This post is to discuss the theory of adding allies to the game. The current description that is that allies would be the following
You must take a minimum of units of 2 troops and 1 HQ before any other slots are unlocked. Once you have taken the mandatory choices, you can take one FA, HS, and Elite slot.
These are the following effects I see on the game

All armies becomes more powerful
Combos like GK/IG can grant GK armies access to vendettas. In fact I would not be surprised if you see a vendetta in every army list that can take them! This means across the board, all armies will become more powerful from their current place in the meta. If all armies gain equally in power, then there is no relative shift in balance. If current weaker armies get proportionally greater power, then the game will be more balanced.
Its also possible that specific combos will be to powerful and banned -- much like Mind Twist in MTG.


Combats Codex Creep
What it also means is that older, weaker armies can become more powerful by allying with the newer codex's. Lets say a new Eldar codex comes out and it has some units that are insanely effective. A dark eldar or IG player can take advantage of that new model and play with it by allying with the Eldar and playing with the new model.


GW sells more models
If every army has access to allies (save 'Nids), then players who play specific armies will then think of what allies would work for their army. It expands the model range they would buy from to include these new allies.


More diversified builds
Much like multi-classing in 3.5, allies mean a player can generate a new army type to use. Instead of the 14 army lists that are in the game today, there are over a hundred new combinations that might show up at games. You might have a demon/traitor guard in one game, and a C:SM/Tau player in the next.
The other thing is allies allow you to diversify what kind of build you want to play. Imagine a Tau army with some TH/SS termies in a LR to help counter-assault. It means that you can't just see a Tau player and assume you can roll them over in assault.


Expanding to a new army becomes easier
Lets say you play IG, and you want to start an Ork army and they are allowed to be allies. You can buy a warboss, a battlewagon, and some boys and add it to your IG army. You can play with it a few games, and see how you like the feel of it. This lets you test out certain units, and lets you start playing with your new painted models faster.


Cooler themes
Armies can now have more of a theme to them. Having a demon/CSM army is more feasable. Making a genestealer kult army can now be done by using 'counts as' with IG and DE rules -- giving them more of a feel of what the armies would actually be like.

What else would allies do the game?

I'm looking forwards to fun, themed games.

I don't play in Tournaments, so I really don't care what happens there.

Screw over Tyranids, as they are unlikely to benefit from all of this?
Screw over factions with less allies than the imperials?

Further skew the game towards an imperial circlejerk?

Make list building and tournament play even more expensive?

Completely detonate the metagame?

Da Boss wrote:Screw over Tyranids, as they are unlikely to benefit from all of this?
Screw over factions with less allies than the imperials?

Further skew the game towards an imperial circlejerk?

Make list building and tournament play even more expensive?

Completely detonate the metagame?

I'm betting nids can take two FoC's to make up for it. Six elite slots anyone?

Anyways, it means we can finally take fluffy lists!

Gue'vra with Tau leaders

Chaos Daemons with Chaos Forces, whether cultists (IG) or CSM!

The only problem is, the system, no matter how well done, WILL be abused to death. I play at a highly competitve store, and I can tell you right now, if it becomes true, I will not play people using it there. Because I know they can come up with combos that would make my brain hurt, to the point where I would never be able to win with a single codex army (aka no allies) I'm already shuddering at the thought of a GK army with some longfangs and a vendetta tagging along for the ride, and that's just a minor example. The guys at my store could come up with way better than that

That said, for fun games, I love the idea. I can't wait to make an IG/ ork hybrid army. Now I can bring an ork army with Leman Russes, Demolishers, or to be REALLY orky, some punishers! Not to mention mixing ork shoota boys and lootas in with IG platoons and heavy weapon teams for support.

So yeah. Done right, it could be amazing. But sadly, what's far more likely to happen if it makes it in, it'll be abused like crazy, there will be one uber list that everyone brings as an instant win, and allies will get banned in everything but the most casual of games.

Allies would ruin the game.

Why take a battlewagon when you can have a Landraider?

Why take a Daemon Prince when you can take Long Fangs?

TH/SS terminators standing next to Fateweaver?

I can easily see it being explaoited to the point of extreme nerd rage.

Even in a fun friendly game... it would become troublesome.

So I guess it's too late to tell you it's just for team games.

DeffDred wrote:Allies would ruin the game.

Why take a battlewagon when you can have a Landraider?

Why take a Daemon Prince when you can take Long Fangs?

TH/SS terminators standing next to Fateweaver?

I can easily see it being explaoited to the point of extreme nerd rage.

Even in a fun friendly game... it would become troublesome.

There's an ally matrix stating what cannot be together.

Fateweaver will have to contend standing next to Thousand Son Marines.

An ally FoC could make it balanced, but there would have to be strict controls on what could ally and what could not.

Maybe no more then 20% of your point total in allies, max of 3 units, restrictions on ICs from different codices joining allied squads.

If you want to take Allies in a "fun" game, you can.

Though the language here is misleading, implying that a competitive, hard fought and finely balanced game is not "fun". That's the MOST fun in wargaming, win or lose.

As for fluffy lists, the "fluffy" will be vastly outweighed by the ridiculous. If you wanted to have fun games with a fluffy list, no one was stopping you. What this will do is poison or confuse pick up games no end.

juraigamer wrote:So I guess it's too late to tell you it's just for team games.

No, it's not. Check out the rumor thread. There's a screenshot of a 2500 pt game , 2 players, with Imperial Guard/Grey Knights and CSM/Daemons.

Allies would do to this edition, what they did to last edition.

Ruin the game.

The moment you can pick and choose units from all codexs is the moment any semblance of codex balance gets thrown out the window.

I can think of some combos that at least 2 of my armies will not want to face. Adding a GK librarian to Blood Angels so that unit can strike at S6 (and rollign 2d6 for armor pen) with Might of Titan and I 10 with Quicksilver on all of their attacks is pretty nasty. Couple that with a Blood Angels Librarian leading said unit and using Unleash Rage that coudl lead to a terminal case of dead for the other unit. Granted I used 3 psychic powers there but such occurences are not unheard of. I know some Eldar players using 3 or 4+ psychic powers a turn.

DeffDred wrote:Allies would ruin the game.

Why take a battlewagon when you can have a Landraider?

Why take a Daemon Prince when you can take Long Fangs?

TH/SS terminators standing next to Fateweaver?

I can easily see it being explaoited to the point of extreme nerd rage.

Even in a fun friendly game... it would become troublesome.

1) A battlewagon is open-topped, and is much cheaper than a LR? A better question is "why bring a LR for your TH/SS termies when you can bring a battlewagon"

2) Are those other combos legal? I did not think C:SM and Demons would be allies, nor CSM and SW.

Yes, it can be exploited, I agree. Much like multi-classing in 3.5 D&D was exploited by powergamers.


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Grey Templar wrote:An ally FoC could make it balanced, but there would have to be strict controls on what could ally and what could not.

Maybe no more then 20% of your point total in allies, max of 3 units, restrictions on ICs from different codices joining allied squads.

I would think that having your FoC limits still in place would help.

IE - Sure you can bring that hydra tank battery to your GK army, but it chews up one of your HS slots, so you can only bring 2 psydreads.
Simply the point of allying would force you to take 2 HQs, and limit you to 1 from each codex.

Check out the thread. It looks like you can add that allied FoC to your original FoC, so 4 heavy slots if you like.

This might be faulty info, but from what I read, you are restricted to taking 1 HQ 1 Troop and 1 Other. I have yet to see the the WD myself, but this would alleviate some of the problems since you can't spam outside codex units....

Gives me proper chaos with CSM, Daemons and IG.

And for this I am eternally grateful.

I'm not a competitive gamer, but I think this has some neat fluff values.

Proper Chaos Armies.

Having Guard hold the line until the Angels of Death (SM) come.

A proper Blood Axe klan (Imperial allies).

Allies will break this game. It might be able to be built a bit fluffier, but the game will be unplayable. I will never play anyone using allies.

To all the ones saying that Allies will break the game:
In my opinion, the game broke when GW added more armies than they could competently handle. The game already has a few broken armies that can easily destroy another, assuming competent generals. The recent 5th edition codexes have, mostly, curb stomped the 4th & 3rd editions. A special mention goes to Tyranids, a 5th edition dex that people often cite. Note I myself have never played or played against 'Nids.

Personally, I want to see just how broken the game gets before
A) Enough people leave the hobby.
B) GW changes their game plan.

I'm still gonna play, I've got a mixed 2k Tau/Elysian Gue'Vesa army.

So sit back, and enjoy the fireworks folks!

Marzillius wrote:Allies will break this game. It might be able to be built a bit fluffier, but the game will be unplayable. I will never play anyone using allies.

How exactly would it do this?

Navy air cav for a DKoK list!

Rules rumours for allies as they stand-

-Only one of each FOC slot for an Ally

-1x HQ and 1X Troop are mandatory

-Only certain factions can ally with others

I'm sure there will be many more restrictions in place to prevent tomfoolery.

Don't see the issue, if you choose not to play an ally yourself than you are consciously putting yourself at a disadvantage by not making use of an available option, same as if you decided not to use a Pyschic Hood against an army utilising Psykers. Yes it is very likely an IG army with GK Termis, Librarian and Dreads will beat an IG army without those things- BUT the option is there for you to counter with your own GKs or any other allied faction!

Allies only increases the tactical options available and the diversity in armies, which equals more fun. People will always find ways to 'break' the game through the rules; the rules are not designed for ultra-competetive play. If you ware concerned about the people you play with exploiting these new rules to create stupidly broken armies, then either build your own power-army or find a non-gakky group of people to play with.

I'd finally be able to field my IG alongside my BT at GW.

DeffDred wrote:Allies would ruin the game.

Why take a battlewagon when you can have a Landraider?

Because you'll also have to take a troop and HQ of Space Marines in order to get LR, meaning you'll be paying at least 170 points on top of the LR. You can do that if you want Also highly unlikley orks will ally will Imperials.

DeffDred wrote:
Why take a Daemon Prince when you can take Long Fangs?

Because Chaos can't ally with Space Wolves?

DeffDred wrote:
TH/SS terminators standing next to Fateweaver?

Space Marines allying with Chaos Demons...are you drunk or something?

I think a lot of people are grossly over-reacting to the ally rules. We don't understand them fully yet and there's no reason to suppose that they will leave the game open to exploit.

Dog. wrote:Rules rumours for allies as they stand-

-Only one of each FOC slot for an Ally

-1x HQ and 1X Troop are mandatory

-Only certain factions can ally with others

I'm sure there will be many more restrictions in place to prevent tomfoolery.

Don't see the issue, if you choose not to play an ally yourself than you are consciously putting yourself at a disadvantage by not making use of an available option, same as if you decided not to use a Pyschic Hood against an army utilising Psykers. Yes it is very likely an IG army with GK Termis, Librarian and Dreads will beat an IG army without those things- BUT the option is there for you to counter with your own GKs or any other allied faction!

Allies only increases the tactical options available and the diversity in armies, which equals more fun. People will always find ways to 'break' the game through the rules; the rules are not designed for ultra-competetive play. If you ware concerned about the people you play with exploiting these new rules to create stupidly broken armies, then either build your own power-army or find a non-gakky group of people to play with.

There may be disadvantages we don't know yet to the ally rules, not to mention Tyranids have no allies.

If I may guess, maybe you'd be able to take a second FoC of the army you run. But I dunno.

Dog. wrote:
Yes it is very likely an IG army with GK Termis, Librarian and Dreads will beat an IG army without those things-

Uhh not really. One army will have a fully utilised FOC with mechanised infantry creating an AV 12 wall and a threat range of melta death. The other will have a few tanks and some footslogging heavy infantry. The all guard army would have the upper hand easily.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:There may be disadvantages we don't know yet to the ally rules, not to mention Tyranids have no allies.

If I may guess, maybe you'd be able to take a second FoC of the army you run. But I dunno.

You can always ally your own faction. So even if you don't want to spend money on (the start of) a new army, effectively everybody will now be able to take 3 HQ choices, and presumably 4 HS/FA/Elite.

Allies were handled well in 2nd edition.

Each codex had a list of allied armies they could take choices from, up to 50% of the main army total. But back then Allies were also listed as part of the 'support' section of the codex, which essentially meant that you could take Allies, but that cut down on what you could take for tanks, etc. Kind of a precursor to Heavy Support.

My buddy and I always have the following house rule allowing Allies:

-Must be from the "allowed" list for that codex/army.
-Take up the same Force Org slots as from their original codex
-If there is a limit on how many of a certain squad choice can be fielded in the original book(0-1, 0-3, '1' etc), it stands for the numbers for allies, too.
-The "Main Force" must include equal or more choices from each section of the Force Org chart as their Allies. So if I pick a squad of Elites from the Imperial Guard to go with my Ultramarines, I must have one or two choices already filled from the Space marine codex.


It can still be cheesed, but truly "for fun" games completely eliminate that facet completely.

i think its great, it allows me to take a Dread libby in my DA (as they should anyway) or even a storm raven/talon in my Ravenwing, its not all about powergaming, some stuff from other codex's just fit well with others (theme wise)

good ones are

Imp guard/SM
Imp guard/CSM
CSM/Deamons
DA/SW
Orks/CSM
Tau/Ultras
Tau/Imp guard

Fluff wise there are loads i havent mentioned, if someone wants to make a OP tourny army then leave em be, i have no interest in playing them, but if there having fun each to there own

I see these possible combos

Orks/IG...........Blood Axes helping imperium -- or traitor guard and orks
Tau/S:SM.......Fits the fluff of ultramarines helping them
IG/MEQs.........Marines should be able to draft IG to help them
SoB/IG............Sisters might not ally with marines, but can help with IG
SoB/GK..........You can play with sisters and inquisitors again.
Eldar/DE...........Sometimes the dark eldar help their brothers for their own ends
Eldar/Imperium...They can help humanity for their own ends
Demons/CSM....Finally...

It really opens some fun options for the armies.

Wraith Wing meets DOA, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am okay with allies if for the only reason being that I'd like to play my Sisters of Battle alongside Imperial Guard again. What it does to the game in general I really don't care about. There are probably some rules that interfere with most super combos (although they will exist I'm sure) so I'm not worried about it. Also I am willing to bet most tournaments, at least big name ones, will tell you to piss off if you want to bring allies.

Testify wrote:Also highly unlikley orks will ally will Imperials.

The Blood Axe Klan often will function as mercenaries for Imperial forces in exchange for tech (mostly tanks).

However, once the deed is done, they like to turn the tanks on their previous owners, but that's another story.

Maybe they are not 'official' rules, perhaps they are optional and may not be the norm?

I wouldnt Mind maybe getting some eldar models.Mix it up, This will finally allow me to buy models W/O worrying about staring an army.
I hope i can take war walkers, I love the look of those things.

I really wouldn't mind if it were maybe double the point values for allies. Honestly, though, I just want to bring a few real daemon with my CSM instead of the deep striking cannon fodder I get right now.

And that's allies within reason. Of course GK won't be just dealing with some CSM hanging out around them.

If i was to guess, No elites or Heavy support. Keep the heavy hitters out.
Although i might be taking the fast rhinos for my White scars force

I think it fixes the game. I feel like the game is broken now and this Brings it back to the golden age of second edition. Saying 'if you don't agree you are either drunk or stupid yourself' is in violation of rule #1 - MT11 My vanilla marines can actually have useful assault marines again... Say what!!!!!!

Necrons hate everyone, who in the world could they pair with? Though I wouldn't say no to something with higher int then 2.

Serge-David wrote:Necrons hate everyone, who in the world could they pair with? Though I wouldn't say no to something with higher int then 2.

*cough cough* Blood Angels *cough cough*

Serge-David wrote:Necrons hate everyone, who in the world could they pair with? Though I wouldn't say no to something with higher int then 2.

IIRC, in the codex, isn't there a case of a Necron Lord/Overlord trading weapons to an Ork Big Mek to stop his WAAAAGH! from wiping them out?

Dr. What wrote:

Serge-David wrote:Necrons hate everyone, who in the world could they pair with? Though I wouldn't say no to something with higher int then 2.

IIRC, in the codex, isn't there a case of a Necron Lord/Overlord trading weapons to an Ork Big Mek to stop his WAAAAGH! from wiping them out?

Yep, and the the WAAAGH! disappears from existence when they get too curious for their own good and breach a Doomsday cannon's energy containment field and it takes the whole planet with it. I don't know, but I think that may actually qualify as a defeat for those Orks.

But a short peace is still peace (the time ending when the whole planet is destroyed).

Dr. What wrote:But a short peace is still peace (the time ending when the whole planet is destroyed).

True, I wasn't countering that point. Just adding a bit more on how curiosity killed the cat, well, more like an entire kennel of cats...

Isn't their a delusional Necron lord that has opened trade with the imperium? In the Codex fluff, don't remember if he has a model/unit or not.

Lobukia wrote:Isn't their a delusional Necron lord that has opened trade with the imperium? In the Codex fluff, don't remember if he has a model/unit or not.

I don't have the codex on hand right now so I'm going to give a hesitant no... There is a delusional lord (Nemesor Zandrekh) but I don't remember jack about crons trading with the "lesser" species, I don't see why Crons would trade with them either. There is mention however of Crons putting worlds into servitude, that I'm pretty sure of.

hotsauceman1 wrote:If i was to guess, No elites or Heavy support. Keep the heavy hitters out.
Although i might be taking the fast rhinos for my White scars force

It is confirmed you can take any unit from an allied codex. So Elites and Heavy Support are in.

Although I believe special rules apply only to the host army, so no DoA for BA allies, only for the BA themselves etc.

The character and individuality of armies would just be wiped out.
You have a weakness in ranged attack? Take a unit from another codex to compensate for it.

I will refuse to use allies myself and I will allow it for my opponents in a case to case kind of manner. Does it make sense? Does it add some atmosphere? Or is it just some sort of abuse with the win as the only goal?

Enzephalon wrote:The character and individuality of armies would just be wiped out.

What? I'll be using allies to ADD character to my army. I can now finally play CSM with traitor guard and daemon allies. That sounds a lot more characterful than "CSM all day every day".

Allies were horribly abusable in 2nd edition, just as they were in 3rd - 5th editions of Warhammer; chances are they will be in 6th edition too.

I can finally use my old genestealer cult models alongside my tyranids as counts as IG. HUZZAH!

Better shooting now for orks?

Enzephalon wrote:The character and individuality of armies would just be wiped out.
You have a weakness in ranged attack? Take a unit from another codex to compensate for it.

You still would have to pay the points for those units.
If you have an IG player that takes 800 points of assault based orks as an ally, then thats 800 less points of manticores aimed at you. In a 1750 game, that's half his army based for assault.

What is does is remove the stereotypes from armies. You can't assume every IG army will be weak in assault and good at shooting. You can't assume every GK player will have .. well, ok nevermind -- the GK codex does not need allies, they can do everything by themselves


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Kain wrote:I can finally use my old genestealer cult models alongside my tyranids as counts as IG. HUZZAH!

I would field that as DE/Eldar counts as with IG.

For your stealers, use harlequins and wytches for your hybrids. Its not perfect, but since nid's can't ally thats your best bet.

Whoa, Sisters of Battle and Black Templars.


BURN, HERETIC, BURN!!!

labmouse42 wrote:

Enzephalon wrote:The character and individuality of armies would just be wiped out.
You have a weakness in ranged attack? Take a unit from another codex to compensate for it.

You still would have to pay the points for those units.
If you have an IG player that takes 800 points of assault based orks as an ally, then thats 800 less points of manticores aimed at you. In a 1750 game, that's half his army based for assault.

What is does is remove the stereotypes from armies. You can't assume every IG army will be weak in assault and good at shooting. You can't assume every GK player will have .. well, ok nevermind -- the GK codex does not need allies, they can do everything by themselves


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Kain wrote:I can finally use my old genestealer cult models alongside my tyranids as counts as IG. HUZZAH!

I would field that as DE/Eldar counts as with IG.

For your stealers, use harlequins and wytches for your hybrids. Its not perfect, but since nid's can't ally thats your best bet.

I'd only use them in friendly games where people would understand that genestealer cults fight alongside the Hive Fleets. So I still get to use my Trygons and Tfexes and gaunts and whatnot.

Yea for casual games who cares.

I would personally like to see 'nids team up with IG for just that reason. I think genestealer cults were very cool.
Of course, that might come from enjoying the hell out of the original space hulk when I was a kid.

For those who obviously only read the first part of my statement.
I'm perfectly fine with allies that add flavour.

What I was referring to was stuff like:
Your assault marines suck - take blood angel ones.
Don't like your regular scouts/devastators - take the space wolf equivalent.

I guess it would be highly abusable, as others mentioned.

Enzephalon wrote:
Your assault marines suck - take blood angel ones.
Don't like your regular scouts/devastators - take the space wolf equivalent..

I'm with you on this.
Lets say your a C:SM player, and you want to have some assault capabilities. You can take a BA chaplain and 2 squads of assault marines to go with your army.
Now, you buy the rest of your C:SM army. You get some cheap TH/SS termies and toss them into a LR with Vulcan along with your troops.
Yes, that's more effective than a pure C:SM list. For the cost of buying a BA HQ, you can get scoring assault troops.

So why run a full BA list instead? What opportunity cost does the list above have?
* You have to take TAC/Scout squads -- which suck
* You need to take another HQ -- not all armies want 2 HQ units
* You can't take advantage of some of the BA options, like razorback spam

I personally like the idea of allies in the game, I like the idea of having traitor guard and chaos marines in the same army. Whats wrong with that? Nothing. A foreseeable problem with all this is that it won't do much to solve balancing issues. It just makes everyone the same measurement stronger, a simple way to look at it... everyone takes GK allies, even other GK. Extra Dreadknight army anyone?

EDIT: this is a vacuum of course, not ALL armies will be allowed GK allies, basically making those who can't take them suffer for it.

JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:I personally like the idea of allies in the game, I like the idea of having traitor guard and chaos marines in the same army. Whats wrong with that? Nothing. A foreseeable problem with all this is that it won't do much to solve balancing issues. It just makes everyone the same measurement stronger, a simple way to look at it... everyone takes GK allies, even other GK. Extra Dreadknight army anyone?

EDIT: this is a vacuum of course, not ALL armies will be allowed GK allies, basically making those who can't take them suffer for it.

Personally I'm trying my best to stay positive about the new rules and what changes they will bring, however, I must admit this is one point that I am concerned about.
Without trying to sound dramatic, this has the potential to bring ruin to 40k by (further) unbalancing the game.

I believe this could be a real threat to the 'fun' of 40k.

I looked at the Allies Matrix: You can not Allie with yourself.

Example:
#1] Black Templers: They Can Ally with 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 if they don’t include Psykers.

They can ally with:
2] Blood Angels
3] Dark Angels
5] Grey Knights
6] Sisters of Battle
7] Space Marines
8] Space Wolves

They cant Ally with themselves, its not an option.

labmouse42 wrote:Yea for casual games who cares.

I would personally like to see 'nids team up with IG for just that reason. I think genestealer cults were very cool.
Of course, that might come from enjoying the hell out of the original space hulk when I was a kid.

Too bad we may never get our battle limos back.

Honestly, the thought of Imperium types throwing War Walkers against my Eldar makes me sick. I think it should be illegal to use your opponents' own units against him.

In some case, okay, but Renegade IG going with Chaos SM vs Regular IG with some SM back up make sense.

I think its a great idea and I can't wait to get the details on it.

I also think its brilliant on GW's part, they will get to sell more models from army ranges that a customer may not have large forces for.

Anpu42 wrote:I looked at the Allies Matrix: You can not Allie with yourself.

Example:
#1] Black Templers: They Can Ally with 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 if they don’t include Psykers.

They can ally with:
2] Blood Angels
3] Dark Angels
5] Grey Knights
6] Sisters of Battle
7] Space Marines
8] Space Wolves

They cant Ally with themselves, its not an option.

can you please post a link to the new ally matrix? thanks, I haven't been able to find it anywhere

Phragonist wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:I looked at the Allies Matrix: You can not Allie with yourself.

Example:
#1] Black Templers: They Can Ally with 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 if they don’t include Psykers.

They can ally with:
2] Blood Angels
3] Dark Angels
5] Grey Knights
6] Sisters of Battle
7] Space Marines
8] Space Wolves

They cant Ally with themselves, its not an option.

can you please post a link to the new ally matrix? thanks, I haven't been able to find it anywhere

I don't Remeber wich thread it's in, but it was early in one of the other 6th ed threads. I will look and see if i can find it.

Anpu42 wrote:

Phragonist wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:I looked at the Allies Matrix: You can not Allie with yourself.

Example:
#1] Black Templers: They Can Ally with 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 if they don’t include Psykers.

They can ally with:
2] Blood Angels
3] Dark Angels
5] Grey Knights
6] Sisters of Battle
7] Space Marines
8] Space Wolves

They cant Ally with themselves, its not an option.

can you please post a link to the new ally matrix? thanks, I haven't been able to find it anywhere

I don't Remeber wich thread it's in, but it was early in one of the other 6th ed threads. I will look and see if i can find it.

You mean the conjecture chart? I havn't seen the actual matrix being posted, just what people think it is.

Also, unless GW decides to change stuff, Black Templars can ally with psykers as long as they're Grey Knights, as those are the only ones they trust not to have their heads explode on the battlefield. It's in the current Codex, so I'd assume they wouldn't change it just because they can. Then again, they might just forget.

Blood Angels and Necrons are trusted allies in the new dex. FNP necrons LOLs

labmouse42 wrote:Combos like GK/IG can grant GK armies access to vendettas. In fact I would not be surprised if you see a vendetta in every army list that can take them! This means across the board, all armies will become more powerful from their current place in the meta. If all armies gain equally in power, then there is no relative shift in balance. If current weaker armies get proportionally greater power, then the game will be more balanced.
Its also possible that specific combos will be to powerful and banned -- much like Mind Twist in MTG.

What it also means is that older, weaker armies can become more powerful by allying with the newer codex's. Lets say a new Eldar codex comes out and it has some units that are insanely effective. A dark eldar or IG player can take advantage of that new model and play with it by allying with the Eldar and playing with the new model.

No thanks. Your example of GK armies with Vendettas out the wazoo is a perfect reason right there to not have allies in the standard game. Besides: Strong codex + allies from another strong codex will still be more powerful than a Weak codex + allies from a Strong codex. So this won't help codex creep as you claim either. Besides if I am playing Eldar I don't want to *have* to include GK or IG allies just be to competitive. I'd rather see codex creep itself be fixed and not have to add some silly allied forces rule to the game to combat it. Just stop the codex creep and it goes away. Write the next set of books inline with the current round of books, giving preference to those armies with older books and then STOP increasing the power level of all the books when they are written. Have some bloody quality control and oversight over the entire line of books and don't just let individual authors run willy nilly with their projects ignoring the impact all of their really cool ideas are going to have on the game at large.

Skriker




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chancetragedy wrote:I think it fixes the game. I feel like the game is broken now and this Brings it back to the golden age of second edition. If you don't think it's stupid that chaos don't have real daemons, or the imperial guard can't work with space marines, or space marine chapters WITH OTHER CHAPTERS. Then your probably drunk or stupid yourself. This change makes me so happy it's stupid.... My vanilla marines can actually have useful assault marines again... Say what!!!!!!

So having assault marines that have 4s across the board in the combat stats, and power armor, and are better than most any other comparable unit in the game with special rules, is a weakness eh? So sorry for your vanilla marines there, mate. You definitely need to replace them with jump packed and mega kitted out death company instead. Those regular assault marines just suck completely and can't even hurt a tau fire warrior.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kain wrote:I can finally use my old genestealer cult models alongside my tyranids as counts as IG. HUZZAH!

My very first army for Rogue Trader was a genestealer chaos cult. I still miss it. Finally sold it off when I realized I would never really have the chance to play it again. Some forces, though, given their backgrounds probably should not have any allied options at all. Tyranids want to consume all life that is not them so shouldn't really have allies in my opinion. In the fluff the cult was consumed by the horde once it arrived.

There are still numerous areas where allies would be cool storywise for the game, but I don't see most players using them that way. For instance my friends have allowed me to mix and match units from the CSM codex, and the Lost and the Damned codex lists with a smattering of forge world chaos pieces for a while now. I don't use the opportunity to power game, but instead use it to rotate as much of my chaos collection through the games I play as I can. So I'll run a force of CSMs supported by units of mutants and traitor guard. Been meaning to try and figure out a way to incorporate the Chaos Daemons rules into things, but haven't found a way to do so that doesn't feel exceptionally cheesy. So stick with the lousy generic daemons in the chaos book. The key is to play unique and interesting forces and not to overpower and give myself unfair advantages. Using allies as a way to start a second army is a good aspect of the concept too.

Unfortunately, after past experience with allies in 40k versions I expect that they will used in stupid powergaming ways to feed the needs of the WAAC crowd...

Skriker

Chancetragedy wrote:I think it fixes the game. I feel like the game is broken now and this Brings it back to the golden age of second edition. If you don't think it's stupid that chaos don't have real daemons, or the imperial guard can't work with space marines, or space marine chapters WITH OTHER CHAPTERS. Then your probably drunk or stupid yourself. This change makes me so happy it's stupid.... My vanilla marines can actually have useful assault marines again... Say what!!!!!!

First of all, don't call people stupid just because they don't agree with you. That is just pathetic.
Second of all, just from the "alliances" table it is obvious how unbalanced this rule (potentially) is. If you think it increases the balance that one army can take alliances from 8 other and another cannot take them AT ALL perhaps you need to think about others, not just your one and precious army.
There is absolutely NO reason not to play with alliances by house ruling it. Many people do it. Giving GK, IG, SW and BA hundred+ another units to pick from and giving Tyranids none won't "fix" this game.

In the fluff the cult was consumed by the horde once it arrived.

One of them, there's hundreds of cults and they are continually made, it's one of the better ways genestealers continue to harass and setup weakened positions on planets before arrival.

It's like saying all cultists disappeared from CSM because they all sacrificed themselves to summon daemons.

Anpu42 wrote:

Phragonist wrote:

can you please post a link to the new ally matrix? thanks, I haven't been able to find it anywhere

I don't Remeber wich thread it's in, but it was early in one of the other 6th ed threads. I will look and see if i can find it.

That matrix isn't legit in any way, it was made up by a guy on a different forum based on his interpretation of existing fluff- i.e. Blood Angels and Necrons.

I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Play IG, take Draigo and Paladins or Crowe and Purifiers or a SM biker captain and biker SM troops, etc. That enough for ya?

Or maybe play DoA and bring Imotekh and maybe Immortals in Night Scythes

King Pariah wrote:

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Play IG, take Draigo and Paladins or Crowe and Purifiers or a SM biker captain and biker SM troops, etc. That enough for ya?

If I wanted Draigo and Paladins...I'd take Draigo and Paladins. Or Purifiers. Sinking half my points (and it would be half with Paladins+Draigo) into that, and another half in a smattering of IG, would be a weak list.
We also don't know if those special abilities will work. It could well be that you are only specifically allowed Troops, no counts-as from special charectors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

King Pariah wrote:
Or maybe play DoA and bring Imotekh and maybe Immortals in Night Scythes

So half my army is deep-striking, the other half would be waiting around on the board? Now there's a solid list

I think that alot of people are forgetting that you still have to pay points for allies

Example: yes GK can go with guard but GKare alot of points which therefore means thats alot less IG in the army.

Yea sure some combos will be lame, but....IIRC there are combos now that are lame?!?!?!

EDIT:grammar

Cain wrote:I think that alot of people are forgetting that you still have to pay points for allies

Example: yes GK can go with guard but GKare alot of points which therefore means thats alot less IG in the army.

Yea sure some combos will be lame, but....IIRC there are combos now that are lame?!?!?!

EDIT:grammar

+1 this.

Most people seem to be crying foul like all of a sudden we're going to be over run by armies of 30-40 Purifyers + 4-6+ vendettas + 18 missilefangs!
Allies will still cost pts in the end, and I highly doubt that GW will let you have allies for free or as an additional force. And if it does turn out that the WAAC's crowd start ruining the tourny scene with silly OP crap? Well, I think most tournies will just up and ban allies and can all go back to simply decrying SW's/IG/BA's/'Crons/DE are so OP!!1!11! (and GK's will still be tops in the end!)

Anyways, let's at least wait for the damn rulebook which is coming in what, 8 DAYS?!!, before we all play Chicken Little...

Allies is a great concept for Imperial armies, assuming GW stopped making Marines so overpowered. It's very "fluffy" to have Inquisitors, Marines, and Guardsmen all together in the same army.

Outside of that though, you start running the risk of having stupid allied setups. Like Chaos and Orks or Necrons and Blood Angels.

2nd edition had allies and it worked out just fine. Not allowed in tourneys iirc.

King Pariah wrote:

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Play IG, take Draigo and Paladins or Crowe and Purifiers or a SM biker captain and biker SM troops, etc. That enough for ya?

Or maybe play DoA and bring Imotekh and maybe Immortals in Night Scythes

Paladins lose their wound allocation due to losing front models first, and one unit of purifiers isn't exactly scary, neither is one biker troop. Though it all depends on how much one can take really.

King Pariah wrote:

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Play IG, take Draigo and Paladins or Crowe and Purifiers or a SM biker captain and biker SM troops, etc. That enough for ya?

Or maybe play DoA and bring Imotekh and maybe Immortals in Night Scythes

What does Draigo and Paladins add to an Imperial Guard list? Sure, they're tough as nails, but either you plow a lot of points into the Paladins, in which case you don't get a lot of IG to start with, or you pay for a small squad of Paladins and Draigo, in which case it's easily isolated and taken care of, as you'll have absolutely zero units apart from possibly Rough Riders that'd be able to support the Paladins.

I like the idea for incorporating it into the game to allow you to run fluffy lists. I might use it to run rifleman dreads in my DA list for example. My brother might use it to run his CSM with his CD. And of course the other fluffy examples given above.

sure some people will find ways to abuse/break it. But if you are playing a fun game, just play people who don't take it so seriously. Unless you are competitive, and that's how you have fun, in which case you're probably doing it to.

The tournament scene may or may not allow it. Maybe some will and some won't. Just play whichever you want.

King Pariah wrote:

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Play IG, take Draigo and Paladins or Crowe and Purifiers or a SM biker captain and biker SM troops, etc. That enough for ya?

Or maybe play DoA and bring Imotekh and maybe Immortals in Night Scythes

Can you make some example lists that are much more powerful than a straight GK or IG list?

Right now I can't see you doing anything with vendettas that you can't already do with psydreads, or with melta vets that you can't do with acolytes. I'm hoping you can show me how you can make the GK codex 40% better

labmouse42 wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Play IG, take Draigo and Paladins or Crowe and Purifiers or a SM biker captain and biker SM troops, etc. That enough for ya?

Or maybe play DoA and bring Imotekh and maybe Immortals in Night Scythes

Can you make some example lists that are much more powerful than a straight GK or IG list?

Right now I can't see you doing anything with vendettas that you can't already do with psydreads, or with melta vets that you can't do with acolytes. I'm hoping you can show me how you can make the GK codex 40% better

I think the absolute worst you could do would be paladins in a valkyrie, and I'm pretty sure an FAQ would come up and say that termies cannot fit in valkyries/vendettas. That and wound allocation reliant units look like they're going to get hit with a nerf.

King Pariah wrote:

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Armies were written to have strengths and weaknesses. With allies nobody has to have weaknesses anymore. As an Eldar player with limited ranged anti-tank and few solid HQ choices,watch how many Long Fangs and SW HQ lists I make. In fact, they're going to probably be the best units in my list.

It's not good game design if I have to take units from other codices to be competitive. And yes I will have to do this to be competitive since other players will be strengthened by such cherry picking. And it's not fun. And fluff-wise it's an absolute abomination.

(disclaimer: nobody is sure of the exact implementation so there could be very little problem or an even worse one)

mercury14 wrote:
Armies were written to have strengths and weaknesses. With allies nobody has to have weaknesses anymore. As an Eldar player with limited ranged anti-tank and few solid HQ choices,watch how many Long Fangs and SW HQ lists I make. In fact, they're going to probably be the best units in my list.

I know exactly how many Long Fang squads you'll have - one. And you'll need a HQ and troops to go along with that, that's a couple hundred points deadweight, unless you can take advantage of a single squad of troops (with transport?) in a list otherwise made up of fast skimmers. Once again, the people who think allies can be cheese/overpowered don't understand the game.
If you want a Long Fang list, play SW.

Testify wrote:

mercury14 wrote:
Armies were written to have strengths and weaknesses. With allies nobody has to have weaknesses anymore. As an Eldar player with limited ranged anti-tank and few solid HQ choices,watch how many Long Fangs and SW HQ lists I make. In fact, they're going to probably be the best units in my list.

I know exactly how many Long Fang squads you'll have - one. And you'll need a HQ and troops to go along with that, that's a couple hundred points deadweight, unless you can take advantage of a single squad of troops (with transport?) in a list otherwise made up of fast skimmers. Once again, the people who think allies can be cheese/overpowered don't understand the game.
If you want a Long Fang list, play SW.

I have no problem taking a SW HQ. They're better than nearly all of my Eldar HQ choices point-for-point and far more survivable.

And SW troop choices will be far from dead weight for me. You know what IS dead weight for me? Eldar troops.

Kain wrote:I think the absolute worst you could do would be paladins in a valkyrie, and I'm pretty sure an FAQ would come up and say that termies cannot fit in valkyries/vendettas. That and wound allocation reliant units look like they're going to get hit with a nerf.

And I don't think thats going to be that bad. Why a valk over a stormchicken?

If your going with the IG ally, you need to buy a CCS and metlavet, so your 'cost' for the valk is an extra 240 or so points. The stormchicken also has POTMS so can fire a gun when its a weapon delivery system. The only real edge the valk has is the ability to outflank -- which nice you can do the same thing by just dropping paladins off in the middle of the board.

Thus far I've not seen a list that pushes way past the max current power level. What Ive seen are lists that help compensate for weaknesses found in older codex's. A primary example is the eldar, which is mid-lower teir right now. Being able to take broadsides really helps shore up their weakness and makes the list competitive agian.


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mercury14 wrote:I have no problem taking a SW HQ. They're better than nearly all of my Eldar HQ choices point-for-point and far more survivable. .

Save for Eldarad, whose argueably the best IC in the game. Yuriel is also a beast for his points too.

Kain wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercury14 wrote:I have no problem taking a SW HQ. They're better than nearly all of my Eldar HQ choices point-for-point and far more survivable. .

Save for Eldarad, whose argueably the best IC in the game. Yuriel is also a beast for his points too.

Eldrad is good. Farseers are average. The rest of the Eldar HQs aren't worth anywhere near their points.

Yriel isn't good at all. T3 and no eternal warrior is really hard to stomach. The modern game has way too many things that can kill him very quickly. There are just far too few realistic targets for him.

All I know is that I will enjoy the many fluffy and characterful conversions this rule will spawn... and rage at the many more hamfisted power-combos that usually won't even be based coherently.

Kain wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

Testify wrote:I've still yet to see why allies would unbalance the game, my thread about it was taken down.
People are whinging and making ludicrous assumptions, as well as ignoring what we already know. I'd rather spend 500 points on my own heavy support and elites than another army's HQ and troops...

Play IG, take Draigo and Paladins or Crowe and Purifiers or a SM biker captain and biker SM troops, etc. That enough for ya?

Or maybe play DoA and bring Imotekh and maybe Immortals in Night Scythes

Can you make some example lists that are much more powerful than a straight GK or IG list?

Right now I can't see you doing anything with vendettas that you can't already do with psydreads, or with melta vets that you can't do with acolytes. I'm hoping you can show me how you can make the GK codex 40% better

I think the absolute worst you could do would be paladins in a valkyrie, and I'm pretty sure an FAQ would come up and say that termies cannot fit in valkyries/vendettas. That and wound allocation reliant units look like they're going to get hit with a nerf.

You can already fly in Paladins in a Stormraven. Granted, the Valkyrie is cheaper, but it doesn't have Fortitude or an Assault Ramp, so you'd be standing around looking silly for a turn before assaulting.

lord_blackfang wrote:All I know is that I will enjoy the many fluffy and characterful conversions this rule will spawn... and rage at the many more hamfisted power-combos that usually won't even be based coherently.

Since we don't know how allies are being implemented all this chat could be for nothing

But as an Eldar player whose best/coolest powers have mostly been shared by subsequent codices, it bothers me to think that some of our last nifty units (ie War Walker squadrons) might be getting shared now as well.

mercury14 wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:All I know is that I will enjoy the many fluffy and characterful conversions this rule will spawn... and rage at the many more hamfisted power-combos that usually won't even be based coherently.

Since we don't know how allies are being implemented all this chat could be for nothing

But as an Eldar player whose best/coolest powers have mostly been shared by subsequent codices, it bothers me to think that some of our last nifty units (ie War Walker squadrons) might be getting shared now as well.

So you think that sharing war walkers is not worth being able to shore up the Eldar's biggest weakness through broadsides -- long range anti-tank.

Don't you think that helps the eldar codex more than other codex's?

labmouse42 wrote:]So you think that sharing war walkers is not worth being able to shore up the Eldar's biggest weakness through broadsides -- long range anti-tank.

Don't you think that helps the eldar codex more than other codex's?

Might be a nice increase in power. But my main point is that strengths and weaknesses are fun and interesting. I want a 40k game where armies have character, not weaknesses that aren't weaknesses because of the allies rule.

Not sure if the allies rule will help Eldar more than other armies. Part of me thinks it will due to the relatively large number of weak spots in the codex. But since it's unlikely that Eldar-specific powers (ie Guide or fortune) will work on allies, there are likle to by synergy problems that most other armies will not have to deal with.

I think other armies may have a lot to gain by taking a Farseer with Guide + Fortune, cheap War Walkers (behind re-rollable cover), and a cheap 5-man DA unit.

Fortuned Paladins...

...Where is your god now?

Kain wrote:Fortuned Paladins...

...Where is your god now?

I believe the Fortune power states that you can only target Eldar units. Thats worth double checking.

labmouse42 wrote:

Kain wrote:Fortuned Paladins...

...Where is your god now?

I believe the Fortune power states that you can only target Eldar units. Thats worth double checking.

This is almost certainly correct.

The problem for Eldar is that being able to Fortune allies would be overpowered. But not being able to fortune them creates a chunk of the list where psychic powers can't be used, thereby making Eldar units even less worth their points. Like I said, synergy problems.

To be honest, I have no problem with the Allies concept.
Min 1 HQ + 1 Troop, then 1 of each other? or whatever it is...

All I know is I'll be buying an Eldar Battle Force and probably an Autarch to go with my Dark Eldar to make a slightly more viable WWP list.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

In the fluff the cult was consumed by the horde once it arrived.

One of them, there's hundreds of cults and they are continually made, it's one of the better ways genestealers continue to harass and setup weakened positions on planets before arrival.

It's like saying all cultists disappeared from CSM because they all sacrificed themselves to summon daemons.

No it isn't. The cult is seeded, grows, infects and then begins to signal the hive fleet when the hive fleet gets closer the cult attacks and causes chaos. When the hive fleet arrives it consumes ALL. It doesn't save the cult for last. It just eats everything as it always does, reabsorbing the cult into its genetic pool. Once the fleet arrives the cult has lost its purpose and is attacked just as readily as everything else on the planet.

Yep there are cults across many different planets, but that doesn't change the fact that the hive fleet doesn't "care" about the cults except as beacons calling them to ripe targets for consumption. So even if a cult from another world happened to "show up" on a planet that is already being consumed they wouldn't be welcomed as allies, they would be consumed like everything else.

What might work, though, is an IG army with tyranid allies using only genestealers. This could show the PDF that has been corrupted by the cult...

Skriker

mercury14 wrote:
I have no problem taking a SW HQ. They're better than nearly all of my Eldar HQ choices point-for-point and far more survivable.

And SW troop choices will be far from dead weight for me. You know what IS dead weight for me? Eldar troops.

You don't like Eldar troops and HQ...don't play Eldar.
Your SW/Eldar hybrid doesn't sound very scary at all. None of the "omg imba" ally lists do.
Not as scary as say, current GK lists.
One thing to bare in mind - how many men the guard can fit into a single troop choice. I think a lot of imperial armies would be glad of a cheap screening blob.

Byte wrote:2nd edition had allies and it worked out just fine. Not allowed in tourneys iirc.

No it didn't. Not even close...so many cheesy armies taking small amounts of forces from their own list and then filling the rest of the army with cheesy special characters from other lists. I'll take a pass on that, thank you very much.

Mind you I have no problems with interesting and common sense type allied forces. IG and Space Marines works for me. A unit of GK termies supporting another Imperial army also works and makes sense. Even Eldar and Imperial forces joining forces from time to time works for me, but back in 2nd edition for every 1 player who had an army with allies that made sense and made for a characterful force, there were 5 more power gamers who had armies with allies that made for character full forces.

Skriker

I don't have time to come up with a precise list and I'd bet anything that quite a few of you would say something along the lines of "that's not viable for low cost games, well we don't know exactly how allies is going to work so maybe that list won't even be possible, etc." So I'm going to make this clear now, I rarely play sub 2000 point battles prefering 2500+ so these general lists are going to be tailored for such. Also we don't know until we see it how allies is going to pan out and there is NOTHING wrong with anticipating the worst. Here we go:

IG w/ GK:
CCS and Draigo
Vet squads in chimeras and paladins
Valkyries/vendettas (maybe something like two valks/vend's and dreadknight)
LRBT squadron(s)

And this one, well I'm changing up a bit Crons w/ DoA support
Imotekh and Dante
Sanguinary Priests
Sanguinary Guards and Immortals/warriors (in transports most likely)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

Or maybe:
BA Termi Capt. And Imotekh with pulse tek
TH/SS Termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (in ghost Arks)
Scarabs

BA termi Capt. And Overlord in CCB
TH/SS termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (ghost arks)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

Skriker wrote:

Byte wrote:2nd edition had allies and it worked out just fine. Not allowed in tourneys iirc.

No it didn't. Not even close...so many cheesy armies taking small amounts of forces from their own list and then filling the rest of the army with cheesy special characters from other lists. I'll take a pass on that, thank you very much.

Mind you I have no problems with interesting and common sense type allied forces. IG and Space Marines works for me. A unit of GK termies supporting another Imperial army also works and makes sense. Even Eldar and Imperial forces joining forces from time to time works for me, but back in 2nd edition for every 1 player who had an army with allies that made sense and made for a characterful force, there were 5 more power gamers who had armies with allies that made for character full forces.

Skriker

Sure it did, you just didn't like it. That's OK. Allies in 2nd didn't break the game by any stretch. Just fluff receptors and feelings.

Every army allied to space wolves being able to take JOTWW.
If psychic powers from the rulebook can be applied then people will take the cheapest ally that can use the strongest powers that do something that your army cannot.

Like Orks will go for AT or JOTWW for obvious reasons.

King Pariah wrote:I don't have time to come up with a precise list and I'd bet anything that quite a few of you would say something along the lines of "that's not viable for low cost games, well we don't know exactly how allies is going to work so maybe that list won't even be possible, etc." So I'm going to make this clear now, I rarely play sub 2000 point battles prefering 2500+ so these general lists are going to be tailored for such. Also we don't know until we see it how allies is going to pan out and there is NOTHING wrong with anticipating the worst. Here we go:

IG w/ GK:
CCS and Draigo
Vet squads in chimeras and paladins
Valkyries/vendettas (maybe something like two valks/vend's and dreadknight)
LRBT squadron(s)

And this one, well I'm changing up a bit Crons w/ DoA support
Imotekh and Dante
Sanguinary Priests
Sanguinary Guards and Immortals/warriors (in transports most likely)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

Or maybe:
BA Termi Capt. And Imotekh with pulse tek
TH/SS Termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (in ghost Arks)
Scarabs

BA termi Capt. And Overlord in CCB
TH/SS termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (ghost arks)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

You have the rules for allies in 6th edition? Point is: All we have is a loose FOC. There's level of friendship rules and other rumored limitation involving transports and character buffs. Until we have it all...

Throwing darts in the dark.

My orks so want to team up with that eldar HQ that can give fortune to my Lootas

Twin linked deff guns, oh the joy that would bring

sirlynchmob wrote:My orks so want to team up with that eldar HQ that can give fortune to my Lootas

Twin linked deff guns, oh the joy that would bring

Fortune and Guide specify select an Eldar unit, so they won't be able to Fortune or Guide non-eldar allies

Byte wrote:

King Pariah wrote:I don't have time to come up with a precise list and I'd bet anything that quite a few of you would say something along the lines of "that's not viable for low cost games, well we don't know exactly how allies is going to work so maybe that list won't even be possible, etc." So I'm going to make this clear now, I rarely play sub 2000 point battles prefering 2500+ so these general lists are going to be tailored for such. Also we don't know until we see it how allies is going to pan out and there is NOTHING wrong with anticipating the worst. Here we go:

IG w/ GK:
CCS and Draigo
Vet squads in chimeras and paladins
Valkyries/vendettas (maybe something like two valks/vend's and dreadknight)
LRBT squadron(s)

And this one, well I'm changing up a bit Crons w/ DoA support
Imotekh and Dante
Sanguinary Priests
Sanguinary Guards and Immortals/warriors (in transports most likely)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

Or maybe:
BA Termi Capt. And Imotekh with pulse tek
TH/SS Termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (in ghost Arks)
Scarabs

BA termi Capt. And Overlord in CCB
TH/SS termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (ghost arks)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

You have the rules for allies in 6th edition? Point is: All we have is a loose FOC. There's level of friendship rules and other rumored limitation involving transports and character buffs. Until we have it all...

Throwing darts in the dark.

Dear Byte:
Please keep up the good work, using logic to refute the doomsaying commentaries about allies.

Sincerely,
Kanluwen.


But really. There's too many unknowns at this point to make a reliably informed opinion about exactly how allies are going to work.
We know who can ally with who, but not exactly "how" they're allying.

Well the rumours say only the HQ's and troops.
The ally page only shows HQ's so I would assume that's confirmed. Troops are a mabye, anything else is going to be a no.

Otherwise my orks are taking raiders and flying into the enemy with 36" range or venoms or something that just makes them OP.

HQ's make sense and so do troops.
Probably a 0-1 Limitation so gimmicks aren't as bad.

Ovion wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:My orks so want to team up with that eldar HQ that can give fortune to my Lootas

Twin linked deff guns, oh the joy that would bring

Fortune and Guide specify select an Eldar unit, so they won't be able to Fortune or Guide non-eldar allies

what a buzz kill.

Oh well, maybe the allies rules will allow for it

sirlynchmob wrote:

Ovion wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:My orks so want to team up with that eldar HQ that can give fortune to my Lootas

Twin linked deff guns, oh the joy that would bring

Fortune and Guide specify select an Eldar unit, so they won't be able to Fortune or Guide non-eldar allies

what a buzz kill.

Oh well, maybe the allies rules will allow for it

Fortuned Paladins with an apothecary. "Small arms fire? Feth that noise!"

Dog. wrote:Rules rumours for allies as they stand-

-Only one of each FOC slot for an Ally

-1x HQ and 1X Troop are mandatory

-Only certain factions can ally with others.

Thanks for this, been looking for an explanation on allies since yesterday.

If it is indeed the case that allies have these rather strict penalties, what's the problem? It seems perfectly fine to me.

Kain wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Ovion wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:My orks so want to team up with that eldar HQ that can give fortune to my Lootas

Twin linked deff guns, oh the joy that would bring

Fortune and Guide specify select an Eldar unit, so they won't be able to Fortune or Guide non-eldar allies

what a buzz kill.

Oh well, maybe the allies rules will allow for it

Fortuned Paladins with an apothecary. "Small arms fire? Feth that noise!"

I'm sorry, but when did Space Marine Paladins become Eldar again?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Kain wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Ovion wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:My orks so want to team up with that eldar HQ that can give fortune to my Lootas

Twin linked deff guns, oh the joy that would bring

Fortune and Guide specify select an Eldar unit, so they won't be able to Fortune or Guide non-eldar allies

what a buzz kill.

Oh well, maybe the allies rules will allow for it

Fortuned Paladins with an apothecary. "Small arms fire? Feth that noise!"

I'm sorry, but when did Space Marine Paladins become Eldar again?

The ally doesn't matter, just that they help my lootas shoot better I'll have to spend a day at the store going through my ally codex's, to see who all would help.

Kanluwen wrote:

Byte wrote:

King Pariah wrote:I don't have time to come up with a precise list and I'd bet anything that quite a few of you would say something along the lines of "that's not viable for low cost games, well we don't know exactly how allies is going to work so maybe that list won't even be possible, etc." So I'm going to make this clear now, I rarely play sub 2000 point battles prefering 2500+ so these general lists are going to be tailored for such. Also we don't know until we see it how allies is going to pan out and there is NOTHING wrong with anticipating the worst. Here we go:

IG w/ GK:
CCS and Draigo
Vet squads in chimeras and paladins
Valkyries/vendettas (maybe something like two valks/vend's and dreadknight)
LRBT squadron(s)

And this one, well I'm changing up a bit Crons w/ DoA support
Imotekh and Dante
Sanguinary Priests
Sanguinary Guards and Immortals/warriors (in transports most likely)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

Or maybe:
BA Termi Capt. And Imotekh with pulse tek
TH/SS Termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (in ghost Arks)
Scarabs

BA termi Capt. And Overlord in CCB
TH/SS termi's in LRC's
Tac Marines (in rhinos/razorbacks) and Warriors (ghost arks)
Wraiths
Annihilation Barges

You have the rules for allies in 6th edition? Point is: All we have is a loose FOC. There's level of friendship rules and other rumored limitation involving transports and character buffs. Until we have it all...

Throwing darts in the dark.

Dear Byte:
Please keep up the good work, using logic to refute the doomsaying commentaries about allies.

Sincerely,
Kanluwen.


But really. There's too many unknowns at this point to make a reliably informed opinion about exactly how allies are going to work.
We know who can ally with who, but not exactly "how" they're allying.

Dear K and B,

I posted a little "disclaimer" if you will that states that it's me deliberately assuming the worst. I always assume the worst so when things come out I tend not to be disappointed... unless it comes out as I had assumed.

Thank you

-KP

Dr. What wrote:I'm not a competitive gamer, but I think this has some neat fluff values.

Proper Chaos Armies.

Having Guard hold the line until the Angels of Death (SM) come.

A proper Blood Axe klan (Imperial allies).

This was my thought, fluff value.

Like maybe all the times that Elda and IG/SM have teamed up to defeat Chaos.

I'm looking forward to playing a Sisters of Battle army with all the fixin's. Mainly in the form of Imperial Guard Redemptionists.

Or, I could use the GK Codex to bring an inquisitor back into the mix.

Planning on doing a Dark Eldar force with some Kroot allies, as described in one instance of the fluff.

I don't play tourneys anymore, so I'm not building anything stupid, in fact the allies I use are probably more of a hindrance.

@King my comment wasn't supposed to be directed at you but I guess it was. It should have been directed at topic.

You were clear enough good sir.

As a new player at first I was kinda put off by the idea of allies. I didn't think some of the ally choices made sense (the Necron book I'd looked at said they tried to destroy all organic life, but I've sense been informed that changed for some reason...) and the army I like the most (Tyranids) doesn't have any allies (I agree with Tyranids not having allies though, it just wouldn't make sense to me).

However after thinking about it, allies is a great way for new players to try out different armies without commiting a big amount of money towards an army they aren't sure if they like yet. For example after I got my Tyranids I decided I'd start a small second army (CSM) to teach a friend of mine how to play and eventually grow into a backup army for when I want a break from my main. After I looked at the other armies more I decided I'd rather do IG as my next army, but I'd either be building 3 armies (Nids, CSM, and IG) or I'd be building 2 armies and having 500pts of CSM that I paid for just sitting on the shelf. Now that 6th lets me have allies I can just build my IG army and use those CSM models with it instead of letting them collect dust.

Basically my plan is to set aside X amount of points for allies in my IG army build and use that space to try out different armies. It's kind of a smart move marketing-wise on GW's part because a HQ and a unit of Troops is not too much of an investment to try something new. I've thought stuff like Tau and Necrons were cool, but there was no way 4 or 5 different armies was going to be in my budget (not to mention assembly/painting time), now I can sample them as allies instead.

Hope that didn't ramble on too much, basically just wanted to say that I think allies will be a good thing for new players like me.

Note: I mean a good thing as far as fun/trying new things goes. I've no idea how this will effect game balance, but I just play what I think looks fun anyways.

Im looking forward to allies,
even if only for the small yet amusing chance of having a space marine sergeant executed by a lord commisar

Calgar joining a CCS. He choses to fail his Ld test, and Commissar executes Papa Smurf

Grey Templar wrote:Calgar joining a CCS. He choses to fail his Ld test, and Commissar executes Papa Smurf

BRILLIANT!

What I am worried about is dedicated transports. I want to be able to bring my BA with their razorbacks to my IG army, and I don't think it would be TOO bad. Make it so allies/base army cant mix and match transports and all should be good. After all, you are still paying for them.