignore, to kids being bullied to the point of suicide.
is it really so hard to drop 1 more line from the bible out of the many others that are already being ignored? can't we all just get along and live and let live?
Whats so awesome is thats completely not what the firestorm with gak for brains Savage is about.
Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
Edit: These comments were over the top. Thanks Fraz for not freaking out. Will return later with more nuanced comments. -R
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
I'm evil now. Excellent. I must say though I must be getting slow, its taken until Thursday to be called Evil. I'm getting slow.
Sorry but if you're at being paid to speak at a public high school convention on bulying to high school kids across the nation, then slam Christianity, your a gak head. Anyone who thinks otherwise can push off.
John Lehmann/National Post Dan Savage, a leader of the anti-bullying movement, keeps getting caught belittling others.
.Comments Email Twitter inShare.1.A scene from the anti-bullying movement: In Seattle last month, a prominent speaker tells 2,800 high school journalists that the Bible is full of various brands of “bs,” prompting some in the audience to leave. Leaking venom, the anti-bullying advocate heckles them as they depart, calling their reaction “pansy-assed.” He later apologizes for this remark in a blog post: “It was insulting, it was name-calling and it was wrong,” he writes. He might also have mentioned, but did not, that calling someone a “pansy-ass” as he flees an uncomfortable situation is a textbook case of bullying.
....Mr. Savage was making a perfectly legitimate and age-appropriate point to those high school students: That Christians who resist anti-bullying efforts because the Bible forbids homosexuality could choose to ignore those parts of the Bible, just as they ignore the parts about slavery. Only he wrapped that point not just in foul language but in store-brand Bible-bashing: “The Bible is a rabidly pro-slavery document,” he crowed. “Slave-owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War.”
On the positive, this will turn into the semiweekly lets bash Christians thread. WE haven't had one in at least 37 hours so its time.
mattyrm wrote:We can't because Religious establishment a and people enjoy protected status and are treated with too much respect.
Their beliefs are as substantiated as belief in UFO s. But point it out and it doesn't bode well.
So suck it up and deal with it gays, pregnant rape victims and circumcised girls. Life's rarely fair unfortunately.
On one hand, I find myself agreeing with you (as horrifying as that is for me to find myself saying).
On the other hand, the "life sucks" status quo doesn't necessarily mean we can't (or shouldn't) try to make the world a better place.
I got bullied (not gay, just a nerd) when I was a youngin. When I mentioned it to my parents, I found out that they would rather I get in trouble dealing with it rather than have to live with that. I was told that no one would fight my battles, and trying to get teachers or them to deal with it for me would only make matters worse in the long run. A couple fights later, a couple detentions later, and a couple ass kickings later, I found out that I'm no fighter.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
So get a dumbell and bash their heads in. Humanity is a primal species that only respects strength.
I have sympathy for the victims of bullying but there is a way out - become a hard bastard.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
So get a dumbell and bash their heads in. Humanity is a primal species that only respects strength.
I have sympathy for the victims of bullying but there is a way out - become a hard bastard.
Yup. Doesn't take a lot of skill to give someone not expecting it a face full of locker.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
So get a dumbell and bash their heads in. Humanity is a primal species that only respects strength.
I have sympathy for the victims of bullying but there is a way out - become a hard bastard.
Yup. Doesn't take a lot of skill to give someone not expecting it a face full of locker.
It also doesn't take much for the guy who you gave a face full of locker to beat the gak out of you and torture you online with his friends.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
Hey! Rule one, buddy!
Don't make me sick the Mods on you!
Its ok. The Mannster and I have a special relationship and reserve the right to call each other flaming poopy heads of poopy poop, while at the same time knowing that if he comes to town he'll be forced to do my new found fun run of a swig of the Wife's private label wine (Wiener dog wine: red with a little bite) followed by stopping at Wtare to Wine before a movie where we sample a flight of wines, followed by the Flix Brewhouse where we will sit in leather recliners, watch a movie, eat dinner and drink...beer (ok more wine for me). The next morning I'll drag him out of bed to go blow up milk jugs with a few thousand rounds. Tbone will make him throw a ball a few hundred times (but only a few feet as he can't see it more than that).
Manny's He's my little Yankee Buddy.
To the topic. The prospect of bullies is a problem. There's what I would counsel and then there's what I'd do. One is legal and the other involves plyers and a hammer.
And then what? IT was mostly verbal, i get suspended for instigating a fight?
In my school with zero tolerance, it wouldnt have mattered if i was bullied first, all tthat would matter is if i started the fight.
As someone who agrees with Dan Savage as far as not bullying gay people, I do think that his bomb throwing is counter-productive. This is probably what Frazzled was referring to:
That's probably not the way to speak at a high school in the first place, and then basically saying "U mad bro?" when the people that you've intentionally baited walk out isn't going to improve your situation.
hotsauceman1 wrote:And then what? IT was mostly verbal, i get suspended for instigating a fight? In my school with zero tolerance, it wouldnt have mattered if i was bullied first, all tthat would matter is if i started the fight.
1. Employ authorities. or 2. Sue the bastards or 3. I plead the Fifth.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Monster Rain wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage.
As someone who agrees with Dan Savage as far as not bullying gay people, I do think that his bomb throwing is counter-productive. This is probably what Frazzled was referring to:
That's probably not the way to speak at a high school in the first place, and then basically saying "U mad bro?" when the people that you've intentionally baited walk out isn't going to improve your situation.
Exactly. I didn't know this guy from cheese before. Now he's just to me. I'm against bullying of anyone except tree hugging hippies and people who like cats as a matter of policy, but this doesn't help whatever cause he's pushing. Turns out he's just a dick.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
I'm evil now. Excellent. I must say though I must be getting slow, its taken until Thursday to be called Evil. I'm getting slow.
Sorry but if you're at being paid to speak at a public high school convention on bulying to high school kids across the nation, then slam Christianity, your a gak head. Anyone who thinks otherwise can push off.
John Lehmann/National Post
Dan Savage, a leader of the anti-bullying movement, keeps getting caught belittling others.
.Comments Email Twitter inShare.1.A scene from the anti-bullying movement: In Seattle last month, a prominent speaker tells 2,800 high school journalists that the Bible is full of various brands of “bs,” prompting some in the audience to leave. Leaking venom, the anti-bullying advocate heckles them as they depart, calling their reaction “pansy-assed.” He later apologizes for this remark in a blog post: “It was insulting, it was name-calling and it was wrong,” he writes. He might also have mentioned, but did not, that calling someone a “pansy-ass” as he flees an uncomfortable situation is a textbook case of bullying.
....Mr. Savage was making a perfectly legitimate and age-appropriate point to those high school students: That Christians who resist anti-bullying efforts because the Bible forbids homosexuality could choose to ignore those parts of the Bible, just as they ignore the parts about slavery. Only he wrapped that point not just in foul language but in store-brand Bible-bashing: “The Bible is a rabidly pro-slavery document,” he crowed. “Slave-owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War.”
On the positive, this will turn into the semiweekly lets bash Christians thread. WE haven't had one in at least 37 hours so its time.
Its not about bashing christians though, its about honestly looking at the bible and recognizing only select parts of it are followed today. If you ask anyone who thinks gay people are abominations and unnatural where they get that idea from, they always cite the bible. Even the people who've posted on dakka have said the same thing. so in an effort to end bullying against gays, asking christians to stop preaching that part of the bible seems reasonable doesn't it? questioning the bible is not bashing christians. I never even used the word christian in my OP.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
I'm evil now. Excellent. I must say though I must be getting slow, its taken until Thursday to be called Evil. I'm getting slow.
Sorry but if you're at being paid to speak at a public high school convention on bulying to high school kids across the nation, then slam Christianity, your a gak head. Anyone who thinks otherwise can push off.
John Lehmann/National Post Dan Savage, a leader of the anti-bullying movement, keeps getting caught belittling others.
.Comments Email Twitter inShare.1.A scene from the anti-bullying movement: In Seattle last month, a prominent speaker tells 2,800 high school journalists that the Bible is full of various brands of “bs,” prompting some in the audience to leave. Leaking venom, the anti-bullying advocate heckles them as they depart, calling their reaction “pansy-assed.” He later apologizes for this remark in a blog post: “It was insulting, it was name-calling and it was wrong,” he writes. He might also have mentioned, but did not, that calling someone a “pansy-ass” as he flees an uncomfortable situation is a textbook case of bullying.
....Mr. Savage was making a perfectly legitimate and age-appropriate point to those high school students: That Christians who resist anti-bullying efforts because the Bible forbids homosexuality could choose to ignore those parts of the Bible, just as they ignore the parts about slavery. Only he wrapped that point not just in foul language but in store-brand Bible-bashing: “The Bible is a rabidly pro-slavery document,” he crowed. “Slave-owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War.”
On the positive, this will turn into the semiweekly lets bash Christians thread. WE haven't had one in at least 37 hours so its time.
Its not about bashing christians though, its about honestly looking at the bible and recognizing only select parts of it are followed today. If you ask anyone who thinks gay people are abominations and unnatural where they get that idea from, they always cite the bible. Even the people who've posted on dakka have said the same thing. so in an effort to end bullying against gays, asking christians to stop preaching that part of the bible seems reasonable doesn't it? questioning the bible is not bashing christians. I never even used the word christian in my OP.
News flash WHAT HE SAID IS BASHING CHRISTIANS. He didn't say what you said. he attacked Christians, then attacked them for walking out, then went meh as an apology. So pardon me if I say feth him right back. Had he said as I pointed out: " Mr. Savage was making a perfectly legitimate and age-appropriate point to those high school students: That Christians who resist anti-bullying efforts because the Bible forbids homosexuality could choose to ignore those parts of the Bible, just as they ignore the parts about slavery." I would have been just fine. Also, actually talking about bullying and ways to deal with it would have actually been related to the subject of bullying.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
I'm evil now. Excellent. I must say though I must be getting slow, its taken until Thursday to be called Evil. I'm getting slow.
Sorry but if you're at being paid to speak at a public high school convention on bulying to high school kids across the nation, then slam Christianity, your a gak head. Anyone who thinks otherwise can push off.
John Lehmann/National Post
Dan Savage, a leader of the anti-bullying movement, keeps getting caught belittling others.
.Comments Email Twitter inShare.1.A scene from the anti-bullying movement: In Seattle last month, a prominent speaker tells 2,800 high school journalists that the Bible is full of various brands of “bs,” prompting some in the audience to leave. Leaking venom, the anti-bullying advocate heckles them as they depart, calling their reaction “pansy-assed.” He later apologizes for this remark in a blog post: “It was insulting, it was name-calling and it was wrong,” he writes. He might also have mentioned, but did not, that calling someone a “pansy-ass” as he flees an uncomfortable situation is a textbook case of bullying.
....Mr. Savage was making a perfectly legitimate and age-appropriate point to those high school students: That Christians who resist anti-bullying efforts because the Bible forbids homosexuality could choose to ignore those parts of the Bible, just as they ignore the parts about slavery. Only he wrapped that point not just in foul language but in store-brand Bible-bashing: “The Bible is a rabidly pro-slavery document,” he crowed. “Slave-owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War.”
On the positive, this will turn into the semiweekly lets bash Christians thread. WE haven't had one in at least 37 hours so its time.
Its not about bashing christians though, its about honestly looking at the bible and recognizing only select parts of it are followed today. If you ask anyone who thinks gay people are abominations and unnatural where they get that idea from, they always cite the bible. Even the people who've posted on dakka have said the same thing. so in an effort to end bullying against gays, asking christians to stop preaching that part of the bible seems reasonable doesn't it? questioning the bible is not bashing christians. I never even used the word christian in my OP.
News flash WHAT HE SAID IS BASHING CHRISTIANS.
Agreeing with Frazzled on this one.
You can't be a moral crusader against bullying while bullying others.
hotsauceman1 wrote:And then what? IT was mostly verbal, i get suspended for instigating a fight? In my school with zero tolerance, it wouldnt have mattered if i was bullied first, all tthat would matter is if i started the fight.
1. Employ authorities. or 2. Sue the bastards or 3. I plead the Fifth.
Looking back, there where dozens of thing i could have done. But i wouldnt have told my past self that. for two reasons 1: I hate myself 2: I would tell him it will get better and in the end high school never matters.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
I'm evil now. Excellent. I must say though I must be getting slow, its taken until Thursday to be called Evil. I'm getting slow.
Sorry but if you're at being paid to speak at a public high school convention on bulying to high school kids across the nation, then slam Christianity, your a gak head. Anyone who thinks otherwise can push off.
John Lehmann/National Post
Dan Savage, a leader of the anti-bullying movement, keeps getting caught belittling others.
.Comments Email Twitter inShare.1.A scene from the anti-bullying movement: In Seattle last month, a prominent speaker tells 2,800 high school journalists that the Bible is full of various brands of “bs,” prompting some in the audience to leave. Leaking venom, the anti-bullying advocate heckles them as they depart, calling their reaction “pansy-assed.” He later apologizes for this remark in a blog post: “It was insulting, it was name-calling and it was wrong,” he writes. He might also have mentioned, but did not, that calling someone a “pansy-ass” as he flees an uncomfortable situation is a textbook case of bullying.
....Mr. Savage was making a perfectly legitimate and age-appropriate point to those high school students: That Christians who resist anti-bullying efforts because the Bible forbids homosexuality could choose to ignore those parts of the Bible, just as they ignore the parts about slavery. Only he wrapped that point not just in foul language but in store-brand Bible-bashing: “The Bible is a rabidly pro-slavery document,” he crowed. “Slave-owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War.”
On the positive, this will turn into the semiweekly lets bash Christians thread. WE haven't had one in at least 37 hours so its time.
Its not about bashing christians though, its about honestly looking at the bible and recognizing only select parts of it are followed today. If you ask anyone who thinks gay people are abominations and unnatural where they get that idea from, they always cite the bible. Even the people who've posted on dakka have said the same thing. so in an effort to end bullying against gays, asking christians to stop preaching that part of the bible seems reasonable doesn't it? questioning the bible is not bashing christians. I never even used the word christian in my OP.
News flash WHAT HE SAID IS BASHING CHRISTIANS. He didn't say what you said. he attacked Christians, then attacked them for walking out, then went meh as an apology. So pardon me if I say feth him right back.
Had he said as I pointed out: " Mr. Savage was making a perfectly legitimate and age-appropriate point to those high school students: That Christians who resist anti-bullying efforts because the Bible forbids homosexuality could choose to ignore those parts of the Bible, just as they ignore the parts about slavery." I would have been just fine. Also, actually talking about bullying and ways to deal with it would have actually been related to the subject of bullying.
when I use christian, i'm not saying all christians, i'm using christian in the sense of those who think they should have some say over the lives of people who are not even in their church. the ones who think they can dictate the morals of their church to people not of their church. I know no two christians think alike or can even agree on everything in the bible.
but savage was not bashing christians, the kids where there for a staged protest, they started walking out once he said bible. he was baited by trolls and handled it badly. but that also highlights the biggest problem with this issue, on the christian side it seems no one wants to have an honest conversation about the bible, they either walk out and plug their ears, or find some other thing to nit pick over and ignore the original topic. you're only focusing on what savage said at the end of his speech, yet have not said anything about the pastor who tells parents to beat their kids. so you have a pastor advocating child abuse, and how do you think those kids would act in school? they'd think its ok to go and beat people because they act gay. that's why the bible is the starting point, and christians need to make the first move to end this kind of bullying.
the point savage was trying to make is take out your black highlighter and highlight all the passages you think talk about homosexuality. Just add those to the list of passages you don't follow anyways.
If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
The only appropriate response I have for you which follows forum rules is "lol".
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
I like how we say SUCK IT UP to the people who need help. Because they are the weakest who need help.
Everyone should feel safe going to school.
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
well I spent to much time in cali, and they like letting lawyers talk for them, so for people being bullied, I say sue the parents of the kids doing the bullying.
Being verbally abused by stupid kids at school has never been anything notable or worth getting worked up about. If it really feths you up, then you need to toughen up.
Words are meaningless.
Words are meaningless? Ha.
You obviously have never been the target of verbal abuse by EVERYONE in your class that you cant get out off because of school rules and that it "Isnt a big deal" you onbiously have never faked being sick for a weak so you would have to fo to class to avoid bullie.
In the real world they are meaningless. But to kids they are everything.
Here's a great rule: If you take what you say and substitute out one noun for another and would then not want to say it in front of your grandmother, its bashing.
And here's the special problem.
1. It was on a seminar about bullys
2. It was public school kids across the nation, not some private event of fellow talking heads.
A. Instead of discussing bullying he launches into a tirade about Christianity and the Bible in front of high school kids.
B. When public high school students started walk out he called them "pansy-assed."
To steal a quote from another blogger : Using profanity to deride the bible – and then mocking the Christian students after they left the room — is obviously a form of bullying and name-calling."
Amaya, kids these days live in a world where bullying cannot stop. Cell phones, texting, Facebook and E-Mail are now commonplace bullying places for teens and adolescents. By putting the blame on the victim for not toughening up, you're bullying him as well.
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
Childish nonsense. I believed like that until I went to California.
What if the bully has six of his friends? What if the bully is carrying a 9mm and has no problem blowing your brains out? What if they all have guns and have no problem blowing your brains out for the color of your shirt much less you personally?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
well I spent to much time in cali, and they like letting lawyers talk for them, so for people being bullied, I say sue the parents of the kids doing the bullying.
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
Childish nonsense. I believed like that until I went to California.
What if the bully has six of his friends? What if the bully is carrying a 9mm and has no problem blowing your brains out? What if they all have guns and have no problem blowing your brains out for the color of your shirt much less you personally? .
There you go.
That was my Mums biggest fear if i retaliated in bullying. Like i said, lotsa sport star hopped up on roids( its actually common in cali)
School bullyism is no-kay anymore.
OK my mon is 'educational supervisor' and she strongly speak against bullyism. an Indianapolitan teacher .. who also attended a conference as a lecturer. is working on her (a teacher is a woman yes!) crusade against bullyism
1. It leads to gangsterism once those kids grown ups. for a kid(s) (usually boys) who is (are) in dominance position, one (they) form(s) a gang of school kids and make other schoolmate lives harder. You can say that once those kids went out of school, they are usually parted. but gang experience goes with them
2. A victim (usually) losts his/her willingness to study. all he/she is worrying about is how to get around a gang of bullyists, unless he/she is bold enough to witstand series of villanity bullyists keep throwing at him/her. he/she would either end up having a relatively bad finalscore at the end of a year. or would have to leave a school hoping to finda better one. or will accept violence as a means to survive. School gunfights as we known today might be an act of revenge carrying out against any bullyist. (sadly the casaulties always an innocent. bullyists would likely flee and cherishs!)
Ok since i'm a practitioner of a dharmic religion. bible discussion here is simply out of place for me.
Yeah, I have been both verbally bullied and people have actually tried to physically bully me. My father was in the US Army so we moved pretty much every 2-3 years. I went to 8 different schools growing up.
Now, I wasn't bullied at all of them and I only got into fights at one of them, but the fact is unless you're some kind of manchild ogre that scares adults when you're 12 or a athletic freak of nature that everyone loves, you are going to be at a minimum verbally insulted multiple times a year by someone. I don't think there is a name I haven't been called, but I don't go around sad because some little kid called me a homosexual back in 6th grade.
Amaya wrote:Yeah, I have been both verbally bullied and people have actually tried to physically bully me. My father was in the US Army so we moved pretty much every 2-3 years. I went to 8 different schools growing up.
Now, I wasn't bullied at all of them and I only got into fights at one of them, but the fact is unless you're some kind of manchild ogre that scares adults when you're 12 or a athletic freak of nature that everyone loves, you are going to be at a minimum verbally insulted multiple times a year by someone. I don't think there is a name I haven't been called, but I don't go around sad because some little kid called me a homosexual back in 6th grade.
You weren't called homosexual all day, had people text you about it, post it all over your FB wall, leave notes on your locker/home door, get beat up for it, and other things.
Bullying is a form of Terrorism. That's not bullying what you described. That's called one off insults.
Chowderhead wrote:Amaya, kids these days live in a world where bullying cannot stop. Cell phones, texting, Facebook and E-Mail are now commonplace bullying places for teens and adolescents. By putting the blame on the victim for not toughening up, you're bullying him as well.
Put the blame on the attacker, not the victim.
How the hell do you get bullied on Facebook? There is a block feature in addition to the fact that no one is making you use it.
How do you get bullied with texting? I didn't have a cell phone in high school and I survived it somehow...not to mention why the hell does anyone outside of your friends even have your number.
Same is true for e-mail, how do the bullies even get it to begin with? Why is it so hard to make a new email address?
Frazzled, don't compare gang related crime to the minor verbal abuse that goes on in suburbia. The two issues are not even remotely related.
Amaya wrote:Yeah, I have been both verbally bullied and people have actually tried to physically bully me. My father was in the US Army so we moved pretty much every 2-3 years. I went to 8 different schools growing up.
Now, I wasn't bullied at all of them and I only got into fights at one of them, but the fact is unless you're some kind of manchild ogre that scares adults when you're 12 or a athletic freak of nature that everyone loves, you are going to be at a minimum verbally insulted multiple times a year by someone. I don't think there is a name I haven't been called, but I don't go around sad because some little kid called me a homosexual back in 6th grade.
You weren't called homosexual all day, had people text you about it, post it all over your FB wall, leave notes on your locker/home door, get beat up for it, and other things.
Bullying is a form of Terrorism. That's not bullying what you described. That's called one off insults.
So being called gay nearly every day for all of 6th grade by the same group of people is not bullying? Having people stand outside your window and yell obscenities at you is not bullying?
Amaya wrote:Yeah, I have been both verbally bullied and people have actually tried to physically bully me. My father was in the US Army so we moved pretty much every 2-3 years. I went to 8 different schools growing up.
Now, I wasn't bullied at all of them and I only got into fights at one of them, but the fact is unless you're some kind of manchild ogre that scares adults when you're 12 or a athletic freak of nature that everyone loves, you are going to be at a minimum verbally insulted multiple times a year by someone. I don't think there is a name I haven't been called, but I don't go around sad because some little kid called me a homosexual back in 6th grade.
You weren't called homosexual all day, had people text you about it, post it all over your FB wall, leave notes on your locker/home door, get beat up for it, and other things.
Bullying is a form of Terrorism. That's not bullying what you described. That's called one off insults.
So being called gay nearly every day for all of 6th grade by the same group of people is not bullying? Having people stand outside your window and yell obscenities at you is not bullying?
Amaya wrote:Yeah, I have been both verbally bullied and people have actually tried to physically bully me. My father was in the US Army so we moved pretty much every 2-3 years. I went to 8 different schools growing up.
Now, I wasn't bullied at all of them and I only got into fights at one of them, but the fact is unless you're some kind of manchild ogre that scares adults when you're 12 or a athletic freak of nature that everyone loves, you are going to be at a minimum verbally insulted multiple times a year by someone. I don't think there is a name I haven't been called, but I don't go around sad because some little kid called me a homosexual back in 6th grade.
You weren't called homosexual all day, had people text you about it, post it all over your FB wall, leave notes on your locker/home door, get beat up for it, and other things.
Bullying is a form of Terrorism. That's not bullying what you described. That's called one off insults.
Well in my defense, "fire" was the new black when I was a youngin, much less the personal computer, the internet, or Facebook.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amaya wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Amaya, kids these days live in a world where bullying cannot stop. Cell phones, texting, Facebook and E-Mail are now commonplace bullying places for teens and adolescents. By putting the blame on the victim for not toughening up, you're bullying him as well.
Put the blame on the attacker, not the victim.
How the hell do you get bullied on Facebook? There is a block feature in addition to the fact that no one is making you use it.
How do you get bullied with texting? I didn't have a cell phone in high school and I survived it somehow...not to mention why the hell does anyone outside of your friends even have your number.
Same is true for e-mail, how do the bullies even get it to begin with? Why is it so hard to make a new email address?
Frazzled, don't compare gang related crime to the minor verbal abuse that goes on in suburbia. The two issues are not even remotely related.
You said bullying. DON"T YOU screw up and think you're concept of bullying is the only concept.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
Dude, you have a pony for an icon. You deserve to be bullied, maybe you'll learn something.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
I like how we say SUCK IT UP to the people who need help. Because they are the weakest who need help.
Everyone should feel safe going to school.
Because everyone should feel safe everywhere? That's not how the world works kid. Toughen up.
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
Childish nonsense. I believed like that until I went to California.
What if the bully has six of his friends? What if the bully is carrying a 9mm and has no problem blowing your brains out? What if they all have guns and have no problem blowing your brains out for the color of your shirt much less you personally?
Indeed, considering how insightful some of Amayas posts are, I find that one to be staggeringly childish and narrow minded. Maybe because he is a powerlifter he thinks it is the ultimate show on manliness? Speaking from experience, it definitely wasn't the biggest guy was the toughest in high school. The lads were always fighting in my school, and there was a "rank table" (Childish I know, but thats what 15 year olds do)
Some fethers are just hard bastards, and some fethers are just good at fighting. Lifting weights might help some, but its absolutely no guarantee of victory.
And I know im a special case because im rock as feth, but ive filled in loads of blokes much bigger than me.
Seriously though, hasn't everyone? Is the history of fist fights involving anyone on this forum boiled down to the guy who is two inches taller and 20 lbs heavier always winning!? Its total nonsense.
Also, telling a kid to go kick feth out of someone isn't really sound advice. If said kid is quiet and the bully is in a gang and is extremely popular, then even if you win your going to lose eventually.
Basically, its kids stuff, and it ends when you grow up. Just try not to let it upset you, and get on with your life. And if it is genuinely serious, then report it as such and make the point specifically to your parents and teachers than you feel it is affecting your health. In this day and age, full scale bullying isn't and shouldn't be tolerated.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Being one of the rough kids I never was bullied (I was 3rd on the rank table as well till I got kicked to gak by 4th! ) but I can imagine how bad it must feel. I was a rough and tumble kid but I felt genuinely sorry for some of the kids that were endlessly harried.
Details are not really necessary. I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me at first, but after a while I stopped caring and I actually started to find it funny after one of those kids tried to jump me (11 year old middle class white kids fighting is hilarious).
Looking back at it, a lot of the stuff was completely inane and somewhat funny. I got made fun of for being tall, being white, being blonde, having 'pretty eyes', being gay, and funniest of all is back in 6th grade most people actually considered it insulting to accuse someone of masturbating or having a large member.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
Dude, you have a pony for an icon. You deserve to be bullied, maybe you'll learn something.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
I like how we say SUCK IT UP to the people who need help. Because they are the weakest who need help.
Everyone should feel safe going to school.
Because everyone should feel safe everywhere? That's not how the world works kid. Toughen up.
People Should feel safe everywhere, I know know im getting into idealism but School shouldnt be a place where people are afriad to go.
Oh, and the first comment? Why should my personal taste for enjoyment make me a subject for bullying? You are a wargamer, me and you are in the same boat buddy,
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
Childish nonsense. I believed like that until I went to California.
What if the bully has six of his friends? What if the bully is carrying a 9mm and has no problem blowing your brains out? What if they all have guns and have no problem blowing your brains out for the color of your shirt much less you personally?
Indeed, considering how insightful some of Amayas posts are, I find that one to be staggeringly childish and narrow minded. Maybe because he is a powerlifter he thinks it is the ultimate show on manliness? Speaking from experience, it definitely wasn't the biggest guy was the toughest in high school. The lads were always fighting in my school, and there was a "rank table" (Childish I know, but thats what 15 year olds do)
Some fethers are just hard bastards, and some fethers are just good at fighting. Lifting weights might help some, but its absolutely no guarantee of victory.
And I know im a special case because im rock as feth, but ive filled in loads of blokes much bigger than me.
Seriously though, hasn't everyone? Is the history of fist fights involving anyone on this forum boiled down to the guy who is two inches taller and 20 lbs heavier always winning!? Its total nonsense.
Also, telling a kid to go kick feth out of someone isn't really sound advice. If said kid is quiet and the bully is in a gang and is extremely popular, then even if you win your going to lose eventually.
Basically, its kids stuff, and it ends when you grow up. Just try not to let it upset you, and get on with your life. And if it is genuinely serious, then report it as such and make the point specifically to your parents and teachers than you feel it is affecting your health. In this day and age, full scale bullying isn't and shouldn't be tolerated.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Being one of the rough kids I never was bullied (I was 3rd on the rank table as well till I got kicked to gak by 4th! ) but I can imagine how bad it must feel. I was a rough and tumble kid but I felt genuinely sorry for some of the kids that were endlessly harried.
Most bullies, outside of very violent communities, are actually physically weak and rely solely on useless size and aggressiveness to intimidate people. Unless you're being bullied by some 6'4 monstrosity then learning to fight and building some muscle will help.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
Dude, you have a pony for an icon. You deserve to be bullied, maybe you'll learn something.
What is I don't even this comment makes my brain hurt from all the what the feth running around.
mattyrm wrote:
Some fethers are just hard bastards, and some fethers are just good at fighting. Lifting weights might help some, but its absolutely no guarantee of victory.
...
Basically, its kids stuff, and it ends when you grow up. Just try not to let it upset you, and get on with your life. And if it is genuinely serious, then report it as such and make the point specifically to your parents and teachers than you feel it is affecting your health. In this day and age, full scale bullying isn't and shouldn't be tolerated.
Unfortunately, it's not all just kid stuff, and it doesn't end when you grow up, it ends when you stand up for yourself. You don't have to go out to mess someone up, but you do have to stand up for yourself.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Being one of the rough kids I never was bullied (I was 3rd on the rank table as well till I got kicked to gak by 4th! ) but I can imagine how bad it must feel. I was a rough and tumble kid but I felt genuinely sorry for some of the kids that were endlessly harried.
I wasn't a big hard kid, and I was bullied, until the day I pushed back. And then it stopped. And that's how it always stops. Except for those who are too weak to push back. Being bullied happens to most people, and it's part of learning how to be yourself. It makes you stronger in the long run. Maybe you get a bloody lip or a few bruises - but it'll be the last time.
One of my favourite stories along this subject actually comes form the Bulls championship team. Quoting from the story as told on mentalfloss:
Although Jordan and Kerr were teammates on the second great Bulls championship run from 1996 to 1998, they didn’t always get along. Kerr and Jordan didn’t agree on the best solution to the labor woes that plagued the NBA at the time, and Kerr felt the other Bulls were too deferential to Jordan. It didn’t help that the two guards often defended each other in practice. At one particularly frisky scrimmage in 1995 the two players began pushing off of each other, and eventually Kerr decided he’d had enough and came up swinging. As Kerr later put it, “I knew I had two choices. Either let it go and be obedient to Michael forever, or fight and probably get my ass kicked. I picked a real winner for my adult fighting debut.”
Jordan gave Kerr a black eye in the dustup, but His Airness was quick to reconcile with the sharpshooter. By the time Kerr got home, Jordan had left an apologetic answering machine message, and the two got along swimmingly after that.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
Dude, you have a pony for an icon. You deserve to be bullied, maybe you'll learn something.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
I like how we say SUCK IT UP to the people who need help. Because they are the weakest who need help.
Everyone should feel safe going to school.
Because everyone should feel safe everywhere? That's not how the world works kid. Toughen up.
People Should feel safe everywhere, I know know im getting into idealism but School shouldnt be a place where people are afriad to go.
People will never feel safe everywhere. I can sympathize with being afraid of physical threats, but being afraid to go to school over verbal insults is completely different.
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
Childish nonsense. I believed like that until I went to California.
What if the bully has six of his friends? What if the bully is carrying a 9mm and has no problem blowing your brains out? What if they all have guns and have no problem blowing your brains out for the color of your shirt much less you personally?
Indeed, considering how insightful some of Amayas posts are, I find that one to be staggeringly childish and narrow minded. Maybe because he is a powerlifter he thinks it is the ultimate show on manliness? Speaking from experience, it definitely wasn't the biggest guy was the toughest in high school. The lads were always fighting in my school, and there was a "rank table" (Childish I know, but thats what 15 year olds do)
Some fethers are just hard bastards, and some fethers are just good at fighting. Lifting weights might help some, but its absolutely no guarantee of victory.
And I know im a special case because im rock as feth, but ive filled in loads of blokes much bigger than me.
Seriously though, hasn't everyone? Is the history of fist fights involving anyone on this forum boiled down to the guy who is two inches taller and 20 lbs heavier always winning!? Its total nonsense.
Also, telling a kid to go kick feth out of someone isn't really sound advice. If said kid is quiet and the bully is in a gang and is extremely popular, then even if you win your going to lose eventually.
Basically, its kids stuff, and it ends when you grow up. Just try not to let it upset you, and get on with your life. And if it is genuinely serious, then report it as such and make the point specifically to your parents and teachers than you feel it is affecting your health. In this day and age, full scale bullying isn't and shouldn't be tolerated.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Being one of the rough kids I never was bullied (I was 3rd on the rank table as well till I got kicked to gak by 4th! ) but I can imagine how bad it must feel. I was a rough and tumble kid but I felt genuinely sorry for some of the kids that were endlessly harried.
Most bullies, outside of very violent communities, are actually physically weak and rely solely on useless size and aggressiveness to intimidate people. Unless you're being bullied by some 6'4 monstrosity then learning to fight and building some muscle will help.
Or, you know, there could be multiple bullies.
I don't care how tough you are. When 5-6 kids come after you when you're their age, you fething run.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amaya wrote:But being afraid to go to school over verbal insults is completely different.
Chowderhead wrote:I don't care how tough you are. When 5-6 kids come after you when you're their age, you fething run.
No, you stand your ground, you fight back. And maybe you get a little hurt. But they're preying on your fear, and you running just continues the problem. You show them you're not afraid to get hurt, and even give a little back, and they'll find someone else to mess with.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
Dude, you have a pony for an icon. You deserve to be bullied, maybe you'll learn something.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Amaya wrote:If you're being verbally bullied at school, I'm sorry, suck it the feth up.
If you're being physically bullied, lift some weights, learn how to throw a punch, and then after a few months punch the bully's face in.
I like how we say SUCK IT UP to the people who need help. Because they are the weakest who need help.
Everyone should feel safe going to school.
Because everyone should feel safe everywhere? That's not how the world works kid. Toughen up.
People Should feel safe everywhere, I know know im getting into idealism but School shouldnt be a place where people are afriad to go.
People will never feel safe everywhere. I can sympathize with being afraid of physical threats, but being afraid to go to school over verbal insults is completely different.
They can feel just the same when you are a kid. Now verbal insults are nothing, but whne you are young and just want to fit in? they are everything.
I bet if you lok back you might find you felt the same way,
Chowderhead wrote:I don't care how tough you are. When 5-6 kids come after you when you're their age, you fething run.
No, you stand your ground, you fight back. And maybe you get your gak kicked in.
Fixed it for you.
But they're preying on your fear, and you running just continues the problem. You show them you're not afraid to get hurt, and even give a little back, and they'll find someone else to mess with.
For a scared kid, no-one saying 'Buck Up!" will ever help them.
Frazzled wrote:He was bashing Christians. Accept it.
Here's a great rule: If you take what you say and substitute out one noun for another and would then not want to say it in front of your grandmother, its bashing.
And here's the special problem.
1. It was on a seminar about bullys
2. It was public school kids across the nation, not some private event of fellow talking heads.
A. Instead of discussing bullying he launches into a tirade about Christianity and the Bible in front of high school kids.
B. When public high school students started walk out he called them "pansy-assed."
To steal a quote from another blogger : Using profanity to deride the bible – and then mocking the Christian students after they left the room — is obviously a form of bullying and name-calling."
1. http://www.studentpress.org/nspa/ it was a seminar on anti gay bullying. "Mr. Dan Savage had been invited to share with students the power of social media in today's world as well as speak about the problem of bullying of gay youth, an issue all too familiar in many American schools"
A: as the bible is the most quoted source for anti gay bullying, it is a valid and a major topic. Pointing out all the other parts of the bible that are ignored today and asking to ignore one more part is not bashing christians.
All the kids that walked out, went to this event just so they could walk out on dan savage. it didn't matter at all to them what he had to say, even if he was more polite than the Dalai Lama they still would have left. Savage lost his composure though, but that doesn't make his argument invalid. It just gives christians a reason to ignore him, instead of reflecting on what he actually said.
Chowderhead wrote:I don't care how tough you are. When 5-6 kids come after you when you're their age, you fething run.
No, you stand your ground, you fight back. And maybe you get a little hurt. But they're preying on your fear, and you running just continues the problem. You show them you're not afraid to get hurt, and even give a little back, and they'll find someone else to mess with.
or alternatively they put you in the hospital. It depends on the situation. If they have a rep for that, standing up without evening the issue is bad. If they don't have a rep for that, the Redbeard is right (edited its not Chowderhead's post but I'm still going to type ITS PRONOUNCED CHOWDAH!!!).
Frazzled wrote:He was bashing Christians. Accept it.
Here's a great rule: If you take what you say and substitute out one noun for another and would then not want to say it in front of your grandmother, its bashing.
And here's the special problem. 1. It was on a seminar about bullys 2. It was public school kids across the nation, not some private event of fellow talking heads.
A. Instead of discussing bullying he launches into a tirade about Christianity and the Bible in front of high school kids.
B. When public high school students started walk out he called them "pansy-assed."
To steal a quote from another blogger : Using profanity to deride the bible – and then mocking the Christian students after they left the room — is obviously a form of bullying and name-calling."
1. http://www.studentpress.org/nspa/ it was a seminar on anti gay bullying. "Mr. Dan Savage had been invited to share with students the power of social media in today's world as well as speak about the problem of bullying of gay youth, an issue all too familiar in many American schools"
Nowhere in there does it say "He also will tear apart the Bible."
A: as the bible is the most quoted source for anti gay bullying, it is a valid and a major topic. Pointing out all the other parts of the bible that are ignored today and asking to ignore one more part is not bashing christians.
It's also the fact that he ranted on this, as opposed to talking about it like a sane man.
All the kids that walked out, went to this event just so they could walk out on dan savage.
Sauce Please.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:
Redbeard wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:I don't care how tough you are. When 5-6 kids come after you when you're their age, you fething run.
No, you stand your ground, you fight back. And maybe you get a little hurt. But they're preying on your fear, and you running just continues the problem. You show them you're not afraid to get hurt, and even give a little back, and they'll find someone else to mess with.
or alternatively they put you in the hospital. It depends on the situation. If they have a rep for that, standing up without evening the issue is bad. If they don't have a rep for that, the Redbeard is right (edited its not Chowderhead's post but I'm still going to type ITS PRONOUNCED CHOWDAH!!!).
Just watched the Savage video. He is in the right. Im christian and i stop listening to the bible years ago.
Pastors are no longer about loving fellow man, its getting people riled up.
That and the church demands money of me, im running out of excuses not to give.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
So get a dumbell and bash their heads in. Humanity is a primal species that only respects strength.
I have sympathy for the victims of bullying but there is a way out - become a hard bastard.
Yup. Doesn't take a lot of skill to give someone not expecting it a face full of locker.
It also doesn't take much for the guy who you gave a face full of locker to beat the gak out of you and torture you online with his friends.
If you leave his face a bloody, messy pulp, he won't ever feth with you again.
Just saying.
hotsauceman1 wrote:Just watched the Savage video. He is in the right. Im christian and i stop listening to the bible years ago. Pastors are no longer about loving fellow man, its getting people riled up.
That and the church demands money of me, im running out of excuses not to give.
Bullying, Harassment
and Hazing
Bullying in schools. Harassment of
gay and lesbian students. Hazing
incidents that lead to violence, injury
and murder. Student journalists
cover a world where bullying,
harassment and hazing are part of
their experience. The extremely
violent incidents top the evening
news and appear on top of the
fold. The everyday incidents contribute
to lives of private misery.
This seminar will bring together
newsmakers and expert commentators
to report the extent
of these violations, their consequences
and what individuals and
organizations are doing about it.
The presentation will have natural
connections to the Friday afternoon
keynote speech by editor,
columnist and author Dan Savage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joey wrote: If you leave his face a bloody, messy pulp, he won't ever feth with you again.
Just saying.
I hate to say it but generally Joey is right (unless they're into that whole payback thing then its not going to be good).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amaya wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:Just watched the Savage video. He is in the right. Im christian and i stop listening to the bible years ago. Pastors are no longer about loving fellow man, its getting people riled up.
That and the church demands money of me, im running out of excuses not to give.
How are you Christian then?
Now I'm agreeing with Amaya. We're all doomed. Doomed I tells ya!
Bullying, Harassment
and Hazing
Bullying in schools. Harassment of
gay and lesbian students. Hazing
incidents that lead to violence, injury
and murder. Student journalists
cover a world where bullying,
harassment and hazing are part of
their experience. The extremely
violent incidents top the evening
news and appear on top of the
fold. The everyday incidents contribute
to lives of private misery.
This seminar will bring together
newsmakers and expert commentators
to report the extent
of these violations, their consequences
and what individuals and
organizations are doing about it.
The presentation will have natural
connections to the Friday afternoon
keynote speech by editor,
columnist and author Dan Savage.
we're both right here, the event covered many topics and their press release stated dan was there to address the Harassment of
gay and lesbian students.
mattyrm wrote:
Some fethers are just hard bastards, and some fethers are just good at fighting. Lifting weights might help some, but its absolutely no guarantee of victory.
Exactly, there's a big difference between being physically imposing, and being willing and able to use your physically imposing frame to inflict harm on another person.
Most people don't actually like hurting other people.
mattyrm wrote:
Some fethers are just hard bastards, and some fethers are just good at fighting. Lifting weights might help some, but its absolutely no guarantee of victory.
Exactly, there's a big difference between being physically imposing, and being willing and able to use your physically imposing frame to inflict harm on another person.
Most people don't actually like hurting other people.
Aye, this threads kinda dull though because I think the same thing has cropped up about 100 times.
Sadly, I bet that means lots of kids are getting bullied. Although, its a wargaming website, so maybe a disproportional amount of kids who post on here are dweebs?
Frazzled wrote:He was bashing Christians. Accept it.
Conversely it might do for Christians to accept that there are certain elements of the Bible, and the larger Christian community, that aren't especially desirable in contemporary society.
Frazzled wrote:He was bashing Christians. Accept it.
Conversely it might do for Christians to accept that there are certain elements of the Bible, and the larger Christian community, that aren't especially desirable in contemporary society.
hotsauceman1 wrote:As a deep victim of bullying, Schools just done care. They are to afraid of the parents of the bully rather then the parents of the victim.
And to people who say its just part of growing up? Why the hack should it be? Yes a good amount of hazing is ok. But if you are like me, bullied where they turned all your friends against you and nearly drove you to suicide, is to much. We need to punish billies and not just forget about it because they are a star on the wrestling team or football.
So get a dumbell and bash their heads in. Humanity is a primal species that only respects strength.
I have sympathy for the victims of bullying but there is a way out - become a hard bastard.
Yup. Doesn't take a lot of skill to give someone not expecting it a face full of locker.
It also doesn't take much for the guy who you gave a face full of locker to beat the gak out of you and torture you online with his friends.
I'm not playing internet tough guy today. At least, I'm not trying to, really; I'm kind of a candyass. I've gotten my ass seriously kicked before, on many occasion. I'm just saying that all my problems relevant to this conversation went away whenever I became a disproportionately harsh inconvenience to those who were fething with me.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, and the first comment? Why should my personal taste for enjoyment make me a subject for bullying? You are a wargamer, me and you are in the same boat buddy,
Not even close, "buddy". Wargaming, while geeky, is decidedly a male-oriented hobby (Have I just summoned Melissia?). Out of the hundreds of people who played in the 40k events at Adepticon, I think there were three women, total. I don't know about the Warmachine or Fantasy games, but the point is obvious. Among the people I game with are soldiers, firefighters, cops, construction workers and football players. I may get called out as a geek because I'm a wargamer, but these days, being a geek generally means you'll make a good living.
My Little Ponies, whatever you think of them, are aimed at a target demographic of pre-teen girls. Why should your personal taste make you a subject for bullying? Because you have chosen a taste that is decidedly feminine and girly. And while in your utopian dreamland were no one is judged for anything, in the real world where the rest of us live, you will be judged for this choice, and there will be consequences, and whining about those consequences is just as bad as making the choice. If you want to be thought of as a man, do manly things. If you want to be thought of as a pre-teen girl, do pre-teen girly things.
One of the reasons for bullying is that there are societal norms, and those who choose to exist outside those societal norms will stick out. At your age (I am assuming you're still in High School, from your other posts), many of your peers aren't going to have the same tools available that they would as adults. As adults, if you defy societal norms you risk not getting hired, not getting promoted, or being ostracized from community events. But the other teenagers at your school can't do that. They see you defying the societal norm, and their reaction is a very normal, very human one - they want to encourage you to return to society. The problem is, the only tool at their disposal, to convince you to do this, is bullying, either physical or verbal. We humans, at heart, are simple herd animals after all.
High School is where people first tend to learn about these societal norms. There's this pressure to fit in, that includes being bullied when you stick out. Is it "right"? Who cares. It's human, and we're not a perfect species. We do things that are wrong. You have choices. Whining about how this is unfair is not one of them - well, you can do it, but it won't help. And if you persist in not fitting in, you'll find that the bullying changes as you get older, from name calling and fights, to not getting a job and not getting promoted. Is that fair? Again, fairness doesn't enter into it, we live in the real world, not the ideal one.
Chowderhead wrote:What is I don't even this comment...
I'm fairly sure those words don't go in that order.
I've never had a bullying problem... whatsoever, so the concept is rather foreign to me... I don't see why the bullied kids don't just buy a Kabar and slit the bully's throat. That's what I'd do. Actually, no. Not a Kabar, probably a SOG or something.
It doesn't even have to get to that point though. I'm sure there are steps that can be taken to let that bully know you're srs. Bullies only have power over them because they feel like they can get away with it, or because they believe they're superior, or whatever. You can see this behavior in even the smallest organisms, and in other mammals, like wolves and wild cats. If the weaker organism can prove that he isn't as weak as they bully thinks he is, then the bully will leave him alone.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, and the first comment? Why should my personal taste for enjoyment make me a subject for bullying? You are a wargamer, me and you are in the same boat buddy,
I don't think proudly associating yourself with children's shows that are intended for little girls is really doing yourself any favors as far as minimizing the bullying. Your Lisa Frank stationary probably isn't helping matters much either.
Most of the people I knew in middle/high school were ambivalent toward my playing of M:TG, D&D, or any other nerd games I did back then. Hell, I brought a fething chess board with me to school and would play on the lunch table. Most of the time I got picked on because I didn't have many friends, because I liked to be alone. The Boy Scouts was actually also somehow a trigger as well. I still can't figure that out.
"Yeah, I go camping, setting fires, and shooting guns."
"Pfft, sissy!"
"?"
Admittedly, my school wasn't exactly home to the best and the brightest. :/
I can only imagine what would have happened if I was parading around colorful anthropomorphic animals as the bestest thing in my life.
Also, as an afterthought, perhaps it's not just your personal taste, but that perhaps it's taken to an extreme? You've obviously quite... proud... of it. Perhaps you're coming off a little too strongly and people are reacting inappropriately as a result?
There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Probably; I'm just so out of touch with those kids these days that I'm trying (admittedly badly) to relate it to my own experiences.
Like that mop hair thing you guys do, and the unbent bills on your baseball caps.
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Probably; I'm just so out of touch with those kids these days that I'm trying (admittedly badly) to relate it to my own experiences.
Like that mop hair thing you guys do, and the unbent bills on your baseball caps.
Hey, I bend my baseball cap bills and the only reason I have mop hair right now is because I'm growing it shoulder length!
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Probably; I'm just so out of touch with those kids these days that I'm trying (admittedly badly) to relate it to my own experiences.
Like that mop hair thing you guys do, and the unbent bills on your baseball caps.
Well, that's forgivable then. I've just never understood what the big deal with it is. I mean, if you're going to go through with it, at least grow it out to Robert Plant proportions.
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Regardless, it's still My Little Pony. It's a show about brightly pastel colored ponies.
Honestly the saddest part about the whole show is that males who watch it call themselves "bronies". That's pathetic and sad whichever way you want to slice it.
"Hey doods, I'm a bronie! See how cool I am? lol"
Newsflash, if you like this show and/or call yourself a brony, you need to grow up. Unless you're 12 or younger, and you're also a girl. Most males are becoming increasingly feminine which is disappointing. I would actually encourage that you get bullied if you like this show, because you deserve it. Seriously. Absolutely no trolling. If you like MLP, you deserve to be ostracized.
MrDwhitey wrote:I don't like the show, but I find your view utterly disgusting, if I am to be completely serious.
That's fine, I find my view to be not nearly as bad as a 22 year old male watching a show intended for prepubescent girls. I would prefer for them to be a functioning member of society, there's nothing wrong with that.
Political correctness has definitely gone too far.
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Regardless, it's still My Little Pony. It's a show about brightly pastel colored ponies.
Honestly the saddest part about the whole show is that males who watch it call themselves "bronies". That's pathetic and sad whichever way you want to slice it.
"Hey doods, I'm a bronie! See how cool I am? lol"
Newsflash, if you like this show and/or call yourself a brony, you need to grow up. Unless you're 12 or younger, and you're also a girl. Most males are becoming increasingly feminine which is disappointing. I would actually encourage that you get bullied if you like this show, because you deserve it. Seriously. Absolutely no trolling. If you like MLP, you deserve to be ostracized.
So what? get off it.
I was into models and trains when I was a kid, and riding yamahas. I don't get the MLP stuff either but frankly all you kids are slavering girly boys compared to my generation. We had to walk through the freezing snow and rain uphill everyday to school, and had to wrestle alligators, dig 16 tons of coal, and spar with Smokin Joe for PE daily once we got there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:I don't like the show, but I find your view utterly disgusting, if I am to be completely serious.
That's fine, I find my view to be not nearly as bad as a 22 year old male watching a show intended for prepubescent girls. I would prefer for them to be a functioning member of society, there's nothing wrong with that.
Political correctness has definitely gone too far.
I'd say suck it you have an avatar of a gay doll high school boy and you're riding someone else but thats inappropriate and Bert was awesome.
Why do I know you're in high school? You care.
MrDwhitey wrote:I don't like the show, but I find your view utterly disgusting, if I am to be completely serious.
That's fine, I find my view to be not nearly as bad as a 22 year old male watching a show intended for prepubescent girls. I would prefer for them to be a functioning member of society, there's nothing wrong with that.
Political correctness has definitely gone too far.
I like how you think that people watching a show which may or may not be solely designed for pre-12 girls, makes them a non-functioning member of society. That is completely absurd.
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Regardless, it's still My Little Pony. It's a show about brightly pastel colored ponies.
Honestly the saddest part about the whole show is that males who watch it call themselves "bronies". That's pathetic and sad whichever way you want to slice it.
"Hey doods, I'm a bronie! See how cool I am? lol"
Newsflash, if you like this show and/or call yourself a brony, you need to grow up. Unless you're 12 or younger, and you're also a girl. Most males are becoming increasingly feminine which is disappointing. I would actually encourage that you get bullied if you like this show, because you deserve it. Seriously. Absolutely no trolling. If you like MLP, you deserve to be ostracized.
So what? get off it. I was into models and trains when I was a kid, and riding yamahas. I don't get the MLP stuff either but frankly all you kids are slavering girly boys compared to my generation. We had to walk through the freezing snow and rain uphill everyday to school, and had to wrestle alligators, dig 16 tons of coal, and spar with Smokin Joe for PE daily once we got there.
Models and trains are definitely not girly/feminine, I don't see the correlation. My grandfather who fought in WWII still has models of trains and he's one of the coolest guys I know. Also I'm sure he would call you baby boomers just as bad, if not even worse in terms of being girly boys.
:Edit: Yeah, your jimmies have definitely been rustled. LOL, why so mad? Why not go back to your conspiracy theories on the fox news website?
MrDwhitey wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:I don't like the show, but I find your view utterly disgusting, if I am to be completely serious.
That's fine, I find my view to be not nearly as bad as a 22 year old male watching a show intended for prepubescent girls. I would prefer for them to be a functioning member of society, there's nothing wrong with that.
Political correctness has definitely gone too far.
I like how you think that people watching a show which may or may not be solely designed for pre-12 girls, makes them a non-functioning member of society. That is completely absurd.
No, it is based on marketing towards little girls. And based on the members who like MLP on this website, I'd say it's not a bad assumption.
Frazzled wrote:
So what? get off it.
I was into models and trains when I was a kid, and riding yamahas. I don't get the MLP stuff either but frankly all you kids are slavering girly boys compared to my generation. We had to walk through the freezing snow and rain uphill everyday to school, and had to wrestle alligators, dig 16 tons of coal, and spar with Smokin Joe for PE daily once we got there.
My desk job HAS made my hands embarrassingly soft in the recent years...
Amusing anecdote, I walked to school every day, and there was a large valley between the school and my house, so I actually had to walk uphill both, to school AND back.
I have been "Bullied" and I have dealt with it accordingly. People who cry out for Bully Awareness are most likely doing it for attention. I refuse to back down and let it happen. Acting like a Coward and waiting for the Schools to act is unrealistic. The Schools don't care. You have to act on your own. I do not tolerate any kind of abuse towards me, I don't not have to deal with. I will fight if I have to. People are too passive these days, they think with a magic wand, you can't just fix bullying by increasing awareness. It's not just a quick solution as everyone says it is. Kids need to stick up for themselves. People would say that I'm a victim of bullying. Face it, I'm not going to complain about it, I'm going to fight back. It happens, it's a part of life, I can't change, big deal. In the end, the kids who "bully" me are probably more insecure than me, they are posers which just mean nothing. This is coming from a person with BPD. Verbal bullying is nothing really, if kids in my class(Year 12/Australia/HSC) try to Verbally Harass me, I can snap and say insults that bad all you hear after that is a pin drop. Many kids get bullied for no reason, it's no deal big deal for me. It did matter a few years ago but Ijust don't care about them.
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Regardless, it's still My Little Pony. It's a show about brightly pastel colored ponies.
Honestly the saddest part about the whole show is that males who watch it call themselves "bronies". That's pathetic and sad whichever way you want to slice it.
"Hey doods, I'm a bronie! See how cool I am? lol"
Newsflash, if you like this show and/or call yourself a brony, you need to grow up. Unless you're 12 or younger, and you're also a girl. Most males are becoming increasingly feminine which is disappointing. I would actually encourage that you get bullied if you like this show, because you deserve it. Seriously. Absolutely no trolling. If you like MLP, you deserve to be ostracized.
So what? get off it.
I was into models and trains when I was a kid, and riding yamahas. I don't get the MLP stuff either but frankly all you kids are slavering girly boys compared to my generation. We had to walk through the freezing snow and rain uphill everyday to school, and had to wrestle alligators, dig 16 tons of coal, and spar with Smokin Joe for PE daily once we got there.
Models and trains are definitely not girly/feminine, I don't see the correlation. My grandfather who fought in WWII still has models of trains and he's one of the coolest guys I know. Also I'm sure he would call you baby boomers just as bad, if not even worse in terms of being girly boys.
:Edit: Yeah, your jimmies have definitely been rustled. LOL, why so mad?
baby boomer? Dem's fighting words. Dawn. Whippy sticks. Be there.
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Regardless, it's still My Little Pony. It's a show about brightly pastel colored ponies.
Honestly the saddest part about the whole show is that males who watch it call themselves "bronies". That's pathetic and sad whichever way you want to slice it.
"Hey doods, I'm a bronie! See how cool I am? lol"
Newsflash, if you like this show and/or call yourself a brony, you need to grow up. Unless you're 12 or younger, and you're also a girl. Most males are becoming increasingly feminine which is disappointing. I would actually encourage that you get bullied if you like this show, because you deserve it. Seriously. Absolutely no trolling. If you like MLP, you deserve to be ostracized.
So what? get off it.
I was into models and trains when I was a kid, and riding yamahas. I don't get the MLP stuff either but frankly all you kids are slavering girly boys compared to my generation. We had to walk through the freezing snow and rain uphill everyday to school, and had to wrestle alligators, dig 16 tons of coal, and spar with Smokin Joe for PE daily once we got there.
Models and trains are definitely not girly/feminine, I don't see the correlation. My grandfather who fought in WWII still has models of trains and he's one of the coolest guys I know. Also I'm sure he would call you baby boomers just as bad, if not even worse in terms of being girly boys.
:Edit: Yeah, your jimmies have definitely been rustled. LOL, why so mad?
baby boomer? Dem's fighting words. Dawn. Whippy sticks. Be there.
Yarr, you started it cap'n, I intend to finish it.
Frazzled wrote:
So what? get off it.
I was into models and trains when I was a kid, and riding yamahas. I don't get the MLP stuff either but frankly all you kids are slavering girly boys compared to my generation. We had to walk through the freezing snow and rain uphill everyday to school, and had to wrestle alligators, dig 16 tons of coal, and spar with Smokin Joe for PE daily once we got there.
My desk job HAS made my hands embarrassingly soft in the recent years...
Amusing anecdote, I walked to school every day, and there was a large valley between the school and my house, so I actually had to walk uphill both, to school AND back.
We had to move a lot. Depending on the school it was righteously cold or really hot. On the flip side it was like 12 miles to my Jr. High so definitely bus time. Is it just me or do school buses suck like they were designed by Stalin to suck or something? No airconditioning in a fake leather (what the hell was that material!!!!) bench seat in Houston in May is, well sucky.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
Amaya wrote:There's nothing long with watching and enjoying MLP, especially since it practically caters to males 16-24 now with constant pop culture references that are not aimed by any means at little girls. They've had Big Lebowski and Dr. Who references on it...
Regardless, it's still My Little Pony. It's a show about brightly pastel colored ponies.
Honestly the saddest part about the whole show is that males who watch it call themselves "bronies". That's pathetic and sad whichever way you want to slice it.
"Hey doods, I'm a bronie! See how cool I am? lol"
Newsflash, if you like this show and/or call yourself a brony, you need to grow up. Unless you're 12 or younger, and you're also a girl. Most males are becoming increasingly feminine which is disappointing. I would actually encourage that you get bullied if you like this show, because you deserve it. Seriously. Absolutely no trolling. If you like MLP, you deserve to be ostracized.
So what? get off it.
I was into models and trains when I was a kid, and riding yamahas. I don't get the MLP stuff either but frankly all you kids are slavering girly boys compared to my generation. We had to walk through the freezing snow and rain uphill everyday to school, and had to wrestle alligators, dig 16 tons of coal, and spar with Smokin Joe for PE daily once we got there.
Models and trains are definitely not girly/feminine, I don't see the correlation. My grandfather who fought in WWII still has models of trains and he's one of the coolest guys I know. Also I'm sure he would call you baby boomers just as bad, if not even worse in terms of being girly boys.
:Edit: Yeah, your jimmies have definitely been rustled. LOL, why so mad?
baby boomer? Dem's fighting words. Dawn. Whippy sticks. Be there.
Yarr, you started it cap'n, I intend to finish it.
Careful. as in the words of some guy playing Davey Crockett, I'm a screamer.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
Hey! Rule one, buddy!
Don't make me sick the Mods on you!
Err... Jake? Why did you quote me out of the blue?
Hmmm. Well, I was bullied when I was a kid, and regularly stood up to the bullies, and it didn't stop. It never stopped. I was a physically weak and sickly, clumsy kid. Eventually, I developed a fairly barbed tongue, but to be honest, that didn't stop them. What stopped them was that we all grew up, I left and went to college, and never saw any of those pricks again. I'm sure they continue to bully the weaker members of their social circles now, some of them, though others may have grown out of it.
Redbeard is right when he says that bullying is a natural human phenomenon, and that a lot of bullied people make themselves a target due to standing out.
In my case, my dad was the strictest local policeman around ,and my brother was a double hard bastard who solved his issues by braining the other party when he had to. I was skinny, short and clumsy, so if someone wanted to get back at my brother or father, riling some of the kids my age up to attack me was a pretty good way to do it. My brother was too well brought up to hammer someone younger than him. Add to that that I was academic in a vocational school, had nerdy interests in a primarily rural environment, and that I reacted with obvious stiffness and suppressed emotion when bullied...well it was fething inevitable that they went for me. I must have been so amusing to them. And I never told on them either, believing I had to deal with it myself.
Did it make me stronger? Hmmm. Probably. But I was already fairly mentally independent. Some kids aren't so lucky. In my current job I see a lot of emotionally vulnerable, shy and awkward girls being bullied to the point where they end up leaving school. Their education suffers, their health suffers. Calling them weak and despising them is wrong- there isn't anything wrong with being sensitive or shy. They need to be protected, and zero tolerance on bullying is the way to do it. As a teacher though, it's maddening trying to deal with it. Other teachers can be very indifferent, or even find the bullied party repellent for the same reasons the bullies do. That is extremely common. They say "Oh he/she brings it on themselves" and do nothing, like that's an excuse. I won't go into details about individual cases, but I've seen kids with disabilities physically attacked and had that response. The other issue is that I have so little time, and less contact time, and I'm trying to do an entirely different job while controlling the bullying. And the bullied kids often won't tell me anything when I ask them. The bullies themselves are often charmers, or well versed in claiming that their upbringing or their own problems "made them do it". They pretty often get a sympathetic ear.
I do take it extremely seriously though, and I have to say it's one of the aspects of my job that has the strongest emotional effect on me. I feel terrible reading posts by currently bullied kids on dakka, especially how powerless they feel and how they feel authority can't help them. The sad truth is, you are pretty much spot on.
The good news is, it gets better as you get older, and you get happier the more you let it go. College is awesome
Edit: And on Dan Savage, I get that his overall message is good, and my girlfriend loves him, but I don't like his style, his narrow vision, or his methods. While the Santorum thing was funny, it just reduced Savage to Santorum's level and made what should be a reasonable discussion a mud slinging match.
Redbeard wrote:You have choices. Whining about how this is unfair is not one of them - well, you can do it, but it won't help.
It might help. It likely won't have the same success rate as simply fitting in, but then trying to fit in doesn't necessarily work either. Conversely, actively attempting to stand out, and then embarrassing people that make certain assumptions about you due to your appearance or demeanor, can also be quite effective at securing social advancement. Its really just a matter of learning to use your personal qualities effectively.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, and the first comment? Why should my personal taste for enjoyment make me a subject for bullying? You are a wargamer, me and you are in the same boat buddy,
Not even close, "buddy". Wargaming, while geeky, is decidedly a male-oriented hobby (Have I just summoned Melissia?). Out of the hundreds of people who played in the 40k events at Adepticon, I think there were three women, total. I don't know about the Warmachine or Fantasy games, but the point is obvious. Among the people I game with are soldiers, firefighters, cops, construction workers and football players. I may get called out as a geek because I'm a wargamer, but these days, being a geek generally means you'll make a good living.
My Little Ponies, whatever you think of them, are aimed at a target demographic of pre-teen girls. Why should your personal taste make you a subject for bullying? Because you have chosen a taste that is decidedly feminine and girly. And while in your utopian dreamland were no one is judged for anything, in the real world where the rest of us live, you will be judged for this choice, and there will be consequences, and whining about those consequences is just as bad as making the choice. If you want to be thought of as a man, do manly things. If you want to be thought of as a pre-teen girl, do pre-teen girly things.
Oh, so a guy being girly is wrong? Why is that? It is because you think women are inferior to men? therefore men shoulld not be down on a womens level?
@dogma - Yup, never underestimate the power of peacocking. I wore nail-varnish fairly frequently in secondary school (back when this was very uncommon) - a lot of lads found it weird, a lot of chicks found it fascinating. Case in point, I lost my v-plates before the age of 16.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, so a guy being girly is wrong? Why is that? It is because you think women are inferior to men? therefore men shoulld not be down on a womens level?
See, gak like this is your problem, dude. Whether being 'girly' is right or wrong is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what the mob thinks, and high-school kids are most definitely a mob. That's just the practicality of the situation you find yourself in.
You know what the norms are, and you're choosing to outwardly go against them. That's your choice. The consequences are directly linked to that choice, sadly. I went against the norms in my school and managed to ride it out, using a combination of not taking myself and my choices very seriously (it's high-school, nothing you do matters - I realised that early, to my benefit), making the most of my social life outside of school ( I was out playing gigs, smoking pot and shagging girls when most of the 'cool' kids at my school were being tucked up in bed at 10pm every night), and making it explicitly clear that I was prepared to physically defend myself, should someone cross the line. They rarely did.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, and the first comment? Why should my personal taste for enjoyment make me a subject for bullying? You are a wargamer, me and you are in the same boat buddy,
I don't think proudly associating yourself with children's shows that are intended for little girls is really doing yourself any favors as far as minimizing the bullying. Your Lisa Frank stationary probably isn't helping matters much either.
Most of the people I knew in middle/high school were ambivalent toward my playing of M:TG, D&D, or any other nerd games I did back then. Hell, I brought a fething chess board with me to school and would play on the lunch table. Most of the time I got picked on because I didn't have many friends, because I liked to be alone. The Boy Scouts was actually also somehow a trigger as well. I still can't figure that out.
"Yeah, I go camping, setting fires, and shooting guns."
"Pfft, sissy!"
"?"
Admittedly, my school wasn't exactly home to the best and the brightest. :/
I can only imagine what would have happened if I was parading around colorful anthropomorphic animals as the bestest thing in my life.
Also, as an afterthought, perhaps it's not just your personal taste, but that perhaps it's taken to an extreme? You've obviously quite... proud... of it. Perhaps you're coming off a little too strongly and people are reacting inappropriately as a result?
Its not that, Its more along the lines of why people think its wrong. Because its girly its inehrantly wrong for men to watch? If this was transformers no one would care.
As with most media, enjoying something, even if it outside cultural norms is fine. The problem is when you plaster a massive picture of Twilight Sparkle in your signature, use her for your avatar, and practically scream I AM A BRONY every post.
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
Yet everytime I call him on his constant BS my posts "mysteriously" dissapear...
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
Yet everytime I call him on his constant BS my posts "mysteriously" dissapear...
Amaya wrote:As with most media, enjoying something, even if it outside cultural norms is fine. The problem is when you plaster a massive picture of Twilight Sparkle in your signature, use her for your avatar, and practically scream I AM A BRONY every post.
You are begging for attention like that...
So he kept his mod powers without the title being public?
I wouldnt be shocked, though I just assumed he had naked pictures of one of them, or they owe him money or something since someone seems intent on being his guardian angel...
Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for insulting Dan Savage. Every once in a while I start thinking you have some reasonable opinions, then you post something truly mindless and evil.
Yet everytime I call him on his constant BS my posts "mysteriously" dissapear...
So which mod is his roommate anyways?
Spoiler:
Frazzled has hidden powers!
No Mod. Maybe he just needs to be more polite like Mannster. You'll get invited to go shooting, despite being wrong.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its not that, Its more along the lines of why people think its wrong. Because its girly its inehrantly wrong for men to watch? If this was transformers no one would care.
Actually, I'd ridicule you further for Transformers. Liking post-Bay Transformers is like beating a dead pony. At this point the only cool Transformers are the ones just beyond your substations.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its not that, Its more along the lines of why people think its wrong. Because its girly its inehrantly wrong for men to watch? If this was transformers no one would care.
Actually, I'd ridicule you further for Transformers. Liking post-Bay Transformers is like beating a dead pony. At this point the only cool Transformers are the ones just beyond your substations.
I grew up watching Transformers and Beast Wars.
They were never cool, people need to get over the nostalgia.
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its not that, Its more along the lines of why people think its wrong. Because its girly its inehrantly wrong for men to watch? If this was transformers no one would care.
Actually, I'd ridicule you further for Transformers. Liking post-Bay Transformers is like beating a dead pony. At this point the only cool Transformers are the ones just beyond your substations.
I grew up watching Transformers and Beast Wars.
They were never cool, people need to get over the nostalgia.
Beast Wars wasn't THAT bad. I mean, sure it was Reboot quality graphics, but no one else had tried to do that since reboot. It deserved honorable mention.
And I mean, I still maintain that the coolest transformers are the ones outside your houses.
It wasn't that bad, but just like Thundercats and GI Joe (amongst other things), it's a wildly overrated children's show that people are nostalgic and obsessive over.
Amaya wrote:It wasn't that bad, but just like Thundercats and GI Joe (amongst other things), it's a wildly overrated children's show that people are nostalgic and obsessive over.
I wouldn't say Transformers if wildly overrated when the 3 part cartoon premiere is more enjoyable to watch than the hundred and fifty million dollar premiere to the film franchise. I mean seriously, can you watch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transformers:_The_Movie and wish that it was more like any of the live action movies?
Amaya wrote:It wasn't that bad, but just like Thundercats and GI Joe (amongst other things), it's a wildly overrated children's show that people are nostalgic and obsessive over.
I wouldn't say Transformers if wildly overrated when the 3 part cartoon premiere is more enjoyable to watch than the hundred and fifty million dollar premiere to the film franchise. I mean seriously, can you watch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transformers:_The_Movie and wish that it was more like any of the live action movies?
;
That doesn't mean the cartoon is good, that just means the movies are really bad.
so pastors tell people to beat their kids if they act gay, dan savage says can't we just ignore that 1 extra part of the bible on top of all the other stuff we already ignore, to kids being bullied to the point of suicide.
Whats so awesome is thats completely not what the firestorm with gak for brains Savage is about.
Okay, so he links three stories. In the second one, a pastor tells his congregation:
Pastor Harris wrote:“So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, ‘Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,’ you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed….Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch. Ok? You are not going to act like that. You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male.”
And in the second, Dan Savage says that some parts of the Bible are bs, and we should ignore those parts. A sentiment that you agree with.
And Dan's the firestorm gak for brains? Sometimes you really do post unconscionable things. I know you're not a stupid guy, but that was a doozy. Did you actually watch the video, or did you skip it? He didn't bash Christianity in general. He insulted hypocrites and bigots, not all Christians.
I think Dan was a little rough in his choice of rhetoric. You catch more flies with honey, after all. You can make the point that Christians routinely ignore inapplicable or immoral instructions in the Bible without having to use profanity. I think it would work better. That said, I'm not a gay dude and have never been beaten up or hated for my sexuality, so I can't really know where he's coming from in terms of lingering anger. Being gentler might sell the Christians better. That said, maybe he thinks it's more inspiring to the gay kids to be defiant, and that channeling that anger will help some of these kids not kill themselves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:Its ok. The Mannster and I have a special relationship and reserve the right to call each other flaming poopy heads of poopy poop, while at the same time knowing that if he comes to town he'll be forced to do my new found fun run of a swig of the Wife's private label wine (Wiener dog wine: red with a little bite) followed by stopping at Wtare to Wine before a movie where we sample a flight of wines, followed by the Flix Brewhouse where we will sit in leather recliners, watch a movie, eat dinner and drink...beer (ok more wine for me). The next morning I'll drag him out of bed to go blow up milk jugs with a few thousand rounds. Tbone will make him throw a ball a few hundred times (but only a few feet as he can't see it more than that).
Manny's He's my little Yankee Buddy.
Thanks, man. You're my little Redneck Buddy. I will hold you to that itinerary, though as I recall there needs to be some rum and single malt scotch in there, as previously-agreed. Sounds like I need to add a day or two if I go down to Austin for WargamesCon. Flix Brewhouse is better than the Alamo Drafthouse?
Amaya wrote:It wasn't that bad, but just like Thundercats and GI Joe (amongst other things), it's a wildly overrated children's show that people are nostalgic and obsessive over.
Thundercats, I used to really like that show. I think that was the dawn of the furries.
Back on topic though, no longer replying to amaya.
its odd that we can't seem to have a constructive conversation about how to deal with bullies. I mean really trying to bully other dakka members?
What can we do to stop bullies in school before the problem gets out of hand. We should be able to as a enlightened society find a way to keep kids from being bullied to the point where some will commit suicide, and others will go and shoot up the school.
Awareness is always the perfect place to start.
After that, instead of just suing the school, the parents of bullies need to be sued. The bullies need to be punished and the parents made part of the solution. just telling the victim to suck it up is not an answer.
If the parents of bullies don't seem to be able to control their kids, then the kids should be taken away from the parents.
I think this will go a long way to ending bullying in our schools.
If all the hatred towards gays seem to come from 3 lines in the bible, then openly discussing the bible is not persecuting christians. its getting to the root of a problem.
Flix Brewhouse is better than the Alamo Drafthouse?
Both are good. I like the seating for Flix better (seating by group being the earlier you ordered tickets the earlier you get in). Plus they are located next to an excellent wineshop.
I don't really know who the guy is., I don't care that much. I just don't like bashing Christians in a public forum with high school students.
Redneck? Well I did get hot today walking Tbone. I walked the other guys first then me and TBone to a nice slow Tbone walk because he can't keep up. Darned if a cat didn't run up to us and try to start gak. Seriously? Tbone mosied up to it and realized it wasn't a dog and had one of his senior moments anf got confused about where the hell he was at.
The whole "man up, deal with it, that's just life" arguments have always seemed strange to me. The deviant behaviour would be the bully's not the victim's is it not? Seems odd to request the victim to change their behaviour to comply with their tormentors, rather than demand the aggressor to stop being a bully.
Also I don't understand why sensitive people and the like need to "toughen up" and so on, shouldn't they be treated more delicately on account of you know...being sensitive? It's seems spiteful to criticize someone who already is very sensitive. Does being overly sensitive itself warrant the harassment? That seems like a very counter intuitive way of "fixing" them as it were.
Why should you 'ignore' parts of the Bible? If you actually consider those parts, you might notice that it's a pretty horrible book in places and not something to base morality on in the 21st Century.
As for bullying... it'll always happen so long as some kids are just exceptionally strange when considered next to the norm. I guess it should be discouraged and those that do it punished, but it's never going to leave. Children are cruel and generally dislike 'freaks'.
Flix Brewhouse is better than the Alamo Drafthouse?
Both are good. I like the seating for Flix better (seating by group being the earlier you ordered tickets the earlier you get in). Plus they are located next to an excellent wineshop.
Cool. Sounds like a plan!
Frazzled wrote:I don't really know who the guy is., I don't care that much. I just don't like bashing Christians in a public forum with high school students.
Understood, of course. If you watch the video you will see that he was not bashing all Christians. He was specifically bashing bigoted and hypocritical Christians. He used provocative language, talking about "bs in the Bible", which was probably making the point a bit rougher than he needed to, and has since apologized. I've been reading his stuff off and on for about twenty years now, and he's a bit of a personal hero, though he's screwed up a few times trying to do the right thing and make a difference. Heck, he's one of the few liberals I knew who supported going to war with Iraq, because he genuinely believed it was the right thing to do at the time, and was willing to go against the crowd to say so publicly.
Frazzled wrote:Redneck? Well I did get hot today walking Tbone. I walked the other guys first then me and TBone to a nice slow Tbone walk because he can't keep up. Darned if a cat didn't run up to us and try to start gak. Seriously? Tbone mosied up to it and realized it wasn't a dog and had one of his senior moments anf got confused about where the hell he was at.
Nice. If you're going to call me "little buddy", I get to call you redneck.
It's interesting that people keep telling people it will stop after high school. Standing up for yourself is something you have to learn early or else you'll be walked on all your life. They may not be shoving you in your locker and stealing your lunch money, but they will still walk all over you.
People are cut-throat and just because older folks know not to call someone a epithet and punch them in the gentle person parts, doesn't mean they won't stab you in them when the time comes.
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:It's interesting that people keep telling people it will stop after high school.
In some ways it can be a bit worse after high school. Working for a dick can have much larger implications than having to deal with one at school where it doesn't affect your career or livelihood.
asimo77 wrote: It's seems spiteful to criticize someone who already is very sensitive.
It depends entirely on the intent of the criticism. Is it specifically done to spite them, or is it just a descriptive statement regarding the nature of some aspects of life and that people should develop skills to cope with the fact that there are dildos roaming the earth?
Henners91 wrote:Why should you 'ignore' parts of the Bible?
Generally speaking, the idea is that the old testament and the new testament essentially refer to different covenants with god-- the old testament being the Old Covenant, while the new testament is the New Covenant, and overrides the old. Thus the core message of Christianity is usually placed to be in the new testament section.
Henners91 wrote:Why should you 'ignore' parts of the Bible? If you actually consider those parts, you might notice that it's a pretty horrible book in places and not something to base morality on in the 21st Century.
A lot of people find quite a lot of meaningful and wonderful stuff in it; enough to support a functional and lovely system of worship and morality. There's also a lot of stuff in the Bible that's not so nice, and which has been used over the centuries to justify a lot of barbarity and bigotry. Christians can and do evaluate for themselves what parts of the Bible they will emphasize or focus on in their own lives, and most of them do that just fine.
As adults we are each responsible for our own system of ethics and morals, and for how we treat one another. Each of us develops his own code or modifies one we have been taught or studied on our own. Christianity is a source like others, and one with a long history and rich traditions, which give a lot of people a sense of continuity- Of being grounded in history; part of a living tradition which connects them to the past and to what has been (for the most part, by most folks' lights) an embodiment of the better impulses and noble, charitable feelings of humanity. Of course there are a lot of other darker things associated with any powerful institution, and a lot of nastiness that's been perpetrated in its name, but that doesn't mean the whole thing should be discarded.
For those still concerned at the fact that the modern world utterly ignores so many of the obscure rules in the Bible, consider a final result of translation. English-speaking Christians universally call the two major sections of the Bible the Old Testament and the New Testament. There is, however, better terminology for these two: the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Though they (and we) routinely broke it, the Israelites began with a covenant with God: Canaan from the Nile to the Euphrates would belong to them if they would follow God’s Law. Part of the basic thesis of Christianity is that the sacrifice of Jesus has fundamentally altered this relationship between mankind and God. Reflecting the change clearly by viewing the non-Hebraic part of the Bible as a New Covenant might help focus attention more on the love that the message of Jesus centers on rather than rituals which helped distinguish the Hebrews from the non-Hebrews among whom they lived – but which the Bible ceaselessly points out had not successfully caused people to live in the faith to which God calls them.
As Mannahnin says, it's up to each individual person what they believe, especially on matters of faith.
Really sad stuff, and i do agree with the previous comments of schools don't care. they're too careful, too afraid of reprisal in some form.
On the other hand, that pastor, too far, and as always, one insensitive nut job should not set the standard for all in the faith.
Back on topic though, the victim has a right, even a responsibility to let people who will listen know or take the matters into their own hands if things become physical. On the other side of the fence though, some of these kids may be going through puberty and not to speak badly of the dead, but killing yourself is pretty stupid, and in some cases , sympathy for the victim can be hard to come by, not that the aggressor is exhonerated from what he's done though.
asimo77 wrote:The whole "man up, deal with it, that's just life" arguments have always seemed strange to me. The deviant behaviour would be the bully's not the victim's is it not? Seems odd to request the victim to change their behaviour to comply with their tormentors, rather than demand the aggressor to stop being a bully.
I'm so sick to hear the arguements that favors bullyism. it's simply inhumane! it is like you say Gangsterism is a good thing. it's like to say, Slavery is okay. and 'Massacre is nessessary to keep peace and order'
asimo77 wrote:The whole "man up, deal with it, that's just life" arguments have always seemed strange to me. The deviant behaviour would be the bully's not the victim's is it not? Seems odd to request the victim to change their behaviour to comply with their tormentors, rather than demand the aggressor to stop being a bully.
It's like this: Someone is doing something wrong, perhaps even several someones. Correcting an inappropriate behaviour is time consuming and resource intensive, to do it correctly. The system does not have the resources, or worse yet, the system is too indifferent to utilize those resources toward correcting the behaviour.
Now, consider this: You're the only one getting disadvantaged by the someone doing something wrong. You can either stamp your feet until you get the system to change (if they ever will), or you can do whatever it takes to overcome your disadvantage on your own. Which one requires the least external cooperation? Which one is the most likely to happen?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Note: I'm not saying this is how life should be. It sucks. Totally. It's just an analysis of how life is.
Lone Cat wrote:I'm so sick to hear the arguements that favors bullyism. it's simply inhumane!
I think you'll find that bullying is part of human nature. In fact, it's not just humans, it's most social mammals, and this is why you cannot simply make a rule that says 'don't bully'. Claiming that bullying is inhmane either shows a lack of understanding of human nature, or a lack of understanding that the root of humane is human.
Social animals need hierarchies. Bullying is a more primal way of establishing a hierarchy among adolescents. As we get older, we get past the whole 'who is physically stronger' and establish our hierarchies around things like who has a bigger paycheck, who has better thoughts, or who has been promoted the most. But for most adolescents, hierarchies are established by various types of bullying, either physical or verbal. Sometimes they're guided by adults, as you'll find in sports (the 'best' player is atop a hierarchy, for example), but what is generally referred to as bullying is really just a form of establishing dominance and ones place within the society.
Those who are bullied are perceived as being weak in some way. It may be because they're deliberately attempting to avoid the societal norms, it may be because they act overly submissive and don't stand up for themselves. Whatever the reason, they get bullied because the bullys want to put on a show of dominance to raise their standing in the hierarchy.
You can see the same behaviours in adolescent dogs. And, like with dogs, the best solution is to allow the "bullied" party figure their own way out of it. A dog that is overly protected by its owner doesn't learn to stand up for itself, and will exhibit problem behaviours when meeting other dogs for most of its life. A dog that is allowed to figure it out for themselves is going to learn the tools that will help it avoid problems as an adult dog, and will be a happier healthier dog because it will have gained confidence in itself.
A kid who constantly has to appeal to authority figures - figures who will not always be present - to avoid being bullied is not going to learn to stand up for himself. He's not going to learn any conflict resolution skills. He's never going to get the self-confidence that will result in him being a happy, healthy member of society. (And, this is a lesson that comes up over and over and over in movies. Consider Back to the Future, for example).
This really isn't "pro-bullying" - it's pro-reality. You cannot get rid of bullying, because it is part of being a social mammal, and it's a natural stage that adolescents go through. Encouraging draconian laws with harsh consequences for bullying won't get rid of bullying, it will just put the bullys into 'the system', and prevent the bullied from learning to stand up for themselves.
Please spoiler that, that comic is NSFW. As is that page.
I wish I was joking.
Redbeard wrote:I think you'll find that bullying is part of human nature. In fact, it's not just humans, it's most social mammals, and this is why you cannot simply make a rule that says 'don't bully'. Claiming that bullying is inhmane either shows a lack of understanding of human nature, or a lack of understanding that the root of humane is human.
The first definition given by most dictionaries for humane is something along the lines of:
"Having or showing compassion or benevolence."
Thus, bullying is inhumane by that definition. This is also the most commonly used definition and makes your entire post look rather pedantic at best, and nonsensical at worst.
Word Origin & History:
humane
mid-15c., variant of human, used interchangeably with it until early 18c., when it began to be a distinct word with sense of "having qualities befitting human beings."
Redbeard wrote:Claiming that bullying is inhmane either shows a lack of understanding of human nature, or a lack of understanding that the root of humane is human.
The fact that "humane" stems from "human" isn't relevant, as the word's meaning is not "Of, or pertaining to, humans." Humane actions are those that are compassionate, or noble, and the term essentially denotes the "higher" aspects of human tendencies. To put it bluntly, an action can be taken by a human (say, torture) and still be inhumane.
Redbeard wrote:
This really isn't "pro-bullying" - it's pro-reality. You cannot get rid of bullying, because it is part of being a social mammal, and it's a natural stage that adolescents go through. Encouraging draconian laws with harsh consequences for bullying won't get rid of bullying, it will just put the bullys into 'the system', and prevent the bullied from learning to stand up for themselves.
Learning to appeal to mechanisms of authority, be they formal or informal, is part of standing up for yourself. Indeed, once you move past the "I can kick your ass!" phase, its pretty much the only way to stand up for yourself without serious repercussions.
Redbeard wrote:
From dictionary.reference.com:
Word Origin & History:
humane
mid-15c., variant of human, used interchangeably with it until early 18c., when it began to be a distinct word with sense of "having qualities befitting human beings."
Lone Cat wrote:I'm so sick to hear the arguements that favors bullyism. it's simply inhumane!
I think you'll find that bullying is part of human nature. In fact, it's not just humans, it's most social mammal.
A kid who constantly has to appeal to authority figures - figures who will not always be present - to avoid being bullied is not going to learn to stand up for himself. He's not going to learn any conflict resolution skills. He's never going to get the self-confidence that will result in him being a happy, healthy member of society. (And, this is a lesson that comes up over and over and over in movies. Consider Back to the Future, for example).
This really isn't "pro-bullying" - it's pro-reality. You cannot get rid of bullying, because it is part of being a social mammal, and it's a natural stage that adolescents go through. Encouraging draconian laws with harsh consequences for bullying won't get rid of bullying, it will just put the bullys into 'the system', and prevent the bullied from learning to stand up for themselves.
So you're now being an advocate to gangsters to extort anyone at will? and and advocate to 'would-be' gangsters?
the 'nature' you quotes here is a clear advocacy to a villanity of gangsterism. which bullyist is likely to become.
If you say. "Anti-bullyism" crusade ruins humanity. what will it be if a victim develops 'countermeasure' through bloodsheds?
if you say any school disciplines to preventt bullyism is a waste. you are saying that school shooting as an act of revenge against bullyist is acceptable.
Discuss this with educational experts. and you'll feel that "Keep it Natural" mindset is a villanity.
You need a debate with those experts who conducts various researches on bullyism and you will see the distinctions between 'Human' and other 'Social mammals'
dogma wrote:
Redbeard wrote:Claiming that bullying is inhmane either shows a lack of understanding of human nature, or a lack of understanding that the root of humane is human.
The fact that "humane" stems from "human" isn't relevant, as the word's meaning is not "Of, or pertaining to, humans." Humane actions are those that are compassionate, or noble, and the term essentially denotes the "higher" aspects of human tendencies. To put it bluntly, an action can be taken by a human (say, torture) and still be inhumane.
Yeh! That's EXACTLY what distincts human and arrays of social mammals
It's also in human male's nature to copulate with every attractive female they encounter. Does this mean rape is justifiable as a means of spreading their dominant seed and strengthening the human race?
dogma wrote:
Learning to appeal to mechanisms of authority, be they formal or informal, is part of standing up for yourself. Indeed, once you move past the "I can kick your ass!" phase, its pretty much the only way to stand up for yourself without serious repercussions.
I supposed you have never needed to negotiate a salary, or a raise? Did you run to the cops and say, I'm not being paid enough, can you talk to my boss for me?
Standing up for yourself, as an adult, has very little to do with appealing to authority.
Amaya wrote:It's also in human male's nature to copulate with every attractive female they encounter. Does this mean rape is justifiable as a means of spreading their dominant seed and strengthening the human race?
While I disagree with your premise, I find your conclusion to be culturally biased towards a modern western culture. There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role, and they seem to have done okay. The Mongolian culture at the time of Genghis Khan features quite a lot of raiding the neighboring tribes to steal their women. They established the largest empire the world had seen, and their influences to civilization deemed so significant that Time's Man of the Millennium was Genghis Khan, who it is known engaged in the wife-stealing that was accepted in their culture.
Redbeard wrote:
I supposed you have never needed to negotiate a salary, or a raise? Did you run to the cops and say, I'm not being paid enough, can you talk to my boss for me?
No, I appealed to the owner of the gym I worked at, and over time convinced him that the manager in charge of determining my pay was incompetent; eventually taking his job. I appealed to authority, and was rewarded quite nicely. I even got a little warm fuzzy feeling inside when I watched said manager pack up his office after being fired.
Redbeard wrote:
Standing up for yourself, as an adult, has very little to do with appealing to authority.
Not always, no, but often its an important component. Simply asking for, or demanding, a raise isn't always going to work. In the event that it doesn't, there are generally other avenues available, such as going above the person who is in the immediate position to grant you a raise.
Ultimately, claiming that standing up for yourself has nothing to do with people in the hierarchy above you makes about as much sense as claiming that its always a good idea to tell the truth. Its naive at the best of times.
Sure, but just because it isn't right doesn't mean it won't happen. Bullying is, typically, an adolescent thing. How much respect do teenagers typically have for rules.
We're not dealing with adults here, remember. We're dealing with a bunch of hormone-driven children who aren't always acting in their own best interest. This is precisely the age when they're most susceptible to acting out.
We tell teenagers not to drink - but they go out of their way to do so. We tell teenagers not to have sex, yet we see teenage pregnancies. Teenagers, as a whole, don't judge the consequences of their actions before doing them.
To me, that means that the sorts of zero-tolerance rules that are popular among educators these days will not have the desired effect. Kids will still bully each other, only now there will be strict and harsh punishments as a result. Zero tolerance! So, instead of a reasonable punishment for bullying, such as a lecture, the bully will end up serving a suspension or getting kicked out of school. Entirely too harsh for what's going on, and what will always go on simply because of the age groups we're talking about.
Actually, you have bullying at all ages, in all social groups, which it makes it important to be able to deal with meaningless verbal crap because you will encounter it at some point.
Commisar Von Humps wrote:Really sad stuff, and i do agree with the previous comments of schools don't care. they're too careful, too afraid of reprisal in some form.
On the other hand, that pastor, too far, and as always, one insensitive nut job should not set the standard for all in the faith.
Back on topic though, the victim has a right, even a responsibility to let people who will listen know or take the matters into their own hands if things become physical. On the other side of the fence though, some of these kids may be going through puberty and not to speak badly of the dead, but killing yourself is pretty stupid, and in some cases , sympathy for the victim can be hard to come by, not that the aggressor is exhonerated from what he's done though.
I'd never say one pastor represents all christians. but he is a part of the problem.
Then you have people like:
Who gets it and sets a good example. Here's a christian who got past those 3 lines in the bible and is advocating that gays should be allowed to marry.
But this is my whole problem with christianity in a nut shell. Both use the bible as the source for their beliefs. Who is right? you start with one book and get two totally different answers to a very complicated question. if you put both pastors I've sourced in the room together, how long would it be before one accuses the other of not being a "true christian" and condemning the other to hell.
Redbeard wrote:There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role
If by "successful" you mean "they're generally gakholes that noone wants to live in", yes.
You really don't know your history at all do you. The Mongol empire, under Genghis Khan, was one of the most culturally enlightened empires the world has ever seen.
Redbeard wrote:
While I disagree with your premise, I find your conclusion to be culturally biased towards a modern western culture.
Of course it is, that's how one makes normative judgments, which form the foundation of morality. Note that rape isn't nearly so prevalent today as it was in the time of Genghis Khan, this is largely because we, as a society, have decided that rape is not desirable and so we seek to limit its incidence. Similarly, many members of Western society have decided that bullying is not desirable, and so seek to limit its incidence.
Simply because we cannot completely eliminate behavior X is no reason to attempt to minimize behavior X, if it were then the very argument you're using to suggest that bullying is inevitable would be internally inconsistent.
Redbeard wrote:There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role
If by "successful" you mean "they're generally gakholes that noone wants to live in", yes.
You really don't know your history at all do you. The Mongol empire, under Genghis Khan, was one of the most culturally enlightened empires the world has ever seen.
And then it crumbled in to dust as history moved on because of its many flaws.
I defy you to name a successful modern country where rape is considered to be an important part of the culture.
I wouldn't argue that rape (historically speaking) with great empires/nations was important to an empire or nation's structure and society. But was a "important" (for lack of a better term?) part of their military, psychologically, bestowing fear.
Another nation may be able to claim dominance with their army and partake in rape or as some call it, the spoils of conquest.
Redbeard wrote:There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role
If by "successful" you mean "they're generally gakholes that noone wants to live in", yes.
You really don't know your history at all do you. The Mongol empire, under Genghis Khan, was one of the most culturally enlightened empires the world has ever seen.
And then it crumbled in to dust as history moved on because of its many flaws.
I defy you to name a successful modern country where rape is considered to be an important part of the culture.
Can you name any successful modern country? What is the criteria? Hell, what does modern mean? Can I name Japan?
to me. 
talk about a heated discussion,... **walks away, pulls cloak of invisibility over head.**
