I always liked it...
Red had a marathon of them over the summer a few years ago so i watched it all...
Pretty good i thought though for some reason Odo really annoyed me...
It's up there with Babylon 5 because it was based on/inspired by JMS's early script for B5.
They are from being entirely identical, but you can see the similarities between them. DS9 is my favorite Star Trek series (In the Pale Moonlight is one of my favorite scifi episodes of all time, period) mainly because it departed from the episodic nature of the other series and had a well developed story arc.
Yeah, it's my favorite Star Trek series, for sure. I started watching the German-dubbed version this year from season one on, and It gets even better as it goes along, with less alien of the week episodes and more story arc episodes.
There are definitely some very powerful moments later on in the series.
Spoiler:
One of my favorites is the episode where the Federation evacuates the station, and Gul Dukat finds Captain Sisko's baseball, and tells Weyoun, "He's letting me know....he'll be back."
Also, DS9 wasn't good because it's story was copied from Bab5. A good premise doesnt ensure a good show. Voyager and Stargate Universe had much the same premise but had different levels of success.
P.S. Bab5 was awesome and I wish they'd do more with it.
Fave Star Trek show for sure, Babylon 5 and Farscape are rated above it, but its a solid third for my Sci-fi TV shows.
As to the copied B5 stuff, aye maybe, but they are two very different shows with where they went with that intial source material and as a Sci-fi fan, I think we would have been short changed if one or the other had not aired.
Aduro wrote:Also, DS9 wasn't good because it's story was copied from Bab5. ... .
Babylon 5 came out a year after Deep Space 9. It demonstrates the awesome powers possessed by the writers of DS9 that they had the prescience to travel into the future to copy the idea.
Aduro wrote:Also, DS9 wasn't good because it's story was copied from Bab5. ... .
Babylon 5 came out a year after Deep Space 9. It demonstrates the awesome powers possessed by the writers of DS9 that they had the prescience to travel into the future to copy the idea.
Kil, it's best not to insult people when you no idea what you're talking about.
JMS shipped the idea of Babylon 5 to Paramount as early at 1989, but they passed because for various reasons. He "provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and "synopses to about 22 or so planned episodes taken from the overall course of the planned series."
"3) B5 dates back to 1987. If he would like to see some sneaky
references to it in print, tell him to go check out a copy of OtherSyde,
my second novel, published in around 1990, which contains a reference to
Babylon 5. Also, if he has a bunch of old Starlogs, if he wants to check
in around 1988, he will find an interview with me in which one of the
things mentioned is that I'm working to sell a show called Babylon 5. A
final reference to B5 is in an episode of Captain Power called "Final
Stand," which I slipped in for funsies."
purplefood wrote:KK didn't actually insult him though...
He sarcastically implied that the guy didn't know what the feth he was talking about because B5 came out a year after DS9. I consider that unnecessarily rude.
purplefood wrote:KK didn't actually insult him though...
He sarcastically implied that the guy didn't know what the feth he was talking about because B5 came out a year after DS9. I consider that unnecessarily rude.
Everything is relative...
Sarcasm can seem harsh at times but it isn't necessarily an insult.
It just shows the awesome power of whoever wrote Babylon 5, that they were able to watch Deep Space 9 for the idea, then time travel back to the past in order not to get the show accepted by Paramount.
Kilkrazy wrote:It just shows the awesome power of whoever wrote Babylon 5, that they were able to watch Deep Space 9 for the idea, then time travel back to the past in order not to get the show accepted by Paramount.
Not sure if serious. Either way, I have only one reaction to this statement.
Babylon 5 invented the idea of a space station. Everyone knows that. It would have3 been impossible for anyone to have a similar idea, so it must have been stolen through the use of a time machine. Oddly, this means that the original Star Trek, which had episodes taking place entirely on space stations, was also written after Babylon 5, but sent back in time. Kubrik also ripped it off in 2001.
I remember reading somewhere that they'd originally planned for the series to be a bit darker, like the pilot basically, but the pilot wasn't altogether well received. I'm not sure if the negativity came from Trek fans, the public or a mixture both; the complaints expressing confusion about the station doors not working seemed to miss the point!
In the Pale Moonlight received a lot of backlash from some fans for being overly grimdark. As a whole, DS9 received a fair amount of criticism from ST fans for not being true to Roddenberry's vision of a utopian future.
Amaya wrote:In the Pale Moonlight received a lot of backlash from some fans for being overly grimdark. As a whole, DS9 received a fair amount of criticism from ST fans for not being true to Roddenberry's vision of a utopian future.
To be fair I think TNG pushed that model of Trek as far as it would go without becoming self-recycling, and that kind of goes against the motto of "boldly going"! I think the utopian future is great when applied to the Federation, but it's possible to subject that perfect society to the strains and trials of a war it might not win and still remain faithful to the Roddenberry vision - so long as the writers are doing so to explore those moral conundrums and difficult decisions, as opposed to just making entertaining TV. I never got to see DS9 all the way through and so I cannot really offer an opinion on whether the writers succeeded in that respect.
Star Trek TOS and TNG are pretty decent shows and I don't care much either way concerning Voyager. IMO, the best of Star Trek is Wrath of Khan, The Undiscovered Country and DS9 because they're willing to move out of the perfect future and deal with morally gray/darker issues especially in TUC and DS9.
Babylon 5 for me is hands down bette rthan DS9. Better characters, much more grimdark & 'real' in that humans aren't the end-all-be-all super power and there are no real bad guy/good guy, just various shades of grey. (okay, President Clark was easily a power hungry & ruthless evil tyrant!)
Oh, and Sisko is nowhere near as bad@$$ as Sheridan!
Spoiler:
Sheridan only walks into what he knows is a trap, straps a nuke to his ship, jumps into a giant abyss and makes a large chunk of Za'ha'dum go BOOM! in his wife's face!
Now that is a total bad@$$!
Not to mention the whole trmapling Mr.Morden's civil rights into the gorund because "he's legally dead according to Earthdome", and illegally holding him without charge, then having him illegally scaned by a highly unwilling Talia Winters...
purplefood wrote:KK didn't actually insult him though...
He sarcastically implied that the guy didn't know what the feth he was talking about because B5 came out a year after DS9. I consider that unnecessarily rude.
Everything is relative...
Sarcasm can seem harsh at times but it isn't necessarily an insult.
Lets all chill now yes?
Surely we can all agree the Ferengi should have been the most annoying thing on DS9 but somehow Quark's performance kept them tolerable. It's really an amazing job.
And how does the guy who plays Odo do such a good job under what must be a pancake of makeup?
I think the relationship between Odo and Quark is one of the best parts of the show. It's like they're both friends in a weird way, but neither of them would ever admit it.
DS9 - my favourite thing that the Star Trek universe ever produced.
I watch this series once or so a year from front to back. The political relations, and character relationships never get old for me.
Also from what I have seen of other Star trek, this show by far has the most really good characters, and my opinion, some of the best.
Quark
Garak
Sisko
Dukat
Vic Fontaine
Quarks wives / ex girlfriends. I can not remember eithers name off hand, but House of Quark is my favourite episode
Amaya wrote:Star Trek TOS and TNG are pretty decent shows and I don't care much either way concerning Voyager. IMO, the best of Star Trek is Wrath of Khan, The Undiscovered Country and DS9 because they're willing to move out of the perfect future and deal with morally gray/darker issues especially in TUC and DS9.
The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
So you like the Mass Effect 3 endings and dislike Babylon 5? I think it's safe to say you have terrible taste in science fiction.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
So you like the Mass Effect 3 endings and dislike Babylon 5? I think it's safe to say you have terrible taste in science fiction.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
Did you watch Season 2 or stop at Season 1? Season 1 is just getting going with a lot of mediocrte standalones. The show doesn't start to rock hard until it goes all LOTR like.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
Did you watch Season 2 or stop at Season 1? Season 1 is just getting going with a lot of mediocrte standalones. The show doesn't start to rock hard until it goes all LOTR like.
I watched the entire thing actually. I'm not saying it's horrible, there just isn't much to it. Season 4 has the most going on (but still has uneven pacing). Season 5 is unwatchable. I think their original plan may have been to divide up all those storylines from season 4 into season 5 but hreat of cancellation may have rushed them.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
Did you watch Season 2 or stop at Season 1? Season 1 is just getting going with a lot of mediocrte standalones. The show doesn't start to rock hard until it goes all LOTR like.
I watched the entire thing actually. I'm not saying it's horrible, there just isn't much to it. Season 4 has the most going on (but still has uneven pacing). Season 5 is unwatchable. I think their original plan may have been to divide up all those storylines from season 4 into season 5 but hreat of cancellation may have rushed them.
Yup, DS9 never really had much of a true story arc...
Until Babylon 5 wiped the floor with them at the Hugos that one year!
If you're a Treakie, then DS9 is easily the best series they ever produced, even Star Trek space combat is laughably comical in it's entirety!
If you want a show that feels epic and has a deeper storyline going with some real cloak & dagger moments and big surprises, Babylon 5 is where it's at!
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
Did you watch Season 2 or stop at Season 1? Season 1 is just getting going with a lot of mediocrte standalones. The show doesn't start to rock hard until it goes all LOTR like.
I watched the entire thing actually. I'm not saying it's horrible, there just isn't much to it. Season 4 has the most going on (but still has uneven pacing). Season 5 is unwatchable. I think their original plan may have been to divide up all those storylines from season 4 into season 5 but hreat of cancellation may have rushed them.
Yup, DS9 never really had much of a true story arc...
Until Babylon 5 wiped the floor with them at the Hugos that one year!
If you're a Treakie, then DS9 is easily the best series they ever produced, even Star Trek space combat is laughably comical in it's entirety!
If you want a show that feels epic and has a deeper storyline going with some real cloak & dagger moments and big surprises, Babylon 5 is where it's at!
Can't agree with that. Star Trek especially DS9 has many good battles. B5 almost had a good fight when they retook earth...but then it didn't.
The political intrigue is DS9 was much more interesting too.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
Anyways, KK DS9 actually gets better with each season and one of the best giant, galactic wars ever if you're into that kinda thing.
So you like the Mass Effect 3 endings and dislike Babylon 5? I think it's safe to say you have terrible taste in science fiction.
Not at all. Clearly he likes DS9. That alone ensures that he has impeccable taste. And, as a human who likes DS9, he's got immunity* for a few quirks to his taste.
As long as he likes DS9.
*Offer good for a limited time only. Void where prohibited. While supplies last. Offer not available in Canada. No Refunds. Violators will be prosecuted. Unattended children will be towed. Do not use if seal is broken. Traitors to the Empire will be subject to a duel of honor. Honorless p'tachs will be fed to the targs. Treason against the senate will be punished by agents of the Tal Shiar. Threats to Earth will be dealt with swiftly and creatively by Section 31. The Obsidian Order already knows what you did and if you are reading this don't turn around. Aliens beneath the notice of the greater faction's clandestine organizations can expect to receive a visit from a surly Nausicaan who will say insulting things about your guramba.
DS9 was, by far, my favorite star trek. Garak was straight out of a Le Carre novel. Odo was always watchable. Quark was amazing.
It was not in the same storytelling league as B5 however. That series was peerless. G'Kar and Londo were the most watchable odd couple ever, both Jurasik and Katsulas were just amazing to watch as their characters evolved.
I used to have a saying, a next gen filler episode involved Troi having a headache, a B5 filler episode had a race go extinct.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:DS9 was, by far, my favorite star trek. Garak was straight out of a Le Carre novel. Odo was always watchable. Quark was amazing.
It was not in the same storytelling league as B5 however. That series was peerless. G'Kar and Londo were the most watchable odd couple ever, both Jurasik and Katsulas were just amazing to watch as their characters evolved.
I used to have a saying, a next gen filler episode involved Troi having a headache, a B5 filler episode had a race go extinct.
Also, feck the dominion, we have these guys.
What do you want?
"Who are you? "
DS9 was fine. I liked it the most of the non STOS story arcs. One can like both. I just prefer the more galactic story arc of B5. Thats ok. I like Star Wars, BSG, and Firefly, and Quark in Space too.
djones520 wrote:I've been working through Enterprise, but I think I'll do DS9 next. Never seen more then a few episodes of it, so it'll mostly be pretty new for me.
Well if you've sat through Enterprise I admire your tenacity, DS9 will be like a breath of fresh air by comparison.
djones520 wrote:I've been working through Enterprise, but I think I'll do DS9 next. Never seen more then a few episodes of it, so it'll mostly be pretty new for me.
Well if you've sat through Enterprise I admire your tenacity, DS9 will be like a breath of fresh air by comparison.
I second this. Sitting through Enterprise is a feat of courage and strength. You are god amongst men.
In retrospect this show is not as good as B5 (there should be a B5 thread by me somewhere from 3, 4 years back). But of course B5 wasn't part of a franchise and could actually change things.
And I'm still bothered by how in B5 every other world was represented by a civilian Ambassador but Earth had a uniformed military officer. Didn't anyone notice that doesn't work?
And I like Sisko more than Sheredon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Enterprise spoiler, no really, it's a spoiler, seriously.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:So I just started season 3. Starts with a 2 parter, the Defiant in the Gamma quadrant, fighting off armies of Jem Hadar, cool cool stuff.
Then they have the House of Quark... a Ferengi/Klingon episode. I braced for pain and...
In retrospect this show is not as good as B5 (there should be a B5 thread by me somewhere from 3, 4 years back). But of course B5 wasn't part of a franchise and could actually change things.
And I'm still bothered by how in B5 every other world was represented by a civilian Ambassador but Earth had a uniformed military officer. Didn't anyone notice that doesn't work?
And I like Sisko more than Sheredon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Enterprise spoiler, no really, it's a spoiler, seriously.
You were warned.
Spoiler:
It's all Riker's holodeck program.
Yeah.
That's how they end the last episode.
Computer end program.
I was kinda annoyed by that but at the same time i thought it was pretty funny...
I didn't mind, it let me forget that waste of a show.
You CANNOT have a show based on 'to boldly go where no one has gone before' and look backwards!
Which is why I can't stand the reboot either. That and the coinicidence-based plot. And the giant beer brewery on the Enterprise. And the chubby overbite Enterprise.
Medium of Death wrote:Woah, woah, woah! Simmer down! The reboot was actually quite entertaining, and I for one am looking forward to the sequel, so there!
As much as I agree with you, "The Giant Brewery" bugged the hell out of me. Seriously.
Medium of Death wrote:
Never watched B5, i'll need to correct my transgression. Maybe watch a couple of episodes online then go for a boxset if all is good.
As an ardent fan of B5, I warn you, the 1st season is ropey... It gets a lot better afterwards.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Boldly going where we went 50 years ago but this time with more product placement and oh yeah Kirk is 20 years old.
That's why I hate prequels in general. Don't get me started on Ep. I, II & III. We need to know what happens next a hell of a lot more than
how we got to here, IMHO. I found more to like than to hate on the ST reboot. Hell, Karl Urban's McCoy was almost worth it alone.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
Never watched B5, i'll need to correct my transgression. Maybe watch a couple of episodes online then go for a boxset if all is good.
As an ardent fan of B5, I warn you, the 1st season is ropey... It gets a lot better afterwards.
You bring up a good point concerning the Earth Alliance having a military ambassador. That is strange. Maybe only members of the military previously had sufficient contact with alien races?
Spoiler:
The Minbari requested that Sinclair be the ambassador. Sheridan replaced him because Clark perceived him as xenophobic, especially in regards to Minbari.
Amaya wrote:You bring up a good point concerning the Earth Alliance having a military ambassador. That is strange. Maybe only members of the military previously had sufficient contact with alien races?
Spoiler:
The Minbari requested that Sinclair be the ambassador. Sheridan replaced him because Clark perceived him as xenophobic, especially in regards to Minbari.
I can live it with it, but it's annoying that an otherwise well thought out show missed that problem. If Sheridan and Sinclair had resigned from the military and then been named Ambassadors it would be fine, it would even make sense. But tehy they couldn't jump into Star Furies and go fight battles.
Medium of Death wrote:Woah, woah, woah! Simmer down! The reboot was actually quite entertaining, and I for one am looking forward to the sequel, so there!
I always enjoyed DS9, not watched as much of it as I should have. Sisko hating Picard always annoyed me though.
Never watched B5, i'll need to correct my transgression. Maybe watch a couple of episodes online then go for a boxset if all is good.
* I liked the Enterprise reboot but more for the cool effects and the bad guys. * Yes you need to watch all four seasons of B5. If you don't recognize therewas actually a rushed 5th season then you will be happier. Don't stop if the first half of Season 1 seems like bad Star Trek. Its gets rolling in the second half. Nothing like flashbacks where the commander is watching the entire Earth Alliance military getting wiped out and having PTSD... *Mmm KK opened up something here on the DS 9 vs. B 5 characters. Frazzled's list of best recurring characters: -Sheridan better than Sherman YOU BETCHA. Sometimes he's so ragey he's positively feral. -Ivanova. Dark, mean, bitter, with neat one liners of doom, reminds me of me. Watching her lead the Whitstar fleet to wipe out the Dominion Fleet would have been epic. -OBrian. He's like, Everyman. -Garibaldi. Everyman II. My personal favorite after Ivanova. -Worf. Better than Marcus in attack mode. -Jadzeea. Easy on the eyes. Enough said -Kosh. Crytpic Kosh interacting with Garrick would have been interesting. -Married couples: Garrick and Quark, Molari and GKar. YES!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Amaya wrote:You bring up a good point concerning the Earth Alliance having a military ambassador. That is strange. Maybe only members of the military previously had sufficient contact with alien races?
Spoiler:
The Minbari requested that Sinclair be the ambassador. Sheridan replaced him because Clark perceived him as xenophobic, especially in regards to Minbari.
I can live it with it, but it's annoying that an otherwise well thought out show missed that problem. If Sheridan and Sinclair had resigned from the military and then been named Ambassadors it would be fine, it would even make sense. But tehy they couldn't jump into Star Furies and go fight battles.
On the flip side you could say both Molari and GKar were military as well. Molari was a military war hero, and GKar was a major player in the revolution. Kosh was, well...we are all Kosh.
Not a Trek fan, but DS9 was the one that I could sit down and watch. I guess because it was different to TOS, TNG and that horrific wide-awake nightmare that was Voyager. The series finale was unforgivable though - reusing special effects from Tears of the Prophets and other big DS9 battles? Lazy as feth!
I remember trying to watch an episode of B5 about a labor strike with the workers.
I remember thinking how much of a waste it was to move a "current" issue(or at least not
what I imagine to be a pressing issue in the far future!) to a scifi show. We should be seeing
fantastic new terrors and peril. Not hashing out workers rights. Well, unless they're an oppressed
alien race and there's a asteroid heading for the planet where they are having the negotiations!
alarmingrick wrote:I remember trying to watch an episode of B5 about a labor strike with the workers.
I remember thinking how much of a waste it was to move a "current" issue(or at least not
what I imagine to be a pressing issue in the far future!) to a scifi show. We should be seeing
fantastic new terrors and peril. Not hashing out workers rights. Well, unless they're an oppressed
alien race and there's a asteroid heading for the planet where they are having the negotiations!
/
Babylon 5 introduced the dedicated 'story arc' to US shows. That episode in question was a 'filler' that had some very subtle arc points - namely how things are starting to change on Earth and as Sinclair says, "not all for the best." This episode was critical to showing the growing discontent & divide between Sinclair and certain forces within Earthgov.
of corse, this is all vieled within the bigger theme of Earthgov simply saying ' the little guy!'
Babylon 5 had the disadvantage of being a show where you couldn't just catch any old episode and think, "this is fething awsome!" By the nature of the deep story arc, you have to sit down and watch it right from the pilot movie 'The Gathering' through to the end of Season 4. (the 5th season kinda sucked and felt purely tacked on because JMS never even expected to make it through season 4!)
With B5 it very much is like watching a novel on screen and each was even titled as such;
The Gathering pilot movie = author's introduction. (only a couple major arc points, namely revolving around Sinclair & the Earth-Minbari war + what the hell are these Vorlons?!)
Season 1 - Signs and Portents = Character intros and a few hints at where the story is going.
Season 2 - The Coming of Shadows = Big foreshadowing of the epic conflict that's about to begin.
Season 3 - Point of No Return = Climax where the really starts to hit the fan and the battlelines are clearly drawn, ending with a massive surprise almost no one ever expected!
Season 4 - No Retreat, No Surrender = The final battles and the dust settling as a 'new age' begins.
The first season could get boring in places, but you were really rewarded by a couple key moments early on, and then spoiled as things got going by episodes 118 - 122! The season ender was epic in how it set up so much of what was to come too!
Season two answers a few questions and poses about a hundred more! Season three is full of almost non-stop action and ends with an absolutely massive & shocking revelation. And season 4 ends off pretty much all the lose ends and the various wars.
I will say that season 5 was just plain bad. Partly due to some major casting changes and re-jiggling of character roles, partly because JMS admitted he never even really thought he'd get that far! There were a few good moments, but overall it was a let down and didn't have anywhere near the feeling of true epicness that seasons 3 & 4 had.
As for absolute terrors... They were called by many names and they were insanely terrifying! No Star Trek shows ever had entire races callously wiped out because of simply following the wrong ideology and/or being in the wrong place at the wrong time!
And the peril in B5 is simply a recurring war that spans the entire galaxcy and wipes out millions of lives!
If you establish in S3 E1 the Defiant has no science labs and is a dedicated warship...
You should not have it doing scientific research in episode 8.
Just a thought here.
I mean this is obviously an alien of week/love affair of the week/technobabble of the week show but at least try not to make it painfully bad from the first scene.
Ah well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Experiment - point of information, DS9 did have entire races being wiped out for being in the wrong place
Automatically Appended Next Post: On this episode...
"Meridian" is based on Brigadoon, a musical about a magical Scottish village that appears only once every one hundred years. Co-Executive Producer Ira Steven Behr, an admirer of Brigadoon, confessed to originating the idea about making an episode based on the musical. Of his idea to do a Star Trek show based on Brigadoon, Behr says "I am a moron."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another good quote
Many members of the DS9 staff consider this episode to be the worst of the season. For example, writer Hilary J. Bader says "Of all the stories I've done for Star Trek, "Meridian" is my least favorite"; writer/producer Ronald D. Moore claims "I don't think anyone likes the show. I don't think we liked the show. This one just went wrong. It never jelled"; and visual effects supervisor Glenn Neufeld says "A classic case of making it up as we go. I don't want to talk about it." (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)
Well they sent the Defiant to survey some systems.
It sort of makes sense, you can't send a lightly armed runabout in and with its cloak and weapons the Defiant made sense, but y'know all you need is a line or two 'I can't do this with the limited resources on the Defiant' but no mapping dimensional anomalies, probing suns, zapping people into other dimensions with a transporter... Apparently all of that can be done off of one console.
Now on the 2-parter Past Tense when Sisko et al are beamed into the distant future year 2030 when homeless are herded into camps. It's another anomaly of the week episode but again, the Defiant - which has NO SCIENCE LABS - has not trouble rigging up an ad hoc time machine.
Just annoying.
Why make a point of saying something and then ignore it a few weeks later? Heck the line could have been 'The Defiant barely has any science labs' and it would all be cool.
Funny what you notice seeing a show in one sitting rather than over a year.
Ya well don't forget that Star Fleet isn't really a military organization (as evidenced by the defiant's weirdness). It's an army of scientists and astrophysicists. The stupidest people in Star Fleet are equivalent to modern day doctors. They tend to naturally MacGyver everything when left to their own devices.
I'm a huge star trek geek and I've watched every show in its entirety...except DS9. It's by far the worst IMO and in every episode I'm always finding myself wishing something terrible would happen to all the crew, preferably a nasty death. I just want them all to die, I guess that makes me a bad person, lol.
Ok well it's not all bad, Quark is a great bit of comic relief. Other than that it's just more star trek. You seen one you seen em all.
I just could never get around how silly all Star Trek space battles were! No real tactics, just 'evasion pattern gamma, attack pattern omega & fire all torpedoes!'
At first I hated DS9 the most. I thought it was the worst Star Trek. Then a few years later they played the entire series end to end one episode per night and I just sort of watched it as part of my bedtime routine. That's when I started to appreciate it a lot more. It was hard to follow all that politics on a weekly basis. Plus I was older and political intrigue wasn't as boring as when I was young.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:At first I hated DS9 the most. I thought it was the worst Star Trek. Then a few years later they played the entire series end to end one episode per night and I just sort of watched it as part of my bedtime routine. That's when I started to appreciate it a lot more. It was hard to follow all that politics on a weekly basis. Plus I was older and political intrigue wasn't as boring as when I was young.
If you liked DS9, then I would recomend you give Babylon 5 a good try as it's a much more grimdark & gritty series that has an element of true 'epicness' about it!
KamikazeCanuck wrote:At first I hated DS9 the most. I thought it was the worst Star Trek. Then a few years later they played the entire series end to end one episode per night and I just sort of watched it as part of my bedtime routine. That's when I started to appreciate it a lot more. It was hard to follow all that politics on a weekly basis. Plus I was older and political intrigue wasn't as boring as when I was young.
If you liked DS9, then I would recomend you give Babylon 5 a good try as it's a much more grimdark & gritty series that has an element of true 'epicness' about it!
You must be new to this thread. I found B5 boring.
Don't like alternate universes, usually it's a sign that the writers are too shackled and have to break the laws of reality just so they can change something. But they are fun.
Basically they took they original idea (everyone is evil) and moved it up 100 years. Thanks to Kirk and Spock the evil Earth Empire started reforming and was quickly overrun by the Klingons and Cardasians so now people are slaves.
Message - don't try and be nice.
But the icky message aside they are fun. The cast is obviously having a blast playing Pirate Sisko, hero Nog and bisexual Dominatrix Kira.
So there's that...
"I think you'll find that random and undeserved executions will keep your work force motivated"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Did Sisko just sleep with Dax?
If you establish in S3 E1 the Defiant has no science labs and is a dedicated warship...
You should not have it doing scientific research in episode 8.
Just a thought here.
I mean this is obviously an alien of week/love affair of the week/technobabble of the week show but at least try not to make it painfully bad from the first scene.
Ah well.
Dear Kyoto,
Star Trek is one of the most internally and externally inconsistent shows of all time. It makes GW look positively regimented.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You CANNOT have a show based on 'to boldly go where no one has gone before' and look backwards!
By a similar token, isn't that what makes DS9 anathema to Star Trek? Can't exactly "boldly go" if you're "boldly sitting in a space station". There's no "Trek" in "Station[ary]."
They also dropped the ball big time in the new movie by not turning around and seeing where the singularity would take them....their escape was just stupid.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You CANNOT have a show based on 'to boldly go where no one has gone before' and look backwards!
By a similar token, isn't that what makes DS9 anathema to Star Trek? Can't exactly "boldly go" if you're "boldly sitting in a space station". There's no "Trek" in "Station[ary]."
I hear that argument used in criticisms of DS9 quite frequently, most often from people who haven't really watched the show. They have roundabouts in the early seasons, and from season 3 on they have the Defiant and are scooting around the Gamma quadrant as often as they are on the station. Exploration of the Gamma quadrant is a huge part of DS9, not to mention the cultural exploration and discovery angle due to DS9 basically being the gateway between the Alpha and Gamma quadrant, so a lot of different things end up coming to them as well.
What follows is a spoiler!
Spoiler:
For awhile, the station is recaptured by the Cardassians and the Dominion and the Federation isn't even on the station, but flying around to different stations and rendezvous points and doing various missions. They also do several joint missions with the Klingons, and some of the characters spend a few different episodes on board Klingon Birds of Prey.
Basically, saying that the crew doesn't go anywhere in DS9 because they're "boldly sitting on a space station" is as silly and inaccurate as saying the Next Generation crew doesn't go anywhere because they're sitting on the Enterprise the whole time.
I'd say the Defiant probably has better guns and would blow a White Star out of the sky (or rather space), except that I think the Defiant would have a really hard time actually Hitting the much faster and more maneuverable White Star. Open/even battlefield, I think I'd go with White Star as well.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Hmmmm, Defiant vs White Star (both containing full compliment of regular cast crew)... /ponder...
I'm going with White Star.
White Star. Worse to worse just jump and its adios muchachos. Repair damage, jump out and ambush them. Of course it would be interesting to see how they handle the Defiant's cloaking field. They did have Vorlon sensors which are arguably the best or top 5 in galactic history.
Now what would be epic would be a whitestar fleet led by Ivanova vs. a Defiant fleet led by Sisko. Think of all the legendary monologues!
Aduro wrote:I'd say the Defiant probably has better guns and would blow a White Star out of the sky (or rather space), except that I think the Defiant would have a really hard time actually Hitting the much faster and more maneuverable White Star. Open/even battlefield, I think I'd go with White Star as well.
I'm not that familiar with Babylon 5, but don't forget the Defiant has a cloaking device, so it could potentially get the drop on a White Star.
Aduro wrote:I'd say the Defiant probably has better guns and would blow a White Star out of the sky (or rather space), except that I think the Defiant would have a really hard time actually Hitting the much faster and more maneuverable White Star. Open/even battlefield, I think I'd go with White Star as well.
I'm not that familiar with Babylon 5, but don't forget the Defiant has a cloaking device, so it could potentially get the drop on a White Star.
Nerd fight! Its on bro!
Me likey the Defiant, its what ST should be when in badass mode. The White Star is pretty equivalent actually, although a good bit larger. They had advanced sensors on them that could do things like detect folds in other dimensions (folds in hyperspace). Their weaponry may have been better as a couple could take a Shadow cruiser and we've seen what Shadow cruisers could do.
Both are epic at doing the long banking turn attack. Yes!
Now for some nerdgasm
Frazzled wrote:Of course it would be interesting to see how they handle the Defiant's cloaking field. They did have Vorlon sensors which are arguably the best or top 5 in galactic history.
I think the cloaking device would be pointless because of this.
White Stars come equipped with either a trio of alpha level Minbari telepaths or the deluxe vorlon upgraded Gigapsyker, pictured above, available in sexy redhead... She'd sniff the ship out and get some chump (obrien) to drop the shields... (it can also be argued she could fold the defiant into interesting origami shapes).
Secondary point of interest, vorlon armour plating is alive and learns to adapt from one shot to another, the defiant's guns would have less and less effect over time.
I also think that frontal beam, the pulsing one, which grows in intensity, would just overwhelm the shields.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Kyoto should not watch that Defiant video, otherwise it'll spoil quite a bit.
Thx
I'm psyched, sometime soon I should finally hit the point where I stopped watching DS9 (I was in Japan) and it will all be brand new.
As for Defiant vs White Star people forget just how advanced Star Trek is compared to any other SF universe. Yeah it's mainly because of the budget pressures and the age of Star Trek but the combination of shields, transporters, replicators and anti-matter make even a Federation Shuttle more advanced than anything I remember seeing in Babylon 5 (or for that matter Star Wars or most of 40k). I mean they can create and destroy matter, taking you apart and the quantum level and reassembling you is so common and safe people do it to get out of the hassle of flying a shuttle.
They don't always (or ever) use this tech to its full advantage, and they seem behind Star Wars on robots and AI but I think in a one on one fight any ST universe ship will pound its counterpart.
Which is not to say that therefore ST is better, far from it, but if the question who'd win, I'd go with the incredibly more advanced folks who can rig up time machines with their coffee maker.
Defiant vs White Star
"Captain there's a small ship approaching, it doesn't have shields, is powered by fusion and seems to lack any warp drive."
"Hmm, must be a life pod. Beam the crew directly to the brig."
Secondary point of interest, vorlon armour plating is alive and learns to adapt from one shot to another, the defiant's guns would have less and less effect over time.
It's possible that the Defiant could modify its phaser banks to be set on a rotating modulation, similar to what Picard's crew did with their phaser rifles to combat the Borg, but on a larger scale. That could potentially increase the number of effective shots they could fire before the Vorion armor adapted to their weapons.
Also, there are telepaths in the Star Trek universe. Maybe they could get one on board to help cloud the mental presence of the Defiant's crew when cloaked?
I still think the Defiant could possibly get the drop on them. Would those fancy sensors be able to detect a cloaked Defiant if they weren't actively looking for it?
Hordini wrote:
Also, there are telepaths in the Star Trek universe. Maybe they could get one on board to help cloud the mental presence of the Defiant's crew when cloaked?
Telepathic races in ST are very underwhelming, they just communicate by thought. The principle race being bajorans, who can read surface thoughts and preempt what possible actions others may take. Telepaths in B5 are able to make others do their bidding, manipulate and cause pain. Lyta Alexander is a vorlon doomsday weapon, able to enslave multiple targets, lash out with force enough to damage the station and she was only just starting to unlock her powers by the end of the series. Put a bajoran up against Lyta and she'd make it all squishy.
@ Kid_K, remember that whilst the younger races in B5 are certainly less powerful than their ST opposites, the older races were massively powerful with many hidden technologies that were never fully uncovered in the series. We know that the vorlons can traverse several different dimensions (something the borg had only started experimenting with in the ST series), the beam weapons used by the shadows, vorlons and white star ships are certainly more destructive than the ST ones.
Frazzled wrote:Of course it would be interesting to see how they handle the Defiant's cloaking field. They did have Vorlon sensors which are arguably the best or top 5 in galactic history.
I think the cloaking device would be pointless because of this.
White Stars come equipped with either a trio of alpha level Minbari telepaths or the deluxe vorlon upgraded Gigapsyker, pictured above, available in sexy redhead... She'd sniff the ship out and get some chump (obrien) to drop the shields... (it can also be argued she could fold the defiant into interesting origami shapes).
Secondary point of interest, vorlon armour plating is alive and learns to adapt from one shot to another, the defiant's guns would have less and less effect over time.
I also think that frontal beam, the pulsing one, which grows in intensity, would just overwhelm the shields.
Good points MGS. I forgot about psyker goodness.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Hordini wrote:
Also, there are telepaths in the Star Trek universe. Maybe they could get one on board to help cloud the mental presence of the Defiant's crew when cloaked?
Telepathic races in ST are very underwhelming, they just communicate by thought. The principle race being bajorans, who can read surface thoughts and preempt what possible actions others may take. Telepaths in B5 are able to make others do their bidding, manipulate and cause pain. Lyta Alexander is a vorlon doomsday weapon, able to enslave multiple targets, lash out with force enough to damage the station and she was only just starting to unlock her powers by the end of the series. Put a bajoran up against Lyta and she'd make it all squishy.
@ Kid_K, remember that whilst the younger races in B5 are certainly less powerful than their ST opposites, the older races were massively powerful with many hidden technologies that were never fully uncovered in the series. We know that the vorlons can traverse several different dimensions (something the borg had only started experimenting with in the ST series), the beam weapons used by the shadows, vorlons and white star ships are certainly more destructive than the ST ones.
Plus the Vorlons had the equivalent of the Death Star for all your planet killing needs...
I think beam weapons in B5 seemed more devestating because:
A - no shields
B - A show with CGI can afford to use more ships and blow them up more than one using models
Since B is an out of universe reason A indicates Star Trek weapons are just as powerful but tend to hit tougher targets.
Don't forget ST uses force fields for things like jail doors, outer windows, and a structural integrity field to hold the ship together. For them force fields are as common as glass. It's a whole other level of tech!
I'd argue (wow it's been a pong time since I argued nerd-tech, it's fun) that in the TOS we don't hear about structural integrity fields, internal force fields and the like so they were not as significant.
Once you get into the Next Gen era though ships have so many redundant sheilds they can still take hits even if the main shields are gone.
It's like me saying 'my internet is down' by which i mean my desktop is down so I only have my tablet, blackberry and netbook to rely on
I find the B5 weapons aren't as well detailed. I don't remember them ever utilizing sheilds and their guns seem to be plasma guns. I think White Stars are battleships and the Defiant is more like a frigate but if they don't have shields then it's not even close.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I find the B5 weapons aren't as well detailed. I don't remember them ever utilizing sheilds and their guns seem to be plasma guns. I think White Stars are battleships and the Defiant is more like a frigate but if they don't have shields then it's not even close.
From what I can determine they do have shields, but they conform tightly to the shape of the hull, rather than the bubble shields of ST.
purplefood wrote:Star Trek doesn't seem to have the same classifications for ships that we currently use...
E.g. Destroyer, Cruiser, battleship etc...
Sorry but as you may have guessed I have a bit of a passion for fictional space navies, Star Trek was always very much Hornblower in Space so yes it does have categories.
Consitution, Galaxy and Soverign (the 3 Enterprises) are heavy cruisers
Defiant was an escort ship
Starfleet does't have battleships because Starfleet is not a military Really
It isn't
Those are peaceful guns.
purplefood wrote:Star Trek doesn't seem to have the same classifications for ships that we currently use...
E.g. Destroyer, Cruiser, battleship etc...
Sorry but as you may have guessed I have a bit of a passion for fictional space navies, Star Trek was always very much Hornblower in Space so yes it does have categories.
Consitution, Galaxy and Soverign (the 3 Enterprises) are heavy cruisers
Defiant was an escort ship
Starfleet does't have battleships because Starfleet is not a military Really
It isn't
Those are peaceful guns.
Yeah i just found a page listing them...
It'd seem sensible to have something big and scary so you can at least defend yourself...
Ya, well the Sovereign is a very powerful Totally-Not-A-Battleship Battleship. The Defiant and Akira class ships are actual warships something Starfleet had to bring in because of the Dominion War. Sovreigns and Akiras are probably better warships than Defiants if we're going for shootiest Starfleet vessel.
Hordini wrote:
Basically, saying that the crew doesn't go anywhere in DS9 because they're "boldly sitting on a space station" is as silly and inaccurate as saying the Next Generation crew doesn't go anywhere because they're sitting on the Enterprise the whole time.
Not even close. B5 (since it's been mentioned once or twice) illustrated the difference on the episode with the explorer vessel. The B5 crew certainly traveled all over the place, but they were still tied down to a station, which was lamented by Sheridan. When the explorer ship showed up, he made everybody take note since they may never see one again. All they do is go where no man has gone before. If they're seen in normal space, it's because they need to resupply. Huge difference. Now, the ST universe may not work exactly like that, but there's still a huge difference between the Enterprise and DS9. I wasn't a frequent viewer, but every time I turned to it, the shows typically centered on their namesake. Even if they do go outside, it's still a show about a space station, not an exploration vessel.
Getting near the end of season 3, Kai Winn is becoming a major character.
She's this oily, slimy, combination of a televangelist and a politician with a great fake smile and flattery and lies for every occasion.
She's as annoying as @#$% but that's the point.
She's up there with Garek.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Ya, well the Sovereign is a very powerful Totally-Not-A-Battleship Battleship.
Star Fleet is a peaceful organization on a mission of exploration!
Now buy our stuff or else!
The Defiant and Akira class ships are actual warships something Starfleet had to bring in because of the Dominion War. Sovreigns and Akiras are probably better warships than Defiants if we're going for shootiest Starfleet vessel.
I was just reading about the Akira, 15 torpedo tubes! Fifteen! Deep hurting!
I like to imagine the real world tension between Roddenberry and the utopians who want ST to be about peace and love, and the studios and fans who want zapping and exploding is reflected in-universe.
It would be a cool story with a pre-borg invasion captain and a post-borg 1st officer clashing over the soul of Star Fleet.
Frazzled wrote:Yea but when your shields are off the ships seem to do pretty well. Its a problem...
Of course if we're talking STOS pretty much when the shields go down the next hit blows you into itty itty itty bits so that supports your argument.
You know what I never understood?
It's the fething future, it's a fly-by-wire system, and you have a giant screen in front of the bridge instead of a window to look outside with.
Why in the name of all that is holy has nobody ever stopped to think "You know what, everytime the shields fail somebody just shoots the dome at the center top of the disk. Maybe we should not put all the vital crew and control systems one hull breach away from certain doom. Let's stick them somewhere deep inside the ship!"
It's the fething future, it's a fly-by-wire system, and you have a giant screen in front of the bridge instead of a window to look outside with.
Why in the name of all that is holy has nobody ever stopped to think "You know what, everytime the shields fail somebody just shoots the dome at the center top of the disk. Maybe we should not put all the vital crew and control systems one hull breach away from certain doom. Let's stick them somewhere deep inside the ship!"
That is part of the real world design idiocy that we constantly see in scifi...
We're building 5 mile long armour plated warbastards! Lets stick the bridge up on the top like it's a boat!! No highly maneuverable xenos filth are going to target that!
Frazzled wrote:Yea but when your shields are off the ships seem to do pretty well. Its a problem...
Of course if we're talking STOS pretty much when the shields go down the next hit blows you into itty itty itty bits so that supports your argument.
You know what I never understood?
It's the fething future, it's a fly-by-wire system, and you have a giant screen in front of the bridge instead of a window to look outside with.
Why in the name of all that is holy has nobody ever stopped to think "You know what, everytime the shields fail somebody just shoots the dome at the center top of the disk. Maybe we should not put all the vital crew and control systems one hull breach away from certain doom. Let's stick them somewhere deep inside the ship!"
Well if I was going for my no-prize I would say that given the power of weapons in Star Trek (where hand phasers can disintegrate boulders) if your shields go down then you're fethed regardless of where the bridge is. Another 100' of steel is not going to help.
And yeah Akiras are cool. Anyone play the Star Trek Legacy video game? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Legacy That let you test drive all the Star Trek ship, I thought it was pretty fun.
I like how deep space nine wasn' t so naively rightous like TNG...it was raw and realistic, how I pictured the federation to actually exist. That being said, TOS is still my favorite.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:So, B5 Crusade. Worth watching or not?
It was very different. Ship based. Had a lot of tie ins to B5. On the positive they were on what might have been sconsidered one of the most powerful ships in Galactic history...
I need to find somewhere to watch Crusade online. I've seen a few episodes of it but not the whole series, short lived as it was. So worth mentioning that one of the B5 movies ties into it.
AduroT wrote:I need to find somewhere to watch Crusade online. I've seen a few episodes of it but not the whole series, short lived as it was. So worth mentioning that one of the B5 movies ties into it.
That was Call To Arms, wasn't it? Basically setting up the B5 universe for Gideon and his crew.
I thought that first season was ok but not outstanding. It would have been nice to see where JMS wanted to go with the series; shame he never got the backing he deseved.
AduroT wrote:I need to find somewhere to watch Crusade online. I've seen a few episodes of it but not the whole series, short lived as it was. So worth mentioning that one of the B5 movies ties into it.
That was Call To Arms, wasn't it? Basically setting up the B5 universe for Gideon and his crew.
I thought that first season was ok but not outstanding. It would have been nice to see where JMS wanted to go with the series; shame he never got the backing he deseved.
OK, tip 1 for watching DS9, skip any Dax-centered episodes.
Terry Farrel is easy on the eyes but so far all the episodes where she took center stage have sucked. Bad science, bad sociology, and well... she ain't that great an actress.
Even the lesbian love episode is just painful to watch.
I mean the whole premise is that Dax cannot be wtih her former wife because it is taboo to associate with friends from previous hosts. Punishable by exile! OK, fine.
Except she's serving under her best friend from a past host!
Oh and Defiant, which has no science labs and is a pure warship... is doing science again.
So after 3 seasons of 'O'Brian must suffer!' with season 4 the motto seems to be 'Worf must suffer!'
So he gets exiled by the Klingons, his whole house dishonored.
Then his brother shows up, asking to be killed to restore his honor.
Then he's accused of massacring hundreds of civilians.
But O'Brian gets to suffer too. Tonight's episode has O'Brian imprisoned by aliens who implant the memories of 30 years of prison in his mind and then let him go with all the trauma.
After an awesome episode where the Defiant takes on a fleet of Klingons in the mirror universe (so we get dominatrix Kira, pirate Bashir and all the other fun twists) now I have the one-two punch of suck.
An episode spotlighting Luxanna Troi AND Jake Sisko.
Sometimes we must pay the price for our little pleasures.
5th season has been a bit uneven. It starts with a roar, a Dominion invasion of the Alpha Quadrant, a renewed alliance with the Klingons, lots of cool stuff.
And then... well we get an Odo relationship episode, then a Ferengi love story, and it's like guys, the war? You remember the war? Right?
But there are some gems, we learn Bashir's dark secret. And it's rather well done, it seems totally foreshadowed but really the writers made it up on the spot. The actor was pissed when they told him too.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I really didn't like that actually. After that (if we're talking about the same thing) Bashir becomes this annoying super-doctor with special powers.
Oh does he? Yuk.
I finally reached the point where I'm seeing episodes I never saw the first time so my foreknowledge is a bit limited. I know the big stuff, Dax dies (SPOILER!) but comes back as a pixie but not so much the details.
Frazzled wrote:Watched most of the miniseries premier again of BSG with some rum and popcorn. I still contend Season 1 is some of the best TV sci fi ever.
Had to go BSG when I found to my horror my Father's Day presnt of Predators blu ray doesn't work on a normal DVD. Will have to wait until I get back to Austin to watch it, covered with wiener dogs.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The internet tricked me into watching Babylon 5. I'll never get all those hours back it has barely one watchable season. I'll never trust the internet again.
So you like the Mass Effect 3 endings and dislike Babylon 5? I think it's safe to say you have terrible taste in science fiction.
Right back at ya, buddy.
Yeah, I thank you for all those wonderful comic conversations KC, but I'm with Amaya on this one.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Enterprise spoiler, no really, it's a spoiler, seriously.
You were warned.
Spoiler:
It's all Riker's holodeck program.
Yeah.
That's how they end the last episode.
Computer end program.
Really? Man, I just need to see that!
Hordini wrote:Also, there are people who get headaches in the Star Trek universe.
Fixed that for you.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:It would be a cool story with a pre-borg invasion captain and a post-borg 1st officer clashing over the soul of Star Fleet.
That does sound like a great story. Did anyone ever read all those expanded universe novels and comics? I think they're doing a lot with the TNG and DS9 crews.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:So, B5 Crusade. Worth watching or not?
No. I watched it a few years ago right after Bab5 and thought it was terrible.
Can't remember why though.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Has the human race ever created anything with more pure geeky joy than Trials and Tribble-ations?
I always felt that Deep Space 9 (although quite watchable) reminded me of Coronation Street, but in space. It wasn't until Season 4 onwards that it seemed to really pull together with what seemed like a proper storyline rather than a mishmash of random episodes.
As for Babylon 5, I bought the box set many years ago and have never regretted it. One of the best storylines from start to finish you could ever hope for.
Well season 5 was a disappointment, a prolonged stall and delay of the war we've been promised for several seasons.
But the ending and the Season 6 opening was worth it.
If you've not seen it...
Spoiler:
Season 5 ends with them losing the station to the Dominion/Cardasians and the Defiant leaving to join a HUGE Federation/Klingon fleet and vows of revenge.
Season 6 opens with the same fleet limping home, ships on fire, ships half destroyed.
Awesome.
Seriously if you're looking to jump in this is a great place.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Well season 5 was a disappointment, a prolonged stall and delay of the war we've been promised for several seasons.
But the ending and the Season 6 opening was worth it.
If you've not seen it...
Spoiler:
Season 5 ends with them losing the station to the Dominion/Cardasians and the Defiant leaving to join a HUGE Federation/Klingon fleet and vows of revenge.
Season 6 opens with the same fleet limping home, ships on fire, ships half destroyed.
Awesome.
Seriously if you're looking to jump in this is a great place.
Spoiler:
The part at the end of the last episode of Season 5 where Gul Dukat finds Sisko's baseball left on his desk is one of the most awesome moments in the series.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:OK, Super Doctor Intelligence Powers Bashir is really annoying.
Though the episode is clever.
There are two characters from shows that I watched that I will skip through an episode to avoid. Bashir from DS9 and Baltar from BSG (OK, so Nerys is also annoying, and so was Kai Wynn.)
There's a reason that both Bashir and Baltar from BSG are both annoying, though.
It's in the blood. The actors are related - they're cousins or something.
Sisko's on a mission to go no bloody place He loiters on a space station above Bajoran space The wormhole's opened up and now they come from near and far We'll keep the booze but please send back the fething Jem-hadar
I think I figured out what the problem was, they were making far too many episodes. They were doing the standard 26 episode season when really they only had the budget, time and ideas for half that. So pretty much by the end of the teaster I can spot what's padding and what's a 'real' episode.
When they are on they are on, ships blowing up by the dozen, fate of the universe at stake... cool stuff. When they're not... it's all Molly time travel shennanigans, or sitting around listening to the radio.
Haven't decided about the hologram lounge singer yet. He's kind of being rammed down our throats with everyone saying how awesome he is, but then again I love the songs and it changes the tone of the series so I can let him pass.
Of course some of the real episodes are misses. Dax's death is terribad. (oh yeah, spoiler) First off they bring in the Pah'Wraiths another supernatural group that comes out of nowhere and poor Dax dies of red special effects. And her death accomplished nothing, she walks out of a doorway, gets zapped, dies.
Already liking Pixie Dax though. Much less Mary Suey.
EDIT-OK, this is annoying, so all the men on DS9 were so love with Dax they're taking off on a suicide mission to honor her memory. Worf OK, he's her husband and crazy like that, Bashir, sure why not, he's an arrogant prick, O'Brien?? well he's a stand up guy and isn't going to let his buddies march off to die. Quark!!! Seriously? And they let him come? I guess I should be happy they didn't throw in Morn, Garak and Odo too.
Well I finished season 7 and well... it's good but disappointing.
Some thoughts...
Pixie Chick Dax-The best change in the 7th season, the polar opposite of the uber competent Jadzia Dax, neurotic, nervous, eccentric, another solid flawed character for the mix.
The Shapeshifters/Founders - Uh, what happened to them? Yeah, yeah, plague and stuff but they go from being a major scary threat who've infiltrated Starfleet and the Klingons to being one middle aged lady with a skin condition. Not a good send off for them. They should have at least mentioned somewhere that Starfleet found a way to identify them.
The Breen - Huh? No seriously huh? They come out of nowhere, can disable any ship with their superweapon, are all 'mysterious' and stuff... they seem like a Mary Sue enemy. Just random 'cool' traits rolled together. Except they're all wearing Princess Leia's bounty hunter helmet. After the Founders, Cardassians and Jem Hadar they're just not impressive.
Vic Fontaine - Torn on this one. Like the Breen he's a Mary Sue, a cool Tony Bennett/Frank Sinatra kind of guy, who's also smarter than any other hologram and solves everyone's problems. But he mostly works. And I liked the music. So he was OK.
Fun Episodes - One thing they got right was the need for fun among the galactic war. Jazz, baseball, casino heists, even the Ferengi episodes all kicked into this.
Quark's ending - Rom becomes Nagus, he's stuck in the bar. Awesome.
Kai Wynn and Gul Dukat - Old people having sex. But then again awesome villain team up. Except for...
Pah Wraiths - WTF, no seriously WTF. Totally generic demon dudes living in a fiery hell cave who do nothing remotely evil except kill Dax. What was the point of them? Was an intergalactic war not enough? Even in the last episode it felt like we were done, the Dominion was beaten, it was party time and then Sisko goes off to fight the Pah Wraiths just because.
O'Brien's ending - wow his kids and wife make it out alive, I would never have figured that. Cheers to the most successful Red Shirt (well technically a Yellow Belly) in Trek history.
Odo's ending - pretty much how it had to end. Well done.
Garak's ending - Great character but sort of a generic ending.
Worf's ending - Ambassador Worf? Cool. Michael Dorn was great through the whole series.
Bashir's ending - aw he gets the girl.
Bajor/Kira's ending - Uh guys in episode one you said Sisko's mission was to get Bajor into the Federation. It almost makes it but Sisko goes nuts. Would have been nice to end on Bajor entering the Federation.
Sisko's ending - Geeze once he started planning his retirement home I knew it was over. But still, after all that 'you will only know sorrow' stuff it boils down he has to live in the wormhole for a while but might be back any time. Lame.
Overall - A 4 of 5 stars, and a high 4 at that. Fantastic work by the supporting cast. It's interesting how many of them (O'Brien, Quark, Garak) were originally one shot characters who made it to the top through sheer talent. Not up to the level of the BSG reboot (which shared producer Roger Moore) or it's contemporary Babylon 5 but certainly a solid, solid show. The best of Star Trek.
Much of the ending of the series annoyed me. Especially the Sisko wormhole limbo.
Way to pay back your series hero.
I actually liked the breen though, especially their asymmetrical ships. I also approved of them just living in isolation then deciding out of the blue to just hop onto the dominion success train to conquer the quadrant.
the little guy!'
I watched it a few years ago right after Bab5 and thought it was terrible.
