MOVIE: http://level7film.com/

Read it here: http://privateerpress.com/level7/level-7-escape

You are a captive of Subterra Bravo, imprisoned in the facility’s deepest laboratory, the hall of nightmares known as LEVEL 7. Your singular goal is to escape, but to do that you will have to evade the human and inhuman denizens of this subterranean labyrinth before the entire base is locked down, sealing you in for the rest of your short, tormented life. Will you work together with your fellow prisoners to endure Subterra Bravo’s endless perils, or will you use them to secure your own escape? Ultimately, your chances of survival will depend on how well you manage your greatest weapon, which is also your greatest threat: fear itself.

LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] is a semi-cooperative, story-driven survival-horror board game for 1–4 players with nerves of steel and a willingness to confront the impossible.



Contents:

47 Map Tiles
138 Cards
4 Character Sheets
133 Tokens and Markers
28 Stands
8 Special Dice
Rulebook
Scenario Guide
Box Dimensions: 12.75 (W) x 12.75 (H) x 3 (D) measurements in inches.

Gotta say I'm very disappointed.

When they first released their teaser I was very thrilled, but the lack of miniatures as playing figures is a real let down. They should look to the competition (both GW and FF) and put gorgeous minis in the game, like Mansion of Madness and Descent both did.

Cheers

Agreed, at $54.99 (which will no doubt be €54.99 around here) you'd expect minis.

I'm not really interested in a board game that doesn't even have any miniatures.

I think I'll give this one a pass...

Considering what other companies (FFG, Sedition Wars, Wyrd, CMoN) have to offer in board games, yeah, this is pretty basic looking by current standards.

PhantomViper wrote:I'm not really interested in a board game that doesn't even have any miniatures.

I think I'll give this one a pass...

I couldnt possibly agree more. I can live with cardboard floors, walls, doors, etc....but the main playing pieces need to be minis to get my interest...and my cash.

Looks fine to me. I'd rather a good, well written game without minis than an average one with them.

Looks like they have the time and resources to goof around with this stuff, but not to finish the Monsterpocalypse line.

Monsterpocalypse is DEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

BrookM wrote:Monsterpocalypse is DEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

No it's not. It's being made into a movie! Why you think Matt Wilson and his wife moved back to Los Angeles. He is pursing movie options for it.

As for the game, disappointed in the presentation. The bar has been raised so high for game material that this has nothing that makes it stand out. It is especially disappointing given PP's bread and butter are miniature games. This could have been a cool teaser for a sci-fi themed miniature game, which is what a lot of people were expecting.

The game will sink or swim solely on it's game play now. There is nothing else going for this game.

No minis?


/not approved.

silent25 wrote: This could have been a cool teaser for a sci-fi themed miniature game, which is what a lot of people were expecting.

I don't know why, since they said pretty early on it wouldn't be one.

And it's been confirmed for months that Level 7 is a setting for a variety of non-miniature game types(board, card, etc.).

BrookM wrote:Monsterpocalypse is DEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

I'll never forget that when it first came out my local game store had 20 of the boxes proudly displyaed on the shelf.

And then, after about 3,5 months witout even a single sale I walked in one day and there were only 19 left and I said "you sold one!!".

And the owner said "neh, we opened one ourselves".



They ended up sending the whole shabang back to PP and got their money returned (apparently part of the deal).

As probably the only tile-o-phile at Dakka, someone who has bought games for no other reason than to get the tiles that they come with, even this holds no interest for me.

Boring square single-room tiles that are bland and don’t even interlock. Not every tile-set can be the pure genius of, say, the DOOM board game tiles... but some creativity would be nice. Even the Gears of War tiles are more interesting than these.

And with Zombicide and Sedition Wars I think I’ve got my fix of tile-sets for this year... well... until all the Underdark D&D stuff comes out.

Y'know, it seems that they are trying to emulate the success of Grindhouse Games' "Incursion" to me.

Kanluwen wrote:Y'know, it seems that they are trying to emulate the success of Grindhouse Games' "Incursion" to me.

Which I only bought when Grindhouse put the game (and the separately sold minis) on sale.

Same thoughs on Level 7. I'll pass for now and see if minis come out in the future.

Reading about the mechanics made me excited, as it sounds like a lot of fun to play, but I am also disappointed that they didn't put their sculptors to use making some awesome pieces for this game. That said, board games don't need miniatures to be great, so I will keep my eye on this.

BrookM wrote:Read it here: http://privateerpress.com/level7/level-7-escape

You are a captive of Subterra Bravo, imprisoned in the facility’s deepest laboratory, the hall of nightmares known as LEVEL 7. Your singular goal is to escape, but to do that you will have to evade the human and inhuman denizens of this subterranean labyrinth before the entire base is locked down, sealing you in for the rest of your short, tormented life. Will you work together with your fellow prisoners to endure Subterra Bravo’s endless perils, or will you use them to secure your own escape? Ultimately, your chances of survival will depend on how well you manage your greatest weapon, which is also your greatest threat: fear itself.

LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] is a semi-cooperative, story-driven survival-horror board game for 1–4 players with nerves of steel and a willingness to confront the impossible.



Contents:

47 Map Tiles
138 Cards
4 Character Sheets
133 Tokens and Markers
28 Stands
8 Special Dice
Rulebook
Scenario Guide
Box Dimensions: 12.75 (W) x 12.75 (H) x 3 (D) measurements in inches.

This product doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, seeing the other impressive things coming out of PP, these days.

Its as though someone shot fireworks out of thier arse, then farted Yankee Doodle Dandy.

Whole lot of wizz bang, with nothing but vaporware for your trouble.

PP, look at the kickstarters, the stuff FF is doing, and the other expansive minis games out there, and come back with a straight face and say that this was a good idea...

DO NOT sell this box of hot air, please.

Guys, there's a MonPoc revolution at my store, better now that it's not collectible. Don't hate

ya know having product diversity is a good thing yeah?

will see how this turns out

Bakerofish wrote:ya know having product diversity is a good thing yeah?

will see how this turns out

Diversity is one thing.

This game is lazy, lets jump on the space hulk/ tiled board game bandwagon... With nothing of any originality to it.

From PP, this is inexcusable on any level of thought.

Grot 6 wrote:

This game is lazy, lets jump on the space hulk/ tiled board game bandwagon... With nothing of any originality to it.

I'll let Ed know you think so next time I talk to him, I'm sure he'll appreciate it after all that overtime he put in designing the art for it.

Was releasing the Bodger games back when card games were popular "lazy" too?

Edit: Ed's official response: "Oh no... We also have dice and cards. Doom! And we printed it with ink! And wrote the rules using words!!"

I love Ed so much, I'd have his man babies if we weren't both married.

This game looks completely unprofessional and unappealing.

Definitely seems like a pass unless the game mechanics are mind blowing.

edit: Also I clicked on this thread super excited to finally see this game and it was a major disappointment. ;_;

It looks interesting, but I'd rather spend the $100 to get Sedition Wars. Then I get a boardgame vibe but with awesome minis.

With all of the other games slated for release this year, I'm not sure this game has what it takes to succedd...

Whoa, what's with all the bile? You'd think this was a GW thread.

Nah, PP has grown up now, they're one of the big boys, meaning they can take it just like GW.

All those disliking the lack of minis, keep in mind that this is a $55 game. Good price for a foray into boardgames.
All those that have minis end up at $80+. Descent and Super Dungeon Explore all are at $100.
I'm betting that they were thinking about the price point during design of this.

If they put the rules up on the site, I will definitely give them a look.
I am also going to see what is being said on Boardgamegeek, where they do not expect a game to come with miniatures.
I get more of a Resident Evil vibe from the description than Space Hulk.

Looking forward to hearing more about this.

The problem is, with all the hype this game's been getting for the past year (not necessarily from the developers), people expected something creative, ground-breaking even, you know, and what they got is apparently nothing more than Arkham Horror IN SPAAACE! And considering that PP is the second largest manufacturer of fantasy minis, lack of them here is baffling. I'm not saying PP can never release a board game without them, but this is their first proper venture into SF territory, I think people expected a serious competitor to 40K, not... this. This being X-Files IN SPAAACE complete with grays... Come on, this isn't the 90's anymore! It has "Matt Wilson's pet project" written all over it and I don't consider this a good sign...

The price point isn't low either, compare it to the D&D Adventure games and how much more you get at a barely higher price. Oh, and on a side note, the event card design sucks big time, IMO. I'm not doomsaying, God forbid, but just because a game has a PP sticker doesn't automatically mean it will be good and/or successful. Still, it's supposedly going to be a whole series of intermedia works, including a short movie even, so let's hope the other games are a little more on the fresh side.

The D&D adventure games are reusing minis from the prepainted collectible line that Wizards cancelled, so there is little production cost there.

And where in the Level 7 description does it mention space? I read it as an Area 51 type setting.

skrulnik wrote:
And where in the Level 7 description does it mention space? I read it as an Area 51 type setting.

It is an Area 51 type setting. People just got in their head that PP doing sci-fi meant 40K equivalent/competition, despite being told early on that it wouldn't be that.

I think it's because people keep thinking PP is a miniatures game company and not just a game company.

It is an underground facility built in the 50's by Nixon and his cronies. The background can be found in the PP company rag issue 42.

Those D&D minis have to be produced still, you probably meant they did not have to be designed and sculpted, no? The cost of designing a set of miniatures for a board game such as this isn't as high as you'd think for a company of PP's size. But even ignoring the price, it's the fact that they're missing in the first place is surprising. You know, PP, minis, they go hand in hand like Cameron and big bucks.

Whether it's the far future or the near future is impossible to tell at this point, but you know what I meant - call it X-Files 20XX or Arkham Horror 20XX if you will, doesn't change a thing.

Geez, you people are quick posters.

-DE- wrote:You know, PP, minis, they go hand in hand like Cameron and big bucks.

You do know that PP didn't produce minis until 2 years after opening, right? They started with a D&D supplement.

Yes, I know, thank you for that piece of trivia! What now, you gonna tell me GW started with a mag about RPG's and a set of rules for someone else's minis? Why does it matter now?

-DE- wrote: Why does it matter now?

Because they're STILL not 100% miniatures, as shown with 2 card games.

This whole PP is a Miniatures company isn't true, they're a GAMES company.

Hell, only half their products(WM/H, Monpoc, Grind) have to do with minis.

Play nice kids.

Yeah, enough with this one-upmanship of "but they do produce things besides minis like this, this, and this!" I know, everyone knows, no need to keep hammering it down. Facts are, it's Warmahordes what keeps them afloat, not the currently dead IK RPG or BODGERS. Whether you call them a games company or a miniatures company doesn't change that. My question is, what them producing some niche non-minis games does have to do with Level 7 and people's expectations of the first SF game by PP? And don't tell me it's not SF, 'cause we only learned that, like, just now, and even then it's not necessarily true.

-DE- wrote:My question is, what them producing some niche non-minis games does have to do with Level 7 and people's expectations of the first SF game by PP? And don't tell me it's not SF, 'cause we only learned that, like, just now, and even then it's not necessarily true.

No one said it's not SF, don't know where you got that.

As for people's expectations, people continued to stubbornly believe it would be a Minis game despite being told LAST YEAR that it wouldn't be.

skrulnik wrote:All those disliking the lack of minis, keep in mind that this is a $55 game. Good price for a foray into boardgames.
All those that have minis end up at $80+. Descent and Super Dungeon Explore all are at $100.
I'm betting that they were thinking about the price point during design of this.

If they put the rules up on the site, I will definitely give them a look.
I am also going to see what is being said on Boardgamegeek, where they do not expect a game to come with miniatures.
I get more of a Resident Evil vibe from the description than Space Hulk.

Looking forward to hearing more about this.

I'd put this game more into the level of Talisman or Dungeon Run, both of which are priced around the $50 mark and both of which include minatures... To compare this to Descent or Super Dungeon Explore is just silly. To be completly honest, for what you get with this game I'd actually expect to see it to be priced closer to Fantasy Flights Android or Elder Sign, which would put it around the $35 level.

Looking at what comes in the box and the size of the box (12.75x12.75x3) I'm expecting that the "47 Map Tiles" are going to be printed on cardstock instead of chip board. To me your just not getting much value out of this game. Couple a lack of perceived value with the basically golden age of boardgames that the hobby is currently going through and you have a recipe for an underwhelming release. I honestly would have expected more from PP on this, they need to build themselves a name in the boardgame world and unfotrunatly this is not the way to do it.

That's the point, the game doesn't sound terribly original nor is it good value for money compared to other boardgames. It appears they wish to ride the company's logo straight to store shelves... To me, cardstock chits and stands are simply not good enough in this day and age for a game of this type to entice gamers.

PP said it would be a board game followed by other games, which, at least to me, sounded like they wanted to start off small and develop the universe piece by piece, eventually arriving at a full-blown wargame. Judging by the first offering this is not the case, which is a shame, I for one would've loved an SF wargame by PP.

After reading the promo material in NQ 42 I was hoping for a 50's themed sci-fi game a-la that X-Com game they're doing now.

I did not know the current version of Talisman had minis. It is $60.
Android is $60 not $35.
Elder Sign, at $35, has no board, it is basically a card game.
Arkham Horror has no minis and similar looking components, and is also $60
Incursion from Grindhouse is all card, with board and card standees, and costs $50.
I think people are under-valuing the cost of printed board and cards.

To compare this to Descent or Super Dungeon Explore is just silly.

Why? Outside of them having miniatures, they are still boardgames. The miniatures cause them to have a higher price point.
I imagine with card standees, Descent would be around the $60 mark, in today's market.

I have to be honest, I was looking froward to "LEVEL 7", but this... I'm a bit disappointed.

It just feels... dated. I mean, it has such a resemblance to X-Files and Resident Evil, but those things are artifacts of the 90s. I mean, heck, the Resident Evil film turned 10(!) a few months ago.

As for the price point, it seems only reasonable to compare it to something like Sedition Wars: Battle for Alabaster, and when that has an MSRP of $89.99 (so $35 more), you just seem to be getting so much more value for money.

This isn't a hate on Matt Wilson comment, I'm a big fan of him and have been collecting some of his art since his days at MtG. I just don't feel any real excitement for this thing, and was really hoping I would be. Then again, blessing in disguise, don't end up dividing my Warmachine/Hordes budget!

skrulnik wrote:I did not know the current version of Talisman had minis. It is $60.
Android is $60 not $35.
Elder Sign, at $35, has no board, it is basically a card game.
Arkham Horror has no minis and similar looking components, and is also $60
Incursion from Grindhouse is all card, with board and card standees, and costs $50.
I think people are under-valuing the cost of printed board and cards.

To compare this to Descent or Super Dungeon Explore is just silly.

Why? Outside of them having miniatures, they are still boardgames. The miniatures cause them to have a higher price point.
I imagine with card standees, Descent would be around the $60 mark, in today's market.

When I said Android I ment to say Infiltration.....

The reasons why I think that this game is better compared to Elder Sign and Inflitration is that your getting roughly the same number of componants.

Comparing the box contents of Level 7 to Arkham Horror makes no sense at all...... The current printing of Arkham horror comes with the following:

Components (Revised Printing):

1 Rule Book
1 Game Board
1 First Player Marker
5 Dice
16 Investigator Sheets
16 Investigator Markers
16 Plastic Investigator Stands
198 Investigator Status Tokens:
56 Money Tokens
35 Sanity Tokens
35 Stamina Tokens
48 Clue Tokens
24 Skill Tokens
189 Investigator Cards:
44 Common Items
39 Unique Items
40 Spells
20 Skills
11 Allies
35 Special Cards:
8 Retainers
8 Silver Lodge Memberships
8 Bank Loans
8 Blessing/Curse Cards
3 Deputy Cards
8 Ancient One Sheets
20 Doom Tokens
179 Ancient One Cards:
63 Location Cards
67 Mythos Cards
49 Gate Cards
60 Monster Markers
16 Gate Markers
3 Activity Markers
3 Explored Markers
1 Terror Track Marker
6 Closed Markers

Compare that to whats going to be included in Level 7 and you can see where I'm coming from when I say this is a poor value.

If anything I think your overvaluing how much it costs to have chipboard and cardstock components printed on the scale that Fantasy Flight and PP would be printing at. If you don't belive me look at what a base copy of the upcoming reprint of the Steve Jackson game OGRE gets you...

Have you ever opened a copy of Descent or Super Dungeon Explore? Without the minatures in either of those games there really isn't a game, the appeal of the game is in the massive amount of stuff that you get. Likewise with both of those games the majority of the cost of the game is the production of the minatures, not the other components.

To me this game theme and what I've seen of playstyle wise is Dungeon Run in the future... Except it doesnt have the awsome componants and it costs more.

Platuan4th wrote:

-DE- wrote: Why does it matter now?

Because they're STILL not 100% miniatures, as shown with 2 card games.

So that's REALLY your argument that they aren't a 100% minis game? The two card games theyve produced. Come on now. Nintendo puts out a magazine and some action figures occasionally, so they aren't a video game company either. The fact remains that PP is known for their minis and the lack of them makes this package much less appealing, especially considering the other competition on the market.

Regarding Incursion---I wonder how many people actually buy the paper version instead of the one that comes with minis.

AegisGrimm wrote:It looks interesting, but I'd rather spend the $100 to get Sedition Wars. Then I get a boardgame vibe but with awesome minis.

That is exactly what I thought too.

I hope this game is great.

As a lover of board games and miniatures, it is rather perplexing that a company that makes great game designs AND great models didnt put a small handful of models in the box.

Might not whet the whistle of the Miniature gaming crowd, but the boardgaming crowd at BGG might like it.

Sadly the buzz there for this is weak as visiting this site is the first time I heard of it.

Though you guys really might want to wait and try it before poo-pooing it. I agree that there really should be a couple sculpts in that box, but if the game is good then that more than makes up for a lack of models.

The price is somewhat comparable with other games that lack models.

I'm going to say straight up that this is a good idea.

PP has been doing the miniatures business for a while now, but for any company to survive they need to diversify.

Not to mention, so long as the game gets decent reviews, I'll pick it up since co-op games are very well liked in my area.

PP has had issues with board games in the past. Grind had a lot of problems and I got burned on it, but it was a well made game at least.

Also, you people are underestimating the cost of printing and making plastic miniatures. Besides, if the cardstock is of a good enough quality, I honestly don't care if there are miniatures or not.

Meh...

Vertrucio wrote:I'm going to say straight up that this is a good idea.

PP has been doing the miniatures business for a while now, but for any company to survive they need to diversify.

Not to mention, so long as the game gets decent reviews, I'll pick it up since co-op games are very well liked in my area.

PP has had issues with board games in the past. Grind had a lot of problems and I got burned on it, but it was a well made game at least.

Also, you people are underestimating the cost of printing and making plastic miniatures. Besides, if the cardstock is of a good enough quality, I honestly don't care if there are miniatures or not.

I dunno... I mean, while diversity in offerings can be a good thing, going outside your core competency is dangerous. Remember when Swatch watches decided to make cars? Probably not...

Towards that point, by your own admission, "PP has had issues with board games in the past", which inclines educated consumers to be wary. Non-educated PP fans will tend to be fans of the two things that define their current successes: well written and balanced rules sets, and a distinctive art style and high quality level in publications and miniatures (subject to taste).

This... doesn't appear to appeal to either of those things. It's not a competitive game, it's "a semi-cooperative, story-driven survival-horror board game for 1–4 players with nerves of steel and a willingness to confront the impossible", whatever that means.

The art style is also very different then previous offerings. Like I said, I am a big Matt Wilson (and Andrea Uderzo, and Eva Widermann, etc, etc...) fan; this... looks like a very different aesthetic. Note, my problem isn't that the look is different, per se, it's that, unlike PPs printed offerings, the art is so... small. The character tokens look tiny, and other then that, the cards look crazy simple. Yeah, I get that they are functional, but... meh.

Put simply, PP is known (rightly) for 2 things: good rules and good art/minis. The rules will be what they are, but in the art department, I look at this and then I look at other current offerings, and I just don't feel the value.

Platuan4th wrote:

-DE- wrote:My question is, what them producing some niche non-minis games does have to do with Level 7 and people's expectations of the first SF game by PP? And don't tell me it's not SF, 'cause we only learned that, like, just now, and even then it's not necessarily true.

No one said it's not SF, don't know where you got that.

As for people's expectations, people continued to stubbornly believe it would be a Minis game despite being told LAST YEAR that it wouldn't be.

Oh I don't know, maybe PP's own website..

http://privateerpress.com/level7

Welcome to LEVEL 7, a sinister science fiction setting where nefarious conspiracies conceal the government’s collaboration with an unspeakable alien menace.

...You do realise Plan said it WAS Sci Fi, right?

I'd have to try it.

I don't really get into board games all that much.

I've never played WarmaHordes, have no special love nor hate for PP, and am a (lapsed) miniatures gamer. I opened the thread hoping for miniature awesomeness and saw card counters.

So I've gone from "hmm.. what's this? Boardgame from the Warmachine guys? Looks interesting!"
to
"No miniatures? I won't bother, then."
in about 2 minutes.
ah well.

I feel like I have to throw my two cents in here. When I first heard about level 7 I fully expected that it would be a setting that would essentially be the PP competition to 40k, or at the very least a rich sci-fi setting in itself to put them into that market.

I'm really kind of dissapointed. I think the problem isn't that they made this game, but people were wanting much, much more. This might be a great game, but many of us actually wanted a 40k alternative from PP, and it almost sounded like that was coming.

I have to admit I haven't paid much attention to level 7s progress after the announcement as well though, so my imagination has had plenty of time to speculate without facts.

I think it looks cool so far. Will have to see how it plays. A d while minis are cool, so is saving money. If you want minis, it's not like there is a shortage of companies making pretty much any kind of mini you might want.

AduroT wrote:I think it looks cool so far. Will have to see how it plays. A d while minis are cool, so is saving money. If you want minis, it's not like there is a shortage of companies making pretty much any kind of mini you might want.

Saving money by not adding minis is great, and I would be much less critical of this game if it was a $35 game. Instead its a $55 game that gives you less value then other similar games on the market.

Platuan4th wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:

This game is lazy, lets jump on the space hulk/ tiled board game bandwagon... With nothing of any originality to it.

I'll let Ed know you think so next time I talk to him, I'm sure he'll appreciate it after all that overtime he put in designing the art for it.

Was releasing the Bodger games back when card games were popular "lazy" too?

Edit: Ed's official response: "Oh no... We also have dice and cards. Doom! And we printed it with ink! And wrote the rules using words!!"

I love Ed so much, I'd have his man babies if we weren't both married.

See, thats the thing, though.

Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?

He going to come on over and beat me up, too? Yeah, sure. Whatever.

Tiles, for 55 bucks? You need to take off the heroworship goggles and look at this from MY perspective. A guy that you know... buys healthy amounts of games, otherwise known as a customer.

You need to tell him what a bang up idea this was to spout on this for over a year, then come out with vaporware.

Matter of fact, yes, Call him up and tell him it IS a suck idea, and that the game is Meh. Tell him I said so, and get in touch with me to make it right.

PP is not my pal. If "Ed" can't take a little healthy criticism, then too bad, because Page 5 goes both ways.

THIS game was touted out last year like a "OOOH AHHH!!!" like all of PP stuff is. You come out here with.... that. AND expect it to put on laurals? Then you pull out the E peen " I know this guy" card?

Look at what PP has been doing, and then tell me a box of tiles for 55 bucks is something to dance over.

You are wrong, this is a joke, and you can tell "Ed " to put the minis in it, or even sell the minis FOR it, and call it a day.

You saying PP isn't a minis company is smoking sprue. PP IS a miniatures company with almost a weekly compilation of NEW and evolving gaming MINIATURES...

THIS? This stuff is bland cornflakes.

PP is a better gaming company then to just push something this pale, and think they can get away from it. Its lazy, and the effort is not there to be seen, regardless of how you want to defend this.

Grot 6 wrote:
Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?

I'd have reacted the same way to you saying it about SkeletonKey products, too. It's not about the game, it's about the implications you're putting on a friend. Ed Bourelle's been doing game tiles(mostly for RPGs) for a long time, way longer than he's been working for PP. It's what he was known for in the gaming industry and part of the reason that PP hired him in the first place(his revamping of the MKI league system being another). It's hardly "lazy" for them to make a game that uses that resource in a time when games using tiles are popular.

If that comes across as epeen waving, so be it, but don't let it be said I'm not fiercely loyal to my friends.

can we bash the game AFTER its been released?

like reasonable people?

im not particularly excited about this game (read: not at all) but the complaints here are ASTOUNDING.

Platuan4th wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:
Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?

I'd have reacted the same way to you saying it about SkeletonKey products, too. It's not about the game, it's about the implications you're putting on a friend. Ed Bourelle's been doing game tiles(mostly for RPGs) for a long time, way longer than he's been working for PP. It's what he was known for in the gaming industry and part of the reason that PP hired him in the first place(his revamping of the MKI league system being another). It's hardly "lazy" for them to make a game that use that resource in a time when games using tiles are popular.

Stop taking it personal and look at it from what we have been seeing from PP almost on a daily basis.

They might have been able to get away with this five or six years ago in much the same way as that GRIND game, OR Bodgers did. Not now.

They have just produced what looks like the equivilent of titans for warmahordes, and quite reasonable pricing, sculpts, and great additions to each of the factions. Add that with the upcoming plastic HORDES set, as well as with the several other units, and other additions that they are showcasing MONTHS ahead of schedual.( however you spell it )

With the "Popularity" of tile games, the popularity is in the total game. NOT JUST THE ARTWORK. You pulled that card, chief, not me. The art isn't even the thing. We're looking at a game of tiles, some cut out chits, and... not much else. Matter of fact, that artwork is not even the issue. its the lack of forethought into this game, and the implication as you put it that PP thinks they can get lazy and push tiles with thier brand name posted on it, and everyone is automaticly assumed to tilt nipple to it.

Yes, it is a tile game, but I have about sixteen that I'm sitting in the store looking at, ready to put hard earned coin to to take home and play. Am I going to play it for five minutes, or open it, say- "Hey, WTF PP, wheres the minis?" or am I going to just up, throw down my fifty plus bucks on a game with something in it, and play it again and again. This is coming from the guy that has capitol to throw down for games in the first place. Look at the selections of tile games out there, FF is eating your lunch, and CMON is a close second.

Capitalize on Tile games, but damn, at least look at the competition before you throw Privateer Press on a game and act suprised when people call you on no lickies and chewies.

GW will take a beating at any turn that they deserve it. PP is not any better. They push vaporware, they are getting called on it, especially since they themselves set thier standard,

@Bakerofish: Except that they really aren't.

PP has been touting Level 7 as the next revolution in Sci-Fi gaming for at least a year.

Then all that comes out is a board game with apparently less value than the competition (see Sedition Wars and Zombicide for examples of what I mean), is it so unreasonable that people are upset about it?

PhantomViper wrote:@Bakerofish: Except that they really aren't.

PP has been touting Level 7 as the next revolution in Sci-Fi gaming for at least a year.

Then all that comes out is a board game with apparently less value than the competition (see Sedition Wars and Zombicide for examples of what I mean), is it so unreasonable that people are upset about it?

Where did they tout it as a revolution in Sci-Fi gaming?

How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?

Play nice kids.

Level 7 is also much larger than just this board game, in the end, it might end up something more like Mantic's Warpath. we have Level 7 [ESCAPE] as the board game, we might have Level 7 [WARGAME] which might be like Warmahordes or larger like 40k, and we have [WELCOME TO] Level 7, which is Matt's movie...

seeing as no one here has played the game yet im really hard pressed to see where the lack of thought and laziness comes in

is it underwhelming? yeah thats a strike against this

how does it play though?

ill wait to see what people think after theyve played it. If Im lucky Ill get to play a game or two locally. If not ill get some opinions online from people whove played it.

im not saying that PP is infallible (I dont like GRIND for one) and presentation-wise Level 7 is weak, but claiming disappointment NOW is a little early.

im not looking to change anyones opinion here but when youre spouting off how terrible something is without having played it or because it doesnt have minis(when no one said it was a minis game to begin with)...well... youre sounding like THAT guy.

Mattman154 wrote:
Where did they tout it as a revolution in Sci-Fi gaming?

I know that sarcasm doesn't come out very well in written form, but hyperbole really isn't that hard to detect.

Mattman154 wrote:
How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?

If another game had the same content as this one but with miniatures, it would have greater value than this one, even if the rules would be hypothetically worse.

What sells a game initially in this day and age is the amount of "bling" you get inside. Also, speaking of personal preference now, the game could have the best rules in the world, if it doesn't have any miniatures, then I'm not interested. And considering that this is a miniature games forum, I'm guessing that that is the opinion of the majority of Dakkaites as well. If you go down to BoardGameGeek, I'm willing to bet that they will put much more value in the game rules themselves than we do.

PhantomViper wrote: If another game had the same content as this one but with miniatures, it would have greater value than this one, even if the rules would be hypothetically worse.

Ah, well can't argue with that. I guess it's just a matter of preference.

Bakerofish wrote:seeing as no one here has played the game yet im really hard pressed to see where the lack of thought and laziness comes in

is it underwhelming? yeah thats a strike against this

how does it play though?

ill wait to see what people think after theyve played it. If Im lucky Ill get to play a game or two locally. If not ill get some opinions online from people whove played it.

im not saying that PP is infallible (I dont like GRIND for one) and presentation-wise Level 7 is weak, but claiming disappointment NOW is a little early.

im not looking to change anyones opinion here but when youre spouting off how terrible something is without having played it or because it doesnt have minis(when no one said it was a minis game to begin with)...well... youre sounding like THAT guy.

Hey, the standard has already been set. The disappointment is basicly from, "Oh, hey, we're going to pull out the stops and make a tiled board game. We'll pump it up for over a year, and with the other rumors of the scifi game already in the mix, come out with a tiled game with no miniatures in it, and act like its sliced bread."

On top of that, theres the insider angle from "people" who are over at PP spouting off about it, yet... not the minis game. all it is is tiles and cut outs, and its in a market with over 20+ games already doing this with bigger lickies and chewies, irrigardless of price.

As I said, the disappointment comes from the standard that PP has already established, and in light of how they are growing. To come out with nothing but a bunch of tiles, angle it like its something special, and think its new is laughable at best. and a sham at worst, kinda like pulling a fast one with no effort given to the game.

And as to playing it, thats the thing, too. Whats the play really like? with nothing in there but a couple of chits and some punch out counters? What I see here is a vield attempt at Doom, or Spacehulk with a publicity spin to pump it up.

I see a half hearted attempt from a company thats as of late been pumping out some impressive stuff that the tiled game here doesn't even hold a candle to. call it hyped up, call it overblown, but it PP has been busy as of late, and this tiled game is ten steps backwards.

I'm peeved because it was already spoken of before, now that its out, its.... underwhelming and disappointing to someone who was expecting so much more.

(and, yeah, I'm going to be That guy, because I am, or was very interested and hoping for a great no BS tiled minis game from PP, with the new scifi minis and game that was alluded to.)

all I see here is a variation on a theme.


I am stepping back from this one, and we'll see what comes. From what I see right now, I'll stick to CMON, or FF for my Boardgame stuff though.

I'm already stoked on three or four new skirmish games, and some other "Tiled" games. Seeing as money doesn't grow on trees, PP can sit back and wonder where my fifty bucks is.

Even if it was my mom that put this game out, I'd tell her it was crap, and a crap job. Sorry, but that is my opinion, and even if harsh, it is honest, and I am not just sitting here trying to start something.

I was genuinly excited for the scifi angle, and am still waiting for PP to pull them out. And in light of thier current releases and stuff upcoming, I am truly disappointed at this games contents.

@Grot

and Warmachine is just a variation on a theme as well.

you need to take a step back a bit and realize something. while this is "ten steps back" for you , potentially it could be someone's slice of awesome

if the game is a toilet load after release feel free to remind me but right now youre just putting unnecessary stress on yourself.

who knows, if this takes off maybe youll see the Level 7 in your head after all

Bakerofish wrote:@Grot

and Warmachine is just a variation on a theme as well.

you need to take a step back a bit and realize something. while this is "ten steps back" for you , potentially it could be someone's slice of awesome

if the game is a toilet load after release feel free to remind me but right now youre just putting unnecessary stress on yourself.

who knows, if this takes off maybe youll see the Level 7 in your head after all

Lets hope so.

Either/Or, good luck to them. Even though it isn't my cup of grog, PP has grown on me lately, and I hope this comes out well for them, irregardless of my opinion.

I really enjoy thier Warmahordes stuff, and am still pretty impressed with these new direction the games have gone and models.

Mattman154 wrote:
How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?

In fairness, do I get to play a free demo? Do I get to buy it and return it a couple of weeks later if I don't like it? Pretty much no to both?

In that case, I only have the physical box contents as my guarantee that I'm getting some form of value for my money which I can still turn around and use elsewhere. Miniatures provide a form of "insurance" in terms of value for money.

I bought Dust Tactics (still haven't had time to play it) and will buy/Kickstart Sedition Wars based on the models in the box. If I find I don't like either/or, I still have a crapload of figures I can use elsewhere, so my money isn't wasted. Super Dungeon Explore (in transit) gets me a pile of cute SD display models. The Gears of War boxed game comes with 32 miniatures. I'm tempted to buy it on that basis alone, for the same reason.

A game that has none of the above has to compete with all of that, as well as price point - and let's face it, a company like PP has so many fanbois for being "the Anti-GW" and so many haters (for the same reason) that many reviews are going to be a little hard to trust.

scipio.au wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:
How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?

In fairness, do I get to play a free demo? Do I get to buy it and return it a couple of weeks later if I don't like it? Pretty much no to both?

I personally always read reviews before I buy any board game. Sometimes I go so far as to watch some YouTube videos of them. If I'm spending that much money on a game, I like to know the full in and out of what I'm getting.

@grot

Between this, the new RPG system, the MonPoc movie and of course WMH PP needs a lot of luck.

personally Id really like a cutesy "Scrappers/Bodgers" minis type game but alas...no luck so far.

and to be honest I REALLY didnt want PP to make a sci-fi game as its a far too saturated field IMHO but people like sci fi so theres an audience and theres money to be made there.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

scipio.au wrote:and let's face it, a company like PP has so many fanbois for being "the Anti-GW" and so many haters (for the same reason) that many reviews are going to be a little hard to trust.

dont read reviews from a Minis player...read reviews from BoardGamers. Thatll ensure a more balanced opinion.

Addressed part of the review component in my edit while you were posting your reply, and often I will try and watch some YouTube reviews which have helped confirm my thoughts towards buying or not, but when it comes down to it, I've just realised I still haven't bothered to buy any non-miniatures boardgames. Stuff like some of the LOTR boardgames seem interesting in theory, but also so abstract that they could really be about just about anything.

I generally prefer either strategic or tactical games, and so coming back to this game, I see it focuses on individuals running around on a map and focuses on a bunch of individuals represented by little stand-up card counters, which.. well, I just can't bring myself to care about. Sorry. I'm a painter and miniatures gamer more than I'm a boardgamer. I wouldn't have had any interest in Dust, Sedition Wars, SDE or even BloodBowl if they came with card counters (got into BB with 2nd Ed) instead of miniatures. I'm considering buying Dwarf Kings Hold and whatever the Space Skaven Spacehulk thing that Mantic are putting out - again, based on the percieved value created by including miniatures, along with the fact that I like miniatures.

In the end, I'm a toy soldier guy over a boardgame guy. My gaming shelves doesn't look like Tom Vasal's. They look more like a GW store combined with a GameStop (minus the second-hand pawnshop vibe).

Look, people are not "bashing the game" and its mechanics before they play it, they're simply voicing their disappointment with the idea behind the game. There's a difference between the two.

And even if the game turns out to be well designed, there's already plenty of similar games on the market, already out, that are very good too. What could've been a great minis game turns out to be run-of-the-mill board game. Furthermore, it is undeniably worse value in terms of components than other games in the similar price bracket. Is it *really* surprising that some are displeased with how this LEVEL 7 (in caps!) game turned out? It's not creative in terms of the setting, nor the artwork, nor the play style... And let's be honest, would anyone be pumped for this game if it wasn't coming from PP but an indie developer? I very much doubt it. Will this game stand up to Claustrophobia, Arkham Horror, Mansions of Madness, Gears of War, D&D Adventure System, Descent, Doom, Earth Reborn, SDE, Dwarf King's Hold/Pandora, and so on, and so forth? They're all a little pricier games but it's been proven time and again people are willing to pay a little extra for quality components.

To me, it's a missed opportunity on part of PP. Kind of like Monsterpocalypse, really, which is all but dead.

@scipio.au

i guess its safe to say that youre not part of Level 7's target market then?

and please do not take offense to the above statement. Some people do. I dont know why.

serious question: were there similar reactions when GW released WH:Invasion? Did people go "Where are the minis?"

GW didn't release WH: Invasion, FFG did. GW released Dreadfleet

Again, it's not that PP are releasing a board game, it's that their highly anticipated LEVEL 7 SF game is *merely* a paper board game and not a wargame or board game with cool minis attached. They've squandered the opportunity of taking the SF minis market by storm and are releasing a generic board game. That is disappointing to some, me included.

Regardless of anything else this game is generating very little buzz over at Boardgamegeek.....

Bakeroffish - I dunno. I guess not? Like I said, I've not heard of this game before this thread. I was intrigued and thought it might be good, and then found out that it's "just" a boardgame, which as -DE- points out has a lot of other well-respected competition.

I haven't heard of WH: Invasion, and I skipped Dreadfleet. I did just go to Maelstrom and buy the last in-stock copy of Dwarf King's Hold using their new voucher - spurred by this very thread. Now I just hope they take less than a month to ship to me. Those guys are either awesome or really poor with their shipping.

Grot 6 wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:

This game is lazy, lets jump on the space hulk/ tiled board game bandwagon... With nothing of any originality to it.

I'll let Ed know you think so next time I talk to him, I'm sure he'll appreciate it after all that overtime he put in designing the art for it.

Was releasing the Bodger games back when card games were popular "lazy" too?

Edit: Ed's official response: "Oh no... We also have dice and cards. Doom! And we printed it with ink! And wrote the rules using words!!"

I love Ed so much, I'd have his man babies if we weren't both married.

See, thats the thing, though.

Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?

He going to come on over and beat me up, too? Yeah, sure. Whatever.

Tiles, for 55 bucks? You need to take off the heroworship goggles and look at this from MY perspective. A guy that you know... buys healthy amounts of games, otherwise known as a customer.

You need to tell him what a bang up idea this was to spout on this for over a year, then come out with vaporware.

Matter of fact, yes, Call him up and tell him it IS a suck idea, and that the game is Meh. Tell him I said so, and get in touch with me to make it right.

PP is not my pal. If "Ed" can't take a little healthy criticism, then too bad, because Page 5 goes both ways.

THIS game was touted out last year like a "OOOH AHHH!!!" like all of PP stuff is. You come out here with.... that. AND expect it to put on laurals? Then you pull out the E peen " I know this guy" card?

Look at what PP has been doing, and then tell me a box of tiles for 55 bucks is something to dance over.

You are wrong, this is a joke, and you can tell "Ed " to put the minis in it, or even sell the minis FOR it, and call it a day.

You saying PP isn't a minis company is smoking sprue. PP IS a miniatures company with almost a weekly compilation of NEW and evolving gaming MINIATURES...

THIS? This stuff is bland cornflakes.

PP is a better gaming company then to just push something this pale, and think they can get away from it. Its lazy, and the effort is not there to be seen, regardless of how you want to defend this.

I agree completely. I don't feel it matters how close you feel to game designers. "I'll write to my *friend*, [name drop], and see what they have to say about it… they say you're lame." is pretty petty, both on the part of you for the name drop, and said name drop, for responding in a childish way when representing a company (indirectly).

A simple "I disagree, and expect a good product from a company I trust" might have done much more.

scipio.au wrote: just go to Maelstrom and buy the last in-stock copy of Dwarf King's Hold using their new voucher

What new voucher? Why wasn't I informed of this "new voucher"? /desperately seeking a Maelstrom voucher to use on the new Stormwall

I actually got to play a game of Level 7 while I was in Seattle this past weekend at Lock & Load. I've played quite a few board games, most of which have been discussed here. I too was a bit disappointed that the game did not include miniatures, but I do have to say the actual artwork used is pretty top notch. According to the seminar with Matt Wilson and Will Schoonover, the decision was made to help reduce the cost and keep it accessible to even casual gamers, not just the hardcore miniature enthusiasts. They also felt, and I have to agree, that ultimately, while the aesthetic of miniatures is pretty nice, they don't ultimately make or break a game. Having played the game, it took me a bit to wrap my head around what I was doing, but when things started to click (mind you, I was getting a crash course in the game at 10pm at night), the game was actually pretty involved. It's not ultra realistic and is very mechanic driven. It is above all else a survival game. You play as Joe-Anybody who is pretty vulnerable, so combat is limited. You cannot win by beating down the clones, hybrids, or guards. Your only means of survival is to accomplish the goals and keep moving. According to Oz, they were shooting for a 50% or so survival rate among the players. Yes, you can possibly stumble upon a gun or a stun baton, but these can be more of a burden and can actually be hurtful if used on a guard, as it increases your Threat and makes you a bigger target. All and all, the game seems solid, but is not for everyone. If you love minis and that's your make-it-or-break-it factor, then push on, there's nothing to see it.

It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.

Thanks for the more informed response-- not my cuppa tea, but good to have a better description of what's at least purportedly going on.

-DE- wrote:Look, people are not "bashing the game" and its mechanics before they play it, they're simply voicing their disappointment with the idea behind the game. There's a difference between the two.

And even if the game turns out to be well designed, there's already plenty of similar games on the market, already out, that are very good too. What could've been a great minis game turns out to be run-of-the-mill board game. Furthermore, it is undeniably worse value in terms of components than other games in the similar price bracket. Is it *really* surprising that some are displeased with how this LEVEL 7 (in caps!) game turned out? It's not creative in terms of the setting, nor the artwork, nor the play style... And let's be honest, would anyone be pumped for this game if it wasn't coming from PP but an indie developer? I very much doubt it. Will this game stand up to Claustrophobia, Arkham Horror, Mansions of Madness, Gears of War, D&D Adventure System, Descent, Doom, Earth Reborn, SDE, Dwarf King's Hold/Pandora, and so on, and so forth? They're all a little pricier games but it's been proven time and again people are willing to pay a little extra for quality components.

To me, it's a missed opportunity on part of PP. Kind of like Monsterpocalypse, really, which is all but dead.

Exactly: this property seemed to hold so much potential, Matt Wilson's blog certainly seemed to be building up to something a lot more interesting then this... thing.

I mean, the issue of value for money is not something that can be so cavalierly discarded the way some people seem to want to. Just look at, to take a random board game with a name attached, the Castle Ravenloft game.

The game components are listed as;
"• 40 plastic heroes and monsters
• 13 sheets of interlocking cardstock dungeon tiles
• 200 encounter and treasure cards
• Rulebook
• Scenario book
• 20-sided die "

For an MSRP of $64.95 you seem to be getting a whole heck of a lot. I mean, in all seriousness, for $10 more then Level 7, you get 40 miniatures. Beyond that, is anyone seriously going to argue that Level 7's production quality is so much better then this?

What justification is there for Level 7's price point? That $55 is really looking quite high compared to what is out there.

Platuan4th wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:
Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?

I'd have reacted the same way to you saying it about SkeletonKey products, too. It's not about the game, it's about the implications you're putting on a friend. Ed Bourelle's been doing game tiles(mostly for RPGs) for a long time, way longer than he's been working for PP. It's what he was known for in the gaming industry and part of the reason that PP hired him in the first place(his revamping of the MKI league system being another). It's hardly "lazy" for them to make a game that uses that resource in a time when games using tiles are popular.

If that comes across as epeen waving, so be it, but don't let it be said I'm not fiercely loyal to my friends.

I do hope you can appreciate that, however laudable loyalty is in friends and comrades, it's a profoundly unhelpful, in fact counterproductive, characteristic in being a reviewer or evaluator of quality.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the explanation "in-house" for why the game looks so... well, I would say cheap, but more generously, underwhelming? As I illustrate above, comparable games at roughly that price point simply have a lot more material in them. Whether it be miniatures or books or whatever, the contents shown so far for Level 7 seem like they could have an MSRP of $35 or $40 or less.

DaBoss wrote:
It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.

Now, will there be a core set of products here, too?

Wilson seems very interested in movies lately; hopefully the miniatures products don't suffer.

I don't know.

It could be an early pre-production quality version ooof the game.

cincydooley wrote:

DaBoss wrote:
It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.

Now, will there be a core set of products here, too?

Wilson seems very interested in movies lately; hopefully the miniatures products don't suffer.

I started to worry about PP when I heard his focus on getting movies made of the PP IP. Really worried when he said he and his wife moved to LA, but still run the company. From some that work at PP, its still a very active running. Have worked at two jobs where this happened and neither worked well. Even with email, cell phones, and teleconferences, managing long distances does not go well. There were too many time the team I was on would be huddled around a speaker phone getting frustrated. It creates a sense of alienation and disconnect among workers and management looses a feel for how the company is running. The mood of the office can't be conveyed electronically.

When you start thinking of yourself as an IP company and not your actual product, it leads to disaster. So PP decided to film a short film based on Level 7. Was probably not cheap. The company has distribution and supply issues and can't meet customer demand and they decide to spend money on a movie. Might be cool, but when you company is butting against current manufacturing and distribution limits, you would be better off spending money on that.

Back to the game, sounds interesting, though it has already been pointed out that the game has a perceived lack of value. People can point to other games around that price point with better perceived value and generated more buzz. As other mentioned, PP is starting to get its share of haters. Though I disagree that all of them are GW fanboys. I know enough people who felt burned by PP over the last several year. There will be people dismissing the game just because it came from PP.

Uch, I noticed a review of D&D: Lords of Waterdeep boardgame on BoW, and I look at all the stuff in that box, and then see it's $49.99... what are they thinking at PP?

silent25 wrote:

cincydooley wrote:

DaBoss wrote:
It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.

Now, will there be a core set of products here, too?

Wilson seems very interested in movies lately; hopefully the miniatures products don't suffer.

...

When you start thinking of yourself as an IP company and not your actual product, it leads to disaster. So PP decided to film a short film based on Level 7. Was probably not cheap. The company has distribution and supply issues and can't meet customer demand and they decide to spend money on a movie. Might be cool, but when you company is butting against current manufacturing and distribution limits, you would be better off spending money on that.
...

One thing I find very odd about this whole thing is reading Wilson's blog there is just soooo much stuff about LEVEL 7 as a property, but nothing I noticed about it as a game. The thing is... the property is incredibly generic. The degree of difference from Resident Evil and X-Files, to say nothing of any number of earlier titles derivative of those two, seems so tiny I just don't understand what could be motivating his excitement.

silent25 wrote:I started to worry about PP when I heard his focus on getting movies made of the PP IP. Really worried when he said he and his wife moved to LA, but still run the company. From some that work at PP, its still a very active running. Have worked at two jobs where this happened and neither worked well. Even with email, cell phones, and teleconferences, managing long distances does not go well. There were too many time the team I was on would be huddled around a speaker phone getting frustrated. It creates a sense of alienation and disconnect among workers and management looses a feel for how the company is running. The mood of the office can't be conveyed electronically.

I find the whole "moving the wife and I to Hollywood!" thing... just puzzling. I have relatives in the film industry, there are reasons to be in LA... none of which seem to apply to this. I mean, Wilson has his own company, he could very easily be doing this stuff wherever the company is, without the massive increase in living expenses of moving to LA, and separating the boss from the company. You move to LA because you want to be in the Film industry, not because you want to make films as a sideline to your other ventures.

I also notice something very strange: notice the trademark info? "LEVEL 7 is a registered trademark of Matthew D. Wilson, Individual"; That's... an interesting thing for the head of a company to have on a product his company is putting out, IMO. I'm not certain yet what would underlie that decision... but it's certainly something unusual in this context. I mean, if it was the product of a novel he had written individually, that would be par for the course. But this? Hmmmm.....

I find your lack of miniatures disturbing....

No, seriously. I totally get that it's a price issue, but the minis are what gets me interested in a lof boardgames in the first place. On the other hand, I love FRAG and there are no minis in that game. I'd like to see more of this game, just because it is Privateeer and they haven't dissapointed me so far. I love the HORDES rules.

PhantomViper wrote:

scipio.au wrote: just go to Maelstrom and buy the last in-stock copy of Dwarf King's Hold using their new voucher

What new voucher? Why wasn't I informed of this "new voucher"? /desperately seeking a Maelstrom voucher to use on the new Stormwall

Maelstrom Games - 20% OFF UK RRP FOR AUS, USA, CAN & NZL - PLUS JPN, SGP, THA & KOR!
I assume they lost a HUGE chunk of their business, seemingly never to return with the GW embargo...


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Movies? Oh gawd. That's a real line of success stories right there. Not sure why successful games designer-guy thinks his IP is any better or more likely to succeed than any of the dozens of high-profile videogame properties that have failed by not actually being made or by having rubbish made of their IP (which often isn't actually all that good or unique to begin with.)

See, I am underwhelmed, but for what I think it totally viable reasons.

The lack of minis doesn't bother me. Big whoop. I actually wish like other games of this sort that they had flat round tokens with the player image on them rather than the standees. I always thought standees like Lvl 7's looked kinda cheap.

I'm just not sure about where Level 7 is coming from. They (PP) talked about this revolutionary new license they were creating with Level 7, and touted it as being their "next big thing". Then they launch their brand-new IP with a smallish boardgame that is similar in theme to others that have been out before. I just think the flagship title could have been something more engrossing, that's all.

Also keep in mind that this is a community of miniature gamers. The more vocal (almost too vocal) detractors are mainly complaining along the lines of purely miniature game lines.

I'm also a big board gamer, so I am always looking forward to a new board game that has nothing to do with minis. Some of the most fun games I've played have no miniatures in them, or very basic tokens that have a vague shape.

Board games are sold on their gameplay and at least decent art, which this game has. As for the gameplay, we'll have to wait and see, assuming there aren't already playtest reports from lock n' load.

Launching a new IP or product is a big deal. This is the first PP product that hasn't been tied in any way to the Warmachine IP. They're talking it up, but that' just stupid marketing speak that most people just ignore or play down. It's important to not overthink it on our side and make it out to be more than what it is, which is a board game.

And if the board game does well, then we may see other stuff.

Vertrucio wrote:Also keep in mind that this is a community of miniature gamers. The more vocal (almost too vocal) detractors are mainly complaining along the lines of purely miniature game lines.

I'm also a big board gamer, so I am always looking forward to a new board game that has nothing to do with minis. Some of the most fun games I've played have no miniatures in them, or very basic tokens that have a vague shape.

Board games are sold on their gameplay and at least decent art, which this game has. As for the gameplay, we'll have to wait and see, assuming there aren't already playtest reports from lock n' load.

Launching a new IP or product is a big deal. This is the first PP product that hasn't been tied in any way to the Warmachine IP. They're talking it up, but that' just stupid marketing speak that most people just ignore or play down. It's important to not overthink it on our side and make it out to be more than what it is, which is a board game.

And if the board game does well, then we may see other stuff.

Actually I would argue that most boardgames are sold on the name behind a board game... For example most boardgamers would buy anything Uwe Rosenberg put his name on. Followed by reviews over at Boardgame Geek, i've found over the years that me and many of the consistant reviewers there have very similar tastes. Followed by the publishing company, be honest just like me you probably go alittle weak in the knees when a new ZMan or Fantasy Flight game comes out. Followed by game components, more is always better, it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I get less in the box then i did in other games of a similar price.

This is what I see when I look at Level 7. PP isn't known for their boardgames so I'm probably not going to buy it just beacause their name is on it. Looking over at the listing on Boardgame Geek shows that this game is generating very little buzz and hasn't been reviewed by anyone. It's being published by PP so again I really have very little prior experiance with other boardgames they've put out to go on. So in my buying mind right now it would come down to componants, and I just find them lacking when compared to other games currently out.

IMO, the boardgame world is much more competitive then minis world. You have alot more major publishers all pushing competiting games. Its a world where name meens alot and if your just breaking into that world you have to go above and beyond everyone else. I don't feel that PP is doing that in this instance.

So now this game is a movie promotion device?


Yeah. I hold what I got and stand by my first impression, but I wish Matt here would not have gone and went hollywood on such a lame.... sales pitch.


A Warmachine movie? sure, I could see that. THIS?! Hows "Not firggin likely, and We'll get back to you..." sound?


The more it goes on the worse it looks.


Moving on to talk about Zombiepocalypse and zombie Sheldon. WHEATON!!!!

To come back to something I was wondering about above, I looked into it, and the LEVEL 7 is, indeed, completely the property of Matt Wilson as an individual.

As some have pointed out, it's a very broad mark, covering everything an equivalent area to that of Warmachine/Hordes

IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software; Computer game software downloadable from a global computer network; Computer game software for use with personal computers, home video game consoles used with televisions and arcade-based video game consoles; Digital media, namely, pre-recorded video cassettes, digital video discs, digital versatile discs, downloadable audio and video recordings, DVDs, and high definition digital discs featuring science fiction; Interactive video game programs; Motion picture films about science fiction

IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: Graphic novels; Novels; Printed materials, namely, novels and series of fiction books and short stories featuring scenes and characters based on video games; Role playing game equipment in the nature of game book manuals; Series of fiction works, namely, novels and books

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Action figures and accessories therefor; Board games; Collectable toy figures; Playing pieces in the nature of miniature action figures and toy model vehicles for use with table top hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war and skirmish games, and fantasy games; Role playing games; Tabletop games; Tabletop hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war and skirmish games, and fantasy games, and playing equipment sold as a unit therewith; Toy action figures; Toy model hobby craft kits for constructing toy model landscapes, scenery, and action figures

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing online video games

So, it's clear that it's at least hoped that this could become a serious property... which, again, begs the question, why is this mark in the name of Wilson only? For reference, the Warmachine and Horde marks are Privateer Press, Inc. I'm honestly curious, because the only reasons I can think of for the head of a company to have the company, essentially, license the property of their own president are... protective. That is, this is the behavior of someone 1) who is trying to protect themself from being screwed over by a big company, 2) trying to insulate an asset from being sold off, 3) trying to maintain creative control, etc.

I can think of several logical reasons for this kind of IP arraignments, but none really seem to square with the relationship I assumed exist at PP.

As an aside, who thought this would be a good way to introduce such a large-scale property? If LEVEL 7 [escape] is meant to be the first part of a large, distinct property, this launch is a horrible way of doing it. We know next to nothing about the setting, except that it's a whole heck of a lot like many existing properties, and.... well, that's kinda it.

From the website;

Welcome to LEVEL 7, a sinister science fiction setting where nefarious conspiracies conceal the government’s collaboration with an unspeakable alien menace. More than a single game, LEVEL 7 is a whole world to be explored through a series of interactive and multimedia experiences.

Okay.... Seriously, on the web portal for this "series of interactive and multimedia experiences" there are a few paragraphs of very generic information, and a link to the page about [escape], with even more generic information.

Catyrpelius wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:Also keep in mind that this is a community of miniature gamers. The more vocal (almost too vocal) detractors are mainly complaining along the lines of purely miniature game lines.

I'm also a big board gamer, so I am always looking forward to a new board game that has nothing to do with minis. Some of the most fun games I've played have no miniatures in them, or very basic tokens that have a vague shape.

Board games are sold on their gameplay and at least decent art, which this game has. As for the gameplay, we'll have to wait and see, assuming there aren't already playtest reports from lock n' load.

Launching a new IP or product is a big deal. This is the first PP product that hasn't been tied in any way to the Warmachine IP. They're talking it up, but that' just stupid marketing speak that most people just ignore or play down. It's important to not overthink it on our side and make it out to be more than what it is, which is a board game.

And if the board game does well, then we may see other stuff.

Actually I would argue that most boardgames are sold on the name behind a board game... For example most boardgamers would buy anything Uwe Rosenberg put his name on. Followed by reviews over at Boardgame Geek, i've found over the years that me and many of the consistant reviewers there have very similar tastes. Followed by the publishing company, be honest just like me you probably go alittle weak in the knees when a new ZMan or Fantasy Flight game comes out. Followed by game components, more is always better, it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I get less in the box then i did in other games of a similar price.

This is what I see when I look at Level 7. PP isn't known for their boardgames so I'm probably not going to buy it just beacause their name is on it. Looking over at the listing on Boardgame Geek shows that this game is generating very little buzz and hasn't been reviewed by anyone. It's being published by PP so again I really have very little prior experiance with other boardgames they've put out to go on. So in my buying mind right now it would come down to componants, and I just find them lacking when compared to other games currently out.

IMO, the boardgame world is much more competitive then minis world. You have alot more major publishers all pushing competiting games. Its a world where name meens alot and if your just breaking into that world you have to go above and beyond everyone else. I don't feel that PP is doing that in this instance.

Tying this into what I said above: at my FLGS there are shelves and shelves of boardgames, some I know to be great, some I have never heard of. A dozen, maybe more (maybe many more) makers are competing for space with nothing more then the edge of their box out there. Why make this the leading edge of your new property, this incredibly forgettable thing?

I would love to see a PP style game system in a conventional/Science Fiction setting, which seems to be something in the running. But if that depends on the success of this board game... well, I'm not going to hold my breath for more from L7...

I noticed that too. It's possible that Wilson is thinking about selling the company to someone else but wants to keep his own project, Level 7, well, his. Maybe then invest the money into Level 7. But that's pure speculation. One thing is clear, he's going to market the hell out of this thing, as evidenced by the recent viral "campaign" (more like a fireworks show, but you know...).

If anyone follows PP on facebook, last week they had a contest to win a copy of level 7, if you looked for clues in Wilson's PP insider it took you to this website:

itisallonebiggame.com

at the bottom, it says Copyright 2012 Privateer Press, and that Level 7 is a registered trademark of Matthew D Wilson, I'm not up to date on this copyright stuff, but how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP.

I'm not trying to say that the comments about it being Wilson's property alone, just trying to bring some other facts...

Oh well, I know our pressganger will buy this at GenCon, and we'll probably play it a few times... I'm not a big board gamer (prefer the Deck Building games, but we'll see)

The last few blogs of Wilson were also about making a movie, novels and all that jazz.

Alfndrate wrote:If anyone follows PP on facebook, last week they had a contest to win a copy of level 7, if you looked for clues in Wilson's PP insider it took you to this website:

itisallonebiggame.com

at the bottom, it says Copyright 2012 Privateer Press, and that Level 7 is a registered trademark of Matthew D Wilson, I'm not up to date on this copyright stuff, but how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP.

I'm not trying to say that the comments about it being Wilson's property alone, just trying to bring some other facts...

Oh well, I know our pressganger will buy this at GenCon, and we'll probably play it a few times... I'm not a big board gamer (prefer the Deck Building games, but we'll see)

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say in the italicized part. If you believe that the trademark info is incorrect, I welcome you to look up LEVEL 7 on the US Trademark Electronic Search System.

As for "how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP", the key to this is to understand the difference between copyright and trademark. The copyright notice at the bottom of that page means that the expression there is protected under copyright law to PP. Incidentally, on that page, it's essentially irrelevant. The trademark is registered to Wilson, it's meaningfully his property, not PP's.

Having the trademark in his own name means that, theoretically, he can license the rights to use it to a company other then PP. In fact, it means PP must have some sort of agreement with WIlson... which is kinda the reason I'm so curious, as I can't figure out why someone with a good relationship with the company he founded would go through these steps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-DE- wrote:I noticed that too. It's possible that Wilson is thinking about selling the company to someone else but wants to keep his own project, Level 7, well, his. Maybe then invest the money into Level 7. But that's pure speculation. One thing is clear, he's going to market the hell out of this thing, as evidenced by the recent viral "campaign" (more like a fireworks show, but you know...).

There was a campaign? I have seen his blog posts about it, but that's about it. What else was there? I'm not exactly detecting a lot of buzz, but perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place.

Grot 6 wrote:So now this game is a movie promotion device?


Yeah. I hold what I got and stand by my first impression, but I wish Matt here would not have gone and went hollywood on such a lame.... sales pitch.


A Warmachine movie? sure, I could see that. THIS?! Hows "Not firggin likely, and We'll get back to you..." sound?


The more it goes on the worse it looks.


Moving on to talk about Zombiepocalypse and zombie Sheldon. WHEATON!!!!

I'm pretty sure the Movie based on this property has already been made: It's either called "The X-Files" or "Paul".

You know what disappoints me more? Why not do a GOOD board game in the WM/H universe. Imagine if PP did a Descent style game and you could use your WM/H minis with it. I'd buy that.

That would sell like hotcakes. Include four of the resin warcasters from the battleboxes, add four variants of existing casters from all four factions and make them exclusive to this game, and I can guarantee you that every single WM fanboy would buy pre-order a copy. Put up a bonus scenario in each issue of No Quarter for the next year and you got a hit for cheap. Why haven't they done so yet? Beats me, maybe they don't like money.

As for the LEVEL 7 campaign, I assume it's just the beginning, that's why I put it in quotation marks, so far it's been more of a dud than a cannonade.

-DE- wrote:That would sell like hotcakes. Include four of the resin warcasters from the battleboxes, add four variants of existing casters from all four factions and make them exclusive to this game, and I can guarantee you that every single WM fanboy would buy pre-order a copy. Put up a bonus scenario in each issue of No Quarter for the next year and you got a hit for cheap. Why haven't they done so yet? Beats me, maybe they don't like money.

.

No kidding, right? Just seems like a strange way to start a property...with a board game that has no real "flash" to it.

Buzzsaw wrote:
As for "how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP", the key to this is to understand the difference between copyright and trademark. The copyright notice at the bottom of that page means that the expression there is protected under copyright law to PP. Incidentally, on that page, it's essentially irrelevant. The trademark is registered to Wilson, it's meaningfully his property, not PP's.

Having the trademark in his own name means that, theoretically, he can license the rights to use it to a company other then PP. In fact, it means PP must have some sort of agreement with WIlson... which is kinda the reason I'm so curious, as I can't figure out why someone with a good relationship with the company he founded would go through these steps.

Well, it means that the IP is his, forever and more. Rick Priestly created a game that made some company in the UK a lot of money over the years, which Rick now gets nothing from. I know the writer of Mass Effect 1 and 2 from another forum. He no longer works at Bioware, and gets no renumeration for the characters and backstory he created. This is the norm with business and IP. It also means that if PP goes public one day, or there's a hostile management takeover, or they get bought out by GW, or the company goes under and has it's assets seized and sold, (hello, 38 Studios/Big Huge Games!) the IP remains (safely) owned by Wilson the individual. It also means when this unique IP is a runaway hit, and the next 10m+ subscriber World of Warcraft MMO game is based on it, Blizzard have to negotiate with Wilson, and not Privateer to licence the rights.

It's quite clever in many ways. Wilson can use PP (which he controls) and PP dollars to finance, market and push the IP (which he's essentially licenced to his own company) and if he strikes it lucky with the IP, he, personally, makes out like a Bandito.

scipio.au wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:
As for "how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP", the key to this is to understand the difference between copyright and trademark. The copyright notice at the bottom of that page means that the expression there is protected under copyright law to PP. Incidentally, on that page, it's essentially irrelevant. The trademark is registered to Wilson, it's meaningfully his property, not PP's.

Having the trademark in his own name means that, theoretically, he can license the rights to use it to a company other then PP. In fact, it means PP must have some sort of agreement with WIlson... which is kinda the reason I'm so curious, as I can't figure out why someone with a good relationship with the company he founded would go through these steps.

Well, it means that the IP is his, forever and more. Rick Priestly created a game that made some company in the UK a lot of money over the years, which Rick now gets nothing from. I know the writer of Mass Effect 1 and 2 from another forum. He no longer works at Bioware, and gets no renumeration for the characters and backstory he created. This is the norm with business and IP. It also means that if PP goes public one day, or there's a hostile management takeover, or they get bought out by GW, or the company goes under and has it's assets seized and sold, (hello, 38 Studios/Big Huge Games!) the IP remains (safely) owned by Wilson the individual. It also means when this unique IP is a runaway hit, and the next 10m+ subscriber World of Warcraft MMO game is based on it, Blizzard have to negotiate with Wilson, and not Privateer to licence the rights.

It's quite clever in many ways. Wilson can use PP (which he controls) and PP dollars to finance, market and push the IP (which he's essentially licenced to his own company) and if he strikes it lucky with the IP, he, personally, makes out like a Bandito.

I think you misunderstand me, the scenarios that you present are precisely the ones I was alluding to. You'll note in all of them there is an adversarial relationship to the parties. Which I find odd. You mention "This is the norm with business and IP", but I can assure you it is not the norm for an idea developed in-house to be the property of the creator, rather then the company. It would be the case for someone that brought an existing IP to a company.

The thing is, Matt Wilson is Privateer Press; he owns it. He's not just licensing his IP to a company, he's licensing his IP from himself to himself.

Again, don't misunderstand me, I am well aware that this insulates him from troubles with PP. But why?

Insulating yourself from risk is a serious step to take, and it tells us... something. But what?

Is he so convinced this RE retread is a goldmine that he wants to be able to spin it off personally?

Is PP about to go public and he wants to become a minority holder?

Is there management strife?

Speculation everywhere!

Re-read my post again, friend. I said that the norm for what is essentially work for hire to remain with the company, not the creator.
He might own PP, but he isn't PP. Major differences there. ever heard of Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone? They used to own a company, too.
It tells us nothing specific, but it means that if he were to one day sell PP or take it public, that he will retain control of the new IP. It tells us nothing short-term, it's likely merely an insurance policy - and one that he's regretting not doing with WarmaHordes.

In fact, it needs no speculation. if you stop to think.

scipio.au wrote:Re-read my post again, friend. I said that the norm for what is essentially work for hire to remain with the company, not the creator.
He might own PP, but he isn't PP. Major differences there. ever heard of Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone? They used to own a company, too.
It tells us nothing specific, but it means that if he were to one day sell PP or take it public, that he will retain control of the new IP. It tells us nothing short-term, it's likely merely an insurance policy - and one that he's regretting not doing with WarmaHordes.

In fact, it needs no speculation. if you stop to think.

Yeah, not to be blunt, but as I am an IP attorney, let me put this as gently as I can: this is a very odd thing to happen. What you are saying isn't wrong, it's just irrelevant to what I'm asking.

In all seriousness, you don't seem to be quite aware of the intricacies involved here, of fiduciary responsibilities and conflicts of interest. I don't know what state PP is incorporated in, but it strikes me as very, very odd for the "Chief Creative Officer/Founder/Owner" to have an individual, proprietary interest in a given product. The legal ramifications, should PP ever be sold would be... complex, let's say.

Put another way, you'll notice that the games of Steve Jackson Games (I presume you meant a different Steve Jackson, but it jogged my memory) are the IP of Steve Jackson Games, not Steve Jackson personally.

I have the feeling this is going to play out over time, since it seems quite fact specific.

I imagine that the plan is to build Level 7 into a huge cross-media brand using PP resources and maintaining the ability to sell off or take PP public while retaining ownership to this Star-Wars-busting cross-media juggernaught of an IP.

Like I said, several posts up, and even you speculated:

Buzzsaw wrote:
Is he so convinced this RE retread is a goldmine that he wants to be able to spin it off personally?

scipio.au wrote:I imagine that the plan is to build Level 7 into a huge cross-media brand using PP resources and maintaining the ability to sell off or take PP public while retaining ownership to this Star-Wars-busting cross-media juggernaught of an IP.

Oh sweet Christmas promise me this is sarcasm. Please.

I don't know any secrets, but my cynical side makes me think this might well be the case.

scipio.au wrote:I don't know any secrets, but my cynical side makes me think this might well be the case.

Yes like all the comic start-up that wanted to be like Image/DC/Marvel in the 90's.

Yes like all the kid's cartoons/CCG's that wanted to be like Pokemon in the 00's.

Yes like all the young adult novels that wanted to be like Harry Potter in the 10's.

All complete successes. All everyday names. Oh wait.....

Something of a preview: http://privateerpress.com/insider-6-11-2012

So is it just me or do those tiles remind me alot of Twilight Creations, Zombies!!!

I'll say it again this would have my attention if it was at the $35 price point...

Is it just me, or is the image provided...


Kinda... busy? I hate to pulp this horse, but if the pieces are meant to be clustered that tightly together, then minis really seem like a better solution then the card/standee system they seem to have. From a lot of angles it looks like you'd have to pick things up to see what's behind things and so on.

Quite apart from the issue of "minis make for a better value" (however true that may be), aesthetically this just doesn't look all that nice.

So, as I stated a page or so back, I was able to actually play the game while in Seattle a little while back. I thought I'd give a break down of exactly how the game works in the hopes that everyone can be more informed. Here it goes. Sorry if it's long and a bit disjointed, as most of this is based off my bad memory and 36 straight hours of Red Bulls and war gaming.

One to four players take on the role of four regular people who are trapped in an underground facility, trying to make their way from the seventh level to the surface. Each level is a separate scenario that has a unique objective and mechanic as to how to reach the elevator to the next level.

Player stats are divided as follows. Two movement, two brains, two fists, one shield, and four permanent life points. They also have a fear tracker that counts up to ten. I'll go into each now. The movement is exactly that, how far you can move in tile spaces. Brains and fists are used to accomplish tasks such as combat and event challenges. The number indicates the base number of dice you can use to try and accomplish the task. This can be boosted by other means. Your life points indicate the amount of Adrenaline cards you may have at any one time which also counts as your temporary life points. The fear tracker goes from calm to scared, giving bonuses and or hindering you accordingly. If you are calm, you gain more brains to use in challenges, but are less effective in combat and move slower, while vice versa, when you are scared, you get more fists and move more, but you don't get bonus brains. Your character also starts with two trait cards that augment your person further, such as Zen Master which allows you to move your Fear Track up or down at the beginning of your turn, or Linebacker which gives you bonus to bull rushing opponents.

The dice in the game are much like the FF game dice. Three sides have one of each symbol; brain, foot, and fist. Each other side has a pair of those symbols. So, if you need to take a brain challenge, you figure out how many dice you are allotted by getting your base 2 plus any you get as bonus because of your fear tracker being close to calm. Some trait cards, mentioned above, also give you inherent bonuses to brain or physically challenges, so you count these too. You can also spend your Adrenaline cards, which I'll discuss now.

Adrenaline cards are there to give bonuses, but also count as your temporary hit points. Each card has three components. A simple trade deal, which indicates how much fear you either gain or lose on your Fear Track and how many dice you get bonus for a brain or fist challenge. The second part is a trade off as well, but more context specific, such as turning in to make a single guard not move that turn or reroll a single challenge, etc. The third effect is universal, which allows you too discard it to more your Fear Tracker up or down at any time. The issue is, if you use too many of your cards, you leave yourself vulnerable, since as said earlier, the amount of adrenaline cards you have is how many hits you can take before being sent off the board. You can ever only have as many cards as your current Permanent Life amount. Each time you are sent off board, this number goes down by one, so you become weakened each time until you die entirely.

Enemies are broken into two (three really) categories. The Clones and the Guards. Clones are attracted to people with high fear count, so during any Clone activation, they will gravitate towards the person with the highest Fear level, so players will sometimes use adrenaline cards to lower their own fear so the Clones will target someone else. Guards on the other hand are attracted by the person with the most Threat. Whenever you attack a guard or are in the area with a guard carrying any sort of weapon, you gain Threat. The only way to lose Threat is to leave the board by losing all your adrenaline cards in combat. When you do, you lose one threat. Clones and Guards do attack each other, as Clones are assumed to have 3 Threat always and Guards always have 3 Fear. There is a third enemy, and those are Hybrids. They are basically super clones and are nearly impossible to stop in combat and best avoided entirely.

The game's combat system is as follows. In order to attack a monster, you must make a fist dice roll. To take down any creature, you need to roll a total of three fists any any number of dice you are allowed. Any number exceeding three will begin to kill enemies off the board, while rolling only three will only knock a single model down. When an enemy attacks a player, they roll only three dice and count the number of fists. The enemy adds one die to the roll for every extra like enemy on the same tile. The player then sees how many shields they can muster. Some adrenaline cards give shields, which each shield blocks a single fist. As noted above, each player automatically has one shield. Each fist exceeding the player's shields will force the player to discard that many adrenaline cards. If this number exceeds the number of cards they have, the player is knocked out and removed from the board as described above. Weapons typically give extra dice for combat purposes.

And now, board movement. When a player enters an undiscovered area, they pull a map tile and place it as legally as possible (connecting doorways, etc.) Tiles are broken into three types, Fear, Security, and Facility. Next, the player draws an event card. The card is divided into three areas. First is the spawn, which tells you what enemy spawns if any. Clones spawn on the closest Fear tiles and Guards spawn on the closest Security tile. Next, the event happens, which typically takes the form of some cinematic challenge. The event chosen is the one matching the type of tile you drew the event on. Some tiles, which I forgot what they are called, always produce an event when they are entered. Other than that, events only occur when you discover a new area. Finally, the last part of the event card is enemy movement, which is a mix between Clones and/or Guards or no enemy action at all. All enemies, when they are supposed to, move a single move towards their preferred target.

Movement is pretty straight forward except for vents. Most tiles have a vent along the perimeter which can be interconnected by the players placing them. Some tiles have ducts which are entry points to these vents. Ducts allow instantaneous movement between duct areas by both players and enemies, so players must keep this in mind when setting up.

The finally mechanic is Lockdown. During the scenario, some event, whether because of success or failure will initiate the Lockdown of the level. This usually indicates a countdown until the players are locked in the level and fail the mission. One way to initiate Lockdown is by the players accumulating too much Threat. Once all the Threat tokens are gone, Lockdown begins and the clock starts ticking.

All and all, I really did find the game a whole lot of fun, and I do consider myself a board game freak. Yes, the game may lack the polish we are all used to with FF games, but I'd say it's worth trying before you bash it. This is not a combat based game, nor is it really all that scary really. In the long run, it was great because of the semi-cooperative nature of it and it's unique design gave it a rich challenge. The final product should be a lot of fun.

DaBoss, I must say you've piqued my interest. I have to ask though, is the board really as cluttered during play as the above image indicates??

cincydooley wrote:DaBoss, I must say you've piqued my interest. I have to ask though, is the board really as cluttered during play as the above image indicates??

Sadly, this is the biggest gripe I had with the game. The map tiles are pretty dinky and really are a bit hard to tell apart. The standies in comparison are pretty large and do tend to clutter things up a bit. The game could easily benefit from either shrinking the standies, replacing them with some sort of token, or increasing the size of the tiles, although this last option seems the most unlikely as we were playing on a 4x4 foot table and we filled up nearly the whole thing with map tiles. That, and it sort of has the Munchkin Quest type of problem. Since most standies will basically move and act in unison, they start to clump together. The game does have a population controller, as tiles can only have two or three of any type of enemy at a time and each scenario has a finite number of enemy types that can be on the board at any one time.

DaBoss: Did it look like that board was final production or a mock-up?

malfred wrote:DaBoss: Did it look like that board was final production or a mock-up?

Will Schoonover, I think who is the lead designer of the game, wasn't able to get a working prototype available from the factory in time, so he actually printed the whole thing on card stock for the event, the trooper, but that the scale is almost 100% what we saw there, just on thicker board of course.

The mechanics remind me a lot of Gears Of War by FF. Not quite the same, but pretty close. Luckily I rather liked that game.

Sounds like it might be a fun game.

I must say that I am stil disappointed that it is not a miniatures game, or at the very least a board game with miniatures.

I'm still hoping a miniatures game eventually comes out of this...

~Eric

Sounds....

like a board game of Half-Life.

All your missing is Fox Maulder and Scully and you can call in Kolchack to drive the car.

Good play by play on the game, BTW. Interesting, but I'm not a fan of this one.

That board is too small for the cut outs, and the game would have been better with Variable sized tiles, ALA any of the other selections of tiled games out there with... stuff.

Interesting spin on the game, though, needs a 2 minute stop watch to go along with all of the other crazyness going on there.


The pomp and lipgloss for this game is a bit mutch, and for being so bang up, its pretty darned plain.

Grot 6 wrote:Sounds....

like a board game of Half-Life.

All your missing is Fox Maulder and Scully and you can call in Kolchack to drive the car.

Good play by play on the game, BTW. Interesting, but I'm not a fan of this one.

That board is too small for the cut outs, and the game would have been better with Variable sized tiles, ALA any of the other selections of tiled games out there with... stuff.

Interesting spin on the game, though, needs a 2 minute stop watch to go along with all of the other crazyness going on there.


The pomp and lipgloss for this game is a bit mutch, and for being so bang up, its pretty darned plain.

Almost exactly my reaction, just swap "Half-Life" for "Fallout" (before leveling up to the point of idiocy) or, depending on flavor, maybe "Eternal Darkness."

I thought Level 7 was going to be a 'universe'.

This is Level 7 [escape]. Could be a primer for Level 7 [skirmish]...

Time will tell.

IceSword wrote: Level 7 [skirmish]...

Where you push huge cards around a table and refer to 28mm miniatures to determine the cards stats and abilities.

Haha: http://level7film.com/

edit.

Hollywood, here he comes!

Wow, full of clichés, including, but not limited to,


If you like B or C TV sci-fi, it might be worth a watch, but I cut my losses at around the halfway mark. It reeks of low budget horror: Not terrible, but predictable writing and lacking the budget for effective eye candy. There might have been something original there, but I didn't stay long enough to find out.

What also bothered me was..

The over use of military jargon, the starship trooper tough guy talk, the swish of equipment as they ran and those plastic bags annoyed me the feth out of me. STOP DOING THIS ALL THE TIME YOU HARPY:

SON OF A...!

I don't know, guys, I thought it was a good X-Files spoof. I could see Wilson at the helm of the next Scary Movie.

-DE- wrote:SON OF A...!

I don't know, guys, I thought it was a good X-Files spoof. I could see Wilson at the helm of the next Scary Movie.

I'm not sure if you're serious-- did you think it was supposed to be funny? Seemed like they were taking themselves seriously, to me...

spiralingcadaver wrote:

-DE- wrote:SON OF A...!

I don't know, guys, I thought it was a good X-Files spoof. I could see Wilson at the helm of the next Scary Movie.

I'm not sure if you're serious-- did you think it was supposed to be funny? Seemed like they were taking themselves seriously, to me...

TOO serious. That dialogue made me flinch. "GRRRR, grubs." and "GRRRRRR bugs."

H.B.M.C. wrote:As probably the only tile-o-phile at Dakka, someone who has bought games for no other reason than to get the tiles that they come with, even this holds no interest for me.

Boring square single-room tiles that are bland and don’t even interlock. Not every tile-set can be the pure genius of, say, the DOOM board game tiles... but some creativity would be nice. Even the Gears of War tiles are more interesting than these.

And with Zombicide and Sedition Wars I think I’ve got my fix of tile-sets for this year... well... until all the Underdark D&D stuff comes out.

Negative, HBMC. I still own a massive set of Warhammer Fantasy Quest.

Let's take a look at this game as we might do if we were on Boardgamegeek, and not a minis-oriented forum. Overall, the game looks...meh. I mean, I already HAVE a ton of 'semi-cooperative survival horror' board games available to me. And, frankly speaking, if they're trying to waltz into the board game world, they need to step up the ROI.

For $55, I can tap any of the large-format board games out there, which have tons of pieces, and massive quality, from several dozen game companies with proven track records. Or I can grab several smaller games for the same price. I will note that the box contents in the picture above made me think that the game would sell for about $30.

21st century board games have seen a massive renaissance, and the competition is FIERCE.

A handful of generic/square board tiles, some standups, cards, and tokens does NOT a $55 game make.

"THEY DO THAT BRAIN THING!"

I expect this short to become a veritable treasure trove of hilarious movie quotes... if only it had more corny dialogue along the lines of "It's a weapon, it's really powerful. Especially against living things."

Some more Level 7 spanking: http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-6-13-2012

well...ouch. that's not good.

they didnt even spring the money for Christopher Walken


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson really needs to read Danse Macabre by Stephen King...

This seems like a pitch made to out of touch executives, possibly by an out of touch executive. Is this what happens when you run a succesful company for a decade or so? You go bananas and assume that your dull horror/sci-fi "world" is money in the bank?

I saw Wilson's name on that site three times, just how bananas is that?

Bakerofish wrote:well...ouch. that's not good.
they didnt even spring the money for Christopher Walken

They approached him, but he turned them down. Said it needed more cowbell and Wilson wouldn't have any of it, the auteur he is.

well, I guess I've seen much worse short films. Not entirely sure what the point is, however. It's standard "Grey aliens working with secret government types in secret government base" trope, this could just as easily been the opening scene of a X files or Outer Limits or Doctor Who or a dozen other shows and I wouldn't blink an eye. I don't see how it adds anything to to the product, it's too cheap and unintentionally campy to be a really exciting intro to the "world" they are "creating" and yet it's not campy enough to really make it fun. It takes itself too seriously for how cheap and mediocre it is.

By the end of it, I have no more desire to play the game (let alone shell out any money for it) than I did before, and perhaps a little less now that I know just how generic the setting is. It's not bad, it's just so damned mediocre. They should have just taken the money it cost to produce this short film and upped the quality of the game components.

BrookM wrote:Haha: http://level7film.com/

edit.

Hollywood, here he comes!

Wow.

I say again, Wow...

Well, looks like I have the answer to my prior question...

Is he so convinced this RE retread is a goldmine that he wants to be able to spin it off personally?

Apparently... yeah, he is. Yikes!

Is it possible that this is all some enourmous, Andy Kaufman-esque joke?

With a generic intro such as this..

Plunge into the dark heart of a sinister world where modern-day conspiracies
collide with the stuff of nightmares.

More than a film. More than a game. More than an online radio series.
More than you dare to imagine.

Face the darkness and experience a new level of fear—LEVEL 7.

THEY'RE DEAD SEROUS!!!1!

BrookM wrote:With a generic intro such as this..

Plunge into the dark heart of a sinister world where modern-day conspiracies
collide with the stuff of nightmares.

More than a film. More than a game. More than an online radio series.
More than you dare to imagine.

Face the darkness and experience a new level of fear—LEVEL 7.

THEY'RE DEAD SEROUS!!!1!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they are. If they aren't, it's way too deadpan...

Ugh... I hope the property is separate enough that it tanking doesn't effect Privateer Press.

This looks to be...not good, to put it as diplomatically as I can.

~Eric

Maybe Matt Wilson is trolling us all super hard.

BrookM wrote:What also bothered me was..

The over use of military jargon, the starship trooper tough guy talk, the swish of equipment as they ran and those plastic bags annoyed me the feth out of me. STOP DOING THIS ALL THE TIME YOU HARPY:

Cant view it from work, but was the term "stay frosty people" or a variation on that theme used? Because that would be awesome.

BrookM wrote:With a generic intro such as this..

Plunge into the dark heart of a sinister world where modern-day conspiracies
collide with the stuff of nightmares.

More than a film. More than a game. More than an online radio series.
More than you dare to imagine.

Face the darkness and experience a new level of fear—LEVEL 7.

THEY'RE DEAD SEROUS!!!1!

I will say, for a "Plunge into the dark heart of a sinister world", it's got some damn funny comedy cuts.

I laughed out loud in some places. In fact, I find it difficult to imagine watching the scene with the guy waiting for the elevator in the "bio-hazard" suit and see his expression without laughing.

Wow.... this is like old SciFi channel movie of the week bad....
MST3K bad....

Didn't really laugh out loud, just a feeling of horror. That kind of horror you have when you lost 10 minutes of your life that you can never have back.

There's so much wrong with that trailer I don't even know where to start.

My 1 positive thing: the CGI effects looked at least somewhat professional. But they were the only element of the trailer that can claim this honor.

Taarnak wrote:Ugh... I hope the property is separate enough that it tanking doesn't effect Privateer Press.

This looks to be...not good, to put it as diplomatically as I can.

~Eric

They tend to keep their properties separate, money wise. Like, they fund them
separately so their returns only impact those lines.

I know how hard it is to make a short film on a tight budget, so I'm not going to slag this movie off.

I'm sure for the budget that was spent on it, they did a remarkable job. However, it really does highlight why movie-making is so darn difficult. Dialogue is hard to write, actors are hard to cast and direct to get truly authentic performances and audiences these days are so accustomed to fantastic CGI and creature design that anything less than that really has to utilize incredible ingenuity and creative skill to compensate.

I know that Matt Wilson has been planning to make a big push towards film-making these days and I can only hope that he recognizes the rather large flaws present in this film and looks to resolve those issues in any future endeavors. He's obviously an incredibly talented and creative individual but creativity in one medium doesn't always necessarily cross over properly into other disciplines. At the very least for his next film I hope that he brings on a co-author to help...his ideas for overall worlds, etc, may be great but based on this particular film his command of dialogue in particular leaves quite a bit to be desired.

Sadly it also doesn't provide me with much incentive to check out the game either.

im not worried about them not having a budget. I've seen films with shoestring budgets that work because of a deep understanding of horror, pacing and atmosphere.

Now I understand why his name is plastered all over the damn thing and for that I'm kinda glad as this might shield the rest of PP from the fallout.

For an independently financed short this was not bad technically, in an objective sense, as personally I think the film's editing was sloppy and did not fit the theme nor atmosphere (cut cut cut cut cut cut looong 2-second shot cut cut - this isn't an action movie!). I won't bash on the actors either, as this is a Z-grade movie after all and I don't mind bad acting. It's that it falls flat on its face on the level of the script. The concept for this movie is weak, it was tired by the end of the 90's, let alone in 2012, the pacing is all over the place, the dialogue is corny, and, most of all, it's a cliche on top of a cliche on top of a cliche.

Frankly, I have seen much, much better independent Z-grade feature films I suspect made on budgets not much higher than Wilson's (i.e. Slashers, 13 Hours in a Warehouse, The Other Side, Shadow Puppets, heck, even House of 9). Reason? Their stories were at least somewhat original and the scripts rarely included such cliche lines as "GOGOGO!" or "Sunnuva!". Really, if you told me to go watch a boat load of conspiracy and alien movies from the 80's and 90's and come up with a script that contains as many tropes and cliches from them, LEVEL 7 would be what I'd turn in. I'd say the script is not much better than Ultramarines', and that's not exactly a compliment, it's unintentionally funny in the way The Room or Birdemic are but without their charm. I'd love for someone to riff on this piece of celluloid nightmare.

Well, that's some unexpected B-movie goodness from an unlikely source - for me they should have gone all out on the cliche's and ramped up the cheese...but it seems they're serious

There are things I like - mainly the idea behind Level 7 - it's not often you see a movie to promote a board game (or whatever it's going to be) and I don't think a cross-media project is a bad idea (although the theme has to be strong enough to maintain interest) but for me it seems like they're almost trying too hard. You can have grey big-headed, bug-eyed aliens, just twist them more towards horror - change the concept to make them more bestial or something? I know it's easy to be an armchair critic but that could have been better with a more measured approach to filming - I have to admit I almost closed the window when I saw the "Abandon All hope..." scratching on the door - sadly that's another classic piece of literature that's become cliche and it wasn't necessary. I feel the concept is right, but the execution is two decades off.

On the game itself it's a pity there are no miniatures - there's no better way to get a more visual involvement into a board game, so the extra expense would have been worth it. The design doesn't look too bad and the main concept on basing it on real conspiracy theories is a good one, but I feel it needs more than that...

...and I know this may seem like trolling but who is Matt Wilson I assume he's the creative director/founder at PP or something like that? Either way the film should have been as far removed from a "real" movie as possible - no need for opening credits, just a scrolling list at the end would have done.

Sorry PP but small grey aliens with "that brain thing" don't scare me...I'd sooner pat them on the head and offer them a cheesy wotsit...that'll placate them

...I was going to make a joke and say "Well at least it's not as bad as Prometheus!", but nah, this is pretty damn bad. Prometheus, by the way, is excellent proof that having a big budget still means nothing if you get a couple of donkey-caves to write the script.

Anyway, Level 7 is looking like kind of a let down. How many people do you think will actually find this interesting? Personally, the game itself doesn't sound all that enticing and comes off as being a little overpriced for what you get, the game universe is so bland and cliche it almost feels like someone unearthed a time capsule from the mid-90's and found that short film in it, and...I dunno, I don't have a third point. I also find it hilarious how deadly serious they appear to be taking this whole thing, I honestly do think it might be some kind of troll and we're all gonna look pretty silly in a couple weeks.

What has been seen can not be unseen.


How can you even take something this .... so utterly tired, seriously?

Not only are we trying to reinvent delta green, resident evil, or the X files, We're doing it with our name plastered all over it, like thats some sort of badge of honor.

And then we bounce back to the game.... Which is now just an utter joke, that it isn't even comparable to anything even on par with PP. No wonder they didn't want it.


Somehow, I'm starting to think that this guy actually thinks he's something special, and that he's pulling an Uwe Boll of gaming on us.

I was disappointed in the first place, but now I'm starting to think that this insult is on purpose, and Matt Ward is behind it in some sort of wacked out GW conspiracy.

Grot 6 wrote:
I was disappointed in the first place, but now I'm starting to think that this insult is on purpose, and Matt Ward is behind it in some sort of wacked out GW conspiracy.

Wait.... Matt Ward.... Matt Wilson....

Both their initials are MW...

THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON!!!

ITS A GIANT CONSPIRACY!!! AHHHH!!!!

<runs off screaming>

I dont need more mini's to paint. If the game is good enough to stand on it's own it will be played. Hows youre dreadfleet games going guys? did you get all your pretty miniatures painted?

fire4effekt wrote:I dont need more mini's to paint. If the game is good enough to stand on it's own it will be played. Hows youre dreadfleet games going guys? did you get all your pretty miniatures painted?

I did! So nice of you to ask!

yakface wrote:
I know how hard it is to make a short film on a tight budget, so I'm not going to slag this movie off.

I'm sure for the budget that was spent on it, they did a remarkable job. However, it really does highlight why movie-making is so darn difficult. Dialogue is hard to write, actors are hard to cast and direct to get truly authentic performances and audiences these days are so accustomed to fantastic CGI and creature design that anything less than that really has to utilize incredible ingenuity and creative skill to compensate.

I know that Matt Wilson has been planning to make a big push towards film-making these days and I can only hope that he recognizes the rather large flaws present in this film and looks to resolve those issues in any future endeavors. He's obviously an incredibly talented and creative individual but creativity in one medium doesn't always necessarily cross over properly into other disciplines. At the very least for his next film I hope that he brings on a co-author to help...his ideas for overall worlds, etc, may be great but based on this particular film his command of dialogue in particular leaves quite a bit to be desired.

Sadly it also doesn't provide me with much incentive to check out the game either.

I'm afraid I can't be quite so... indulgent, I suppose is the nearest word. In simplest terms, I would point out that whenever a critique uses a variation of "for an X, it's pretty good", it's a really bad sign. It's a sign that you realize the item being evaluated fails on its own terms, so you're going to have to re-frame things to avoid calling a spade a spade.

I have close family in the film business, and if nothing else I have learned that everything in film is frenetic, haphazard and a virtual miracle to make anything work. And yet it does. The secret is that things that work match the ability set of the filmmaker to the project.

Looking at LEVEL 7, it's just so painfully clear that Wilson's reach has exceed his grasp: there are plenty of ways this could have been rescued from it's prison of mediocrity, but they were denied because it's clear Wilson wanted a flashy, high budget style look... on no budget at all.

Consider, for example, a low budget movie in a similar genre, Attack the Block. Now, that movie is definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but it takes an almost insane premise (aliens attack a housing project) and makes it work... or at least, be memorable.

Block is chock full of things you aren't expecting: some characters have hidden depths, but a lot are simply realistic portrayals of not-particularly-inspiring individuals in a wild situation. People both rise to meet the challenge and fail horribly, but memorably, and the monster effect manages to be transparently cheap and yet work really well in context.

Can we say anything like that for any part of LEVEL 7? Again, the problem isn't he made a cheap movie; it's he tried to make an expensive movie on a cheap budget.

I mean, the most obvious problem is... so darned obvious: we know nothing about the "protagonist" at the start, we know nothing about him by the end, and in the middle there is some... stuff. Nothing we see matters at all in the end, nor is any real information conveyed. The CGI at the end is not bad, but it's such a slog to get to it.

Finally, 2:30 of credits? Really?

Buzzsaw wrote:[
Finally, 2:30 of credits? Really?

Yeah, one of the first things I noticed way back in the day at film school was that amateur filmmakers love credits...both long intro and end credits because they are defined portions of a film that are easy to replicate and that help to signify (at least in an amateur filmmaker's mind) that it is a 'real' film. Its the same reason that people love to make trailers of a movie without any intention of ever making a movie out of the material...because trailers have a very set formula that is easy to replicate.

So the joke back in film school was always to check the amount of screen time taken up by credits on a short film in relation to how long the overall film is. The more time spent on credits, the worse the film usually is.


IMHO, since this is primarily a promotional piece for his game, it was kind of inappropriate to have any opening credits at all (even if it was only 'a film by...') and end credits, if necessary (maybe for union requirements, although I highly doubt it) should have been kept insanely brief with a link to a website with full credits if necessary.

But anyway, its a little piece on the internet that helps to introduce the game setting. I don't think it is very flattering for the game, but its certainly not an affront against humanity or anything like that...just not a great effort, IMHO.

cincydooley wrote:

fire4effekt wrote:I dont need more mini's to paint. If the game is good enough to stand on it's own it will be played. Hows youre dreadfleet games going guys? did you get all your pretty miniatures painted?

I did! So nice of you to ask!

Now how often do you play with them?

That said I disagree with fire4effekt. Good games will get played, yeah...but good games with good minis will get played, too.

'nother preview: http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-6-15-2012

Another resounding "Meh." Looks like a combination of any number of video games, with any number of tile games, and a cluttered card. Like every preview I've seen for this game, nothing feels original.

I feel this could've worked better as a card game as opposed to a board game.

HOSTEL, the game.


shh, don't let old "I know Quinton Tarintino" Eli Roth hear you spouting too loud about this game. He'll take it and say he came up with it, as well.

Hopefully this is a field test for a Warmachine movie--which is why I'm assuming he chose a one off board game/setting to test his film making capabilities before sinking everything into PPs main IP.

The good;

Special effects were pretty good/cool
The lighting


The bad;

The dialogue
The acting


They say the best written satire is the one where you can't tell if it is satire--so either this is very good or just very badly written. I couldn't tell if it was to be taken serious or was all tongue in cheek. Still, a great first effort from someone that I presume has never done film---hopefully he gets some serious writing chops to help him with a future WM film.

BrookM wrote:I feel this could've worked better as a card game as opposed to a board game.

I think you're on to something, there...

yakface wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:[
Finally, 2:30 of credits? Really?

...

IMHO, since this is primarily a promotional piece for his game, it was kind of inappropriate to have any opening credits at all (even if it was only 'a film by...') and end credits, if necessary (maybe for union requirements, although I highly doubt it) should have been kept insanely brief with a link to a website with full credits if necessary.

But anyway, its a little piece on the internet that helps to introduce the game setting. I don't think it is very flattering for the game, but its certainly not an affront against humanity or anything like that...just not a great effort, IMHO.

The thing that blows my mind, and what I think explains the insane credit sequence, is that this isn't in Wilson's mind "a promotional piece for his game", I think he sees this as a first foray into film making. I mean, look at all the stuff on his blog about it, it's the "short film that I have dedicated the last eight months of my life to"!

It's a real shame (though, obviously, far from affronts like the ending of ME3), and it makes me wonder, who is Wilson surrounded by that this flew past? No one thought that this could, for example, have been cut to like 1 minute and been a better ad?

AgeOfEgos wrote:Hopefully this is a field test for a Warmachine movie--which is why I'm assuming he chose a one off board game/setting to test his film making capabilities before sinking everything into PPs main IP.

I hope not. Let him ruin one franchise that's still in the crib instead of one that's already out there.

BrookM wrote:I feel this could've worked better as a card game as opposed to a board game.

Yes, it would have made a great $35 card game and one that I'd probably add to my collection.....

The movie itself wasn't that bad, but its not what I'd use to basically intro everyone to a "new and upcoming" IP

Has anyone heard anything about the Monsterpocalypse movie lately? Last I heard was awhile ago when they got Tim Burton to direct it.

I thought the MonPoc movie was dead or in development hell?

If ever there was a movie I would Want Michael Bay to get a hold of, it would be MonPoc. There's not really any story to ruin, not much nostalgia value at all, just giant robots and monsters beating the crap out of each other and leveling a city in the process. Just Try to tell me that doesn't Scream Michael Bay!

Nah, because he would still over-dramatize everything, and center the movie mainly around the military dealing with the monster attacks and not the monsters themselves. Monsters which you probably wouldn't be able to see because of all the shaky cam, and I assume they would be needlessly complex in their design so it would be hard to really tell what the hell they even are.

Tim Burton was signed on to direct, but this was quite a while ago:

http://www.slashfilm.com/exclusive-tim-burton-developing-monsterpocalypse-full-details-revealed/


Although IMDB still lists it as a 2013 release, so who knows.

Being developed as a 3D movie

Big fething surprise, lol...just like every single other movie now.

Makes me wonder how he'll cram Johnny Depp into that one.

What? You don't see the obvious resemblance?

You know, a MonPoc movie done in ye olde Godzilla style, as in, guys in suits, that would be fun.

Why does Level7 bring Chris Roberts to my mind....

Oh, Wing Commander..

Matt Wilson, dont quit your day job as a game designer for PP.

Because I'll tell you what, if this movie is any indication of what we can expect for Monsterpocalypse, then I think I can save myself 2 hours of time in the future by avoiding it.

An entire new IP doesnt just get built by decree of Wilson and blind adoration of the fans. It gets built by interest from fans.

He seems to have underestimated exactly how discriminating his fans tastes are, and thats a shame.

I am even less inclined to try the boardgame now than I was before I saw that short film. A short film whose credits were almost half as long as the film itself. *shakehead*

A huge, firm "No thanks" to the entire 'Level 7' IP in general.