I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

I'm younger than most gamers. I mostly get flak because some of the gamers who are my age come to my local GW and act like Richards and TFGs.

Like trying to cheat or whine about my playstyle.

I'm a semi-decent painter, quite a poor gamer, but I'm getting closer and closer to success.

There's a certain amount of hate for any given group. Don't mind that. If you are decent player yourself, people will view you not as part of the stereotypical group, but as this specific guy who is a decent player.

The main problem is probably that a lot of older gamers will assume a lack of earned respect.

I'll explain....

Respect is earned, and that takes time.
The older a person/gamer is, people guess that respect has already been earned, and they treat them better automatically.
So, a younger person is less likely to have earned that respect, and have an uphill struggle.

It's also not going to be helped by the childish behaviour that gaming often brings out in people, old and young.

So, keep going the way you are.
Ask people for tips on their painting. Ask others how they think you can change your gaming to get better.
Don't overdo it, and the more you fit in, the better you will be treated.

It's not just a hobbyist thing. Get the hang of it in gaming, it will help later on.
Assumptions are a pain, and there is not much you can do about it. For every young gamer who does what you are doing, there's another who will set the bar back down for the next gamer who comes along.

In my area, the young'uns get no respec' because of how they behave (not saying the olders don't do this as well - but they cop the same crap for doing it).

Constantly leaving the table to check something else out.
Not declaring what they are rolling dice for.
Paying more attention to their MytwitterFaceSpacebook account on their phones than on the game.
Ragequitting after 1 turn (and or throwing ANYTHING, this means tantrums, dice, models, whatever).
Cheating and/or not playing by the rules of the game.
Using "verse" as a verb.
(As in "I versed him to a game.". Anyone using "verse" as a verb in my club has to do a 5 minute poetry improv on the spot or be mocked.).

If you can play a game without any of the above happening, then you will gain my respect. If not, you will not only not have my respect, you can expect to be roundly mocked.

Can't say you are wrong, there is animus towards younger gamers and younger people general. "Young people don't have the life's experience to form a legitimate opinion on life". Think young people are also associated in being too hyper or unable to sit at a table a play what is more of a tedious game compared to video games which are generally associated with being trigger happy games.

At one time I was the young guy in my gaming (I'm now the second youngest). Joined my gaming group at 17 and got a "F-U" like welcoming for about 4 years mostly no other reason other than I was young and the new guy.

Past year we got a new gamer and he has been getting the cold shoulder from just about the entire group.

Don't really care about the age as long as you can

play the game with some ability (don't mind helping out n00bs)
be honest
bring a good attitude
Not act like a jerk

Just unfortunate guilty by association.

chromedog wrote:In my area, the young'uns get no respec' because of how they behave (not saying the olders don't do this as well - but they cop the same crap for doing it).

Constantly leaving the table to check something else out.
Not declaring what they are rolling dice for.
Paying more attention to their MytwitterFaceSpacebook account on their phones than on the game.
Ragequitting after 1 turn (and or throwing ANYTHING, this means tantrums, dice, models, whatever).
Cheating and/or not playing by the rules of the game.
Using "verse" as a verb.
(As in "I versed him to a game.". Anyone using "verse" as a verb in my club has to do a 5 minute poetry improv on the spot or be mocked.).

If you can play a game without any of the above happening, then you will gain my respect. If not, you will not only not have my respect, you can expect to be roundly mocked.

Well how about this. You declare what you shoot at but your opponent just doesn't look so you have to do your whole shooting again because he thinks its unfair.

chromedog wrote:
Ragequitting after 1 turn (and or throwing ANYTHING, this means tantrums, dice, models, whatever).

This sucks when it happens.

Worse when someone takes their magic deck and chucks it right in your face.




Got 60 free cards though.

admiral9 wrote:

chromedog wrote:In my area, the young'uns get no respec' because of how they behave (not saying the olders don't do this as well - but they cop the same crap for doing it).

Constantly leaving the table to check something else out.
Not declaring what they are rolling dice for.
Paying more attention to their MytwitterFaceSpacebook account on their phones than on the game.
Ragequitting after 1 turn (and or throwing ANYTHING, this means tantrums, dice, models, whatever).
Cheating and/or not playing by the rules of the game.
Using "verse" as a verb.
(As in "I versed him to a game.". Anyone using "verse" as a verb in my club has to do a 5 minute poetry improv on the spot or be mocked.).

If you can play a game without any of the above happening, then you will gain my respect. If not, you will not only not have my respect, you can expect to be roundly mocked.

Well how about this. You declare what you shoot at but your opponent just doesn't look so you have to do your whole shooting again because he thinks its unfair.

I know that people gave shoved my models back with the back of their hand and made me measure an inch on my Tape Measure... This was 5 scouts...

Oh i remember that one the old shove 'n measure.
It made me missile launchers impossible to get a good shot.

Theres plenty of younger gamers at the club I go to (probably ages 12-15 I imagine) most are fine to game with.

The only things that annoy me is if they have half an army proxied with anything they can find, or they just dont know how to play at all, but to be fair everyone has to start somewhere.

Lastly and least commonly they have some soft drink and get all hyper then its just hard to play a game while they bounce off the walls.

Xeriapt wrote:Theres plenty of younger gamers at the club I go to (probably ages 12-15 I imagine) most are fine to game with.

The only things that annoy me is if they have half an army proxied with anything they can find, or they just dont know how to play at all, but to be fair everyone has to start somewhere.

Lastly and least commonly they have some soft drink and get all hyper then its just hard to play a game while they bounce off the walls.

I know that I've been yelled at a couple of times for leaving a game, as I'm checking my Blood Sugars.

If I have, Hypoglycemia, I'll act quite hyper, which has gotten me yelled at before

I just hate kids. Has nothing to do with whether they're on the other side of the table or not.

Still, I do my best to treat them politely and with the respect I would want them to give me. Just because you dislike someone doesn't mean you can't be civil.

I typically try not to play kids. As a 24 year old, "Kid" to me is the range of 12-16, possibly including 17 or 18 if they haven't matured enough to play without throwing a tantrum and without botching rules constantly. I'm okay with mistakes from anyone for the most part, but if I'm reading the rulebook to you for two hours, I'd rather just miss out on the game. Honestly, I don't like kids in much of any sense. I will say some are okay, and I realize it's harder for them to be taken seriously and earn respect. Once they do earn it, however, I'll stand behind them if someone else does try to slag them over minor issues.

The difference is that older gamers invest in their interests. Kids have no attention span, and the investment comes from their parents. There's no proof of a real interest, and so they seem to be be treated as outsiders (somewhat understandably) for that reason.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Xeriapt wrote:Theres plenty of younger gamers at the club I go to (probably ages 12-15 I imagine) most are fine to game with.

The only things that annoy me is if they have half an army proxied with anything they can find, or they just dont know how to play at all, but to be fair everyone has to start somewhere.

Lastly and least commonly they have some soft drink and get all hyper then its just hard to play a game while they bounce off the walls.

I know that I've been yelled at a couple of times for leaving a game, as I'm checking my Blood Sugars.

If I have, Hypoglycemia, I'll act quite hyper, which has gotten me yelled at before

Yes but that is an actual reason. Its different that when you walk away because you need to twit or chat with a friend.
I honestly don't even get that chatting during a game. You need to keep concentrating on the game not keep yourself distracted.

admiral9 wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Xeriapt wrote:Theres plenty of younger gamers at the club I go to (probably ages 12-15 I imagine) most are fine to game with.

The only things that annoy me is if they have half an army proxied with anything they can find, or they just dont know how to play at all, but to be fair everyone has to start somewhere.

Lastly and least commonly they have some soft drink and get all hyper then its just hard to play a game while they bounce off the walls.

I know that I've been yelled at a couple of times for leaving a game, as I'm checking my Blood Sugars.

If I have, Hypoglycemia, I'll act quite hyper, which has gotten me yelled at before

Yes but that is an actual reason. Its different that when you walk away because you need to twit or chat with a friend.
I honestly don't even get that chatting during a game. You need to keep concentrating on the game not keep yourself distracted.

I know that in a tournament there were a pair of brand new players who stopped midgame to play something on their mobiles. We had to get staff to tell them to concentrate. They left after that.

Iv seen kids running around inside at a tournie playing tag and crawling under tables before. They were probably about 13.

That was scary, too many fragile things about lol.

Part of the reason from my expirince is not hate so much as adults want to game with adults. People they have something in common with. I have no problem with playing games with "children" i.e. anyone still at school, but sometimes I want to play against adults who I can relate to. You won't often find groups of under 18's with someone in there 30's outside of wargaming, yet you will often find groups of people with people in there 20's and in there 60's.

There are many reasons for this, non of which are to do with hate.

The hate, IMO comes from a combination of some "kids" who cannot act in a polite way taring everyone and some "adults" (normaly in there early 20's from my expirince) who don't want to intereact with children at all. The "I'm oh so cool and oh so adult" types.

Most of the time I have no problem with under 18's who act in a way appropriate for the situation.

Equaly I worry about children who are calm and polite at all times. There is only so much time in your life you can get hyped up on cola and sweets and go crazy without being arrested, just as there is only a limited time you drink all weekend. Enjoy it, just at the right time and right place!

Nobody needs to be polite all the time. You are truly polite when you know when it is the time to be polite. When i am around my normal friends. I don't act super polite its just that you should know when to be polite and when not.

Piston Honda wrote:

Worse when someone takes their magic deck and chucks it right in your face.

Just means that another deck of cards went into the bin here.
Either that or I just scored some BBQ kindling.
In the local store where magic players are actually welcomed (we don't truck with those card gamers in my club) - that gets you banned from the store and you lose your deck of cards. Owner has a zero tolerance policy.

I just hate kids but then where I live the tendency is for the "kids" we're talking about to already have kids of their own, fast-tracked to worthlessness.

I've never played 40K against someone I don't know, but I'll have to some day and I doubt I'll ever choose to play a kid aged 12 - 18. I know how much this hobby costs and if I was looking at a 2000 point army of fresh-clipped Grey Knights being controlled by Mr. G.C.S.E. mock exam I'd be really, really annoyed and the likelihood, in my mind, is that he'd be a spoiled brat.

I've earned my armies with uni loans.

P.S. And a lot of them don't understand that episodes 1-3 of Star Wars don't represent Star Wars in any way whatsoever. And they're ruining music systematically with all this effing X Factor. And they ruin Call of Duty. And Pokemon cards used to be awesome but now they're just a sad reminder of what used to be good and pure in the world.

When it comes to kids I will only play people who seem interested (too many times of playing TFG kids at a GW hence why I go to a LGS).

I will be coming back to this thread it will be interesting to see what people say though...

I think it's because you play Tau



Srs











(Not srs)

If you are a younger gamer and want to be treated like everyone else, paint your armies. Although I was (and still am) rubbish at the game, first tournament I went to, I showed up with this:



I won best painted army, but I needed a TON of help with the rules and non of my opponents got mad with me or anything.

I don't mind playing against younger gamers who genuinely seem interested with the game. The problem is that kids today simply don't have the patience to sit down and put in the long amount of time this hobby requires. So when they show up at the GW to be babysat with thier unpainted armies and thier ADHD behavior it just makes me not want to play them.

Now don't get me wrong, I have played against many young players and had a hell of a time. They were interested in the hobby as a whole and while thier painting wasn't that great and they didn't know the rules that well, you could tell they were giving it thier best and Warhammer wasn't just the new shiney thier parents thrust at them in order to get them to shut up for five minutes.

It's mostly because I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids. That, and you won't stay off my lawn.

I actually have nothing against kids, and tend to be more patient with them than with adults (comes with having my own, I guess). And I do expect kids to pick up the social cues, just like the adults. I have no problem correcting the behavior of any vertabrate (I don't try to train insects or mollusks), and I do notice that teenage boys are exceptionally prone to taking that personally (all teenage boys, and that's not something new).

TL;DR - Don't sweat it. You're probably sensitive to the way that older guys who are likely not socially adept are talking to you. Mostly they don't mean to be rude, but some of the older guys are not any better at social interaction than when they were your age.

Hating on kids is not nice, but the general lack of desire to spend time with younger gamers shouldn't be hard to understand. Myself and my other 30-something gaming friends don't play the big 3, so we don't have much contact with kid gamers, but there are 2 main things that would make us wary of younger gamers.

1) Adults wanting to play with adults. Whether it's the maturity level, language, desire to imbibe alcohoic beverages or general approach to the game, lots of vets don't always want to game with kids.

2) Unpainted armies. This is a personal thing, but my friends and I don't play with unpainted armies. Period. We wouldn't even be tempted to make exceptions for partially painted armies since so many of the kids we see haven't got a single painted figure.

In the end though, I'm not sure what the real issue here is. There's so many kids in the hobby anyway. Let the kids play with the kids for a while until they have worked out some of of their teen/pre-teen angst and immaturities, and found out whether they're serious about the hobby. Older players should take some interest in helping kids down this path and encouraging them in the hobby, but there's not much wrong with letting kids, be kids, with other kids.

I find it's quite often those in their late teens to 20s (say 18-28) who seem to hav ethe most problems with 'kids' (the 16s and under). Personally I've never had an unpleasant experience on the fairly rare occasions I've played anyone under 16, though I have noticed a tendency for the few players in that category i have faced to be somewhat elastic with their movement measuring. I have, however encountered much more blatant rules-bending/cheating from fully grown men in their 40s/50s. On the whole I've found the younger gamers locally to be polite and attentive to the game, again it's more some of the 20-year olds who seem to get distracted by their phones or conversations (though most of the 20-30 year olds are fine). Basically I find few opponents annoying but kids certainly no worse than others.

In my area they are hated for a good reason:

very immature, never bother to learn rules/look in their codex, act as if they can take anyone on and constantly ask stupid questions/dont shut the feth up/make stupid noises. I am obliged to tolerate them but damn are they annoying

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

Because hate leads to the darkside, which leads to infinate power.

Embrace the hate, let it flow....

I like young'uns, I think its just because some fat nerds like to act "awesome" about the hobby because they generally suck at life.

I mean, I'm only half joking, I'm great at sports, intelligent, confident, women adore me, my life is awesome, so why have an issue about saying "I suck!" or "well done, you soundly thrashed me!" to a kid? Or smiling and shutting my mouth if they are merely being young and boisterous and enjoying their hobby?

I'm of the opinion that the fatter you are and the more cheetos you eat, the more you will demand respect from strangers simply because you are older than they are. You dont deserve any.

Like the nerds who take everything too seriously in any hobby, so you get in Warhammer. Everyone has met someone like that, be it a mate with 12 world of warcraft characters or a bloke with an encyclopaedic knowledge of Red Dwarf, you always get a clever bastard who think they should be treated with respect just because they know more about one tiny facet of life than you do. Said hobby.

Age doesn't demand respect. I respect a bright teen more than a dense 30 year old. But I digress, the entire answer can be summed up in two words.

Elitist nerds.

You know what, Matty?

Next time you're in NE, or I'm in the UK, we need to have a game.

It would be terrifying, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only 40K game ever to have a bodycount, but it would be glorious.

I have absolutely no hate for the young gamer.
It's a fact of life that a 40 yr old and a 15 yr old have no business trying to act like peers.
If I'm interacting with a 15 yr old, its because I'm his mentor or his relative, otherwise our culture, experiences, and outlook are too different for it to be beneficial for either of us.

Amongst other things, younger players:

1) attract enemy radar
2) generally don't wash
3) damage my models
4) make strange noises
5) listen to rubbish music at loud volumes
6) Point to a leman russ and ask is that a tank?
7) cheat and use loaded dice
8) Have their mothers next to them.

etc etc.

The only younger players at our FLGS are the kind that cheat to win. Hard. Like rolling dice and saying they passed when there's a few 1's. Or fubaring general rules like who strikes first in melee.

Baseline hate can come from how someone acts or what army they play. Otherwise, you should be fine if you're nice and such.

I don't care for our youngins because they have a poor grasp on the rules and then second guess me when I correct them.

Last game I played with them one of them was moving his Tau as both jump infantry AND jetpacks, so 12" move and the 6" slide after.

Another time, I had to spend about 20 minutes going over the assault rules with them in the middle of a game, explanation of why you'd still need to make a difficult terrain test is apparently hard.

They generally have attention issues also. It usually takes about 4 hours there to play even a small game.

This obviously doesn't apply to ALL the kids these days, but this is the list of reasons I dislike my particular set of them.

Piston Honda wrote: Joined my gaming group at 17 and got a "F-U" like welcoming for about 4 years mostly no other reason other than I was young and the new guy.

And you suffered that for 4 years? Wow, Did the club have unlimited booze or ladies of negotiable affection to hand?

matphat wrote:I have absolutely no hate for the young gamer.
It's a fact of life that a 40 yr old and a 15 yr old have no business trying to act like peers.
If I'm interacting with a 15 yr old, its because I'm his mentor or his relative, otherwise our culture, experiences, and outlook are too different for it to be beneficial for either of us.

This, but I'm in my 50s and have grandkids that age........................

I'm 13, My army is well painted, I read the rulebook for a month, and I always tend to use the WYSIWYG.
I'm probably the youngest at our club. Haven't won a single game but got atleast a draw.
I know there is this "hate" going on for younglings in the game/hobby but aren't there some unlike that attitude? I probably earned some respect from the other players at my FLGS. Usually in their 20s though. I usually stay silent and watch other players play around 1500-2500 points of 40k or fantasy. Minding what units that can nerf my marines/tau. When I first came to the club everyone was friendly/helpful. An sm player let me borrow some of his minis so we can play a 1k game.
I get the hate thread on the younglings. Disrespectful,cheaters,whiners, and other nasty things but there are some okay ones?

Just my 2 cents

Chowderhead wrote:You know what, Matty?

Next time you're in NE, or I'm in the UK, we need to have a game.

It would be terrifying, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only 40K game ever to have a bodycount, but it would be glorious.

Ill let you know next time I'm over that way, I said Id take the missus to New York and Boston this summer.

Took my Dark Eldar to the shop for the first time. It's been month's since i've played 40k. And I generally find several of the younger gamers at my club very annoying. There is a group of four that's volume gets -really- loud. And the fellow whom I played with would every five minutes. Go over to the other table and see what the before mentioned group was doing. Not even bloody playing but rambling about some anime they watch.

However a pair of the younger gamers are quite polite. Can focus unless their peers are constantly yakking. And play a mean green tide.

We have a couple young gamers at my store 1 is actually a frelling serious fantasy player 1. who plays 40k but he seems to be att the store more because his brother is there. and a few others who come and go. they all do the wandering away thing and it bugs me.

but that said if you want respect i think a few key steps always work
1. Play fairly and don't rage
2. Paint your army (no one requires htis but when you playa fully painted army people respect the work you have put in.)
3. Be friendly talk to people
4. Ignore the trolls

DPBellathrom wrote:In my area they are hated for a good reason:

very immature, never bother to learn rules/look in their codex, act as if they can take anyone on and constantly ask stupid questions/dont shut the feth up/make stupid noises. I am obliged to tolerate them but damn are they annoying

About the rules i agree. Was gaming against a 14 year old and he shouted at me now i am gonna use my missile launcher at you! And i asked at him. ''Frag or krak?'' And he looked at me with a face that said what the feth are those 2 things. Maybe its just because that the majority of my friends are either 2 years older then me or non existent but i do actually understand it a little. But some people just say i hate kids because they are kids and when i ask him why he just says ALL kids are impolite. And with a pretty angry face i reply that he should get his facts straight and he walks away saying that im just a kid. Honestly if you like the hobby kid or not you should either like painting or gaming allot. Otherwise i shamefully admit that you just don't like the hobby enough.
I suck at painting but i try. But i learned almost all the rules and all the tau rules in around a month. And when gaming i wont need a lesson except when it comes to the finer arts of the game. But then again the gamers with who i play are prepared to learn me tactics because i am polite.

I really wish people would understand the meaning of the word "hate" since it's probably entirely too strong a term to use in 99% of the cases it's used in. I'd classify the general view of younger players isn't "hate" but rather "moderate irritation". Some of this viewpoint is supported by the fact that many younger gamers are fairly irresponsible, forgetful, or immature. I can't say I wasn't one or all of these things at different times myself, but some people can't handle that. I personally wouldn't have a problem playing with a 15 year old kid (that's when I started after all) as long as they weren't a total spaz.

I'm a young gamer. But compared to the other kids my age (12-15), I'm glad they don't treat me like that. The Warhammer/40k games seems to be geared more tword the older people who have longer attention span. For some reason most people treat me with more respect right off the bat than others. Also I won a few competitions during special celebrations which probably helped

Anyone who hates younglings clearly isn't cooking them properly.

/\lol

As a 15 year old I find it strange. I can see if the kid is an aggravating little punk. But I think we should get a chance to prove ourselves first. Not get kicked to the curb on first sight for something like age.

Mastiff wrote:Anyone who hates younglings clearly isn't cooking them properly.

Exalted

True there is stereotyping and prejudice but that weeds out the people who want instant gratification, and the one s who actually wants to play.

I have no issue with younger gamers, it's even enjoyable sometimes to help someone learn how to play, my issue is their parents. Trust me, after you've endured some psycho-mum ranting at you for twenty minutes and calling you a paedophile for giving their 14 year old a "good game" handshake, you'll be much less eager to game against anyone under 18 too.

Great White wrote:/\lol

As a 15 year old I find it strange. I can see if the kid is an aggravating little punk. But I think we should get a chance to prove ourselves first. Not get kicked to the curb on first sight for something like age.

I agree, everyone (regardless of age, gender, race, etc.) is entitled to a chance to prove themselves.

[quote=[So]Rice]If you are a younger gamer and want to be treated like everyone else, paint your armies. Although I was (and still am) rubbish at the game, first tournament I went to, I showed up with this:



I won best painted army, but I needed a TON of help with the rules and non of my opponents got mad with me or anything.

I havent really experienced any hate towards me, Me being fifteen. Actually at my gaming store the guy there is constantly talking to me and giving me advice.

However, one of my older friends who was just getting back into the hobby wasent familiar to the rules and they just told him to leave. I geuss it depends all on how well you know the game. xP

In my small circle of gaming buddies at my LGS, I have yet to see real "hate" for younger gamers or even new gamers. I joined the store at 18 (so no not really a kid but still quite a bit younger than the other players and I was new to the hobby.) and I was met with some really nice guys and here a few months later I tend to attract a little bit of a crowd when I go in. Lots of friendly banter and gaming going on. The thing that tends to bug me (and not even all that much at this point) are players, regardless of age, doing most of what has already been said. The only other one that drives me nuts is gamers (or anyone) who swears constantly. I know it's my personal decision to try to not swear and I don't expect the same out of everyone else, but when they don't even name their units but just replace the name with an expletive it tends to get on my nerves. Especially since I feel for any of the parents with (well mannered) kids that are just coming in to buy some cards.

Really, how you are being treated is a direct result of how you are acting. I'm currently 22, but have been a fairly mature person all of my life in regards to "spaz" or "attention span". However, that is not just it. Something my father taught me when I was very young is your attitude and how you handle yourself is everything when it comes to respect. If you can handle yourself at an equal level as the person you are attempting to gain respect from, than it will come naturally. If people's interpretation of you is that you are a bright lad with a good head on your shoulders you will find mass amounts of respect as people are taking you seriously, and accessing your worth by your actions and discussions. However, if people's interpretation of you is that you are just a snot nosed little kid than you are going to be treated that way, even if "when game time comes" you are just as well behaved as anyone else.

What I talked about above is also one reason why adults prefer to play with adults. It is a natural part of adult life to "have" to act a certain way, whether it be work or around a social authority. Younger kids on the other hand typical respond to such situations with a naturally rebellious attitude, wanting to "be themselves" and going way overboard with it. This translates easily into when the time comes to play a semi-serious game with strategy. An Adult will easily be able to adapt to the situation, keep their cool, and act how they obviously are expected too. However, it's a crap shoot when you are dealing with kids. They may understand and act accordingly, they may not understand, or worse they may understand and choose the opposite because they don't like being "controlled".

Just ensure that your attitude when, at all times, around your FLGS relates to exactly how you want to be treated and you will get the respect you deserve. However, if you are hitting many walls when you are at your FLGS with being accept you may want to take a step back and access your own behavior...maybe something you are doing is causing it (even if it doesn't seem a big deal to you).

I'll play against anyone provided they follow a few simple rules.

1) At least have a general idea how the game is played
2) Focus on the game and try not to get distracted
3) If you don't know what you're doing, warn me before hand and I'll be happy to walk you through things (If you don't then I turn into a bloodletter and we don't like that)
4) If you have friends/fam/whoever with you - Tell them to keep their traps shut (Ties into rule 2 but whatever)

If we can get through all of those then I'll play against you. I don't care if you're a man/woman/thing gay/lesbo/bi/Tzeetch white/black/red/yellow/pink plastic models die the same no matter the general.

It's a case by case basis for me. Some kids are cool and fun to play, others just annoy me. Of course, kids with psycho moms need not apply. I'm just gonna skip that one, thanks.

I know many people that cant stand young ones ( 7-13) because they give them a hard time.
Yet Im perfectly fine with them since they all follow one simple rule.

They either respect you and do everything you say
or they dont and give you a hard time.

I was a kid when I started playing 40k 25 years ago or so.

My friends and I did not exhibit the behavior kids do now. I think it was to a large part that there weren't GW stores in the USA back then and you had to track this game down at a game store and I believe there were fewer back then, so it was sort of self-filtering...

My problems with kids in game stores now are:
1) No respect for my property: they go thru my zipped up bag and take my models and books and supplies out, they damage my model usually by knocking the model with the tape measure to show that they are attacking it, and trying to walk away with my stuff

2) A passing interest in the game: don't know much about the rules or fluff

3) Freaking out when things don't go their way

Granted there are adults that are like this too, but there are fewer of them.

Also, back in 1987 it was a big deal when an adult wanted to play one of us kids and we respected our elders back then. I just don't see that much now.

I have less time and more responsibilities than a 10 to 14 year old and I'd rather play and adult with: painted models, knows the rules, understands the fluff, and won't be distracted during the game; I'd rather play them with my very limited play time.

Somebody is going to chime in and say the children are our future. Sure, but my friends and I did it on our own with very little aide from the adults in the game store so why can't the kids now-a-days do the same?

Also, I don't want to be your babysitter.

We're advancing science and technology at an unparalleled pace throughout history, but much like the Imperium, our culture is becoming stagnant and less capable of supporting these new responsibilities. I agree that in my short time on this earth, every generation after mine seems to be getting more and more immature and we seek instant gratification more often through outlets that do not support creativity and imagination in the same ways as music, art, and literature has. "Idiocracy" is more prevalent than ever, because our pleasures can be given to us quicker and in more powerful doses than before without any responsibility or even work. In doing so we lose interest in these hobbies because of the time investment required to achieve success. It's the same thing all over the place, when we don't have to work hard for something, we no longer appreciate it's value.

Frigging cell phones. That's all I have to say.

mattyrm wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:You know what, Matty?

Next time you're in NE, or I'm in the UK, we need to have a game.

It would be terrifying, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only 40K game ever to have a bodycount, but it would be glorious.

Ill let you know next time I'm over that way, I said Id take the missus to New York and Boston this summer.

Time and a Place.

It'll be DakkaDakka greatest Battle Report ever.

Davylove21 wrote:And Pokemon cards used to be awesome but now they're just a sad reminder of what used to be good and pure in the world.

Hold the phone - at no point has anything to do with Pokemon been awesome, let alone good and pure...

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Yodhrin wrote:I have no issue with younger gamers, it's even enjoyable sometimes to help someone learn how to play, my issue is their parents. Trust me, after you've endured some psycho-mum ranting at you for twenty minutes and calling you a paedophile for giving their 14 year old a "good game" handshake, you'll be much less eager to game against anyone under 18 too.

Did that really happen?
And How do i feel about kid gamers. Not sure, I have met some that have destroyed me.
All in all its the person.

Alas it did, a couple of years back; I'd never attended that particular LGS before(and haven't since), but after the fact I was told by the manager that the poor kid's mum insisted on hovering about the store whenever he went, to keep an eye on him. Too much time spent reading the old Daily Fail I suspect.

I've got no problem playing anyone, regardless of age. It's maturity level that determines whether I would play someone or not.

However, experience has shown me that the younger crowd (especially at the flgs) lack maturity (obivously - they are still growing up and learning the worldly ways).

When I got back into the hobby about a 2yrs ago the first question I asked was "Is there a mature gaming group around I could jump into?" The guys I've met since jumping back in (some from this very forum) have been awesome. All around the same age (25-40).

Simply because I would rather hang out with people my own age to relax and have a drink with as well as throw some dice over well-painted/converted armies.

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old

And therein is the problem, unless one of your parents is there with you. People do not appreciate being forced to watch someone else's kid during their free time.

I'm also fairly young. I've noticed that the adult gamers in my group will respect you if you play well and know what you are doing. I've found that if your playing against a good person, you get double respect points for beating them.

People do not appreciate being forced to watch someone else's kid during their free time.

He's 15... do 15 year olds need 'minded' in the USA? In the UK at least a child requires no supervision unless he's being put at risk (which I don't think really includes being left at a games shop for a few hours).

While I'd rather play someone who plays well and in a sporting manner than otherwise, I don't mind the odd game against someone who hasn't perhaps got a good grasp on the rules (a group that would include some under 18s but also many over 18s) and I'm prepared to suffer through the odd game where for whatever reason my opponent sees the need to indulge in some rules bending (which again can include kids but also, more sadly, a certain sort of adult be they new to the game or not). In the latter case I find that often the younger players benefit from playing someone who's prepared to abide by the rules regardless and they quite often adapt their behaviour accordingly even without being openly challenged on any shennanigans.

Obviously people can refuse to play anyone they wish for whatever reasons they wish but personally I'm prepared to cut kids some slack and locally they're not really much of a problem compared to a couple of late-teen/20-somethings who are rather more prone to 'elastic' play and tantrum.

DemetriDominov wrote:We're advancing science and technology at an unparalleled pace throughout history, but much like the Imperium, our culture is becoming stagnant and less capable of supporting these new responsibilities. I agree that in my short time on this earth, every generation after mine seems to be getting more and more immature and we seek instant gratification more often through outlets that do not support creativity and imagination in the same ways as music, art, and literature has. "Idiocracy" is more prevalent than ever, because our pleasures can be given to us quicker and in more powerful doses than before without any responsibility or even work. In doing so we lose interest in these hobbies because of the time investment required to achieve success. It's the same thing all over the place, when we don't have to work hard for something, we no longer appreciate it's value.

"Instant gratification"-Demetri
"Any accomplishment requires constant energy and constant work"

Thing is though, it is a 50-50 tradeoff.

50 %, because playing games with kids is not one of the best experiences, especially when they overtly just psuh into the game area, plop down a greay horde, then expect to table all comers, then get all butthurt when they are sent packing.

But.

50% because those same PITA's are your next generation of gamer coming up much in the same way as we did ourselves, sans manners. Manners is relative, as well. Main thing is that you play them, teach them in the peramiters of your game club social norms, and hold thier feet to the the fire when they commit various acts of Faux Pas. ( Same as when you came up, you got your ears pinned back every once inawhile, but on the whole the game area eather taught you that you liked gaming, or drove you to other avenues, like tagging, shoplifiting, being a general jackass, or whatever they call it these days.

A kid comes in on gaming, the least you can do is put it out there that you want to teach them if they want to learn- But if they want to act the fool there are ways to deal with that as well.

It isn't so much of a question of "Hate", but a question of- THESE days, most adults don't want anything to do with kids based on they do not feel like ending up on the 6:00 news for some sort of perv stuff or altercation that is going to get them hemmed up with johnny law. Myself, I could take kids in the shop or leave them.

I'd rather meet your moms.

I think that Grot has said exactly what needs to be said.

Except for the "I want to meet your moms" part.

THESE days, most adults don't want anything to do with kids based on they do not feel like ending up on the 6:00 news for some sort of perv stuff or altercation that is going to get them hemmed up with johnny law

Maybe. More likely I think is that gamers, who are often not very outgoing anyway, sometimes don't really know how to deal with kids and often have unrealistic expectations coupled with low tolerance, coupled with the fact that as leisure time has expanded, adults seem more focused on its quality rather than the mere fact it exists (which isn't by any means unreasonable in my view) and playing kids is seen as a 'waste of time' (or more likely to be a waste of time).

Mind you when I was younger (14-24, say) I don't think I ever played wargames against anyone who was more than a couple of years older or younger than me, though that was perhaps partly because the opportunities just weren't there.

Who said anything about younger gamers? The local MTG crowd, which is mostly college age guys and older, is louder than the local Pokemon crowd that meets at the same FLGS. Seriously, you cannot hear yourself think over all of the cursing, trash-talking and raging that goes on during Friday Night Magic. Pretty much everyone other than the MTG crowd stays miles away from the FLGS on Friday nights.

_Tim?

Well I don't mind loudness. Actually I rather enjoy the excitement and craziness that goes on with the 40k gamers. At my LGS the 40k players expect eachother to get into the game and be animated. That's kind of why I took 40k over FoW. Flames tends to be quite and all the guys are prepping tourney lists. Whereas 40k is expected to have shouts of "WAAAAGH!" or "Blood for the Blood God!" Quite amusing really

What is with all of the cliques in game stores? It is not only about younglings. There are all kinds of cliques, even when there are relatively few people. You have the golden daemon painters, the speed painters, the scenery makers, the power gamers, TFG, video gamers, goths, ex military, kids, etc.

Gamers act like a bunch of teenage girls, gossiping behind peoples backs, putting people down, etc. They just can't seem to get along with many other gamers.

The only solution is to hate the haters. Oh wait that won't work. Well, it looks like in the future there will only be war.

There are all kinds of cliques

True... or at least true that there will always be sub-groups within any larger group (and that includes groups with a membership as small as 3) where some members will be closer than others for any number of reasons. This can often come across as cliquery even when no clique actually exists. But it's just life, really. Locally I think i'm perceived as being in a 'tournament gamers' clique by some of my GW shop regulars and as a 'ringer (for want of a better term)' by some of my local 40K club members... part of a clique in one, outside the clique in the other. In truth in neither case do I think a proper clique (an exclusive selective grouping) exists.

Cliques are a pretty common thing everywhere. It is hard to have a regular meeting group (in any field) that get very well acquainted that do not appear to be a clique.

This is not usually intentional rather the perception of those outside it.

Hey man it happens but know this. If you start playing the game (i mean the right way) you will earn their respect. Of course beating them with in the rules and pointing out when they dont get a magjor rule right (you'd be surprised on how many times i've caught people) You will start to earn their repsect. Now i know this because i am 16 and I have been playing since 4th (for you math guys i was in 6th grade) I am now proud to say that show me a adult in the game and I will not only give him a run for his money but will beat him more than likely. In the last uear i have been wrong on 2 rules total. Now my that comes from sitting on the toliet reading codexs and rule books. (good idea for you to try. Now I belive i am not your normal 16 year old. I have already starte to look at colleges includeing visting them. I have also go in and talked with recruiters on Army ROTC stuff. So if your are responable you will gain their respect. A good qoute i try to live my life by is
"Respect takes a life time to earn but, a second to loose it" -Brain Wadsworth (5th grade teacher of mine) Also if you live by these rules you will gain their respect for they will make shure you follow the rules and are a nice person to play against or with. H.D.C. (Honor, Duty, Country)

Cliques happen everywhere.
You can't avoid them.
It's part of the human need to "belong" to a group, and the root of all tribalism. Those who are like us and those who are not. Many cultures do this - and they even have names for it.

Commonly, their name for their own group is "of the people" and the others are "not of the people".

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

I feel you my russian friend. I am often picked on for playing "cheese" and that it is because I am so young.
The fact of the matter is that we are the new generation and they need to realise that we are going to be replacing them at somepoint regardless.
Just remind them that they were our age at one point and if they still dont listen then they are just behind a thick wall of egotism. We all go through newbie phases just some have easy and some have it hard. One possible reason however is that they may think you will drop out of the hobby in short time.

spaceelf wrote:What is with all of the cliques in game stores? It is not only about younglings. There are all kinds of cliques, even when there are relatively few people. You have the golden daemon painters, the speed painters, the scenery makers, the power gamers, TFG, video gamers, goths, ex military, kids, etc.

Gamers act like a bunch of teenage girls, gossiping behind peoples backs, putting people down, etc. They just can't seem to get along with many other gamers.

The only solution is to hate the haters. Oh wait that won't work. Well, it looks like in the future there will only be war.
"in the future there will only be war"
I see what you did there. Now where is my cat picture saying that????
Found it.....

I feel you my russian friend. I am often picked on for playing "cheese" and that it is because I am so young.

Or, alternatively, it is because you play cheese. Also, alternatively, those players weren't all asses when they were young. Or didn't bother the older, obviously more serious players.

i was a manager at a game store that my brother owned. i had to learn every game. including: pokemon and yugioh. from that point on i hated anyone younger then 14 as i just couldnt stand them for more then 5 mins. its different when your a gamer and you agree to play them. but when i have to run a tournament with a bunch of 15 yr old douches wearing skinny jeans, justin beiber haircuts, and bigger then normal glasses that have no lense in them, with flat rimmed hats and all of them have ipod headphones stuck in there ear, that cant carry on a conversation for more then 5 mins because of there adhd... well you get the point... if you had to endure that for about 4 hours of a MTG or yugioh tournament you will hate them too.

i started gaming when i was 12 and i was nothing like them. But ofcourse i was involved in sports and an army kid so any of that behavior wasnt tolerated or i get my butt chewed out by the coach or whooped by parents. lol.

Chowderhead wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:You know what, Matty?

Next time you're in NE, or I'm in the UK, we need to have a game.

It would be terrifying, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only 40K game ever to have a bodycount, but it would be glorious.

Ill let you know next time I'm over that way, I said Id take the missus to New York and Boston this summer.

Time and a Place.

It'll be DakkaDakka greatest Battle Report ever.

Might get me to actually read that section again.

I am 27, I don't profess to hate teenagers. However, what I will say is that the majority of teenagers are churlish, petty and very uninterested in the game. They wander away given a moments notice and they cheat like blazes regardless of whether you are a veteran and notice it or a new player.

Because that age group is so petty, I know of at least 3 stores where they have games night on a thursday night to dissuade all the teenagers from coming in to annoy the vets.

If you come in, I want you to behave, do hobby and don't mouth off at your opponent every time your deathstar unit gets hit.

Blood and Slaughter wrote: He's 15... do 15 year olds need 'minded' in the USA? In the UK at least a child requires no supervision unless he's being put at risk (which I don't think really includes being left at a games shop for a few hours).

He cannot drive, drink, vote or work. Just to be clear, dumping your kids off at a store "for a few hours" because you don't have the time or inclination to watch them is in no way acceptable.

Blood and Slaughter wrote:
Maybe. More likely I think is that gamers, who are often not very outgoing anyway, sometimes don't really know how to deal with kids and often have unrealistic expectations coupled with low tolerance, coupled with the fact that as leisure time has expanded, adults seem more focused on its quality rather than the mere fact it exists (which isn't by any means unreasonable in my view) and playing kids is seen as a 'waste of time' (or more likely to be a waste of time).

No. It is because we do not run a babysitting service, if you are too busy to watch your kids and leave them with some strangers perhaps you should have pulled out 15 years ago.

Necroagogo wrote:

Piston Honda wrote: Joined my gaming group at 17 and got a "F-U" like welcoming for about 4 years mostly no other reason other than I was young and the new guy.

And you suffered that for 4 years? Wow, Did the club have unlimited booze or ladies of negotiable affection to hand?

Well close to it.

I was awarded my OWN gaming table with built in cabinets and locks built by a couple of members. It is mine, can do anything and play anything on it. I call my table the black pearl. Spray painted flat back with a painted skull and cross bones on the center of the table with a Jolly Roger flag on one of the corners. It makes me feel special sine only 6 of the 50 some people who play at the shop on various days have their own table.

I let anyone play on it as long as they don't kick it or put drinks on it.

Which reminds me, got to screw in the cup holders I bought a couple years back for it.

matphat wrote:I have absolutely no hate for the young gamer.
It's a fact of life that a 40 yr old and a 15 yr old have no business trying to act like peers.
If I'm interacting with a 15 yr old, its because I'm his mentor or his relative, otherwise our culture, experiences, and outlook are too different for it to be beneficial for either of us.

As a person well into his 30s, Ill agree with this. Ive been on both ends of it, as the young noob, and the experienced adult gamer. When your young its hard to understand, but as you get older it just clicks and you realize why you were treated that way when you were young, and notice yourself doing it to younger folks. Outside of the parent/relative or teacher/mentor role things like gaming are best done with people closer to your own age.

This is very true of a more closed gaming group/club...as you will find yourselves being friends and active in things outside of just gaming.

we do not run a babysitting service

Which is fine because you don't need to babysit 15 year olds or indeed any under 18s/under 21s 'dumped' in your shop. In general kids are there because the want to be, they're not dumped -- if their parents were dancing attendance on them throughout, you'd really have to worry.

As an older player I try not to overgeneralize- each player is to be taken on their own merits.

This said, I've pretty consistently had these problems the younger players around here:

1. Texting when they should be paying attention to the game.
2. More interested in their buddies than the game.
3. Leaving the table and take forever to come back- often chatting with the staff instead of, oh I don't know, THEIR TURN.
4. Immediately losing interest in the game when their favorite unit dies.
5. Not knowing the rules.
6. Not bringing a written down army list.

This is bad behavior that can be found in any age group, but it seems to be rampant in the younger ones.

What age are we talking for young gamers? <15 I can understand, but as a gamer of 17 years old, I think (or at least hope) I am polite and respectful to older gamers. I find the younger crowd (that is, 14 or younger generally) to be quite annoying generally, but I think this is more to do with them not knowing rules, etc.

However, you cannot blanket everyone into one group. I know kids that are about 9 - 10 that are good painters, good gamers, and are not incredibly irritating. Sure, most of them are. But not all of them. There can always be an exception.

admiral9 wrote: I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

That cheese eh, sometimes it just isn't good enough! Stilton, Cheddar... you name it!

There's a lot of factors, and it isn't necessarily hate.

I'm one of the people who would much rather not play a younger gamer if there's a choice. For me it's mostly just how me, and the older crowd around, get into the game. We curse, and shout, and threaten, all in good fun and spirits.

But when I have to play a younger opponent, it's a much more calm and terse game. A lot of times I feel I can't bring the full weight of my army to bare because it feels so much more... ish against someone younger and generally newer to the game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely willing to help new people learn, including younger gamers. And there are some exceptions, but generally the overall tone of the games I have against a younger player make me prefer to spend my gaming time playing against someone else.

I have no problem playing someone younger. You guys often play as good as the rest of the people my age. I don't care what your army looks like. The only request or expectation that I have; and this goes for every opponent, is that you are not a jerk. Everyone should be treated equal imo.

I think most hate for younger gamer comes from the fact that many older gamers view us as immature. Although some younger gamers can be very immature, judging all younger fans of wargames this way is just wrong. This is really one of those times when 1 apple ruins the bunch.

Because they all stink =]

There were four underage kids at our local FLGS until recently. I say that because one of them just hit 16 and got his driver's liscence, and we haven't seen him or his two buddies since. I presume they are off doing teenage things with the car now.

The youngest one - thirteen, I think - is a young lady who knows the rules pretty well and is well on the way to becoming a wicked tactician... when she puts her mind to it anyway. But she had an unfair advantage, her dad plays too and they have been playing (and painting) together for several years.

The other trio was a mixed batch. The oldest one was a decent enough player, but had all the tactical finesse of a thrown brick. Playing WOC suited him well. The middle one was a bit more scattered, but a nice kid. The youngest... I got the impression he played WFB because the other two did, not because he wanted to. He was a real pain to deal with.

As everything in life does, it comes down to individuals.

I don't like younger gamers because they are walking reminders of my own mortality.

I game with younger gamers all the time. SOME are fine. Some are a pain in the arse. The same could be said for the older gamers.
AND, just BTW, no one just gets respect because they are older. You give someone respect if they earn it. There are plenty of older people who have not the slightest sense of what it means to behave and treat others with respect. sure, good behavior is learned over time (usually), but that does not mean that you have to be nice to someone who is older than you. thats a crock.
You give what you get. Show up. Model the behaviors that you wish to receive from your opponent, and if they still act like they are better than you just because they are older, well... that just show a level of immaturity that is unbefitting of anyone. especially an older more experienced gamer.
Some of my favorite gamers are a lot younger than me. Just saying.

Heh.

Maturity is not a function of chronological age.

I know some very immature 40 year olds.
I know some quite mature 18 year olds.

chromedog wrote:Heh.

Maturity is not a function of chronological age.

I know some very immature 40 year olds.
I know some quite mature 18 year olds.

What he said

GW is *not* free daycare.

That is why I despise younglings.

Despite probably being a 'youngling' to many members of this board

Henners91 wrote:GW is *not* free daycare.

That is why I despise younglings.

I started when I was 8, and actively participated in games night when I was 12. My brother, 3 1/2 years older than me, would take me by train to our closest GW to play every week, and get picked up by our parents at closing. And that's what we did - participate in store wide games.

Is that free daycare? We weren't lumped in the store while they went shopping, we went on our own time. I was definitely a youngling, and one of the youngest there.

I don't know whether to say you're in a minority, since I avoid GWs like the plague, but in the time I *have* actually spent there, the dominant image I took away was of loud-mouthed little bints being left by momma without any intention of actually buying anything or being constructive.

Do you actually see them being dropped off by their parents for the day?

Another point to consider is they may be doing it because the kid wants to play some games. That doesn't make it parents treating GW like daycare, it makes it young kids wanting to play games with their stuff, and parents not wanting to stand around doing nothing for hours.

I guess I really don't get the irrational hate for younger players. Everyone I know started when they were young, just like me, and I haven't actually met anyone who got into the hobby later in life. I'm not saying they don't exist, just my experience.

I don't play at my local GW because it's terrible. I still get young kids at my FLGS, though not as many (most likely due to it being very far from any shopping areas - not because it's hard to use the place as 'free daycare', but likely a child safety concern). Most of the kids I see playing are accompanying their parents who are also playing. I don't see this at GW since all my local stores (even the bunker near where I work) are tiny. Again, it's not an issue. They're just miniature hobbyists.

Maybe I have been lucky that my FLGS has only a few younglings for 40k, but they actually aren't too bad ... no worse than some of the oldlings.

I mostly play Warmahordes, and the kids I've met that play it have generally been pretty cool. What I'm interested more in is this:

Piston Honda wrote:I was awarded my OWN gaming table with built in cabinets and locks built by a couple of members. It is mine, can do anything and play anything on it. I call my table the black pearl. Spray painted flat back with a painted skull and cross bones on the center of the table with a Jolly Roger flag on one of the corners. It makes me feel special sine only 6 of the 50 some people who play at the shop on various days have their own table.

I let anyone play on it as long as they don't kick it or put drinks on it.

Which reminds me, got to screw in the cup holders I bought a couple years back for it.

. . . how the heck did you rate THAT?

I'm 21, I've been playing for over a decade and have only once come across a person (out of probably several hundred) that I would never play again because they were immature. I play at home or at my nearest GW, but I don't believe my store could be so disproportionately well behaved compaired to what some of you guys are saying.

Great White wrote:I think we should get a chance to prove ourselves first. Not get kicked to the curb on first sight for something like age.

This guy is 100% correct, how can a person possibly prove that they're not as emotionally and socially stunted as a lot of you seem to assume if you wont even give them a chance?

In my defense, you're all young to me.

I was never a child gamer.
So I neither know the viewpoint nor understand it.
I started gaming with mates my age (18), when all the gamers around me were that age or older (in the late 80s there WERE no "child gamers" who attended conventions or tournaments). There were no child gamers playing 40k or battletech or anything else at that time where I lived - so I'll assume if there were, they kept to themselves.

I was also a well behaved gamer (I didn't touch people's stuff without first asking and receiving permission), didn't pester people during games and paid attention where required when I started. I have seen these traits in some younger gamers around me now, but by and large, they are outnumbered by the screeching, attention deficit individuals and their instant gratification needs.

I don't hate them. I just don't associate with them. Mainly because a 43 year old "hanging out" with under 18s is creepy (from both sides).

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Xeriapt wrote:Theres plenty of younger gamers at the club I go to (probably ages 12-15 I imagine) most are fine to game with.

The only things that annoy me is if they have half an army proxied with anything they can find, or they just dont know how to play at all, but to be fair everyone has to start somewhere.

Lastly and least commonly they have some soft drink and get all hyper then its just hard to play a game while they bounce off the walls.

I know that I've been yelled at a couple of times for leaving a game, as I'm checking my Blood Sugars.

If I have, Hypoglycemia, I'll act quite hyper, which has gotten me yelled at before

Thats an excuse. Do what you have to to act properly. No one when care when you enter Real Life (TM). If you were an employee who bounced around like an idiot you wouldn't last long.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fafnir wrote:I just hate kids. Has nothing to do with whether they're on the other side of the table or not.

Still, I do my best to treat them politely and with the respect I would want them to give me. Just because you dislike someone doesn't mean you can't be civil.

I don't, not any more, but then again I no longer play where kids are present. I can barely stand 20 year olds at this point, and they give me a wide berth. Of course, at this point I'm pretty wide, so they have to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

matphat wrote:I have absolutely no hate for the young gamer.
It's a fact of life that a 40 yr old and a 15 yr old have no business trying to act like peers.
If I'm interacting with a 15 yr old, its because I'm his mentor or his relative, otherwise our culture, experiences, and outlook are too different for it to be beneficial for either of us.

This. Plus you have the additional fact that, past a certain age, playing a kid gets into the pervy sweaty old guy by the keg level.
This does not apply to teching them the game etc. or if there is a real heavy mix of younger older gamers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chromedog wrote:I don't hate them. I just don't associate with them. Mainly because a 43 year old "hanging out" with under 18s is creepy (from both sides).

Agreed.

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

Please understand that you are the kind of young gamer I would happly play against. However, there are many young gamers who have the attention spans of gnats,a certain deviance from neurotypical behavior, rage issues, and the inability to do things such as count. If you are not one of these, then you are welcome to my store and table any time. When people are complaining about young gamers, they are not talking about you. Unless they know you personally.

When I was little, I found it very easy to interact with adults.

I was fairly quiet, always had an excellently painted army and a lot of patience and a high attention span.

If you're young and don't have some or any of the above, there's your problem.

When someone mentioned a "younger gamer" I agree that chronological age does not equal playability. I have played some teenage gamers who are fantastic, others are transwrecks. I started this game when I was 12-13 and went to my first tournment when i was 16. I was respectful of opponent and learned a lot. I don't think anyone regretted playing me. I also wasn't a push over as I really learned competitive play and tactics fast. 16 years later i'm still learning, those younger players teach me things all the time.

However, I do not believe that anyone under the age of 16 should really be at a tournment. I had the pleasure of playing a teenager this last weekend. He beat me fair and square his demons vs my orks. Both lists competitive. It was one of the most enjoyable games I have had for a very very long time. He knew the rules, game was smooth. It was great.

Same tournment, I played a 8 year old. He should not have been in a tournment. He had no attention as was expected. Ironically he had a very good Ork army list, with some poorly put together models where I had no idea what was what. I likely would not play him again. I didn't want to play him in the first play, as I knew I needed full battle points to place, and was nervious about inflicting a severe beating. He knew the basics. But I caught him several times rolling more dice, not removing casualties, arguing rules he had no understanding of. I have no blame for him as he is young and still learning things that need to be applied to the game, such as grammer, reading, writing, which have to be applied.

Those are the only opponent I do not want to play very young children. 16+ years olds, perfectly fine. Most of them can spank and adult easily and even be a better sport about it.

chromedog wrote: that age or older (late 80s)

i

m00ndragon wrote:.

i started gaming when i was 12 and i was nothing like them. But ofcourse i was involved in sports and an army kid so any of that behavior wasnt tolerated or i get my butt chewed out by the coach or whooped by parents. lol.

Same here. And i am still a young kid. If i acted like that my father would be over me harder than a drill sargent on a new pvt.

Gorechild wrote:I'm 21, I've been playing for over a decade and have only once come across a person (out of probably several hundred) that I would never play again because they were immature. I play at home or at my nearest GW, but I don't believe my store could be so disproportionately well behaved compaired to what some of you guys are saying.

I think I know who you're talking about...

I hate rotten kids in any setting, FLGS included. I am an equalist.

From age 3 to 18, people are persona non grata to me. Age 3 because that's when they stop being cute and start being annoying...

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

You answered your own question without knowing it.

You yourself are always polite, so it is easy for you not to understand.

I hate kids who run amok the shop being terps who grab your model, butt into conversations, etc. etc. etc.

Basically rude little snots whose parents taught them no manners. If they are going to be such twerps, then I feel no need to hold back and treat them rudely.

wpago wrote:

m00ndragon wrote:.

i started gaming when i was 12 and i was nothing like them. But ofcourse i was involved in sports and an army kid so any of that behavior wasnt tolerated or i get my butt chewed out by the coach or whooped by parents. lol.

Same here. And i am still a young kid. If i acted like that my father would be over me harder than a drill sargent on a new pvt.

Thank your parents for making you into decent human beings. There's a lot of individuals out there who haven't had that advantage.

Being 40, I don't mind kids that are respectful and love the hobby and such.

Like anything its the disrespectful at any age, the power gamer, the obnoxious ones, I don't care what age they are, I dislike them and do not want to play anything with them or show them anything in the hobby.

I was horrible when I was young. Tantrums and ragequits, but we only gamed in my home.

So, luckily for all, I left gaming for ~20 years, and I now know what a ragequit kid might be up against.
I'll play anyone, but the club I play at only has kids there who attend with their gamer parents.

To be honest I don't play in a GW any more (being lucky enough to have a good club and FLGS nearby), and the club is 16+ only. The more reserved environment outside of GW I think cows the more immature people into falling in line, and curbing their childish behaviour.

That being said, as others have pointed out, I have seen some incredibly immature behaviour by adults at time, mainly by those who forget that wargames are meant to be fun and are just a game, and it's not actually real-life soldiers that are dying at your behest. I suppose as Van Helsing would say, those 'with the child brain'.

So really my only bad experience of younglings tends to be some of the kids who come on to this forum and others like it - the ones who have known only GW, and still think the sun shines out of its nether regions. When they come onto the forum some cannot handle the bubble of their 'perfect GW world' being burst, by criticism of finecast for instance, and lash out - it's something we see periodically in the Dakka Discussions section, usually someone with around 50 posts who goes mental and then gets banned for a short time. Hopefully some of those players stop supping from the teet of GW, realise they are just a company like anything else, and are also made aware of the much larger miniature and wargaming world that exists out there. And perhaps have a more fulfilling experience because of it.

-Loki- wrote: They're just miniature hobbyists.

Love that description

chromedog wrote:I was never a child gamer.


I don't hate them. I just don't associate with them. Mainly because a 43 year old "hanging out" with under 18s is creepy (from both sides).

so i guess being a game store owner is creepy, as is being a dad, a coach, a teacher etc.

You forgot Preists as well........oh wait a minute?!?!

As a kid, I can see where the hate comes om but it seems like stereotyping. Yes some kids are idiots but there are lots of decent ones that play well. I got pretty much blanked for a year aged 12 even though I was attentive and had a fully painted army (old GK's to boot) at my flgs and no one would play me so I had to go to my local GW cos I couldn't be bothered with all the mindless hate that was spewed out at me. So now I have to put up with GW's staff trying to sell me half the store!!! Aargh

When i was a kid i was a massive, well jerk, at one point i said someone's move was a stupid, He then told me to get out(this is because i just watched and didnt play) He promptly apologized next week , as did I and we forgot about it. But still, kids may not have filters that tell them what is wrong.

I would put most my of the reasons kids are discriminated against is due to the lack of emotional control.

This is the main reason I avoid some coworkers, and people I meet as well.

Kids tend to shoot out their voices to be herd, throw fits when something happens negatively, show boat when something happens favorably, and tell lies to avoid consequence.

Just going off of experience with younger players, and the experiences we have make up our views and the stereotype that is young players.

Some older players do all of this as well, but more controlled; more grown up like.


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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Amongst other things, younger players:

1) attract enemy radar
2) generally don't wash
3) damage my models
4) make strange noises
5) listen to rubbish music at loud volumes
6) Point to a leman russ and ask is that a tank?
7) cheat and use loaded dice
8) Have their mothers next to them.

etc etc.

SO so true, EVERY SINGLE TEEN I have seen play or played against has tried to cheat to win, and after a year of calculus it is seriously silly to cheat a simple point system like 40k, or a measuring curve like 6, 12, 24, inches, and yes even loaded dice. Lack of Filters is big too, they could just shoot out insults like "idiot" or annoying questions like "is that a tank?"

Teenagers do stink. . . Shower before you leave the house... done...

When I was a “kid”, I was a bit much to handle, started gaming when I was 8 and now 24 almost 25. I stopped acting like a “kid” by the time I was 13 or 14 due to the older guys taking me in at the gaming store who were not the creepy stalky types who had jobs and college degrees which made me mature very quickly well maybe not quickly but still the same. I still go back time to time to the store though it’s not the same after being away for 5 years. Though when I do return time to time, I am still accepted like it was yesterday. I am mostly embarrassed due to the creepy stalky types who have not progressed and are still the same and maybe I have just developed an elitist attitude. I am constantly embarrassed when I go into a gaming store other than that one due to being ashamed if someone who I worked with saw me or ever came with me due to lack of gamers using proper hygiene or being morbidly obese (Not that there is anything wrong with that, that is their choice).

The “kids” who game today are just different then back then. I would never cheat and I had a vast knowledge of the rules, although to be honest age does not have anything to do with cheating, gaming mentalities or fully painted armies. So it is a conflicting answer. As stated above by another poster, that’s why I moved to FoW instead of GW, less rubbish to deal with and by far a better crowd.

I don't like playing with kids. They are usually broke and have slapped together armies. It was like when I played paintball, a bunch of
kids hanging out around the tournament players could ruin the experience.

They are not good generals (with few exceptions), and really don't add much value to the hobby, other than bringing in new $$
for GW.

I also don't like the effect they have on the game, as it encourages GW to make the game more "kiddy". See codex Necrons.

16 should be the minimum age, and you should have the resources to devote to the game.

chromedog wrote:Constantly leaving the table to check something else out.

Guilty...

But I was also going to say... "FINE, I'll HOLD IN MY EXCESSIVELY SMALL BLADDER"


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Darklight wrote:16 should be the minimum age, and you should have the resources to devote to the game.

This is crap, I'm 18, and I pump gas for a living. 80% of what I earn go's towards my uni fund and I barely have a means to buy models or hobby supplies. I really only get models on Birthdays and Christmases, and any spare money I have, which I rarely have. I only have about 60% of my models painted because of school, hockey and worrying about uni. But I think 60% is really good for the current state I'm in.

I am a very devoted wargamer, 50% of my spare time go's towards wargaming, the other half go's towards mates and such. So in short, I DO NOT have a means, but I am very devoted

Im gonna go ahead and say that the only thing i worry about younger players for is being beaten by them (not their fault) or having something stolen from me by one of them (their fault).

around our gaming group we have lots of younger players, sure they say stupid things sometimes, but so do the older players who should totally know that what they were saying was stupid. Kids also really get into the game which can be loads of fun. as long as they are polite and dont steal stuff i have no probs with younger gamers.

Lastly, the worst smelling gamers are usually the older ones. just saying

Poppabear wrote:

chromedog wrote:Constantly leaving the table to check something else out.

Guilty...

But I was also going to say... "FINE, I'll HOLD IN MY EXCESSIVELY SMALL BLADDER"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darklight wrote:16 should be the minimum age, and you should have the resources to devote to the game.

This is crap, I'm 18, and I pump gas for a living. 80% of what I earn go's towards my uni fund and I barely have a means to buy models or hobby supplies. I really only get models on Birthdays and Christmases, and any spare money I have, which I rarely have. I only have about 60% of my models painted because of school, hockey and worrying about uni. But I think 60% is really good for the current state I'm in.

I am a very devoted wargamer, 50% of my spare time go's towards wargaming, the other half go's towards mates and such. So in short, I DO NOT have a means, but I am very devoted

That is a big difference from a 12 year old loitering around the gaming tables. We have one kid, 17-18ish, that hangs around at 40K night. He thinks he is a 40K expert, and he doesn't even own an army.

I won't play them or acknowledge them. It is a waste of time.

Darklight wrote:I don't like playing with kids. They are usually broke and have slapped together armies. It was like when I played paintball, a bunch of kids hanging out around the tournament players could ruin the experience.

They are not good generals (with few exceptions), and really don't add much value to the hobby, other than bringing in new $$
for GW.

I also don't like the effect they have on the game, as it encourages GW to make the game more "kiddy". See codex Necrons.

16 should be the minimum age, and you should have the resources to devote to the game.

This is a conflicting sentence as yes there will be kids who have slapped together armys but a lot just ask their moms and dads to buy them stuff (and that is how GW get their $$, ££, etc).

I for one was one of these broke kids when I started but I never got my mom or dad to buy me anything (apert form birthdays christmas etc) most of the stuff I own I bought with my own money and soon I gradually got the sized army I wanted but You cant really say it all the little ones who are the ones with slapped together armys, some adults arwe in the same position and proxy armys all depend on the persons taste when fighting their opponent, also what do you mean by slapped togetther armys? like paperhammer and proxys? Also, you say the kids make the game more "kiddy" I disagree, as codex DE is a rather dark one and Chaos (daemons and traitors) is also a dark part of the 41st millenium. DE have hemoniculus which are rather dark and twisted abominations with very corrupt minds and slannesh and khorne are probably some of the darkest gods that have ever been put into Sci-Fi.

Just my two cents...

hotsauceman1 wrote:But still, kids may not have filters that tell them what is wrong.

Neither do adults. And some of the manbabies I've seen playing this game make full use of the lack of a filter on their mouth. Immaturity isn't limited to children.

I can understand people not wanting to play games against kids because the age gap, since it can come across as creepy. But anyone citing maturity as the reason needs to take a good, long look at the general adult crowd at an FLGS.

As a 14 (Week till 15) year old player I can understand in some ways why people do dislike child players, I have seen many annoying kinds of players the sorts who really shouldnt be playing, like those 7-8 year olds you say which I do agree, is a bit strange. But generalising that all kid gamers, which I have seen people doing in this thread, as crazy uncontrolled insane people in my humble opinion is very unfair and that I do dislike.

Not to sound a tool, but dont you have to be atleast 16 to be in the store without an adult, you know with the glues and knives.. I remeber gaming at about 14 and we had to have someone over 16 with us.

But to go along with the thread, i basically agree with the rest, hyperactive and easily distracted kids get on my nerves. Last time i was at GW id finished a game and told the lads i was going for a tab/cigarette, and the the kid mocked non-stop i was in a huff (i won so why i dont know) and when i got back got told he'd gone through my stuff and broke a decent number of models and ran.. so yeah.. a douche

I've never really had much of a problem with younger players. To be honest, most of the time I find myself playing against players who are half my age (one of the odd things that happens when you go from being the rare geek in a family to having the following generation populated largely by geeky family members), and most of the time they are able to focus and engage in a fun game.

On the flip-side, I've played against kids who can't shut up or quit checking Facebook long enough to finish out a turn. So it's a mixed bag.

Darklight wrote:

I also don't like the effect they have on the game, as it encourages GW to make the game more "kiddy". See codex Necrons.

Off topic. Der what? Collecting people in ghost arks to force them to conform, weapons that strip flesh from bone, wearing enimies flesh as a uniform. Sorry its not something id let my little kid read.

On topic. While we get the occasional bad egg my flgs is usually pretty great at eleminating the problem ones. Once you get banned from the store for a while they tend to learn.

I'm 12 (13 in 11 days). It can be a pain in the ar5e as well for us!
Many of the people at gw think all "younger" players act like doucebags, but in fact, for me, I most of the time play to improve my understanding of the game. Which can be very hard when no-one takes you seriously. That is why I go to gw rather than gaming clubs, because there are lots of people there in a similar position to me, who want to learn and game, rather than mess about, and the staff are very helpful.
That is why I do more of the painting and modelling than gaming.
Oh, and lots of the kids are spoilt little brats who get everything and anything bought for them, but some of us (me) actually save up hard earned cash, which helps to get a better understanding of saving, not just SPEND SPEND SPEND!! I WANT I WANT!!

sennacherib wrote:
so i guess being a game store owner is creepy, as is being a dad, a coach, a teacher etc.

Yep.

I think anyone who likes to hang around with children (including parents, btw) is a little odd. Yes, I even tell my friends (who are parents) this.
Not a parent, not going to be one (ever). Can't happen, don't care.

Had to do all that "working with children" police background check crap when my club WAS little more than a creche (12-16 year olds).
Don't miss it.
Like my club where it is. It has beer on tap and a refreshing shortage of under-18s (who can't afford the hobby anyway, and those that do will often give it up between 17 and 24 anyway as other interests compete for their attentions).

blood lance wrote:As a 14 (Week till 15) year old player I can understand in some ways why people do dislike child players, I have seen many annoying kinds of players the sorts who really shouldnt be playing, like those 7-8 year olds you say which I do agree, is a bit strange. But generalising that all kid gamers, which I have seen people doing in this thread, as crazy uncontrolled insane people in my humble opinion is very unfair and that I do dislike.

^^ THIS +1