ShadarLogoth wrote:

Then again, this wouldn't be the first time Ward has completely shat all over established fluff.

Yeah, because no other writer at GW ever alters the fluff of the universe their company created and "established the fluff" for originally. And it was Ward and Ward alone that wrote, playtested, and implemented every single 6th edition rule/piece of fluff, except anything that was good, in which case it was the Emperor and his infinite wisdom piercing the usurpers at GW...

I never said Ward was the only one. It's just that his motions tend to leave the biggest reverberations lately. It doesn't help that he's a horrendous writer, and that the changes he has made to the fluff have been almost universally in poor taste. But that's another topic.

Not exactly a good thing. It shows more on the side of GW's ineptitude towards marketing than anything else, really.

Yeah, because there is absolutely zero built up anticipation for a product that is still a week away from release.

Anticipation built up among the people who are already a guaranteed sell anyway. For those who aren't already heavily invested in 40k, or have moved on to greener pastures? Nothing. 6th edition, especially with the huge changes that it looks to bring, would be a great chance to bring in some new blood, but there's very little being done to motivate potential neophytes at all, despite GW's obvious intentions to market themselves to a newer and younger customer base while eschewing older, more dedicated customers.

Furthermore, the new changes that have been dug up so far have done more to inspire worry in myself (and my entire gaming group) over anything else. Yes, there's interest in the subject, but for all the wrong reasons.

Rumours and information are spreading through Dakkadakka like wildfire because Dakkadakka is a 40k forum.

Did GW kill your kitten as a child? So much built up aggression towards a company whose product you like so much you spend your free time on a forum dedicated to said product pissing on the company who makes said product. Love me some nerd rage.

I'd hardly call it nerd rage. I occasionally enjoy the games they put out, as well as the models they produce. However, there are some incredibly glaring flaws with GW's management and the current direction of its game design. I'd hardly call it 'aggression' when GW makes a point to go out of its way to alienate myself and other players as customers. Alienation is a much better word.

It's not nerd rage, but concern, because I do enjoy this hobby, and I don't want to see it go in a direction that would cause me to not want to take part in it anymore.

A few months ago I started overhauling my armies so they all had complementary if not uniform paint schemes... this was mainly because I was finally learning how to paint correctly and had a chunk of free time. Now I'm continuing the effort in earnest because I'd like my allied forces to look like they belong together on the battlefield.

Now if those allied rules prove to be as exciting and inclusive as they seem, I'll be fielding my favorite Tau units a lot more often.

Forget psyflenoughts, my grey knights will be bringing broadsides to the battlefield. Anrakyr may or may not get along with my demon princes, but Farsight will definitely appreciate some assistance from the avatar of khaine.

Fafnir wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Then again, this wouldn't be the first time Ward has completely shat all over established fluff.

Yeah, because no other writer at GW ever alters the fluff of the universe their company created and "established the fluff" for originally. And it was Ward and Ward alone that wrote, playtested, and implemented every single 6th edition rule/piece of fluff, except anything that was good, in which case it was the Emperor and his infinite wisdom piercing the usurpers at GW...

I never said Ward was the only one. It's just that his motions tend to leave the biggest reverberations lately. It doesn't help that he's a horrendous writer, and that the changes he has made to the fluff have been almost universally in poor taste. But that's another topic.

You realize that Ward has made literally nothing new aside from a few GK characters. Everything else was stuff that had existed before, he just brought it back and put it into the setting.

GKs had almost no fluff prior to the current codex. Even relativly obscure things like the Minotaur chapter had more backstory. of course lifting the veil would ruffle some feathers. He didn't do anything to existing fluff, and since the rewrite of the Necron codex some of his more outrageous stuff makes sense now.

The rules for zoom for the fliers that makes cruising speed 36 inches, time for orks to drop the bomb.

Grey Templar wrote:
GKs had almost no fluff prior to the current codex. Even relativly obscure things like the Minotaur chapter had more backstory. of course lifting the veil would ruffle some feathers. He didn't do anything to existing fluff, and since the rewrite of the Necron codex some of his more outrageous stuff makes sense now.

It's really an issue of subtly. What made them so cool, and what made the Daemonhunter codex's fluff so good, was that it left you wanting more. Granted, the old book could have been better with expansion in some places, but at least with the Grey Knights, they told you just enough to give you a hint that they were probably incredibly badass, but withheld enough to keep you wanting more, and above all, to retain the sense of mysteriousness that makes them so interesting in the first place.
In the case of the new Grey Knights codex, it's essentially the opposite way around. You're told everything that could possibly be known about the chapter (and in such a style that it could be confused with the writing of a 13-year-old), and are simply told that they're mysterious. It's kind of hard to retain such a feeling once they've spilled out more than you'd ever care to know in the first place. What made the Grey Knights so cool in the first place was the veil. Ward's writing of it was just an additional kick in the gut.

And we both know that quite a bit has changed. Grey Knights are no longer strictly puritan, they rarely, if ever used to mind wipe marines (and in fact, some chapters had long-standing affiliations with the Grey Knights, including the Black Templars actually respecting them despite being psykers), the entire chapter orginization, etc. Keep in mind, most of these changes aren't things that had to be changed to fit any specific design for the gameplay or the models either.
Granted, this could be seen as a change from GW as a whole, and not just the ideas of Mat Ward (although it's more likely a combination of the two, rather than just one), but that doesn't change the fact that established fluff that I personally enjoyed was altered into a state to which I now find unenjoyable. Of course I have every reason to be disappointed.

Grey Templar wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Then again, this wouldn't be the first time Ward has completely shat all over established fluff.

Yeah, because no other writer at GW ever alters the fluff of the universe their company created and "established the fluff" for originally. And it was Ward and Ward alone that wrote, playtested, and implemented every single 6th edition rule/piece of fluff, except anything that was good, in which case it was the Emperor and his infinite wisdom piercing the usurpers at GW...

I never said Ward was the only one. It's just that his motions tend to leave the biggest reverberations lately. It doesn't help that he's a horrendous writer, and that the changes he has made to the fluff have been almost universally in poor taste. But that's another topic.

You realize that Ward has made literally nothing new aside from a few GK characters. Everything else was stuff that had existed before, he just brought it back and put it into the setting.

GKs had almost no fluff prior to the current codex. Even relativly obscure things like the Minotaur chapter had more backstory. of course lifting the veil would ruffle some feathers. He didn't do anything to existing fluff, and since the rewrite of the Necron codex some of his more outrageous stuff makes sense now.

And rewriting the entire Necron race.

Actually the only thing i find unforgivable is his constant need to make termies more and more difficult to kill

2+ 3++ was annoying enough

Then it was 2+, 3++ with FNP...

Then Gk...

Now power weapons bounce right off them too...



On-Topic:

Vendettas just got even more unspeakable, if they are fliers (and they almost certainly are..)

My 30 Meganobz might be worth fielding again, with PW not just ignoring their armour.

curran12 wrote:Nothing.

Wanna know why?

Because I'm not getting wrapped up in hype until I see rulebooks in hands.

You sir, are absolutely no fun.

Why bother posting in this thread?

Absolutely you have right to be disappointed. But when you elevate your opinion as the established fact of an imaginary universe is where you lose me. I personally like the new fluff. I also really like the new Necron fluff. It's interesting and dynamic, rather then ominous and foreboding but short on actual details.

Wards writing style...I don't think it's particularly great, but he writes codexes, not novels. These are more akin to short shorts and news or encyclopedia articles then they are to in-depth narrative literature. I think you glossed over any perceived weaknesses of the codexes writers of your youth but don't allow the modern writers, particularly Ward, that same level of suspension of disbelief. Of course, that's just my opinion, but as a holder of a BA in English Literature I think the Ward is the worst writer ever meme has just a tinge of hyperbole mixed in.

It's not nerd rage, but concern, because I do enjoy this hobby, and I don't want to see it go in a direction that would cause me to not want to take part in it anymore.

...I'd enjoy it if your nerd rage made you not play it anymore so you'd leave...

I think the majority of people who are like "Oh man 6th is looking soooo bad man 6th is gonig to suck blah blah" are the people who constantly win with their defined army against their peers. The change of rules will most likely nuke their current established army, which is where the hate is coming in. Of course, they can do what a lot of 2nd edition players seem to be doing, and come back 3 editions later to 8th edition just before it gets changed to 9th (Its currently 5th, +3 editions is 8th).

Allies? More reason for people to buy more army products lol


75 bucks a book though? Yeah, im not purchasing it.

For what it's worth, I've only been playing 40k since 5th edition. No rose tinted glasses here. Of course, perhaps I'm just spoiled by the work of Kelly (for what it's worth, I still believe the the entire Space Wolves codex is meant to be a satire of the over-the-topness that inhabits the 40k universe, rather than a serious attempt at anything in particular, fluff wise).

Additionally, I don't have much to say about the Necrons, since I hated their old fluff because it sucked, and I hate their new fluff because they're right back at being Tomb Kings IN SPACE. I don't care to look into the deeper parts of it, considering that I know that I'll dislike it no matter what. I think the Necrons and I have come to terms with the fact that we'll never like one another.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I've been reading the rumours and I think over the last week they finally began getting accurate

How can you possibly know that the rumors are getting more accurate?

As for OMG-ness. the worst of them are the ones that debilitate hidden weapon upgrades. Being unable to hide weapons in a squad would fundamentally change the way some armies work. And by fundamentally, I mean make unplayable. Enjoy those berzerkers without the hidden fist, or those boyz without the hidden klaw or those guard blobs without the commissars or power weapons.

Thankfully, I can take the skeptic's view on all this.

Ailaros wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I've been reading the rumours and I think over the last week they finally began getting accurate

How can you possibly know that the rumors are getting more accurate?

As for OMG-ness. the worst of them are the ones that debilitate hidden weapon upgrades. Being unable to hide weapons in a squad would fundamentally change the way some armies work. And by fundamentally, I mean make unplayable. Enjoy those berzerkers without the hidden fist, or those boyz without the hidden klaw or those guard blobs without the commissars or power weapons.

Thankfully, I can take the skeptic's view on all this.

Don't forget flamers. Put them at the front, and they die before they can shoot. Put them in the back, and they can't shoot at all.

Yeah. What all of this rumormongering really shows us is that everybody is a worse game designer than people at GW.

Hearing people complain about how bad GW rules are, and then seeing how truly hideous some of the "rules" that fans come up with (and how many people BELIEVE those rules because they seem so "reasonable" to them) really makes me want to smack around said complainers.

Hmmm...rumors and then fact that made me go OMG.

Simple one here, getting ready to grab my gamers edition pre order then BAM! GW pre empts me with the Ultimate Edition that comes with everything (even possibly a hand job from Jervis and Ward) all for the small price of my first born! (Roughly $300)

The Brrodlord/psychic powers thing seems intriguing to say the least, but here in Australia, the price tag is $124; that's probably got me going OMG, if nothing else.

That my necrons shall grow in power. All my lords with 2+ are safe from power weapons, my warscythes still cut through any armor like butter, warriors and gauss immortals now are even MORE shooty, momlith cant be one-shotted and praetorians will become useful!

If grenades are indeed throwable, and they seem to be...

20 Grots (including handlers) or boyz piling out of a BW with a Stikkbomb Chucka ...

That's a lot of grenades

Throwing grenades?.....BEAST!!! Come on then you ugly{{ *static*$ yarhhhh....

Chaos Combi-Plasma Terminators. Ok, lets drop in about 20 inches away. Assuming they don't change the squad sizes it would look something like this: 20 Str 7 Ap2 shots at 24 inches. Want to assault me with your power weapon wielding squad oh yeah they are bouncing off my armor now I swing back with my chainfists through the squad and murder you. Now just imagine: in the next few months they are getting a new codex and it is highly likely that they are going to get to take cult terminators again.

Fafnir wrote:For what it's worth, I've only been playing 40k since 5th edition. No rose tinted glasses here. Of course, perhaps I'm just spoiled by the work of Kelly (for what it's worth, I still believe the the entire Space Wolves codex is meant to be a satire of the over-the-topness that inhabits the 40k universe, rather than a serious attempt at anything in particular, fluff wise).

Additionally, I don't have much to say about the Necrons, since I hated their old fluff because it sucked, and I hate their new fluff because they're right back at being Tomb Kings IN SPACE. I don't care to look into the deeper parts of it, considering that I know that I'll dislike it no matter what. I think the Necrons and I have come to terms with the fact that we'll never like one another.

What army do you play? Is it Space marines? (knights...IN SPACE!) Eldar....(Elves....IN SPACE!) the old squats? (dwarves....IN SPACE!) Orks? (you guessed it...Orcs...IN SPACE!)

Ok course, its your opinion, which you invalidated by stating

I don't care to look into the deeper parts of it, considering that I know that I'll dislike it no matter what.

which is literally the cookie cutter of everything and everyone else. Have you even looked at tomb kings at all? (prior to reading my message atleast, be honest)

How about just asking "how about them rumours eh?" you perhaps post the rumours you are talking about or at least link to them so I don't have to wade through the whole internet to find them?

What stands out for me most is the probable power of fliers, particularly Doom Scythes in conjunction with snap fire (as they're unaffected by BS1).

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

curran12 wrote:Nothing.

Wanna know why?

Because I'm not getting wrapped up in hype until I see rulebooks in hands.

This cannot be said enough!

I don't really understand this attitude. Just because they're rumours, doesn't mean they cannot be accurate. Particularly at this stage when the info is coming from the rulebook or white dwarf...

So long as you apply some sense/logic, you can learn a helluva lot from rumours IMHO.

Ascalam wrote:Actually the only thing i find unforgivable is his constant need to make termies more and more difficult to kill

2+ 3++ was annoying enough

Then it was 2+, 3++ with FNP...

Then Gk...

Now power weapons bounce right off them too...

The updated rumor is that power weapons will be AP2.

SilverMK2 wrote:How about just asking "how about them rumours eh?" you perhaps post the rumours you are talking about or at least link to them so I don't have to wade through the whole internet to find them?

Go to Bell of Lost Souls (www.belloflostsouls.net) for the latest rumor roundups.

If it is true that sniper rifles rolling 6's to hit get to allocate that wound, that gives Eldar rangers another cool tricksy elf cheese move, since ranger long rifles that roll a 6 to hit become AP1.

I'm hearing that power swords are AP3 but grant a 5++ "parry" save in close combat, while power axes are AP2 but don't grant that save.

Ailaros wrote:
As for OMG-ness. the worst of them are the ones that debilitate hidden weapon upgrades. Being unable to hide weapons in a squad would fundamentally change the way some armies work. And by fundamentally, I mean make unplayable. Enjoy those berzerkers without the hidden fist, or those boyz without the hidden klaw or those guard blobs without the commissars or power weapons.

You can still have hidden weapons and sargents just make sure there's plenty of meat shields in front of them. Foot guard look to be a lot stronger in the new edition, with snap fire, rapid fire changes (plasma guns just got MUCH better) and Aegis defence lines.

Fafnir wrote:
Don't forget flamers. Put them at the front, and they die before they can shoot. Put them in the back, and they can't shoot at all.

That's just stupid. Flamers are entirely useable, and with the D3 snap shots they got a whole lot cooler and more effective.
But I forgot, you probably know more about game design than the most successful tabletop wargame makers of all time

Ailaros wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I've been reading the rumours and I think over the last week they finally began getting accurate

How can you possibly know that the rumors are getting more accurate?

Just Dave wrote:I don't really understand this attitude. Just because they're rumours, doesn't mean they cannot be accurate. Particularly at this stage when the info is coming from the rulebook or white dwarf...

So long as you apply some sense/logic, you can learn a helluva lot from rumours IMHO.

Exactly, even a month ago we were basically going off of what so-and-so heard from his friend who is totally Matt Ward and getting some ridiculously over the top rules which, had they been true, would have made me stick with 5th ed.

Actually, Ailaros' comment about special weapons reminds me of another realization I had. Positioning is more important this edition, kind of like Fantasy. Since wound allocation is apparently closest to furthest, mobile armies able to get into the flanks or rear of a squad will be able to kill the targets that they would otherwise have tried to protect by keeping them there.

Basimpo wrote:


What army do you play? Is it Space marines? (knights...IN SPACE!) Eldar....(Elves....IN SPACE!) the old squats? (dwarves....IN SPACE!) Orks? (you guessed it...Orcs...IN SPACE!)

Inquisition, Gaurd, and Orkz.

But that said, up until recently, GW's been trying to make movements to separate their armies from the IN SPACE image. Even Necrons were originally just Tomb Kings IN SPACE until their 3rd edition codex which, bad as it was, attempted to make them something a little different.

The important thing to note is that most of GW's other armies, despite having roots in Fantasy, manage to develop their own distinct identities. Necrons, I feel, have not, and perhaps have even gone backward in such a movement, to a similar degree to that of Squats, which were removed from the game for that reason.

Ok course, its your opinion, which you invalidated by stating

I don't care to look into the deeper parts of it, considering that I know that I'll dislike it no matter what.

which is literally the cookie cutter of everything and everyone else. Have you even looked at tomb kings at all? (prior to reading my message atleast, be honest)

Nope. Not particularly interested in Tomb Kings or Necrons. I know some of the light fluff. I read the rumours of the rules and fluff for the new Necrons codex, and was not happy with it (despite disliking the old codex in the first place) (and from what I know about the tomb kings, it sounds awfully similar...). I feel there is no need to delve any deeper.

Well looking at the rules gleaned from the newest white dwarf the necrons will be laughing all the way home. Being able to move and shoot their full range with rapid fire weapons, glances taking hull points off vehicles and gauss still working like it used to. lets not forget the stand and shoot thing which might not seem like much but just adds more shooting to an already shooty army that needs to be assaulted to win effectively against unless you can out range them.

Orks look like they will get slaughtered between the new mobility of rapid firing other races, the weakened vehicles and then casualties being take off the front keeping them from the action even longer...

Deadlytoaster wrote:Well looking at the rules gleaned from the newest white dwarf the necrons will be laughing all the way home. Being able to move and shoot their full range with rapid fire weapons, glances taking hull points off vehicles and gauss still working like it used to. lets not forget the stand and shoot thing which might not seem like much but just adds more shooting to an already shooty army that needs to be assaulted to win effectively against unless you can out range them.

Ranged weapons in the necron codex with over 24" range:
Tremorstave
Eldritch lance
Harp of Dissonance
Stationary Doomsday Cannon
Heavy Gauss Cannon
Tachyon Arrow

What of that are you likely to see a decent amount of:
Tremorstave
Eldritch Lance

Outranging Necrons isn't as difficult as it sounds.

Exalted Pariah wrote:That my necrons shall grow in power. All my lords with 2+ are safe from power weapons, my warscythes still cut through any armor like butter, warriors and gauss immortals now are even MORE shooty, momlith cant be one-shotted and praetorians will become useful!

At least your not a gloating powergamer...

Flavius Infernus wrote:
If it is true that sniper rifles rolling 6's to hit get to allocate that wound, that gives Eldar rangers another cool tricksy elf cheese move, since ranger long rifles that roll a 6 to hit become AP1.

Not specifically in regards to eldar, but I think its cool in that if you get a squad full of snipers (rangers, ratlings, scouts, what have you) charged by the enemy, your snapfire will allow you to select the targets you want to hit. With eldar (if they become AP1) its sounding like its almost worth throwing rangers way forwards, small units of them, because you'll get 1 or 2 hits on overwatch, allocate them to the PW/melta/psycannon/warding stave/whatever, and watch a suddenly far scarier squad advance on the rest of your army.

Somebody please tell me that psychic powers aren't randomly generated like in fantasy.

Can't think of any particular unit, but what about using a GK librarian to cast hammer hand on a Space Marine tactical squad (assuming this will be possible)?

I belive they are simply chosen. Each Psyker gets a number of powers of choice from the generic list.

What I don't know is if they are inaddition to, or instead of, your normal Codex powers.

I'm excited I'll actually be able to play out the khornate knights scenario!

Not that this combo ranks up there with the really craziness of the new ally rules, but this one appears very easy to pull off.

Eldar/DE

Eldrad/Vect: Put them with whatever unit for an assault tarpit: you get one with a 2+ reroll and another with a 3+ reroll.

If tyranids can ally with themselves, thats 6 or 7 tervigons.

This is probably going to be nixed in the book or FAQ'd away but... If allies they're treated as a single army, then any army wide hq effect has to be considered in a new light; but if they're two seperate armies, then ally with the same faction and double your access to uniques... Gk ally with gk for 2 coteaz and 2 vindicare etc...

I think you can't ally with yourself.

Aww, but I want my double Anraykr-on-Command-barge zooming around the battlefield (complete with 20 Eternals in tow)

they way I understood it is that any vehicle can still be one-shotted by receiving a pen and an explodes result.. hull points are not structure points, they're just another way for a vehicle to get destroyed

Deadlytoaster wrote:Orks look like they will get slaughtered between the new mobility of rapid firing other races, the weakened vehicles and then casualties being take off the front keeping them from the action even longer...

It's not like Ork vehicles were fantastically sturdy anyway. On the other hand, they have a problem with taking down vehicles themselves, so the Hull Points system may work to their advantage. Then Stormboyz become more viable, charge ranges potentially become greater, and power weapons may not cut through FNP or Mega-Armor anymore while PKs work just like always... Don't write them off just yet.

Grey Templar wrote:What I don't know is if they are inaddition to, or instead of, your normal Codex powers.

Instead of, I think.

Reasons to dislike ward mmmmmmmm
We should start a thread or threads.
I will gladly write the one on the hatchet job he did on my beloved Sisters.
You want to talk about imbalance just compare GK to sisters and tell me some Sisters player didn't hand him his a** sometime in the past.
Point blank it seems obvious that if Fantasy is the template most rule changes will have been vetted on benefits to selling products not improving playability.
My 2 cents!

Oh look, another Ward hater. We've had several "I hate Matt Ward" Butthurt threads thanks, I don't think we need another. Sisters got a nerf. I think every 'Nid player would like a word with you. as for GK, we'll get ours.

Back OT, throwable grenades? All of my yes.

Will throwable grenades work like a grenade launcher but then with a shorter range? like frag small template S:3 AP:6 krak strength:6 AP:4?

Because then my tau have a chance to killy kill a vehicle with emp grenade barrages, Oh! And will vehicles get overwatch? I want my SMS to use overwatch. xD

And what about markerlights/targetting arrays will they also make the BS as usual like psychic powers?

liquidjoshi wrote:Oh look, another Ward hater. We've had several "I hate Matt Ward" Butthurt threads thanks, I don't think we need another. Sisters got a nerf. I think every 'Nid player would like a word with you. as for GK, we'll get ours.

Back OT, throwable grenades? All of my yes.

That's probably the first time I've read a GK player say that good to know there is an end to the reign on the horizon lol, and that they'll be willing to accept it

Of course it will happen. GK weren't always the super everything killer (hell, in my hand they still aren't ) and theire reign will come to an end.

Oh yeah, I don't want anybody to think I assumed they'd stay up there forever. I just like to be dramatic about it lmao

I think fliers are going to be almost essential. Not because of 6s to hit stuff, but mainly because, from what I gather, you can just supersonic them into your opponent's half and you get an instant VP!

Although Robin Cruddace has his name on the Sister's mini-dex.

Just read something on the 6th thread in news and rumors and it mentioned something about disembarking after a vehicle moved and the unit that was in it still gets its normal movement after they deploy out?

Could it be possible....could Rhino Rush have returned?

Here's a few OMG things I've noticed about the Necrons:

Necron Doom Scythes can snap-fire at BS 1, but that penalty means nothing to its Death Ray, and the Tesla Destructor is TL, so you're not losing that much since each 6 represents 3 hits.

Necron Night Scythe has the same benefit, less the Death Ray. But it is also the only Flier-Transport in the game so far, and if it is destroyed it does not harm its cargo.

Gauss removes a Hull Point on a 6, and zero hull points wrecks the vehicle. All vehicles have between 2 and 4 hull points.

The Voltaic Staff is now the best anti-tank weapon in the game, as it is assault 4 and you roll a D6 to determine the effects, where 1-5 is a glance (remove a hull point) and a 6 is a pen (roll damage table and remove a hull point)

Necron Tremorstaves reduce the enemy unit's charge range by D3. The Necron unit can use defensive fire to shoot that same unit when the charge is initiated, thus hitting that unit with the Tremorstave again and reducing the charge distance by another D3. Because charge distances are 2D6, any Necron unit with a Tremorstave can very effectively shut down assaults.

Mindshackle Scarabs + challenging characters in combat. Do I really need to explain this one?

Fast Skimmers get a 5+ cover save, and it is 4+ if they move flat-out, so now the Catacomb Command Barge just became way more resilient, and no less deadly.

Wraiths are JI, so they get an additional attack on the charge at I10 with their base Str. (because they totally needed a buff, right? )

If the Monolith is assaulted, it can defensive fire its vacuum doorway in response.

Blasts are always full-strength irrespective of where the hole in the template is, so the Doomsday Ark is now a decent all-around anti-whatever-the-scatter-lands-on gun.

Now, onto allies-dependent stuff:

Ork Big Mekk with a KFF can be used to protect a 20-man strong silver tide of Warriors, and if you attach a Chronotek, then you can re-roll for the Shokk Attack Gun.

You can take a Run Priest to solve that pesky problem of everyone else having psychic powers. Also, Murderous Hurricane combined with the Tremorstave basically means that you will never, ever get assaulted.

If a BA Sanguinary Priest is nearby, as well as a Lord w/ Rez Orb, then the Necrons can have a 4+ armor save, 5+ FNP and 4+ RP, meaning that wounds only have a 1/6 chance of actually accomplishing anything. For a SM bolter, this means it will take 12 shots just to bring down a single Necron Warrior.

Taking both Imotekh and Coteaz can make it very likely that your opponent will have to deploy first, and you will be able to seize the initiative.

Azazel I am really hoping that some of that gets fixed in the Errata but knowing GW it will probably not even get mentioned

Reivax26 wrote:Azazel I am really hoping that some of that gets fixed in the Errata but knowing GW it will probably not even get mentioned

I'm not.

But I doubt that it will, as the Necron codex was allegedly written with 6th Ed. in mind, and I believe this to be true as only in the light of 6th Ed. do some of the wacky choices in the Necron codex make sense; not to mention that it just didn't seem as typically powerful as one expects a Mat Ward codex to be prior to these new rules.

NOTE: The Mat Ward comment is objective observation that nobody can deny. I made no claims about him writing OP codices, I merely asserted that he writes strong ones, which is true in 40k: BA, GK, Necrons. Please, nobody turn this thread into a Mat Ward thing. Thank you.

azazel the cat wrote:Here's a few OMG things I've noticed about the Necrons:
[ = ]

... you forgot the fact that with 4 HQ, that gives us access to 4 Solar Pulses (four rounds of Night Fight on only your opponent's turn? FIVE, if you can take that Warlord bonus, too).
AND, with Fearless units no longer losing wounds, Scarabs just became the best tar-pit in the game.


... that realization when your army may be about to become top tier...

canadianguy wrote:Reasons to dislike ward mmmmmmmm
We should start a thread or threads.
I will gladly write the one on the hatchet job he did on my beloved Sisters.
You want to talk about imbalance just compare GK to sisters and tell me some Sisters player didn't hand him his a** sometime in the past.
Point blank it seems obvious that if Fantasy is the template most rule changes will have been vetted on benefits to selling products not improving playability.
My 2 cents!

Being a noob to the boards, we'll let this slide. Suffice to say that the Ward hate wasn't too funny then, and it's really not funny now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am happy to hear that CCWs will be given AP values,nthis will definitely streamline combat. Also my mates and I are happy to hear grenades will actually be weapons again, and not some effect generator.

azazel the cat wrote:
Ork Big Mekk with a KFF can be used to protect a 20-man strong silver tide of Warriors, and if you attach a Chronotek, then you can re-roll for the Shokk Attack Gun.

Sadly you can't reroll. Shokk Attack Gun is 2d6 strength. You can't reroll the 2D6.

Also what would be fun news for my Orks is that Mad Dok has rage. If attached to an Ork Boys 30 squad, they can have feel no pain and +2 attacks on charge.

Just to interject on what Azazel has said...

From the rumours, I agree with most of what he's said - Necrons (and scythes in particular) are looking to be very powerful.
However, the allies abilities aren't quite true, as due to being allies of convenience, the special rules/wargear won't confer to the crons, such as the KFF or sanguinary priests.

That said... I'm still expecting Necrons to be one of the most common allies due to Pulseteks and Immo'; being able to enforce night fight. Helped by the strength of their troops & HQ's too.
This means you could have the likes of Thunderwolves, Purifier-rhino-rush, Blood Angel and Deathwing lists covered by nightfight and supported by Necrons...

azazel the cat wrote:Here's a few OMG things I've noticed about the Necrons:



If a BA Sanguinary Priest is nearby, as well as a Lord w/ Rez Orb, then the Necrons can have a 4+ armor save, 5+ FNP and 4+ RP, meaning that wounds only have a 1/6 chance of actually accomplishing anything. For a SM bolter, this means it will take 12 shots just to bring down a single Necron Warrior.

Yeah, I'm liking the sounds of that too, it should be interesting.

...I'm hoping they balance the Allies rules rather than make them a total free-for-all or I might just refuse to play people trying to abuse it.

Its not a free for all. You can only ally with certain codices.

The only thing that slightly annoys me is that the goods guys get to play with each others armies like best-pals-ever, despite fluff describing them being in a state which is all but all-out war (Dark Angels/Black Templars, Eldar/Dark Eldar, Space Wolves/Grey Knights), while any destruction-oriented army basically gets shafted, not even being allowed to team up among each other.

GW basically disbalanced a very powerful game mechanism towards the empire.

Anyone should be able to ally with the Grey Knights, with he caveat that at the end of the game all non-GK units are destroyed, awarding VPs, and not counting for capturing or contesting objectives.

Well, most Codices are Imperial and it makes sense they would ally with each other.

Chaos can get proper Daemons now(and traitor guard support) so I don't know what the deal is.

Tau can have Gue'vesa, Eldar, and Dark Eldar.

Orks can team up with just about everyone.


Only Nids can't ally and that makes perfect sense. They just want to eat everything.

I'm guessing that Nids will get something to compensate. heck the 6th ed rules might just make Nids a competitive army again, depending on how MCs work now.

skoffs wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Here's a few OMG things I've noticed about the Necrons:
[ = ]

... you forgot the fact that with 4 HQ, that gives us access to 4 Solar Pulses (four rounds of Night Fight on only your opponent's turn? FIVE, if you can take that Warlord bonus, too).
AND, with Fearless units no longer losing wounds, Scarabs just became the best tar-pit in the game.


... that realization when your army may be about to become top tier...

I think they've always been at the bottom of the top tier (4th, after SW, GK & IG). And please do not misquote me; at no point did I claim that the Necrons were cheesy at all.

Just Dave wrote:Just to interject on what Azazel has said...

From the rumours, I agree with most of what he's said - Necrons (and scythes in particular) are looking to be very powerful.
However, the allies abilities aren't quite true, as due to being allies of convenience, the special rules/wargear won't confer to the crons, such as the KFF or sanguinary priests.

I thought the KFF affected all units in the bubble; not just friendly ones.

That said... I'm still expecting Necrons to be one of the most common allies due to Pulseteks and Immo'; being able to enforce night fight. Helped by the strength of their troops & HQ's too.
This means you could have the likes of Thunderwolves, Purifier-rhino-rush, Blood Angel and Deathwing lists covered by nightfight and supported by Necrons...

I agree. I think that early on, people will take the Tau as allies for the railguns, but it won't take long for people to realize that the Necrons might make the best ally, as this is what you can take with 1 of each slot:

1x Overlord w/ Warscythe & CCB
1x Harbinger of Destruction w/ Solar Pulse
5x Warriors w/ Night Scythe
1x Doom Scythe

That's 575 points of Necrons. It fits in nicely with 6x Long Fang squads, 3x Rune Priests, and 2x 5-Man Grey Hunters with Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen and a Rhino at exactly 2k points.

My only OMG thought is that so far it looks like that 6th edition is much more geared in favor of the T4 3+ save armies than any of the T3 5+ save type armies.

Just a small OMG from me.
If you can snap fire heavy weapons when you move, counting as BS1,
And if blast weapons don't reduce scatter by BS,
Dev squad with four plasma cannons anyone?

Doomhunter wrote:Just a small OMG from me.
If you can snap fire heavy weapons when you move, counting as BS1,
And if blast weapons don't reduce scatter by BS,
Dev squad with four plasma cannons anyone?

Can't fire blast as a snapfire, or on overwatch.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Doomhunter wrote:Just a small OMG from me.
If you can snap fire heavy weapons when you move, counting as BS1,
And if blast weapons don't reduce scatter by BS,
Dev squad with four plasma cannons anyone?

Can't fire blast as a snapfire, or on overwatch.

Ahh well, would have been funny though.

How in the world do you get 4 solar pulses? Thats just insane and pointless, not to mention that those people who are known for WAAC playing will simply switch to necrons. So those tournaments you entered with your top tier necron list? Yeah, expect to be out of solar pulses on turn one when you pulse snipe your opponent every match, and he counters with a pulse.

Basimpo wrote:How in the world do you get 4 solar pulses? Thats just insane and pointless, not to mention that those people who are known for WAAC playing will simply switch to necrons. So those tournaments you entered with your top tier necron list? Yeah, expect to be out of solar pulses on turn one when you pulse snipe your opponent every match, and he counters with a pulse.

Night fighting has gotten worse, as it only blocks up to 36" now, past 24" is +2 to cover, past 12" is +1 to cover.

And those with night fighting/acute senses ignore it completely..If these rule changes are true.

Four is kinda pointless. 3 would be the most anyone would need, as there is no way the armies wouldn't be close enough to render the Solar Pulse pointless after three turns anyway.

And I think you're seriously overestimating the appeal of the Solar Pulse. There are far better things in the Necron codex, like the Voltaic Staff.

There are far better things in the Necron codex, like the Voltaic Staff.

Voltaic Staff is the new Multi-Melta. The best anti-tank weapon in the game at 12 inches. It's just that it seems like vehicles are so easy to deal with that any Voltaic Staffs might be nothing but pointless overkill. Most of my 6th edition lists have one Cryptek. If I got Imotekh, the Chronotek, and if I don't have Imotekh, one Pulsetek. This is of course to save points to get more flyers and Wraiths.

You know, if the current rumors about allies are true, that means that every army, except nids, now has access to Marbo and Creed...

Actually, being able to take Marbo during NF is pretty sweet.

Thatguyoverthere wrote:You know, if the current rumors about allies are true, that means that every army, except nids, now has access to Marbo and Creed...

Creed is at best "meh" for IG.
And we still don't know if unique charectors are allowed. My gut says they won't be.

Joey wrote:

Thatguyoverthere wrote:You know, if the current rumors about allies are true, that means that every army, except nids, now has access to Marbo and Creed...

Creed is at best "meh" for IG.
And we still don't know if unique charectors are allowed. My gut says they won't be.

I hope you're right. Otherwise, I expect to see Draigo & Mephiston & Logan Grimnar tag-teaming a lot of people.

No... DEATHWING with Creed!

Fleeting Terminators with even MOAR resilient 2+ armour...

The change i saw game mechanics wise was on the gw blog... They had a page of the new vehicle rules and there was one significant change i thought was interesting.

When firing at tanks. You roll to hit. Your opponent takes cover saves. Then you roll to pen...

So when do you roll for flicker fields? I think it's after the pen.

Will that transfer over to infantry too?

Will it now be...

Roll to hit.
Cover.
Roll to wound.
Armor/invuln save.

Think about how that impacts space marines in cover vs small arms.

I am starting to think cover might be a bigger deal now.

I dont understand the nightfighting thing Where does nightfighting originate from?

Also, I never said solar pulses wernt good, im saying, why do you think you can take 4 now, when you can only take 2 with 2 hqs in the first place?

Basimpo wrote:I dont understand the nightfighting thing Where does nightfighting originate from?

Also, I never said solar pulses wernt good, im saying, why do you think you can take 4 now, when you can only take 2 with 2 hqs in the first place?

Because at 2000+ point games, you can now take 4 HQ.

azazel the cat wrote:

Joey wrote:

Thatguyoverthere wrote:
I hope you're right. Otherwise, I expect to see Draigo & Mephiston & Logan Grimnar tag-teaming a lot of people.

Regardless, I think we would all like to see that depicted in some form or another

Reply by: Tony the guardsman - click to view full reply 

19637

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 06:42:22

Post by: Tony the guardsman

DakkaHammer wrote:I haven't really seen a lot of rumors that made me excited about anything.
The overwatch: great, you can use psykers to make it normal BS, my Tau will be so... oh, wait.
Grenades: Whoo, time for destruction, my Tau will throw their...flashbangs.
.

Oh man that made my day....

Reply by: kustom - click to view full reply 

52213

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 07:30:03

Post by: kustom

If the current "rumor meta" is true, Vanguard went from everyone's favorite hate dump to awesomesauce. Well, against non TEQ.

Reply by: Freman Bloodglaive - click to view full reply 

20913

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 08:25:33

Post by: Freman Bloodglaive

Even against TEQ they can take fists and power axes (assuming that axes are just an alternative to power swords) so they'll die horribly, but they might take the terminators with them.

Reply by: throwhemon - click to view full reply 

59042

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 09:21:52

Post by: throwhemon

NecronLord3 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Then again, this wouldn't be the first time Ward has completely shat all over established fluff.

Yeah, because no other writer at GW ever alters the fluff of the universe their company created and "established the fluff" for originally. And it was Ward and Ward alone that wrote, playtested, and implemented every single 6th edition rule/piece of fluff, except anything that was good, in which case it was the Emperor and his infinite wisdom piercing the usurpers at GW...

I never said Ward was the only one. It's just that his motions tend to leave the biggest reverberations lately. It doesn't help that he's a horrendous writer, and that the changes he has made to the fluff have been almost universally in poor taste. But that's another topic.

You realize that Ward has made literally nothing new aside from a few GK characters. Everything else was stuff that had existed before, he just brought it back and put it into the setting.

GKs had almost no fluff prior to the current codex. Even relativly obscure things like the Minotaur chapter had more backstory. of course lifting the veil would ruffle some feathers. He didn't do anything to existing fluff, and since the rewrite of the Necron codex some of his more outrageous stuff makes sense now.

And rewriting the entire Necron race.

if you actually read the old necron codex you will realize that ward didn't rewrite anything, just expanded and advanced their story.

Reply by: Doomhunter - click to view full reply 

56373

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 09:35:03

Post by: Doomhunter

throwhemon wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Then again, this wouldn't be the first time Ward has completely shat all over established fluff.

Yeah, because no other writer at GW ever alters the fluff of the universe their company created and "established the fluff" for originally. And it was Ward and Ward alone that wrote, playtested, and implemented every single 6th edition rule/piece of fluff, except anything that was good, in which case it was the Emperor and his infinite wisdom piercing the usurpers at GW...

I never said Ward was the only one. It's just that his motions tend to leave the biggest reverberations lately. It doesn't help that he's a horrendous writer, and that the changes he has made to the fluff have been almost universally in poor taste. But that's another topic.

You realize that Ward has made literally nothing new aside from a few GK characters. Everything else was stuff that had existed before, he just brought it back and put it into the setting.

GKs had almost no fluff prior to the current codex. Even relativly obscure things like the Minotaur chapter had more backstory. of course lifting the veil would ruffle some feathers. He didn't do anything to existing fluff, and since the rewrite of the Necron codex some of his more outrageous stuff makes sense now.

And rewriting the entire Necron race.

if you actually read the old necron codex you will realize that ward didn't rewrite anything, just expanded and advanced their story.

Im pretty sure he has, Im going to trust somone with necron in their username on the matter said races complete fluff rewrite.

Reply by: AllSeeingSkink - click to view full reply 

59981

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 10:22:32

Post by: AllSeeingSkink

I haven't heard any rumours that I'm too excited about. I've been disappointed with most of the new rulebooks since 2nd edition, the last edition I thought was good. GW keep disappointing me every time they change the rules, I've learnt to become pessimistic at every new release.

Reply by: Dheneb - click to view full reply 

52983

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 10:34:36

Post by: Dheneb

I only just found out that the 6ed. rulebook is $124 here. That made me go "...OMG!!!".

Reply by: Grey Templar - click to view full reply 

20243

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 13:57:22

Post by: Grey Templar

Dheneb wrote:I only just found out that the 6ed. rulebook is $124 here. That made me go "...OMG!!!".

Then I would reccomend not looking at Land Raiders in the near future

Reply by: Green is Best! - click to view full reply 

24286

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 14:33:36

Post by: Green is Best!

dereksatkinson wrote:
Roll to hit.
Cover.
Roll to wound.
Armor/invuln save.

Think about how that impacts space marines in cover vs small arms.

I am starting to think cover might be a bigger deal now.

You need to re-evaluate your concept of probability. It makes no difference (statistically) when you roll your saves. It may seem like it does psychologically. You're basically saying that 6*3 is better than 3*6 because the 6 comes first.

The only way this would make a difference is if you get to roll a cover save and then roll your armor save.

Reply by: MandalorynOranj - click to view full reply 

23071

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 14:49:14

Post by: MandalorynOranj

Green is Best! wrote:

dereksatkinson wrote:
Roll to hit.
Cover.
Roll to wound.
Armor/invuln save.

Think about how that impacts space marines in cover vs small arms.

I am starting to think cover might be a bigger deal now.

You need to re-evaluate your concept of probability. It makes no difference (statistically) when you roll your saves. It may seem like it does psychologically. You're basically saying that 6*3 is better than 3*6 because the 6 comes first.

The only way this would make a difference is if you get to roll a cover save and then roll your armor save.

Even if there's no mathematical difference this still makes more sense, cover should block things before they get to wound you. And that would be sweet if they let you have cover and armor, especially since cover's only 5+ now. Although my group mainly uses ruins so not much change there...

Reply by: dereksatkinson - click to view full reply 

18801

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/26 15:02:58

Post by: dereksatkinson

Like hell there isn't a mathematical difference..

Especially when you are dealing with small arms vs space marines in cover. Not only do they get their normal save, they get their invulnerable. There is now a benefit to being in cover vs a bolter if you are a space marine. That is HUGE.

Reply by: Exergy - click to view full reply 

38926

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 01:37:52

Post by: Exergy

dereksatkinson wrote:The change i saw game mechanics wise was on the gw blog... They had a page of the new vehicle rules and there was one significant change i thought was interesting.

When firing at tanks. You roll to hit. Your opponent takes cover saves. Then you roll to pen...

So when do you roll for flicker fields? I think it's after the pen.

Will that transfer over to infantry too?

Will it now be...

Roll to hit.
Cover.
Roll to wound.
Armor/invuln save.

Think about how that impacts space marines in cover vs small arms.

I am starting to think cover might be a bigger deal now.

Where is this from?

It would kind of make sense, if you believe that GW does not want to screw DE. Flickerfields give a 5++ and now all fast skimmers have a 5++ jink save... so they both do the same thing, but if you roll them at different times then you now have a 5++ twice!

Reply by: Grey Templar - click to view full reply 

20243

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 02:01:58

Post by: Grey Templar

I like that my Nemesis Halberds still ignore armor saves, and give +1Str

Reply by: ShadarLogoth - click to view full reply 

50990

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 02:45:08

Post by: ShadarLogoth

Grey Templar wrote:I like that my Nemesis Halberds still ignore armor saves, and give +1Str

"...if a force weapon has its own unique close combat rules treat it as an AP3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry"

Not sure where you're getting +1 Str. Sounds like they will be exactly the same as they are now except being AP3.

Reply by: Andilus Greatsword - click to view full reply 

20086

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 03:50:47

Post by: Andilus Greatsword

Grey Templar wrote:I like that my Nemesis Halberds still ignore armor saves, and give +1Str

But since it's an Unwieldly weapon, won't they be striking at I1 (+2)?

Reply by: Fafnir - click to view full reply 

10347

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 03:56:49

Post by: Fafnir

Halberds would actually be pretty cool if they were AP2 I3. They'd gain an entirely new (and unique!) role as a natural TEQ on TEQ weapon. With normal power weapons being rendered ineffectual against Terminators now, the focus for most armies' combat options against TEQ will be power fists. Terminator on terminator combat will be generally a contest to see who brings the most powerfist equivalents. With AP2 halberds striking at I3, it would make GKT/Paladins an option to take down enemy TEQs before they get to strike, and would help even the playing field against TH/SS terminators (which are going to be godly now).

But knowing GW, instead of filling a really interesting new niche in what looks like a metagame which will feature terminators prominently while also making the Power Axe model actually useful for once, they'll probably just make them AP3 I6 weapons.

Reply by: Andilus Greatsword - click to view full reply 

20086

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:03:29

Post by: Andilus Greatsword

Ya I think I'd prefer AP2 I3, means my Genestealers will actually get to whittle the Paladins down before they get attacked.

Reply by: Fafnir - click to view full reply 

10347

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:04:53

Post by: Fafnir

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Ya I think I'd prefer AP2 I3, means my Genestealers will actually get to whittle the Paladins down before they get attacked.

After they get shot at, keep in mind.

Reply by: QuietOrkmi - click to view full reply 

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6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:06:33

Post by: QuietOrkmi

tgjensen wrote:

Deadlytoaster wrote:Orks look like they will get slaughtered between the new mobility of rapid firing other races, the weakened vehicles and then casualties being take off the front keeping them from the action even longer...

It's not like Ork vehicles were fantastically sturdy anyway. On the other hand, they have a problem with taking down vehicles themselves, so the Hull Points system may work to their advantage. Then Stormboyz become more viable, charge ranges potentially become greater, and power weapons may not cut through FNP or Mega-Armor anymore while PKs work just like always... Don't write them off just yet.

Aslo our ladz become harder to assault:

Assault 30 ladz with shootas and 3 big shootas, suffer 54 S4 shots, 6 S5 shots on average 9S4 and 1S5 hit, translating to on average 5 wounds...
Assault 15 burnas and suffer 15-45 auto S4 hits, on average 30 and that translates to 15 wounds...
Assault 10 Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas and suffer 10-30 auto S5 hits, average is 20 and translates to another 14 wounds...

Looks like the best way to beat orks now is in the shooting phase as we just quickly became one of the hardest armies to assault...

Reply by: Zathras - click to view full reply 

8221

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:13:14

Post by: Zathras

skoffs wrote:

Basimpo wrote:I dont understand the nightfighting thing Where does nightfighting originate from?

Also, I never said solar pulses wernt good, im saying, why do you think you can take 4 now, when you can only take 2 with 2 hqs in the first place?

Because at 2000+ point games, you can now take 4 HQ.

Actually you can take 5 HQ's if one of the 4 others you take is Nemisor Zahndrek.

Reply by: TedNugent - click to view full reply 

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6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:25:13

Post by: TedNugent

Blackgaze wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:
Ork Big Mekk with a KFF can be used to protect a 20-man strong silver tide of Warriors, and if you attach a Chronotek, then you can re-roll for the Shokk Attack Gun.

Sadly you can't reroll. Shokk Attack Gun is 2d6 strength. You can't reroll the 2D6.

Also what would be fun news for my Orks is that Mad Dok has rage. If attached to an Ork Boys 30 squad, they can have feel no pain and +2 attacks on charge.

Grotsnik does -not- have the Rage USR.

Reply by: Ascalam - click to view full reply 

37700

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:26:38

Post by: Ascalam

TedNugent wrote:

Blackgaze wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:
Ork Big Mekk with a KFF can be used to protect a 20-man strong silver tide of Warriors, and if you attach a Chronotek, then you can re-roll for the Shokk Attack Gun.

Sadly you can't reroll. Shokk Attack Gun is 2d6 strength. You can't reroll the 2D6.

Also what would be fun news for my Orks is that Mad Dok has rage. If attached to an Ork Boys 30 squad, they can have feel no pain and +2 attacks on charge.

Grotsnik does -not- have the Rage USR.

This.

It works somewhat like 5th Ed Rage, but it isn't.

Reply by: Grey Templar - click to view full reply 

20243

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:32:31

Post by: Grey Templar

And he doesn't give the Boyz his Not-Rage. he just makes them follow him as he runs everywhich way.

Reply by: Basimpo - click to view full reply 

56040

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 04:39:08

Post by: Basimpo

The 2k points games of necrons is going to be brutal. Who wouldnt take Imotekh, Trazyn (Well, I would for sure, hes my favorite 40k character) Nemesor, and just a plain jane overlord, and then throw in the courts?

Higher points? 20, TWENTY fully kitted out lords with warscythes, 2+/3+ and MSS? Sure, they cant group together, but i would do a checker board formation with them and multiassault the crap out of anyone that gets close. Not only that but giving them crazy stuff like furious charge. Whats 20 lord with warscythes on a vehicle? On the charge what, 60 str7 attacks? Thats insane.

Destruct teks? a full unit of them: 20 str 8 shots? Ive already been using the voltaic staff guys, and not only are they good for chopping up softer guys like nids, but just sheer quantity makes up for quality.

But what the heck, I dont have the money to afford the new book, for the forseeable future, and Ive already learned my lesson playing against guys that have the book when I dont

Im excited for change.

Reply by: Jidmah - click to view full reply 

39309

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 06:26:24

Post by: Jidmah

Grey Templar wrote:And he doesn't give the Boyz his Not-Rage. he just makes them follow him as he runs everywhich way.

He confers "One skalpel short of a medpack" to every model of a unit he joins. Thus the ridiculous problems of the rule, like the entire mob being unable to move because of trying to go in two different directions - every model has to move towards the closest enemy, not just the unit like in 5th ed rage.

Reply by: Green is Best! - click to view full reply 

24286

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 14:17:14

Post by: Green is Best!

Exergy wrote: It would kind of make sense, if you believe that GW does not want to screw DE. Flickerfields give a 5++ and now all fast skimmers have a 5++ jink save... so they both do the same thing, but if you roll them at different times then you now have a 5++ twice!

Getting two saves would definitely make it more survivable. A Flickerfields save with a jink save would basically give them Fateweaver style re-rolls to stay alive. My suspicion is that flickerfields will still apply to CC, whereas jink will not.

When you roll for that save makes absolutely no difference on the outcome(i.e. I can roll for cover against all his shots or against all his wounds, it makes no difference). Lets say you opponent has a BS 3 (hits on a 4+) and wounds on a 4+, has 8 shots, and you have a 4+ cover save. (basically everything is 50% for easy math)

8 shots. 4 hit. 2 wound. 1 cover. You take 1 wound.

8 shots. You roll cover first, making 4. 4 shots. 2 hits. You take 1 wound.

The only case you could conceivably make is with vehicles when rolling to negate glances versus pens. However, the only difference there is you are now rolling single saves against very specific wounds. However, the outcome of how they get there is still statistically the same. I need to stop before I confuse myself further.

Reply by: AllSeeingSkink - click to view full reply 

59981

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 15:09:41

Post by: AllSeeingSkink

Basimpo wrote:Im excited for change.

Really? The one thing I HATE about GW games is the constant change. Having to re-equip models which have been made useless (or useful), having to buy new books, new models, the fact that new rules are almost always more dumbed down than the previous edition, etc etc.

Admittedly Warhammer Fantasy got better since I started collecting (though the most recent edition is very "meh"), but 40k has only gotten worse since 2nd edition when I first put together my Space Wolves army.

Reply by: Therion - click to view full reply 

4884

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 15:18:01

Post by: Therion

The 2k points games of necrons is going to be brutal. Who wouldnt take Imotekh, Trazyn (Well, I would for sure, hes my favorite 40k character) Nemesor, and just a plain jane overlord, and then throw in the courts?

Possibly guys like me who will roll with Orikan and 10 flyers + cargo.

Reply by: Exergy - click to view full reply 

38926

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 15:52:35

Post by: Exergy

Green is Best! wrote:

Exergy wrote: It would kind of make sense, if you believe that GW does not want to screw DE. Flickerfields give a 5++ and now all fast skimmers have a 5++ jink save... so they both do the same thing, but if you roll them at different times then you now have a 5++ twice!

Getting two saves would definitely make it more survivable. A Flickerfields save with a jink save would basically give them Fateweaver style re-rolls to stay alive. My suspicion is that flickerfields will still apply to CC, whereas jink will not.

When you roll for that save makes absolutely no difference on the outcome(i.e. I can roll for cover against all his shots or against all his wounds, it makes no difference). Lets say you opponent has a BS 3 (hits on a 4+) and wounds on a 4+, has 8 shots, and you have a 4+ cover save. (basically everything is 50% for easy math)

8 shots. 4 hit. 2 wound. 1 cover. You take 1 wound.

8 shots. You roll cover first, making 4. 4 shots. 2 hits. You take 1 wound.

The only case you could conceivably make is with vehicles when rolling to negate glances versus pens. However, the only difference there is you are now rolling single saves against very specific wounds. However, the outcome of how they get there is still statistically the same. I need to stop before I confuse myself further.

unless cover lets you take more than one save. SM in cover only taking one save is kind of silly, although I kind of like it for their doctrine(our armor makes us as safe in the open as in cover, so lets never hug cover)

Reply by: Grugknuckle - click to view full reply 

58669

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 18:10:27

Post by: Grugknuckle

Basimpo wrote:
Higher points? 20, TWENTY fully kitted out lords with warscythes, 2+/3+ and MSS? Sure, they cant group together, but i would do a checker board formation with them and multiassault the crap out of anyone that gets close. Not only that but giving them crazy stuff like furious charge. Whats 20 lord with warscythes on a vehicle? On the charge what, 60 str7 attacks? Thats insane.

Forget that. Just take a boatload of Necron Warriors. Remember that guass weapons glance even a land raider on a 6+ AND Land Raiders that suffer 4 glances in the game are wrecked. Furthermore, in 6th Ed you can move and shoot rapid fire weapons up to 24" away.

Necron's no longer have to worry about anti-tank. The new worry is anti aircraft since you need 6's to hit flyers. Makes sense right? GW wants you to buy all of those expensive flying models.

Reply by: Exergy - click to view full reply 

38926

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 19:36:09

Post by: Exergy

Basimpo wrote:
Higher points? 20, TWENTY fully kitted out lords with warscythes, 2+/3+ and MSS? Sure, they cant group together, but i would do a checker board formation with them and multiassault the crap out of anyone that gets close. Not only that but giving them crazy stuff like furious charge. Whats 20 lord with warscythes on a vehicle? On the charge what, 60 str7 attacks? Thats insane.

Multi assaulting and you dont get the +1 attack which makes deathstars a little less powerful.

Reply by: Basimpo - click to view full reply 

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6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 19:51:04

Post by: Basimpo

Exergy wrote:

Basimpo wrote:
Higher points? 20, TWENTY fully kitted out lords with warscythes, 2+/3+ and MSS? Sure, they cant group together, but i would do a checker board formation with them and multiassault the crap out of anyone that gets close. Not only that but giving them crazy stuff like furious charge. Whats 20 lord with warscythes on a vehicle? On the charge what, 60 str7 attacks? Thats insane.

Multi assaulting and you dont get the +1 attack which makes deathstars a little less powerful.

Ok true. So give the furious charge to the unit that you will attack with first. Thats 15 str8 attacks. Then the rest, so 30 more attacks at 45 attacks. Still pretty good.

Therion wrote:

The 2k points games of necrons is going to be brutal. Who wouldnt take Imotekh, Trazyn (Well, I would for sure, hes my favorite 40k character) Nemesor, and just a plain jane overlord, and then throw in the courts?

Possibly guys like me who will roll with Orikan and 10 flyers + cargo.

Orikan? I dont know if id take him in a scythe swarm. If i had a WW Ctan then I would take him. It does sound nifty, but what do you need to hit an unmoved flyer? if its less than six, youd be risking a good majority of your flyers being shot down. I know this from experience, losing initiative, and while my scythes sat in a big cluster from a spearhead deployment, they almost all got shot down.

Id take imotekh just in case i needed to try and steal, sure its not guarenteed, but it is partially a game of chance.

iirc 8 night scythes, 2 from the elite slot, and 3 doom scythes is under 2k, but its been awhile since i wrote up that list so i could be wrong.

Reply by: Sigvatr - click to view full reply 

50832

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 19:56:23

Post by: Sigvatr

Basimpo wrote:

Orikan? I dont know if id take him in a scythe swarm. If i had a WW Ctan then I would take him. It does sound nifty, but what do you need to hit an unmoved flyer? if its less than six, youd be risking a good majority of your flyers being shot down. I know this from experience, losing initiative, and while my scythes sat in a big cluster from a spearhead deployment, they almost all got shot down.

Id take imotekh just in case i needed to try and steal, sure its not guarenteed, but it is partially a game of chance.

iirc 8 night scythes, 2 from the elite slot, and 3 doom scythes is under 2k, but its been awhile since i wrote up that list so i could be wrong.

All flyers must start in reservers => Orikan allows them to come in faster

Flyers must always move at least 18'', thus you always need 6s to hit all the time. Furthermore, just go for Hit&Run. Appear from reserves, move flat-out, attack, leave the battlefield, return in next turn.

Flyers cannot be hit with Template weapons thus them being in a huge bunch is meaningless.

If you go for Flyer spam, Orikan it is.

Reply by: Kingsley - click to view full reply 

3933

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 20:01:25

Post by: Kingsley

QuietOrkmi wrote:Aslo our ladz become harder to assault:

Assault 30 ladz with shootas and 3 big shootas, suffer 54 S4 shots, 6 S5 shots on average 9S4 and 1S5 hit, translating to on average 5 wounds...
Assault 15 burnas and suffer 15-45 auto S4 hits, on average 30 and that translates to 15 wounds...
Assault 10 Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas and suffer 10-30 auto S5 hits, average is 20 and translates to another 14 wounds...

Looks like the best way to beat orks now is in the shooting phase as we just quickly became one of the hardest armies to assault...

What serious assault unit cares about taking 5 wounds (not even failed saves)?

Reply by: Grey Templar - click to view full reply 

20243

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 20:15:18

Post by: Grey Templar

You can't Snap Fire with template or blast weapons IIRC.

Reply by: JB - click to view full reply 

12271

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 20:30:24

Post by: JB

Grey Templar wrote:You can't Snap Fire with template or blast weapons IIRC.

True, but you get D3 hits per flamer as part of your Overwatch fire when a unit assaults you.

You cannot use blast weapons during Overwatch Fire.

Reply by: Basimpo - click to view full reply 

56040

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/27 20:40:45

Post by: Basimpo

Sigvatr wrote:

Basimpo wrote:

Orikan? I dont know if id take him in a scythe swarm. If i had a WW Ctan then I would take him. It does sound nifty, but what do you need to hit an unmoved flyer? if its less than six, youd be risking a good majority of your flyers being shot down. I know this from experience, losing initiative, and while my scythes sat in a big cluster from a spearhead deployment, they almost all got shot down.

Id take imotekh just in case i needed to try and steal, sure its not guarenteed, but it is partially a game of chance.

iirc 8 night scythes, 2 from the elite slot, and 3 doom scythes is under 2k, but its been awhile since i wrote up that list so i could be wrong.

All flyers must start in reservers => Orikan allows them to come in faster

Flyers must always move at least 18'', thus you always need 6s to hit all the time. Furthermore, just go for Hit&Run. Appear from reserves, move flat-out, attack, leave the battlefield, return in next turn.

Flyers cannot be hit with Template weapons thus them being in a huge bunch is meaningless.

If you go for Flyer spam, Orikan it is.

Ah. Talking about 5th edition stuff

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/28 02:26:16

Post by: skoffs

How's this for a "OMG!" realization-

Chariot: move normally for a vehicle of their type, if skimmer, can also make sweep attacks (3+/4+ depending on speed, chance to deal a melee attack for each attack in profile to a unit that you pass over during movement i.e. can do a melee attack in movement phase then disapear before retaliation)
- shot same as other vehicles
- rider cannot be individually targeted
- can declare a charge – rider is considered to be in base to base with all models in base to base with the chariot, can strike and be struck as such, cannot be locked in combat, can’t do a challenge
- +1 to armour saves of embarked character
- crew is considered part of the chariot, can’t attack, etc (basically ignored)
- Rider is fearless
- can cause “Hammer of wrath” ->impact hit but gets D6 attacks resolved at S6 AP- (as opposed to 1 at user S)

So it appears the CCBarge was the prototype, at least for sweep attacks. Add that to “Hammer of Wrath” and charge attacks, it looks like the CCBarge will continue to be the best conveyance for Overlords, if not the best vehicle IN THE GAME.

Best news? MSS Scarabs, and other special weapons such as Trazyn’s Empathic Obliterator will function while on the CCBarge!!!

Reply by: ShadarLogoth - click to view full reply 

50990

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/28 03:07:42

Post by: ShadarLogoth

Therion wrote:

The 2k points games of necrons is going to be brutal. Who wouldnt take Imotekh, Trazyn (Well, I would for sure, hes my favorite 40k character) Nemesor, and just a plain jane overlord, and then throw in the courts?

Possibly guys like me who will roll with Orikan and 10 flyers + cargo.

Yeah my first thoughts as well. We'll have to see how much fire power fliers will lose with having to move on, shoot, move off next turn, etc, so often only getting 2 to 3 turns of firepower through the course of the game. However, this build alone is making me have to completely retool my CC based force.

Reply by: Exergy - click to view full reply 

38926

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/28 03:28:46

Post by: Exergy

AHHH

Death company with jumppacks

3 attacks base, 5 on the charge + one auto hit at str5 I10.

so take 12 death company and give them jump packs. On the charge against Meq, they get 60 attacks +12 hits. 40 of the attacks hit, so 52 hits. 34.6 wound. 11.5 failed saves.
Thats against SM meq, with each charging death company putting out about 1 unsaved wound per model. 12 of them will kill a 5 man TH/SS terminator squad.

All that for 40 points per model. They double tap with their bolters and launch frag or krak grenades in shooting. They can also take power weapons for + points.

Reply by: Drk_Oblitr8r - click to view full reply 

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6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/28 03:44:25

Post by: Drk_Oblitr8r

Haywire is getting a major buff imo. Roll anything but a 1 and you remove a hull point from any vehicle reguardless of armour.

Reply by: Necronboy - click to view full reply 

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6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/28 03:58:28

Post by: Necronboy

The biggest OMG moments for me were:
I get to play my Necrons with my Dark Angels!
and
I must buy NIGHT SCYTHES!

Reply by: donutboi88 - click to view full reply 

34302

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/29 22:12:36

Post by: donutboi88

I just got my 6th edition rulebook today! Can't wait to read on all the changes

Reply by: Grey Templar - click to view full reply 

20243

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/29 23:03:00

Post by: Grey Templar

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Therion wrote:

The 2k points games of necrons is going to be brutal. Who wouldnt take Imotekh, Trazyn (Well, I would for sure, hes my favorite 40k character) Nemesor, and just a plain jane overlord, and then throw in the courts?

Possibly guys like me who will roll with Orikan and 10 flyers + cargo.

Yeah my first thoughts as well. We'll have to see how much fire power fliers will lose with having to move on, shoot, move off next turn, etc, so often only getting 2 to 3 turns of firepower through the course of the game. However, this build alone is making me have to completely retool my CC based force.

They don't have to leave, just if they can't stay on the board with their normal movement.

They get to fire 4 weapons at Combat and Cruising speed so I would say their firepower greatly increased.

Reply by: AndrewC - click to view full reply 

18375

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/06/30 21:22:39

Post by: AndrewC

Sigvatr wrote:

Basimpo wrote:

Orikan? I dont know if id take him in a scythe swarm. If i had a WW Ctan then I would take him. It does sound nifty, but what do you need to hit an unmoved flyer? if its less than six, youd be risking a good majority of your flyers being shot down. I know this from experience, losing initiative, and while my scythes sat in a big cluster from a spearhead deployment, they almost all got shot down.

Id take imotekh just in case i needed to try and steal, sure its not guarenteed, but it is partially a game of chance.

iirc 8 night scythes, 2 from the elite slot, and 3 doom scythes is under 2k, but its been awhile since i wrote up that list so i could be wrong.

All flyers must start in reservers => Orikan allows them to come in faster

Flyers must always move at least 18'', thus you always need 6s to hit all the time. Furthermore, just go for Hit&Run. Appear from reserves, move flat-out, attack, leave the battlefield, return in next turn.

Flyers cannot be hit with Template weapons thus them being in a huge bunch is meaningless.

If you go for Flyer spam, Orikan it is.

Also is there not a rule about having no models on the board at the end of a game turn? Since your flyers wouldn't enter until turn 2, if your opponent wipes your limited forces in his first turn, you lose!

Cheers

Andrew

Reply by: MandalorynOranj - click to view full reply 

23071

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/07/05 19:12:49

Post by: MandalorynOranj

Something I just noticed: if you get a weapon destroyed on a vehicle, the shooter doesnt decide which weapon it is anymore; it's random. That could give things like Fire Prisms or LRBTs a bit more durability as they have a chance of keeping their main gun.

Reply by: Grey Templar - click to view full reply 

20243

6th Ed realizations that make you go "...OMG!!!| @ 2012/07/05 19:19:48

Post by: Grey Templar

MandalorynOranj wrote:Something I just noticed: if you get a weapon destroyed on a vehicle, the shooter doesnt decide which weapon it is anymore; it's random. That could give things like Fire Prisms or LRBTs a bit more durability as they have a chance of keeping their main gun.

Correct, it makes any vehicle that relies on having one big gun more durable. And a reason to buy additional weaponry.