So im going for something different here, I want to know who do you HATE/DISLIKE in the 40K Universe, it can be a character, chapter/Legion, etc. For me it has to be Iron Warriors for a start, after reading Dead Sky Black sun I had an amount of disgust for how they bred New CSM to fill their ranks, and im a HUGE Chaos fan hahaha. I have a dislike for the Blood Angels as well for how they Hunt Talos of The Night Lords in order to get back the Holy Relic Aurum. So I digress, who do you HATE/DISLIKE?

Draigo.

Dislike:
-The Tau
Hate:
-Space Wolves

Space Wolves, Black Templars, Ethereal Caste, Monodominant Inquisitors, Radical Inquisitors, Leman Russ

Apothecary8404Talos wrote:So im going for something different here, I want to know who do you HATE/DISLIKE in the 40K Universe, it can be a character, chapter/Legion, etc. For me it has to be Iron Warriors for a start, after reading Dead Sky Black sun I had an amount of disgust for how they bred New CSM to fill their ranks, and im a HUGE Chaos fan hahaha.

That's kinda the whole point, it's supposed to be horrifying and disgusting, they are after all *CHAOS* marines, that's pretty run of the mill stuff for them


As for what I really dislike, most loyalist SM fluff of recent years is really bad in general, be it Codex stuff or Black Library. Whether it is Mat Ward's stories that read like bad internet fanfic, Abnett's "yeah one tac squad can totally take on thousands of Dark Eldar at once and win", Reynold's "yeah, 10 billion well armed and equipped veteran guardsmen with plenty of forwarning on a heavily entrenched on a fortress world aren't considered a match for 6,000 CSM's", it all really just smacks of lazy fanservice, and the move away from the "psycho-lobotomized high tech super soldier warrior monk" to "knights in SPAAAACE" has not helped, with the visuals moving much more towards medieval knights with laurels, furs, eagles, etc and away from wires, pipes, spikes, servos, lenses, skulls, etc.

Also, yeah, as others mentioned, Space Wolves. They try far too hard to be too many contradictory things and come off looking extremely hypocritical and obnoxious for it, and arrogant in the extreme. As was brought up by another on these boards, they come off as Space Hipsters "oh we don't use psykers, they're bad, we have the native power of fenris, you're probably never heard of it." even though it's just them being wilfully ignorant. It also doesn't help that they're protrayed and have their rules written as "Marines+1"

I'm willing to say that Space Wolf-hate comes a close second to the Ultramarines...

Personally, I have several reasons:
1) The Burning of Prospero. The Emperor specifically ordered them to take Magnus into custody, not burn one of the most cultured worlds in the galaxy to ashes and destroy the Thousand Sons. Sure, Horus used his authority as Warmaster to change the orders, but for someone who was supposed to uphold and uphold the ideals of the Imperial Truth, Russ was a complete douche.
2) Hypocrisy. What exactly is this 'nature energy' of Fenris? How is it really different from other Librarian disciplines? The Space Wolves use of chants and shamanistic rituals doesn't really seem all that different from the Thousand Sons own cult system.
3) Simply put, Space Wolves and their Primarch are a bunch of rabid dogs. Just the way they act rubs me the wrong way.

Space Wolves. Nearly everything of them. The Vikings-theme, the wolves, the arrogance, the destruction of the Thousand Sons and so on...

I were supposed to not really like Tyranids and Necrons, but after a friend showed me their fluff I do not really mind them at all and I'm really beginning to like the MCs of the Tyranids

SW and Tyranids. Nids eat everything. They don't give a single _ about what they put in their mouths. Secondly, SW because they are just dogs tbh. Nothing special just OP CC monsters...

Diabolical13 wrote:Nids eat everything. They don't give a single _ about what they put in their mouths.

What an incredibly broad brush you have.

I dislike the Imperium because all they do is kill. They don't give a single _ about what they shoot at.

You can do that for any race and make them sound dull.

Tyranids aren't so bad. What I don't like though is the very idea of the Swarmlord. For the Hive Mind to have an 'avatar' seems too 'human' for me.

I really don't like Draigo because he defeated my favourite demon primarch, and I think that's a load of BS.

Also, Cato Sicarius, Marneus Calgar and Roboute Guilliman, though mostly Calgar. One chapter master cannot hold an orke horde for a night and day alone. 20 ork boys with choppa, nob with power claw on the charge will take Calgar and win.

Fralethepalewhale wrote:Draigo.

Wow. Draigo'd in one. /slowclap.

I hate/dislike hate threads.

This thread should end well.

pretre wrote:

Fralethepalewhale wrote:Draigo.

Wow. Draigo'd in one. /slowclap.

I hate/dislike hate threads.

This thread should end well.

It's funny cause of your sig. Just had to throw that in there...

I Hate Spezz marines, They are so Spezzial, their fluff sux and in roleplay they are OP.

Playing guardsmen is the gak!

I never quite liked the Space Wolves. The arrogance factor is part of it, but their whole flavor, to me, seems a bit too campy for the 40k world.

TermiesInARaider wrote:I never quite liked the Space Wolves. The arrogance factor is part of it, but their whole flavor, to me, seems a bit too campy for the 40k world.

Trust me, you're not the only one.

Top three hates in Dakka:
1) Ultramarines
2) Space Wolves
3) Matt Ward

I despise Abbadon. He's had 13 tries. Hes had goddamn Primarchs go with him. He's powered by all the gods. He's fething Horus!

And yet, none of it has ever worked. None of it.

/Sigh

Hate: People that say Failcost, Finecost, Failcrap and think they're being clever or original.

Dislike: Putting together a drop pod.

Tadashi wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:I never quite liked the Space Wolves. The arrogance factor is part of it, but their whole flavor, to me, seems a bit too campy for the 40k world.

Trust me, you're not the only one.

Top three hates in Dakka:
1) Ultramarines
2) Space Wolves
3) Matt Ward

I suppose the Ultramarines do have that 'pretty-boy' status going. They're basically the big-man-on-campus of the Space Marines, but in my opinion, they can definitely get the job done, and all in all, earn their reputation, if not their hype. The Space Wolves, however are just... Ugh. Russ was the angsty, raging teenager of the Primarchs, and his legion definitely inherited that.

Chowderhead wrote:I despise Abbadon. He's had 13 tries. Hes had goddamn Primarchs go with him. He's powered by all the gods. He's fething Horus!

And yet, none of it has ever worked. None of it.

/Sigh

You're assuming the goal of each one was to topple the Imperium and reach Terra. This is false. Abaddon's Black Crusades have all been baby steps building on each other. In general, he has accomplished his primary aims with each Black Crusade. With the Gothic War (12th) he seized the Blackstone Fortresses that he set out to take, and with the 13th, he stands ready to break the Cadian Gate and stands in the ascendancy in that conflict.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:It's funny cause of your sig. Just had to throw that in there...

That was kind of the point.

Tadashi wrote:
Top three hates in Dakka:
1) Ultramarines
2) Space Wolves
3) Matt Ward

You missed the real #1: Threads about those three topics.

Vaktathi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I despise Abbadon. He's had 13 tries. Hes had goddamn Primarchs go with him. He's powered by all the gods. He's fething Horus!

And yet, none of it has ever worked. None of it.

/Sigh

You're assuming the goal of each one was to topple the Imperium and reach Terra. This is false. Abaddon's Black Crusades have all been baby steps building on each other. In general, he has accomplished his primary aims with each Black Crusade. With the Gothic War (12th) he seized the Blackstone Fortresses that he set out to take, and with the 13th, he stands ready to break the Cadian Gate and stands in the ascendancy in that conflict.

Yeah.

I'm more disappointed on how his rules don't match his fluff at all.

kronk wrote:Hate: People that say Failcost, Finecost, Failcrap and think they're being clever or original.

Dislike: Putting together a drop pod.

Couldn't agree with you more, especially for the drop pod.

In my first game with my DA, I pick up my drop pod by its base, being all careful, and it literally falls apart in my hand.

His rules are fairly gak, but that's in large part because GW went through 3 different design philosophy phases in 3 years and the CSM book was right smack in the middle of that.

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:I never quite liked the Space Wolves. The arrogance factor is part of it, but their whole flavor, to me, seems a bit too campy for the 40k world.

Trust me, you're not the only one.

Top three hates in Dakka:
1) Ultramarines
2) Space Wolves
3) Matt Ward

I suppose the Ultramarines do have that 'pretty-boy' status going. They're basically the big-man-on-campus of the Space Marines, but in my opinion, they can definitely get the job done, and all in all, earn their reputation, if not their hype. The Space Wolves, however are just... Ugh. Russ was the angsty, raging teenager of the Primarchs, and his legion definitely inherited that.

To be honest, the Ultramarines aren't so bad in my opinion, even if Calgar is a bit OP. The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense...perhaps it would be easier to say why people don't like them.

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

The black Templars, because they're just like the glorious Word Bearers, but they get away with their overzealous ways because the emperor died

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I don't mind that, but their attitude needs fixing.

Samus_aran115 wrote:The black Templars, because they're just like the glorious Word Bearers, but they get away with their overzealous ways because the emperor died

Finally. Someone understands...

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I don't mind that, but their attitude needs fixing.

I'm actually quite curious about this.

What part of their attitude do you think needs fixing?

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I don't mind that, but their attitude needs fixing.

I'm actually quite curious about this.

What part of their attitude do you think needs fixing?

Well, they have a massive drinking problem for one...

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

Still Bland. Still boring.

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I don't mind that, but their attitude needs fixing.

I'm actually quite curious about this.

What part of their attitude do you think needs fixing?

The egotism and stubborn obstinacy. Basically, the Space Wolves are the raging, rebellious teenager of the Space Marines. They think they're better than everyone, and never listen to anyone's advice.

I dislike the Blood Angels. Their fluff is terrible and it always has been. I hate their current codex because everything is blood this and blood that. They're way OTT in terms of special rules and all their special characters are just annoying to play against. Did I mention the fluff?

I dislike GK. Only because all of the GK people I've played against have been jerks.

Dislike:
Grey Knights
Hate:
Ordo Hereticus
Tau
Thousand Sons

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I don't mind that, but their attitude needs fixing.

I'm actually quite curious about this.

What part of their attitude do you think needs fixing?

Read A Thousand Sons and you'll know. And the whole '...we're the Space Wolves and we don't listen to the Inquisition/Ecclesiachy...' crap. No other Astartes Chapter makes as big a deal about their autonomy as the Space Wolves do. The Adeptus Astartes may be the Emperor's Champions, but we are still part of the Imperium. And that means keeping things nice and cozy with the other Imperial organizations, even if the Ecclesiarchy are a bunch of doddering fools, and the Inquistion is composed of dishonorable and ignoble . Only raise gak when your autonomy is being compromised and it's not for the greater interests of the Imperium.

KplKeegan wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

Still Bland. Still boring.

Fair enough...if that's your opinion then I can respect that.

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I don't mind that, but their attitude needs fixing.

I'm actually quite curious about this.

What part of their attitude do you think needs fixing?

Read A Thousand Sons and you'll know. And the whole '...we're the Space Wolves and we don't listen to the Inquisition/Ecclesiachy...' crap. No other Astartes Chapter makes as big a deal about their autonomy as the Space Wolves do. The Adeptus Astartes may be the Emperor's Champions, but we are still part of the Imperium. And that means keeping things nice and cozy with the other Imperial organizations, even if the Ecclesiarchy are a bunch of doddering fools, and the Inquistion is composed of dishonorable and ignoble . Only raise gak when your autonomy is being compromised and it's not for the greater interests of the Imperium.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KplKeegan wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

Still Bland. Still boring.

Fair enough...if that's your opinion then I can respect that.

Yes because everyone in Armageddon needed to be destroyed after the first war of Armageddon, men, women and children. Guilty or not. The Space Wolves do what they feel is right. The Inquisiton and the Ecclesiachy have done worse things than the Destruction of Prospero. Loyalty is to be commended, Leman had no reason not to trust Horrus. Orders can be changed at any time.

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

Vaktathi wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

When you think from a military standpoint, you'll realize what you said entirely misses the point.

The success of the Marines isn't in their actual combat strength, since, as you say, compared to the rest of the guard, it isn't that much. What makes the Marines so effective in what they do is the concentration of strength. Think of it this way. A squad of ten Marines has the fighting capabilities of at least a hundred guardsmen. That means that in their preferred rolls of quick strikes and raids, you can deploy a tremendous amount of fighting power while still maintaining a small, streamlined unit. It is this very strength that makes the Space Marines unparalleled at what they do. No other force in the galaxy can ever hope to achieve that kind of effectiveness in that setting.

Vaktathi wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

True but Guardsmen are more easily corrupted than Space Marines leading to mass insurrections and a lot of Guards going Traitor.

rockerbikie wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

True but Guardsmen are more easily corrupted than Space Marines leading to mass insurrections and a lot of Guards going Traitor.

Don't forget half the original Astartes went traitor, nearly 50 entire chapters have turned since then, and innumerable companies, squads, individuals. The Astartes aren't all that reliable in that regard either.

Vaktathi wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

True but Guardsmen are more easily corrupted than Space Marines leading to mass insurrections and a lot of Guards going Traitor.

Don't forget half the original Astartes went traitor, nearly 50 entire chapters have turned since then, and innumerable companies, squads, individuals. The Astartes aren't all that reliable in that regard either.

They were uninformed that Chaos even existed back then. Guardmen know what Chaos is.

Vaktathi wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

True but Guardsmen are more easily corrupted than Space Marines leading to mass insurrections and a lot of Guards going Traitor.

Don't forget half the original Astartes went traitor, nearly 50 entire chapters have turned since then, and innumerable companies, squads, individuals. The Astartes aren't all that reliable in that regard either.

Still far more reliable than the average Guardsman. If you had read the Iron Warriors Rubicon, you'd know that the Iron Warriors have enough trator guardsman and cultists to litterally build their way up a wall with a ramp of bodies. And you're still not addressing the apples-oranges issue. The Guard is a standing army. The Space Marines are, first and foremost, objectively based assets, organized, trained, equipped, and designed to be deployed in a strategic manner to specific objectives. As a Special Operations Capable force, they are absolutely peerless. If you are trying to hold the entire Imperium with them alone, you're right, it wouldn't work. But they are still entirely invaluable to the Imperium for their skills. The guard would find fighting on without them a monumental task, if not completely impossible.

You have also not taken into account unit capabilities against individual capabilities. The capabilities of a squad of ten soldiers does not equal the capabilities of one soldier multiplied by ten, because having more bodies on the field gives access to tactics, strategies, and equipment that one soldier could never field on his own. By that logic, while one Marine may equal 10-12 guardsmen, a squad of ten has a fighting capability far greater than the 1:10 ratio suggests.

Really, the only thing I HATE is the "Ultrasmurfs" hate. I just can't understand why everyone hates the Ultras so much...Honestly, it's the only thing in 40k that makes me nerd-rage.

mega_bassist wrote:Really, the only thing I HATE is the "Ultrasmurfs" hate. I just can't understand why everyone hates the Ultras so much...Honestly, it's the only thing in 40k that makes me nerd-rage.

Agreed. There is nothing wrong with the Ultramarines. They make great helpers to the Black Templars.

rockerbikie wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

True but Guardsmen are more easily corrupted than Space Marines leading to mass insurrections and a lot of Guards going Traitor.

Don't forget half the original Astartes went traitor, nearly 50 entire chapters have turned since then, and innumerable companies, squads, individuals. The Astartes aren't all that reliable in that regard either.

They were uninformed that Chaos even existed back then. Guardmen know what Chaos is.

Actually, they generally don't, and are often destroyed by the Inquisition after conflicts with Chaos forces to ensure knowledge of Chaos does not spread. The Tactica Imperialis book tells the story of an IG regiment that defeats the black crusade of Jihar the Lacerator, and Emperor's Children commander and his warband. Once they defeat him, the IG regiment is destroyed from orbit to prevent the victorious IG units from returning and spreading any knowledge or taint they may have picked up.

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Still far more reliable than the average Guardsman. If you had read the Iron Warriors Rubicon, you'd know that the Iron Warriors have enough trator guardsman and cultists to litterally build their way up a wall with a ramp of bodies. And you're still not addressing the apples-oranges issue. The Guard is a standing army. The Space Marines are, first and foremost, objectively based assets, organized, trained, equipped, and designed to be deployed in a strategic manner to specific objectives. As a Special Operations Capable force, they are absolutely peerless. If you are trying to hold the entire Imperium with them alone, you're right, it wouldn't work. But they are still entirely invaluable to the Imperium for their skills. The guard would find fighting on without them a monumental task, if not completely impossible

The human troops of the Iron Warriors as described in Storm of Iron and Dead Sky Black Sun, etc. are not typically actually traitor Imperial Guardsmen, but rather human troops raised from other sources. Remember that billions of troops, retainers, families, etc followed the Legions into the Eye of Terror and large numbers of other human renegades dwell there as well.

And yes, while Space Marines are peerless as a special operations force, more often than not they are portrayed basically as heavy infantry fighting in front lines, storming hive cities, fighting wars of attrition, etc in ways that are stupid and would see the entirety of the Astartes dead in a month, but they succeed basically because the authors say they do.

However, even as a peerless special operations force, they are replaceable. Even if we exaggerate it and assume it took a thousand times as many "normal" human special operations troops (e.g. Stormtroopers, Inquisitorial agents, etc) to achieve the same objectives, those numbers are far more than available and still represent only a small fraction of the Imperium's non-astartes military might.

You have also not taken into account unit capabilities against individual capabilities. The capabilities of a squad of ten soldiers does not equal the capabilities of one soldier multiplied by ten, because having more bodies on the field gives access to tactics, strategies, and equipment that one soldier could never field on his own. By that logic, while one Marine may equal 10-12 guardsmen, a squad of ten has a fighting capability far greater than the 1:10 ratio suggests.

And by this same token it's not taking into account necessarily the same thing of the Guardsmen (numbers are much more readily available there), or the capabilities of the IG that the SM's lack like large amounts of heavy armor, readily and widely available indirect fire weapons and artillery (historically the biggest killer of soldiers on modern battlefields), etc that the SM's typically lack, not to mention simply the ability to present a presence in a larger number of areas than the Astartes, a Guard regiment can hold a line several miles wide without gaps, an Astartes company cannot. A guard regiment can hold an escape route to prevent encirclement where an Astartes regiment simply couldn't be in enough places at once to do so.

TermiesInARaider wrote:The Guard is a standing army. The Space Marines are, first and foremost, objectively based assets, organized, trained, equipped, and designed to be deployed in a strategic manner to specific objectives. As a Special Operations Capable force, they are absolutely peerless. If you are trying to hold the entire Imperium with them alone, you're right, it wouldn't work. But they are still entirely invaluable to the Imperium for their skills. The guard would find fighting on without them a monumental task, if not completely impossible.

You have also not taken into account unit capabilities against individual capabilities. The capabilities of a squad of ten soldiers does not equal the capabilities of one soldier multiplied by ten, because having more bodies on the field gives access to tactics, strategies, and equipment that one soldier could never field on his own. By that logic, while one Marine may equal 10-12 guardsmen, a squad of ten has a fighting capability far greater than the 1:10 ratio suggests.

The Guard is the standing army.

But there's nothing too exciting about Space Marines. There's no political turmoil, no real strife between chapters (sans the Lion and the Wuff), just Chivalrous Super Humans...

While in the Guard, such things are common place and gives each Regiment more character; like the Salvar Chemdogs, the Phantine Corps, Tanith, Terrax, Valhallan... The list goes on...

KplKeegan wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:The Guard is a standing army. The Space Marines are, first and foremost, objectively based assets, organized, trained, equipped, and designed to be deployed in a strategic manner to specific objectives. As a Special Operations Capable force, they are absolutely peerless. If you are trying to hold the entire Imperium with them alone, you're right, it wouldn't work. But they are still entirely invaluable to the Imperium for their skills. The guard would find fighting on without them a monumental task, if not completely impossible.

You have also not taken into account unit capabilities against individual capabilities. The capabilities of a squad of ten soldiers does not equal the capabilities of one soldier multiplied by ten, because having more bodies on the field gives access to tactics, strategies, and equipment that one soldier could never field on his own. By that logic, while one Marine may equal 10-12 guardsmen, a squad of ten has a fighting capability far greater than the 1:10 ratio suggests.

The Guard is the standing army.

But there's nothing too exciting about Space Marines. There's no political turmoil, no real strife between chapters (sans the Lion and the Wuff), just Chivalrous Super Humans...

While in the Guard, such things are common place and gives each Regiment more character; like the Salvar Chemdogs, the Phantine Corps, Tanith, Terrax, Valhallan... The list goes on...

The post was not ordered to whether the Space Marines were exciting. It was ordered to weather the fluff on their military capabilities is consistent. It proves that the 1:10 ratio does, in fact, fit their description. This is not a street-fight, this is organized war. When one Adeptus Astartes has the same threat profile as a squad-sized unit of baseline humans, one Marine taking out a tank is not as far fetched, is it?

KplKeegan wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:The Guard is a standing army. The Space Marines are, first and foremost, objectively based assets, organized, trained, equipped, and designed to be deployed in a strategic manner to specific objectives. As a Special Operations Capable force, they are absolutely peerless. If you are trying to hold the entire Imperium with them alone, you're right, it wouldn't work. But they are still entirely invaluable to the Imperium for their skills. The guard would find fighting on without them a monumental task, if not completely impossible.

You have also not taken into account unit capabilities against individual capabilities. The capabilities of a squad of ten soldiers does not equal the capabilities of one soldier multiplied by ten, because having more bodies on the field gives access to tactics, strategies, and equipment that one soldier could never field on his own. By that logic, while one Marine may equal 10-12 guardsmen, a squad of ten has a fighting capability far greater than the 1:10 ratio suggests.

The Guard is the standing army.

But there's nothing too exciting about Space Marines. There's no political turmoil, no real strife between chapters (sans the Lion and the Wuff), just Chivalrous Super Humans...

While in the Guard, such things are common place and gives each Regiment more character; like the Salvar Chemdogs, the Phantine Corps, Tanith, Terrax, Valhallan... The list goes on...

Marines Malevolent and Salamanders. The Badab War. The Soul Drinker CHAPTER WAR. There are Chapter wars are power struggles.

Vaktathi wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I hate Speehss Mahreens completely. They're just so... Bland. Nuetered Super Human Soldiers that aren't considered Human anymore? Each of them Supermen? Even the dysfunctional sort (Blood Angles, Space Wolves) are still 'loyal, unwavering' halfwits. Bleh.

What I dislike? Chapter of the Month Space Marine Players...

Without Space Marines, the Imperium would have fallen long ago, or better yet, never would have existed. The Astartes are just as important as the Guard and the Navy and everyone else is.

The problem is that, they succeed in this primarily through plot armor. Given the relative stated numbers of the Imperial Guard against the Space Marines and the scale of a galaxy, the entire military value of the Space Marines would be equal to a mere few hours of the Imperial Guard's daily recruitment intake. There are billions of IG regiments, translating to trillions if not tens of trillions of guardsmen, meaning tens of millions of guardsmen per Space Marine. They say a Space Marine is worth 10-12 guardsmen, even grossly inflating that by a thousand times, the entire military value of the astartes is still such an insignificant portion of the military value of the Imperial Guard that the IG's daily recruitment rate would more than make up for it.

Hence why merely a million space marines doesn't make any sense.

True but Guardsmen are more easily corrupted than Space Marines leading to mass insurrections and a lot of Guards going Traitor.

Don't forget half the original Astartes went traitor, nearly 50 entire chapters have turned since then, and innumerable companies, squads, individuals. The Astartes aren't all that reliable in that regard either.

They were uninformed that Chaos even existed back then. Guardmen know what Chaos is.

Actually, they generally don't, and are often destroyed by the Inquisition after conflicts with Chaos forces to ensure knowledge of Chaos does not spread. The Tactica Imperialis book tells the story of an IG regiment that defeats the black crusade of Jihar the Lacerator, and Emperor's Children commander and his warband. Once they defeat him, the IG regiment is destroyed from orbit to prevent the victorious IG units from returning and spreading any knowledge or taint they may have picked up.

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Still far more reliable than the average Guardsman. If you had read the Iron Warriors Rubicon, you'd know that the Iron Warriors have enough trator guardsman and cultists to litterally build their way up a wall with a ramp of bodies. And you're still not addressing the apples-oranges issue. The Guard is a standing army. The Space Marines are, first and foremost, objectively based assets, organized, trained, equipped, and designed to be deployed in a strategic manner to specific objectives. As a Special Operations Capable force, they are absolutely peerless. If you are trying to hold the entire Imperium with them alone, you're right, it wouldn't work. But they are still entirely invaluable to the Imperium for their skills. The guard would find fighting on without them a monumental task, if not completely impossible

The human troops of the Iron Warriors as described in Storm of Iron and Dead Sky Black Sun, etc. are not typically actually traitor Imperial Guardsmen, but rather human troops raised from other sources. Remember that billions of troops, retainers, families, etc followed the Legions into the Eye of Terror and large numbers of other human renegades dwell there as well.

And yes, while Space Marines are peerless as a special operations force, more often than not they are portrayed basically as heavy infantry fighting in front lines, storming hive cities, fighting wars of attrition, etc in ways that are stupid and would see the entirety of the Astartes dead in a month, but they succeed basically because the authors say they do.

However, even as a peerless special operations force, they are replaceable. Even if we exaggerate it and assume it took a thousand times as many "normal" human special operations troops (e.g. Stormtroopers, Inquisitorial agents, etc) to achieve the same objectives, those numbers are far more than available and still represent only a small fraction of the Imperium's non-astartes military might.

You have also not taken into account unit capabilities against individual capabilities. The capabilities of a squad of ten soldiers does not equal the capabilities of one soldier multiplied by ten, because having more bodies on the field gives access to tactics, strategies, and equipment that one soldier could never field on his own. By that logic, while one Marine may equal 10-12 guardsmen, a squad of ten has a fighting capability far greater than the 1:10 ratio suggests.

And by this same token it's not taking into account necessarily the same thing of the Guardsmen (numbers are much more readily available there), or the capabilities of the IG that the SM's lack like large amounts of heavy armor, readily and widely available indirect fire weapons and artillery (historically the biggest killer of soldiers on modern battlefields), etc that the SM's typically lack, not to mention simply the ability to present a presence in a larger number of areas than the Astartes, a Guard regiment can hold a line several miles wide without gaps, an Astartes company cannot. A guard regiment can hold an escape route to prevent encirclement where an Astartes regiment simply couldn't be in enough places at once to do so.

You're again, disregarding the concentration of force. What ten Marines can accomplish in, say, a fast raid behind enemy lines, the equivalent amount of Kasrkin, or Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, would never be able to accomplish, because the amount of forces they would have to bring to bear would make the fast movement and stealth required in such a mission impossible. That is why the Space Marines are referred to as the Scalpel of the Emperor. They bring tremendous fighting power to bear, in settings that could never be accessed by larger forces. 50 Kasrkin cannot handle the missions that 5 Space Marines can handle, because 50 Kasrkin would be detected by the enemy, surrounded, and slaughtered long before they ever reached the objective.

As for the Authors... Well, that's the plot-armor phenomena. I'm just saying that the 1:10 ratio is very misunderstood, and that particular bit of fluff does fit much of what they're described as capable of.

All the ultramarine hatred is what I hate the most.
Also, the lack of material for the SOB would be intresting if they had a book about some of the non combant ordos.

TermiesInARaider wrote:
You're again, disregarding the concentration of force. What ten Marines can accomplish in, say, a fast raid behind enemy lines, the equivalent amount of Kasrkin, or Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, would never be able to accomplish, because the amount of forces they would have to bring to bear would make the fast movement and stealth required in such a mission impossible.

Maybe, maybe not, that would be highly dependent on the situation. If they couldn't though, the Imperium could likely manage it through force of arms. Even if they have to lose a million men, that's something they can sustain. When you have tens of millions of guardsmen for *each* space marine, not to mention special forces like Stormtroopers and the like, that gives a lot more options. Sure more people die. But the Imperium cares not.

50 Kasrkin cannot handle the missions that 5 Space Marines can handle, because 50 Kasrkin would be detected by the enemy, surrounded, and slaughtered long before they ever reached the objective.

And you base this on...? How are they significantly more detectable than 9ft tall power armored super soldiers in bright colors? Space Marines aren't exactly known for subtlety. If it's not coming down to hand to hand combat, the Kasrkin likely, if anything, have an advantage, as they sport significantly more firepower. In terms of deployment ability, the SM's may have the advantage in terms of being able to deploy by drop pod and bypass defenses, but if they have to go through any sort of defensive systems, it's difficult to see where 50 kasrkin would have a harder time than 5 Space Marines given the greater advantage in firepower, ability to sustain losses, etc.

If the Kasrkin lose 20 dudes, there's still 30 left to take on a lot of duties and cover ground. If the SM's lose 2 dudes, they've got 3 dudes left, 3 dudes are going to have trouble accomplishing a lot of objectives no matter how scary they are, because they simply can't be in enough places at once and cover enough avenues of attack.

As for the Authors... Well, that's the plot-armor phenomena. I'm just saying that the 1:10 ratio is very misunderstood, and that particular bit of fluff does fit much of what they're described as capable of.

It's coming straight from Rogal Dorn. "Give me 100 Space Marines, or failing that, 1000 other men". He's saying what it would take 100 marines to accomplish, it would take 1000 other troops. That sounds like its already taking into account force multipliers since he's stating it from an objective oriented viewpoint rather than a 1:1 comparison of a Space Marine to a Guardsman.

Samus_aran115 wrote:The black Templars, because they're just like the glorious Word Bearers, but they get away with their overzealous ways because the emperor died

...I never thought of that before... what a reallly great point. Seriously. I never thought of that before. We need a show down between the two in a BL book.

mega_bassist wrote:Really, the only thing I HATE is the "Ultrasmurfs" hate. I just can't understand why everyone hates the Ultras so much...Honestly, it's the only thing in 40k that makes me nerd-rage.

+1 This

Dislike: Tau. The space commie thing gets old and the anime style bugs me.

Hate: Dark Angels. Anyone who can get away with attacking another chapter and get away with it...Ie Ophidium Gulf Crusade, gets a special spot.
The biggest hate those is ultras. I don't want to get into a 10 page discussion over the codex and guilliman, but that is where it starts then the attitude of we are the best (I know it comes from Ward) really gets under my skin as I cannot stand arrogance. The fact that they defy their system by controlling a sector when no one is supposed to....man I could write 10 pages on it alone...where's that thread on the "ultramarines were convienently located on the other side of the galaxy."

Other dislikes involve the failcast sayings. I haven't had a problem so don't tell me its bad. That and the ward hate. Yeah his codexes are annoying but if you step back most 5th ed codexes are balanced to each other.

Fralethepalewhale wrote:Draigo.

+1 to that
and also all his grey brothers.

double to the power gamers who leave them unprimed and as, "grey plastic knights"

As a daemon player that would be Grey Knights.

No other Astartes Chapter makes as big a deal about their autonomy as the Space Wolves do.

Dark Angels, but they do it in a far more secretive manner than the brutish Space Wolves.


Anyways

Dislike: Space wolves fluff
Hate: Eldar holofields.

Necrons

Hate.

Draigo.

The idea is good, but the way it's written makes it like Twilight.

I don't go around "DEM NIGHTZ IS OVERPOWEREDS BURNS IT!" And I play Daemons! I just think Ward's incompetence turns good ideas into pure gak.

Dislike Knights.

Not the game play, the fluff.

Again, Wards incompetence is beyond mortal comprehension.

Black Legion and Abbadabbadon. I find the fact that he continues to have any followers beyond my capacity to suspend my disbelief. The Black Legion is everything about Chaos that is random and nonsensical (from a story perspective).

Dislike: Rail guns, thankfully they are only in HS
Mephistion, at least he can't have a squad protecting him.

Hate: Long Fangs,
Thunderwolves

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Hate: Eldar holofields.

I do hear that a lot

Hate: Whiney haters (fat people) who take things far too seriously.

Dislike: Flame baiting threads (fat people) that I'm forced (for reasons beyond me) to add my two-cents to... *pssst* fat people...

Oh yeah and Draigo (his fluff is fat) and anything written thus far by Gav Thorpe ( I think he's fat)

I don't really hate fat people though (they're tasty!), but this is a dangerous thread and I'm WALKIN' THE EDGE! *sigh* *Wheez*

Maybe I'm fat... does my butt look big on this forum?


**Attention**

Reading this thread may cause Apoplectic seizures, shortness of breath, constipation, sweaty palms and suspect hygiene. Any elevated blood flow to particular organs for more than four (4) hours should be considered dangerous and you should seek a doctor.

The comments and views expressed in this post are purely those of the author and do not reflect the opinion of this Forum, the OP and those drawn in to this thread.

I do not give a damn what any of the novels, codex, or rulebooks have to say at all in the slightest. Space Marines are smart enough to learn to build things. The entire dark age of technology or whatever is just stupid as hell to me. Everything that's not space marines is pretty cool too me, but marines are functionally stupid. Ignorant people in power armor FTL.

Some of the individual events and chapter stories are cool to read, but the overall premise is just riddled with plot holes so big that you could fly the Highwind through them.

Gandair wrote:I do not give a damn what any of the novels, codex, or rulebooks have to say at all in the slightest. Space Marines are smart enough to learn to build things. The entire dark age of technology or whatever is just stupid as hell to me. Everything that's not space marines is pretty cool too me, but marines are functionally stupid. Ignorant people in power armor FTL.

Some of the individual events and chapter stories are cool to read, but the overall premise is just riddled with plot holes so big that you could fly the Highwind through them.

Actually what the dark age of technology means is that they don't build NEW things. They modify things all the time.

Look at how many variants of land raider there are, and how many things evolved from the simple rhino.

Some of them were STC'S because they required some very specific things. (The six lascannon needed a new engine type just to accommodate the power usage)

Though it's frowned upon by the Adeptas Mechanicus, even the IG does their own repair work from time to time, and it's even listed that hellhound drivers tinker with their rides all the time to produce a much more powerful flame. Just don't let the Tech priests know what your doing.

Dislike - Black Templars, Marines Malevolent, Hrud
Hate - Tau, Eldar, Overly (In the extreme) Puritan/Radical Inquisitors, Eldrad, The lack of explanation about how purity seals survive trough countless battles O_O HOW? What kind of paper is that thing made of?

Bronies.

Kaldor wrote:Bronies.

What are bronies?

Tadashi wrote:

Kaldor wrote:Bronies.

What are bronies?

The Adult fan base of My Little Pony.

(Shivers)

Kaldor wrote:Bronies.

There's Bronies in the 40k universe!? My god, this is news to me. I mean aside from the horse headed inquisitor I never would've guessed this.

Kaldor wrote:Bronies.

I have to agree with this...

Kaldor wrote:Bronies.

QFT

Intolerance, and judgment.

Hatred itself!!

Any army which reads like a mad-lib where you use essentially a single word as a modifier for everything and call it a day.

The largest offenders would be Space Wolves and Blood Angles. Everything is Wolf- or Blood-.

pk1 wrote:Any army which reads like a mad-lib where you use essentially a single word as a modifier for everything and call it a day.

The largest offenders would be Space Wolves and Blood Angles. Everything is Wolf- or Blood-.

Frim 1d4chan, best thing on the topic.

rockerbikie wrote:Dislike:

Hate:
Thousand Sons

A Space Wolf Player hating Thousand Sons? oh the irony.
Dislike
Eldar
Hate
Dark Eldar
Crimson Fists

I'm surprised by the hatred of Space Wolves in general. I thought that the hate would mainly come for Canis Wolfborn, Thunderwolves, etc etc.

Hate: Uriel Ventris and



Dislike: Marneus Calgar, playing against Draigowings armies.

Did someone really say Uriel Ventris?
Why Not Cato Scarius?
He has douche written all over him.


Who do I hate? This guy http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Lucius_the_Eternal
Why you ask? Because. He is a douche. He's Cato Scarius but in purple form. Anyone notice that? They are basically the same guy. Just different colors. One is kinda of a daemon, one is a space marine jerk. They both killed their brothers. Both of them are sword masters, both of them have almost died because of their stupid mistakes. Both of them like to push their other misforunate brothers down. Both have extremely flashy armor. Both consider themselves to be incredibely powerful. Hence why I believe Lucius and Cato are the same person.

Dislike: Space Wolf Haters. Seriously. I Love my wolves. Stop the hatin.

Vandire. What a donkey-cave. So glad he died.

Also the Wolves..
The whole package, codex, fluff and model artwork...

This thread seems more like a Space Wolf hate thread than anything else. Did all of you hate the Space Wolves way back in 2nd edition or is it just because of the recent drivel about them that is produced by Black Library and the current codex?

Personally, I hate every other chapter of space marines except the Space Wolves because the space wolves are the only chapter that has the courage to stand up to the big bully's of the Imperium....the Inquisition and the Eclessiarchy. I just dislike the space wolves.

I used to play Space Wolves in 2nd edition, it was one of the first armies I played. Since then I've gone over to xenos. I play Eldar.

So now I hate the Imperium and all that it stands for. The entire imperium is despicable. The emperor was an evil warlord and deserves to die, along with his evil empire. If mankind stooped to that low of a moral code they don't deserve to exist.

Because of him Chaos now has super human power armored warriors running around instead of just daemons (which are bad enough) and he nearly destroyed the galaxy because of his failed primarch project. It obviously didn't work, half of them turned on him.

At least the Eldar repented of their evil and are now spending their lives trying to stop it. The Imperium just keeps going on the path of Evil not giving a crap about who they hurt.

TermiesInARaider wrote:
You're again, disregarding the concentration of force. What ten Marines can accomplish in, say, a fast raid behind enemy lines, the equivalent amount of Kasrkin, or Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, would never be able to accomplish, because the amount of forces they would have to bring to bear would make the fast movement and stealth required in such a mission impossible. That is why the Space Marines are referred to as the Scalpel of the Emperor. They bring tremendous fighting power to bear, in settings that could never be accessed by larger forces. 50 Kasrkin cannot handle the missions that 5 Space Marines can handle, because 50 Kasrkin would be detected by the enemy, surrounded, and slaughtered long before they ever reached the objective.

As for the Authors... Well, that's the plot-armor phenomena. I'm just saying that the 1:10 ratio is very misunderstood, and that particular bit of fluff does fit much of what they're described as capable of.

I beg to differ. Marines don't do stealth. Scouts do. and Scouts are equipped with lesser weaponary. Kasrkins lives kinda depends on their stealth. Marines/scouts can do a Monty Python-esque " 'tis but a scratch"

The Crusader wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:
You're again, disregarding the concentration of force. What ten Marines can accomplish in, say, a fast raid behind enemy lines, the equivalent amount of Kasrkin, or Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, would never be able to accomplish, because the amount of forces they would have to bring to bear would make the fast movement and stealth required in such a mission impossible. That is why the Space Marines are referred to as the Scalpel of the Emperor. They bring tremendous fighting power to bear, in settings that could never be accessed by larger forces. 50 Kasrkin cannot handle the missions that 5 Space Marines can handle, because 50 Kasrkin would be detected by the enemy, surrounded, and slaughtered long before they ever reached the objective.

As for the Authors... Well, that's the plot-armor phenomena. I'm just saying that the 1:10 ratio is very misunderstood, and that particular bit of fluff does fit much of what they're described as capable of.

I beg to differ. Marines don't do stealth. Scouts do. and Scouts are equipped with lesser weaponary. Kasrkins lives kinda depends on their stealth. Marines/scouts can do a Monty Python-esque " 'tis but a scratch"

Hey Raven Guard Hows it going!

Asherian Command wrote:Did someone really say Uriel Ventris?
Why Not Cato Scarius?
He has douche written all over him.

Oh yeah him as well, forgot about him.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

So now I hate the Imperium and all that it stands for. The entire imperium is despicable. The emperor was an evil warlord and deserves to die, along with his evil empire. If mankind stooped to that low of a moral code they don't deserve to exist.

I beg to differ. Survival or obliteration will be the standards by which history will judge Mankind. No one prosecutes victors. Whether it's 40k or the real world, 'true justice' does not exist. What is just for some is unjust for others. The simple truth is that the winners are just while the losers get nothing at all. The strong rule while the weak and powerless submit or die. That is the highest, most absolute law of the universe: survival of the fittest. If the Imperium didn't do what it needs to, then it and Mankind would have been destroyed long ago.

And Mankind has already stooped to that level. The Holocaust, the fire-bombing of Japan, the nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Stalin's Purges, the Crusades...need I go on? By your logic, we shouldn't even be talking right now, since we don't deserve to exist. But we do, because by the blood of countless deaths we have earned our survival: survival of the fittest.

At least the Eldar repented of their evil and are now spending their lives trying to stop it. The Imperium just keeps going on the path of Evil not giving a crap about who they hurt.

And what is so different between Humans and Eldar? The Humans destroy everything that threatens them. Are the Eldar really so different, killing billions of Humans to save a mere handful of Eldar? Is there any difference between the pride and disdain of Humans and Eldar respectively? And you're missing the point of 40k. It's not good vs. evil. It's bad vs. worse. Don't talk about good and evil either - they are mere Human gibberish that are meaningless in the context of the greater reality.

I dislike threads about the Imperium vs Star/wars/trek/gate

Tadashi wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

So now I hate the Imperium and all that it stands for. The entire imperium is despicable. The emperor was an evil warlord and deserves to die, along with his evil empire. If mankind stooped to that low of a moral code they don't deserve to exist.

I beg to differ. Survival or obliteration will be the standards by which history will judge Mankind. No one prosecutes victors. Whether it's 40k or the real world, 'true justice' does not exist. What is just for some is unjust for others. The simple truth is that the winners are just while the losers get nothing at all. The strong rule while the weak and powerless submit or die. That is the highest, most absolute law of the universe: survival of the fittest. If the Imperium didn't do what it needs to, then it and Mankind would have been destroyed long ago.

Actually, the species which can best adapt to it's environment survives, not the strongest. Hence why small mammals survived when the Dinosaurs died. Humanity in the 40k universe is doomed whilst it remains static, not advancing or adapting. Unless it opens itself to new ideas and new technologies it will fall.

The races which are going to be best prepared for survival are the Tau, Tyranids and Orks. All of these races are either already adapted to survival way beyond what humanity could ever hope to be (Orks) or still adapting, be it physically (Tyranids) or technologically (Tau).

@Tadashi....Don't take it too seriously dude, I'm just explaining why I don't like the Emperor or the Imperium and why I play Eldar. It's just the way I see the game and I'm not gonna derail the thread by getting into a moral debate about the Imperium. I was just giving my reasons as to what I dislike and hate in the game as the OP asked us to do.

By the way, no one has answered my question about how they felt about Space Wolves in 2nd edition....

Leandros from Space Marine.

Dislike:
Necrons getting up after you knock them down
Assault marines not being troops,
People complaining about vanilla marines getting cool toys via forgeworld
No apothecary for vanilla marines as elites/HQ

Hates:
Plague marines
Khorn beserkers
Grey kniiiiiiiiiights!!!
Eldrad

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

So now I hate the Imperium and all that it stands for. The entire imperium is despicable. The emperor was an evil warlord and deserves to die, along with his evil empire. If mankind stooped to that low of a moral code they don't deserve to exist.

I beg to differ. Survival or obliteration will be the standards by which history will judge Mankind. No one prosecutes victors. Whether it's 40k or the real world, 'true justice' does not exist. What is just for some is unjust for others. The simple truth is that the winners are just while the losers get nothing at all. The strong rule while the weak and powerless submit or die. That is the highest, most absolute law of the universe: survival of the fittest. If the Imperium didn't do what it needs to, then it and Mankind would have been destroyed long ago.

Actually, the species which can best adapt to it's environment survives, not the strongest. Hence why small mammals survived when the Dinosaurs died. Humanity in the 40k universe is doomed whilst it remains static, not advancing or adapting. Unless it opens itself to new ideas and new technologies it will fall.

The races which are going to be best prepared for survival are the Tau, Tyranids and Orks. All of these races are either already adapted to survival way beyond what humanity could ever hope to be (Orks) or still adapting, be it physically (Tyranids) or technologically (Tau).

Orks will survive no matter what, and the Tyranids probably as well. Tau? Too naive; unless they grow out of their belief everyone can coexist they're heading for a Lovecraftian dead-end, given 40k's setting.

Orks

NNot a fan of Necrons unkillableness either.

Dislike : Big Meck with a custom FF
Hate: Any and all eldar HQ's

mitnal wrote:Dislike : Big Meck with a custom FF
Hate: Any and all eldar HQ's

What's wrong with Baharroth apart from that he's one of the most horribly overcosted things in the game?

Rampage wrote:

mitnal wrote:Dislike : Big Meck with a custom FF
Hate: Any and all eldar HQ's

What's wrong with Baharroth apart from that he's one of the most horribly overcosted things in the game?

..........

GW prices. :(

I mean, I respect their work and all but I'm poor!

Oh, and Necrons. I just don't like them! Call me racist... if killer robot counts as a race.

Dislike: Magan Rah (sp?)
Hate: Eldrad Ulthran

Actually... these two are kinda interchangeable.

Who do I hate?

Hmmm....

Vulkan He'stan.

He is the only SC that has rustled my jimmies on more than one occasion other than my friend's Necron Lord before the new codex came out.

The Ecclesiarchy because they are religious donkey-caves

The Adeptus Mechanicus because they are religious donkey-caves that tries to hoard all the technology instead of using it to improve the lives of the people.

Edit: Nice profanity filter Dakka

ChaoticBob wrote:GW prices. :(

I mean, I respect their work and all but I'm poor!

Oh, and Necrons. I just don't like them! Call me racist... if killer robot counts as a race.

thats ok Mr Racist, I dont like them at all either XD

Robert Guilliman.

When reading his fluff I felt like I'm about to puke a rainbow.

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Wolves on the other hand...hmmm, what to say in their defense..

Space Vikings.

Need I say more?

I don't mind that, but their attitude needs fixing.

I'm actually quite curious about this.

What part of their attitude do you think needs fixing?

They would actually be a lot more interesting if they were more like actual Vikings in space. I enjoy reading Icelandic sagas, and the character and flavor of those stories would make the Space Wolves so much more interesting than their current "we read a book about vikings in 5^th grade" nonsense. A Space viking like Skarp-Hedin? Awesome. Egil Skallagrimsson? Beowulf? All of these characters are so much more complex than anything related to the Space Wolves.

Grey Hunters, more USR's than normal SM but lower points?!?!? WTF.

Ok I will jump on the Space Wolf hate band wagon, I have played Black Legion since 2nd edition and faced these Space Vikings almost every week end to no end. Well I got good news for all you Space Wolf haters out there. My second army is a Grot Rebellion, I teamed up with my partner a Tyrannid player vs. Space Wolfs and Blood Claws. We tabled them in turn 3 vie a Grot Tank Shock and they gave up the field. There was a stipulation if the Space Marines lost this battle, If they lost both Chapter Masters would surrender to the Grot Army to be displayed on my Battle Wagon. The players shamefully agread to this and handed over there painted Chapter Master figures to be displayed as trophy's on my personal HQ Battle Wagon. How humiliating is that pics will be sure to follow (Blood Claws are a splinter group from the Blood Angels) I am so happy from that battle and my Grot Army resived no casulties in the battle Lord Grotmungus is so proud of this embarassing Imperial Defeat. Sorry just proud is all

Necrons.... Hate.

I hate the Emperor. For a genius godking, he sure made a lot of stupid mistakes. Leaving halfway through his crusade definitely would not be good for moral, and he should have known that. Trying to quash all religion was also probably a poor choice, regardless of how misguided they may have been. He should have instead harnessed their belief as the current imperium does and used it to inspire his troops. It seems like he's got a lot of hype going on considering what a doofus he was.

I dislike the space marines in general. I find them to be bland poster-boys. There are some cool things about them sure, but any time someone's whole concept is "they're like everyone else, but better" it kinda turns me off. At least with chaos their kinda flawed, in more ways than just being kinda an arrogant and self-righteous jerk.

Matt ward, Grey knights, blood angels, dark anglels, black templars, IG, SM, tau, eldar, dark eldar, nids, crons, battle sisters, the imperium and orks. did i say matt ward?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Matt ward, Grey knights, blood angels, dark anglels, black templars, IG, SM, tau, eldar, dark eldar, nids, crons, battle sisters, the imperium and orks. did i say matt ward?

I think we've got a troll here.

I have a general mild antipathy towards the human factions in general unless they prove that they're worth bothering about, mainly because they as a whole are massively overexposed to the point where I have a hard time not getting bored about reading Imperium vs insert anyone faction here, especially Imperials vs Chaos, which has been done to death so many times I find it really hard to breathe any new interest into that match up.

TL;DR I dislike humans.

In the game : The iconic 40k chainsword is a generic close combat weapon.

The story: IG commanders are often portrayed as incompatent or uncareing.

ZOMBIE CAT wrote:In the game : The iconic 40k chainsword is a generic close combat weapon.

The story: IG commanders are often portrayed as incompatent or uncareing.

Well, to be fair, uncaring fits quite well in many cases given the setting, even in game, a good IG commander will be ruthless. I've gladly intentionally lost combats and removed sergeants to reduce Ld and return attacks to help ensure that I lost so that I could resume shooting at opponents, even at the cost of 3 or 4 units of infantry, or tossing command squads up to melta enemy tanks with the certain knowledge that they're going do die after doing so. When an opponent sweeps through a big grip of units, I'll think "It's cute you think they were important" because in doing so I'll usually have traded 100-200pts worth of units for something twice as valuable to my opponent.

Incompetent is another thing though, for some reason many authors equate uncaring/noticeable casualties with incompetent. A lot of the time anything that isn't a Space Marine can't have any reasonable command ability.

Dislike:
The Emperor and most of the Primarchs.

Hate:
Matt Ward.
Bronies.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:This thread seems more like a Space Wolf hate thread than anything else. Did all of you hate the Space Wolves way back in 2nd edition or is it just because of the recent drivel about them that is produced by Black Library and the current codex?

Even in 2nd edition Space Wolves were "marines +1" and were basically an exercise in fanwankery by Andy Chambers. That probably wasn't enough to truly hate them, though. The real hate probably came from their recent characterizations in novels.

Bronies.

But...But.

My,My little pony sphess marine army even has legit fluff how Rainbow Dash led the Crimson Fists to victory against the Orks.

Ahh, the Ecclesiarchy. I'd forgotten about them in my current focus on Space Puppies instead of my usual Sisters of Battle. I like the idea of a holy warrior, at least aesthetically, but I don't like the whole, "INNOCENCE PROVES NOTHING," thing and how they kill off anyone even associated with heresy. In one of the books, a force of Sisters of Battle were killing off Guardsmen on some planet whose commander had rebelled, and knew that most of them were innocent and only following orders, but they didn't care enough to find out who was only following orders and who was actually treasonous, and just killed them ALL.

Speaking of bronies, it seems everyone in this thread that flies the Pony banner also has some allegiance to Slaanesh. Like draws like, I suppose, the "like" in this case being "abhorent sexual deviancy".

Seekers kinda look like horses.

I was always a CSM/Dark Eldar kinda guy though.

Omegus wrote:Speaking of bronies, it seems everyone in this thread that flies the Pony banner also has some allegiance to Slaanesh. Like draws like, I suppose, the "like" in this case being "abhorent sexual deviancy".

I have an allegiance to Dark Angels, Slaanesh (But until it's competitive again..), and Sisters of Battle

Omegus wrote:Speaking of bronies, it seems everyone in this thread that flies the Pony banner also has some allegiance to Slaanesh. Like draws like, I suppose, the "like" in this case being "abhorent sexual deviancy".

So does that mean your allegiance to Tzeentch means you're just trying to stir some gak?

Change!

I don't hate game stuff.
I save that for people I know (I can't hate someone I don't know because I don't know them well enough to know whether it's just dislike).

I dislike Draigo's fluff (and model - but the model is why I won't use the character - the fluff just guarantees I won't use it).
Blood Angels for the blood god.
Space Wolves of wolfy wolfdom
Chaos (so eeeeeeevil for the sake of it and skulls and spikes just because).
Orks (football hooligans. I need no other reason to despise them).
Necrons. Boring metal robots that want to kill everything. Even with the update.
Space marine fluff. The crusading space knight crap. I preferred them as his Holy Emperor's fascist bully boys and facekickers.

For me, in gameplay I'd have to hate Grey Knights most of all. Their Dreadknight's flamer is just too overpowered and unfair (yeah, how are you supposed to be safe if the weapon is fired 12" away from the model???) along with their physic powers for their dreadnoughts. Make a leadership test and ignore a shaken or stunned result? Bull____! And another thing, their army allowing them to bring terminators as troops and elites WHILE their main hero is a terminator armor wearing CC God is in that group with all their shenanigans with wound allocations? I just hate them most of all with a Orkish passion. Other ones I'd have to hate is Tyranids; almost everyone at the hobby store I play at uses them and its all the same list almost: Swarmlord/Hive Tyrant, Genestealers and Trygon, with the exception of people sometimes bringing in Zoanthropes and Warriors.

Now that I think about it, I just have a hatred of players who never be creative in their army lists and just search for army lists online that have won tournaments and copy them because they want to win.

Dislike: Putting together Ork Trukks.

Hates: Draigo

Dislike: Super glue. And metal models. And how goddamn expensive paints are. Even third party paints!

Hate: Nobody. The Tau Empire accepts all...whether you like it or not.

Omegus wrote:Speaking of bronies, it seems everyone in this thread that flies the Pony banner also has some allegiance to Slaanesh. Like draws like, I suppose, the "like" in this case being "abhorent sexual deviancy".

Hate:
people who think slaanesh is just about "boobz an sex duh huh huh"


that being said you are right about the whole slaanesh players being bronies thing. maybe it because slaanesh likes pretty colours and ponies are pretty colours :3

@ Shadowbrand: I'd say they look more like seahorses than anything though the old ones were like skinned lizard chickens o.O

Hate Eldar - because I've never beaten them.

Like Imperial Guard - because they are just a bunch of grunts who defend the Imperium from Superhumans, Aliens, Daemons and other Humans.

I also hate the fact that I can't find an army I like the look of and play style.

Hate: Lance Weapons... (with a passion)

Hate: Finecast, because its not what it says it should be: Finely Crafted ( why am i paying more for something i feel i should be paying less for because i always have to fix it )

Hate: Bent Weapons/Models...(with a passion)

Dislike: HoloFields

The Models that look awesome but thats pretty much all they are capable of.

Shadowbrand wrote:I dislike threads about the Imperium vs Star/wars/trek/gate

Oh my god, this so much. The only thing worse than that is those weirdass anime/40k crossovers.

Also hate that rough riders are on horses and not motorcycles... Like common, even in the World war we used motorcycles... Common FW make me some IG Harley's

Diezel wrote:Hate: Lance Weapons... (with a passion)

Hate: Finecast, because its not what it says it should be: Finely Crafted ( why am i paying more for something i feel i should be paying less for because i always have to fix it )

Hate: Bent Weapons/Models...(with a passion)

I also hate Failcast, not only do you pay more for the Model (due to Quality Control apparently so I'd love to see the stuff that doesn't make it onto the shelves) but then you have to fork out for Green Stuff and spend ages doing something that should already be done. So now I just return it, If I can cast bubble Free resin then surely GW shouldn't have a Problem.

SamsStuff wrote:

Diezel wrote:Hate: Lance Weapons... (with a passion)

Hate: Finecast, because its not what it says it should be: Finely Crafted ( why am i paying more for something i feel i should be paying less for because i always have to fix it )

Hate: Bent Weapons/Models...(with a passion)

I also hate Failcast, not only do you pay more for the Model (due to Quality Control apparently so I'd love to see the stuff that doesn't make it onto the shelves) but then you have to fork out for Green Stuff and spend ages doing something that should already be done. So now I just return it, If I can cast bubble Free resin then surely GW shouldn't have a Problem.

YOU CAN RETURN THEM?!?!? and then what? they send you a bubble free model? id love to return my Creed to get a bubble/chip free version

Diezel wrote:Also hate that rough riders are on horses and not motorcycles... Like common, even in the World war we used motorcycles... Common FW make me some IG Harley's

I think a horse is generally easier to maintain than a motorbike in the field.

And if the worst comes to the worst and your horse gets crippled or dies you can eat it. I don't think I've ever seen someone eat a Harley

SamsStuff wrote:

YOU CAN RETURN THEM?!?!? and then what? they send you a bubble free model? id love to return my Creed to get a bubble/chip free version

I'll take back everything bad I ever said about the mods if they make those threads a bannable offence. And personally worship them as deities.

-Please- hear the pleas of one of your oldest, still frequenting trolls Dakka Mods. Your my only hope.


Also, in the -least- offensive way possible. If all the bronies are Slanneshi Cultists? Torturing them in most horrific agonizingly painful way that will make Slannesh herself weep tears of liquified cocaine and thus at their expenditure prolong my blasphemous, heinous existence?