Not for the first time I've been left disappointed in the irrational hatred shown towards people who are simply different on Dakka in the last day. A closed thread elsewhere on the forum became very ugly, with people unashamedly expressing their hatred towards furries. Never mind that the topic was merely modelling furry marines, the chain of logic was to assume the people doing it were furries, they were modelling for some sexual purpose, and that it was an expression of sexual perversion.
"I think they [furries] are pedophile-esque creeps." writes one person, "furries and bronies both tend to be creepy and extremely nerdy" writes another. There are a few outright homophobes on Dakka, this disappoints me too but generally they are distinctly in the minority when comparing gay people to paedophiles and are usually quickly addressed. Yet the 'creepy' or 'sexual deviant' aspect was repeated many times on this one thread by quite a few people.
I don't even understand the furry hate. I really don't have an issue with it. But I'm sick of reading on a semi regular basis where people have 'issues' regarding sex and sexuality on Dakka instead of being open minded and tolerant. Is it Dakka, or is it the Warhammer crowd or gamers in general? Because I have considered Warhammer and 40K as Fantasy and SF, yet the various fandoms I have moved in with SF and fantasy are a *lot* more accepting and less judgemental. Is it Dakka? Well I don't regularly read many other gaming forums. Is it gamers? The D&D groups I've met are a lot better, where people of all sorts of unusual inclinations are very free and open. Is it Warhammer then? Because of the younger age group, and the simple fact is that there are a lot of younger more naive people who have simple prejudices based on very limited life experiences and whatever they've been taught at home?
Other people have 'issues' regarding any form of sexual expression, and this isn't just 'think of the kids', but that people should be doing certain things with their Warhammer models and that nudity in general is something vile. I think it reflects very poorly upon our hobby if these attitudes are representative of more than the tiniest minority. As I've described, the general sphere of SF and Fantasy fandoms are far more liberal and accepting than what seems to be reflected on Dakka and possibly wider Warhammer players. The furry hate in particular is frequent enough that it can go unaddressed, unlike say racism/homophobia, to the point where some people are very free and unashamed about expressing their hatred. People making such comments will probably not understand or 'accuse' me (as though there is any shame in it) of being a furry. My honest response would be that it doesn't interest me as such, but if a girl wanted to wear a tail and whiskers I probably wouldn't object.
But similarly there are threads where people pile on the hate about anything regarding nudity or sex. Off-Topic is a regular for this, why only the other week someone was proud of their contempt for strippers, because anyone taking their clothes off for money is worthy of disgust. Don't respect their individual circumstances or personal opinions. But if we're getting onto religious conservativism, there's a fairly unpleasant streak of that too running through some members. Never mind that it doesn't hurt you and isn't any of your business anyway. There's always the opportunity to get your hate on at people who do anything regarding sex that you don't approve of. Same with the furries, except that it's just seems more widespread. A disappointing and a poor reflection of our community IMO, especially in light of better communities that aren't so different from our own. I don't know why the acceptance and tolerance I've seen in fandoms elsewhere, is so lacking in a greater number of people here that those others.
If i had to give an incredibly simplified reason.
Warhammer/Wargaming already has a stigma associated with it. Anyone will find a reason to pick it aparat(AKA, SOme people think the Deamons in 40k make it demonic) But is it an accepted form of entertainment. But people feel uncomfortable that they share a hobby with freaks and people from the outside would use for a reason to break wargaming down more.
In essence people think "The furries and bronies are making us look bad"
If you're ashamed of DakkaDakka behavior regarding this subject, why are you creating another thread about this subject? It's going to end the exact same way as the last one (but it might be locked a few pages earlier).
On the point of nudity in armies I personally draw the line at Soul Grinders with massive phallic symbols strapped to the front. That's more because it's childish rather than that the nudity is offensive.
With regards to furries I have a friend who is quote open about his disdain (to put it lightly) for both bronies and furries. I have another friend who has admitted to both of us that he is really into the furry scene. The two are best friends. I honestly don't get it, it's like saying you hate gay stuff then slapping your friend on the arse.
I think apathy would be the majority's feelings on the matter, and apathetic people don't feel the need to comment on such matters. So you are left with those that are passionately for or against. For something as niche as furries you will not find that many who are for, and any form of sexual deviancy (it does deviate from the norm so the description is valid) will bring quite a few people against, for the reason you noted above, religious conservativism which does tend to preach intolerance.
Im going to ignore your misuse of the word homophobe in the second paragraph.
Did you ever consider people's feelings about the subject are not just restricted to the 40k world and that much of common society would feel the exact same way about the subject in similar proportions?
Seriously, DakkaDakka is not some kind of standard for the world. Also, making a thread about it certainly wont make it better.
LoneLictor wrote:If you're ashamed of DakkaDakka behavior regarding this subject, why are you creating another thread about this subject? It's going to end the exact same way as the last one (but it might be locked a few pages earlier).
He has the right to express his opinion before it does. And it doesn't have to, but probably will end in such a manner.
I think the hate stems from "______" being different. Insert whatever the rage is over in the "_".
Some people can't see outside of the box, or more specificly, outside of their box. Growing up in fly
over America, with LOTS of people who are so affraid of change they'd rather attack it then try to learn
to tolerate or accept it, was hard. Just because someone likes to dress up as a furry animal and get freaky
doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly start doing it. As long as what they're doing doesn't hurt me or my family,
go nuts!
Hell, I bet Frazz would jump on board if he could find a Weiner dog costume that fit....
LoneLictor wrote:If you're ashamed of DakkaDakka behavior regarding this subject, why are you creating another thread about this subject? It's going to end the exact same way as the last one (but it might be locked a few pages earlier).
He has the right to express his opinion before it does.
And I have the right to express my opinion about this thread too. I'm not asking the mods to shut this down or tried to get him arrested for hate speech; I'm merely pointing out what's going to happen to this thread. Mr Treesong is just posting this because the flame war got locked, but he still wants to tell the people he disagrees with how horrible they are. If he wanted intelligent conversation, he would've posted this thread off the forum that he said is incapable of it.
Comes down to the hierarchy of nerds sadly, people feel that since some folk look down on them for their hobbies they should make up for it by looking down on others.
LoneLictor wrote:If you're ashamed of DakkaDakka behavior regarding this subject, why are you creating another thread about this subject? It's going to end the exact same way as the last one (but it might be locked a few pages earlier).
He has the right to express his opinion before it does.
And I have the right to express my opinion about this thread too. I'm not asking the mods to shut this down or tried to get him arrested for hate speech; I'm merely pointing out what's going to happen to this thread. Mr Treesong is just posting this because the flame war got locked, but he still wants to tell the people he disagrees with how horrible they are. If he wanted intelligent conversation, he would've posted this thread off the forum that he said is incapable of it.
I hope you didn't take what I said as me saying your opinion didn't matter! I was just expressing why I thought he created it. Please, feel however you would like!
Corpsesarefun wrote:Comes down to the hierarchy of nerds sadly, people feel that since some folk look down on them for their hobbies they should make up for it by looking down on others.
Pretty much this^
Furries are seen as a socially acceptable (even cool) group to hate.
Personally I think dressing in a furry suit is a bit silly, I imagine that after a few minutes of “activities” you would be sweating buckets and have BO like old gym socks. Also I don’t know how the heck you would wash one of those things. I can't imagine that you could take it to the dry cleaners.
Darn, cant find the offending thread, Could do with a good laugh. Link Anyone?
People can do whatever they like with their Willies, Tuppences and Bums. I mean sure it's not 'Normal' as most people dont have the Gay gene or whatever but Gotta just leave them to it. I dont have those needs hardwired into my brain so i find it Odd and even Repulsive, I'm man enough to admit that.
Would i try and show them 'the error of their ways'? No. Thats Just being a Meddling Bumhole.
Perkustin wrote:Darn, cant find the offending thread, Could do with a good laugh. Link Anyone?
People can do whatever they like with their Willies, Tuppences and Bums. I mean sure it's not 'Normal' as most people dont have the Gay gene or whatever but Gotta just leave them to it. I dont have those needs hardwired into my brain so i find it Odd and even Repulsive, I'm man enough to admit that.
Would i try and show them 'the error of their ways'? No. Thats Just being a Meddling Bumhole.
LoneLictor wrote:And I have the right to express my opinion about this thread too. I'm not asking the mods to shut this down or tried to get him arrested for hate speech; I'm merely pointing out what's going to happen to this thread. Mr Treesong is just posting this because the flame war got locked, but he still wants to tell the people he disagrees with how horrible they are. If he wanted intelligent conversation, he would've posted this thread off the forum that he said is incapable of it.
The thread was about MLP and furry miniatures, in which hatred of furries was expressed by some which derailed the original topic. While that thread and others have pushed me to write this one, this thread is about discussing that hatred and other forms of prejudice directed at various people for their orientations or fetishes, and comparisons to other fandoms that I've been involved with. It's not actually the same thread at all. If I've posted this off the forum, not only would it make any debate with members impossible, but likely I would have had criticism that I was just bashing Dakka elsewhere becaus I didn't want to bring it up here. I've not linked to the other thread, I've not named the source of the few quotes, because this is different and broader to that other thread, not a continuation of it.
Blacksails wrote:Im going to ignore your misuse of the word homophobe in the second paragraph.
No I used it correctly. There are a few people who are very aggressively anti-gay but they are quickly countered by others. In comparison, the furry-hate seems to be a little more free, was the point I was making. Neithe seem acceptable, they are both based in a pretty irrational disgust, on a matter that isn't anyone's business other than the people involved.
My issue with furries and bronies and the like is that I don't think this is the place for it.
Male, female, gay, straight, transsexual, etc: I could care less. But whatever it is, don't throw it in my face all the time. I don't post here about what I did with my wife last night. It would be nice to be afforded the same respect.
This is a wargaming forum primarily, and a gaming forum secondarily. It's not sex chat, it's not fetishland, it's not BME. There are other forums for that stuff. I'm sure there are bronie fan sites that would be more than happy to see an influx of members.
Why would you limit conversations like that though? Surely if the conversation obeys dakka rules (no flaming, pg-13 and whatnot) and it's in the correct section then what's wrong with it?
Also it is worth mentioning that mock-outrage that you/someone is getting negative attention is sort of of silly when the activity you are engaging in is intended to attract attention.
You can't expect 100% positive response to anything you do or say in this world under the best of circumstances.
As what you are doing or saying or presenting moves further and further from societal norms or the norms of a given subgoup or community the liklihood and frequency of negative reaction will also increase.
Bottom line: If you don't want attention then don't attract it, and if you insist then accept that it all wont be positive and deal with it.
Melissia wrote:I don't really hate the "furry fandom", so much as I tend to ignore that they exist in the first place.
It's not my thing, and it's none of my business.
I agree completely with this. Sure Ill poke fun at the bronies and furries, but when it comes down to it, it doesnt affect me in the least, and I really dont care how someone gets their jollies off. Its those very same reason I dont see what the big deal is with someone being gay or transgendered. It doesnt affect my life, or my families life or ANYTHING outside of me now knowing about it. And I can handle knowing about it
Redbeard wrote:My issue with furries and bronies and the like is that I don't think this is the place for it.
Male, female, gay, straight, transsexual, etc: I could care less. But whatever it is, don't throw it in my face all the time. I don't post here about what I did with my wife last night. It would be nice to be afforded the same respect.
This is a wargaming forum primarily, and a gaming forum secondarily. It's not sex chat, it's not fetishland, it's not BME. There are other forums for that stuff. I'm sure there are bronie fan sites that would be more than happy to see an influx of members.
And this is why I like Redbeard's posts.
It's fine and dandy to be proud of who you are; but this is a family friendly website intended primarily for wargaming.
Off-topic is where you would be able to discuss these kinds of things but at the same time...
What in the world is the point of bringing it up here on Dakka?
I'm pretty sure that posting about how you like to dress up in a fox costume and dance with another fox isn't going to make you come across as a badass/hardcore type.
hotsauceman1 wrote: (AKA, SOme people think the Deamons in 40k make it demonic)
It doesn't?
*Quickly hides the sheeps blood and the sacrificial dagger.*
*Ungags the virgin in the back, lets her run away*
Melissia wrote:I don't really hate the "furry fandom", so much as I tend to ignore that they exist in the first place.
It's not my thing, and it's none of my business.
Pretty much this, with a bit extra; I agree with redbeard, don't shove it in my face, but that's my choice in not clicking on the thread in the first place. If you have one thread for Furry Mini's, fine and dandy, I don't care. If there starts to be 20 Furry Pictures in a Non-Furry thread, we have a problem....
KingCracker wrote:No that wouldn't but bashing them and pretending to be a hardass does
Oh okay.
Honestly though?
I don't see why there's a perception that this is some widespread issue conspired by the majority of Dakka.
If you see something which looks as though it's inflammatory, even aimed at furries or bronies--then report it as such.
But do bear in mind that in some cases, you should also be reporting the bronies/furries for dragging a topic off course.
Youve been here long enough to know this thread is pretty much a yearly thread. X upsets me, I complain, others argue about it, we all hold hands in the end
And WTF happened to the font on the overall site?!? Everything is tiny all a sudden
I went to the Comic-Con about 12 years ago with a few pals of mine. There was a furry pannel/lecture one of the days and I was like, "Dude, we have to go check this out." My friends didn't really know what furries were. They had an idea because the anime kids were wearing the ears and tails. I think I had just seen an article in Vice about furry partys where they wear the full suits and rub on each other. So I told them about that and a couple of them went with me to check it out. Honestly I wanted to see if there were any hot furry girls hanging out.
We took our seats in a small room with a bunch of hairy overweight middle aged dudes. A lot of them were wearing random animal pelts, kind of like Spacewolves (no offence.) The guys on the panel were droning on about the state of furry fandom and comics. Then this guy in a full bunny suit walked in and sat down in front of us. I looked at my friends and one of them had a look of total absolute horror on his face. My other friend and myself just started laughing uncontrollably at our shocked friend. He got up and ran out of the room and we followed laughing.
Once we got out of the room we must have laughed for 15 minutes straight. The guy in the bunny costume was funny, but the shock experienced by our friend was what we were really laughing at. Some people are just creeped out by grown men in furry animal costumes. Who ever said the world is perfect?
As long as there is no hardcore furry action happening on this fine family friendly website I could not care less. You like to dress in fur? That's cool, I like to spend way to much money to purchase unpainted plastic and metal figures and then spend way too much time painting them. Sometimes I go to a stinky FLGS to play games with the other nerds. We all have our 'weird' hobbies.
Let's all be our own best friends and just get along
Slarg232 wrote:Hell, I watch MiP and have NEVER considered myself a Brony.....
MIP? Is that 'Men In Ponies'? Seems kind of appropriate...
Back on topic, my brother-in-law has recently expressed some furry tendencies and it hasn't altered my opinion of him one iota, he's entitled to his kinks and fetishes, as i am to mine.
Bronies are male fans. Female fans are called Pegasisters. Which is hilarious.
I have no problem with furries. I like manga girls with kitty ears and tails, I think they're cute, although I draw the line at furry pron. Same with MLP. Heck, I love Transformers, but that doesn't make me a paedophile.
There seems to be a lot of assumption going on that furry=sexual furry, and that brony=sexual furry. Some people are just into media that contains anthropomorphic animals, no sexual tension required. I mean, I love wargaming, and RP, but I don't have sexual associations with it. I don't like Elves because I want to bang them.
Basically, there is a tendency to write off a fandom as being entirely motivated by sexual impulses when you don't like, or don't understand that fandom. Those who were mocked for their hobbies in schools no doubt had the word virgin thrown at them - the same thing is happening when people call out fans of furry things as sexual deviants.
Now, personally, I detest anthropomorphic animals. I don't know why, but they wind me up. I don't begrudge others enjoying them, though, and I do know this - most of them don't want to stick it inside a rabbit. This is an assumption made by those who are all too ready to hate them.
Because history has shown if there's one thing humans just can't do that well, it's "get along with each other".
Sure, small groups might band together for mutual protection, but sure as hell, some other group who have done a similar thing are going to declare you "NOT the people" and get medieval on your kiesters.
CT GAMER wrote:Bottom line: If you don't want attention then don't attract it, and if you insist then accept that it all wont be positive and deal with it.
Well that's worth living by. If people are different, don't preach tolerance, tell them to keep their heads down. If by "it all won't be positive" you mean that people need to accept that entirely unprovoked they'll be called perverts and paedophiles I don't agree.
Kanluwen wrote:
Redbeard wrote:My issue with furries and bronies and the like is that I don't think this is the place for it.
Male, female, gay, straight, transsexual, etc: I could care less. But whatever it is, don't throw it in my face all the time. I don't post here about what I did with my wife last night. It would be nice to be afforded the same respect.
This is a wargaming forum primarily, and a gaming forum secondarily. It's not sex chat, it's not fetishland, it's not BME. There are other forums for that stuff. I'm sure there are bronie fan sites that would be more than happy to see an influx of members.
And this is why I like Redbeard's posts.
It's fine and dandy to be proud of who you are; but this is a family friendly website intended primarily for wargaming.
Off-topic is where you would be able to discuss these kinds of things but at the same time...
What in the world is the point of bringing it up here on Dakka?
Why do people assume that things relating to furries means sex-chat? For example, in the thread I was reading, it was merely about MLP marines and people making marines with parts of animals. There was no sexual content. Yet a group of people went into the thread shouting about sexual deviance and how furries are paedophiles. Even when the topic wasn't about furry-fetish, there were people insisting that it still was and were determined to derail it by insisting this is what the topic was *really* about. Because making models that use parts of animals, and normal figures like marines, has to be an expression of the fetishism, it has to be sexual (why??) and this is very bad. There wasn't an explanation for why it was so bad beyond it being perverted, and all the accusations of wanting to rub people's faces in it were nonsense, the sexual aspect of furryism didn't even come into it until some haters started demanding that it was all the same thing and crying about how perverted and dangerous it all was. So who is at fault here, the people who hate things related to furryism, or the furries, if there were even any on the thread?
So yeah, when someone insists on giving a graphic account of their sex life in almost any circumstances, then sure, they should be pulled up on it because this isn't really the place. But that isn't what was happening in this case or others. Apparently someone even suggesting something that could be related back to furryism warrants a huge attack. This is the equivalent of someone mentioning they've made their RPG character gay and a heap of people going crazy about how they are having graphic gay sex pushed in their faces. I mean whaaa..?
This is a game in which GW make figures of young women in fetish gear being herded around by an armoured woman with a whip. PG-13 indeed. But someone does a head swap on a marine, and suddenly it's all wrong because that means the person doing it must be a furry and they are disgusting. Hmmm...
Anyone comparing grown ups dressing as cat people to have sex to paedophilia should be beaten about the face with half a brick in a sock. Using that comparison for online hyperbole is a callous attention grab.
That said, dressing as an anthropomorphic cat/fox/rabbit to have sex is fairly outside the norm and people reacting with aversion or bemusement to it should be expected, especially in a forum where the average user would be an early 20s white male.
These people are choosing to go to a public forum and present themselves a certain way. That is a conscious choice, noone is outing them.
Everything we do as people is judged and reacted to by others. We aren't talking about skin color, race, or sexual orientation here, we are talking about people who like cartoons and choose to aggressively express itI.
I don't think anyone is calling for gas chambers and lynchings, so maybe ease up with the "persecution/victim" thing...
This topic is Akin to those who use fashion or unusual hairstyles or similar to attract attention to themselves. If I grow a two foot high purple Mohawk and then go public places it WILL attract attention and unless I am a moron I can undestand the role I play in this and the fact that I know exactly how a certain percentage will react before I even do it.
Pony-speak and mlp avatars and so forth act the same way. You are choosing to draw attention to yourself. Take some personal responsibility and don't play the victim card...
to answer the op, its just misguided, over vocal fools on the internet who have heard from a source that X is bad and you should hate it. many of the people who hate MLP have never even watched it for Christ’s sake same goes for furries. I have no problem with them and I’m even friends with two of them and despite thinking anthropomorphic animals are cool they are the same as you or me, just like bronies. I know three personally (I myself am one) and other than the fact we watch a show about ponies there is nothing different about us from the rest of our social group.
in short, haters gonna hate so its best to let them have their little rant and ignore them as there is a good chance they have no real idea of what their talking about.
I'm fine with furries. I have no issues with them.
It's the furries I have trouble with. You know the type, wearing ears/tail all the time, always talking about furry things, constantly nagging you to check out furry stuff, and tell you about all his creepy-ass furry porn.
This is also my stance on Bronies. Everything in moderation, children.
CT GAMER wrote:Howard try to have some perspective.
These people are choosing to go to a public forum and present themselves a certain way. That is a conscious choice, noone is outing them.
Everything we do as people is judged and reacted to by others. We aren't talking about skin color, race, or sexual orientation here, we are talking about people who like cartoons and choose to aggressively express itI.
I don't think anyone is calling for gas chambers and lynchings, so maybe ease up with the "persecution/victim" thing...
This topic is Akin to those who use fashion or unusual hairstyles or similar to attract attention to themselves. If I grow a two foot high purple Mohawk and then go public places it WILL attract attention and unless I am a moron I can undestand the role I play in this and the fact that I know exactly how a certain percentage will react before I even do it.
Pony-speak and mlp avatars and so forth act the same way. You are choosing to draw attention to yourself. Take some personal responsibility and don't play the victim card...
Perspective....
If anyone likes tanks, crams in as many tanks as possible in the army, paint them to excellent standard, and shows them off in a thread, i doubt anyone here would lift an eybrow.
Look at all the picture-filled threads with more or less exellently pained and/or converted miniatures.
Do you really claim that those are not there to attract attention to themselves, or rather, to their work?
Do you really mean that simple headswaps, anthro-style, is more "in your face" than that?
And as for WH40K and Fantasy, especially 40K has, even since the original Rogue Trader (40K 1'st Edition) thrived on erotical innuendos.
I mean, Slaanesh? Callidus Assassin? Death Cult Assassins?
.... Again, perspective.
As for why this forum seem to, or do have, more Furry- and Brony-antagonism than other places, i'd say:
"Look at worlds of Warhammer themseves".
What probably started as a joyful, competetive addition of phrases from the worlds, like "Kill the Mutant" has by now gone out of hands, and attracted people who might even be close to thinking that way.
And newcommers has adopted it, without understanding that it was all for fun, originally.
And here comes someone, with Space Marines, not Traitor-/Chaos Marines, but Space Marines, The Emperor's finest, and have made them into mutants.
Some go at it in the usual, originally, and perhaps still, fun way .... but they are also joined by the Furry- and Brony- haters, too ....
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why do people assume that things relating to furries means sex-chat?
Because some of it does, and I've got absolutely no interest in learning about the inner workings of furry culture, certainly not enough to tell the difference between the furries that just want to wear ears&tails and the furries who want to wear ears&tails while having sex. If I wanted to do that, I'd be on a furry discussion board, not a wargaming discussion board.
Get it?
This is a game in which GW make figures of young women in fetish gear being herded around by an armoured woman with a whip. PG-13 indeed. But someone does a head swap on a marine, and suddenly it's all wrong because that means the person doing it must be a furry and they are disgusting. Hmmm...
No. This is a game in which GW makes figures of young women in fetish gear being herded around by an armoured woman with a whip, as part of a miniature wargame, with a story that works within that setting. And when someone does a head-swap on a marine to make him a pony, it's not wrong because the person is a furry, it's wrong because it no longer fits in the established universe for the game. Again, I'd imagine that there are forums dedicated to these people, why do they feel the need to inundate a wargaming forum with it?
Tiina Brown wrote:
Perspective....
If anyone likes tanks, crams in as many tanks as possible in the army, paint them to excellent standard, and shows them off in a thread, i doubt anyone here would lift an eybrow.
Of course not, this is a wargaming forum, it's intended to be about miniatures and the games we play with them.
Do you really mean that simple headswaps, anthro-style, is more "in your face" than that?
Yes, because it doesn't belong here. It isn't part of our game universe.
Redbeard wrote:Yes, because it doesn't belong here. It isn't part of our game universe.
What? That would mean that anything not covered by published background wouldn't belong here. That would mean any conversion done for fun with a sense of humour wouldn't belong here. This is a forum about miniatures and the wargames we play with them, yes, but some people come here just because they like to build and paint miniatures. If they make a miniature that is counter to the fluff in a game they do not play, should they be forbidden from posting it? Or attacked for wanting to share their work with like-minded people? Forgive me for saying, but that seems to be what is coming across here.
KingCracker wrote: Sure Ill poke fun at the bronies and furries, but when it comes down to it, it doesnt affect me in the least, and I really dont care how someone gets their jollies off.
Exactly this. No one in my gaming group is a bronie marine player. I'll never play in a tournament, so I won't bump into one that way. It doesn't affect me AT ALL, nor would it affect 99% of the people out there.
Why on earth would you let yourself get worked up over it?
Redbeard wrote:My issue with furries and bronies and the like is that I don't think this is the place for it.
Male, female, gay, straight, transsexual, etc: I could care less. But whatever it is, don't throw it in my face all the time. I don't post here about what I did with my wife last night. It would be nice to be afforded the same respect.
This is a wargaming forum primarily, and a gaming forum secondarily. It's not sex chat, it's not fetishland, it's not BME. There are other forums for that stuff. I'm sure there are bronie fan sites that would be more than happy to see an influx of members.
This, a thousand times, this. Some people think their proclivities make them special so they feel the need to throw it out there as often as possible. Especially when it's something edgy and new. They let it define them as a person, which is sad.
I just hate it when bronies and furries try to change something from Warhammer 40k to fit their build, Bronies should play Bretonnian armies in fantasy and Furries should play either Skaven or Beastmen.
Tiina yes indeed everything we do in a public forum or setting is meant to attract attention or a reaction.
And context and norms/ expectations of any given community/group/audience will shape that reaction and/or the nature of that attention.
When I was school age I ran with the nerd/goth/skater subgroups in my school. I wore things and did things to my hair and listened to music that attracted attention (usually negative) from those outside our subgroup. But then we knew and expected that and in fact enjoyed that reaction on some level. It would be pretty silly to think we wouldn't get attention and reaction from those we were trying to set ourselves apart from.
My argument here isn't a justification for what others might do or say to a bronie, simply pointing out that the bronies are choosing to come into a setting/community with established norms and expectations in regards to gaming, modeling, etc.
To then act shocked, surprised that you received a reaction from others is disingenuous.
The appropriateness of other people's reactions and the presence of a strong reaction of one kind or another are separate things.
When you knowingly do things that buck the status quo of a given community/setting you can't act surprised when you get a reaction just because it isn't the one you wanted...
Someone said it already, but apparently not everyone got it - just talking about MLP, making references to it in an army or modeling miniatures as anthropomorphic animals does NOT equate to blatantly propagating kinky sex.
And, by the way, the argument about "it doesn't fit the setting" would also apply to a lot of awesome conversions, such as Star Wars themed 40k armies - you don't see flamewars of this magnitude over THAT.
Witzkatz wrote:Someone said it already, but apparently not everyone got it - just talking about MLP, making references to it in an army or modeling miniatures as anthropomorphic animals does NOT equate to blatantly propagating kinky sex.
And, by the way, the argument about "it doesn't fit the setting" would also apply to a lot of awesome conversions, such as Star Wars themed40k armies - you don't see flamewars of this magnitude over THAT.
Our shields can't repel flamewars of this magnitude...
Chowderhead wrote:I'm fine with furries. I have no issues with them.
It's the furries I have trouble with. You know the type, wearing ears/tail all the time, always talking about furry things, constantly nagging you to check out furry stuff, and tell you about all his creepy-ass furry porn.
This is also my stance on Bronies. Everything in moderation, children.
I would have to agree with this. people who push stuff into your face all the time get really annoying. I mean I do publically talk about MLP but only with other bronies as if i know that people have no interest in a topic then I wont bother talking about it. like you said, everything in moderation
As I already stated the further you move from what is the expected/accepted norm of a given community the greater the potential for an increasingly stronger reaction positive or negative.
Star wars is a sci-fi setting with aliens and robots in space. It is also revered in general by those that might war-game, etc.
A reference to it here is not much of a move away from the normal focus or likes of the community, thus you wouldn't expect as strong of a reaction as you might get when someone turns marines into " cute" ponies which are much further removed from the core focus and group expectation then star wars.
Thus a star wars conversion is typically seen as a form of reverence and mixing of two beloved things while a mlp conversion has far more potential to be construed as satire/mockery of what the community holds dear, especially when you are doing it I their house.
I would assume there are bronie/mlp message boards and forums out there? I imagine that you would get a far larger ratio of positive reaction to mlp-40k mixing in those communities than here. Context, setting and norms once again...
kronk wrote:Mixing genres get people all kinds of pissed off. Case in point:
Havent had a lol like that in a while, cheers.
What i find a bit strange is that the thread that started it was merely about putting Animal heads on marines, according to H.A.T it wasnt even specifically about 'Furry Marines'. So i can see why he was shocked, the modeller wasnt thrusting their sexual Proclivities in our faces. It's odd as we've all seen the epicness that is the Emperor's Lizards, there was no furry hate on that thread.
Sort of echoing CTGamer's point from earlier but if it's just a matter of liking a show do you really need to change your avatar, repost memes, identify as a "bronie" and as part of the group of "bronies", spread "friendship" around (i.e., feud with people who don't like the show), and start threads about how all of this shouldn't annoy other people?
Thus a star wars conversion is typically seen as a form of reverence and mixing of two beloved things while a mlp conversion has far more potential to be construed as satire/mockery of what the community holds dear, especially when you are doing it I their house.
"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."
CT GAMER wrote:Thus a star wars conversion is typically seen as a form of reverence and mixing of two beloved things while a mlp conversion has far more potential to be construed as satire/mockery of what the community holds dear, especially when you are doing it I their house.
I would assume there are bronie/mlp message boards and forums out there? I imagine that you would get a far larger ratio of positive reaction to mlp-40k mixing in those communities than here. Context, setting and norms once again...
Is that logic that surprising or hard to follow?
Yeah ... so one thing is concidered reverence and the other one ridicule?
That is plain prejudice.
It's common though, so you are probably in very good company there.
But.
You should consider why they the are here, in this house.
Do you think they are here just to mess things up?
No, they are of course here because they enjoy Wargaming and/or miniature modelling as well.
Would you then say that this house is not for them?
Ah, i know, that "does it fit the rules?"
Do a Terminator with Cyclone missile launcher and Assault cannon fit the rules?
Do a Space Marine with Hand Flamer fit the rules?
Do a Space marine with Shuriken Catapult fit the rules?
No.
However, anyone with those would at worst get a reminder "you know you can't use those in officcial games, right?"
Also, from what i have read on other replies here, those who came with the negative posts went far further and even claimed that furries and bronies are pedophiles ...
Would even you say that that is proper course of conduct?
I don't think you would.
Manchu wrote:Sort of echoing CTGamer's point from earlier but if it's just a matter of liking a show do you really need to change your avatar, repost memes, identify as a "bronie" and as part of the group of "bronies", spread "friendship" around (i.e., feud with people who don't like the show), and start threads about how all of this shouldn't annoy other people?
Except the haters turned out when none of those things happened, no avatars, no memes, no sexual talk, no mention of dressing up. As I said, it's not clear that there were any self-identified furries on the thread that I noticed, yet people came onto the thread to put the boot in and make association between a furry space marine and furry-fetish, and how creepy it all was.
There was no 'in your face' that people keep trying to describe as a justification for them taking such great issue with furries. So where did the hate come from?
CT GAMER wrote: When you knowingly do things that buck the status quo of a given community/setting you can't act surprised when you get a reaction just because it isn't the one you wanted...
Yet compared to other SF and fantasy communities, there seems to be less tolerance here than I'm used to regarding people who are a bit different or even weird. I wonder why that is.
But apparently being 'in your face' can be something as simple as a head swap, which makes me think a lot of the objections based on the inappropriate sexual content are a bit disingenuous because the mere suggestion of furry gives people 'issues' over which they become quite aggressive and nasty. I think some people have a very distorted idea of what 'being in your face' about something actually is. Basically, anything that could be construed as being furry in nature is 'in your face', which simply isn't fair even if there was some underlying issue with furries that make them a menace.
Redbeard wrote:
Do you really mean that simple headswaps, anthro-style, is more "in your face" than that?
Yes, because it doesn't belong here. It isn't part of our game universe.
So basically, things that don't fit the GW approved universe 'don't belong here'. When the hell did this hobby become so restrictive that we have to follow the GW fluff at all times? Ugh, GW corporate must love you. It's just models FFS, doesn't the 'rule or cool' count for anything any more? Can't we do what we like with our own models? No one is forcing you to play these people or their armies, and if the person puts their work online, as anyone is allowed to do on Dakka, you're still not being compelled to look at their non-GW-canonical army. Oh the horror, what of the time I played Battlefleet Gothic with a Borg Cube?
Dude this sia site which has a major portion of it related to 40K which is like a cross between the Space Inquisition and the Soviet army and you wonder that there's less tolerance here?
And when someone does a head-swap on a marine to make him a pony, it's not wrong because the person is a furry, it's wrong because it no longer fits in the established universe for the game.
Yes, because it doesn't belong here. It isn't part of our game universe.
What that is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. What about all the conversions that people have made using storm trooper heads on marines, etc.? Are those wrong? What If I wanted to make a rubiks' cube themed space marine army? Would that be wrong?
Howard A Treesong wrote:There was no 'in your face' that people keep trying to describe as a justification for them taking such great issue with furries. So where did the hate come from?
Not from nowhere. You can't take that thread out of the context of the rest of the internet, where this is a widespread phenomenon as I described it. And, looking at it that way, the thread in question is actually yet another aspect of that phenomenon.
Manchu wrote:Sort of echoing CTGamer's point from earlier but if it's just a matter of liking a show do you really need to change your avatar, repost memes, identify as a "bronie" and as part of the group of "bronies", spread "friendship" around (i.e., feud with people who don't like the show), and start threads about how all of this shouldn't annoy other people?
skepitcalcat.jpg
You mean you shouldn't be claiming you enjoy and otherwise endorse whatever strangeness people invent for themselves and constantly bombard you with in a public setting?
Is this actually a matter of real rage or slight annoyance that gets conveyed over the interwbs megaphone as FUUUUU-? The whole thing seems like a bit of a game to me, with each side fully appraised of the part they're playing.
Howard A Treesong wrote:There was no 'in your face' that people keep trying to describe as a justification for them taking such great issue with furries. So where did the hate come from?
Not from nowhere. You can't take that thread out of the context of the rest of the internet, where this is a widespread phenomenon as I described it. And, looking at it that way, the thread in question is actually yet another aspect of that phenomenon.
Howard A Treesong wrote:There was no 'in your face' that people keep trying to describe as a justification for them taking such great issue with furries. So where did the hate come from?
Not from nowhere. You can't take that thread out of the context of the rest of the internet, where this is a widespread phenomenon as I described it. And, looking at it that way, the thread in question is actually yet another aspect of that phenomenon.
Dakka believes in original sin?
Yes, but that original sin is Horus betraying the Emperor.
Manchu wrote:@biccat: I have no idea what you are talking about.
Original sin is a concept in Christian theology. Basically, men are inherently sinful. Baptism is necessary to absolve humans of their original sin. This is, apparently, why many Christian groups baptize their children at birth, rather than later in life (and really, if you only get one chance to wash away all of your sins, it seems like the priest reading your last rites should be the guy baptising you).
Howard's comment was asking where the hate (in that thread) came from, given that the justification used was not supported by the facts. Your post suggested that the hate didn't come from the thread, but came from "the rest of the internet." That is, furries are born hated/sinful.
Therefore, the "original sin" that the furry thread was guilty of was born on "the rest of the internet," not on Dakka. Furries on Dakka (or in that thread) are not responsible for the sin of their own doing, but rather the sin is borne of their existence as furries. Hence: original sin.
Ahtman wrote:Yes, but that original sin is Horus betraying the Emperor.
biccat wrote:Your post suggested that the hate didn't come from the thread, but came from "the rest of the internet." That is, furries are born hated/sinful.
What a bizarre reading of my post. Howard said that the bronies/furries were not "in your face" about their proclivities in the thread in question. (And, further, a bizarre equivocation: a larger pattern of behavior some how equates to being "born hated/sinful"?) My response was that the the thread itself was an example of being "in-your-face" because it is part of the larger phenomenon that I had already described. It is not at all the mere existence of the bronies on Dakka, or anywhere else, that constitutes the problem (and hence your strange comparison to original sin) but rather the mode of existence: a no less willful for being gleeful sort of colonization.
biccat wrote:Your post suggested that the hate didn't come from the thread, but came from "the rest of the internet." That is, furries are born hated/sinful.
What a bizarre reading of my post. Howard said that the bronies/furries were not "in your face" about their proclivities in the thread in question. (And, further, a bizarre equivocation: a larger pattern of behavior some how equates to being "born hated/sinful"?) My response was that the the thread itself was an example of being "in-your-face" because it is part of the larger phenomenon that I had already described. It is not at all the mere existence of the bronies on Dakka, or anywhere else, that constitutes the problem (and hence your strange comparison to original sin) but rather the mode of existence: a no less willful for being gleeful sort of colonization.
Either you don't understand analogies, or you don't understand the Christian concept of original sin. I'm going to assume the former, since you're somewhat outspoken on Christianity. But I'm not leaving out the latter, for obvious reasons.
Squigsquasher wrote:This is Biccat. He makes no sense.
He can talk about logic, metaphors and analogies all he likes, I know a case of insanity when I see it, and insanity, I respect.
Yeaaah. I read Biccat's latest posts in this thread and they don't really make sense.
I think he was pretty much saying that it doesn't matter what an individual furry on the internet does, he is hated simply because he is a furry.
He likened it to the Christian concept that all of mankind is born sinful, not out of any of these individuals actions but just because they are human.
Squigsquasher wrote:This is Biccat. He makes no sense.
He can talk about logic, metaphors and analogies all he likes, I know a case of insanity when I see it, and insanity, I respect.
Yeaaah. I read Biccat's latest posts in this thread and they don't really make sense.
I think he was pretty much saying that it doesn't matter what an individual furry on the internet does, he is hated simply because he is a furry.
He likened it to the Christian concept that all of mankind is born sinful, not out of any of these individuals actions but just because they are human.
yes, thats actually what he said. I'm shocked people didn't get that. It seems appropriate to post this as a refresher.
LoneLictor wrote:Yeaaah. I read Biccat's latest posts in this thread and they don't really make sense.
I think he was pretty much saying that it doesn't matter what an individual furry on the internet does, he is hated simply because he is a furry.
Well, yes, that is part of what he posted. The part that doesn't make any sense is how what you just posted is comparable to what I originally posted, about how anti-furry sentiment is based on people's encounter with furies beyond a specific thread on Dakka.
Squigsquasher wrote:This is Biccat. He makes no sense.
He can talk about logic, metaphors and analogies all he likes, I know a case of insanity when I see it, and insanity, I respect.
Yeaaah. I read Biccat's latest posts in this thread and they don't really make sense.
I think he was pretty much saying that it doesn't matter what an individual furry on the internet does, he is hated simply because he is a furry.
He likened it to the Christian concept that all of mankind is born sinful, not out of any of these individuals actions but just because they are human.
yes, thats actually what he said. I'm shocked people didn't get that. It seems appropriate to post this as a refresher.
It wasn't a particularly apt analogy and it implies a whole slew of moralistic and ideological concepts that the discussion didn't really need.
People use analogies related to their day to day lives ergo Biccat used a religious analogy and Frazz understood it. It was nothing like dry humour though.
Frazzled wrote:I'm shocked people didn't get that.
Manchu wrote:So perhaps you could explain how it relates to what I said?
Frazzled wrote:I didn't read what you said. [...] I read what he said. What he said was clear.
In order to "get" a comparison, you have to know what thing is being compared with what other thing.
As a reiteration, I think it's silly for furries/bronies to claim they are hated "just because" or "just because they are different." There is a larger pattern of behavior on the internet that underlies specific examples of behavior here on Dakka.
CT GAMER wrote:Thus a star wars conversion is typically seen as a form of reverence and mixing of two beloved things while a mlp conversion has far more potential to be construed as satire/mockery of what the community holds dear, especially when you are doing it I their house.
I would assume there are bronie/mlp message boards and forums out there? I imagine that you would get a far larger ratio of positive reaction to mlp-40k mixing in those communities than here. Context, setting and norms once again...
Is that logic that surprising or hard to follow?
Yeah ... so one thing is concidered reverence and the other one ridicule?
That is plain prejudice.
It's common though, so you are probably in very good company there.
But.
You should consider why they the are here, in this house.
Do you think they are here just to mess things up?
No, they are of course here because they enjoy Wargaming and/or miniature modelling as well.
Would you then say that this house is not for them?
Ah, i know, that "does it fit the rules?"
Do a Terminator with Cyclone missile launcher and Assault cannon fit the rules?
Do a Space Marine with Hand Flamer fit the rules?
Do a Space marine with Shuriken Catapult fit the rules?
No.
However, anyone with those would at worst get a reminder "you know you can't use those in officcial games, right?"
Also, from what i have read on other replies here, those who came with the negative posts went far further and even claimed that furries and bronies are pedophiles ...
Would even you say that that is proper course of conduct?
I don't think you would.
Tiia you need to reread what I have written.
I have purposely not commented on my own thoughts about furries or MLP, etc. Nor have I have I justified any particular behavior or attitude that is in reaction to them.
What I have done is explain why extreme reactions (both positive and negative) might happen given the nature and focus of this community and wargamers and also the behavioral tendencies of people in general and pointed out the part that people who exhibit behaviors in question play in eliciting those reactions.
The specific form these reactions to furries/bronies/etc take must all be evaluated individually by the mods, etc, on a case-by case basis, and usually are.
I still find it disengenuous to ignore the role the bronies themselves play in the reaccurance of conflict here on Dakka...
Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules. If I want to convert my army to be furries, or ponies, or whatever the feth else, I'm going to do it. Then I can post my pictures on dakka and make a thread about it if I want to, and it won't be against the rules. What is* against the rules is intolerant nerds coming in to threads and attacking people based on perceived deviance or abnormality. No one should be bitching about "family friendly" on a website devoted to a game where this is an acceptable form of expression (hint: it's a demon with a belt of skulls and his herald mutilating a human corpse and it's from an official sculpt) and where the heroes of the galaxy not only condone but actually engage in racism, ignorance, torture, and planetary genocide (just to name a few things) on a regular basis. It's a forum. No one is forcing people to click on the MLP marines or Hello Kittycrons thread. It's not "in your face." Users actually have to make a conscious decision to click on the thread and then stick around to post their bigoted views. /rant
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
Precisely, I get the impression that a lot of the "Oh I have no problems with it but it should be in a specialist forum" is really code for "EW! FURRIES ARE ON MY DAKKA!".
Really? People are bringing "bigotry" and "prejudice" into this?
Most of the time, when these "intolerant nerds" are posting in these threads--it's because the individual in question is posting it in such a manner that they want comments and criticism. Criticism presented in an acceptable manner can be any number of things, from "I think your idea is silly and I wouldn't play against it in a serious setting where a painting/conversion competition is also involved" to "I just don't see the value in going through with this".
What is not acceptable criticism is "Your idea is stupid because you like MLP, you freak!". If someone is posting that kind of commentary? Hit the "Alert Moderator" button and call it a day.
With that said:
Many times where these silly ideas are posted it is not in a thread by itself. It's in a thread about "Would you play against X, Y, or Z?" and people talk about it with the express purpose of creating the army to get a reaction like the one they get.
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
If I want to convert my army to be furries, or ponies, or whatever the feth else, I'm going to do it. Then I can post my pictures on dakka and make a thread about it if I want to, and it won't be against the rules.
What is* against the rules is intolerant nerds coming in to threads and attacking people based on perceived deviance or abnormality. No one should be bitching about "family friendly" on a website devoted to a game where this is an acceptable form of expression (hint: it's a demon with a belt of skulls and his herald mutilating a human corpse and it's from an official sculpt) and where the heroes of the galaxy not only condone but actually engage in racism, ignorance, torture, and planetary genocide (just to name a few things) on a regular basis.
It's a forum. No one is forcing people to click on the MLP marines or Hello Kittycrons thread. It's not "in your face." Users actually have to make a conscious decision to click on the thread and then stick around to post their bigoted views. /rant
Unless its about cats, or squirrels of course. That is wrong and an abomination against the Great Wiener Dog.
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
Precisely, I get the impression that a lot of the "Oh I have no problems with it but it should be in a specialist forum" is really code for "EW! FURRIES ARE ON MY DAKKA!".
I think you really need to get a new codebreaking book then.
It's code for "I have no problems with it, but I really think you're just doing it so you can whine about being unfairly targeted later".
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
Precisely, I get the impression that a lot of the "Oh I have no problems with it but it should be in a specialist forum" is really code for "EW! FURRIES ARE ON MY DAKKA!".
I think you really need to get a new codebreaking book then.
It's code for "I have no problems with it, but I really think you're just doing it so you can whine about being unfairly targeted later".
Ah, yes. How could we forget that all furies and bronies are also masochists?
Kanluwen wrote:And then you're surprised you get said reaction?
I have to agree with this. Putting time and money into any army, at least as far as painting and conversion goes, is almost always an attempt to get some reaction and it's not always an attempt to get the same reaction from everyone. A MLP fan might look at an MLP-converted army and say "that is great" and a non-MLP fan could look at it and, with just as much validity, say "that is silly." If the person who converted the army comes back with "well, 40k is pretty darn silly, too" well -- fair play. But this idea of there being some special, protected group of "bronies" who are being unfairly persecuted and need to be accepted for who they really are ... that's a load of gak.
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
If I want to convert my army to be furries, or ponies, or whatever the feth else, I'm going to do it. Then I can post my pictures on dakka and make a thread about it if I want to, and it won't be against the rules.
What is* against the rules is intolerant nerds coming in to threads and attacking people based on perceived deviance or abnormality.
If you stick your neck out in a public space obviously looking for criticism or feedback, then you shouldn't complain when you get said feedback, good or bad. It's like those classic "Should I do Nazi IG?" threads. The answer is "No/never/GTFO troll", or in this case, "I don't like it/this idea makes no sense/GTFO troll".
It's a forum. No one is forcing people to click on the MLP marines or Hello Kittycrons thread. It's not "in your face." Users actually have to make a conscious decision to click on the thread and then stick around to post their bigoted views. /rant
It is in your face though. It shows up in avatars and signatures all over the place.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Doh, ninja'ed by Kan.
Truly they are blameless group of misanthropes that have never annoyed anyone, which is why even in the wild west aka 4chan, it got to the point where using a pony picture was a bannable offense because bronies were posting about MLP on every board whether it was appropriate or not, or trying to make any thread about MLP.
While that time has passed, it has done so only because there are now special rules in place just because of MLP fans. IF 4chan has to make special rules to tell people to stop being annoying, one may want to take notice that not all problems from the group are exterior.
daedalus wrote:It's like those classic "Should I do Nazi IG?" threads.
It is and it isn't. MLP imagery certainly doesn't have the same negative iconic resonance as Nazi imagery. But it is similar insofar as the MLP imagery does stand for something that a certain group of people do not like and, if I may be so bold to reassert as much, have good reasons not to like.
Kanluwen wrote:And then you're surprised you get said reaction?
I have to agree with this. Putting time and money into any army, at least as far as painting and conversion goes, is almost always an attempt to get some reaction and it's not always an attempt to get the same reaction from everyone. A MLP fan might look at an MLP-converted army and say "that is great" and a non-MLP fan could look at it and, with just as much validity, say "that is silly." If the person who converted the army comes back with "well, 40k is pretty darn silly, too" well -- fair play. But this idea of there being some special, protected group of "bronies" who are being unfairly persecuted and need to be accepted for who they really are ... that's a load of gak.
That's news to me. Most of the people I know who convert or paint their armies outside of norms do it for their own pleasure.
And for the record, I think when people ask for c&c they're asking about their skill on conversions and painting, not "Do you think my army looks kewl, lol?"
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
If I want to convert my army to be furries, or ponies, or whatever the feth else, I'm going to do it. Then I can post my pictures on dakka and make a thread about it if I want to, and it won't be against the rules.
What is* against the rules is intolerant nerds coming in to threads and attacking people based on perceived deviance or abnormality.
If you stick your neck out in a public space obviously looking for criticism or feedback, then you shouldn't complain when you get said feedback, good or bad. It's like those classic "Should I do Nazi IG?" threads. The answer is "No/never/GTFO troll", or in this case, "I don't like it/this idea makes no sense/GTFO troll".
It's a forum. No one is forcing people to click on the MLP marines or Hello Kittycrons thread. It's not "in your face." Users actually have to make a conscious decision to click on the thread and then stick around to post their bigoted views. /rant
It is in your face though. It shows up in avatars and signatures all over the place.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Doh, ninja'ed by Kan.
frankly meh. If its a furry thats done well (and I can actually see the pics) then I'll say its done well, or funny. If its sucks and I care, I'll say it sucks.
if people start weirding out, well I can ignore them, or tell them to grow up, or report them if they violate RUle #1 and let the Mods deal with it. Its their job. Its what they do. ITS ALL THEY DOOO!*
[size=7]*Note, other than Alpharius its not all they do. Post Sterno Intervention however, yes its pretty much all Alpharius does. Again, I know. I KNOW![/size]
Ahtman wrote:While that time has passed, it has done so only because there are now special rules in place just because of MLP fans.
This also happened on Dakka, FWIW. We relegated it all to one thread and eventually the MLP fans complied. We never enforced it with regard to P&M projects, however, because starting a P&M Blog is obviously the opposite of turning every other thread into a MLP thread.
daedalus wrote:It's like those classic "Should I do Nazi IG?" threads.
It is and it isn't. MLP imagery certainly doesn't have the same negative iconic resonance as Nazi imagery. But it is similar insofar as the MLP imagery does stand for something that a certain group of people do not like and, if I may be so bold to reassert as much, have good reasons not to like.
Well, okay. That's fair. So it lacks the toxicity of the Nazi imagery, but I meant it in as so far as that you're asking a question that you apparently don't want to hear the answer for, and you probably already know it. Why are you doing it?
KhornePysker wrote:Remember wargaming is full of insecure neckbeards! So they take it out on other subcultures
but on another note, bronies make furries look bad
compare this
to this
now what do you like more?
See this is exactly what I was talking about in my first post, even furries will find reasons to hate other furries (not saying that bronies are furries, there is a furry-brony crossover though).
deathholydeath wrote:That's news to me. Most of the people I know who convert or paint their armies outside of norms do it for their own pleasure.
Perhaps it's an issue of confirmation bias but I never encountered someone who refused to show the army he spent a pile of time on to anyone else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
daedalus wrote:
Manchu wrote:
daedalus wrote:It's like those classic "Should I do Nazi IG?" threads.
It is and it isn't. MLP imagery certainly doesn't have the same negative iconic resonance as Nazi imagery. But it is similar insofar as the MLP imagery does stand for something that a certain group of people do not like and, if I may be so bold to reassert as much, have good reasons not to like.
Well, okay. That's fair. So it lacks the toxicity of the Nazi imagery, but I meant it in as so far as that you're asking a question that you apparently don't want to hear the answer for, and you probably already know it. Why are you doing it?
Sorry, my post was attempting to agree with you while heading off the objection that liking MLP isn't the same as being a Nazi. I think you have a very good point here otherwise.
Manchu wrote:A MLP fan might look at an MLP-converted army and say "that is great" and a non-MLP fan could look at it and, with just as much validity, say "that is silly." If the person who converted the army comes back with "well, 40k is pretty darn silly, too" well -- fair play. But this idea of their being some special, protected group of "bronies" who are being unfairly persecuted and need to be accepted for who they really are ... that's a load of gak.
Who has actually pushed that idea though? We aren't talking about preventing people upsetting furries by saying "I think it's silly" when looking at their army. But a lot of criticism I've seen isn't about the modelling, it's quite personal, aggressive and directed at claims about sexual deviance and the like. It's just attacking furries/bronies, it's not even about the quality of the modelling. Why is that okay? It's quite simple, there are people who dislike things 'furry' don't want it near 'their' hobby, regardless of the actual nature of the discussion under way, or of qualities of the models, art or fluff being discussed.
Merely making a thread where you have some furry marines is not 'in your face'. And people complaining that some people have a MLP in their avatar? Get the feth over it. How is it any more 'in your face' than any other avatar?
As for rationalising away prejudice because furries elsewhere on the internet have a 'reputation', well that is just straight forward prejudice. Tarring everyone with the same brush.
deathholydeath wrote:That's news to me. Most of the people I know who convert or paint their armies outside of norms do it for their own pleasure.
Perhaps it's an issue of confirmation bias but I never encountered someone who refused to show the army he spent a pile of time on to anyone else.
I never said they didn't show it off. I meant that their primary motivation was in doing it for themselves, and not out of some twisted desire to feel persecuted.
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
Precisely, I get the impression that a lot of the "Oh I have no problems with it but it should be in a specialist forum" is really code for "EW! FURRIES ARE ON MY DAKKA!".
I think you really need to get a new codebreaking book then.
It's code for "I have no problems with it, but I really think you're just doing it so you can whine about being unfairly targeted later".
Ah, yes. How could we forget that all furies and bronies are also masochists?
Ah, yes. It's the classic "I can't refute your statement, so I'll make a clever/snappy comeback and hope the person can't articulate an argument which would make me look bad".
There is a huge difference between someone who is genuinely new and excited to share their ideas, and someone who has actively participated in conversations/threads here on Dakka where it is well-known that certain ideas will garner a certain amount of flak.
Howard A Treesong wrote:As for rationalising away prejudice because furries elsewhere on the internet have a 'reputation', well that is just straight forward prejudice. Tarring everyone with the same brush.
First off, you can dismount the cross -- or take the "bronies" off of it anyway. No one is saying personal attacks against actual user will be okay on Dakka. Second, "bronies" self-select into a group based on one thing only: going out of one's way to appear to be a MLP fan to other people. That is the basis of both the identity and the disdain others have for it. People who are annoyed by the extreme, public fandom of MLP find "bronies" annoying. Sounds pretty damn reasonable to me. Calling something a "prejudice" isn't some kind of magic argument.
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
Precisely, I get the impression that a lot of the "Oh I have no problems with it but it should be in a specialist forum" is really code for "EW! FURRIES ARE ON MY DAKKA!".
I think you really need to get a new codebreaking book then.
It's code for "I have no problems with it, but I really think you're just doing it so you can whine about being unfairly targeted later".
Ah, yes. How could we forget that all furies and bronies are also masochists?
Ah, yes. It's the classic "I can't refute your statement, so I'll make a clever/snappy comeback and hope the person can't articulate an argument which would make me look bad".
There is a huge difference between someone who is genuinely new and excited to share their ideas, and someone who has actively participated in conversations/threads here on Dakka where it is well-known that certain ideas will garner a certain amount of flak.
I can't refute your statement, but you can't prove it either.
Bronies well developed need to present themselves as martyrs for some great cause, and the constant need for validation is one of the reasons why threads like this lead to forums having to make special rules for them.
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Merely making a thread where you have some furry marines is not 'in your face'. And people complaining that some people have a MLP in their avatar? Get the feth over it. How is it any more 'in your face' than any other avatar?
The prior argument was that you could avoid it if you wanted. Regardless of if you find it in poor taste or not, you can't avoid seeing it if it's in avatars, or alternatively:
"And people complaining that some people complain that some people have a MLP in their avatar? Get the feth over it."
People on this forum complain about everything. If they can't get the emotional and useless bitching and moaning about GW/FW/BF/Finecast/GK/GK Players/color of the sky/prices out of the way, why try to curb the distaste for a fringe group of people who probably just do it for the attention?
As for rationalising away prejudice because furries elsewhere on the internet have a 'reputation', well that is just straight forward prejudice. Tarring everyone with the same brush.
"I didn't CHOOSE to be a brony. I was BORN THIS WAY!"
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
Precisely, I get the impression that a lot of the "Oh I have no problems with it but it should be in a specialist forum" is really code for "EW! FURRIES ARE ON MY DAKKA!".
I think you really need to get a new codebreaking book then.
It's code for "I have no problems with it, but I really think you're just doing it so you can whine about being unfairly targeted later".
Ah, yes. How could we forget that all furies and bronies are also masochists?
Ah, yes. It's the classic "I can't refute your statement, so I'll make a clever/snappy comeback and hope the person can't articulate an argument which would make me look bad".
There is a huge difference between someone who is genuinely new and excited to share their ideas, and someone who has actively participated in conversations/threads here on Dakka where it is well-known that certain ideas will garner a certain amount of flak.
I can't refute your statement, but you can't prove it either.
So basically, you're just posting in here to post?
deathholydeath wrote:Nothing in the Dakka rules prohibits people from doing conversions that aren't canon. Nothing prohibits people from expressing themselves in any way they want that doesn't break the dakka rules.
Precisely, I get the impression that a lot of the "Oh I have no problems with it but it should be in a specialist forum" is really code for "EW! FURRIES ARE ON MY DAKKA!".
I think you really need to get a new codebreaking book then.
It's code for "I have no problems with it, but I really think you're just doing it so you can whine about being unfairly targeted later".
Ah, yes. How could we forget that all furies and bronies are also masochists?
Ah, yes. It's the classic "I can't refute your statement, so I'll make a clever/snappy comeback and hope the person can't articulate an argument which would make me look bad".
There is a huge difference between someone who is genuinely new and excited to share their ideas, and someone who has actively participated in conversations/threads here on Dakka where it is well-known that certain ideas will garner a certain amount of flak.
I can't refute your statement, but you can't prove it either.
So basically, you're just posting in here to post?
Gotcha.
Right back atcha' buddy. We can do the rhetoric dance all day if you like.
Monster Rain wrote:Am I the only one that sees this as yet another (though extremely meta) brony/furry troll thread?
No sir, you are not.
Yes but Ahtman, judging from your responses here and from the beginning of the MLP thread, you seem to consider the entire subject of furries and My Little Pony to be a troll subject, designed entirely to annoy other people.
So obviously us bronies have been trolling each other for 145 pages in our thread. That's pretty impressive guys!
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Yes but Ahtman, judging from your responses here and from the beginning of the MLP thread, you seem to consider the entire subject of furries and My Little Pony to be a troll subject, designed entirely to annoy other people.
So obviously us bronies have been trolling each other for 145 pages in our thread. That's pretty impressive guys!
Long as you're here though, explain to us the mind of a brony. What makes a brony tick? In real life do you have brony backpacks and lunchboxes? Decoder rings? What about brony shoes? Do you make them special issue, or do you have feet small enough to fit into the ones at the store?
Seriously though, in what other venues do you advertise that you enjoy watching MLP?
Automatically Appended Next Post: For the record, I have decided that you're not doing it intentionally to annoy other people.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Yes but Ahtman, judging from your responses here and from the beginning of the MLP thread, you seem to consider the entire subject of furries and My Little Pony to be a troll subject, designed entirely to annoy other people.
So obviously us bronies have been trolling each other for 145 pages in our thread. That's pretty impressive guys!
Long as you're here though, explain to us the mind of a brony. What makes a brony tick? In real life do you have brony backpacks and lunchboxes? Decoder rings? What about brony shoes? Do you make them special issue, or do you have feet small enough to fit into the ones at the store?
Seriously though, in what other venues do you advertise that you enjoy watching MLP?
Me personally? Not much. I have one t-shirt (http://www.welovefine.com/984-zeppony.html) which I bought because it combined two things I like, MLP and Led Zeppelin. If someone asks about it, then I tell them. I don't force it onto others.
Some of the others from our thread have pony stickers on their army cases and laptops or pony keyrings hanging from cases and bags. Just little things which will identify yourself to other members of the fandom without being too "in your face".
daedalus wrote:For the record, I have decided that you're not doing it intentionally to annoy other people.
I have come to that conclusion as well, which is why A Town Called Malus had to reach back a year to the beginning of (what would become) the MLP containment thread. Apparently not bringing the subject up for almost 11 months and not bothering anyone about it makes you a terribly spiteful person.
daedalus wrote:For the record, I have decided that you're not doing it intentionally to annoy other people.
I have come to that conclusion as well, which is why A Town Called Malus had to reach back a year to the beginning of (what would become) the MLP containment thread. Apparently not bringing the subject up for almost 11 months and not bothering anyone about it makes you a terribly spiteful person.
Well, reading some of your posts in this thread it seemed your opinion hadn't changed. If that isn't the case then I apologise.
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Yes but Ahtman, judging from your responses here and from the beginning of the MLP thread, you seem to consider the entire subject of furries and My Little Pony to be a troll subject, designed entirely to annoy other people.
So obviously us bronies have been trolling each other for 145 pages in our thread. That's pretty impressive guys!
Long as you're here though, explain to us the mind of a brony. What makes a brony tick? In real life do you have brony backpacks and lunchboxes? Decoder rings? What about brony shoes? Do you make them special issue, or do you have feet small enough to fit into the ones at the store?
Seriously though, in what other venues do you advertise that you enjoy watching MLP?
Automatically Appended Next Post: For the record, I have decided that you're not doing it intentionally to annoy other people.
I've got one of the McD ponies hanging from my rear view, and another from each of my Warmachine bags. My phone lock screen is nearly always pony artwork as well. I also frequent the MLP thread on the PP forums.
I'll also admit to trolling some local forums with pony stuff when the locals found out about the pony/brony thing and that I and a few others at the FLGS were into it, but if I wasn't trolling them with the ponies I'd have been trolling them with something else. I'm a horrible admin sometimes...
Howard A Treesong wrote:We aren't talking about preventing people upsetting furries by saying "I think it's silly" when looking at their army. But a lot of criticism I've seen isn't about the modelling, it's quite personal, aggressive and directed at claims about sexual deviance and the like.
This is, in a nutshell, what went wrong with the locked thread mentioned at the start. People were completely overlooking the topic actually under discussion on the assumption that anyone who likes furries (as in anthropomorphised animals) must clearly be a Furry (someone who dresses up as an animal, probably for sexual gratification).
The fact that people seemed so completely incapable of separating the two, even when the difference was explained several times, is disappointing and not a little scary. It's mob mentality at its worst. Fear what is different... whether you actually understand it or not. Or this, for example:
Redbeard wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why do people assume that things relating to furries means sex-chat?
Because some of it does, and I've got absolutely no interest in learning about the inner workings of furry culture, certainly not enough to tell the difference between the furries that just want to wear ears&tails and the furries who want to wear ears&tails while having sex. If I wanted to do that, I'd be on a furry discussion board, not a wargaming discussion board.
...which seems to translate to: I don't actually know what it's all about, I don't want to know what it's all about, but I'm going to assume that it's dirty and wrong and something that shouldn't be on my forum.
And that doesn't seem just a teensy bit irrational to anyone?
insaniak wrote:The fact that people seemed so completely incapable of separating the two, even when the difference was explained several times, is disappointing and not a little scary. It's mob mentality at its worst. Fear what is different... whether you actually understand it or not.
I won't defend Redbeard's comments there as I do not think they are representative of the real situation. It seems to me that the real "battle" is a pitched battle between one group of adult males who have decided to be public promoters of MLP and another group of adult males who have decided to be their nemesis. What is important to realize is that the second group didn't develop after the first but simultaneously with it. The MLP divide is just another in the long line of conflicts the *chan generation has engaged in. There's the circumcised/uncircumcised one, for instance, and the one about people who post images of Boxxy everywhere against the people who hated that. This "brony" deal is really no different than the Boxxy thing. It's not really about people liking something different from you. People like all sorts of things. I reckon there are a fair few people on Dakka that really like the Office for example. So why don't we have to have an "Office fan containment thread" like the "brony" one? And why haven't there been any Dwight Schrute Chaos Lord conversions? It's certainly not because people don't like the Office. It's because they don't try to colonize a website that has absolutely nothing to do with the Office. That is what the "brony"/"brony hater" crowd does (yes, they are really the same problem).
insaniak wrote:The fact that people seemed so completely incapable of separating the two, even when the difference was explained several times, is disappointing and not a little scary. It's mob mentality at its worst. Fear what is different... whether you actually understand it or not.
I won't defend Redbeard's comments there as I do not think they are representative of the real situation. It seems to me that the real "battle" is a pitched battle between one group of adult males who have decided to be public promoters of MLP and another group of adult males who have decided to be their nemesis. What is important to realize is that the second group didn't develop after the first but simultaneously with it. The MLP divide is just another in the long line of conflicts the *chan generation has engaged in. There's the circumcised/uncircumcised one, for instance, and the one about people who post images of Boxxy everywhere against the people who hated that. This "brony" deal is really no different than the Boxxy thing. It's not really about people liking something different from you. People like all sorts of things. I reckon there are a fair few people on Dakka that really like the Office for example. So why don't we have to have an "Office fan containment thread" like the "brony" one? And why haven't there been any Dwight Schrute Chaos Lord conversions? It's certainly not because people don't like the Office. It's because they don't try to colonize a website that has absolutely nothing to do with the Office. That is what the "brony"/"brony hater" crowd does (yes, they are really the same problem).
I haven't seen much evidence of bronies and furries trying to colonize this site--only a few conversion threads and the OT thing. But I apparently missed this invasion everyone keeps referencing from a year ago.
I wasn't actually aware bronies existed until last month. Furries were something I wasn't aware of until late last year. Strangely, both of these discoveries were met with a "Huh, how about that" before resuming what I was doing, rather than a zealous quest to defend or destroy them.
In short, it's not an issue for me (i.e. What Melissia said on pg. 1).
deathholydeath wrote:I haven't seen much evidence of bronies and furries trying to colonize this site--only a few conversion threads and the OT thing. But I apparently missed this invasion everyone keeps referencing from a year ago.
Yes, we decided to contain it fairly quickly and, with the users cooperation, we are able to do so fairly quickly. It's no coincidence that this thread is about a P&M thread, the only place we haven't enforced containment.
In any case, if anyone wants to continue to discuss this please do so in the MLP thread.
