Dark Eldar and Daemon Hunters came out in 3rd edition, Black Templars in 4th, and nothing new came out in 5th. With the coming of 6th edition it is the best time for GW to create a codex for another race. Assuming they made a codex for a new race, what species or chapter or whatever would you want them to make a codex for, and who would you honestly expect them to add in as a new race?

Personally I would like to see a small race join the fray, Tau are rather nice, they have a relatively small effect on the whole galaxy, but it is interesting to see the struggles of a small growing empire instead of a large dying empire or simply a rampaging horde. Something like the Uluméathic League or Thyrrus would be cool. As for what I would expect, either another species of marines (probably Deathwatch codex with little focus on the rest of the Ordo Xenos) or maybe an Admech codex.

In order of preference...

Ad Mech
Exodites
Demiurg/Squats

Didn't Daemons come out in 5th?

I want to see a race of fish people.

We're lacking in marine codices. We need at least two more space marine codices, currently there are far to many xenos and non MEQ armies available.

None, update what already exists, FFS!

The Deathwatch don't need a codex, you can already make a solid Deathwatch list with Sternguard. They use almost the exact same rules. I'd be down for Ad Mech or a return of Lost and the Damned or Genestealer Cults.

dæl wrote:In order of preference...

Ad Mech
Exodites
Demiurg/Squats

Didn't Daemons come out in 5th?

Did they? I never really looked. If so I would assume they would continue tradition and make at least one new codex this edition. Also most marine codexes sans BTs and Grey Knights came out in 2nd ed. or were split off from 2nd ed. codexes.

Edit: Daemons are 4th ed.

Daemons were just before the release of 5th. They even had a few rules that didn't make sense before the edition change.

Rather than a single, stand-alone codex, I'd like to see a 'Codex: Xenos' ... Something akin to the Eye of Terror or Armageddon codexes, with a bunch of mini-lists for various different alien races. They don't have to be particularly comprehensive... just a small fluff blurb describing each race and its goals, and a list with half a dozen units ala the original Necron release.

Allows a whole bunch of variety into the game for campaigns and scenario games and, and would give GW the chance to see what will float out there in gaming land before committing to a full release, as they did with Necrons.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Daemons were just before the release of 5th. They even had a few rules that didn't make sense before the edition change.

Whatever, just looked on Lexicanum to see. Also, I never said I wanted a Deathwatch Codex, simply that I wouldn't be surprised if they made one, especially since they renamed Daemon Hunters Grey Knights and the Ordo Xenos is the only branch of the inquisition that isn't represented. If anything I think codexes should be combined to help prevent lag, like combine SoB and Grey Knights into a giant Inquisition Codex (GK codex looks like it is heading that way with options for a Xenos, Hereticus, or Malleus inquisitor instead of just an Ordo Malleus inquisitor). Perhaps abandon some of the lagging marine codexes (honestly you don't even need to repaint your minis to field another army) to lighten the load and help ensure everyone can get a codex every two editions at least. I would like some more variety, but only once the situation has stabilized regarding codexes and lagging behind.


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insaniak wrote:Rather than a single, stand-alone codex, I'd like to see a 'Codex: Xenos' ... Something akin to the Eye of Terror or Armageddon codexes, with a bunch of mini-lists for various different alien races. They don't have to be particularly comprehensive... just a small fluff blurb describing each race and its goals, and a list with half a dozen units ala the original Necron release.

Allows a whole bunch of variety into the game for campaigns and scenario games and, and would give GW the chance to see what will float out there in gaming land before committing to a full release, as they did with Necrons.

I really like this, release Codex: Xenos, see who is selling well and if they have a lot of potential release a full fledged codex.

A republic of humans or an update to the Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
If Chaos update they should make it so that you can include heretics and normal mutants and more firepower (like a Chaos version of a Basilisk).
The republic of humans would be awsome but they need to have the humans in a way that they are epic, but not like the trench heavy IG or SM's. I think they should be like a sub-human race that escaped the Great Crusade

Admech is the one I'd be most excited for and so would a lot of other people. Problem Is I really don't want to see another Imperial abomination ala grey knights.

Codex: Renegades and Heretics would be appreciated, something like the older Lost and the Damned.

Update all the existing codexes before a new one.
And didn't BT have part of c:Armageddon in 3rd?

Marines currently come in Blue, Red, Grey, Silver, Green, Black, and White. We don't have a yellow marines codex yet. Next up, Codex: Imperial Fists.

Seriously though, I could imagine a remade Lost And The Damned so that 40k will finish mirroring Fantasy's division of Chaos. Take a bit of Beasts and a bit of Warriors to make an army of mutants, Chaos-aligned xenos, and human cultists.

Jokaero

I want to see an army of space orangutans.

Titans

The Elder Gods.

the Slaugth I think would be pretty cool

The Hrud,
Enslavers

Raxmei wrote:Marines currently come in Blue, Red, Grey, Silver, Green, Black, and White. We don't have a yellow marines codex yet. Next up, Codex: Imperial Fists.

Unfortunately IFs are very codex adherent. Perhaps a codex Lamenters, Emperor knows they have had enough gak thrown at them to deserve it.

azazel the cat wrote:Jokaero

I want to see an army of space orangutans.

You can do that already, Coteaz, spam inquisitorial acolytes w/ Jokaero. The space apes and their human emperor.

Angry marines.

Nah, Adeptus Mechanicus would be awesome. Pretty much just tank spam lists though I would think.

Human Rebellion

focuses on stealth hit and run tactics maybe throw in a special rule where models can be removed from the board and placed somewhere else or placed in reserves again

Codex : Cultists

With options for Chaos cultists, Stealer Cults, Pro Tau violent Peaceniks (see Ciaphus cain's novels), Ctan cults...

Ascalam wrote:Codex : Cultists

With options for Chaos cultists, Stealer Cults, Pro Tau violent Peaceniks (see Ciaphus cain's novels), Ctan cults...

That's a good idea. Also, what of the human systems outside of the Imperium? Pre-Horus Heresy, when the Emperor was still leading the Great Crusade, a number of advanced human civilizations were encountered and absorbed. Outside the range of the Astronomicon there could be small but highly advanced human empires. Encountering humans that have a tech advantage would be a shock to the hidebound and supersitious Imperium. (Presumably the Inquisition will label them Chaos or Xenos since no "real" humans could be more advanced than the Imperium.)

While I have no interest in Space Skaven, my understanding is that a number of 40k players would like them, but GW isn't interested in making said species/race.

Insaniak, your Codex: Xenos is a good idea.

As for a revision of an older codex, Craftworld Eldar. I bought the Ulthwe army box back in 3rd ed, but never actually got around to assembling it. Under the present Eldar book, all craftworlds play the same. Let's vary the craftworlds again! {Also, Alaitoc should get some anti-Necron tactics/equipment based on the current Necron fluff.}

Bring back squats!!!!!!!!!

Enoulians
Imperial Haters to the extreme, many people would love these. Especially War Haters.
Hrud
Exodites


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Buttons wrote:

Raxmei wrote:Marines currently come in Blue, Red, Grey, Silver, Green, Black, and White. We don't have a yellow marines codex yet. Next up, Codex: Imperial Fists.

Unfortunately IFs are very codex adherent. Perhaps a codex Lamenters, Emperor knows they have had enough gak thrown at them to deserve it.

azazel the cat wrote:Jokaero

I want to see an army of space orangutans.

You can do that already, Coteaz, spam inquisitorial acolytes w/ Jokaero. The space apes and their human emperor.

Nah, Codex: Marines Malevolent.

Ascalam wrote:Codex : Cultists

With options for Chaos cultists, Stealer Cults, Pro Tau violent Peaceniks (see Ciaphus cain's novels), Ctan cults...

How about Codex: Imperial Rebels? All manner of imperial rebels rolled up into a codex, everything from traitor guard, chaos cults, Tau supported PDFs, newly found advanced humans, to genestealer cults. Would allow you to form your own independent human empire, mix cultists and advanced tech for an advanced empire that worships chaos, mix genestealer cultists and Tau supported PDFs to have a world that was driven to revolt into the Tau Empire in order to draw the Tau Empire and Imperium into a bloody war.

If by new race you mean new army i would say Codex: Harlequins.

I dont really even need a codex, maybe some WD list with more models and rules.

Let's see:
Tau - anime in space
Necron - robot/undead things
Dark Eldar - S&M in space

I think we need fewer races, not more

Obviously they should act on the common internet wisdom, and come out with
CODEX: BEARS!

This could go bad in sooo many ways

Great White wrote:I want to see a race of fish people.

Tau already exist.

Why not Rogue Trader? You can either be part of Imperial or heretic sides. Some Rogue Traders don't mind to hire kroots or orks to be part of their army. Some very lucky Rogue Traders may have some space marines thank to their Warrant of Trade.

Seriously thought.... I don't expect for any new army yet because most of the army need updates and GW don't want to risk adding new army yet because of the unstable world economy. I could see that they will add new races to Tau codex.

The Mechanicus needs a Codex.

The Deathwatch operate in small squad based missions in all their engagements. They are dispatched to infiltrate Xenos forces to deliver crippling blows or aquire some piece of technology.

They don't fight in large scale battles like other Marine forces and as such don't deserve a codex(but maybe as an Elite choice for the IG)

Pan Fo.

I think the races at the moment are ideal. I would not create new ones, but rather expand on the others.

I wouldn't mind a small standalone Kroot codex though.

I honestly can't think of any race or playstyle or anything else that would add to the game.

Just need to combine the SM codexes and update the xenos

Joey wrote:Let's see:
Tau - anime in space
Necron - robot/undead things
Dark Eldar - S&M in space

I think we need fewer races, not more

So we will be left with generic super soldiers, evil super soldiers, elves in space, orks in space, and crappy humans? Honestly the only really serious races are Imperial Guard and Tyranids and even then it varies from army to army, God knows the Praetorians and Mordians aren't very fitting for a scifi setting. If you only want armies that don't fulfill a stereotype you get Guard and that is about it, even Tyranids are just xenomorphs with various psychic powers.

Grey Templar wrote:
The Deathwatch operate in small squad based missions in all their engagements. They are dispatched to infiltrate Xenos forces to deliver crippling blows or aquire some piece of technology.

They don't fight in large scale battles like other Marine forces and as such don't deserve a codex(but maybe as an Elite choice for the IG)

Doesn't mean that an Ordo Xenos codex couldn't be cool, regular humans using various degrees of xenos and modified xenos tech supported by small squads of elite deathwatch teams. Besides Grey Knights rarely deploy in large forces yet they are the only troop choices in their codex unless you take Coteaz.

It's all 'in space' so it's going to copy something - romans in space, greeks in space, egyptians in space or whatever.

Personally re-do SoBs with plastics, full releases, fratiris malitia, arbites, judges, confessors, some new units. Use of Valkerie or lightning jet. Make penetant engine into a MC..

In order of preference:

Hrud (preferably the 2nd Edition Skaven kind. Yeah it's 'Fantasy In Space' but so are alot of armies, including the most recent one- Daemons)

AdMech

Lost And The Damned

Rather than release a new codex and a new line of miniatures that would further burden the already congested conveyor belt of armies, how about Codex: Heresy (insert preferred name at will)

Similar to the Codex: Armageddon they released a couple of editions ago this could be a codex that covers all the most influential bits of the Horus Heresy. With a selection of choice new units (rather than an entire new army) and details for scenarios and campaigns and the like. Istvaan, entire systems turning traitor, the Ad Mech torn in two. Plenty of new ground to cover that wouldn't just limit it to C:SM v CSM, although obviously the majority of existing models could be used.

Great scope for something like this and it is anniversary year.

Unfortunately would be pretty much giving the finger to Xenos players (insert appropriate comment here) although there would be scope for Eldar to involved on a certain level.

There are already enough human based armies. I'd like to see another xenos army that provides an expanded opportunity for conversions and paint schemes. Tyranids and Daemons are the only xenos armies that aren't based on the idea of having 2 arms and 2 legs. It would be nice if there was another race like that to choose from.

Bring back the sensei and star child. So the emperor can be reborn like originally planned

Machanicum


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Jim wrote:There are already enough human based armies. I'd like to see another xenos army that provides an expanded opportunity for conversions and paint schemes. Tyranids and Daemons are the only xenos armies that aren't based on the idea of having 2 arms and 2 legs. It would be nice if there was another race like that to choose from.

Awesome idea Jorgall codex ftw

Genestealer cult!

Or better yet, as others have said... fix the stuff you have out now before expanding. Tau, Dark Angels, Chaos, Sisters of Battle, and Eldar are pretty outdated. And I think Tyranids need a new Codex, more so than other recently updated Codexs. Plus you consider all the models who are still using terrible molds (like the 2nd edition Eldar Jetbike), are in metal only (Almost every codex has a this problem), or just units that don't have models.

Buttons wrote:Dark Eldar and Daemon Hunters came out in 3rd edition, Black Templars in 4th, and nothing new came out in 5th.

Fix:
More space marines came out in 3rd edition, even more space marines in 4th, and a unique codex that wasn't ATSKNF in power armor became space mariens in 5th.

I say, relic should come out with a blood ravens codex. Their army is amazing and worth a unique codex.
Up to 4 special or heavy weapons in a tactical squad? Apothecary HQ with FNP radius? Tech marine HQ that can deploy TURRETS? Apothecaries also as elites that can join any squad? Chaplains that give FNP on a 3+? 2 handed thunderhammers? BS5 marines? A 1 handed MELTAGUN, not pistol, for the FC? DREADNOUGHTS WITH FNP?

Dawg, we need blood ravens codex.

Space Skaven!

I think that fan support for an Ad Mech army would be pretty high.

Personally, I don't want it, but that's just me. I'd prefer a completely new, never heard of army.

But even more than that, I would like a 'Heroes of the Imperium' supplement, with Special Characters to represent the dozens and dozens of un-represented groups including Guard worlds, Marine Chapters, and Inquisition groups.

dæl wrote:In order of preference...

Ad Mech
Exodites
Demiurg/Squats

Didn't Daemons come out in 5th?

As an army 4th. On table top...always.

We desperately need a Chaos codex equivalent to the Space Marine Codex. Something that is totally customizable and "pimp my ride" style like that book would make the game all kinds of fun.

sfshilo wrote:We desperately need a Chaos codex equivalent to the Space Marine Codex. Something that is totally customizable and "pimp my ride" style like that book would make the game all kinds of fun.

Chaos is customizable? 4th ed. Chaos is no such thing. 3.5 was, but that was a monstrosity to begin with.
More on topic, SM really have good options already via the various chapters. You like CC? go with BA or SW. You like slow moving heavily armed troops, look to DA Deathwing or GK. SM already has what chaos has, but in a different manner of achieving the same variety.

How about sisters of battle? I mean witch hunters were torn in two by the damned grey knights (probably in the fluff as well) and I'd like to see the sisters get a proper codex centered on them. They have enough black library books with decent fluff, it can't be that hard to make an actual codex for them.

Otherwise ad mech would be nice or some other aliens. I would prefer aliens...or a proper traitor codex. Make it include both cultists and non-chaos traitors maybe. Or just make it chaos spawned. Either way would be good to me. Just make sure they get some damn models.

insaniak wrote:Rather than a single, stand-alone codex, I'd like to see a 'Codex: Xenos' ... Something akin to the Eye of Terror or Armageddon codexes, with a bunch of mini-lists for various different alien races. They don't have to be particularly comprehensive... just a small fluff blurb describing each race and its goals, and a list with half a dozen units ala the original Necron release.

Allows a whole bunch of variety into the game for campaigns and scenario games and, and would give GW the chance to see what will float out there in gaming land before committing to a full release, as they did with Necrons.

I like this idea, I like it a lot.

Eye of terror and armageddon were great codex's in their day

LatD need to come back. I hope the new Chaos Codex has Traitor Guard in it.

A new Xenos race would be nice. Maybe a water species that has adapted itself to land or that fights in enclosed environment suits and uses machines to fight mostly.


Maybe a hyper intelligent Octopusses that exist out of the water in giant environment suits(in game they are walkers) but the bulk of their armies are autonomous battle droids that are roughly man-sized.

So HQs would be Walkers.

Troops choices would be Battle Droids, maybe in open topped transport carriers.

Elites might be some fire support/melee walkers/bigger droids.

Fast Attack would be some skimmers.

Heavy Support would be heavy duty assault droids/really big walkers.


Basically a Walker focused army thats also very Mech feeling(while still being dramatically different in the fluff)

Admech

and if Chaos cultists and renegade guard don't get a place in another codex, I'd like to see rules for them too.

I really hope allies are brought back. Chaos and Imperium should be allowed to put guardsmen in with PA.

Codex Renegades: Cultists, Mutants, Mercenaries, Pirates, Rogue AI etc. A nice mix codex that can be used to represent anything from machine cult to genestealer cult to pirate warband.

Codex Xenos: A list of combinations of a variety of subxenos with generic stats that could be used to represent dozens of different species, with some cool unique tech and useful special abilities.

Great White wrote:I want to see a race of fish people.

Then you are looking for the Saharduin. Or however it's spelled.

Give us Blud Ravens!

Buttons wrote:

Raxmei wrote:Marines currently come in Blue, Red, Grey, Silver, Green, Black, and White. We don't have a yellow marines codex yet. Next up, Codex: Imperial Fists.

Unfortunately IFs are very codex adherent. Perhaps a codex Lamenters, Emperor knows they have had enough gak thrown at them to deserve it.

Unfortunately Lamenters are already in Blood Angels. Adhering to codex isn't necessarily a showstopper. Blood Angels and Dark Angels are both codex chapters. Imperial Fists would be an excellent way to demonstrate how to make a distinct codex out an a force that is nearly indistinguishable from several that already exist.

I like the idea of cult lists.


Or, bring back the bloody kroot mercs army so i can run mine again :(
Was an amusing army to run until they killed it off.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Great White wrote:I want to see a race of fish people.

Tau already exist.

Why do people say this? It shows a blatant disregard for the actual fluff.

Ok, we get it. Tau vehicles are named after aquatic animals. Well, eldar vehicles are named after reptiles and reptile descendants. Clearly they're lizard people.

I would say update the 4th ed stuff before even thinking about it. After that, I had an idea for a psyker xenos race that I'd love to see in full army form. Their base stats would be grot-like and very weak individually, but operate under a psychic choir mechanic that increases their abilities and strengths based on the number of models in the units. Many of their abilities would be based around buffing or debuffing rather than raw firepower. I think it would play fairly unique to anything else out there, but would still work off of current concepts.

Personally I don't want any new races, especially if they start making GW death korpse or Elysians because that would suck! I think they should do up Tau, because they have no fantastic commanders and they army list is very restricted. They desperately need a new codex because they haven been done up since 2003! And I'm not even a Tau player!

Sounds like Coteaz with 6 full squads of psyker buddies in Chimeras backed up by some robots they control psychically (Nemisis DreadKnights) could be a filler until that happens (or doesn't) or you write a balanced fandex.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Great White wrote:I want to see a race of fish people.

Tau already exist.

Why do people say this? It shows a blatant disregard for the actual fluff.

Ok, we get it. Tau vehicles are named after aquatic animals. Well, eldar vehicles are named after reptiles and reptile descendants. Clearly they're lizard people.

I was actually referring to the WMS comic "The Origin of Many Things"

Ewoks! For the win!

Hmmm probably Cultists (chaos and genestealer)

I'd like to see some stand alone chaos space marine codices. Like Codex: world eaters.

I think thebest thing for the game would be codex: release dates. That way maybe they can finish updating codexes before getting a new game edition.

I hope that GW doesn't release any "new" armies in this edition, they just need to man up and do chaos properly with renegades, heretics, mutants, separatists, cultists and even more stuff like that to make them a proper threat in the universe again.

Interex or technocracy too

No new races. Update CSM, Eldar, Black Templars and Tau.

Ascalam wrote:Codex : Cultists

With options for Chaos cultists, Stealer Cults, Pro Tau violent Peaceniks (see Ciaphus cain's novels), Ctan cults...

This topic comes up a lot, and this is the only correct answer.

Cults need to return to the game. They're a huge part of the game fluff, and without a doubt the largest part of the fluff to not have their own codex army list. And they did in the past, so it's not a new race, just revitalizing an existing one.

The problem with a Codex full of Xenos mini lists is the lack of models and the cost associated with mass producing limited demand plastic kits.

mmm yeah a cultists codex options would be very cool.

but you really gotta update current codices and have everyone on ruffly the same sort of codex timeline, okay cool tau and sister are updated to 5th ed codex style, probably do the nids too (not sure who else is behind as much) then after a year or so of the new rules and codex updates for current armys..roll out a new army style like the cultists codex, this would add awesome depth with out pulling 1 codex out of sync with other ones (i.e this is a 6th ed codex and thats a 5th ed or a 4rth ed) you would just have all 5th ed codices with a 6th ed codex that can apply and modify all other codices to a 6th ed level equally if you so wished

timthehierodule wrote:Personally I don't want any new races, especially if they start making GW death korpse or Elysians because that would suck! I think they should do up Tau, because they have no fantastic commanders and they army list is very restricted. They desperately need a new codex because they haven been done up since 2003! And I'm not even a Tau player!

*2005. Right on everything else about the Tau though.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Codex : Cultists

With options for Chaos cultists, Stealer Cults, Pro Tau violent Peaceniks (see Ciaphus cain's novels), Ctan cults...

This topic comes up a lot, and this is the only correct answer.

Cults need to return to the game. They're a huge part of the game fluff, and without a doubt the largest part of the fluff to not have their own codex army list. And they did in the past, so it's not a new race, just revitalizing an existing one.

The problem with a Codex full of Xenos mini lists is the lack of models and the cost associated with mass producing limited demand plastic kits.

I just wanna know how Chaos, Genestealer cults, and angry blue hippies work hand in hand in one codex. Maybe if the Codex: Cultists had 3 different armies? I missed out on 3rd and 4th edition so maybe that happened and I am just ignorant.

I'd like to see a race that we could identify as the "good guys"

Yes, I'm familiar with Grim and his cousin Dark. However, there is simply not a single race currently represented that, IMHO, deserves to run the galaxy.

I tend to play DE and 'crons, so it's not like I actually want to buy that race. Instead, I want to take joy in kicking the snot out of them.

It's just not as much fun enslaving and torturing a race that were already slaves to begin with.

Jackal wrote:I like the idea of cult lists.


Or, bring back the bloody kroot mercs army so i can run mine again :(
Was an amusing army to run until they killed it off.

It's not dead. I encourage the play of chapter approved armies in my games.

What I want: Nothing.

What I expect: Nothing.

Horay! GW delivers!

But really. We have plenty of factions. I would hate it if GW made codex: whatever while tau, eldar and chaos all sit around in obscurity.

Codex: Renegades and Heretics
For renegade guard/ non-marine humans

Codex: Ad Mech
That would be a cool all robot army, a sort of Imperial flavored Necrons.

IMHO there shouldnt be a new race GW has enough trouble keeping up with the races they have, what they should do is update all the present armies but allow for more customasation like in the codex SM allow the formation of your own chapter with its unique perks and drawbacks again, I say do the same thing with all the races now that would be cool. Have true customisation with all the armies no two Tyranid Hive Fleets ever being the same, no two Orc WAAGH being the same, you could build your own craftworld, necron dynasty, whatever ohh my goodness now that would be cool, people would have thier variety and not have to really worry about haveing to release a whole bunch of new models because it would be your personal mix of perks and drawbacks you have combined from the lists in your codex. Hey and honestly they wouldnt even have to redo all the codex for all the armies WD supplements could actually solve this.....Wow just writeing this has got me excited.

Ad mech or rebeliouse humans, that would be like a hord army

Codex Void Whales... already sent GW my personal suggestions. lol

But seriously I agree with alot of you, lets wait for GW to get there gak together with the codexs out right now before we come out with new ones.

Laughing God wrote:Codex Void Whales... already sent GW my personal suggestions. lol

But seriously I agree with alot of you, lets wait for GW to get there gak together with the codexs out right now before we come out with new ones.

Now we know who to blame if we see space whale minis being released.

Kain wrote:

Laughing God wrote:Codex Void Whales... already sent GW my personal suggestions. lol

But seriously I agree with alot of you, lets wait for GW to get there gak together with the codexs out right now before we come out with new ones.

Now we know who to SING GLORIOUS PRAISES OF if we see space whale minis being released.

Fix'd

I would like to see a CODEX: NEXT CODEX

Gonna parrot the majority here and say LatD and AdMech, but only after all the old stuff gets updated. Drop some SM chapters to make room in the schedule.

I really don't want to see anything totally new, though I wouldn't object if Genestealer Cult and Lost and the Damned-type armies were revived.

All I'm particularly keen to get from 6th Ed. is a better-written rules set and some better-balanced army lists.

I still think they should do a Mercs race like Malifaux or Warmachine. It is a bit mainstream and could give you some pretty scary combos but it might be fun.


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clively wrote:I'd like to see a race that we could identify as the "good guys"

Yes, I'm familiar with Grim and his cousin Dark. However, there is simply not a single race currently represented that, IMHO, deserves to run the galaxy.

I tend to play DE and 'crons, so it's not like I actually want to buy that race. Instead, I want to take joy in kicking the snot out of them.

It's just not as much fun enslaving and torturing a race that were already slaves to begin with.

Hmm. Tau?

lord_blackfang wrote:Gonna parrot the majority here and say LatD and AdMech, but only after all the old stuff gets updated. Drop some SM chapters to make room in the schedule.

Drop Daemons/Tau/Sisters of Battle to make room in the schedule. Less players becoming pissed off and it doesn't cut into the profit from the Space Marines.






Not that I believe in dropping any Codex, but I'm always amused when someone wants to drop a Space Marine Codex to make room for his/her preferred faction.

Aueritian (SP?) Tecnocracy or whatever the one in Prospero Burns would be awesome. A heavy infantry/TEQ list with big tanks and fancy robots

TheAngrySquig wrote:Aueritian (SP?) Tecnocracy or whatever the one in Prospero Burns would be awesome. A heavy infantry/TEQ list with big tanks and fancy robots

So, Space Marines?

@BlapBlapBlap

Huh. I guess that's why they say that. Explains a lot

Testify wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:Aueritian (SP?) Tecnocracy or whatever the one in Prospero Burns would be awesome. A heavy infantry/TEQ list with big tanks and fancy robots

So, Space Marines?

But more shooty oriented. Like if Tau had battlesuits as troops, but they would look cooler

I didn't read all the replies, so this may be redundant, but I read that in the next Chaos codex, there will be Chaos Cultists as an option. These guys will probably be something like IG statwise, but with some Chaos thrown in. As long as the models don't have an electronic voice option, that's fine by me (those of you who have played DoW know what I'm talking about.)

I say that first GW needs to get all their current codices up to date and update the older models. IG still have a lot of crappy kits (Ogryns) that cost too much. Not that anything doesn't cost too much, but that's beside the point.

After that, and if 6th Ed flows better than 5th, should they release new armies.

I, personally, would like to see more variations on Chaos. Yeah, the marks and stuff make them varied, but compared to the Loyalists, they don't have a ton of diversity (ie. codex black templar, blood angel, etc.)

Also, I miss Chapter Traits from the previous SM codex...

zilegil wrote:I still think they should do a Mercs race like Malifaux or Warmachine. It is a bit mainstream and could give you some pretty scary combos but it might be fun.


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clively wrote:I'd like to see a race that we could identify as the "good guys"

Yes, I'm familiar with Grim and his cousin Dark. However, there is simply not a single race currently represented that, IMHO, deserves to run the galaxy.

I tend to play DE and 'crons, so it's not like I actually want to buy that race. Instead, I want to take joy in kicking the snot out of them.

It's just not as much fun enslaving and torturing a race that were already slaves to begin with.

Hmm. Tau?

The Tau are the Mormons of 40k. Brainwashed into believing their way is righteous and all of the slaughtering they do is "For the Greater Good!".

Edit: As in they're Mormons about brainwashed zealots, not the killing part.

More Nazi Space Zombies!!! *sigh*

Barring that, I think a Human race that embraces technology would be cool, but I think it goes against the whole Grim Dark woe is me theme.

I have always yearned for more info on the Interex and I think there are a bunch of like minded fans who wouldn't mind this race to be expounded upon.

Or perhaps a Codex: Minor Races.

I'd settle for the Ad Mech, however.

Then, I'd make my own splinter of the Ad Mech who... BREAK THE BONDS OF TYRANNY and set themselves apart on some lone world with a functioning STC and, and, and...

felixander wrote:

zilegil wrote:I still think they should do a Mercs race like Malifaux or Warmachine. It is a bit mainstream and could give you some pretty scary combos but it might be fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

clively wrote:I'd like to see a race that we could identify as the "good guys"

Yes, I'm familiar with Grim and his cousin Dark. However, there is simply not a single race currently represented that, IMHO, deserves to run the galaxy.

I tend to play DE and 'crons, so it's not like I actually want to buy that race. Instead, I want to take joy in kicking the snot out of them.

It's just not as much fun enslaving and torturing a race that were already slaves to begin with.

Hmm. Tau?

The Tau are the Mormons of 40k. Brainwashed into believing their way is righteous and all of the slaughtering they do is "For the Greater Good!".

Edit: As in they're Mormons about brainwashed zealots, not the killing part.

Do you actualy know any mormons? Like, personally? Because if you really did know a couple of mormons, and looked past their religion for the person they are, you'd realise that they aren't that bad. Any religion looks like mad gibberings and old-fashioned, innappropriate ideals if you dig hard enough.

loota boy wrote:

felixander wrote:

zilegil wrote:I still think they should do a Mercs race like Malifaux or Warmachine. It is a bit mainstream and could give you some pretty scary combos but it might be fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

clively wrote:I'd like to see a race that we could identify as the "good guys"

Yes, I'm familiar with Grim and his cousin Dark. However, there is simply not a single race currently represented that, IMHO, deserves to run the galaxy.

I tend to play DE and 'crons, so it's not like I actually want to buy that race. Instead, I want to take joy in kicking the snot out of them.

It's just not as much fun enslaving and torturing a race that were already slaves to begin with.

Hmm. Tau?

The Tau are the Mormons of 40k. Brainwashed into believing their way is righteous and all of the slaughtering they do is "For the Greater Good!".

Edit: As in they're Mormons about brainwashed zealots, not the killing part.

Do you actualy know any mormons? Like, personally? Because if you really did know a couple of mormons, and looked past their religion for the person they are, you'd realise that they aren't that bad. Any religion looks like mad gibberings and old-fashioned, innappropriate ideals if you dig hard enough.

i went to school with a mormon. he was weird. he was in our philosophy and ethics class but he pulled out because he was so offended by peoples beliefs.. what a ass

anyway my philsophy teacher who is one of the smartest people i have ever meet before read to us a passage from the bible ( i really wish i could remeber it for you but it was over a year ago now)

but basically there is a word in this passage used 3 times. the first two times mormons interpret it with one meaning and then the thirds time they interpret it with a different meaning. it changes the whole pages meaning.
the whole mormon argument is based of a misread misentepritation. it is a fallacy too do this i cant remeber what one either ( ahah!)

another argument that falls down is that they belive jesus went to america and australia and africa and peopel wrote books about him all over the world. in america they claim to have found some.. the books they MADE ... i mean umm.. found... were made of solid gold weighting more than 200kg-300kg (big tablet kind of thing) and anyway the book is writen in english... which makes no sense cause native maericans didnt know english... but aprently god told them to write it in english... and yeah HOW THE HELL DID ONE GUY JOSEPH SMITH CARRY A 200KG BOOK FROM ONE SIDE OF THE COUNTRY TO THE OTHER!?!

THE ALSO BELIVE THAT WHEN U DIE U BECOME A GOD OF YOUR OWN GALAXY AND THE GOD OF OUR GALAXY IS JUST A DEAD HUMAN WHO IS NOW THE GOD OF THIS GALAXY> they belive you can have more than 1 wife they dont belive in alot of new science and medicine like stem cell research abortions.... oh yeah and they think that "god" lives on a planet close to neptune. yep. neptune...

Its basically a bogus religion that Mr Smith made up so he could be polygamous and get a cult of fanatical followers. Kinda sad actually.

Meanwhile, at the Hall of On Topic,

The Tau codex is rumored to feature two or three new species like the Demiuge (sp?) and a new insectoid species.

I don't think that they need to introduce new armies. They could stand to include a bit more variation within each codex, though.

Split up the Eldar army in two. Like fantasy has High- and Wood Elves. "Craftworld Eldar" and "Death World Eldar" or something. Then you've got the whole set.

I still don't think either of you have actually took the time to talk to mormons. Some of my best friends are mormons. I have neighbors who are mormons. None of them are fanatical cult followers who blow up at the mere idea that someone doesn't like their religion. None of them twist words of every thing they hear about into their own use. Also, mormons aren't polygamous anymore. Anyone who is well-informed on the subject can tell you that. Sure, it all sounds strange when you first hear about it, but who the hell cares? Mormons are nice people in general, and fairly friendly and neighborly.

Personally Lost and the Damned, something like Eye of Terror.

But lets not forget we may be seeing Chaos Legions

Right I thought that they were going to do Codex: Chaos Legions which as supposed to be a mix of Daemons and Chaos marines, as a replacement for both codexes. Then I thought that there was going to be something like Codex: renegades that was more of a mix between IG and marines that didn't have more of the "new" things that both armies have. Probably loosing orders and ATSKNF, but representing those forces that have left the imperium but not turned to chaos.

Chaos Legion: Thousand Sons

all of the other ones can stay in the eye of terror for all i care lol.

ADEPTUS MECHANICUS! That would be awesome. However, just for the lulz, I'd take Blood Ravens. Just so I could field Indrick Boreale and shout SPESS MAHRENS every 5 seconds and annoy everyone.

No need to drop Demons, just fold them back into Chaos Marines like they always were... can also add them into a cult army too. The Sisters have always been a bastard child afterthought army, so there's no need to drop them, lol. They haven't had a proper codex in years so it isn't like they are even on the schedule, let alone holding it up.

Tau seem pretty well established. Not my favorite army aesthetic (Japanese mecha) but they aren't a bad army concept or rules wise.

Sisters could do with a proper release.

Failing that Hrud =p

I don't think Daemons should be dropped at all. They bring a great deal of variation and I know a lot of Daemon players wwho simply aren't interested in other races nearly as much, I doubt GW would turn away all of those players. PLUS, they already make the figures for WHF, not get double use out of the some models?!?

loota boy wrote:I still don't think either of you have actually took the time to talk to mormons. Some of my best friends are mormons. I have neighbors who are mormons. None of them are fanatical cult followers who blow up at the mere idea that someone doesn't like their religion. None of them twist words of every thing they hear about into their own use. Also, mormons aren't polygamous anymore. Anyone who is well-informed on the subject can tell you that. Sure, it all sounds strange when you first hear about it, but who the hell cares? Mormons are nice people in general, and fairly friendly and neighborly.

You seem well informed on the people you know. Between living in 3 different cities in the US I was harassed by them and in two of those cities I was told that my beliefs were lies, despite them not knowing what I believed. I'll agree that a minority can ruin the majority. I have met plenty of Mormons and have had different experiences than you. And saying that Mormons can or cant' do this or that is wrong because different sects believe different things (And that goes both way about fanatical and polygamy in favor and against them). I am well informed on the subject, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean otherwise. Nevertheless we have different opinions on the same topic (and that's never happened before on the internet ), but I agree we went too far OT, so I will leave it as it may. To each their own, I meant no offense to your friends or neighbors.

I agree, fold Daemons back into the Chaos codex. Keep all their HQs and stuff.

It would be a monster of a codex but thats ok. 1 product, many people buy

In MY perfect world the codexes would be structured like this:

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Inquisition with the ability to field Sisters or Guard as troops and Marines/Deathwatch or Grey Knights as elites, with stats in the book.
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Orks
Chaos
Necrons

Then the books would have supplement books, ie more money for GW, that flesh out niche armies in a fashion similar to the Angels of Death, Craftworld: Eldar and Codex: Catachans books were.

Examples include:
Marines of Every Flavour, Guard Regiments of Various Tastes, Legion lore for Chaos lovers, Ork Klan books. Maybe even one for each of the specific Ordos.

Failing, that, I wish FW would do more standalone armylist variants.

Armies I'd like to see changed in 6e:

Order:

1. The Inquisition becomes represented by 3 codex's, Xenos (Deathwatch), Malleus (GK's), and Hereticus (Sob's).

2. IG: I'd like to see what happened with SM's happen with the IG, where it's one thing to be in the IG, it's another thing entirely to be in the DKOK, Cadian, or Valhallan armies because they get different mechanic bonuses (DKOK = Static Defense, Cadia = Faster more mobile armies, Valhalla = Swarms of cheap infantry and stratagems revolving around massed artillery barrages.), but can always refer to the standard IG codex.

3. Eldar are split into exodites and craftworld codex's.

4. The addition of the Ad Mechs stand-alone codex.

Destruction:

1. The addition of Traitor Guard. It's been far too long that they have been represented in the lore, but only partially represented in the game.

2. Chaos Space Marines need to be A. Divided into 4 much more distinct followings, and should really be fit into a codex about the size of the current SM codex. (So each God should have more options to choose from.) B. Chaos undivided should remain a strong contender by continuing to play off of all 4 God's strengths.

I also think that's about all the tampering GW can handle with their IP atm, adding completely new races (Like Rogue Traders - which would be an awesome race imho) would negate the long overdue changes and additions GW has been backlogged with because everyone would be trying to play a brand new race over the updated ones. Like myself, they probably won't be able to pick and choose to play more than one at a time either, because of how much a new army is probably going to cost in the new edition as well. This is why I'd like to see some division of most of the armies we already own over ones that have entirely different models.

DemetriDominov wrote:Armies I'd like to see changed in 6e:

Order:

1. The Inquisition becomes represented by 3 codex's, Xenos (Deathwatch), Malleus (GK's), and Hereticus (Sob's).

2. IG: I'd like to see what happened with SM's happen with the IG, where it's one thing to be in the IG, it's another thing entirely to be in the DKOK, Cadian, or Valhallan armies because they get different mechanic bonuses (DKOK = Static Defense, Cadia = Faster more mobile armies, Valhalla = Swarms of cheap infantry and stratagems revolving around massed artillery barrages.), but can always refer to the standard IG codex.

3. Eldar are split into exodites and craftworld codex's.

4. The addition of the Ad Mechs stand-alone codex.

Destruction:

1. The addition of Traitor Guard. It's been far too long that they have been represented in the lore, but only partially represented in the game.

2. Chaos Space Marines need to be A. Divided into 4 much more distinct followings, and should really be fit into a codex about the size of the current SM codex. (So each God should have more options to choose from.) B. Chaos undivided should remain a strong contender by continuing to play off of all 4 God's strengths.

I also think that's about all the tampering GW can handle with their IP atm, adding completely new races (Like Rogue Traders - which would be an awesome race imho) would negate the long overdue changes and additions GW has been backlogged with because everyone would be trying to play a brand new race over the updated ones. Like myself, they probably won't be able to pick and choose to play more than one at a time either, because of how much a new army is probably going to cost in the new edition as well. This is why I'd like to see some division of most of the armies we already own over ones that have entirely different models.

And you would expect this to all happen in your lifetime?

Adeptus Arbities.

Brother SRM wrote:The Deathwatch don't need a codex, you can already make a solid Deathwatch list with Sternguard. They use almost the exact same rules. I'd be down for Ad Mech or a return of Lost and the Damned or Genestealer Cults.

I disagree with this. The basic story of the Deathwatch is known yes but, that's it. More over, rules wise it isn't easy to try and stern guard. Also, the Deathwatch coming from different chapters means that their rules should be varried based on every member hails from a differ doctorine. Also, as to what sort of organization and equipment they use. I really want to see them in 6th edition. Their history, how long a member serves with Ordos, and the rules that they should follow. The only rules that can be found come form an article in chapter approved back in 4th edition. Also, the tau came out towards the tail end of 3rd edition.

Kiryu Mk 3 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:The Deathwatch don't need a codex, you can already make a solid Deathwatch list with Sternguard. They use almost the exact same rules. I'd be down for Ad Mech or a return of Lost and the Damned or Genestealer Cults.

I disagree with this. The basic story of the Deathwatch is known yes but, that's it. More over, rules wise it isn't easy to try and stern guard. Also, the Deathwatch coming from different chapters means that their rules should be varried based on every member hails from a differ doctorine. Also, as to what sort of organization and equipment they use. I really want to see them in 6th edition. Their history, how long a member serves with Ordos, and the rules that they should follow. The only rules that can be found come form an article in chapter approved back in 4th edition. Also, the tau came out towards the tail end of 3rd edition.

The problem with Deathwatch is the rarity of them assembling as an entire army.

I think Traitor Guard or Adeptus Mechanicus both are:

1) Not another Marine dex
2) Field actual armies

Akroma06 wrote:Right I thought that they were going to do Codex: Chaos Legions which as supposed to be a mix of Daemons and Chaos marines, as a replacement for both codexes. Then I thought that there was going to be something like Codex: renegades that was more of a mix between IG and marines that didn't have more of the "new" things that both armies have. Probably loosing orders and ATSKNF, but representing those forces that have left the imperium but not turned to chaos.

I say they do some consolidation. Combined CSM and CD codexes into a big chaos codex with traitor guard tossed in. Perhaps abandon an SM codex simply to allow focus on other codexes, and as I have suggested for a while, make a single inquisition codex.


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Unit1126PLL wrote:

Kiryu Mk 3 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:The Deathwatch don't need a codex, you can already make a solid Deathwatch list with Sternguard. They use almost the exact same rules. I'd be down for Ad Mech or a return of Lost and the Damned or Genestealer Cults.

I disagree with this. The basic story of the Deathwatch is known yes but, that's it. More over, rules wise it isn't easy to try and stern guard. Also, the Deathwatch coming from different chapters means that their rules should be varried based on every member hails from a differ doctorine. Also, as to what sort of organization and equipment they use. I really want to see them in 6th edition. Their history, how long a member serves with Ordos, and the rules that they should follow. The only rules that can be found come form an article in chapter approved back in 4th edition. Also, the tau came out towards the tail end of 3rd edition.

The problem with Deathwatch is the rarity of them assembling as an entire army.

I think Traitor Guard or Adeptus Mechanicus both are:

1) Not another Marine dex
2) Field actual armies

Honestly one could use grey knight rules pretty nicely, perhaps use psybolt ammunition and maybe some fancy weapons with your squads while simply ignoring psychic powers.

While not a bad idea, it just doesn't sit well with me to do that.

While I would literally kill someone for a good Lost and the Damned codex, I think they need to update or consolidate the armies they do have. GW already has 16 books out (7 of which are space marine FYI).

And demons is not a new race.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Gonna parrot the majority here and say LatD and AdMech, but only after all the old stuff gets updated. Drop some SM chapters to make room in the schedule.

Drop Daemons/Tau/Sisters of Battle to make room in the schedule. Less players becoming pissed off and it doesn't cut into the profit from the Space Marines.






Not that I believe in dropping any Codex, but I'm always amused when someone wants to drop a Space Marine Codex to make room for his/her preferred faction.

I'm always amused by the Space Marine players who think that loyalists need more than one Codex.

If they drop an army it oughta be Dark Angels or Black Templars. T hen we would have less space marines.

A Xenos Mercenary Codex would be tight. You could either run a merc army or fill a few FOC slots with em. I think it would have the potential to be the highest selling codex.

acekevin8412 wrote:In MY perfect world the codexes would be structured like this:

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Inquisition with the ability to field Sisters or Guard as troops and Marines/Deathwatch or Grey Knights as elites, with stats in the book.
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Orks
Chaos
Necrons

Then the books would have supplement books, ie more money for GW, that flesh out niche armies in a fashion similar to the Angels of Death, Craftworld: Eldar and Codex: Catachans books were.

Examples include:
Marines of Every Flavour, Guard Regiments of Various Tastes, Legion lore for Chaos lovers, Ork Klan books. Maybe even one for each of the specific Ordos.

Failing, that, I wish FW would do more standalone armylist variants.

DemetriDominov wrote:Armies I'd like to see changed in 6e:

Order:

1. The Inquisition becomes represented by 3 codex's, Xenos (Deathwatch), Malleus (GK's), and Hereticus (Sob's).

2. IG: I'd like to see what happened with SM's happen with the IG, where it's one thing to be in the IG, it's another thing entirely to be in the DKOK, Cadian, or Valhallan armies because they get different mechanic bonuses (DKOK = Static Defense, Cadia = Faster more mobile armies, Valhalla = Swarms of cheap infantry and stratagems revolving around massed artillery barrages.), but can always refer to the standard IG codex.

3. Eldar are split into exodites and craftworld codex's.

4. The addition of the Ad Mechs stand-alone codex.

Destruction:

1. The addition of Traitor Guard. It's been far too long that they have been represented in the lore, but only partially represented in the game.

2. Chaos Space Marines need to be A. Divided into 4 much more distinct followings, and should really be fit into a codex about the size of the current SM codex. (So each God should have more options to choose from.) B. Chaos undivided should remain a strong contender by continuing to play off of all 4 God's strengths.

I also think that's about all the tampering GW can handle with their IP atm, adding completely new races (Like Rogue Traders - which would be an awesome race imho) would negate the long overdue changes and additions GW has been backlogged with because everyone would be trying to play a brand new race over the updated ones. Like myself, they probably won't be able to pick and choose to play more than one at a time either, because of how much a new army is probably going to cost in the new edition as well. This is why I'd like to see some division of most of the armies we already own over ones that have entirely different models.

No Tyranids!? in all of that!? lol Without races like Tyranids and tau all you have is humans in two flavors... O ya and orks, and necrons which are pretty much dead humans in space.

LoneLictor wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Gonna parrot the majority here and say LatD and AdMech, but only after all the old stuff gets updated. Drop some SM chapters to make room in the schedule.

Drop Daemons/Tau/Sisters of Battle to make room in the schedule. Less players becoming pissed off and it doesn't cut into the profit from the Space Marines.






Not that I believe in dropping any Codex, but I'm always amused when someone wants to drop a Space Marine Codex to make room for his/her preferred faction.

I'm always amused by the Space Marine players who think that loyalists need more than one Codex.

We do because the Space Marine sales essentially carry the hobby. Any cuts in profitability hits Xenos as well. Furthermore, a Space Marine Codex arguably takes less time to update, as some parts can be copypasted. This means that the schedule might not uncluttered just because a Marine Codex is removed.

Lastly, why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK? The splitting of Chaos into two is also a oft-maligned development, as it left people with half armies, and yet having the same thing happen to a Space Marine Codex is completely fine because bacon tastes nice or something. It's simply a double standard that I have never understood.

Kiryu Mk 3 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:The Deathwatch don't need a codex, you can already make a solid Deathwatch list with Sternguard. They use almost the exact same rules. I'd be down for Ad Mech or a return of Lost and the Damned or Genestealer Cults.

I disagree with this. The basic story of the Deathwatch is known yes but, that's it. More over, rules wise it isn't easy to try and stern guard. Also, the Deathwatch coming from different chapters means that their rules should be varried based on every member hails from a differ doctorine. Also, as to what sort of organization and equipment they use. I really want to see them in 6th edition. Their history, how long a member serves with Ordos, and the rules that they should follow. The only rules that can be found come form an article in chapter approved back in 4th edition. Also, the tau came out towards the tail end of 3rd edition.

How does one stern guard? Are you saying it isn't easy to put Sternguard in a list? It's very easy to put them in a list. Take Pedro as your HQ (Deathwatch Captain) and use some Scouts as Inquisitorial Stormtrooper stand-ins. If every man in the squad had different rules that would be a goddamn nightmare to keep track of. Do a counts-as with Wolf Guard in a Logan's Heroes list I guess. Their organization is ad-hoc veteran squads with specialized ammunition. Vets with specialized ammunition? Where have I heard that before? Finally, what the hell do Tau have to do with any of this? Tau are lovely, but not Deathwatch Marines.

I'd be happy to see Deathwatch fluff expanded, but there's really no reason for them to get their own codex whatsoever.

The Deathwatch don't engage in full scale battles and as such don't deserve a Codex. They operate in squad based kill teams that operate like proper special forces.

They go in, meet their objective, and get out. They don't fight proper battles except as allies to the IG or other Imperial forces.


And don't bring up GKs. they do operate in full scale battles against the enemy. No different to normal space marines.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

I swear in Demiurg/Squat

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

That's a pretty weak comparison. The squats don't have the basic core of their rules written down in any other codices, whereas all the loyalist marine chapters do. Most of the armies differences could be summed up by a couple of unique rules and units. Something like the old Index Astartes, with around six pages dedicated to each chapter and a short form of the Vanilla army list at the back, so you don't have to tote around two books. You could cover every loyalist founding chapter that way.

htj wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

That's a pretty weak comparison. The squats don't have the basic core of their rules written down in any other codices, whereas all the loyalist marine chapters do. Most of the armies differences could be summed up by a couple of unique rules and units. Something like the old Index Astartes, with around six pages dedicated to each chapter and a short form of the Vanilla army list at the back, so you don't have to tote around two books. You could cover every loyalist founding chapter that way.

The thing is, though, other than Razorspam lists the different Marine Codices really don't share builds, which means that any Marine player that isn't playing Razorspam and wants to remain competetive if his or her Codex is removed will have to buy loads of new stuff anyway, just like everyone else. Who other than Deathwing runs an army of all-Assault Terminators with heavy weapons (and if you say Loganwing I'll punch you over the internet)? What army other than C:SM runs all-bike lists? Who other than Blood Angels play an all-deep-strike Assault Marine list? Who other than Black Templars play with combined, massive squads of Marines running across the board to punch people in the face?

Regarding the Index Astartes comparison, a lot of people (rightfully, I might add) threw a tantrum when variant lists such as Craftworld Eldar were removed, but people are just fine with the same thing happening to Space Marines.

Finally, I don't consider adding one special character unlocking one unit and giving one Chapter Tactics as "covering" an army. Imperial Guard players aren't pleased with the current way of portraying different armies, Chaos aren't very pleased with their 'dex and Eldar aren't exactly extatic either. I don't see why it'd be a good idea to make some Space Marine players feel the same.

It would be fair because SM are over saturated as is compared to the other armies >_>

About half the codexes are SM based. About 1/3 of the other half are Imperial. That leaves 1/3 of all armies for xeno/chaos. That cuts into their development time and we end up with things like the 10+ wait between Dark Eldar and soon to be Tau codexes.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

Are you seriously suggesting that an entire race is worth exactly the same as a few unique units, most of which are shoehorned in to make things look more different than they actually are. You can't just use the IG codex to represent Squats, anymore than you can represent Tau with Orks. They are different races entirely.

You can use Codex: IGuard to represent Squats. People do it all the time. Sure, a few models like the trikes and Exo-armor have been rendered obsolete, but given the simplification of the rules for movement, there's almost no effective difference between a Squat with a lasgun and a Guardsman with a lasgun. They have the same basic weaponry, armor, and heavy weapons. In Rogue Trader they even had the same exact tanks, with no reason to say that they couldn't have had the same tanks if they had survived, rules-wise, past the Black Book Codex from the 2nd Edition boxed set. Most of the alternate weapon Squats would be serviceable Veterans, Stormtroopers, Sergeants, officers etc.

I love the Squats as much as any other reasonable, rational human being with a soul, however ultimately, rendering the Squats as a themed Imperial Guard force (like the Praetorians, Mordians, Vostroyans etc) was what probably should have been done with them in the transition between Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition.

acekevin8412 wrote:About half the codexes are SM based. About 1/3 of the other half are Imperial. That leaves 1/3 of all armies for xeno/chaos. That cuts into their development time and we end up with things like the 10+ wait between Dark Eldar and soon to be Tau codexes.

And Black Templars. People assume that Space Marine players always jump ship to the latest Codex, but Black Templars don't get an update just because for example Blood Angels do.

Personnally I would like to see the Tanith First and Only return with their own codex. The Gaunts Ghost series is after all the best series ever (personnal preferance) and holds the Black Librarys best seller(fact). They were in 3rd or 4th edition but got taken out.
Again I would also like to see a race that was in an earily edition but were taken out make a come back. What do you think?

@vet sgt. Eldar had lascannons back then, so Squats having the same tanks as IG is a bit of a moot point, and you even mentioned that some of their most units were rendered obsolete. Just because people have to find a codex that best fits Squats doesn't mean that the codex they pick is perfect for building a Squat army, it's not. Its the same with Ad Mech and Exodites, people can represent then sort of with what is out there, but that isn't as good as having an actual codex which explores what that specific army can do and how it would go to war.

I personally don't mind there being different codexes for different chapters, I'd like to see Iron Hands get their own, but I'd rather see the things I mentioned on Page 1 first, namely Ad Mech, Exodites and Squats. But people claiming that getting rid of a marine codex and still leaving many more marine codexes is the same as getting rid of an entire race and leaving people forced to play counts as is absolutely wrong.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:About half the codexes are SM based. About 1/3 of the other half are Imperial. That leaves 1/3 of all armies for xeno/chaos. That cuts into their development time and we end up with things like the 10+ wait between Dark Eldar and soon to be Tau codexes.

And Black Templars. People assume that Space Marine players always jump ship to the latest Codex, but Black Templars don't get an update just because for example Blood Angels do.

Sorry about that. At least the Black Templar were significantly different than C:SM. I really don't see why Dark Angels or Blood Angels were really necessary.

In my opinion, Wolves would have been done better with a book full of special characters/units for all the FoC slots.

Squats were taken out for a reason, because the design has basically hit a brick wall and the fact that the concept couldn't work in the setting. So please stop trying to get them re-introduced.

Codex: Legion of the Damned, Codex: Salamanders, Codex: Barghesi (spelt right?)

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Squats were taken out for a reason, because the design has basically hit a brick wall and the fact that the concept couldn't work in the setting. So please stop trying to get them re-introduced.

So you've come to a thread about what races people would like to see introduced to 6th to say that one of those races is invalid. There's something almost admirable to that, almost. Demiurg seem to work in Battlefleet Gothic just fine, and there was nothing stopping the designers revamping a race, they just did that with necrons.

Codex My Little Pony.

Written by Matthew Ward and Lauren Frost.

dæl wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Squats were taken out for a reason, because the design has basically hit a brick wall and the fact that the concept couldn't work in the setting. So please stop trying to get them re-introduced.

So you've come to a thread about what races people would like to see introduced to 6th to say that one of those races is invalid. There's something almost admirable to that, almost. Demiurg seem to work in Battlefleet Gothic just fine, and there was nothing stopping the designers revamping a race, they just did that with necrons.

Alessio and Jervis said Squats were removed because they became too silly and the design team felt unable to carry it forward.

And Demiurg have 2 ships and are auxiliaries in a fleet list nobody uses and are never used in my experience,

I just gets annoying every month or so there is a thread or people in a thread crying about how they want squats, please take off the rose tinted glasses

Shadowbrand wrote:Codex My Little Pony.

Written by Matthew Ward and Lauren Frost.

"Frost?" You mean Faust?

Sure.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Lastly, why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Because you have four more, five if you include Grey Knights, and six if you include SoB which are like girl marines. I will listen to your plea when IG gets a codex for Catachans, DKoK, Vostroyans, and Tallarn, in addition to the Imperial Guard Codex. Honestly, if you suddenly lost a space marine codex you have to do absolutely nothing except pick up Codex: Space Marine, or one of the other three flavours, you don't even need to repaint them. If IG or Tau or Dark Eldar or Tyranids or Necrons disappear you lose hundreds of dollars worth of models that are nothing but decorations without the rules to play. Also, I personally propose more consolidation, not just marines
Chaos Daemons+Chaos Space Marines+Some Traitor IG=Codex: Chaos (or Eye of Terror or some other fancy name)
Codex Space Marines+Red Space Marines+Black Space Marines+Green Space Marines+Furry Space Marines=Codex: Space Marines (or Adeptus Astartes or Angels of Death or a fancy name)
Sisters of Battle+Grey Knights+Deathwatch+Some IG Infantry and Storm Troopers=Codex: Inquisition (can't think of a fancy name for this)
For a total of six fewer codexes (even then we can keep the more diverse marine codexes as independent codexes rather than combining them all), which should make updating codexes much easier.

Hell now you can even get some more diversity in other armies. Want to mix some Grey Knights, SoB, and some conscripted IG infantry? Do Codex: Inquisition, get some SoB and IG as troops with Grey Knights as elites. Want to field some traitor guard supported by daemons? Choose Codex: Chaos and have some daemons and traitor guard, hell maybe toss in a chaos lord as the leader.

As for marines making up most of the sales, that may be true, but consolidating them won't collapse the company and it won't drive away any more customers than say an Imperial Fist fan not starting the hobby because his army doesn't have its own codex, or a Raven Guard fan not starting the hobby because Raven Guard doesn't get its own army. Also, remember that at one point the Blood Angels and Dark Angels were in one codex.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Alessio and Jervis said Squats were removed because they became too silly and the design team felt unable to carry it forward.

And Demiurg have 2 ships and are auxiliaries in a fleet list nobody uses and are never used in my experience,

I just gets annoying every month or so there is a thread or people in a thread crying about how they want squats, please take off the rose tinted glasses

Your first point is a fair one, I've seen the thing they wrote about it, but they could reinvent them.

Your second point I wouldn't really know about, never played Battlefleet Gothic.

Your last point is pretty fair as well, except this is a thread about what race people would like to see brought into 6th, so its a perfectly acceptable discussion in these circumstances. As I've said my main issue was the comparison that removing one of many marine codexes is the same as removing the only codex of a whole race.

Midnightdeathblade wrote:Codex: Legion of the Damned, Codex: Salamanders

You mean Lost and the Damned? And why do people ever think Salamanders deserve their own codex, let alone will get one?

Brother SRM wrote:

Midnightdeathblade wrote:Codex: Legion of the Damned, Codex: Salamanders

You mean Lost and the Damned? And why do people ever think Salamanders deserve their own codex, let alone will get one?

I think he means Legion of the Damned. The firey/ghosty/badassy Space Marines. And I have no idea why people would want a Salamanders dex, I can't see what makes them so special besides some cool fluff

I would like to see a chaos united codex all the forces of chaos united, marines daemons and the other chaos forces cultists chaos xenos mutants etc

I would like any new xeno race. This game needs more "alien" races, not factions of the imperium, for or against.

Buttons wrote:Honestly, if you suddenly lost a space marine codex you have to do absolutely nothing except pick up Codex: Space Marine, or one of the other three flavours, you don't even need to repaint them.

And my army would be rubbish, forcing me to purchase new stuff anyway, unless I were playing some form of Razorspam, in which case everyone and their mother will complain about how dull and uninspired my army is.

Could any Space Marine Codex's models instantly switch to another Codex? Yes. Would that be a functioning army? Doubtful. I'll give the examples again: What army other than Deathwing fields loads of assault terminators with heavy weapons? Who other than C:SM play all-bike lists? Who other than Blood Angels play with lots and lots of Assault Marines? Who other than Grey Knights have power weapons and storm bolters everywhere? Who other than Black Templars have dual heavy weapon Terminators and massive blobs of angry people running at the enemy?

Is it as bad for a Space Marine player to lose his or her Codex as it is for anyone else? No. Is it bad enough that it is a really bad idea? IMO, yes.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The thing is, though, other than Razorspam lists the different Marine Codices really don't share builds, which means that any Marine player that isn't playing Razorspam and wants to remain competetive if his or her Codex is removed will have to buy loads of new stuff anyway, just like everyone else. Who other than Deathwing runs an army of all-Assault Terminators with heavy weapons (and if you say Loganwing I'll punch you over the internet)? What army other than C:SM runs all-bike lists? Who other than Blood Angels play an all-deep-strike Assault Marine list? Who other than Black Templars play with combined, massive squads of Marines running across the board to punch people in the face?

Log-- oh. There's no reason to lose those builds. The vast majority of the varient chapter codices are filler. Sure, the fluff and pictures might be nice, but they're by no means essential. The actual rules deviations are fairly minor, and could easily be fit in a smaller space. So you wouldn't have to change builds to become competitive.

Regarding the Index Astartes comparison, a lot of people (rightfully, I might add) threw a tantrum when variant lists such as Craftworld Eldar were removed, but people are just fine with the same thing happening to Space Marines.

Specific craftworlds never had their own codices, though. They were in 'bonus' books, like Codex: Eye of Terror. This would be the same thing as that, but with more comprehensive rules differences.

Finally, I don't consider adding one special character unlocking one unit and giving one Chapter Tactics as "covering" an army. Imperial Guard players aren't pleased with the current way of portraying different armies, Chaos aren't very pleased with their 'dex and Eldar aren't exactly extatic either. I don't see why it'd be a good idea to make some Space Marine players feel the same.

I hate the requried special characters to make your army work. A re-organised FOC and unit allowance, some key special rules, and a couple of unique units pretty much defines the special Marine books (not counting GK on this one, they're a whole separate issue). As I said above, you wouldn't have to lose any of the flavour of the list, and wouldn't have to rebuild your list at all.

There's also one key bonus to this structure. Your codex would update more frequently. Black Templar players are unhappy with the time between updates for their codex right now. Dark Angels players have a codex that very much feels like the practice run for the 5E vanilla codex. Now, if they had been released together in this unified chapter codex, all the varient chapters could have a codex as recent as Space Wolves or Blood Angels. You can't tell me that wouldn't be a good thing for the game.

Maybe some sort of codex for native flora and fauna? Y'know, exploding broccoli or something

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Buttons wrote:Honestly, if you suddenly lost a space marine codex you have to do absolutely nothing except pick up Codex: Space Marine, or one of the other three flavours, you don't even need to repaint them.

And my army would be rubbish, forcing me to purchase new stuff anyway, unless I were playing some form of Razorspam, in which case everyone and their mother will complain about how dull and uninspired my army is.

Could any Space Marine Codex's models instantly switch to another Codex? Yes. Would that be a functioning army? Doubtful. I'll give the examples again: What army other than Deathwing fields loads of assault terminators with heavy weapons? Who other than C:SM play all-bike lists? Who other than Blood Angels play with lots and lots of Assault Marines? Who other than Grey Knights have power weapons and storm bolters everywhere? Who other than Black Templars have dual heavy weapon Terminators and massive blobs of angry people running at the enemy?

Is it as bad for a Space Marine player to lose his or her Codex as it is for anyone else? No. Is it bad enough that it is a really bad idea? IMO, yes.

So your army won't be the most competitive for a while, it isn't the best thing, but it is a sacrifice I will be willing to have other people take to make the game more diverse. In all seriousness, I don't hate the marine codexes for existing, but they are simply too numerous, even in 6th edition at least three marine codexes will probably come out, as well as SoB and maybe IG, which adds up a lot when armies like Tau and Eldar really need an update. Perhaps they could come out and say "we won't update (insert a marine codex here) don't expect a new codex ever, but you can still play it at tournaments and their rules will still be accepted." Then you could keep playing your army while slowly buying models that work better with another codex.

Sunoccard wrote:Admech is the one I'd be most excited for and so would a lot of other people. Problem Is I really don't want to see another Imperial abomination ala grey knights.

Codex: Renegades and Heretics would be appreciated, something like the older Lost and the Damned.

There is a Renegade and Heretics Codex on Forgeworld, along with Death Korps of Krieg.

I would say a unified codex for Space marines (and all their different chapters) a Chaos codex (deamons, heretics, cultists and marines altogether) an Adeptus Mechanicus codex, a unified Inquisition codex (which covers all the different branches) OR ANY codex that isn't IoM

Xeno Hunters I call.

htj wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The thing is, though, other than Razorspam lists the different Marine Codices really don't share builds, which means that any Marine player that isn't playing Razorspam and wants to remain competetive if his or her Codex is removed will have to buy loads of new stuff anyway, just like everyone else. Who other than Deathwing runs an army of all-Assault Terminators with heavy weapons (and if you say Loganwing I'll punch you over the internet)? What army other than C:SM runs all-bike lists? Who other than Blood Angels play an all-deep-strike Assault Marine list? Who other than Black Templars play with combined, massive squads of Marines running across the board to punch people in the face?

Log-- oh. There's no reason to lose those builds. The vast majority of the varient chapter codices are filler. Sure, the fluff and pictures might be nice, but they're by no means essential. The actual rules deviations are fairly minor, and could easily be fit in a smaller space. So you wouldn't have to change builds to become competitive.

My arguments are aimed at the suggestion that one or more Marine Codices should flat out be dropped, not against the consolidation of books. If it's done properly it could work, but I don't trust GW to do it properly. Furthermore, as I've already said, I don' see the various Chapters being properly represented by a few USRs in a unified Codex.

Ideally, I'd want things to have different costs in the various Marine Codices to make them take different units. For example, make the ranged weapons in Codex: Black Templars more expensive, but provide cheaper or better melee alternatives, pushing them toward melee-centric lists and removing the Razorspam-style army as the one unifying theme.

Here's a thought: if GW made the various variant Marine Codices more different from each other, would that be an acceptable fix or would the simple fact that they're Space Marines mean that they "have to go"?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

htj wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The thing is, though, other than Razorspam lists the different Marine Codices really don't share builds, which means that any Marine player that isn't playing Razorspam and wants to remain competetive if his or her Codex is removed will have to buy loads of new stuff anyway, just like everyone else. Who other than Deathwing runs an army of all-Assault Terminators with heavy weapons (and if you say Loganwing I'll punch you over the internet)? What army other than C:SM runs all-bike lists? Who other than Blood Angels play an all-deep-strike Assault Marine list? Who other than Black Templars play with combined, massive squads of Marines running across the board to punch people in the face?

Log-- oh. There's no reason to lose those builds. The vast majority of the varient chapter codices are filler. Sure, the fluff and pictures might be nice, but they're by no means essential. The actual rules deviations are fairly minor, and could easily be fit in a smaller space. So you wouldn't have to change builds to become competitive.

My arguments are aimed at the suggestion that one or more Marine Codices should flat out be dropped, not against the consolidation of books. If it's done properly it could work, but I don't trust GW to do it properly. Furthermore, as I've already said, I don' see the various Chapters being properly represented by a few USRs in a unified Codex.

Ideally, I'd want things to have different costs in the various Marine Codices to make them take different units. For example, make the ranged weapons in Codex: Black Templars more expensive, but provide cheaper or better melee alternatives, pushing them toward melee-centric lists and removing the Razorspam-style army as the one unifying theme.

Here's a thought: if GW made the various variant Marine Codices more different from each other, would that be an acceptable fix or would the simple fact that they're Space Marines mean that they "have to go"?

It's mostly because a lot of the differences feel really forced, like they don't really need to be there. People say that they didn't require their own codexes because they weren't all that different from regular space marines, so GW went out of their way to make them different, even if those differences didn't really make sense. You could make a salamander's codex and throw in all the new units a special characters you wanted, and made it as unique and different from any space marines book there is, but the fact is they just shouldn't be. Salamanders are fine with the rules of the space marines codex, you just made your army in a fluffy way that represented the ideals of the salamanders well. It is easily achieved by a green paint job, and the appropriate units. Most say that you could do the same thing for most of the other space marine codexes. The only really unique ones that i see where the differences aren't forced are GK, Templars, and DA. But GK could probably be just lumped in with sisters for a codex: Inquisition without too much issue.

The way I see any Chapter/Legion/Clan/Craftworld/Regiment variant being done, is as a supplement at the end of the book saying something along the lines of, "If you want to run this army list, you have this FoC, and these special rules for x points.

If you want to run Blood Angels, Assault Marines become troops and Rhino Chassis gain fast for +15pts.
Black Templar? Tactical Marines get Bolt Pistol/CCW, increased squad size, and Furious Charge.
Dark Angels? Terminator Troops with different options.

It just goes on and on...
Then again, I don't play Marines and I may be over simplifying things....
...I do play Elysian Drop Troops however, and I can sum up most of the list like this:

Everything(almost) can deep strike and regroup when near an officer for +1pt per model. Valkyries become Dedicated Transports. And non-vet squad heavy weapons are replaced with Demo-Charges. There done. FW/GW should do more variant lists like this that are full of known units but with different options and in different FoC slots.

What I'd really like to see
Renegades and Heretics, covering cult lists and secessionist
A list pertaining to the Outsider and his motley horde of rag tag allies clumped together to try and beat the 'crons (If you can't beat the fluff just try and make the best of it :L)
An List combining the rest of the Imperial forces (Inquisition, SoB, Ad Mech etc.)

What I expect:
Nothing really, it's GW

Want: a New race with design features not using Cephalization (big word that means has a head, or isn't roughly human or animal shaped). Something using plants would be possible, although the orks are technically fungi. Or ameoboid creatures. Focusing on blast template weaponry, targeting uncommon statistics like say, initiative instead of toughness for damaging, and utilizing their larger creatures as vehicles for the smaller ones.

Expect: if it's not another 3+ armor save army, it will focus on one new aspect of battle, be it a new evasion statistic, uncommon turn structure gameplay, or fliers. Other army codex's that have not yet been FAQ'd to have access to reliable countermeasures to the new abilities will become near incapable of dealing with the new race on that playing field. This may be intentional to cause more sales, or an oversight on their part in forgetting just what armies people play outside of tournament structure.

What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

I'd rather they focused on existing codecies.

i wouldnt mind seeing individual IG regiment codices so tallarn cadia mordian etc with specialist units for each regiment

Crimson-King2120 wrote:i wouldnt mind seeing individual IG regiment codices so tallarn cadia mordian etc with specialist units for each regiment

If this became true the first (And only codex) should be Tanith 1st

A xenos book or a mercs book would be pretty darn sweet.

Since battles of 40k are rarely actually the size of a interstellar conflict, I could even see human space pirates working into a list there.

But really, I'm hoping it would pave the way for The Cabal to be fleshed out a little better.

A new alien or distant human dex would be dandy.

dæl wrote:In order of preference...

Ad Mech
Exodites
Demiurg/Squats

Didn't Daemons come out in 5th?

BT came out in 3rd. Tau came out with 4th. Demons came out in 5th, before that there was just one "Chaos" codex.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
What about another bug-like race? Remember the spider aliens from "Horus Rising"?

Grugknuckle wrote:

dæl wrote:In order of preference...

Ad Mech
Exodites
Demiurg/Squats

Didn't Daemons come out in 5th?

BT came out in 3rd. Tau came out with 4th. Demons came out in 5th, before that there was just one "Chaos" codex.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
What about another bug-like race? Remember the spider aliens from "Horus Rising"?

Tau came out in late 3rd and got a new dex in 4th, BT had a few pages in armageddon book in 3rd and a full dex in 4th and Deamons were part of the 3rd, 3.5 CSM dex and got there own in 4th, im still unsure why BT got there own dex to be honest it wasnt needed as we already had a "knight" themed codex with DA and it could have been expanded to allow most of the things BT dex had (but not the updated 4th BT codex) with the few pages armaeddon dex.

I agree with a few others on here, i would like to see a renagades/heretics/mercs dex, you could have everything from eldar, kroot, humans and some other minor races like the loaxatle (SP) or H'Rud, alongside rogue traders and some space marines (loyal or traitor, but that would depend on how you model them), it would be cool

Actually...

You know what would be WAY better than a new race?
How about some terrain that isn't imperial.

I wouldn't mind seeing more xenon's threats to kill either. In a perfect world Ad mec, and better individualism of the IG would be on top of this xenos edition. Also, I think that a true Mercenaries / Rogue Trader codex could be a fantastic addition, i'll explain why, but here's what I'm thinking first:

Mercs R/Ts:

Able to use the services of certain armies, much like a dark and less noble version of how the Inquisition can pull things together from various loyalist groups, RT's can acquire the services of virtually any race / faction, for a certain price. for balance, things like pairing a loyalist chapter with a CSM chapter either can't exist, or is made to cost a lot of points represnting that a loyalist chapter would never join a traitor one, but instead the CSM's have brought along a renegade splinter group of the chapter at a great expense.


Xeno's: Could be anything from arachnids covered in spikes, inspired by the Cyrx of Warmahordes, a sort of Lizardmen with guns race drawn from the fantasy setting, little green men, a slime race, or whatever else creativity can conjure.

The point is that these two codex's would pair well together because players could either assimilate what they have already into a RT codex, have their armies stand alone as it is, buy into the new xenos race exclusively, or buy into the xenos race and assimilate them into forces they may already have. Options. It's good to have them. So is sleep and food, which I am deprived of and my communication skills are suffering because of it.

Crimson-King2120 wrote:i wouldnt mind seeing individual IG regiment codices so tallarn cadia mordian etc with specialist units for each regiment

The problem with this is that the Guard fights as a diverse force made up of several regiments. Wars are never single regiments, they involve dozens, hundreds, or if the situation warrants it, potentially thousands of regiments. It is like having a Battlesuit codex for the Tau, yes Tau use battlesuits, but they don't simply wander off alone, they fight alongside other elements. Cadians don't do their own thing, they fight alongside other regiments. Honestly all the IG needs is a doctrine system.

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

QFT

You know some of GW has something against Marines fighting in a more reasonable/badass manner (Ex. Raptors, Exorcists, Raven Guard, Salamanders - Reasonable, BT, Carchadons, Space Wolves, Minotaurs - Badass) by those few Ultramarines worshipping writers who just HAVE to cap on every Chapter that isn't a Codex Chapter

Just because we are gigantic and enjoy confirming the kill with chainsaws the size of land raiders doesn't mean you have to get your panties in a bunch

Bring back squats.


Or just retcon the Tyranid background to now have a new allied race.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:My arguments are aimed at the suggestion that one or more Marine Codices should flat out be dropped, not against the consolidation of books. If it's done properly it could work, but I don't trust GW to do it properly.

Heh, well, there is that, yeah.

Furthermore, as I've already said, I don' see the various Chapters being properly represented by a few USRs in a unified Codex.

I'm not suggesting that a couple of thrown together USRs be used, rather I'm suggesting that the exisiting rules wouldn't actually need to take up a lot of space. So the rules wouldn't change.

Ideally, I'd want things to have different costs in the various Marine Codices to make them take different units. For example, make the ranged weapons in Codex: Black Templars more expensive, but provide cheaper or better melee alternatives, pushing them toward melee-centric lists and removing the Razorspam-style army as the one unifying theme.

Regardless of the relative merits or drawbacks of such a system (I've not really though about, so can't really comment), this is still something that could be achieved in just a few pages of differences in rules.

Here's a thought: if GW made the various variant Marine Codices more different from each other, would that be an acceptable fix or would the simple fact that they're Space Marines mean that they "have to go"?

I wouldn't really want to see them be that different. Space Marines are still Space Marines, after all. Believe me when I say that I have no beef with Marines when I suggest this system. I love Marines - always have done. But, for me, this system would prove far superior, as we'd see much more frequent updates for all of the unique chapters, and you could have even more loyalist unique chapters represented.

Anyway, that's enough from me on that. De-railing the thread as it is.

King Pariah wrote:You know some of GW has something against Marines fighting in a more reasonable/badass manner (Ex. Raptors, Exorcists, Raven Guard, Salamanders - Reasonable, BT, Carchadons, Space Wolves, Minotaurs - Badass) by those few Ultramarines worshipping writers who just HAVE to cap on every Chapter that isn't a Codex Chapter

You do realise that your list includes the chapter with Warhammer 40,000's most competitive codex, as well as the chapter of the most competitive Codex: Space Marine build, yes?

English Assassin wrote:

King Pariah wrote:You know some of GW has something against Marines fighting in a more reasonable/badass manner (Ex. Raptors, Exorcists, Raven Guard, Salamanders - Reasonable, BT, Carchadons, Space Wolves, Minotaurs - Badass) by those few Ultramarines worshipping writers who just HAVE to cap on every Chapter that isn't a Codex Chapter

You do realise that your list includes the chapter with Warhammer 40,000's most competitive codex, as well as the chapter of the most competitive Codex: Space Marine build, yes?

May have gotten it mixed up with another but I'm pretty sure fluff-wise the salamanders have a tendency to get capped on.

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Yeah Ultramarines have zero physical control over the guard forces from Ultramar, they may have influence, but they can't actually order them around. Even if they could, they still aren't Ultramarines, and even if the Ultramarines are as good as you make them out to be the Templars would smash them if only through numbers (although they are also better in hand to hand, which helps with marines).

Also, while the Codex Astartes is a good idea the enforced organizational system is terrible, beyond limiting chapters significantly in overall strength it is just a crappy system. So rather than having your forces mixed together you place all your veterans in once company, all of your new recruits in another company, and you have four other companies that are almost all one kind of marine (reserve companies)? At least the IG regiments work as the greater part of a whole, while marines send off individual companies to do their own things with some exceptions (Templars have crusades, Minotaurs frequently fight with their entire chapter (which is probably overkill most of the time but meh), and that chapter that is like the reasonable marines and sends out individual teams or whatever). You rarely hear about the sixth, eighth, and ninth companies working together so much as you do the first, or second company soloing it.

If we're getting a new race a 40k version of a Fantasy army might be nice. Skaven or Lizardmen for example. If not I like the bears idea.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Black Templars fanboy to the rescue:?Why do all the guardsmen matter at all? All the Templars need is superiority in space which, given their speciality and fleet size, doesn't seem too unlikely to achieve.

As for the "incomplete" training, source on that please. Countrary to popular perception, Black Templars don't just run up to the enemy and smash them; C:BT (page 9) lists Drop Pod Assaults and Armoured Spearheads as the Black Templars preferred forms of engagement. If you refer to the way the Templars train their neophytes, "different" is not a synonym of "inferior".

Buttons wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Yeah Ultramarines have zero physical control over the guard forces from Ultramar, they may have influence, but they can't actually order them around. Even if they could, they still aren't Ultramarines, and even if the Ultramarines are as good as you make them out to be the Templars would smash them if only through numbers (although they are also better in hand to hand, which helps with marines).

Im pretty sure that is untrue. I thought that SM chapters and the inquisition can command guard and pdf elements to do what they want. and if a guard unit or pdf that was under the contro/influence had to choose between helping ultras or BT, i dont think it would be much of an issue.

dajobe wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Yeah Ultramarines have zero physical control over the guard forces from Ultramar, they may have influence, but they can't actually order them around. Even if they could, they still aren't Ultramarines, and even if the Ultramarines are as good as you make them out to be the Templars would smash them if only through numbers (although they are also better in hand to hand, which helps with marines).

Im pretty sure that is untrue. I thought that SM chapters and the inquisition can command guard and pdf elements to do what they want. and if a guard unit or pdf that was under the contro/influence had to choose between helping ultras or BT, i dont think it would be much of an issue.

Inquisition can do whatever the hell they want, astartes are significantly more controlled. Either way, the supporting PDF and guard aren't ultramarines. If the battle was the Templars vs. Ultramar than I would bet on Ultramar, but against a single chapter, the Templars have a massive numerical advantage.

No. The Big I can but marines rely on IG handing there command over to them due to their experience.

Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

Speaking of off topic... take the hate to tells....

Once again fix broken codexs and then add Renegades Codex.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

It doesn't matter whether the UM can control the PDFs, because they aren't Ultramarines. Now, I am not discounting the Ultramarines, but a single Ultramarines is not the equal of six Templars, and in a fight that is just UM vs. BTs the BTs will win.

Except that this particular event of Fisty-cuffs was never even implied to occur on Ultramar. The Ultramarines would be killed by the Templars in a straight up fleet-to-fleet battle and on the ground. With the PDF, I'll admit defeat.

Back On topic, What does a Barghesi look like?

Swamp thing meets 70's aliens. But they're a typical "WHOA IT"S AN ALIEN oh but it's humanoid" race. I think that a plant race (as a few others have mentioned) would be interesting but strange to say the least. Especially if it has no current fluff. At least it'd attract the hippy crowd somewhat?

The Crusader wrote:Except that this particular event of Fisty-cuffs was never even implied to occur on Ultramar. The Ultramarines would be killed by the Templars in a straight up fleet-to-fleet battle and on the ground. With the PDF, I'll admit defeat.

Back On topic, What does a Barghesi look like?

If you've ever seen the Yahg from Mass Effect, I would imagine something like that. Or http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=155910.0

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

The Black Templars is the strongest force in the Imperium when all gathered in one place. This is a cannonical fact.

Now, now, back on topic.

insaniak wrote:Rather than a single, stand-alone codex, I'd like to see a 'Codex: Xenos' ... Something akin to the Eye of Terror or Armageddon codexes, with a bunch of mini-lists for various different alien races. They don't have to be particularly comprehensive... just a small fluff blurb describing each race and its goals, and a list with half a dozen units ala the original Necron release.

Allows a whole bunch of variety into the game for campaigns and scenario games and, and would give GW the chance to see what will float out there in gaming land before committing to a full release, as they did with Necrons.

This! I want to see the Hrud and Tallarn dog soldiers.

And Ad Mech is really the only major faction in the fluff that isn't represented even though that have a huge and varied militant force.

Melcavuk wrote:Codex Renegades: Cultists, Mutants, Mercenaries, Pirates, Rogue AI etc. A nice mix codex that can be used to represent anything from machine cult to genestealer cult to pirate warband.

Codex Xenos: A list of combinations of a variety of subxenos with generic stats that could be used to represent dozens of different species, with some cool unique tech and useful special abilities.

There were some rules in WD a while back which allowed a player to design his or her own Xenos, both Creatures and Fauna.

*Finds folder* By John Shaffer and Ty Finocchiaro, it was copyrighted in 2004.

Genestealer cults wouldn't be to bad of an idea. At least Tyranids would get an allied force.

I also put in votes for Squats and Angry Marines

Some of the lesser known Marine codexes might be nice.

Or the Hrud. They get a good mention in 3rd, small mention in 4th, then they don't really get heard of again. Bring out Codex: Hrud

Necronboy wrote:Genestealer cults wouldn't be to bad of an idea. At least Tyranids would get an allied force.

Even if it doesn't warrant a full codex FW or something should make an army list. They already made a Drop Troop, IG Renegade, and Siege Regiment army list.

Hrud or exodites, both look awesome, failing that, it would be nice to update what we already have or redo LatD

I'd like to see the return of the Squat!

People have been talking alot about which races appeared in which edition, but which ones disappeared in which edition?

I know that the Squat disappeared, but what else?

what about an army of cyborgs and mutants created by a man with a burning pasion to conqure the imperium, be crowend the new emperor and lead humanaty into a golden age (or total enialation) and continue the great crusads his way. And mabye the ratlings and Orgns are just some of his erly work the Imperial Gaurd have explotied. with the new allies rule the Ratlings and Orgns could fight on the side of both there foster perents (IG) or there creator

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

The Black Templars is the strongest force in the Imperium when all gathered in one place. This is a cannonical fact.

No, no it is't.

You mean to say that 6 to 10,000 Space Marines is more powerful than the whole Imperial Guard and Navy gathered together? LOL.

Again, too big for britches. Like I said.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azeroth wrote:I'd like to see the return of the Squat!

People have been talking alot about which races appeared in which edition, but which ones disappeared in which edition?

I know that the Squat disappeared, but what else?

Some other minor ones. Zoats, Slaan/Slann, Beastmen. Most everything that disappeared disappeared between Rogue Trader and 2E when they re-imagined the fluff and consolidated all of the ideas.

Dude, you could be just a little less patronising when you reply. I agree with what you're saying completely.

Certainly, we're one of the most powerful Marine chapters. Also contrary to what you keep on saying, we use some of the tactics as most other Chapters such as Armoured Spearheads and Drop pod assaults. Just because we don't assassinate the enemy leader doesn't necessarily mean that we automatically are inferior tacticians. We are the Line-breakers of the Marine Chapters. Just because we can field much larger squads than you that doesn't mean that we act like like Commander Chenkov. All that means is that we do Infantry assaults better. And that we have a much larger fleet than most chapters.

I think Rogue Trader would be fun. I'm dangerously close to putting together a GK Inquisitor list that counts-as this anyway.

What I would hypothetically want:

Update everything to 6th Ed.

Genestealer Cults
Chaos Imperial Guard/Chaos Cults/LatD
Demiurg
Space Skaven in some form.

Another interesting option would be the reintroduction of the Slann.

How about the Thexians? They're briefly mentioned in the 5th Edition Rulebook, are from the Bloodmoons of Thex Prime, and according to the book are normally traders and masters of guile, but when roused to war make extensive use of genetic and cybernetic enhancement.

They are supposedly quite an influential force in the galaxy, so why not?

Also, the Hrud deserve a Codex, they're so frequently mentioned but they have no rules or models.

What we really need, however, is the return of "supplement" Codices, like the old Catachan Codex. They would be books that allow you to take additional small forces with your main army, almost like allies. Some examples could be:

Exodites and Harlequins for Eldar.

Genestealer Cults for Tyranids.

Deathwatch Kill Teams for Space Marines (of all flavours except Grey Knights and Space Wolves).

Adeptus Mechanicus and possibly more Abhumans, Beastmen etc for Imperial Guard.

Adeptus Arbites for Sisters of Battle.

Renegades, mutants, traitor guard and so on for Chaos Space Marines.

Freebootaz for Orks.

Demiurg and others for Tau.

Is it actually possible that there will be a new race? I'd like to see adeptus mechanicus.