HQ

Big Mek - KFF- 75
Big Mek - KFF -75

Troops
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225

Heavy Support
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125

Elites
Nobs - Cybork -painboy/PK Banner/PK/PK BP/ Big choppa/normal -175 - BW Same as heavy -125
Nobs - Cybork -painboy/PK Banner/PK/PK BP/ Big choppa/normal - 175 -BW Same as heavy -125

Fast Attack
1 Deff kopta TL rokkit -45
1 deff kopta Tl Rokkit -45

So I think this is the standard list I got down to fast attack and didn't really know where to slam home the last 100 points so there are 10 to spare could I put a skorcha/shoota on the normal nob for a bit more DAKKA in on the wagons? Let me know what you guys think!

Well the Boys mobs need to be down to 20 so they fit in the BW so that is another 180points. I presume the Meks are in the Nob Squads. Maybe add a Grot Mob, reserve then throw them on a home objective.
Personally I like Rokkit Buggies in my fast slots but some people swear by Alpha Strike Deffkoptas (Rokkits/Buzzsaw) which can also Outflank.

Gharron wrote:HQ

Big Mek - KFF- 75
Big Mek - KFF -75
These are underpriced, they are 85 pts.
Troops
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
Like someone has allready said. they can't fit in the Battlewagons. They need to be dropped to 20. Are they sluggas or Shootas? If they are Shootas might want to add a bshoota or 2.
Heavy Support
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Not bad. Could use plank and plates. If a Mek goes in here then you don't need Grot riggers as he can fix it even easier then the grots can.
Elites
Nobs - Cybork -painboy/PK Banner/PK/PK BP/ Big choppa/normal -175 - BW Same as heavy -125
Nobs - Cybork -painboy/PK Banner/PK/PK BP/ Big choppa/normal - 175 -BW Same as heavy -125
I think you might have one to many PK's. I think 2 is more then enough. but this is a personal choice of course.
Fast Attack
1 Deff kopta TL rokkit -45
1 deff kopta Tl Rokkit -45
Agree with Woodhouse, make them Rokkit buggies. They will help you a bit more. They can protect the BW's from assaults. If you want the Koptas, then the alpha strike koptas could be the answer.
So I think this is the standard list I got down to fast attack and didn't really know where to slam home the last 100 points so there are 10 to spare could I put a skorcha/shoota on the normal nob for a bit more DAKKA in on the wagons? Let me know what you guys think!

I would honestly not put the Meks in with the Nobs. It makes there BW's such a big target. not that they won't be anyways. But you don't want both Nobs, and Mek in one tank. Drop a Boy from each boys mob and put the Mek with them. If you make the boys sluggas then make sure you keep the Mek in the BW when they hop out to assault. He should never leave the BW unless he has to. I don't think Grots are really a good answer for you. I don't feel grots add anything to an Ork army. I personally hate them. Some lootas could be a nice addition too if you have the points. I love lootas but I have not use lootas in a BW list. I know most like them in there to help open transports and stuff.

So if you recalculate the errors in your list you'll free up some points for other things. I really like including some Lootas in my BW lists. I usually put 2 squads of 5. Since you only have 1 elite slot open you should try getting 12+ Lootas in the list in my opinion.

I also think that if you are to put more points in the wagons you should look at RPJ and/or AP.

And I am another person who prefers Rokkit Buggies over Deffkoptas.

Me personally I think RPJ is pointless. An extra inch is not worth the points that you are spending. Your Waaagh! should make up for that inch and much more actually.

Personally, I'm a big fan of a Burnawagon. 10 burnas in a Deffrolla BW obliterates anything it gets close to. But that's just me.

I reworked the points last night and the list with the adjustments is 1809. I have to work in 191 points and I kept running into the problem of not being able to finish a squad I could get 3 rokkit buggies and maybe lootas? I dunno it was a hard choice XD

Gotta disagree with RPJ post, on a wagon with a rolla you really really need it. Mainly because an extra inch can be a big difference in running it into stuff and anything that is assulting the BW needs a 6 to hit if you move over 6 inchs....so stick with the rpj on wagon rollers.

Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

And the Meks are going in with the Nobs? Thats bad, drop 2 boys and put Meks in with them. Wheres the planks on the Heavy BW's? They have PK in them too.

My Problem with RPJ is cost for an inch and actually painting red. I don't want red on my vehicles.

@Madmax: The burna wagon is nasty, but it is target number one for most people( at least those that knows what it does). Its just hard to justify taking it anymore.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

@Madmax: The burna wagon is nasty, but it is target number one for most people( at least those that knows what it does). Its just hard to justify taking it anymore.

Well that's true, but in a list like this where you're running a lot of BWs, I think it works towards your favor because you're maximizing the threats. If you split up the meks to ride with the boyz, now you make your opponent choose between a BW full of Burnas, or trying to take out the 2 BWs carrying the KFF filled with boyz, or the 2 BWs full of nobz. It's like threat overload.

Looks good only problems with multi burna wagons is they can't take a wagon as a transport which limits the ammount of wagon train you can have. Works best if your boys are in trucks or on foot. Put the meks with the nob to keep targets spread out, fast attack if really user's choice am a fan of the copters they're alittle more scary and they can get to a to b faster.

You only have one burna wagon the set up would be as so

Buggies/Nob Wagon/Boy Wagon/Burna Wagon/Boy Wagon/Nob Wagon/Buggies
With perhaps a Trukk or two behind to clean up/take objectives.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

Would I be better off using meganobs instead? I have those as well. I'm just lost as to where to take this list. I'm not hell bent on 5 wagons but I have them. I have 11 meganobs as well and I'm working on a 12th...so I guess I wanna see how diverse this list can be. I have kommandos lootas bikes deff koptas the whole kit and kaboodle lol I'm just lost on where to take this list to finish it up. I could go with four wagons and take ghazzy and a mek and get meganobs as a troops choice...

Meganobz are often a popular alternative to regular Nobz when you want the dedicated BWs. I usually see them taken in units of 3. I think you should stick with 5 Battlewagons it's just so much krumpyness

So what does the optimized list look like with fast attack and the most nobs I can get

Well This is my list that I am working on. I have yet to play it as I mostly play Kan wall. But I feel it gives me the right units to win the game.

Mek: KFF
Mek: KFF

Meganobs x5: 2x Kombi-Skorchas
-BW: Rolla, Riggers, Plates, BShoota, Kannon, Plank
Meganobs x5: 2x Kombi-Skorchas
-BW: Rolla, Riggers, Plates, BShoota, Kannon, Plank

Boys x19: Shootas (Mek here)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Boys x19: Shootas (Mek here)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Boys x19: Shootas
-Nob: PK, BShoota

Kopta: Saw, Rokkits
Buggies x2: Trakk, Rokkits
Buggies x2: Trakk, Rokkits

BW: Rolla, Plates, BShoota, Kannon, Plank
BW: Rolla, Plates, BShoota, Kannon, Plank
BW: Rolla, Riggers, Plates, BShoota, Kannon, Plank

1997

My boys are all sluggas will that suffice? Whats the big difference in meganobz and nobs? Wound allocation and slow n steady? I'm just trying to figure out why I have all these lootas and kommandos if I cant use them XD

Slugga boyz are usually better to have in Battlewagons. I think Balsak listed his as Shootas because he regularly plays his kanwalls with shoota boyz so has them assembled that way.

As for comparing meganobz to regular ones.

Pros for Meganobz
Mega Armor, so a 2+ armor save, power klaws and TL-Shootas for everyone. They also come with Stikkbombz. You can give them kombi weapons at 5 pts a pop.

Cons for Meganobz
slow and purposeful. can't customize much. no bosspoles, waaagh! banners, and limited selection of weapon upgrades/choices. can't take bikes, or a painboy.

And nobody said you can't use Lootas or Meganobz, it just means you'll have to find the points for them.

Shootas are normally in battlewagons, Sorry Reckoner but I must disagree with you.

Having that much Dakka in range at once in an AV14 vehicle protected with a KFF is more than one can wish for. And, the unit inside are still better than most assault specialists in combat despite not having an extra attack!

I also tend to do shooty Orks more then CC Orks. I try not to get my Boys out of the BW's.

For the most part Sluggas would probably be better. But I just like to shoot with Orks. Its funny seeing people face when they die to Ork shooting.

I personally like Meganobs more as they are just so fun to play. Besides after you equip all your nobs they end up being just as much if not more then the Megnobs IMHO. But its reallly personal choice there.

Do you want Painboy? Do you want the Banner? Do you want better wound allocations? Do you want 2+ save models? All these are question that you should ask yourself to figure out which is better for you.

I honestly think Both squads are fun to use and just as good as the other. Its more what you feel you need to win.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I also tend to do shooty Orks more then CC Orks. I try not to get my Boys out of the BW's.

For the most part Sluggas would probably be better. But I just like to shoot with Orks. Its funny seeing people face when they die to Ork shooting.

I personally like Meganobs more as they are just so fun to play. Besides after you equip all your nobs they end up being just as much if not more then the Megnobs IMHO. But its reallly personal choice there.

Do you want Painboy? Do you want the Banner? Do you want better wound allocations? Do you want 2+ save models? All these are question that you should ask yourself to figure out which is better for you.

I honestly think Both squads are fun to use and just as good as the other. Its more what you feel you need to win.

IMHO I LOVE the megnobs lol I painted my BW yellow just for them XD I wanted to get kaptin badrukk and some flash gits! But I just keep reading nobs do it better than meganobs =/ I need a painboy and a WAAGH banner for both squads vs having 11 meganobs >.> I was going to take ghazzy meganobs and a snikrot unit but I don't know how viable that it. My main concern now is buggies but seeing how expensive they are really limits my love of them =[

What do you mean expensive buggies? They are 40 points each the way I have them. Thats pretty cheap for what they do.

Well the whole Nob/ Meganob debate is really ultimatly your choice. You might want to try both out and see what you like better in the game. I feel both have there place and both are worth there points.

Ghazzy coming in with Snikrot is fun to do. But I am not really a big fan of it. You are holding up a 250 some point character in reserve. You don't know when he will come in and you don't want to waste that IMHO.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:What do you mean expensive buggies? They are 40 points each the way I have them. Thats pretty cheap for what they do.

Well the whole Nob/ Meganob debate is really ultimatly your choice. You might want to try both out and see what you like better in the game. I feel both have there place and both are worth there points.

Ghazzy coming in with Snikrot is fun to do. But I am not really a big fan of it. You are holding up a 250 some point character in reserve. You don't know when he will come in and you don't want to waste that IMHO.

lol I meant $$ wise they're expensive! 25 dollars a buggie! I've read to convert them from the AOBR koptas but I'm trying to figure that whole mess out and then I have to get 2 painboys and 2 banner carriers before my nob squads would be right so it's looking like I'm going meganobs for the time being...I mean I made a BW to carry them! Would you deck them out with all skorchas? Or what's their best load out? I'm going to have to rethink the list for them =/ Is ghazzy worth taking for them?

How is it possible to take more then 3 battle wagons, i mean according to the force organization chart you can only take 3. I would just like to know how?

nitrodaddy1324 wrote:How is it possible to take more then 3 battle wagons, i mean according to the force organization chart you can only take 3. I would just like to know how?

Dedicated transports. Nobs and meganobs get them as part of...I guess the best way to say it is their wargear.

And how afective is this????

nitrodaddy1324 wrote:And how afective is this????

From everything I've read competitive players go kan wall or bw bash =D

Without repeating myself, this is a Battlewagon Rush army which you want. The post is detailed and explains everything and should help you. Also tells you how to build Battlewagons correctly

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2012/05/army-lists-orks-battlewagon-rush-2000.html

Good link Mercer. I don't really agree on the Boarding Plank and Grots personally but it hits all the key points. The 9 Loota units is interesting and something I'm going to try.

On the debate between Shootas and Sluggas in BWs, I used to support Shootas but through experience I find prefer Chopppas against most armies. You aren't going to be firing from the BW in a BW rush because you're moving as fast as possible. I can see the benefit if you're up against Purifiers or something and you want to avoid CC, but other than that I like that the Choppa unit has more insurance in assaults if they get charged and obviously more CC output.

The probelm is you can get out and shoot, then assault.

But I feel if you are taking shootas then you are probably not going to want to getout of the BW. It seems they woulod do better just staying in there and shooting whatever they can.

When you have sluggas thats there jobs, get out and assault. Its really a matter of preference.

As far as the plank goes. They are priceless to me. It is nice when you ram a tank witht he rolla and assault a Dread in the same turn from a plank. For 5 Points how can you not take it?

bc you can ram the dread too w/ D6 str 10 hits

Ok, but why not kill 2 targets with one shot? Am I wrong?

Well they have to be that close together. It's 5 points per BW that you may never use. Again, a preference thing.

I get that for sure, but what else can you use that 5 points on?

From what I hear there are alot of vehicles in the tourny scene now. It would be very hard to hide them all.

But yes it is a personal preference. I just say give them a chance.

I might just do that. Mind you I play with Choppa Boyz in my wagon so I tend to get them out of the wagons and into cc quickly.

Ah. See I try to stay in the BW's so it is a no brainer for me. But I can understandf your line of thinking for sure. If you keep the Mek in the BW you could give him a PK. I know its not the smartest thing to do but this way you will always have a PK in the BW. Just trying to think out of the box. I am not a fan of box's. There dark.

I'm definitely more a fan of CC I could have picked those sissy tau if I liked shootin =P Im leaning towards meganobz but I don't really understand their slow and steady rule and how to equip them and if I want ghazzy with them or not :(

Well its Slow & Purposeful. It means when the move they ahave to roll 2d6 and they get the highest die for there movement.

I don't think Ghaz is really neccesary. You can take just a normal Boss with them. Or none at all really.

Equiping them is pretty simple. You can give them a kombi weapon. Either Skorcha or Rokkit. If you were to do either of those I would do the skorcha. You don't have to roll to hit as its a template weapon. You can get more hits with it as well.

Tau can't hold up to Ork shooting.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well its Slow & Purposeful. It means when the move they ahave to roll 2d6 and they get the highest die for there movement.

I don't think Ghaz is really neccesary. You can take just a normal Boss with them. Or none at all really.

Equiping them is pretty simple. You can give them a kombi weapon. Either Skorcha or Rokkit. If you were to do either of those I would do the skorcha. You don't have to roll to hit as its a template weapon. You can get more hits with it as well.

Tau can't hold up to Ork shooting.

haha! Well tomorrow night is going to be my first night playing orks so I need to get my list ready now D= I don't have any buggies yet though I may have to take lootas or kommandos instead and I have 9 koptas...kinda nervous =[ I don't have deff rollas yet either =[

Take lootas. They should do a better job for you then Kommandos will ever do. IMHO.

Koptas could be nice as well. Acoupld of suicide koptas and a squad of five with Rokkits can be nice. If you have the points that is.

Anyways Good luck!

Going to get my new version of this list up tonight. Meks in a boys wagon so is it 18 boys 1 non 1 mek?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also on the nob/megAnob wagons what kind of weapon isn't allowed? Can I still use Kyla non idea? It says no..if so what should I do?

I believe the Killkannon is disallowed on a Nob wagon, so you don't have much to worry about.

And as Balsak said, Lootas are great. Orks don't have anything as good for ranged, and they are arguably the best elite choice in the codex as well.

New list time! Pick em apart boys =D
HQ
2 big meks KFF -170

Troops
18boys 1 nob PK BP -148
18boys 1 nob PK BP - 148
19 boys 1nobs PK BP - 154

Heavy
BW grotrig Kannon Deffrolla 125
BW kannon defolla 120
Bw kannon Deffrolla 120

Elita
15 lootas 225
5 meganobs 3 kombi weapons 215
6 meganobs 3 kombi weapons 255
BW grotrig deffrolla - 120
BW grotrig deffolla - 120

Fast attack
1 kopta buzzsaw TL rokkit - 70

It's 2k on the dot has a bit of everyting let me know what you guys think =D
meks go in with the boys made room adjusted points have a suicide kopta lootas for transport popping I think wolves may give my lootas a hard time but I like this list alot and need to work on my skorcha count but I think I have enough to cover it XD

Drop the 6th meganob and take plates on your wagons. You really want them to keep moving.

You also want a gun on the Megnobs Wagons. Even just a Bshoota is good enough.

The reason is to stop from getting immobilized due to weapon destroyed.

Your Meganobs BW's are over priced. The should only be 115 pts. Unless they have a big shoota on them that you forgot to write down. Your boys squads are underpriced as well. They should be 154,154 and 160 pts. You have 18 boys in there and 1 nob right? Making 19 models.

hope this helps.

HQ
2 Big Meks - 170

18 Boys 1 nob PK BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK BP -154
19 boys 1 nob PK BP -160

BW grot kannon rolla -125
BW kannon rolla -120
BW kannon rolla -120

5 Meganobs 3 skorcha -215
5 meganobs 3 skorcha -215

15 lootas -225

BW grot rolla Bshoota -120
BW grot rolla bshoota -120

Kopta Buzzsaw Tl rokkits -70

I have thirty two points left over. And not enough for plates on all the wagons...would you just do it on the nobs wagons?

Well I would say you want the Meks BW's to be able to keep moving providing that cover save. So those first IMHO.

Ok, so switch the Kannons to BShootas. You are going for close combat, so you are going to be moving full speed. Won't be able to shooot kannons anyways. You just want the shootas to give you that wound from immobilized.

That should give you enough points to give both Nobs BW's and Both Mek's BW's Plates. That should be the first targets for most people anyways. You shouldn't really need them on the last BW. Again IMHO.

Leaves you 7 points if my Math is correct. Could upgrade one BW to have a kannon just in case type thing. Or try a plank on one BW.

Cheers!

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well I would say you want the Meks BW's to be able to keep moving providing that cover save. So those first IMHO.

Ok, so switch the Kannons to BShootas. You are going for close combat, so you are going to be moving full speed. Won't be able to shooot kannons anyways. You just want the shootas to give you that wound from immobilized.

That should give you enough points to give both Nobs BW's and Both Mek's BW's Plates. That should be the first targets for most people anyways. You shouldn't really need them on the last BW. Again IMHO.

Leaves you 7 points if my Math is correct. Could upgrade one BW to have a kannon just in case type thing. Or try a plank on one BW.

Cheers!

I dropped it on another combi weapon =D so I came to 1998 =) I'm ready to go!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Final rendition
HQ
2 big meks KFF -170

Troops
18 boys 1 nob PK BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK BP -154
19 boys 1 nob PK BP -160

BW grot Bshoota rolla -120
BW bshoota rolla Plates -125
BW bshoota rolla plates -125

5 meganobs 3 kombi -215
5 meganobs 4 kombi -220

15 lootas -225

BW grot plates rolla bshoota -130
BW grot plates rolla bshoota -130

Comes to 1998 total =D

Ghaz is an absolute requirement for any Wagon list at 2k. Getting a guaranteed turn 2 assault is more than worth his points. EDIT: Plus, you can send him at a unit that neither the Boyz nor Nobs can handle, ie Paladins/Purifiers.

Mega Nobs also won't last as long as normal Nobs due to a lack of invuls, FNP and wound allocation shenanigans.

Also never take more than 4 Wagons. When you above 4, you start to put too many points into the Wagons, which takes away points from the absolutely vital support for the Wagons. The list right above me can be absolutely kited all game since it has ZERO support, it even has TWO KFFs! TWO! That's not necessary AT ALL!

I also have come to truly appreciate the power of Burnas. Having the option of dropping 15 Flamers from a transport on units that die through weight of die or remembering that they're still Boyz, so they're swinging with a max of 45 power weapon attacks on the charge really helps against units with FNP/have good armor is also worth the points.

AresX8 wrote:Ghaz is an absolute requirement for any Wagon list at 2k. Getting a guaranteed turn 2 assault is more than worth his points. EDIT: Plus, you can send him at a unit that neither the Boyz nor Nobs can handle, ie Paladins/Purifiers.

Mega Nobs also won't last as long as normal Nobs due to a lack of invuls, FNP and wound allocation shenanigans.

Also never take more than 4 Wagons. When you above 4, you start to put too many points into the Wagons, which takes away points from the absolutely vital support for the Wagons. The list right above me can be absolutely kited all game since it has ZERO support, it even has TWO KFFs! TWO! That's not necessary AT ALL!

I also have come to truly appreciate the power of Burnas. Having the option of dropping 15 Flamers from a transport on units that die through weight of die or remembering that they're still Boyz, so they're swinging with a max of 45 power weapon attacks on the charge really helps against units with FNP/have good armor is also worth the points.

Oh I know that the nobs are better but for tomorrow night I don't have my rollas or my nobs with banner or pain boy so I'm going with what I can get XD do you have a list you like to run at 2k so I have an idea?

Nobz are better than mega nobz. (FnP, Cybork,)
Kannons have a rookit and a blast, the blast is St 4 so it counts as defensive, can shoot after moving, might not matter if your going full speed all the time but I always throw a kannon on my wagon. You never know when you'll only go 7inches (6 in your case) and be able to ram, than plank, than blast, enemies.
Koptas are either really great or dead quick.
I've never read bad stuff about buggies but I don't use them. (Same reason as you originally I imagine.)
With BS 2 a blast template is more accurate than a shot. (Hence kannons over Shootas, though I love shootas.)

I always use red paint if I am assaulting out of the vehicle. How many times have you been 1 or 2 inches short of a charge? 5 points will gix that.

I always use a bunch of rokkit buggies - screen the side of the wagons and get some rokkit shots off. They are awesome.

Nobs > Manz.

AresX8 wrote:Ghaz is an absolute requirement for any Wagon list at 2k. Getting a guaranteed turn 2 assault is more than worth his points. EDIT: Plus, you can send him at a unit that neither the Boyz nor Nobs can handle, ie Paladins/Purifiers.

Mega Nobs also won't last as long as normal Nobs due to a lack of invuls, FNP and wound allocation shenanigans.

Also never take more than 4 Wagons. When you above 4, you start to put too many points into the Wagons, which takes away points from the absolutely vital support for the Wagons. The list right above me can be absolutely kited all game since it has ZERO support, it even has TWO KFFs! TWO! That's not necessary AT ALL!

I also have come to truly appreciate the power of Burnas. Having the option of dropping 15 Flamers from a transport on units that die through weight of die or remembering that they're still Boyz, so they're swinging with a max of 45 power weapon attacks on the charge really helps against units with FNP/have good armor is also worth the points.

I get where you're coming from here, but I disagree on a few points. The Lootas can help prevent kiting, the two KFFs provide extra movement options, but what the real problem is with the list now is a lack of Str 8+ ranged. There needs to be Rokkit Buggies or Deffkoptas to ensure your are not being kited.

Meganobz are still very powerful. Yes they lack the FNP, but the 2+ armor save is not easy to crack. And they have another wound after that, and they all have power klaws...which is krumpy. Perhaps they wouldn't last as long against some types (Nobz never last long against GK), but they're worth trying out.

And yes, Burnas are quite good in a battlewagon. Most of my games are 1000-1500 pts and I always try to run triple BW with one maxed out squad of Burnas. It actually can work quite well too because the middle wagon with the Burnas also carries the Big Mek, and it's AV12 sides are screened by the other 2 wagons. Some players freak out about the Burna wagon and throw all their AT against the front 14, which when you have a 4+ cover save is very tough to crack.

Ghaz isn't need in a Battlewagon list as you have the Battlwagons and RPJ to provide a very good assault range.

A single KFF you probably can get away with, I had four Battlewagons in my army and never wished for a second KFF. Plus the Warboss helps get a extra Battlewagon by taking Nobz as troops with a dedicated Battlewagon, which frees up elite slots for things like Burnas and Lootas, Lootas btw are really needed in pretty much every Ork list.

Meganobz aren't as good as Nobz and the 2+ armour save is handy, but as soon as someone brings out lascannons and plasma they are dust. They are a cheaper option though as for 40 points they get a power klaw and 2+ armour save, that's 5 points cheaper than a Nob with power klaw and still hasn't got the 2+ armour save .

Yeah that is sort of why I like the idea of having 3 BWs carrying 20 Boyz each, then have 1-2 extra with like 3 Manz more for the ability to use deffrollas and screen other stuff than for the Nobz to have big staying power. 3 Manz can still pull off a pretty decent assault though.

The only reason the list has meganobz over nobs ATM is model count. I'm lacking 2 banners ad 2 painboys (really 1 painboy because I do have mad dok but...ya know) but l do have wysiwyg with this list ATM I will be making rokkit buggies within the next two weeks so I'll have those as well
Most of my opponents just for tonight will be running mek so think the extra force field will be a huge blessing along with being able to repair tanks. It's only my second time playing ever so if anyone wants to keep watch I'll be constantly updating with new ideas.
Does anyone know where ghazzy works best? I bought to go with the MANz but the kff just seems to fit better :(

Ghazkull works best in a Green Tide style list, where you just footslog tons of boyz. The guaranteed 6'' Waaagh! gives your boyz an 18'' assault range.

Reckoner wrote:Ghazkull works best in a Green Tide style list, where you just footslog tons of boyz. The guaranteed 6'' Waaagh! gives your boyz an 18'' assault range.

Does his ability to make a MANz or nobs unit make it worth taking him in this style list? Is 5 wagons to much? I'm open to any adjustments lol

Well a regualr Boss can do that too. So Ghazz for that ability isn't worth it. Ghaz is a good character and his abilities are awesome. I just think he is better suited in the Tide which has allready been said.

I feel that Manz are better then Nobs. You just have to choose you target better with the Manz. I wouldn't try to fight a squad of Terminators with my Manz, but a Tac squad sure. I would rather use the Regualr Nobs for the terminators as they will have a save and have better diversity to deal with them. I tend to go towards the Manz more then the Nobs. The nobs squad can get pretty expensive.

As far as 5 BW's I don't think it is all that bad. Amror 14 is going to be hard to deal with at range for most armies out there, Especially armor 14 that gets saves all the time. Support would be an asset for sure. But its hard to choose what to take out to get that support. I am sure you will do good enough tonight to see what it lacks or has to much of. Go from there. Its really hard for us to know how you play, how the other player plays as well. Its all trail and error at this point.

Cheers and good luck!

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well a regualr Boss can do that too. So Ghazz for that ability isn't worth it. Ghaz is a good character and his abilities are awesome. I just think he is better suited in the Tide which has allready been said.

I feel that Manz are better then Nobs. You just have to choose you target better with the Manz. I wouldn't try to fight a squad of Terminators with my Manz, but a Tac squad sure. I would rather use the Regualr Nobs for the terminators as they will have a save and have better diversity to deal with them. I tend to go towards the Manz more then the Nobs. The nobs squad can get pretty expensive.

As far as 5 BW's I don't think it is all that bad. Amror 14 is going to be hard to deal with at range for most armies out there, Especially armor 14 that gets saves all the time. Support would be an asset for sure. But its hard to choose what to take out to get that support. I am sure you will do good enough tonight to see what it lacks or has to much of. Go from there. Its really hard for us to know how you play, how the other player plays as well. Its all trail and error at this point.

Cheers and good luck!

It'll be my second game ever =D I'm going to take a page from the IG on this one. (Maybe a little out of context) but I'm going to kill to the last man =D cause we's made for fightin and winnin! I love my MANz lol but I'll get some nobs prep'd for next time and I'll have deff rollas XD

I do believe you have a pretty strong list. Now as long as you are not a complete idiot. No offense intended. You should do pretty well IMHO.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I do believe you have a pretty strong list. Now as long as you are not a complete idiot. No offense intended. You should do pretty well IMHO.

lol well it'll probably be against space wolves...and the only game I've played was a 1k point GK vs SW and it...well it didn't go well =/ what should I do with my kopta if he has that bird thing...

Well wolves don't have the stormraven so you don't have to worry about that.

The koptas should scout to try to get a good target like a vehicle. Myabe even tie up a Long fang squad. With its T5 it should stick around for a turn or two. Maybe even killing a couple along the way. If you get first turn thats gtreat, if not just turbo behind terrain if you can. The kopta will die, just hope it does some kind of damage.

Is there a better place to stick the koptas points then? I could give all the MANz a kombi weapon? or the meks a klaw or something...

Send Nobs against Terminators? I'm sorry, but that just lost all credibility you have in my eyes. You send Nobs at the units that Boyz can't kill, and you send Boyz to the units that Nobs can't kill. Sending Nobs against Terminators almost guarantees the Nob unit dying because of the amount of S8 attacks they deal out (except LC Termies).

Mega Nobs also don't have these things that normal Nobs do:

- WS 5 due to WAAAGH! banner
- FNP from Painboy
- Wound allocation shenanigans
- Normal movement instead of having to deal with SnP
- Cybork bodies

What does a Mega Nob have over a normal Nob? 2+ armor. That's it.

No the Koptas are or at least can be a good thing. I think you are fine for tonight. Can't really do much with them beside taking buggies. You said you don't have them so I would just keep them like they are.

You don't want all your Manz to have the same thing. The 3 kombis will help a bit with wound allocation and 3 Skorchas can be nice against most things.

I was going to do 2 skorchas 1 rokkit to help...I dunno I'm just learning so this is gonna be fun =) plus I have my GK to kill anything the orks don't =D

I would do 3 Skorchas. The rokkit probably won't hit. The skorchas also don't need to roll to hit. Its win win with the skorchas.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I would do 3 Skorchas. The rokkit probably won't hit. The skorchas also don't need to roll to hit. Its win win with the skorchas.

Then skorchas it shall be! I'm taking 11 of them just in case XD I'm only running 10 but you never know. I'm about to leave the house! Hopefully tonight will go better XD


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balsak_da_mighty wrote:I would do 3 Skorchas. The rokkit probably won't hit. The skorchas also don't need to roll to hit. Its win win with the skorchas.

I won =) he ate my 2nd meganob squad with JOWWF just...dead...so it was a good game it really could have gone either way. I now see why deff rollas are mandatory...and I see why koptas are a no no lol

Yeah, Orks have no kind of Psychic defense at all.

Koptas seem to be hit or miss really. i myself have not had them work, but I do see the potential of them.

Glad to hear you pulled out the win. Its good to see Orks win. Especially when there was fun involved.

Now that you have seen what the list can do. What are some changes that you might want done to the list. I always ask this to people learning how to build lists and play new armies. Its a good exercise. I think anyways.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Yeah, Orks have no kind of Psychic defense at all.

Koptas seem to be hit or miss really. i myself have not had them work, but I do see the potential of them.

Glad to hear you pulled out the win. Its good to see Orks win. Especially when there was fun involved.

Now that you have seen what the list can do. What are some changes that you might want done to the list. I always ask this to people learning how to build lists and play new armies. Its a good exercise. I think anyways.

Let's see. I love the boys lol I love watching them pile out and get stuck in. I will be changing out meganobs for normal nobs I won't be taking deff koptas or lootas in that type of list again as someone said in the past they just get left behind so I may look into more bikes or stormboys? more than likely the rokkit buggies I'm not sure. I loved my deff rollas and the big meks worked FLAWLESSLY. Do big meks give a 5+ in assault as well as shooting? Hmm the megnobs really didn't pull their weight so I could see switching them so all in all I'll probably rework this whole list lol. I'll have 350 points to play with and I'm not sure where to put them =[ I learned start as far up as you can and lootas just don't fit in this list especially with other armies that have fire support like them (frag rockets or whatever those wolves are using just eats them) I dunno I need fast attack quick and hard. Does ghazzy give a second WAAGH? hmm trying to think of anything else. I need to get this list WYSIWYG for sure...After that it's mainly lose the meganobs gain the normal nobs lose the kopta and the lootas for something faster that can stay with the main line and maybe put some gretchin in to hold my back objectives...yeah definitely gretchin lol I like to fight to much to worry about those XD

Thats a shame about the Meganobs. I love them. I would not trade them for anything. I do like the rokkit buggies better. Lootas aare nice but they do not have the supprt they need in a BW rush for sure.

Ghaz does not give a second Waagh!, his just has special rules to the Waagh!

I would not even worry about the grots. Pointless waste of points.

Playing Space Wolves when running orks is always bittersweet because of JOTWW
It is so easily an ork heavy point killer that it can be really disheartening, and yet the orks still win, because the boyz just run over the wolves.

I run bikes with a nob Klaw or Nobz on bikes which is unneccesary in a BW list. So Bikes with a klawed Nob or Buggies would work for you.

Your playstyle, based off of your posts and wordings...I imagine you might enjoy the bikes more, but they are also less loved and you technically (I've been often told) get less for your buck.

They never fail me though, even...when they are just used to soak up fire...poor guys. You might try both and see which you like.
Though 2 squads of six with PK is exactly 350, I believe, wait, no, 370, sorry. You'd probably also want BP's. So, 380...
I guess buggies are better for your buck...

Runna wrote:Playing Space Wolves when running orks is always bittersweet because of JOTWW
It is so easily an ork heavy point killer that it can be really disheartening, and yet the orks still win, because the boyz just run over the wolves.

I run bikes with a nob Klaw or Nobz on bikes which is unneccesary in a BW list. So Bikes with a klawed Nob or Buggies would work for you.

Your playstyle, based off of your posts and wordings...I imagine you might enjoy the bikes more, but they are also less loved and you technically (I've been often told) get less for your buck.

They never fail me though, even...when they are just used to soak up fire...poor guys. You might try both and see which you like.
Though 2 squads of six with PK is exactly 350, I believe, wait, no, 370, sorry. You'd probably also want BP's. So, 380...
I guess buggies are better for your buck...

Well I ran into the problem of not having scoring troops the boys were all in the fight. I was in the fight on turn three I think...which I guess is late. I'm going to trade my grot riggers for red paint job I just need a faster heavier hitting group I may take some gretchin but I don't really know how to make the list better lol I have like...600 points freed up like 650 or so.


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balsak_da_mighty wrote:Thats a shame about the Meganobs. I love them. I would not trade them for anything. I do like the rokkit buggies better. Lootas aare nice but they do not have the supprt they need in a BW rush for sure.

Ghaz does not give a second Waagh!, his just has special rules to the Waagh!

I would not even worry about the grots. Pointless waste of points.

I'm putting together 2 waaaagh banners and 2 painboys. Any suggestions on making the biggest WYISWYG style nob unit?


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Inigo Montoya wrote:Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

With this list I can't take the kannons so I would be able to drop the kannons for Big shootas and I would lose 18 pointson boys. Any other suggestions for the 50 or so points?

You need to drop 2 boys to put the meks in their wagons. I threw that together without fully thinking it out. Why cant you take the kannons - the frag is defensive. If you aren't taking kannons, put the points into armor plates on a couple of wagons and the 9th rokkit buggy.

Inigo Montoya wrote:You need to drop 2 boys to put the meks in their wagons. I threw that together without fully thinking it out. Why cant you take the kannons - the frag is defensive. If you aren't taking kannons, put the points into armor plates on a couple of wagons and the 9th rokkit buggy.

I didn't think nobs were allowed to take kannons? I've got my 2 - 6 nob squads ready to go now. I'm going to do RPJ on them instead of grot riggers.
Would you guys suggest dropping the second KFF for a warboss? I had the 4+ save more than their fair share on my wagons last night but I dunno what I would get more out of...also, 2 things about bikes. If I run bikes what's the sweet spot for them? I know lootas are like 5-9-15 and burnas are normally in 10's just trying to figure out what more I need to buy.

I run a Speed Freaks Ork list at 1500 points, and the most recurring thing that I find is that Nobz are overkill. The only thing they'll be needed for is dealing with Termies. Otherwise they're kind of a waste of points. Don't get me wrong, I love my Nobz/painboy, but they're not worth it. Get another BW, or more Deffkoptas, or a Looted Wagon or 2.

dakkaguy wrote:I run a Speed Freaks Ork list at 1500 points, and the most recurring thing that I find is that Nobz are overkill. The only thing they'll be needed for is dealing with Termies. Otherwise they're kind of a waste of points. Don't get me wrong, I love my Nobz/painboy, but they're not worth it. Get another BW, or more Deffkoptas, or a Looted Wagon or 2.

My area runs a ton of termies or high armor transports. I'm going to be playing a guy soon who has 3 vindicators in his list. I'm not even sure yet what to do about them yet lol. I've got about 300 points give or take to upgrade certain things so I'm trying to place them well XD

9 rokkit warbuggies make vindicators sad. You will be getting side armor, and by the time they can hurt your army they should be dead.

You can use a kannon just not the killkannon. I would still do what I had to do to get the 9th buggy. That is 9 fast twin linked s8 shots that must be dealt with IN ADDITION TO 5 deff rolla wagons. Yummy.

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

This List is very mean. I think the Wagonsneed plates on them, but other then that. 5-6 nobs is really about the sweet spot. to mjuch more then that they are a points sink as they are to over powered.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Here's my question. I wanted to run 6 nobs would I have to lose more buggies?

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

This List is very mean. I think the Wagonsneed plates on them, but other then that. 5-6 nobs is really about the sweet spot. to mjuch more then that they are a points sink as they are to over powered.

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IPhone wrote my comment In the list :(

Where? I don't see anything you wrote.

Besides the "IPhone wrote my comment In the list :("

Freaking iPhone...anyway I have 2 squads of 6 nobs painboy, pk, pk/bp, pk banner, normal, big choppa I have that at 280 points per squad. I'm left with 127 points after the BW have kannon,RPJ,rolla,plates at 135 a piece the boys squads so I'm left wondering about my buggies or what I can do to help this list. I'm thinking two greg in squads or...I dunno lol at a loss


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Greg should have been gretchin squads....

You do noty need kannons on Battlewagons. They are contradictory to the Battlewagons role. Battlewagons want to zoom forward and drop off Boyz so they can beat face. Take a kannon and you're moving 6" in order to fire.

Gretchin unit is fine, though you only need one.

The blast is defensive, so you can zoom and shoot it. It is an order of magnitude better than a big shoota for 5 measly points.

Since when do Orks need a frag blast? They are anti infantry and Orks do not need anti infantry, they are anti infantry!

And no, you cannot zoom and shoot it as Battlewagons are not fast vehicles, so you can still only move 6" and fire the kannon, which is handicapping the Battlewagon. Battlewagons are only open topped, they are not fast vehicles.

Well I personally do a shooty Ork army, SO yes the Kannon is useful. I put a kannnon and a bshoota on my BW's. Both guns being able to fire if I need them to.

I don't see a probelm with spending an extra 5 points on a kannon. If you want. its not that expensive.

The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

mercer wrote:The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

I've tried wagons with and without kannons. For 5 points more you get some more versatility and you can shoot at some armor if need be. It's never been a determining factor in any game I have played, and if you're using your wagons in a way that maximizes their mobility then just take the Big Shoota.

I have to ask, why do you think Ghazkull is a good addition to your BW list? For the load of points Ghazkull costs, his largest benefit is the upgraded Waaagh! which is a guaranteed 6'' fleet. That gives your forces (on the second turn or later) a 25'' assault range provided you have Red Paint on the wagons (13'' in the BW, 6'' run, 6'' assault). Without Ghazkull, this range will be somewhere between 20-25'' when you call your Waaagh! This is also not including the distance you disembark your boyz from your vehicle from. So with Ghaz you're guaranteed the maximum assault range, without it you're probably averaging about 2 feet. For me, I think 2 feet is plenty considering I moved 13'' in the first turn with the wagons before I could call my Waaagh! So you're looking at about 3 feet range from deployment to assault on turn 2 with Waaagh! Unless there is some weird deployment, you should be able to make that assault on turn 2. So that is why I do not think Ghazkull is necessary.

Reckoner wrote:

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

I've tried wagons with and without kannons. For 5 points more you get some more versatility and you can shoot at some armor if need be. It's never been a determining factor in any game I have played, and if you're using your wagons in a way that maximizes their mobility then just take the Big Shoota.

I have to ask, why do you think Ghazkull is a good addition to your BW list? For the load of points Ghazkull costs, his largest benefit is the upgraded Waaagh! which is a guaranteed 6'' fleet. That gives your forces (on the second turn or later) a 25'' assault range provided you have Red Paint on the wagons (13'' in the BW, 6'' run, 6'' assault). Without Ghazkull, this range will be somewhere between 20-25'' when you call your Waaagh! This is also not including the distance you disembark your boyz from your vehicle from. So with Ghaz you're guaranteed the maximum assault range, without it you're probably averaging about 2 feet. For me, I think 2 feet is plenty considering I moved 13'' in the first turn with the wagons before I could call my Waaagh! So you're looking at about 3 feet range from deployment to assault on turn 2 with Waaagh! Unless there is some weird deployment, you should be able to make that assault on turn 2. So that is why I do not think Ghazkull is necessary.

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?


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SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

post deleted.

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Ghaz isn't need in a Battlewagon list as you have the Battlwagons and RPJ to provide a very good assault range.

Without Ghaz you have no answer to mass Paladins.

Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins


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Gharron wrote:

mercer wrote:The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

Ghaz is better in a foot list than Battlewagon list as a foot list is slower. You should have a turn 2 assault in considering you start 12" from the board edge, move 13" thanks to RPJ, then next turn move 13" again, bail out 2" and run and assault 4" (average dice roll) giving you a total of 48". I don't think Ghaz is needed, you have speed already.

Hmmm, a Deffkopta would certainly help you for alpha strike, you using any of them? What wargear you got on the Battlewagons?

mercer wrote:

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Ghaz isn't need in a Battlewagon list as you have the Battlwagons and RPJ to provide a very good assault range.

Without Ghaz you have no answer to mass Paladins.

Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins


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Gharron wrote:

mercer wrote:The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

Ghaz is better in a foot list than Battlewagon list as a foot list is slower. You should have a turn 2 assault in considering you start 12" from the board edge, move 13" thanks to RPJ, then next turn move 13" again, bail out 2" and run and assault 4" (average dice roll) giving you a total of 48". I don't think Ghaz is needed, you have speed already.

Hmmm, a Deffkopta would certainly help you for alpha strike, you using any of them? What wargear you got on the Battlewagons?

BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
Those are the BW's for now. Was going to look at them and see what I could do to them. I tried the kopta last time it just kinda sat there lol I dunno I also couldn't bring him in because of my opponents deployment so I had to swing him in the side and try to get rear armor it was a mess...I'm trying to lighten the load to get some buggies or make this list work in some way. Lol I'm not really sure what ghaz brings to the table a normal/meganob doesn't except more attacks and the big WAAAGH

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?

I kind of think you're going a little fast. You need to either sit down and read through the Rule Book more, not just your codex, or you should play some smaller point matches to get an idea for how the game is played. As it stands, there are some really basic rules you are unaware of and that is totally fine. But playing a 2000pt list before you know the rules very well, it won't matter how competitive looking the list is...if you don't have a solid understanding of the rules and tactics you won't have fun and you won't win.

For instance, you should definitely know that Lootas can not move and shoot because they are infantry, and their Deffguns are Heavy D3. Infantry can not move and fire Heavy weapons unless they have the Relentless rule. Vehicles can more and fire Heavy weapons because they are vehicles. You should be able to know off the top of your head the rules for Rapid Fire, Assault, Pistol weapons etc.

A KFF provides a Cover Save. It extends in a 6'' radius from the Big Mek or 6'' from the hull of any vehicle he is in. It provides a 5+ cover save for infantry, 4+ cover save for vehicles (the vehicle counts as being obscured). You should definitely know the difference between your saves. Cover Saves can only provide the save against shooting, you can't really take cover when someone is hacking your face with a close combat weapon. You should know off the top of your head how cover, armor, and invulnerable saves work.

And if someone has a unit that can outflank, if it allows them to choose any table edge like Snikrot does, then your Lootas are not safe near any table edge. That shouldn't really be a concern of yours though, because Lootas will run from some ranged fire sooner than someone successfully rolls for reserves and kills them. That's why you try to get them in cover or out of range of your enemies weapons and start targeting light armor first. If your opponent deepstrikes or outflanks the Lootas, well that's too bad but they just used that whole unit to take care of some Lootas. That's why I like splitting mine into units of 5, because if I lose one that way it's no big deal. These are things you learn by playing, not by talking about it. If you want my opinion, you need to step back and start thinking of some smaller lists and games that you can familiarize yourself with. Starting at the top with 40k will probably make you frustrated. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just went through the exact same thing when I started.

Reckoner wrote:

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?

I kind of think you're going a little fast. You need to either sit down and read through the Rule Book more, not just your codex, or you should play some smaller point matches to get an idea for how the game is played. As it stands, there are some really basic rules you are unaware of and that is totally fine. But playing a 2000pt list before you know the rules very well, it won't matter how competitive looking the list is...if you don't have a solid understanding of the rules and tactics you won't have fun and you won't win.

For instance, you should definitely know that Lootas can not move and shoot because they are infantry, and their Deffguns are Heavy D3. Infantry can not move and fire Heavy weapons unless they have the Relentless rule. Vehicles can more and fire Heavy weapons because they are vehicles. You should be able to know off the top of your head the rules for Rapid Fire, Assault, Pistol weapons etc.

A KFF provides a Cover Save. It extends in a 6'' radius from the Big Mek or 6'' from the hull of any vehicle he is in. It provides a 5+ cover save for infantry, 4+ cover save for vehicles (the vehicle counts as being obscured). You should definitely know the difference between your saves. Cover Saves can only provide the save against shooting, you can't really take cover when someone is hacking your face with a close combat weapon. You should know off the top of your head how cover, armor, and invulnerable saves work.

And if someone has a unit that can outflank, if it allows them to choose any table edge like Snikrot does, then your Lootas are not safe near any table edge. That shouldn't really be a concern of yours though, because Lootas will run from some ranged fire sooner than someone successfully rolls for reserves and kills them. That's why you try to get them in cover or out of range of your enemies weapons and start targeting light armor first. If your opponent deepstrikes or outflanks the Lootas, well that's too bad but they just used that whole unit to take care of some Lootas. That's why I like splitting mine into units of 5, because if I lose one that way it's no big deal. These are things you learn by playing, not by talking about it. If you want my opinion, you need to step back and start thinking of some smaller lists and games that you can familiarize yourself with. Starting at the top with 40k will probably make you frustrated. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just went through the exact same thing when I started.

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

post deleted

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

It's alright dude, I admire your interest in the game and it's great. Given your situation I understand that going through a more general introduction to the game is difficult.

My point is, this part of the forum is not for asking questions about rules that can be quickly and easily referenced in a rule book. We build and discuss army lists and tactics. Learning the rules comes through gradual introduction to the game and studying.

I have to ask, you mentioned you read your codex three times but do you have a rule book? That's really what you need to be studying. A rule book will help you understand the game, including other armies. As you have probably noticed, there are many rules in the ork codex that require the 40k rule book to be understood. I know that when I started out warhammer I thought I would just need my codex and I'd be fine learning on the go. This was certainly not the case for me, and I still frequently reference my rule book when I'm drawing up lists and while I'm playing. When an opponent asks you for clarification on a rule, are you going to come ask Dakka every time you don't know? Of course not.

A very handy condensed rule book (has all the rules, just not the fluff writing) comes with every set of Assault on Black Reach. You could probably find one of these for sale cheap on ebay or on the Dakka swap shop if you need one. If you do have a rule book, that's where you should be looking for answers for basic queries.

Until then, I still think you should try to get into lower point games first even if your closest store is an hour away. Heck, I used to play my armies against each other, it's a good way to learn!






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Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins

Erm lol? Ok, how do YOUR BW list deal with Paladins? Elaborate?

Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

Reckoner wrote:

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

It's alright dude, I admire your interest in the game and it's great. Given your situation I understand that going through a more general introduction to the game is difficult.

My point is, this part of the forum is not for asking questions about rules that can be quickly and easily referenced in a rule book. We build and discuss army lists and tactics. Learning the rules comes through gradual introduction to the game and studying.

I have to ask, you mentioned you read your codex three times but do you have a rule book? That's really what you need to be studying. A rule book will help you understand the game, including other armies. As you have probably noticed, there are many rules in the ork codex that require the 40k rule book to be understood. I know that when I started out warhammer I thought I would just need my codex and I'd be fine learning on the go. This was certainly not the case for me, and I still frequently reference my rule book when I'm drawing up lists and while I'm playing. When an opponent asks you for clarification on a rule, are you going to come ask Dakka every time you don't know? Of course not.

A very handy condensed rule book (has all the rules, just not the fluff writing) comes with every set of Assault on Black Reach. You could probably find one of these for sale cheap on ebay or on the Dakka swap shop if you need one. If you do have a rule book, that's where you should be looking for answers for basic queries.

Until then, I still think you should try to get into lower point games first even if your closest store is an hour away. Heck, I used to play my armies against each other, it's a good way to learn!






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Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins

Erm lol? Ok, how do YOUR BW list deal with Paladins? Elaborate?

Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

Oh I understand lol it was just a side note question =/ I put up a new list and no one seemed to notice it...

SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

Well assuming your Nobz are costed correctly, it's an interesting list...but a one-trick pony. 5 Wagons is bold, however no support from Lootas or Rokkit Buggies could really play into your opponent's hands. It's the sort of list that would be really successful against a standard gun-line army. But against something more complex, you would probably have to break the BW formation and having only 1 KFF will make it tricky.

Personally, I sort of like it. You leave nothing behind and the whole list is just one big charge. Give it a shot to determine its strengths and weaknesses. If you have points left over, Grot Riggers can be a good addition to your BWs (in every wagon except the one the Mek rides in, since Mek's tools does the same thing).

Edit: I just noticed this, your Big Mek with KFF definitely does not cost 170 pts. He should be 85 pts. Your wagons are also costed wrong, they should be 130 pts each. So I really don't know what your Nobz cost....you need to work out the math and come back with a revised list bro.

I believe that is 2 Big Meks with KFF

Reckoner wrote:

SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

Well assuming your Nobz are costed correctly, it's an interesting list...but a one-trick pony. 5 Wagons is bold, however no support from Lootas or Rokkit Buggies could really play into your opponent's hands. It's the sort of list that would be really successful against a standard gun-line army. But against something more complex, you would probably have to break the BW formation and having only 1 KFF will make it tricky.

Personally, I sort of like it. You leave nothing behind and the whole list is just one big charge. Give it a shot to determine its strengths and weaknesses. If you have points left over, Grot Riggers can be a good addition to your BWs (in every wagon except the one the Mek rides in, since Mek's tools does the same thing).

Edit: I just noticed this, your Big Mek with KFF definitely does not cost 170 pts. He should be 85 pts. Your wagons are also costed wrong, they should be 130 pts each. So I really don't know what your Nobz cost....you need to work out the math and come back with a revised list bro.

yeah lol it's the price of 2 big meks XD and that was the idea of having one big charge XD I was going to put in two squads of gretchin to hold the back line
Also the wagons should be correct on points unless I didn't add something when I typed it...I did I have them as kannons on my list I wrote! Sorry about that! I'm still kind of...on the fence to say the least with kannons. Especially with a charge at all costs list like this...

I personally don't bother with grots anymore in KPs they are just a liability, In capture and control/Seize ground the enemy doesn't have to put that much on them to make them lose their objective. Maybe in Seize Ground but in Capture and Control I don't trust them to hold an objective so end up putting another troop unit there instead.

post deleted.

tboneswoodhouse wrote:I personally don't bother with grots anymore in KPs they are just a liability, In capture and control/Seize ground the enemy doesn't have to put that much on them to make them lose their objective. Maybe in Seize Ground but in Capture and Control I don't trust them to hold an objective so end up putting another troop unit there instead.

I'm not really sure what to do with this list to make it anymore viable or what else I could do. My meganobs did fine but they were eating by JOTWW and that's why I'm backing off them. The only problem with my other list would be scoring units for objective games. I could drop the kopta for a boys squad but I'm not sure what either list needs to make it a handle any sort of game list...

Warbuggies with Rokkits or Koptas?

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Warbuggies with Rokkits or Koptas?

Well, as it stands I only have 127 points barring any math mistakes I may have made. Which doesn't really leave me with alot I could do 3 squads of 1 kopta..
I may have to drop a nob or two and see what happens there it might open the points for 2 3 man rokkit buggy squads. I'm just not sure what to do with objective games. This list is just so fast and hard. It's either an amazing win or a horrid defeat imo.

Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

Yeah I have 2 squads at 280 apiece all the wagons are either 130 with a bshoota or 135 with a kannon Then the boys squads and meks. I could also do a couple of boys in trukks mobs...for objective gather late game and make some cc support?

Gharron wrote:

BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
Those are the BW's for now. Was going to look at them and see what I could do to them. I tried the kopta last time it just kinda sat there lol I dunno I also couldn't bring him in because of my opponents deployment so I had to swing him in the side and try to get rear armor it was a mess...I'm trying to lighten the load to get some buggies or make this list work in some way. Lol I'm not really sure what ghaz brings to the table a normal/meganob doesn't except more attacks and the big WAAAGH

Those Battlewagons are ok.

I am not sure why your Deffkopter is sitting there for. If you get first turn you scout the Deffkopta and gt a alpha strike in. If you go second you have more options; scout anyway to act as distraction, will haev 3+ cover save for going flat out and asborb some fire power. Outflank and be annoying or hide about and turbo boosting to capture objectives later in the game. Deffkoptas bring a massive amount to the table, though you should really have two.

Grace wrote:Erm lol? Ok, how do YOUR BW list deal with Paladins? Elaborate?

You never answered my question, what can Ghaz do what others can't when against Paladins?

Grace wrote:

Reckoner wrote:
Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

Before you recommend all those, have you already calculated the odds?

Also, you send in boys squad with Pk Nob into Paladins? Really? Would you show me the odds?

Uhh...yes. I play GK and Orks. Calculate the odds yourself. 120 Attacks on the charge in a unit of 30 boyz (not including the PK) vs. what, 7 attacks from Ghaz? Bear in mind that the Paladins can focus their attacks on a single character and not on a Nob, and also that Paladins get 2 attacks each for a total of 10 (assuming they are in a unit of 5). If they make those count against a single Character, there goes your assault. Against a mob of 30, it's not nearly enough to slow them. A mob of 30 boyz with pk bp nob costs roughly the same as Ghaz, and doesn't take up an HQ slot. A mob of 20 boyz is the largest size squad you can use in a BW list, which costs about 60 pts less. You're still getting over 80 attacks, you still should have a fearless squad after the first assault. Paladins lose to overwhelming dice rolls.

Give some shoota-skorcha's to some nobs somewhere. People who don't like shoota-skorchas...well...maybe you'll be one of them, but I love 'em. (TL is always TL, skorcha is one shot extra but template ST 5 AP 4 what a shot. Course you might ruin a good charge...with burnt bodies...muhahaha.)
Two Koptas, TL rokkits, 90pnts, buzzsaw on one...buzzsaw on both...140pnts...but you do not have it...you can afford to drop a WAAAGH!!! Banner. gives you 15pnts there.
A squad of 20 shootas in the back, 120pnts solid. Make it 21. 126.
2 seperate squads of ten shootas, whenever they get shot at, go to ground. They'll never run.
I usually do that, always saves my objective, one squad guarding the other squad, (but I also always add big shootas to my boyz. It helps pick off infantry, hasn't failed me)
DeffDread with two megablastas. Wait, how much is that, I never use those...um...might be exepensive...nope, 105pnts

Could also try five warbikers...but...125 pnts and they'd only be good for shooting and exsorbing fire. (3+ cover save on turbo)

I'd personally go 20 shootas, split in to two squads of ten or just as a whole.

My other pick is koptas. I love koptas, though they are hit and miss.

I didn't mention warbuggies, but 3 with TL rokkit is only 105, and you can field them seperately, which is really nice. Have extra points to give to nobz or wagons now.

Dred might be interesting, use extra points on your nobz or add a kannon to some of your BW's. (alla buggies.)

Ghaz has never failed me in a 2k point game, does anyone have a memory of Ghaz failing in a 2k pnt game?? That's my only defense for him against math or common sense which says just bring more boyz.

I love warbikers, but they don't get love from a lot of others, or without a nob with PK, their guns really are beautiful gunz though.

Did I mention that my big shootas on the boyz that stay in the back have more than once knocked Dark Eldar Vehicles out of the sky on their way to my objective, and that made me pretty happy I tell you.

Just throwing ideas

Runna wrote:Give some shoota-skorcha's to some nobs somewhere. People who don't like shoota-skorchas...well...maybe you'll be one of them, but I love 'em. (TL is always TL, skorcha is one shot extra but template ST 5 AP 4 what a shot. Course you might ruin a good charge...with burnt bodies...muhahaha.)
Two Koptas, TL rokkits, 90pnts, buzzsaw on one...buzzsaw on both...140pnts...but you do not have it...you can afford to drop a WAAAGH!!! Banner. gives you 15pnts there.
A squad of 20 shootas in the back, 120pnts solid. Make it 21. 126.
2 seperate squads of ten shootas, whenever they get shot at, go to ground. They'll never run.
I usually do that, always saves my objective, one squad guarding the other squad, (but I also always add big shootas to my boyz. It helps pick off infantry, hasn't failed me)
DeffDread with two megablastas. Wait, how much is that, I never use those...um...might be exepensive...nope, 105pnts

Could also try five warbikers...but...125 pnts and they'd only be good for shooting and exsorbing fire. (3+ cover save on turbo)

I'd personally go 20 shootas, split in to two squads of ten or just as a whole.

My other pick is koptas. I love koptas, though they are hit and miss.

I didn't mention warbuggies, but 3 with TL rokkit is only 105, and you can field them seperately, which is really nice. Have extra points to give to nobz or wagons now.

Dred might be interesting, use extra points on your nobz or add a kannon to some of your BW's. (alla buggies.)

Ghaz has never failed me in a 2k point game, does anyone have a memory of Ghaz failing in a 2k pnt game?? That's my only defense for him against math or common sense which says just bring more boyz.

I love warbikers, but they don't get love from a lot of others, or without a nob with PK, their guns really are beautiful gunz though.

Did I mention that my big shootas on the boyz that stay in the back have more than once knocked Dark Eldar Vehicles out of the sky on their way to my objective, and that made me pretty happy I tell you.

Just throwing ideas

Hmm I just don't feel like I played my kopta correctly. It sat in reserves til three and I couldn't really do much except run it until I got the saw into action. I think it was his deployment that wouldn't allow me to use it correctly I'm not totally sure =/ I could do some buggies it's just this list is so fast and heavy it's hard to let anything sit in the back...maybe I should try the 3 squads of 1 buggy thing...I'm just left wondering about more boys "Boys before toys" I could take trukks and have two squads with trukks and just leave me out of LoS with the truk and just objective hold. I could do shootas like you said or I could just leave me in the trukk with shootas...hmm

Post deleted.

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

This is the problem with the game right now. People feel that they have to table people to win. You win by playing for the objective. If you by chance table him then Good for you. No one should ever try to table someone.


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I personally just shoot Paladins. Or charge them with Dreads. Hoping there is no Libby to up there str and 2d6 armor pen.

Ghaz is no slouch. He is well worth the points that he is. but I feel you lose so many more models when you take him. I don't feel he is at all needed in a BW list. But If you feel you want him then that is your choice.

Now take in point this debate. Ghaz versus GK's(Pallies) The turn he waaghs he will be tough to deal with for sure and probably win combat. But he will die to GK's easier then he should. Overwhelming Force/power weapons. His waagh can only last for so long. Make sure you use it when it is needed the most, if not he is just another boss.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

This is the problem with the game right now. People feel that they have to table people to win. You win by playing for the objective. If you by chance table him then Good for you. No one should ever try to table someone.


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I personally just shoot Paladins. Or charge them with Dreads. Hoping there is no Libby to up there str and 2d6 armor pen.

Ghaz is no slouch. He is well worth the points that he is. but I feel you lose so many more models when you take him. I don't feel he is at all needed in a BW list. But If you feel you want him then that is your choice.

Now take in point this debate. Ghaz versus GK's(Pallies) The turn he waaghs he will be tough to deal with for sure and probably win combat. But he will die to GK's easier then he should. Overwhelming Force/power weapons. His waagh can only last for so long. Make sure you use it when it is needed the most, if not he is just another boss.

Well it's not so much about tabling it's just this list is lacking somewhere in the holding upbjectives side lol I'm still toying with 2 boys squads in the back holding upjectives...or some lootas I just don't know it's not so much about an utter win as the list just does it well

Well when I play Orks. I don't worry about "my home" objective. Which really is in only one mission. You only need one to win. Let it be theres. Why waste points sitting on an objective? Marines can do it because they have the armor, and the weapons to still give some support.

Now with the mission that you have d3+2. Well that is simple. Put the objectives where you plan on being. Towards the middle of the board or the other side of the board. That is where Orks should be. In the deployment zone by the end of the game. If you are not then you have allready lost, IMHO. Especially if you are Mech like you are.

Lootas are awesome, but I have never used them in a BW list. I just don't feel they fit. Even though I am a big Lootas fan. They don't really have the protection that they really need.

Its really tough for me to help, as I play my Wagon list totally different.

Better to run two koptas if your putting them in reserves, or just start them on the board and turbo them to the flanks of your enemies lines, even if they get shot down, with 2 wounds and T 5 (4 for ID) and the 3+ cover save they eat up a decent amount of your enemies first turn fire, giving your BW's the chance to move up. (If you go first or second I suppose.)
If you were to go second you could also Scout move, via turbo, to places where the enemy would have to prepare for them to pop up and attack, changing your opponents original tactics, as now they have two random tank hunters to worry about as well as five BW's that are very obviously coming straight up the front, but they don't want their rear armor accesible to the rokkits.

Going first, after a turbo scout move, means you get a 36" move, 42" charge and TL rokkit shot on whatever you feel like taking out.

So, reserves is something you put them in only if you feel you can win the game without them, but might need them later on due to bad dice rolls or your opponent making moves you didn't forsee, like a back-up plan.

Two seems neccessary with them for some reason, one usually busts pretty bad. In big games I usually run all three. (AOBR)

I have mixed feeling about koptas. I have tried them. They have not worked. I feel adding one is not a problem. It adds that lone chance to kill somehting that could hurt. If you do use more then one, make sure they are in seperate squads. Their low LD makes them useless in bigger squads.

You can try them out, but They might not pay out for you all the time. They do have their potential though.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well when I play Orks. I don't worry about "my home" objective. Which really is in only one mission. You only need one to win. Let it be theres. Why waste points sitting on an objective? Marines can do it because they have the armor, and the weapons to still give some support.

Now with the mission that you have d3+2. Well that is simple. Put the objectives where you plan on being. Towards the middle of the board or the other side of the board. That is where Orks should be. In the deployment zone by the end of the game. If you are not then you have allready lost, IMHO. Especially if you are Mech like you are.

Lootas are awesome, but I have never used them in a BW list. I just don't feel they fit. Even though I am a big Lootas fan. They don't really have the protection that they really need.

Its really tough for me to help, as I play my Wagon list totally different.

How does your BW list look? I just have 100 points leftover XD i have enough for some bikes and I see what you mean about it being there's. that's all I ever planned on anyway XD I could lay it as close to the middle as possible I suppose. I dunno what to do XD i've been trying and trying to figure it out and I have enough to run three squads of 1 buggie. Does anyone else have a list sitting around I could maybe use as a template?

I have only played it once as a proxy. I have yet to get all the BW's I need. Non the less here is what I ran.

Mek:KFF
Mek:KFF

Manz x5: 2x Skorchas
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks
Manz x5: 2x Skorchas
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks

Shootas x18: (Mek)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Shootas x18: (Mek)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Shootas x18:
-Nob: PK, BShoota

Kopta: Saw, Rokkit
Buggies x2: Trakks, Rokkits
Buggies x2: Trakks, Rokkits

-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Planks (Mek)
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Planks (Mek)
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks

My plan is to stay in Wagons with boys. Shooting everything, opening up vehicles with Rollas and Planks. Trakks provide cover both with shooting and assaults. Kopta hopefully gets a kill first turn.

Thats my plan, it worked pretty good the one time I played it to try it out.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I have only played it once as a proxy. I have yet to get all the BW's I need. Non the less here is what I ran.

Mek:KFF
Mek:KFF

Manz x5: 2x Skorchas
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks
Manz x5: 2x Skorchas
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks

Shootas x18: (Mek)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Shootas x18: (Mek)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Shootas x18:
-Nob: PK, BShoota

Kopta: Saw, Rokkit
Buggies x2: Trakks, Rokkits
Buggies x2: Trakks, Rokkits

-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Planks (Mek)
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Planks (Mek)
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks

My plan is to stay in Wagons with boys. Shooting everything, opening up vehicles with Rollas and Planks. Trakks provide cover both with shooting and assaults. Kopta hopefully gets a kill first turn.

Thats my plan, it worked pretty good the one time I played it to try it out.

hmm it seems like it could work. I've never been a big fan of ork shooting =[ how does snikrot fair in lists like BW? I know he could be awesome with a kan wall popping in when everything else hits but I'm not sure about mine and I don't know what the kommando happy place for squad size is (the other problem is having only slugga boys and no shootas D=)

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I have mixed feeling about koptas. I have tried them. They have not worked. I feel adding one is not a problem. It adds that lone chance to kill somehting that could hurt. If you do use more then one, make sure they are in seperate squads. Their low LD makes them useless in bigger squads.

You can try them out, but They might not pay out for you all the time. They do have their potential though.

I forgot to say that.

post deleted.

Ghaz kills 4+ paladins while his invulnerable is 2+. That is enough as there will be one left to deal with when the waaagh! ends. If he was in a mob that charged the paladins, all of the paladins die while his 2+ invul is in effect.

I take ghaz in all of my foot builds, but in the battlewagon build above I would deffrolla the paladins then tie them up with a mob.

My personal build would rokkit them until a deffrolla gets there, deffrolla them and finish them with burna templates. I do not fear small, expensive deathstars with my orks. I fear purifiers and flamer templates.

Grace wrote:
I can send in Ghaz into a squad of 5 paladins and have a good chance of winning combat. You can't.

I would love to know how you think I cannot win combat when I haven't even told you what I am using . You still haven't said what Ghaz can do what something else cannot which is so special. He can I.D Paladins, wow, so can any other power klaw. Ghaz isn't the single answer to Paladins, he's a answer.

FYI, lets say 5 Paladins have mixed wargear, so two psycannons (one master crafted), one halberd, one stave and one hammer. We know that Ghaz is eternal warrior, so force weapons won't do jack, so Paladins will cast hammerhand, which will more than likely go off. All Paladins except the hammer strike before Ghaz. Lets all say that Ghaz hasn't got 2+ inv because this really only lasts for a single turn so to speak, and isn't like this all the time.

So Paladins have a total of 8 attacks, which 4 hit and 3 wound whic Ghaz will fail two wounds, so two left.

Ghaz attacks back with 7 attacks, will hit 5 and wound with 4, these saves go on the swords, halberd and stave, which the halberd and a single sword will die. Three Paladins left and so far Paladins are losing combat by two.

Hammer strikes and hits and wounds with 1 and Ghaz will probably fail the save, Ghaz now has a single wound left. I think you get the picture for next turn...

Lets try this with 30 Boyz now. Paladins will use the same wargear as before and also use hammerhand.

So Paladins have a total of 8 attacks, which 5 hit and 3 wound, so 3 Boyz dead.

Boyz attack back now (will use Shoota Boyz as that's what I use), there's now 26 Boyz in total so 78 attacks, 39 hit, that's 20 wounds, so 2 wounds per Paladin. Out of that the Paladins will fail 3 wounds, let say for arguements sake these go on both psycannons and the stave. Nob then attacks with 4 attacks, hits with 2 and wounds with 2, the stave will pass but lets say a psycannon with sword will die as 50/50.

Hammer now strikes with 2 attacks, hits once and wounds once, that's another Boy smashed.

Looking back the Boyz have lost 4 wounds in total, Paladins have lost 4, combat is a draw. Paladins have 4 models left, though two are on three wounds.

Really, there's not a lot in it. Also factor in that the Shoota Boyz will fire before assaulting, which will probably put a wound or two on the Paladins before. Of course I am not counting if they have a Apothecary. Basically Ghaz will only be efficent when using the waaagh!, after that his survivibility drops a huge amount. It's all about getting to use him at the right time, if not then forget about it.

At the end of the day Ghaz isn't a must for dealing with Paladins. Orks have plenty of power klaws and weight of numbers. Ghaz isn't the only thing to deal with Paladins like you keeping saying and definitely isn't needed in a Battlewagon list, his auto 6" waaagh! isn't needed all that much.

Also I am not sure why you're so aggressive for, you do know this is toy soliders, right . Perhaps you should act like your name.








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Inigo Montoya wrote:Ghaz kills 4+ paladins while his invulnerable is 2+. That is enough as there will be one left to deal with when the waaagh! ends. If he was in a mob that charged the paladins, all of the paladins die while his 2+ invul is in effect.

Paladins do not auto fail invulnerable saves. Ghaz will hit 5 attacks and wound with 4, Paladins should have a swords and stave in the units, which 2 Paladins will die.

Grace wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I personally just shoot Paladins. Or charge them with Dreads. Hoping there is no Libby to up there str and 2d6 armor pen.

BW list don't use Dreads. What do you use to shoot at paladins?
True! I just use shootas to deal with them. The are only terminators after all. Small arms fire can kill terminatos just as easy as High str ones.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Ghaz is no slouch. He is well worth the points that he is. but I feel you lose so many more models when you take him. I don't feel he is at all needed in a BW list. But If you feel you want him then that is your choice.

It's not really a choice. He is the only efficient choice to deal with things like Paladins and TWCs.
Until his waagh is over, then he is just as good as a regular boss, IMHO. For almost double the points.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Now take in point this debate. Ghaz versus GK's(Pallies) The turn he waaghs he will be tough to deal with for sure and probably win combat. But he will die to GK's easier then he should. Overwhelming Force/power weapons. His waagh can only last for so long. Make sure you use it when it is needed the most, if not he is just another boss.

Of course when you use him, make sure it counts. But this argument holds for anything. Also, I forgot to add something. You can charge Ghaz into a squad of 5 paladins + Draigo, but you can't comfortably do that with 30 boys squad.
I do shooty Orks, so yeah I don't charge into most squads. I shoot them, comfortably I might say. Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't. It also depends on how they are coming at me. Are they DS'ing? Walking acrossed the oard? In a Land raider? Maybe even in a Stormraven? All of this really makes a difference.

Why would ghaz not have a 2+ invulnerable when he assaults the paladins? If he had the waaagh! used up then he will most assuredly be in a nobs mob or a mob of boys.

Any savvy player is going to save the waagh! for the charge on the paladins! That is how you use it. To assume that he just blindly charged into your deathstar is disingenous.

The paladins cannot stand up to ghaz on the waagh!, no amount of what-ifs will change that.

Is he the best choice for a battlewagon list? Not in my opinion.
Will he decimate 5 paladins on the charge with his waagh!? Nearly every time!

Because the G.K player could use something called tactics and avoid Ghaz while he has 2+ inv . If Ghaz is inside a mob of Boyz, then the Paladins can single him out as he's a I.C.

You're kind of missing the point that the 2+ inv only works once.

Will he decimate 5 Paladins on the charge? No, he will kill 2. Killing 2 models isn't decimating them at all.

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:You never answered my question, what can Ghaz do what others can't when against Paladins?

I can send in Ghaz into a squad of 5 paladins and have a good chance of winning combat. You can't.

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Reckoner wrote:
Uhh...yes. I play GK and Orks. Calculate the odds yourself. 120 Attacks on the charge in a unit of 30 boyz (not including the PK) vs. what, 7 attacks from Ghaz? Bear in mind that the Paladins can focus their attacks on a single character and not on a Nob, and also that Paladins get 2 attacks each for a total of 10 (assuming they are in a unit of 5). If they make those count against a single Character, there goes your assault. Against a mob of 30, it's not nearly enough to slow them. A mob of 30 boyz with pk bp nob costs roughly the same as Ghaz, and doesn't take up an HQ slot. A mob of 20 boyz is the largest size squad you can use in a BW list, which costs about 60 pts less. You're still getting over 80 attacks, you still should have a fearless squad after the first assault. Paladins lose to overwhelming dice rolls.

Ok. You just lost all your credibility.

First of all, the Paladins strikes first. Ok, so you didnt even get the basics right.
Next :-
5 Paladins, 10 attacks, 6.666 hits, 4.444 wounds, 4.444 dead orks.
25 orks, 4.16 wounds on the squad of Paladins.
1 Nob, 1.66 wounds on the Paladins, 0.693 unsaved wounds on Paladins (assuming 1 is allocated to Stave)

So ALREADY ASSUMING you get the charge, your odds of winning combat is only marginally higher than 50%.

Ghaz - 7 attacks, 3.889 wounds, 2.106 dead Paladins - 4 wounds
Paladins on Ghaz - 10 attacks, 0.416 unsaved wounds on Ghaz.

Ghaz COMFORTABLY wins combat.

My argument is simply - without Ghaz (in BW list), you don't have EFFICIENT ways to deal with Paladins. Key word being EFFICIENT.

Oh ya, also ANYTHING lose to OVERWHELMING dice rolls ; anything dies to 1,000 dice rolls, don't they?
It's the efficiency that counts.

Actually I do know the basics. Don't be a dick.

Edit: I messed up and for some reason thought boyz had base init 3 instead of 2. I was thinking of their base strength value...anyways

My point is, if my odds of winning combat against a Paladin squad with a mob of boyz is marginally above 50%, then that's great. I can have multiple boyz mobs around the battlefield. I can only have 1 Ghazkull. How is it efficient to rely on one model, especially if you could be dealing with more than one Paladin squad in a match? Besides, even if my Boyz lose a combat, they're still fearless.

Ghaz is a beast in close combat, there's no doubt. But the fact that I can still get the job done with a cheap boyz mob or multiple boyz mobs rather than take up a valuable hq slot and a wad of points? It makes it hard to totally throw my hat in with Ghaz. I guess if the Paladin's had an apothecary too then it would be a nightmare for Boyz, and I'd appreciate having Ghaz there. But overall, there are other ways to handle Paladins. Shooting for one like Balsak said.
I

Inigo Montoya wrote:Why would ghaz not have a 2+ invulnerable when he assaults the paladins? If he had the waaagh! used up then he will most assuredly be in a nobs mob or a mob of boys.

Any savvy player is going to save the waagh! for the charge on the paladins! That is how you use it. To assume that he just blindly charged into your deathstar is disingenous.

The paladins cannot stand up to ghaz on the waagh!, no amount of what-ifs will change that.

Is he the best choice for a battlewagon list? Not in my opinion.
Will he decimate 5 paladins on the charge with his waagh!? Nearly every time!

Well like others have said there could be more then one unit of Pallies. If Draigo is there then their is a good chance that there will be more theen one squad. Like Mercer said, good tactics on the GK players side. Like you said no amount of what ifs.

I have never said Ghaz couldn't do a good job against them. I am just saying that once his waagh is gone, he is just another Warboss. Its really not hard to understand that. What makes Ghaz the beast he is is because of that Waagh. But if you have to use it so you can charge or fit the first squad of pallies, then he is going to die with little in return. Just plan and simple. But I don't useally play with special characters because its just not my thing. So I like to be able to adapt with what I have.

Sounds like I need some shootas XD
I think (Only talking with my list as everyone else has had shootas) We would be letting the rollas and like my first list of lootas or even now burnas get ahold of pallys after being rolled and some shooting. It just doesn't seem smart to charge GK's with no ability like wolves to stop their psychic powers (Without having softened them up in someway)
Overall I know I have ALOT of gk players in my area. I know of 4 just off hand some playing henchman some playing purifiers and of course draigowing...I just haven't had the great and wonderful chance to play them (sarcasm) I've only played space wolves as of yet and I had my meganobs and the got tied up with wolf cav. so it just felt like they fell short =[
How does ghaz do so well against paladins? I know he's like a warboss on steroids (with his waagh) but I don't see him going completely ham on a squad and walking away unscathed and ready for the next potential 2-3 squads...

Gharron wrote:Sounds like I need some shootas XD
I think (Only talking with my list as everyone else has had shootas) We would be letting the rollas and like my first list of lootas or even now burnas get ahold of pallys after being rolled and some shooting. It just doesn't seem smart to charge GK's with no ability like wolves to stop their psychic powers (Without having softened them up in someway)
Overall I know I have ALOT of gk players in my area. I know of 4 just off hand some playing henchman some playing purifiers and of course draigowing...I just haven't had the great and wonderful chance to play them (sarcasm) I've only played space wolves as of yet and I had my meganobs and the got tied up with wolf cav. so it just felt like they fell short =[
How does ghaz do so well against paladins? I know he's like a warboss on steroids (with his waagh) but I don't see him going completely ham on a squad and walking away unscathed and ready for the next potential 2-3 squads...

]

A lot of the previous posts were debating how useful Ghaz is. The result seems to be that he can perform well against a Paladin squad when he charges in during Waaagh! However once that wears off his save is no longer invulnerable and therefore his survivability drops drastically.

Reckoner wrote:

Gharron wrote:Sounds like I need some shootas XD
I think (Only talking with my list as everyone else has had shootas) We would be letting the rollas and like my first list of lootas or even now burnas get ahold of pallys after being rolled and some shooting. It just doesn't seem smart to charge GK's with no ability like wolves to stop their psychic powers (Without having softened them up in someway)
Overall I know I have ALOT of gk players in my area. I know of 4 just off hand some playing henchman some playing purifiers and of course draigowing...I just haven't had the great and wonderful chance to play them (sarcasm) I've only played space wolves as of yet and I had my meganobs and the got tied up with wolf cav. so it just felt like they fell short =[
How does ghaz do so well against paladins? I know he's like a warboss on steroids (with his waagh) but I don't see him going completely ham on a squad and walking away unscathed and ready for the next potential 2-3 squads...

]

A lot of the previous posts were debating how useful Ghaz is. The result seems to be that he can perform well against a Paladin squad when he charges in during Waaagh! However once that wears off his save is no longer invulnerable and therefore his survivability drops drastically.

Oh I got it. I just keep seeing the same thing over and over it just seems like maybe he gets through one squad but if there are two? He's pretty much a point sink?

He is a beast. In a foot army he is indispensable - giving what is left of 180 boyz fleet to charge - holy cow that is unreal.

In a battlewagon list he is overpriced for what you need. He is still beast, but not really needed.

Inigo Montoya wrote:He is a beast. In a foot army he is indispensable - giving what is left of 180 boyz fleet to charge - holy cow that is unreal.

In a battlewagon list he is overpriced for what you need. He is still beast, but not really needed.

Well, his waagh other than making him invuln doesn't do much for me and I could have meganobs that really do the same thing for less points. and my wagons led me right to the assault point so I won't need that..
Has anyone tried mad dok? like with a wagon list? I dunno I'm still looking at about 150 points and I guess it's just gonna go to 3 buggies and some BW upgrades...I thought better of adding the other boys, I can just lay my objective close and conga line between it and their objective.

I've seen Mad Dok used in a foot slogging list, not very successfully though. The concept was that he would be attached to a large boyz mob in the front which would have the invulnerable save and then screen the mobz behind it. Sort of pointless when you could just take a Big Mek w/ KFF and do almost the same thing.

With independent characters you really have to look at the special rules they provide first, then look at their cost. If they are providing something to your list that is worth the points difference between them and a regular HQ then they might be worth taking. However, most lists involving a character are built mostly around that character to maximize the benefit they provide. (Crowe Purifiers, Draigowing, Wazdakka Bikers, Ghazkull Tide etc...) As far as I know, there is no Ork IC that provides a dramatic benefit to a Battlewagon Rush list.

Reckoner wrote:I've seen Mad Dok used in a foot slogging list, not very successfully though. The concept was that he would be attached to a large boyz mob in the front which would have the invulnerable save and then screen the mobz behind it. Sort of pointless when you could just take a Big Mek w/ KFF and do almost the same thing.

With independent characters you really have to look at the special rules they provide first, then look at their cost. If they are providing something to your list that is worth the points difference between them and a regular HQ then they might be worth taking. However, most lists involving a character are built mostly around that character to maximize the benefit they provide. (Crowe Purifiers, Draigowing, Wazdakka Bikers, Ghazkull Tide etc...) As far as I know, there is no Ork IC that provides a dramatic benefit to a Battlewagon Rush list.

I'd be better off just staying with my 2 big meks. I could maybe take a normal warboss with a few upgrades to make a nobs unit a troops choice I suppose. I could deck him out (not to much but enough) and put him in with a nobs squad in a wagon and give him the waaagh banner and a few other things to boost him up...

Yes you could do that. Though, I usually like to keep my WB separate from the Nob wagon. It makes your opponent have to think more about target prioritization.

I think you should stick with what you have for now. If you find five wagons is too many, try it out with 4 and mix in some other units. That would allow you some more variation. I like Burna Wagons, some really like Warbikers, and you can always use more Rokkit buggies and Lootas.

post deleted.

You've made 7 posts and you're earning yourself a bad reputation on Dakka already. How about you chill out or make a "graceful" exit.

post deleted.

LOL. It's the same. You don't even know the BASIC. I need not say more.

Sorry to spoil your nerdgasm. The base strength for Ork boyz is 3. The base initiative for Ork boyz is 2.

You idea is flawed. 225 points of efficiency is 225 pts of efficiency. Number of models is irrelevant. If i can COMFORTABLY win combat, why should i choose to marginally win combat? Fielding Ghaz gives you alot more flexibility in your combat choices than if you have boys only.

You can comfortably win one combat. If Ghazkull makes it to that combat. Multiple boyz squads means more areas of the field can be covered. The flexibility added to my combat choices with Ghaz is that I have one extra unit that will perform better, for the one turn I Waaagh! Apart from that, not amazing returns on my investment.

HQ slot? Really? Tell me what you will take to fill the 2nd HQ slot for a BW list. 2nd Big Mek? Weirdboy?

Yes, a second Big mek. In a list with 5 BWs, a second KFF is valuable. It means more protected flexibility and mobility options with the wagons.

Cheaper? We already done the math and showed that at about the same pt cost, Ghaz is much more efficient in killing the Paladins than the 30 boys.

You did the math and found out he was more efficient in killing Paladins for one turn out of the game. Good job. How about the rest of the game, or other Paladin squads?

Oh yeah, I saw. balsak_da_mighty said shoot them, with shootas. I LOL-ed
EVEN with 60 shoota boys, 120 shots, you are only averaging 40 hits, 20 wounds, 3.33 unsaved wounds on DOUBLE wound paladins. WOW, really wow. Add in all your lootas, big shootas, from your WHOLE army, and that number isnt going to exceed 6 or 7 ? So really. It is not like I need to put you down, but you've just lost all your credibility with some of the things you said.

Again with the excessive acronymized nerdgasming. It has to stop. The way balsak plays is he shoots from the Battlewagons. If played correctly, Paladins can't scratch the AV14 front with ranged. He just kites them. It's a way of dealing with Paladins; is it the best way? Nobody ever said that. You've just lost all your credibility for being a douche.

I did. I have just GRACEFULLY showed you your mistakes

Yeah, you proved me wrong alright. I didn't think it was possible for someone on this forum to have a more bloated and misconstrued opinion of themselves.

Wow, I am amazed at the ego that this person has.

I have said nothing to make you attack my way of playing Grace. I have said Ghaz is a nice choice for the one turn he waaghs. Which I am sorry is true. But after that he is just as good as a Warboss in Megarmor.

Grace I almost die laughing. So what? You have 2-3 squads of 20 boys in wagon with a klaw nob each, a squad of nob in wagon maybe, and you call that weigh of numbers and klaws? How is that going to deal with 3-4 squads of Paladins + Draigo?

This makes me laugh. You have just proved our point. You are saying that Ghaz is going to deal with 3-4 squads of Paladins? I think not. Even if he has support, which he should from Manz, Boys, or Nobs he will still be singled out and die the turn after he ends the Waagh. And yes I know it is each players turn. I will grant you he might kill one squad by himself. Its possible. Then his 2+ invul is going off without him being in combat. Hum, a little useless if you ask me. I am not really sure where you get this idea that Ghaz is that powerful. He is an awesome HQ even though he is 225 points. But he can still die just as easily as a Mek or Nob can given the right, or wrong cercumstance which ever way you like to look at it.

Grace Oh yeah, I saw. balsak_da_mighty said shoot them, with shootas. I LOL-ed
EVEN with 60 shoota boys, 120 shots, you are only averaging 40 hits, 20 wounds, 3.33 unsaved wounds on DOUBLE wound paladins. WOW, really wow. Add in all your lootas, big shootas, from your WHOLE army, and that number isnt going to exceed 6 or 7 ? So really. It is not like I need to put you down, but you've just lost all your credibility with some of the things you said.

Now as far as me shooting. Yes that is the way I play my orks. I have been playing like that for awhile now. It works for me and I have a good win record doing so. Mass fire ends up wounding more then you think. If I roll good enough to make you roll 3+ wounds on each Palladin then I am almost guarantied a 1 will be rolled on a few of those Palladins. Which is enough for me. I don't believe in mathammer, nor do Orks. So they will surprise you with what they are capable of.

GraceLOL. You speak like the GK player is a genius and the ork player a slow. If the orks are riding in wagons and draigowing footslogging, I don't see how it is more likely that the GK are avoiding the orks than it is the other way round.

Have you ever heard of the wagon getting destroyed? Or maybe the wagon at the very least gets immobilized. These could happen. There for there mobility is gone. So the Gk player could out move the Meganobs, as the do have S&P. Which means the Gk's might get the charge off. Or hell shoot them at range with psyfilmen Dreads. Fail that save its by by for the Manz, or Nobs. You might want to really think of all the possiblities before you come on here trying to start a fight that you will not be able to win.

I am in now way upset or mad about what was said. I type to you as an adult. I would expect the same from you.

I'm painting my ghazzy as we speak and I've been thinking about it (I have a gk purifier spam list as well) and there's just no way or even reason (in a battlewagon list) to take ghazzy. if I'm going head to head with someone my wagons will carry me to the fore in 2 turns I start the deff rolla funtimes and from there I hit whatever squishees pop out. I lost 1 wagon the whole game and it was because I let thunderwolf cav get behind me for rear armor. I think ghazzy is way more points that I could ever use and when I'm blowing 560 points for 12 models and adding him in is close to 800 there's no way lol. A death star that may be but efficient I think not.
Overall I could take a warboss later in the game squad him up with nobs if I've lost the boys he started out with (lost a whole 19 man squad of boys but had a nob so it could happen =P) and let the warboss have an attack squig and all the upgrades that come with nobs and be as good or better (for a wagon rush) than ghazzy. All of this is IMHO of course but I've read and watched a lot of material and I could see him giving a 2nd turn 180 boy rush that extra 6 and making them hit sooo hard on that charge but when I have potentially 30 strength 10 hits plus all of the nobs attacks there's not a lot I can't tear right through.

Post deleted.

Reds8n

Grace wrote:

Reckoner wrote:Sorry to spoil your nerdgasm. The base strength for Ork boyz is 3. The base initiative for Ork boyz is 2.

LOL why are you speaking the obvious. I think almost everyone knows that. At least anyone who plays ork. Not sure what you trying to prove here

Reckoner wrote:You can comfortably win one combat. If Ghazkull makes it to that combat. Multiple boyz squads means more areas of the field can be covered. The flexibility added to my combat choices with Ghaz is that I have one extra unit that will perform better, for the one turn I Waaagh! Apart from that, not amazing returns on my investment.

"More areas of the field" ? I seriously don't know what GAK you are talking about, LOL .
For the turn that Ghaz waaghs, he performs MUCH MUCH better than a squad of 30 boys at the same cost. (Ghaz takes 0.416w, deals 4Ws)
For the turn that Ghaz does not waaaghs, he still performs better than a squad of 30 boys at the same cost. (Ghaz takes 1.6w, deals 4Ws)
So seriously, I once again don't see what you are talking about, except that you are arguing for the sake of arguing, LOL.

Reckoner wrote:
Yes, a second Big mek. In a list with 5 BWs, a second KFF is valuable. It means more protected flexibility and mobility options with the wagons.

Please show us your list at 1750 or 2k. We would like to see how "AWESOME" it is. Without that, i can't comment on your choice.

Reckoner wrote:You did the math and found out he was more efficient in killing Paladins for one turn out of the game. Good job. How about the rest of the game, or other Paladin squads?

I did too Did you even READ? Not only you can't get the basics right, you can't do math, but you can't read as well. You know what? Throughout the whole argument, you were just riding on my mathhammer. I suspect you don't really know how to calculate your odds when considering the pros and cons of units.

Reckoner wrote:
Again with the excessive acronymized nerdgasming. It has to stop. The way balsak plays is he shoots from the Battlewagons. If played correctly, Paladins can't scratch the AV14 front with ranged. He just kites them. It's a way of dealing with Paladins; is it the best way? Nobody ever said that. You've just lost all your credibility for being a douche.

LOL? And then what? Paladins hit your wagons on 4+ in assault. AWESOME.

Reckoner wrote:Yeah, you proved me wrong alright. I didn't think it was possible for someone on this forum to have a more bloated and misconstrued opinion of themselves.

Maybe I am. But the opportunity arose because the person i m speaking against has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. I think if you had talked sense (or maybe at least got the basics right), that wouldnt have happen

Throw up your 1750 or 2k list? BW of course =D

Grace wrote:LOL. Then lets forget about the argument. Because the 2+ is one of the best thing Ghaz has. You might as well say I play with 500 points handicap . It is for that 2 players turn that I set up myelf to make it count. If you do not know how to make the best use of it to make it count, then it's your problem as a general, not the unit.

It's not the point on knowing how to work a unit, it's the point that you're making out a unit is the only solution to one unit in a single army, who cares are Paladins? You also keep talking about this 2+ inv, yet it only works once, you will be 5+ inv more often than not. I am being realistic, you are cherry picking your results in your favour.

LOL. You speak like the GK player is a genius and the ork player a slow. If the orks are riding in wagons and draigowing footslogging, I don't see how it is more likely that the GK are avoiding the orks than it is the other way round.

Why you presuming Paladins are on foot? Who said about Dragiowing?

You forgot about combat resolution. It's not everything, but at least they are testing at 5 or 6. And anyway, ghaz has 2 rounds to go at it.

As for your math, you can already forget about it because while you were still trolling and speaking in circles, i ve already done the math with reckoner. It's not like your math is any different. Also, funny that you spoke of BW list, and suddenly you are talking about 30 boys

Trolling what? I think you need to look at the mirror about being a troll.

I am telling you that there's other solutions to beating Paladins (not sure why you have a boner for Paladins, you a G.K hater or something?). You keep saying that Ghaz is the only unit in the Ork army which can deal with Paladins, you are incorrect.

Apologies for the above.

It's truly astonishing how barren and meaningless some people's lives are eh ?

Agreed, just toy soliders. Why rage over the internet at people who you're not going to meet? Who cares if strangers don't agree with you. TOY SOLIDERS.

reds8n wrote: Apologies for the above.

It's truly astonishing how barren and meaningless some people's lives are eh ?

Ah, I missed what he had to say. lol

It takes all types I guess..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

grace_laughs wrote:
Amusuing, isnt it?

Why, Yes you are!

Doesn't the mad Dok give those 30 boyz 9FnP as per his wargear special rules??? (not gonna check tired, lazy.)
I always wanted to run him in a tankbusta heavy list for some reason.
That's a random notion I can throw at you, I love Tankbustas, I love fielding them, and I win with them, but a lot of people don't like them.
So, the more you play, the more you'll find what units work better for you.
If you don't like shooting, man, run the sluggas. (Though I bet you grow into liking the dakka ork lists can put out.)
I'd say keep the two KFF's because you also have two meks who can repair your wagons on hand with it.
Warbuggies get the 4+ cover save from that forcefield, which is also useful if you go the way of the buggy.

Runna wrote:Doesn't the mad Dok give those 30 boyz 9FnP as per his wargear special rules??? (not gonna check tired, lazy.)
I always wanted to run him in a tankbusta heavy list for some reason.
That's a random notion I can throw at you, I love Tankbustas, I love fielding them, and I win with them, but a lot of people don't like them.
So, the more you play, the more you'll find what units work better for you.
If you don't like shooting, man, run the sluggas. (Though I bet you grow into liking the dakka ork lists can put out.)
I'd say keep the two KFF's because you also have two meks who can repair your wagons on hand with it.
Warbuggies get the 4+ cover save from that forcefield, which is also useful if you go the way of the buggy.

Hmm, I have the points for 3 buggies. Do you think it's worth only running 3?

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

reds8n wrote: Apologies for the above.

It's truly astonishing how barren and meaningless some people's lives are eh ?

Ah, I missed what he had to say. lol

It takes all types I guess..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

grace_laughs wrote:
Amusuing, isnt it?

Why, Yes you are!

Gharron quoted what he wrote to me at least a few posts back if you want to read it Balsak. It's just more of the same ravings.

Gharron, here is the 2k list I've been trying out. It isn't completely streamlined to have maximum competitiveness but it's a lot of fun to play with, kind of fluffy, and provides a few different unit types to play around with.I have just been using 1 Big Mek for now since it's 4 wagons not 5. It has worked pretty well so far, only thing is it is light on Boyz. I can always swap out the crew of the Burna wagon if I feel like I'm playing against a list that requires more Boyz.

A few things you may notice
The Warboss - Just a Big Choppa and a cybork body for good measure. Reason why is that I use the WB for Nob Troops and also I don't think PK Warbosses are amazing. They hit last with a PK so in some cases he just gets killed before he strikes. The Big choppa on the other hand is very cheap and allows the WB to deliver 5 (6 if you pitch for an attack squig) S8 attacks on the charge at initiative 5. Doesn't ignore armor saves, but it aint bad. In a Nob squad with a Waaagh! Banner I believe it boosts the WS of the WB as well to 6.

Moar Lootas - I really like Lootas, I think they're fun and as a fluff concept they're just hilarious. I also think they are valuable anti-armor and anti-heavy infantry. With 22 lootas on the field, I can cover my corners with that 48'' range and take down transports, dreads, and anything that tries to get around my wagons to get hit the side and rear armour. They're capable of putting some decent wounds on heavy infantry too. If I roll a 5 or 6 and a unit lets off 33 shots, they're making around 11 of them, and wounding on 2+ against most types of inf.

Burnas - Burna wagons are not only fun but they are dead killy. Having 15 of them in a BW is a nightmare for enemy infantry. They go with the Mek.

Wagons - I like to arm my wagons a bit more heavily than some. I want to keep them moving and I see the benefit of Grot riggers and armor plates.

Total : 1998 Pts

HQ
Big Mek w/ KFF
Warboss w/ BC, Cybork

Elites
15x Burna Boyz
11x Lootas
11x Lootas

Troops
18x Boyz w/ PK BP Nob
18x Boyz w/ PK BP Nob
Nobz - Painboy, BP/PK, PK, Banner, BC, Normal - in BW w/ AP, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job

Fast Attack
3x Rokkit Buggy
3x Rokkit Buggy

Heavy
BW w/ AP, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job
BW w/ AP, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job
BW w/ AP, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job

There it is, I've played a few games so far and it hasn't lost yet.

EDIT: And yeah, I think 3 Buggies are worth it in your list. You can screen your wagons from assaults, and they offer 3 TL-Rokkit shots a turn which can make a big difference.

Oh yeah, flame wars. When I saw Balsak, Reckoner, and Mercer here, I knew I couldn't say anything they wouldn't cover so I just bowed out of this thread

Gharron, I'll tell you right now, those three won't steer you wrong. I have a weird gamer fantasy that someday the lot of us could meet up and start a WAAAGH!!! that would consume the better half of Imperial space.

After reading all that, it's difficult to remember some of the questions, so:

Lootas do mesh well with the Battlewagon rush. Being stationary doesn't matter, just leave them in terrain and let them blast away....they're happier for it.

Meganobz are fine, and a fantastic "bang for your buck" purchase. A nob w/PK and 'EA costs 50 points, and only has a 4+ save. No, you can't get FNP, Cybork, or full diversified benefits....it's a trade-off.

You don't necessarily need shoota boyz. It's just a different strategy.

Ghaz is a beast, but IMO, overpriced for a BW rush. I believe that he shines within a Green Tide, where many massive units of boyz can benefit from that 6" run. Incidentally, someone mentioned that he gives them fleet. The WAAAGH!!! gives them fleet, with or without Ghaz. He just guarantees a 6" run and gives them fearless(but the mob sizes probably means they are anyway), and himself an invulnerable save.

I'm not a fan of Kommandos in a mechanized list. I think they're fine for foot slogging.

Here:
My Sampler Platter 2k Battlewagon list

It's a bit of everything, and you can use points to substitute meganobz for nobz.

Brother Taurinus wrote:Oh yeah, flame wars. When I saw Balsak, Reckoner, and Mercer here, I knew I couldn't say anything they wouldn't cover so I just bowed out of this thread

Gharron, I'll tell you right now, those three won't steer you wrong. I have a weird gamer fantasy that someday the lot of us could meet up and start a WAAAGH!!! that would consume the better half of Imperial space.

After reading all that, it's difficult to remember some of the questions, so:

Lootas do mesh well with the Battlewagon rush. Being stationary doesn't matter, just leave them in terrain and let them blast away....they're happier for it.

Meganobz are fine, and a fantastic "bang for your buck" purchase. A nob w/PK and 'EA costs 50 points, and only has a 4+ save. No, you can't get FNP, Cybork, or full diversified benefits....it's a trade-off.

You don't necessarily need shoota boyz. It's just a different strategy.

Ghaz is a beast, but IMO, overpriced for a BW rush. I believe that he shines within a Green Tide, where many massive units of boyz can benefit from that 6" run. Incidentally, someone mentioned that he gives them fleet. The WAAAGH!!! gives them fleet, with or without Ghaz. He just guarantees a 6" run and gives them fearless(but the mob sizes probably means they are anyway), and himself an invulnerable save.

I'm not a fan of Kommandos in a mechanized list. I think they're fine for foot slogging.

Here:
My Sampler Platter 2k Battlewagon list

It's a bit of everything, and you can use points to substitute meganobz for nobz.

Hmm, I have the five wagons and I have burnas and lootas to cover most lists that you guys have thrown up...I just worry with lootas because there's a guy who has snikrot in his army and I worry about leaving lootas behind to get cut down by them...Are the two squads of nobs I have to much? Do you guys feel like the list is missing something? I don't mind having a bit more variety I just love seeing all those wagons moving up the board and my opponent having to focus one and MAYBE getting one down before I'm on top of him. I liked my megnobs but I feel like there are so many other "heavy" units that fill that role better than them. Termies and thunderwolf cav have an invuln =/ isn't there an HQ that gives everyone cybork for 5 points...may have to reread that again (don't you judge me reck!) I just kind of get lost with all of the great options orks have XD when I started my GK's it was easy take this this and this YOU WIN! orks have to be planned a little better XD (which is mind boggling =O) but I digress, I like most of the lists I've seen I don't have the shootas to cover it and I think maybe losing a wagon might be a decent plan. In reck's list though there doesn't seem to be much scoring? Is that just the plague orks suffer? We want to be so deep in on the enemy our objective may be contested at best? (I know we should be on their's but our scoring units are always at the fore..I suppose we could conga line them back a bit if it came down to it...
Either way I have everything to cover reck's list and my own I just worry about meganobs again because everyone's running mech lists with some kind of "heavy" termie or something hard to kill. I'm sure meganobs can do it but only having a 2+ armor save is..saddening to me for some reason. Anyway, I may drop a wagon and see where those points take me.

Well, like I've said before, I've never run the same list twice so far....I just throw things together....now the difference may be subtle, like dropping a couple warbikers for a couple more lootas, or whatever, but it's different each time. I do like having a burna wagon, though it replaces a boyz wagon.

The IC is Mad Dok Grotsnik....and yes, any infantry or jump infantry can take cybork for 5 points, but he's a pain to use, since he and his unit gain rage. This isn't necessarily a BIG problem, but placement dictates your target, and you can't exercise your discretion. Other than that, he's an underpowered warboss with a PK and dok tools(FNP).

Honestly if you are going for the charge, the sluggas are probably the better choice. I know if that is what I wanted to do that would be my plan.

Honestly I think you are trying ot over think it a bit. Orks are really pretty simple to play, esepically CC Orks. Just get there as fast as possible. Its really trial and error in my opinion. I am different then Borther. I play a list and find out what is missing and then fix that and stick with it for awhile. Until I get bored winning anyways. But do what you feel might be the best. Just because you see our lists doesn't mean that they will work for you. We all have different ideas of tactics and strategies. Find what works for you. I have been playing a very long time. !3 years to be exact. I started with Orks. I lost alot when I started. But now its hard for me to lose.

Anyways I think you have a good start. Just play it a few times and try to fix what you might be lacking in your list. And then try, try again. :lol

Brother Taurinus wrote:Well, like I've said before, I've never run the same list twice so far....I just throw things together....now the difference may be subtle, like dropping a couple warbikers for a couple more lootas, or whatever, but it's different each time. I do like having a burna wagon, though it replaces a boyz wagon.

The IC is Mad Dok Grotsnik....and yes, any infantry or jump infantry can take cybork for 5 points, but he's a pain to use, since he and his unit gain rage. This isn't necessarily a BIG problem, but placement dictates your target, and you can't exercise your discretion. Other than that, he's an underpowered warboss with a PK and dok tools(FNP).

Did you see the last list I posted? What did you think of it? Is there just to much going into the wagons and nobs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Honestly if you are going for the charge, the sluggas are probably the better choice. I know if that is what I wanted to do that would be my plan.

Honestly I think you are trying ot over think it a bit. Orks are really pretty simple to play, esepically CC Orks. Just get there as fast as possible. Its really trial and error in my opinion. I am different then Borther. I play a list and find out what is missing and then fix that and stick with it for awhile. Until I get bored winning anyways. But do what you feel might be the best. Just because you see our lists doesn't mean that they will work for you. We all have different ideas of tactics and strategies. Find what works for you. I have been playing a very long time. !3 years to be exact. I started with Orks. I lost alot when I started. But now its hard for me to lose.

Anyways I think you have a good start. Just play it a few times and try to fix what you might be lacking in your list. And then try, try again. :lol

haha I'm just trying to get it at least SOMEWHAT right before I go. I'm still really new as I said it's just going there is a chore and to go with something that's not even close to a winning army is painful to think of XD

You leave the Dok in the BW and you might enjoy the benefits, but you don't really have enough points to benefite from the cybork. You'd also have to lose a BM, so maybe one squad could get it.
If you were running MegaNobz and hooked them up with the Dok, that...makes me feel silly for never thinking of it...might be a decent thing in a BW list...

Hmm, I have the five wagons and I have burnas and lootas to cover most lists that you guys have thrown up...I just worry with lootas because there's a guy who has snikrot in his army and I worry about leaving lootas behind to get cut down by them...

Well look at it this way, if you're worried about Snikrot outflanking your Lootas think about points. Having let's say 5 Lootas sitting in a corner is costing you 75 points to plug away at stuff for the first couple turns. After that your boyz mobs probably be in assault anyway and you'll have less to shoot at. The first couple turns are when Lootas are going to be doing their most important work.

Then look at the cost trade off. If you can get those Lootas to take down something worth more than themselves, then you've made a good investment. If they don't and your opponenet outflanks, then they have used an expensive unit to come in and kill 75 points worth of Lootas. Snikrot himself is 85 points! Tack on the rest of the points for the Kommandos squad as well. It's a win-win for you.

Oh yeah, flame wars. When I saw Balsak, Reckoner, and Mercer here, I knew I couldn't say anything they wouldn't cover so I just bowed out of this thread

Gharron, I'll tell you right now, those three won't steer you wrong. I have a weird gamer fantasy that someday the lot of us could meet up and start a WAAAGH!!! that would consume the better half of Imperial space.

We could have used you anyway Taurinus. If I can say one thing about that spaz Grace, he has an ego comparable to Ghazkull. Maybe that's why he is so hot for him...and Paladins as well we noticed. As for your fantasy, weird? I wouldn't say so. Unlikely? Yeah...only because half of Imperial Space would just be an appetizer

Gharron wrote:
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

This one?

So it's 2 KFF's for the points, and you took two mobs of 19 obviously to go within.

Those battlewagons only cost 130 points for what you have listed. You've spent 1848 points, leaving you with 152. If you leave it the way it is, you could take a couple suicide koptas and add a couple shoota/skorchas. I'm not big on suicide koptas....when they work, they work well.....when they don't, they're lost points. Crap shoot. You could take a unit of 10 lootas...I'd rather field 2 x 5 but there are two elites taken up with nobz.

This list is killy, Gharron. It's a great "In your face" list. I personally prefer a little ranged punch, which I normally get with some lootas and/or rokkit buggies. They can pick off dreadoughts, small units pestering you, pop tansports, etc., and give your list a whole new level.

If I were to make minor tweaks, it would be like this: Drop a PK from each nob unit...while I like 3, I believe that 2 will carry you to victory. 202 points. Add 3 rokkit buggies. 97 points left. 5 lootas. 22 points. 4 x shoota/skorchas. 1998 spent. Move that WAAAGH!!! Banner to the PK/BP nob.....I like leaving him for last. Add a couple shoota/skorchas to each unit....say 1 on the nob who USED to have a PK....and the other on any except the regular nob. You still have wound allocation....and a charge will most likely get you around 5 MEQ deaths from the PK's alone....which will wipe out a small unit, or most likely get them during THEIR assault phase which is even better.....you don't get shot, and you're available to move, shoot, assault again on YOUR next turn.

The lootas give you some transport popping capability....though I prefer a couple units. The rokkit buggies do the same, and also screen your wagons, gaining the cover save and can block enemy assaults.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reckoner wrote:[ As for your fantasy, weird? I wouldn't say so. Unlikely? Yeah...only because half of Imperial Space would just be an appetizer

Hah! So true! I eat marines for breakfast. Seriously. I pour pancakes into marine shapes and eat them. My daughter has taken a liking to Orks and 'nids, so I've begun the process of training for a second generation MEQ eater

Oh, you can't keep the Dok in a transport, he has rage, gives it to any unit he joins, and can't leave the unit until it's destroyed. The FAQ allows for him to enter a transport....as long as it's used to get him closer to the closest enemy unit(at max movement though flat out isn't required).

with my orks i use as many skorchas or burnaz as i possibly can, reduce the possibility of not killin something is fairly low. i use this:
Burny Ork Wall of Speed
Ork Warboss
Big Mek
Big Mob of Ork Nobz x10, 2 units
Big Mob of Ard Boyz unit of 20
Killy Dredz (skorcha/rokkit)

Stompa (don't own yet but want to buy atleast 3)
Big Urty Ramming Tank (battlewagon size of a battlefortress, armed again with either burna or skorcha, but instead of deff rolla a re-inforced ram)
Wave of grotz (over 45 grots)
Big Mob of Burna Boyz (atleast max transport size)
War Buggies-burna
and a complement of Battlewagons-skorcha or burna (not sure where i left my ork codex)

Brother Taurinus wrote:

Gharron wrote:
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

This one?

So it's 2 KFF's for the points, and you took two mobs of 19 obviously to go within.

Those battlewagons only cost 130 points for what you have listed. You've spent 1848 points, leaving you with 152. If you leave it the way it is, you could take a couple suicide koptas and add a couple shoota/skorchas. I'm not big on suicide koptas....when they work, they work well.....when they don't, they're lost points. Crap shoot. You could take a unit of 10 lootas...I'd rather field 2 x 5 but there are two elites taken up with nobz.

This list is killy, Gharron. It's a great "In your face" list. I personally prefer a little ranged punch, which I normally get with some lootas and/or rokkit buggies. They can pick off dreadoughts, small units pestering you, pop tansports, etc., and give your list a whole new level.

If I were to make minor tweaks, it would be like this: Drop a PK from each nob unit...while I like 3, I believe that 2 will carry you to victory. 202 points. Add 3 rokkit buggies. 97 points left. 5 lootas. 22 points. 4 x shoota/skorchas. 1998 spent. Move that WAAAGH!!! Banner to the PK/BP nob.....I like leaving him for last. Add a couple shoota/skorchas to each unit....say 1 on the nob who USED to have a PK....and the other on any except the regular nob. You still have wound allocation....and a charge will most likely get you around 5 MEQ deaths from the PK's alone....which will wipe out a small unit, or most likely get them during THEIR assault phase which is even better.....you don't get shot, and you're available to move, shoot, assault again on YOUR next turn.

The lootas give you some transport popping capability....though I prefer a couple units. The rokkit buggies do the same, and also screen your wagons, gaining the cover save and can block enemy assaults.




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Reckoner wrote:[ As for your fantasy, weird? I wouldn't say so. Unlikely? Yeah...only because half of Imperial Space would just be an appetizer

Hah! So true! I eat marines for breakfast. Seriously. I pour pancakes into marine shapes and eat them. My daughter has taken a liking to Orks and 'nids, so I've begun the process of training for a second generation MEQ eater

Oh, you can't keep the Dok in a transport, he has rage, gives it to any unit he joins, and can't leave the unit until it's destroyed. The FAQ allows for him to enter a transport....as long as it's used to get him closer to the closest enemy unit(at max movement though flat out isn't required).

lol I was wondering how long it would take you to say something about all of this! It's only been 6 pages =P I've noticed every race has it's "can always help a list" crew and I see reck merc has helped a lot on most things and you taur and then bals has been awesome too! I liked the lootas I mean shooting up long fangs because they're worried about my kopta and out of their razorbacks was awesome...I haven't played any other besides wolves so I don't know how this list would fair against mech blood angels (my next opponent I hope) He said he runs three vindicatos and if I can get weapon destorys on those with the lootas (not sure what their AV is) then those lootas are worth their weight in gold XD I could also set them up to give fire support to both sides of the board I suppose. Our boards normally have a BIG terrain and 4 smaller pieces sor of making an X (I'm not sure if that's standard board setup or not forgive me) so I may have more lootas! I love the rolling for how many shots they get. When I see that for them I just hop up and down XD


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Reckoner wrote:

Hmm, I have the five wagons and I have burnas and lootas to cover most lists that you guys have thrown up...I just worry with lootas because there's a guy who has snikrot in his army and I worry about leaving lootas behind to get cut down by them...

Well look at it this way, if you're worried about Snikrot outflanking your Lootas think about points. Having let's say 5 Lootas sitting in a corner is costing you 75 points to plug away at stuff for the first couple turns. After that your boyz mobs probably be in assault anyway and you'll have less to shoot at. The first couple turns are when Lootas are going to be doing their most important work.

Then look at the cost trade off. If you can get those Lootas to take down something worth more than themselves, then you've made a good investment. If they don't and your opponenet outflanks, then they have used an expensive unit to come in and kill 75 points worth of Lootas. Snikrot himself is 85 points! Tack on the rest of the points for the Kommandos squad as well. It's a win-win for you.

Oh yeah, flame wars. When I saw Balsak, Reckoner, and Mercer here, I knew I couldn't say anything they wouldn't cover so I just bowed out of this thread

Gharron, I'll tell you right now, those three won't steer you wrong. I have a weird gamer fantasy that someday the lot of us could meet up and start a WAAAGH!!! that would consume the better half of Imperial space.

We could have used you anyway Taurinus. If I can say one thing about that spaz Grace, he has an ego comparable to Ghazkull. Maybe that's why he is so hot for him...and Paladins as well we noticed. As for your fantasy, weird? I wouldn't say so. Unlikely? Yeah...only because half of Imperial Space would just be an appetizer

how do I join in this waaagh! I'm still getting the last half of my waaagh ready (bikes buggies flash gits and badrukk with some stompas and I'll have some of the fighta jets as well! XD I'm loving my orks though so much better than my MEQ armies...same old paint scheme same old build same old fluff orks just run in kill everything and leave


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To be honest the armies I'm going to see most are IG wolves GK and angels. (I know that's probably most played armies) and I worry about gk's and wolves the most. Those psychic powers just munch my boys. I'm just trying to make sure I don't look like a full the first time I go to a tourney XD

Don't worry or stress too much, bro. You'll find that Orks are a very resilient race and army to play.....you usually have room for a few "mistakes" here and there, and even if you don't win, you'll have put up a good fight and show for it.

I used to post constantly, but recently my workdays are 12-20 hours....so I hit a couple here and there on my crappy phone....but home sick today so I could look into more posts....though I really should be modeling....lol....guess I'll pull them out in a few. With luck, I'll finish modeling all my Orks and can start the laborious process of painting the rest. I also need to see how many 25mm bases I have unused so I know how many "sprue-magants" I'm gonna make.....cause God knows I don't have enough for my Tervigons, lol.

Brother Taurinus wrote:Don't worry or stress too much, bro. You'll find that Orks are a very resilient race and army to play.....you usually have room for a few "mistakes" here and there, and even if you don't win, you'll have put up a good fight and show for it.

I used to post constantly, but recently my workdays are 12-20 hours....so I hit a couple here and there on my crappy phone....but home sick today so I could look into more posts....though I really should be modeling....lol....guess I'll pull them out in a few. With luck, I'll finish modeling all my Orks and can start the laborious process of painting the rest. I also need to see how many 25mm bases I have unused so I know how many "sprue-magants" I'm gonna make.....cause God knows I don't have enough for my Tervigons, lol.

lol sounds you like need to stop working so much brother! I'm excited man I'm not just another MEQ player anymore! There's only 2-3 people in our whole area that play orks so I'm definitely a minority =) I love them so far and painting them has been AWESOME. I'm painting my meks atm (realizing how much I hate finecast...I can stick the lootas back in. could I do 1 squad of 10? Since I'm kinda short on elites in my list D=

Don't worry or stress too much, bro. You'll find that Orks are a very resilient race and army to play.....you usually have room for a few "mistakes" here and there, and even if you don't win, you'll have put up a good fight and show for it.

I used to post constantly, but recently my workdays are 12-20 hours....so I hit a couple here and there on my crappy phone....but home sick today so I could look into more posts....though I really should be modeling....lol....guess I'll pull them out in a few. With luck, I'll finish modeling all my Orks and can start the laborious process of painting the rest. I also need to see how many 25mm bases I have unused so I know how many "sprue-magants" I'm gonna make.....cause God knows I don't have enough for my Tervigons, lol.

What on earth is causing you to work 12-20 hour work days? Modern day slavery...I get cranky if I have to work more than 8!

There's only 2-3 people in our whole area that play orks so I'm definitely a minority =) I love them so far and painting them has been AWESOME. I'm painting my meks atm (realizing how much I hate finecast...I can stick the lootas back in. could I do 1 squad of 10? Since I'm kinda short on elites in my list D=

Yeah you can do one squad of 10 if you have to. We usually like splitting them up to have more target options and stuff. Mercer posted a link to an article a little while back where the author argued that 9 is the ideal number for Lootas, they can dish out punishment and still take some casualties before running. Unless there's something else you really want to spend the 15 points on, the difference between 9 and 10 Lootas probably isn't a huge deal so go with either one.

Runna wrote:I remember that faq about the Mad Dok now, and thus I remember why I don't run him.

(But one day I will field a horde of Cybork Gretchin, I swear it.)

Also, definately go with the buggies, or the two koptas with buzzsaw, as you have the points.

Fielding Lootas in a squad of 9, I completely agree with that. I want to field two squads of 9 myself, or 8, (model reasons, damn burna box.) Lootas are in all my all comer lists.

I love Ghaz, please don't throw him away, mine is all in pieces from moving, made me sad, the though of someone tossing a good one out on the account of someone who isn't making their point without sounding condecending or being rude by attacking or belittling someones personal character is unneccesarry.

It's not that you didn't make a point Grace, it's more the way you made it, and then hypocritically threw down the argument where players said they had other options and simply didn't agree Ghaz was "neccessary", you could have met them half way, but you did what you accused them of doing and completely threw down any points they tried to make whilst putting yours back up with obvious spite.

Seriously though, don't throw Ghaz

lol my ghazzy is staying where he is XD I like the paint job on him XD
I think it would be cool to put mad dok in the green tide list and cybork everything for giggles. Grae has made all the point he needs to. It's all in his attitude. I'm looking at putting in a bommer. What do you think? They are fraguile but a gun turret none the less. I could do 9 lootas I have 30 I just worry about them getting eatin but something outflanking =/ I guess my next question kind of runs into do you guys think a bommer could make it in the BW bash list I have up? Or would I need to drop some points and do something else with it.

Ok guys, new list time. Tell me whatcha think =D

2 big mek - KFF -170

Nob- painboy, banner pk, pk, normal, pk bp, big choppa -250
Nob- painboy, banner pk, pk, normal, pk bp, big choppa -250

19 boys - Nob PK/BP -155
18 boys - Nob PK/BP -149
18 boiys - Nob PK/BP -149

Bw - Big shoota/rolla/RPJ/plates/grot rigger -135
Bw - Big shoota/rolla/RPJ/plates/klaw -135
Bw - Big shoota/rolla/RPJ/plates -130
Bw - Big shoota/rolla/RPJ/plates/grot rigger -135
Bw - Big shoota/rolla/RPJ/plates/grot rigger -135

Dakkajet -RPJ, TL supa shoota, Fighta ace -135
Kopta TL rokkit, buzzsaw -70
Total is 1998 with the klaw. I didn't really know what else to take on it the list came to 1993 without it. (Unless I added wrong which is a very real possibility...) but yeah =D let me know what I can change and improve