With 6th edition rules on it's way, many people are wondering how the game will change this time.
So, what would people here on dakka dakka like to see in the new rules?

Less whining and gnashing of teeth?

/sarcasm

No more crazy wound allocation.

It would be nice to have a better wounding method, and I would also like to see a slightly less OP ID usage, as it doesn't feel right that a 5-wound MC or special character can just be killed in one small blow...

Haven't we already done this????

I agree with Solo however, a change to Wound Allocation please.

Over-watch please, my Guard would love that back
Nothing better that having you move into my line of fire then being withered to nothing due to big bullets coming towards you and you not being able to do any thing about it. I would bring back some form of tactics to the game if you know that a lane of movement has been closed down and you have to think of an alternative rout to my squishy Guard

Sounds good, but it would kinda overpower CC armies like orks and nids, with the current playstyle..
Maybe if those models were cheaper...

I would like to replace the FoC with percentages. It would scale much better then the current system of fixed slots.

Vehicles should be able to split fire. Maybe just 2 targets a turn for a single vehicles(+1 for PotMS) It would make vehicles with anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons(most vehicles) to be alot more useful.

Heck, i'd like to see anyone be able to split fire. I'm sick of my guys with bolters doing nothing while their missile fires at a far off vehicle when there is enemy infantry within bolter range.

So long as 6th retains the majority of how 5th works, while changing things like vehicles and wound allocation to fix problems, I'm happy.

What I don't want is Warhammer 40k: fantasy edition.

Grey Templar wrote:I would like to replace the FoC with percentages. It would scale much better then the current system of fixed slots.

Vehicles should be able to split fire. Maybe just 2 targets a turn for a single vehicles(+1 for PotMS) It would make vehicles with anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons(most vehicles) to be alot more useful.

Heck, i'd like to see anyone be able to split fire. I'm sick of my guys with bolters doing nothing while their missile fires at a far off vehicle when there is enemy infantry within bolter range.

I like that idea, I've always been annoyed at how a vehicle that has 1 man per gun cant fire at multiple targets, as if they are all just one very small brain...

Ribon Fox wrote:Over-watch please, my Guard would love that back
Nothing better that having you move into my line of fire then being withered to nothing due to big bullets coming towards you and you not being able to do any thing about it. I would bring back some form of tactics to the game if you know that a lane of movement has been closed down and you have to think of an alternative rout to my squishy Guard

I don't see why we need overwatch. With orders we can advance on an enemy unit and fire off 140 lasgun shots from a 50 man blob at close range. TBH Guard needs to be nerfed if anything, with vets, vendettas, and Chimeras probably being the top ten units in the game for their type.

Or some clever sod could just heavy bolter spam the lot of you XD

EDIT: Or auto cannons, or lascannons... Guard don't like being spammed by anything, they are about being the spammers! XP

A balanced game. Is that too much to ask?

Luke_Prowler wrote:A balanced game. Is that too much to ask?

Yes.

Removal of KP's

Adjusted vehicle shooting rules

More infantry actions (digging in, gapping obstacles, spotting for other units/artillery/etc)

More mission types/assymetrical objectives (one player may have Sieze Ground, the other may have Annihilation, etc)

Real flyer rules rather than them being hamfisted Fast Skimmers with several additional SR's tacked on.

FNP 5+

More cover 5+ (Ruins remain 4+ ideally)

No more wound allocation.

Buttons wrote:

Ribon Fox wrote:Over-watch please, my Guard would love that back
Nothing better that having you move into my line of fire then being withered to nothing due to big bullets coming towards you and you not being able to do any thing about it. I would bring back some form of tactics to the game if you know that a lane of movement has been closed down and you have to think of an alternative rout to my squishy Guard

I don't see why we need overwatch. With orders we can advance on an enemy unit and fire off 140 lasgun shots from a 50 man blob at close range. TBH Guard needs to be nerfed if anything, with vets, vendettas, and Chimeras probably being the top ten units in the game for their type.

Yeah, foot guard is just too strong.

Testify wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Ribon Fox wrote:Over-watch please, my Guard would love that back
Nothing better that having you move into my line of fire then being withered to nothing due to big bullets coming towards you and you not being able to do any thing about it. I would bring back some form of tactics to the game if you know that a lane of movement has been closed down and you have to think of an alternative rout to my squishy Guard

I don't see why we need overwatch. With orders we can advance on an enemy unit and fire off 140 lasgun shots from a 50 man blob at close range. TBH Guard needs to be nerfed if anything, with vets, vendettas, and Chimeras probably being the top ten units in the game for their type.

Yeah, foot guard is just too strong.

It isn't too strong, especially not compared to Mech Guard, the main reason it is good is that people expect to face Mech Guard so are overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you plan to fight an army of terminators and end up fighting a green tide, odds are you won't do well. Pretty much foot guard is good because the meta is mechanized.


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Wrakkar wrote:Or some clever sod could just heavy bolter spam the lot of you XD

EDIT: Or auto cannons, or lascannons... Guard don't like being spammed by anything, they are about being the spammers! XP

Not many people use heavy bolters in the mech meta, and lascannons are pretty meaningless against foot guard. Oh you killed a single guardsman with that lascannon, it hurts so much.</sarcasm>

Buttons wrote:

Testify wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Ribon Fox wrote:Over-watch please, my Guard would love that back
Nothing better that having you move into my line of fire then being withered to nothing due to big bullets coming towards you and you not being able to do any thing about it. I would bring back some form of tactics to the game if you know that a lane of movement has been closed down and you have to think of an alternative rout to my squishy Guard

I don't see why we need overwatch. With orders we can advance on an enemy unit and fire off 140 lasgun shots from a 50 man blob at close range. TBH Guard needs to be nerfed if anything, with vets, vendettas, and Chimeras probably being the top ten units in the game for their type.

Yeah, foot guard is just too strong.

It isn't too strong, especially not compared to Mech Guard, the main reason it is good is that people expect to face Mech Guard so are overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you plan to fight an army of terminators and end up fighting a green tide, odds are you won't do well. Pretty much foot guard is good because the meta is mechanized.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wrakkar wrote:Or some clever sod could just heavy bolter spam the lot of you XD

EDIT: Or auto cannons, or lascannons... Guard don't like being spammed by anything, they are about being the spammers! XP

Not many people use heavy bolters in the mech meta, and lascannons are pretty meaningless against foot guard. Oh you killed a single guardsman with that lascannon, it hurts so much.</sarcasm>

Unless someone planned for both, and brought large blasts with high strength


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Buttons wrote:

Testify wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Ribon Fox wrote:Over-watch please, my Guard would love that back
Nothing better that having you move into my line of fire then being withered to nothing due to big bullets coming towards you and you not being able to do any thing about it. I would bring back some form of tactics to the game if you know that a lane of movement has been closed down and you have to think of an alternative rout to my squishy Guard

I don't see why we need overwatch. With orders we can advance on an enemy unit and fire off 140 lasgun shots from a 50 man blob at close range. TBH Guard needs to be nerfed if anything, with vets, vendettas, and Chimeras probably being the top ten units in the game for their type.

Yeah, foot guard is just too strong.

It isn't too strong, especially not compared to Mech Guard, the main reason it is good is that people expect to face Mech Guard so are overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you plan to fight an army of terminators and end up fighting a green tide, odds are you won't do well. Pretty much foot guard is good because the meta is mechanized.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wrakkar wrote:Or some clever sod could just heavy bolter spam the lot of you XD

EDIT: Or auto cannons, or lascannons... Guard don't like being spammed by anything, they are about being the spammers! XP

Not many people use heavy bolters in the mech meta, and lascannons are pretty meaningless against foot guard. Oh you killed a single guardsman with that lascannon, it hurts so much.</sarcasm>

Touche

Yes a change to ID would be good.
If they are changing to
Move
Assualt
Shooting
Some sort of Overwatch or Reaction Fire would be needed

mmm... overwatch...

In no particular order:

1) Redefinition of removed from play, removed from play as a casualty, destroyed, etc. to all mean the same thing in game terms.

2) More control of how reserves come in rather than being entirely random.

3) Toning down of ID

4) KPs based on unit cost

5) Movement being less random, and having to move your models fewer times per turn (consolidate run and charge moves into your initial movement)

6) Objectives scored per turn held then extra points for ones held at the end of the game.

juraigamer wrote:So long as 6th retains the majority of how 5th works, while changing things like vehicles and wound allocation to fix problems, I'm happy.

What I don't want is Warhammer 40k: fantasy edition.

Yes please. Im actually fairly happy with 5th, as is my group as a whole. I hope it dosent change too drastically.

Maelstrom808 wrote:In no particular order:

1) Redefinition of removed from play, removed from play as a casualty, destroyed, etc. to all mean the same thing in game terms.

2) More control of how reserves come in rather than being entirely random.

3) Toning down of ID

4) KPs based on unit cost

5) Movement being less random, and having to move your models fewer times per turn (consolidate run and charge moves into your initial movement)

6) Objectives scored per turn held then extra points for ones held at the end of the game.

I like the ones about objectives and reserves, but as one thread has shown me, toning down ID might not always be good for everything...

Yeah, removing ID would make the Doom of Malan'tai rather invincible.

Nalathani wrote:Yeah, removing ID would make the Doom of Malan'tai rather invincible.

Just a li'l bit, yeah.

It would be tough, not invincible though. If it's really a concern, errata DoM to be particularly vulnerable to it. It's silly to cripple entire catagories of units to keep a couple specific units from being OP.

Or rather putting in levels of ID and EW.

Level 1 ID = weapons that are double your Toughness

Level 1 Eternal Warrior = Immune to Level 1 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from double your toughness wounds. This is standard on all ICs and MCs.


Level 2 ID = Activated Force Weapons

Level 2 ID = Immune to Level 1 and Level 2 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from Level 2 and Level 1 instant death wounds. This would be things that have EW currently.

Grey Templar wrote:Or rather putting in levels of ID and EW.

Level 1 ID = weapons that are double your Toughness

Level 1 Eternal Warrior = Immune to Level 1 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from double your toughness wounds. This is standard on all ICs and MCs.


Level 2 ID = Activated Force Weapons

Level 2 ID = Immune to Level 1 and Level 2 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from Level 2 and Level 1 instant death wounds. This would be things that have EW currently.

Good idea. I think the "leaked" 6th rules had something similar...

They did it worked quite nicely in the play testing we did.

Good to hear
If it's not in the official 6th, I may make it a house rule

Grey Templar wrote:This is standard on all ICs and MCs.

So the DoM wouldn't change as it's neither of these.

Which is fine. As a 90 point model with a pretty nice array of offensive abilities, it really doesn't need any form of EW of ID protection. A 250 point MC the size of a small house should not get wiped from the table because a single 20 point marine got in a single lucky hit...especially when you can field an entire army of said marines.

Well Daemons MCs are immune to ID but the GK can ID them anyways, don't see why other MCs should be to much more protected against ID(but a little would be nice).

As fluffy as it might be, I personally think that it's just as rediculous for demons as well, if not more so.

Psychic powers change. I like the idea of random powers, like WHFB spells. Also, a certain number to hit with the dice roll, not, well, I have leadership 10 so, this is going to happen, only two chances for it not to (5/6, 6/6).

Feel No Pain. Doesn;t make sense how a model with 5+ save can have a 4+ FNP. I think FNP needs to be more on a 5+, less than 50% chance of a save.

I also like the idea of making MC immune to ID, i would also go on to say they should be immune to removed from play too... damn jaws lol

Formosa wrote:I also like the idea of making MC immune to ID, i would also go on to say they should be immune to removed from play too... damn jaws lol

They face ID relatively rarely, this would be unnecessary. Most MC's only have to worry about it from Force Weapons (relatively rare outside of GK's and they can put on enough wounds to kill it anyway often enough) and a few random relatively rare powers/weapons, which, aside from Jaws, aren't often seen, and Jaws is a power that needs to be removed and reworked entirely anyway.

It seems like we have had this thread a few times already...

Anyway, I want to see more game types and fewer groupies. Really, it gets so hard to complete a game with all of the groupies hanging around...

A hard nerf to jaws would be great to see in 6th(wont happen but needed), the other remove from play abilities are just rarely used because they are expensive and unreliable(at best). I never even field them anymore with my necron(unless I field a lith and have no choice) because their are much better uses for those points, my lord could take a Tesseract labyrinth but for 5 less points I can take mind shackle scarabs and the scarabs will perform significantly better than a 1 shot remove from play weapon.

martin74 wrote:Psychic powers change. I like the idea of random powers, like WHFB spells. Also, a certain number to hit with the dice roll, not, well, I have leadership 10 so, this is going to happen, only two chances for it not to (5/6, 6/6).

Feel No Pain. Doesn;t make sense how a model with 5+ save can have a 4+ FNP. I think FNP needs to be more on a 5+, less than 50% chance of a save.

Good point, I can't imagine any surgeon saying this:

Guardsman: "Will he make it, dock?"
Surgeon: "Well, his arm, spleen, liver, stomach, small intestine, bladder, spine and most of his skull were blown apart when he was hit with that high-explosive anti-tank krak missile. He lost about 80% of his blood before we got to him, shrapnel has embedded most of his body, and all I have is a bandage, some cream, and a staple gun... I'd say his chances are about 50/50."

Knowing GW...

SW, GK and BA will take a hit in power, forcing more sales of models on the whole.

Vehicles for 6th won't be anywhere near as good as they are now, so less sales for those, since it doesn't make GW as much money.

Change ID and wound allocation, and re-balance some units and armies (GK im looking at you!).

I'd like less emphasis on vehicles, mostly cuz I hate building and painting them lol.

Tone down the wound allocation nonsense.

If you are going to make it 1. Move 2. Assault 3. Shoot, then I think you should remove Assault Ramps and make everything able to charge out of a vehicle. If random charge distances are in can you see yourself in this situation..

"Ok, I am 2 inches away from the enemy squad. I could try to charge into them but there is always the possibility I could roll snake eyes and come up short, I guess I will have to try to shoot them instead."

I had this scenario happen and it cost me a tournament because I rolled 2d6 to move through difficult terrain and rolled snake eyes. Now you are telling me that its going to be 2d6 in the open field?

Omg I don't know who put this in but its stupid....so stupid

The real question is will you be able to shoot if you assault the enemy, wipe the squad, and end the assault phase unengaged?

Could be quite interesting.

Grey Templar wrote:The real question is will you be able to shoot if you assault the enemy, wipe the squad, and end the assault phase unengaged?

Could be quite interesting.

The way it works in fantasy is you charge in the movement phase. Then you have shooting. Then you fight the close combats you started in movement.

If it ends up working that way then no you won't be able to shoot.

That'd be ideal since Grey Knights have great assault shooting and great close combat ability, make them choose.

They should also change the way embarked units can recover from their exploded/wreckeded unit.
In 5th ed. they simply have to pass a pinning test, that's it.
Even if they pass the test, they should have some kind of malus for shooting or assaulting (ex, shooting with BS1, no assaulting bonus , init 1 etc...), After all they have to exit the wreckage, I am pretty sure some of them even end up with the head in the engine or in the wheels, so they need minimum time to physically stand up and join the fight again...

Pinning does pretty much screw the unit for the next turn though, unless they get assaulted in which case nothing bad happens.

I think Pinning should do something in the assault phase. Maybe make the whole unit I1 for the phase.

6th ED maybe weaken Vehicles?! Other then that 5th is a good book with a couple small problems. Yes you shot the front of my mob of Orks and ones in the back die, yes weird but without it the game would be broken sooo im all for balance that slightly makes the world weirder.

I would make them I1 for the following assault phase because it would be extremely disorienting to be in a vehicle that just exploded. I say keep that you are in cover for the effects of shooting but I don't really see how being in the wreckage would protect you if the people are standing in the wreckage with you and your ears are ringing and your vision is blurry as hell

I'd like to see more purpose for the units.

With so many vehicles maybe a few senarios could be short table edge deployments.

Cover should have a whole chapter of the rule book dedicated to it. Not simply 4+ everywhere.

And the games should be faster. In other words, the only thing random should be Orks.

You'd think after 20k years of practice drop pods would land exactly where they were needed, plasmagunners wouldn't hold the trigger for so long ect.

DeffDred wrote:I'd like to see more purpose for the units.

With so many vehicles maybe a few senarios could be short table edge deployments.

Cover should have a whole chapter of the rule book dedicated to it. Not simply 4+ everywhere.

And the games should be faster. In other words, the only thing random should be Orks.

You'd think after 20k years of practice drop pods would land exactly where they were needed, plasmagunners wouldn't hold the trigger for so long ect.

Sooo true. Only one thing I would like to point out: There are different saves for various types of terrain, for example, razor wire only gives a 6+ , while fortifications go all the way to 3+.
You could even have in a bunker "firing slits", in the style of castles for firing arrows: a small line for you to fire out of, that makes it nearly impossible to hit you. That could get a 2+ probably.

Buttons wrote:
It isn't too strong, especially not compared to Mech Guard, the main reason it is good is that people expect to face Mech Guard so are overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you plan to fight an army of terminators and end up fighting a green tide, odds are you won't do well. Pretty much foot guard is good because the meta is mechanized.

QFT. I won a game the other day as foot guard because my opponent was expecting mech spam and showed up to counter it. It was basically 1,000 points of foot guard vs about 500 points of assault marines, the other 500 points being laspreds and such.
If he knew he was fighting foot guard I'd have been boned

Testify wrote:

Buttons wrote:
It isn't too strong, especially not compared to Mech Guard, the main reason it is good is that people expect to face Mech Guard so are overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you plan to fight an army of terminators and end up fighting a green tide, odds are you won't do well. Pretty much foot guard is good because the meta is mechanized.

QFT. I won a game the other day as foot guard because my opponent was expecting mech spam and showed up to counter it. It was basically 1,000 points of foot guard vs about 500 points of assault marines, the other 500 points being laspreds and such.
If he knew he was fighting foot guard I'd have been boned

The key is to prepare for both...

...Obliterators...
...Autocannons...

*Troll face*

Can't figure out if you're being tongue-in-cheek or not, but autocannons aren't much use against mechs...or anything, really.

Testify wrote:Can't figure out if you're being tongue-in-cheek or not, but autocannons aren't much use against mechs...or anything, really.

They can be useful on light armour, but I do admit they aren't the best.

When spammed, Autocannons are murder against Chimeras and lower armor(while also being decent against infantry)

Grey Templar wrote:When spammed, Autocannons are murder against Chimeras and lower armor(while also being decent against infantry)

This.

Victory Points
Nerf of Cover
Nerf of FNP
No Wound allocation

rockerbikie wrote:Victory Points
Nerf of Cover
Nerf of FNP
No Wound allocation

And while we're at it, HARDCORE mode [jking]

I don't understand why FnP needs a nerf. Is it that OP?

For Dark Eldar its practically the only thing they have as far as saves go.

For BAs it's kinda their thing. Mathematically its a conditional 2+ save for their Assault Marines and it comes from ICs that can get sniped out.


Why does it need nerfing?


Cover I agree with, or at least we need a comprehensive definition of cover in the rule book.

Grey Templar wrote:Or rather putting in levels of ID and EW.

Level 1 ID = weapons that are double your Toughness

Level 1 Eternal Warrior = Immune to Level 1 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from double your toughness wounds. This is standard on all ICs and MCs.


Level 2 ID = Activated Force Weapons

Level 2 ID = Immune to Level 1 and Level 2 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from Level 2 and Level 1 instant death wounds. This would be things that have EW currently.

Levels will make life for the gamers more complicated. I thought GW would put an emphasis on new players?

Grey Templar wrote:I don't understand why FnP needs a nerf. Is it that OP?

For Dark Eldar its practically the only thing they have as far as saves go.

For BAs it's kinda their thing. Mathematically its a conditional 2+ save for their Assault Marines and it comes from ICs that can get sniped out.


Why does it need nerfing?

It doesn't, BA do. 100 points for army wide FNP and FC is regarded as pretty ott by many. Not everyone can charector snipe you know, or have the capacity to single out an MEQ IC in CC.

Grey Templar wrote:When spammed, Autocannons are murder against Chimeras and lower armor(while also being decent against infantry)

Only way to cheaply do that is with Hydras. Otherwise I really can't see them being effective at all. You've got to hit, 6s to penetrate, probably a 4+ cover, and 5s and 6s to glance. As a mech guard player, I've never had them worry me...

Depends on other changes. If they make things simpler elsewhere it will be fine to add some additional levels of detail.

I think the issue is that Matt Ward and his contemporaries have been handing FnP out like it was candy, and now that it's absolutely everywhere, it has to be nerfed.

Also, judging from the rumours so far, it looks like the game is moving more towards Warhammer 40k: Fantasy in Space. Which just totally turns me off from the game as it is.

Random charge distance is the major offender for me so far. So what I want most of all is for that to not be true.

Grey Templar wrote:I don't understand why FnP needs a nerf. Is it that OP?

For Dark Eldar its practically the only thing they have as far as saves go.

For BAs it's kinda their thing. Mathematically its a conditional 2+ save for their Assault Marines and it comes from ICs that can get sniped out.


Why does it need nerfing?


Cover I agree with, or at least we need a comprehensive definition of cover in the rule book.

They are handing out too many FNP, Dark Eldar I can accept but not Blood Angels and other books.


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wuestenfux wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Or rather putting in levels of ID and EW.

Level 1 ID = weapons that are double your Toughness

Level 1 Eternal Warrior = Immune to Level 1 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from double your toughness wounds. This is standard on all ICs and MCs.


Level 2 ID = Activated Force Weapons

Level 2 ID = Immune to Level 1 and Level 2 ID, instead suffer 2 wounds from Level 2 and Level 1 instant death wounds. This would be things that have EW currently.

Levels will make life for the gamers more complicated. I thought GW would put an emphasis on new players?

You should have a look at Fantasy. 40K is simple compared to Fantasy.

It's not hard to be simpler than a convoluted mess.

Fafnir wrote:It's not hard to be simpler than a convoluted mess.

well said

kronk wrote:It seems like we have had this thread a few times already...

Anyway, I want to see more game types and fewer groupies. Really, it gets so hard to complete a game with all of the groupies hanging around...

do you mean people watching, or are you making a joke about ladies loving the 40k?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wrakkar wrote:

martin74 wrote:Psychic powers change. I like the idea of random powers, like WHFB spells. Also, a certain number to hit with the dice roll, not, well, I have leadership 10 so, this is going to happen, only two chances for it not to (5/6, 6/6).

Feel No Pain. Doesn;t make sense how a model with 5+ save can have a 4+ FNP. I think FNP needs to be more on a 5+, less than 50% chance of a save.

Good point, I can't imagine any surgeon saying this:

Guardsman: "Will he make it, dock?"
Surgeon: "Well, his arm, spleen, liver, stomach, small intestine, bladder, spine and most of his skull were blown apart when he was hit with that high-explosive anti-tank krak missile. He lost about 80% of his blood before we got to him, shrapnel has embedded most of his body, and all I have is a bandage, some cream, and a staple gun... I'd say his chances are about 50/50."

feel no pain doesn't give you saves from ID only normal wounds. so a T3 getting hit with a krak doesn't get a FNP roll.

Fafnir wrote:It's not hard to be simpler than a convoluted mess.

I disagree with your statement. Fantasy is not a mess.

phoenixrisin wrote:

kronk wrote:It seems like we have had this thread a few times already...

Anyway, I want to see more game types and fewer groupies. Really, it gets so hard to complete a game with all of the groupies hanging around...

do you mean people watching, or are you making a joke about ladies loving the 40k?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wrakkar wrote:

martin74 wrote:Psychic powers change. I like the idea of random powers, like WHFB spells. Also, a certain number to hit with the dice roll, not, well, I have leadership 10 so, this is going to happen, only two chances for it not to (5/6, 6/6).

Feel No Pain. Doesn;t make sense how a model with 5+ save can have a 4+ FNP. I think FNP needs to be more on a 5+, less than 50% chance of a save.

Good point, I can't imagine any surgeon saying this:

Guardsman: "Will he make it, dock?"
Surgeon: "Well, his arm, spleen, liver, stomach, small intestine, bladder, spine and most of his skull were blown apart when he was hit with that high-explosive anti-tank krak missile. He lost about 80% of his blood before we got to him, shrapnel has embedded most of his body, and all I have is a bandage, some cream, and a staple gun... I'd say his chances are about 50/50."

feel no pain doesn't give you saves from ID only normal wounds. so a T3 getting hit with a krak doesn't get a FNP roll.

Sorry, I should have wrote "Soldier" instead of "guardsman", that would make it more applicable. But my point still stands

Less Invulnerable saves - and less army-wide Power Weapons

No changes to cover save mechanics

IMHO both Missile Launchers and Lascannons should be better against AV, but I'm not sure if that might require army-specific Codex tweaks to make it happen.

PS, IMO if you're going to have scaled Eternal Warrior and Instant Death, it should be the Opposite - because of the fact that an army has army-wide Force Weapons

e.g.

Level 1 ID = Activated Force Weapons

Level 1 Eternal Warrior = Immune to Activated Force Weapons

Level 2 ID = Weapons that are double your Toughness

Level 2 EW = immune to Level 2 ID

Level 3 EW = Immune to Level 1 and 2 ID

Or better yet, give Librarians a different Force weapon from GKs, so that there is some actual opportunity cost attached to it and you can make it fulfill it's intended function (being a counter to ICs and multi-wound models).

IMO this game needs to have more in the way of hard counters. This is why Invulnerable saves are a stupid mechanic for most models. Also, there should be no Assault penalty for assaulting into cover.

Wrakkar wrote:

Sorry, I should have wrote "Soldier" instead of "guardsman", that would make it more applicable. But my point still stands

No, it doesn't, because no models in this game short of ICs have T5 and FNP. So what you're talking about is for instance Mad Dok Grotsnik or Chaplain Cassius, which doesn't work. A good example would be the story in the Ork Codex about when Ghazghkull Thraka got his skull blown apart and brain fragments were leaking everywhere and Mad Dok Grotsnik fixed him up with an Adamantium Skull before he became the Prophet of the WAAAGH. He was fine because he is T5 like a boss (or in this case, a Warboss, which also get FNP saves).

The game designers are fortunately not stupid enough to give a unit with T5 a FNP save.

and it comes from ICs that can get sniped out.

When did everyone get vindicare assassins? I'd love an orky one!

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

and it comes from ICs that can get sniped out.

When did everyone get vindicare assassins? I'd love an orky one!

An orky one with BS 2. Great value!

wuestenfux wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

and it comes from ICs that can get sniped out.

When did everyone get vindicare assassins? I'd love an orky one!

An orky one with BS 2. Great value!

Just get six

Wrakkar wrote:

martin74 wrote:Psychic powers change. I like the idea of random powers, like WHFB spells. Also, a certain number to hit with the dice roll, not, well, I have leadership 10 so, this is going to happen, only two chances for it not to (5/6, 6/6).

Feel No Pain. Doesn;t make sense how a model with 5+ save can have a 4+ FNP. I think FNP needs to be more on a 5+, less than 50% chance of a save.

Good point, I can't imagine any surgeon saying this:

Guardsman: "Will he make it, dock?"
Surgeon: "Well, his arm, spleen, liver, stomach, small intestine, bladder, spine and most of his skull were blown apart when he was hit with that high-explosive anti-tank krak missile. He lost about 80% of his blood before we got to him, shrapnel has embedded most of his body, and all I have is a bandage, some cream, and a staple gun... I'd say his chances are about 50/50."

Feel no pain doesn't work for Guardsmen once a weapon is past strength 5 anyway. So your example of a krak missile is invalid. Heavy bolter would have been a better example or hell a pulse rifle. Your 50/50 chances end one step above that.

GK Nerf,
Twin-linked weapons re-write (the current rules work but dont make much sense)
Wound allocation fix
Instant Kill fix

I'd like more control over reserves, players with different missions, force organisation flexibility + being able to shoot heavy weapons out of vehicles that have moved



Would be funny to see a rule that meant passangers in an opened top vehicle have to roll to see if they held on whilst their vehicle went flat out (aka see passangers get thrown from their vehicles and die)

because no models in this game short of ICs have T5 and FNP.

Deathguard? Plague Bearers? Or did I miss something more relevant in a previous post?

Actually Plague Marines are a 4(5) on toughness. Its like the toughness on Bikers so it can be gotten around. Plaguebearers on the other hand are a true T5 and get FNP and laugh at Krak Missiles...all for 15 points a model. Guess it was intended to offset the Daemon Princes in the Daemon Codex having to pay 60 points for wings...

That, and the fact that that's about all that they have.

Fafnir wrote:That, and the fact that that's about all that they have.

They aren't that bad if they get tied up by a MC..But yeah they really don't have much compared to the other two besides durability, unless you are using an epidemus list against a footslogger army.

Lances that can reliably damage vehicles.

That'd be nice.

I would like a complete re-write focusing on the gameplay of 40k.
Rather than the continued mutilation of WHFB game mechanics and patching them up to try to make a rule set that sort of fits sometimes ....

As reguards to Instant Death and Eternal Warrior.

Whats wrong with weapon damage(Strenght alternative ) vs Damage threshold.(Toughness alternative.)

Compare weapon damage to target Damage Threshold,

Eg Melta Gun Damage 2xD6

Tyranid Hive tyrant damage threshold 3.

If the melta gun rolls over 3 the HT looses 1 wound.
If the melta gun rolls over 6 the HT looses 2 wounds.
if the melta gun rols over 9 the HT looses 3 wounds.

I haver a simple alternative to AP that covers all units , without resorting to additional rules too!

Hmmm... I'd definitely like to see the removal of forcing 25 armor saves on any of my TMC because someone charged my termagants, killed them all, and had 1 model in b2b with my MC. Annoying to lose a model when no wounds were actually dealt to it.

Also, a rule some of my friends and I have come up with, is that a model can only sweep as many models as it has attacks on the charge i.e. a SM captain killing 1 fire warrior in CC because he whiffed all but 1 swing, then sweeping the remaining 11 because fire warriors cannot hit things to save their lives (literally) is a bit ridiculous. Instead, said captain (for argument purposes is equipped with PW/BP) can only sweep 5 models, which makes complete sense.

ID does need to change to some degree, but some of it also makes sense. Can I see Kharn the betrayer surviving a force weapon due to his chaos allegiance? absolutely. Do I see him surviving a rail gun passing through his torso? no. It's a freaking rail gun.

Make having your transport blown up/crushed/evaporated in a violent way have more of an impact than "I took an ap- bolter round to the spleen" Open top vehicles should have some waylay in this regard because the occupants will be ejected from the vehicle, rather than have it collapse on them.

More use of true buildings, and advantages/disadvantages for being in them. If you are on the third story of a building when a battlecannon blasts out the two floors below you.. well.. gravity has a surprise for you.

As stated a dozen times more game types. Battle missions goes some way to alleviate this, but some are completely OTT while others are completely idiotic.

Have some way to reduce the ubiquity of an invulnerable save, or have different kinds. Should your magic shield protect you from the death-fisting from a chaos champ? sure. Will it stop the plasma cannon fusillade from evaporating you from existence?? .. ... probably not....

More night/day/weather effects. Snow is murder on vehicles not equipped for it, in the same way that slogging through a swamp will not benefit a platoon of (non-catachan) guardsmen. Release more scenarios similar to Zone Mortalis.

Make FNP more scaled towards the unit, possibly to errata the means/methods.

Change allocation/cover. When the ML marine sitting out in the open gets hit by a lascannon, which conveniently reflects off his pauldron, hitting bolter marine 7.. hmm... well.. case & point.

I want the orks to win.

StarHunter25 wrote:Hmmm... I'd definitely like to see the removal of forcing 25 armor saves on any of my TMC because someone charged my termagants, killed them all, and had 1 model in b2b with my MC. Annoying to lose a model when no wounds were actually dealt to it.

Also, a rule some of my friends and I have come up with, is that a model can only sweep as many models as it has attacks on the charge i.e. a SM captain killing 1 fire warrior in CC because he whiffed all but 1 swing, then sweeping the remaining 11 because fire warriors cannot hit things to save their lives (literally) is a bit ridiculous. Instead, said captain (for argument purposes is equipped with PW/BP) can only sweep 5 models, which makes complete sense.

ID does need to change to some degree, but some of it also makes sense. Can I see Kharn the betrayer surviving a force weapon due to his chaos allegiance? absolutely. Do I see him surviving a rail gun passing through his torso? no. It's a freaking rail gun.

Spoiler:

for those of you who haven't read savage scars, all you need to read is the part where the rail gun misses the rhino by about 4 feet, and still melts the rhino in half/kills most of the marines inside

Make having your transport blown up/crushed/evaporated in a violent way have more of an impact than "I took an ap- bolter round to the spleen" Open top vehicles should have some waylay in this regard because the occupants will be ejected from the vehicle, rather than have it collapse on them.

More use of true buildings, and advantages/disadvantages for being in them. If you are on the third story of a building when a battlecannon blasts out the two floors below you.. well.. gravity has a surprise for you.

As stated a dozen times more game types. Battle missions goes some way to alleviate this, but some are completely OTT while others are completely idiotic.

Have some way to reduce the ubiquity of an invulnerable save, or have different kinds. Should your magic shield protect you from the death-fisting from a chaos champ? sure. Will it stop the plasma cannon fusillade from evaporating you from existence?? .. ... probably not....

More night/day/weather effects. Snow is murder on vehicles not equipped for it, in the same way that slogging through a swamp will not benefit a platoon of (non-catachan) guardsmen. Release more scenarios similar to Zone Mortalis.

Make FNP more scaled towards the unit, possibly to errata the means/methods.

Change allocation/cover. When the ML marine sitting out in the open gets hit by a lascannon, which conveniently reflects off his pauldron, hitting bolter marine 7.. hmm... well.. case & point.

As to your point about the lascannon and the ML marine, the idea is that he DOES get killed, but bolter marine 7 picks up the ML. Thus being realistic.


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Capt. Camping wrote:I want the orks to win.

Lol nope

I would really want monstrous creatures to be as good as vehicles, but knowing GW they'd likely just go and flip flop the vehicles vs monstrous creatures thing and make monstrous creatures vastly better than ground vehicles rather than attempt to balance the two.

LOL poor Orks

I dont care about the boardgame, but i want the emperor reborn!

The nerfing of FnP gives me pause because I was going to start Death Guard in 6th. One of the armies that totally relies on FnP.

Cerebrium wrote:The nerfing of FnP gives me pause because I was going to start Death Guard in 6th. One of the armies that totally relies on FnP.

Seeing as chaos are the first codex of sixth, go for it. You just can't do it with the current edition.

Its also likely that there may be levels of FnP like in Fantesy(except its called Regen)


Standard FnP may be 5+

There may also be FnP at other values too(as specified in the specific codex)

Assassins have a 6+ FnP for example.

I could see Plague Marines keeping a 4+ FnP.

I would like to see Imperial Guardsman mounted on Motobikes. That would be mean as, an entire regiment dedicated to fast attacks.

Cerebrium wrote:The nerfing of FnP gives me pause because I was going to start Death Guard in 6th. One of the armies that totally relies on FnP.

And it's not as if you can't negate FnP either, is it?
Power weapons, Id, Dangerous terrain, special rules etc...

I'm not sure if it would make the USR for it OP, but I think it would make sense.

Units with Move Through Cover not to have their initiative reduced when assaulting, this would greatly help the Tyranids with their lack of Assault Grenades.

I think it's silly at the moment that a unit that can jump from tree to tree but can't do the same under fire. Maybe it shouldn't apply to Monstrous Creatures though as they just smash stuff out of the way and are a pretty large target.

Also maybe units with wings or jump packs etc to have Hit and Run as standard. From the wording in the current BRB, if I recall correctly, maybe I don't, it is implied that they should be able to do this anyway.

Wrakkar wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:The nerfing of FnP gives me pause because I was going to start Death Guard in 6th. One of the armies that totally relies on FnP.

And it's not as if you can't negate FnP either, is it?
Power weapons, Id, Dangerous terrain, special rules etc...

Yeah, but that's to be expected. You'd still be getting an armour save and FnP against 99% of regular attacks. We still will now, but it's a lot less reliable.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Seeing as chaos are the first codex of sixth, go for it. You just can't do it with the current edition.

Yeah, I was going to wait for the new book, since it's apparently going to be the first to be updated. I'll be getting my Iron Warriors and Word Bearers up and running first.

I would like a weaker version of rending, I keep getting mowed down by assault cannons, or a easier vehicle assaulting, too much morale ):