What will 6th do to Space Wolves? Which units are going to become better, which worst?

I am not sure at the moment, after I get my Copy of 6th I will start my Space Wolf Synergy: Redux Thread.
I do know that Canis and the "Look out Sir" and some TWC will make a Diferance.

So out of this list:
6 thunder wolves
25 wolf fairs terminators
20 grey hunters
15 blood claws
Bjorn
njal
wolf lord
canis wolfborn
vindicator
land raider redeemer
4 rhinos
2 drop pods

Which would be good and which bad? (im just starting wolves btw)

He's saying he doesn't know yet, because he doesn't have the 6th Edition book yet. Keep an eye out for his thread in the near future.

JohnnoM wrote:So out of this list:
6 thunder wolves
25 wolf fairs terminators
20 grey hunters
15 blood claws
Bjorn
njal
wolf lord
canis wolfborn
vindicator
land raider redeemer
4 rhinos
2 drop pods

Which would be good and which bad? (im just starting wolves btw)

You are a Space Marine. You will be fine.

-Thunder Wolves: I don’t know at the moment, though they will become very good Tank Hunters.
-Wolf Guard Terminators: Depends on the Weapons Load Out.
-Grey Hunters: Plasma Weapons will Rock
-Blood Claws: Put them with a Wolf Pries and with the change to “Favored Enemy” Plasma Guns become Viable
-Björn: More Fragile, but he should become a force to recon with. The Plasma Cannon Version will make him a good Light Armor Hunter and the Las-Cannon [Shudder]
-Njal: Is still going to be the God of Storms, beyond that I am not sure.
-Wolf Lord: See Wolf Guard
-Canis Wolfborn: I think will he will become more viable.
-Vindicator: Fragile, but it will cause carnage before it is glanced to death
-Land Raider Redeemer: Same as the Vindicator
-4 rhinos: Exploding Battle-Taxies, but they should do their Job.
-2 drop pods: Have the Potential to inflict some glances on some transports.

Thanks for the help!

From the 6th ed rumours I've read, Space Wolves should be fine still, a high contender for sure. We're not getting nerfed too badly from what I can see.

JohnnoM wrote:So out of this list:
6 thunder wolves
25 wolf fairs terminators
20 grey hunters
15 blood claws
Bjorn
njal
wolf lord
canis wolfborn
vindicator
land raider redeemer
4 rhinos
2 drop pods

Which would be good and which bad? (im just starting wolves btw)

TWC - They won't be able to rely on wound allocation shenanigans like they used to, but they're still a tough unit to crack.
Wolf Guard Terminators - Just got much better, although they're still expensive compared to other armies.
Grey Hunters - Still good.
Blood Claws - Not as good as Grey Hunters still.
Bjorn - More fragile than before due to Hull Points (you might want to run an Iron Priest if you take Bjorn).
Njal - About the same as ever it sounds like. You can give him the new psychic powers, but it's probably best for him just to keep what he already has.
Wolf Lord - Depends on what you give him, I guess, although with the new challenges and Warlord rules, a tooled-up Wolf Lord could be an absolute monster... I know what I'm gonna be doing
Canis Wolfborn - Not sure, might be a bit weaker since his claws will likely be only AP3 now. He's still reasonably priced though.
Vindicator - Fragile, but since blast markers always hit with full strength now, they could potentially cause some serious damage. Plus they can't be Shaken/Stunned by a glance anymore.
Land Raider Redeemer - I imagine these will be handy, although we will see just how fragile hull points make them in the coming months.
Rhinos - They're gonna be fragile, but whatever. If you can hide them on Turn 1 and then blast towards your enemy lines on Turn 2, then who cares if they survive any longer?
Drop Pods - About the same as ever it sounds like. I don't really like Podding though, personally.

The Four units that will benefit the most are:

Wolf Priest: With there ability to hand out Favored Enemy to any unit they are attached to.

-Lone Wolves: They will be Murderous vs. ICs in close combat.

-Blood Claws/Sky Claws/Swift Claws: With Favored Enemy being both Close Combat and Ranged, when you mix them with a Wolf Priest.

-Long Fangs: Scoot and Shoot. [You are going to hear lots of screams with them. Think of them with a Wolf Priest.

Have not seen anything that really strikes out as OMG this is going to be so different.

Skyclaws once again become interesting with impact hits.
The ability to mix and match weapons on our termis make them suited to take on anything 2+ save or not.
Grey hunters are still just as good.
TWC seem to be just as good. New would allocation doesn't kill them too much, its just not as gravy as it used to be. It also might make people stop spending so many "extra" points on them. Thus giving more room for other stuff.

Not to mention Swift Claw. Don’t forget the Wolf Priest.

I just thought about Canis and his Wrath of the Savage, if it goes of well he could clear every model in contact, leaving no one to Assault him.

À realy space wolf player always place whit troops i got list whit non tanks.
Only 3 drop pods for my units :p

Space Wolves seem to be gaining a lot from 6th Edition (which wasn't really needed, let's be fair), including the following:
- The general trend to 6th seems to be damaging assault armies and boosting shooty armies. As Space Wolves are characteristically a COUNTER-assault, or flat-out shooty, army this can help Wolves a lot. An example of this is that defensive fire can combine with counter-assault.
With vehicles being more fragile now and their use with defensive fire, meltas on Grey Hunter squads may be getting swapped out for flamers.
- Rapid Fire may be improved.
- Allies: Necrons can grant (improved) Night Fight; helping Wolves reach that all important 24" zone. Grey Knights have a similar fighting style to Wolves and shooty Dark Eldar also operate at similar ranges (see Venoms and Blasters). It's quite possible that Sanguinary Priests can boost allied units.
- Rune Priests are set to be even more important, particularly at anti-psyker.
- Skyclaws may now be a good unit, although still have Headstrong, whilst the negative affects of rage have been removed.
- Long Fangs may be even better for anti-tank and more important for anti-monstrous creature, but are more likely to occupy worse cover.
- Space Wolves main vehicles were already fragile (Rhinos and Razorbacks), so don't suffer like the battle tanks or walkers of other armies.
- Power Fists in squads may be even better, particularly at killing Termies.
- Wolf Priests help shooting and close combat, benefitting the flexibility of squads such as Grey Hunters.


The two main setbacks for Wolves appear to be:
- Thunderwolves are worse.
- A lack if fliers and possible lack of anti-fliers.

Anpu42 wrote:-Long Fangs: Scoot and Shoot. [You are going to hear lots of screams with them. Think of them with a Wolf Priest.

At 2000pts I can see lots of cheese lists with 6x Long Fangs and 6x Wolf Priests...

With the new Wound Allocation I also see a lot of Storm Shields for Wolf Guard. I also see some very interesting “Wound Shenanigans”. Take some would scouts and arrange your front line like this.

Wolf Scouts without Special Stuff
WGBL or Wolf Priest: Runic Armor and two Wolves [On Point]
Wolf Guard with Storm Shield
Rest of the Wolf Scouts

New wound allocation rules suggest squads led by a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour could be much tougher, as if you place the Wolf Guard at the front, then they supposedly have to kill the Wolf Guard before other squad members can be harmed.
Limited transport options however...

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:-Long Fangs: Scoot and Shoot. [You are going to hear lots of screams with them. Think of them with a Wolf Priest.

At 2000pts I can see lots of cheese lists with 6x Long Fangs and 6x Wolf Priests...

I disagree. With very little close combat ability and relatively few ranged weapons, paying 100pts to re-roll to-hit rolls of 1 just doesn't seem worth it IMHO.

Just Dave wrote:New wound allocation rules suggest squads led by a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour could be much tougher, as if you place the Wolf Guard at the front, then they supposedly have to kill the Wolf Guard before other squad members can be harmed.
Limited transport options however...

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:-Long Fangs: Scoot and Shoot. [You are going to hear lots of screams with them. Think of them with a Wolf Priest.

At 2000pts I can see lots of cheese lists with 6x Long Fangs and 6x Wolf Priests...

I disagree. With very little close combat ability and relatively few ranged weapons, paying 100pts to re-roll to-hit rolls of 1 just doesn't seem worth it IMHO.

Good point, we'll have to see when the Rulebook drops so I can get all the rule changes straight haha.

Just Dave wrote:New wound allocation rules suggest squads led by a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour could be much tougher, as if you place the Wolf Guard at the front, then they supposedly have to kill the Wolf Guard before other squad members can be harmed.
Limited transport options however...

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:-Long Fangs: Scoot and Shoot. [You are going to hear lots of screams with them. Think of them with a Wolf Priest.

At 2000pts I can see lots of cheese lists with 6x Long Fangs and 6x Wolf Priests...

I disagree. With very little close combat ability and relatively few ranged weapons, paying 100pts to re-roll to-hit rolls of 1 just doesn't seem worth it IMHO.

I agree that we will see a lot of the 6xLF + 6xWP, not that its smart, I think we will see it.

Though I think I will be adding one to my “Njal Death Blossom”
-Njal, in Runic Terminator Armor
-Wolf Pries [Runic Armor or Terminator Armor, Combi-Plasma
-Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Power Sword and Cyclone Launcher
-Long Fang Sergeant with Plasma Gun and Power Axe
-5x Long Fangs with Missile Launchers.

Anpu42 wrote:
-Lone Wolves: They will be Murderous vs. ICs in close combat.

But still probably not worth the points.

-Blood Claws/Sky Claws/Swift Claws: With Favored Enemy being both Close Combat and Ranged, when you mix them with a Wolf Priest.

And their "free" initiative 10 impact attack on the charge.

-Long Fangs: Scoot and Shoot. [You are going to hear lots of screams with them. Think of them with a Wolf Priest.

Oh...That's just evil. I hadn't thought of this. I predict lots of Dakka whining. In fact, I think I'm not going to use this combo just because I am SO sick of everyone complaining about long fang missile spam.

Also, be aware that
1) You won't be able to "snap fire" with blast weapons. So if you shoot and scoot with long fangs, it's Krak missiles only. No frag. =(
2) There are two levels of "preferred enemy". There is "preferred enemy" which is for shooting only, and there is "hatred" which is for close combat only. I suppose there will be an FAQ which clarifies this for our codex.



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I predict that at a 2000 pt game, you will see SW players taking 3 units of LF's and for 50 points for an Ageius Defense line to guarantee that they'll get cover.


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Anpu42 wrote:With the new Wound Allocation I also see a lot of Storm Shields for Wolf Guard. I also see some very interesting “Wound Shenanigans”. Take some would scouts and arrange your front line like this.

Wolf Scouts without Special Stuff
WGBL or Wolf Priest: Runic Armor and two Wolves [On Point]
Wolf Guard with Storm Shield
Rest of the Wolf Scouts

I don't think this is going to work all that well. I shoot your squad and get 10 wounds. That could mean 10 models get wounded starting with the one in front and counting back. Then that 25 point Storm Shield doesn't help the squad. It only helps the WG who's holding it.

Or it could mean, you make 10 armor saves with the predominant armor type (4+ since you have so many scouts). Say you fail 5 saves. Now remove 5 models starting with the closest one and working back. In this case, the storm sheild does nothing for you.

Remember: lowest ap hit is taken first. Meaning thatg WG in termi armor is going to take those meltas and things first.

Actually you can make Lone Wolves Cheep, Resilient and Very Deadly.

I run 2, Blitz and Muzzle: Just Power Armor, CCW, Storm Shield and MotW, sometimes if I have the points each gets 2 Wolves. For 65 Pints Each 85 with the Wolves
The Immunity to ID, FNP and a 3+/3++ Save makes them hard to kill.
The MotW give them 1d6+1 Rending Attacks [1d6+2 on the Assault]. With there WS of 5 they usually hit on a 3+. I have killed many a Squad because of Sweeping Advance [This is why no Terminator Armor].
Also remember you WANT them to Die at some point.
Now they have a chance of Killing Dreads with Rending Attack, this makes them even more dangerious.

Some of my Quotes about them from my Space Wolf Synergy Thread:
-What you get with the Lone Wolf:
1 Space Wolf with a Death Wish
0-2 Wolves

-MotW: Always an option just be prepared with quotes like: “I did not know that is was possible to stick an arm in the human ear up to its elbow”, “Grots do make great clubs” and “A Pulse Rifle should not go there!”. Guardsman Marbo will think “Now that was overkill.

How do you use him?
-Like the crazed psycho he is. You point him at something big and give the command “Kill” and then cover the eyes of the Blood Claws so they won’t get traumatized. This is especially true with the MotW Lone Wolves.”
-The funny part is that in the first few turn of the game you pray for good saves and then as the game move on you should start to get really aggressive and trying to get him killed with thing like. “I Charge the Hive Tyrant and his full Guard!” 3 turns later you may be looking for something else like a Fex and just stop 1 inch away and to quote Joe Swanson and shout “BRING IT ON!”
-Remember one thing: It is impossible for you to loose in Close Combat. If you can inflict 1 wound most of the time you have won, then if he fails his moral you have a chance of catching him in a Sweeping Advance. If you take the one would you get one save and if you save nothing happens. If you loose your last wound you just stole a VP from your opponent.

It' s just me, but for 85 points, I'd rather have an up-gunned razorback and 10 points to spare. For 65 points I'd take a Land speeder with mm. Or you could shave some points from something else and make this dude a WGBL instead. Sure, the lone wolf is killy, but only if he gets to CC in the first place. He's too easy to ignore.

But that was 5th edition. In 6th Edition, I might take an Aegis defense line with a lascannon for 70 points.

We'll see.


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Grugknuckle wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:
-Lone Wolves: They will be Murderous vs. ICs in close combat.

But still probably not worth the points.

It's questionable whether lone wolves will be able to "challenge" an IC since a lone wolf is NOT a character.

Grugknuckle wrote:It' s just me, but for 85 points, I'd rather have an up-gunned razorback and 10 points to spare. For 65 points I'd take a Land speeder with mm. Or you could shave some points from something else and make this dude a WGBL instead. Sure, the lone wolf is killy, but only if he gets to CC in the first place. He's too easy to ignore.

But that was 5th edition. In 6th Edition, I might take an Aegis defense line with a lascannon for 70 points.

We'll see.

True, but can a 65 point Razorback take out a 50+ man Guard Mob in One Turn?
Point for Point I find them Very Effective.
In one game my 130 [65x2] points took out well over 300 points a piece.

I say, give one a try:
-Modeling them is a Blast
-You will have more fun watching them tie up the 30 Model Ork Mob for 5 turns while the rest of your army can ignore them.

Seems like this would be the best place to ask.

1) Allies, do folks who have the book think Wolf allies will be able to field 2 HQ for the one they have access to, as it is in their own list?

2) As I don't have the book yet, (but I am planning on getting some Wolf allies for my Guard) Would Space wolf players recommend a Wolf lord on Thunderwolf, or Arjac Rockfist as a better HQ option?

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Seems like this would be the best place to ask.

1) Allies, do folks who have the book think Wolf allies will be able to field 2 HQ for the one they have access to, as it is in their own list?

2) As I don't have the book yet, (but I am planning on getting some Wolf allies for my Guard) Would Space wolf players recommend a Wolf lord on Thunderwolf, or Arjac Rockfist as a better HQ option?

1) The rule stats "In a Space Wolves army, each HQ 'slot' allows you to take up to two Space Wolf choices" - so, I would say yes. Ultimately, I'd wait for a FAQ (probably upon release of the rulebook) however, as technically it's a detachment, not an army.

2) Arjac isn't a HQ, he's an upgrade for Wolf Guard; so that's that question solved! Although Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are VERY powerful and probably the better choice of the two.
Rune Priests are the best, competitively, choices however and may give Guard some psychic defence they're otherwise lacking.
FWIW, Logan can grant +1 attacks to all friendly units in 18" (once per game) and can grant Tank Hunters, Relentless, Preferred Enemy and Fearless to a unit he leads. Rules as written, this would apply to allies too...
Wolf Priests (grant preferred enemy and fearless to unit) may also be good for leading Grey Hunter Squads or Guard Blobs.

Hope that helped man!


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Holy crap. Ragnar, RAW, could grant +D3 attacks to a Guard Blob on the charge and Furious Charge (the latter once-per-game).

Bjorn would also be a very strong ally for Guard; potentially counting as an objective, being a tough-arse vehicle and most importantly, helping get the 1st turn.

Yeah thats great, thanks.

It means I'll probably get both, and then if they rule the Space Wolf allies can have two HQ, I'll add a runepriest.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Seems like this would be the best place to ask.

1) Allies, do folks who have the book think Wolf allies will be able to field 2 HQ for the one they have access to, as it is in their own list?

2) As I don't have the book yet, (but I am planning on getting some Wolf allies for my Guard) Would Space wolf players recommend a Wolf lord on Thunderwolf, or Arjac Rockfist as a better HQ option?

1] I don’t Know Yet
2] Thor, sorry Arjac is a Character Upgrade for Wolf Guard.
-A Thunder Lord would only be good if you are planning on taking Thunder Wolves.

Better HQ Choices:
-Logan: What he can do for any Army is Unbelievable, and he will make you Wolf Guard with Thor your Troop Choice.
-Njal: God of Storms
-Ragnar: As a leader of a Blob you plan on getting into Close Combat
-Björn: Once more he makes a Great Leader and Anti-Vehicle Unit.
-Wolf Lord: Keep him on Foot and load him up, Terminator Armor and Saga of the Bear in you CCS and he give you one more hard to kill Body Guard.
Wolf Pries: I would put one with your CCS or a Heavy Weapons Squad to take advantage of Favored Enemy.
Rune Priest: Just a good Choice overall.
Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Relatively Cheep.

Anpu42 wrote:
In one game my 130 [65x2] points took out well over 300 points a piece.

I say, give one a try:

Nope.

The Meta at my FLGS does not include any IG. But if it did, I would be afraid to hear all of the cheese-whining if my one lone wolf killed 50 guardsmen in one turn. That's just not right.

The Meta at my FLGS DOES include a bunch of Necron players though. And to be honest, I try to avoid CC with them because once you get into CC with them, it's really hard to get out of CC.

Grugknuckle wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:
In one game my 130 [65x2] points took out well over 300 points a piece.

I say, give one a try:

Nope.

The Meta at my FLGS does not include any IG. But if it did, I would be afraid to hear all of the cheese-whining if my one lone wolf killed 50 guardsmen in one turn. That's just not right.

The Meta at my FLGS DOES include a bunch of Necron players though. And to be honest, I try to avoid CC with them because once you get into CC with them, it's really hard to get out of CC.

That’s a perfect Job for Blitz and Muzzle, you can tie them up for a turn or two, that what they do best, Tar-Pit



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The Sick thing I cam up with them was for an APOC Game:
-Karamazov
-Muzzle and Blitz
-By Any Means Necessary

You Tar-Pit get surrounded and then start dropping Pie on them with no scatter. Odds are they will both live the first strike or two.

Thanks for the further info Anpu.

As to my list, yeah probably one of the key factors would be taking Thunderwolves, as I love the look of the models.

My allies list options going on what we have seen in the thread in N&R would be something like.

HQ - Lord on Thunderwolf
Elite - 5x Wolfguard in Terminator armour + Arjac Rockfist
Trps - 10 Grey Hunters
Fast - 3 Thunderwolf Cav
Hvy - 5 Longfangs

How I field that would vary on what I was after that battle. Although my regular opponents have Dark Eldar, Orks, Tyranids and Necrons, and apart from the Ork player, its mostly, fun based have a laugh and game kind of situation.

Me and Ork player are a bit more serious, but still not WAAC level.

I was think of Allies to field with my Space Wolves, and was thinking of a Harlequin with an Autarch on a jet bike and Guardian Jet Bike Squadron [x4], painted up like Harlequins, this should run me about 500 points.

Grugknuckle wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:
-Lone Wolves: They will be Murderous vs. ICs in close combat.

But still probably not worth the points.

You may not like them, but you can't really argue that Lone Wolves aren't points efficient. I run a TH/SS + 2x Fenrisian Wolves Lone Wolf for 100pts and it almost always performs spectacularly (I've killed a tooled-up Daemon Weapon Chaos Lord, Mephiston and (in one game) a Cronos Parasite Engine and Talos Pain Engine in succession). I prefer a more assault-heavy army in general though.

You've also had him completely annihilated in other games, so there's that...

And what exactly, do you propose could do the same damage, for 100pts, and NOT get annihilated in most games?

Titan Atlas wrote:You've also had him completely annihilated in other games, so there's that...

JohnnoM wrote:And what exactly, do you propose could do the same damage, for 100pts, and NOT get annihilated in most games?

Oh snap!

Thing was though, the times he got annihilated he didn't do much. Some of the more recent games he practically didn't even do a thing.

Just saiyan.

The one thing about Lone Wovles is that If he survives the Game you give your apponent a Victory Point.
I have yet to give up that VP, but it usaly takes until turn 3 to get both of them killed.
Beside its fun counting up the casualties they infict to see killed the most. Most of the time its Muzzle.

Titan Atlas wrote:Thing was though, the times he got annihilated he didn't do much. Some of the more recent games he practically didn't even do a thing.

Just saiyan.

I could say the same about the blood punisher...

Anyway, taunting aside, Lone Wolves are a cheap suicide unit, and if it works (which it usually does) then it makes back more than its points easily, and even if it fails it'll generally tie up a big, important unit for a turn or 2 in assault and/or shooting.

^Exactly, they are more for fun than competetiveness.

@ Andilus Greatsword:
Crackle and Pop!

Yeah, I'll acknowledge it.

I just love the back and forth is all

Atlas...I have a feeling he'll do just fine come 6th.

Yeah, and with the new rules, at 2k points, you might be able to have 6 running around of you wanted too!

Yeah, joy...

liking your avatar, btw.

cheers, It works on so many levels now with the new allies rules!

Yeah, I'd be intrigued to try out a little BA-Necron action (sounds a little.....wrong..) considering how powerful they sound like they're gonna be.

But I should let the discussion remain on SW.

This is what I call my Top Gear Winter Wolves Company. It came out of an APOC Game. with some of the new rules I think there will be a lot changes in how I operate it.

3000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster

Wolf Lord Clarkston in Power Armour, 270 pts (Wolftooth Necklace; Thunderwolf Mount; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Saga of the Bear)
 2 Fenrisian Wolf
1 Wolf Lord May in Power Armour, 235 pts (Belt of Russ; Wolftooth Necklace; Thunderwolf Mount; Close Combat Weapon; Frost Weapon x1Saga of the Beastslayer)
 2 Fenrisian Wolf
Wolf Lord May in Power Armour, 285 pts (Belt of Russ; Wolftooth Necklace; Thunderwolf Mount; Power Fist x2, Saga of the Warrior Born)
 2 Fenrisian Wolf
Thunderwolf Cavalry, 450 pts
 1x Thunderwolf Cavalry (Storm Shield; Thunder Hammer)
 4x Thunderwolf Cavalry (Melta Bombs; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Shield)

This is a roughly 1,300 point Death Star. In 5th it was a Vehicle and Monster Hunting Unit, capable of destroying even the most resilient Dreadnought or Hive Tyrant in the 1st Turn of the Assault. Even some War Machines would falter under them.
In 6th this unit will be an IC/Vehicle/MC Hunting Unit. With all of the S5 Rending Attacks it should be able to Glance even Land Raiders and Monoliths to Death, and this is not counting the Thunder Hammers and Power Fist Attacks. For the Challenges I think Clarkston should be able to take most opponents. All of the Look out Sir’s should keep the rest alive.

Iron Priest, 170 pts (Runic Armour; Thunderwolf Mount; Wolf Tail Talisman; Wolftooth Necklace; Thunder Hammer; Bolt Pistol, Servo Arm)
 4x Cyberwolf

He was just my first scratch built Thunderwolf. I think this would also be a good Transport Hunter. The Runic Armor will make him hard to kill. Then there is the Look out Sir once more. In a Vehicle Heavy Army I might use him to run around and shore up HP. I might also give him 3 Servitors and place him next to Björn.

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gunx2)
 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)
 Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist)

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gunx2)
 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)
 Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist)

The Grey Hunters are the Core as they should be. Find them some cover and use them as a Counter-Assault unit. With the Plasma Guns even Terminators can be gunned down.
It looks like not much is changing from 5th to 6th other than the ability to take down vehicles quicker.

Bran Redmaw (IA), 210 pts ((IA11, pg. 127)
Grey Hunters Pack, 220 pts (Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Meltagun x2)
 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)
 Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist)

Redmaw is a Special Character out of Imperial Armor 11. His two big things is one he can take a Grey Hunter Pack and use them as Scouts. The other is he has a chance to become a full fledged Werewolf; I think this is just cool.
With the new Reserve Rules he will get into play quicker.

Long Fangs Pack, 155 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Missile Launcher x5)
 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Axe x1)

Yes this is just a boring onld Missile Spam Long fangs unit, but with Missile Launcher being able to take the “Skyfire” Rule I think I will keep them.

Long Fangs Pack, 180 pts (Combat Weapon x5; Heavy Bolter x1; Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x2)
 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Axe x1)

This is one I built out of left over heavy weapons in my bits box. The Heavy Bolter is from a scout along with one of the Missile Launchers. One of them getting him off his base to repaint him lost half a leg, so now he has a peg make out of a flight base post. Tactically I have found this to be one of my most versatile units.
In 6th I think it will be the same. I have the 2 Missile Launcher for Air Defense, the 2 Las Cannons for Anti-Armor Work and the number of times the Heavy Bolter has just spent time shoot up little things like Spore Mines. With the ability to concentrate fire and blast Armor off the field, now it has even become more deadly to transports.

5 Long Fangs Pack, 205 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Close Combat Weapon x5; Plasma Cannon x5; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack; Fire Control)
1 Squad Leader (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack; Fire Control)

Plasma 6th Edition will let them kill Trandports Dead

Lone Wolf Muzzle, 85 pts (Power Armour; Mark of the Wulfen; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Shield)
 2 Fenrisian Wolf

Lone Wolf Blitz, 85 pts (Power Armour; Mark of the Wulfen; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Shield)
 2 Fenrisian Wolf

In 5th they were Mob and Monster Hunters; now these two I think are going to become Vehicle and MC Hunters. If they can Challenge they become IC Hunters.

JohnnoM wrote:Yeah, and with the new rules, at 2k points, you might be able to have 6 running around of you wanted too!

Yeah but it's hard to keep 6 of them dead, since more often than not you don't want them to survive the game.

Anpu42 wrote:The one thing about Lone Wovles is that If he survives the Game you give your apponent a Victory Point.
I have yet to give up that VP, but it usaly takes until turn 3 to get both of them killed.
Beside its fun counting up the casualties they infict to see killed the most. Most of the time its Muzzle.

I wonder how 6th Ed will change this. Aren't kill points different now?

And what exactly, do you propose could do the same damage, for 100pts, and NOT get annihilated in most games?

A rune priest with jaws and LL only costs 100 points. They can do a tremendous amount of damage too. And even in games when they aren't wrecking face, they're still providing psychic defense and leadership.

Taking lone wolves is just a matter of taste. I'm not saying you shouldn't and I'm not saying you should. I'm just saying that I don't take lone wolves in competetive games because they are a "one-trick pony". Maybe I'll take some for fun one day though, who knows.

Grugknuckle wrote:Taking lone wolves is just a matter of taste. I'm not saying you shouldn't and I'm not saying you should. I'm just saying that I don't take lone wolves in competetive games because they are a "one-trick pony". Maybe I'll take some for fun one day though, who knows.

That I will compleatly agree with. They are not for turny list.

I imagine that if they survive the opponent gets their cost in VPs or something.

@Anpu

I think your death star is going to be just as killy in 6th as it was in 5th. Thunderwolf Cav and mounted wolf lords will always be crazy tough. But I still don't like your list.

You only have 2 troops (Two!) in a 3000 point list. If I had 6 troops, I could afford to feed three of my troop choices one a time to your death star while I obliterate your two troop choices.

There is no question that your Thunderstar could kill anything you put in front of it. But frankly, you could do the same damage with 1300 points of Grey Hunters and WG terminators. For the price of your 3 wolf lords, 5 TW cav and 6 Fenwolves you could get 30 fully kitted Grey Hunters in Rhinos and LR Crusader with 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest. That list will win you more games and you'll hear fewer people whining about cheese.

Grugknuckle wrote:@Anpu

I think your death star is going to be just as killy in 6th as it was in 5th. Thunderwolf Cav and mounted wolf lords will always be crazy tough. But I still don't like your list.

You only have 2 troops (Two!) in a 3000 point list. If I had 6 troops, I could afford to feed three of my troop choices one a time to your death star while I obliterate your two troop choices.

There is no question that your Thunderstar could kill anything you put in front of it. But frankly, you could do the same damage with 1300 points of Grey Hunters and WG terminators. For the price of your 3 wolf lords, 5 TW cav and 6 Fenwolves you could get 30 fully kitted Grey Hunters in Rhinos and LR Crusader with 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest. That list will win you more games and you'll hear fewer people whining about cheese.

Other than the fact I like this list i Agree compleatly. Like I said this was for an APOC game and my group uses it let out our inner WAAC.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Seems like this would be the best place to ask.

1) Allies, do folks who have the book think Wolf allies will be able to field 2 HQ for the one they have access to, as it is in their own list?

2) As I don't have the book yet, (but I am planning on getting some Wolf allies for my Guard) Would Space wolf players recommend a Wolf lord on Thunderwolf, or Arjac Rockfist as a better HQ option?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/06/40k-allies-are-for-what.html

This should answer of your questions. No taking Arjac.

This is more like what I Normally Field.


2000 Point Wolf Lord Kampftänzer Company

Wolf Lord Kampftänzer, 183 pts (Power Armour; Belt of Russ; Wolf Tail Talisman; Wolftooth Necklace; Frost Glaive; Storm Bolter; Saga of Majesty)

Rune Priest in Power Armour, 103 pts (Runic Weapon; Storm Bolter; Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane)

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gun x2)
o Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)
o Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist, Wolf Standard)

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gun x2)
o Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)
o Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist, Wolf Standard)

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gun x2)
o Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)
o Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist, Wolf Standard)

Long Fangs Pack, 155 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Missile Launcher x5)
o Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Axe)

Long Fangs Pack, 145 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Heavy Bolter x2; Missile Launcher x3)
o Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Axe)

Long Fangs Pack, 205 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Plasma Cannon x5)
o Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Sword)

that's more like it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is me...

HQ

RP in power armor + Chooser, LL and JotWW


Elites

Wolf Scouts x 5 + Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF


Troops

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, Plasmagun
Rhino

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + LC&TLPlasmagun

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + LC&TLPlasmagun

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + TL Lascannon


Heavy Support

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon


Fast Attack

Land Speeder Typhoon

Land Speeder MM/HF

Total = 1999 points, 19 Kill Points, 6 scoring units,

Model Count
(3 Rhinos, 3 Razorbacks, 2 Landspeeders, 64 Space Wolves in power armor, 5 Wolf Scouts)

Grugknuckle wrote:that's more like it.

This is the closest push button win list I have, but I get bored with it quickly. That why I feild things like the Top Gear List.

Now that power weapons are only AP3, I may consider replacing something with a unit of terminators lead by a wolf lord in a drop pod.

Grugknuckle wrote:Now that power weapons are only AP3, I may consider replacing something with a unit of terminators lead by a wolf lord in a drop pod.

The only problem I have had with Drop Pod Wolves in Terminator Armor is the Small Numbers, and the Wargear you need to survive until turn 2 is not cheep. I find that Drop Pod Wolves work best as Grey Hunter, and every Grey Hunter Pack I have have a Power Fist, Wolf Standard and a MotW.

I am not that concerned with the whole AP3/AP2 thing. Most of the time I don’t face Terminators, if I do I usually have Logan and Arjac or lots of Plasma.

Depending on how Njal's Runic Weapon ends up working (in terms of psychic defense), I could see him being a very popular ally to shut down opposing psykers. (Please don't waste the typing effort of telling me no special character allies, that's a false rumour.)

Thunderwolf Lords look to be better than ever, with power weapons (including most of the force weapons!) being only AP 3. The runic armor surely becomes a must-buy that will give you really faster TH/SS terminators that don't rely on a Land Raider to get around. The rules for hitting vehicles in melee (a 3+ at the worst) will make it easy to run three of them up there and start pulping 3 vehicles a turn.

Flyers present the only real concern for a list like that. Fortunately it seems the MLs may have an anti-aircraft option. If that is the case, I could see myself using a rune priest with the default divination power (reroll misses) attached to 6 ML Long Fangs and a CML Termy to bring those mothers down!

Tempest Wrath may also become a favorite power

Anpu42 wrote:Tempest Wrath may also become a favorite power

I love TW. One of my RP got the nickname 'Jarl of Tempests' after he took down 3 or 4 DE skimmers in one game with it. Including a flat-out one with Haemy and Wyches.

pretre wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:Tempest Wrath may also become a favorite power

I love TW. One of my RP got the nickname 'Jarl of Tempests' after he took down 3 or 4 DE skimmers in one game with it. Including a flat-out one with Haemy and Wyches.

And if it works on Flyers

Hadn't seen that. Neat.

Njal's Vengful Tornado and Chail Lighting are going to clear the Skies. I need a Power Armored Version of Njal now.

Anpu42 wrote:Njal's Vengful Tornado and Chail Lighting are going to clear the Skies. I need a Power Armored Version of Njal now.

In the past, I only ran PA Njal. I have two of them (converted the other to be a bit different). I love that model.

Mine is actualy a Coverson of the Librarian from the new Space Hulk

The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

If you go for the ones in the main rulebook. You have to give up all your current powers for X amount in the rule book, the X depends on how good a psyker the dude is.

No one is going to play Njal with a few random main rulebook powers I bet...



Edited to add - NINJA POWERRRRRRrrrrr.....

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Not if you take the ones from C:SW.

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Well you can roll and then go for the default one if you don't like the result. The default one for Divination is already one of the best.

Yeah, I would not take random powers for Njal ever. He has like 8 powers as it stands, many of which are better than the ones in the book. The 100 pt Rune Priest though...

magodedisco wrote:

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Well you can roll and then go for the default one if you don't like the result. The default one for Divination is already one of the best.

Yeah, I would not take random powers for Njal ever. He has like 8 powers as it stands, many of which are better than the ones in the book. The 100 pt Rune Priest though...

That was my thought to, but only a second Rune Priest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
6e Grey Hunters

As for how 6th looks to effect Grey Hunters I will use my normal Grey Hunter Packs.
I run 10 man Foot-Slogging Grey Hunters.

Plasma Packs
o 1x Grey Wolf that I act as a Sergeant to anchor the Pack around. I have him equipped with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, Power Fist and Wolf Standard.
o 1x Grey Hunter with Plasma Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.
o 2x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun and CCW.
o 6x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.

5th Edition: This has been and always will be my Core Troop Choice; I even field it when I am running a Loganwing. The primary purpose was just to be mid-ranged fire support. I would play the two of them in some cover the center of the board, hunker down and just shoot up anything that got close. The 2 Plasma Guns gave me a 24” kill most anything weapon and the bolt guns kept everyone’s head down. The only threat I really had was from Nids. There was no need to move them except near then end to advance and take objectives as that would reduce my “Zone of Control”.
The Wolf Standard was actually my primary Defensive Gear; if you not the wording “In the next Assault Phase”. So I would at the end of My Assault Phase I look and see if any that Grey Hunter Squad was likely to be assaulted, if so I would “Pop the Banner” so to speak. This would give my opponent a choice of assaulting me right then and there and watch me reroll all of those “1s” or wait another turn before assaulting my position.
The Power Fist was there just to take out High Toughness and Anti-Tank work, that and the model in my 1st Pack just looked cool.
Why no Transports or Drop Pods you may ask? With the Local Meta we tended to play Gunlines with some maneuvering. Once I got some vehicles that changed a only a little for them. Also if I added a Wolf Guard I could not take the 10th Grey Wolf and the 2nd Plasma Gun. I have tried them in a Land Raider Crusader and/or Redeemer. Those attempts have not gone bad, but they could have been better, so they remained Foot Sluggers.

6th Edition: I think they will remain my Core. I might Mechanize them now though; with the ability to move and fore both Plasma Guns at 24” along with the 2 Storm Bolters. When the Rhino Explodes I will then have a nice 5+ Cover Save Crater to hide in. However when I get to where I am going they will get out and hold that objective. I might also Pod them in with the 24” Plasma Guns.
As for Assaulting; the Power Fist now has a more important job, defeating AP2 and with the new Assaulting Vehicle Rules it should have a better chance of killing them especially with the Wolf Standard.

Melta Packs
o 1x Grey Wolf that I act as a Sergeant to anchor the Pack around. I have him equipped with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, Power Fist and Wolf Standard.
o 1x Grey Hunter with Plasma Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.
o 2x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Melta-Gun and CCW.
o 6x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.

5th Edition: These are my tank hunters, and 2nd line Core. I do tend to be more mobile with them as range was not that big of an issue. After IA 11 came out I started to attach one to Redmaw to use as “Heavy Scouts”. In this role I would also try to attach a WGBL, Wolf Priest and/or a Wolf Guard to them. I did not find them as effective as my Plasma Gun Packs, but they still did well.

6th: Edition: Oddly enough they are going to become my 3rd line Core behind the Flamer Packs. With the Plasma Pack now getting a boost in Anti-Armor I will be pressed to find uses for them. I will probably keep adding the to Redmaw so when I am Running my “Winter Wolves” list.

Flamer Packs
o 1x Grey Wolf that I act as a Sergeant to anchor the Pack around. I have him equipped with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, Power Fist and Wolf Standard.
o 1x Grey Hunter with Plasma Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.
o 2x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Flamer and CCW.
o 6x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.

5th Edition: These are my 3rd Line Packs. With the limited range and the need to get into assault range they usually got replaced by Blood Claws when I had the points. Other than that they worked ok most of the time.

6th Edition: They just became my 2nd line Grey Hunters. I am most likely going to use them to hold objectives on my side of the table. With the Wolf Standard and 2 Flamers, Snap Fire just got a lot better. They are also going to most likely to Wolf Guard for Moral purposes and an extra “Gun on the Line”.

It will probably take a few game to see if my thoughts are right or not.

I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.



Well here is my favourite list (at 1750pts), thankfully it doesn't look like I will need to change it much for 6th.

HQ - Rune Priest - Chooser of the Slain, Meltabombs - Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath - 115pts

Elites - Wolf Guard - 147pts

Troops - 8 Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Wolf Standard - Rhino - 170pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - Combi-melta, Power Fist

Troops - 9 Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Wolf Standard - Rhino - 185pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - Combi-melta, Thunder Hammer

Troops - 5 Grey Hunters - Flamer - Razorback w/ Twin-linked Assault Cannon - 170pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - 2 Lightning Claws

Troops - 5 Grey Hunters - Flamer - Razorback w/ Twin-linked Assault Cannon - 150pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - Power Weapon

Fast Attack - 2 Land Speeder Typhoons - 180pts

Fast Attack - 2 Land Speeder Typhoons - 180pts

Fast Attack - 3 Land Speeder Tornados - 3x Multi-melta, 2x Heavy Flamer - 200pts

Heavy Support - Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125pts

Heavy Support - Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125pts


With the greater importance of Psykers, the Rune Priests is as powerful as ever.
Wolf Guard should remain useful for morale, anti-tank and preventing monstrous creatures, who are likely to be more mobile and common IMHO.
Grey Hunters have, if anything, got better as they can now Defensive-Fire and Counter-charge.
The vehicles however are what I'm worried about, with the introduction of hull points making them more fragile. Whilst a jink save helps Speeders somewhat, hull points could really hurt. Then again, Rhinos/Razorbacks and Land Speeders are probably so fragile that they'd be destroyed before losing all their hull points anyway, so should remain solid inclusions in the army.
Vindicators however look like they could struggle. These guys will face a lot of firepower and with hull points, they could really wither under it.

Overall, it doesn't look like I'll need to make many changes.
Anti-air could be crucial and it could be interesting to see where it's available, although I'd really rather not have to resort to Missile Long Fangs.
The Grey Hunters Meltaguns will probably be swapped for Plasma Guns, with the reduced power of AV14 and increased durability of termies and rapid fire supporting the latter.
Depending on how Hull Points work out in-game, the vindicators may need to be dropped, which would suck as I love these guys and am not sure what would be a suitable replacement.
Sadly, Hull Points also renders the Blood Claw, Wolf Priest and Redeemer team that I like unlikely to be worth it.
Wolf Priests leading Grey Hunter squads seems like an interesting possibility though.

The changes in 6th so far seems to favour an infantry-heavy - possibly rhino-rush - list for Space Wolves, which admittedly does suit the guys. I'm just annoyed it all seems to be further encouraging shooty armies and long-fangs...

Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

Jayden63 wrote:Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

Agreed.

If the meta goes anti-mech and rhinos really are hurt by hull points, then 10-man with a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour foot-slogging could be the way to go IMHO.
HOWEVER, wound allocation goes from the lowest-AP to the highest, so any AP2 or less weapons will target the Wolf Guard if he's in front. So it might be worthwhile to try and keep him 3rd closest or with a Storm Shield.

Just Dave wrote:I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.

Wolf Scouts. I have a 5/6 chance of coming in on the side I want. Oh now I have a 35/36 chance of coming in on the side I want.

Just Dave wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

Agreed.

If the meta goes anti-mech and rhinos really are hurt by hull points, then 10-man with a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour foot-slogging could be the way to go IMHO.
HOWEVER, wound allocation goes from the lowest-AP to the highest, so any AP2 or less weapons will target the Wolf Guard if he's in front. So it might be worthwhile to try and keep him 3rd closest or with a Storm Shield.

I just see my 9 man GH with WG in a drop pod, become an 8 man GH with Termi WG in a drop pod. I loose 1 guy and gain potentially tremendous staying power.

pretre wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.

Wolf Scouts. I have a 5/6 chance of coming in on the side I want. Oh now I have a 35/36 chance of coming in on the side I want.

Isn't it 4/6 in 5e? And now it is 4/6+(2/6*4/6) = 32/36

Jayden63 wrote:Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

I don't think wound allocation will work like that in H2H.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:

JohnnoM wrote:So out of this list:
6 thunder wolves
25 wolf fairs terminators
20 grey hunters
15 blood claws
Bjorn
njal
wolf lord
canis wolfborn
vindicator
land raider redeemer
4 rhinos
2 drop pods

Which would be good and which bad? (im just starting wolves btw)

You are a Space Marine. You will be fine.

rofl

I'll throw in my typical + competitive builds into the discussion here...

Fun Build
HQ
Wolf Lord (Terminator Armour, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Saga of the Bear, Wolf Tooth Necklace)
Rune Priest (Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane)

ELITES
7x Wolf Guard (Arjac Rockfist, 2x Terminators with Powerfist/Storm Shield, 2x Terminators with Dual Wolf Claws, 2x Squad Leaders with Powerfist/Combi-melta, Squad Leader with Power Weapon/Combi-melta, Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-melta/Extra Armour)

TROOPS
9x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)

HEAVY SUPPORT
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)

TOTAL: 1999pts

I'm probably going to have to switch some things around with my fun build... The Wolf Lord will probably get a fist instead of a Power Weapon, and I'll probably ditch the power weapons on the Grey Hunters too. Might try some different powers on the Rune Priest too.

Tournament Build
HQ
Njal Stormcaller
Wolf Priest

ELITES
Lone Wolf (Terminator Armour, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, 2x Fenrisian Wolves)
4x Wolf Guard (4x Combi-melta, 3x Powerfist, 1x Power Weapon)

TROOPS
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
5x Grey Hunters (Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)

HEAVY SUPPORT
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers, Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers, Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)

Come 6th, I'll probably ditch the power weapons on this list too, and possibly the Razorbacks as well (depending on how make-or-break hull points become). All-in-all though, 6th isn't hurting Space Wolves that much, if at all.

Andilus Greatsword wrote: All-in-all though, 6th isn't hurting Space Wolves that much, if at all.

Like someone else said. They are marines, they will be fine. I've seen a lot of these rules either help or are neutral to marine armies. A lot of the bigger swing is going to hit the xenos much harder.

pretre wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.

Wolf Scouts. I have a 5/6 chance of coming in on the side I want. Oh now I have a 35/36 chance of coming in on the side I want.

Except that you can't assault the turn you arrive. You can fire a meltagun and a combimeltas, then get assaulted and de. Gone are they days of waking on and multiassaulting two vehicles and a deck chair. I'm pretty sure the only time I'll be fielding Scouts in the future is as allied Space Marine Scouts so I can bring Vulkan to twin link all my melta and master craft my Wolf Guard thunder hammers.

I for one don't really see the need to ally anyone to Space Wolves because they still have the tools to deal with just about anything that shows up...not too concerned about other ally combos either as a good Wolf List now can handle just about everything up to and including 180 Ork Boyz.

Very interesting thread thus far. I just started a SW army recently and all the info is much appreciated.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I for one don't really see the need to ally anyone to Space Wolves because they still have the tools to deal with just about anything that shows up...not too concerned about other ally combos either as a good Wolf List now can handle just about everything up to and including 180 Ork Boyz.

'cept possibly fliers. We'll see...

Just Dave wrote:

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I for one don't really see the need to ally anyone to Space Wolves because they still have the tools to deal with just about anything that shows up...not too concerned about other ally combos either as a good Wolf List now can handle just about everything up to and including 180 Ork Boyz.

'cept possibly fliers. We'll see...

I think the point of Allies is not to fill in gaps, but to add variety.

For example; I love the whole fluff about Harlequins, but I don’t want to build an Eldar army yet. Allies will allow me to build a small Eldar Force of around 500-750 points and just have fun with them without the expense of another army. Then later if I find I like them, I will increase the army to 2,000 points.
I can also pick up a new unit for my Grey Knights and a few tank for my Guard and not have to wait for two games to play them both, I could pull them out for the next game.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is an example of a Space Wolf List with a Harlequin Troop.

2k Space Wolf/Harlequin

Rune Priest, 190 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Runic Armour; Wolftooth Necklace; Bolt Pistol; Runic Weapon; Master of Runes; Murderous Hurricane, Tempest Wrath)
Long Fangs Pack, 195 pts (CCW x5; Heavy Bolter x1; Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x2)
o Long Fang Pack Leader (Plasma gun x1; Power Axe x1)

The Rune Priest and Long Fangs are going to be my center Fire Support. I have the Tempest Wrath to keep Skimmers and hopefully Flyers] at bay. With the changes to vehicles I think Murderous Hurricane is going to be more useful. Then again I may try the random powers.
I chose the mixed weapon Long Fang Pack to give me AAA, Anti-Infantry and Anti-Armor Ability. With the Split Fire from my Fire Control I can put the two Missile Launchers [and maybe the Heavy Bolter] on Anti-Air Duty, while the Las Cannons work on Vehicles. Until I have turned the battlefield into a parking lot of burring wreckage I will start with other stuff. Why the Plasma Gun on the Long Fang Pack Leader, just because; it will prove useful as light Anti-Armour and I wont be firing it all of the time, as for the Power Axe WYSIWYG.

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gun x2)
o Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Wolf Standard, Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist)
o Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gun x2)
o Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Wolf Standard, Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist)
o Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)

Once More my Core, I never leave home without them [most of the time]

Lone Wolf w/ Mark of the Wulfen, 85 pts (Armour; CCW; Storm Shield)
o 2x Fenrisian Wolf
Lone Wolf w/ Mark of the Wulfen, 85 pts (Armour; CCW; Storm Shield)
o 2x Fenrisian Wolf

This is Muzzle and Blitz, they are here because they are fun.

3x Land Speeders, 270 pts (Heavy Bolter; Typhoon Missile Launcher)

I have not decided if I am going to Squadron them or not. With my “Harlequin Jet Bikes” I might give them a try as a Squadron.

Space Wolves Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (IA), 255 pts ((IAAse, pg. 27); Extra Armor; Wolftooth Necklace; Dreadnought CCW with Storm Bolter; DCCW with Storm Bolter; Cyclone Missile Launcher; Automatic Shielding; Fleet; Night Sagas; Saga of the Forsaken One)

Why the “Imperial Armor” Dread, because this list is about Fluff and Fun. Chuck is an old School Contemptor Dreadnought form my Rouge Trader Days and he just looks cool.

Now For the Harlequin
Why Harlequin, why not. They will look cool from across the table and add a nice color to the grey and white of my Space Wolves. I love the Fluff, and the looks of the models. Now with the Jet Bikes this will give me great flankers [I am not talking about the Outflank Rule, just how I am planning on using them] to go along with the Land Speeders. The Harlequin Troop will I think be a good unit to distract my enemy from my Lone Wolves.
The other thing is that the whole Allies list is less than 500 points so they should not overpower or overshadow my Space Wolves

Eldar Allies [Painted as Harlequin]
Autarch [EL], 118 pts (Banshee Mask; Forceshield; Eldar Jetbike; Power Weapon; Shuriken Pistol; Death Spinner; TL Shuriken Catapults; Haywire Grenades; Plasma Grenades)

Guardian Jetbike Squadron [EL], 76 pts (Eldar Jetbike x3; Shuriken Cannon x1; TL Shuriken Catapults x2)

Harlequin Troupe [EL], 276 pts (CCW x4; Harlequins Kiss x3; Fusion Pistol x2; Shuriken Pistol x5; Hallucinogen Grenades)
o Troupe Master [EL] (Power Weapon; Shuriken Pistol; Hallucinogen Grenades)
o Death Jester [EL] (Shrieker Cannon; Hallucinogen Grenades)
o Shadowseer [EL] (Veil Of Tears ; Fleet; Flip Belts; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Holo-Suit; Harlequins Kiss; Shuriken Pistol; Hallucinogen Grenades)

FAQ is out.

T4(5), is always treated as T5, so it appears that many things became harder to ID (TWC, Plague Marines and bikers and a million other things).

Logan Grimnar can never strike at initiative (since his axe acts as an axe or a fist, both of which are I1). EDIT - Don't have a SW codex here... can he use his axe as a fist or a sword? Maybe he didn't get screwed in CC after all....

Wolf Guard pack leaders are treated as characters.

Joe Mama wrote:FAQ is out.

T4(5), is always treated as T5, so it appears that many things became harder to ID (TWC, Plague Marines and bikers and a million other things).

Logan Grimnar can never strike at initiative (since his axe acts as an axe or a fist, both of which are I1).

Wolf Guard pack leaders are treated as characters.

Logan is fine. His weapon is called Axe of Morkai. But in the description it specifically says it acts like a frost blade or power fist.

Wolf guard in termi armor leading units are going to be the norm. So much wounding abuse shinanigans possible as long as they are in front.


Arjac looks like a lot of fun now that he has to accept and issue challenges.
Wolf guard bikers/jump packers get a little boost with gaining impact hits.
Lukas can acutaly use his pelt of the doppleganger now without having to get his squad killed off. Actually he is a pretty decent duelest now.

No, actually T4(5) is treated as the 4 for ONLY INSTANT DEATH.

And thunderwolves are always T5, not T4(5).

I could see WGBLs with Runic Armor and a Claw being used as an assassin character and for relatively cheap.

JohnnoM wrote:No, actually T4(5) is treated as the 4 for ONLY INSTANT DEATH.

Is? Don't you mean was (as in was the case in 5th edition)? The current FAQs say to totally ignore the first Toughness number and to always use the bracketed one.

Frost Axes got nerfed bad. Why settle for +2S, AP2, I1 when you can get a Power Fist which doubles strength (often +4), AP2, I1 for usually the same points?

Runic Armour gets seriously buffed with most power weapons being nerfed to AP3.

Because frost axes cost less and still get +1 attack when combined with either a bolt pistol or other CCW. WG with frost axes have 3 attacks normally and 4 on a charge/counter charge.

Runic armor on WG leading grey hunters/blood claws looks really tempting to absorb all of those overwatch shots and quite a few of the cc wounds.

Look at the Codex. On WG, you can replace their CCW with a Frost Axe, Frost Blade or Power Fist for 20 points. You'll still get base 3A or 4A with Power Fist + Bolt Pistol.

Did they change that you cannot get the +1 bonus attack for P-fists? Because in 5th you didn't. That is actually really huge if true.

I always played that power fist + bolt pistol = bonus attack and nobody objected. Apparently I've been cheating and didn't realize it. I now see how frost axes will be useful in 6E.

Thank you wolf brother!

Thunderwolves may have lost the wound allocation shenanigans but they still remain incredibly tough to kill. More importantly cavalry now move 12 inches instead of six and do impact hits after successfully charging. Personally I think the extra speed and being able to close with the enemy more quickly is worth more to me than the wound allocation foolishness. Also of note is that although the rules for rending have not changed it has become significantly more valuable as any rolls of 6 to wound with rending still ignore armor (AP 2) while most power weapons have either become ineffective against 2+ saves (Power swords and most force weapons) or now strike at initiative 1 ( Power axes, forces axes etc)

On a side note the ability to give our already nasty wolf lords Warlord abilities combined with the new challenge rules could make for some incredible nastiness. The ability to provide army buffs at no extra cost while still being combat monsters is a mechanic I am very eager to explore.

While thundercav got a little better with the impact hits, I still think bricks of Wolf Guard terminators are going to be the real hammer unit in the army.

Realized that Scouts got nerfed now that units can't assault out of reserve. No more Behind Enemy Lines, meltagun a tank, then meltabomb another tank or tie up some infantry in the assault phase. I think that one change hurts them so much that they might not be even worth taking any more.

The new acute senses rules combined with their already incredibly reliable Behind enemy lines rule will make showing up where you want them to an almost certain thing. I think they will still have a place but we may need to rethink the tactics and loadouts we give them. I wouldn`t write them off just yet. You could have them show up on the sides and take pot shots on side and rear armor with a missile launcher or you could just have them light up the enemy with bolters. The melta gun is still a viable option as well I think.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:While thundercav got a little better with the impact hits, I still think bricks of Wolf Guard terminators are going to be the real hammer unit in the army.

i dont think so. TWC is still pretty good. Just yesterday I played a 1500pt game against a nids player. 2 TWC's armed with a CC wep and a SS managed to take out a unit of 15 shootygaunts, a tervigon and a Trygon Prime.

That seems like a statistical anomaly rather than a normal performance. Two TWC with 4 T5 wounds and a 3+ save should won't last long against the torrent of fire that 6th edition armies are going to bring to bear.

No, you will need more models than that I think, and even then you will want to book it towards the enemy as fast as you can. I would not take any less than three and even then I would probably have an attached wolf lord and a few extra wolves to soak up some fire.

I agree you'd need more than 2 to make a difference. However, its about strategic placements also. For example if there is a large piece of cover on the board, lets saya fortress of redemption, and your opponent deploys the majority of his units on one side, I would deploy the TWC on the other side. They could easily sweep around the back and reach the enemy within turn 2, without bearing the full front of fire. Even if they do, you could deploy a second unit on the other side of the piece of cover (directly opposite your opponent) and then they have two units to deal with.

So will SW players use Blood Claws now that units don't get bonus attacks for charging? Claws still get +2 due to their special rule, no?

I thought they still got the +1 attack on the charge so long as it isnt a multicharge?

I dont think I saw anyone mention that space wolves have the ability to rapid fire someone, overwatch on them if charged, followed by the counter attack

Arthas367 wrote:I dont think I saw anyone mention that space wolves have the ability to rapid fire someone, overwatch on them if charged, followed by the counter attack

And the Wolf Standard lets them reroll 1s on all their Overwatch fire if they so choose, or reroll 1s on charge distance and saves against Overwatch fire. Grey Hunters are the business.

Omegus wrote:So will SW players use Blood Claws now that units don't get bonus attacks for charging? Claws still get +2 due to their special rule, no?

It is a Special Rule for the Blood Claws, it Overides what ever is the BRB, they would probably loose it when Multi-Charging.

With the new rules for psychic powers I can see wolf tail talismans being a very wise investment on characters with them being only 5 pts a piece. Also anyone else think master of runes might actually be worth taking on a rune priest now?

Bjorn_Stormwolf02 wrote:With the new rules for psychic powers I can see wolf tail talismans being a very wise investment on characters with them being only 5 pts a piece. Also anyone else think master of runes might actually be worth taking on a rune priest now?

I have always felt the Masters of Runes were worth it in 1,500+ point List. This allows you to kick off Tempest Wrath, then followed by Living Lightning or Murderous Hurricane. I don’t think this is going to change in 6th.

I wonder if WTT stack with Deny the Witch. Also, master of runes is much more worth it now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, pretty awesome that runic staff negates still go off even though hood does not.

Awesome, utter BS, or a typical oversight. Pick two of three.

I'll go with awesome and typical oversite. But after looking at some of the gak that the Necrons can do, I'm not going to complain.

Also GH will do really well inspite of dueling. In most cases a duel will remove your squads heavy hitter for at least a turn. GH with the ability to take a power weapon and MOTW, means we still retain that special weapon punch as a squad even if our WG is off dueling somewhere.

The wolf banner was always sick for 10 points. Now it would be really sick if it cost 20 points. Awesome piece of wargear.

Question now is what you arm your WG with. The old stand-by of powerfists may not be as effective against challengers with power weapons who will drop you before you get to swing. Powermaul? Sword?

Omegus wrote:Question now is what you arm your WG with. The old stand-by of powerfists may not be as effective against challengers with power weapons who will drop you before you get to swing. Powermaul? Sword?

I'll probably stay with PF. If it is someone who can drop me before I can swing, I can always drop out of the combat and let the boys do the work.

pretre wrote:

Omegus wrote:Question now is what you arm your WG with. The old stand-by of powerfists may not be as effective against challengers with power weapons who will drop you before you get to swing. Powermaul? Sword?

I'll probably stay with PF. If it is someone who can drop me before I can swing, I can always drop out of the combat and let the boys do the work.

Agreed. The usual Space Wolf abilities will usually suffice. Otherwise, any other power weapons or MotW's can still go at it...

WG
Runic armor, P-fist, combi melta.

I still think the P-fist will be necessary, but if it really looks like he is going to die in a challenge, I wont miss his attacks all that much if I decline.

However, the runic armor will allow for all sorts of fun wound shinanigans - especially when combined with the wolf banner.

Wolf Guard can't take runic.

edit: Unless you're talking a Battle Leader.

A Wolf Guard with the Mark of the Wulfen would be very handy for challenges I think, maybe throwing too many eggs into one basket though.

My headhunting Wolf Guard are terminators with a storm shield and a wolf claw. Mark of the Wulfen is for rank and file Grey Hunters.

pretre wrote:Wolf Guard can't take runic.

edit: Unless you're talking a Battle Leader.

My bad, I'll be putting him in termi armor then, which may not work for everyone, but I use my guys in drop pods, so I only loose 1 guy.

Lukas the trickster in a unit of bloodclaws, challenge someone in CC, characters, MC, necron lords, fateweaver.

If they kill him, they have to roll higher than me on a d6, or all models in base contact die!

OOF!

yeppers. Whats that, your full wounds Swarmlord issues a challenge, I accept .

Well lets look at the big picture of what we are trying to do in 6th edition.

primary missions
1. similar to 5th with d3+ 2 objectives worth 3 victory points each.
2. the 5th ed kill points = victory points
3. d3 + 2 objectives worth 3 victory points each with heavy support (even vehicles) able to claim objectives but cough up a victory point when killed.
4. 6 objectives worth 4,3,3,2,2, and 1 victory points each but are turned up side down and laid out randomly and only revealed when the seize roll is made. Each fast attack (even vehicles) able to capture but also cough up victory points when killed.
5. the draw mission from 5th 2 objectives, 1 per player. each is worth 3 victory points.
6. The relic or 40k bloodbowl mission. The football can only move 6 inches.

Secondary missions worth 1 victory points each
1. Kill the warlord
2. first blood or get the first kill
3. get in the opponents deployment zone.

deployments
1. pitch battle in 5th or long table edges with 24 inches between each other
2. short table edges with 24 inches between each other
3. triangle deployment with 24 inches between each other.

With 5 objective missions and 3 of them having 4 or more it looks like you want to max out on troops and be mobile to get those objectives. Some Fast attack and heavy support choices probably should be taken for those missions where they can score.

HQ
Rune Priest is still good with good powers and runic weapon for negating psykers.

Wolf Lord is worth a try as a combat warlord with a thunderwolf unit or terminator unit.

Battle Leader is cheaper then a lord but has one less wound and less leadership could also be used as a combat warlord but is easier to kill with one of the missions being kill the warlord maybe the lord is worth the extra points.

Elites
Wolfguard with power fist and combi melta to join grey hunter packs are still good. Wolfguard terminators with cyclones to join the objective camping grey hunters may be worth taking with vehicles taking a hit from hull points. 2-4 Wolfguard with combi meltas either in a drop pod or rhino are worth considering since there will be more av14 things to kill with bastions and fortresses around that we might not want to use our grey hunters to attack with as many as 6 objectives.

Wolf scouts got hit with the nerf bat since they can't assault on the turn they arrive from reserves. Acute senses now makes them more likely to arrive where you want them. The value of 2 melta gun shots really depends on how many fortifications and back field vehicles we still see. Being unable to to assault something like a devastator squad, long fangs or lootas makes them not as good.

Troops
6 Units of Grey hunters seems like the choice here. 4 in rhinos to go get objectives and 2 either in Razorbacks or joined by Cyclone Terminators to camp your home objectives.

Bloodclaws are even worse with 6th being the shooty edition of 5+ cover, random charges and snap fire we don't want to be charging things with our troops unless they are more squishy then a marine thats what snapfire + counterattack is for. If the enemy is more squishy then a marine then blood claw extra attacks are not needed.

Fast attack seems like it might be worth taking some to have more scoring units for the 6 objective mission to make sure we get the more victory point objectives.
Speeders still don't seem worth taking as they can't contest anymore in most missions and are just a liability in the fast attack gives up a kill point.

Thunderwolves look like they deserve another look with beasts moving 12 and ignoring difficult terrain for movement plus fleet rerolling the charge distance and impact hits. Moving 12 is pretty big as they can keep up with the rhino cover wall no more rolling a 1 for your run roll and ignoring terrain for movement is nice. Also fairly resilient if joined by a 2+ save character who can also buy ablative wolves.

Transports
Razorbacks might not be worth taking as you might want to increase your squad size and with 3 hull points they might not last as well as gun platforms like the old las/plas seems decent still but costs 75 points has 3 hull points and now the plasma gun gets hot. At least its twin linked.

Rhinos are likely still worth taking to move your troops around with 5 objective mission unless you like walking the whole way.

Heavy Support
Long fangs are still great and the heavy support to take. Most Wolf lists take 3 units of heavy support missle long fangs for fire support. These are still good. I used to take Las cannon twin linked plasma gun razorbacks as long fangs transports in 5th edition for the dawn of war mission to position my long fangs optimally with 12 inch movement and a 2 inch disembark and run and provide additional fire support. Razorbacks for long fangs in 6th seem like a liability with mission 3 and heavy support units being victory points if killed.

Predator with las cannon sponsons is worth considering now because the AP2 las cannons get +1 on the damage table for killing vehicles but the long fangs can get more shots and have a frag mode.

Whirlwind is still bad they needed to get AA missles or some new reason to take it as they now have 3 hull point liability.

Fortifications
The Aegis Line gives you a good amount of potential cover but you can not hide a unit inside and its quad gun is more vulnerable being a toughness 7 2 wound emplacement that can be targeted vs having to shoot an av14 building. Quad gun vs las cannon really depends on if you see more av 10 dark eldar fliers or flying demons versus av12 vendettas/storm ravens.

The Bastion with Quad Gun or las cannon seems like the best choice below 2000 points. This gives you solid anti air with a quad gun and you can hide one long fang unit inside and fire from fire points with the pack leader operating the quad gun and put another long fang pack on the top ramparts for the 4+ cover or 2+ if you go to ground. The Bastion also protects your long fangs from assaults although the enemy can throw grenades at them.

Fortress of Redemption is huge and might not be allowed in tournaments but if it is it might be worth taking at 2000+ points or so. Gives you lots of 4+ cover ramparts to put your long fangs on or inside with fire points. The missle silo helps you deal with hordes a bit with a large blast weapon which have been traditionally a pain for wolves.

Allies ideas.
Dark Angels
Belial with 2 units of 5 thunder hammer storm shield terminators with cyclone and chainfist for objective holders.

Grey Knights
Coteaz + Purifiers with psy cannons in a rhino, Deathcults in a Rhino maybe a storm raven or psyrifleman dread
Grandmaster with rad and pychotroke grenades + death cults in a land raider

Imperial Guard
Company command with meltas in chimera for killing land raiders and bastions. Vendetta and maybe a Hydra for anti air.

Avariel I do quitely agree with the most of your message.

I will eventually add that Eldars (guided and Runed Farseer + 2 units of Pathfinders) or Necrons (nightfight + Overlord on CBB + 15 warrior in a croissant) could be very good allies.

As Fast attack units, point wisely, what do you'll suggest?
TWC are as alwais invitating, Skyclaws may eventually have a place.

Wouldn't be better consider some ultra-huge-fast moving eldar bikes or something similar? Raged BA bikers or DoA Jump Packers?

Besides, when you talk about the 6x troops selection from the SW codex, do you still mean MSU? Do you consider them still viable?

I can't see how it could be possibile to put in 4 Rhinoed 8x GH+WG units, 2x footslogging 10x GH+WG in TDA unti, a PA or TWC Wolf Lord well tooled, at least 2x Rune Priests, a couple of Bastions with Quad Cannons, the almost mandatory 3+ units of Long Fangs, eventually a unit of TWC as a body guard for the eventual TWC Lord or a unit of WG terminators, one suicide drop-pod unit of -melta WGs, one little allied regiment (like the Eldars that will hugely boost the anti-psychic defenses), etc in "just" 2000 pts.


May you give us an ideal list of what you're considering the must-have nowadays?

I already posted a couple of lists in the Army List section.

So just out of curiosity everyone seems to be talking about how Rapid Fire no longer restricts you from firing your full range if you move, if this is true can someone point me to the page it specifically states this as the visual chart they give looks the same. Also if this is the case does this mean Plasma guns are going to be much more viable than Meltas especially with the Hull Points addition?

Just wondering if I should swap out my Meltas on my Grey Hunters for Plasma guns.

mickeymacattack wrote:So just out of curiosity everyone seems to be talking about how Rapid Fire no longer restricts you from firing your full range if you move, if this is true can someone point me to the page it specifically states this as the visual chart they give looks the same. Also if this is the case does this mean Plasma guns are going to be much more viable than Meltas especially with the Hull Points addition?

Just wondering if I should swap out my Meltas on my Grey Hunters for Plasma guns.

Page 52-53. In 5E Rapid Fire weapons could fire one shot at full range if they didn't move (like Heavy weapons) or two shots at half range if they did. Under 6E rules, Rapid Fire weapons can shoot one shot at full range even if they did move. It's still two shots at half range and can't assault.


Regarding the Wolf Priest, he's equipped with a Crozius Arcanum, which is a power weapon with no other special rules. According to the rulebook, it would count as a power maul. Since the book says to look at the model to determine whether his weapon is a power axe, power sword, power maul or power staff, is anyone considering giving their Wolf Priest an axe or sword for the AP boost?

If your opponents let you use Forge World models, us Space Wolves players should get in on the Flyer action with a Stormeagle gunship without having to buy Allies. I think that's probably what I'm going to do.