While how the Imperium of Man views the Tyranids is very well known, what with them rating them at the same level as Chaos if not higher in terms of overall threat to the Imperium, as well as considering them perhaps the most abhorrent xenos of them all. We generally don't get much on how the other factions interact with and view them. So I've started devouring pretty much any fluff that concerns the Tyranids and any non-imperial faction and really began to ponder the question. But of course, speculating by oneself is not terribly fun so I've decided to go and ask other fluff experts.

What I generally want to know.

Chaos in general seems slow to realize the full scale of the Tyranids and as a result have suffered horrendous defeats such as on Forgefane and Sybari. While Chaos is perhaps the faction with the least unified outlook on things, I'm curious as to why the forces of Chaos typically seem to undergo a process of "Get caught by surprise by Tyranid Hive Fleet entering system, underestimate them at every turn, then get slaughtered horribly" when concerning the Hive Fleets.

Other than relying on the fact that one a ship per ship basis, Necron starships are without compare in the galaxy, and outnumbering the Tyranid fleet, what tactics did the Necrons likely use in their crushing of a significant portion of Hive Fleet Gorgon at Kau'Mais? And generally speaking, how do the Necrons counter the Tyranids despoiling their old haunts?

What is the general ork viewpoint on the Tyranids? We know what they think about humans, with several quotes dedicated to most varieties of them, we know that the Orks have an extravagantly low opinion of the Eldar ("Aww it's just da Eldar...yoo can send 'alf da boyz 'ome..." ), they seem to regard the Tau far more for their guns than any combat ability, and think that the Necrons offer some great fighting, but what about the Tyranids? And do the Orks devote any special methods to fighting the "gribbliez" like they do with humans?

As for the Eldar, how does the Shadow of the Warp appear on the Skein that Farseers use? Do the Eldar have a special rune for their farseers and warlocks to deal with it? Do they hold any specific opinions about the Tyranids? And generally speaking, what kind of plans do the Seers and Autarchs craft to bring down Tyranid swarms or defend against them?

On the subject of the Tau; going by the blurb about Leviathan it seems that several tendrils of Leviathan, Kraken, et al are already making way for the Tau Empire if they're creating new weapons, tactics, and technologies to specifically combat them. Does this mean that the Tau are now fully aware of the scale of the Tyranid threat? And since the Tau seem like they are fond of tailoring their kill cadres for specific kinds of threats, how would a Shas'O outfit a cadre for the purpose of nid killing? And lastly; how can they (or how would they) detect and deal with genestealer cults?

I'm also perfectly up for more general discussion of how the Tyranids and non-imperial factions interact as well as dealing with other questions on the subject I haven't asked. While I have my own ideas and opinions on most of those questions I'd feel a lot better about them if I've run them through a healthy amount of debating.

I beleive orks actually like fighting the nids as they put up a good fight and know how to fight good and proppa
where as the tau see them as the most horrible threat and creatues in the galaxy, as they are trying to unite and be friends with the races/ factions of the galaxy the tyranids are eatting them all, it got to the point where they deicede to allie with the dark eldar giving the heamoculus (sp? ) like 777 fire warriors or something.
eldar hate them as the nids have a way and abilty to kill / combat ever part of an eldar, a hive fleet even made a speical creature just to deal with the eldar, the doom, who stucks out your soul, which given eldar are meant to be immortal they tend to hate it.

it got to the point where they deicede to allie with the dark eldar giving the heamoculus (sp? ) like 777 fire warriors or something.

What.

In the dark eldar codex there is a story of the tau giving Urien Rakarth tau as a trade for their help against nids. They later realsied that the grotesques used so effectively against the nids were the tau given to the dark eldar, just before the dark eldar then turned on the tau!

Eiríkr wrote:

it got to the point where they deicede to allie with the dark eldar giving the heamoculus (sp? ) like 777 fire warriors or something.

What.

sorry was 77 and it was of each castes (codex dark eldar pg 18 first and second paragraph in the path of damnation bit )

Kain wrote:

What I generally want to know.

1.

Chaos in general seems slow to realize the full scale of the Tyranids and as a result have suffered horrendous defeats such as on Forgefane and Sybari. While Chaos is perhaps the faction with the least unified outlook on things, I'm curious as to why the forces of Chaos typically seem to undergo a process of "Get caught by surprise by Tyranid Hive Fleet entering system, underestimate them at every turn, then get slaughtered horribly" when concerning the Hive Fleets.

Chaos is left to the sidelines in 5th ed fluff, maybe they fare better if they get their own fluff in chaosy publications?

2.

Other than relying on the fact that one a ship per ship basis, Necron starships are without compare in the galaxy, and outnumbering the Tyranid fleet, what tactics did the Necrons likely use in their crushing of a significant portion of Hive Fleet Gorgon at Kau'Mais? And generally speaking, how do the Necrons counter the Tyranids despoiling their old haunts?

The Necrons have the main advantage of denial, denial of reinforcing that is. Gauss tech mostly erases the biomass the nids would like to recycle and thus Nids cannot throw ressources at the Necrons as they may against others. Basically the Necrons are the counter to them, tech vs bio, its only a question how many Necrons are awake and unified.

3.

What is the general ork viewpoint on the Tyranids? We know what they think about humans, with several quotes dedicated to most varieties of them, we know that the Orks have an extravagantly low opinion of the Eldar ("Aww it's just da Eldar...yoo can send 'alf da boyz 'ome..." ), they seem to regard the Tau far more for their guns than any combat ability, and think that the Necrons offer some great fighting, but what about the Tyranids? And do the Orks devote any special methods to fighting the "gribbliez" like they do with humans?

Orks and special methods? Is there more than 1 ?


4.

As for the Eldar, how does the Shadow of the Warp appear on the Skein that Farseers use? Do the Eldar have a special rune for their farseers and warlocks to deal with it? Do they hold any specific opinions about the Tyranids? And generally speaking, what kind of plans do the Seers and Autarchs craft to bring down Tyranid swarms or defend against them?

Speed and denial of ressources.

On the subject of the Tau; going by the blurb about Leviathan it seems that several tendrils of Leviathan, Kraken, et al are already making way for the Tau Empire if they're creating new weapons, tactics, and technologies to specifically combat them. Does this mean that the Tau are now fully aware of the scale of the Tyranid threat? And since the Tau seem like they are fond of tailoring their kill cadres for specific kinds of threats, how would a Shas'O outfit a cadre for the purpose of nid killing? And lastly; how can they (or how would they) detect and deal with genestealer cults?

Tau had their 'nid-experience' wit hive fleet gorgon. The fluff about hivefleet naga stated they wouldn't have had a chance if it hit them and thanks to Eldar it never reached them. Whatever it is, Tau seem to have someone to join in and fight the nids so we don't know how they do alone.

5

I'm also perfectly up for more general discussion of how the Tyranids and non-imperial factions interact as well as dealing with other questions on the subject I haven't asked. While I have my own ideas and opinions on most of those questions I'd feel a lot better about them if I've run them through a healthy amount of debating.

I'd consider hivefleet naga and the blurb of 12 destroyed little xeno empires. I'd also think about the ulumeathi league and the fact the inquisition seemed to own artifacts of ulumeathi origin.

IMO, the nids treat every living being as biomass to collect and process. The biomass however is a lot greater than just the major players of the galaxy we know. Plus the creatures of the warp may want to keep their playgrounds.

if the chaos gods wanted to they would direct the primarchs and all the legions to wipe the nids out, simply put, tyranids are no threat to chaos, now if the chaos gods continue to just plod around and let the nids eat the universe piece meal... then they lose by a thousand cuts

Formosa wrote:if the chaos gods wanted to they would direct the primarchs and all the legions to wipe the nids out, simply put, tyranids are no threat to chaos, now if the chaos gods continue to just plod around and let the nids eat the universe piece meal... then they lose by a thousand cuts

Even assuming they could wipe out leviathan, which in of itself according to a map of it's assault on the galaxy is shown to be a significant fraction of the galaxy's width; so given that the mortal servants of Chaos number significantly less than the Imperium who are already having a hell of a time trying to stop Leviathan; this would be unlikely; the severely depleted Chaos Space marines and traitor guard who would be lucky to get away with less than 90% casualties, would be promptly swept away by the next hive fleet or anyone else who wanted them dead really.

There's a reason why most of the mortal servants of Chaos hide on daemon worlds and permanent warp rifts, their lack of numbers means they'd be crushed like ants by the much larger Imperium. And 100 grey knight terminators could beat Angron and 12 bloodthirsters, albeit after a very hard fight, and it is worth noting that Angron is probably the best remaining Primarch in physical combat (Both Sanguinus and Horus, who were capable of matching him, are now dead), I'm pretty sure 100 Hive Tyrants would rip him to shreds. And thus, any other Daemon Primarch really.

Kain wrote:

Formosa wrote:if the chaos gods wanted to they would direct the primarchs and all the legions to wipe the nids out, simply put, tyranids are no threat to chaos, now if the chaos gods continue to just plod around and let the nids eat the universe piece meal... then they lose by a thousand cuts

Even assuming they could wipe out leviathan, which in of itself according to a map of it's assault on the galaxy is shown to be a significant fraction of the galaxy's width; so given that the mortal servants of Chaos number significantly less than the Imperium who are already having a hell of a time trying to stop Leviathan; this would be unlikely; the severely depleted Chaos Space marines and traitor guard who would be lucky to get away with less than 90% casualties, would be promptly swept away by the next hive fleet or anyone else who wanted them dead really.

There's a reason why most of the mortal servants of Chaos hide on daemon worlds and permanent warp rifts, their lack of numbers means they'd be crushed like ants by the much larger Imperium. And 100 grey knight terminators could beat Angron and 12 bloodthirsters, albeit after a very hard fight, and it is worth noting that Angron is probably the best remaining Primarch in physical combat (Both Sanguinus and Horus, who were capable of matching him, are now dead), I'm pretty sure 100 Hive Tyrants would rip him to shreds. And thus, any other Daemon Primarch really.

To be fair, there aren't many things in the 40k universe that could beat 100 tyrants other than the chaos gods and maybe the emperor, but even they would be fighting an uphill struggle.

The Chaos gods are incapable of entering the materium without expending so much of their energy that they'd become easy prey for the other three. I wouldn't count out the Eldar Gods if most of them weren't you know...dead or broken. And a fully formed C'Tan might do the trick, or one Imperator Titan/Abominus Titan/Mega-Gargant/Medusa V Tomb Stalker.

Kain wrote:or one Imperator Titan

They tried that on Macragge. It was destroyed.

Chowderhead wrote:

Kain wrote:or one Imperator Titan

They tried that on Macragge. It was destroyed.

Wasn't it destroyed by a Bio-Titan, not hive tyrants

Hornifex wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

Kain wrote:or one Imperator Titan

They tried that on Macragge. It was destroyed.

Wasn't it destroyed by a Bio-Titan, not hive tyrants

Multiple Bio-titans, while the Dominatrice and Hydraphant are smaller than an Imperator, the Tyranids have a lot more Dominatrices and Hydraphants to throw at a problem than the Imperium has Imperators and definitely more than Chaos has Abomini.

The IoM is already having a hard time with the nids, but if the nid codex is correct, these fleets are only a fraction of what is coming. If this is true it could mean the end of this galaxy, cause I can't see anything combating that.

oldone wrote:

Eiríkr wrote:

it got to the point where they deicede to allie with the dark eldar giving the heamoculus (sp? ) like 777 fire warriors or something.

What.

sorry was 77 and it was of each castes (codex dark eldar pg 18 first and second paragraph in the path of damnation bit )

Also the Dark Eldar did not actually tell the Tau why they need "laision" officers

Kain wrote:

Formosa wrote:if the chaos gods wanted to they would direct the primarchs and all the legions to wipe the nids out, simply put, tyranids are no threat to chaos, now if the chaos gods continue to just plod around and let the nids eat the universe piece meal... then they lose by a thousand cuts

Even assuming they could wipe out leviathan, which in of itself according to a map of it's assault on the galaxy is shown to be a significant fraction of the galaxy's width; so given that the mortal servants of Chaos number significantly less than the Imperium who are already having a hell of a time trying to stop Leviathan; this would be unlikely; the severely depleted Chaos Space marines and traitor guard who would be lucky to get away with less than 90% casualties, would be promptly swept away by the next hive fleet or anyone else who wanted them dead really.

There's a reason why most of the mortal servants of Chaos hide on daemon worlds and permanent warp rifts, their lack of numbers means they'd be crushed like ants by the much larger Imperium. And 100 grey knight terminators could beat Angron and 12 bloodthirsters, albeit after a very hard fight, and it is worth noting that Angron is probably the best remaining Primarch in physical combat (Both Sanguinus and Horus, who were capable of matching him, are now dead), I'm pretty sure 100 Hive Tyrants would rip him to shreds. And thus, any other Daemon Primarch really.

chaos is fractured because the gods want it that way, now if the chaos gods decided nids are a big enough threat they work together and send infinate deamons, billions of cultist/traitor guard and tens of thousands of space marines, not to mention all the Xenos races corrupted by chaos, if 1k space marines (with help from PDF and a Fleet of starships) can kill a tendril.. then leviathan will not be an issue to 10,000 + marines and there primarchs.

Yes 100 tyrants probably could kill a primarch, could it kill 5? 7? all of the deamon primarchs? what about there legions with them? and orbital support? and titans? traitor guard?... answer is hell no.

And all this without mentioning the biggest trump card (in my opinion) the dark mechanicus and the techno virus (which we know works on nids) these guys are not hamstinged like the loyalist ones, they will think nothing of developing weapons to nuke the nids

Then we have the Deamons, Khorne ones will be easy to bring in all the death and destruction, nurgle will feed of the rot and despair, tzeench will love the constant changing tactics and warfare and slaanesh will love the sensations of new ways to feel pain and die.

But back to topic, if chaos decides to off the nids... it will be totally one sided and nids go pop

Mr Morden wrote:

oldone wrote:

Eiríkr wrote:

it got to the point where they deicede to allie with the dark eldar giving the heamoculus (sp? ) like 777 fire warriors or something.

What.

sorry was 77 and it was of each castes (codex dark eldar pg 18 first and second paragraph in the path of damnation bit )

Also the Dark Eldar did not actually tell the Tau why they need "laision" officers

Well, maybe next time the Tau will learn not to accept deals from people who dress in all sombre colours and wear more spikes than you can shake a stick at.

Tyranids can potentially be the biggest threat, but currently they compete with IG for number of famous historic battles lost in their own codex.

The idea that Chaos can crush them if they stop being chaotic is utterly hilarious to me though.

kirsanth wrote:Tyranids can potentially be the biggest threat, but currently they compete with IG for number of famous historic battles lost in their own codex.

The idea that Chaos can crush them if they stop being chaotic is utterly hilarious to me though.

It would be if it hadnt already happend.... what was that thing called... hearsay?....nah that wasnt it... ah got it.... The horus heresy, The big E became a threat so they united and took him down a tad.

Its happened once, can happen again

kirsanth wrote:Tyranids can potentially be the biggest threat, but currently they compete with IG for number of famous historic battles lost in their own codex.

The idea that Chaos can crush them if they stop being chaotic is utterly hilarious to me though.

Formosa wrote:

Kain wrote:

Formosa wrote:if the chaos gods wanted to they would direct the primarchs and all the legions to wipe the nids out, simply put, tyranids are no threat to chaos, now if the chaos gods continue to just plod around and let the nids eat the universe piece meal... then they lose by a thousand cuts

Even assuming they could wipe out leviathan, which in of itself according to a map of it's assault on the galaxy is shown to be a significant fraction of the galaxy's width; so given that the mortal servants of Chaos number significantly less than the Imperium who are already having a hell of a time trying to stop Leviathan; this would be unlikely; the severely depleted Chaos Space marines and traitor guard who would be lucky to get away with less than 90% casualties, would be promptly swept away by the next hive fleet or anyone else who wanted them dead really.

There's a reason why most of the mortal servants of Chaos hide on daemon worlds and permanent warp rifts, their lack of numbers means they'd be crushed like ants by the much larger Imperium. And 100 grey knight terminators could beat Angron and 12 bloodthirsters, albeit after a very hard fight, and it is worth noting that Angron is probably the best remaining Primarch in physical combat (Both Sanguinus and Horus, who were capable of matching him, are now dead), I'm pretty sure 100 Hive Tyrants would rip him to shreds. And thus, any other Daemon Primarch really.

chaos is fractured because the gods want it that way, now if the chaos gods decided nids are a big enough threat they work together and send infinate deamons, billions of cultist/traitor guard and tens of thousands of space marines, not to mention all the Xenos races corrupted by chaos, if 1k space marines (with help from PDF and a Fleet of starships) can kill a tendril.. then leviathan will not be an issue to 10,000 + marines and there primarchs.

Yes 100 tyrants probably could kill a primarch, could it kill 5? 7? all of the deamon primarchs? what about there legions with them? and orbital support? and titans? traitor guard?... answer is hell no.

And all this without mentioning the biggest trump card (in my opinion) the dark mechanicus and the techno virus (which we know works on nids) these guys are not hamstinged like the loyalist ones, they will think nothing of developing weapons to nuke the nids

Then we have the Deamons, Khorne ones will be easy to bring in all the death and destruction, nurgle will feed of the rot and despair, tzeench will love the constant changing tactics and warfare and slaanesh will love the sensations of new ways to feel pain and die.

But back to topic, if chaos decides to off the nids... it will be totally one sided and nids go pop

if a hundred hive tyrants isn't working, just send more. The thing about the Tyranids is that they don't need to rely on singular heavy hitters because they will always be able to throw enough of something to stop that one big guy. 7 primarchs? So what? Have the combined psychic might of thousands of zoanthropes blasting you at once to the face. And the problem with the Virus is that tricks like that tend to only work on one major Tendril, then the rest are immune to it. Like Uriel Ventris' trick, which only worked once.

And there's the fact that all the mortal servants combined number far, far, far less than the entirety of the Imperium's military. If the eye of terror suddenly calmed and the Imperium decided it wanted the forces that were once hiding in it gone; the Traitor legions and Lost and Damned would be smushed, no questions asked. They don't have the numbers. And Daemons; going on Sondheim V's example, the Tyranids did pretty well even on a Daemon world, fighting the Daemons to a standstill.

And sure every Chaos Space marine can kill a thousand gaunts, but there's always another hundred billion in line. And of course, there's things like Genestealers which going by Dark Disciple can swat a Chaos Space marine's head off like a softball. Sure Khornate bezerkers are a match for Stealers if maybe a bit better, but for every Bezerker; there are billions of genestealers. They'll fight well and take down quite a lot, but in the end the few dozens of thousands of Bezerkers would drown in bodies and the hordes of melee organisms would just continue right on past.

Thousand sons? More Zoanthropes then there are Chaos Sorcerers in all of the legions combined by orders of magnitude. Generally the problem with Chaos is that on a macro scale they're outnumbered by pretty much everyone when it comes to mortal servitors, and the Chaos Daemons while theoretically infinite, have never deployed in numbers vast enough to ensure that you do not have enough ammo to take them all out, the Tyranids do; all the time in fact.

And of course; the followers of Chaos generally put their own lives somewhat above serving the dark gods in terms of things they value. There are exceptions like the Word Bearers and World Eaters, but most Chaos Space marines and guardsmen will break and run if things turn south faster than they'd like. So if the Black Legion was attacking a hive fleet and Abaddon is killed when he's attacked by far more bugs than he can handle; the majority of the black legion would end up going "Screw the dark gods, I wanna live!" and high tail it out of there.

And lastly, what are the traitor legions going to do when they've fired their last boltshell and there's still more tyranids barreling down at them then there are grains of sand on every beach and desert of present day earth? And it is worth noting, proportionally; the forces of Chaos have far fewer forgeworlds than the Imperium.

Additionally I'm kind of curious as to the viewpoint of the varying Chaos Legions on the Tyranids. We have Xereth's quote which indicates that they don't want to be cheated of their prize, and the Dawn of War 2 quotes indicate that they tend to think themselves superior until they start dying, and the Word Bearer's novels provide a bit of insight in how Chaos views it's rival in subverting citizens of the imperium (i;e genestealer cults). But otherwise we don't have much. Other than that one Warsmith being boneheaded enough to declare that he'd singlehandedly take on a Trygon, and predictably got killed and eaten.

Formosa wrote:And all this without mentioning the biggest trump card (in my opinion) the dark mechanicus and the techno virus (which we know works on nids) these guys are not hamstinged like the loyalist ones, they will think nothing of developing weapons to nuke the nids

What? IOM regularly nukes planets just cause they might be in the way of a hive fleet

okay we can use good old poster boy urial ventris as an example, he has something like 200 marines (some of another chapter) and the loal PDF and stops one half of liviathans thrust into the galaxy, he is only a captain,he used viral weapons to kill the norn queen with the help of the AD mech.

Now we have say.. Magnus the red (this part is theory) now tigger had tapped into the hive mind, he can predict someof there movements etc, Magnus is so much more powerful its a joke, so he does the same.

He finds the key splinter fleets and proceeds to take his ENTIRE 1k sons force to deal with them, with the usual Deamons and cult/traitors that follow.

So how do the nids deal with magnus and the 1k sons?
well we know it wont be 100 tyrants, otherwise thats all they would throw at everyone, same reason the entire nid race isnt built of biotitans, gaunts will be totally useless as he and his marines (fluff marines) pretty much make them useless, he can see the enemies movements and predict where they will attack. this is just magnus, 1 primach, he alone could bleed the hive fleets dry, stop there psy powers working on the battlefield and take on any creature they threw at him.

What about Mortarion or peturabo?
the later would just pick a planet in there path and bam... the nids cannot get any further.

With the traitor primarchs at the legions lead, they would be almost unstoppable, this combined with the fact they cannot actually be killed by nids (primarchs)

Formosa wrote: the techno virus (which we know worked on nids)

Fixed.
They have out-evolved worse, faster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do find it amusing that the best example of why Chaos can win, is the biggest fight they lost - to the people who think Tyranids may be a bigger threat than Chaos itself!

Formosa wrote:okay we can use good old poster boy urial ventris as an example, he has something like 200 marines (some of another chapter) and the loal PDF and stops one half of liviathans thrust into the galaxy, he is only a captain,he used viral weapons to kill the norn queen with the help of the AD mech.

Now we have say.. Magnus the red (this part is theory) now tigger had tapped into the hive mind, he can predict someof there movements etc, Magnus is so much more powerful its a joke, so he does the same.

He finds the key splinter fleets and proceeds to take his ENTIRE 1k sons force to deal with them, with the usual Deamons and cult/traitors that follow.

So how do the nids deal with magnus and the 1k sons?
well we know it wont be 100 tyrants, otherwise thats all they would throw at everyone, same reason the entire nid race isnt built of biotitans, gaunts will be totally useless as he and his marines (fluff marines) pretty much make them useless, he can see the enemies movements and predict where they will attack. this is just magnus, 1 primach, he alone could bleed the hive fleets dry, stop there psy powers working on the battlefield and take on any creature they threw at him.

What about Mortarion or peturabo?
the later would just pick a planet in there path and bam... the nids cannot get any further.

With the traitor primarchs at the legions lead, they would be almost unstoppable, this combined with the fact they cannot actually be killed by nids (primarchs)

The primarchs have been punked before by a hundred grey knights. Angron lead pretty much the whole of the World Eater's legion onto Armageddon, and he lost. Uriel only won because of that one trick, were it not for that his troops would have simply been overwhelmed and destroyed. Behemoth was only beaten because the Dominus Astra blew itself up to take out the fleet, and that was only after the Imperium sent pretty much the entirety of Segmentum Fleet Tempustus, and Hive Fleet Behemoth *still* outnumbered them by a good margin.

The forces of Chaos don't have the amount of ships to try that, and generally speaking most of them are much too cowardly to ever try blowing themselves up like that. Pretty much every time the Nids have been beaten, it's because they lost in space. If the Tyranids are allowed to retain space superiority or supremacy, they will win through sheer attrition as they'll have a literally endless supply of reinforcements on the ground.

So to defeat Chaos each time all they have to do is sweep away the Chaos Fleet in orbit (rather easy to do; Chaos simply cannot muster ships in numbers like the Imperium can with the same ease) and then just rain down bugs until all the crazies on the planet are dead. It worked on Forgefane and Sybaris, it can work anywhere.

Formosa wrote:

Kain wrote:

Formosa wrote:if the chaos gods wanted to they would direct the primarchs and all the legions to wipe the nids out, simply put, tyranids are no threat to chaos, now if the chaos gods continue to just plod around and let the nids eat the universe piece meal... then they lose by a thousand cuts

Even assuming they could wipe out leviathan, which in of itself according to a map of it's assault on the galaxy is shown to be a significant fraction of the galaxy's width; so given that the mortal servants of Chaos number significantly less than the Imperium who are already having a hell of a time trying to stop Leviathan; this would be unlikely; the severely depleted Chaos Space marines and traitor guard who would be lucky to get away with less than 90% casualties, would be promptly swept away by the next hive fleet or anyone else who wanted them dead really.

There's a reason why most of the mortal servants of Chaos hide on daemon worlds and permanent warp rifts, their lack of numbers means they'd be crushed like ants by the much larger Imperium. And 100 grey knight terminators could beat Angron and 12 bloodthirsters, albeit after a very hard fight, and it is worth noting that Angron is probably the best remaining Primarch in physical combat (Both Sanguinus and Horus, who were capable of matching him, are now dead), I'm pretty sure 100 Hive Tyrants would rip him to shreds. And thus, any other Daemon Primarch really.

chaos is fractured because the gods want it that way, now if the chaos gods decided nids are a big enough threat they work together and send infinate deamons, billions of cultist/traitor guard and tens of thousands of space marines, not to mention all the Xenos races corrupted by chaos, if 1k space marines (with help from PDF and a Fleet of starships) can kill a tendril.. then leviathan will not be an issue to 10,000 + marines and there primarchs.


Yes 100 tyrants probably could kill a primarch, could it kill 5? 7? all of the deamon primarchs? what about there legions with them? and orbital support? and titans? traitor guard?... answer is hell no.

And all this without mentioning the biggest trump card (in my opinion) the dark mechanicus and the techno virus (which we know works on nids) these guys are not hamstinged like the loyalist ones, they will think nothing of developing weapons to nuke the nids

Then we have the Deamons, Khorne ones will be easy to bring in all the death and destruction, nurgle will feed of the rot and despair, tzeench will love the constant changing tactics and warfare and slaanesh will love the sensations of new ways to feel pain and die.

But back to topic, if chaos decides to off the nids... it will be totally one sided and nids go pop

The point is, there are unlimited daemons and unlimited tyranids in the galaxy. We will never know who would win unless GW decides to write some fluff, or we could have all CSM and Chaos Daemon players vs all Tyranid players in a huge apoc battle.

Yeah just look at the Gothic war and youll see how easy it is for the muster of IOM ships. Oh wait, Chaos had way more ships then the IOM, not to mention they kept gainin ships cause gaurdsmen and other people started worshipping the Dark Gods. Once people see that the Dark Gods servants are protectin them and that the IOM forces have retreated the entire world joins the Chaos side. Means that daemons will pop up everywhere.

to be fair 100 grey knight termies taking out angron and his thirsters is badass, unfortunately nids have nothing that can do this.

Fluff termies vs fluff BT and angron, fluff nids havent a chance

I mean fluff stealers vs normal fluff termies is a uphill battle, let alone Gk ones

The way I see it, it's either the necrons help deal with this problem, or the ultramarines will have to do amazingly well and be ready to sacrifice more than just their first company. Also, we seem to be forgetting that there could be hundreds of times as many 'nids out there, just waiting to see how the smaller fleets fare!

I would have to say that hands down Chaos would win the battle. I'd think that if they really were trying to eradicate Nids on a mass scale, it wouldn't be a conventional war. It would have to be all the Gods working together towards the goal which could be achieved very easily.

Magnus and Mortarion with their legion of body guards could (with all 4 Chaos gods supporting them) teleport into a hive fleet and lay down Papa Nurgle's biggest baddest disease ever, and simply teleport back home. I'm sure Nurgle would love the idea of having to continueously come up with new diseases to get rid of the little nids.

Chaos also would not fight a traditional war vs the Nids. Their main goal is never to just eradicate someone, it's to open new warp holes. Nids are smart when it comes to tactics and genome but they are dumb when it comes to the overall scheme. While the Daemon Primarchs and Legions of SM/Traitors fought off the horde (which would traditionally lose) they would have every battlefield open into a giant Warp Rift. Eventually, that Warp Rift would consume the planet and space around it, sucking the whole hive fleet into the Warp. Do the CSM forces die? No, that is their homefield, that is where their gods live and play. Who would than die? The Nids.

Think of it that way, that the whole goal of every fight would be opening up a Rift to the Warp that the Nids would get sucked into (being dumb and always attacking head on), Chaos would win in the end. Just make 5 "Eye of Terrors" where the Tyranids are entering the galaxy. If the Nids got smart of this strategy, the only answer would be "leave this galaxy and find a new one" thus: Chaos 1 Nids 0

I am confused why this is now a "Chaos would destroy everything that could face it!" thread.

Apparently people think Chaos disregards the Tyranids since they are obviously incapable of losing.

Well, this is certainly bizarre. I can only assume that Formosa is a Chaos player? I am also a Chaos player, and a Tyranid player. Preaching about the unrealistic success of either faction is just plain silly. I could play Tau, and I wouldn't start saying about how amazing Firewarriors are in close combat.

Yes, Uriel defeated Leviathan. A teeny, tiny, teensy piece of Leviathan. Leviathan alone is shown to be longer than the Milky Way is wide - it's so long, that on the star map Kain mentioned, the bulk of it is off the edge of the picture, and yet it's still longer than the Milky Way and about 1/5 the thickness. That is one single solitary Hive Fleet. Even if they are the largest, which they might not be, it gets slightly ridiculous when you count the potential other Hive Fleets that are approaching the galaxy.

So no, Chaos do not outnumber Tyranids, don't be silly. Nobody outnumbers the Tyranids, not even Orks.

As for daemons - the reason why we never see the potential limitless amount of daemons is because each daemon represents a sliver of their God's power. Just as it is impossible for one of the Gods to break into the Materium without expending much of their power and vastly weakening themselves, so too can they not simply spam daemons at everything until they win. That's not how daemons work. Also, Tyranids are still superior to daemons in every way. Oh, and did you forget the Shadow in the Warp, which fluff-wise is basically Grey Knight levels of anti-daemon?

Chaos Marines negate the use of gaunts. Somewhat. You're forgetting the purpose of gaunts. Even in the assault on Macragge - just one planet, just one attack, just one piece of one fleet - there were billions of them. They caused definite trouble for Space Marines, and this was their home turf.

The other thing about Tyranids is that, unlike other factions, they are not limited to unit types. Of course, their codex units and the famous ones (from Genestealers to Tyrants to Gaunts to Lictors) are a limited list, but in fluff? In fluff, the Tyranids are able to so rapidly produce a creature designed for a specific purpose that their ability to adapt and overcome is unmatched. The origin story of Venomthropes, for example. Not that Tyranids have had any specific trouble with Marines at all in the past...

In fluff, Genestealers are the bane of Terminators. Of course, fluff varies so greatly in its depictions of things, but generally, Genestealers beat everything in close combat. They're also far stealthier than they are in the game, and Lictors are actually effective.

Chaos is vastly outnumbered and outgunned by the Imperium. They don't have more ships - sure, they get the occasional traitors, but 50%+ of all ships built/crewed definitely do not defect. For every hundred ships, maybe one goes to Chaos - being super-generous. In order for Chaos to have more ships, it'd have to be more like the other way around, which would be completely stupid on part of the Imperium.

As for the "100 Tyrants" thing; no, they wouldn't spam 100 Tyrants. They'd use the equivalent biomass to make something else worth even more, like a biotitan with ridiculous psychic powers and enough guns to make Gork and Mork stop punching each other to stare in awe for a few minutes.

An Imperial Titan might kill ten biotitans before it is destroyed. However, that Titan is irreplaceable. The biotitans? They get broken down and put back together, good as new.

Was it Eldrad who predicted that all the races would need to band together to survive the entirety of the Tyranids? I'm not up on my Eldar fluff, but I know somebody did.

I'm not saying that the Tyranids are the best at everything. They're not. Nor are Tau Firewarriors going to win in close combat. I really don't understand how people have to take their armies so personally, and talk about how they auto-win at everything ever.

Just to put things in perspective; Chaos have trouble with Catachan. On its own.

EDIT: As am I, kirsanth. As am I. "Lol Warp Rift" - why don't they do that for every conflict? Think about it. Also, uh, Shadow in the Warp.

I agree with this one.

I think Ocean nailed it. And now for other races before we focus too much on just one single species.

Reading path of the seer has made me wonder, what does the Hive mind look like on the Skein?

Like Pac-man chasing a little cartoon stick-elf.

OH GOD HE'S EATEN A CHERRY

ima Dark angels player not a chaos player lol

When did the Urial thing change or get retconned? is there still 2 leviathan tedrils coming into the galaxy trapping the systems inbetween them? if it hasnt he nuked 1 half of leviathan, the other was re-directed into the ork empire.

Anywho to your main points.

Neveer said chaos outnumber nids, just there are billions of traitor guard/cultists

Leviathan on the map is not to scale

Shadow in the warp only diswades minor deamons, i believe you mean the qoute where they are fleeing from it or something.

Nids have had massive trouble with marines in the past, but these are mainly "mary sue marines" to be fair

The hive mind wouldnt spawn 100 tyrants i agree, it would spawn biotitans and what not, not sure if your aware of it though but in the primarchs book Fulgrim turns a warhounds insides into a glob of flesh... you know the primarch that isnt know for being a psyker... now think what magnus being boosted by tzeench could do, not to mention knowing where the nids are and what they are going to do... cant fight that, the nids numbers mean nothing when all there synapse creatures are dead.

Chaos fleet: i assume you are unaware of battlefleet gothic and how chaos builds its own ships etc. chaos have a massive fleet, and the planet killer, this alone makes ground combat pointless.

Battle of macragge: did they ret-con this one too, if not is was not one little fleet, it was a massive one, after being killed, a 2nd showed up and the rest is history.

To be fair i am underestimating the traitor primarch and there abilities, nids have absolutly NO counter for these guys, they will be out smarted out manueverd out fought at every turn, constant hit and run attacks on the hive fleets will bleed them dry, and if all else fails... planet killer nuked planet and takes out there food source.

Frozen Ocean wrote:EDIT: As am I, kirsanth. As am I. "Lol Warp Rift" - why don't they do that for every conflict? Think about it. Also, uh, Shadow in the Warp.

They try, just about every time. That is the freaking point of almost every one of their attacks, is to open a Rift big enough for another eye of terror. In a campaign where all of Chaos was banned together an all 4 Gods were behind them (which I said, and hasn't ever really happened outside of HH) I'm sure something like that would be capable and extremely effective. Now whether or not humans, eldar, or other outside forces would come in and try to stop it is an unknown factor. I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote: I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

He obviusly hasnt met the orks!!!!

willhman wrote:

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote: I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

He obviusly hasnt met the orks!!!!

Lol i concede this is so true


I'd imagine that the other factions would sit back and watch these 2 power houses go at each other and lol alot at the destruction... well at least untill it land on there doorstep

Formosa wrote:

willhman wrote:

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote: I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

He obviusly hasnt met the orks!!!!

Lol i concede this is so true


I'd imagine that the other factions would sit back and watch these 2 power houses go at each other and lol alot at the destruction... well at least untill it land on there doorstep

Orks would attack regardless, because a three way fight iz even better than a two way. And then the Imperium, in all of it's "strategic-genius" would attack to try and eliminate both, the Eldar would meddle as they always do, the Dark Eldar would come in and swoop away some slaves, and the Necrons would bump in because Trazyn needs more things for his collection.

Kain wrote:The Chaos gods are incapable of entering the materium without expending so much of their energy that they'd become easy prey for the other three. I wouldn't count out the Eldar Gods if most of them weren't you know...dead or broken. And a fully formed C'Tan might do the trick, or one Imperator Titan/Abominus Titan/Mega-Gargant/Medusa V Tomb Stalker.

100 Hive Tyrants would be nothing to a fully formed C'tan. They eat stars, so 100 Hive Tyrants would be crushed like ants.

McNinja wrote:

Kain wrote:The Chaos gods are incapable of entering the materium without expending so much of their energy that they'd become easy prey for the other three. I wouldn't count out the Eldar Gods if most of them weren't you know...dead or broken. And a fully formed C'Tan might do the trick, or one Imperator Titan/Abominus Titan/Mega-Gargant/Medusa V Tomb Stalker.

100 Hive Tyrants would be nothing to a fully formed C'tan. They eat stars, so 100 Hive Tyrants would be crushed like ants.

That's why I'd say they'd do the trick. The C'tan at their peak were like an army of Galactuses...Galactusen...Galacti...Galac-Feth it.

Yeah, but when's a C'tan actually going to be there to stop them? The necrons don't want to give them power again!

The Necrons have advantages the Tyranids don't in battle, namely that their weapons often leave nothing behind, so every Tyranid casualty is destroyed on an atomic level, leaving no biomass for the Hive to consume and, when they fall, the Necrons leave nothing behind to be consumed.

The Necrons can also stage attacks from hyper-dimensional space, which the Tyranids seem to lack any way of accessing, and can use their Dolmen Gates to bring reinforcements from across the galaxy in a relatively short span of time (implied to be hours, at most, if the Tomb on the far end is active).

This isn't to say that the Necrons are a perfect counter to the Nids, as Tomb Worlds have fallen, but as far as the typical Tyranid tactic goes, the Necrons might be the best chance the galaxy has at stopping them.

I think that all the necrons active in the galaxy versus all the tyranids in the galaxy would easily give victory to the necrons. However, there could be a thousand times as many tyranids simply waiting outside, to see what happens. These also versus the nerons... well, I don't see much hope for the galaxy.

Psienesis wrote:The Necrons have advantages the Tyranids don't in battle, namely that their weapons often leave nothing behind, so every Tyranid casualty is destroyed on an atomic level, leaving no biomass for the Hive to consume and, when they fall, the Necrons leave nothing behind to be consumed.

When a necron falls, isn't there still the metal shells. Pryovores follow the swarm, consuing metals and harder materials that the more common creatures couldn't digest. They could devourer the dead necrons so could survive a war with them.

No, generally the metal phases out. after a battle with necrons, you'd be lucky to find a single little finger of a single fallen enemy.

On another question if Craftworld Ulthwe, Biel-tan, or Alaitoc was attacked by a swarm on the level of the force that struck at Iyanden, what would they need to do to not take as heavy losses as Iyanden did?

Fight a running battle in deep-space and use the Webway for hit-and-run tactics. Make heavy use of the Eldar plasma torpedoes that leave no biomass behind for the fleet to consume. Force the Hive to follow you, expending biomass as it goes, and dry-gulch them in deep space with no planets nearby to feed from.

Snipe, with torpedos, the narvhals, stranding the fleet between systems, forcing the fleet to use up biomass creating new narvhals.

In short, follow the Eldar path of feints, trickery and deceit in battle, attacking from ambush, strike-and-fade, and never, ever let yourself get bogged down in a set battle with the Hive Fleet.

I take it that the Eldar have learned their lesson from Iyanden? Would any of those three craftworlds be apt to call in help from the fleets of the others? And would said other craftworlds be willing to spare the resources? They for whatever reason, seemed to avoid doing so for Iyanden after all.

If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

On a quick note, chaos wont unite.
Well, any of the 4 main ones wont anyway.

The chaos gods have had issues before in the past and the last time they united was to bring tzeentch down, which resulted in him smashing his crystal staff of power as a peace offering. (didnt want another god to weild the same power he did)
If they were to go on an all out attack, it would leave forces drained and leave then vulnerable to another god removing them from power.


This is from the daemons codex btw

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Ya you get teeth, but there wouldn't me much to spend it on. Would there?

That's a bit harder to think of because I'm not 100% on the differences between tau and imperial communications. What effect would the warp shadow have on the tau.

nomotog wrote:

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Ya you get teeth, but there wouldn't me much to spend it on. Would there?

That's a bit harder to think of because I'm not 100% on the differences between tau and imperial communications. What effect would the warp shadow have on the tau.

The orks can create their own technology, not all of it is looted after all, and the Mekboy needs to make a living doesn't he?

As for the Tau, I think it's conceivable that the Tyranids could evolve an organism that could disrupt non warp based communications via generating electromagnetic interference. After all it shouldn't take too much to adapt the bio-electricity of the trygons to disrupt vox links.

The orks woould loot the tyranids bodies. Use their carapaces for armor\ammunition, the arms would become the orks new cc weapons, and their meat would become food for the greentide. Bones just more weapons.

They orks have a use for everything. They use everything at their disposole. They may be alot of things but wastefull is not one of them/

Poor Chaos. Nobody loves us anymore. Always getting the short end of the stick.

Anyways, why do we even have these threads? "If all of X fought all of Y" always ends up with people getting butthurt and faction prejudice entering into it. Who cares?

For the sake of the topic though, I suppose every other race views the Tyranids just like the Imperium does. The Tyranids are a threat to everyone, what else is there to view?

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Ya you get teeth, but there wouldn't me much to spend it on. Would there?

That's a bit harder to think of because I'm not 100% on the differences between tau and imperial communications. What effect would the warp shadow have on the tau.

The orks can create their own technology, not all of it is looted after all, and the Mekboy needs to make a living doesn't he?

As for the Tau, I think it's conceivable that the Tyranids could evolve an organism that could disrupt non warp based communications via generating electromagnetic interference. After all it shouldn't take too much to adapt the bio-electricity of the trygons to disrupt vox links.

Still I think most of it is looted or made from looted parts. A mechboy is going to have a hard time making a shoota with no metal. Then again, they would be able to make some kind of weapon from nid parts. Maybe they are able to breed squigs with tyanids to get some kind of crazy sporemine squig. Willhman mentioned armor and chappas too. Try picturing it and tell me that's not a cool character.

I never would have thought of that. It's a cool idea. When it comes to tyranid/tau interaction I always think of the plot for that alien movie/game. I just picture the tau trying to control and enhance different tyranids. It wouldn't go well of course. These plans are never ment to work, but it would make a neat story.

For there shoota ammunition it would be small bones\spines of the tryranids.

For rockets it would be gaunts packed with explosives. Robotic parts would be just parts of the nids that would be from catnifaxes.

Shootin isnt the issue here, Orks are really bad at firing so they could just use rocks and they would still do more damage then they are now. Just as long as the get that nice recoul.

Though I do agree, an ork Boss with Tyranid armor would look like a real Boss!!!

I have to say, I am amazed that nobody's brought up a looted tyranid monstrous/gargantuan creature pic yet.

Edit: NEVER MIND I FOUND ONE



I've also read this person's fascinating article on his Tau Tyranid hunter Cadre. http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?p=202087#p202087 Fanon it may be, but it is a good read.

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

Yea! Dem nids ain't got no dakka! But dey sure do 'av lotz o' teef!

Now I want to make rules for looted monstrous creatures...

That would be awesome. Looted C'tan, looted Carnifexes, looted Tomb Spyders, looted Dreadknights... the possibilities are endless.

How about looted Wraithlords? I'm sure that the orks could come up with their own version of a soul stone...

Chaos has a heavy reliance on summoned Daemons, Daemon engines and the like for major incursions into material realm so I can imagine that the Shadow bought by the Tyranid fleet causes major issues here. There just wouldn't be a large enough Chaos force in one place at one time to deal with a whole hive fleet.

The reason why Black Crusades are as successful (they are successful, have faith ) as they are is because they have a central point that they can all mass at and concentrate on, being the Eye. They lose steam when they fragment and Warlords and Champions go off on their own jollies.

If the Tyranid ever developed a way to break down warp essence that never returned to the warp, then Chaos would have even more issues. Not sure that is something that could ever happen though.

I can see Necrons all getting together with their many C'tan Shards and unleashing their power only to have each formed part of the C'tan look at each other, reform and then turn on the Necrons

I think even a C'tan though would get destroyed by shear weight of numbers eventually.

Personally I think the Tyranid will be the doom of all the races eventually in 40k.

I'm now curious as to how the Tau deal with genestealers, or if they are even capable of detecting Genestealer cults before the hive fleets come to eat some blueies.

I expect the etherials would be able to work out who's infected. Whether they mind-control their subordinates or simply massively inspire them, it wouldn't work on semi-genestealers, and they'd be able to work it out before it was too late.

p_gray99 wrote:I expect the etherials would be able to work out who's infected. Whether they mind-control their subordinates or simply massively inspire them, it wouldn't work on semi-genestealers, and they'd be able to work it out before it was too late.

That's a good point actually.

But what if an Ethereal was one of the first infected?

Pilau Rice wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:I expect the etherials would be able to work out who's infected. Whether they mind-control their subordinates or simply massively inspire them, it wouldn't work on semi-genestealers, and they'd be able to work it out before it was too late.

That's a good point actually.

But what if an Ethereal was one of the first infected?

I suspect that if a Sept's ethereal was infected, the Tau would need to rely on Kroot and Vespid to liberate the world from the genestealer cult.

Kain wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:I expect the etherials would be able to work out who's infected. Whether they mind-control their subordinates or simply massively inspire them, it wouldn't work on semi-genestealers, and they'd be able to work it out before it was too late.

That's a good point actually.

But what if an Ethereal was one of the first infected?

I suspect that if a Sept's ethereal was infected, the Tau would need to rely on Kroot and Vespid to liberate the world from the genestealer cult.

Would the Sept find out though? If the Ethereal is able to control the Tau, maybe they could cover it up until the Hive fleet had arrived.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Kain wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:I expect the etherials would be able to work out who's infected. Whether they mind-control their subordinates or simply massively inspire them, it wouldn't work on semi-genestealers, and they'd be able to work it out before it was too late.

That's a good point actually.

But what if an Ethereal was one of the first infected?

I suspect that if a Sept's ethereal was infected, the Tau would need to rely on Kroot and Vespid to liberate the world from the genestealer cult.

Would the Sept find out though? If the Ethereal is able to control the Tau, maybe they could cover it up until the Hive fleet had arrived.

I think Ethereals have some sort of protocol to follow, and all ultimately still answer to Aun'Va.

Didn't something of the sort happened in a Cain novel?

What's the chances of an Ethereal being infected without everyone being warned beforehand? If they went out into any tunnels or other suspicious place where genestealers would lurk, they would bring a bodyguard of elite fire warriors. I'm not saying that the stealers wouldn't deal with them easily, but surely one of them would get a signal out?

willhman wrote:The orks woould loot the tyranids bodies. Use their carapaces for armor\ammunition, the arms would become the orks new cc weapons, and their meat would become food for the greentide. Bones just more weapons.

They orks have a use for everything. They use everything at their disposole. They may be alot of things but wastefull is not one of them/

I've got this image in my head of an Ork sucking the worms out of a devourer, 'cause dey tickle as dey go down.

I have to agree with a what a few others have said about the necrons kinda being the perfect counter to the tyranids. And if they started losing they could just hide out in the alternate dimension they hang out in and wait for the hive fleets to move on to the next galaxy.

Same for the Dark Eldar and Chaos. They both have safe places to retreat to, can do raids to cook up some nids for food, and wait for the hive fleets to move on.

But in the end I would expect the orks and nids to be stuck in an eternal stalemate of glorious combat and eating.

By the times the nids have moved on, everything would be dead. And both Chaos amd the Dark Eldar would die without mortals to feed on.

kirsanth wrote:Didn't something of the sort happened in a Cain novel?

yep

Kain wrote:By the times the nids have moved on, everything would be dead. And both Chaos amd the Dark Eldar would die without mortals to feed on.

Wouldn't Chaos just be less active - the warp powers would still be there just fairly dormant.

Dark Eldar will be canabilistic for quite some time (and keep feeding Slaanesh) and likely rear slave stock etc in their dark domains - with which they can repopulate the galaxy with to do unpleasent things to when the Tryanids head off whilst also kick starting the powers of the Warp again. Not a nice future but hey................

Chaos needs mortals to feed on, no mortals means no food, and they would starve and die.

Yeah, but I doubt it would ever get to that stage. The necrons would need to be defeated first, and by the time the dark eldar figured out that the nids were likely to win they would try to capture as many as possible for torture, which could seriously turn the tides.

Most Necrons have no emotions to feed Chaos, and the Lords generally hang around in null fields. And the last time the Dark Eldar tried to capture the Tyranids they got eaten by Hive Fleet Hydra.

Yes, however the 3rd edition codex said that genestealers were particular favourites in the wych cult gladiatorial arenas, and that wyches will go so some lengths to capture them.

Capturing Purestrain genestealers from small cults is one thing. Trying to subsist on Tyranids from a massive horde that outnumbers the stars themselves is something *completely* different.

Kain wrote:

What is the general ork viewpoint on the Tyranids? We know what they think about humans, with several quotes dedicated to most varieties of them, we know that the Orks have an extravagantly low opinion of the Eldar ("Aww it's just da Eldar...yoo can send 'alf da boyz 'ome..." ), they seem to regard the Tau far more for their guns than any combat ability, and think that the Necrons offer some great fighting, but what about the Tyranids? And do the Orks devote any special methods to fighting the "gribbliez" like they do with humans?

Well in the codex it doesnt mention anything about the orks relationship with the tyranids, but probably in pure orky fashion they probably see them as another race with who they can have a massive war with!

Well the Orks tend to have general opinions about each species. The Eldar they think are a bunch of pansies who can't man up and fight all nice and proppa. Humans are junk at fighting when they're caught in choppa range, but they've got nice kit. Space marines are dead 'ard, but there aren't enough of them to go around. Chaos boyz are the previous two but crazy. And the Tau are the humans but MORE so.

Kain wrote:Capturing Purestrain genestealers from small cults is one thing. Trying to subsist on Tyranids from a massive horde that outnumbers the stars themselves is something *completely* different.

Yes, but are you trying to say that the DE would just attack the nids like that? Of course, they'd single off a small ship, and then simply capture that, whole, using some sort of device to make everything inside go dormant and using clever maneuvering to make sure they weren't pursued by other nids.

p_gray99 wrote:

Kain wrote:Capturing Purestrain genestealers from small cults is one thing. Trying to subsist on Tyranids from a massive horde that outnumbers the stars themselves is something *completely* different.

Yes, but are you trying to say that the DE would just attack the nids like that? Of course, they'd single off a small ship, and then simply capture that, whole, using some sort of device to make everything inside go dormant and using clever maneuvering to make sure they weren't pursued by other nids.

These are the same people who attacked a full blown hive fleet and were surprised when it killed them.

No. You make the mistake of thinking that all DE are the same, and equal in brain power, and also that they don't learn. If Vect tricked Salamanders into helping him take over the dark city, he's plenty clever enough to use the tactics I described. After all, I'm only human, he's Vect.

The thing about the Tyranids is that they generally don't feel pain. Just because they don't have the feel no pain rule does not mean that they are susceptible to it. A hormagaunt that just had it's back snapped in half will still try to kill you. The Tyranids just don't *give* a damn about how much suffering you inflict on them because the Hive Mind just shuts off such silly things such as giving two damns about getting eviscerated and they have no souls for the dark eldar to drink.

On a side note, how do tyranids consider the other races?


They are delicious.

In a reply on how tyranids view the other races:

Eldar: Like those fancy meals where you pay a lot but don't get that much food
Dark Eldar: Like the above, but with more spikes
Marines: Crunchy
Grey Knights: Crunchy w. more cheese
IG: Buffet
Tau: Take out Japanese food with rail guns
Orks: They are like tripy mushrooms to a hive mind.
Necrons: Stale Bread
Chaos: (To be honest I'm having a hard time with this one)

p_gray99 wrote:

Kain wrote:Capturing Purestrain genestealers from small cults is one thing. Trying to subsist on Tyranids from a massive horde that outnumbers the stars themselves is something *completely* different.

Yes, but are you trying to say that the DE would just attack the nids like that? Of course, they'd single off a small ship, and then simply capture that, whole, using some sort of device to make everything inside go dormant and using clever maneuvering to make sure they weren't pursued by other nids.

Your making things too hard. The nids leave all kinds of creatures behind after they consume a planet. You just need to go to the planet and clean up after the fleet has passed.

Necronboy wrote:Chaos: (To be honest I'm having a hard time with this one)

Khornate: Dats-a-spicy meat-a-ball!
Slaaneshi: Creamy.
Nurgleite: Has this gone off?
Tzneechian: Does this taste funny to you?
Undivided: The warp, tastes like the warp.

Also, do you think Tankbustas would attatch the same level of pride to say a carnifex kill as they would to bringing down a tank?

And what's the Eldar word for "Tyranid."? Additionally, I'm interested in Eldar-Tyranid reactions, anyone have any speculation or information on that other than the Auerelian war, Naga, and Iyanden?

Kain wrote:Also, do you think Tankbustas would attatch the same level of pride to say a carnifex kill as they would to bringing down a tank?

And what's the Eldar word for "Tyranid."? Additionally, I'm interested in Eldar-Tyranid reactions, anyone have any speculation or information on that other than the Auerelian war, Naga, and Iyanden?

For the tank bustas I think they see a tank as harder to kill then a carnifex. and for the eldar-tyranids I dont have the codex with me (tyranids) but I know there are a few storys for eldar conflict with tyranids.

Ah interesting. But a regenreating, armoured shell Carnifex would probably be harder than most tanks.

Yes, but that's not how orks would see it. Metal is harder and, well, more metallic than a shell, so must therefore be harder to kill. Simple, see? You just have to look at it right.

I'd imagine that a tankbusta would still shoot at Carnifexes, Tyrannofexes and Trygons and the like if confronted by Tyranids. And also "tanking up" would probably take a lot longer on account of all the meat they'd need to eat.

Kain wrote:Chaos needs mortals to feed on, no mortals means no food, and they would starve and die.

Chaos doesn't eat mortals. Chaos is created by the emotions and thoughts of mortals. Think of the warp as a giant ocean. The mortal's emotions are moisture/heat that feed hurricanes. Without land masses to break them up, they just keep going and going and going.

If a few mortals survive, and many would in the Eye of Terror and similar maelstroms, then some bit of the warp gods remain.

Frazzled wrote:

Kain wrote:Chaos needs mortals to feed on, no mortals means no food, and they would starve and die.

Chaos doesn't eat mortals. Chaos is created by the emotions and thoughts of mortals. Think of the warp as a giant ocean. The mortal's emotions are moisture/heat that feed hurricanes. Without land masses to break them up, they just keep going and going and going.

If a few mortals survive, and many would in the Eye of Terror and similar maelstroms, then some bit of the warp gods remain.

Without the emotions of the mortals in the rest of the galaxy, those maelstroms would start to fade due to a massive decrease in the power of Chaos, and the Tyranids would eat the people now left in the open, and they'd continue to fade until they disappeared, and then the Tyranids would strip them of everything to. The only ones who can conceivably survive the Tyranids stripping the galaxy clean are the Necrons, because they have enough worlds with absolutely nothing on them to eat and no need for the living to avoid being destroyed.

Enough of this Heresy! The Hive Mind is the strongest and largest organism ever to exist and could destroy a thousand Magnus' because it is the size of at least one galaxy, possibly more. That's right, galaxy. Much like the one currently shared by the iom, chaos, necrons, orks, eldar, dark eldar, and hundreds of other races. The only reason that warhammer fluff still continues is because the Tyranids have only been in the galaxy for about 250 years, and even then they have made one hell of a mess of it. If the Hive Mind didn't absolutely shut down anything that accesses the warp, I have no doubt it could contend with the Chaos Gods or even, dare I say it, the Emperor of freaking mankind. Also I'm not totally sure on this one, but I don't even believe that Mortarion could even teleport into a swarm because
A:He no doubt knows it would be a suicide mission
B: You know that whole anti-psyker shadow of the warp guy? Yeah, that little devil times untold thousands.

And I'm not sure where you heard that Tyranids are dumb, but they're actually the most adaptable race in the universe. Granted, Orks and Tau give them a run for their money, but the Tyranids will always prevail and the only reason they've been beaten so far is because these hive fleets are forward scouts for the forward scouts of the vanguard. merely tendrils of tendrils of tendrils that have totally encompassed the galaxy and now probe in from all angles. Honestly, I thin the onle reason that the Hive Mind isn't stated as the strongest organism in existence is because there's been no need. Think of it like the Tyranid's god: the Ork's Gork, the Eldar's Khaine, the Human's emperor. the only difference is that it is in reality, sitting just out of sight, laughing as it pokes and prods and thinks about the day that it comes in spits into the Eye of Terror, purely because he knows it can. when thinking about the Tyranid's strength, just remember that their first incursion, the very first encounter with our galaxy, was Behemoth. That little guy who got right up in that Imperium and did obscene things with it's "Ultra"marines.

Wow, I just read that first page and was so overcome with Khorne-like rage that I didn't even notice there were three others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for these comparisons between hive tyrants and primarchs or C'tan, you're saying that the Guard will always beat the orks because the emperor could take a hundred nobs in close combat. there's a reason there's only ten primarchs- theyr'e gods among men. try comparing them to something a little more to scale on the Tyranid spectrum. Sure the C'tan eat stars, but the Hive mind eats galaxies. It would be a legendary fight, but the Tyranids would win.

Also, it has now been confirmed in the fluff that the Tyranids fleets that have entered the galaxy are splinters of a far, far more massive fleet that is still stretched out across the intergalactic void.

That's not really that new, but that massive, uber-fleet will probably never, ever arrive in the 40K narrative.

Yes, I think the current fluff stands at 999.M41 and it's not likely the rulebooks or codices will advance the date. More likely, they'll work backwards and flesh out the history. I heard that the novels go as far as 500.M42, though.

Psienesis wrote:That's not really that new, but that massive, uber-fleet will probably never, ever arrive in the 40K narrative.

Actually, it wouldadd to the grimdark when everything just goes to he'll. The emperor dies, the fleet arrives, chaos has another crusade, etc. I don't think GW realizes that they can go to M42 and still call it warhammer 40,000 because it will then actually be 40,000 years in the future.

That's really what I was expecting in 6th. All the 5th edition codices hinted that all of their armies have been getting significantly stronger, and I thought the new edition would mark the beginning of the end.

Orks- Just more stuff to fight.

Eldar- A grave threat, basically the same as the Imperium.

Chaos: Mostly more blood to spill for the Blood God, since Tyranids are on the opposite side of the galaxy from the Eye Of Terror.

Dark Eldar: More lifeforms to torture and preform creepy experiments on.

Tau: Same as Imperium or Eldar, but more so, as the Tyranids stand a good chance of devouring the entire Tau Empire.