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Post by: Frazzled
Speaking of taxing soda.
School fined $15 large for accidentally leaving on a coke machine during lunch. Says will have to take money from fine arts program. Thanks again nanny state.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/utah-school-fined-15000-for-accidentally-selling-soda-during-lunch/
Utah School Fined $15,000 for Accidentally Selling Soda During Lunch
Posted on May 17, 2012 at 8:17am by Jonathon M. Seidl Print »Email »
Comments (107)A Utah high school is learning the hard way that the government is serious about nudging students away from food it doesn’t want them to consume. Davis High School in the Salt Lake City area is having to fork over a whopping $15,000 in fines to the Feds because it accidentally sold soda through a vending machine during lunch.
Federal law requires the school to turn off its soda machines during the lunch period, which is 47 minutes a day. And Davis High school did turn off the machines in the lunch room. However, the school didn‘t realize that there was another machine in the school bookstore that wasn’t being turned off. And when the food police realized it, the school was hit with a $0.75 fine per student for the duration of the offense.
Now the school is going to have to cut money to fine arts programs to make up the cost.
But here’s where things really get nutty, so to speak. Davis High School Principal Dee Burton said that the law is disingenuous. For example, while students can’t buy soda, they can buy sugar-loaded sports drinks and even Snickers bars because they contain, you guessed it, nuts. In addition, students can buy soda earlier in the day before the machines get turned off and drink it during lunch.
And simple economics is at play, too. The ban isn’t forcing students to stop drinking or eating the sugar-laced food and drink. It’s just driving them to places where they can get it.
“The misconception is if we don’t let kids buy candy and pop, we drive them to the cafeteria, it doesn’t drive them to the cafeteria it drives them off campus,” Burton told KUTV.
One commenter on the KUTV website picked up on that.
“The principal is right, the kids will leave campus. What are you going to do? Close Walmart and Quick Trip for 47 minutes every day?” the commenter wrote.
Don’t give them any ideas.
.
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Post by: Joey
I'm all for reducing funding to arts programs.
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Post by: Melissia
Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
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Post by: biccat
Joey wrote:I'm all for reducing funding to arts programs.
Ditto.
Melissia wrote:they should take money from their sports programs
That too.
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Post by: dogma
The ban isn’t forcing students to stop drinking or eating the sugar-laced food and drink. It’s just driving them to places where they can get it.
Where have I heard this argument before?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Perhaps they could take the money from the contingency fund they maintain to cover cases when their legal liability insurance is inadequate.
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Post by: Hordini
Joey wrote:I'm all for reducing funding to arts programs.
Dare I ask, but why?
I agree with Melissia, they should be cutting sports before they cut any academic programs (even though I know that would probably never happen), but the fact that they have to pay such a ridiculous fine at all is horrendous. It's only going to hurt the students, and it's not helping anything.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Sports are just as important as arts, sciences, and any other type of education for children.
Maybe the school should have invested $5 in a timer switch for their vending machine.
Are schools not supposed to obey the law and set a good example?
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Post by: dogma
I don't know, it depends on community desires and realistic expectations.
Why fund a shop class, for example, in Menlo Park?
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Post by: Frazzled
I take it you're ok with the fine then?
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Post by: dogma
Frazzled wrote:I take it you're ok with the fine then?
Don't know, still looking for the actual law.
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Post by: Frazzled
I doubt its a law, more of a regulation that the state has to comply with to get federal matching funds for something.
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Post by: juraigamer
There's a law for this?
I guess I can always count on OT for showing our representatives are crazy.
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Post by: dogma
Frazzled wrote:I doubt its a law, more of a regulation that the state has to comply with to get federal matching funds for something.
My guess as well.
This is a better write up, and makes it look even worse.
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Post by: d-usa
dogma wrote:The ban isn’t forcing students to stop drinking or eating the sugar-laced food and drink. It’s just driving them to places where they can get it.
Where have I heard this argument before?
Of course the same can be said for banning sex education. It isn't forcing student to stop learning about sex, it is just driving them to places where they can get the information:  Edit: Decided to switch it to something that maybe a bit more family friendly, or at least fit the PG-13 mindset of DakkaDakka. Original was a non-nude cover of Penthouse, but I hope this still gets the idea across.
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Post by: dogma
Porn: where all women like anal.
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Post by: streamdragon
Absolute waste of resources. I agree there's a problem with getting kids interested in maintaining a healthy lifestyle, but fining their school (which is probably underfunded already) is not the answer in the slightest.
I also disagree with their taking funds from the fine arts classes though, in lieu of optional sports programs.
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Post by: Hordini
Kilkrazy wrote:Sports are just as important as arts, sciences, and any other type of education for children.
Maybe the school should have invested $5 in a timer switch for their vending machine.
Are schools not supposed to obey the law and set a good example?
I agree that sports are an important part of education, and I'm certainly not suggesting it be cut entirely. The problem is, sports programs often get a large portion of school funds (and they also bring in a lot of money as well, which is a good thing), but the arts are often underfunded in comparison. My point is, cutting $15,000 from a school's arts program would likely have a much more drastic effect on the arts program overall than a similar fine would on a school's sports program. I'm not talking about things like gym class either when I refer to sports, but more the extracurricular activities.
Also, schools are supposed to obey the law and set a good example. But what they should not ever be doing is punishing students and harming their educational opportunities because the administration F'd up.
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Post by: d-usa
dogma wrote:Frazzled wrote:I doubt its a law, more of a regulation that the state has to comply with to get federal matching funds for something.
My guess as well. This is a better write up, and makes it look even worse.
That article makes it seem like the are not only cutting funding to the arts program to pay for this fine, they didn't have much a budget to pay for the arts program to begin with. The money raised by the machine was used to pay for the arts. And while I agree the law is stupid, it's the law and should be followed. Where are the Texas Rangers!
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Post by: Hordini
d-usa wrote:dogma wrote:Frazzled wrote:I doubt its a law, more of a regulation that the state has to comply with to get federal matching funds for something.
My guess as well.
This is a better write up, and makes it look even worse.
That article makes it seem like the are not only cutting funding to the arts program to pay for this fine, they didn't have much a budget to pay for the arts program to begin with. The money raised by the machine was used to pay for the arts.
Yeah, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. A fine like that to an arts program could potentially eliminate an arts program. I highly doubt a fine like that would eliminate a sports program, and the community backlash would be much stronger if it did.
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Post by: d-usa
Hordini wrote:d-usa wrote:dogma wrote:Frazzled wrote:I doubt its a law, more of a regulation that the state has to comply with to get federal matching funds for something.
My guess as well.
This is a better write up, and makes it look even worse.
That article makes it seem like the are not only cutting funding to the arts program to pay for this fine, they didn't have much a budget to pay for the arts program to begin with. The money raised by the machine was used to pay for the arts.
Yeah, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. A fine like that to an arts program could potentially eliminate an arts program. I highly doubt a fine like that would eliminate a sports program, and the community backlash would be much stronger if it did.
Now that I had time to think more clearly, I realize that this entire scenario is the fault of Liberals. I have to admit, it was a very cunning idea that required lots of planning, but they were able to pull it off.
Of course you start with liberals in congress writing these stupid laws, that is always the first step. But what good is a law if you cannot get people to break it, that is where the money comes from. So Stage 2 of the plan was put into effect.
We all know liberals are hipsters and artists. So you get your local chapter of "High School Students for Obama"" to demand crayons and watercolors, maybe even demand to stage a play written by some communist playwright from Europe, because doing something pretty will help self esteem or something like that.
The local school board, already burdened to pay for sex education and classes like "why the government is awesome" in 3 different languages, now has to come up with a way to pay for these hipster classes unless they want to face a federal lawsuit charging them with damaging the future of the next USA hating artist to emerge in the post-conceptual art scene.
"Fine, we give up" the local school council surrendered, " but we are already paying for every other federally mandated class. The only way we can pay for 'Crayons for Hipsters' is to put in a soda machine to raise the money for supplies"
And so the trap was set, the plan complete, and liberals win again!
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Post by: streamdragon
d-usa wrote:Now that I had time to think more clearly, I realize that this entire scenario is the fault of Liberals. I have to admit, it was a very cunning idea that required lots of planning, but they were able to pull it off.
Of course you start with liberals in congress writing these stupid laws, that is always the first step. But what good is a law if you cannot get people to break it, that is where the money comes from. So Stage 2 of the plan was put into effect.
We all know liberals are hipsters and artists. So you get your local chapter of "High School Students for Obama"" to demand crayons and watercolors, maybe even demand to stage a play written by some communist playwright from Europe, because doing something pretty will help self esteem or something like that.
The local school board, already burdened to pay for sex education and classes like "why the government is awesome" in 3 different languages, now has to come up with a way to pay for these hipster classes unless they want to face a federal lawsuit charging them with damaging the future of the next USA hating artist to emerge in the post-conceptual art scene.
"Fine, we give up" the local school council surrendered, " but we are already paying for every other federally mandated class. The only way we can pay for 'Crayons for Hipsters' is to put in a soda machine to raise the money for supplies"
And so the trap was set, the plan complete, and liberals win again!
*clap*
*clap*
*clap*
Amazing. Just amazing. 
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Post by: Hordini
d-usa wrote:Hordini wrote:d-usa wrote:dogma wrote:Frazzled wrote:I doubt its a law, more of a regulation that the state has to comply with to get federal matching funds for something.
My guess as well.
This is a better write up, and makes it look even worse.
That article makes it seem like the are not only cutting funding to the arts program to pay for this fine, they didn't have much a budget to pay for the arts program to begin with. The money raised by the machine was used to pay for the arts.
Yeah, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. A fine like that to an arts program could potentially eliminate an arts program. I highly doubt a fine like that would eliminate a sports program, and the community backlash would be much stronger if it did.
Now that I had time to think more clearly, I realize that this entire scenario is the fault of Liberals. I have to admit, it was a very cunning idea that required lots of planning, but they were able to pull it off.
Of course you start with liberals in congress writing these stupid laws, that is always the first step. But what good is a law if you cannot get people to break it, that is where the money comes from. So Stage 2 of the plan was put into effect.
We all know liberals are hipsters and artists. So you get your local chapter of "High School Students for Obama"" to demand crayons and watercolors, maybe even demand to stage a play written by some communist playwright from Europe, because doing something pretty will help self esteem or something like that.
The local school board, already burdened to pay for sex education and classes like "why the government is awesome" in 3 different languages, now has to come up with a way to pay for these hipster classes unless they want to face a federal lawsuit charging them with damaging the future of the next USA hating artist to emerge in the post-conceptual art scene.
"Fine, we give up" the local school council surrendered, " but we are already paying for every other federally mandated class. The only way we can pay for 'Crayons for Hipsters' is to put in a soda machine to raise the money for supplies"
And so the trap was set, the plan complete, and liberals win again!
That's a fascinating theory, but I tend to prefer the policy of not attributing to malice what can be explained by incompetence. 
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Post by: dogma
Hordini wrote:
Yeah, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. A fine like that to an arts program could potentially eliminate an arts program. I highly doubt a fine like that would eliminate a sports program, and the community backlash would be much stronger if it did.
Nonsense, we all know that real education suffers because of art programs.
You're such a filthy liberal.
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Post by: Chowderhead
Why don't they (Gov't) just take away the Soda Machine and give them a 500 dollar slap on the wrist?
Seriously. 15 grand for a soda machine is way too much.
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Post by: Frazzled
Chowderhead wrote:Why don't they (Gov't) just take away the Soda Machine and give them a 500 dollar slap on the wrist?
Seriously. 15 grand for a soda machine is way too much.
Apply facts, logic, and common sense has no place in government.
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Post by: Hordini
dogma wrote:Hordini wrote:
Yeah, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. A fine like that to an arts program could potentially eliminate an arts program. I highly doubt a fine like that would eliminate a sports program, and the community backlash would be much stronger if it did.
Nonsense, we all know that real education suffers because of art programs.
You're such a filthy liberal.
Haha...I know, right? It's all just a secret plan to replace mathematics and science with Marxist art classes where students paint portraits of Barack Obama and write epic poetry about his heroic deeds. 
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Post by: d-usa
Somebody has to paint the murals of our dear leader.
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Post by: ph34r
My question is why is their budget contingent on a soda machine that they are not supposed to use? Or do students only buy soda during lunch while otherwise they would buy it outside lunch time? At a fine of 75 cents per use they would surely still be making profit.
I see no reason in any case for them to cut the arts. Spending on sports can get ridiculous fast. 15 grand is huge to an arts program.
I saw a lot of people in college that couldn't do anything creative to save their life. Those people are going to have a damn hard time finding a job when they have to think outside the box.
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Post by: LoneLictor
d-usa wrote:Somebody has to paint the murals of our dear leader.
Amen brother. In between pressuring catholic girls into having abortions, worshiping Satan, using welfare money to buy another mansion, banning commerce and murdering the last productive members of society I've been working on painting my own version of this.
UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN! OBAMUNISM WORKS! HEIL DEAR LEADER OBAMA!
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Post by: d-usa
LoneLictor wrote:d-usa wrote:Somebody has to paint the murals of our dear leader.
Amen brother. In between pressuring catholic girls into having abortions, worshiping Satan, using welfare money to buy another mansion, banning commerce and murdering the last productive members of society I've been working on painting my own version of this.
UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN! OBAMUNISM WORKS! HEIL DEAR LEADER OBAMA!
It's a good start, but clearly we need to think big enough to paint on the side of the supreme court!
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Post by: Hordini
ph34r wrote:My question is why is their budget contingent on a soda machine that they are not supposed to use? Or do students only buy soda during lunch while otherwise they would buy it outside lunch time? At a fine of 75 cents per use they would surely still be making profit.
I see no reason in any case for them to cut the arts. Spending on sports can get ridiculous fast. 15 grand is huge to an arts program.
I saw a lot of people in college that couldn't do anything creative to save their life. Those people are going to have a damn hard time finding a job when they have to think outside the box.
Yeah, exactly. And there are plenty of people in creative fields that would never have an opportunity to get a job like that if they hadn't gotten started in school arts programs.
LoneLictor wrote:d-usa wrote:Somebody has to paint the murals of our dear leader.
Amen brother. In between pressuring catholic girls into having abortions, worshiping Satan, using welfare money to buy another mansion, banning commerce and murdering the last productive members of society I've been working on painting my own version of this.
UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN! OBAMUNISM WORKS! HEIL DEAR LEADER OBAMA!
I think you forgot to mention smoking crack as part of "scientific research" funded with the taxpayers' money.
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Post by: LoneLictor
Hordini wrote:LoneLictor wrote:d-usa wrote:Somebody has to paint the murals of our dear leader.
Amen brother. In between pressuring catholic girls into having abortions, worshiping Satan, using welfare money to buy another mansion, banning commerce and murdering the last productive members of society I've been working on painting my own version of this.
UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN! OBAMUNISM WORKS! HEIL DEAR LEADER OBAMA!
I think you forgot to mention smoking crack as part of "scientific research" funded with the taxpayers' money.
I'm part of soooooo many different taxpayer funded studies that I don't even remember most of 'em anymore. In one of them all I do is stare at a Horse's butt and write what I think and then they pay $ 40k I week. Sometimes I don't show up, but they still pay me.
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Post by: d-usa
I got paid a decent chunk of money from the national endowment of the arts to go trespass on private property and take picture.
This country is great.
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Post by: LoneLictor
d-usa wrote:I got paid a decent chunk of money from the national endowment of the arts to go trespass on private property and take picture.
This country is great.
One time Obama handed me a bag full of coke in a back alley. In exchange I burnt down a church.
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Post by: d-usa
LoneLictor wrote:d-usa wrote:I got paid a decent chunk of money from the national endowment of the arts to go trespass on private property and take picture.
This country is great.
One time Obama handed me a bag full of coke in a back alley. In exchange I burnt down a church.
Pics or it didn't happen 
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Post by: timetowaste85
As if schools weren't having their budgets slashed enough already to hurt student educations...what brain-dead moron thought fining a school $15,000 was a good idea over having a soda machine turned on? I move for a vote of no confidence in this official. May he be castrated as painfully as possible.
On a side note, Frazzled, can I borrow your dogs' teeth?
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Post by: d-usa
What brain-dead moron school official doesn't know where their own sod machines are?
The school officials admitted that they knew about the rule, and that they were following the rule with the soda machine near the cafeteria. Their excuse for breaking the federal regulations basically boils down to this:
"We have a soda machine in the library? What the feth?"
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Post by: Amaya
Possibly the only way to actually get students into the library.
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Post by: deathholydeath
While sodas are out, Gatorade is allowed.
“You can sell Snickers and Milkyway bars because they have nuts and they're nutritious. You can't sell licorice, but you can sell ice-cream,” Burton said.
The idea of the federal law is to cut down on our nations obesity epidemic and force kids to eat real food during lunch.
I am just dumbstruck by this. Snickers and Milkyways are healthy now? What?
Wat? 
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Post by: d-usa
Well, they are more nutritious than sugarwater.
But keep in mind that the rules come from the same people that gave us the "Pizza is a vegetable" rule.
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Post by: deathholydeath
d-usa wrote:Well, they are more nutritious than sugarwater.
But keep in mind that the rules come from the same people that gave us the "Pizza is a vegetable" rule.
Republicans?
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Post by: SagesStone
Maybe, but I thought they gave us the proof that evolution doesn't exist with peanut butter instead.
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Post by: AustonT
Melissia wrote:Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
ROFL. Gov't enforces ridiculous food laws to fight obesity and you suggested cutting sports programs? I'm sure you don't see the, it's not irony...what's the word I'm looking for? Doesn't matter. While they are at it they should cut PE back from it's alread abysmal one year requirement to the same elective status as say the fine arts. That way they can eat healthy, not excersize, and be fantastically fat flautists. I love it! Automatically Appended Next Post: Amaya wrote:Possibly the only way to actually get students into the library.
Bookstore actually.
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Post by: deathholydeath
AustonT wrote:Melissia wrote:Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
ROFL. Gov't enforces ridiculous food laws to fight obesity and you suggested cutting sports programs? I'm sure you don't see the, it's not irony...what's the word I'm looking for? Doesn't matter. While they are at it they should cut PE back from it's alread abysmal one year requirement to the same elective status as say the fine arts. That way they can eat healthy, not excersize, and be fantastically fat flautists. I love it!
I would rather have fat kids with a good education and an appreciation of the arts than skinny muscular kids with a piss poor education and as much appreciation for the humanities as a dog.
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Post by: Great White
Who cares if the soda machine was on. They kids still would have gotten soda, they just would of had to wait 30 minutes.
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Post by: rubiksnoob
Pffft. Cut the sports.
Your average well-to-do suburban high school has tens of thousands of dollars budgeted towards sports, sometime hundreds of thousands. At the same schools you have art teachers who have to take up collections from the students or pay out of their own pockets for supplies for class. It's saddening. I can't believe some arseholes value the ability to to chuck an inflated leather egg over the ability to create and imagine.
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Post by: deathholydeath
Great White wrote:Who cares if the soda machine was on. They kids still would have gotten soda, they just would of had to wait 30 minutes.
Or gone to the corner store.
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Post by: Bromsy
Yeah, I think the pizza as a vegetable thing was a bi-partisan effort that came together out of a shared sense of greed.
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Post by: AustonT
deathholydeath wrote:AustonT wrote:Melissia wrote:Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
ROFL. Gov't enforces ridiculous food laws to fight obesity and you suggested cutting sports programs? I'm sure you don't see the, it's not irony...what's the word I'm looking for? Doesn't matter. While they are at it they should cut PE back from it's alread abysmal one year requirement to the same elective status as say the fine arts. That way they can eat healthy, not excersize, and be fantastically fat flautists. I love it!
I would rather have fat kids with a good education and an appreciation of the arts than skinny muscular kids with a piss poor education and as much appreciation for the humanities as a dog.
You're right feth sports.
I'd rather be fit than have an appreciation for the humanities; luckily I don't have to make that choice. There are plenty of kids who are both fat and stupid; and as useless as a fat, stupid dog.
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Post by: Great White
I also don't think the governments problem with the vending machines was about health. If it was, there would be no vending machines in any school. It's about something else, I just can't put my finger on it. And I agree with the cutting of the sports program and not the fine arts. Sports in schools are a luxury. You don't need a sports team to make a school. Sure it's cool, but it should always come second. Schools are made for learning, not sports. Rant over.
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Post by: ph34r
Sports programs don't help kids stay fit very well for the dollar, as the most expensive parts benefit only a few dozen children (the team). PE can be maintained easily while still making cuts to sports fields, lights, etc.
In either case the fact that pizza is considered a vegetable is ridiculous and just the government paying into the interests of corporations who want to push their food, at the cost of our youths getting fat and having horrible (and expensive) health problems later down the line. Something really needs to be done about children+junk food.
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Post by: sebster
Maybe instead of having fines for making soda machines accessible at certain times of the day, you should just look at not having soda machines in schools at all?
Frazzled wrote:Davis High School Principal Dee Burton said that the law is disingenuous. For example, while students can’t buy soda, they can buy sugar-loaded sports drinks and even Snickers bars because they contain, you guessed it, nuts. In addition, students can buy soda earlier in the day before the machines get turned off and drink it during lunch.
Davis High School Principal Dee Burton doesn't know what disingenuous means. Lots of people don't, so this wouldn't be remarkable, except she's the principal of a high school, and if people like that can't use words correctly, what hope is there that kids will learn what words actually mean?
For the record, the law could be described as "inconsistent", or perhaps "poorly conceived", but "disingenuous" would require some element of intentional deceit on behalf of the lawmakers, that they included the Snickers nuts exception intentionally. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:I take it you're ok with the fine then?
The fine is stupid. But even stupider is having soda machines in schools at all. Automatically Appended Next Post: Chowderhead wrote:Why don't they (Gov't) just take away the Soda Machine and give them a 500 dollar slap on the wrist?
Seriously. 15 grand for a soda machine is way too much.
Soft drink companies will sponsor the schools for way more than that to get them to put those machines in the schools.
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Post by: SagesStone
Which then circles to funding likely leading to it as they might actually need that extra money to keep some things going.
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Post by: deathholydeath
AustonT wrote:deathholydeath wrote:AustonT wrote:Melissia wrote:Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
ROFL. Gov't enforces ridiculous food laws to fight obesity and you suggested cutting sports programs? I'm sure you don't see the, it's not irony...what's the word I'm looking for? Doesn't matter. While they are at it they should cut PE back from it's alread abysmal one year requirement to the same elective status as say the fine arts. That way they can eat healthy, not excersize, and be fantastically fat flautists. I love it!
I would rather have fat kids with a good education and an appreciation of the arts than skinny muscular kids with a piss poor education and as much appreciation for the humanities as a dog.
You're right feth sports.
I'd rather be fit than have an appreciation for the humanities; luckily I don't have to make that choice. There are plenty of kids who are both fat and stupid; and as useless as a fat, stupid dog.
Sports programs only benefit a small percentage of a school's population-- the team. If we're talking about keeping high school students fit... well, in my opinion, it's not really sports programs or PE that makes the difference--it's the drive of the student.
I would cut funding for sports simply because all you really need for a sports program is an empty lot and a spherical object to throw or kick. At least that was my experience growing up in Louisiana. Arts programs tend to actually need all the expensive gak on their shopping list. Any wargamer knows that paints, brushes, and the like are expensive supplies.
However, the value of these individual programs is relative. YMMV
Anyway, with regard to the pic... no amount of sports is going to help those kids-- they're just fethed. They probably metabolize at a rate somewhere around the MPH of frozen molasses.
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Post by: SagesStone
There's also making sculptures out of materials you can find, doesn't work for inner city schools but more rural ones could get away with sticks and such. The main problem then becomes the glue since it shouldn't be assumed they'd be able to get it to hold by friction alone.
More or less why do they always cut from a single area rather than split it amongst all the areas that can afford it to soften the blow. Or like KK mentioned much earlier, have a fund for paying off cases like this.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
When you look at the overall situation it has to be asked why schools need to have vending machines anyway.
We never did when I was at school, and my daughter's school doesn't have them now.
If there were no vending machines there would be no need to have a law to control their use.
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Post by: Hordini
Kilkrazy wrote:When you look at the overall situation it has to be asked why schools need to have vending machines anyway.
We never did when I was at school, and my daughter's school doesn't have them now.
If there were no vending machines there would be no need to have a law to control their use.
I agree that schools don't need vending machines at all, but many schools have them in order to raise money for different things. At my school they kept a "Coca-Cola Fund" from soda sales to do field trips and things with, which is probably one reason schools keep them. In this case it seems to have backfired, which is stupid. If they really want to promote being healthy, they shouldn't have soda on campus at all, and certainly not diet soda either.
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Post by: SagesStone
I don't doubt there are likely vending machines with the option of having healthy drinks in them as well as the sodas. Achieves the same thing with less of a fuss about it. Should be exempt from the fine if it has a certain ratio of healthy to unhealthy.
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Post by: Hordini
n0t_u wrote:I don't doubt there are likely vending machines with the option of having healthy drinks in them as well as the sodas. Achieves the same thing with less of a fuss about it. Should be exempt from the fine if it has a certain ratio of healthy to unhealthy.
Vending machines with healthy drinks would be totally fine, if they just got rid of the soda completely.
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Post by: sebster
Kilkrazy wrote:When you look at the overall situation it has to be asked why schools need to have vending machines anyway.
We never did when I was at school, and my daughter's school doesn't have them now.
If there were no vending machines there would be no need to have a law to control their use.
Basically because schools are always looking for more money. That's just the nature of schools, there's always another program that could deliver more if it had a bit more money.
At the same time, parents are resentful and resistant to paying out more to schools. That's just the nature of people, they don't like being told to pay more fees, especially not for something they've been conditioned to think of as being very cheap.
Then you've got kids, who thanks to part time jobs and generous allowances have a fair whack of free cash. And of course, being kids, they've also got sweet tooths.
And lastly, you've got soft drink companies, who by their very nature look to increase the sale of soft drinks. They see a great market in schools, and being good at their jobs they know how to sell it to the schools (either direct payment to the school to put the vending machine in there, or a profit sharing arrangement).
The end result of all that is vending machines in schools, and fatter kids as a result.
And when people notice their kids are getting fat, in part due to having access to sugary drinks in their schools, they get their government representatives to pass legislation to stop it. But the schools and the soft drink companies have powerful vested interests in having those soft drink machines in schools, and so an outright ban becomes too hard. Instead you get some nonsense about vending machines being turned off for lunch, and even more nonsense when a school is fined a large amount of money for an administrative oversight.
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Post by: Mr Hyena
All I remember from school meals were 'healthy meals' that tasted like paper and 'flavoured water', water or milk as the only options for a drink. I never ate in the cafeteria because of this.
More government intervention is a bad thing. People will leave the school grounds to get a decent meal if they have to.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
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Post by: Hordini
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
Yeah, when I was in school we weren't allowed to leave campus except for a few very specific reasons, and as far as I know that's still the same policy for all of the schools in my home county. Leaving campus without permission (which was rarely given) was punished pretty severely.
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Post by: Chowderhead
My school has a closed campus as well.
Shame they can't enforce the damned policy well, seeing as how the enforcer is usually down at the lower school gate, smoking with the punks. 
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Post by: Mr Hyena
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
In those cases I'd simply just skip lunch. I will not be told what to eat.
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Post by: Hordini
Mr Hyena wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
In those cases I'd simply just skip lunch. I will not be told what to eat.
Why wouldn't you just pack a lunch?
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Post by: Frazzled
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
Agreed actually.
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Post by: Chowderhead
Mr Hyena wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
In those cases I'd simply just skip lunch. I will not be told what to eat.
Bring it from home, buy from the cafeteria, etc, etc.
If you want some chip shop food, buy it and bring it in the next day.
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Post by: biccat
Back in my day if you wanted to drink soda during lunch you brought your own can.
And nobody gave you gak about it.
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Post by: Mr Hyena
Hordini wrote:Mr Hyena wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
In those cases I'd simply just skip lunch. I will not be told what to eat.
Why wouldn't you just pack a lunch?
Because if they are going to stop you from leaving campus grounds just to go to get something to eat, they'll probably dictate what is 'allowed' for lunch in school grounds.
Besides, Cafeteria food always sucks.
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Post by: Hordini
biccat wrote:Back in my day if you wanted to drink soda during lunch you brought your own can.
And nobody gave you gak about it.
Yeah, that's another reason why this whole thing is ridiculous. If you pack your lunch, you can bring whatever you want, junk food or not.
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Post by: Frazzled
biccat wrote:Back in my day if you wanted to drink soda during lunch you brought your own can.
And nobody gave you gak about it.
Back in my day we just ate mastadon and were glad we had it!
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Post by: Hordini
Mr Hyena wrote:Hordini wrote:Mr Hyena wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
In those cases I'd simply just skip lunch. I will not be told what to eat.
Why wouldn't you just pack a lunch?
Because if they are going to stop you from leaving campus grounds just to go to get something to eat, they'll probably dictate what is 'allowed' for lunch in school grounds.
Besides, Cafeteria food always sucks.
No, they won't. At the high school I went to and most if not all of the schools I've subbed in, none of them allowed students to leave for lunch and students were allowed to bring whatever they wanted to if they packed their own lunch.
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Post by: d-usa
Why don't you pack lunch?
Because cafeteria food sucks!
Please do not circumvent our word filter. Thanks Manchu did I just read?
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Post by: Chowderhead
d-usa wrote:Why don't you pack lunch?
Because cafeteria food sucks!
Please do not circumvent our word filter. Thanks Manchu did I just read?
Logic. You read, flawless, well thought out logic that is irrefutable. Wait a sec...
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Mr Hyena wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
In those cases I'd simply just skip lunch. I will not be told what to eat.
That's fine, too.
I used to refuse food I did not like, and went hungry.
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Post by: d-usa
Kilkrazy wrote:Mr Hyena wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:When I was at school we simply weren't allowed out of bounds during the day, and pupils were punished when teachers found them at the local chip shop/pub, etc.
Good old fashioned values are still the best.
In those cases I'd simply just skip lunch. I will not be told what to eat.
That's fine, too.
I used to refuse food I did not like, and went hungry.
It's a tactic quite often used by 6 year old children, if I remember my nieces and nephews right.
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Post by: streamdragon
I remember in high school the cafeteria used to put all the Tastycake brand stuff on sale for $0.25 a pack when it was coming up on its expiration date. So I'd wait, eating my french fries, and pounce on the sale like a pack of wolves on a three legged doe. I ate well for a few days after that...
Of course, that was back when my metabolism supported that and I was a scrawny almost sickly high school kid. Then I went to college...
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Post by: Mr Hyena
d-usa wrote:Why don't you pack lunch?
Because cafeteria food sucks!
Please do not circumvent our word filter. Thanks Manchu did I just read?
Because of this mentality: http://swns.com/mum-left-outraged-after-school-bans-penguin-chocolate-bars-081104.html A packed lunch is a fine alternative as long as the school doesn't interfere.
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Post by: Great White
In the two highschools I went too the machines were different. At my one school the machines were there for money reasons like Hordini said. Pepsi and Coke would offer us things and whoever offered better got there soda sold a school. But they were closed at lunch because the soda wasn't exactly healthy. At my current school they have vending machines open at all times, but they only sell natural sodas that are healthier.
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Post by: DIDM
take the stupid fething machine OUT of the school
no reason we need our kids drinking soda all day long
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Post by: Melissia
AustonT wrote:Melissia wrote:Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
ROFL. Gov't enforces ridiculous food laws to fight obesity and you suggested cutting sports programs?
Yes. Sports programs are used for the intellectually lazy to allow them to ignore scholastic achievements.
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Post by: d-usa
Melissia wrote:AustonT wrote:Melissia wrote:Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
ROFL. Gov't enforces ridiculous food laws to fight obesity and you suggested cutting sports programs?
Yes. Sports programs are used for the intellectually lazy to allow them to ignore scholastic achievements.
I wouldn't cut PE programs.
But extracurricular sports are fair game. Of course the day that Texas takes a red pen to Football will be a cold day in hell.
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Post by: AustonT
Melissia wrote:AustonT wrote:Melissia wrote:Screw that, they should take money from their sports programs, and focus on teaching the kids instead.
ROFL. Gov't enforces ridiculous food laws to fight obesity and you suggested cutting sports programs?
Yes. Sports programs are used for the intellectually lazy to allow them to ignore scholastic achievements.
Fine arts programs are used by the physically lazy to ignore their growing obesity.
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Post by: Melissia
AustonT wrote:Fine arts programs are used by the physically lazy to ignore their growing obesity.
School is there to encourage scholastic achievement. I have some problems with fine arts programs as well, but it has nothing to do with obesity. Attempting to solve obesity by cutting funding for scholastic programs is a bad idea and runs counter to the very purpose of schooling.
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Post by: d-usa
Is the anti-let-government-tell-us-how-to-live-our-lives advocating government control of how we eat and exercise?
Of course if after school sports program really exist to get rid of obesity, then everybody would make the team and get to play. It doesn't matter who wins as long as everybody gets to exercise!
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Post by: Great White
The only reason it was from the fine arts was that sports make money. The majority of the money for the school probably comes from sports.
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Post by: AustonT
Melissia wrote:AustonT wrote:Fine arts programs are used by the physically lazy to ignore their growing obesity.
School is there to encourage scholastic achievement. I have some problems with fine arts programs as well, but it has nothing to do with obesity. Attempting to solve obesity by cutting funding for scholastic programs is a bad idea and runs counter to the very purpose of schooling.
I simply made and equally ridiculous sweeping statement using yours as a frame work. It was kinder and more illustrative than just saying bull gak.
I agree school is there to provide scholastic achievement; the fine arts are not essential to that achievement and are not part of the core curriculum as such. Between the two only one actively takes scheduled time away from scholastic endevours. That would be the arts, as I do not know of a public school that has a sports program that takes place during school hours, and if such a place exists it is the exception rather than the rule. Sports take roughly 1.5% of the average school's budget, they can rise higher but sports in public schools are funded by pay to play, athletic fees, concessions profits, and fundraisers. Which is basically the boosters. So while you are on your crusade against sports ask yourself if arts programs that are arguably as expendable could survive in the same climate. The only thing cutting sports funding in public schools does is reduce the opportunity for low income students to participate.
Now,
I have to stop my crusade agaisnt the fine arts on Dakka. While you sit there and try to think up another bilious comment about sports I'm going to give my full attention to the symphony.
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Post by: sebster
Mr Hyena wrote:All I remember from school meals were 'healthy meals' that tasted like paper and 'flavoured water', water or milk as the only options for a drink. I never ate in the cafeteria because of this.
More government intervention is a bad thing. People will leave the school grounds to get a decent meal if they have to.
I can tell you our highschool tuckshop had lousy healthy options, and decent tasting junk food options. Then in my last year at the school the new principal increased the budget for the tuckshop, putting in vastly improved facilities, and bringing in a properly trained chef to oversee everything. As a result we got vastly improved food, tastier and healthier.
It's purely an issue of funding. Discarding it as 'government intervention' is just an excuse not to think about the issue, because if you have a cook with decent ingredients and decent facilities, then they'll make decent food, whether the ingredients and facilities are provided by a government employer or a private one. Automatically Appended Next Post: AustonT wrote:Fine arts programs are used by the physically lazy to ignore their growing obesity.
Having just recently left a job at a university where one of the faculties I looked after was the fine arts program, I can tell you there is almost no fat people in arts, let alone obese people. In fact, there's hardly any average weight people either. There'll all incredibly skinny, as they sit about smoking their clove cigarettes, wearing stupid outfits that they secretly hope will make the rest of us realise how artistic they are.
I mean, I seriously hate those people, but they aren't fat.
On the other hand, I went and watched my football team, the West Coast Eagles, beat St Kilda on the weekend. At least half the people in the stands were obese.
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Post by: Melissia
Well since ninety nine percent of those who want to participate in sports can't at any meaningful level, that's hardly surprising.
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Post by: Kanluwen
DIDM wrote:take the stupid fething machine OUT of the school
no reason we need our kids drinking soda all day long
Er yeah...
In many of these instances(high schools, elementary and middle schools), the machines are before and after school hours. They're not actually selling during school hours.
The placement of these machines, however, is done in such a way that people can access them during afterschool events like sports games, etc. It's also done in such a way that students can get some caffeine before school to wake themselves up if they feel that it is "needed".
I know I didn't ever drink coffee in high school (I still really don't drink coffee either), and sometimes needed that little pick-up before an ethics class first thing in the bloody morning.
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Post by: sebster
Melissia wrote:Well since ninety nine percent of those who want to participate in sports can't at any meaningful level, that's hardly surprising.
What? If you want to participate in sport, you ask your friends if they want to play. If there really is a lot of people who want to participate in sport, then enough will say yes and you can all have a game after school by yourselves. That's all you need to play and keep fit.
I agree that way too much money gets spent on competitive, inter-school sport, that could be spent on other things, but lets not pretend it is stopping anyone else from having fun and getting fit on their own.
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Post by: rockerbikie
What is the problem with a drink machine? This is becoming a Nanny state.
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Post by: Frazzled
rockerbikie wrote:What is the problem with a drink machine? This is becoming a Nanny state.
Your logic is irrefutable. Fortunately we're talking government rules and bureaucracies here. You'll find none of that here!
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