So im wondering, How many dakkanauts believe in the paranormal? Ghosts, Poltergeists, demons and such?
I myself do, I finding all so fascinating.

Go watch Supernatural

Auxellion wrote:Go watch Supernatural

What he said. It's a really Awesome show.

I don't.

I don't.

I believe in spirits to a certain degree.

Main belief comes from an old friends class picture, where you could clearly spot a shade of a person, that she claims absolutely wasn't present at the time.
(The school itself was an old prison camp, occupied by the Nazi's during WWII. And deaths did occur there during that time.)

I don't. I am open to the possibility of life forms developing parallel to the ones on earth, but I have zero reason to believe there are any at this time.

As for the rest of the supernatural, all I have to say is just because you can't explain it with a scientifically sound reason doesn't mean that it's actually dead people floating around you. And I say this having seen "ghosts" myself. Mine were (as I found out later) hallucinations based upon sleep deprivation.

I don't.

I am a belieber.

Ghosts? Nah, JB fulfils the spiritual side of my life.

daedalus wrote:I don't. I am open to the possibility of life forms developing parallel to the ones on earth, but I have zero reason to believe there are any at this time.

As for the rest of the supernatural, all I have to say is just because you can't explain it with a scientifically sound reason doesn't mean that it's actually dead people floating around you. And I say this having seen "ghosts" myself. Mine were (as I found out later) hallucinations based upon sleep deprivation.

Yeah. That's understandable. But in my case, I saw these "maybe-hallucinations" in a picture. And so did my friend.

I believe in spirits and have photographic proof.

I don't always believe in ghosts, but when I do I have clear photographic proof.

If ghosts aren't real what were the ghostbusters up to?

Do you think they just used it as a front for robbery? Explains the beige station wagon.

Maybe they invented ghosts.

Makes sense.

I believe in paranormal things TBH. Ive seen/heard things before that just didnt make any sense where it came from. But, I also know that most of what is reported is either misunderstanding the world around you, or made up. But there is that small bit that really doesnt make sense.

Like how headphone wires always get tangled up in a drawer?

More like keys in a pocket. You have the keys in your hand, and they are fine. You place them in a pocket and magically they are a knotted feth ball that you cannot imagine how to untangle METAL KEYS

I would say its clear yo have haunted jeans. Were your jeans involved in any murders and/or Historic events?

Nope, I am yet to see a single piece of evidence for paranormal beings. I would like to see some as it would be interesting, but don't think evidence will ever exist, because the things themselves don't.

I don't know what to say TBH. I haven't had any encounters myself, although I know some people who claim they did. I have read a couple of those "Ghost encouter" books that are quite interesting, some encounters in particular can be pretty hard to merely dismiss as a hallucination, especially those that happen regularly over a period of time. There's also some "ghosts" documented as actively communicating with observers. But I can't say for certain either way if I genuinely "believe" or not.

Also to the headphone/keys thing - too damn true!

I believe that things like ghosts and demons are real... in the sense that they exist in your neural pathways.

I once stayed with my wife in the Mermaid Inn in Rye, which dates back to 1420 (was rebuilt then!) and took a picture of the room.

When developed, there was a distinct ghost type of thing in the picture.

Of course it might have been a fault in development but I like to thing it was a ghost.

I don;t really believe in ghosts, monsters, UFOs, and othe rsuch stuff.... but I really like to pretend; because it is more fun to believe in them!

I sure do. In fact I've actually been able to develop several unique means for studying them. I try to keep it on the down low of course, some folks aren't happy with that stuff getting around. I've got a couple of my old modified cameras lying around we call them "Spook Cams" just to be cute about it I guess. I'd be willing to sell you one or two of them if you like, as I've got newer ones now and those are just lying around. Ghosts are more common than you'd think really, just point and shoot in any random direction and you should get a good one after couple of nights.

If you're interested send me a PM, we should be able to work out a price. It's usually a few hundered bucks, but these ones are a tiny bit beat up.

Perkustin wrote:Like how headphone wires always get tangled up in a drawer?

How empty coat hangers will reproduce in your closet when no one watches!

How USBs will re-orient themselves so that you get it wrong the first two times you try to plug into your computer!

kronk wrote:
How USBs will re-orient them selves so that you get it wrong the first two times you try to plug into your computer!

This still haunts me to this day.



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I don't understand why we don't design plugs to be circular in nature with each lead being a concentric metal circle within the outer shielding of the plug itself. The entire thing could then be magnetized and recess only slightly into the jack.

I believe that it is probable that life exists elsewhere in our universe, but I find it incredibly unlikely that we'll ever meet anything like ourselves - if the evolutionary timeline of Earth is anything to go by.

Its bull

Are ghost real?

Is Rick Ross the Bawse?

I do not believe in them.

But I do love reading a good story about paranormal events. I wish they were real :(

This thread title is misleading...

I intend to become a poltergeist when I die. I'll rearrange furniture, hide TV remotes and clog the shower drain with shoes.

I don't. UFO's maybe but its extremely unlikely that they are buzzing about making pretty patterns in crops/abducting rednecks.

Aside from anything else if supernatural being exist they are then by definition natural (or artifical).

I like to wish some of it was true, just because I like the idea. Something along the lines of Charmed.

Demons? No.

Ghosts? Not bloody likely.

Aliens?I absolutely believe there are sentient life forms on other planets. They have never been to earth and, unless they've developed faster than light travel or communications they will never contact us, and at our current technology level, we sure as hell will never contact them. Also, FTL is unlikely, and, in fact, according the laws of physics, (if I remember high school physics correctly ) impossible... though sometimes the laws of physics don't behave as they should.

Essentially, yes, there are probably aliens, but at this point it's utterly irrelevant to humanity.

Palindrome wrote:I don't. UFO's maybe but its extremely unlikely that they are buzzing about making pretty patterns in crops/abducting rednecks.

IF they are, then hat make rednecks so special? Why are they always the ones being abducted,
Unless of course my suspicions are correct and rednecks are a different species.

RatBot wrote:. Also, FTL is unlikely, and, in fact, according the laws of physics, (if I remember high school physics correctly ) impossible... though sometimes the laws of physics don't behave as they should.
.

FTL is impossible but at 1/10th of the speed of light time appears to slow and distances shorten, yeah go figure :L

kronk wrote:How empty coat hangers will reproduce in your closet when no one watches!

Well at least they're doing it while nobody's watching, unlike dogs.

LoneLictor wrote:I intend to become a poltergeist when I die. I'll rearrange furniture, hide TV remotes and clog the shower drain with shoes.

I want to be a Poltergeist that annoys other ghosts...

Peeves?

I don't believe in ANYTHING supernatural. Which isn't explicitly stating that I don't believe in spirits or ghosts. I doubt their existence, but if they do exist, they would be part of the natural world in some way or another and there would be a scientific explanation for them if we studied long and hard enough.

Now aliens/UFOs:

I cannot see how there couldn't be intelligent life somewhere out there, after all, it happened once on our planet, so it therefore can happen anywhere given the right conditions. I am doubtful that they have ever been to Earth however.

To anyone who says they don't believe in UFOs, I'll ask you this: You really don't believe that there have been unidentified flying objects? Of course there is such a thing as UFOs. It is generally the government messing around or an otherwise human-constructed aircraft that looks unconventional enough.




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Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

RatBot wrote:. Also, FTL is unlikely, and, in fact, according the laws of physics, (if I remember high school physics correctly ) impossible... though sometimes the laws of physics don't behave as they should.
.

FTL is impossible but at 1/10th of the speed of light time appears to slow and distances shorten, yeah go figure :L

FTL travel is impossible, but there are physically possible ways of traveling vast distances quickly other than traveling faster than light. Wormhole travel, for instance, or other things we haven't thought of.

I believe that when you die everything upstairs that made you you goes out with a fizzle and all that’s left is a rather stiff and cold flabby body that rapidly becomes putrid.

And it would take the ghost of my dead grandmother popping out of the wall and smacking me in the gob before I believe otherwise.

Not too keen on UFO's either, I do believe that there is life elsewhere in the universe but, I don't believe that they pop down to earth every once in a while to annoy mad photographers.

As a Christian I certainly believe in Demons. Satan after all is a Demon. Do I believe in the hollywood/games workshop version of demons...no.

Ghosts could possibly be a sign of demonic influence...not sure though.

GG

GalacticDefender wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

RatBot wrote:. Also, FTL is unlikely, and, in fact, according the laws of physics, (if I remember high school physics correctly ) impossible... though sometimes the laws of physics don't behave as they should.
.

FTL is impossible but at 1/10th of the speed of light time appears to slow and distances shorten, yeah go figure :L

FTL travel is impossible, but there are physically possible ways of traveling vast distances quickly other than traveling faster than light. Wormhole travel, for instance, or other things we haven't thought of.

Also a warp drive (probably the only thing in Star Trek that is actually based on real physics)

generalgrog wrote:As a Christian I certainly believe in Demons. Satan after all is a Demon. Do I believe in the hollywood/games workshop version of demons...no.

Ghosts could possibly be a sign of demonic influence...not sure though.

GG

Satan is not a demon, he is an angel, a fallen one, but by no means a demon which according to Abrahamic beliefs are separate entities.

OT: No I do not believe in the supernatural.

I'm of the religious sorts, and i am told that demons do exist to tempt us, that being really all and that the great human spirit can ward them away etc etc.

EDIT: Also told that sometimes spirits in purgatory perform their penance one earth in some fashion, one story being that a priest who took stipends or some such even though he did not perform his services and basically was all ghost priest like performing them in an empty church at night.

+1 to Satan being a fallen angel. Now that that's over with...

My step brother took pictures of a supposedly haunted building, snapped one photo down a totally empty hallway and looked at the picture when he got back to his room. See-through human shape in the middle of the hall. Nobody believed it until he passed the picture around. Kind of hard not to believe after seeing it...

When I was in college I worked in two buildings that were haunted-one ghost only watched me as I closed up at night (not friendly-it was very creepy), the other screwed around with us-my stupidly brave friend tried to run away, I fell over (never having experienced vertigo before and having near perfect balance) and it manifested in front of another friend and shrieked at him.

So yes...I believe in ghosts. And aliens are a given-anyone who believes this planet is the only one capable of supporting life in the entire universe is either arrogant or stupid beyond belief. Possibly both. Demons? Only Satan's minions in hell. No Constantine-type stuff.

kronk wrote:

Perkustin wrote:Like how headphone wires always get tangled up in a drawer?

How empty coat hangers will reproduce in your closet when no one watches!

How USBs will re-orient themselves so that you get it wrong the first two times you try to plug into your computer!

How 2 socks go into the washing machine but only 1 ever comes out

I believe in the paranormal and the Extraterrestrial. My girlfriends old house had a ghost and would be quite irritating when I would stay there. He was a bit jealous.

If they do I would think it's not down to Supernatural reasons, but more to do with physics. As we all break down to atoms when we die I wonder if it's possible that these atoms could come together to create a "ghost". Am I correct in thinking that they have some sort of electrical charge in them? If so it act like some sort of recording device. Could also explain reincarnation.

Whatever it is I've always thought that the government should find out one way or the other and put it to bed.

Of course I don't. What is this; the dark ages?

Wolfstan wrote:If they do I would think it's not down to Supernatural reasons, but more to do with physics. As we all break down to atoms when we die I wonder if it's possible that these atoms could come together to create a "ghost". Am I correct in thinking that they have some sort of electrical charge in them? If so it act like some sort of recording device. Could also explain reincarnation.

Whatever it is I've always thought that the government should find out one way or the other and put it to bed.

I've always wondered about this a bit too. I'm not a scientist or know much about anything so the following statements/questiosn may be grossly negligent.

Since energy can never be destroyed, only converted; and all "thought" is just electrical synapses firingas a form of energy; aren't all thoughts essentially immrotal (until they are converted into something else, like matter?)? If a human consciousness is only a certain format of electrical impulses at a particular time and place, is it possible for these "energy" patterns to be reproduced someplace else by mere chance?

timetowaste85 wrote:+1 to Satan being a fallen angel. Now that that's over with...

My step brother took pictures of a supposedly haunted building, snapped one photo down a totally empty hallway and looked at the picture when he got back to his room. See-through human shape in the middle of the hall. Nobody believed it until he passed the picture around. Kind of hard not to believe after seeing it...

When I was in college I worked in two buildings that were haunted-one ghost only watched me as I closed up at night (not friendly-it was very creepy), the other screwed around with us-my stupidly brave friend tried to run away, I fell over (never having experienced vertigo before and having near perfect balance) and it manifested in front of another friend and shrieked at him.

So yes...I believe in ghosts. And aliens are a given-anyone who believes this planet is the only one capable of supporting life in the entire universe is either arrogant or stupid beyond belief. Possibly both. Demons? Only Satan's minions in hell. No Constantine-type stuff.

Nice that you have photographic evidence, care to share it with the rest of us?


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Easy E wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:If they do I would think it's not down to Supernatural reasons, but more to do with physics. As we all break down to atoms when we die I wonder if it's possible that these atoms could come together to create a "ghost". Am I correct in thinking that they have some sort of electrical charge in them? If so it act like some sort of recording device. Could also explain reincarnation.

Whatever it is I've always thought that the government should find out one way or the other and put it to bed.

I've always wondered about this a bit too. I'm not a scientist or know much about anything so the following statements/questiosn may be grossly negligent.

Since energy can never be destroyed, only converted; and all "thought" is just electrical synapses firingas a form of energy; aren't all thoughts essentially immrotal (until they are converted into something else, like matter?)? If a human consciousness is only a certain format of electrical impulses at a particular time and place, is it possible for these "energy" patterns to be reproduced someplace else by mere chance?

It might be just me, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

When we die we don't break down into atoms any more that the chicken that I ate for dinner yesterday did! When we die, our bodies and are used as nutrients by either animals, plants or microbes of various types, that's what decomposition is all about.

And our thought patterns are only bio-electrical impulses going around in our brain, that is true, but what do you mean by "reproduced someplace else by mere chance"? Those patterns don't just happen out of thin air, you need to have the correct electrochemical environment...

Yes, but we've ventured into that territory once before.

PhantomViper wrote:

It might be just me, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

When we die we don't break down into atoms any more that the chicken that I ate for dinner yesterday did! When we die, our bodies and are used as nutrients by either animals, plants or microbes of various types, that's what decomposition is all about.

And our thought patterns are only bio-electrical impulses going around in our brain, that is true, but what do you mean by "reproduced someplace else by mere chance"? Those patterns don't just happen out of thin air, you need to have the correct electrochemical environment...

Nothing is ever completely destroyed. Have you not ever heard of the saying about us being made from Stardust? We are made up from Stardust and that gets recycled, whether it's back into a living breathing human or in ten million years into a rock.

Easy E wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:If they do I would think it's not down to Supernatural reasons, but more to do with physics. As we all break down to atoms when we die I wonder if it's possible that these atoms could come together to create a "ghost". Am I correct in thinking that they have some sort of electrical charge in them? If so it act like some sort of recording device. Could also explain reincarnation.

Whatever it is I've always thought that the government should find out one way or the other and put it to bed.

I've always wondered about this a bit too. I'm not a scientist or know much about anything so the following statements/questiosn may be grossly negligent.

Since energy can never be destroyed, only converted; and all "thought" is just electrical synapses firingas a form of energy; aren't all thoughts essentially immrotal (until they are converted into something else, like matter?)? If a human consciousness is only a certain format of electrical impulses at a particular time and place, is it possible for these "energy" patterns to be reproduced someplace else by mere chance?

Technically yes in a "infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters" kind of way, practically speaking an exact copy of your brain at any given time is so incredibly unlikely that it may as well be impossible.

Wolfstan wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

It might be just me, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

When we die we don't break down into atoms any more that the chicken that I ate for dinner yesterday did! When we die, our bodies and are used as nutrients by either animals, plants or microbes of various types, that's what decomposition is all about.

And our thought patterns are only bio-electrical impulses going around in our brain, that is true, but what do you mean by "reproduced someplace else by mere chance"? Those patterns don't just happen out of thin air, you need to have the correct electrochemical environment...

Nothing is ever completely destroyed. Have you not ever heard of the saying about us being made from Stardust? We are made up from Stardust and that gets recycled, whether it's back into a living breathing human or in ten million years into a rock.

Stardust?

Stars made all the atoms in the universe (aside from hydrogen). Therefore everything is made from stardust.

But only stardust from stars that went nova

PhantomViper wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

It might be just me, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

When we die we don't break down into atoms any more that the chicken that I ate for dinner yesterday did! When we die, our bodies and are used as nutrients by either animals, plants or microbes of various types, that's what decomposition is all about.

And our thought patterns are only bio-electrical impulses going around in our brain, that is true, but what do you mean by "reproduced someplace else by mere chance"? Those patterns don't just happen out of thin air, you need to have the correct electrochemical environment...

Nothing is ever completely destroyed. Have you not ever heard of the saying about us being made from Stardust? We are made up from Stardust and that gets recycled, whether it's back into a living breathing human or in ten million years into a rock.

Stardust?

The stuff that the universe is made up of.

Krellnus wrote:

generalgrog wrote:As a Christian I certainly believe in Demons. Satan after all is a Demon. Do I believe in the hollywood/games workshop version of demons...no.

Ghosts could possibly be a sign of demonic influence...not sure though.

GG

Satan is not a demon, he is an angel, a fallen one, but by no means a demon.

Trying to post from iPhone..so sorry for short response but according to tChristian belief a fallen angel is by default a demon. Satan fell to earth with 1/3 of the angels(don't remember exact text right now). So Satan and 1/3 of the angels being all fallen angels are considered demons.
GG

generalgrog wrote:
Trying to post from iPhone..so sorry for short response but according to Christian belief a fallen angel is by default a demon. Satan fell to earth with 1/3 of the angels(don't remember exact text right now). So Satan and 1/3 of the angels being all fallen angels are considered demons.
GG

Yes, demons are simply fallen angels according to the Bible.

I believe in Demons/Angels/God.

I myself believe that Demons do torment people in various ways. I have heard first-hand accounts of odd events happening to someone they attribute to ghosts, but I would attribute to demons.

When I was younger I had something called night-terrors which is like a night-mare, but far worse. You are awake, but your view of reality is incredibly twisted and you are scared to death of everything. This happened to me when I was 5-10 years old. I genuinely believe that it was caused by demons tormenting me. It has happened to me and another person I know and it has ended (for both of us) when we prayed about it continually.

I'd never heard the term "Stardust" to describe the process of "hydrogen -> nucleosynthesis-> heavy elements created -> star goes nova -> created elements spread through the universe" before.

It just seams like a gross oversimplification and romanticization of a highly complex process to me.

Carl Sagan used to use that term all of the time. Also, it's in a Crosby, Stills, and Nash song! I hear it quite a bit on the science/space/nature programs on the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Science Channel.

It's probably an American/United Kingdom phrase you hadn't been exposed to.

Nothing is ever completely destroyed. Have you not ever heard of the saying about us being made from Stardust? We are made up from Stardust and that gets recycled, whether it's back into a living breathing human or in ten million years into a rock.

When matter comes into contact with antimatter they are both annihilated entirely.

If we are talking about aliens then yes they undoubtedly exist, we probably have never net them, but they are out there. Ghosts, daemons etc. not a chance.

dæl wrote:

If we are talking about aliens then yes they undoubtedly exist, we probably have never net them, but they are out there. Ghosts, daemons etc. not a chance.

This right here is a perfect example of faith.

GG

Religion thread ahoy! Thar on the horizon, Cap'n! Ready the flame cannons and bible bombs! Prepare to debate your maker!

Please lets not turn this into a thread about religion.

rubiksnoob wrote:Religion thread ahoy! Thar on the horizon, Cap'n! Ready the flame cannons and bible bombs! Prepare to debate your maker!

It wasnt until you started to compare it to one.

generalgrog wrote:

dæl wrote:

If we are talking about aliens then yes they undoubtedly exist, we probably have never net them, but they are out there. Ghosts, daemons etc. not a chance.

This right here is a perfect example of faith.

GG

No, its a perfect example of probability. A hundred billion stars in a hundred billion galaxies means that there will be quite a lot of planets in the goldilocks zone, and our goldilocks zone may not apply to non carbon based life. Hell, there may be sentient life in our solar system on Titan or Enceladus.

I'll just leave this here....

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2012/06/14/the-sirens-of-titan/

Very cool

dæl wrote:

Nothing is ever completely destroyed. Have you not ever heard of the saying about us being made from Stardust? We are made up from Stardust and that gets recycled, whether it's back into a living breathing human or in ten million years into a rock.

When matter comes into contact with antimatter they are both annihilated entirely.

If we are talking about aliens then yes they undoubtedly exist, we probably have never net them, but they are out there. Ghosts, daemons etc. not a chance.

Close, when matter and the particles antimatter counterpart collide then annihilate into energy as per E=MC^2.

I have witnessed enough of the supernatural that I have no logical choice but to believe it exists. How much exists and in which form is more the issue, I try to avoid rejecting claims out of hand

PhantomViper wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:+1 to Satan being a fallen angel. Now that that's over with...

My step brother took pictures of a supposedly haunted building, snapped one photo down a totally empty hallway and looked at the picture when he got back to his room. See-through human shape in the middle of the hall. Nobody believed it until he passed the picture around. Kind of hard not to believe after seeing it...

When I was in college I worked in two buildings that were haunted-one ghost only watched me as I closed up at night (not friendly-it was very creepy), the other screwed around with us-my stupidly brave friend tried to run away, I fell over (never having experienced vertigo before and having near perfect balance) and it manifested in front of another friend and shrieked at him.

So yes...I believe in ghosts. And aliens are a given-anyone who believes this planet is the only one capable of supporting life in the entire universe is either arrogant or stupid beyond belief. Possibly both. Demons? Only Satan's minions in hell. No Constantine-type stuff.

Nice that you have photographic evidence, care to share it with the rest of us?

Sure-I sent him a text asking for it. It's 2am here though and he has work at 6-I wouldn't expect an answer til his first break. Is that an honest 'nice' or a snide 'nice'? Hard to tell online. Honest gets a pleasant 'sure'. Snide gets narrowed eyes.


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The Bringer wrote:

generalgrog wrote:
Trying to post from iPhone..so sorry for short response but according to Christian belief a fallen angel is by default a demon. Satan fell to earth with 1/3 of the angels(don't remember exact text right now). So Satan and 1/3 of the angels being all fallen angels are considered demons.
GG

Yes, demons are simply fallen angels according to the Bible.

I believe in Demons/Angels/God.

I myself believe that Demons do torment people in various ways. I have heard first-hand accounts of odd events happening to someone they attribute to ghosts, but I would attribute to demons.

When I was younger I had something called night-terrors which is like a night-mare, but far worse. You are awake, but your view of reality is incredibly twisted and you are scared to death of everything. This happened to me when I was 5-10 years old. I genuinely believe that it was caused by demons tormenting me. It has happened to me and another person I know and it has ended (for both of us) when we prayed about it continually.

Happened to me twice. Once when I was 18, the other time 3 weeks ago. It's hard to snap out of, but it's an imbalance of chemicals, not a possession.

Imbalance caused by Demons mate

Just google "old hag syndrome" and you will find that night terrors are far more common than you may have thought.
It is interesting that different cultures interperit the cause of night terrors in very diverse ways, yet all have the same basic symptoms.

I experienced a night terror one time. As for the rest of the paranormal stuff I just keep an open mind.

The Bringer wrote:
When I was younger I had something called night-terrors which is like a night-mare, but far worse. You are awake, but your view of reality is incredibly twisted and you are scared to death of everything. This happened to me when I was 5-10 years old. I genuinely believe that it was caused by demons tormenting me. It has happened to me and another person I know and it has ended (for both of us) when we prayed about it continually.

Happened to me twice. Once when I was 18, the other time 3 weeks ago. It's hard to snap out of, but it's an imbalance of chemicals, not a possession.

The Bringer wrote:So you believe it was a chemical imbalance... I believe it was the supernatural.

whatevs... they are both a kind of faith

No, you see the difference is, one is actually provable.

dæl wrote:

The Bringer wrote:So you believe it was a chemical imbalance... I believe it was the supernatural.

whatevs... they are both a kind of faith

No, you see the difference is, one is actually provable.

It is possible to "prove", given a few assumptions.

Anyways, why can it not be both? As Christians believe, God controls science... he created it and if he so chooses he can bend it or do away with it. Why not use chemical imbalances to achieve his purpose? Why can't demons with there "magic" bend human binds using scientific processes?

Your "proof" assumes that what you believe to be science is the absolute truth, and there is nothing more to understand.

Am I correct?

My idea of proof is that you can make rational inferences based on the evidence, that and not a shred more. Supernatural occurrences have generally had rational explanations, and those that don't aren't daemonic, they are just beyond our current understanding.

To answer you're point that they may be conventionally explained but also have the hand of some other force behind them, that may well be the case but it's just as likely to be a leprechaun as a daemon.

I'm open minded to the idea there may be multi dimensional being who would appear god-like to us, but I very much doubt they are either benevolent or malevolent.

Again..from the iPhone...
Deal...you can't prove scientifically aliens exist you can't prove scientifically demons exist. Either position is faith based. Both have probabilities and assumptions.
GG

generalgrog wrote:Again..from the iPhone...
Deal...you can't prove scientifically aliens exist you can't prove scientifically demons exist. Either position is faith based. Both have probabilities and assumptions.
GG

And the probability that we are the only sentient life to have ever existed in the universe is pretty small.
The probability that there are metaphysical beings that there isn't a single piece of evidence for in the history of humanity, that are intervening in our lives, a hell of a lot smaller.

Do you believe in fairies and elves and that Batman is roaming around New York? No? Well that's a faith based position too.

dæl wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Again..from the iPhone...
Deal...you can't prove scientifically aliens exist you can't prove scientifically demons exist. Either position is faith based. Both have probabilities and assumptions.
GG

And the probability that we are the only sentient life to have ever existed in the universe is pretty small.

but is still unproven, therefore it is a matter of faith in it's existence or lack thereof

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

dæl wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Again..from the iPhone...
Deal...you can't prove scientifically aliens exist you can't prove scientifically demons exist. Either position is faith based. Both have probabilities and assumptions.
GG

And the probability that we are the only sentient life to have ever existed in the universe is pretty small.

but is still unproven, therefore it is a matter of faith in it's existence or lack thereof

Yes, and the existence of fairies and elves have not been absolutely unproven, so again, that is also a "matter of faith." When you consider that it is widely believed that amino acids arrived here on an asteroid and started life on this planet, it becomes incredibly likely that somewhere in the hundred billion galaxies that each contain a hundred billion stars there also exists, either now or previously, life on other planets.

dæl wrote:
The probability that there are metaphysical beings that there isn't a single piece of evidence for in the history of humanity, that are intervening in our lives, a hell of a lot smaller.

Well... the thing is Jesus was a man to walk the earth... what happened in his life is up for debate.

dæl wrote:
Do you believe in fairies and elves and that Batman is roaming around New York? No? Well that's a faith based position too.

no... because there actually isn't a shred of evidence for those that I know of...

Anyways, by your reasoning of "chances" and "probability"....... what is the chance life was created randomly?

I'd just like to end there. True odds can never be calculated and numbers won't change anybodies mind.

dæl wrote:
......When you consider that it is widely believed that amino acids arrived here on an asteroid and started life on this planet, it becomes incredibly likely that somewhere in the hundred billion galaxies that each contain a hundred billion stars there also exists, either now or previously, life on other planets.

Interesting...when someone says widely believed they are speaking from a stance of faith. It's also widely believed that a creator created the earth. See how faith works?
GG

The Bringer wrote:

dæl wrote:
The probability that there are metaphysical beings that there isn't a single piece of evidence for in the history of humanity, that are intervening in our lives, a hell of a lot smaller.

Well... the thing is Jesus was a man to walk the earth... what happened in his life is up for debate.

Most of what happened in his life is well documented, the debate arises from whether he was a metaphysical being or just a all round good bloke who said things would be a lot better if we were all nice to one another, and whether his miracles were performed as we are told they were.

The Bringer wrote:

dæl wrote:
Do you believe in fairies and elves and that Batman is roaming around New York? No? Well that's a faith based position too.

no... because there actually isn't a shred of evidence for those that I know of...

Anyways, by your reasoning of "chances" and "probability"....... what is the chance life was created randomly?

Apparently you missed the hundred billion galaxies each with a hundred billion stars bit. So yeah, the odds are pretty high when you think about it.


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generalgrog wrote:

dæl wrote:
......When you consider that it is widely believed that amino acids arrived here on an asteroid and started life on this planet, it becomes incredibly likely that somewhere in the hundred billion galaxies that each contain a hundred billion stars there also exists, either now or previously, life on other planets.

Interesting...when someone says widely believed they are speaking from a stance of faith. It's also widely believed that a creator created the earth. See how faith works?
GG

Well one is a supposition made to explain how we came to be here based on evidence and deductive reasoning, the other is a supposition made to explain how we came to be here based on what was proposed by people quite some time ago, the same people who made propositions at the time which we now find backward and choose to ignore (Or do you still believe the Pre-Copernican model of the universe?). Do you see the inherent difference there.

Apparently you missed the hundred billion galaxies each with a hundred billion stars bit. So yeah, the odds are pretty high when you think about it.

But the vast majority of stars don't have planets,
the majority of planets don't have an atmosphere or are gas giants
Very few stars are similar in size to our sun, the majority being much larger


All these and lots of other factors massively reduce the odds

Which are all statistically irrelevant once you take in account the possibility that the E.T. in question might very well be quite more advanced then us, and intentionally searching for other life forms.

And we're also looking. We're currently looking 10 billion more (or quicker depending on how you see it) then in 1960.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/seth_shostak_et_is_probably_out_there_get_ready.html


And the odds of life developing on a planet are always getting revised for the greater. Experts are now saying between 1/100 and 1/1000 over the planets in the appropriate solar range. Over a total of one trillion planet in this galaxy alone...

kronk wrote:Carl Sagan used to use that term all of the time. Also, it's in a Crosby, Stills, and Nash song! I hear it quite a bit on the science/space/nature programs on the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Science Channel.

It's probably an American/United Kingdom phrase you hadn't been exposed to.

Yeah, I read Sagan, but always in the Portuguese translation and never in the original English so it really is just a case of never having been exposed to the term before.




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timetowaste85 wrote:

Sure-I sent him a text asking for it. It's 2am here though and he has work at 6-I wouldn't expect an answer til his first break. Is that an honest 'nice' or a snide 'nice'? Hard to tell online. Honest gets a pleasant 'sure'. Snide gets narrowed eyes.

This time its an honest "nice".

I don't really believe in any supernatural occurrences, but I still find them really interesting and nothing really beats a good "horror" story.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Apparently you missed the hundred billion galaxies each with a hundred billion stars bit. So yeah, the odds are pretty high when you think about it.

But the vast majority of stars don't have planets,
the majority of planets don't have an atmosphere or are gas giants
Very few stars are similar in size to our sun, the majority being much larger


All these and lots of other factors massively reduce the odds

And actually, most stars have at least one planet.

KingCracker wrote:More like keys in a pocket. You have the keys in your hand, and they are fine. You place them in a pocket and magically they are a knotted feth ball that you cannot imagine how to untangle METAL KEYS

^this by 100000000000.


I have four keys and a metal wolf head on my keyring. They all seem to find a way to get stuck in the key ring loop thingy.

At the same time.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

KingCracker wrote:More like keys in a pocket. You have the keys in your hand, and they are fine. You place them in a pocket and magically they are a knotted feth ball that you cannot imagine how to untangle METAL KEYS

^this by 100000000000.


I have four keys and a metal wolf head on my keyring. They all seem to find a way to get stuck in the key ring loop thingy.

At the same time.

That is clearly the work of Satan, your key ring is possessed and you need to contact the nearest priest ASAP so that an exorcism is performed!

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

KingCracker wrote:More like keys in a pocket. You have the keys in your hand, and they are fine. You place them in a pocket and magically they are a knotted feth ball that you cannot imagine how to untangle METAL KEYS

^this by 100000000000.


I have four keys and a metal wolf head on my keyring. They all seem to find a way to get stuck in the key ring loop thingy.

At the same time.

I know man, I know, how do magnets work? feth that noise, how do keys do THAT?!?! Thats what I want to know. We have 7 keys on 1 ring. Mostly house keys, so they are big fat ol keys that to me, cant fit in the key ring. But feth me sideways, they will get knotted up and I have to repeatedly throw them at the pavement to get them unstuck.

PhantomViper wrote:

kronk wrote:Carl Sagan used to use that term all of the time. Also, it's in a Crosby, Stills, and Nash song! I hear it quite a bit on the science/space/nature programs on the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Science Channel.

It's probably an American/United Kingdom phrase you hadn't been exposed to.

Yeah, I read Sagan, but always in the Portuguese translation and never in the original English so it really is just a case of never having been exposed to the term before.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

timetowaste85 wrote:

Sure-I sent him a text asking for it. It's 2am here though and he has work at 6-I wouldn't expect an answer til his first break. Is that an honest 'nice' or a snide 'nice'? Hard to tell online. Honest gets a pleasant 'sure'. Snide gets narrowed eyes.

This time its an honest "nice".

I don't really believe in any supernatural occurrences, but I still find them really interesting and nothing really beats a good "horror" story.

Still waiting on a response from him. I'm doing this from my phone though, as my regular Internet cut out-PM me your email or cell number and I'll mail the photo to you. Can't really attach it to Dakka by phone when it finally comes in.

Yes, Bringer, I tend to lump night terrors and old hag into the same unexplained sleep disturbance category. While they are two seperate things they seem to share several symptoms.
Try eating some chocolate about 30 minutes before bedtime for more crazy dream fun. Warning, may cause nightmares.

snurl wrote:Yes, Bringer, I tend to lump night terrors and old hag into the same unexplained sleep disturbance category. While they are two seperate things they seem to share several symptoms.
Try eating some chocolate about 30 minutes before bedtime for more crazy dream fun. Warning, may cause nightmares.

Almost everybody in my family has really weird dreams if we eat pizza before going to bed

I haven't had night-mares for over ten years... I will try this chocolate

The Bringer wrote:

generalgrog wrote:
Trying to post from iPhone..so sorry for short response but according to Christian belief a fallen angel is by default a demon. Satan fell to earth with 1/3 of the angels(don't remember exact text right now). So Satan and 1/3 of the angels being all fallen angels are considered demons.
GG

Yes, demons are simply fallen angels according to the Bible.

I believe in Demons/Angels/God.

I myself believe that Demons do torment people in various ways. I have heard first-hand accounts of odd events happening to someone they attribute to ghosts, but I would attribute to demons.

When I was younger I had something called night-terrors which is like a night-mare, but far worse. You are awake, but your view of reality is incredibly twisted and you are scared to death of everything. This happened to me when I was 5-10 years old. I genuinely believe that it was caused by demons tormenting me. It has happened to me and another person I know and it has ended (for both of us) when we prayed about it continually.

Sure your "night terrors" weren't just something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis



Also on the whole supernatural subject, I know a guy who used to do a lot of cave diving around Mexico, and he said wierd stuff would happen on occasion, like he would think he saw shadows in dark corners and stuff. I'd attribute it to the fact that cenotes are very strange places, and they cause your imagination to run a bit wild (I've just been snorkeling in one, and it is pretty amazing), but the Mayans did drop quite a few corpses down there.

-Have yet to see any evidence that ghosts & daemons do exist
-There is neither evidence to prove or disprove God, but personally I'm a lite atheist or strong agnostic
-Aliens statistically exist somewhere in the universe, but we have never had any contact with them and vice versa.

Harriticus wrote:-Have yet to see any evidence that ghosts & daemons don't exist

It is not possible to prove something doesn't exist until you have mapped the entire cosmos, I have never seen proof that Santa doesn't exist.

I meant do exist. Typo...

Harriticus wrote:I meant do exist. Typo...

No worries.

EDIT: Will you look at that, I've travelled from Poland to England in under 10 minutes.

There has not been one piece of well documented, peer reviewed, flawless evidence for any supernatural occurence in the history of mankind, in all of science. Not one. Personal accounts aren't valid. "I saw a ghost today" there, that doesn't prove anything whatsoever. Anything merely said from eye-witness accounts is simply not good enough. Many people don't fully understand the way the brain works (neither do I for that), it can make you think you've seen things which in reality were not there. The brain is fantastic at creating sense out of nonsense. If a pattern on a wall, in the clouds or a wisp of smoke looks like a face for example, your brain recognises it, and tells you "hey look at that face". Your rational thoughts say that it shouldn't be there, you get spooked. Simple as that.

As scientists we can only accept repeatable proven results that something exists, take the example of the LHC scientist's claims that the speed of light was broken, peer reviewed, didn't get the same result, therefore not accepted.

If someone comes along and is able to prove on the spot, at will that ghosts for example exist, and it can be repeated by anyone, then fine. That has never happened for any supernatural or religous claim. Until it does it is perfectly reasonable to completely dismiss them.

As far as aliens are concerned, it is extremely arrogant to think that in the scale of the known universe, our insignificant planet is the only place where (seamingly) intelligent life has formed. Even if the odds are one in 10 billion, the fact that there are untold billions of galaxies, each with perhaps trillions of stars in them, and each of these stars having the potential for at least one planet orbiting them in many cases, and that the universe has been around for at least 13 billion years, that still would mean that life has formed billions of times in the universe at a bare minimum over its history, whether it evolved into an intelligent form each time or not. The Earth is completely insignificant in the (admittedly very) grand scale of things (Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot is a wonderful way of viewing this). The time present in a cosmological or even geological sense are simply too vast for us to comprehend. The distances in space are similarly vast, therefore putting it very much against the odds that we will ever make contact.

Time for a cup of tea...

dæl wrote:

Harriticus wrote:I meant do exist. Typo...

No worries.

EDIT: Will you look at that, I've travelled from Poland to England in under 10 minutes.

Please share with us how you travel so fast

KingCracker wrote:

dæl wrote:

Harriticus wrote:I meant do exist. Typo...

No worries.

EDIT: Will you look at that, I've travelled from Poland to England in under 10 minutes.

Please share with us how you travel so fast

It's either my UFO, or the fact that every time I turn Opera Turbo on Dakka thinks I'm in Poland.

Edit: see ^

You did it again! Your a fething wizard!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Once DAKKA thought I was from Korea some how. That was kindda cool

You did it again! Your a fething wizard!

I rolled on the psyker table and got Pan-European Relocation, would have preferred to be firing Lightning out my hands but there you go.


Did Dakka think you were in North Korea or South Korea? Are they even allowed forums in the North? If so, does Dakka have the flag in their database?

Redbristles, with all due respect, paranormal events are not something you can turn on or off with the flick of a switch.
That being said, I bet I know of a place where you may change your mind should you attempt to stay the night there.

GalacticDefender wrote:
Sure your "night terrors" weren't just something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

night terrors and sleep paralysis, or old hag syndrome, are two completely different things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

redbristles wrote:
If someone comes along and is able to prove on the spot, at will that ghosts for example exist, and it can be repeated by anyone, then fine. That has never happened for any supernatural or religous claim. Until it does it is perfectly reasonable to completely dismiss them.

Time for a cup of tea...

You're funny.

Prove that gravity is real.
Prove that your senses show you what is really happening.
Prove that your mind isn't just making stuff up and making you believe it.

Nothing can be proved if you really want to pull that card out bro.

Yo, if there wasn't a shred of evidence for any religion, there would be far fewer Christians in this world. All my friends, all my family, all my neighbors didn't decide to start believing in the supernatural because their parents did. They had reasons based on logic, sound thinking, and history. You choose to only trust what you can see and touch and understand and "prove." That's fine by me.

The Bringer wrote:

redbristles wrote:
If someone comes along and is able to prove on the spot, at will that ghosts for example exist, and it can be repeated by anyone, then fine. That has never happened for any supernatural or religous claim. Until it does it is perfectly reasonable to completely dismiss them.

Time for a cup of tea...

You're funny.

Prove that gravity is real.
Prove that your senses show you what is really happening.
Prove that your mind isn't just making stuff up and making you believe it.

Nothing can be proved if you really want to pull that card out bro.

Yo, if there wasn't a shred of evidence for any religion, there would be far fewer Christians in this world. All my friends, all my family, all my neighbors didn't decide to start believing in the supernatural because their parents did. They had reasons based on logic, sound thinking, and history. You choose to only trust what you can see and touch and understand and "prove." That's fine by me.

Prove that gravity is real? Well take an apple...
Your senses don't show the full extent of what is happening.

There is no evidence for supernatural happenings or religion, there never was. If you think that such things are based on logic and sound thinking please provide an example. I could do with a laugh.

dæl wrote:
Prove that gravity is real? Well take an apple...
Your senses don't show the full extent of what is happening.

Yes, but how can you prove that everything you are perceiving through your senses isn't some random series of events programmed into your dna.

dæl wrote:
There is no evidence for supernatural happenings or religion, there never was. If you think that such things are based on logic and sound thinking please provide an example. I could do with a laugh.

If you really are curious then pm me. Sorry, you won't get a laugh.

dæl wrote:

The Bringer wrote:

redbristles wrote:
If someone comes along and is able to prove on the spot, at will that ghosts for example exist, and it can be repeated by anyone, then fine. That has never happened for any supernatural or religous claim. Until it does it is perfectly reasonable to completely dismiss them.

Time for a cup of tea...

You're funny.

Prove that gravity is real.
Prove that your senses show you what is really happening.
Prove that your mind isn't just making stuff up and making you believe it.

Nothing can be proved if you really want to pull that card out bro.

Yo, if there wasn't a shred of evidence for any religion, there would be far fewer Christians in this world. All my friends, all my family, all my neighbors didn't decide to start believing in the supernatural because their parents did. They had reasons based on logic, sound thinking, and history. You choose to only trust what you can see and touch and understand and "prove." That's fine by me.

Prove that gravity is real? Well take an apple...
Your senses don't show the full extent of what is happening.

There is no evidence for supernatural happenings or religion, there never was. If you think that such things are based on logic and sound thinking please provide an example. I could do with a laugh.

Exactly. No evidence. Anywhere. Ever.

If anyone on here would like to provide some that stands up to scrutinism then by all means do.

We're not talking about ridiculous philosophical ramblings like "is reality a simulation? Prove it's not" and all that business.

The Bringer wrote:

dæl wrote:
Prove that gravity is real? Well take an apple...
Your senses don't show the full extent of what is happening.

Yes, but how can you prove that everything you are perceiving through your senses isn't some random series of events programmed into your dna.

dæl wrote:
There is no evidence for supernatural happenings or religion, there never was. If you think that such things are based on logic and sound thinking please provide an example. I could do with a laugh.

If you really are curious then pm me. Sorry, you won't get a laugh.

Can you please post your story in the thread so others can see it? Instead of via PM?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

snurl wrote:Redbristles, with all due respect, paranormal events are not something you can turn on or off with the flick of a switch.
That being said, I bet I know of a place where you may change your mind should you attempt to stay the night there.

That's very convenient, leaving us with just eye witness accounts. I've deliberately stayed in several "haunted" places just to try and see if anything happened. Nothing did that couldn't be explained wither as a natural event or a trick of the eyes/mind.

All complete nonsense.

I'm curious.. If you believe in God and heaven and walking on water, are you more or less likely to believe in spiritual gak as well?

I genuinely can't find the answer! If you do believe in things that seem magical and unexplained then you must be more likely right?

But then you see clerics and such kicking off about the belief in witches and harry Potter and such..

So feth knows!

The Bringer wrote:
Prove that gravity is real.
Prove that your senses show you what is really happening.
Prove that your mind isn't just making stuff up and making you believe it.

Nothing can be proved if you really want to pull that card out bro.

Yo, if there wasn't a shred of evidence for any religion, there would be far fewer Christians in this world. All my friends, all my family, all my neighbors didn't decide to start believing in the supernatural because their parents did. They had reasons based on logic, sound thinking, and history. You choose to only trust what you can see and touch and understand and "prove." That's fine by me.

AHAHAHAH You are a funny guy!

And I have news flash for you, the reason you, your friends, your familly and all your neighbours believe in the "supernatural" is exactly because their parents did. Logic and sound thinking didn't have anything to do with it!

Here we go......


GG

Honestly I'm surprised it took four pages and didn't start back on page two.

Inevitable really, if you count religion as supernatural too

generalgrog wrote:Here we go......


GG

Ah nice one GG is here..

That means I can ask one!

Do you believe in magic and ghosts GG?

And what do you mean by "here we go" its a serious question, are you less or more likely to believe in spirits than someone who is agnostic?

And furthermore, why the hell shouldn't people ask? I'm sick of you lot playing the hurt feelings card and refusing to answer questions. As soon as anyone asks you anything its all "Oooh look.. "bashing" Religion"

Give me a break. One rule for all, fairs fair and all that.

I'm sure you are more than happy to rip the piss out of Scientology, why are they allowed to be questioned and Christians are immune to questions?

I find it even funnier when Christians rip the piss out of Mormons.

"Oh yeah, virgin births and living inside a whale.... everyone knows that can happen... but magic underpants!? Mormons are crazy!"

The Bringer wrote:
You're funny.

Prove that gravity is real.
Prove that your senses show you what is really happening.
Prove that your mind isn't just making stuff up and making you believe it.

Nothing can be proved if you really want to pull that card out bro.

Yo, if there wasn't a shred of evidence for any religion, there would be far fewer Christians in this world. All my friends, all my family, all my neighbors didn't decide to start believing in the supernatural because their parents did. They had reasons based on logic, sound thinking, and history. You choose to only trust what you can see and touch and understand and "prove." That's fine by me.

This image seems entirely relevant to your argument...
Incidentally that's a great webcomic, not updated a lot but really great.

I used to not believe in ghosts and stuff like that, but I've seen a couple of things that I really, genuinely cannot explain, and it does make me wonder.

Also, how is the sience vs religion argument valid. Take it somewhere else.

PhantomViper wrote:
AHAHAHAH You are a funny guy!

thank you, I try

PhantomViper wrote:
And I have news flash for you, the reason you, your friends, your familly and all your neighbours believe in the "supernatural" is exactly because their parents did. Logic and sound thinking didn't have anything to do with it!

Which totally explains why I know many, many people who have zero religious background and are converted to Christianity
As I said. I am not debating anything in a thread. If you really are curious send me a pm.

The Bringer wrote:
Which totally explains why I know many, many people who have zero religious background and are converted to Christianity

Christianity has been declining steadily amongst the population of developed western nations. Please define what constitutes "many, many people"?

Wow, that google sure does some wonders
http://www.pewforum.org/Christian/Global-Christianity-exec.aspx

Looks like today, there are about 2 BILLION Christians in the world currently. Thats JUST Christians, not Muslims or other 1 god type religions.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/01/27/2-2-billion-worlds-muslim-population-doubles/
That says theres 2.2 billion Muslims in the world.

Its estimated that today there is roughly 7 billion people in the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

So more than HALF the world population are either Christian or Muslim. So whats your point again?

PhantomViper wrote:
Christianity has been declining steadily amongst the population of developed western nations. Please define what constitutes "many, many people"?

From people I know really well, about 4 (and I don't know that many people)
Who I am acquainted with, around 20

Also note that while it has declined in Europe, it has steadily risen in America

To a certain degree I guess?

Chongara wrote:I sure do. In fact I've actually been able to develop several unique means for studying them. I try to keep it on the down low of course, some folks aren't happy with that stuff getting around. I've got a couple of my old modified cameras lying around we call them "Spook Cams" just to be cute about it I guess. I'd be willing to sell you one or two of them if you like, as I've got newer ones now and those are just lying around. Ghosts are more common than you'd think really, just point and shoot in any random direction and you should get a good one after couple of nights.

If you're interested send me a PM, we should be able to work out a price. It's usually a few hundered bucks, but these ones are a tiny bit beat up.

What is that smell?

???

PhantomViper wrote:

The Bringer wrote:
Which totally explains why I know many, many people who have zero religious background and are converted to Christianity

Christianity has been declining steadily amongst the population of developed western nations. Please define what constitutes "many, many people"?

The massive amounts of Chinese and other eastern Asians that have converted??

ITs ok PhantomViper has been here a long time, with VERY little post count. Now since hes been troll fething our forums lately, Im assuming its because he finally was banned from some other forum site he had been spending his time at. I think Im just going to start ignoring this one as well.

KingCracker wrote:Wow, that google sure does some wonders
http://www.pewforum.org/Christian/Global-Christianity-exec.aspx

Looks like today, there are about 2 BILLION Christians in the world currently. Thats JUST Christians, not Muslims or other 1 god type religions.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/01/27/2-2-billion-worlds-muslim-population-doubles/
That says theres 2.2 billion Muslims in the world.

Its estimated that today there is roughly 7 billion people in the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

So more than HALF the world population are either Christian or Muslim. So whats your point again?

First I advise to go out and learn to read, I said that Christianity was in decline (meaning that there are less Christians now than there were a few years ago) = less people converting.

And look, google even supports my point of view, imagine that:

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/living/us.religion.less.christian_1_american-religious-identification-survey-christian-nation-evangelical?_s=PM:LIVING

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

Despite its status as the most widespread and influential religion in the US, Christianity has undergone a continuous relative decline in demographics. While the absolute number of Christians rose from 1990 to 2008 as the overall population increased, the actual percentage of Christians dropped from 86.2% to 76.0%.

Considering that the poster I was replying to was saying that he had personally witness "many, many" people converting to Christianity, when all the studies indicate the exact opposite, I was merely curious about it.

But hey, continue with the personal attacks, its very refreshing witnessing first hand all the kindness and open heartedness that you pious and religious people display in every day, Jesus would be really proud of you!

Friendly reminder to stay courteous and on-topic here, folks. Thanks!

AND if you read my first link, it shows the RISE in Christianity in America. Sooooooooooooo


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Considering that the poster I was replying to was saying that he had personally witness "many, many" people converting to Christianity, when all the studies indicate the exact opposite, I was merely curious about it.

So obviously personal experience is just thrown out then

KingCracker wrote:AND if you read my first link, it shows the RISE in Christianity in America. Sooooooooooooo

Actually, read you own link, it doesn't show any such thing. Taken from your link:

Although Christians make up a smaller portion of the 2010 population in the Americas (86%) than they did in 1910 (96%), the Americas account for a higher share of the world’s Christians (37%, up from 27% in 1910).

It shows the rise in population, the actual percentage of the population that is Christian has decreased.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingCracker wrote:

Considering that the poster I was replying to was saying that he had personally witness "many, many" people converting to Christianity, when all the studies indicate the exact opposite, I was merely curious about it.

So obviously personal experience is just thrown out then

Not thrown out, but it can be countered by other peoples personal experience, say mine: I was born in a Christian family, baptised and first communion and everything, as soon as I was old enough to decide for my own I stopped doing the whole religion thing. And like my case I have first hand experience of many, many others.

So whose anecdotal evidence is more relevant now?

I'd love to have a look at one of these magical cameras that can photograph ghosts, being a photographer and all....

I'm really interested in some of the crazy physics ideas about Multi-verse and natural forces bleeding over from one universe to the other. For example, Gravity is a weak force in our Universe, because the true force of Gravity is being bled off into someplace else? Then, there is the whole mystery of Dark matter and why it repels and over comes the natural force of Gravity, yet is a theoretically infinite supply. Where is that coming from?

That sends my imagination reeling about how things from the multi-verse can cross the barriers of physical time-space and how that could interact with supernatural forces.

I'm barely read on any of these subjects, but they are fascinating.

Grakmar wrote:I believe that things like ghosts and demons are real... in the sense that they exist in your neural pathways.

Demons do exist, they are called ex-girlfriends.

I do believe in Ghosts to a certain degree. That they are interesting to talk about but in reality they probably don't exist.

Easy E wrote:I'm really interested in some of the crazy physics ideas about Multi-verse and natural forces bleeding over from one universe to the other. For example, Gravity is a weak force in our Universe, because the true force of Gravity is being bled off into someplace else? Then, there is the whole mystery of Dark matter and why it repels and over comes the natural force of Gravity, yet is a theoretically infinite supply. Where is that coming from?

I've read about that kind of crap, and it is just non-sense. It is scientists trying to describe phenomena by stabbing into the dark, and then drawing conclusions from these hypothetical truths.

I would be really interested in seeing proof of the supernatural. But alas I do not think that I will ever see it, since the possibility of anything supernatural existing is fairly small.

Do ghosts exists? ask scooby doo!

but in all reality the chances of them existing are very slim.


This flow chart raises some great questions.

DeathReaper wrote:


This flow chart raises some great questions.

The flow chart messes up at the part where God is not loving if he doesn't prevent evil. That only works if you take a myopic view of a cynic. Why can't God allow evil as part of his Grande plan? Some of the best parts of humanity come about out of response to evil, whether that be natural evil(earthquakes..etc) or human evil(murder). Not to mention, that according to Christian belief the earth is cursed. People have studied the "problem of evil" for centuries. It's not a knew concept.

GG

generalgrog wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:


This flow chart raises some great questions.

The flow chart messes up at the part where God is not loving if he doesn't prevent evil. That only works if you take a myopic view of a cynic. Why can't God allow evil as part of his Grande plan? Some of the best parts of humanity come about out of response to evil, whether that be natural evil(earthquakes..etc) or human evil(murder). Not to mention, that according to Christian belief the earth is cursed. People have studied the "problem of evil" for centuries. It's not a knew concept.

GG

That entirely defeats the 'omnipotence' bit. ''Some of the best part of humanity'' shouldn't require murder, rape and torture to happen to be manifested.

Actually, you could say that being nice for the sake of being nice is a much better part of humanity than reacting to an horrible event. Everyone should be quite motivated by torture, murder and rape, after all...

People have studied the problem of evil for centuries, always coming back to the same innane : God works in mysterious ways... Those same people shouldn't be surprised once the educated populations stop listening to them...

The simple fact is that a child doesn't understand why a parent would allow a stranger to stab them with a sharp pointy object which hurts a lot. The child doesn't understand why mommy or daddy allows this pain to happen and could possibly interpret this action as being mean. But what the child fails to understand is that the stranger is a Doctor injecting them with medicine which in fact is designed to help them in the long run.

Not saying that this is Gods purpose in every respect but it does point to the issue of not understanding everything God... does all the time. If we could understand everything that God does then maybe we would become gods ourselves?

GG

Crap, I thought this was about Aliens...


Anyways I don't believe in the ghost stuff on TV. Total BS.

I do believe in ghosts, but I think they may be some sort of sub space entity or creature that is seen in-between different dimensions.

The Bringer wrote:

Easy E wrote:I'm really interested in some of the crazy physics ideas about Multi-verse and natural forces bleeding over from one universe to the other. For example, Gravity is a weak force in our Universe, because the true force of Gravity is being bled off into someplace else? Then, there is the whole mystery of Dark matter and why it repels and over comes the natural force of Gravity, yet is a theoretically infinite supply. Where is that coming from?

I've read about that kind of crap, and it is just non-sense. It is scientists trying to describe phenomena by stabbing into the dark, and then drawing conclusions from these hypothetical truths.

So ghosts and ghouls and daemons exist, but the thing that makes up 3 quarters of our galaxy (dark matter) or the thing that causes the acceleration of the expansion of our universe (dark energy) are crap and nonsense. Please tell me more about how much more you know of the physical world than physicists.

dæl wrote:

The Bringer wrote:

Easy E wrote:I'm really interested in some of the crazy physics ideas about Multi-verse and natural forces bleeding over from one universe to the other. For example, Gravity is a weak force in our Universe, because the true force of Gravity is being bled off into someplace else? Then, there is the whole mystery of Dark matter and why it repels and over comes the natural force of Gravity, yet is a theoretically infinite supply. Where is that coming from?

I've read about that kind of crap, and it is just non-sense. It is scientists trying to describe phenomena by stabbing into the dark, and then drawing conclusions from these hypothetical truths.

So ghosts and ghouls and daemons exist, but the thing that makes up 3 quarters of our galaxy (dark matter) or the thing that causes the acceleration of the expansion of our universe (dark energy) are crap and nonsense. Please tell me more about how much more you know of the physical world than physicists.

The whole dark matter and energy thing is still unproven and completely theoretical.

And isn't the expansion of the galaxies very gradually slowing down?

Nope, but it doesn't stop you from jumping from eerie sounds at night.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
The whole dark matter and energy thing is still unproven and completely theoretical.

But we can see the effects of their behaviour, so therefore they (or something that produces the same effects) exist.

And isn't the expansion of the galaxies very gradually slowing down?

I think it may be speeding up.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
The whole dark matter and energy thing is still unproven and completely theoretical.

While the existence of god, ghosts and demons is a proven fact...

Lord Scythican wrote:Crap, I thought this was about Aliens...


Anyways I don't believe in the ghost stuff on TV. Total BS.

I do believe in ghosts, but I think they may be some sort of sub space entity or creature that is seen in-between different dimensions.

Yea it was supposed to be about that stuff, but like always its either perverted into some political thing, or some religious thing

But I agree, the gak you see on TV is just for ratings, and thats it.

PhantomViper wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
The whole dark matter and energy thing is still unproven and completely theoretical.

While the existence of god, ghosts and demons is a proven fact...

once again failing to understand the whole point of faith,

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
The whole dark matter and energy thing is still unproven and completely theoretical.

While the existence of god, ghosts and demons is a proven fact...

once again failing to understand the whole point of faith,

Relax, it was just a joke based around the premise of someone believing in something out of faith while dismissing another one as unproven.

Granted is wasn't a very good joke, but that type of dichotomy makes me chuckle a little bit.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

dæl wrote:

The Bringer wrote:

Easy E wrote:I'm really interested in some of the crazy physics ideas about Multi-verse and natural forces bleeding over from one universe to the other. For example, Gravity is a weak force in our Universe, because the true force of Gravity is being bled off into someplace else? Then, there is the whole mystery of Dark matter and why it repels and over comes the natural force of Gravity, yet is a theoretically infinite supply. Where is that coming from?

I've read about that kind of crap, and it is just non-sense. It is scientists trying to describe phenomena by stabbing into the dark, and then drawing conclusions from these hypothetical truths.

So ghosts and ghouls and daemons exist, but the thing that makes up 3 quarters of our galaxy (dark matter) or the thing that causes the acceleration of the expansion of our universe (dark energy) are crap and nonsense. Please tell me more about how much more you know of the physical world than physicists.

The whole dark matter and energy thing is still unproven and completely theoretical.

And isn't the expansion of the galaxies very gradually slowing down?

Nope the expansion of galaxies are speeding up. I have been watching Universe for awhile now. Unless that show is all lies, it pretty much tells you ever thing you need to know about dark matter etc. I don't have the words to explain how they know Dark Matter is there. I would have to rewatch the show or copy and paste something from the net.

They know it is there because you can see the effect of it. However, they don't really know what it is. If you pardon the hack job on the explaination....

There was the Big Bang, and everythign was shot out fromt he center. However, this expansion would naturally slow the farther it got fromt eh point of the Big Bang as the force of gravity exerts itself and begins to pull everything back togeether into planets, stars, glaxies, etc.

However, through measurements, we can see that this expansion is not slowing, but is instead expanding faster and faster. How is this possibel, sinc ethe major force we know of on the Universe is Gravity, which is an attractive force.

The only answer is, there must be a greater force that is repulsive. This force is speculated to be Dark Matter. The theory is that Dark Matter must be the "fuel" that caused the initial "Big Bang" as that was the ultimate Repulsive event in the "multi-verse'.

So now, there is Dark Matter spreading across our Universe as a result of the Big Bang, and it is further causing the Galaxies to continue to speed away from each other, faster and faster.

Sounds like both sides to this discussion have their minds made up already, and need no proof one way or another.

Mrs. Snurl's cousin used to work for an outfit called the psychic hotline, where she did tarot readings for callers over the phone. Her predictions were accurate to say the least. She stopped abruptly when she predicted a friends fatal automobile accident.

Easy E wrote:They know it is there because you can see the effect of it. However, they don't really know what it is. If you pardon the hack job on the explaination....

There was the Big Bang, and everythign was shot out fromt he center. However, this expansion would naturally slow the farther it got fromt eh point of the Big Bang as the force of gravity exerts itself and begins to pull everything back togeether into planets, stars, glaxies, etc.

However, through measurements, we can see that this expansion is not slowing, but is instead expanding faster and faster. How is this possibel, sinc ethe major force we know of on the Universe is Gravity, which is an attractive force.

The only answer is, there must be a greater force that is repulsive. This force is speculated to be Dark Matter. The theory is that Dark Matter must be the "fuel" that caused the initial "Big Bang" as that was the ultimate Repulsive event in the "multi-verse'.

So now, there is Dark Matter spreading across our Universe as a result of the Big Bang, and it is further causing the Galaxies to continue to speed away from each other, faster and faster.

That's the Dark Energy hypothesis to explain it, Dark Matter is the hypothesis that attempts to explain why the universe has far more mass than is expected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Matter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

See, I knew I would feth it up.

Thanks.

I believe in the Great Wiener Dog, and TBone his holy emissary. I believe in the WienerTime as foretold after Dachshundskrieg has cleansed the world of evil and cats (but I repeat myself).

Are his eyes always ablaze with hellfire and brimstone? Or is it only when he wants a ball?

KingCracker wrote:Are his eyes always ablaze with hellfire and brimstone? Or is it only when he wants a ball?

The answer to both is...YES. *

*He will put down the ball for bacon, but otherwise has been known to carry the ball around in his mouth or in his paws when sleeping ALL DAY.